Nov. 26, 2013 - Project Camelot
20:04
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| Thank you. | |
| Just assuming they're all going to be online eventually. | |
| I do. | |
| I'll go get it. | |
| Hi, I'm Carrie Cassidy from Project Camelot, and I'm here at this 50th anniversary for the Kennedy assassination. | |
| And we've been having a very fascinating discussion, listening to the various speakers. | |
| And we're here with James Fetzer. | |
| the illustrious James Fetzer, and very happy to be able to catch just a few minutes of an interview with him face-to-face. | |
| So, Jim, give yourself a brief introduction, just the briefest, and then we'll just launch into some places. | |
| Sure. | |
| I'm a former Marine Corps officer and retired university professor who spent 35 years offering courses in logic, critical thinking, scientific reasoning, and became deeply involved in JFK and 9-11 research. | |
| Okay, excellent. | |
| And did you, were you organizing this? | |
| Because you seem really instrumental in getting this off the ground. | |
| Yes, I was the program chairman. | |
| Ralph Sincke, who is the founder of the Oswald Innocence Campaign, was handling the financial aspects while I was responsible for the program. | |
| Okay. | |
| Can you tell me, in terms of what you've heard today and what you know is going to be said the rest of the evening, and I know you're going to be speaking later on, could you tell me what you feel about what's being presented here? | |
| Well, I think there's a rather convincing case being presented that Lee Oswald was framed where Buell Wesley Frazier was a key witness against him and who has recently repudiated testimony he gave that incriminated Oswald in a crime he did not commit and where we are focusing a lot on a very famous photograph taken by AP photographer James I. Calchens in which you can see a figure in the doorway whose identity has been long disputed but where Thanks to the insight of | |
| Ralph Sinkey, who observed that if you look at the clothing, the build, the height, the weight, and the other features of the figure, rather than the face, that you can actually sort out who it was. | |
| And indeed, the clothing, the build, the height, the weight, and all that is the same as that of Lee Oswald and the clothing he was wearing that day when he was arrested, and very unlike That of the alternative, either Billy Love Lady, who was actually wearing a short-sleeved, vertically striped red and white shirt, or another figure in the crowd who's got a red and black checkered shirt that's buttoned up to the neck and who must outweigh doorman by 30 or more pounds. | |
| Okay. | |
| There also has been suggestion that obviously LBJ was involved, that Bush Sr. | |
| certainly was involved. | |
| I think some very good cases being made for both of those individuals being heavily, let's say, implicated in the power trail that leads to the event. | |
| Whether they were actually, as we hear, Bush Sr. | |
| appears to have been on the scene Although, and I guess LBJ himself was to some degree considered something of a mastermind, at least by one of the researchers here. | |
| However, as you and I know, there is a power that goes on behind the power, and that's kind of what's also been coming out. | |
| Are you feeling that they're getting to the root of the question? | |
| Oh, no doubt about it. | |
| That's why in my introductory remarks I drew a distinction between the sponsors of the event, the powerful special interests behind the scenes, who wanted the policies of JFK replaced by those of Lyndon Johnson, the facilitators. | |
| Where LBJ himself and J. Edgar Hoover were crucial, Linden in bringing about the conspiracy and the assassination. | |
| Hoover in using the FBI to cover it up. | |
| And then the mechanics on the ground where George Herbert Walker Bush appears to be among their supervisors. | |
| Okay. | |
| But it does come back to the doorstep of the CIA time and time again, from what I understand. | |
| And would you agree with that? | |
| Oh, there's no doubt. | |
| The CIA was the major presence throughout all of this. | |
| Where Noel Twyman, in his wonderful book, Bloody Treason, observed that the perfect conspiracy would involve CIA bringing in the Secret Service And then through his associations with the CIA and with the Joint Chiefs, bringing them together, where the CIA was already working with the mafia and the anti-Castro Cubans in efforts to get rid of Castro, and that all came together in Dealey Plaza, where each of those groups, Kerry actually had a shooter representing their interests. | |
| Exactly. | |
| Okay. | |
| Now, we were going to talk a bit about the Oliver Stone movie because that's so well known. | |
| And I actually would love to have Oliver Stone here being one of the speakers. | |
