There is a Jaguar outside my door Stretched out in hurry
Waiting for more Strange shade of stone Deep cat eye green No way to escape No one hears my scream Thank you.
Hello, hello.
This is Carrie Cassidy, Project Camelot Whistleblower Radio, and we are on the air on this Wednesday night, April 13th, and glad to be here.
We have a very interesting guest this evening, should be a lot of fun.
His name is Frank Ahern, and he's written a book called How to Disappear, and information could be very useful.
To not only to us in the future, but to to our listeners and you never know when it could come in handy.
So it's totally going to help you in many ways, not only to cover your traces, but to avoid, you know, sort of unnecessary surveillance, perhaps in certain areas.
So that will be a lot of fun.
On top of it, we've got a lot of craziness in regard to recent developments in which I released some original Charles material that was given to Bill and Bill basically had sat on for the last year Practically in a year, nine months, whatever.
Um, and I, uh, because Bill, I had a dream that Bill was being threatened, um, and targeted, uh, and in a very serious way, I decided that, that basically this information had to get out there so that they had no reason to be targeting Bill to keep a secret that in essence, uh, Bill wouldn't be blamed.
And, and if they, they want to try and kill me over it, I suppose that that's what they They can already do.
I'm sure they've got plenty of other reasons to want to kill us besides the stupid material, which I don't think is correct.
Let me say that.
So, so I think there's a great deal of disinfo.
In fact, I think that it was part of a sting that was orchestrated by Charles and group originally of which Bill was part of.
And perhaps Charles was, was part of the sting himself.
Maybe he was deceived on certain levels.
That's always possible.
So, um, that just makes life a little more interesting at this moment, uh, for some people, I think.
And it's, uh, the material is located, you can find the links to it on my blog, which is on my website, projectcamelotproductions.com.
And you go to Carrie's blog or projectcamelotportal.com.
And again, Carrie's blog.
There's also a chat room associated with this radio show, which we have set up On our site and you can go to the chat room if you click on either the home pages of the portal or the ProjectCamelotProductions.com page and scroll down to where you see the radio icon and click on the chat room.
And that's also on the Whistleblower Radio page.
So on top of that, we're going to have a conference for Earth Changes on next Friday, the 22nd of April, if all things go as planned.
We've got some very interesting speakers that will be on that conference, and we're trying to recruit a few more.
This will be a video conference with people such as Brooks Agnew, Jay Widener, Dr. Bill Deagle,
Myself, and also Keith Hunter, who was on my radio show a couple weeks back, who I encourage you to listen to the archives in the radio, to hear his theories about putting some very, very interesting information together and connecting some dots with regard to ley lines and the building of bases, hidden bases, and nuclear reactors, etc.
Such as the one in the Negev Desert.
That's Keith Hunter, who's written a very interesting book in that regard.
So we'll be right back after the commercial with Frank Ahern, How to Disappear.
Thank you.
Thank you.
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Now I've been happy lately, thinking about the good things to come.
And I believe it could be something good has begun.
Oh, I've been smiling lately, dreaming about the world as one.
And I believe it could be someday it's going to come.
And I won't be here to talk.
There I could be strange or beautiful.
Okay, this is Carrie Cassidy, Project Camelot, Whistleblower Radio, and we are talking to Frank Ahern.
Frank, are you there?
I am here.
Thanks for having me.
Oh, absolutely.
You've got a very interesting book here, and I highly recommend it, I have to say.
Thank you.
I'm going to give you a brief introduction here and then I think you should augment it.
Basically it says that you were a skip tracer, a person who tracks down people and uncovers private information for a living.
And you target people like jailbirds, deadbeats, subpoena witnesses, and anyone who's trying to hide, and then ultimately you kind of switched over and started showing people how to properly hide, it looks like.
And in 1997 you were the one who tracked down Monica Lewinsky during their affair with Bill Clinton, and then also It appears that you were involved in finding someone who Russell Crowe threw a telephone at, a hotel clerk, apparently, who was in hiding.
And that you have a partner who is also extremely talented at what you guys do, and her name is Eileen Horan, and she's co-written the book, I believe.
Is that correct?
Correct, yes.
Okay, so why don't you sort of take over for me from here and explain a little bit more about your background.
Well, basically I spent most of my life finding people, be it for investigators, law firms, tabloids.
So, you know, I spent the whole life doing that and really good at it.
Then, about nine years ago, I met a guy in a bookstore who was buying books about offshore banking, expatriated, you know, other privacy books.
And then he paid for it with his credit card, which I thought was kind of dumb.
And I just went to my head of how I could track him down by pretexting his credit card company.
You know, to the Borders bookstore, to the airlines, and I struck up conversation with him, and turns out he was a corporate whistleblower, he had some money offshore, and then eventually called me a few days later and said, can you help me disappear?
And that was really the genesis of this whole disappearing thing, and it's just ballooned after that.
So, are you busier than ever at the moment?
Yeah, you know, it's an interesting change in the business because it went from me dealing more with people's problems.
You know, if someone came to me, it was either violence or money situation.
They were in, you know, violence from a stalker and abusive acts.
Two, you know, I've come into some money, want to leave the world behind, and now it's become more information-based.
You know, how do I disappear my information?
How do I reduce the information known about me?
So, it's definitely been growing, but more so on the digital end.
Yeah, I can imagine.
So, as far as this situation, let me ask you this.
Have you ever worked for agencies, in other words, alphabet agencies, When I was doing the skip tracing, I did a lot of favors through third parties.
A lot of my private investigator clients would do favors to law enforcement.
At one point, I was doing work for the New York Police Department, just doing favors after September 11th.
They wanted to start paying me, but they wanted me to become a confidential informant in order to pay me.
I just didn't like that idea, and I just turned it down and said no, and that was that.
Okay, so since then you've stayed away or have you done favors for them on occasion?
No, not really.
I just deal with private people.
I'm very selective of who I do business with and why they want to use my services.
I screen people really well.
Okay, you screen them from your point of view.
Is it because, I mean I'm curious, is it because you ultimately could be targeted for being involved with people that are sort of on the darker side?
Is that part of your motivation?
You know, I just don't want to, like, deal with anybody who broke the law, because, you know, once I do that, it's just, you know, then I'm aiding and abetting.
So, you know, you have to have, like, a legitimate reason, and, you know, they have to pass the 3C test, which is, like, cop, criminal, or crazy.
If you're one of those, I'm not going to do business with you.
You're not going to do business with a cop, criminal, or crazy?
Exactly, yes.
Okay, so that rules out the agencies?
Is that what you're trying to say?
Yeah, you know, I like to be able to control who I do business with.
That's really important to me.
I don't like organizations that have like letters, you know, like three letters in them.
Three letters in their name?
No.
I try to avoid them.
No, just because it's very interesting.
Are you coming from a position of sort of the higher ground?
Is it because you have a sort of a moral fiber?
Are you trying to tell me that?
Or is this because of necessity?
I think it's out of choice.
You know, I don't work with the criminals because You know, it's just not what I want to do.
And, you know, I make enough money and do a good enough job by not taking on those people.
And, you know, as far as, like, the law enforcement end, I mean, if they came to me and I could be, like, a superhero and crack something, you know, I'd consider it.
But, in reality, I just like dealing with, like, the average person who's got, like, some sort of need.
And, you know, I find that pretty exciting, trying to solve that need, be it information or disappearing them.
So that's pretty much where I kind of stand.
And I'm pretty much... I just...
I don't need headaches at this point in my life, you know, I've had plenty of headaches.
So, when you say the average person, I mean, having to disappear, well, perhaps it's becoming more average as we move into this heavy-duty surveillance society, but generally speaking, a person who's not average wants to disappear, and they must have a motivation.
