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Oct. 7, 2014 - Project Camelot

01:57:37

PROJECT CAMELOT: KERRY INTERVIEWS JIMMY CHURCH

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	So this is Carrie Cassidy from Project Camelot and I'm here with Jimmy Church.
	And, wow, it's really early in the morning.
	Yes, it is.
	Here in L.A. for me.
	For us, night owls.
	Those types.
	So, Jimmy, thank you for waking up on time to do this today.
	Always a pleasure, Carrie.
	You know that.
	Okay.
	Well, thank you.
	So, you know, this is just very casual.
	You know, I was on your show.
	I've been on your show twice.
	And I just thought we have to return the favor.
	So, here we are.
	And I know it's the middle of the day.
	The reason this is not at night, guys, is because Jimmy's on the radio at night.
	So this was our only option.
	So we've got a chat going.
	You've got a chat going.
	So we can also take questions from the chat as we go or near the end, whatever works out.
	What I want to do is, first of all...
	Let's give you some background, because this is your interview, so I'm gonna ask you who you are and how you got into this sector.
	And I know some of these answers, and maybe some of your fans know these answers, but we could have new people on board who don't know who Jimmy Church even is, even though I think your word is getting out there very quickly.
	Well, yeah, it's kind of funny because I've done a lot of – and again, thank you for having me on the show.
	And let me say this to everybody.
	Carrie and I talk probably a few times a week.
	Very long, animated conversations on the phone, and we always stop ourselves in the middle of the conversation and wish that we could share those conversations with everybody.
	And so what we're doing now is what we do all week long, and so hopefully we'll capture some of that magic.
	I've done a lot of media over the last month or two, and I've had that same question.
	Jimmy, where did you come from?
	Because we have such an old, established community in ufology.
	I've always felt like I was a part of that community because I was always researching and involved and reading.
	For everybody else, I'm sort of new.
	And I get that.
	I understand.
	I stepped in for Art Bell about a year ago.
	It's been a year now that I've been in the chair.
	And I came from a sports background.
	But before...
	Or I don't even really need to mention that.
	But yes, I had a successful show.
	And sportscasting was always a passion.
	And sports are a passion.
	But it's not what I wanted to do.
	I was on with George Norrie, as you know, last week, and George asked me the same question.
	And he said, you know, how did you make that transformation from sports, you know, a successful sports show, to this?
	And I said, I came out of the closet.
	This is what I've always wanted to do.
	I came out of the closet.
	And now I'm happy.
	The best way to try to explain it is, here I did my show last night for three hours.
	I'm off the air last night.
	I wind down.
	What am I doing first thing this morning?
	I'm on with you, Kerry.
	And I'm happy.
	In a couple hours, I'm doing my show again.
	Tonight, we were just talking, I have Graham Hancock on the show.
	Who cannot be happier than enjoying that type of success?
	I have been welcomed, for the most part, with open arms into the UFO community, or paranormal, I should say, community.
	And I think that they, you, everybody else, they needed a breath of fresh air, another take, another look at it, and somebody that takes it very, very serious.
	And I think that has a lot to do with the success of the show, in that here comes a guy from a different background, and that's coming in, Kickstarting and re-kickstarting the paranormal, the fringe sciences, and taking it very, very serious.
	And I think that has a lot to do with it.
	All right.
	Well, that's true.
	Absolutely.
	Well, okay.
	But in terms of your background, like, you know, growing up and all of this, and I don't know, maybe you've been asked these things before, but I don't know this.
	Have you seen a UFO? Yes.
	Three.
	Okay.
	You want to talk about it?
	Yeah, and I have.
	I'll do it on the quick side.
	The first sighting I had was up in Monterey, and I was up there with some friends, and we were photographing ourselves at the edge of the ocean.
	We were on mountain bikes.
	And we stopped, and we were taking turns.
	There was four of us, and we were taking turns taking pictures of ourselves.
	So, you know, three, one taking the picture of three guys, right?
	And then we were rotating, so everybody would get in the shot.
	And it was my turn to take the picture, and one of the guys says, what is that?
	And he points up to the sky, and it was an old...
	You know, film camera.
	This is 1995, 1996.
	And I look up and there's a black triangle.
	But it was high, high, high.
	I'm guessing 50,000 feet.
	You know, way up in the clouds.
	But it was ripping across the sky.
	And I grabbed the camera.
	It was moving so fast.
	You know, a jet at that height moves very, very slow across the sky.
	This was hauling...
	But, I want to use another word.
	And so, I grab the camera and I take a shot.
	By the time I wound the camera, I go up and look again, and it was stationary, and then shot straight up into the clouds and disappeared into the atmosphere.
	That was about 5, 4 o'clock in the afternoon, bright sky.
	And about six months later, I was developing the film.
	I had a bunch of film.
	And I come across these pictures of clouds.
	I was like, what is this?
	And there was that black triangle.
	And I put a jeweler's loop on it.
	And it turned out it wasn't a black triangle.
	It was a black pyramid.
	Okay?
	Really?
	And it was like a square bottom.
	Just like a pyramid in Egypt.
	Square bottom.
	With a triangle top.
	Way up in the sky.
	Way, way, way high.
	So that was my first one.
	Let me just say, there is a military base right off Monterey.
	Yes, yes, yes.
	It could have been anything, but it was the way that it, well, it had no wings either.
	That was the weird thing.
	Very weird.
	Way back then.
	Cool.
	Yeah, how it was flying, I have no idea.
	But that was something that, and I'll be honest with you, Carrie, I didn't tell anybody about that for years.
	But let me ask you right there, because did you, were you like a UFO kind of person at that point?
	Yes.
	Or was this your first exposure?
	Oh, I was involved in Paranet.
	Paranet was on the net back, you know, at the very first start of...
	The Internet and UFO Mind and all of those early, early websites.
	Now, before that, yeah, I read Fowler's books and Communion and so forth.
	Now, if you want to back up before that, before my sightings...
	My mom was a crazy woman.
	And so I grew up...
	In the best, most endearing of terms, of crazy.
	She was awesome.
	And she was...
	This was in the 60s and early 70s.
	She was into Edgar Cayce.
	She was into ghostwriting.
	Her and...
	My Aunt Z, who just passed away last week, would sit around and Ouija board all night and drink coffee.
	I'm five years old watching this stuff.
	Okay, and where did you grow up?
	I was an army brat, so we did it all around the world.
	You know, every three years, new city, new country, new army base, that kind of thing.
	My dad was in the army band.
	He was in the army band.
	Okay.
	What did you play?
	Yep.
	He was band leader, actually.
	He was band master, so he was the guy conducting the orchestra.
	And you actually are a musician as well, right?
	Yes.
	Yep, yep, yep.
	You play guitar?
	Play guitar.
	Uh-huh.
	Yep.
	Okay, so now, so, okay, fast forward from here, and you're growing up, well, in various places.
	Is there any place that you spent, you know, more time than not when you were a kid?
	No, not really.
	Pretty much three years.
	You know, the standard military issue, every three years.
	But three years around the United States or around the world?
	Around the world.
	Germany, as well as Panama, South America, or Central America.
	I was there when I was older.
	I was there when I was in my teens in high school.
	And then back to the United States.
	So, okay, the rotation went like this.
	Chicago at Fort Sheridan.
	Indianapolis at Fort Ben Harrison.
	Kalamazoo when my dad went to music school at Western Michigan.
	Wurzburg, Frankfurt, and then back to the States again.
	We went back to Fort Harrison for a second tour.
	And then that was it.
	That was it for me.
	I stayed in Indianapolis until I came out to California.
	Okay.
	And you've been in California how long?
	Since 1983, 1994.
	So you're basically a local to...
	Yeah, now I'm from California.
	Yeah.
	All right, so now we're up to the second sighting.
	So then what happened?
	Second sighting was my wife and I, Rita, were here in the valley.
	We were coming off of Latuna Canyon Road off of the 210, which for everybody here, that's the east side of the valley coming from Pasadena into the valley.
	We're coming out of the mountains.
	We're coming down Latuna Canyon into the valley, and Rita turns to me and says, what is that?
	And I look, and our sunroof was open in the car, and I look to where she was looking.
	She's looking up, and right out of the windshield, pew, it was a white orb globe.
	I have no idea how big, but I'm going to say...
	20 meters, maybe, across 30 feet.
	And it landed, it came, it lasted for about a second, straight down and landed like in downtown Van Nuys.
	And I was expecting a huge explosion.
	Okay, that's what I thought.
	And nothing happened.
	I immediately, immediately called Wolf McCarron of MUFON and said, Wolf, Did you see that?
	No.
	Any reports?
	No.
	I said, note this right now.
	It's 1024.
	We just had a sighting, something strange.
	And we didn't know what it was.
	And the next day, well, I immediately went home and checked all the websites, KEVC, you know, all the local news channels, nothing.
	It didn't make sense to me how you could have three, four million people in the valley and something like that happened and nobody mentioned it.
	I followed the LA Times for about a week, and there was nothing there.
	And nobody reported anything on MUFON. I know what I saw.
	It was crazy.
	It didn't leave a light trail or anything.
	It was just a bright flash of a round...
	It was white, glowing orb, and it just streaked right to downtown Van Nuys.
	And I thought...
	What a trip.
	Yeah.
	And then...
	Okay, what year was that?
	Do you know?
	That would have been 2010.
	Oh, so not that long ago.
	No, no, very recent.
	Okay.
	And then about a year ago, I just spoke about this at a seminar.
	And the video is online.
	I was in the Honda parking lot of Honda over here in the valley, Gallup and Honda.
	I'm walking out of the building and I see, you know, five or six of the Helpful Honda blue shirt guys standing out in the middle of the parking lot there, a car salesman, looking at the sky.
	And as I'm walking out, another Honda salesman walked up to me and he goes, check out the UFO. And they were all looking and I turn and I look up to the sky and there was a spinning...
	I don't know what it was, really.
	It was a spinning way up high in the atmosphere, again, moving very slowly.
	I don't know if it was a satellite being positioned by the NSA, could have been, because it acted really strange.
	It moved slowly across the sky, standing in my position up to the clouds.
	It moved about three inches in 15 minutes.
	And it was like going against the wind.
	Very high.
	So very slow.
	Very slow.
	Yeah, very slow.
	And it was spinning.
	You can see every couple of seconds the sun reflect off of it.
	So it was spinning.
	And then it stopped and stood there.
	And then it stopped spinning.
	And stood there and then slowly raised up and then disappeared into the atmosphere.
	Again, that was about 5 o'clock in the afternoon.