| I think that would be fascinating. | |
| I'm also hoping in the future to get him together in sort of a round table that you would be part of, in fact. | |
| And Jim Mars. | |
| And we have that in the works. | |
| So what would you say about Oliver Stone and some of the theories placed in there? | |
| I don't think he actually nails what happened exactly, but he hints at a lot of things. | |
| Well, I regard it as the most accurate, complete and comprehensive presentation of what actually happened in Dealey Plaza on 22 November 1963 ever presented to the public through the mass media. | |
| In my view, he had three things wrong. | |
| Number one, he had the shooting sequence too simple by half. | |
| He posits three teams of shooters who were actually six. | |
| He believed the Zoo Pruder film was authentic, but in fact, William Greer, the driver, pulled the limousine to the left into a halt to make sure JFK would be killed. | |
| And during that interval, he was hit twice in the head, once in the back of the head. | |
| He slumped forward. | |
| Jack eased him back up, was looking him right in the face when he was hit in the right temple by a frangible or exploding bullet. | |
| That blew his brains out the back of his head with such force that when they impacted motorcycle patrolman Bobby Hargis' writings of the left rear, he initially thought he himself had been hit. | |
| It was such a glaring indication of Secret Service complicity. | |
| They had to take it out, and when they took it out, there wasn't enough time for Clint Hill, who was Jackie's designated protector, to do all the things he actually did there. | |
| He rushed up the limo, got on the back, pushed Jackie back. | |
| actually done after a chunk of Jack's skull and brains on the trunk, lay across their bodies, peered into this fist-sized hole in the back of JFK's head, and gave his colleagues a thumbs down, all before the limousine reached the truck launderpass. | |
| But in the accident film, we don't see the limo stop, but we also don't see Clint Hill doing those things. | |
| He's consistently described for 50 years, Kerry. | |
| They also painted over the blowout at the back of his head in black and painted in a kind of a bulge in the right front, which was artificial. | |
| For example, Jackie said all the way to Parkland that from the front he looked just fine but he had a terrible time holding his skull and brains together in the back. | |
| And therefore, when I discovered a late frame, 374, where you can actually see the blowout, we had proof. | |
| I mean, the film is not even internally consistent because they painted it out in earlier frames, but I found a later frame where you can actually see it. | |
| And appreciate the difference. | |
| And then in the third place, he was, Oliver still believed that the man in the doorway was Billy Lovelady when we've shown not only that it appears to be Lee Oswald but that it cannot be Billy Lovelady or this other figure to whom I refer as Gorilla Man who actually doesn't look anything like Billy but who's claimed to have been him too. | |
| Okay. | |
| So what would you say in terms of Oliver Stone? | |
| I mean, would you encourage him to make another film, for example, on the same subject? | |
| I mean, to go deeper or not? | |
| Well, filmmakers, as a rule, you know, a great director like Oliver Stone is going to give it his best shot, and then he's going to move on to other projects, as he did in the case of Nixon, for example. | |
| I mean, there are other approaches he could take if he did a study of George Herbert Walker Bush. | |
| That might get into some very deep water because Bush, although ostensibly not involved with the CIA, actually appears to have overseen the Bay of Pigs invasion. | |
| Two of the ships were rechristened, one Barbara, one Houston. | |
| The whole operation was codenamed Zapata. | |
| That was the name of the family oil drilling business. | |
| I believe if it had been a success, That his company would have had the concession to drill all over the Caribbean Basin. | |
| And then, of course, we have this photograph that I was stunned to discover in Jesse Curry, the former chief of police for Dallas, JFK assassination file, which he published in a paperback edition, sold only in 7-Eleven stores when he became their head of security. | |
| And when I found this image, this photograph showing Bush Dane in front of the book depository, I was quite stunned and realized it was something very significant. | |
| Plus, in addition, we have a photograph of the so-called Three Tramps who are being escorted through Dealey Plaza, whom I'm convinced were the backup patsies that Lee Oswald hadn't worked out. | |
