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May 27, 2010 - Project Camelot

01:35:13

Project Camelot Audio Interview with Michael Tellinger : Temples of African Gods

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	Transcription by CastingWords
	Transcription by CastingWords I'm here with Michael Tellinger and he has been very instrumental in bringing Makomati and the African ruins in South Africa to the public attention.
	He's been working with Johan Heiner in doing so.
	And we are here to talk about that and his book, Slave Species of God, which has gotten worldwide recognition as well as to get an update on where things are going now.
	And we also are here to clear up a controversy that surrounds Michael Tellinger and Credo Mutwa at this time, simply because that's an extremely unfortunate situation, and there is absolutely no reason for it to continue.
	All of that is going to be contained in this interview, and I encourage you to listen.
	Thank you.
	This is Carrie Cassidy from Project Camelot.
	I don't know if you're aware of the TV shows that are out there now, but they are pretty adventurous if you follow certain ones, like Dollhouse and Fringe and Stargate Universe.
	They're covering some pretty sophisticated stuff, actually.
	They are, and it really raises a puzzling question is what's going on if they're allowing those kind of shows to slip through or to air.
	Is there another different kind of devious plot or a double whammy plot behind it all?
	Interesting.
	I'm not quite sure what to make of it.
	I know.
	Well, I actually think that one thing is that they think They've won.
	And they think they've got the New World Order all sewn up and it's a fait accompli.
	And so, in a sense, they don't care anymore what we do.
	And that's one thing I get.
	And the other thing I'm getting, and this is not only from my own sort of psychic intuitive information, but from, you know, whistleblowers, obviously.
	The other thing is that, as you know, the precept of the Illuminati, Yeah.
	You have a background, don't you, in shooting things?
	Yeah, I have.
	Very much so, yeah.
	So, they foreshadow events and things that they're actually involved in.
	That's why I find watching television, when it's a decent show, like Fringe, where they're showing you, they're actually sending people through a portal onto the other dimension, you know, into an Earth reality that is parallel, a parallel Earth.
	And so there you have it.
	Yeah, it's really fascinating.
	And in some way, I suppose it's, you know, hide it in plain sight.
	Exactly.
	So it's all very fascinating.
	But of course, we're in this age of when truth is being revealed and you're all part of that.
	You have a really sort of twisted, in a good way, twisted background in terms of it wasn't a logical step for you to be where you are today.
	It doesn't seem to me.
	It wasn't really a logical step, but in many ways when I look back at everything I've done, everything was a dress rehearsal and a training ground to allow me to do what I'm doing now.
	And that's so obvious.
	It is so absolutely, painfully obvious to me now.
	Well, can you, for the purposes of this, because we are recording now, and if we could give yourself a little pretend that these people don't really know who you are, although that's getting more and more...
	Speculative because most people at this point, I think, do know your name.
	But at any rate, give your background just briefly and then let's talk about what all you're involved with.
	I feel quite embarrassed to talk about all the different things I've been involved with, because I suppose embarrassed is the wrong word, but all my life I've been called a jack of all trades kind of thing, because we live in a society that if you don't settle down, get married, have a family, have a steady job, Have a good career, so you can provide for your family and this whole thing about family values.
	I've been the antithesis of that.
	I just always followed whatever tickled my fancy.
	As a child, I grew up in a musical family.
	My mother was an opera singer in Europe, and so I grew up listening to music and listening to some of the finest classical musicians, you know, money can buy, and going to the opera and going to classical concerts, and then going into the show business on stage and television and so forth.
	While I was studying in medical school, studying pharmaceuticals, which is a five-year degree, at Wits University of Johannesburg.
	But while I was studying, I really paid much more attention to the other parts of my life.
	I played a lot of golf.
	I played music, recorded albums, toured with Joseph and his amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat.
	I played the part of Joseph for three years.
	And all this weird kind of stuff.
	When I got out of university, I worked hard jobs to earn some money.
	I played music.
	We went to Nashville, Tennessee with my partner Russell Sterling, recorded an album there.
	We came back and I got involved in the pharmaceutical industry for a few years.
	Then I got involved.
	Then I played more music and I got involved in advertising.
	I worked in advertising.
	Some of the biggest accounts money can buy, Coca-Cola, Nissan, Oh, jeez, I forget now, but just to mention those two is enough, I suppose, you know?
	Yeah, really.
	And many more.
	And beer, the big beer brands that you know around the world, South African Breweries, which now is S.A.B. Miller.
	It's the biggest brewer in the world.
	And I worked on many of their big brands here in South Africa.
	So my life has really been an interesting rollercoaster of all kinds of things.
	And just wherever my interests took me, I decided that's what I'm going to do.
	And I did it for a few years until I got bored and I decided, okay, I've had enough of this, I'll do something else.
	And that's it.
	In between, I was absorbing all this information and reading all these books and finding new avenues of knowledge and information.
	I realized, hold on, there's a whole big chunk of this stuff missing.
	I need to write a book about this.
	And then I did.
	I wrote Slave Species of God.
	And suddenly everything changed.
	Yeah, it's just incredible.
	What an unusual background, I have to say.
	But in a way, see, that makes you well-rounded, sort of a Renaissance man.
	If it doesn't sound too corny.
	And I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
	I actually think that's a positive in this day and age.
	Well, I'd like to think of, you know, when you mention the word Leonardo da Vinci, and in no way do I want to compare myself to Leonardo da Vinci, but, you know, this is a guy that did physics and science and anatomy and was one of the finest inventors of all time.
	No one ever called him a jack-of-all-trades.
	Exactly, and then he was a fabulous painter on top of it.
	Exactly.
	I think that, unfortunately, our society has been structured.
	As you know, the education system and the social structure has been very carefully planned to keep people in boxes because the control groups do not want people to be free-spirited and able to do lots of things because then they start thinking for themselves.
	Exactly.
	Because what happens with you getting into the Slave Species of Mars?
	There's an interesting twist, isn't there?
	Well, exactly.
	And maybe we should write a book, Slave Species of Mars.
	Exactly.
	Sorry about that.
	But no, since you went down that road, it's a spiritual journey as well.
	And I wonder if you could address that for yourself.
	Very much so.
	Very much so.
	Even when I was writing Slave Species of God, I found myself trapped between firmly believing and understanding, having a deep sense that there is a divine being, a divine creator, some sort of a An entity that we cannot understand,
	that's responsible for all this incredible stuff around us, and this thing called consciousness, and this thing possibly called Holy Spirit, and right now, actually where I am today, I'm thinking that maybe the Holy Spirit and consciousness may actually, in the end, be the same thing, but we can come back to it later.
	So, I made it very clear in State Species of God that people must not fall victim To confusing God with a big G, the divine being, the divine creator, this unknowable, unfathomable sort of energy and source that is responsible for all this amazing stuff that we're just a small part of.
	And then gods with a small G that are just advanced humanoids and beings that have knowledge of flight and genetics and manipulating Absolutely.
	Well, that's very important, and that distinction is, of course, lost on a lot of people that are religiously sort of obsessed.
	In other words, there is a distinction to be made between the so-called gods that supposedly genetically engineered the human species and the Creator.
	Yeah.
	And the other interesting thing is that, and you're obviously aware of this, is that the more you start studying this and you go into this and you research it, especially from a scientific perspective, you start realizing how everything crosses over, how everything is related.
	Suddenly you realize that this thing called sacred geometry, which actually means fixed geometry, It's directly linked to all of history.
	It's linked to our knowledge of modern geometry.
	It's linked to quantum physics and knowledge that we're only starting to rediscover now.
	And so it goes.
	And you suddenly get immersed in this wonderful place where Everything binds and connects with everything else.
	And I just really love that because the more you scratch away and peel away the layers of disinformation, the more wonderfully connected everything seems.
	Absolutely.
	You've got several videos at this point out, and I've been watching a few of them, bits and pieces, and trying to get a picture of what's already out there so that we don't go over the exact same track as everyone else.
	So I'm going to ask for your help in that way, but I also know that the truth of the matter is also that you are...
	That things are really moving along kind of quickly right now for you.
	And maybe you can describe, first of all, the actual finds and how you got involved with Johan Heiner.
	Is that how you see his last name?