	If it was a satellite beam position, very spooky.
	I didn't know that they could do it like that.
	That's pretty creepy.
	If it was...
	It was definitely UFOs.
	We had no idea.
	The funny thing was about that, Gary, was the one thing that I ask every guest that's on my show, would you take a picture?
	You take a picture, you get video, and the response is always, no, I didn't think about it.
	Well, look, here we had five or six salesmen that all have cell phones, right?
	Of course, they're sales guys, and all have video.
	So do I. I've got my phone, none of this videotape.
	We were in awe.
	I cannot believe, looking back at that, I had a 15 or 20 minute opportunity to take out my phone and videotape and I didn't.
	Okay, very interesting.
	And when was this?
	Last year.
	Last year, yeah.
	Okay, so you weren't Jimmy Church yet, right?
	Sorry, just kidding.
	But you know what I mean.
	Yeah, it was right before the show.
	Okay, okay.
	So now maybe you'll have your wits about you no matter what happens, right?
	You know, again, I'll say it.
	I totally understand.
	Clyde Lewis was just up in Tacoma filming a documentary.
	He's up there with a film crew.
	And he's doing a documentary on Maury Island.
	And after he's done, he came on my show and told me the story.
	It's just hysterical.
	It's exactly what we're talking about.
	So that morning, they have a cabin, and they're drinking coffee early in the morning.
	He's got three, four, five friends in the living room.
	And right next to the cabin, Bigfoot walks by.
	Oh, come on.
	Listen, listen, listen.
	A naked teen wolf is how we described it.
	It looked like Michael J. Fox in Teen Wolf.
	No clothes, obviously, naked, fur covered, but a white face, but long hair.
	And walked right by, and he yells, there's Bigfoot!
	And they jump up, they run out of the cabin door, and baby Bigfoot darts off and runs into the woods behind the cabin.
	And they gave chase.
	They never found it.
	But they all had cameras.
	He's up there filming a documentary.
	Didn't snap a shot, didn't do anything in the panic and everything that happened.
	You know, it's just, you're in the moment.
	I get it.
	I really do.
	When somebody says I didn't take a picture, it's nice to have one, but it's rare.
	You know, you remember Carrie and I, Carrie spoke the other day at...
	And she pulls me up on stage.
	And one of the things that I asked the audience when we were talking about Malibu was the sightings that were going on out there.
	And what happened?
	The lady in the front row, remember, stood up.
	I have a video of a craft over the Malibu base.
	We just took it a couple of days ago.
	It's an amazing video, by the way.
	That's rare.
	That's the exception to the rule.
	It just doesn't happen.
	I'm so thankful that her kids who shot the video, it wasn't even her, shot the video that they had their wits about them to go and grab a shot.
	You're so caught up in the moment.
	Look, if you're watching a bank robbery go down, you're going to watch the bank robbery.
	You're not going to think about taking out your cell phone.
	Well, I mean, yeah, but there is every once in a while nowadays, actually, because everyone does have a cell phone.
	People are starting to capture those moments.
	And I have to say, you know, I guess I'm an exception.
	I actually, I shot a video of a UFO off of Malibu, off the coast.
	And that's on my short film for people that have seen it.
	It's on my website under the old, it's in the old part.
	So you have to go to interviews and scroll down to the old site, all part of the site, and it says short film.
	That's the first film I ever shot.
	I had my camera with me.
	I pulled up at nighttime on the coast of Malibu, right near the fish place.
	I don't know if you know that fish place right on the coast.
	Sunset and PCH? Yeah.
	I mean, no, it's further.
	It's actually called The Fish Place.
	Oh, The Fish Place.
	Oh, of course.
	Yeah.
	And it's actually pretty good fish.
	Free advertisement here.
	But across the street, you know, is the beach.
	So I was just actually, I don't know what I was doing.
	It was there.
	I think I was walking my dog at night.
	And it started to get dark.
	Actually, it was kind of pretty dark at that point.
	Yeah.
	And I don't know, I saw a flash of something, and what I think that first part is, is actually a Vandenberg missile or something like that.
	Not sure that part's a UFO. It goes sort of in a swirling and it goes straight up.
	But I saw the flash of light going, and that was going towards point doom.
	So I immediately grabbed my camera.
	And I took that, and then I also, I don't know what made me do this.
	I turned completely in the opposite direction, looking at a complete, you know, going from looking north to looking south with my camera and started shooting the sky.
	I'm not sure why.
	Even now, I'm puzzled as to why.
	What I got at that point was extraordinary, and that is on the short film.
	What they seem to have been doing, and there's no doubt whatsoever it had to be a UFO, they were drawing, like making pictures, and they actually, somehow they made what looks like a dragon to me.
	I know it sounds crazy, but you can look at the shots.
	They're stills, but they're on the video.
	So, you know, it's an interview.
	It's one of the first things I ever did in Camelot, where I interview Rich Dolan and Jim Mars and put a camera in front of their face and basically say, have you ever seen a UFO? Right, right, right.
	I'm going to turn the interview back on to you.
	You said that's the first time you've ever shot anything and you were lucky that you had your camera, right?
	Okay, hold on.
	Well, okay.
	Let's back up.
	Have you ever seen any other videos?
	Yes, absolutely.
	And did you photograph those?
	But, yeah, I mean, no, that's fair enough.
	But, you know, at a certain point, you know, because...
	Well, I have to remember how many years this was.
	This might have been a little before, because I actually shot the stills maybe before I was actually Camelot.
	And I did, because back then, I have to say, I did a stupid thing.
	I called MUFON and told him, right?
	And that's what you did, right?
	But nowadays, if I see a UFO, there's no way I call MUFON. Now...
	Sorry about that, guys.
	But, you know, look, this place is run by the CIA. I know this.
	I even know this for a fact.
	I mean, I just, you know, whatever.
	So, you know, why should I tell those guys something they already know?
	Sorry.
	I think Jan is calling me right now.
	Okay.
	Yeah, so now let's get this back on track here with you.
	So, okay, so you've seen, this was three UFOs, and that's it?
	That's all you remember, right?
	Yeah, I mean, and each one of them was unique, and each one of them I feel strange about.
	I mean, the one up in Monterey, could it have been some crazy satellite anti-gravity thing that was ours?
	Yeah, it could have been.
	But looking at it, being shaped like a pyramid just kind of freaked me out.
	I showed it to...
	My landlord at the time, I was living in Sherman Oaks, and he knocked on my door to change air conditioning filters or something.
	At the moment that I had the jeweler's loop on the picture, I just got him back from the photo place.
	So he comes in, an older Armenian guy named Victor, and I said, check this out.
	And he looks at it, what these beasts!
	He used some very colorful language.
	And it's shocking to see something like that up in the clouds where it should just fall out of the sky.
	It doesn't make any sense.
	So what that was, I really don't know.
	All I know is what its characteristics were, which were strange, to stop and float.
	When it was ripping across the sky, I'm guessing Mach 10, Mach 20...
	Some crazy speed.
	Stop and then shoot straight up into the atmosphere?
	Very strange.
	The globe that we saw that landed and crashed in downtown Van Nuys, again, I can't make any sense out of that.
	It would be different for me if it exploded because meteor, okay, I get that.
	Or it had a smoke trail or some kind of vapor trail off of it.
	It didn't have that either.
	As a matter of fact, it looked like it didn't have a light trail to it.
	It was like a...
	Like a dot, a white dot, a large one.
	And it didn't make any sense.
	And how it didn't get seen by anybody else.
	When I know what I saw, I would never stop and go, am I crazy?
	No, it wasn't a sighting like that.
	It wasn't a ghost or something where it could be part of your imagination or somebody else speaking to you from the other side.
	No, this was a globe flying through the sky in the valley.
	Very strange.
	The other one, the satellite, I call it the satellite.
	I can't really explain that one away either.
	I know that they position satellites, but if they position satellites in broad daylight, I would think that we would see those all the time.
	Yeah, but that's kind of low.
	That's pretty low for a satellite.
	Yeah, yeah.
	To be visible, sure.
	And it was, like I said, that object was controlled.
	That was under intelligent control.
	To see it stop spinning and then just eventually ascend out and then disappear, yeah, that was pretty creepy.
	Okay, but let me ask you, because, you know, you are an intuitive, as I know, Jimmy.
	Yeah.
	And I don't know, because you say your mom was kind of wacko, whatever you want to call that, but in a good way.
	So you were already aware of sort of the other side of things, the unseen world, so to speak.
	So did you ever have abduction scenarios in your youth?
	No, I had one as an adult, oddly enough.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Well...
	Okay.
	Let's not call it abduction yet.
	I did have a very strange...
	How about contact?
	Yeah.
	I had a very strange sleep paralysis episode with something in my room.
	And this happened, I was living alone in Sherman Oaks.
	Oddly enough, across the street from coast to coast.
	If you know that area, you know where Premiere broadcasts from.
	So right there, I had a condo on Dickens.
	And I always slept in the dark.
	After this evening, I slept with the lights on until today.
	I still do.
	So this is what happened.
	I woke up.
	I was sleeping on my back.
	And my bedroom was your conventional bachelor pad in that room.
	Bed, two nightstands, at the foot of my bed, TV, stereo, and then two speakers on speaker stands that were about 12 feet apart.
	The one speaker stand was in the corner of the bedroom with a speaker on the top of it.
	And the speaker stand, three feet tall, right?
	Four feet tall.
	Okay, so that's the setup.
	I'm on my back, and I wake up, my eyes pop open, and my chest is pounding.
	And I'm freaking out.
	I don't know if I'm having a heart attack or what, but my adrenaline is rushing through my body.
	And I went to move, and I couldn't.
	Couldn't move.
	All I could move was my eyeballs.
	Now, my head was propped up a little bit on the pillow, and I'm trying to look around the room in the dark.
	Semi-dark, you know, it wasn't pitch black, but trying to look around the room, and I felt somebody in the room with me.
	And I couldn't move and I couldn't see.
	And I started to go into more of a panic.
	Hyperventilating.
	I'm freaking out.
	I can't move.
	I can't move my head.
	I can only move my eyes.
	And I tried to look down to the foot of the bed where I felt somebody standing there.
	And I could see in the corner of the room, next to the speaker, somebody standing there.
	And like behind the speaker, maybe trying to hide, I'm still not sure, but definitely standing over in the corner of the room, looking at me.
	And that just, now I go into full panic mode.
	And this goes on.
	Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait.
	Can you describe that so-called person?
	Was it like a short being, like a gray type thing or what?
