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March 29, 2012 - Project Camelot
01:07:57
PROJECT CAMELOT : CHUCK WADE : BEYOND ROSWELL
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Transcription by CastingWords
Transcription by CastingWords Carrie Cassidy.
...from Project Camelot.
And we're at the Phoenix UFO Congress and it is Friday the 25th of February 2011.
And...
We have a reputation as guerrilla filmmakers grabbing opportunities as they are presented to us and one of the opportunities that was presented to us just a few hours ago was when entirely by happenstance we bumped into Chuck Wade and personally I am delighted at this synchronicity because he is in a very strong position to straighten out A lot of the confusions that I had,
and I'm sure many people watching this video have had, About exactly what happened back in the years 1945 to 1947, with a number of UFO crashes in New Mexico.
What happened?
When did it happen?
Who knew about it?
What was the sequence?
And what were the connections back there?
And Chuck has devoted many years to investigating a timeline there of a two-year period.
Three.
A three-year period.
It was about 48.
Through to 48.
That's correct, March of 48.
Okay.
And just a few hours ago over the dinner table, I personally ticked off one of my minor lifetime ambitions, which was to handle with my own hands some UFO crash debris.
And this is something that we're also going to have on camera today.
It's a fascinating story.
Chuck.
Absolutely.
Now, before you start, what I want to do is talk about...
Just anecdotally, how we met, because I have to say that how we met is very interesting in light of what an amazing person you are.
It's very instructive.
Yeah, it sort of shows how things happen in the way of Camelot, that we're very lucky.
We had just been hearing, I think it was Rich Dolan talk here at the UFO Congress.
And I was on my way out.
I had a couple things in my hands.
I wanted to throw something away.
And your reflexes were very quick.
And what you did, you were very gentlemanly.
And I saw that I was coming up on the trash can, and you actually stopped Got out of my way and said, go right ahead.
And I threw the thing away.
And I immediately picked up that that was unusual, that that was very gentlemanly of you.
So I actually turned to you and I just kind of said, you know, how's your day going?
Did you enjoy that?
That sort of thing.
And one of the first things out of his mouth was that I've been in the military for a number of years.
And then you sort of launched into some interesting information.
And I turned to you at some point.
Quickly after that, and I said, do you know who I am?
And I thought, because this is so interesting that this person out of the blue would be talking like this to me, and I just knew that you didn't know who I was.
And here I am, you know, Gary Cassidy from Project Camelot, and then I told you, and of course you didn't know anything about Camelot, and that's understandable.
Some people do, some people don't.
That's life.
But what was really fascinating is that then you started telling me the anecdotes about your father, And about Brazil.
And so on.
And so from there, we really found out more about who you are.
And then you tell me you have, you know, actual UFO, evidence of a UFO having crashed.
It's amazing.
And then Kerry comes to me and says, you've got to talk to this guy who I just met.
And here we are.
And I think it's wonderful.
I'm glad I'm here.
Thank you.
Right on.
Thank you, Kerry.
So, Chuck, would you tell the people watching this, and there are going to be tens, maybe even hundreds of thousands of people who have the opportunity to watch this.
You are on stage now.
You've got the mic.
Okay.
So, tell them a little bit about yourself, about your background, about what has brought you into this private investigation to find answers for yourself which you want to share.
What a wonderful opportunity.
And I'd like to start with the birth of my father, February the 2nd, 1902, in the Dallas-Fort Worth area of Texas.
That was one year before the Wright brothers flew the airplane.
And here we are talking about past tense of UFOs and the future tense of UFOs.
Dad went through the third grade in Texas, and then he and his parents...
Loaded him and their belongings onto a horse-drawn covered wagon and came to New Mexico as homesteaders.
And they homesteaded just east of Corona, New Mexico, about 15 miles or so.
In 1934, Dad bought the bar in Corona.
And the bar is mentioned in many of the books about the Wade bar and all.
And he had that bar for 42 years, and he closed it out in 1976.
And it was in 1947.
Dad was standing there at the door, and here came Matt Brazel in an old pickup truck, and he was really ticked off.
Somebody had scattered stuff all over his ranch out there, and he needed some help to clean it up.
It was a mess.
And what was so important about that mess out there is that he was a sheep herder for the fosters.
The sheep was on this side of the mess.
The water was on this side.
If those sheep don't get water, they die.
And they would not cross the debris.
And it's too far around.
He had a major problem.
So...
He wanted Dad to go out to see what was out there and maybe even help take it apart or put it back together, whatever it was.
Dad didn't go.
So then Mac Brazel went up to the drugstore and talked to the people up there, Archie and his wife.
And he wanted those folks to go out to see what was out there.
And they chose not to do.
But Mrs.
Perkins got on the telephone and made a call to Roswell.
And therefore Mack went to Roswell and reported that debris junk out there to Sheriff Wilcox there at Roswell.
And from then on, we can go away with that.
And for many years after that balloon hoax was in the paper, it basically died.
And then the book, The Roswell Incident, came out in 1980.
And I read the book.
A friend of mine actually loaned me his book, and then I ordered my own book.
And there it was in print about a crash there by Corona.
And then also there's a crash over in the plains in Augustine, but I wasn't worried about that because I never even heard it until that book showed up.
But there that stuff was in Corona, in that book, of stuff I'd heard about all my life.
Mac Brazel's son, Bill Brazel, I knew him and his wife, Shirley, that come in the bar and have lots of drinks.
And then the youngest Brazel boy was Vernon, and he was a couple years older than I, and he and I played around together, and I'm sure we talked about the UFO. Had to have.
I don't recall any statements, but we had to.
I was really interested.
And then also, I have a first cousin, Tommy Tyree, He was also a ranch hand out there on the Foster Ranch and other ranches around there.
And he was quite a bit older than I was.
I was at 7 in 1947.
But Tommy, over the years, told me probably 30 different stories about what happened.
And I think what it was that they had told him and put the fear of God in Tommy that if he ever told, he would die.
