I can't help but longing, I'll feel when he's gone.
Carrie Cassidy, Project Camelot Whistleblower Radio, and we are going to be having a fascinating guest this evening.
Her name is Gwyneth Todd, and she is a whistleblower, and although she actually is Going to be coming from kind of a different direction than we normally come from, so it'll be a lot of fun to talk to her and get her perspective on all sorts of things going on in the world today.
And I have pasted her bio, actually a couple versions of her bio, on the front page of Project Camelot.
So if you just go to ProjectCamelot.org or ProjectCamelotPortal.com or ProjectCamelot.tv, any of those will take you to our front page and then scroll down and you'll see her bio there.
Gwyneth, are you with us?
Okay.
I guess they're going to try to reach her.
I did just talk to her, so I know that we're going to be having her Connecting shortly, there shouldn't be a problem with that.
Hopefully, actually, I'm going out over the air right now.
But at any rate, I will say that Gwyneth is the highest, well, a very high level of government operative.
Gwyneth, are you there?
Hello?
Okay, got some interesting dynamics going on already.
Hello?
Wow.
Okay.
Am I on the air?
Okay.
I don't know.
I think maybe we just lost her there.
Well, of course, this is totally normal for Project Camelot, which she will not know.
I highly doubt that she has any idea what Project Camelot is all about.
So that's going to be a very interesting dynamic as well.
At this moment, I really don't know if I'm on the air or I'm not, so I'm just going to pretend that I am.
Hello?
Okay, someone in the background here is telling me I'm live, so that at least is a good sign.
Hi, how are you?
Fine, thanks.
How are you?
Can you hear me?
Yes, now I can.
Wow, it's just being a little strange already, but hopefully this is going to stay a good connection the rest of the time.
Yes, well unfortunately they tend to cut things off, so if we do get cut off, just I'll keep trying back, because they do it periodically.
Okay, well then we've both got the same problem.
First of all, I was just going to try to read your bio over the air, but We could cut to the chase.
I've actually referred people to the bio that I pasted on my front page on my blog.
And it's got quite a bit of information about you.
And what I'd like to do is get you to talk about yourself before anything else.
So I'm hoping this is a good enough connection.
And I'm not sure if you have a telephone number, just in case we do get cut off, could you type your telephone number into Skype for the engineer?
And that way, if worse comes to worse, I know they're not going to love that idea, but if they have to call Australia, they will.
Okay, no problem.
I'll just do that right now.
Okay.
Wonderful.
In the meantime, if you would like to give your own background that could complement what is the traditional background for you, specifically from your point of view as you're sort of seeing your past now, it might be very interesting to hear you sort of classify yourself.
Absolutely.
I'll do my best.
Sorry, I was talking while you were saying that.
Well, my name is Gwyneth Todd, obviously, and I grew up in a diplomatic family.
So I grew up all around the world and speak a number of languages.
I speak French, Spanish, Turkish and Arabic, and as well as English.
And in my family tradition, I went into public service after I got my master's degree.
In international relations and Arabic.
And from there I joined the government.
I joined the government 10 days after the invasion of Kuwait by Iraq back in 1990.
And I was put in charge for the army as a civilian of helping with logistical supplies for the Saudi Arabian National Guard, which is a Bedouin force.
That does not at all deal with women.
And I was in charge of stinger missile sales, chemical defense equipment and medical equipment.
So it was an interesting time because I got to Saudi Arabia and and I was the second woman in the headquarters after Margaret Thatcher.
And I, they had to deal with me because I had the stuff they really needed in order to fight the first Gulf War.
So I would pretend I didn't speak Arabic, but while these people were just going back and forth, just tearing their hair out, they had to deal with a woman.
It was sort of amusing.
And after that, I went over, right after the war, I went over to work at the Pentagon for, at the time, Secretary of Defense Cheney, and Undersecretary of Defense Wolfowitz, Paul Wolfowitz.
And I was put on the Iraq desk, or Iraq and Kuwait, and I went out to Kuwait for a few months after the war to help them do a study to rebuild their military and figure out how they could possibly stop future attacks as best as possible.
And I also got involved in the initial side of the inspections in Iraq as they were looking for weapons of mass destruction.
And so the whole composition of the teams and the first few inspections, standoffs, it was always a fascinating time.
And basically, they weren't coming up with much.
One day in late 1991, I'd say, I was called up into an office.
Somebody said, the secretary called and said, there's a meeting on Iraq, you should be in here.
And I walked in and there was a guy there who didn't work Iraq, he worked on Turkey, actually.
And there was Wolf Witz, they were already talking, and there was another man, and I looked at him, and I thought, he looks awfully familiar.
Who is that guy?
And it suddenly hit me that he was a guy named Ahmad Chalabi, who I'd seen on 60 Minutes about a year earlier, because he was wanted for embezzling tens of millions of dollars.
And practically destroying the Jordanian economy.
And he'd been tried and convicted in absentia.
And there was an Interpol warrant out for his arrest.
And I'd just seen the warrant that morning.
It had come in through our message traffic.
And here he was sitting in the Pentagon, having a meeting with the Undersecretary.
And my jaw dropped, but I was in no place to say anything.
And I listened, and I listened as assurances were made that we would get rid of Saddam, and that this Ahmad Chalabi character would be the next head of Iraq.
And it was quite horrifying to hear.
As everyone left, I pulled aside the guy who'd set this up, and I said, what's going on here?
And he said, oh, it's great, you know, Ahmad Chalabi's here, and And he's going to be the new president of Iraq, and it's going to be wonderful.
And I said, the man is a criminal.
I said, there's an Interpol warrant out for him.
He shouldn't be in the Pentagon.
And the guy said to me, oh, Ahmad knows all about that warrant.
It's all a misunderstanding.
He's a great guy.
He's got a really nice house in Georgetown.
And we like him.
And I pushed further.
I said, look, I don't think you understand this.
This guy, his whole family was hated before Iraq became for the revolution in 1958.
And this particular gentleman said to me, well, no, no, no, no, no.
They were a very popular family.
And I said, no.
Basically, I studied Iraq in depth.
There were about six major landowning families and the Chalabi's were one, the Talabani's were another.
He's president of Iraq right now.
The Pashaji's were another.
He was the first president of Iraq that we had there after the war.
And Barzani.
These are the names that stand out if you look at the land holding charts back in the 1950s.
And when the revolution occurred in 1958 in Iraq, these guys were actually chased out.
And I read one place where when Ahmad Chalabi's uncle died, apparently the villagers partied for three days as a celebration because they hated him so much.
So the idea of bringing him back was insane because he would His whole family was part of the reason why Iraq went the way it did in the first place.