	You know, that's the vibe that I got.
	I couldn't move my eyes.
	Imagine yourself lying flat on your back and you can't move and you're trying to look at your feet.
	Okay?
	It's impossible to do.
	But I was trying to move the best that I could to see this thing.
	Now, it was a little bit taller than my speakers.
	I could see his head.
	It looked like it was a larger head than should be on the body.
	The body looked a little thin, but it was also all dark and shadowy.
	So I couldn't really make out any real details.
	But I could definitely tell that it was...
	I was waiting for this thing to speak to me.
	I don't know if I was being robbed.
	I don't know.
	I didn't know what was going on.
	But there was definitely somebody there.
	And this lasted for about 15 minutes.
	And finally, something released off of me.
	And I couldn't move.
	And I immediately...
	I didn't look to see what was in the corner of the room.
	I flipped over and turned on my lamp that was on the nightstand.
	And I turned and looked.
	And nobody was there.
	And I jumped up out of bed.
	I turned on every light in the house.
	And it took me hours to calm down.
	Hours!
	Hours!
	And I never slept with the lights off after that or the TV. I slept to this day.
	I have something on.
	I cannot deal with sleeping in the dark.
	Okay.
	Now, what year was that?
	97, 98.
	Okay.
	All right.
	Well, yeah, so that's interesting.
	But you don't recall anything as a child?
	As a child, no.
	In that, not specifically something like that.
	What happened to me a lot as a child...
	Was deja vu at a very young age.
	And it was something that I was cognizant of and very aware of at a very young age.
	It would happen to me all the time.
	Couldn't explain it.
	My mom, when I would talk to her about things like that, ah, that's deja vu, whatever.
	My mom was hip to that.
	But deja vu was something that happened to me, and still does to this day.
	But when I was 5, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 years old, it was something that I expected, nearly on a daily basis.
	And deja vu was strange.
	And another thing that would happen to me at a very young age, doesn't happen at all, probably stopped when I was 8 or 9 years old.
	While I was sleeping, my body would go through...
	The best way I can explain it is like an electric shock.
	It would be this thing that would...
	And I would feel it throughout my whole body.
	And I would wake up.
	And it would happen when I was sleeping.
	And it would also happen on...
	And I figured this out at a very young age.
	On Sunday morning.
	Sunday mornings.
	I would be up with my brothers and sisters watching television.
	There were no cartoons on Sunday mornings.
	You know, it was boring TV. Cool TV happened on Saturday mornings.
	I get my vibe.
	So I would be up eight o'clock on a Sunday morning and with my brothers and sisters goofing around eating cereal and it would happen on Sundays.
	And then it stopped.
	And I never could explain that away.
	And it doesn't happen as an adult.
	And it would last for five or ten seconds.
	Interesting.
	Yeah, it was very strange.
	And it would seem like it would be the onset of some crazy deja vu.
	Not as an adult.
	It doesn't hit me as an adult, but I've heard similar stories from other people and researchers over the years.
	I can't make the connection as an adult, but it certainly happened often when I was a kid.
	Okay.
	Very interesting.
	All right.
	Well, thank you for that.
	And I'm sure that people, you know, some people will have maybe heard some of those stories, but I think they'll find it valuable because people kind of want to know where you're coming from, even as a talk show host.
	And since you're relatively new, at least to the circuit in the sense of being well known, you know, it's cool for people to hear.
	So, okay.
	Now, you have your father.
	Are your parents alive now?
	Yes, yes, yes, yes.
	So your father was definitely military, although he was in the band, right?
	Yeah, never shot a gun.
	Not that I know of.
	No, he's a musician.
	Okay.
	So let's talk about this, you know, fade to black because you basically came on board.
	I don't know how they select you.
	I mean, how did art select you?
	Did you apply for this thing or did you get picked out of a hat or what happened?
	Yeah, we kind of found each other.
	I was getting a little fed up, not only with the sports scene, but I think myself, I wasn't happy.
	So, about three months before Art left the air, we decided to change our format.
	The old show was called The Revolution.
	The sports show.
	And we're going to call the new show Jimmy Church Against the World.
	Okay?
	And I was going to take on all comers.
	Anything.
	Fringe science, ufology, paranormal, NWO, Luminati.
	Bring it.
	I am going to challenge the orthodox out there.
	The orthodoxy.
	And I was going to bring it full steam.
	And that was it.
	And I was, like I said, I was a bit angry at how mass media, which I was part of, was treating things that I knew, I knew, I felt not only in my bones, but with the evidence out there, that something is going on on all levels,
	whether it is Iraq and Afghanistan and the military or ufology and UFOs and sightings and ETs and Area 51 and paranormal research and lost civilizations and Egypt and Peru and just things were just making me very, very angry.
	And I wanted to get it out there full tilt.
	There were other programs going on, but I'm not going to name names.
	I won't do it.
	Some of them are friends.
	But that fell short and it really was starting to piss me off.
	So I thought, if I'm going to do this, if we're going to make the change, then I'm not going to hold back.
	I'm going to bring on all of the people that I respect.
	And I'm going to find out.
	I'm going to find out really what's going on.
	I'm going to bring on the people that I don't respect.
	And I'm going to find out what's going on.
	And that's it.
	And I'm not going to hold back.
	And that's the frustration that's out there.
	Not only...
	And Carrie, you've been doing this for a long time.
	And you know how much I respect you.
	Okay?
	And so the pat on the back is over.
	But you know exactly what I'm talking about here.
	And it is so frustrating to whether you believe something or not.
	That's not even the point.
	The point is, what is the truth?
	You may not even want to believe the truth.
	So it's not about your belief, it's about what you're being told.
	And the opportunity to come on, I learned it in sports.
	I learned that I could, not only with Sandusky, which we're not going to go into, but the way that the mass media treats things, and they're forced into treating subjects.
	And when I say treats, I'm talking about treatment.
	The way that they treat things is wrong.
	And what you are getting is filter.
	Is it 50% of the truth?
	You know, today, looking back as an adult, I'm Close to saying 0% of the truth.
	You know, 5%.
	And that's a scary thought.
	So when I have a guest on my show, it's a platform not only for the guest, but for myself to get to the bottom line unfiltered.
	A lot of shows say that, oh, we ask the questions nobody else will ask.
	You know what?
	No, you don't.
	You think you do.
	You don't.
	And I don't care if it's something on cable or something on the internet.
	Okay?
	I know when I listen to stuff, I'm only getting half.
	And that's why this show, part of the success of the show is everybody knows that when they come and listen to Jimmy Church and the guests, and the guests know this going in, that I'm not going to hold back.
	I'm not going to be rude.
	No, I'm not going to be mean.
	I'm not going to paint somebody into a corner.
	I'm not going to expose somebody.
	No, I'm not Howard Stern.
	I don't care about being a shock jock.
	I care about learning things.
	And if I can sit and have a conversation with somebody, just like you and I talk on the phone every single day, when we talk, to get back to the audience what I'm trying to get out of the guests.
	If I can just do that in an unfiltered way so the audience knows there's no editing, there's no censoring, and I'm asking the questions that the audience has always wanted to ask that guest.
	And if I can pull that off, I've succeeded.
	And that's it.
	Okay, but now let's get back to the question because I still want to know how you found Art Bell found you.
	And you say when he was about to go off the air.
	What do you mean?
	Because he was about to go off the air several times.
	And the latest of Moray, we know, was on Sirius, which was very short-lived and has resulted, as far as I know, in a lawsuit that's kept him off the air.
	So, when are we talking about and how did the logistics happen?
	Yeah, sorry.
	You know, I hate it when guests do that.
	No, I'm glad.
	No, it's all good because you just said some really important things and people got a real look at who you are.
	But, you know, just to get back to this part of the question.
	Just answer the question, Church.
	This is what happened.
	I, like everybody else, one day I'm surfing, Art Bell's coming back on the air today.
	What?
	You know, and I click, and I'm listening, and I'm like, you've got to be kidding.
	Art's back.
	This is great.
	Wow.
	Oh, I'm whole again.
	But I was also in a really, oh, crap moment, because we were gearing up to launch my new show.
	And I thought, no, I don't want to compete against art.
	No!
	Everybody else that I can compete against, that's easy.
	That's easy fodder.
	That's going to be easy.
	But I can't go up against art.
	This was bumming me out.
	And we decided not to change our plans.
	We were still going to go for it.
	And then three months later, well, no, it was October, November, a month and a half, six weeks, art leaves the air.
	And now, you never really want to achieve something from somebody else's unsuccess.
	You know, that's not cool.
	But, I gave it like two days.
	Ha ha ha!
	I wanted to make sure he was really off in the air.
	And as morose as that may sound, I wasn't going to go and contact Art and Keith while his body was still warm.
	That's not right.
	I just wanted to make sure that...
	Everything was going down like we thought it was, that he was indeed leaving the air.
	And then when Coast to Coast had taken over Art's slot on Sirius, like two days later, I was like, holy crap, this is real.
	Okay, this is not a bridge that can be mended.
	Art is off of the air.
	So I wrote Keith.
	I immediately contacted Keith, and Keith called me that day.
	And I said, look, You've never heard of me, but, okay, I've got a show.
	We were going to launch it anyway.
	Here's my website.
	This is my sports stuff.
	Go look at all of this.
	Go look at the videos.
	Go look at how I treat this.
	And go look at all of the past episodes and see who I am.
	And I promise you that the way that I treat sports is how I will be approaching the paranormal.
	Now, you can either...
	Join up with me, or you're going to go against me.
	Because we're going to launch this anyway.
	And he said, he listened, and literally, I think it was either that afternoon or the next morning, they called me back and said, are you ready to go on the air on Thursday?
	And that was like on Wednesday.
	And I said, yeah, let's do it.
	And that's how it happened.
	Wow.
	But did you have a conversation with Art?
	Everyone wants to know that, you know?
	Everybody wants to know.
	All that's private.
	All that's private.
	Can you just say you had a conversation with the guy?
	I mean, you can say that, right?
	Look, I know.
	I'm going to say it.
	I know for a fact you've talked to Art Bell.
	I mean, that's pretty cool.
	Isn't it cool in itself?
	Come on, was that the first time you ever talked to him?
	Uh, Carrie, I've never spoken to Art Bell.
	Never.
	Let's just, look, all of that stuff, the way I respect Keith and Art and their model and how they are approaching things.
	Keith and Art want silence.
	And that's what they want.
	Now, Art will be back on the air July 15th.
	I think that's the date.
	That's the date that he can go back on the air.
	I'll save that.