	Yeah, Johan Heiner, yeah.
	Okay.
	And talk about that a bit.
	And then we could also talk about how you got involved with Kredo Moodwa and go down that road.
	Excellent.
	Well, Kerry, first of all, the interesting thing about this question, which I call the Great Human Puzzle, is I think it's a question on everyone's mind, or every conscious person has asked this question.
	Who are we?
	Where do we come from?
	Why are we here?
	It's the holy trinity of human questions, you know?
	And I think we're getting very close to finding some really solid and sound answers for those questions.
	And what's also very important is because until we know who we are, where we come from and why we're here, it's very difficult for us as a species to make any sound decisions about where we're going to go in the future and how we're going to mold the future for ourselves.
	And I feel very strongly about that because there's still people out there that say, well, I don't care where we come from.
	I'm here.
	I'm just enjoying my life.
	Well, that's a wishy-washy kind of answer in my personal opinion.
	I think that's a very good point.
	You absolutely need to know why you're here and what you're doing in order to know where to go from here.
	Absolutely.
	I think that's wonderful.
	And what's fascinating is that my work in Slave Species of God led me directly to meeting Jan Haina, who introduced me to the ancient ruins of Southern Africa.
	And thank God for you, Jan, because after 20 years of trying to bring the significance to the people and the academics of South Africa and the so-called informed educators, who we now find out are actually the opposite.
	We realize that we're dealing with evidence that everyone has been looking for, for all these years, from Zachariah Sitchin to every other author that's ever ventured into, you know, the origins of humankind and so forth.
	Eric von Dynakin probably being one of the first that started asking these questions and wrote some amazing work that still stands today, actually.
	And he did it without very much scientific support, just using common sense and logic.
	And now we're finding that we're sitting on this vast, vanished civilization, the remains, of the largest ever human settlement that's been constructed on planet Earth, here in southern Africa.
	South Africa, Zimbabwe, Botswana, Mozambique, and probably even further north over the Zambezi into Zambia.
	And we're dealing with, which includes obviously the ruins of Great Zimbabwe, and we're dealing with direct links to the Sumerian Anunnaki, the Anunnaki that the Sumerian tablets refer to.
	We're dealing with bases that were, without a shadow of doubt, constructed by Enki and his team, and the earliest gold mines on planet Earth, and the first civilizations that emerged on planet Earth right here in southern Africa, mining gold.
	We are now absolutely positively sure, in my mind, and a growing number of people around the world, that this is what we have discovered and uncovered.
	And that fills in a huge missing piece of the puzzle in that big question, who are we, where do we come from, and why are we here?
	And we can start feeling a lot more comfortable once you've absorbed this information and you've seen it and you've really identified the absolute vastness of it and the complexity of it as well, the complexity of these ruins.
	Because these people lived here for a period of 270,000 years, about, before the flood wiped them all out and just covered everything by several meters of sediment and soot and soil.
	And now this is all coming to the fore and suddenly I'm starting to feel that I'm being pushed in a slightly different direction because I'm doing a lot of talks on this.
	I mean, really a lot of talks and I'm taking this information as far and wide as I possibly can because I believe it's my duty to share this information since I've been blessed with the knowledge of it landing in my lap, you know?
	Sorry, go ahead.
	No, you know, I mean, it's all so fascinating, and I'm wondering, like, in terms of what Johan discovered, could you talk a little bit about that and then how you connected with him?
	Because I think people would be interested.
	I find it very interesting that you were already on a certain road and you'd written Slave Species of God before you actually got involved in this side of it.
	Exactly.
	It just shows you that this was inevitable.
	It was out of our hands.
	We were destined to meet, and we were destined to do this work that we're doing right now, taking the knowledge of this ancient civilization to the world, or the information about this vanished civilization.
	I was doing a talk in 2006, I think it was, 2007, I can't remember now.
	I was doing a talk in Pretoria on slave species of God.
	And Johan Heiner saw the notice somewhere and he thought, oh geez, because at that stage he'd read my book.
	But for some reason he didn't know that I was South African.
	I still can't figure it out.
	He obviously didn't read it very well because he would have figured out that I was South African very quickly.
	But he thought, no, I must come and watch this.
	This is an American author, and he's visiting South Africa, so I'll come and see what he has to say.
	And he came to my presentation.
	And when he realized I was South African, afterwards he whipped out his laptop and he started showing all these photographs of these circular structures of these stone ruins that he's been photographing over, you know, 15 years or so.
	And then he showed me...
	I instantly knew that this was highly significant, and this was not just something that happens by accident.
	And I knew that somehow I was linked to my research in slave species of God and early civilizations and origins of humankind.
	And then he showed me this calendar site.
	He said, I found this calendar on the edge of a cliff there near a place called Kaapsehoep in Pumalanga province in South Africa.
	And he showed me the pictures of his calendar.
	And I just couldn't believe it.
	And then a few months later, I came to visit Johan.
	We lost contact, actually.
	And then a few months later, I thought, I must phone that guy that I saw in Pretoria.
	Because that stuff looked so interesting.
	I need to follow up on it.
	I felt a desperate need to follow up on it and do something about it.
	And I was looking for his email or his contacts.
	And next thing, an email came through from Johan himself.
	Oh my gosh.
	To me.
	That's great.
	I promise you, it was that serendipitous.
	Yes.
	It was unbelievable.
	Synchronicity, wonderful.
	Totally.
	And I phoned him back and I said, you can't believe it.
	I was sitting here looking for your number to see where the hell I can get hold of you.
	And the email came through from your PA, from Johan's PA. Remember Johan runs a very large company of about 6,000 people.
	They're the biggest firefighting company in Africa.
	They rent their services to the South African government, all the forestry companies here, and they move out into other African countries as well.
	So he's a busy guy, but he's absolutely passionate about these stone structures and the ancient civilizations.
	He was introduced to all this stuff by a wonderful man called Cyril Horomnik.
	He's a doctor of history.
	And Cyril spent about 30 years investigating the influence of Hindu culture in Southern African history.
	And it was Cyril Horomnik's work.
	And you'll meet Cyril when you come down here.
	I must introduce you to him because he's a walking encyclopedia when it comes to the The links between ancient Hindu culture and Dravidian culture in South Africa, and specifically regarding the gold mining here.
	Many of the African, especially Swazi, well, many of the African languages show very distinct links to Hindi and, before I mention the names, but many Indian languages.
	And some of the customs and so forth.
	And this is very interesting because now we start seeing a multi-layered crossover of the ancient civilizations here.
	Although there is no doubt in my mind that the first civilization was here and every other civilization emerged from that, it seems that the Hindu civilization emerged from that and then came back here only to retrace its steps many thousands of years later as well.
	And so it just sort of came back.
	And so did the Bantu people, the Abantu people.
	As Kredav Muttwar tells us, Abantu is Abantu, the children of Antu, who was the Sumerian goddess, the wife of Anu, the children of Antu who lived in the land of Abzu, below the equator where the gold came from.
	Oh, wow.
	Yeah, very interesting.
	So they have it in their lore, in their verbal traditions.
	And that's how Jan and I got together.
	And then he took me to the calendar site that he discovered, and I said, listen, we need to write a book about this stuff, because this is far too important.
	And I started working on the book using his photographs.
	And, you know, when I finished the book, I said, well, we need to find a nice name for this calendar site.
	In the beginning, we were going to call it the Jan Heiner Calendstone Calendar.
	But, you know, I said to him, look, it doesn't really have a good ring.
	We need to give it a name that's going to be a catchy name for people to remember.
	And since we both believed it was, at that stage, we believed it was probably the oldest man-made structure on Earth, I came up with the name, Adam's Calendar, since Adam's supposed to be the first man on Earth.
	And Yon said, no, that sounds great.
	So we ended up calling it Adam's Calendar, and that's what it's called today.
	That's wonderful.
	So how does the Makomati, when you talk about the Makomati, is this the ruins, is this a distance from Adam's Calendar?
	Yeah, look, Adam's calendar is actually right in the middle of the ruins as well, but the forestry activity has destroyed most of those ruins.
	But even on Google, if you look on Google and you find Adam's calendar, it's very, very visible.
	It's very clearly visible.
	It's a beautiful sight to see on Google.
