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Jan. 11, 2008 - Project Camelot
57:53
Project Camelot Interviews Richard Hoagland - Part 1 of 3
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It isn't the government.
There is no such thing as the government.
There are several governments.
And they're at war with each other.
A real incredible breakthrough in what NASA and Viking claim they were searching for, life on Mars.
Except, of course, they lied to us, they lied to us, they lied to us, and they've been lying on this subject for 30 years.
So isn't the scientific method to check it out?
No.
Instead of checking it out, they ran at Warp 9 in the other direction.
Do you want people to realize there's a way to do things without drilling in the Middle East and all the political and economic infrastructure that's been built up?
No, I don't think so.
And that plan Obviously has been in place for the last 40 years.
Every person to be sovereign, suddenly, where they would have unlimited amounts of energy from a thing running in their basement that they'd never have to look at and touch again for their lifetime, just by flipping a switch that would draw energy out of space, out of another dimension, that would be hyper-dimensional.
No!
Not if you're into control, because how do you control people?
You keep them dependent on you for the critical resources of life.
That when NASA went out into space, it would logically find evidence of possibly more advanced beings.
And it's said in the charter, you know, on the Moon, Mars, or Venus.
Well, advanced beings would have to be created by somebody, right?
The resolution of this paradox is that Ed Mitchell has had something happen to his mind.
Oh, that answer I did know.
Okay.
The astronauts, I believe, have been Tampered with?
Yes.
There are all kinds of papers now coming out in the open literature about technologies which can selectively wipe out your memories on specific events.
And I believe, and I have in the book, Mike and I carefully put in document after document after document of reference to all of the astronauts at one time or another have complained about not being able to remember What they did on the moon.
The lie is different at every level.
I'm Kerry Cassidy.
This is Project Camelot, and we are here with Richard Hoagland, and he's just written a book called Dark Mission, with his partner Mike Barra, and we are thrilled to be in his New Mexico home.
So from here, basically, Richard, We're going to run with you in the beginning and let you kind of lead us where you want to take us.
And then at some point I'm going to start steering you in different directions and you can fight me or you can agree with me.
Others have tried that.
You know, we can have a little jousting match or however you want to deal with it, okay?
Okay.
But we'll have some fun and hopefully we'll all learn something.
What can you tell us about this new amazing secret history of NASA? Well, it's been a story that's many, many years in the making.
I mean, at least 40-some years since the genesis of NASA itself back in 1958.
What I'm intrigued with is how it's a story that I've tried to tell before in various venues.
I've told it on, you know, the Art Bell Show, Coast to Coast.
I've told it at the National Press Club in a press conference that we did with eight other people, very prestigious background, NASA people, imaging people, in 1996.
And it's a story that I've, you know, even told on television.
But until we wrote Dark Mission, it hasn't seemed to take root.
Two weeks after the book was published, it became a bestseller on the New York Times bestseller list.
In fact, that's what this nice little emblem up in the corner of the book says.
That's not a mean feat to do when you've had no national television exposure on such a volume as this.
The only exposure we've had, the only way that people found out that we had written a new book and we were looking at the background of NASA and what They've been telling us, against the background of who they really are, was on the Coast to Coast audience and on the websites.
We have two websites, EnterprisesMission.com, which is the formal website of the Enterprise Investigation.
And we also have DarkMission.net, which is the official website of the new book.
I think it's kind of like the old Mark Twain quote, when it's steamboat time, you steam.
I think we are politically in this country, actually in the world, Particularly after the last eight years, all of us are ready to get to the truth, to drop the lies.
It is so overwhelming now, it is so in our face that people that we have trusted, that we have trusted with our lives, our fortunes, our sacred honor, That they've lied to us.
And they've looked into the cameras and they have absolutely told us lie after lie after lie.
So when Mike and I come out with a book that ostensibly is going to tell you the truth Behind some of the lies about an agency that is not center in the mainstream except during launches from the Cape.
I think that explains this grassroots groundswell where they literally, in the bookstores now, Barnes and Noble and the other chains, they can't keep it on the shelves.
Mike's brother went into a Barnes and Noble up in Seattle the other day and the clerk said, well, I'm sorry, Mr.
Barra, but we had 20 in yesterday and there's only one left.
And of course, that to me is really good political news because it means we're somehow connecting.
We're connecting with the American people and we get a chance to show them, to document the truth.
So what is the truth?
What is the bottom line?
And you can build the story however you want, but basically you're saying that NASA has lied to us, in essence our government has lied to us, because they're one and the same, right?
They're interwoven in some ways.
Not necessarily.
See, this is where people need to think nuance.
People need to be much more sophisticated, which of course a 21st century viewer or reader these days is.
It isn't the government.