Now that's my interpretation, because I wanted to know for all those years, and every time he's over here and over there, and it was just, he never told me, quote, the truth.
But Chuck, you told me that actually you did ask your father whether it was real or not, No, it was not my dad.
It was Bill Brazel.
Dad mentioned what I just told you many times, and that's as far as he ever went.
And before that accident, my dad and Mac would, well, they're good friends and all, but after Mac came back from Roswell, he never mentioned that crash again.
But what happened is, in the book, The Roswell Incident, there was a picture of Bill Brazel with a caption under it, and this caption said that Bill Brazel had parts and pieces that he had found out on the Foster Ranch, because he took over after his dad left.
So Mac became, I'm sorry, Bill became the ranch foreman of the Foster Ranch.
And Bill had parts and pieces in my dad's bar, And two or three days later, here came the military out to the ranch, and they just didn't take no for an answer.
They took his stuff, and he never got it back.
And there it was, in writing, that he had stuff.
So I immediately called up Bill over in Capitan, because I've known him for many years.
And we talked quite a bit.
My mother, sadly, she had passed away two years before the book came out.
And, I'm sorry, my father passed away two years before the book came out.
Dad passed away in 1978.
And I read, well, first off, Bill wanted to know how my mother was doing because my dad had just passed away.
And we had a nice chat.
And then I said, Bill, I've got this book with a caption in it.
And then I read the caption about him having the parts and pieces in Dad's bar.
And I asked Bill point blank, Bill, is this true?
And he said yes.
That was 1981.
That was 30 years ago.
And folks, I have been on a quest for the last 30 years to find out what happened.
And over the years, there's been a lot of books coming out, but I noticed over the years that the books made less and less sense.
But I wasn't really...
I read them, I looked at them and all, but what really changed my life And I went to the Aztec Symposium in Aztec, New Mexico in 2004.
And Mr.
Art Campbell from the state of Oregon was the presenter.
And there Art had on stage parts and pieces from the UFO that crashed on the plains of San Augustine.
Now when did that happen?
Very specifically, it happened the night of between the 1st and the 2nd of July 1947.
And this was two days before the crash that everyone talks about as being the Roswell crash.
That is correct.
That happened about 11 o'clock on July the 4th Night.
Over by Corona.
And we'll get to it.
But there wasn't just one crash at Corona.
There were three crashes at Corona.
Possibly four.
So I'm going to talk a little bit about the fourth one because it's under investigation now.
But three of them, I am quite sure that I can tell you what happened.
Simultaneous crashes.
Exactly.
Within three seconds of each.
And you want to go on to that part now?
Or stay with planes?
Stay with your own...
Okay, let's stay with the planes.
Because what happened is that Art had Parts and pieces, not only just foil, he also had a little shoe sole that is four and seven inch inches long, but in the end step is an inch and an eighth wide, and it's made out of seven layers of cloth and two layers of waterproofing or glue or something, but it's a vegetable-based glue, not oil-based.
And on that same subject, he also had wax that was oil-based wax.
It's about a quarter inch thick, and it's made out of vegetable oil, not petroleum oil.
And also, at times, you can read in books where the inside of a craft looks like it's made out of wax.
We are reasonably sure it is made out of wax, or has a wax coating.
We have the wax.
But anyway, whenever Art said he was done with his talk, he stepped off stage and we shook hands.
I was right there to meet that gentleman.
And we went to lunch and had a good time.
And we became good friends.
And over time, we decided we'd have an archaeological dig at the plains of San Augustine.
Up until that time, just he and his wife had been there and dug.
Now, let me just back up a fraction here to give you some context.
Art Campbell had primarily been interested in that one crash, is that right?
Basically, that only one, and like I just mentioned, he's from the state of Oregon, and they had been back east someplace and had a little time on the hand, so they just was going to New Mexico and had read the Roswell incident, That's pretty close to Socorro and where the plains is.
Let's just go over there and look for it.
And they looked and they looked and several years later they were still looking.
And then he found the person that led him to where it was at.
And then over the years he and his wife went down there on vacation from the state of Oregon several times.
I can't say exactly how many times.
But they started finding stuff and kept finding stuff.
And at what point did Art realize that this was a different incident, this was a different event from the Roswell crash?
I understand the question, but I don't know that.
But for sure it had to have been a different one from over there.
But I'm not sure how he knew that.
But it's when you listened to Art's presentation that you just described that you realized, it's like, wait a minute, we've got another one here.
Well, I'd read the book that there was a crash on the San Augustine, and I didn't know that it wasn't the one by Corona that the Roswell incident met.
I had no way of knowing that it wasn't there.
But once I knew exactly where that thing hit, I got to looking around, and there's no way that the military could have found it.
That plane to San Augustine is roughly a thousand square miles with great big mountains around it.
That's about, well, about the size of the state of Rhode Island.
And they found that thing the next day after it landed.
And why, I'm getting a little bit of it all put together, but where I came up with this, As the archaeologist, and we know exactly who the archaeologist was from Cambridge, Harvard.
And he was a graduate student at that time, and he had some students there on the Bat Cave, which is really an ancient cave that used to be next to the water line.
Now it's up on the side of the hill because the water drained out.
But he was over there.
At that cave.
And they physically told, seeing this thing coming in the night before, they thought it was a meteor.
The next morning they looked over and there's all this stuff gleaning.
They thought it's a plane crash.
So they came across the planes.
Prior to that, the Anderson family had come from Albuquerque, and they were specifically looking for moss agate.
So they was out there looking around, and then they looked down in this little ravine.
It's not very big.
Nothing out there is very big except the big mountains.
And they saw this UFO down there.
So the Anderson family, Gerald Anderson, his cousin, about a year older, his older brother was home on leave, his dad and his uncle.
They were there looking it over, and here came the archaeologist.
And then also Barney Barnett, who worked for the Natural Resource Conservation Service, or whatever his name was back in those days.
But he worked for the...
For the government.
And he was coming from this ranch to this ranch on the back roads.
In order to go from that ranch, you go way out here to the road and back around.