	If you move south from Google and you find the first open area in the mountains where there is no forestry, You will start seeing the stone circles, even on Google, which suggests that most of that forestry area destroyed a lot more, thousands more circles than were there already.
	Yeah, the destruction, I guess the destruction is just really disheartening.
	What...
	There has to be lots of layers there, because you're saying that the flood actually came and wiped all of it out.
	I guess that's documented in terms of archaeology, even in the traditional sense of the word, right?
	You know what, Kerry, it's quite obvious in some of the aerial shots how the soil has covered everything.
	There had to be some giant global event that was of such giant geophysical proportion which could have covered.
	Only such a large event could have covered this entire area under so much soil and sand.
	Okay.
	Now, what's interesting about that is that the Sumerian tablets tell us that the flood occurred and was originated in Antarctica at the South Pole, and that giant waves, like giant rubber bands, swept across the world from south to north.
	And that's really interesting, because much of the sediments When we see the...
	Okay, so the flood came, destroyed all this, covered everything by soil, and then the water settled.
	And then the civilization restarted.
	And 13,000 years ago...
	Everything got restarted, and more gold mines were opened, and they carried on mining gold.
	And I believe that that's when we start seeing the Olmecs and the Hindu civilizations start after the flood.
	They really come into their own light.
	And we start seeing them really becoming prominent in history from about 13,000 years ago.
	Where is Atlantis?
	I mean, isn't Atlantis even previous to that?
	Well, exactly, but I believe that Atlantis probably was sunk by the same geophysical event.
	Oh, I see.
	So, I believe that Atlantis perished in that same event.
	Okay.
	And the reason I say this is because See, there's so much information here, it's really mind-boggling, because Adam Scalander's alignment, the north-south-east-west axis, is out by three and a quarter degrees.
	Now, that falls outside the parameter of any current knowledge or information we have from astrophysics or precession or any of the, or Mick Malinkiewicz cycles or any of those.
	None of the current knowledge allows the planet's axis to move as far as three and a quarter degrees.
	Okay?
	So, what I believe happened is this huge geophysical effect, whether it was Nibiru that caused it, that came so close to planet Earth, as the Sumerian tablets may suggest, or whether it was a giant comet like we saw recently come through around the Sun, I think...
	Nassim Haramain pointed that out a couple of years ago, those very large comets that came into our solar system and vanished.
	And if it came really close to planet Earth, the geophysical forces would have been so huge that they would have caused such a giant flood.
	I don't know if you're familiar with Andy Lloyd who I also interviewed but he's talking about a brown dwarf and that brown dwarf does have a small group of planets that surround it from what he thinks possibly Nibiru is one of those planets and that it does come through and he believes it's on its way back in as a matter of fact.
	Okay, I don't know much about Andy Lloyd's work, so I must go look at it.
	It sounds really interesting, because I'd like to find out more about what he says, because hopefully it will corroborate what my theories are at the moment.
	Well, actually, this is a really interesting aspect of that.
	He started out investigating Planet X, and then found the brown dwarf, what he believes to be the brown dwarf, which is a second sun.
	And in our solar system.
	And then he got involved in investigating the Anunnaki.
	And you would think, I mean, it's just such an interesting synchronicity between the two of you, because you're both, you started out from different directions, but you both ended up in more or less the same place.
	And he's now writing, actually writing fiction books, but they are very close to fact, using everything that he learned.
	And he researched Planet X, Nibiru, the brown dwarf, for about 10 years, from a scientific point of view.
	Fascinating.
	Before he ever started getting into the Anunnaki, but it led him there.
	And that's what's really interesting.
	So the two of you may have quite a bit to talk about at some point, and he is English, by the way.
	Okay.
	Yeah, very interesting.
	I took a trip to England a few months ago and interviewed him there.
	The interview is on our website, so I do encourage you to listen to it.
	I find his work fascinating, especially the fiction aspect, because he's going down some roads that are really, from a sociological point of view, very, very interesting.
	Things about what it means to be an advanced species interacting with, say, people on Earth.
	Should that happen and should that become the way of the world in the future and what that would mean for us and what that interaction would look like, what it would portend for us, etc., etc.
	And you're dealing with how it happened in the past, you see.
	Yeah.
	So it's a really interesting idea.
	Well, I want to take you down into the future, because this is where my work really seems to be pointing towards, and a lot of, I suppose, intuitive psychic guidance is pointing me very,
	very strongly in that direction, and I want to come back to that a little later, but just to finish on the On the topic of Adam's calendar, I believe that whatever caused the flood also caused such huge geophysical forces that it opened up gold fields and pushed the underlying gold tectonic plates that were filled with gold higher up towards the surface of the planets, which then opened up the mining fields in other parts of the world.
	Previously they were mostly in South Africa and then suddenly after 13,000 years ago you start seeing mining in Americas and so forth.
	There may have been mining there before but I think it really became a lot more active after the flood based on my current research.
	And you start seeing the Olmecs who are expert gold miners and all these interesting new civilizations that suddenly pop up and they have very strong African features and you say, well, if the original gold miners were in Africa, let's take some of those and take them over there, at least they know what they're doing.
	Exactly, yeah, very interesting.
	So those geophysical forces then also caused the Earth to be moved from its original axis, where it was, to where it is today.
	And Adam's calendar is the proof of that, because these guys did not make mistakes.
	They wouldn't have structured a calendar site of such magnitude and importance incorrectly.
	Yes.
	Well, also, from what I understand, and I'm not an expert in this area, but from what I understand, the 19.5 degrees that Richard Hoagland talks about with hyperdimensional physics The location of the pyramid and the direction that it's pointing at this time versus where it was actually originally supposed to be angled.
	I believe there is a shift, you know, that's reflected there as well.
	Yeah.
	And I think we're slowly but surely going to start getting closer to some really interesting answers.
	Well, as I said, Adam's calendar proves beyond a shadow of doubt that the Earth's axis and inclination was It was greater than it is now by three and a quarter degrees.
	Which is really interesting.
	I'm sorry to sort of, I don't mean to be leading you off in different directions here too drastically, but I have to tell you that I'm also in touch with this guy named Bill Brown and his partner Richard Gabriel, and I don't know if you've seen on our site, I have two interviews with them.
	They're doing something called the Giza Geomatrix.
	And it has to do with locating something going on in the Great Pyramid, a heat signature that the military...
	I've actually gotten a source, a secret military source, that has substantiated the fact that there was a heat signature in the top of the pyramid where there's not even supposed to be a chamber.
	And then there have been goings-on on the Giza Plateau that are very nefarious lately.
	A great deal of activity.
	Part of it definitely to do with the discovery of the Hall of Records beneath the Sphinx, but there's more there as well, and I have to encourage you to look at their work, because they are also talking about a shift in the axis, and they're talking about something that might have happened even recently.
	You're talking about what happened in the past, but I'm saying that there's actually movement in the axis at this moment that they are...
	I wouldn't be surprised.
	I've suspected it for a long time and I'm glad to hear this.
	I'll check out this interview with Bill and Richard.
	It sounds really interesting and I somehow need to contact them to If they're more knowledgeable than I am about this matter, I need to speak to somebody and share this information with people, especially astrophysicists and so forth, that can help work these things out.
	Well, they're also using ground-penetrating radar to locate underground chambers under the Giza Plateau We have tunnels and so on and they're also using a certain matrix, star matrix idea that has to do with a lot of power places around the planet that involve pyramids and it may be that they should come down to where you are and check that area out because there could be an underground pyramid in that
	area.
	I can tell you one thing is that I know for a fact that we have a grave site at Adam's Calendar.
	The stone altar, which is about 700 meters north of Adam's Calendar, is definitely a grave site.
	And I originally worked out that it is the grave of Dumuzi, Enki's youngest son.
	There's a lot of references to that in the Sumerian tablets, how Inanna buried the Muzi in the deep Abzu on the edge of the cliff near her father's favorite place.
	And it all seems to point to the same spot.
	Yes, so what happens is you've got this culture, which is in essence the Anunnaki, and you're talking about the pyramids and the significance.
	I remote viewed the top chamber of the Great Pyramid and actually saw a being that was dressed in the ibis head costume, headdress, and was all in gold.