And I was told, no, you don't understand anything.
The Iraqis love this man.
And he's got all his family supporters from, you know, generations.
And they're just waiting for him to come back.
And he's Shiite, but he's secular and he'll be perfect.
There was nothing I could say.
I figured I'd better just shut up and we'll watch what happened.
Well, what happened was that Clinton won the next election and Wolfowitz and Cheney were out.
So we got a little bit of breathing space.
I took a couple of years away from the Middle East working on first in South America.
I was involved in part of the Pablo Escobar stuff, and various other international, I mean, interesting and scary stuff.
And then in 1994, I took her as the Turkish desk officer.
And I speak Turkish, obviously, and I get along very well with the Turkish people and their military.
So I had a lot of success in that job.
And it gave me direct access to the Secretary of Defense.
And I was basically acknowledged as the person to go to if you wanted to talk about terrorism.
And as such, they brought me over to the White House.
And there I was The only person I think who had two directorates.
I was working in the European directorate handling Turkey, Cyprus and Spain and Portugal.
And then I was working in the Near East office on Iran, Iraq and Libya.
And eventually in 1998, I finally dropped the Turkish account.
On the European side, because they just couldn't do it all.
And we were focused very heavily on Iraq and Libya and Iran.
On my watch, first we had the deal cut with the Lockerbie bombers, with Qaddafi.
Where they would be tried in the Scottish court and there would be no accountability.
And I had to deal with the victims' families.
I was the liaison.
And they were just being sold out by our government.
And it's just one of the most depressing experiences I've ever gone through.
Okay.
Sorry, sorry, just want to interject here and thank you.
I love it that you're going to, you know, going through all of this because you have such a varied background and I want people to really understand where you're coming from before we kind of go deeper into the rabbit hole with you.
But this situation with Lockerbie, are you also aware of the book on Lockerbie that was released by Coleman?
No, I've read Cohen.
Do you mean Cohen or Coleman?
Coleman.
No, the books I have are the ones written by Susan and Dan Cohen, whose daughter was killed on the aircraft.
Okay, because there was quite a covert operation going on in the background.
I am aware of what you're talking about.
That did not come up at the time.
Uh-huh.
I was aware of it at the time it happened because my father was at the State Department.
A number of his colleagues were supposed to be on that airplane.
And they missed the flight.
Ah.
And my father was not intelligence.
He was State Department.
But a lot of these other guys were.
There was something very fishy there.
There were just too many key people who were supposed to be on that plane and who conveniently missed it.
So I was aware, you know, way back before I ever joined the government that something was very wrong on the Lockerbie explanation as to what it was about, who was behind it.
Initially, and I followed it sort of loosely over the years, but until I actually got involved with the families, I didn't realize the extent to which our government had changed its story, refused to acknowledge people.
One, I mean, it's absolutely unbelievable.
I went to a meeting in which the At the State Department, when I was at the White House, one of the agenda items was, how do we discredit the families of the victims so that we can do what we want?
These are American citizens.
I mean, it was, in my opinion, it was high treason.
Okay.
Yeah.
Well, you're certainly in a position to have known some background with this story.
Okay, we'll be right back with Gwyneth Todd.
Todd, thank you.
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This is Keri Cassidy, Project Camelot, Whistleblower Radio, and we're talking to Gwyneth Todd.
We've got a different connection with her this time around, and hopefully it's going to work a little better.
Gwyneth, are you there?
Okay, because you were kind of fading in and out, at least at my end, so this is much more stable of a connection, so hopefully we can kind of progress from here.
So we were basically covering Lockerbie just briefly in your trajectory, and although I'd love to go down into that in a lot of detail.
I know, we'll move on, absolutely.
We really should move on because we've got so much more to cover here, so continue in your story.
Continuing quickly, the other two issues I was working on were Iran, which meant interacting regularly with the Israeli lobby representatives in Washington.
APAC is the name of the lobby.
And there, President Clinton had decided that he wanted to open up ties with Iran, if possible, and improve ties.
And the Israelis did not want us to improve ties.
So one of my jobs was to go out and find out what the Israeli lobby was going to do to sabotage our efforts.
And they were having lunch with me because they wanted to find out what we were going to do to warm up to Iran.
And it was sort of cat and mouse game.
And then finally, with the whole Monica Lewinsky scandal and the mess, I found myself Well, shortly after the impeachment process, actually, I'm being tasked to arrange an attack on Iraq, which was Operation Desert Fox.
And it's very, very hard to deal with that sort of thing when you're tasked to do it.
It made absolutely no sense and had no goals that it was very strategic until it was just, in my opinion, And at the end of all that, we're now well into 1999, and Sandy Berger, who was our National Security Advisor, had said that he wanted to prepare a policy to remove Saddam.
And I quit the government at that point.
I went into the private sector, where I worked consulting for a few years.
But in 2001, January, I was approached at one of Bush's three inaugural dinners.
And for the record, no, I did not vote for Bush.
I was invited by somebody else.
Gwyneth, we're having trouble hearing you again.
Is it possible, you've just gotten kind of muted.
Are you able to back off from the receiver of the phone, or what's going on with that?
I don't know.
Can you hear me better now?
Yeah.
Messing with the communication.
Yes.
Can you hear me better now?
I can right now, yes.
Okay, let's try this.
Richard Perle, who is one of the architects of the rock world, came and asked me if I wanted to come and work for the Pentagon, because he said, you know what we're going to do in Iraq, and we need like-minded people.
That was something that blew alarm bells off everywhere.
And I went out of my way, as soon as I left that center, to warn people that we were going to go to war in Iraq in January of 2001.
And nobody believed it.
And slowly I watched them building the case behind the scenes.
I was no longer in the government, but I was watching them trying to get people ginned up on Saddam or Mosul.
And they were at odds with Richard Clarke, who wanted control of the whole situation and wanted to focus on Afghanistan.
And this battle was going on.
So when September 11th happened, in September of 2001, Richard Clarke suddenly had the upper hand.
And the quote-unquote neocons who wanted to get into Iraq And we've got a debate to change the regime in Iran.
We're going off course.
And within weeks after the Afghanistan operation started, Paul Wolfowitz came out talking about how we should redirect our ships.
When our forces are coming back, we should stop them in Iraq on the way to remove Saddam.
So, actually, September 11th was a setback for the people who wanted the war in Iraq.
And it took them almost two years to get things back on track where they wanted it, and that was invading Iraq.
And during that time, still nobody really believed who I said that we were going to go in.
And then, by the time we did go in, People were convinced that there were weapons of mass destruction there, and that there was a reason to go in.
And it was complete stumping.
There was absolute inertia to it.