And I'm just wondering, is it your philosophy to, in a sense, because if I turned it around, would you, would it be like you are protecting those people, certain people that you feel have a good reason to disappear?
Yeah, I mean, absolutely.
I mean, there has to be a legitimate reason.
You know, I get people contacting me all the time for like crazy reasons.
But, you know, somebody comes across my desk and it's like, you know, I'm being stalked by this person or, you know, I work with some clients who have been in, like, very bad business situations and they're concerned about their life because their business went sour.
So, um, that's kind of the perspective.
You know, someone who needs, like, genuine help as opposed to, um, has nefarious actions.
That's kind of like the client I like.
You know, somebody who just needs that good help.
Okay, and so in terms of, it sounds like you, you know, from the parts of the book that I read, it sounded like you spent a lot of time on the phone.
And I'm just wondering, do you farm out the sort of more technical side of your business?
Yeah, I'm not really a technical person.
I deal with more, you know, all the information aspect.
But, you know, really, people disappearing is the majority of information because you don't really find people with technology.
You find them because of information, you know, like an old contact number from a utility company, phone records to bank records to airline records.
You know, that's how a skip tracer would go about locating someone.
It's pretty much illegal these days.
You know, it used to be a big gray area, but now it's totally illegal.
So, and I always assume that whoever's looking for my client will break the law.
And, you know, I'm cautious in the technical aspect before I meet them.
You know, does their phone have GPS on it?
Do they have a tracking device in their car?
So, you know, those are some issues I gotta take care of beforehand.
Well, let's actually drill down on there because I'd like you to outline your, you know, sort of, I guess, you know, as many as we can in the radio, on the radio here.
But, you know, like 1 through 10, what a person has to do to disappear?
Well, the first thing is you gotta say, where can I go and how I can make a living there?
And, you know, when we resolve that, It's great, because you know, you can't be Joe the bus driver in Pasadena and disappear and be Joe the bus driver in Cincinnati because you'll be found for your license.
So we have to resolve that issue that you either do something or have a business of some sorts where you're not going to be tracked, okay?
And once we resolve that, we create what we call misinformation, where we basically, I hunt you down, I hunt your information down, You know, I locate the contact number on your account, I say, you know, Skip Tracer would find you through this credit card or, you know, I basically act as if I'm looking to find you.
And what we do is we either delete what we can or we deviate it.
An example, a woman who's a victim of a stalker, you know, she shuts off her utilities, you know, I might have her have a contact number, And, you know, it could be like a law enforcement agency.
Or it could be an airline.
And we start creating disinformation as well.
Where we, you know, set up a bank account.
We know that the Skip Tracer or private investigator looking for them will get that information and I'll send that ATM card to somebody I know in Chicago.
And they'll start using it there.
And it'll appear that, wow, she must be in Chicago.
She's buying groceries every two days or three days.
So, those are the two main ideas.
Then, you know, the third idea is Reformation, getting you from point A to point B, making sure nobody can find you, and teaching you how to communicate with family and friends without being traced.
And the ultimate goal is just to turn you into a virtual entity where there's no connections between you or anything physical.
And those are, like, really the three keys to Misinformation, Disinformation, and Reformation.
So, but how does one, I mean, this society is so online and so digitized that, how do you do that?
You can't rent a car, for example, without a credit card.
Sure you can.
There are some car rental places take prepaid credit cards, you know, prepaid phones.
So, I mean, and you have to also remember, you know, you could Have an offshore credit card as well from an offshore bank that doesn't, you don't have to be rich to have that kind of account.
It just, and it lists no transactions whatsoever.
So if a predator kind of got access to that credit card, it's going to be blank and not have any transaction information.
You know, technology can be intrusive, but we can also use it to our advantage by, you know, creating disinformation.
You can have a virtual phone number that rings at any number you want.
You know, so there are great tools, you know, with technology can be your friend.
Okay.
Um, so, so do you, do you create a, like a false passport, a false ID?
No, none of that.
I mean, it's totally illegal and you know, new identities have become like somewhat of a myth.
I mean, you don't know if the, if you're buying it from someone, you know, or you're trying to create one.
You don't know if the numbers are legitimate.
You don't know if the person you bought it from, did they sell, you know, five of these passports with the same name?
You know, where do you test it out?
You know, you test it out and get pulled over by a cop?
And they're running it through, like, DMV?
So, we have you exist as a corporation, where everything goes into a corporation, and unless you know that corporation name, you're not going to find my client, because the corporation acts as, like, a, uh, I was told that, for example, cars, new cars, are all built with GPS.
Correct.
that are these or anything false because you're just bringing out one more predator and that's law enforcement.
And that's just problems.
So I was told that, for example, cars, new cars, are all built with GPS.
Correct.
So does that mean that you would advise your client not to have a new car?
I would say if they're going to buy the car, okay, to have the car registered under a corporation, Because the predator would need to know the name of the corporation and what state it's incorporated.
I mean, listen, you can incorporate in New Jersey as a foreign corporation, but, you know, exist in Wyoming.
I mean, the same thing with a car.
It can be registered to a corporation.
It doesn't have to be registered to an individual.
So there, you know, there are ways around it.
Unfortunately, you know, if you're leasing it, you know, or buying a brand new car, you know, typically they want a guarantee on the loan.
And I suggest to some of my clients is not go for the new car, take an older car you can pay cash for, and then just put that in the corporation and the insurance in the corporation.
Oh, I see.
Okay, so the idea being, I assume that a corporation can't be traced?
No, they can be traced to, you know, but you have to understand, I mean, first you have to find the corporation.
I mean, if you picked up Move Tomorrow to Ohio and opened up, you know, LBJ Corporation, you know, your predator or whoever's looking for you has to know you're incorporated in Ohio and then know the company name.
Because there are shelf corporations where you're just buying a straight-up corporation that's not used for profit.
So you don't necessarily have to file returns on it because it's not producing any income.
You just got to file your papers with the state through an existing corporation.
And so that's how you use the corporation.
Okay.
All right.
Well, can you talk about why does it take two people to do this?
And actually, how many people does it take to disappear one person?
Well, I pretty much can do that on my own.
There are times in the past I worked with Eileen, who was my partner.
You know, she's done her way, I've done my way.
But I basically do it myself at this point.
And, you know, since I know how to locate people, that's why I'm good at the disappearing part.
Because I need to know how somebody would go about hunting you down, and then deal with those issues.
So, it's kind of like a one-man operation.
Okay.
Do you get hassled by law enforcement?
No.
Only when I was doing the skip tracing and locating people.
That was kind of a big gray area.
But no, I've been tested where I know that people have contacted me wanting information, and I knew that it was probably law enforcement checking, seeing what I really am doing.
And the IRS had a bit of a problem with it at one point, but I straightened that aspect out.
Okay, so what about things like email and all of that?
In other words, if you have a person that you've advised to, or you're advising to disappear, do they start getting out of an online presence, so to speak?
You know, definitely it's, you know, withdrawing from social media, but we can use the social media as disinformation, where, for example, we could set you up and, you know, your Facebook, you start talking about that you're moving to, like, Kansas, and you start posting pictures about Kansas and photoshopping them.
Right.
You know, and not only that, you're talking about your new boyfriend who, you know, is a karate expert, and you know, all of, you know, most of your friends that we put on your Facebook account are all bogus people, and they're all fake people.
So whatever's looking for you is finding this kind of community of information about you.
And so we, you know, we've learned to use it more as a tool.
Okay, we'll be right back with Frank Ahern and talking more about how to disappear.
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Okay, this is Keri Cassidy, Project Camelot, Whistleblower Radio, and we're talking to Frank Ahern, author of How to Disappear.