There is no such thing as the government.
There are several governments.
And they're at war with each other.
And you see, occasionally, evidence in public that there is some kind of war.
But in fact, most of the time, the nuanced positionings are hidden.
It's really almost like the old feudal system.
You know, we've all been raised on stories of Robin Hood and Sherwood Forest and the Sheriff of Nottingham and, you know, King John and the terrible things that were going on in England when Sir Richard, you know, the good guy, the King of England, was off fighting in the Crusades and the bad guy, John, was basically trying to steal his empire behind his back while he was off doing good deeds.
What we're looking at in the current U.S. government, which the Founding Fathers never, in their wildest nightmare, except maybe for that vision that Washington ostensibly had at Valley Forge, they never imagined that there would be these baronies, these feudal kingdoms, these fiefdoms fighting with each other and with the American people over power.
Ultimately, it's all about power.
So name the fiefdoms.
Are you willing to do that?
Well, they're out in CNN. There's the Defense Department, and there's the State Department, and there's NASA, and there's the CIA, and all the alphabet agencies.
Remember, the National Intelligence Estimate that just told us a few days ago that, oops, Iran really isn't developing a nuclear weapon, and hasn't been for four years, was the compilation of 16 or 17 fiefdoms.
Intelligence agencies that somehow all got together with a consensus and said, okay, we really were mistaken before.
They aren't doing what the president has been telling you they're doing for months now, beating the drumbeats of war, threatening World War III. So people are seeing that there is this incredible internal food fight going on.
In the U.S. government that there is no one government.
There are, in the House and Senate alone, 535 governments.
Each member, each representative, each senator has their own perspective when they're actually answerable to their constituents.
Okay, are you going to talk about the below the level of the general consensus reality Governments that are also going on?
Well, that's five light years away.
Let's get there quietly.
Let's get there with some kind of transition.
Because for most people, the idea that what they see on CNN is not reality is a shock.
We're just beginning in the mainstream, what I call the bell curve, because that's what it is.
It's the middle of the road.
It's the silent majority, as Nixon used to call it.
We're just beginning to get those people to realize that their government, the people that they trust, the people that they elect, the people that they vote into power, It may not be the people really running the show.
That is a staggering leap for most people who really do think that when they show up in the ballot box or they go to a caucus or they participate in some kind of poll, that that has real power.
No, that has power in the public venue But the real determiners of our fate are being determined in private and in secret, and we identify in Dark Mission.
Notice that elegantly I brought it back to my book?
That was a lovely segue.
We identify the three secret power groups who are in fact behind and in charge of and fighting with each other for power under the NASA emblem.
And they are, because I can see that's where you want to go, they are the Nazis, the Masons, and the Magicians.
Very good.
Very good.
So that's actually stunning that you would actually name them, at least at that level.
Why is it stunning?
It's the truth.
Because very few people will.
But that's what Dark Mission is all about, to tell people the truth.
Because, you know, it's...
George had a guest on the other night.
He actually was a minister.
He was a pastor who was taken by one of the top vice presidents of Atlantic Richfield up to Prudhoe Bay in the 70s when they were drilling on the North Slope and building the pipeline.
And he was very fond during his four hours on coast of quoting again and again from one of the biblical proverbs.
You know, the truth shall set you free.
Know the truth and the truth shall set you free.
Well, the first step on the road to freedom is knowing you're being lied to.
And one of the mantras that we have throughout Dark Mission is a lie that was actually given to me by one of these intel agents.
You know, you get calls from these people, you actually even have dinner with them, they come to conferences, you never really know how much of what they're telling you is the truth and how much is spin, how much is a veiled lie with a bit of truth embedded, otherwise no one will ever buy it.
So you're constantly making decisions when you rely on sources.
Which we at Enterprise really try not to do, and I'll expand on that in a minute.
This individual gave me a stunningly interesting line.
In fact, it probably was the second most important thing that anybody in public life has ever told me.
The first was my old friend Gene Roddenberry, which I'll get back to in a second.
This intel agent said to me in one of our early conversations, reiterated over and over again, it's become kind of like an in-joke, you know, when we're on the phone talking to each other.
The lie is different at every level.
Meaning that even the people who are in front of the cameras spinning, telling you that the world is coming to an end, telling you that the dollar is crashing, telling you that we're running out of oil, telling you that we have to nuke Iran before they nuke us, telling you that, you know, Sodom had weapons of mass destruction.
Most of those people really believe What they're telling you.
Because they've been told lies by people that they trust.
So the lie goes up the line.
Every little group is controlled and contained and constrained by being fed exactly how much BS they will believe.
So they can come out in front of the cameras at like the National Press Club or at the White House when the president's spokesperson comes out.
She believes 99% of the stuff she's saying.