I knew that.
But people would not listen, because it seemed so impossible that our government would lie and set the scale.
After everything went to hell in Iraq, basically, I was called by a friend in the Air Force's U.S.
Navy in Bahrain.
And I flew out there.
I met with the Admiral in charge out there.
And he said, look, I'm worried about what's happening with Iran.
Are these guys in Washington, the Bush administration, going to try to force us into a war with Iran?
And the best way to do it is to get the Iranian Navy ships
And so I was brought out as a private contractor to provide force protection and political advice and also to make very sure that there were no false flag operations conducted or that there were no intentionally irritating operations conducted that would
and caused Giovanni and the shooter that was in our war.
And I did that.
I arrived in January 2005, and I was signed until February of 2007 when a new admiral came out.
And his name was Kevin Carpenter.
And I'd known him at the White House when he was a captain.
And he did not appear to like me.
which didn't matter, but still, wow.
Uh, when he came out, he said that his agenda was going to be to crack down on Iran.
And do everything he could to make sure that, uh, we, basically, push Iran back.
Not, not to get off the lawn, though.
To me and my colleagues.
And over the next few months, We tried a couple of strategies that didn't work.
And then finally, in May of 2007, we had a meeting in which we announced that we were going to build three aircraft carriers, block all the ships around them into the Gulf, and not notify our allies in the Gulf in advance.
This is something, you don't have to notify anyone, but when you're dealing with a sensitive political situation, normally you do.
And the State Department was about to enter into talks with Iran over what was happening in Iraq, and they would definitely not want their talks at that level attempted.
So, we were told not to call the State Department.
Not to call anyone else.
Because even though all this stuff can be found and they're looking for it, most people don't watch shit movements and see where we're going.
To assess this for local commanders.
So I called Washington, I called the State Department on a secure line, and I told an authorized individual what was being signed.
And, at that point, I hung up the phone.
At that point, everything went into motion in America, and all our allies were notified, and even the Iranians were notified that this was not a death threat or the start of a war.
And the Admiral was serious.
He was absolutely riveted that his whole plan had gone down the drain.
And on May 23rd, the day that we get the candidate, he called me into his office early in the morning.
First time ever.
And he asked me to take notes while he talked to the Saudis.
And it was a very strange attempt.
I sat there, I took notes.
And then I got up and walked out, and standing there were two FBI agents.
They said, here, you know, the animal's given us an offer to do an interview with you.
And I said, yes.
And I went in expecting them to drill me about, well, I figured Iran, but no, instead they came back and they were drilling me about my daughter's father.
And they said that he had violated sanctions against Iran, and that they wanted me to cooperate with them.
And I explained I really had no idea that what sanctions he might have violated.
The reason I knew about the people's hearing was completely approved by the highest levels of the government, but I didn't know very much.
So I invited him to my house.
I said, you can take my computers.
I'll go off very slowly.
I don't know what's going on, but I don't think anything's going on, but take my computers and give them back when they're done.
Which they didn't.
But it was no coincidence that the FBI was standing in the landlord's office right outside on the very day that he called me in to sit there for that phone call.
Absolutely.
Okay.
Um, Gwyneth, I'm sorry to say this, but we're still having trouble with the sound.
Is this a landline?
There is.
There are no landlines where I am.
Ah, okay.
All right.
Yeah, I guess maybe if you talk a little slower, people might be able to... I'm getting a lot of reports of people not being able to hear you and understand.
I mean, we can hear the sound of your voice, but what happens is the words themselves are being muffled.
It's so frustrating because I so much want to talk with you.
And I've gotten some of what you've said, but I really have to apologize at my end.
I don't know what people have been able to grasp, the ones that are listening.
I know I have a, you know, a fair audience here.
So I know people will want to hear what you have to say.
I'll try to speak more slowly if you think that will help.
Yes, I do think it'll help.
At this moment, like when you're not telling your story, it's clear.
It's the minute you start going into your story, and I know that they are messing with us, so this is probably not your fault, but we have to work with the situation we've got here.
Okay.
Would you like, is there anything that I can go back You'd like me to reiterate?
What I think I'll do is maybe go for short questions and shorter answers and hopefully try to see if that'll be intelligible.
At this moment, if you could explain, as a woman, you obviously had to deal with Saudi Arabia.
I've spent a fair amount of time in the Middle East myself.
I am very comfortable there, and I understand that you can become comfortable.
You know, there is an interesting relationship, especially with American women.
Assuming you get sort of on the right side of things with the men that you encounter, things can go very well.
You can even get into a situation of privilege, if you kind of understand what I'm talking about.
And I just wonder if you found, and you keep referring to being on a desk, what is this assignment?
Because I've heard this reference used when we talk about an agent, like a CIA agent, but you were not an agent.
You were working for officially, well, the U.S.
government at one point, and certain admirals, I understand.
Would you say you were in the ploy of the Navy?
Well, initially I was a civil servant employee of the Pentagon, Department of Defense.
Then I was detailed over to the White House, but my salary was still paid by the Pentagon.
And then I was hired as a contractor for the U.S.
Navy when I was in Bahrain.
I never worked for any intelligence agency.
By desk, intelligence analysts feed their information to policy makers.
The policy makers are the desks, so to speak.
So, intelligence analysts are not supposed to make policy or drive policy, they're supposed to report what they see.
And then it goes to somebody like me to interpret.
And we do that on an interagency basis with many different groups involved, people involved, to come up with our policies.
Thank you.
Thank you.
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Okay, this is this is Carrie Cassidy, Project Camelot, Whistleblower Radio, and we're talking to Gwyneth Todd, or trying to,
And we did have a bit more of luck just at the end there.
Gwyneth, are you back?
I'm back.
Okay, so we're going to continue on in this way.
I think the sound was better when we get you to talk a little slower and also try to do sort of a Q&A where you can have time to sort of enunciate as clearly as possible.
I apologize to the listeners for the difficulties we've been having.
I do too.
Sorry about that.
OK, so so at this moment, what I was asking you was was kind of you were beginning to describe how the relationship between analysts and policymakers, et cetera, and you're you're actually your various titles where you were sort of tasked out of.
You don't consider yourself, I assume you don't consider yourself an analyst.
You don't sound like a policymaker.
What would you classify yourself as at that time?
Policy advisor.
Okay.
Go ahead.
I would go through the intelligence.
And I would also go through all open source material.
I would use my own knowledge of the region and my own contacts, and then I would draft papers that would go to the President for decisions.
And generally, my recommendations were adopted.
Okay.
So, and this was during the time when you were dealing with the Iran situation, or all the time, or at what points?
