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June 7, 2012 - Project Camelot
01:08:41
A Conversation with Jo Ann Richards Regarding Captain Mark Richards U.S. Space Command
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Time Text
This
is Carrie Cassidy from Project Camelot and we are here at the Marriott Hotel on the 3rd of June 2012 and I've got Joanne Richards here with me and I happened to run into her at the conference not knowing that I would.
And so we're going to take this opportunity to do a short interview and just get an update on what's going on with her and her husband and see if we can also tell a bit of that story on camera.
I know it's been told before, but we'd like to record it for Camelot at this time.
So, Joanne, it's lovely to talk to you, and I'm going to try to enlist the help of a cameraman sometime during the interview so we can both be on camera simultaneously if that works.
Could you just introduce yourself, introduce your husband, and maybe just give a little explanation as to the background of the whole story?
Alright, well my name is Joanne Richards.
I run an educational non-profit called Earth Defense Headquarters.
And my husband and his father were involved with high-level military intelligence, both from early ages.
And my husband was framed for a murder he had nothing to do with in 1982, so that he would get out of the hair of the New World Order as he would be fighting their efforts at this time.
And he and his father were involved with many missions involving aliens on and off Earth, UFO confrontations.
And very interesting experiences.
And my husband's met and worked with several alien species.
His grandfathers both worked with Nikola Tesla.
His father tested his equipment or his inventions and things.
And they both had a very interesting life.
And my husband's been in prison for almost 30 years for something he had nothing to do with.
Okay.
It's an incredible story.
So, I guess maybe if we back up, because this is 2012 and this has been going on, at least to my knowledge, you say he's been actually in jail for 30 years, you say?
But I thought this whole thing happened kind of, I don't know, like 15 years ago.
Maybe I'm wrong.
No, we met about 16 years ago, and we...
We've been married for almost 10 years, and so after a few years of just us getting to know each other and developing our relationship, I was always doing research for his family history that's quite voluminous, and it involves a lot of world events, and then he started sharing more of what he used to do in the military.
And then he started suggesting I go to this UFO conference that happened to be in Santa Clara.
And, you know, why don't you see if anybody's talking about reptilians?
It's like, well, okay, whatever.
And then the next year I had a booth there.
And over the years he's been providing reports of missions that he's been involved with on and off worlds, you know, saving humanity and fighting aliens and working with aliens.
And he's been seeing aliens since he was a little kid.
And it's amazing and fascinating and nothing I was exposed to before I met him, except for Martian movies in the 50s.
And, you know, I totally get it.
Okay, so, but to back up and talk about how he got in the position that he's in and how he is, I guess, in prison but also having experiences outside of prison.
Is that kind of the way you look at it?
No, not now.
I mean, he's...
His experiences were all before his arrest in 1982.
Okay.
Right.
So, if you want to describe, my understanding is that he was framed in a situation.
Right.
So, could you, like, as if we've never heard the story, could you kind of start with that story and maybe why that story kind of started to emerge, like why he started to be framed because of what had happened in Dulcy prior to that?
Well, Dulcy's probably only one minute part of it, and he really hates to talk about that.
But as one of his fronts for his military activity, he had numerous businesses that he would start and stop and be very successful at.
And one of them was a construction company, and he was doing a remodeling job for one of his friends.
And he was such a nice guy, he would hire juvenile delinquents to work for him.
And they killed somebody, supposedly the guy that they were remodeling the house for.
And when they were caught, they said that my husband masterminded this murder.
And his military background was never brought up during the trial, and he was never there, and he was not involved, and yet he's serving a life without parole sentence.
So he was arrested in 1982.
One of the key witnesses who got full immunity changed his story three times to fit what the DA wanted it to be.
The DA changed the date of death three times to make sure it was the day my husband was in town.
The kid who actually killed somebody never testified against my husband.
So totally circumstantial evidence against my husband.
And they didn't...
At the time, his lawyer, who did a terrible job, kept saying, oh, everything's fine, everything's fine, you're going to be fine, you'll get off, and he got convicted of first-degree murder.
At the time, they didn't think there was any government conspiracy issue with all that, because they were very patriotic and believed in what they were doing.
And I think years later, before I met him, they finally started to realize, well...
Whether New World Order types planned the whole thing or they're using it as a very convenient way to ruin his reputation as a military officer and ruin his credibility because, you know, this guy's in prison.
What's he going to tell?
Just a bunch of stories.
Nobody's going to believe him.
And after several years, he finally decided, well, I've been in prison for a long time for something I didn't do, and I'm going to share things that are not covered by his U.S. secrecy oath.
So he started sharing and here I am and he keeps sharing.
Okay.
And just out of curiosity, are you still able to visit him in prison at this time?
I visit him every week unless I'm doing something like this or visiting my grandkids.
Oh wow.
So that's just incredible.
When this happened, okay, up to then, had he talked about Dulce?
Because I thought he had started talking about Dulce before this.
No, he was asked to help edit a report that went to the Joint Chiefs of Staff in 2001, December of 2001.
And even before I knew any of this, he gave me a copy of it because I was starting a little publishing company and then I started the non-profit.
And I said, okay, here's a cool thing.
I hadn't even read it yet.
I didn't know anything about Dulce.
And he doesn't like to talk about it.
And basically, at the time, the government was hearing all these things being leaked out about Dulce and stuff, and the military had heard, you know, they They knew it was there.
The government allowed it to be there.
They knew, but they didn't realize how bad it was getting.
And then eventually at some point, especially in 1979, they realized how bad it had gotten and a certain faction, group of military people headed by my father-in-law decided they would take some action and they planned one rescue mission that he was involved with.
There were several squads It was military groups that went in, and they rescued 3,500 people, captured two craft.
Several people were wounded.
Several people were killed.
My husband was wounded seriously.
It all happened at the same time that other people talk about other Dulce things, and I believe a lot of different things have happened there.
You know, he was only in and out of there for an hour.
And he said it was horrible.
He doesn't like to talk about it.
He probably shouldn't be talking about it.
So he rarely says anything about it.
But I do have this report.
And I do sell a lot of copies of it.
Okay.
We're gonna interrupt this right now to change cameras.
Okay.
Okay, so what I wanted to talk about is going down.
I understand from what you previously said that Mark Richards doesn't really want to talk a lot about Dulce.
