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May 24, 2013 - Project Camelot
01:21:29
PROJECT CAMELOT : MELINDA LESLIE - MILABS RESEARCHER & EXPERIENCER
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Time Text
I was launching into this before I even realized what was happening.
And when I talk about this stuff, it's just like you wind me up and I just go, you know, it's just like it just goes...
Hi, I'm Carrie Cassidy from Project Camelot, and I am here with Melinda Leslie.
And we are at the Super Soldier Summit, and we're just taking a break to do a short interview with Melinda.
And this is a great opportunity because I've been wanting to interview her for some time.
And she is something of an expert, I would say, in the area of my labs, military abductions.
And we can go into that in more detail, and there's some other aspects that you talked about in your talk as well.
Sure, sure.
Some other sort of names, labels, et cetera, that maybe facilitate understanding a bit.
Well, you know, and I just want to say real quick in coming to this conference, you know, you say, oh, you're an expert in that.
Yeah, I've been doing it, and there's the cases I've worked with.
But then I come to a conference like this, and I realize how much I don't know.
You know, I mean...
I have to agree with you on that.
And my research kind of got shelved in the process of moving to Sedona, Arizona and doing different things.
Not shelved.
I've always had new cases, and I've always moved forward.
I've never stopped doing it, but not as actively as I was.
And I realize...
I'm behind on cases.
This field has progressed.
There's more people doing this research.
I mean, Miles' talk and the organization he has and the people they're working with, and I do talk to Joe Montaldo from time to time, so I'm familiar with what he's doing, but I mean, I have major catch-up to do on the fact that I feel like I've fallen behind a little.
I can't keep up with it.
It goes too fast.
Yeah, well, I mean, I have to say from the point of view of Camelot that this, as I was saying right before, this area that we're in, this discipline, whatever you want to call it, which is really the nature of humanity, what's really going on on the planet and who we really are, it's expanding in leaps and bounds right now.
And we're part of that expansion.
Sometimes it's hard to know whether you're chasing it or it's chasing you kind of thing.
And so at this conference we've had some wonderful revelations.
Wonderful James Bartley that I just heard talking about my labs.
I don't know if you saw his presentation.
Unfortunately I didn't.
I know James.
Absolutely excellent.
Thank you.
I wish I'd seen that.
Unfortunately I didn't.
Yeah, well, everyone can get all of this, I guess, on DVDs, and they're going to have a post-stream.
There's a couple people I've missed just because of getting caught up in conversations or interviews or this or that at this conference, so there's definitely, you know, I'm definitely going to be getting that stuff from Dennis and pouring over it.
Excellent.
But what I want to do here with you today, Melinda, is I was fascinated because actually I had known you as a researcher, but I didn't realize that you had your own sort of experiences and quite a substantial amount.
And I also want to say that in your presentation yesterday you had some drawings.
Yes.
And I don't know if you think about yourself in this way, but you're actually very good.
And I'll provide some of those to you for your use if you want to.
That would be wonderful.
That would be awesome, because you're a very good illustrator.
Well, some of those were done by other people.
No, but I know that you had your drawing next to another person who then did another version, and I want to just say from an artistic standpoint, because I'm sort of a connoisseur of art, and I can tell you that artistically, And yours are artistic, whereas the person that depicted on the other level was doing it more technically correct.
But yours was actually more of a, it had the emotion.
You see what I'm saying?
And so fascinating way of approaching it, and I want to encourage you to continue to draw your own experiences.
Thanks.
I get that from my people.
I mean, mine are like crude stick finger things almost, but it's just like, I have to catch what's in my mind.
I'm so visual, you know.
Yes.
And I remember those visuals.
And I know you can't translate that to someone else.
But thank God I've worked with some wonderful technical artists.
I mean, you know, Mark McCandlish and Bill McDonald.
No, I appreciate all of that.
The friendship of people like that who've been able to redraw some stuff for me.
Certainly, and they're wonderful at what they do.
I just want to encourage you to continue to draw yourself.
I should show you the three drawings I did for Yvonne Smith's new book.
She's writing right now.
It'll be out.
She's hoping to have physical copies when she goes to Roswell this year with her.
The three drawings I did for her, man, I worked really hard.
I'm so proud of those things.
Excellent.
Because I worked really hard on them.
Oh, that's fabulous.
But I'm not an artist.
But I was bound to turn into No, I think you should really go in that direction.
I think you should consider yourself an artist.
Thank you.
But at any rate, to get into your background and really your sort of journey, do you want to talk about that?
Yeah, sure.
Do you want it to be more like my own personal experience or how I get into the research?
Well, actually, those things dovetail, so I guess I'll just go through.
Yeah, I mean, I would like both, but I really do want to focus on you.
Okay.
In 1989, it's kind of an involved story, but I'll just give the total thumbnail view of it.
And if you ever want to ask me more, we can go into more detail.
But for the sake of today, and be brief so you can stop lunch.
In 1989, a friend of mine was listening to a radio program that was Billy Goodman's The Happening being broadcast out of Vegas.
Las Vegas.
And it was right when the Lazar story broke.
She was listening for Native American stuff because that was what she was into.
And it was John Weir going on talking about Bob Lazar.
And I'm not going to give a lot of explanation because I figure your viewer knows...
All the basics here.
I'm counting on everyone having, you know, an advanced green ufology to understand what I'm going to say.
And Lear was going on the program, and at the time with Bill Cooper as well, because they were friends.
And Lear had gone out with Bob Lazar and Gene Huff out to see the test flights and broke it on the radio program.
And it was just, you know, blowing my friend's mind.
She turned me on to listen to this.
I didn't really have an interest in the subject.
I kind of had a...
Maybe even a negative interest.
My prior interest was more from a metaphysical, spiritual bent of channeled material and stuff.
And anyways, we went out there on a last minute fluke.
I was living in Southern California at the time, Orange County.
And on a total last minute fluke, we went out to...
The show had rented two buses to go out to Area 51 to see these test flights that...
Lazar had shown Huff and Lear.
So we went out there and we had a number of sites.
It's just like having huge belief systems all shift overnight and a complete paradigm change for me.
I was like, okay, they absolutely exist.
They're defying physics.
They're anti-gravity.
They're flying in and out of a known military base.
There were Bronco Jeeps and black helicopters and all that stuff going on at the same time that these things were going boop, boop, boop in the air.
Wow.
And it was like, okay, they exist.
They defy gravity.
They're a different kind of physics, Like I said, they're flying in and out of a known military base.
And the government obviously knows about it.
So it wasn't only that UFOs exist.
It was that they exist.
They work with this kind of technology.
And there's a military base involved.
And...
The government knows about it because they're out there with them at the same time, and it's just like, okay, there's a government cover-up, and they exist, and there's physics, and so it was all these police systems just went, ching, ching, ching.
Well, something about having that was like inserting a key and unlocking something in my mind.
And I started to have dreams at night about recalling, for instance, childhood alien abduction experiences.
And it's a little more complicated, but again, I'm trying to be brief for you.
And...
And we were so into what was happening, we went back two weeks later from Southern California, you know, all the way out.
So, you know, five hours to Vegas, another two and a half out to Rachel, Nevada, a little alien, you know, and going to Mailbox Road and the Black Mailbox.
I mean, it's all that lore.
It's totally there.
And I became involved with other researchers.
I met Bill Hamilton out there, became friends with him, and then his wife Pam.
And other researchers and friends that I still have to this day.
My best friends.
And so, like I said, had signs.
It unlocked something in my brain.
We went back two weeks later, had more signs, went back a month after that.
So roughly in about a two-month period, we'd taken three trips out there, sat out all night long multiple times, and incredible signs every time.
Well, all this was, like I said, unlocking these memories from childhood, from being a teenager.
I mean, this was all in, you know, starting in about...
July and August in 1989, going into September and October, or August, starting in August 1989, going into October of 1989.
And so here I was, realizing I had had a lifetime of abduction experiences, and then I was also having current, present time experiences.