Well, that was when I worked for the government and worked on Iran, Iraq, Libya, Turkey, South America.
When I went over in 2005 to the island of Bahrain in the Persian Gulf, I was advising a three-star Admiral who's in charge of all the naval forces between Afghanistan and Somalia.
And he reported to the four-star in charge of Central Command, who right now is General Mattis, James Mattis.
General Mattis was before in charge of all the marine forces in Iraq and he's a brilliant and legendary general and I would also advise him privately when he came to Bahrain about the culture and what was really going on on the ground as opposed to what was being said Okay.
When you say information controlled by the Bush White House, are you saying you were advising him about that information or you were limited by that information?
Whitehouse, are you saying you were advising him about that information or you were limited by that information?
I was advising him where that information was wrong.
Okay.
So back in the early part of this discussion, you talked about going into a meeting in which you met Chalabi, and you gave sort of a rundown to the person at the end of the meeting of your opinion based on what you knew of Chalabi and how he would be received.
And yet the person at the other end, I don't remember what his name is, but he...
He apparently just discounted what you had to say.
Was this because it was earlier in your career, or was this person in a position where they felt they knew more than you?
This person, whose name I can't say, but I can give you enough information to look at it.
Well, let me just say, are we talking about Richard Clark?
No we're not.
Okay.
Richard Clarke did not want to go into Iraq.
Richard Clarke wanted to go into Afghanistan.
Paul Wolfowitz wanted to go into Iraq.
And Richard Clarke and Paul Wolfowitz were not on the same page.
Okay, what about Pearl?
What about Pearl?
Pearl was with Wolfowitz, not Clark.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Richard Clark and Richard Pearl are two egos who cannot crash.
I mean, who clash completely rather.
I mean, they do not get along very well.
Okay, but you were brought in originally by Pearl, were you not?
No.
I was actually, I was recruited by Pearl in January 2001.
to come and help start the war that they'd wanted to start ten years earlier in Iraq.
But I politely said I'd call him and then never did and went out and tried to stop the war that I knew he was planning.
And everybody thought I was insane.
Well why didn't they, why didn't he like make a move to get you fired if he knew you were working against him?
Well, at that point in 2001, I wasn't working for the government.
I was a private consultant working for a couple of companies, actually.
I was working for a Turkish billionaire, doing energy and other advice, and then also I was working on various modifications for what are called shelters, containers.
So that you have some mobility and can move buildings different places quickly.
So, when Richard Clark came up to me, not Richard Clark, Richard Pearl came up to me in January of 2001.
He had no power over me.
I did not work for the government.
He asked me to come and work for the government.
And he specifically said, This is what we want you to do, and that is help us tell the American public on invading Iran.
And I haven't spoken to Richard Perle since that night, but I did go out and speak to a lot of people who should have listened and didn't.
Okay, so just to fast forward, you're in this meeting and this is what year?
Did you say 2004?
With Chalabi?
Uh, yes.
The meeting with Chalabi was ten years earlier, 1991.
Oh.
This whole Iraq war was planned in 1991, under Cheney.
I see.
whole Iraq war was planned in 1991 under Cheney.
I see.
When Clinton was elected in 1992, Wolfowitz and all his guys were gone.
And suddenly, they had no ability to start a war with Iraq.
But the night before George Bush II took over, as I said, I was at a dinner.
And I ran into Richard Perle and the first thing he said, this was less than 24 hours before Bush took the oath of office in 2001.
Come and work for Paul Wolfowitz at the Pentagon.
We need like-minded people so that we can carry out what we need to do in Iraq.
This whole thing with Iraqis and saying, I can't stress enough.
Was planned back in the early 90s.
Okay, but why did he think?
I mean, I'm actually curious how these people perceived you.
That's kind of the road I'm going down.
I find this very interesting, your role as a woman in this arena and also, you know, how these men are perceiving you.
So basically, you're telling me that Richard Perle in 2001 saw you as a like-minded person.
That's right.
Okay, and did you simply sort of let him believe that?
Yes.
Okay, and because it suited your career?
No.
Unless you want to make waves, if you want to know what's happening, you need to be able to be in the room and hear.
I didn't have to do anything.
All you have to do is nod and listen.
I see.
If you want access, then Don't let people know what your opinions are.
Okay, so they didn't know your opinions at that point.
Somewhere on the line, as you say, you worked against their sort of agenda.
Surely they must have become aware of you at that point.
Oh yeah, I think they probably did, yes.
I still tried to stay very far under the radar.
But it got worse, because in 2001, not only was I trying to warn people about what was going to happen with Iraq, but the FBI approached me, and they asked me if I would help them find this guy in the Pentagon, or somewhere in the government,
Who was passing information to the Israeli lobby.
Right, okay, this is a whole steep thing.
We're coming up on another break.
Very sorry to interrupt you here.
We'll be right back with Gwyneth Todd.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Just give it some truth now I've had I've had enough of reading things by neurotic, psychotic, big-headed politicians.
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Assassination.
You know what's interesting about assassination?
Well, not only does it change those popularity polls in a big hurry, But it's also interesting to notice who it is we assassinate.
Do you ever notice who it is?
Stop to think of who it is we kill.
It's always people who've told us to live together in harmony and try to love one another.
Jesus, Gandhi, Lincoln, John Kennedy, Bobby Kennedy, Martin Luther King, Medgar Evers, Malcolm X, John Lennon.
They all said try to live together peacefully.
BAM!
Right in the f***ing head.
Apparently we're not ready for that.
Yeah, that's difficult behavior for us.
We're too busy thinking around, sitting around trying to think of ways to kill each other.
Here's one we came up with.
It's efficient too.
Genocide.
You know?
Killing large numbers of people simply because they don't look like you, they don't talk like you, and they don't have the same kind of hats you do.
You ever notice that anytime you see two groups of people who really hate each other?
Chances are good they're wearing different kind of hats.
Keep an eye on that, it might be important.
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Okay, this is Carrie Cassidy, Project Camelot.
The power of the ancient Lord.
With the Blower Radio, and we're talking to Gwyneth Todd.
Gwyneth, right before the break, you were talking about how you were more or less sort of violating orders.
I guess you could call it violating orders.
Is that how you would view it?
In 2001, I was a private citizen, so I was simply exercising, I felt, my right to expose what had been told to me in a public forum by Richard Perle.
No one was listening, but I was fine.
At that same time, The FBI approached me shortly after and they asked me if I would help find who was flying for Iran in the U.S.
government and who was passing that information to the Israeli lobby which is known as APEC.
I was in a unique position because I knew personally As a quote, friend, as well as from all my working in the White House and Pentagon, their policy director, a guy named Steve Rosen.