	This is Toth, I was told.
	Later, actually, wasn't consciously aware of this.
	Then found out that this is, let's see, I guess the son or either the father or the son of Enki.
	We're talking about the same people here.
	Is there something going on with all of this?
	There definitely is.
	Look, I'm becoming more and more in touch with this whole psychic and spiritual and channeling world.
	I didn't expect I would, but I am.
	I'm just drawn into it.
	The very interesting thing that happened, I know in some of the interviews you've had with David Wilcock, He explores the possibility that there's a reincarnation of Edgar Cayce.
	And you know what?
	For all intents and purposes, it sounds absolutely feasible and wonderful, and I have absolutely no reason to doubt that.
	Well, just as much as I have no reason or no way to prove it, I'll just go with the flow and listen to what the guys are saying.
	If it sounds intelligent and adds value, then that's fantastic.
	Right.
	Absolutely.
	And what's happened to me lately is quite interesting.
	Because people started asking me, well, why you?
	Why is all this information coming to you?
	Because I must tell you, Kerry, that I sort of feel like I'm at one with these words.
	Ever since the first day I came here and Johannes started showing me around and I went to the calendar, I felt an absolute affinity and I started seeing things long before anybody else could see things.
	Fascinating.
	And understanding things about this.
	And then I went and I figured out that Sona Alta is actually a grave.
	That it's the grave of Dumuzi.
	And incidentally, I asked Credo Mutwa about that, and he confirmed that it is the grave of Dumuzi as well.
	So, a lot of interesting things happened.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	I don't know, is this the point at which you want to talk about how Credo got involved in all of this, or how he already was involved in all of this?
	Okay, all about this.
	Because people won't actually know what his connection is.
	Yeah, almost.
	Let me just finish this thing because it's got psychic implications and I know that a lot of your listeners and your subscribers are open-minded and they like this crossover with hardcore science and psychic ability and so forth, which we know in any case is an ability that's proved over and over again by hardcore science.
	Right.
	So let's just get to cut to the chase and call psychic ability a real ability.
	And what happened is that one or two people looked at me and they were asking, well, why are you?
	Why are you involved?
	And I asked a few psychic people.
	I said, well, I don't know.
	Maybe in my past life I was somebody that was linked to these ruins and these structures because I really feel A very close affinity, and that's probably why I'm doing this work.
	And I've had several psychics now tell me that I'm a reincarnation of Dumuzi.
	And I found his grave!
	So I find that quite interesting, for whatever it's worth.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	Well, you know, anything's possible.
	There's no reason.
	You know, individuals are individuals, and they are reincarnating, and certainly we all have these histories.
	And I myself have a special fascination with the Anunnaki.
	And in fact, this is really another synchronicity.
	I was on the trail of the Anunnaki before I got involved in Camelot and was writing a screenplay about them and their return when I stumbled on what is called wingmakers.com and found that they had already gone down that road to some degree and had a story based around that.
	So then I tried shopping that around Hollywood and tried to get it made into a movie and it didn't happen.
	And that's what...
	It pushed me to pick up a camcorder myself and start doing interviews and start investigating this more substantially.
	I actually put my screenplay to the side at that time.
	And I'm about to pick it up again.
	This is sort of strange.
	Because everything seems to be pointing in that direction.
	So I'm really interested.
	So if you are the reincarnation of Dumuzi, we may have more to talk about than meets the eye here.
	There is some fascinating synchronicities happening around the planet, and some of this points back to Sitchin's work, and then it also goes beyond it.
	And I have to say, you have to perhaps mention that there must be some kind of a nod to Sitchin in here for you, even in writing your book, Slave Species to God, is there not?
	Absolutely.
	It's a number of authors.
	Velikovsky, I think the first time I read Velikovsky was I was still in high school and I was just so blown away by it, but I couldn't quite figure out what to make of it.
	But it was imprinted in my subconscious and it just stayed there.
	And then when I finally discovered von Deineken and I went through his books, that suddenly sparked me off.
	Several years later, I discovered Sitchin and that just got me on a whole track and I realized that there was this information that I needed to follow up on and find as much as I possibly could about it.
	And with my knowledge of biology and chemistry and all that from studying pharmaceutics, I realized that I was in a position to simplify it because many people that I spoke to about Sitchin said, look, his work is too difficult to read.
	For me, it's beautiful.
	I love his books.
	But a lot of people out there struggle with the style and the way he writes.
	It's too much information.
	So I realized that I need to write a book that any person on the street can pick up and read and make it really easy for them to read and understand and link all these things together, you know, anatomy, biology, etc., etc.,
	History, religion, genetics, link it all together and then tell the story of humankind, which I extracted from the translations of the Sumerian tablets from Sitchin and various other people and the Shoen collection in Oslo and many others.
	And there's just fascinating stories.
	Definitely Sitchin is a huge, I suppose, inspiration to many, many other authors.
	Absolutely.
	And, you know, there are a lot of different directions we can go from here.
	So, do you want to talk about Kredo Mudwa and how he, because you give quite a nod to him, very graciously, in your book about Makamati.
	And I guess, I think it's the Adam's Calendar one that you wrote.
	I'm trying to place which one I read it in.
	And at any rate, I think that it would be interesting to know how does he link up with all of this?
	Obviously, I've known about Kredo Mutwa for a long time, and slowly but surely, the importance of his influence started to grow in my personal body of information.
	I'd written Slave Species of God, and a friend of mine, Amanda, was visiting Kredo, and she I think we just released Adam's Calendar.
	That's it.
	I just released Adam's Calendar and my friend Amanda was visiting Credo and I got a phone call from her and she was very, very excited.
	She says, Michael, Michael, Credo wants to see you.
	Credo wants to see you.
	And I went, oh, wow, that's amazing because I'd love to meet the guy.
	I didn't know how to meet him or how to go about it.
	And she said, no, no, no, Crado wants to see you.
	I'm with him now.
	And I said, okay, well, when you finish there, get me his details and I'll phone him and organize to go and see him.
	Which then happened.
	And I phoned Crado and I had a long chat with him on the phone.
	The way it happened is Amanda was sitting talking to him and they went there for a day.
	They go there sort of once every six months with a group of people.
	And she saw my book, Slave Species of God, lying on the table in front of him.
	And it was a well-thumbed, a very well-used copy of the book.
	And Amanda said, oh, do you know Michael Tillinger?
	And Crater said, no, but I'd like to meet Michael, because I have a lot to tell him.
	And he said something like, he has an important job to do, or something like that.
	And Amanda said, okay, well, I'll phone him.
	And that's when she ran out and phoned me.
	Crater wants to see you.
	So shortly, within a month or so, I went down, I saw Crater, and I thought, well, if I'm going to go there, this may be the one Opportunity I have to see him.
	I may not see him again.
	Credo's getting on in years and I thought, okay, well, phone my friend who's a film producer and let's take some cameras down and let's film this thing if Credo permits it.
	So we arrived there and lots of excitement and I asked him, can we, you know, Baba Credo, can we film this interview?
	Can we record it?
	I don't know what we're going to do with it, but I'd just like to have it because I'm not going to remember what you tell me and I want to have it on record.
	And he said, absolutely.
	So while they were setting up their cameras and all that, I went inside and I presented a copy of Adam's calendar to him.
	In hindsight, now I'm so angry at myself because I should have waited until the cameras were rolling.
	Because Credo just burst into tears.
	He became completely emotional.
	He burst into tears.
	Well, he couldn't speak.
	For quite a while, he couldn't speak.
	And I got all emotional and I couldn't speak, so I was actually maybe glad that the cameras weren't there, you know, because I want to present a macho image.
	But anyway, and he just told me he never thought he would see the sacred place again.
	And then he started telling me how it is one of the two most sacred sites on earth.
	It is where heaven mated with Mother Earth, that he was initiated there in 1937, and I never thought he'd see it again, and I must do everything I can to protect it because the evil people of the country want to destroy it and all this.
	And he kept saying to me, Mr.
	Michael, Mr.
	Michael, you must go and you must do what you can.
	He said to me, only you can protect this place.
	I mean, he used words like this, and I started feeling a bit uncomfortable, you know, you're putting a bit of pressure on me here, Crado.