So he was out there on the plains going from A to B. And there it was.
He was there.
And this is from Gerald Anderson, personally.
Gerald is a good friend of mine now.
And he said that they were all standing there looking at the craft and talking among themselves.
And then they heard...
A motor's coming, and here came a military staff car, and behind it had a deuce and a half with canvas on the back, and out of that deuce and a half here came a bunch of MPs with guns and surrounded the civilians.
And folks, this is what really got Gerald Teed off.
They were surrounded.
Here's a UFO that nobody on earth had been close to.
The military didn't pay no attention.
They knew what it was.
They knew what it was.
That was 1947.
This is two days before the crash that everyone calls the Roswell crash in a different part of New Mexico.
And we're talking two separate incidents.
Exactly.
And actually there's more to come, which Chuck's going to tell us about.
Would it be helpful to at least raise up the map?
Yes.
Okay, the map is, the top is north, and New Mexico is basically square.
Let's just move this a little bit in your direction.
Okay, New Mexico is basically square.
Corona is basically really close to the center of the state.
What we call the Roswell incident happened about 30 miles southeast of Corona.
And I'll just go ahead and mention the other ones.
The Haak Corso site was north of Roswell, about 30 miles.
And then there's a Jim Ragsdale site that is 53 miles west of Roswell.
So these three guys over here, we'll talk later.
The plains of San Augustine is over here.
About 200 miles.
And per the book, the Roswell incident, this craft and that craft ran together and that one landed over here and this one landed here.
There's no way in hell that could have really happened.
Not only were the days apart, they found it in this side right here within 12 hours.
You cannot see to ground inside of this big bowl.
They had some radars possibly, in fact they did have, down there on the White Sandus and Whistle Range up here at Oscuro Peak, and then they had some up here at Albuquerque, but they were old, but never you're looking at a radar over a mountain, Here from White Sands and over here from Albuquerque, you can't see the ground.
They found that thing in the ground in the morning after that happened.
What happened, folks, is Whenever they put in Los Alamos National Laboratory, they'd install three major high-powered radars to guard the skies over Los Alamos.
They didn't have surface-stair missiles.
They didn't have guns that'd shoot up there.
They didn't have fighter planes like that.
They put in these major, major radars to guard the skies of Los Alamos.
One of them was up here at El Vado, one at Continental Divide, and one here at Moherty, and here's Los Alamos.
So that would guard the skies over.
But the one here in Morarity was a mobile unit.
And El Vado, they've got pictures of it as of today.
The two-story barracks is still there.
The chow hall is there.
And more importantly is the building they had these majorly big generators to put the electricity into these radars.
They had four major Generators there.
And other than that, there wasn't any electricity in there.
So they couldn't hook onto a wire and go anyplace.
But anyway, what they did, they took this mobile unit from where it is and took it inside of this big bowl here.
And I feel that the military knew that there was a UFO in there.
Because whenever they got out here, they could be seen by the radars.
But if they ducked down inside of that mountain, that was their Motel 6.
So they brought this unit into there, reached up and...
And electrified that electromagnetic craft, and it came down in flames, crashed.
Aren't you suggesting that the UFO was going into some kind of a base there?
No, no, not a base.
It was just to hide out of, from the radar, from the white sand missile base.
Like to duck out of the way.
Yeah, just duck out of the way.
Because there'd be at least two, three thousand feet in there that, from the top of the mountain to the...
What that implies, of course, is that the military knew that the radar could be used as an offensive weapon, that it was never intended for.
Can you back up on that?
Because there must have been some incident where they discovered that it could be used as a weapon.
And they did that.
Right here at San Antonio.
And Paula Harris, as we speak, is doing research on this.
There's Trinity Site, just a necessary area here.
Trinity Site is on July the 16th, 1945, they exploded the first experimental atomic bomb.
Right here is San Antonio.
One month later, they had a radar that reached up and that came down.
Now, it's not these big ones up here, or may not have been, but they touched that one with some sort of radar and it crashed.
And that was an accident.
No, I don't think so.
It could have been.
I don't understand how anyone would, at that point in 1945, these are in chronological sequence, right?
I don't understand how the military would have known that radar could be used to bring down UFOs unless they had a lucky hit to start with.
Maybe they did, or maybe they brought the one down from Moriarty to get this guy that was messing with Trinity.
I don't know.
I think if you remember the Nazis came up from Paperclip and that they were operating there in the 1940s.
They could know that from Germany.
I think that this was prior to paperclip.
I really do.
But this one right here is brought down by Radar, and there's two eyewitnesses to it, and Paula Harris has interviewed them, there's YouTubes, and I talked to her just today about it.
But I really don't know much about that, because it's not my...
But I do know a lot about this one.
And once this thing, they reached up, and it made a flash, and the archaeologists physically saw it come to ground.
That's important.
Because whenever it's coming to ground, they were able to take these little spotting radars and triangulate and found out exactly where that thing was.
That's a vast area up there.
And so whenever the military came and surrounded the civilians and then walked them up to the highway, whenever the civilians got up there, the military had come in, With a flatbed truck, a crane, a bulldozer, a bunch of trucks with supplies and all that, a lot of men.
And Gerald Anderson said it looked like an invasion force.
How in the hell did the military get together a flatbed truck and a crane overnight?
There's no wind.
They just couldn't do it.
This thing was planned.
Just one moment.
Are you getting all of this on your frame?
Everything?
Okay, thanks.
Just while we've got this up and we're looking at the big picture here, can you just point at these incidents and give us the dates?
Okay, the first one here was August 1945.
This one out here the night of the 1st or the 2nd of July 1947.
These three, 4, 5 and 6, was about 11 o'clock on July the 4th.
In 1947, and this one up here was in March 1948.
Okay, what about that one down there?
Okay, Chuck Zilkowski, a little friend of mine, his sister Debbie Zigamar, are investigating this one.
And what it is, July of last year, 2010, They showed a DVD at the Roswell get-together on the 4th of July of a lady saying that they had lived on a ranch out here and they were moving into Roswell that weekend, July the 4th, 1947.