She's not in on the lie.
She doesn't know it's a lie because if she did, she couldn't be the actress that she is.
Exactly.
The lie has to be different at every level in order for the entire assemblage of lies to ultimately control all the rest of us and to contain the truth.
And by contain, I don't mean, you know, encapsulate it.
I mean suppress it.
Keep it away.
Tell me something.
When did you get clued in?
All those years back when you were working for Walter Cronkite.
Yes.
Were you clued in then?
Oh, that I wish I had been.
No.
I was young.
I was naive.
I was idealistic.
I was so enthralled with the idea that they would tap a 23-year-old on the shoulder and actually listen to my advice.
But I was paying attention.
I just didn't have the big picture.
I'll give you an example.
We had a meeting one evening in the executive producer's office, and it was on a weekend, and there was supposed to be this press conference by astronauts.
I think it was during Apollo 8.
You know, what you do is you launch from the Cape, you'd spend three days going to the moon, you do your thing at the moon, go into orbit, land, whatever, then you take three days coming home.
Normally under these missions, the only people that ever got to talk to the astronauts was what was called a CAPCOM, a capsule communicator, basically another astronaut.
And NASA set this policy up in the very beginning because you don't want confusion under critical moments of too many voices.
So even all the other flight controllers, all the other people at NASA that are running the mission, all funnel their information through one guy who then talks to the crew.
The first deviation from that really important and obviously responsible position was this Sunday afternoon when the astronauts were falling home to Earth, you know, nothing to do for two or three days between Earth and Moon.
I mean, just imagine that scene.
You're floating in zero-g, there's these incredible views out the window, the Earth out one window, the Moon receding out the other, and you basically Bored.
So what they did is they set up the first press conference in space where members of the press assembled in Houston got a chance to go on mic and actually directly ask the astronaut questions.
They had three astronauts on the Apollo program.
This was unheard of.
This was amazing.
This was wonderful.
This was transparency.
So we're looking at our clocks and watches, and we're looking at the monitors, and we've got the links, you know, satellite links to Houston, and we're waiting, in essence, for the spacecraft to rise above the horizon at Goldstone, California, where there's a huge, big dish, 64-foot satellite antenna, basically, that is looking at the spacecraft between Earth and Moon, and is going to take the signal, And receive and send the actual questions.
And of course, for that to happen, it has to be able to see the spacecraft.
Well, because it's on a rotating Earth, and the geometry of the Moon and where the spacecraft is and all that could not be changed, they had to wait for the spacecraft to rise over the horizon in the desert of Goldstone before the press conference could begin.
So we're sitting there and we're, you know, talking to each other and, you know, the executive producer got his speed up on his desk and there's a bunch of other people sitting on his couches in the office.
And are you at JPL? No, no.
We're in New York at the CBS News Broadcast Center on West 57th Street.
Oh.
Hooked in electronically.
Even then, even those dark ages, we had television by satellite, you know, and we were able to see what was going on.
We're watching the monitors, we're watching Houston, we're watching the press corps, and we're waiting for the astronauts to appear electronically.
They also had a TV camera in the spacecraft.
We're all waiting for them and Houston to be able to connect with them via the Goldstone ground station.
And the PIO, Public Information Officer, comes on from NASA and says, well, we're waiting for the spacecraft to rise above the horizon, the mountains at Goldstone.
So, you know, I'm 23, right?
And I'm thinking, that's weird.
It doesn't make any sense.
So I took out your typical cliched envelope and I started scribbling some equations.
You basically take the radius of the Earth and the way it rotates and the height of the mountains.
I leaned over to my executive producer and I said, Psst!
Bob, NASA's lying.
What?
I said, they're lying to us.
This was something so incredibly trivial.
Who cared?
But I said, if he's telling the truth, The mountains that they're waiting for the spacecraft to rise over have to be 5,000 miles high.
They had to be lying.
So it turned out later that what they were really doing is waiting for Jules Bergman Who had gotten drunk the previous night, who was the senior correspondent for space for ABC News.
He had gotten drunk, he got up late, he didn't make it to the press room in time, and NASA was covering with a technical piece of BS so Jules Bergman, who was their pet correspondent, could get on camera and ask the first question in this historic correspondent-asked-astronaut in space live without a flight controller or a Capcom in between.
That was my first example on the record of when I looked at NASA and realized they were lying, and it was so silly.
With that as background, as I got into this whole area of looking at Mars, looking at the Moon, Looking at the politics, looking at the secret societies, the agendas and all that.
That first example, where I was not believed, because who was I? I was just a consultant to CBS News.
NASA could do no wrong.
I mean, Wessler basically said to me, you gotta be nuts.
There's no way.