	I'm just a guy that found it through Jan Heiner, who actually found it, and now I'm writing a book about it.
	But in essence, what's happened now, because of the awareness that we've created around Adam's calendar and the stone ruins, we are protecting it.
	We've created so much more protection for the ruins than ever before.
	And I must actually bring this up right now because sometimes you've got to just look back at what you've done and maybe pat yourself on the shoulder without being too arrogant or cocky about it.
	But it's because of the work and the knowledge and the information that Your Honor started putting out and since I joined it we've just escalated to a completely different level.
	And never has there been such knowledge and awareness about the stone ruins in southern Africa as there is right now.
	Yes.
	So much so, Kerry, that what's happening right now is the farmers in South Africa, and I'm talking right across the country, okay, we're talking like thousands of miles apart.
	Farmers are phoning me, and I'm not sure if they're phoning Johan, but they know how to get a hold of me, and they're phoning and emailing me saying, listen, Please can you come to our farm?
	We've got some incredible ruins.
	We had some archaeologists here from this university or that university.
	They wrote us some report, but we don't believe what they wrote in the report because it doesn't make any sense.
	This is great!
	We've seen your work and we really love what you're doing and it makes a lot more sense to us.
	So please can you come and look at our ruins and tell us what you think.
	So we've created the consciousness among the farmers and the land owners who now protect their ruins where previously they were just destroying them because they were told they were just cattle crawl of little historic value.
	Wonderful.
	That's absolutely fabulous.
	And so this is how I got involved with Crater.
	That is so interesting.
	And the thing just spirals just amazingly from there.
	And at the moment you're almost inundated with visitors, are you not?
	Yeah, it's really become...
	I've made my bed, I better lie in it.
	At the moment, I've got Carmen Bolter here.
	She's a professor of...
	I'm not even going to venture to try and remember what it is.
	It's an involved subject.
	She's a senior professor at the University of Calgary in Canada.
	She's the producer and the creator of a beautiful series called The Pyramid Code on the Pyramids of Giza.
	And it is for those people that listen to your shows, I suggest that they check out the pyramid code.
	It is really a beautiful piece of work and very alternative.
	And Carmen is a very spiritual person and she's a breath of fresh air in the field of academia.
	So she heard me, I'm coast to coast actually, she heard me talking to George Nuri and then I mentioned her work.
	And then the next day, she emailed me and said, were you talking about me?
	And I said, yes, I was!
	And one thing led to another, and now she's visiting me for two weeks, and she's actually with Jan Heine for two days.
	And tomorrow night, she's doing a talk.
	We organized for her to do a talk in Nelsprecht, the town of Nelsprecht, which is the gateway to the Kruger Park.
	And we got a sell-out house, her talking about the pyramids, and We've been flying her around in Johannes' helicopter over the ruins here to just show her the extent of it.
	And I must tell you, after the first day when we came back and we touched town, as she got out the helicopter I asked her, so what do you think Carmen?
	And she was absolutely speechless.
	She didn't have words to describe her emotions.
	Oh my, yeah.
	She said, I just cannot believe how vast this thing is.
	And I said to her, well, I've been telling you, I told you this is big.
	But you can't appreciate it until you see it.
	Yes, absolutely.
	Well, I get such a feeling off of the photographs.
	And that's what's really drawn me to you and your work more than anything, I have to say.
	Because I had a girlfriend who told me about you and actually gave me Your book.
	And I looked at it and I thought, hmm, I was a bit suspicious of the whole thing.
	And then somehow, I don't know, I guess I must have decided to look at your website.
	And when I saw the photographs, They were so powerful, those stones, and I have to say that they emanate such an amazing energy.
	Even in a photograph, I was just picking up on really strong energy.
	I remember the last time we interviewed you on my radio show, I think it was during the summer, and you said that there's also a musical component to the stones themselves.
	Yeah, very much so, because all the ruins, this is brand new research, brand new information that I have as well since I've last spoken to you, is it seems that all the original structures that were built by, you know, 270, 280,000 years ago, all the original structures were built out of the same material, the same kind of stone.
	And it's known here as the Hornfelts.
	You see later civilizations that came through here that had no idea what was going on here before.
	You can see absolutely how they reshaped the ruins, they created doorways where there shouldn't be doorways, and they put different kind of stone on top of the existing walls, and you can clearly see the movement of civilizations through here.
	And that's also evident in pottery fragments and beads and jewelry, golden jewelry, and some skeletons that have been found from very recent civilizations, maybe as far back as 400 years ago.
	But nothing much older than that.
	That's pretty much where it ends.
	But then much deeper below the sand lies the real truth.
	We're dealing with over 10 million stone ruins and stone circles.
	So there was a vast population of over 50 million people here that lived here for a period of 270,000 years as a continued settlement mining gold.
	So there must be huge amounts of stuff buried below the soil that was caused by the flood.
	Yes.
	Are there any archaeological excavation going on there?
	You had a glass of wine, right, Kir?
	No, no, no.
	No excavations at the moment, because we just don't have the permits.
	So we're actually looking for archaeologists around the world who are interested to come here and with the right credentials and join us.
	Because we don't want to just get these other archaeologists at the universities that have already done these so-called detailed reports and may tell you the same stuff over and over again.
	They just don't want to get out the box.
	We want to work with the right-minded archaeologists that are prepared to face a new reality.
	Absolutely.
	Well, tell me about your research, at least even briefly, obviously, about the sound that you've gotten from the stones.
	Did that come through the channeling, or did you reach that a different way?
	No, it was completely accidental.
	It was just one of the ruins that's nearby that we sort of keep clean so that we can take the tourists there to really experience the stone ruins.
	And while we were cleaning, clearing the grass and so forth, the guys were picking up some of the stones lying on the ground and putting them onto a little pile of stones so you don't walk on them, you know.
	And as they were piling them up, I stopped and I suddenly said, hold on, but this is like, these stones ring, they ring, they have a very distinct ring like bells.
	And I just stood there for a while and observed them as they were piling up the stones and then I started walking around and I started tapping the stones with another smaller stone to realize that each stone rings at a different frequency.
	And I suddenly went, hold on, this is much more than just a stone structure.
	The specific composition of the stones It plays a very important part and a role in these ruins and their structure.
	And that's where it started all falling into place, when I realized that they were not just stone structures, but they were actually resonant chambers, and each stone actually performs the function of a string in a piano, like a string in a piano, except now you've got a circular structure that's got thousands and thousands of strings instead of just, you know, 72 strings that an average piano has.
	That's wonderful.
	And it seems that they would also contribute to their ability to build these things if they're using sound frequencies, because that's what, in theory, that's how they built the pyramids as well.
	In other words, by moving the stones using sound.
	Exactly.
	And there's no doubt about that this is what they were doing here.
	And what's interesting is that while I was in the UK, there was a chap that lives in the town next to me who came out and measured the...
	He's got some fancy energy measuring device that he used in his work in California, strangely enough, and he's moved back here.
	And he went out and he measured the energy in the stones and he got so freaked out and so excited he couldn't contain himself.
	He ran off and said, I know exactly how to create a perpetual energy device and he just disappeared.
	Also, I heard that one interview with you with Dan Burish, where he talks about them measuring the energy fields in these specific silica dioxide stones that they were working on in his project.
	And when I heard him say that, I said, I went, hold on, all the stars we're working with here are 54% silica dioxide.
	It's a very homogenous kind of, it's what they call a metamorphosized quartzite.
	It's very homogenous, it's mixed with large amounts of aluminium and large amounts of iron.
	And it's that composition that I believe is very specific, that makes it ring like a bell.
	It's beautiful.
	And so now we know.
	I'm convinced that this is what we have.
	We're working with energy devices.
	And when I start putting that together, I met a psychic woman who came to one of my talks.
	And when she saw the conclusion at the end of my presentation, which I'll be doing in Los Angeles as well, incidentally, when I reached my conclusion, she came to me after the presentation and said, Do you know what?
	Do you know what you found?
	These are the original devices that were used.
	These are the energy devices that powered the whole Southern African mining operation, you know, the gold mining operation, the getting ore out of the ground, the crushing, the moving it around, separating the gold from the ore, from the other metals, etc., etc.