	Now, I have asked Art many times via email.
	To come on my show.
	And I used to do it once a week.
	It was just like, hey Art, here's the email this week.
	Are you coming on the air?
	He loves the show.
	I know that.
	I can say that.
	Does he listen to the show?
	Sure he does.
	This is his network.
	He and Keith's network.
	And we are gearing up and building the audience and everything and getting ready.
	There's a lot of technical things that need to be in place.
	When Art comes on the air and comes back, Art has agreed to let me keep my time slot, which is 7 to 10, and he will be on after me going directly against Coast to Coast.
	And all of those communications, the stuff that I'm telling you is the stuff that I'm allowed to say.
	Other stuff, I mean, it's not my network.
	I'm just the anchor show on the network.
	That's it.
	And I'm privileged to have that.
	But other than that, I have nothing to do with programming.
	I have nothing to do with decisions or anything.
	Well, no, let's drill down just a little bit here.
	Okay, so Coast to Coast and your show are all owned by...
	Well, I don't know if they're all owned by Premiere, but they're all owned by Clear Channel.
	Not my show.
	How does that work?
	I own everything.
	Well, Rita.
	And so that's that.
	Just like any other radio program or television show, you have a production company that owns that show and it is picked up by a network.
	So that is the situation with...
	Dark Matter Radio and Jimmy Church Radio.
	We are two separate entities.
	Anything that goes on on my show is my decision.
	Well, our decision.
	Rita and myself.
	We discuss with the producers here and we do stuff, but very little is done by committee.
	It's all me.
	Okay, but you are working with Art Bell's network, or however you want to look at it, right?
	So it's got to be sort of a, I don't know, something has to be mutually agreed on.
	In theory, you probably signed a contract, right?
	And who pays you?
	They pay you, right?
	Or they buy the shows?
	What goes on?
	All that is private.
	I love you, Carrie.
	Everybody wants to know how this is funded and to do all of this.
	Obviously, there's money coming from someone.
	But it's not the CIA. It's not the government.
	It's not anything.
	We've kept everything private for a lot of reasons.
	The funding of the show, how I'm paid, how the show is paid, how the show succeeds and everything.
	Everything.
	All the web and there's a huge amount of money that is involved here.
	Yes, there is.
	It's obvious.
	It doesn't happen by itself.
	I work eight days a week, 24 hours a day.
	It gets funded from somewhere.
	But the best way to approach all of this is the funding is kept private.
	Therefore, nobody, not only listeners, but mass media or anything else, they can't go and speak to any funding sources or talk any smack.
	Also, Those funding sources allow me to speak freely.
	So I'm not influenced by, I'm not worried about where the money's coming from because I'm going to say the wrong thing.
	I'm going to interview the wrong person.
	I'm going to talk about the NSA. I'm going to talk about Obama.
	Okay, let's do a comparison then.
	Coast to coast, George Norrie.
	Yeah.
	Okay, now I happen to know who runs that show.
	And it is the CIA. And I'm sure that this is going to endear me.
	Didn't mean to make you choke on your coffee.
	And, you know, this is my back channel information, you know, what the hell, you know.
	So, okay, so somebody's funding their show, and it's, I guess, what is it, Premier Network, and you're on Premier Network.
	Is that right?
	Is this part of the Premier?
	No, no, no.
	Two separate situations.
	Premier, which is now called iHeartRadio.
	Clear Channel is now called iHeartRadio.
	They made the changes last week, the week before.
	Oh, wow.
	It's just one step away from Pure Heart Investments.
	That's a whole other world.
	Yeah, right, right, right.
	All right, fine.
	But that is completely separate.
	Obviously, I'm never going to appear on this.
	No, that is completely, completely separate.
	I don't know why...
	Everybody out there, and I get so much correspondence about this, that they think that everybody is involved in this together.
	Okay?
	Coast to Coast, Art Bell, Keith Rowland, Jimmy Church, Fade to Black, we're all in this together.
	No, we are not.
	But, I got an email from somebody the other day saying, That Premier Radio and Coast to Coast own Dark Matter Radio's website.
	And I said, really?
	Okay, I know nothing about it.
	Well, all you've got to do is search.
	You can search.
	And the owner of it, well, I don't know who owns Artbell.com.
	I don't know who owns darkmatterradio.net.
	I know who owns jimmychurchradio.com.
	And I know what my relationship is.
	I don't have any connections directly to them.
	Do they call me?
	Sure.
	Are George and I friends?
	Yes.
	Do we talk?
	Sure.
	Has he called into my show?
	Yes.
	Have I been on his show?
	Yes.
	Are there pictures of us together out there in public?
	Yes.
	There's no dark cabal on my side.
	If it's there, it's on their side.
	I really honestly know nothing about it.
	Fair enough.
	I have said many times to people inside of our organization...
	Dude, if I find out that this conversation gets to the other side, you know, I know where it came from.
	I need to be very aware of that.
	I don't need a phone call from the other side, whether it's, you know, not only Art or Keith or anybody over at Coast to Coast or George or the head of Premier and rumors have started or things are out there.
	I don't need that.
	I'm very aware of that.
	I'm very aware.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	Fair enough.
	Well, you know, I had to lay all that out there for people because they're curious.
	They ask.
	They ask.
	I get it.
	No, it's okay.
	No, I mean, you know, there is sort of a thing going on because in a sense, they're going to sort of...
	Let me say, try to own the airways in whichever way they can manage it.
	If your relationship is production company to network, that's a pretty cozy relationship, and that's something that they've got a vested interest in, which is seeing the success of your show.
	That helps you, so that's important.
	Look, I mean, you are a breath of fresh air.
	It's nice to talk to somebody who really knows their stuff like you.
	For me, it's nice to have a compatriot out there who basically kind of gets it.
	And that's hard and that's rare.
	And, you know, that's not to even...
	Well, I'm not bad-mouthing George Norrie either because I think George Norrie knows his stuff.
	George Norrie as an individual is a different matter...
	A different dark matter than the whole rest of the scenario.
	You know what I'm saying?
	In other words, I'm not having an issue with him personally.
	This is not personal.
	So we're just talking about companies and companies that own other companies and following that kind of rabbit hole back.
	And this is how media entities get managed.
	But in your case, I mean, obviously you've kind of demarcated your position, your sort of area, your territory, and at least for the time being, you're out there.
	And you're free to say and do, as you say...
	What you want, right?
	And to have on, as a guest, somebody that you prefer or you want to have on.
	You know, because this is the kind of thing that we're up against.
	We're up against, as you know, you don't have blinders on, the major media being bought and paid for, for all intents and purposes.
	We started the conversation, at least this part of it, talking about how they are not letting the truth out and that they're massaging the message.
	Yes, and this is one of the most important points that needs to be driven home.
	It's called hard facts.
	These are the facts of the situation.
	Coast to coast, not only coast to coast, but all radio, all AM radio, talk radio, has seen a very severe drop in numbers.
	Okay?
	Now, we all know about Art Bell's heyday, 25 million listeners a night.
	It's insane to think about the influence, that he could influence a tenth of the population every single night.
	He could have overthrown Washington, D.C. Okay, all right, tomorrow, everybody, let's meet on Pennsylvania Avenue.
	We're going to burn that house down.
	And it would have happened.
	Okay?
	It's not that kind of party anymore, Carrie.
	The decline in numbers, one of the AM 940 here in Los Angeles just switched formats.
	They're no longer news radio.
	It's ABC. They switch to sports.
	And their numbers went from being a million a week, which is significant, To 75,000 a week.
	Okay?
	My numbers are way higher than that per day.
	Okay?
	Now, Coast to Coast has gone through.
	You can look at all of these Arbitron numbers yourself.
	This is public stuff.
	They've gone from 25 million a night to weekdays with our 20 million a night, you know, pick a year, to 300,000 of them.
	So where the pie doesn't shrink, the pie doesn't grow, the pie is the same.
	The same audience is listening.
	They're just listening and getting their fix from other sources.
	Sure.
	Okay?
	And that's what's important here.
	So, why is Coast to Coast numbers going down?
	Or other shows like that.
	Why?
	It could be talk radio.
	It doesn't matter.
	They're listening to talk radio on the internet.
	They're listening to alternative news sources.
	They can go to Pandora.
	They can go to other sources now and get their fix, whether it's music, talk, or whatever.
	Sure.
	Now, this show, Coast to Coast knows.
	Or any other network knows.
	Their numbers are going down, but our numbers are going up.
	Okay, it's not that the pie is moving, you know, growing or shrinking.
	The audience size is the same.
	It's where are they getting the fix from.
	And they recognize that.
	You know, when I was on Coast to Coast the other night, George said, hey, hey, you want to take some calls?
	Yeah, let's take some calls.
	Guy comes on the air.
	Hey, Jimmy, man, love the show.
	When are you going to be back on Sirius?
	Do you think George wanted to hear that?
	Or, you know, we're talking about an internet show.
	We weren't supposed to be significant.
	The internet.
	Not only my show, but the internet in general.
	And now the influence of what's going on with the internet is extreme.
	Yes.
	Or, you know, and you've got to figure out a way to mesh the boat.
	Would a network approach us, you know, like Premier or Westwood One or CBS, Cumulus?
	Would they approach us?
	I will not.
	This conversation has come up a lot.
	I won't do it.
	What do you mean you won't do it?
	What won't you do?
	I'm not going to give up what we have built.
	On Fade to Black.
	You can go and look at so many different other...
	The reason why, the reason why, I cannot be controlled.
	And I know that when you and I are sitting in my studio, right, doing an interview, I don't have to worry about a station manager crashing through the door saying, you can't talk to Kerry about the NSA like this.
	The FCC is going to shut us down.
	You need to stop.
	Advertisers are going to start pulling their money.
	I don't have to worry about that.
	I have that freedom.
	And it will always be that.
	There's no way that I could be lassoed and silenced and filtered because I have fun every single night.
	I know that I can ask the questions that I want to ask and not have repercussions.
	And it's not about The threat of the big guy coming in, it's about my heart.
	I'm happy.
	After every show, I'm happy.
	I feel good.
	You know?
	I don't want to end...
	I would hate to end the show bummed out.
	Yeah.
	Absolutely.
	Because I was roped and lassoed and silenced.
	So I think that's very, very important.
	The internet now, today, it's a different kind of party.
	Streaming, like what you and I are doing right now.
	We're video streaming.
	We couldn't do this 10 years ago.
	Right.
	Okay?
	And not for an audience to have fun.
	An audience would grow bored at watching something skip and audio drop and it just didn't sound right.