For instance, in late fall of 1989, Went to bed one night, kind of had an alarming conversation with a roommate.
We had a townhouse.
This roommate and I, a friend of hers was going through some difficult stuff.
She was kind of asking for my insight, maybe a little psychic insight kind of thing.
And I went to bed that night just, you know, thinking I want to sleep good and not have this on my mind.
I have to work.
I was in depression.
I'm a department manager at a clothing store, long story short, the next morning.
And so I thought, I want to sleep good.
So I sat in my bed to do a quick little, like, just like a little meditation, just calm myself and sleep good.
A little visualization exercise.
Probably done it thousands of times.
And I reached for the light next to me and I realized...
Two and a half hours have gone by.
And then the roommate witnessed, she thought she heard prowlers in the house.
She went to look.
She saw the light on in my room.
She knocked on my door.
Knocked on my door again.
I didn't answer.
She finally opened my door.
I wasn't there.
And then she also claimed later that she saw a gray alien in the hallway in the house.
So I had someone witness, because I had two and a half hours of missing time.
She witnessed I was gone, and she witnessed an alien in the house.
So this was kind of the whole beginning of my realizing I was having alien abductions I had my whole life.
My grandmother had a house in Yucca Valley, California, a little homestead in the middle of nowhere, Southern California desert, up in Tegertron and all that stuff.
My grandmother was not involved in that stuff.
In fact, she thought those people were crazy.
And I remember going to when there was the little airport out there when it existed in the early 60s when I was a little kid and seeing the UFOs.
Pictures of Damsky stuff as a kid.
But again, it was just kind of like, and I remember asking my mom tough questions to my parents, like, what's that?
And when I think back, and I think of looking at that stuff, and my parents being that silly, and I go, well, why is it silly?
There's pictures right here.
So even as a kid, There was some part of me, I think, that already knew, obviously.
And anyhow, so that's my learning.
I had alien abductions, and that's much more complicated and goes deeper.
But I continued to have present experience, and then I thought I was losing my mind.
I sought the help of a psychotherapist someone recommended to me, and that was Dr.
Deborah Trenkali, who unfortunately passed away about a year ago, but well-known amongst abduction people and a very good friend of Beth Hopkins, who unfortunately now we've also lost.
In fact, we lost them both.
I think within a month of each other, so that's very sad.
And a big, huge loss for me, obviously.
Huge on both cases.
And so with that, like I said, I learned I had alien abduction.
And then I had an experience in Well, it turned out early on then with that same roommate who witnessed that I was gone, there was a brief period where her 15-year-old daughter lived with us and they were sharing the same room.
And one night they claimed that they witnessed military men shouting orders at me in my room.
And I had no memory of that, but they were adamant.
They were like, we said we were woken up more than once during the night by these guys, clearly military language, clearly like giving you orders.
You were in tears, crying, saying no, you can't make me, I don't want to, whatever, you know.
And I didn't have any memory of it, but they were adamant.
And then in July of 1998, I got taken with two male friends while driving on a mountain road.
And actually, I just did a show for the Travel Channel all about that.
Oh, really?
Yeah, it's going to air.
It'll air in September.
October is our big watch Travel Channel.
And I also did a big show recently, because I'm now in Sedona, Arizona, did a show on underground bases and stuff for this new investigative show for the Discovery Channel.
Everyone will know all the team members of this investigation stuff.
But anyways, it's...
But the travel channel, we didn't get into the fact there was a military guy present.
We were just dealing with the aliens part.
But long story short, I was taken with two friends, and all three of us ended up getting regressed by Dr.
McCauley.
We had conscious memory.
It was, for the most part, a standard alien abduction, driving on the road, the car getting stopped, being removed from the car, going on board, urological and gynecological exercises, you know, blah, blah, blah.
But two of us, in regression, clearly remembered that there was a man in naval uniform standing in the background.
And so I had that.
And then I was meeting other abductees who were having the MyLab experience.
MyLab being military abduction.
I figure your viewers know, but just in case.
Military abduction involving alien abductees who then get targeted by covert ops, military and intelligence community, and have harassment surveillance, reabduction, interrogation.
Side testing, you know, goes on and on.
I mean, it's very complicated.
There's many levels that people can be used in many ways, including, like we're here for this conference about super soldiers, including both information that's then used to create super soldiers as well as use some abductees in that capacity.
Right, as well as actually what seems to be partnerships in a sense, in a little sense of that, of the MyLab with a super soldier to then augment the super soldier's abilities or complement it.
Exactly.
So it's everything from, in the MyLabs, they use the alien abductees for information that they can then apply to that program to directly using some.
I mean, if you're an alien abductee and you're in the military, guess what?
You know?
You know, you end up being one of these people.
And I'm not in every case, but I mean, it's just like, I'm never surprised by the stories I get from people and what I hear.
So even though there were some new aspects that here, none of it surprises me.
It dovetails, it makes perfect sense, I can see how it developed, you know.
Anyway, so going back...
Okay, but just let me break in here and ask you, did you have any military in your background or family members?
Yeah, and that's the thing that comes up in my research.
No, I've never been in the military.
And for that reason, I never considered myself a super soldier in any capacity.
Although there's things that have come out here and things about my own experience that I went, well, there's a lot of dovetailing.
Was I used?
And even though I wasn't a soldier, was I used a super spy?
And then I even joked with some people...
Beforehand, and Laurie Ann on some radio interviews and stuff with her, Laurie Ann, the producer, that's Laurie Ann Fenton, about they're super soldiers, they're super spies, and they're super technicians.
And a lot of these guys who end up working at Area 51 and stuff, you know, I could list a bunch of them, but you know, a bunch of these guys, everything from, I don't know, I don't want to mention names too much on a tangent, but I'm saying, but they're like super technicians.
They got involved in the programs.
Were they soldiers?
Some of them might have had some military background, but most of them not.
And it's just because they were technicalized, even the Lazar story where I mentioned him already, super technician, getting involved in the program, interfacing with ETs, the whole thing.
Right.
But let me just say here that, you know, because I can read certain things off other people, okay?
And what I have been getting off of you, and I'm interested to sort of explore, and it doesn't make it true or right, you know, it's just throwing it out, is this notion of you yourself also being a, what you might say is a my lab in that world, working sort of as...
On a more executive capacity that has to do with not technician, but more psychological sort of handler, facilitator for other my labs.
Well, that's interesting.
I mean, not with zero knowledge of myself, but let's just say this isn't the first time where I've had to consider such a notion, whether I thought of it or somebody else has thought of it.
And maybe years ago I'd go, you know, because you don't want to feel like you're being used or manipulated, but at the same time I'm like, you know, there's a part of me...
I mean, on the surface, no.
On the surface, no.
But at the same time, it's like...
And it's always been kind of a concern to me.
At what point am I useful to them for doing what I'm doing?
And then I realize I can't really worry about that because I'm still about validating parts of my own.
And I should probably say that for the sake of people watching this.
How I... Finding out I was an abdictee and then finding out I was having the MyLab.
It was really in 1993 that it really broke open for me because I'd had the roommates saying military men shouting oars at me and then I had the experience of myself with the guys and the guy in military uniform in the background.
But I kind of pushed those things aside as, okay, well that's interesting.
And I started to hear cases and knew Carla Turner and what she was working with and met Leisha Davidson and a few other people.
Crystal Tilton and, you know, these kinds of things.
I started to go, hmm, you know.
And then all of a sudden, in 93, what really broke it open for me on a real personal level was I had an experience in July and then November of 1993 that were hardcore, big-time, serious military reabductions.
And one of them, and I haven't come to this decision lightly, but I'm very upfront with it now.
One of them was very much...
And it was my speaking at a MUFON, I can talk about this more in depth later, but where I had a gynecological surgeon explain to me that I was describing something he had performed and knew, not in the experience, I'm saying later speaking at a MUFON, this gentleman who was on their board talked to me.