Frank, you still with me?
I'm still with you, haven't disappeared.
Awesome.
Okay, now I've got some people throwing some interesting questions at me.
One person is saying, how do you hide a person's name within a corporation?
And let me see if I can get the exact there has to be paperwork that connects your name or social security number to the corporation?
Is that not right?
Well, different states have different rulings, but you do not have to provide a social security number for a corporation.
You don't?
You just, you know, it's different in different states.
But like, for example, in the state of New York, no, you don't.
So I mean, also, you know, when you need the tax ID number is when you need an EIN number, if it's generating income.
But as a corporate shell, it's, you know, if you don't generate income, there's no taxes.
State to state.
All right, then.
What about the idea that?
Hold on one second here.
I'm told by someone who is in a position to know that if they've got your And I'm not quite sure I understand that.
I mean, just because you have a social security date of birth doesn't mean you can find an individual.
Not everybody can be located.
I mean, you have to be attached to something.
You know, you may find information, doesn't mean they're there.
So I'm really not sure what that question is.
Okay, well, I guess, I guess the idea that if you, if you find, for example, if you got a date of birth and a social security number, you've got the beginning of a trail, of a paper trail of some kind, right?
Right.
Yeah, you have information on the person, but there's no guarantees you're going to find them.
Okay, so what do you do with a person's social security number?
How do you deal with that?
You don't deal with it.
I mean, you have to exist with it.
So, you know, like I said, one of the things is, what do you do for a living?
You know, we can figure out, can you work on a 1099 under a corporation, where you file your taxes yearly, as opposed to having uh income taken out you know weekly you know and you know 941 to the irs so i mean you depends on who the individual is and what they do for a living determines how do we deal with it and some individuals can work as a consultant or on a 1099 basis okay um
and but i i mean you know sorry but it still seems like they'd need a fake id Hmm?
No, not at all.
I mean, you move to town, you basically can open up a corporation, you can get a lease in a corporation, an apartment lease, you can open up utilities in a lease, you know, under a corporation, and get cable.
I mean, you need a social security number in order to open up a bank account and to file your taxes.
And if you want to have credit, but I suggest my clients not using credit.
So no, you don't need a fake ID in it.
You know, they don't always work.
And you know, the minute you bank with it, you're breaking God knows how many federal laws at that moment.
Okay, but well, you know, actually, where were you?
Because if they sit, if they if they disappear in the US, and they don't change their name, and ID, then if They either, I mean, if they're going to pay taxes ultimately or... Right, and you can file your taxes and have a mailing address to a mail drop.
You don't have to use your home address.
Right.
You know, you could basically have a mail drop in San Diego but live in San Francisco.
You're not breaking the law.
OK, but at some point, I mean, you know, in other words, there's still you could a person could go in and I don't know, stake out your your P.O.
box or go go talk to the person and try to find out where you live.
Well, yeah, but basically what we do is you don't actually go to that P.O.
box.
You pretty much have, you know, an account set up where they FedEx that to different places, to different mail drops.
You know, we wouldn't just use one mail drop.
And so that's like no problem.
Every three months, they just ship it out to somewhere, and it gets picked up from there.
No one particular place.
But you also got to remember, if somebody's looking for you, like a stalker or a private investigator, I mean, how long are they going to really sit on a mail drop?
I mean, it's expensive.
You got to pay the piper.
Okay, well let me ask you this.
I do see that on your website you have like a list of countries where, I mean, it seems kind of general, but you're saying where it's appropriate to possibly disappear to.
I'm assuming the United States is not one of them.
Well, no, that's not true.
I mean, it really depends on your income because you have to look at it in the same perspective of, you know, if I was going to relocate to a new city, you know, you need to acclimate and You know, if you can go offshore, even better, you know, live by the beach.
But most of my clients can't do that.
They need to go to a place that they can afford.
So there's really no one particular place.
And, you know, I work with people who just move to the other side of the state.
It's a question of just, you know, dealing with their information to make sure there's no connection from point A to point B. And you also need to remember, looking and trying to find somebody can be, you know, very costly.
So, you know, unless your client's got like an unlimited budget to find that particular person, it's not an easy thing to do.
Especially with technology.
Well, but if, okay, so if they relocate, you're basically saying everything goes under a shell corporation's name.
Correct.
Or under your friend's name.
You know, you got a friend who's willing to open up some utilities for you, even better.
And then everything's under their name, and good luck finding it.
If nothing's under your name, you know, you have nothing to connect you to something physical, you're not going to, quote, find that individual.
But if you're still using that name in any way?
Yeah, but you're not using the name for services.
You know, you're still who you are.
Maybe the utilities are under your cousin Fred's name.
You know, the person who's looking for you has to know that in order to search for that.
They're going to search for you, and nothing's going to come up except your closed information from your last address.
So they're not going to find any future information.
Okay, and for the driver's license, what did they do?
My suggestion is, you know, if you're a victim of a stalker, Leave your driver's license where it is, in the same state, same address, and if you get pulled over for speeding or something like that, you show your police file to the cop and say, this guy's been stalking me, that's why my license is from another state.
And that's what I suggest you do.
Okay, but, I mean, you know, not everybody's being stalked, and that's not everybody's reason for disappearing, so how do you, you know?
That's my advice for people who are being stalked.
I mean, you can also, same thing, I mean, it depends on what state you're in.
Some states you can have a P.O.
Box, some states you can't.
So, it really depends on where you're going.
Okay, but you're still, you've still got your name on the license.
Yes, but that doesn't mean that name and address is where you're physically at.
You know what I'm saying?
I mean, just because it's on a database somewhere doesn't mean you're there.
You know, you're looking at it from the perspective that, you know, your name is attached to something and it's always going to be attached to something.
Doesn't mean you're there, though.
That's really the key.
Are you there?
If not, then where are you?
Okay, what about family members?
Because I'm just wondering, you know, not to make your life difficult here, but let's say you're really good at disappearing me, but all somebody needs is one, you know, one connection that you've sort of left off.
Maybe they know who my sister is, then couldn't they track them legitimately?
Well, if your sisters are dumb enough to give up information about you being stalked into somebody who calls and claims you're Federal Express.
But the thing is, you never communicate with regular cell phones or landlines.
You know, we do it all pre-paid phones.
You walk into a CVS or a Rite Aid, and in five minutes you've got a working prepaid phone nobody knows about.
And you use that for a couple of weeks, then you dump it.
And then what you do is you place an ad on Craigslist selling a 1957 pink Chevy with gold rims, and you have a phone number there.
Last two digits are inverted.
So when your mother or your two sisters want to get your new prepaid number, they just look for an ad like that on Craigslist, and then they have your new number.
So I mean, you know, They're doing it from prepaid phones as well and they've dumped their prepaid phones and unless you saw your sister walking into the CVS buying it and somehow if you can figure out how to Get that information of what phone you bought or your sister bought.
It's just too difficult to do.
I mean, nothing's impossible, but the average person or the greatest investigator in the world is not going to be able to figure that out.
And that's how we do it.
I have one client who's got like 15 SIM cards.
You just never know which one he's using one particular day.
What about the idea that somebody's saying that a P.O.
box, even those people do demand a street address, so they're going to know?
Well, no.
If you go to the United States Postal Service, they're going to want it.
But, you know, if you're in a city, I mean, you can walk into almost anyone.
Yeah, they want to see ID, and they want to know what your physical address is, but when you say, I just moved to town, I don't have a physical address, that's why I need a mail drop, they'll go, okay.
And that's how you solve that issue.
Every no leads to a yes.
It's kind of like dating.
Oh, really?
Okay, I'll keep that in mind.