| And there's a civilian walking past them, oddly enough, who has been identified by Marine Corps General Victor Krulak and by L. Fletcher Prouty, who is a liaison between the CIA, the White House, and the Pentagon for Covert Ops, as having been General Edward Lansdale. | |
| Who was responsible for assassinations all over the world. | |
| And a third photograph were Lansdale's waiting to speak to Bush. | |
| I'm convinced that Lansdale was the key coordinator of the actual shooters where they were positioned in the sequence in which they took their shots. | |
| And that Bush was actually supervising the most important of those shooters, which was in the Dow Techs. | |
| Where an anti-Castro Cubing using an unsilenced man-looker Carcano fired three shots with two misses because it's a very unreliable weapon, but one hit, namely that hit in the back of JFK's head during the limo stop, where the fact that those were the only shots taken with an unsilenced weapon create the acoustical impression in Dealey Plaza of three shots having been taken because the spectators, for the most part, didn't realize other shots were being taken with weapons that were silenced. | |
| Okay. | |
| And that helps them support the one lone gunman theory, right? | |
| Oh, by creating the acoustical impression of three shots, yes, yes. | |
| But Oswald, in fact, wasn't even in the sixth floor. | |
| He was actually in the doorway and therefore wasn't even a shooter. | |
| Okay, but this new information about Oswald being in the doorway is, just as I say, relatively new. | |
| Is that correct? | |
| Well, to have been resolved in the definitive way we have resolved it, which derived from the fact that Ralph Sinke happens to be a chiropractor and pays great attention to clothing and physique, so that it was he who really instructed me that the key to identifying this person wasn't the face. | |
| They'd actually taken features of Billy Lovelady and imposed them over doorman's face. | |
| And later, when the FBI photographed Billy wearing the short-sleeved striped shirt, They put features of Lee's face over his to create greater ambiguity, but rather the clothing, the build, the height, and he was exactly right. | |
| It was a brilliant insight. | |
| So being sort of a specialist on posture, for example. | |
| Posture build, the way clothing fits. | |
| People come to him all the time because they want to look better in their clothes. | |
| So he had the right eye. | |
| He brought a fresh pair of eyes with the right background to see a problem the way no one had seen it before and to enable us to resolve it. | |
| I suggest decisively because really once you understand the evidence there's no reasonable alternative explanation which means that we've actually established it beyond a reasonable doubt. | |
| Absolutely. | |
| Okay, you're going to be speaking in just a few minutes, I believe, or an hour or so. | |
| And I was just wondering, the context of your speech, which is the assassination of America, you know, that's a statement with a lot of portent. | |
| And I think that, at least from my point of view, there was a coup that happened here in the United States with the killing of the assassination of John F. Kennedy. | |
| So with that in mind, that brought to the fore a whole sort of a group of Nazis, of New World Order individuals who then took over the United States and have moved us to the point we're at now. | |
| I'm wondering what your premise is for your topic. | |
| Well, there's something to what you're saying, because in Operation Paperclip we imported a whole lot of Nazi intel officers and scientists and integrated them into our intelligence services. | |
| It could be argued that 63 was part of the culmination of that effort, which was a huge mistake for a democratic society. | |
| sponsors behind the organization those include the cia because jack was threatening to shatter it into a thousand pieces he'd already instructed the pentagon to oversee its covert activities which neither of them like the joint chiefs had come on board with this because jack had not invaded cuba against their unanimous recommendation | |
| he'd signed an above ground test pan treaty with the soviet union against their unanimous opposition and now he was pulling our forces out of vietnam where they believe a stand had to be taken against the expansion of international godless communism He upset the anti-Castro Cubans, of course, who held him responsible for the Bay of Pigs, even though he actually was not, but the CIA allowed that false impression. | |
| To linger. | |
| The eastern establishment and the bankers were very upset because he'd instructed the Department of the Treasury to print United States notes, which had a red embossed imprint instead of green, on the ground that it was ridiculous for the government of the United States to pay interest to a consortium of private banks to print the currency of the United States. | |