And I later realized after talking to him that I had had an experience where I had had A gynecological procedure in an underground base at the hands of the military and believed that they removed a misformed or not, you know, certainly not completely formed, very early, like abortion procedure, very early term abortion, scraping of the uterine walls kind of thing, but that it was alien fetal tissue they were removing.
And now I feel strongly that that's what happened, and after talking to him and stuff, I realize.
And then I had another experience where, again, I was abducted, taken to an underground base, and specifically interrogated about alien technology.
And also threatened.
I mean, every experience involves threatening and stuff.
I realize, you know, so when an abject, he says, oh, they took me and threatened me, I go, what else did they do?
Well, they threatened me.
Well, they told me if I talk, I'll talk.
What else did they do?
Because I know that's like, that's the beginning of their chipping away at the memory.
They don't take you really just for that.
That's usually part of the suppressing your memory procedure.
And I'm like, well, you know, were you tested for Cy?
Did you have any medical stuff go on with them?
Was there other programming?
You know, because there's more.
I just learned from working with so many people, there's more.
If they're spending the time, energy, and the money, you know, they're going to fork out a couple million dollars to come get you and do something, you know, and the technology they use and everything.
You're giving them something of value.
Or they wouldn't keep doing it.
And that's absolutely true and very valid.
What I wanted to say was, what about the notion that you also could be, in that process, be debriefed?
In other words, debriefing them on what you have found, what you've encountered, and so on.
I don't have any memories of that.
Of course, you know, I've learned to say, hey, I'm open to, you know, any possibility that could come out.
Okay.
But in honesty, I don't have memory.
The recall of that part.
But that would make sense.
The threats might come later.
They may be interspersed with that.
In other words, you're talking about, as you said, the levels at which they're approaching you.
What I was struck by when you spoke was this sort of level at which it seemed the military came to you and dealt with you was on almost an end.
On a different level, it's sort of like more, let's say you're a military guy and you talk to a doctor, then you're also talking to the patient.
I see them talking to you less as a military person to a patient relationship than to a military person almost to a colleague, but a colleague who is there possibly against their will.
It's funny you should bring that up.
There's something I ran out of time and didn't get into in my talk.
And I thought about later, and I was like, oh, I wish I'd covered that aspect.
There were certain slides and stuff, but I could have easily filled two hours, not just an hour.
Which is what's called the minder scenario.
Quoting my lab abductee, famous remote viewer, Angela Thompson-Smith.
I don't know if you've ever talked to her, but Angela Thompson-Smith, who wrote a book called Diarrhea and Abduction.
But she talked about, and other people have too, this minder scenario, which is, I guess it's another word for handler, but it's more like meeting these insiders who then give you information, or it flows two ways.
They're also getting information.
And I've had that in spades.
I know a lot of insiders.
I've had a lot of them provide information to me, confirm parts of my own personal experience, like things I never told anyone where they said, I know you were here and this happened to you.
Do you remember when this and this and this happened to you?
And I went, yeah, it's funny you should know that.
And it wasn't to frighten me.
It was to build like a trust relationship.
Now, I don't want anyone that I'm ever talking to about their experiences to say, you know, am I sharing those experiences with people like that?
Hell no!
You know?
But that it's like they've made a friend of mine, they're following what I'm doing, they follow my research, And some of it's all very good and helpful.
I mean, Dear Jack Hauk, who just passed away.
You've moved Jack Hauk?
I don't think so.
So a lot of it's helpful and very wonderful.
And some of it borders on being creepy.
I'm friends with some creepy people.
John Alexander.
Oh, really?
But, you know, I'm just saying, it's like, what do you, you know, and I shouldn't say I'm friends, but I'm just saying there's people who, like, pay attention to what I'm doing, and it's like, but I chalk it all up to evidence.
If what I was doing was not significant, they wouldn't be paying attention.
Sure.
And at the same time, I've had a lot of these kind of people provide me very useful information.
Right.
And of course I'm realizing, you know, I'm always cautious of that, you know, that 10% misinformation.
As they say, you know, they'll leave you on.
It's 80% or 90% legit and then watch out for the other.
But I mean, when something doesn't fit, I put it over to the side.
It's like this doesn't fit.
This doesn't back something up.
But I don't feel I've really had anyone purposefully mislead me.
In fact, if anything, they've really, for as many insiders and stuff I know, not that many have actually provided me any real information, other than to verify parts of my own personal experience, but that they're very interested in my research.
So to that regard, in that way I can say, yes, you're right.
But I believe I've had eight military reabductions.
And in those, yes, there are a few where I only remember the interrogation part as being the fear and intimidation stuff.
So what I was just accusing other people of, I know there's deeper levels, there's experiences where I've explored that deeply, so that's something else could be there in those experiences.
The ones I've explored deeply, like I said, one was all about technology, and I had actually...
And I don't know when this happened, so obviously I had a previous experience of some kind where they had given me some kind of post-technotic suggestion that if I saw this certain piece of technology, I would remember it.
And then they did this whole procedure.
Helmut Lamber, in his book My Labs, wrote a chapter about me and wrote something that helped me realize something was happening to me that I didn't realize until I read about my story in his book.
And I'm reading about me in his book and I go, oh my god, that's it.
And I didn't realize he was going to say that about my experience, but he had interviewed me over the phone extensively prior to that, a couple of times I think.
But it was that they had split a personality, personality A, personality B, created an altar.
That person had been given the post-it non-suggestion to retrain a certain kind of piece of information.
So when they took me through fear, intimidation, pain, and drugs, they suppressed me, Melinda, personality A, access to the altar.
They gave them that technical information, and I ended up doing a lot of deep work.
I don't remember every detail, so it's like what they, you know...
Tech people have asked me, engineers and stuff.
And I said, well, it was all very vague, but I remember I drew it for them, and they had like half of something drawn, and I drew the other half, provided them the rest of the information in that experience.
But that took a lot of work to try and figure out what had happened there.
But again, for those few experiences that I've done that in-depth investigation of myself and hypnosis, hypnotherapy, I mean, thank God for...
You know, Deborah Trincali and Sean Atlante and their help with me, and Bill Hamilton initially, and then now Yvonne Smith.
I mean, you know, it's really a useful tool when these people are good at what they do to help you fill in those gaps.
And Barbara Lamb as well, too.
So I've worked with a number of people that have been a tremendous help, and I'm so proud.
I'm blessed by having them in my life.
But I also have a lot of conscious memory.
But anyway, so what I started to say is I did a lot of in-depth stuff to try to figure out certain experiences, but there's others.
I mean, there's an experience once a friend of mine, Shelly and I, had taken before moving many, many years ago in the mid-90s, before I just moved two years ago to Sedona, Arizona.
Prior to that, Shelly and I had a trip.
I had taken many trips, over 25 years, to Sedona.
But on one of those, when Shelly and I went, we had a significant period of missing time.
She remembers the car being stopped by military guys, and I was escorted away.
That's all I remember about that experience.
Yeah.
So, when you say that, part of me wants to go, oh, no, no.
And I don't want anyone to think, oh, they can't talk to me, because it's like, you guys, I'm not...
Willingly doing anything.
Let me say this, because I don't want you to get the wrong idea by my question here, or even my perception.
It is my perception, and so I don't want to put it on you.
I want this to be something of a stimulus that either helps to bounce things around, Sure.
I have contacts.
Those contacts give me information.
Sure.
From time to time, some of those contacts attempt to get information.
Of course.
And obviously...
That's their job.
And hopefully it means, by God, of course it means what you're doing is well on their radar.
Sure.
And I would expect that.
And I see it as, and I chalk it up to evidence that what I'm doing is important, that these guys would spend the time and energy.
Right.
But it's also important to understand when I'm saying contacts, in other words, these people, and I say this many times, but whistleblowers, contacts, even the ones that don't come forward but just come on a personal level to talk to you, they are doing so, they are often walking both sides of the street, so to speak, in the process.
So whether it be...
I actually find that, Carrie, to be the case with pretty much all of them.
Even the ones that come forward.