Right.
And I guess there are a variety of reasons for that, right?
Right.
Can you sort of, first of all, outline those reasons and then I'm going to ask you to actually do that.
Okay.
I think part of it is because it might have been under his U.S. secrecy oath, so he's not going to say much.
Okay.
Part of it because he was only there an hour, so he was concentrating on his mission and the combat that ensued as soon as he got there.
And so he wasn't paying attention to details, which I know people have been irritated that my details don't match their details.
But like you said, I was only there for an hour.
I wasn't there to look at the walls or the floors.
I was there to rescue people and restore as much of the base as we could and get out alive.
Okay.
Now, just out of curiosity, have you talked to Sean Nevenoffner?
No.
I've heard him speak, but I've never talked to him.
Okay, because he's written a book called...
Let's see, Sands of Pine, that has in it as one of the major parts of Dulce Battle.
So there sounds like he maybe got some information from maybe the testimony of Mark Richards.
Well, and again, the report that I have is a report that he edited versus many reports I have that he straight out wrote.
So, I don't know who wrote the original version.
Obviously, he's mentioned in there as his father is, and there's actually a list on the back page of key figures, military and some government people, and Ross Burrow helped fund the operation.
And the report goes into, like you said, the The research that had been leaking out and some of the things that researchers have been learning and saying, it talks about the different aliens that were there, a lot about the experiments, a lot about the torture, the manipulation, just the mutilation and stuff, just the horrible...
Stuff that was going on there.
There's a section about mind control, and then there's a big section about the...
He's calling it...
I mean, the report's called the Battle of Dulce, but it's about the one mission he was involved with.
And like he's told me, it's like he was on a need-to-know basis.
His dad was in charge, but that doesn't mean his dad told him everything that had gone on at Dulce.
And they had just come back the month before or so from a space mission where there was a battle.
And basically kicked butt out there and then had really found out how bad things were at Dulce and they just weren't going to have it.
Women and children were being tortured and killed and mutilated and everything imaginable.
He said it was really horrible and most of the people there would have been better off dead, frankly, than being rescued and tried to be brought out back to normal society.
What I'd like to say here is that it would be great if we could get A clear description of what he considered his job to be at that time.
Sure.
His job was commander of one of the combat squads.
If I remember correctly, the military groups, there were several squads involved.
Some went in through vents, some went in through the tunnel system.
His group went in through one of the big doors.
The military had tracked a UFO coming in.
The base basically disguised the entrances with a holographic image so that you would just think it was desert.
Well, they tracked this UFO going in.
When the doors opened up, my husband was flying an experimental plane, and they flew in basically right in after the UFO. Got in there and immediately a gun battle started.
So the report describes a lot of that.
So his job was to go in, you know, Fight whoever they had to rescue as many people as they could, destroy as much of a base as they could.
Okay, but when I just said his job, what I was really meaning was like...
Well, no, just because you said he just came from an out-of-space mission.
And what I was going to say was, was he a member of what's known as Space Command?
And what was his rank in Space Command, if so, and that kind of thing.
Or, you know what I'm saying?
In other words, his general in life.
Hard to describe.
He is a retired Navy captain.
He started his military career in the Army.
He was a lieutenant in Vietnam, then came out as a captain.
Lateraled over, as he calls it, to being a Navy Captain, and then went into Special Forces, Air Force Special Forces.
Okay.
So he was always doing action stuff.
And like I said, a lot of stuff he can't tell me, but sometimes he was under U.S. orders, sometimes he was under orders of an international military intelligence group that his father was in charge of.
Okay.
And so...
But it seems like he had above top secret clearance.
Yeah, he always, from the time he was a child, he had parents way above the president.
Okay.
And why was that?
Because his father also did?
Because his father did, and from the time he was a little kid, he was seeing stuff and knowing stuff and hearing stuff, because his dad took him to a lot of top-secret meetings and bases and things.
And he, you know, his dad would go have a meeting with Admiral Nimitz, and Mark would be playing among the maps, and he would hear things, and he would say things that he wasn't supposed to, and, you know, it was just a big game, basically.
Okay, and he grew up in Northern California, did you tell me that?
The family home is in Marin, and then the family was stationed, when he was little, his dad was stationed at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base.
Okay.
He was stationed at...
Maybe both of the bases of Sacramento, Mather and McClellan.
Then his dad was stationed in Pakistan for a while at a very top secret base.
Mark himself, what kind of planes was he capable of flying?
Do you know?
Some of them I know.
I don't want to say some ordinary run-of-the-mill jet type things, but he could probably fly that.
He also flew some top secret stuff that DARPA had developed.
He used to fly a rocket that originally Rand Corporation had developed.
He has flown the SR-71 as something that's more top secret than that.
He also has flown his own alien craft that had crashed here and he's the only human that's ever flown her.
Oh, really?
Yeah, and he's also been captain of one of the space battlecruisers that our deep space fleet had, so...
Okay, like sort of a starship enterprise type of a...
You know, is it a large...
It wasn't large at all.
The Probably only held a crew of about nine people.
What about the TR3V? I've never heard him use that term.
I have no doubt he's probably flown black triangle type things.
I know he was involved with some heavy top-secret aircraft stuff.
Have you heard of the term solar warden?
A little bit.
Did he ever use it?
Do you know?
Not that I remember, but it sounds familiar.
Alright.
It sounds familiar.
I'm not sure why that's sounding familiar, but it's really sounding familiar.
Okay, and what about the Venture Star?
Does that sound familiar?
No, but in a report that he wrote about, in 1970 there was a conference at Fort Baker at the north end of the Golden Gate Bridge.
A year after he'd gone to the moon, his dad was in charge or heavily involved with this conference between humans and non-humans, and they were talking about what to do about humans going back into space.
And at one point, because there was a sabotage attempt on this conference, at one point a group of really top-secret aircraft And later it's found out that he was flying one of them.
They were called Dark Stars, I think.
And I don't know if they were a flying saucer type thing or more of a normal looking aircraft.
I might have to go back and read the thing.
But, you know, he was testing that and he was still in high school.
Okay.
He's been doing, even before he was out of high school, he was in Vietnam as an advisor because he knows stuff.
Okay, and one last question before we go back to the subject at hand.
Is he able to give interviews while he's in prison at this time?