And they came to me and they said, you're the only person we know who knows this man personally and from your former job in the government.
We know he has a contact We need to know who it is.
Can you help us?
And I said, I don't know.
Because I'm not going to take any money from you.
And I'm not going to sign any agreements with you.
But if I can find an excuse to talk to him, I will find out what I can.
And if I find out anything interesting, I will tell you.
Because I felt this Whole Israeli trying to drive us into war with Iran, even back then, was just, that's going to be a disaster.
Okay, and I, and you, so you, you went out with Steve Rosen.
I listened to several of your interviews in preparation to this, uh, for this interview.
And is that right?
And, and so I wanted to, uh, basically kind of cut to the chase here.
Did you discover who his contact was?
Yes, we did.
I did.
I did with the help of a journalist.
Okay, and what was your job?
But what was your job during the time when you were actually sort of going out with Steve Rosen?
I was acting as a consultant for a Turkish billionaire.
Okay.
I was helping him negotiate a legal dispute with a major Washington law firm.
And I'm not a lawyer, but I was just there as a negotiator, and he and I were very close, and it was fine.
So I didn't have a day job, so to speak.
Okay, you and, I'm sorry, you and Steve Rosen were close?
No, I'm sorry, me and the billionaire were close.
Okay, okay.
I just want to get things, the story straight here.
Okay, so what happened?
Are you able to name the source at this point or not?
Which source?
That became Steve Rosen's source.
Yes, it's all over the papers.
His name was Larry Franklin.
Okay, and what was his position?
He was working in the Pentagon, side-by-side with the man who had arranged the meeting with Ahmad Chalabi in 1991.
Okay.
His name was Larry Franklin, not the guy in 1991, but the contact for Steve Rosen.
And he was the contact in the government that was working with the Israeli lobby?
Yeah, he was caught red-handed with documents in his hand classified about Iran going to meet Steve at a restaurant in Virginia.
Okay.
They nabbed him in the restaurant.
Alright, so... At that point, you were working with the FBI on that?
Yes, but I was not getting paid.
I wasn't even being reimbursed.
I understand.
Okay, so...
I had no restrictions on what I could say or do.
I understand.
Later on, you ended up being assigned to Bahrain?
I was asked to come out there by the Admiral at the time because he suddenly realized that if somebody didn't stand up and do something, we were going to be at war with Iran.
And Israel was going to drag us into that war.
And the Bush administration was going to drag us into that war.
And I guess it's hard to find anybody as idiotic as I am willing to risk their life to do this sort of thing.
Okay, when you say that, in other words, how were you risking your life?
In what kind of context?
Can you describe it?
Yes.
When you go up against Israel, you often wind up dead.
Okay.
I believe it.
That's happened, you know, or was it about 18 months ago?
I think in Dubai, if you recall, there was a killing.
There are a lot of people who wind up dead when they go up against Israel.
Anything to do with stopping war with Iran is viewed by the hawks.
And I don't mean all the Israeli people.
Most of the Israeli people are normal.
Like, normal Americans.
Talking about the wackos who run the government, usually.
When you go up against them, you usually wind up in jail or dead.
Okay, so you were asked by this Admiral, and what's the Admiral's name?
David Nichols.
Okay, and he wanted you to come to Bahrain and do what?
To act as a force protection advisor, in other words, security advisor, and also as a political advisor, telling the truth about what was happening on the street, As opposed to what was coming in through official channels.
And that way he could make an informed decision and not allow things to happen that could be misinterpreted as war by Iran or anyone else.
Okay, and what year was this?
This was in 2004.
I was invited out.
I arrived there in 2005, January.
All right.
And how long did you stay?
I stayed for three years.
Okay.
And was it during this time that you were, um, I don't know, uh, turned into a, a whistleblower or, or, or call, you know, because I'm, if I was to quote Kevin Barrett, who interviewed you, he said you violated direct orders by alerting loyal officials in the state department, stopping a false flag.
You know, situation in his tracks?
Yes.
That is exactly what happened.
Okay.
Go ahead.
For two years, the Bush administration banged their head against the wall on people like Richard Perle, because they could not get the admirals out there, do what they wanted, to start a war with Iran.
Are we in a similar situation now would you say?
Now we have a very good guy there who does not want war.
Okay.
But in basically very early 2007 Bush and Wolfowitz and Cheney and these guys knew they only had really about a year window To start a war with Iran before the presidential election process began.
So they pulled out the admiral who was there in charge.
And this was a new admiral.
His name was Patrick Walsh.
Great guy.
Worked very hard with me on making sure that nobody started a war with Iran.
They pulled him back to Washington and promoted him.
And they sent out Admiral Cosgrove.
And they also put in Admiral Fallon as the head of Central Command.
Now everybody who's heard of Fallon mostly has heard of him because in 2008 he got fired for saying that he was against war with Iran.
Right.
Everything I saw Up until that point, he was pushing for war with Iran like you can't believe.
And I have to believe, in my own heart, that the reason why he gave that interview, saying that he was against war with Iran in March 2008, is he realized that he needed to cover himself.
Because Obama was going to win, and the truth might come out eventually.
That kind of false flag operation that had been being planned while he was in charge.
Okay, thank you for that.
That's very interesting.
It was a very crafty piece of PR work.
But those of us who knew just could not believe that he would have the audacity to tell Acquire magazine that he was against war with Iran.
Just the opposite.
Okay, I'm sorry to do this departure here, but on the same, along those lines, is it your understanding that Dempsey is against war or for it?
He's against it, absolutely.
Okay, go ahead with the story.
We're very lucky at this one moment in time, right now, we've got people who are We've got General Mattis in Florida.
We've got Admiral Miller in Bahrain.
We've got General Dempsey in Washington.
And we've got Barack Obama.
And whatever you may think of him, he is not taking orders from the Israelis, and it's really upsetting the Israelis.
But this is the first time I've seen such a stand of unity against Israeli pressure.
And the pressure is tremendous, as you're seeing.
Okay, yes.
And we can go down that road in a minute.
But let's continue with this story here, so that we can get to the root of how you got... I don't know if it was fired overtly, or what the situation.
Okay.
As I was trying to say earlier, you may have... In May of 2007, Admiral Cosgris And Admiral Fallon tried to bring three aircraft carriers into the Gulf, Persian Gulf, at the same time, without telling anyone in advance.
And while people could look and see for themselves where the ships were going, that's very different.
Most people don't look.
The idea was that if we suddenly sailed in all these huge ships, the Iranians might panic and shoot at us.
In planning this operation, I was told not to talk to anybody at the State Department or even the Pentagon about it.
I left the meeting and I called the State Department and I told them all about it.