	And she said it was the same energy devices that are very, very powerful and dangerous that sank Atlantis.
	These were the original prototypes, and eventually they misused it and abused it in Atlantis, and that's what caused, according to a lot of people, and Drumbela is one of them, that suggests that they misused some form of energy source that then sank the whole continent of Atlantis.
	And when she said it, it just resonated so much with me that I now firmly believe that.
	So we're looking at the original prototypes that were used for the right kind of purposes here, for the mining of gold, and they didn't abuse them.
	And then when they reconstructed it on Atlantis, they went a bit too far.
	And, you know, the Americans, I mean, sorry, the Japanese created what's known as a death ray towards the end of the Second World War.
	Are you familiar with that?
	A death?
	I'm sorry, a death what?
	The death ray.
	The death ray.
	Okay, well how did they...
	It was basically borrowed from Nikola Tesla, I guess.
	Okay.
	And with this death ray, it was like a concentrated microwave beam, if you can call it that, right?
	Like a particle beam weapon or a scalar weapon device?
	Yes, something like that.
	And with that, they were going to decimate and fry the allied forces as they came over the horizon, right?
	And if you look at the death ray, what was in the death ray, what was the power source in the death rays is known as a magnetron.
	And a magnetron, when you see the design of a magnetron, and you see the design of the stone ruins here, you fall on your back.
	It's just the same bloody thing.
	And once you realize that the stones used in this construction of the stone ruins are Filled with energy.
	They radiate energy fields.
	They resonate like bells.
	You can create a standing resonant frequency wave inside these stone circles.
	And they look like a magnetron.
	You realize that if a 6-inch diameter magnetron can smite the whole Allied army, can you imagine how much energy you can generate with a 25-meter diameter magnetron?
	Yeah, absolutely.
	Well, there is all of this, and from what I understand, the Great Pyramid also has some of these...
	These energy frequency powers, they've talked about that as well.
	Well, Carmen Bolton is now visiting me here in her documentary, The Pyramid Code, she addresses that very nicely and she actually shows you how they generated the energy underneath the pyramid with this very specific sound of the moving of the water under the pyramids.
	And then they channeled that sound of the water through specific structural chambers that amplified the sound and eventually became the sound at the top of the pyramid that was transmitted just very much the same like Nikola Tesla with his tower in Long Island.
	Yes.
	Okay.
	Well, I mean, we can see how the powers that be are definitely probably aware of this to some degree and also have been utilizing this in their own technologies, no doubt about it.
	Yeah.
	But this is coming from quite a different direction, and it's fascinating that in a sense you've been allowed to investigate and develop these sites Without too much interference, has there been interference?
	Well, I sense that the first wave of interference has just started in the last two weeks or so, with some slanderous rumors that have started being spread about me.
	And it's very depressing and it's very disheartening that people have nothing better to do than To concoct malicious lies and rumors and start spreading them on a relatively high platform of international figures that have bought into it and have actually swallowed the lies and disinformation.
	Well, since you brought it up at this moment, let's actually go down that road because part of the reason we're doing this interview now is to actually dispel some of those rumors and to make things clear for the people out there.
	We'll do this in writing, too, if necessary, to accompany this briefly.
	Let's talk about what the rumors are that are being spread, and then, you know, explain why, you know, we don't have to, I think we've agreed not to use names, really, other than some of this concerns Credo Moodwa, and certainly not because of his fault or anything like that, but that he's been wrapped up into this whole sort of campaign.
	Yeah, it's really unfortunate, Kerry.
	I mean, I absolutely, for want of a better word, I worship Kreda Mutwa.
	I worship the man in a positive sense.
	I absolutely am...
	A huge admirer of the body of knowledge and information the man carries and the benefits that he has brought to human race with sharing his knowledge and information, which has also caused him a lot of harm and damage.
	Because much of the knowledge and information he has shared with the world, he was not supposed to share with the world.
	And he felt it was important because of the controlling groups that are keeping us enslaved and dumbed down.
	He came out and started sharing a lot of this information that has allowed a lot of people to ride that wave and use his knowledge and information for their own research and so forth.
	And that's good because it grows the waves of consciousness and growth of knowledge.
	So I'm absolutely in awe of Credo and not in a million years would I Contemplate doing anything that could possibly harm the man.
	In fact, I think I'm one of the few people that is...
	I certainly count myself among a few people that has done as much as I can to help create a mutfa, especially with the work that we're doing and now publishing the DVD that I recorded with him to generate revenue for him and earn him some extra money, because the man is in dire straits.
	As I said, many people have used this information, but have not necessarily always rewarded them for it.
	What they're saying out there, let me just say, because I became wrapped up in this when I was contemplating a trip to South Africa and just inadvertently kind of stumbled on this situation And then I decided that using Camelot to do what Camelot actually is very good at doing,
	which is to bring the things that are hidden to the surface and to clear up the confusion and the controversy around certain things, in my opinion.
	So, what happened was we were getting rumors from a certain person who has been going around attacking you.
	Actually, there's more than one person.
	And they have been accusing you of stealing from, I mean, it sounded completely outlandish to me, stealing from Kratomutloa.
	By, number one, I don't know, not sharing whatever profits that you, supposedly you were taking donations and not passing them on, and then the other thing was that there supposedly was an investor who gave a large donation that was intended for Credo, and they're saying that you kept it.
	I know it sounds like drilling down and very detailed and almost embarrassing to even talk about this, but I think we're in a community where word travels just incredibly rapidly now, and this global community that we're a part of, it's very crucial that your work continue and that it not be tarnished.
	By these disinfo campaigns that start out with even utilizing people that think they're well-intentioned.
	I mean, I believe the people that are accusing you actually think they're doing a good thing.
	Yeah, it may be so.
	And I think maybe they do think they're doing the right thing.
	So let's quickly cut to the chase here.
	Yes, I've been accused of stealing money from Credo.
	I've been accused of stealing large, vast amounts of money from Credo Mutua.
	I've been accused of receiving donations aimed for creator mutwa and keeping it to myself.
	Now, it's very simple to get to the bottom of it.
	So I'm going to just really make it very, very simple.
	First of all, Categorically speaking, I have absolutely not taken anything from Credo.
	In fact, I've paid Credo royalties from the DVD on ZuluPlanet.com that I've spent a lot of time and effort and money to edit together and put together.
	You know what it costs in time and money to edit these things together.
	Absolutely.
	And put together a nice professional product of very important information and knowledge that Credo shared with me that day, the first day that I saw him.
	So that's available on our website, and Credo Mutual gets a huge amount of royalties.
	I'm not going to go into detail because that's personal information, but I think I sent you a copy of our contract.
	But I do want you to say that you give him half, which is more than generous in any kind of business arrangement, right?
	Yeah, Credo gets 50% royalties of all the sales of the DVDs.
	And that's important.
	As you said, that is far more generous than most royalties or most publishers or most people get in any kind of situation of this nature.
	Absolutely.
	I don't feel guilty about that and I will make that public if need be.
	And so Credo gets those royalties.
	We have not kept anything away from him.
	I'm not going to disclose to the people how much we've paid him because that's personal and privileged information.
	But the main accusation here is what really...
	It's actually quite funny if you think about it.
	So this is how it works, right?
	Somebody...
	It tells these journalists that they've made a large donation to Credo Mutwa, which they paid into Michael Tellinger's account.
	And I go, okay, well, and then he tells them that, and Michael Tellinger has not paid the money to Credo, he's kept it to himself.
	What happens then, these journalists, and they say, we believe that so-and-so has made, a secret donor has made, and the point is that this person has remained anonymous and secret.
	We don't know who he is.
	I don't know who he is.
	He must come forward and announce himself.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	Let me just say that we are now putting a call out that if there is such a donation and if there is such a person, that they need to come forward and name themselves and name the amount because Michael is not aware of it and has not received it.
	So go ahead, Michael.
	Yeah, so, please, if whoever is making these plans, if they've made a large donation to Credo, come up, tell us your name, tell us who you are, tell us how much you donated, tell us when you made the donation, and into which account you made that donation, alright?
	I will then disclose to you what my account number is, and we can check on my account, I'll make that public on that day, whether that amount has actually been received by me.
	I'm happy to do that, okay?