And there was a lot of military people on their property.
They wouldn't say why.
But the more I study about this, there had to be another crash.
There's a guy by the name of Frank Kaufman, and some people are going to cringe whenever I say that.
I believe his story.
But I do too.
Because he's also in intelligence, and he got things mixed up.
Yes.
Intentionally.
Because until Walter Haught, here at the Haught Corso site, Until that affidavit came out that said that the size of it was about 15 foot long, not quite as wide, and 6 foot high.
Kauffman said that his was about 25 feet.
Well, I have a photograph that is said to be the original photograph of that crash disk.
I'll show it to you.
Which is at the Kauffman site.
I showed that to Don Schmidt, and Don Schmidt didn't know, because it's the Kaufman site, therefore it's the fake.
Yeah.
It's quite interesting.
They could have been down here.
So this is...
Wait, wait, wait.
This is...
No, no.
This isn't on here.
This is a totally separate thing.
This is the Kaufman site, is what you're saying.
Okay.
Now, the...
What people talk about as being the Roswell crash, you're saying that this is the conglomerate of four, five and six together.
Is that what you're saying?
I think that what they call the Roswell crash now is four.
Four.
Okay.
Because that was a little bitty thing, and they've crated it up, and two or three years ago, there's a guy that was an old man showed up that he said that he was a forklift driver that took that crate from inside and loaded it here.
So they could put a 14-foot crate into a bomber, I believe.
But that's the one where they had most of an intact crack.
It was almost intact, with a crack in it with foil around it.
And which is the debris field?
This one is here.
Okay.
And this here had a lot of debris.
It started out as a fan, wound up about 200 yards wide, and three-quarters of a mile long.
And are you saying that these were two craft in two Separate incidents which happened at the same time.
In three seconds.
Yes, sir.
I got it.
And there had to be a craft there because this one was almost intact.
There's truckloads of stuff here.
They couldn't leave truckloads here and have it intact.
So where were the beams?
Out of which one?
There's two or three places.
This one right over here on the plains of San Augustine, Gerald Anderson said there was a totally alive alien, a very hurt alive alien, and two dead aliens.
Yes.
And he describes this incredible story.
He gave an interview.
Which we can reference when we publish this.
Okay.
And he describes how this alien was terrified.
Yeah.
That's whenever the military showed up.
Absolutely.
It went crazy when the military came up.
Yes.
And the way he told that story was so real to me, I found it extremely hard to disbelieve it.
I've been right there when he told me.
And he also did that on stage at my UFO film festival two years ago.
And he's real.
Would it be possible for you to introduce him to us?
I'd love to.
And he would love to meet you.
Good.
Because he's right at 70.
I just turned 71.
And he wants his story told.
I would like to meet him.
And I'll tell you what, it's a disgrace what's happened to him.
Yeah.
Well, his story's been smeared and trashed, and he's been discredited, and he's probably pretty unhappy.
Oh, he's extremely.
But also, there's another one, a craft here that's six, is the Jim Anderson crash.
And Jim and his girlfriend are having a good time up on the side of the Capitan Mountain, near Pine Lodge, And they saw this major, major flash out there.
Per affidavit, Jim says it looked like a welder's torch.
And then it made all this, it was trailing flames behind it, and never got close.
It was making a hell of a noise.
And then it came over, it went through the trees and crashed.
And they waited a little while and went over there.
Jim got into the craft and tried to pull the helmet off, couldn't get it.
But there's four dead aliens in it.
You see, the significance of this, just in a summary, is that a lot of these stories have been dismissed because they seem to be contradictory.
It's like, how can all these people be describing the same thing but they're not describing the same thing?
And Jim has been discredited because he absolutely, without a fact, signed two sworn statements, affidavits.
The first one right after he came out, he didn't come to them.
He saw it on TV or something and he said, that's not right.
So he came forward and he signed an affidavit saying this thing hit north.
Of Roswell.
So some of these investigators spent a couple years out there looking north.
Before he died, he signed a second affidavit saying it was 53 miles west.
Totally makes sense because there's lots of trees up there.
There's water.
There's a nightclub.
I mean, it makes sense.
They wouldn't have a good time.
The name of this video, folks, is The Naked Truth Jim Ragsdale Story.
And then he's telling his daughter five days before he died what happened.
And his son-in-law was filming.
It's fabulous.
Are you saying that he lied originally?
He absolutely did.
But why he did that, he was convinced if he told anybody the truth, they'd kill him.
Or his daughter.
Because he had heard all these rumors.
And they had told them, Andrews and their family, if you tell anybody, we're going to kill you.
They told Sheriff Wilcox's family if they got anybody, they're going to kill them.
And that's exactly what they did say back then.
And they did.
They're going to put your bones out there and you'll never find them.
They meant it.
So therefore, he was scared.
What about your father, do you think, or grandfather, do you think they said that to him?
I don't know.
I doubt it, though, because they may not even know that he knew about it.
Okay.
Because he didn't tell a whole heck of a lot of people.
Well, he did in the bar, but, you know, I don't think so.
Let me ask you a question that other people will want us to ask.
The military response from Roswell Field to the incident that's been known as the Roswell, when they retrieved an almost fully intact craft, which you're telling me is this one.
They seem to have been taken by surprise by that.
Which needs to be squared with the fact that a couple of days earlier, you've got a whole task force here who went out to grab this thing and they knew exactly what they had.
What's your explanation for people who say, well, look, it sounds as if they were behaving like a Roswell.
They didn't know what to do.
They weren't prepared.
They didn't know how to handle this.
They had no plan in place.
What's your response to that?
thank you for asking because this is going to clear up the Roswell incident there's about 50 lines of thought Okay, what happened is, and by two kids that have come forward, and Art Campbell's hunted them out, there were three flashes.
And these kids were in the seat of their car with their mother driving from Carlsbad up here.
And they were going along, and there were three flashes at night.
And they said those flashes were big enough to light up the desert and the mountains.