There's a saying, once in the CIA, always in the CIA, you can never get out.
It's almost like you can never get out.
I don't care what level of the government that you've been in.
If you've been in that capacity, they're always tapping into you.
They're using you.
Whether you like it or not, they're using you.
In other words, they're getting in there because you become a resource to them and an asset.
They literally call them assets, of course.
So through them, they're going to kind of be doing a fishing expedition out there.
It's almost like sending out a retriever dog to get what you need.
The dog also can befriend you.
Whoever they contact and wherever they go.
So, you know, in other words, the door swings both ways.
And that's even on the completely, you know, conscious level.
Let alone when you get into the varying ways in which mind control could be at work and at play there too.
Sure.
To realize, you know, so that's why I make it clear to people.
I'm not wittingly supplying anything.
But I can't.
I don't have any memory, like I was saying, of them specifically looking for information about anybody else's cases, but at the same time, in my experiences, that's not there.
But again, there's experiences where I just remember the trauma stuff and I don't remember the rest.
Right, but there's an interfacing going on between you and the military in a very specific way that if you follow a trajectory from point A earlier in your life all the way to now.
You would ask me, was I in the military?
No, but we're family.
And that's one thing I've done in my research.
And so my case is very typical of others.
I started to see these patterns.
And Misha and I originally were working on a book together, Misha Johnson and I, until she went out of the field for a while because her personal harassment and the threats to her family and her life got too intense.
I mean, literally attempts on her life, repeatedly, that she pulled out.
And thank God she's back and back in spades, and I welcome it so much.
And she's so strong to do that.
Because some people get it really tough.
And that's another thing I've never had.
And that's another thing that's made me always kind of curious.
Yes, I've had tough stuff happen, but I haven't had half the crap happen to me that some of my cases have had.
I mean, 9 o'clock, Niara, Fisha, and Leisha Davidson, oh my God, I can just, and James Bartley, and I just think, oh my God, some of these people, what they've been through.
I have not been through it that bad.
But I'm some kind of usefulness, whatever.
I mean, I totally would say I would not rule that out.
I understand that.
Yeah.
But also what I was trying to say is military background stuff.
Yeah, my dad was in World War II. I had other relatives that were in the military.
Masons go back in my family.
You know, in this circle of stuff, people say bloodline.
Leslie, there's a Leslie Castle.
There's a whole history there.
And I go, oh, okay, bloodline.
You know, I mean, there's a whole bunch of both sides of the family, you know, and I'm like, okay, there's, you know, and I start to go, okay, all these, what I'm researching about other people and finding these scenarios fits for me.
Well, I'm finding the same thing.
You see what I mean?
So, in other words, what I think is that a soul doesn't get involved in this sort of area.
It's always been a source of humor to me that people, when they dealt with me, they deal with journalists.
They think a journalist is outside the questioning that they're doing.
But that's not true, if you're honest.
Then you recognize that you wouldn't go down that path if there wasn't a lot that dealt with your own life.
What do you call it?
A spiritual contract, a soul contract, past lives.
I'm so glad that you see that and you're talking about that.
That's one thing that's wonderful about this particular conference that we're at.
We're crossing those boundaries and talking about that stuff.
When, you know, and the paradigm is changing for how we're viewing these subjects to realize...
I mean, of course, anything in life, there is a mental, physical, spiritual component to everything, and you can't have one without the other.
Right.
And so in this component...
Is there going to be a past life connection?
Is there going to be a spiritual thing?
Yes.
I mean, so often in ufology we try to be nuts and bolts and stick to the documentation and the evidence and I came from there and I had to put the spiritual stuff aside.
To gain credibility in ufology to now come full circle to where I'm doing readings full time in Sedona, Arizona.
I mean, hello!
To finally go, I accept that part of me.
And I'm taking it back in and I don't care what anybody thinks anymore.
But I, for years...
I left that out of the equation so I would be credible in ufology.
That's right.
But I played that game because I had to.
Because 10, 20 years ago in ufology, you had to play that game.
Yes.
Unfortunately.
But like I said, now it's changing.
And so the mind control field, the super soldiers, the conspiracy fields, and ufology are coming full circle to go, wait a second, you know, there are these other parts.
And like you said, so you're drawn to the subject matter Why is that?
It's the truth.
It has to do with you.
In other words, we're all exploring our own sort of story.
And sometimes we do so through others, in other words, and through service to others.
And that, in essence, is what's happening here.
So you're certainly doing a service to others.
But in the process, it's revealing truths about your own life.
Well, and that's something that got said a lot at this conference is...
You know, because people, a few people here have been maybe afraid to get up and say something or cautious about it or agreed to and then pulled back or, you know.
And a couple of the speakers have said, look, you know, you're either doing this wrong yesterday.
Oh, my God.
I forget Ron's last name, but he was the one that had the severe...
T.I., Targeted Individual Electronic Craftsman stuff.
That's just like, wow.
I mean, his case is amazing and very well-documented, evidence-based, etc.
But he says something about, you know, you're either in this to make a difference or you're not.
And I'd say that, you know, To anyone else out there who's thinking the disclosure people and the insiders, it's like You know, you're going public to make a difference, to get this information out there, bring out the truth, enlighten people, and change how this is handled.
Yes.
Or you're not.
That's right.
You know?
Yeah, and I said the same thing.
And that overcomes so many obstacles.
I forget the saying right now, the quote, but when you make that decision, the universe comes to your aid and provides you stuff, you know, and...
You know, and things come to you and happen.
And that applies with everything in life.
Well, it certainly applies to this.
And certainly, like, you know, ET abductees know when they gain that control and in their experience and they assert their will, the ETs go...
And there's like respect to that.
They back off.
People stop, alter, change their experience from learning to be really conscious and assert their will in the experience.
That's right.
Well, the same thing with the military guys.
They respect when you're a strong person and you go, uh, they go, whoa, you know.
Yeah, that's right.
This is not someone we can influence and control.
Right.
This is someone who is free of their own mind and overcomes the programming because they know who they are, they know where they're going, and they have a higher purpose to doing it.
Exactly.
And it overcomes the fear.
People say, aren't you afraid?
You've been beat up.
I mean, I don't know if I... No, I didn't talk about my talk, but it was...
After Misha and I have the abduction, we were taken from her apartment.
And I wasn't beat up like, you know, they weren't like, we're going to beat you up.
The experience wasn't like that.
It was more like I resisted and I got manhandled from being resisted and ended up being very bruised and stuff.
But a week later, her and I were presenting together at the Bay Area, long story short, simple explanation, but Bay Area UFO Expo West, or not UFO Expo West, that was James, but Vicki's conference, Bay Area UFO, or Yeah, Barry UFOs.
And Misha and I were presenting there, and a friend of hers from San Diego came up.
I was in Newport Beach at the time.
They drove up.
We were going to drive up together.
They called and said we were leaving.
I jumped in the shower to get ready.
I come out of the shower, and I'm doing my usual routine.
Next thing I know, I come to, like I'm snapping out of being in a trance state.
I'm holding a blow dryer in my hands, and I'm holding it under the running water.
Wow.
Yeah.
So obviously some programming or something took over, like, stop yourself from going to this conference and presenting.
And I've had other stuff.
I've had that happen this weekend.
But anyways, I had my, you know, the blow dryer in the water.
I threw it and jumped back.
Wow.
But that kind of thing.
I know there was a point to my bringing up this story.
I'm sorry.
I just slipped my mind.
Not enough sleep.
But...
But anyways, but that kind of thing...
Oh, what I started to say is you over...
So people say, why are you still talking when you have these things and you have these commands?
I didn't get to that in my research, in my presentation either.
But a lot of abductees in these military abductions, in their my labs, get given these commands to hurt themselves, stop themselves, should they start talking.
And I've had people burn themselves, cut themselves, because...
It was to stop them from doing it.
I mean, run their car out the road.
I mean, how many abductees have run their car out the road because they were given that command?