Okay, well, for example, this person or people that you're disappearing, they can't be well known people, is that right?
Right, we deal with privacy, you know, with famous people in a different matter.
But no, you can't, you know, you have your face, that's your problem.
You're recognizable.
So that's the big issue.
Okay, but, but you don't think that, that a name, as long as the name isn't recognizable, you mean, then just going through life, keeping the same?
Let's see.
Because I'm trying to think about where my where my information is, is on.
And for example, let's say I have car registration, I have to renew it every year, right?
Correct.
And you're saying that's under a corporation and that's located at a different address than where you drive from but they want to know where you're driving from in order to give you like car insurance.
Well some people don't always tell the truth and you as a person who may have a stalker have to decide that for yourself.
What's more important telling the truth to an insurance company or not getting hacked up by a crazy ex-boyfriend?
You know, those are decisions my client has to make on their own.
I know if I was in that situation, you know, I wouldn't necessarily tell the truth about where I'm at.
I mean, you know, I'm not trying to defraud the insurance company, but, you know, maybe I'm just a little late in my notice that I've moved, and that's the way I would personally do it.
Okay.
Let's see.
Somebody's asking me, like, a photo ID.
You need a photo ID, right?
Yeah, no big thing about that.
You gotta remember, you know, just because information is there doesn't mean the stalker or the private investigator who's looking for you necessarily can get access to it.
You know, and you have your photo ID that says you live on, you know, 10 Main Street.
It doesn't mean you live on 10 Main Street.
You're supposed to, because that's what your photo ID says.
But, you know, you'd rather remain alive than, you know, giving your real address or your new address to DMV.
You know, sometimes you have to make some decisions.
You know, I think if, you know, you were driving and you explained it to a cop and showed him the photos of you being, you know, with black eyes and the police reports, I don't think they'd have an issue with it.
I think it's a human thing.
Well, okay, but that's assuming that it's just some independent crazy.
See, um, and, and, and as we started the conversation out by saying, uh, actually it's much more likely that people are going to want to disappear from the government.
You know, in my book, I could have wrote five other chapters about how getting new identities, how to smuggle money offshore, how to do all these illegal things, but I didn't do that because my point is, I wrote it for the person who's not looking to run from the government.
Okay, well, all right, well, we'll revisit that notion on the other side of this commercial.
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One bird in a golden cage On a winter's day In the rain White birds in a golden cage This is Carrie Cassidy, Project Camelot, Whistleblower Radio - Oh, thanks.
Sorry, someone told me a joke right before I came on the air.
Anyway, Frank Ahern, are you still there?
I am here.
Okay, lovely.
So, I'm very, very interested in your approach and what you're doing here, and I have to say that... Are you familiar at all with Project Camelot?
Yeah, I read about you guys.
You read about us?
Yes.
Okay, did you read our... Have you gone to our website, watched our videos, that sort of thing?
Yeah, I've gone to the website, read all through your website.
Okay, have you watched the videos?
Didn't get a chance to do that, no.
Okay, it's not a test.
There's no problem.
It's not a requirement to be my guest.
It's no problem.
I just was curious.
Well, it's just because I'm going to go down a line of questioning that I don't think you necessarily normally get.
Because we have information about the surveillance techniques that go way beyond sort of picking up a phone.
And I'm sure that by this time you must be hip to satellite surveillance as well as even AI.
And what do you do about that?
Well, the goal is not to be wanted or pursued by someone who has access to that information.
I mean, the reality is you can't combat everything.
Sometimes you just have to keep a lower profile.
And, you know, you have to remember from my business, you know, if you're coming to me, you're coming to me because you have a legitimate reason, not because You know, you smuggled, you know, a couple hundred grand out of the country and the IRS and the Feds are looking for you.
I mean, it's a very different type of business.
But it sounds like you're making a presumption that because I'm trying to get away from the government that I'm the bad guy.
My whole premise here, because I deal with whistleblowers all the time, is actually the government's the bad guy and I'm the good guy but I want to get away from them and I am going to need some very special kinds of uh subterfuge in order to do so and and you know to be honest with you you know you're on my radio show you have a a very interesting book you sound like a really smart guy i'm just wondering how with the times you are
and and if somebody's listening to this they're going to want to know whether or not you can help them and if all you're going to help are the people that sort of um don't really have any real reason to run as far as i can tell you know when i in In my world, when I say real reason, I'm talking, in other words, the government are the bad guys.
You've got to start with that.
Yeah, but so is the guy with the baseball bat.
It's all relative.
Well, it may all be relative, but what do you do for me if I'm a whistleblower from a black project?
You're not going to deal with me?
I don't know.
It depends on how I felt that day.
The purpose of being self-employed is having the ability to pick and choose who I do business with.
It was just something out of my reach, to be honest with you, or if it's something I felt that is going to cause more problems in my life, yeah, I'd be like, I don't know if I want to go there.
I mean, I don't help everybody.
I mean, it's a business of choice, not of necessity.
So and if you're running from the government, Do I want my door kicked in?
The answer is no.
Why would I even consider doing that?
Well, I gotta say that, you know, okay, that's fine, but... I'm a capitalist, I'm not, you know, just because I do this for a living doesn't mean I do it for everybody.
I mean, the reality is, you know, I like waking up in the morning drinking my coffee and, you know, I've had the men in suits show up at my door, you know, and to me, it's not a pleasurable thing, so I'm not gonna do it because somebody's willing to pay me.
You know, I'm smarter than that.
OK, but I see that you started your career out by tracking down Monica Lewinsky.
This was not small potatoes.
But that was for a tabloid, a London tabloid.
I wasn't doing it for any other reason than to make a buck.
That was the reason I did that.
I did a lot of tabloid work.
In other words, you started out doing that kind of work, but are you still on that same track?
Meaning, locating people?
Meaning, you did it for the buck.
Yeah, I mean, that's what I wake up to do.
I mean, I like to work and, I mean, I'm not a, you know, I'm not big on, you know, this is what I do.
This is how I do it.
It's how I make a living.
I mean, I don't think there's really, I don't have any higher reasons for doing it.
And, you know, I pick and choose who I do business with.
Okay, so you don't have any higher reason for what you do?
Correct.
I got into it accidentally.
I'm really good at it.
And, you know, that's, you know, sometimes I help the person who can't afford my service.
And, you know, make sure that, you know, they sleep tight at night knowing that the ex-husband's not going to pound on their door, the business partner's not going to kick in their door.
You know, so, I mean, it's a very different, you know, a very different world, I guess you could say.
I mean, I'm sure there are people who are running from the government, but there's also a lot of whack jobs who email me with the craziest things in life, and sometimes it's difficult to define which is real and which isn't.
Well sure, there's no doubt about it and that probably has to be something that you're good at determining because obviously if you're getting people to escape or run away and hide, you've got to determine what they're trying to hide from has got any reality to it, right?
Oh, exactly.
And, you know, if you're the guy that invented the Alpha Omega Code that, you know, can shine light to, like, Uranus or something like that, I don't know if I want to get involved with it.
And that's the truth.
And you're the government hunting you down because you have the hidden key to the next realm.
You know, I'm just, you know, I'd rather just work with the person who says, you know, My business partner turned out to be a criminal, and he lied about everything.
He stole money, and I think he's going to kill me.
So, you know, to me, that's more the client I like to do business with.
I'm not big on politics.
I'm probably, you know, not political whatsoever.
Okay, okay, okay.
We are going to be back on the other side of this hour, and we will be taking phone calls from the audience at that time.
Is that okay with you?
Yeah.
Okay, great.
Okay, we'll be right back.
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Okay, this is Carrie Cassidy, Project Camelot Whistleblower Radio.