That's a lot of energy, folks.
And what happened is, there's three flashes.
Flash, three seconds flash, three seconds another flash.
Okay, just, I don't know which one, there's no way to know.
But the first one, let's say, is right here at the hot Corso site.
And let's say it's going along, it flashed and went down.
These little primitive spotting radars did not lock on.
They may have thought they hit a motor off of it.
There's no telling what they thought, if they thought at all.
But they did not go to ground.
The same with Corona.
There's a flash and it went to ground.
They basically did not know they had hit it.
Therefore, the civilians told the military about this one here, the one over by Corona.
Mac Brazel came to Roswell and told them about it.
What's important now is the sixth one.
The sixth one is Jim Ragsdale, and they have done everything they can to destroy that man because he's an eyewitness to a craft.
Whenever that third flash hit and it's trailing that fire for a long ways, like 25 miles, those little primitive spotting radars latched onto that and went to ground in the forest over there.
They knew where it hit.
Therefore, whenever Jim and his girlfriend was there that morning, picking up stuff, here came the military.
They had time to latch on to try and get to it.
These other two, they didn't know they hit it.
They weren't looking.
This Jim Ragsdale is in the hell of a forest, and my brother and I, in the daytime with a map, had trouble finding it.
These other two over here are out in the middle of nowhere.
I mean, you could see it for 25 miles.
They weren't looking.
How does that explain that they released an article in the newspaper originally saying there really was a crash, it was a saucer, and then later got wise and put out the disinfo store?
Okay, and it's cleared up in the affidavit of Walter Haught.
And Walter Haught signed this affidavit in 02 to be released upon his death.
And he said that in that affidavit that the commanding officer, Colonel Blanchard, dictated to him this whatever he put in the newspaper.
And what it was, A disguise because many people knew about the crash over here by Corona.
I'm sorry.
Over here.
By Corona.
They knew that one by Corona.
So a lot of people knew about it.
So they put that in the paper saying they knew about it.
People did not know about this intact one.
So this was a diversion to keep people away from four to have five.
I've heard that.
Yes, that's right.
And it's in the affidavit.
Yes.
But the question that Kerry was asking, which is also the one that I was asking, is...
Is Roswell Field seemed to be genuinely taken by surprise?
Oh, definitely.
Absolutely.
Whereas here, a couple of days before, there's evidence that whichever unit went to this incident site, they were fully prepared, and as you said, they knew exactly what they had.
Well, they took the radar unit from here over there, and I'm going to...
Now, I don't know where it came from.
Well, I'm going to say it came from California.
They didn't have nothing to do with Roswell.
Therefore, they took that thing there back to California or up here to Albuquerque or Los Alamos.
I don't know where it went.
Are you suggesting then that this was a different unit that handled this?
Absolutely, totally different unit.
And the Roswell guys might not even have known about this.
Oh, they didn't know anything.
Therefore, whenever they caught Jim Ragsdale, they went to ground with it, to the side of that mountain, with the little radars.
Therefore, they had the flatbed trunks and the cranes.
They went up there and picked it up.
They didn't tell Roswell's zilch.
And they took that sucker away.
But Roswell was caught by surprise with a Mac Brazel from the Corona site, and this one over here.
They didn't know they got it.
They weren't looking for it.
Let me connect the dots here.
So what actually happened was that this was new to Roswell when they put out the press release.
And then it went all the way up to the Pentagon, didn't it, with General Ramey.
And he must have known about everything.
He said, wait a minute, you've got to change your story.
I have no idea what it is.
But it came from somebody on high, whether it's a president or the big guy, I don't know where it came from.
But there's somebody who had a...
Somebody knew the whole thing.
Somehow you're saying, though, in that area of the country, the military wasn't really as sort of alert and up to speed on recovering these crafts, so they weren't prepared.
First of all, they didn't know they hid it, as you said, right?
And so that's key, because they weren't prepared.
But then when they...
When the word got back to them that they had found something, had it already gone to press before the military was hip to it, or it went to press right with that small group of military, but it didn't...
In other words, the word came down to close down that story.
It was after there was being...
Because they were operational.
They went, they got those bodies, right?
There was a nurse in that base.
Here at Roswell.
And that's the one that Glen Dennis...
Well, Glen Dennis has been discredited.
Did you all know that?
He's discredited.
Disgusting!
What happened is that Glen Dennis told the nurse...
He was the mortician.
Yeah, the mortician.
The mortician told the nurse that he would never diverge her name.
These guys put the pressure on them, so he finally gave them Sally Jane or something.
He gave a false name.
Yeah, a false name.
And they looked and looked.
They hooked the world over for Sally Jane.
She didn't exist.
Therefore, Glenn Dennis is a damn liar.
He can't believe a thing and he didn't see nothing and he didn't even, well, Glenn Dennis and Walter Haught Put together and made the UFO Museum in Roswell.
And now Walter Haught's daughter, Julie, is the director there.
And they say that he's disgustingly disqualified.
That's a disgusting statement in itself.
Yes, I understand.
Because Glenn Dennis did the right thing by his girlfriend, or friend, by not diverging her name.
Yes, I got it.
Therefore, he's correct.
Yes.
What we will do when we release this, we'll write up a timeline.
Because this is quite confusing information.
It's been confusing enough to keep people confused for many years.
And there's some indication that some parties have been very happy for it to stay confusing.
I think they try to.
Yeah.
So can you say, because you didn't really say this, but you have a military background.
Yes, I went into the military in September 1959, and I'm still in.
I carry an ID card of 52 and a half years.
I spent four years active duty with the Naval CBs, and I was at the CB reserves for 26 years.
I was enlisted for 11 years, worked out the Chief Petty Officer.
I got an engineering degree and applied for and got a commission in the Civil Engineering Corps, so I was a commissioned officer for nineteen years.
And I retired in 1989.
In June of 88, I joined the New Mexico State Defense Force, which is a militia.
And New Mexico State Defense Force is the longest continuously operating defense force in the United States, started by Kit Carson about 1854.