	Now, we can do this right now.
	We are live around the world without restraint.
	I'm filtering my language, but I'm not filtering thought.
	Okay.
	All right.
	Fair enough.
	And that's great.
	And what I'm going to do is I'm going to allow for questions.
	Now, I'm looking at the time.
	So we've been going for a little over an hour, and you've got a show tonight.
	So I'm going to give you some leeway also as to when we close this down.
	Yeah.
	But, you know, I have more questions to ask you, obviously, more places to go.
	We want to talk a little bit, at least for a short while.
	I know that maybe you beat this, the horse, the underground base off of Malibu to death at this point.
	But there may be a few new developments that you can at least talk about.
	And I'd like to go down that road.
	Sure.
	There may be a few other places we can go as well.
	So if you're willing...
	Yeah, let's go.
	Let's go.
	Okay.
	Alright, but we want to watch the time, and we're going to stay under two hours here, so we definitely will end this thing around two o'clock, just so people have a ballpark.
	But basically, let's talk about the underground base, because when you came on, I was actually speaking at, we had a small seminar, myself and Sean David Morton, Conscious Life Expo does some seminar series every once in a while as a lead-up to their actual February event.
	So we had a seminar off of the Hilton in the normal place.
	And I had Jimmy as my special secret guest at the end of the show there.
	And you did mention a few updates on what was going on with the underground base.
	So let's go there.
	What's new?
	Let me back up.
	I want to say a few things about that.
	I'm talking about the Conscious Life seminar.
	I think for you and all of us, when I stepped up to the mic, And I turned to the audience, first off, to hear everybody's applause when you mentioned me, said a lot, because I'm not sure who listens to the show.
	But that whole room knew.
	And what I'm saying by that is, that's the importance of the internet and internet radio.
	People listen now.
	And to get that reaction out of everybody, you remember when I stepped up and I go, oh, you guys know who I am.
	That was the first thing I said.
	And for them to go, yeah, it was, I was like, okay, now I'm a little more comfortable, but that's the influence of the internet that I was just talking about.
	And that is very important.
	And the second thing that I did, and this was an eye-opener, not only for me, but I think for you too, when I said to the room, okay, who knows about the Malibu Deep Underwater Bays?
	Everything Every hand in that room shot up.
	Every one.
	Now, that is, it's shocking.
	Years ago, it would have taken so long for things to get, you know, feet and to get momentum and to get the word out.
	It's not the case anymore.
	And so for everybody to know exactly what I was about to speak about, spoke volumes.
	Not only about who is attending the Conscious Life Expo, who your friends are, and so forth.
	People are aware.
	And it's just, it's great.
	It makes it easy for me.
	Now, as far as the updates go, the updates are...
	Our general, in that we will be putting together a DVD and doing the underwater stuff here very soon, and we are working on that, and we are very, very close.
	The logistics of such an adventure are not, we're not going up into the mountains with video cameras to shoot UFOs in the sky.
	We have to have a large boat, we have to have A crew that handles the underwater stuff.
	We have to have a documentary crew.
	We have to have a boat captain.
	All of these logistics have to be put into play before we do that.
	It's not easy.
	The money side of it, that's okay.
	That is taken care of.
	But it's just the logistics of getting it all together.
	Right place at the right time.
	So, that being said, what I can talk about Originally, the way that the mass media dealt with this, part of it was my mistake.
	I announced a bunch of research that, at that time, we thought was accurate.
	Everything that we presented originally about the depth and the size and the distance was all from government websites and Google Earth.
	Okay?
	Now, you have to deem most of that as accurate because it's our Earth.
	We're not talking about a solar system.
	We're talking about Malibu, California.
	So, the original depth that we had on it was about 2,000 feet, which makes things logistically very difficult to get to.
	You can't die to it, first off.
	You can't just jump off the boat and swim to it.
	You can't do that.
	Also, the submarines and submersibles that get to that depth are rare.
	They're out there, but they're rare and they're expensive.
	So we were up against all of that.
	But the original analysis that we presented to everybody also said that it was too deep to be man-made.
	In other words, during the last Ice Age, it was still underwater.
	And that was the first thing that John Anthony West said.
	He said, Jimmy, it was underwater 10,000 years ago.
	That's what I want to know.
	Well...
	Which makes sense.
	And so it got poo-pooed by the mainstream media.
	Huffington posted their article, and it's too deep, and everybody wanted to shoot it down.
	Well, about two weeks after ABC News did their thing on it, and Huffington posted their article, We've got a bunch of new analysis and topography studies, which now show the base at 150 feet under the water.
	And that is very, very, very important.
	Why?
	Previous ocean levels, last ice age, clearly puts this base above water, possibly even on dry land.
	Now we've got a different situation here.
	And had we presented stuff to the mass media back then like that, John Anthony West would have come to a different conclusion.
	He's a friend of mine, I'm not saying any.
	I'm the one that gave him the data.
	Okay, so that's my fault.
	This data that was presented when I spoke to the NSGS and other government organizations was wrong.
	It was incorrect data.
	Now this base, whatever it is, was clearly above sea level 10,000 years ago.
	Who was here 10,000 years ago, 50,000 years ago?
	I don't know.
	I don't know.
	But could this be a parking lot for USOs?
	Absolutely.
	Could it be a parking lot for Navy submarines?
	Absolutely.
	Could it allow access inland?
	Absolutely.
	There have been rumors about this for so long now that to finally have something that could be exactly this is exciting.
	I think that The fact that it was above sea level 10,000, 12,000 years ago and beyond is very, very important.
	And that is a game changer.
	Okay.
	Actually, while you're talking, I was just looking for some photos here, and I just got them up on the screen for the people.
	I don't know if there's anyone who's not heard about this, but, you know, whatever.
	It's now on the screen, so people can actually see what's been on Google Maps.
	Now, there was, as we talked about at that small conference, Basically, there has been some Google Maps covered it up or some part of it, and then you have to drill down and remove the water or something like that.
	You want to explain that?
	Yeah.
	For everybody that goes out to the coordinates, there is a little box that you check, remove water.
	And that's what you want to do.
	And that'll get rid of the clouding that is intentionally put in front, right in front of the base.
	It's kind of funny.
	But if you have the right version of Google Earth, you'll see that checkbox there.
	I get, excuse me, I get email every single day, dude, they clouded over the base.
	I knew it.
	Well, yeah, just click on the box and that will remove the water and then you can see it.
	Okay, very good.
	So as far as, now you did see, you said you were out there photographing in a helicopter or something and there was a boat.
	Yep.
	Right over the area of the base.
	Doing something.
	Yeah, right over the entrance of the base.
	Now, the base itself is two and a half miles by one and a half miles on the top.
	That's very, very, very large.
	When you're on the open ocean, a mile in one direction or a mile in the other direction is, you know, it's...
	It's a lot of distance.
	And so when we flew out with our video cameras over the base, we had in our GPS inside the cockpit, the entrance of the base was our waypoint.
	That's where we were flying to.
	And so as we are approaching the base, at that point we were actually flying over the base.
	Like I said, it's two and a half miles by one and a half miles.
	And we're approaching the waypoint, and I could see that on the GPS. And I knew we were getting ready to fly right over the entrance.
	In other words, right in between the two pillars, right?
	And that's when the pilot said, Jimmy, what is that?
	I'm like, what?
	What is that right there?
	And I looked down at the GPS. We're now right over the X. And I look out the window.
	And there's a dive boat right underneath our plane.
	And as far as you know, it wasn't owned by James Cameron.
	We contacted Cameron, and he said that his submarine has now been pilfered for parts.
	So we circled this boat.
	You know, I say both.
	I'm going to guess from our altitude, I'm going to say it was about 100 foot.
	You know, it was significant, a ship, if you will.
	It looked like it was a catamaran, just a massive ocean research vessel.
	That's what it looked like to me.
	And so we circled it and we could see on one side of the boat that there were a couple of divers off to the side of the boat and people were assisting them.
	And you could see that there was a crowd on that side of the boat and they were doing something.
	We circled it for about 15 minutes.
	I'm sure that we freaked them out pretty good.
	Well, that must have been fun.
	But at any rate, I have had somebody say that there's a limit to how deep you can go when you dive.
	Yes.
	And that perhaps this might be too deep.
	Is that possible?
	Well, dive as a diver, like in a wetsuit, you're limited to 100 feet, you know, extreme certifications.
	I don't know the exact specifics on this.
	I'm not an expert.
	But 150 feet is about max.
	I mean, that's like depth.
	Okay, compression and everything.
	Okay, so this is deeper than that, isn't it?
	Well, the top of the base is about 150 feet down.
	So, could a diver dive and get to the top of this platform?
	Yes.
	Could a dive, those divers that I'm talking about, or what they were doing out there, I don't know if that was a government vessel.
	I don't know if they had ROVs in the water.
	I don't know if they were dropping video cameras down there.
	I don't, I really, I don't know.
	I tried to read numbers on the boat.
	I zoomed in.
	The video was inconclusive.
	You really can't see anything.
	Again, we weren't on a helicopter.
	We were in an airplane.
	So we're always moving forward.
	And it's not like we could stay steady and getting close.
	We couldn't do it.
	Well, actually, I was referencing the idea that if you're going out there, are you taking divers?
	And if you're taking divers, are they planning to, you know, take cameras underwater and go down and dive down?
	Yeah, we're using ROVs, Remote Operated Vehicles.
	Oh, okay.
	And those will have cameras on them.
	And how deep can they go?
	They can go 3,500 feet.
	Okay.
	So they could actually, they could drive inside.
	Well, they'll be on cables, but the short answer is yes, but I don't want to give away too much here.
	I don't want the other side to know what we're up to.
	Okay, no problem.
	Well, I think that that's good for people because they're going to be envisioning this, and that's a pretty exciting event.
	Can you see my coffee cup?
	Can you see what it says?
	Question everything.
	Oh God, that's what I love to say.
	Okay, very cool.
	It's pretty badass, isn't it?
	Yeah, excellent.
	Alright, so in terms of what's going on, Jimmy, is there anything else that, you know, this is your, you know, normally you're on with somebody and it's there, sort of there on stage, right?
	And you're the sort of, you know, the host, whatever.
	That's fine.
	We're on stage too when we're hosts.
	But this is, the focus is on you.
	The spotlight is on you.
	So, what do you want to talk about?
	What's on your mind lately?
	How do you look at the world?
	Do you have a big issue with something you want to talk about?
	Something that hasn't been noticed?
	Something that you think is a really hot topic?