You couldn't take a camera in unless you got really good permission.
I mean, they have very strict media policies.
Technically, what you have to do, and you probably would have more plout than I ever did as a small-time journalist, but...
You have to get approved to see them as a visitor.
It used to be I could get paper and pencil from them and take out my notes when I had my newspaper and said I just want to come in and do an interview.
So they probably still do that.
They really frown upon people coming in with big camera crews and singling out any one inmate for doing that because they don't want to give anybody any notoriety.
That doesn't mean it can't happen.
It just doesn't happen a lot.
I'm on a lot of radio interviews and they keep, well, can he call?
I go, he can only make collect calls and we never know when that can happen because you have to not be on lockdown and you have to be home from work in time.
You have to get on a list.
So it's not like we can just say, call me at this time You know, that's not easy, but interviews aren't necessarily taboo, but they don't really like cameras.
Okay.
Well, just, sorry, but this is causing me to cast one more question.
Let's say I was CNN. Could I interview them on camera?
I bet you if you were CNN, you probably could.
Okay.
Because you see other...
Journalists go in with camera crews, especially if they're doing a piece about prison itself.
And lastly, would it jeopardize him?
I know he's talking, right, already?
Some people know he's talking.
Yeah, would that, I mean, do you think that that would be a problem to make him more, like, you know, front and center in terms of the media?
I'd have to ask him.
But...
You know, the prison people know he has a military background.
They have no clue as to what level his military background is, and we kind of keep that on the low key.
I see.
And he'll send me out written material, and sure, they read it, but we just keep counting on them not really getting what he's writing, because they're not very bright.
So he doesn't really want to totally front himself off as this, you know, I used to be a space pilot kind of guy.
Right.
But I'm sure if you wanted to talk to him, you could.
Okay.
I just don't know if it could be with camera.
I understand.
But he's not adverse to talking to people, especially, you know, if you contact him first and he gets a sense of who you are and knows that he can, you know, talk to you.
Well, don't you think that there's a huge audience out there that I, at least from my perspective, what I hear out there is what they plan on, what they're sort of basing everything on is that nobody's going to believe him anyway.
I know.
They've done a really good job of ruining his credibility.
Right.
I mean, that was the purpose.
Exactly.
And I have to say, we didn't have our first date when he started telling me about this stuff.
We got to know each other for years.
Before he ever told me any of this stuff.
And I grew to trust him.
Yes, we fell in love and that's all wonderful.
And he's a brilliant man.
I mean, he's got a million degrees.
I mean, he's got several degrees.
History, political science, quantum physics.
He's got a PhD and a half.
And he's just brilliant in his own right.
And he's also a prolific writer.
So I grew to trust him and trust his intellect and admire all that.
And I knew his dad had been in the Air Force, and he said a little bit about his military stuff, so that by the time I had already done some research and had been talking to him for years, I was like, well sure you're telling me the truth, why wouldn't you?
And he's not a man that wants to be embarrassed, so he's not going to send me out here with a bunch of lies, because that's not who he is.
He walks into the visiting room, And he has a commander's stance.
And now I'm going to cry.
Because he just walks out with his head held high and his shoulders high and his chest out.
It's like, Captain Richards, there you are.
And he's just amazing and commanding what he did.
Well that's lovely to hear.
And I do have friends who have actually gotten to know me through my work out here doing him who have written him and actually gone to visit him.
So I do have people that know him now and can say he exists and you sit and talk with him and oh yeah he's really telling the real deal.
So it's not just my word thankful anymore.
Okay, very good to hear.
So now we're going to back up again.
And what I want to sort of do in a sort of blow-by-blow is get, as if, I know that this may be redundant again, but if you wouldn't mind sort of Saying what happened to him?
Has he ever related like where he was when he got the order to come in?
And then also perhaps as you tell the story and what he discovered, you know, going in.
And getting out.
And then the repercussions of what happened.
In other words, we're kind of looking to get a blow-by-blow in a chronological sort of order.
Are we talking about Dulce again?
Yes, we are.
Just because this incident allows us to focus on one thing, and from there we can go other places, but I'd like to start with that.
I should have read the report last night.
I don't know where he was exactly when he got the order.
He does the report, I keep saying he I know, but the report talks about Different things that happened at Letterman and remote viewing, and I think that helped play a part into them knowing how bad things were there.
Because I'm never really sure where my father-in-law got all his intelligence information.
He was just very talented that way.
So I don't know where Mark was when he got the order.
And our report...
It goes into a lot of details of who was involved in which different military groups and which different military leaders were involved.
And some of them are pretty big names that people would recognize, and he included their biographies and all that.
I just know he was flying an experimental plane called an X-22.
Vertical takeoff thing.
Okay.
And the report goes into a lot of detail about that.
And it talks about the military had tracked a UFO going there.
He went in...
And the date of this was exactly, you know...
He would never give me the date.
He always used to say it was the fall of 79.
All right.
Now, I was looking in the report today for some quotes that I'm going to use in an upcoming talk, and it's like, oh, it says September and October.
Cool.
Because I know the mission he was in space right before this, he had left in August, and I'm not sure how long he was gone because he was seriously wounded.
So he would have come back, you know, sometime in August or September.
So he's never divulged the exact date.
He just says it's fall of 79.
So it's right in the same time frame as other people are saying stuff that they know, which is great.
But again, he went in and it talks about...
The report does talk about different levels and it does talk about he remembers a control room.
And I don't remember, I can't remember whether he's talking about, he was going down in elevators, but he does talk about different levels of things that were happening, and of course the whole report talks about that.
I don't remember which level he had to go to, but he did see a lot of victims and horrible, you know, what had happened to them and how horrible it was.
So was he also seeing people in sort of tanks and things of that nature?
I'm not sure if he saw them.
The report does go into that and does confirm that that definitely was there.
And it really gets very graphic about how awful it was and people with arms cut off and just basically human milking machines.
And what about alien-human hybrids?
Did they show that or talk about that?
Yeah, the report does go into that.
It goes into talking about the dozens of species that had visited there, how many would have come by their own craft, how many maybe would have used maybe a wormhole or whatever.
He's like...
It talks about numerous species.
In 1979 it says that the military had known at least 60 species.
And then I have another report, which I don't want to digress, but it's like another report where in 1961 he saw hundreds of species coming to a conference he was at as a little boy.