I mean, it's just like, so people, you know, and it's like to stop yourself or to do something so scary that now you're afraid to ever do anything again.
And people are like, how do you do that?
But that's my point, was the desire to make a difference, go public, say something, is more powerful than any of that.
And that's how you move beyond it.
The higher mission, so to speak, takes precedence.
And it fits with exactly what you were just saying, that there's a spiritual purpose, a soul purpose, a past life thing, that you go, this is why I'm here and this is what I'm doing.
It's override.
It's manual override, basically.
And you take control.
You steer the car.
You steer yourself and your destiny.
And the destiny, contribute to the destiny of the human race going in a different direction.
Yeah.
Which is what we're really doing here.
And so, yeah, it's not for the faint of heart, so to speak.
No.
But I think more and more people are gaining courage, though.
People don't get scared and have stuff happen.
It's just...
When the desire to make a difference is stronger than that, it's like, you know, you flip that switch and suddenly it's no big deal.
And then also I have also, you know, I call it I have my experiencer hat.
You know, there's the time when I'm the experiencer and I'm caught up in that.
But so many times, and I have this kind of, people realize...
It's almost like a disassociative thing in my experiences to put on my researcher hat and disassociate with, oh my God, Belinda's going through trauma, put on my researcher hat and say, absorb, listen, go back, gain all the evidence.
Because, I mean, it's like now, they don't buzz me with black helicopters anymore because every time they do, I'm out there saying, here's the pictures and here's the...
Exactly.
Because it's evidence.
And even the insiders that I'm friends with, anything they say to me becomes evidence and goes into my talks and presentations.
That's right.
That's exactly.
Exactly right.
It's not going to say anything to me unless they want it public.
Well, let's also talk about that a little bit because handlers are everywhere.
And there are a lot of people, in other words, being used as handlers.
A handler, I think, is someone who really directs you and guides you.
A minder is just people who are watching you and monitoring.
And have a little hands-on.
So I call it minders.
Okay, handler in the sense that what they are is at least, I'm not talking sort of an unofficial handler that sometimes is just an asset that's been utilized.
But I'm talking about a handler that is cognizant In other words, they're conscious of the fact that they are a handler.
That is their job.
They're supposed to be your handler.
They report in about you.
I know in cases that's not been for me, but I've worked with people and...
And some of the insiders I've worked with have had specific handlers, and we're very cognizant of what they're doing.
Exactly.
And so what happens is, though, you're having a relationship with the handler.
In other words, that's key.
So a lot of people, some people out there, won't know that what happens is the handler is not just some guy or woman, depending on who they are.
Usually it's the opposite sex.
I imagine with gay people it might be the same sex.
But it's somebody who...
Forms a bond with the targeted individual.
And so what happens is their bond is created because it's not artificial.
It's actually real.
So this is where people kind of get off on a tangent.
They don't understand that the shades of gray that go on into the human relationship side of this equation.
Yeah, no, absolutely.
So I wanted to talk to you about that a little bit.
Some abductees end up...
Well, many become involved in personal relationships of a romantic nature with their minders, and even some of those have gotten married.
I think of Denise Baham and realizing...
Of course, in her case, I think the husband was not knowingly.
I think he was under mind control, that he was programmed.
Sure.
And, you know, but I mean, so some abductees end up marrying and becoming involved with the handlers or their minders.
And sometimes these people, they can have everything, like you were just saying, from full conscious where they're reporting back and they know that they are, to ones that are more minders who are more just like monitoring you, but they're not reporting all the time unless there's something significant, to possibly those that are unwittingly doing it and are under some kind of influence or to possibly those that are unwittingly doing it and are under Exactly.
Like Denise's husband.
Yes.
And so this is going on constantly, though.
This is what I want to say.
And in your own life...
If you're an abdictee and your significant other, you know, someone puts a gun to your head or pulls a knife on you, guess what?
No, I'm just saying.
But unfortunately, that kind of stuff has happened.
Okay.
Yeah.
All right.
But in terms of your own trajectory, let's say you must be aware of those people who are monitoring you.
And minding you.
In some cases, yeah.
I mean, yeah.
Okay.
And it's not like I have stuff going on all the time.
I'm not...
Believe me, we know a lot of paranoid people.
I try not to be.
No, but I'm not.
I don't think it's going on all the time.
I don't think I've worn enough interest.
I'm low on the totem pole, especially now when I wasn't doing a lot in the field for a long time.
But Erin, once in a while, something surfaced.
I had something happen.
A gentleman, I'll say to you privately...
But not for the sake of the recording.
But someone came.
He knew some of the other minders and stuff that I knew.
His timing for showing up...
It was just a couple months ago.
It had already been advertised as going to be at this conference.
It was just, maybe it's, you know, sometimes you go, is it all just a lot of amazing coincidences?
Is there something going on?
Yeah, exactly.
And sometimes you don't know.
But the way he showed up in my life, and he's a nice man.
We became friends.
He's friends with some of these other guys that I know.
But I'm like, here's another one.
Right.
I talk a lot with Randy Copang, researcher in this field who wrote, you should interview Randy at some point, but Camouflage, who limited disclosure, and his extensive work with Bill Ewhouse and Bill Ewhouse's family about that whole case.
Bill Ewhouse is now deceased, but Randy still talks to his son.
Very interesting, but...
But I'm constantly, because Randy and I share, and we do research together all the time, so whenever anything like this happens, I call Randy and go, guess what, Randy?
Because he's the one person that understands and gets how it works.
And sure enough, it was just the timing was interesting.
And one of the minor people passed away, and I feel like was the torch being passed to one of his friends.
Oh, interesting.
And yet, the man's really nice and I don't have any problems.
So, again, I don't see them all...
When you meet an insider, don't instantly be paranoid, especially if you're a researcher in this field.
Seize the moment to get everything you can.
And be careful what you say, because they know anything they say to you, you're talking to others and you're going public with.
Well, same thing.
Assume that anything you say to them is going the other way.
But it can become a useful thing.
It's not...
Well, I mean, the other part of it is sometimes your handler can be a white hat.
In other words, as I was trying to talk about, walking both sides of the street.
In other words, it's also important to understand that What we're finding here, and even at this conference, the Super Soldier Conference, people think the word Super Soldier, as we've talked about, can be somewhat misleading.
It's like my lab.
They become these catch-all terms that no longer apply.
But I would even say that a wider...
In a sense, you could say, all Super Soldiers are my labs, but all my labs are not Super Soldiers.
So it's kind of a funny thing.
The designation of my lab with me and in my research specifically meant Alien abductee being used.
Right.
But now I realize my lab means a bigger subject, so that's why I started to call my research, and I'm trying to get people to pick up on the term.
I don't care about the term.
It doesn't matter, but I think it fits better to say a reverse-engineered abductee, because in ufology, you say reverse engineering, and everyone thinks of crash retrievals, and they get it.
If they're knowledgeable, they're like, oh yeah, totally, get it.
And the insiders, and they're being involved in the program, you get it.
And I'm thinking that's what's happening to the abductees.
Just like the technology is being reverse engineered, the abductees are being reverse engineered.
Or they're facilitating the, as we've said, the engineering.
Yeah, that's what I mean.
Okay, so fair enough.
But what I wanted to say was the idea being that if you're dealing with a handler or a minder, so to speak, And they are sort of crossing over to your side.
What happens is you also get the opposite side of this.
And what I wanted to bring up, because I just did a very sort of explosive interview with Michael Prince and, let's see, Max Spears.
Max's story just fascinates the heck out of me.
And Michael Prince.
But we're talking about, in other words, they're coming from the very opposite side.
They are working for the man, for lack of a better terminology, or the Illuminati.
And they're proud of it.
In other words, they're deep in.
And they don't want to come out.
In other words, they're doing what they're doing.
So they're here at a super soldier conference.
People have this idea.
Oh, super soldiers coming out are whistleblowers.
They're not disclosing, no.
They're not, you know, they're not like...
The same with ufology.
Yes.