So you really bring a military mindset to this story.
I think military and engineering.
And psychology, I don't know nothing about it.
So what is the significance, though, of this Plains of St.
Augustine?
What do you think happened when they picked that craft up?
I don't know where they came from.
I absolutely don't know.
I have no idea.
I mean, it's just not there.
Because like he mentioned today in that thing, once they get back, they just scatter them to the four winds and nobody talks.
They're gone.
But what is so absolutely insignificant of that is that Mr.
Campbell found exactly where it landed and he dug up parts and pieces.
And then in 04, he invited my wife and I, I took my younger brother, and I hired four Navajos, and there's another fellow that's here at this conference.
We all went down there, and we dug up parts and pieces.
And are those the pieces you showed up?
Yes, this is a beautiful opportunity now.
Let's show the guys some crash metal.
This contains seven pieces of metal, and this piece right here is a piece of really thin plastic.
And I personally dug up two balls of this plastic, about the size of a softball.
And whenever I first touched it, it felt like snakeskin.
But it's really thin.
And a few years back, we was holding it up, and there's a glint, a sun glint off the hood.
This thing's got a membrane in it.
And I can't find anybody in the world that wants to tackle it.
But you do have a whole book of investigation on the testing of the metals.
And the book here is on these first six, Wade 1 through 6.
We also found Wade 8, but it hasn't been tested much.
You said you wanted to touch it.
It'll be in your hand.
Humor me here, because this is a little bit of an idea.
This right here, It's about that big and it's folded over like a taco.
That's it.
Okay, I want to just describe to people what I'm experiencing here.
If I had my eyes closed, I would not be able to tell I had anything in my hand.
This is so light, it's almost weightless.
And that one is about a sixteenth of an inch.
Can you just come in closer here so you can see this thing?
You're right in there.
You're right in there.
It is so light.
I cannot feel I've got anything in my hand.
And that's the thick one.
And it's a little bit like a taco chip.
I was.
Now what is it made of?
Yeah, it's made of many, many different elements.
In these six pieces of foil, the scientist has found over 50 elements.
And that one right there, they've been able to go into the isotopic analysis, and they found three isotopes that is where they can actually look at it.
And if you want to take a look at this right here up close, that's the isotopic ratio.
And with this right here is an absolute proof that this was not terrestrial.
Not terrestrial.
Not terrestrial.
Because this right here is terrestrial sample.
This right here is what we gave them.
The isotope for a nickel, nickel number one, no, nickel 62.
Terrestrial is 3.63.
Our sample is 32.28.
It should be within 1%.
Yes.
This right here is what we've been...
This is the holy grail of extraterrestrial.
Are you able to let us have those images that we can put in the video?
Are they yours?
They're mine, and I've got it on DVD. I mean, no...
It's on the internet.
Fabulous.
We can send it to you.
We can fix it all later.
Thank you so much.
I mean, this whole thing's on there.
But is it durable like you can't break it?
Oh, no, no.
It's very breakable.
This is foil.
This is quite fragile.
And one thing I would like to point out is the scientist has found indications that there are single-wall carbon nanotubes on all six of them.
Nanotubes came into our world in 1991.
That's whenever they came out of the hiding.
This right here came in 1947.
I talked to the scientist last Friday night, and he said that he is in the process of doing the prep work to go into the machine that's designed for analyzation of carbon nanotubes.
So one of these days, real soon, he's going to have that yay or nay And I'm going to say it's going to be yay because it's indicated in all of it.
I gotcha.
And that is phenomenal.
I just wanted to put this in your hand because you want to be able to feel it.
I know.
Go ahead.
See.
Go ahead.
Yeah.
It's interesting how it is.
There's almost nothing there.
Yeah.
It's very, it's so slight.
But it also, like when it's on your hand, if you close your eyes for a while, Then you don't know it's there after that.
It sort of tends to become part of you.
And each piece that we have, and some of them are as big as the hand here, and some of them are like this big, but every piece went on that ship as a piece that was not torn up in the crash, except for the big, thick one-sixteenth of an inch, which we think is the outside of the ship.
Yes.
This right here has a coating on it that is really lots of silicone, and the inside has got lots of iron, therefore it never rusts.
And that took a real beating, so that was torn up in the crash.
These pieces here were not torn up in the crash.
And why I can say that with certainty is Right along the outside edge here, they took the outside edge and creased it and basically ironed it.
It's really flat.
And they went all the way around it.
Every piece we have, they took that outside edge and creased it.
Therefore, there was not one of these things torn up in the craft, crash, except that piece.
And that's outside and it took a beating.
The metal that was recovered from the brazil ranch, which the sheep didn't want to crush.
That's correct.
There's thousands of pieces.
Many people have described those as the...
Memory metal.
The metal has a memory, the memory metal.
You can scrunch it up and then it just...
And Gerald Anderson has told me personally that that type of metal was there.
And do you have any of it?
I do not.
Okay.
So we haven't found it or it may not be there.
Yes.
So this isn't the memory metal.
That is definitely correct.
This is something different.
I understand.
But this may be off the part of the ship that don't use memory metal.
Sure.
Don't know.
But no, we're going to look, or if we ever go back again, we're going to look.
Thank you, Wayne.
It almost has heat.
The scientist says that this, the smart, he says that this metal is alive.
It seems like it.
And what was so neat is, in one of the interviews I gave at the UFOC last year, The lady that was doing the filming was a psychic and had pendulum.
So we laid out these six pieces and some of them went clockwise, the pendulum, some of them were counter-clockwise and one of them went back and forth.
My roommate also used a pendulum.
So the next morning I requested that he do that in front of a crowd.
I just went down the hall and got them and laid them clockwise, counter-clockwise and back and forth.
What does that mean?
I have no idea, except that it affects the pendulum clockwise, counterclockwise, clockwise the back and forth.
Something to do with magnetic field?
Yeah, it has to be the magnetics of some sort.
But it fluctuates.
Yeah, it definitely fluctuates.