We are talking to Frank Ahern who wrote a book called How to Disappear.
Frank, are you still there?
I am here.
Wonderful, okay.
So we have a call-in number and we've also got a chat room operating and I encourage people to call in.
The number is 402 237-2525 and you can also find it on the American Freedom Radio website if you are listening online, which I assume most people are doing.
Then we also have a chat room and the link is on projectcamelot.org on the home page.
If you scroll down to the radio icon you can find it there and you can ask a question in the chat and I will try to get to your questions.
One person has asked Quite a little while ago.
Whether or not you could walk us through a couple of your recent clients, you know, or maybe not so recent clients, sort of the saga that you went through in terms of helping them disappear.
Would you be able to do something like that?
Say the last part again, I didn't hear you.
Would you be able to walk us through the process that you helped a couple clients disappear?
Like, in other words, stories, vignettes about... Right, I mean, you know, basically, I mean, right now it's more information-based, but actually dealing with people who need to pick up and go, you know, it's always about the misinformation, what's known about them.
And how do I locate it?
Do they have magazine subscriptions?
Do they have a frequent flyer account?
Is there a cell number?
Who's on there in case of emergency?
You know, so it's heavy duty looking into all the information known about them.
Okay?
That's very important.
And then, again, the second aspect is how do we keep the pursuer busy?
You know, because if you're not keeping the person busy, because locating people is not rocket science.
It's just basically sitting there and coming up with an interesting idea.
Maybe they forgot to You know, disconnected utilities.
Maybe there is a forwarding address here.
Maybe there are old employers there.
And so, then we start taking that information and putting bogus information on it.
We then set up social networking.
And you know, this works really well, especially with the victim stalkers, because one of the problems with stalkers is they don't... they're very persistent.
And a lot of them tend to do their own investigations and become somewhat savvy at it.
And, you know, that's really the two keys.
At the moment, I'm working with this businessman who was sitting in a hotel.
And someone in a hotel knew something about him that they shouldn't have known about him.
Okay?
And he was up in another country, and he felt like he was being, uh, possibly going to be abducted.
And someone in the hotel accessed a real estate website that showed the value of his house.
So what we do with him is we create these fake digital identities, and when he travels to these countries, you know, he has Business cards made up that he's a photographer and he has pamphlets in his briefcase.
So we create this illusion that he's somebody else, not the financier he truly is.
Okay, but you're not going to give him a fake ID.
In other words, you're doing things that are borderline, but not illegal.
So we'll be right back after this commercial here.
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You raise up your head.
And you ask, is this where it is?
Thank you.
Then somebody points to you and says, it's his.
And you say, what's mine?
And somebody else says, well, what is?
And you say, oh my God, am I here all alone?
But something is happening and you don't know what it is.
Do you?
Hi, this is Carrie Cassidy, Project Camelot, Whistleblower Radio.
We're talking to Frank Ahern.
And Frank, we have a caller holding on the line here.
Would you mind if we take the call?
Sure.
Okay.
Hi, caller from area code 602.
You're talking to Keri Cassidy and Frank Ahern.
Hi, Terry.
Thanks for taking my call.
It's always great talking to you.
Frank, I just had a couple of comments, actually.
I mean, wouldn't it be very simple for people to disappear in just this aspect alone, that if they get off the paper trail, meaning that they just strictly use cash, they could simply disappear immediately?
Well, yes and no.
I mean, you still have to have the basic services of, you know, utilities where you're living and answering those questions.
But, you know, cash is always king.
So, yeah, I do suggest that first before using any other kind of instrument.
Yeah, I mean, it would make total sense.
I mean, if you liquidate whatever you have, let's say that you are being stalked, you say, okay, I need to get out of this situation that I'm in because this is intolerable.
You liquidate anything that you can.
And you could do that fairly quickly.
You could disappear in a matter of a couple of days, and no one would actually be able to find you.
Right, absolutely.
The thing is, if the person has something to liquidate and has the cash, that's ideal.
Unfortunately, they're not always that fortunate, and they're dealing with a minimal income, unfortunately.
But yeah, I mean, being able to liquidate and, you know, existing with cash is an amazing thing.
It's the ideal freedom.
And my second question is that, and I haven't heard anybody bring this up yet, is that, you know, self-defense in this country is, you know, it's our Second Amendment right.
I mean, if you have somebody stalking you, you know, you have that right to, you know, take them out.
And that's the bottom line.
If you feel your life is threatened in any way, shape, or form, you can simply take them out and you can avoid everything that you've been talking about and having to go through this situation of, you know, disappearing because somebody's stalking you.
Yeah, well, not everybody's up to, like, committing murder, you know?
Well, that's not murder.
If your life is being threatened, that's not murder.
That's self-defense.
Right, but you know, sometimes you're talking about a 5'2 person, you know, a 6'4 person, you know, also, you know, with stalking situations, a lot of it has to do with, you know, terror, and, you know, mind games, and, you know, they kind of like linger the idea, the ultimate outcome, and you do have a right to defend yourself.
Unfortunately, not everybody can do that, or wants to do that.
Well, I'm not necessarily speaking about, you know, a handgun or a rifle or whatever, but I'm saying, hey, just the simple tools that you have in your house.
I mean, everybody has a knife in their house.
Okay?
But not everybody can use a knife.
Anything could be considered a weapon at that point.
Well, my point is, you have to take an initiative if you want to salvage or save your own life and not throw your life into this disarray.
You can simply save your life by doing that alone.
Well, like in all situations, there's a time for fight and a time for flight.
Most of my clients prefer the flight, and that's just the way, you know, the people I've been dealing with prefer to go.
Okay.
Okay.
Thank you.
Thank you very much for calling and I appreciate the questions.
We should move along here.
Alright, thank you.
Thanks.
Thank you.
Okay, so we do have the caller line open and it's 402-237-2525.
I also was wondering, in your line of work, what kind of success rate do you have?
Are you able to track A kind of a success rate?
Nobody's been floating in a river, so I can say they're pretty good.
You know, I've never had a situation where somebody said, look, I got a problem.
You know, so-and-so showed up at my door, or so-and-so called me.
You know, I've had, you know, I think what happened is there's a lot of paranoia in the beginning, and, but, you know, at the end of the day, you know, if you speak to the tools that I've taught you, you know, you'll be safe.
You know, it's not 100% guaranteed, but nobody's come up floating in the river, so I'm happy about that.
Okay, what about the idea that we're moving into a cashless society?
Isn't that threatening that sort of angle?
Yeah, I think it could be in the future because I think also what we're going to find is that prepaid cell phones won't be available, prepaid calling cards nor will prepaid credit cards and that could be an issue.
Okay, so understanding that this is your line of work and you kind of want to stay alive doing it, do you have plans along those lines or thoughts?
Actually, this is actually a limited run in my life.
I've been dealing with people for like, you know, 20 some odd years and, you know, I got into this whole disappearing thing by accident.
You know, again, you know, with the no cash, you know, there are, some people can use an offshore bank account, you know, in an offshore business, and you don't have to have a tremendous amount of money to do that, and it's very difficult to pierce and get information from offshore banks.
So, I mean, there are answers, and like everything, once the government says no to something, somebody somewhere figures out an alternate, and I think that's what happens, and probably offshore bank accounts will be the answer in the future.
Okay, so when you get an offshore bank account, basically you can call them up?
I mean, is this the sort of thing where a person has to go in person to do this, or do they call them up and give them their name?
You can basically go there, you can do it online.
It's different in different countries.
You just gotta have the money to open up the business and the account, and you're set.
Okay, but the bottom line is still that That they base everything on an offshore account that's owned by a corporation.