We have researchers in the field that have their feet securely on both sides.
Yes, yes, absolutely.
And their deal to come forward, and this was true of Leo Zagami, for example, an Illuminati whistleblower who really, in a sense, he was always going to go back on the other side.
Sure.
That was part of his trajectory.
That was the plan.
You know who helped me to understand that lie?
I mentioned Bill Ewhouse earlier.
Bill Ewhouse said, I was told to go public, I can talk about this, I can't talk about that.
He was always up front, and then he went back in the program later.
Bob Lazar did the same thing.
Yeah, absolutely.
But see, all of this confuses people out there, because they want a black and white world.
They want somebody who's a whistleblower, stays outside, and is having their life threatened regularly.
Exactly.
Like we want that.
No, I mean that no deals had to be made.
In other words, that that whistleblower is out telling the absolute truth, laying it out on a platter, never giving you disinfo, and then that they're never going back to their handlers and they're never crossing back over.
One thing I've learned about every insider, every whistleblower, every super soldier, anyone deep in, In every case, they know what they can say and what they can't.
They know where that fine line is and they know what will get them killed.
So don't assume they're telling you everything.
They're not.
There's things that they aren't telling you because they know if that's the one thing that would get me killed.
Right.
Or get a family member killed.
Actually, I'm glad you said that.
Often the case, that's what's the more significant.
You know, that they do tell these people, we'll kill your children, we'll kill your grandchildren.
And, yeah.
It's a very, very real threat.
And I tell people...
Don't, you know, don't say anything that's going to jeopardize someone's well-being.
Yeah, and I do the same thing.
I think you can disclose doesn't mean you have to disclose everything.
I don't ask them of that.
I don't, tongue-tied, I don't ask that of them.
Okay.
Fair enough.
Well, I think this has been, you know, a great conversation and I think this will help people, at least because we both come at it from the point of view of both researchers and interviewers and experiencers, if you will.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, you asked me earlier, and I think this is important to say on tape, you asked me, I think, before we were recording, do I kind of do any therapy hypnosis?
No.
No, I'm not a therapist in any sort.
I'm not trained in any of that.
I'm someone who had my own experiences, who met other people who had experiences early on with Carla Turner and Leisha Davidson and et cetera, et cetera, Kate Wilson, and just talking to these people and saying, oh my gosh, here's someone who's been through what I've been through and what have you been through and I want to know.
So I started to interview people to say, how does your experience relate to mine?
And then as I started to give presentation stuff, I was incorporating that information And before I knew it, I was known in ufology as someone interviewing and researching my lab cases.
And then had Carla Turner.
I was saying this earlier, Carla Turner and her friendship with me, kind of like saying, here, go, talk.
Absolutely.
And pushing me out there.
And other people.
I mean, Bud Hopkins.
Bud Hopkins said, talk about it.
Great.
Bud Hopkins used to say, I'm glad you're talking about this, then I don't have to.
People think, oh, Bud and Dave and these guys weren't into this.
No, no.
Well, okay, maybe with Dave.
But with, like, Bud and dear John Mack.
I mean, John Mack was such a support and absolutely had cases of this.
And I interviewed him about it.
And Bud, I mean, you know, how many people have I worked with in my labs who've worked with Bud?
I mean, we heard Niara get up there and talk about her regressions with Bud.
I mean, I've worked with...
When I say worked with, and I just want to tell people, again, I'm not a therapist or anything.
It just means people I've talked to who I've interviewed and I know deeper details of their experience.
That's all.
So it's like saying everyone you've interviewed is a case of yours.
Sure.
It's like saying that.
I understand.
Well, I mean, because you have been sort of front and center with some of these people that are so well known in the field and some of whom are not accessible at this time, like Bud Hopkins, it sounds like you had interactions...
Yeah, Bud's a dear friend.
David Jacobs, are you saying?
Yeah.
And also Carla Turner.
Can you tell us something about each?
And John Mack, and John Carpenter, and Leo Sprinkle.
All right.
I mean, John Carpenter, Leo Sprinkle all have had a couple hundred cases each of people who've had the mildest.
I mean, it just became where it was just such a known part of the abduction research that the researchers had cases of this and were working with people.
And some of them, like John Carpenter and Leo Sprinkle, shared information about their cases.
But a few of the researchers kind of put it on the back burner.
Well, quite frankly, in all honesty, the subject scared them.
They didn't know what to do with it.
It took it to another level of reality for them.
And, uh, and I understand that.
It's changing.
I mean, we're talking, you know, 20 years ago, and you fought you for that until 10 years ago.
Yes, it's changed a lot.
But it is changing significantly.
Yes, yeah.
And now, like I said, I'm out over in Sedona taking people out with military night vision goggles to have sightings and doing readings and stuff, and I'm so busy working and stuff, I've kind of, you know, in two or even three years, I realize I'm I'm behind the ball on this subject.
I mean, Miles, Johnston, and what he's doing in England and Ireland with the cases and stuff.
Amish, you know, they have...
I didn't know he'd taken...
I mean, I've known Miles for years, but I probably hadn't talked to him in almost two or three years, and I didn't know that they were doing that.
And I'm like, wow.
And I'm like, I've got to talk to you, get up on your cases.
Joel Mantalo's got all these international cases.
I'm like, okay, I guess I need to get on the ball with my research.
Yeah.
Yeah, no, I hear you.
Get up to speed.
You hold back for two years and you're suddenly...
You're not in the loop anymore.
Sure.
But just because I know people are going to ask about Carla Turner, for example.
Sure.
She was such a rich source of information.
Just gutsy.
Just balls out, man.
Good for her.
And so can you talk maybe, I don't know, anecdotally or any other way, is there anything you can say to us about maybe short, just a short...
I have to admit.
I mean, I knew her and we were friends, but I didn't know her that well, unfortunately.
But she was supportive of what I did.
There was a wonderful time.
Again, Randy Copank did an interview that ran in a couple of magazines where he sat Carla and I down and interviewed us together.
And I think Carla and I learned more about each other's stuff in that interview.
And no, but she's just a wonderful, just incredible powerhouse, gutsy lady, helped a lot of people and influenced me both for her determination and her guts and her willingness to say it.
And her spunk, and I'm glad to say that I knew her.
But I want people to know it's not like I was really good friends with her.
I mean, yeah, we were friends, but casual, you know.
Yes, I appreciate that.
Okay.
What about, is there anything you want to say about either David Jacobs or Bud Hopkins?
Oh, yeah.
Well, her...
Dave's caught flack, but Dave...
I think Dave's done a significant contribution.
I mean, he has his own views, you know.
And I respect that.
And...
I first met Dave, I did the, it'd be a long story, but I did the Montel Williams show once, talk show, and I met Dave on there, like he was a guest and I was a guest.
But we just hit it off, and I was so forthright, and my questions, I mean, my answers to Montel and stuff, that Dave was sitting next to me, and during breaks he went, wow, really, I'm glad you're out there talking.
And we just hit it off, and we had mutual respect ever since, and I have a tremendous amount of respect for him and what he's done for the field.
I don't know what to make of the recent attacks, but I feel like I know him well enough to know.
Anyways, I better leave that alone.
But I just...
I have tremendous respect for him.
What about Bud Hopkins, who has passed on?
Yeah, Bud...
I mean...
Bud was, you know, again, these guys have strong opinions.
Absolutely.
But Bud and his contribution to this field and what he's done for abdictees I would be hard-pressed to say there's an abductee out there that does not absolutely have complete respect for what Bud Hawkins did for the field and bringing this subject out and being...
I mean, I remember going to Whole Life Expos many years ago, and the first couple of times Bud was out there lecturing in any capacity about this.
And it was back even when I was first working with Deborah and I was questioning, you know, what I started to say earlier, too, with my working with Deborah Konkali, was thinking, I... I was losing my mind.
I sought the help of a psychotherapist because I was like, obviously, this isn't going on.
I need to find out what's going on.