Are you kidding?
It's like we're talking about two or three years.
And where would this have been?
That conference?
Yeah.
Exeter, England, June of 1961.
And was it underground or above ground?
No, they used castles and ports and different facilities that the RAF would just get closed off to the public.
And, you know, this committee meeting will be here and this one will be here.
My husband got to play with alien children while his dad was running the conference.
And you know, when you say alien children, which alien?
Yes, yeah, because I just finished talking about this.
He got to play with two raptor children because their father was at the conference as a prince of the raptor empire.
He played with, she was a manta teenager.
Okay, let's see.
Oh, there was an oceanic pearl Her father was at the conference, and the only way, because there's an interdimensional, more of an energy being, the way they take human form is to reanimate somebody who's just drowned.
So she took on the body of a little girl who had just drowned, and then she got used to that, and she joined their group.
And it was he and a little English friend of his, and they were the only two human children.
It was basically, here's a little social experiment to see how these human children will get along with these...
Aliens, and they go along great.
And there was this gastro cell thing, and it's really beautiful, but it's usually part of a colony.
A colony, yeah, colony, and they look like clouds, so sometimes the clouds are not what they seem to be, but they were very friendly and neutral, but this one had come to give the conference people a message, but it looks like a very bluish, white, oily blob thing, and would speak to them telepathically and through other means.
Did he communicate telepathically with the raptor?
The raptors could speak English.
Oh, really?
Some of them, especially if they're more elite, they have operations so that they can speak English.
But my husband also has grown up with elementals and fairies in his life, so they're a big part of our existence and our life, and it's just been...
And so they helped actually translate for many species.
Okay.
Are you, or is he...
Actually, I should make a distinction.
What is his bloodline?
Is it English, or is it Irish, or is it Scottish?
It's all that.
A huge part of his bloodline is Germanic.
And four generations back, I mean, if he was living in Germany today, he would be a prince.
I see.
He's got some really good...
He comes from the Stuarts of Scotland.
A lot of his distant cousins are royal families in European countries.
And what is your lead line?
And Irish and Celtic.
Mine is a lot similar, amazingly.
I have Germanic and a lot of English.
It's like, oh...
Yeah.
His was more the higher-level Germanic.
I was more the peasant, apparently.
Your original last name isn't Richard.
No, my maiden name is Fawcett.
Fawcett.
Okay, fine.
Just out of curiosity, for people that track this kind of thing, it always is interesting.
And since we're there, it's like his one...
His maternal grandmother, her line is from the Williams line that was the governor of Rhode Island, I believe.
And a Peacock family, Indiana, Illinois, there were big families there.
And the Taylors, his one grandfather was going to run for governor and he was murdered.
His other grandfather worked on the Manhattan Project.
Okay.
So, heavy duty stuff.
Yeah, very interesting.
Alright, so back to Dulcy for a moment here.
So was his father also involved in Dulcy?
His father was the commander of that whole mission.
He was.
Right.
Okay, and his father's name is what?
Ellis Lloyd Richard Jr.
Okay, and is his father still alive?
No, he died in February of 1997, six months before we met.
Okay, and what would his father think of him having gone public with his husband?
Do you have any idea?
Because he hasn't broken any of his U.S. secrecy oaths, I think his father would be fine with it because his father is usually with me when I speak.
Whenever I go to England to speak, last time I was there, his father was standing right beside me.
Oh, so you're quite psyched.
I'm a little bit psyched.
And my psychic friends could see him right there and when I'm certain places, I can feel him right there.
If I go to the USS Hornet aircraft carrier and go on the flight deck, he's always right there.
Okay.
And is he also in communication with his son?
I would like to believe so.
Mark doesn't really share that, so I don't know.
But I would like to believe that he is.
But he certainly knows exactly what we're doing and has given me messages to let me know how proud he is of me for taking care of his son.
I'm on the right track and I need to keep telling the truth.
Oh, well that's actually positive.
Very positive.
So his father was in command.
Do you know who was in command of the Dulce base at the time?
The report says that basically at least one group of Greys were overseers.
But there were several species that worked there, came there, visited there, had orgies there.
Several of our politicians would go there and have orgies there.
Okay, but you don't know what human was in charge of it?
No.
Okay.
Which military?
Was it the army, the navy?
That went in for this mission?
No, that was in charge of the base.
I don't know.
I mean, the report...
The human side.
Well, I always thought it was all mixed together.
Humans were working with aliens.
And I know the report does talk about humans and wearing uniforms with little triangular things on them.
But I don't know...
You don't know the power structure.
Nobody ever...
Not for the base.
And I'm not sure...
Well, the report may get into that, but I'm not sure if it does describe that.
Okay, when you say the report, it sounds like you didn't write it.
No, not at all.
He was asked at some point to edit a report that was, he and several others were asked to edit a report that was going to the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
And it was presented to them by General Hayden in December of 2001.
After this whole thing happened?
Yeah, because the time he was there was 1979.
Right.
9-11 happened and all of a sudden they're getting a report about Dulce in 2001.
The timing was very interesting.
He gave me this report, and I didn't read it for the longest time until one of my friends who helps me now at these conferences is like, have you read that report?
I don't know.
Oh, you need to read it.
It'll scare you to death.
It's like, oh, yeah.
Because I really had hardly gotten in.
There were so many other things I was trying to get out and learn and read and get typed up to bring to this.
But no, I definitely didn't write it.
And I don't know who wrote it.
And there's several things that were left out of it that they were not going to show the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
And they certainly didn't want the public to know about.
And some of it might have involved equipment and things, but again, he's not going to tell me those things.
I ask him questions and he gets a look.
It's like, you're on a need-to-know basis, wife, don't ask.
I can't tell you.
Okay, but actually, after all they've done to him, it actually sounds like you're saying that he's still keeping his oath to some degree?
He totally keeps his U.S. secrecy oaths.
He has also done missions for other agencies like this International Military Intelligence Agents called International Security that was formed in 1947 by the UN. Admiral Nimitz ran it till he died in the 60s.
Then my father-in-law officially retired from the Air Force and took it over.
And he ran it till basically probably he died.
Okay, but when...
So many times my husband was not under orders by the US military, per se, and so those are the only things he's sharing.