And every piece, and this report proves it, is different, made different.
It has different elements in it.
And also in...
It seems to have some...
It picks up heat.
It actually...
And...
It's through some kind of osmosis.
And on that same subject, whenever I was cutting this number six for the very first time, it's about eight inches long and I could hold it well.
So I was cutting over here with a Dremel tool.
I didn't even know my hand was getting hot until it burned me.
That thing burned my hands from way over there.
And every time I cut off a piece, now I have a pot holder.
Was it easy to cut?
No, heavens no.
In a little piece, what's that, three quarters of an inch, I'd use up to four high, the really good Dremel.
Okay.
It's tough.
Are these basically each samples from larger pieces?
Is that what they are?
Definitely.
I understand.
This right here is about...
There's a really good batch of pictures on my internet linked to Mr.
Ken Lima.
And Ken is a disabled vet with some time on his hands.
He's done a beautiful job.
And you can link to Ken's site by mine.
And he shows this stuff really well.
How big it is.
I've got a tape measure both north and, you know, both directions, and you can get to see how big it is on both sides.
You know, what about the story that you said Stanton Friedman got your, you had results from one thing where it was cut and they only looked at the side or something, and then he wouldn't acknowledge it after that?
That's true, and I specifically put number eight here in front of an audience in the UFO Museum in Roswell on the 3rd of July, 2004.
We just got this stuff five or six weeks sooner, and I put a piece of it about two by three inches in my pocket, and I had it in my pocket just to show friends around.
And two guys on their own stage with a professional archaeologist talking about the Roswell dig.
And in their talk, they said the Plains of San Augustine craft did not happen.
Folks, there I was with a piece in my pocket.
And I had several pieces at home.
So whenever Stanton was called up for the round table, So Stanton was coming up to the podium.
I asked for the mic, and I got it, and turned to Stanton and said, Stanton, I have a piece of metal here from the plains of San Augustine crash.
And he took it and he had it sent off through the museum to Seals Laboratory in California.
And a few months later came back, Stanton, all this is is aluminum foil with silicon from the sand.
And folks, that has given me hell.
Because he's a well-known person, who am I? I've got the real stuff, and he won't retract the statement.
Well, how did you have it tested after that?
I have, but not at Seals.
I would have thought that Stanton would know how Seals did, but it turns out in their literature from Seals Laboratories, they say that they only test aluminum foil from the side, and it has silicone in it.
Well, I'll guarantee you from the sand.
If I was a testing laboratory, I would have washed the damn sand off.
And that really irked me.
Because there's a lot of silicon in there.
But they said it from the sand.
But also, by having that in their advertisement from Seals, we wrote Stanton a letter saying, Stanton, they only look at, Seals Laboratory only looks at metal or aluminum foil from the side.
Please have it retested and do it right.
Well, he didn't answer.
I physically saw Stanton in Aztec a year or so after that, two or three years ago now, And I handed him that same copy of that same letter.
He didn't say nothing.
He's not said anything since.
And his statement on his website, or wherever it is, all it is is aluminum foil with silicon from the sand.
That is really bugsy.
But have you had it retested?
Oh, that's what this right here is.
And that's what that whole book is?
Yes.
This is a major, major...
Evidence that it is actually...
Non-terrestrial.
That is correct.
Without a doubt.
And this right here, this isotopic analysis right here is from a sample of this piece right here, number one.
Has Stanton seen your book?
He should have.
He knows that if things had a lot of iron in it, we've received this or got it out of the ground.
In the spring of 04.
And I got hold of Ryan Wood, because they have the crash retrieval, and requested to be a guest speaker in 04.
And I got that spot.
So I stood there on stage for 30 minutes and held up six pieces of foil, and Stanton was in the second row.
And I had big pictures there of the, like at six years, a blizzard of iron.
He didn't say nothing.
But what was so neat about that whole thing, I'll never forget.
Once I said I was done, basically the whole audience lifted up and came forward.
Of course they did.
I thought maybe they were going to hang me or something.
But what they wanted to do is feel that metal.
No one had ever felt it.
Except Stanton.
He never came up.
This is the periodic chart, and every one of these dots here is an element that is inside of six pieces of metal.
There's over 50 elements in those six pieces.
So it's not just a composite, it's a complex composite.
Yes.
It's a very, very complex alloy.
Extremely complex.
I want to show you something for a reaction here.
Sure.
The reaction is on the left here.
This is a photograph that came my way which was ostensibly the intact craft That was recovered.
And you will see that it is exactly the same backdrop as the Kauffman site.
This is the Kauffman site.
And I would say that...
I'd say it is the Kauffman, because look at the size of these people.
If you turn them right here, one, two, three, four, that's 25 feet.
Yes, it is.
And if you turned it like that, one, two, three, about big enough for the hot site.
That's the Kauffman site.
Yes, exactly.
And you can see the backdrop of the cliff is exactly the same.
You got it.
I will...
Yeah, I've never seen that picture before.
Obviously, it's on your site, so...
Yes, we will be able to give this a little bit of prominence here.
Oh, that's wonderful.
It has an interesting, an interesting provenance.
It was sent anonymously to a researcher in Malta a number of years ago, and so on and so forth.
I would wager, and that would be the alternative site southwest of Roswell.
That's correct.
Not north, which is Walter Haught, Colonel Corso's son.
Yes, yes.
And what I keep saying, Corso, in his book, The Day After Roswell, Corso had parts and pieces of a Roswell craft in the Pentagon north of Roswell.
And that was a little dude that was intact.
So they would have the parts and pieces.
Yes, and I showed that photograph to Don Schmidt, and Don Schmidt said, oh, that's the Kauffman site, therefore it's not to be taken seriously.
And I think that is a disgusting remark.
For one thing, he's got the site wrong, because Don Schmidt says it was north, and being he disqualifies Kauffman, he doesn't even consider one south.
But once he puts South, which is Chuck Sikowski and his sister Debbie, they're looking at that as we speak.
That makes totally sense.
That puts Kaufman up as a believable person with a sight South, not North.