| He was upsetting the Texas oil men because he was going to cut the oil depletion allowance. | |
| And there's a more distant issue hovering in the background that's very much underexplored to which JFK was at odds with David Ben-Gurion, the Prime Minister of Israel who wanted to develop nuclear weapons. | |
| Jack was opposed to it. | |
| David Ben-Gurion Resigned in frustration with JFK and it would not be surprising if through his contact with Meyer Lansky and with James Jesus Angleton who were both very instrumental in the mob and in the agency that he was able to influence the assassination. | |
| I have identified one shooter Frank Sturgis, who was a CIA mob guy who'd worked for the Olinsky Crime Syndicate, and who could be viewed as a representative of that interest, which very much deserves further exploration. | |
| Okay, well I would say there's two more, and then we're going to wrap this up, and you can give me your response to what I'm about to say. | |
| First of all, there is, from what I understand, there was the secret space program that was well on its way at that point, and my understanding was that John F. Kennedy was in the sort of the midst of wanting to go to the moon or beyond with the Russians. | |
| I don't know if that was just public relations but that was where he was headed and I've heard some rumblings that that was also something they were very unhappy about that he was willing to expand our relationships with other countries such that we would be working together to go in space rather than singly doing it as some kind of a competitive thing where You know, America bests the other countries, number one. | |
| And number two, and I'd like your response to both of these, I don't know if you know, but Michael Sala has just written a book that is all about the Kennedy assassination. | |
| The name of it eludes me, but it is all about the relationship that he had to the E.T. question and the fact that Kennedy wanted that, he and his brother wanted to bring that to the fore, wanted to bring that to the American people, and that this was also something that they wanted squelched. | |
| That entire book that has just been published, by the way, by Michael Sala, who is head of the exopolitis.org institute, is all about compiling that evidence to support the idea that Kennedy was killed because is all about compiling that evidence to support the idea that Kennedy Yeah, my answer is more definite with regard to the former than the latter. | |
| You're absolutely correct that he had proposed a joint venture in space exploration and traveling to the moon with the Soviets, which further antagonized the chiefs because they didn't believe that our technical and scientific advantage should be compromised with The nation, the entity, they regarded as our great adversary. | |
| With regard to the ET question, I think the situation is much more complicated and complex. | |
| I have friends who seem to know a great deal more about this than do I, who would probably agree, but by virtue of my not possessing comparable expertise, I cannot answer that in a definitive way. | |
| Okay, well, thank you so much for even, you know, having something to do with organizing this. | |
| I think it's very brave of you. | |
| I think it's still a very important question, one that we need to know. | |
| We need to know what happened in our history, how we got to this place, and this is all part of it. | |
| Any last words that you'd like to say? | |
| Well, yes, Carrie. | |
| We had a whole succession of presidents who would never have occupied that office but for the death of JFK, including Lyndon Johnson, Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford, George Herbert Walker Bush, and of course eventually his son, W., who never would have been taken seriously for that role. | |
| It had his father not served. | |
| I believe that the conservatives in this country were further alarmed that there might be a Kennedy dynasty, that JFK might serve two terms and then Bobby two and Teddy two more. | |
| It might have been good for America, but it would not have been good for business from their point of view. | |
| They made sure that did not happen. | |
| They took him out. | |
| Put in his place a man who would reverse all of those policies by going to war in Vietnam, by retaining the CIA, by keeping the Fed, by not cutting the oil depletion allowance, and by allowing Israel to go forward with its development of nuclear weapons. | |
| So I think it's very fair to say, as you've been putting it, that there was a coup in America in 1963, and frankly it's one from which we have yet to recover. | |
| Okay. | |
| Thank you very much, James Fetzer. | |
| Thank you for your service. | |
| My pleasure, Carrie. | |
| Thank you. |
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