Okay, so he's doing off-planet missions.
Right.
Wasn't he under the U.S. security?
He probably was, but those missions I don't know anything about.
But you do know he goes on them, or he went on them?
I know he's gone on some, but those were under orders of the international security.
So those are what he shares.
Because there's time gaps in what he's told me.
It's like, I know something from 1966, uh, 76, 77.
Now I know something about a mission from 1978 that that was on Earth.
And it's like, I don't know anything about the early 80s, but I know he was still doing stuff.
You know, his wife at that time when he was arrested, he would go off and build houses in Canada for two weeks.
Because that's what she thought he was doing.
It's like, yeah, right, okay.
But was he part of what's called U.S. Space Command, to your knowledge?
I believe so.
Okay.
I know his dad was involved with it because there are many reports where his dad is at U.S. Space Command giving a briefing and giving orders and stuff.
Oh, all right.
How about the base in Utah?
Have you heard much about Dugway or any of that?
As a mask?
Yeah.
I'm glad you brought that up.
He just, well, a few years back, and I don't remember when he wrote it, but he hand-wrote out this 2,000-page report about there had been the UFO crash, which is, you can find it all over the internet, called the UFO crash in May of 1978 in Tarija, Bolivia, right near the border of Argentina.
Long story, but my husband was actually in charge of Operation Moon Dust at the time.
And his dad was head of international security.
And this poor, lovely insect species who had cloaking technology and interdimensional travel technology, their world was dying or imploding or whatever.
They got tricked by another alien species to believe that Earth was uninhabited.
And so this whole plan was for them to, like, probes were to be fired towards Earth or to change timelines.
So their intention was to change timelines so that the American Revolution wouldn't happen, the French Revolution didn't happen, and all these other things would be set in place.
And I'm sure there was a space battle that happened and some probes got...
You know, shot off.
And so we were fighting that and the military found out about that and had to deal with it.
One of their motherships crashed here.
So everybody hears about this big ship that's crashed in Bolivia and you had Bechtel people, Nazis.
We're ready.
Stand by.
Five, four, three.
It's rolling.
Okay.
So, right before we were interrupted and had to reload the camera...
There's a shadow right in your face.
Mine?
Yeah.
Oh, it's moved over in this area.
Is this better here?
Hard to say.
That's good.
That's much better.
Okay.
Okay, so...
Where we were, I believe, do you remember exactly?
We were talking something about the Bolivia incident.
Oh, the Bolivia.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay, that was very, very interesting.
Okay, so what happened during that incident?
Like, you seemed to want to bring it up.
Because you were talking about Space Command, I think, too.
And I was saying, I know that his dad seemed to be at Space Command talking about the intelligence they had received about this eminent issue and problem, and they needed to go deal with it.
They had learned that, you know, something was going to come in and attack timelines and whatever.
And it was actually one alien species tricking this other alien species who had no clue that Earth was inhabited.
And because that species wanted this species' technology, and that species worked with the New World Order, so it was New World Order and those guys plotting it.
And it turned out to be this lovely little insect species.
It's basically an interdimensional twin to what we have on Earth called a water bear.
So very tiny, very pudgy looking, chocolate pudding looking thing with little legs.
But they grouped together in little almost like walker tank things.
So like they would sit on my husband's shoulder or they would sit on somebody's shoulder and they would shoot enemy weapons.
So they were engaging in these battles.
When these people were fighting for control of the downed aircraft, just one little thing.
What else was I saying about that?
So your husband was called down to Bolivia to deal with this on some level?
Yes, as head of Operation Moondust, he was called down there because that involved with retrieving downed craft.
So they needed to take control of the craft, retrieve it, get it out of there, you know, clean up any evidence that it was over there.
Even though there's pictures of like this huge gash in the mountainside basically of it ever being there.
But basically they did a very good clean up job.
Okay.
But your husband, as part of this Operation Moondust, what was his sort of mission in regard to Moondust?
Well, considering I only really knew that that was one of his titles recently, it's like, you know, I had to take a double take.
So we haven't really discussed it much.
I just know that that's what Moondust's job was, was to retrieve craft when they knew that something had come down.
And then I read in one of the reports that he was, somebody was talking about him being the commander.
He was like, excuse me.
I've never really volunteered that information.
Thank you very much.
Oh, alright.
You know, so...
Well, no, that's interesting because I do know about Project Moondust.
Good, good.
Project Moondust was a crash retrieval project and actually wrote a screenplay called Project Moondust years ago.
And so...
It's interesting that your husband was part of that.
Alright, so to get back again to Dulce, I'm going to keep focusing on that a little bit.
Because in certain ways, Dulce seems to be a pivotal incident.
And I'm wondering whether you even have put it in any kind of overall context with our relationship with Dulce.
At least a certain group of races and possibly why they took after that incident or I'm assuming the reason they took your husband down was his knowledge of that incident.
Now am I wrong?
I'm sure that played a part of it.
I don't think that was the only reason.
Because, again, he was never going to talk about it.
Okay.
He was never going to talk about any of this.
He was just going to write, you know, once he got to prison, he was just going to write a family history, which is full of world events, and then he started filling in some of the gaps.
But I don't think that was ever intended to because that's not his same writing style as he writes some of these other things.
So that was never intended to be part of the family history.
Again, that was just a report he helped edit.
So I'd say it was probably a combination of things that would have made them want to take him down because...
Like I said, he's known secrets ever since he was a little kid.
Yeah, but why take him down then?
You know what I'm saying?
In other words, wasn't there an inciting incident in which he...
Well, okay, let me tell you what I know, and you can tell me what's wrong about that or set me straight as to what you understand.
Okay.
Which is, I came to this...
Information by way of Branson.
Right.
And he wrote a book, the Dulce book, on the internet.
Right.
We used to be in contact.
Okay.
And my understanding is that when Mark Richards started talking...
First of all, that information about Dulce started getting out there on the internet.
Right.
Okay?
And it was picked up everywhere and so on and so forth.
Then what I heard is that there was a guy named Mark Richards who suddenly was...
I don't know if he was already in prison when this happened, but he started speaking up about Dulcy and saying, yes, I was there.
Okay?
So, in what chronology did that happen?
So, you're saying he didn't go to prison, he wasn't framed, because I was kind of, maybe it just got merged together in my mind, but I thought he was thrown into jail and framed because of that.