I went to her and said, if you can't help me, send me to a psychiatrist because I didn't necessarily think that's what was going on.
And then Bud, I went and heard him at a whole life expo giving an initial talk about the typical symptoms and the markers and indicators for abduction.
And I was like, bam, bam, bam, bam.
And I went up to him, and I asked him some questions about it.
And he said, obviously you've had this happen.
And I go, well, I don't know.
And he said, well, you have all the ear markers for it.
And anyhow, he never regressed me.
But he regressed so many people I know, so many cases I've worked with.
So I know he was good at it.
What about the MyLab?
Was he familiar with that side of things?
Yeah.
Yes, and more open to talking about it on a private sense.
He had a public persona to educate the masses in general about abduction, to give evidence for it, to help people understand these people aren't crazy, and he fulfilled that role.
That was his role out there in ufology and the bigger community as well.
But he did have cases of it.
So many people I've worked with had regressions from him.
He regressed people over their MyLab experiences.
Angela Thompson-Smith had a military abduction while staying at Bud's apartment in New York, staying there to get regressions from him.
She had a military abduction from his apartment.
Anyway, so he was...
Aware of it, but guarded.
And that's why he said, I'm so glad you're out there talking about this, because then I don't have to.
That was his attitude.
But let me just say, because in a certain sense, the MyLab stories have been slower in coming out.
Yeah.
And I used to be mad at the research community for that.
I used to be mad at them because they held back on that stuff.
But, you know, John Mack and his conversations with me and stuff was like, Until I get a better handle on this, until I understand why.
But even John Mack was still having to put his head around that abductions were something physical, not just interdimensional.
He had his own belief system he was dealing with.
So then you take my labs and add that in his cases, and it just exploded his mind.
Right.
Luckily, I had this wonderful thing where I interviewed him with Danny Sheehan.
Danny Sheehan's a dear friend, thank God.
Thank you, Danny, for everything.
To have Danny there and that intellect and that mind and that understanding, who totally got it, and helping John to Get it and wrap his mind around.
And John's like...
But it took it to a level of...
I used to say, when I first started doing the My Life stuff and went public, not only was it from my own experiences, but a big part of my message, if you will, was how this is such strong evidence in support of alien abduction.
If alien abductions weren't real, why were all these people being targeted and having all this stuff happen?
And it meant that their alien abductions were absolutely real, that anyone in an intelligence or military community would care at all about what happened to them.
And John was still at that point of realizing this makes it so real.
This makes it so physical.
Because John was like, you know, I can handle with these alien abductions being interdimensional, but these are physical experiences with the military where people are being taken and abused and beat up and having threats to their life and having their computers hacked and their phones hacked and their mail hacked and their family members being threatened.
And John's like, what do I do with this?
And I said, John...
If this is real, of course that's happening.
I've always said that in my talk.
This has become a matter of national security because millions of people are having abductions by alien beings, off-world beings, and that's why it's become a matter of national security.
And John was like, oh my god, you're right, and boy am I glad you're talking about this so I don't have to.
Yeah, I mean, you know, what I want to say, though, is what happens is the military is implicated.
See, once they're implicated, then you have to get to a whole new paradigm of what is really going on.
And suddenly, they're not just observing the people that are having experiences with off-world beings.
They're suddenly participating and getting involved, treating them like experimental animals as a result of their experiences.
Well, even people in ufology still have a hard time with this idea of there's military and aliens working together.
Yes.
When, for the MyLab person, when you're taken to the underground base, the everyday activity of these people working together...
And it's like, come on, really?
Just can't we get over that?
All the insiders that have said, I personally sat there and interfaced with an ET on a daily basis.
I mean, let's just get over it.
It is a part of it.
They are working together.
We have to, especially when dealing with the disclosure subject, we've got to get over that or we aren't going anywhere with the disclosure subject.
Right.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Okay, well...
That's a whole other ball of wax to talk about how all this interfaces with why there's a policy of non-disclosure.
But it's a big part of it, and that's why we need to get over that.
Well, I mean, not to play the blame game, you see what I mean?
But this, for Camelot's point of view, is what we're always looking at is the big picture.
Why is something happening and where is it going?
Where are we going with this?
Where's the military going with this?
Well, and that's the question.
Are they using the abductees for information?
Are they integrating?
Are they the super soldiers?
And there's these programs where training people to interact on a daily basis with the abductees.
And you go back to the Balazar story, the Dan Burst, and you realize that's what I call super technicians.
Those were the first super soldiers.
They were interfacing with the ETs in those programs.
And Dan Sherman, being trained as a...
Oh, Dan Sherman.
I mean, here's a book about Black.
Talk about being ahead of the curve and ahead of time.
And I look back and I go, it all makes complete sense now.
But that story was somewhere out there because he was like the first one to do that.
Clifford Stone.
Oh, Clifford Stone.
Crash retrievals.
I mean, that's another thing, too.
You said about this and, you know, military-made background, intelligence, whatever, blah, blah, blah.
Like I said, the...
The secret society stuff, whatever.
And that became so prevalent in cases, but also my labs and these scenarios and super-soldier stuff Just like abductions, there's a genealogy.
It runs in families.
It's known in abduction research for many years.
Three, four, five generations in abduction research is now no big deal.
You're an abdictee, your parents were, their grandparents were, and your children are.
It's just that common.
Four generations is like constant.
We now know that too in the MyLab stuff.
It's generational.
It runs in families.
And then you realize, so you go back to the Clifford Stones.
You go back to the guys involved in Roswell.
And are their kids abductees in my labs now?
Hell yes!
You know, and you go back and you just go, wait a second.
You know, there's a history to this.
But that's what I'm saying.
Not only that, but actually in the intelligence community.
See, it happens without fail, it seems to me.
If I ask the question, whoever I'm talking to who's had exposures to ETs, to government, to military abductions, whatever it happens to be.
In other words, they have parents, family involved.
For example, you know, they have Illuminati if they're high-level Illuminati families.
Their kids have been experimented on, brought into the game early on.
Aerospace, military, industrial complex, it's all woven together.
If you're a member of Congress and you have a kid, this is where they don't realize.
If you're in the political game, you're targeted, you're part of the in-club.
Everyone I talk to, even the people that are coming forward about time travel right now, and this is a whole unexplored area, are really related.
In other words, this is interesting because when they chose their subjects, let's say somebody to mind control, somebody to follow a trajectory from very young age all the way through their career, put them into the military, recruit them, do whatever.
What happens is they've been tracking the children.
Absolutely.
And they go through family lines that are related because they know that's a known entity.
In other words, they have a soldier.
He's done a job for them.
And you have the genetics they want.
Right.
But this is the thing.
You come from the gene pool that makes you already able to do it.
But they've been following this for ages.
Yes, absolutely.
So this is the issue.
Absolutely.
That people have to bring on board.
Yeah, I mean, yeah.
Yeah, it's definitely a part of it and always has been, absolutely.
Yeah, and so it's not so hard for them to go, so-and-so works for me, let me look at their kid when they're born.
I don't know if you know Maria Talcott.
She worked with John Mack.
She was born in a hospital where her mother was...
Under the care of, like, this major sort of black ops psychiatrist or a psychologist, whatever.
I'm constantly piecing...
I mean, I'm sorry to cut you off, but it made me reflect on...
I'm constantly piecing even stuff going back in my life, that the more I learn about this, the more I realize...
I mean, the alien abduction stuff was back there, and I realized there were other levels of involvement.
It wasn't, like I was starting to say, you know, here in...
In 1990, I had my first MyLab experiences, blah, blah, blah.
And then I look back and I go, I think this goes back further in my life because there's other indicators and other stuff.
Right.
Well, in my own life, and this is the same thing, is that what I started to do is trace, well, what was my father doing?
He was in the military.
Why was I born in a military hospital?
Is this just a coincidence?
And you start following the trail.
And at the same time...
I think it's possible, and this is where it gets difficult.
There are things that are just coincidence.