Yeah, I mean, if we became a cashless society, I would suggest having a bank account outside the United States that doesn't, you know, list transactions that, and it's very difficult to get information from an offshore bank, because in the same, you know, you also need to be able to locate that bank.
You know, and that bank could be anywhere from like, you know, Belize, Costa Rica, to the island of Guernsey, to, you know, London to Paris, who knows where.
So you have the whole world to pick and choose where you want your bank account.
Okay, now I had a for a brief period of time, I no longer have it.
I had a Credit Suisse account.
And one of the things that they had to do was release a lot of information to the US government.
Well, yeah, that was one of those unfortunate Swiss laws.
But the offshore world is constantly changing, and you just want to stay on top of the ones that don't adhere to what they call MLAC, which is Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty, which they're very private with their information, and they don't share it with other governments.
Okay, and assuming you have a sort of a list of countries that do that, Switzerland not being one of them.
Right, and it's one of those things that are always changing, so you really have to be on top of it and constantly monitor the laws.
Right, absolutely.
Okay, so as far as your recent clients, are there any anecdotes that you can tell us in regard to your recent clients?
Well, the recent clients I've been dealing with have been, like, more information-based.
You know, I was working with one guy who was also, you know, in a different country, and what happened was the hotel where they were doing, like, some backgrounds on on the foreign travelers.
And I'm sure you're familiar with Michael Savage, the radio guy who couldn't get into London because of his outspoken personality and his show.
Well, my client happens to be in a...
He has a blog all about guns.
And somebody in the hotel saw that and mistook it as that he was an arms dealer of sorts and he had some legal situations.
And somebody in the hotel saw that and mistook it as that he was an arms dealer of sorts, and he had some legal situations.
So what I'm doing now with clients is we're creating these legal digital identities that when they travel, they're actually traveling not under their real profession, but they're picking a non-threatening profession or a profession that won't identify them with something but they're picking a non-threatening profession or a profession that won't identify them with something that could be
It's wonderful to be outspoken, but it doesn't mean the country we're going into likes it.
And so my clients had a big problem where they thought he was there selling guns, and he really just had a very simple box.
So now when he travels, he just travels under a different quote, same name, same information, same passport and all that, but he just assumes a different role.
So my suggestion is anybody who's doing online stuff, you know, especially on a show like this where You know, the thoughts, you know, kind of lean to one way that you may want to have several blogs that you, you know, some that aren't so extreme.
Not saying that people's are extreme here, but you know, in that thing where you can, you know, you're going into customs in some country and they bring up your name and they say, wait a second, aren't you going to teach people how to disappear?
I'll be like, no, that's not me.
I'm the guy who, you know, I, I, I, I, make paper arrangements.
Here's my website.
So those are the things people have to start thinking about.
Social networking can be a huge problem.
And that's most of my clients now are finding themselves in awkward positions because of social networking and social media and, you know, information online.
You know, we're a part of this thing whether we like it or not.
Okay.
So it seems that your new sort of tactic is creating disinfo or multiple identities in a sense. - Yes.
Again, digital identity is specific.
It's changed from a business where disappearing was like the core of it, now deception and deceiving has become like more the core.
And it's taken like this weird twist to it where, you know, seven, eight months ago, people, you know, my clients were, God, I need to pick up and go, I need to disappear.
Now the majority of my clients are saying, listen, man, I need to disappear this information.
And I have another client who is extremely wealthy, lives in a Middle-class town.
Nobody in the town had any clue as to how wealthy he was.
His daughter's best friend saw something about him online, posted it on her Facebook, and she tweeted all about it.
Next thing you know, the whole town knows this guy's like a super millionaire.
And so clients like that are coming forward saying, you know, my business life and my home life are starting to connect.
How do I divide them?
So the information is more the threat than the stalker these days.
Okay, but it sounds like the information that you're talking about would fool, let's say, I don't know, a layman, like somebody who... You'd be surprised.
I'd be surprised.
You know, one thing I'm good at is deception.
I spent my life deceiving people on the phone to get information from them and, you know, it's just flipping the coin at this point.
So, you know, these are just not things that are like slapped together or one Facebook account.
We create multiple communities where, you know, I have one community of people that's got like 200 people involved and they're all fake people for a very wealthy client to Basically, it detracts from this real information.
So, no, it's not something that, even if you're a professional, you'd really have a difficult time proving it wasn't real.
Okay, now you've got something on your website that says anti-surveillance.
Right.
What exactly do you do in that regard?
I really don't, you know, that's more just, you know, my site has a lot of information.
I don't necessarily deal in, quote, anti-surveillance, and the reason is, as I said earlier, I'm really not a technical guy, so, you know, if something like that comes about, you know, I'll try to find an expert in that particular area, because I know that's not my strength.
My strength is the information.
Okay.
Now, I see that you've got this Facebook sort of I don't know, you're saying it's experimental and you're encouraging people to join and try to do this, create fake Facebook.
How does Facebook deal with you?
Are they bothered by you at all?
They never contacted me, to be honest with you.
I don't think they really care.
They're too busy making money.
Okay.
You know, it's something that I'm doing for my next book that we're working on.
And so we're just trying a bit of an experiment, see how it goes.
And then when the book comes out, the whole reason for it will kind of be revealed.
Okay, so you're not at this time interested in revealing anything more about that particular book?
The book is basically called How to Deceive, and basically it is the art of war.
It's Machiavelli for the digital age.
And that's what it is.
It's dealing with the digital problems of the future now as opposed to waiting for the future and then facing them.
But it's really a more, you know, I'm sorry, the Disappear book was more for, you know, middle of the road person who just needs to create privacy and disappear, where the Deceived book that we're working in now is very extreme.
And it's pretty hardcore and it discusses new identities and, you know, really living off the grid and going underground.
Okay.
Okay.
So...
So, for a guy who says he doesn't know, I mean, you've actually contradicted yourself slightly here, you understand, because at one moment you're telling me you just deal with information.
Well, when I hear the word information, as far as I'm concerned, we're online, okay, for all intents and purposes, in some form or fashion.
You tell me you're not experienced in that, and now you're telling me you're creating a book that's based really on deceiving people using online identities.
Well, no.
Actually, when I say information, I mean something that identifies something.
And when I say I'm not technical, meaning I'm not technical when it comes to eavesdropping devices or, you know, Computer, you know, devices, but I can take a situation, you know, man against machine, and that's more, you know, where I fit in.
You know, how do we handle something by using deception?
You're talking, you can figure out something on a social engineering type level, but you're telling me you're not hands-on with regard to disappearing information technically like a techie would do?
No, I would call up in pretext and convince the person on the other end of the phone that I'm somebody who works in the company and we need to take this down for a particular reason.
That's what I do.
I don't need somebody to sit there with an algorithm and develop some sort of code.
I can just pick up the phone in five minutes and have it done.
That's what I do.
I'm good at getting information and extracting information and social engineering.
And that's kind of what this book is more about.
Because you really can't fight technology with technology.
You know, you really need some sort of like human ingenious because technology is limiting to a degree.
There's all these companies out there who say they'll hide your information, you know, for $8.95 a month and, you know, all your information online will be gone.
And it's just unrealistic.
OK, so what do you know about, for example, online security?
Do you know anything about that?
It's a pretty broad statement.
I mean, I know when not to put my credit card in.
I mean, OK, well, OK, when we come back from the break, I'd like to know when that is.
But thanks a lot.
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The truth has just gotten hotter.
The truth has just gotten hotter.
The truth has just gotten hotter.
to find it there.
At any rate, I'm looking into the chat room at the moment to see if we've got any good hard-edged questions here for you.
You know, and I have to tell you that at the moment, I'm not sure I'm feeling really safe if I'm your client.