No, he...
Gave me the report years.
He'd already been in prison several, many years, and I don't know when he exactly was asked to edit the report.
I know it was presented to the Joint Chiefs of Staff in 2001, so I don't think it happened right after the incident he was there or anything.
I'm not sure when it happened, but he wasn't.
And that happened in 79.
He was arrested in 82.
But he was never talking about this then.
He didn't start.
And he's never really talked publicly, obviously, because he can't because he's in prison.
Right.
He's edited this report and he's shared a few things with me.
But it's basically me putting the report out through my nonprofit and me speaking about certain things and just reading the report and talking to him a little bit about it.
But no, he was never out there publicly talking about it.
Branson, Branton, whatever his name is, had heard about my report, or the report that I have, and contacted me.
And we emailed a bit, and I allowed him to quote some things from the report on his internet thing.
And then I think he decided we weren't telling the truth.
Because he doesn't talk to me anymore.
Yeah, that's interesting.
Well, that's another whole issue that we could go into at some point.
But yes, to answer your question, Mark was not talking publicly and then got arrested.
Okay.
So then, can we be more specific about why you think he was framed?
Because it just, you know, doesn't make sense.
Like, did he go off the reservation?
You know, usually when they go after you, you've done something.
Right.
Well, if he did something specifically to really piss them off, he hasn't shared that.
I know he was always an honorable officer.
But he was also known as a bit of a rogue.
So if he was given orders that was totally off base, or he knew was totally wrong, or maybe he had different intelligence, I don't know, he would do what he thought was right.
But that doesn't mean he went around disobeying orders all the time either.
He followed his orders, but he was known to be a bit of a rogue.
Well, was his father still alive when he was arrested?
Yes.
His father didn't die until 1997.
Okay.
And what was his father's reaction to his Senate's arrest?
I think he was very shocked.
And again, the lawyer, because they didn't even think the government had any part in it at that point.
I think it was years later.
That they even thought that might be a possibility.
So initially, did he think that...
He just thought the kids made up this thing.
And he got framed by a bad...
Well, they killed somebody.
I know.
It was a very dreadful sounding story.
But are you saying that he was literally...
Come on, he's a military guy.
Military guys think...
They think strategy.
They think tactics.
It wouldn't have been his...
He had so much training, he wouldn't have, number one, if he had done that, he wouldn't have used two teenagers.
Well, that's not what I meant.
What I meant is, why wouldn't he have already questioned?
He must have known he had been praying for that moment.
Sure he did, but I mean, he knew they did something.
But again, he had this lawyer who was supposed to be working his case and, you know, was going to bring in all these expert witnesses and things to show that this investigation was done incorrectly and different legal, just normal legal things.
The lawyer did a lot of, you know, didn't do a lot of things he said he was going to do.
And I've read the transcript and said, oh, he should have objected to this, he should have objected to this.
Just in the light of normal...
Normal, everyday criminal cases, the lawyer did a lousy job, and he kept telling the family, oh, we're doing fine, we're doing fine, and everything's fine.
And then he's convicted.
Okay, but were you married when he was convicted?
No.
No.
Okay.
We met years later.
Okay, so I understand that maybe, I don't know, I mean, you've talked to him, obviously you're interacting with your husband, but...
What I'm trying to get at, just so you understand, and I'm not trying to offend you in any way.
I just want to understand, he must have realized that something was amiss.
When he was more or less framed, things went south and he ended up in jail for life or whatever.
And even his father must have questioned My son's not a murderer.
You get framed for murder, somebody has to sit there and go, why am I being framed for murder?
Right.
Right?
That's a no-brainer?
Right.
So that's kind of the question I'm asking.
Did he ever offer to your knowledge or explain to you what he thought was the rationale of why he would be framed at that time and place?
I'll say two things.
Yes, I will answer your question.
Number one, he has always sworn to me that he's never done what they charged him with.
And I've known him long enough to know he's telling me the truth.
And I've read all this stuff.
Number two, like I said, they didn't question any of this when it happened.
But he knows, because he's seen and known, and he's known who's come up through the ranks and been working with the New World Order, and he would be working directly in opposition to them.
So...
Why would he be?
Because the military that he worked with was not on the same page with the New World Order.
And that was true before this incident ever happened?
Before his arrest?
Yeah.
Oh yeah, yeah.
They grew up in the era of knights in shining armor type stuff and we save the women and children at all costs and we're the heroes and we're saving the planet from invading aliens.
So, I mean, that's really interesting.
So, what you're saying is, in a sense, see in my world, that they would be called White Hats at this point.
The New World Order?
No.
Oh, the good...
Your husband and whatever group of military he was part of.
Right, right.
We would call them White Hats.
I like that.
So, what I'm wondering is, way back then...
Because his father and he must have, you know, both being military guys, the father seeing the son framed, thrown in jail.
At that point, they must have either, first of all, they must have had warnings to some degree in advance of this.
And second of all, they must have known that this was an act of retribution or an aggressive act by a group of the Illuminati or whoever they were within the military.
To turn against itself, a portion of the military, because it was considered to be, you know, not following, you know, in the lockstep that they wanted them to.
In other words, it had to be rumblings, you know, it didn't just...
Sure, because, I mean, I have quotes in different reports that he's written, and...
You know, where they've bugged an office of certain businessmen or certain politicians, or it's like, how did you get that quote?
Oh, we've bugged everybody's office.
You know, but it's like, and in several incidences, they are talking about the Dutchman, my father-in-law, and the prince, my husband.
And it's like, well, and especially in like the 1978 thing, they're talking about, well, do you think, you know, those elite military guys, you know, they'll be able to thwart this thing because they were talking about the plot with the 1978 and the timeline issue and that kind of stuff.
So they knew their capability of their branch of the military and stuff and their groups and the international security people.
So I have other people quoting how good they were and the people who were against them.
The New World Order took people who knew what they were capable of and they were worried about them hoarding their plans.
Do I have any specific incident?
No, he hasn't related any one thing that has said this is what I did or what they think I did.
Well, has he talked about, I mean, I don't know if I'm the first person to go down this road, you know, questioning, you know what I mean?
Right.