	But this person remains anonymous and they're just continuing this slanderous accusation that I'm stealing from Crater.
	And unfortunately, a few very prominent people that you've interviewed on your show have bought into this and they have believed it.
	And that makes me very, very sad because I hold my honour very, very high.
	And what I like to do is these journalists that are continuing this What they did is they phoned Credo Mutua and they said, you know, we heard that Michael Tellinger received a large donation for you.
	Has he paid you the money?
	Well, of course Credo said, no, I haven't received any money from Michael.
	Because there is no money.
	And they used that as their conclusion.
	They said, oh, you see, Ted Tellinger is stealing from Credo Mutua.
	So, it's so silly.
	It's so stupid.
	Okay, but there's more to this story.
	Let's talk about Kratos.
	You said that there was a town that was built for Kratos or by Kratos or something and that has been decimated.
	Yes, I see, and this is actually...
	You know, Kerry, I'm sure that you have this experience yourself.
	I find the moment you reach out and you try and help people, sometimes it turns around and it stings you really badly.
	I'm not a wealthy person.
	I really survive on the sale of the books and the talks that I do and paying back the debts to the people that help me print the books.
	Alright, so if people think that I'm some millionaire's kid that's running around, they've got the complete wrong end of the stick.
	And the story is that in the 60s, I think it was in the 60s, Krader Murtwap created this beautiful village, cultural village in Soweto, with a lot of his artwork.
	That was represented in the history of the ancient African tradition.
	It was his passion.
	It was the Kredo Mutwa cultural village.
	It was decimated and destroyed during the apartheid years, and then again afterwards.
	What has happened is that that cultural village means to survival and income to a few young Black dudes in Soweto that take tourists there and they show them this cultural village of Kredo Mutwa.
	Now, a close friend of mine by the name of Dave Gardner, I'm going to forward you his email because he sent me an email to basically outline the story.
	Dave Gardner went to Kredo's village in Soweto and he came back and he was just absolutely shocked and depressed because he also, he's a huge fan of Kredo and he's only 19 years old and he's one of the most informed and well-read people you'll ever meet.
	And he phoned me and he said, listen, Michael, I've just come back from Kratos Cultural Village in Soweto and it's shocking.
	It's a disgrace in the state in which it is.
	We need to do something about it.
	And I said, well, fine, I'll help raise some money on my website and find enough money to fix up Kratos Cultural Village.
	So what we did is we put a button on my website.
	We put some photographs Of the destruction and the broken statues and just the absolute mess on the website.
	And we said, you know, please help us make a donation towards Kratos Cultural Village so we can send a team in there and fix it up and clean it up so it's a representation and clean and get some respect back for it.
	Not only that, but also In a roundabout way, it helps some of these young guys to earn a living, which is the only source of living they have when they take tourists to this cultural village.
	Anyway, so we put that button on the website, and it was there for probably about three or four weeks.
	We didn't receive any donations at all.
	I'm happy also to disclose that quite publicly.
	Really, I mean, you know, these poor journalists, I don't know what they're getting themselves into.
	They're going to have to lick some, you know, kiss some serious ass after this because they're just lying or they're just being taken for a ride.
	Yeah, exactly.
	So eventually we didn't get any donations.
	But what happened then is when I got to Krado's house, when I saw Krado in March, I got to his house, you know, Virginia and his wife brought up, listen, some people have been phoning us and telling us that Tellinger is raising funds for Credo and keeping it to himself.
	And I went, hold on, where is this, what's going on here?
	And I said, okay, is this to do with the cultural village?
	And she said, yes, it's something to do with it.
	And I said, yeah, that's right.
	And I meant to tell you about it when I got here today is that, you know, we're trying to raise some money so we can send a team in there and fix up your village, the cultural village in Soweto.
	And Kralos said, well, he's got nothing to do with that cultural village.
	And he doesn't want anything to do with it because in his heart it was dead.
	So I said, well, if that's the case, Thank you very much.
	End of story.
	And we pulled the plug and we took the button off the website and that was the end of it.
	And at this point, so it's very clear that you didn't raise any money there and you're stating that unequivocally here in this interview publicly for all people to hear.
	So I really thank you for being so frank and being so open to even disclosing this kind of information.
	I do understand that, you know, this is an invasion of your privacy, but it's because Credo Mutwa has become such a cause celeb in a certain sense, and because your name is becoming so well known, and that, you know, obviously your work with Adam's calendar and...
	It's important that this not be, as I said, tarnished by these innuendos and rumors.
	I have experienced a lot of this myself of late, and so I know how it can be very damaging, and I appreciate you doing this.
	I appreciate you speaking frankly.
	Thank you very much, Gary.
	I appreciate you giving me the platform to do so.
	In closing, One of Credo's hugest allies and fans, I'm probably one of the few people that actually makes some money for Credo because as much as a celebrity as he is, he is in dire straits.
	And I sent out an email to my database around the world.
	I think you must have received that email as well, because I think you're in my database.
	Yes.
	Where I pleaded with the people to say, listen, if you can, make a donation to Credo.
	Help us raise some money for Credo.
	He's in dire straits.
	So if I had any ill intentions, I wouldn't be doing that kind of stuff.
	Yeah, and personally, I knew that it hit me wrong, because I'd had a very good...
	Experience with you when we interviewed you originally, but also just the logic of it, you know, to become so well known, you know, nobody would be that stupid.
	I mean, I'm sorry, you know, it would be pure stupidity for someone to do something like that.
	Because, of course, they would be found out.
	And why would you destroy, you know, in other words, you're not going to destroy your own work.
	I mean, it just doesn't make sense.
	And Kratos is a large part of that work because he hasn't Obviously, history and investment in all of that.
	Also, my relationship with Credo, and it has been damaged to some extent, because people phone Credo up and say, well, have you received the donation from Michael Tellinger?
	Credo says, no, I haven't.
	And then they tell him, well, we've made a large deposit donation for you into his account.
	And then Credo says, oh, well, so next time I phone Credo, I spoke to Virginia two days ago, and I said, Virginia, Listen, I'm just phoning to tell you, Virginia is all wife, for people that I don't know.
	And I was sleeping when I phoned, so I didn't speak to him, and I said, listen, Virginia, there's some people that are trying to drive up a wedge between us, just be aware of it.
	They're going to come and tell you all kinds of stuff that I've stolen this money, and they made donations.
	And I told her, ask them to show you proof that they made those donations.
	Don't just believe them, because I have not received any money for you.
	If I have, I would have given it to you.
	So Virginia is aware of it and by now, hopefully, Crado is also aware of it because I did sense that they became a little suspicious, and that really hurt me.
	It hurt me emotionally.
	Yes, absolutely.
	Well, I mean, it is a tragedy, and I have to say, unfortunately, it's been handled very badly by certain people, and again, we're not naming names here, but they certainly know who they are, and I do hope they're going to be listening to this, because it is very important.
	Well, I'm going to welcome you to LA, of course, and we're actually hoping to find a venue for you to speak at, and we're going to have to talk about all of that at some point, Michael.
	So, I want to thank you so much for taking all this time.
	I know we're actually, this interview is taking a bit more time than I even thought, but I think it's worthwhile because your work is so Fascinating, and I'm very anxious to come out there to take a look at what you've got going on and actually see with my own eyes.
	I do have one last question here, though, because you had said that you were going off in a little bit different direction, and I'd really like to hear what that direction is, if you are willing to share a little bit more detail.
	Thanks, Kerry.
	I'm glad you brought it up because I forgot and it is really the key factor here.
	I am approached at all my talks and my presentations by people and they say, okay, this work is fascinating.
	It's absolutely amazing and informative.
	Now that we know all this stuff, What now?
	What do we do from here?
	Where do we go?
	Because the world is in a terrible state.
	People live in misery.
	Everyone is stressed out.
	There is no happy ending for the way the world is running at the moment.
	And that's really where I'm going with my new work and my new research.
	And I call it a whole new social structure.
	And I call it contributionism.
	And the more I talk to people about it, the more their faces light up and they get excited and they realize that there is a bright, shining light and hope at the end of this dreary, dark tunnel.
	And that gives me so much excitement and joy because, in essence, I think that these discoveries of these ancient civilizations is giving me the foundation and the knowledge and also the confidence to take this new Proposed social structure to the people of the world because we have to find something new.