Now, what exactly do I do about facial scanners, body scanners at airports?
Aren't they going to be, I don't care what kind of business card I'm carrying, aren't they going to be able to kind of pretty much match me up?
Uh, yeah, but, you know, my... I mean, to me, getting on a plane, I got no problem with that, personally.
I don't find that all, you know, all that intrusive.
I mean, you're getting on a plane, and, you know, the guy next to you could have a bomb, or he could be, you know, wanted, you know, for potential terrorism or hijacking.
So, to me, that... I got no problem with airport issues.
And, you know, if you're my client, and you're saying, well, you know, I don't want to fly because they're going to know my face, it's like, take your Greyhound.
Don't fly.
You just won't be going to Europe.
- Okay, well, all right, so. - I think you, you know, I'm probably like not the kind of guest you're looking for.
I mean, you know, my book is for people who are not paranoid, nor breaking the law.
It's for someone who finds themselves in an awkward position and needs to protect themselves.
And you see, I don't need to know about the Alpha Gamma Ray machine, because with my client, see, I utilize deception to keep people safe.
And the reality, nobody's got an answer for the facial recognition scanner at an airport because you know something?
That's just the way it is.
And if you're afraid of it because you've done something or you're afraid the government's going to pull you in for whatever reason, don't fly.
You know, just get a car.
Cruise cross-country.
Okay, well, it's still, I mean, it still seems a little contradictory, but I can appreciate that.
You think?
As far as... If a client came to me and said, you know, Frank, I'm really concerned about the facial recognition, my question is, well, what'd you do?
Oh, you're just an average citizen who's concerned about that?
It's intrusive?
Again because you know the trouble is is that you're you're sort of you're what you're involved in is protecting people and it's not always black and white it's not that clear-cut and somebody who's supposedly No, his partner has, you know, taken off with the money or he's after him and wants to kill him.
A lot of times those partners look pretty squeaky clean to the average person and that a cop may be working for the partner and not working for your best interest and that somebody who's at an airport might recognize you, might be able to scan you, might be able to... That's such an extreme hypothetical.
I mean, maybe they know somebody at NASA or on a satellite can beam down and do it.
Isn't it your job to know what hypotheticals I'm going to encounter if I'm your client?
What I'm saying is that you're talking about your clients as if it's all... Then you need Stephen Hawkins, not Frank Hager.
I mean, that's the reality of it.
I mean, you know, I think you just totally misunderstood, misunderstand what I do.
And I think, you know, when you read the book, It teaches you that your information is vulnerable, be it by government or by predator, okay?
But the reality is, the reality is you can only do so much to protect yourself.
And there's always going to be a trail, okay?
But if you're not breaking the law, and the government's not hunting you down, you know, you don't have that much to worry about.
But if you're paranoid, then you've got some things to worry about.
Okay, what if you're worried about facial recognition in an airport?
What if the mob's after you?
And you're not a bad guy.
It's not the government, supposedly, although I consider the mob to be part of the government, but nonetheless.
You think you guys are going to go to an airport, there's going to be this automatic facial recognition?
Actually, let's forget the airport.
Let's just say that the mob guy's after you.
You're asking these ridiculous things.
And I'm like sitting here thinking, what the hell does this have to do with Somebody protecting their privacy.
Well, I thought you were trying to protect their lives in some cases.
It is their lives.
Some people, it's just their privacy.
But, you know, I'm like flabbergasted, to be honest with you.
Well, that's good, actually.
I mean, you know, the fact of the matter is, is that you want to have a stimulating discussion, don't you?
Within reason, because You know, you're kind of like out there on left field with the government thing.
I mean, the truth of the matter is, you know, you're a target for a government.
You got big problems, and I've been there.
Well, no, actually, I said I brought up the mob.
That was my other thing.
The mob is a piece of cake.
They're not going to hunt you down and find you.
Sammy the Bull was in Phoenix, Arizona selling ecstasy.
He killed 20 people and the mob couldn't find him.
He ran a nightclub out there.
That's Hollywood.
You're saying the mob doesn't hunt down and kill people?
I don't think the mob is all that motivated.
I think if you're in the neighborhood or, you know, the father still drives us to New Jersey for you.
But I mean, they're not the ultimate, you know... Who is, may I ask?
Who is?
I would say the private investigator who's looking at you.
They're worried about their business partners and their ex-wives and stalkers.
Is that it?
No.
I mean, everybody has, you know, different people have different People coming after them, but the reality is, you know, what one person thinks is a threat is not always that huge of a threat.
Sometimes, and the truth of the matter is, just because some wise guy in Brooklyn wants to, like, shoot you in the head, okay, I mean, it doesn't mean he's gonna have, like, the ultimate contacts.
He's gonna hire some private investigator or some dirty cop.
Doesn't mean they can find you either.
But you know something?
You ain't gotta worry about walking in through customs with that.
I mean, by the time somebody figures that out, you're long gone.
I mean there is the reality factor.
So you've handled the airport situation and what you're doing is now more of a social networking where you hide people using that kind of a situation.
Is that right?
And deleting some stuff when needed.
Deleting?
And how do you delete stuff?
Pretty much I can pre-text and convince the other company to take their information down for whatever reasons.
In other words, you call them up and you get them to delete stuff?
Exactly.
Okay, um, that's really interesting.
How do you, let's say I'm working for, I don't know, AT&T.
How are you going to get me to delete something?
You should read the part about pre-texting my book, okay?
We have a radio show for a reason.
It's so that you can communicate with the audience.
Let me tell you how people pre-text.
People call up.
Hi, this is Ken John from AT&T Credit Services.
We're down over here.
I need you to bring up an account.
That's how people pre-text.
You know, there's 5,000 people working for AT&T.
It's only a matter of getting the right person on the phone, because they're bored to death, or they hate their job, or you're flirting with them, or you're just making them feel good, and they're more than happy.
I mean, customer service jobs suck in life, because all you're doing is listening to people's problems.
I call, I can take you away from your day, make you feel good, and boom.
You'll eventually do what I'm asking and giving you a reason to do it and that it's all part of the corporate structure.
Okay, just a question.
How long will it take you to get somebody to delete my record, for example, from AT&T?
Well, let me just clarify.
So I'm not going to call AT&T because you can't pre-text phone companies.
It's federal crime.
But hypothetically, it could happen in two calls or it can happen 15 calls later.
It's shipping away at the stone.
Okay, so you'll go through different people, different contacts.
What would be your pretext for deleting a record in any company?
Basically what I just told you, a person would call up and pretext.
And say, hi, this is, you know, Jill Thomas.
I'm calling from Credit Services.
I'm calling from the downstairs legal department.
I'm calling from, you know, the computer division.
Well, what, delete this person's record?
Won't that be questionable?
Why should you care, you know?
Well, you know, people in the corporate structure don't always question things.
And, you know, if they have an issue with it, you hang up and you get the next person in line.
That's how people pre-text.
You don't always get it the first shot.
Okay, so when you pre-text, do you pretend you work for the company?
When people pre-text, yeah, absolutely.
They pretend they work for the company.
And in the past, in my skip-tracing days, sure I did.
That's how people find people is through pre-texting.
You know, once you have the basic information, you've got to get some sort of confirmation.
So, you may have to call the utility company, the cable company, the satellite company, the water company, whoever it may be.
Okay.
Did you ever work, uh, for example, did you ever pretext as that you were a person in law enforcement?
Uh, no, not out and out said that, you know, I may have kind of 20 years ago implied something like that in a conversation.
Okay.
I would never do that today.
That's just totally crazy.
You know, the days of pre-texting were like wild cowboy days.
It was crazy.
There was a whole underground world of information that nobody knew about, that I was a part of.