I'm just curious, because if there's a political shift within the military, which there is right now, as a matter of fact, I mean, you know, there's a very strong, there are, you know, there are groups of the military which are basically kind of I think, from what I understand and the feedback I get, there are groups that are, you know, sort of putting their feet down and saying, no more.
We're not going along with this anymore.
And we're going to, you know, and they are making plans to actually, as you say, support some of the plans that are coming forward.
Some things that are as superficial as, no, we're not going out and arrest our own people.
No, we're not going out and do this and so, if that doesn't so happen.
But at the same time, if this happened back then, and this is the year 2001?
He was arrested in 82.
No, okay, so back in 82.
The bill they report was 2001.
Okay, oh right, okay, so this would be 79, 80, 80 to 82.
So during those years, there had to be some kind of shift, political shift, such that Apparently they never tried to frame the father, is that correct?
No.
So they never considered the father to be going outside the boxes.
But what happened to him?
Interestingly enough, he came back from a mission wounded and was being operated on at Letterman and it was made sure that he was fully paralyzed from the surgery.
And then, even though he was ill, you know, right up until the time of death, we believe he was poisoned at his nursing home.
Oh, you do.
Okay.
And when did he die?
February of 1997, six months before I met Mark.
97.
Okay.
Um...
So...
And I will say, too, that I don't know, he hasn't ever shared yet what he was involved with between 1980 and 82.
Because, you know, there's, like I said, there's a lot of time gaps, and there's a lot of stuff he can't tell me.
It's like, well, I know so much already.
It's like, yeah, but I was, you know, I was finishing one thing and going on to the next thing.
Like, oh, wow.
And so I would have to just ask him, you know, is there, you know, who did you, what did you, I know he was trying to retire because he was married at the time and he just thought, so now's a good time for me to retire and settle down.
Some people didn't want him to retire.
Some people wanted him to stay active, you know.
But again, he knew enough about who was New World Order type stuff and they really wanted him out of their hair.
Okay, so that's what I'm saying is that at this point there would have to be a good reason for them to have framed him.
I would like to go down that road and find out.
Because not only will it be interesting in his story, but it tells you a larger political story about the tenor of the times, so to speak.
And that's kind of the thread I'm following here.
Because I'm very interested in the...
The development of Space Command, the development of how we got here, and which countries and which sort of elements are in charge now, and kind of when somebody's been put to the wayside the way he has, in such a strong way all these years.
To where he's really, I don't know, at this point, this testimony is not considered to be, you know, like front and center.
You know, I don't think there are a lot of people out there taking it very seriously.
Meaning, the Mark Richards story.
Right.
And yet, it's always been on my mind as being something I wanted to pursue when I got the chance.
Because when I get a ring of truth, it sticks with me.
I'm like a dog with a bone.
I just stick with it for ages.
Unfortunately, when I do talk, especially when I'm overseas talking...
I feel like I'm with family because there's so much support there.
Number one, people convicted of murder here only get 12 years.
So the whole prison thing really upsets them.
Most everybody I meet there and speak to are totally accepting of the things I bring up and are fascinated with it.
Especially when I was talking about the England conference thing when he was at as a little kid.
Most of the people I talk to And I know there's people who don't believe me, and that's fine.
Most of them don't come up to me and say that.
So I hear that from all the scuttles, but that's fine, because I don't expect everybody to believe it.
But we say, well, then try and disprove it if you have a problem with it, and that's fine, and nobody has come up to me and disproved anything either.
So, like I said, I think I said, one of the things he does in any report he writes, yes, he shares the fun, adventure, science fiction sounding part of it, but he fills it with so much science and history and ties all the political stuff that was going on around all that stuff together so that even though the reports I have are,
some of them are only condensed versions at this point because they're really long and I can start scanning them out or Somebody has to type them because the 2,000 pages were handwritten.
You know, they're full of things that will tie it all together, and he does, especially with the stuff we have about the Middle East and Central Asia, he ties in a very political timeline about stuff before 9-11 leading up to, and, okay, this is why this guy's a scapegoat, and Lenita hears what's going on, and says, He does have the ability to tie things together, and he does have the current contact, so he does keep on top of world events very heavily.
Okay, when you say he has current contact...
I don't know who they are.
Okay.
Yes, people do talk to him.
There are several of us who do background research for him, and that's all good, but he does...
When he wrote stuff about Iran and Afghanistan, I mean, he's got quotes from Kurdish leaders that he knows personally that were communicating with him in prison, He used, and I don't doubt that he still does, but he would get sealed envelopes and packets from people at the Pentagon that the prison people were not allowed to read.
Okay.
So, you know, I don't know who they are because if they're alive, I'm not allowed to know their names because that means they're still involved and he can't break their cover or, you know, I'm not allowed to know.
But you should see.
Alright.
But I mean, he also has, you know, he gets signed stuff from the president and, you know, he's...
People know who he is.
George Bush knows exactly who he is.
He would have never allowed them out of prison.
They're not friends.
I'm happy to say my husband punched George Bush in the face one year in Texas at an officer's club.
George was acting like an idiot and...
Okay, are we talking about George being a senior?
I don't think a senior in the face could have gone over...
No, no, senior, when he was head of the CIA, and I know we're getting away from Tulsa, but senior, when he was head of the CIA, One of Mark's squads was supposed to be in the Bermuda Triangle dealing with something drug related.
I don't know if it was protecting the drugs that the CIA were running, you know, something.
I don't know.
Well, they refused to do that.
They just were not going to go down that road.
And at some point, Senior Bush ordered them to be killed.
My husband's like a cat with nine lives.
He hasn't been killed yet and he's been seriously murdered many times.
Okay, just out of curiosity, there must be other officers who served with him, right?
Right.
And I assume those people are not stepping up, right?
They're either dead or they're not stepping up.
I know of three junior astronauts who were with him in 1979.
At both the space mission that I mentioned and at Dulce, two have died in shuttle accidents, or one shuttle accident, maybe they were together, and one died in a mysterious car accident.
So a lot of the people he has worked with are dead or in prison or hiding.
And the others that are not dead are probably still active.
They're not going to step up.
Let me ask you this.
You said he was married before he met you.
Right.
Did he have any children?
Not with her, but he has several children with other women.
Okay.
And are they, you know, are any of them serving in the military at this point?
No, they all live overseas in different countries.
So some of them serve in the military in their own countries.