	Every single socio-political system we've had in all of human history has failed us.
	So it's no point going back and trying this again or recreating that or trying that one again.
	We have to come up with a completely new social structure and that's what I've concocted and come up with and I call it contributionism.
	And I'm going to talk a lot about it on YouTube in sort of small bite-sized chunks very soon.
	But I'd like to maybe have another interview with you and discuss that and go into the details and the various aspects of it because it's quite difficult for some people to wrap their heads around it because we're so completely and utterly conditioned by capitalism and molded by the schooling system that we have that some people struggle to really understand it.
	You need to unpack it in small bite-sized chunks and after a little while, when the pieces of the puzzle start to drop and you realize how simple this contributionist system is and how much abundance it provides on every level of the human social order, it is quite spectacular and it's very, very exciting to start thinking about it.
	In fact, I'm so engrossed in it that sometimes I forget that I live in a capitalistic world And I just want to jump forward and be in this contribution of society where there is no money, there is no barter, no trade, and no concept of value attached to anything.
	And there's a completely new approach.
	It's quite a spiritual and a conscious approach to life.
	And I think we're very, very close to that tipping point.
	Is there any way that you can put it into, I mean, you know, if you were to put it into maybe a sentence or two as to what exactly that is?
	And I have a theory, and I think I actually saw a brief statement about this, but I didn't get a chance to really get into it, so...
	At some point, yes, I'd love to do a follow-up interview here anyway, regardless.
	Certainly, we can deal with that subject in more depth.
	It would be wonderful to do so.
	In fact, I'd like to interview you in person.
	I think people are very strong in person.
	Obviously, that's what Camelot has been built around.
	Is putting a camera in front of somebody and really getting their testimony face to face.
	And so, since you're coming here anyway, we're going to have the opportunity and that will be really fabulous.
	But be that as it may, could we at least, you know, just tantalize people with a little bit more about the concept, what exactly it might be?
	Okay.
	I was going to say to you, hopefully I'm going to see you here first before you see me on stage.
	Oh, that would be wonderful.
	I would love it.
	Okay.
	Well, listen, my invitation to you is open.
	You can come here anytime.
	I've got Carmen Bolter here now.
	I've got Thursday a wonderful guy called Konstantin Pavlidis arriving from London, and he's an expert in what's known as EPC or Electrophotonic Capture.
	I don't know if you've come across that yet.
	A very interesting Russian device that was developed in around 1996.
	And it's very interesting.
	It measures energy flow in your body on a very, very sophisticated level.
	And we want to measure the energy flow in the stones, in the stone structures, and the effect it has on the human body as well.
	Okay, this is not, you're talking about, is his name Henry?
	He's a very well-known guy from England, I think he is.
	No, the guy that's coming here is the guy from Konstantin Pavlidis.
	Oh, I see.
	Okay, I'm thinking of this other guy.
	He works with some of this interesting synchronicity there.
	But at any rate, to continue.
	To come back to contributionism is In a nutshell, it is a brand new and never tried before in my research, according to my research so far, social order or social structure.
	At first I wanted to call it a new world order just to find a place on the Illuminati and take the power away from them, but I thought maybe that's a bad idea.
	So I call it a new social structure.
	Which is based on the concept of no money.
	You remove money from the system.
	Since money is the root of all evil, we have to deal with it, and we need to remove it from the system.
	Until you remove money from the system, you will not solve the problem, because it is the ultimate enslavement tool of the controlling groups.
	So, the new social structure eliminates money, removes all money from the system, but it also removes the concept of barter or trade, And the concept of attaching any value to anything, because once you remove money or barter or trade, things will not have value.
	The only thing you're left with is the natural ability and the God-given talents of people to do what it is that they're blessed with to do or what they've evolved into doing or trained themselves to do for the greater benefit of their whole community.
	And it sounds a bit utopian when you say it like this, but I can promise you that it is everything but utopian.
	It is an absolutely beautiful, solid system that works like clockwork.
	And it's not something that I threw together in a few weeks or a few months.
	It's taken me five years to put this structure and this theory and this hypothesis together and this blueprint together.
	And I've had to go through every single aspect of social life, food, health, education, shelter, entertainment, arts, culture, sports, television shows, furniture, science, space travel, you name it.
	You've got to go through every single aspect of human life and see how it will function in a contribution to society.
	And the one thing that I can tell you is the first thing that is a shock to the system is the abundance of things.
	When you remove the waste of time and energy that is spent by billions of people every day.
	Next time you get out of your house and you drive down the road and just look around you, 90% of the people that you see around you are doing something for money.
	They're not doing something because they love doing it.
	They're doing it for money.
	Just imagine the incredible waste of energy that happens there.
	99% of the global population wake up every morning And that they hate their life.
	They hate their boss.
	They hate their job.
	They hate the fact that they're in debt.
	They hate the fact that they have to stand up or catch a bus or catch a tube or drive in traffic, be in the rain and go and do a job that they don't really like but they have to do it because they have to buy bread and milk and put food on the table and pay rent.
	That's not what we should be doing.
	We should not be working for money.
	We should be working for the greater benefit of our community and ultimately ourselves.
	But once you realize that this is where this thing is going, you realize it's actually a fundamental thing.
	The fundamental substructure for contributionism is a higher level of consciousness and spirituality.
	It's an absolutely beautiful system and it works like clockwork and the abundance of everything from food to science to technology to arts and culture is astronomical.
	Well, I think it definitely has value.
	I can tell that right off just listening to you.
	And thank you for that.
	I think that it's an extremely sophisticated Idea for the planet.
	And I do think that it's quite possible that that's something that we are evolving towards anyway.
	And therefore, it's almost implicit.
	In other words, what you're saying is, you know, for each person to contribute who they are and what they are, which is what they do anyway.
	We're all energy, if you think of it that way.
	So, in essence, in just coming here as a spirit, as a soul, at this time, we are contributing to this whole.
	Now, whether we contribute in a positive way or a negative way is another matter, but we're all contributing.
	I must also add, sorry to interrupt you, I must also add that some people immediately think when they hear this, they think, oh, it's a free-for-all.
	I'll just sit on my arse and do nothing.
	And it's a lawless society.
	It's nothing.
	I like that.
	It's actually completely opposite.
	But we can get into that in the next interview, or in the next chat when I see you, where we can go into a lot more detail and actually break down the different aspects of this, because it really is so beautiful and so simple.
	Once you've started, once I've taken you through a few of the elements, you'll then be able to start working out all the other areas, because you'll understand the formula is so simple.
	Well, I do want to say that in a sense, and I'm just throwing this out and then we probably should close this down because people's attention span is not that long.
	And I did want to put this out as one.
	But the idea is a bit like a tribe.
	What I envision would be tribal life.
	In other words, each person simply being there wherever they are and contributing.
	On a very basic level, I think maybe that is something of a mirror or a model for what you're talking about, but in a much more sophisticated way.
	Exactly.
	It's very much going back to tribal culture.
	And tribal lifestyle, but tweaking it and bringing in some really new, sophisticated ways and things that we want to move towards, and that you put your finger right on it.
	That's exactly what it is.
	Okay, very good.
	Well, Michael, this has been excellent.
	I've loved hearing from you and talking with you.
	You have such a You have a wide range of knowledge and you're also very, very open.
	I noticed that before and I have to say it again because it's a very important trait to have right now is to keep one's mind open.
	There's so much coming forward in the future.
	Coming towards us, or we're going towards it.
	It's moving both ways.
	And I think people need to keep their minds open to possibilities.
	And I love that you do that.
	I love that you'll, you know, tread where others fear to go in the sense that you don't have to have a degree in this or that in order to Compare and contrast various disciplines and I think that that's, you know, it's all cross-disciplinary and I think it's a very, very good way of looking at the world because ultimately we're about breaking down barriers at this time and really finding the truth behind a lot of the facade and the screens.
	So thank you very much.
	Kerry, thank you very much, and we'll talk on Skype, and I want to get you down here very, very soon before I come to California and the United States, and I look forward to seeing you in South Africa.
	That sounds great.
	Absolutely.
	Okay, you take care.
	Okay, bye.

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