And then Jim Ragsdale, they disqualified him because he said it was North and it's West.
And they said that Gerald Anderson is disqualified Because he lied.
Everybody don't tell the truth all the time, but Gerald Anderson is a wonderful man, a good friend, and he was there because Gerald Anderson and my wife and I went and stood on the exact spot Of where that craft hit.
We went down on this area that could be any part of a thousand square miles.
And he was standing within twenty feet of where we had dug up pieces.
He could have been anywhere in a thousand square miles and told me that was it.
But he was within 20 feet of where we had dug up pieces.
And the way he tells the story of how he, when he was a little kid, he saw this live extraterrestrial just going crazy when the military came in.
This was something real he was describing.
I mean you don't make stuff like that.
It was a real story.
I could feel it.
I'd love to meet the man.
I will make sure that he gets in contact with you.
Thank you.
Because I had a very long conversation with you just last week.
Very good.
And he had a really a bad fall right before Christmas.
He was doing something on his roof, got off Off the roof onto a ladder, the damn ladder flung out, and he landed really hard.
But he's getting better now, so we never know, folks, of when we're going to leave this earth.
That's true.
And he wants to get his story out, so the Camelot may be exactly what Mr.
Anderson needs.
I'd like to do that.
The metal is...
It's just an extraordinary experience, just holding that in your hand.
And I've held this little shoe in my hand.
In fact, it's right there.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
There's the shoe, and I've held it in my hand.
You said that Art Campbell has this?
Yeah, I've held it.
Okay, and how big is it?
It's four and seven eighths inches.
And relative to a kid...
Let's see if I should...
Oh, it's the other way.
One page past.
Oh, there it is.
This right here is the outside of a kid.
This is the sole, so the foot had to be inside of this thing.
It's not a kid.
It's not, yeah.
This is an adult because the kid either wears it out of a male or a toe.
And this thing's worn out in the center where we wear ours now.
But that isn't the most important thing.
That's just a foot.
Let's see if I can find it easily.
And I've helped this little dude, and I am too, if I can find it.
Oh!
Here's a picture of...
Oh, here's that wax I spoke up.
See, here's some pieces of wax.
Let me just hold it still so the camera can...
And this right here is sort of like we put our counters together with a T. See that T? That's how we put our counters together.
And this, I picked up a piece like this here myself.
What is this book here that we're holding?
Is this a self-published book?
It is by Mr.
Campbell.
And he, as we speak, is getting it ready to republish again with this analysis in it.
That was my next question.
So this detailed document here will be available from Art Campbell himself?
No.
And you can get to it through my website, chuckwadeufo.com.
We'll make sure that that's available.
And then...
Right here is a piece of plastic, and it is plastic.
They got really hot and just shrunk.
But they've taken an MRI of it and unshrunk it.
It's right here.
It's a triangle.
It's a five-chambered heart.
And in that heart, they have found gold, copper, and silver wire.
Right here's a wire with a fitting on it.
And that wire is little bitty.
Like this is the red-headed secretary they put in the electron microscope.
This wire is just down here teeny tiny.
Like maybe a tenth or twentieth of the diameter of the wire.
And they put a fitting on that dude.
And not only that, they also have some of it's round and some of it's flat, like barbed wire.
They went to a lot of work on that.
And a couple of years ago, Mr.
Campbell showed me a picture that he had gotten, that had been declassified of an autopsied body here.
Right here was a triangle to fit a triangular heart.
Our heart is a heart-shaped.
Well, there's a triangular shape.
And we've got it.
Or he does.
I've seen it.
I've held it in my hands.
That's important.
And there's not a heart surgeon on the world that wants to work with that thing that we've found.
They don't want to know.
It sounds as if what art has here is a bunch of very inconvenient information.
Oh, yeah.
Boy, they don't want it at all.
In fact, well, I started in 04 to try to get this stuff analyzed, and I got it in October of last year.
Nobody wants to touch it, even our high-class investigators don't want to touch it correctly.
And I'm no telling how many people have been screwed by Seals Laboratory, because I have no idea how many people have sent their foils, and there's a lot of foils for this stuff, to Seals Laboratory.
All it is is aluminum foil with silicon from the sand.
I've got more than one, and I'm not going to mention the second one.
Gotcha.
Okay.
So have you been threatened at all?
Not at all.
Not one time.
I was apprehensive for the first several months until I went to the crash retrieval in Las Vegas with Ryan Wood, thank goodness for the woods.
I was apprehensive.
But once I put this stuff into the world, I think my usefulness that has gone, went away.
I've not been threatened at all.
I was with Linda Moulton Howe.
I see.
And it was an excellent interview.
I really appreciate what she did.
So Linda supports your story?
Yes, to an extent.
Good, okay.
To an extent.
Because she also works with an awful lot of people that are above my pay grade, so to speak.
I understand.
Off camera, I'll tell you more.
Okay.
That's lovely.
Thank you so much.
I think we need to go, and I appreciate all this information, and I think it's a lot of really detailed information.
Thank you.
And I know Phil has a better background in this sort of Sort of stuff than I do, but it's great that we were all able to come here and meet here by chance or by...
Totally by chance.
That somebody's got me by both hands and we met.
Absolutely.
It's a very interesting process.
And personally, I want to thank you because I know that this is a very tiny part of an enormously much bigger picture about man's place in the cosmos and what are we doing here in the history of the human race and everything else.
But this little kind of puzzle Has been niggling away at me like a stone in my shoe for quite a long time.
It's like, what did happen back there?
All these different crash sites and these different witnesses, and are they all lying and they can't be?
And how does it fit?
And what you did for me was you helped to put it all into place.
Now I can understand it.
Thank you.
And that's very, very, very valuable.
And if I could just plug my...
Presentation I'm going to be given in Aztec, New Mexico on, I believe, the 23rd and 24th of March.
I'm going to be a presenter of one of four, and I can hardly wait.
Good for you.
And I really appreciate this, because I don't get to practice this very often.
Thank you, Chuck.
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