We have one who's a high level officer in the French military and one's in the Moroccan military.
And they're aware of where their father is and the situation?
They are and several of his children talk to him and write him and he's in contact with most of them.
He's got several grandchildren so he talks to some of them.
We swap grandchildren stories regularly because I have a daughter and a few grandchildren.
You know, our visits are primarily sitting about, you know, what do we need to do at the house?
You know, what's falling apart now?
What are the grandchildren doing?
And, oh yeah, do you need any information before your talk that you're about to get a type of stuff?
Okay.
It's pretty run-of-the-mill family stuff.
Okay, so just to get back to this whole sort of scenario, so somehow he was framed, he was then put into jail, and his sentence was 30 years?
Life without parole.
Life without parole.
And then doesn't at some, even people that have life without parole, don't they get some kind of thing where they then appeal or do some kind of...
First appeal was denied.
The state habeas was denied.
He had a lawyer when I met him who was supposed to be working on his federal habeas.
Turned out to be a guy who was frauding my husband and several other inmates.
Took thousands of dollars from all of us.
And that's why I thought when we first met, oh, we'll be out in a couple years because this guy's working on his habeas and we have this long list of points and la la la la la.
Well, that was, you know, it didn't work out.
The interesting thing which I keep trying to push on somebody to pursue for us is that the laws on the books at the time of his arrest was that people with life without parole sentences, after 12 or 15 years of good time, Their sentences would be reduced to like 15 or 25 to life and you'd be eligible for parole hearings.
Wilson's administration repealed all that retroactively.
It's like, I don't know how they could do that.
Retroactively, I could see them doing it.
Okay, from this time forward, that's not going to happen.
So there are thousands...
Wilson.
Governor Wilson in California.
Yeah, Governor Wilson.
Yeah, that was the right one.
So right now, I mean, just on a California political level, there are thousands of people who are in that time frame.
Now, yes, many of them have not served 25 to 30 years of good behavior, and they need to stay there a little bit longer, but there's at least 1,200 that they can identify that are done 25 plus years.
They're all old now.
You know, many of them have health problems that are costing the state millions of dollars over here.
And they should have been coming up for parole and they could go home.
They just want to go home with their grandchildren.
They don't want to go do anything bad.
So just on a whole non-military, you know, forgetting that other side of it, it's like, they could be saving the state millions of dollars.
Okay, well, no, that's very interesting.
Okay.
So, let me tell you just offhand.
Sure.
I have, I do this thing called live stream.
Uh-huh.
And I can also do audio interviews over the internet.
Okay.
And audio interviews just over the phone, for that matter.
Great.
So I could actually interview him anytime he's ready to call me.
You know, in other words, I don't have to, he doesn't have to, we don't have to worry about me meeting his schedule.
I mean, him meeting, meeting mine.
I can meet his.
So just so you know, that's an open offer.
Thank you.
He would like to do that.
And I think one reason, well, the other sad part about it is all the calls are recorded.
Sure.
So, while the prison people know he was in the military, they don't know this part of it.
Right.
We try not to let them know because, you know, they don't need to know this side of it.
Okay, but what I would actually put forward at this time is that this might be the opportune thing that could help his cause.
You know, I don't know if you followed the case of Gary McKinnon.
A little bit.
Okay.
You know, he's the hacker that hacked into the Pentagon and the NASA computers and all of that.
I know the name, but yeah.
And they've been keeping him in England and trying to make sure he wouldn't be extradited and forced to stand trial in America because they think that he'd end up in Guantanamo or a high-security prison where he would never get out for the rest of his life or be tortured or worse.
Well, I interviewed Gary, yes.
Good, okay.
I went to England and interviewed him in the early days.
So the thing is that, but this is kind of the crux of the matter.
Okay.
What happened was the mother, who is a wonderful, Janice Sharp is her name, has gone to bat for her son.
And actually the British people have also come out, various celebrities and so on, to support his cause.
But the one thing that he never did so far...
Their argument, their defense is that he has Asperger's Syndrome.
Okay.
Okay.
And therefore he was naive and therefore he kind of like was socially inept and so on and so forth.
And also that he shouldn't serve time in prison as a result of his crime.
And he didn't really know what he was doing, blah, blah, blah.
But what I have always...
What I've sort of tried to persuade them of is that they've never...
See, you must understand that the last thing a major court wants is to try somebody who's going to come, their defense being that they were part of the secret space program.
Because then you have to say, well, where's the evidence?
And then we'll bring the evidence, and here we have the whole thing out in court.
And so, in a sense, what I would say to you and to Mark, he's perfect because he has nothing to lose.
Because obviously they're not doing anything now to move things along.
So why not come forward with the very things they don't want him to talk about?
And what will happen is they'll do one of two things.
I mean, I'm going to be honest.
They will either knock him off or they will release him to shut him up.
I mean, this is a, you know, I'm just hypothetically throwing this out.
So you can consider this whole, it's because of where we're at.
Right.
Okay?
We are right at the verge of, as you can maybe appreciate, being on the speaking circuit, where people are starting to recognize, and certainly Project Hamlet is like the avant-garde of all of this, where...
The secret space program and the fact that there's a cabal running the world, let alone the United States, you see where I'm going with this.
In other words, these kinds of things are coming out.
And so the last thing they want to do is, I guess, allow that to happen even more so, but at the same time, So sitting on that information when it could defend you or bring your case into the public eye, actually that's counterproductive at this time for all parties.
So I'm just throwing out the idea and I'm just offering Camelot's help in that regard.
Thank you.
Because we certainly do have a platform.
We're a grassroots organization at this point and we have quite a substantial following.
So, and there are many people that want to see the truth about what's really going on.
And the crux of the matter, when it comes to alien disclosure, whatever you want to call it, is the secret space program.
And clearly, your husband has been part of that program.
Okay?
So, this is where the rubber meets the road, and maybe there's somewhere we can go down that road.
Cool.
Okay?
Yes.
I will tell him you want to talk to him.
Okay, very good.
All right.
Well, thank you very much, Joanne.
Thank you so much.
Absolutely.
Well, it's been a pleasure to meet you after all these years.
I know.
I've been waiting anxiously to meet you.
And there we have it.
So we'll do some more about this again in the future, and we'll follow this road if you can.
Thank you so much.
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