	Yeah, you know, right now, I feel...
	I feel like the media and the government and the world in general is in flux.
	There's something going on right now.
	I had on LA last night, Marzulli on the show, and he's really, he's like the end of times profit guy right now.
	You know, we're right here, man.
	I got my bags packed and it's going down any day.
	And although I'm not quite there yet, But do I have a bug-out pack and water stored in the house?
	I just might.
	Do I have ammunition?
	I'm not going there.
	But things are kind of trippy right now.
	And so I had said the other day on the air, is today any different than the way the tension we felt on the morning of 9-11 or the day after 9-11?
	That was a pretty crazy time, wasn't it?
	Okay, pretty crazy.
	We're looking at the world, oh man, we have Saddam Hussein, we've got Al-Qaeda, New York is falling down, and planes are crashing around the United States, and then the Pentagon, and is LA next?
	That was a pretty trying time for all of us.
	But if you back up a few years behind that, Were things just crazy?
	It seems like we could point to any day, go back all the way to Vietnam.
	Go back to Vietnam.
	Those were crazy times.
	You know, the world was changing right in front of us.
	We had the black-white racism thing that we were coming out of and segregation out of the 60s with Vietnam going down and And, you know, going into the 70s, those were trying times too.
	Was the world as crazy as it is today?
	Well, I would venture to say that, you know, when we had Reagan in office, love that guy to death, you know, love him to death, but he was a crazy dude.
	We never knew if he was going to flip the switch and start banging missiles at China and Russia at the drop of a hat.
	We're in the middle of the Cold War.
	So we always had that tension above us.
	And so with today, looking at not only ISIS and Iraq and North Korea, But MH17 and MH370 and some of those crazy situations and Sandy Hook and is that real or not?
	And is the media lying to us right now, right now, about something?
	It seems like they're doing it all day long.
	Now, we throw Ebola into the mix.
	And we've gone through this news cycle over the last, let's go back six months, let's go back to MH370, okay, when that plane disappeared.
	We've gone through these really weird news cycles.
	Throw in Ferguson.
	All these really seminal events have been going on, overlapping the previous news of the previous day, which was some earth-shattering, catastrophic news.
	MH370 was a big deal.
	It just disappeared, and they still haven't found.
	We managed to find the Titanic, but we can't find, you know, in 20,000 feet of water, but we can't find a plane with electronic surveillance and GPS all over it, but it just falls out of the sky.
	We can't track it with radar.
	When it flew through one of the most craziest war zones, you know, Vietnam and everything else, where You know Pakistan and India and Australia and Malaysia all have radar to spot a bird flying across the border so they can shoot it out of the sky, but they can't follow an airplane.
	So following that news cycle to today, I would say that we're in a very strange situation.
	And mass media today, if we've ever had proof Proof as citizens that we're being lied to.
	Let's look at the last six months.
	Let's look at this.
	Was MH370 treated correctly by the media and are we being told the truth by our own governments?
	Absolutely not.
	100% fabricated BS has been pushed down our throats.
	Okay, okay, but let's stop everything right here, because, you know, people are, I don't know, for people that don't know you, look, you know 9-11 is an inside job.
	This is a given, all right?
	So am I talking to somebody who knows 9-11 is an inside job, or are you one of those people who has no idea, or, you know, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here?
	Right, right, right.
	Well, Sandy Hook and 9-11 are two different situations.
	So whether there was a conspiracy behind Sandy Hook, I think the proof to that for somebody that is going to prove that Sandy Hook was a hoax, then that level of evidence, that's a pretty high bar.
	Okay, you have more to digest and prove in that.
	9-11 is a whole different situation.
	9-11 is something that if you go down the street today and start polling people, I think that most people think that 9-11 was a conspiracy.
	Yes, I do.
	In 2001, when that went down in 2001, we all assumed it was a couple of terrorists and planes crashed into the buildings, and we've got to go fight al-Qaeda.
	We've got to go to Afghanistan.
	We've got to go fight these guys.
	Well, that's what we believe.
	The conspiracy theorists, Spare Change and Alex Jones and everything else that was behind starting to spread that message, they are no longer the crazy people.
	Now, that's the establishment.
	So that's a pretty scary situation that we have to deal with with 9-11.
	Well, yeah, your government is out to get you.
	I mean, that's synonymous with your government is out to get you.
	Yeah, yeah.
	And so today, I think that that is the accepted norm.
	Now, what do I believe about 9-11?
	This is what I believe.
	And what I believe is scarier than what you believe, Carrie.
	And I think that you go for it, wait, wait, okay?
	Alright?
	This is what I believe the government knew about.
	And that's all you have to, that's all you had, right there, the conversation friggin' stops.
	Because if they knew, that is bad.
	That is bad.
	What else happened?
	It doesn't, none of that matters.
	That's what I believe.
	Well, they planned it.
	Well, not new.
	They planned it in Sandia Labs.
	Wait, wait, wait.
	Carrie, Carrie, that's not what I'm saying.
	What are you saying?
	Whatever goes beyond that doesn't matter.
	If they knew...
	That's all we need to know.
	That's it.
	That's it.
	It's the end of the story.
	Sure.
	That's it.
	That's it.
	Was it Sandia?
	Was it nuclear bombs?
	Was it holograms?
	Was it this?
	Was it Trinket?
	Was it MKUltra?
	None of that matters.
	None of it.
	None of it.
	The fact is that they knew.
	And that's it.
	And what the truth is beyond that, Everybody, all theories are on the table, and we need to take a look at all of them.
	I don't know if it was holograms.
	I don't know if it was missiles.
	I don't know if it was MKUltra.
	I don't know if it was nuclear bombs that brought down the building.
	I don't know.
	You know, we have one person that theorizes one thing.
	We have another one that theorizes.
	All of them couldn't be true.
	We didn't have nuclear bombs and holograms.
	And plan demolitions.
	But hold on.
	Carrie, Carrie.
	None of that matters.
	All that matters is that they knew.
	They knew what was coming, and they didn't tell us.
	And that right there is the criminal offense.
	What, what, who and what and why and Cheney and Rumsfeld and whoever else and Halliburton and whoever else was behind it and the big money and the military and industry to go and make a bunch of money in Iraq and Afghanistan and rebuild those countries after we bomb them into the Stone Age.
	You know, is that the agenda?
	I don't know.
	I really, I don't.
	But I do know that they knew.
	And I know that They lied when they went up in front of the United Nations and waved those little mini bottles of anthrax around, you know, and plutonium, and here's letters, and all of that turned out to be a lie, and that's a fact.
	That is not conjecture.
	That is not me theorizing.
	That's a fact.
	Those were phony letters generated by the CIA, presented to Great Britain, so they could have evidence of anthrax and nuclear industries and stuff, so we could go in and bomb Iraq.
	Okay, well, it also, I mean, that's all good.
	Okay, so Sandy Hook, you basically haven't gotten yourself up to date on Sandy Hook.
	Oh, I'm fully up to date on Sandy Hook.
	So that's been proven to be a hoax.
	No.
	You don't think so?
	I think that those guys that present their case, without naming names, that the defense's case doesn't hold water.
	Sandy Hook is a bit different of a situation.
	What I don't want to do with Sandy Hook, what I don't want to do with Sandy Hook, Take a stance that, A, the evidence is not solid enough, where I go public with it, and then I have some family come to me and say, you know, my daughter was shot that morning in Sandy Hook by Adam Lanza.
	I don't want to be party to that.
	And I'm a father.
	And I do not want that until...
	Until there's something that is beyond a reasonable doubt with Sandy Hooks.
	One thing.
	I don't care about dates on websites and things are wrong and they were before.
	I can backdate anything on the web.
	I can backdate it.
	I do it every day.
	I can backdate it.
	I can go in and change dates.
	So don't tell me.
	Don't base it on that.
	Don't base it on ammunition that was there and didn't match or they couldn't.
	No, no, no, no, no, no.
	I don't want to hear about crisis action.
	I'm just going to veterans today.
	We have time here to talk about this kind of stuff.
	The bottom line here is no murders in Newtown in 2012.
	That's a headline here in veterans today.
	You know about veterans today, right?
	Yep.
	Okay.
	And so basically we've got Jim Fetzer, who's got a fair number of degrees here, talking about all of this.
	And it goes into detail about what goes on.
	The bottom line is, you know, the information is out there.
	Whether you want to take it on board, whether you want to, you know, still feel that there's some open, you know, some missing data.
	There are some anomalous things that are part of Sandy Hook.
	I know that, for example, Mike Harris reported at one point, closer to the date when it was actually happening, that his information was that the Mossad was in there and that they were shooting people.
	So something happened there.
	Somebody got shot.
	Something happened.
	We don't know what.
	It didn't appear to all be a hoax, at least every freaking thing.
	Now, as far as the kids and the whole, you know, Adam Lanza, or if that's his name, I forget.
	Yeah.
	You know, the Patsy, I mean, the bottom line is there was a crackdown on that boy and that family.
	They're a real family.
	They exist.
	Right.
	So whether or not that guy is still in jail, whether he's up for, you know, trial or actually, I guess he got killed.
	I can't remember.
	Who, Adam Lanza?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	No, he shot himself.
	Oh, right.
	Okay.
	Well, supposedly shot himself.
	I mean, we don't know.
	Look, the guy could be sitting on an island somewhere in the South Pacific.
	He certainly could.
	There's no question about it.
	I mean, come on.
	Look, could...
	Could and would the government lie to us?
	Yes.
	Did they lie to us about Sandy Hook?
	Well...
	I'm not so sure.
	Let me just say this.
	What about Flight 370 and then Flight MH17? You know, have you gone down that rabbit hole?
	I'm fully investigated.
	Fully investigated.
	And I don't want to...
	Let me make something perfectly clear about Sandy Hook.
	Sure.
	Okay?
	Right now.
	The...
	Everything, not everything, but most, about 90% of everything that's been presented as evidence in this is about the panic of the day.
	Oh, they said the principal was alive.
	Oh, the principal was dead.
	Oh, there was seven people involved and they only captured one and this guy escaped and listened to the police radio stuff and I've listened to all of it, Kerry.
	All of it, all of it, all of it.
	All of that, all of it is in the panic of The day.
	A small town like that with a police department running around.
	They've got an elementary school that's been shot up with 26 people dead.
	They don't know.
	They don't know.
	They didn't know anything that day.
	So you just can't say, oh, there was seven people involved because they said that they were looking.
	They should have been looking for 20 people, okay, because it turned out to be one.
	Okay, but we found that out the next day.