And they ruined the operation.
Okay.
I'm sorry.
Was it for this that you then were fired?
No, I wasn't fired.
It was the same day that the ships crossed.
Suddenly the FBI showed up in my office.
Okay, but I thought you were in Bahrain.
I was.
In my office in Bahrain.
And they showed up in Bahrain?
Yeah.
Two agents I didn't know.
The Admiral lent them an office and they grilled me for hours.
And they were going after, nothing to do with Iran, they were going after my daughter's father.
This is a personal attack.
I'm sorry, they were going after your daughter's father.
And why?
Because he was paying child support.
He and I were never married.
He was working on issues with Sudan for the U.S.
government, but as a private citizen.
And I don't know what he... I mean, my relations with him are very bad, personally.
But whatever he was doing, I still don't think it was illegal.
I think he was told to do it.
But they knew that was a vulnerable spot.
So they thought that they could force me back to America by dragging, filing charges against him, making me a material witness, or even charging me as an accomplice or a conspirator to bring me back to the States and shut me up and get me out of Bahrain.
Because I couldn't be fired for calling the State Department.
Because that was not illegal, and it was not a violation of my contract.
But they wanted me gone, they wanted me in America, and they wanted me in a place where I couldn't talk.
Okay, but how did, I mean, once they grill you in an office, right, and you don't sort of fold, then, in other words, what did they have to do?
Did you leave Bahrain at that point, or did you stay?
They issued me with a subpoena to appear in the United States.
And I said, okay.
I called my lawyers.
I mean, I hired some lawyers in America.
I called them.
They went and they spoke with the U.S.
attorneys.
And they called me and said the subpoena has been void.
Forget the subpoena.
Do not come to the United States, Bill.
And they said, we don't know what these people are doing, but they're after you.
I went to Canada to meet with my lawyers of all places.
They were saying, don't set foot on U.S.
So, um, my, but we thank you.
Okay, um, very sorry.
We've got another person here.
We'll be right back.
Thank you very much, Gwyneth Todd.
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The truth has just gotten hotter.
I am the fire in the sky, starting to do what to read your mind.
Okay.
This is Carrie Cassidy, Project Hamlet, Whistleblower Radio.
We're talking to Gwyneth Todd.
Gwyneth, you're in the position right now where, in terms of the story, you're basically saying that you went to Canada to talk to your lawyers and were told not to go back to the U.S.
I'm assuming you never went back from that point?
I never went back, no.
Okay.
You need to speak up a little.
I think the volume's gone a little down.
Is that better?
At my end, it's quite, quite distant.
Okay, I'll bring it closer.
Is that good?
Well, we'll go with it for now.
So, I've got a very good question.
We've got a chat room, by the way, that's part of this.
And I don't know, have you ever been to Camelot, Project Camelot?
Well, no, I'm just looking in the web, but I haven't, I haven't inducted you.
Okay.
Uh, there's a chat room and they've asked a good question.
Uh, and they want to know why do you think Israel wants to go to war with Iran so badly?
Israel wants to go to war with Iran so badly, in my opinion, because the Iran is far enough away.
And the Iranian people are not Arabs.
And they are much easier for the Israelis to deal with in a geo-strategic sense.
Under the Shah, they had no trouble with the Iranians.
The Israelis very much want the government of Iran to change and for Iran to revert to the way it was under the Shah.
Because while Israel and Iran can get along and has gotten along just as Israel and Turkey has gotten along and can get along.
Israel and the Arabs are never going to get along.
They are both Semitic peoples.
The Palestinians are Arabs.
The Palestinians are the ones who've had their land taken away and they are not going to or compromise in all likelihood on any terms that either side will accept.
Therefore, Israel sees all Arab countries as enemies and desperately needs to be surrounded by somebody who will protect them against the Arab.
So Israel has a vested interest in regime change in Iran to put in a regime that is friendly to Israel, to keep the Arabs in check, to squeeze them.
Okay, but wasn't it the Americans who went in and deposed the current ruler, put the guy in, well, I guess not the guy who's in charge now, but they put the regime in just before him that he came out of?
I mean, you know, it's just...
That was more, it was under Carter, and it was very touchy-feely human rights stuff.
All right.
The French are the ones who flew Khomeini into Iran.
The Americans were as clueless as they are still about how the Iranian people felt.
And no, we didn't put Khomeini in there.
The French brought him in.
We didn't say anything.
We just thought, oh well, big deal.
And then our embassy got surrounded, and that's when Iran became our bitter enemy.
But up until then, America and Israel both had very close relations with Iran.
We trained them, we armed them, we exercised together.
What about the notion that China and Russia are backing Iran and that's where the real threat exists?
China and Russia are backing Iran and that is something that Israel shouldn't feel threatened by.
But Israel would prefer for Iran and America to be alive because Iran is huge and has tremendous resources.
But the Russians right now and the Chinese, if the Russians more, are not about to let the Americans take Iran back or Israel, because Iran does not want us on their borders there again.
Okay, well, what about energy as a motivating factor here?
Talking about free energy and also the idea of, well, I don't know if you know Keshe's?
Oh, Keshe's.
Sorry.
Keshe?
Yeah.
No, I don't know what you're saying.
Yeah, he's a plasma physicist, from what I understand, who originally was brought up in Iran and now is working out of Belgium on basically what would in many quarters be considered free energy that could power, you know, ships going interstellar, you know, power whole cities, etc., etc.?
I have heard of his work, yes.
Okay.
What about the notion that Iran is going down that road and that's what is making them more of a threat?
Maybe to a few people that's what's making them a threat, but to the people who are actually running the country, don't give them too much credit for being down in the weeds like that.
Okay, when you're saying running, what do you mean?
Running in the U.S.?
In the U.S., definitely.
It's almost impossible to explain how personalities and minor personal agendas tend to drive some of the biggest policy decisions we make, as opposed to a grand plan.
I worked in the government for many, many years.
Never seen a grand plan come to fruition except for the probably 10 people that made us go into war in Iraq.
There is no sort of great group of secret brotherhood of large group who get together.
There are a few clever people who are always lurking about and they know how to work the system.
And they are people like Richard Clark, and Martin, and they're in or out of government, or Richard Pearl, or others.
They come in, they go out, they come in, they go out, but they're always, their tentacles reach deep.
Okay.
And have you heard of, you've heard of, I assume you've heard of MJ-12?
No, I'm not under those terms.
What is MJ-12, and I'll tell you if I've heard of it in another context.
Okay, let's see, the Committee of 300.
I'm guessing by that that you're talking about... Very wealthy, moneyed families going back... Is it also called the circle?