You know, like when I first started doing the MyLab stuff and I said there was all this background with people being in the military, I realized we're talking about World War II and then Vietnam and everything, and everybody was.
So you go, that's not its indicator in itself.
No, it's not.
But when you start combining that with multiple things, it's like the MyLab cases and the abductees didn't just have one or two of the indicators.
They had a family member that now was in a military-industrial complex, had been in NASA before, that was in the military, or was Secret Society NASA and then later became military intelligence.
multiple things lining up.
Well, absolutely.
And this is the case.
In other words, you can keep seeing...
A lot of people, well, at least from where I find out, is that a lot of people start with the abductions.
In other words, their memories are more recent.
They don't go back to childhood necessarily first off.
They don't even look at family members to see if they're in the military.
What they do is they're coming forward because stuff has been happening to them over and over again and they start reporting on that.
And there's people who don't...
Explore beyond that one experience.
Right.
When, you know, it's known in abductions, that goes back from your childhood, it doesn't suddenly start happening to you when you're an adult.
Right.
Travis had it happen all his life.
I think he knows that now.
But, I mean, you know who really has exposed that?
Oh, this is just...
The Betty and Barney Hill story, Kathleen Martin, going back to how it runs in the family, how it had happened to them before, how they had my labs after the event and continued to until death.
I mean, Barney getting re-abducted by the military.
I was talking to Kathleen about this third.
Betty and Barney Hill were my lab cases and...
So they weren't a one-time abduction.
Right.
But get ufology to go, oh, wait a second.
Pulling teeth a piece here.
No, I'm just saying.
No, it's important.
It really is.
And because that's true.
Even the recent disclosure hearing, what they try to do is talk about a one-off experience.
Yeah.
You know, one crash that happened out of the blue in Roswell.
Well, it wasn't like that.
Yeah.
There was a whole history.
The military was interacting.
In fact, Douglas Dietrich was just talking.
We're talking 30 years of experience.
That program was in place which allowed that to happen.
When I say allowed to happen, I mean the way they knew how to recover it, keep it a secret, blah, blah, blah, is the policies were already in place.
Yes.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Well, and I think...
I had a Roswell witness.
Unfortunately, he's passed away, but I had a gentleman that I worked very closely with...
With the major Roswell researchers, with Don Schmidt, Tom Carey, and Stanton Friedman.
I think they pretty much accepted my guy was legit and everything.
Unfortunately, he didn't have any This whole story matched and added up, but it didn't contribute anything new to the story.
It was worth investigating because we kept thinking, we thought he had photographic evidence and stuff.
It turned out not really, but they were wonderfully helpful in it, and it's just another one of 300 first-hand witnesses.
It's just another one, which is not insignificant, but there was nothing new and no smoking gun, unfortunately.
But working with that gentleman and working with them, that Don Schmidt and Tom Carey and Stan know the bigger connection.
It's amazing how much more of this they get and they understand the relationships and a lot of their understanding is coming from working with all those people where this has been.
It pre-existed and it went on in their family and they know that.
Yeah, but this is something that has yet to come out, like, in the more, even the mainstream ufology community, is what I'm saying.
That's true.
They're still seeing some one-off experiences, one-off, you know, things that are going on.
Well, and people, and I've done this with my own research, too, so I understand.
In ufology, we all become specialists in a thing, because as you gain the respect, the recognition, and you're known for that.
Right.
Right.
And there's so much crossover that truth is most of the researchers are doing a lot of crossover work, but they're the specialists where this is the hat they're known for.
Sure.
Yeah.
But it's such a big picture, and there is, as I say, as you're saying, crossover.
And so what we get here at this conference, for example, is that crossover manifesting.
Well, I mean, what's so interesting here is it crossing over into the targeted individuals, crossing over into the mind control stuff, Crossing over into the time travel stuff and the super soldiers.
And you realize the ET, what remains interesting, people I think come to this conference who maybe have the more...
That conservative right-wing view of, you know what I mean, you know what I mean, kind of coming at it as a conspiracy follower or listening to those conspiracy radio shows, you know, whatever, whatever.
But it's interesting to see people have to grapple and come to terms with an ET equation, part of it.
Sure.
Because so often so many of those other subjects are seen as separate, yet there's an ET equation.
Yet anyone who's looked into the mind control thing for very long realizes how many of those mind control cases are also, my labs are also ET abductees.
You go back to Kathy O'Brien and blah, blah, blah, abductee.
But it's like to grapple with...
Bringing the ET part into the equation, it's interesting.
If anything, I think the ufology community is more accepting of the integration of this stuff than this other community is into the integration of that.
And yet you realize it's all interconnected.
I mean, and it goes back to...
The shadow government, the control information, the development of technology stuff, having such an ET component because of those crash retrievals, because of those programs, because of our technology advancements since the dawn of time.
And you can go into wearing this pin.
You can go into Giorgio Tsoukalos and the whole, you know, the whole ancient alien stuff and Von Dineken and etc., you know.
But that part, you go and you go, wait a second, this has always been there.
It's always been an influence.
Yes.
And it's been a part of it.
And it's always influenced mankind.
So that these other conspiracy subjects would eventually start to unravel and here'd be the alien thread.
Yes.
It's going to be there.
Yeah, absolutely.
It's always been a part of it.
Well, yeah, ancient archaeology is a whole other sort of subject, seemingly, and yet the thread goes back, because as I had to talk about, I had to actually bring Atlantis into the equation on my talk, is because ultimately people have to understand there's a through line in history that goes back.
And we have been, you know, we're in a state of forgetfulness.
And our memory goes back only so far.
And even our history has been rewritten, of course, by the victors, right?
And so this is all part of the problem.
And, you know, there's much more to the story.
Yeah.
And I think, you know, it's so important to...
Have the open mind to consider all the possibilities and stuff.
It doesn't mean all of them are right, but at least consider it, bring it in, look at it.
Does this fit?
Where do I plug this in?
If it doesn't, put it on the back burner.
Because there's such an interrelationship.
There is.
And then the artificial intelligence.
What I'm noticing is that a lot of people were willing to consider the machine reality, but they didn't want to go to the AI side of it.
And that's a really big growing component that people need to look at.
And it's fascinating how...
Of course, the drones are starting to bring that in in sort of a more mainstream way.
For a long time in my research, I really tried...
You know, for 20 years to sidestep the involvement of even the mind control stuff in it.
And then when I realized, well, how are they suppressing the memory and how are they able to conduct this?
Well, it's, you know, mind control 101 procedures that they're using with fear, drug, hypnosis, intimidation, you know.
And technology, you know, that they're using.
And I'm like, okay, I couldn't ignore it anymore.
But I'm not a mind-controller.
I come to a conference like this because this is where I come to learn about that stuff because I admit that's not my area of expertise or knowledge.
I don't know.
And I don't wish to become a researcher in that, but I want to know how it fits with what I do research.
Again, it's kind of...
I admit, I'm...
Yes, am I doing this to help others?
I'm out there to make a difference and to educate and change.
Yeah, sure, we always said that.
But I totally admit, this is still about me trying to figure out what's going on with me and what have I been through.
And ultimately what drives me is coming to terms with my own experiences.
Fair enough.
Well, I think this is a good place to call this a day.
And go back to the conference itself.
But thank you so much, Melinda.
You're welcome.
Anytime.
And a great conversation.
I've always applauded what you've done.
I've been a big fan of Camelot for a long time.
Thank you.
I mean, just to have a resource to bring out this information and to support the whistleblowers and support the insiders and understand those complexities, you know, I think this has been a tremendous resource.
Certainly within ufology, but even in the grander picture, and I've applauded it for a long time, so I'm honored to be interviewed by you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Okay, and likewise to you, because your work is very valuable, and I want to draw attention to it.
Well, and I try to also, well, I said it's very self-centered, and it is, but I'm also always about helping people who have had the experiences and trying to be a place and a resource where people who've had these experiences know there's someone they can talk to about it.
Absolutely.
And that's always been there for me.
Wonderful.
All right.
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