	But that doesn't mean it was a hoax.
	It doesn't mean...
	Well, no, no, no.
	Actually, you have to go...
	Maybe you haven't heard about the witness that talks about...
	Basically, the town is like a ghost town right now.
	These people have left town.
	I do, too.
	So, in the end, we've got people who maybe signed a non-disclosure agreement, are no longer coming forward.
	Maybe they're in the witness protection plan.
	Who the hell knows?
	I mean, there are so many scenarios that you can go down for any one of these incidents.
	I mean, that's not Aurora, Colorado.
	I mean, we're basically...
	Now, to get more up to date, we're talking about also MH17, Which is the more recent debacle, which seems to also have ties to possibly at least a virus that was being targeted.
	I don't know if you listen to my Simon Parks interview, but he basically comes out and says, no, you know, and he, look, he's supposed to be a politician for what it's worth, a British politician, you know, and he's coming out and saying that basically what happened with MH17, that and he's coming out and saying that basically what happened with MH17, that it was targeted to hit It was supposed to be their 9-11.
	It was done by the Mossad.
	There's, you know, there's a lot of different aspects to that of Of course, MH370 having been flown to Diego Garcia, this is what the evidence points at.
	And from there, we don't know.
	Possibly used again in the false flag MH17, we don't know.
	And there's a lot of evidence.
	Jim Stone is an excellent ex-NSA whistleblower.
	I don't know if you've talked to him.
	I have, and his website is stellar, and I've got a lot of information from Jim Stone.
	MH17 and MH370, there's too many things that are glaring in both of those cases that just stinks.
	It smells rancid.
	It just does.
	First off, I'm a very logical guy.
	What are the odds of two out of twelve planes out of the Malaysian Airlines falling out of the sky?
	What are the odds of that?
	I have no idea, but I'm sure that I would win the state lottery way before that should have ever happened.
	So that right there I have issues with.
	The second thing about MH17, and not only with Jim Stone's excellent research that he has done with the windows and the paint and And so forth.
	I totally commend them.
	Awesome website.
	Jim, if you're listening, great job.
	But anyway, with MH17, the morning that that happened, it happened at like 9.30 a.m.
	If my numbers are off, it doesn't matter.
	Shoot me.
	But let's just say it like this.
	At 9.30 a.m., the plane gets shot out of the sky.
	At 9.32am, it's reported on CNN. How in the heck?
	Right?
	And not only that, but CNN and BBC and Fox and ABC and MSNBC and Yahoo, everybody, AP, Reuters, all had the same information.
	It was a Russian missile.
	It was this type of missile.
	It was shot from this spot of the border.
	It was on this and that.
	They knew in advance that They had the script ready to go out of Washington, D.C., and it was fed across to the mass media.
	That was planned.
	Everybody knew that was going down, and they already had the excuse.
	They had the backstory.
	They had everything ready to present.
	So, yeah, ME-17, look, if something like that was presented to me with Sandy Hook, Look, if one of those kids right now surface, hey, I'm alive, then we've got a whole other thing that we need to...
	Okay, then we take another look at Sandy Hook.
	But Sandy Hook right now, everything that is out there, to me in my own mind, everything that has been presented, I myself, with my tiny doofus head, I can explain away.
	I can't.
	I don't need to go...
	It's just logic.
	Just go, oh, come on, come on, come on, come on.
	Stop, stop.
	Okay?
	It's a different situation with 9-11.
	It's a different situation with MH370, MH17. It's a whole other situation with Ebola.
	All of these things...
	Well, is it really?
	I mean, you know, let's talk about...
	We don't have a lot of time here, but just to go over that whole Ebola thing.
	Well, it's a different situation.
	Is it really?
	I mean, in the end...
	No, we're being lied to.
	We're being lied to.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	I mean, you know, what we're really looking at here...
	It's a scenario of lies.
	It doesn't matter if...
	Well, if their mouth is moving, they're lying, in essence.
	You know, I'm sorry.
	And especially if it's mainstream, right?
	So that's where you draw the line.
	Now, alternative, maybe they're lying.
	But I can guarantee you that mainstream is lying.
	Now, I got something for you.
	I don't know if you heard about this.
	James Cameron...
	James Cameron just made a speech at one of these, I forget, I don't know if it's Davos or which economic forum it was.
	It just happened a few days ago.
	This was news.
	James Cameron, I mean, we're talking about like this guy is basically a Nazi.
	He's on a podium saying that people like us, now that's why I asked you, do you believe 9-11?
	Is an inside job.
	Basically, he said, if you believe 9-11 is an inside job, you should be locked up.
	Okay?
	So he was basically talking about what are they going to do in Britain to lock down these crazies out there who believe in conspiracies that happen to be conspiracy facts, in my opinion.
	So this guy, he's running a whole country.
	Yeah.
	It's the bastion of the Illuminati, and the guy is literally saying that the next thing he has to do, not only does he want to take the passports from the British people that are trying to come back home because he reserves the right to take your passport away, but now what he wants to do, he wants to shut up any dissenting voice that's saying that government is lying.
	And basically lock them up.
	So this is what we've got.
	A major politician running Britain.
	This is what he's saying.
	So this is where it's at.
	You know, God knows, you know, Obama talking about ISIS. I've got a whistleblower.
	With proof of the money trail funding ISIS and funding Al-Qaeda.
	We've been funding ISIS from day one.
	There's no question about that.
	It's spun out of control.
	Sure, absolutely.
	We want to fund our enemies.
	Why?
	Because to keep this game going, this little game of war.
	If you don't have an enemy, you can't send your troops in, right?
	Well, if you don't have an enemy, there's no reason for government.
	So that's the truth.
	You have to look at the big picture across the board.
	Let me give you a couple of examples.
	And I'm sure I'm going to inflame people.
	But if you're getting angry at me, that's because you don't know and you just learned something.
	That's the only reason why you're angry.
	Let me give you a couple of examples.
	The government itself, the need for the government, the need for us to have the government so we can pave our streets and have schools.
	That's basically what we need the government for.
	But the government, the money side, and the corporations on the other side, the bigger the government, the bigger the corporations, the bigger the wars, the bigger of needs, and so forth.
	Let me give you an example.
	Immigration on our borders.
	Why have we not clamped it down?
	Obviously, we could stop it.
	Now, I'm not saying our country was based on immigration.
	My family is a family of immigrants.
	That's not what I'm saying.
	What I'm saying is, if there's a problem at the border, then shut it down.
	We have the capabilities of doing that.
	Why do we not do it?
	The more immigrants that come over means we need to have more government institutions in place to control them.
	We need to have larger border patrols.
	We need to have social places in place.
	We need to have jails and internment camps.
	We need to have all of that.
	That's one element of what I'm talking about.
	So, when we look at Iraq and Afghanistan and Libya and everything else that we're funding over in Africa and everything in Somalia and everything that we're doing over there, if we're not doing it, our government is smaller.
	The money pie is smaller.
	We're building less helicopters.
	We're building less guns.
	We're making less ammunition.
	Halliburton is smaller or non-existent.
	Blackwater is a non-existent thing.
	So the bigger the government, the more that the lies are told.
	Ebola.
	Ebola is a perfect example.
	Big farm comes into play.
	What is it funded by?
	It's funded by the government.
	It's funded by our tax dollars.
	That's it.
	And you can see it all playing out right in front of it.
	Carrie, the best thing that anyone, any one of our listeners can do when they listen to mass media is you listen to the story, you read the headline, pick your website, flip it over 180 degrees and look at its underbelly.
	Then you find the truth.
	At least you'll be closer to the truth.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	And that's what you do.
	That's what you do.
	I don't care what it's about.
	Yeah.
	A movie review comes in, oh, this movie sucks.
	Absolutely.
	Well, you know what?
	That movie was great then.
	Yeah.
	Actually, that's what I do.
	I look to see when they attack a movie, what they're really attacking.
	And basically I figure it's probably the best movie.
	I tell you, I just saw the worst movie that got like the best ratings last weekend.
	I mean, you know, this Gone Girl.
	It was trash.
	That thing is frickin' trash.
	Now, I'm sorry, you know, for the actors, because obviously they wanted to make some money, they, you know, want to appear in a movie, whatever.
	Bad taste.
	The script is incredibly bad taste.
	And really, it's just a bloodbath for, you know, Satanists and vampirism.
	But aside from that...
	Oh, that sounds cool.
	All right, all right, you want to go there?
	No, no, no, you're absolutely right.
	You're talking about the new Ben Affleck film?
	Yeah.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Alright, so what I'm saying, okay, now just to get back to this situation, because look, we haven't mentioned it, but let's bring it in here.
	The secret space program, because you've seen at least three vehicles, two of which sound very logical to be one of ours, so to speak.
	You're a psychic intuitive.
	Do you think the, you know, are you aware of the Secret Space Program?
	Are you on base with this?
	Are you asking your guests about this?
	And are you following the money trail?
	As you know, I had Peter Labenda on this week.
	Phoenix risen from the ashes, Peter Labenda was on.
	And I asked Peter...
	And an amazing show, by the way.
	And everybody listening, if you really want to go see something pretty cool, go check out the Peter LaVenda interview that we did because Peter hasn't spoken public in a couple of years.
	And we all thought he was missing.
	And it was funny.
	I didn't tell you this, Kerry.
	He sent me an email right before the show.
	And he goes, man, have you read this yet?
	And it was your link.
	Peter's alive!
	But anyway, go check that out.
	Now, I asked Peter to define the secret space program because, to me, there's three definitions of what we're talking about here.
	Okay?
	The secret space program that Peter refers to is what von Braun and the Nazis were up to from 1947 up to Apollo and how they...
	The Nazis infiltrated and we did that, a paperclip and all of that, but also sabotaged the program and made sure that the Russians were ahead of us until they got roped in and told, look, you're going to really be in a bad spot if you don't get us on the moon by 1969.
	Okay, so they got back on board.
	Remember, we had all of the best scientists and somehow they get Sputnik into space before us in 1958 and 59.
	They were clearly beating us on all fronts, and it was because the secret space program was being sabotaged.
	Okay, so that's his definition.
	Okay, so that's one definition.
	The other secret space program definition It's the one that you're referring to now and that we can talk about.
	So that there's two different things.
	If somebody wants to go listen to Peter Lavenda's presentation on the Secret Space Program, it's not going to be about what you and I are about to talk about.
	Okay?
	All right.
	Are we clear?
	Well, we're not in complete agreement because as far as I'm concerned, he's just talking about the beginnings of the Secret Space Program.
	So it's not like it's a different subject.