Uh, well, you could, I guess loosely, probably they do, you know, you could refer to it like that.
Maybe, uh, you would understand if I say Rothschilds and Rockefellers.
Okay.
Um, yes, I, that group, as I know it, is known as The Circle.
Okay.
And I'll show you what happens to people who go up, I mean, quickly.
My billionaire, who, um, He funded me through all this and paid my legal fees.
Was murdered.
Shot on the sidewalk in January 2008 after I left Bahrain.
And he had just been at a circle function.
Why do you think he was murdered?
Why do you think he was murdered?
I think he was murdered for a few reasons.
You know, personal guilt.
I think he might have been murdered just to punish me.
I think he was murdered because he had some energy ideas and he had put in hundreds of millions of dollars into a project that nobody wanted to go forward.
And he refused to bow down to the powers that Because they control the world.
So he was found shot dead on the sidewalk on a Saturday afternoon.
No witnesses and ruled a suicide.
No note, no nothing.
Okay, and what do you feel that the role is of someone like Dick Cheney in this scenario?
I think that Dick Cheney is very much involved, but he tends to have a couple of minions do the actual leading work.
It's rare that the circle, as I knew it, actually meets together.
They meet in various places.
When they do, it's around the world in remote locations where they don't draw attention to themselves.
Okay, and how do you feel that the Joint Chiefs of Staff factor in to this group?
Are they simply taking orders, or do you think that they have some sort of command?
Generally, simply taking orders.
There may be one or two exceptions, but they're rare.
Okay, well, if we were to talk about exceptions, who would be an exception, or is there a role, if you don't want to say a name, then is there a title that would be something of an exception?
The kind of person that I would think would be an exception, and I only know him from when we were working on other stuff, I think when you see people like, and these aren't people I dislike, but they have more power than you'd think.
People like General Clark, Wes Clark, who was just on CNN just now.
People who have left the military.
People like, you could say Colin Powell.
But in general, most military guys, including And William Crow was another one who was very big in that.
Brent Scowcroft was another general who went on to become part of this group.
Do you know who Bobby Ray Inman is?
Yes, oh God!
I've sat with him and Brent Scowcroft in the same room.
Yep, I've been in that circle, yes.
Okay, and would you classify him in that group?
He's a nutcase, yes.
Sorry.
Is he a friend of yours?
No, not at all.
Oh, God.
No, he's a nut-nutter.
Yes, I would definitely classify him in that group.
Okay, and why would you classify him as a nutter?
Just curious.
Because I had to sit in a room with him for three days, and I listened to the stuff he was saying.
It's a raving.
I'm sorry.
Well, you know, we're on national, you know, worldwide radio here, but I'm just, you know, no, I really, I'm curious how you've sat in a room with him and you think he's, he's crazy.
Why do you think he's crazy?
What did he say?
Anything in particular?
Can you classify it in any way?
We're talking about Iran.
Actually.
And is he rabidly in favor of going into Iran?
Oh, absolutely.
Rabidly.
Oh, yeah?
Oh, yeah.
I mean, I was sitting in a... There's a group called the Aspen Strategy Group.
Yes.
It was that group that I was sitting in.
Okay.
And, you know, the names of the people in there were very interesting.
They came from all walks of life in all countries.
And we're familiar with Edward Kennedy?
The junior one?
No, the older one.
You mean Ted Kennedy, the one who died?
Yes.
Yeah, I've met him many times.
Yeah.
Okay.
What do I think of him?
Not much.
Well, yeah, because I have, you know, I deal with whistleblowers, and so I have stories that I get about certain people.
Yeah, no, I thought my personal view of Kennedy could not stand him.
I'm sorry, your personal view could not what?
I couldn't stand him.
Okay, okay.
What about how would you classify the relationship between George Bush Sr.
the current government and also Obama?
I would say George Bush Sr. is smart, stays behind the scenes, and has a lot of quiet power.
I think that his relationship with his son is not that great.
I don't trust George Bush Senior to do the right thing, as far as I consider it to be done, and that means things like not going to war with Iran.
He's sort of an elder, rather like Brent Scowcroft, and he can make things happen.
Incredibly wealthy.
I mean, I worked for a company that paid him $14 million.
Just for a speech, for a very short time.
He's a silent mover and shaker.
Okay, and what is his relationship to Obama?
Are you familiar with that?
I'm not familiar with exactly what his relationship is to Obama, but I suspect that it is far more congenial than his relationship, than his son's relationship with Obama.
Because George Bush Sr.
is far more pragmatic, and he's also far more irritated about getting involved with, or bowing down to Israel.
Okay, thank you.
Thank you.
We're going to come right back.
Bye.
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I have this feeling, man, because you know there's a handful of people actually run everything.
That's true.
It's provable.
A handful, a very small elite run and own these corporations, which include the mainstream media.
I have this feeling who's ever elected president, like Clinton was, no matter what your promises you promise on the campaign trail, blah blah blah, when you win, you go into this smoky room with the twelve industrialist capitalist scum f***s who got you in there, and you're in this smoky room and this little film screen comes down, and a big guy in a cigar, roll the film.
And it's a shot of a Kennedy assassination from an angle you've never seen before.
It looks suspiciously off the grassy knoll.
And in the film the screen goes up and the lights come up and they go to the new president.
Any questions?
Just what my agenda is.
First we bomb Baghdad.
You got it.
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You're listening to the future of talk.
American Freedom Radio.
This is American Freedom Radio.
Your life as it has been.
Your life is over.
Don't miss the middle champ of creator X on 8th floor.
Listen to the Paradigm Shift, Saturday night, 8 p.m. Central.
Okay, this is Carrie Cassidy, Project Camelot, Whistleblower Radio, and we're talking to Gwyneth Todd.
Gwyneth.
I'm still here.
Okay, very good.
I would like to know whether or not you know anything about the Obama birth certificate issue.
I know nothing about it.
I was out of the country.
Yeah, I'm sorry about... I haven't been back since 2005, so I really... On that issue, I couldn't tell you.
Everything I've been doing has been focused on Middle East.
I'm sorry, everything you've been doing has been what?
I've been focused on other areas.
Okay, but you left... When exactly did you leave the Middle East?
Permanently.
I left the Middle East on January 2nd, 2008.
And at that point, did you go to Australia?
Yes.
And I have never left Australia since.
Okay.
And why did you go to Australia?
Well, I needed to go somewhere.
and I had a contract bid.
Let me finish the story about what happened after May and then it'll be clear.
Okay.
If you don't mind.
After the FBI suddenly showed up on May 23rd, on the day of the aircraft carrier transit, and then I flew to Canada and met my lawyers.
They said, don't come back to America.