So those days were kind of a little more extreme.
Okay, then what has changed?
In meaning?
If the days of pre-texting were sort of cowboy days, what's different now?
Well, because I wouldn't pre-text a phone company or a bank because they're federal laws.
Okay, so laws are interfering at this time with that kind of thing.
Is there anything else interfering?
The laws probably have put the big damper on things, absolutely.
So what about laws about this kind of social engineering deception, like at some point the law is going to probably get hip to these fake, creating fake IDs and so on?
Well, no, it's not against the law.
Listen, man, you could have 4,000 Facebook accounts under your name and live in 4,000 cities.
I mean, there's no law against that.
I mean, people lie all the time online.
I mean, you can't lie and say you're a licensed individual.
That's against the law.
But, I mean, if you want to have, like, a basket-weaving website and say you're the king of basket-weaving, so be it.
There's no law against that.
I don't think there'll be a law against that either.
Okay.
So, but your new tactic, it sounds like, is to fight disinfo with disinfo.
Exactly.
And technology can't do that.
Can't do that?
Right.
You need a person to kind of figure it out and kind of create it.
Not technology.
You know, there's no program that you can just pop in online and do.
Okay.
Are you, are you working with techies at all?
Nope.
Nope?
No, I don't work with any technical people.
I'm not a technical guy, I mean, I don't need to.
No, but what I'm saying is you don't have expertise in the technical, because, you know, yes, it takes a person to figure something out, but then ultimately it takes somebody with technical expertise to carry it out online, right?
Not necessarily.
I mean, not everything is done over the phone these days.
Most things are done online.
Yeah, some things are online, some things are on the phone.
Okay, but what I'm saying is, are you dealing with any techies like to handle technical issues?
I don't know.
You know, I'm assuming you're not working with hackers, because that wouldn't be legal, right?
But you can work with people with technical expertise.
Can you not?
I mean, wouldn't that be helpful in your in your line of work?
No, because, you know, my whole The thing in life is like combat things with deception.
I don't care about, you know, some program.
I mean, because the minute you write program to the left, there's some guy writing program to the right that beats up that other program.
So to me, the only way to battle anything online is through deception.
Because you can't always delete it.
So you might as well deceive it somehow.
And that's pretty much having, you know, brain and coming up with some creative information and taking slices of your life and, you know, propagating it in different ways and just, you know, building a whole state world.
Give me an example of propagating sections of your life in different ways.
Online.
Well, you know, basically, you know, somebody who's been arrested had a DUI, you know, 10 years ago and just comes out in the newspaper, but, you know, just has the person's name and the town.
You know, we would set up, you know, people with that name in that town, Facebook, you know, websites, you know, with that name, .net, .com, .co, .uk, and, you know, we would kind of have this safe individual online almost kind of, like, claim that as their DUI, not yours, okay?
And, you know... Okay.
It's just building this other individual who's accepting or Sorry, we've got a commercial.
We'll be right back.
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Okay, this is Carrie Cassidy, Project Camelot, Whistleblower Radio, and we are talking to Frank Ahern, the author of How to Disappear, and has a new book coming out in the very near future of Frank, when is your new book coming out?
Probably not for another couple of months.
We're still working on it.
Okay.
So I'm wondering, do you use like informants?
In other words, do you have, I don't know, people that you rely on to help you?
You know, sometimes I'll have to use private investigators and do surveillance on people where, you know, if somebody like one of the predators or something like that will have to do surveillance on them to make sure, you know, when we're moving the person who's leaving that they're not being followed.
And sometimes I do bring in, like, a technical person to check for, like, wires or, you know, check the computers, you know, for keystrokes and things like that.
But usually that's, like, towards the end of it.
And because one of the things I learned on a case I worked last year was this woman's boyfriend was extremely technical, very savvy.
And we didn't know if furniture had a GPS device and, like, furniture.
So when she moved, we just made sure she was just too paranoid to take anything from the home.
And so sometimes you just have to walk away from it.
So if a situation arises like that, I'll bring somebody in who is knowledgeable.
It's just not my cup of tea.
Okay.
Okay, yeah, that's very interesting.
It sounds like there's also people that possibly follow, in other words, investigate the person for you before you actually go to work for them.
Is that right?
Yeah, I pretty much do my own backgrounds on them because I know how to get the information.
Plus, you know, people who have a problem really discuss the problem at hand.
You know, people who have an agenda kind of say, how do I do this?
How do I do that?
Or more kind of focused on particular things.
And that one common denominator typically involves, you know, how do I get money out of the country without my wife finding it?
And you know, the wife sometimes equates to like government.
And yeah, I'm pretty thorough when it comes to that.
Okay.
Now, what is this thing where you've got, there's a list of people who disappear mysteriously?
The people who commit pseudocide, faking their own death.
You know, I find that fascinating.
People who just have this ability to wake up one day and just vanish.
I just find something intriguing.
It happens all over the world and, you know, a guy in the UK, this guy John Darwin, who was just your average ordinary guy, disappeared for five years and then showed up back in England.
I just find it kind of interesting, the whole, kind of like Jim Morrison thing, is he still alive?
Okay, so have you followed out any of those?
I'm sorry, say that again?
Have you followed any of those out?
I was looking into the Mona Posi case where she was actually an Italian porn star who ran for like politician there and you know they believe she actually faked her death because she was involved in all these scandals but wasn't able to find her and she's I don't know if she's dead or not but she was the one I worked on.
Okay, and did you do that for someone else or just on your own?
I was doing it with a producer.
And also, we're doing the same thing with the people escaped from Alcatraz had a pretty interesting experience with the family members of the two brothers who escaped from Alcatraz.
And we found all this information that alludes that one of the brothers may possibly still be alive in Brazil.
Really?
So, but you were doing this sort of not to publicize it, I take it, but because you, what, they were going to try to make a movie about it?
You know, they wanted to do a story about Alcatraz, and they asked me to come on board, and I'm like, those guys are dead, man.
I think they just drowned in the water.
I was really pessimistic about it.
But then when I started looking into it and learning more information about the family in Florida and I ended up meeting one of the brothers of the two escapees and there's a whole interesting backstory to it where it made me think and you know a couple years back the U.S.
Marshal Service actually asked one of the oldest brothers to take a polygraph test.
The guy's like 75 years old and this is like maybe 10-12 years ago and so there's like a whole lot of Backstory to it that I found fascinating.
What about someone who steals money?
Don't they have a really good reason to, you know, like, I don't know, robs a bank, bank robbers, that kind of person?
I'm sorry, say that again?
People that rob a bank, you know, or steal money in some form or fashion.
Isn't it much more likely that a person like that's going to come to you?
Those are the people who are always emailing me.
But, you know, like I said, you know, cop, criminal are crazy until proven otherwise.
And, you know, but you have to understand, those people are always asking about new identities.
How do I get a new identity?
How do I get a new passport?
You know?
I'm like, what am I, like the Walmart of passports here?
You think I'd really be in business if I just said, hey, you just emailed me, I'll tell you how I get it.
Meet me on, like, Main Street, I'll sell it to you.
I wouldn't last, like, two months in business.
Okay, but now what if one of your clients does want that?
You have access to those people, you know, who does provide that sort of stuff, right?
No, not at all.
You know, no way.
Is it illegal to say you have access to those kind of people?
I'm sorry, say that again?
Is it, is it illegal to say you have access to those kind of people?
No, it's not illegal to know people, not at all.
Okay, so you're just saying you just don't have access to them, not because it's illegal, but because your clients never request you to help them with that?
Well, they think they do.
They're like, I need a new identity, this guy's trying to kill me.
And I'm like, you don't need a new identity, we can do it legally.
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