	It's the same subject.
	It's just earlier in history, but whatever.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Well, no, no, no, Kerry.
	I don't want to be at odds, but I just want to be very clear.
	When he's referring to the secret space program, it's about the sabotage that was done secretly.
	That was the program that the Nazis were up to and shutting down and not allowing progress to happen between 1947 and 1960.
	That's what his presentation is about.
	The secret space program today that we're talking about, does it exist?
	Absolutely, 100% it does.
	Does the Air Force have a space shuttle that they're flying?
	Yeah, we know this.
	What is it doing up there?
	Well, you know, it's doing something very, it's doing bad things.
	Have we been to Mars?
	I believe that we have.
	Do we have a base on Mars?
	I believe that we do.
	That's the secret space program that we're in.
	I mean, you know, just for edification, I mean, it is interesting because...
	I have had Peter Lavenda on my show years ago.
	I did a radio show with him.
	Good guy.
	I've read his books.
	Very cool guy.
	Wonderful investigative reporter, really, for all intents and purposes.
	And really going down the Jimi Hendrix, just for people that don't know who he is, going down what is in essence the Illuminati infiltration and what has gone on and how the 60s were infiltrated and managed by the think tanks, Rand, Tavistock, going down what is in essence the Illuminati infiltration and what has gone Also the Manson murders, the trail of the octopus, so to speak, that goes down those levels.
	So he's very much aware of the occult.
	He's also very much aware of the occult.
	Basically, you know, the sort of more pragmatic, earth-based, looking for a clue and finding it here right in front of your eyes, and an excellent writer as well.
	So he's drawing his information from that kind of place.
	Peter LaVenda sleeps with one eye open, trust me.
	He's been to places that you and I, you know what I mean?
	Yeah.
	Well, I'm not so sure about myself, but I'll take it.
	But okay, fair enough.
	But to get on with the subject, really, okay, so that's good because people are going to want to know where you're coming from.
	Do you understand this?
	Are you following this story of what's really going on, you know?
	Did we go to the moon?
	Did we have help?
	What about ET? You've had visitors.
	You've seen craft.
	You know, having a sensibility of that means that you're willing to entertain information that comes from places that a lot of people will just put up a wall and say, no, I'm not listening.
	That's right.
	That's right.
	This is what needs to seriously be driven home.
	Us, society, people of Earth, we only know what we're told.
	You don't learn something without experience and somebody telling you something.
	And it always points back to the mass media, school books, teachers, the news.
	That's where we gather our information, most of it, every single day.
	And the mass media, when things stopped with Apollo for no reason.
	No reason.
	Just stop.
	That's it.
	It's done.
	We went.
	We're done.
	There's nothing there.
	No!
	No!
	Flip that story over.
	Flip it over.
	180 degrees.
	What's there?
	There's nothing on the moon.
	Yes, there is.
	Flip it over.
	180 degrees.
	Nothing on the moon?
	Yes, there is.
	Flip it over.
	The moon is not important.
	Flip it over.
	The moon is important.
	Mars.
	No life on Mars.
	There's life on Mars.
	Flip everything over 180 degrees.
	And that's what you have to understand when it comes to the media.
	All of the excuses for shutting down the Apollo program Back then, and more so today, made no sense.
	None.
	All of us were like, huh?
	I remember one of the statements that came out of Washington in 1974.
	The public is not interested in space anymore.
	Oh, right.
	Oh, really?
	Yeah, exactly.
	Who made that call, pal?
	Right?
	Yeah.
	Really?
	And what happened just shortly after that?
	What, Close Encounters of the Third Kind?
	Yes, yes, and every other great space movie that sells out for history.
	You know, so, yeah, all the books, all the fascination is about what's out there.
	The biggest question we have, the number one question going back 10,000 years, are we alone?
	We look up at the stars and wonder what is out there.
	We don't care about anything else.
	The only thing we want to know is are we alone?
	And as long as the media and as long as Washington, D.C. wants to poo-poo the subject and not talk about it, then that means there's something there.
	Their silence on it speaks volumes.
	The longer that they're quiet, Carrie, the more that we have something to say.
	That's it.
	As long as they want to be in denial, then that's it.
	Silence, it allows all of us, all of us, to write our own story.
	It allows us to do our own investigations.
	The only thing, I'm getting angry now.
	We should have been like this an hour and a half ago, because my blood is boiling.
	Is this.
	When we have to look to Carrie Cassidy's of the world, The Graham Hancocks of the world.
	The Richard Dolans of the world.
	You know, anybody that...
	Jimmy Church, who am I? You know, but we're the ones that are questioning everything you question.
	We're the ones.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	Yes, 150 years ago.
	200 years ago, when we're trying to read blood, and we're trying to figure out infections, and we're trying to figure out the universe, and we're trying to figure out what's on the other side of the ocean and the horizons, and we questioned everything.
	We didn't accept what we were told.
	The Vatican, we're the center of the universe.
	We're the only things here.
	The sun orbits around us.
	Right?
	Yeah.
	Okay?
	We questioned everything.
	And if it wasn't for everybody questioning, we wouldn't be where we are today.
	Now, suddenly, when we want to question everything, we're crazy.
	Oh, that guy's crazy.
	No.
	No.
	You know, that's the answer that we get.
	All the skeptics in Washington and the mass media, look at the way they treated the Malibu base.
	The Malibu base is right there.
	You know what?
	Let's go find out what it is.
	Don't laugh at it.
	Right.
	You know, when Area 51 was disclosed, Bob Lazar is a kooky guy.
	He's crazy.
	He's insane.
	Let's ruin him.
	You know, let's make him crazy.
	And everybody, well, it turned out that base really did exist.
	It's right there.
	You know, and without that, without people questioning things, the Michael Cremos of the world.
	You know, the Joseph P. Farrells of the world.
	We need these guys.
	And that's where we're getting our knowledge from these days.
	And we're smarter than that.
	We're growing up and we're starting to figure that out.
	Again, mass media, take it, whatever it is, flip it over, and you got the truth.
	And I'll leave you with that.
	Kerry, you are the best.
	Okay, alright.
	Thank you very much, Jimmy Church.
	Thank you for coming on the show.
	Wow, I've got...
	Let's see, what have I done here?
	I just made you huge on the screen.
	Okay, guys.
	I didn't see any questions offhand.
	I don't see any burning questions in the...
	You know, if you want to have any last-minute burning questions, now's the time.
	Jimmy has to go.
	He's got a show tonight.
	I hope I covered everything.
	I tried to keep my eye on the chat...
	I'm sure we could go on all night and all day.
	Jimmy, just basically talking about everything.
	It looks like...
	Mystery lights and water.
	I don't know what somebody's talking, mystery lights and water.
	I suppose you mean, are there any craft coming out of that area of the ocean?
	Look, that's one of the hottest sightings areas.
	Malibu, there's a guy who wrote a book.
	What's that guy's name, Jimmy, who wrote the book about the sightings in Malibu?
	Preston Dennett.
	Yeah.
	He wrote a whole book about what a hot spot that is.
	Always been a hot spot, just FYI. Any hot questions in your chat there?
	Any hot questions in your chat there?
	Hold on, hold on, hold on.
	I was just checking out the chat room.
	And I tried to post in the chat room, and I had to register, and then we went live, and I didn't get it done.
	But hi, everybody.
	The mystery lights in the water, I think what they are referring to was last month, Alaska, I think it was Japan Airlines, had photographed these bright orange, red, and yellow, and white, orbs in the water in the Pacific Ocean.
	Absolutely stunning photographs.
	We analyzed them.
	What we did find, it wasn't a volcano, because that would be too deep in the water and we wouldn't see that light from the surface, so that killed that.
	Some suspected it was schools of octopus that were glowing, but each one of these circles was the same size.
	So have we found out spheres, I should say, not circles, disk shape, if you will, too, as well, from the air?
	Have we figured out what they were?
	No.
	But they certainly lit up a vast amount of the Pacific Ocean.
	And so just stay abreast with us and stay on top of JimmyChurchRadio.com and the show.
	We have posted those photographs.
	They are insane.
	And we are continuing the analysis.
	They have not been debunked.
	Okay.
	Well, let me just say the earthquakes in Oklahoma, it looks like maybe they're just building an extension to their underground base.
	Same with the recent...
	Earthquakes in Colorado.
	Mammoth is another matter.
	I'm sure they're also trying to trigger the New Madrid fault, so you can keep an eye on that.
	Look, this is the stuff to consider when you get any kind of report of anything.
	So it's not only turning things on its head, but basically understanding that when you get a weather report, understanding that there are weather wars.
	We don't have any rain in California.
	We haven't had it for a long time.
	Look, somewhere else is getting rain.
	They're storing it up.
	They will fix this area, it's my theory, because there's a major aerospace, you know, funding comes from here and the bases are all here.
	So ultimately we will get rain.
	They will save this area over and over again because of that.
	You know, don't just look at surface earth.
	Look under the earth.
	What are they doing under the earth to cause what you see on top and the weather wars?
	Any additional last words from you, Jimmy Church?
	Thank you.
	Kerry, it's very important that you continue to wave the flag, to continue to march.
	We are all rolling this rock uphill every single day.
	We do this together.
	Our community, yours and mine, we speak to each other about this all the time.
	But what everybody needs to understand, we are a very small group of individuals.
	We talk about different shows.
	We can all talk smack, and we do.
	I think a lot of it is tongue-in-cheek.
	What we do all know is that we all know each other, and we all need each other.
	I'm talking about our little fringe scientific research community of not only whistleblowers, but of scientists and people that write and research.
	It's very important And all of us know each other.
	We could have a Skype call right now.
	You can go through your Skype contact list.
	I can go through mine.
	And we could have 50 people up here on this screen right now.
	We all know each other.
	And we all respect each other.
	And it's very important that we keep our foot on the gas, that we ignore the critics, the trolls, the pundits, the name callers and stuff.
	I choose to ignore all of it.
	I don't care.
	And that's it.
	And it's a very serious thing that we do.
	And we care about it.
	And the people that listen to us know.
	The people that don't listen to us are the ones that I'm speaking to right now.
	You know?
	If you know what I'm saying.
	Sure.
	It's very, very important.
	So, thank you much.
	Yeah, I've got a show to do.
	Everybody, if you want to come check me out tonight, we've got Graham Hancock live for three straight hours over at JimmyChurchRadio.com.
	Thank you for the opportunity, Carrie.
	When you're ready, come on down.
	All right.
	Excellent.
	All right.
	You take care.
	Thank you.

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