So my contract was supposed to be up.
In Bahrain in January 2008.
I thought I might get fired earlier because of this FBI investigation.
That somehow I'd be implicated.
But I wasn't fired.
Instead of being fired, my duties were increased.
My security clearance access was increased.
I was made the editor of the Daily Intelligence Group, which covered everything from Somalia to Afghanistan.
I had unprecedented access to everything.
Thank you.
And I would go in every morning at three, in the morning, and I would prepare, I would edit the briefing, all the different raw intelligence that would come in, and I would take out the stuff that was garbage, and it would go forward.
In Bahrain at the time, a woman named Lynn Dow, Commander, knew exactly, I mean she's the one who received the report, along with the Admiral.
And for six months I did this.
Now the Head of Intelligence there, liked my reporting so much that he wanted me to stay on.
So he asked the Admiral to give me a new contract.
And the Admiral was being kind of cagey about it.
So I was offered a much more lucrative contract working for the Navy in Italy, dealing with issues in the Mediterranean.
And I needed my top secret, special compartmentalized access for FBI clearance in order to get that job.
I had my SDI access, obviously, or I wouldn't be doing what I was doing.
So I applied for the job in Naples, and it looked like a shoo-in.
In early December 2007, I figured I'd either stay in Bahrain or I'd move to Naples.
That was not the plan of the people who wanted to shut me up, because they wanted me to come back to the States.
What I believe happened is they decided that they had to move quickly to do something to me so that I had to go back to America by taking away all possibilities of an overseas job.
So on December 13th, I came in at 3 in the morning, I did the daily briefing, and then I went up to my regular job in the same building, and I was doing political advising.
And in the afternoon, The young lieutenant, whom I'd never seen before, brought me an intelligence report.
It was so secret and so compartmentalized that it was, you know, in a special folder and you had to sign for it.
And it detailed an immediate threat supposedly by Iranians against American service people in Bahrain.
And it listed the names and addresses of the bombers.
They were in a village, it was a Shiite village, which was off limits to all official personnel, but not to me, because I was a contractor.
I was then called down to the Admiral's office, and he said, we need to verify this report, because if it's true, we have to lock everyone down.
We can't let anyone be out.
And he said, you have no immunity, you have nothing, but you're the only person who can find out if he's secure or not.
And, will you go out to the village, or will you go out and verify it?
And I said, yes.
As long as we're safe, yes.
I left his office.
I showed the report to Commander Lynn Chow, the security officer.
It was right outside his office.
He said, OK, make sure you report when you get back what you find out.
I went up to my office with the lieutenant who still had the report.
My colleague read it.
Martin Adams read the report.
I called the head of intelligence who was at home, and he didn't know anything about it.
He came rushing in.
And he read the report.
And he said, this doesn't sound right.
And he tried to call Len Chow to see the Admiral, and was told, no.
Everyone had gone home.
So we all scratched our heads.
And he said, look, this is really bad.
He said, I can't imagine why they would ask you to go out and do this.
It would be illegal.
If the report is true, you are the only person with this kind of access who can verify it.
So, you'd be doing it intentionally, and you might save lives.
But, you know, it's really dangerous, and I said, look, I'll do it if it's going to save lives.
He said, well, then I'll come in right after midnight, and I will file your report immediately.
So, we had this agreement.
I went out that night.
I did not go to the village.
We went to a different place.
I met with someone who would have known if it was true, and he explained that it was not only not true, but that there appeared to be a set-up.
While I was there, he came close to where any police officers came up to us.
Um, they shook our hands.
They made a joke to him, who'd been in prison before.
Um, about needing to lose weight so we could outrun them.
And then they walked off.
My contact said, something's wrong, that we need to go.
So I rushed back up to base, and discovered that my badges had all been deactivated.
Um, I thought it was just a computer glitch.
Inserted the guy at the door, so he let me in.
I got upstairs, I typed up my report.
The Intelligence Chief came in after midnight.
He filed that report electronically and sent it to Washington.
The next morning I came in to see what had happened.
I was greeted by the Intelligence Chief at the door and he said, something strange is going on.
Get off the base.
Don't come back on.
Call in.
Don't come here.
And I said, what do you mean?
He said, look, I filed your report.
Excellent report.
One of the best I've ever seen.
This morning, Commander Lynn Chow found out, and she freaked out.
And I don't know what's going on, but we need to get off the base.
So, I got off the base, I called in, and Lynn Chow said, yes, we suspended your FBI access yesterday.
But I'm not going to talk about it to you.
We need to come to the base.
And I said, well, wait a minute.
And I thought, I didn't know what was going on.
I thought, maybe, what could I have done wrong?
And I said, I'm not coming to the break.
And she said, you have to.
And we went back and forth for days.
Finally, I discovered there was a letter that was signed on December 13th, the same day I was sent out On that strange mission.
Repaired by Lynn Chow, her name is on it.
I'm signed by her boss.
She's sending my SDI access.
And they tried to hide that letter from me.
And it took me three months to get it.
But I have an official copy.
It means that they sent me out They cancelled my badges and my clearance, and they sent me out on an illegal mission.
And I believe, personally, that they then called the Bahraini police and said, you're arresting this person, she's a sly.
Because they'd given me the addresses of these guys' houses, and apparently these guys were terrorists.
Okay, well, I'm very sorry we're at the end of the show.
I really apologize.
I'd love to have you back.
Let's arrange that.
Okay, Gwen, are you there?
I'm here, and I would love to.
Okay, I really apologize that we're at the end here.
This is a fascinating story, and I hope that we can go into some more detail in the future, okay?
Absolutely, anytime.
And I'm sorry it took so long, and I'm sorry about the comms.
Okay, no problem.
Thank you so much.
I think people have really enjoyed listening to you.
I know I have.
Take care, okay?
Well, thank you for the honor.
It really is.
Alright.
Thanks.
Bye.
Bye-bye.
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The Ten Commandments.
Here's my problem.
Why are there ten?
I think the list of commandments was deliberately and artificially inflated to get it up to ten.
Here's what they did.
About 5,000 years ago, a bunch of religious and political hustlers got together to try to figure out how to control people.
How to keep them in line.
They knew people were basically stupid and would believe anything they were told, so they announced that God had given them some commandments.
Up on a mountain, when no one was around, God had given them the Ten Commandments.
Why ten?
Why not nine?
Or eleven?
I'll tell you why.
Because ten sounds official.
They knew if it was eleven, people wouldn't take it seriously.
It's a political document artificially inflated to sell better.
Ten is the basis for the decimal system.
It's a decade of the top ten, the ten most wanted, the ten best dressed.
So having ten commandments was really a marketing decision.
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