He accepted, we all did in those days, NASA's word over anybody else having to do with the space program.
Well, what Dark Mission is, is an expose that NASA can't be trusted because starting with those 5,000 mile high mythical mountains, they have not been for 40 years telling us the truth.
Fast forward, here we are.
You've written this incredible book and Tell us that little story that you were telling us before about the moment on television, etc.
I mean, because it's not real until it's TV. Well, when I got into this, when I started looking at data, as opposed to, you know, the mountain thing was just stupidity.
But when I started looking at data was on the occasion of the JPL unmanned Viking probes in 1976, where I was, again, a representative of CBS News at JPL for that incredible, unbelievable Viking summer, as we call it, the Viking summer.
When this nation on the bicentennial year sent two unmanned spacecraft to land on Mars for the first time, and two more to orbit, you know, taking hundreds of thousands of pictures, and it launched the official investigation of the possibility of life on Mars.
Well, somewhat after this process began, somewhere around the 25th, I think, of July, One of the key guys in the Viking mission, his name was Dr.
Jerry Soffin, stood up in front of us in the JPL now.
We're now in California, Jet Propulsion Laboratory, JPL, which I think you have more than a passing knowledge of.
And Safin stood up and he, on the screen, projected kind of like this, a picture showing the face on Mars.
That quirky thing with the little black specks on it, you know, with kind of a snarled lip that has been in every book everywhere on the planet over the last 30 or so years.
And he pointed to it and he said, you know, isn't it funny what tricks of light and shadow can do?
Big laugh from all us assembled press people.
When we took a picture a few hours later, it all went away.
It was just a trick of light and shadow.
So I'm there.
I'm another witness to this statement, to this process.
Fast forward the film.
I get into the process of actually looking at this picture decades later in the 1980s, in the late 80s, around 89, and I find that everything that Soppen told us also was a lie.
It wasn't a trick of light and shadow.
When you do the actual computer processing, it's a stunningly symmetrical statue, a mile and a half long and half a mile high, and we've had umpteen images now, we've had other independent, you know, computerized enhancements of the various data, there's 3D modeling, there's stereo, there's shape from shading, there's all kinds of analysis, all of it, by the way, performed by us outside NASA. NASA has ignored and simply told everybody, it's just nonsense, go away, go away.
Gosh, NASA says that.
Amazing.
But the key moment was when I discovered, when I went back through the timeline, is that Jerry's statement, and I can call him Jerry because I knew him pretty well, was also a lie.
There was no picture taken of the face on Mars a few hours later.
Technically, a few hours later, as Mars rotated in the orbit of this Viking camera change, That region of ours was in darkness.
They couldn't take a picture.
The next opportunity to take a picture was one month later, actually 35 days, and the picture was taken, which is unusual because at that time in the mission they hardly ever took two pictures of the same piece of real estate, and they had to wait a month to come back in the geometry and take the second picture, which of course, if you look at it from the outside, somebody was checking That if it was the same thing there on the second frame at a different sun angle, science says it's probably real.
It probably was a real face, it was a real statue, it was a real enigma, a real incredible breakthrough in what NASA and Viking claim they were searching for, life on Mars.
Except, of course, they lied to us, they lied to us, they lied to us, and they've been lying on this subject for 30 years.
That's what got me into asking, is it really that they're lying or are they just fools?
Are they scientists who have no conception of how real science It should operate, which is that when you see something so stunningly in the middle of your paradigm, you have a mission.
You have a whole taxpayer-funded mission.
Billions of dollars spent looking for life on Mars.
Well, a mile-wide statue kind of is life.
It's built by somebody.
Maybe.
So isn't the scientific method to check it out?
No.
Instead of checking it out, they ran at warp 9 in the other direction.
Okay, but if they were lying back then, and that was one of the first missions to Mars, then they must have been prepared to lie.
I mean, isn't that the supposition?
They knew what they were going to find?
Is this where the secret space program was already in operation prior to this mission?
Okay, this now gets a little technical.
Viking was not the first mission to Mars.
The first was Mariner 4 in 1965.
The second was Mariner 6 and 7 that occurred during the Apollo summer when I was covering the first manned landings on the moon with Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin.
And we went from North American Rockwell, where we had built a whole studio complex, including a walk-through solar system, which was my idea, and we went up the street, up the hill to JPL, to finish covering the Apollo return, because they were about halfway between Earth and Moon, And we had also covered the Mariner 6 flyby and 7 flyby of Mars, the second unmanned missions.
And then the third unmanned mission that was sent to Mars by this country, by the United States, was in 1971.
It was called Mariner 9.
But as opposed to being a flyby, where you basically take a few shots as you go away forever, it was the first U.S. spacecraft to go into orbit around Mars.
And it radically transformed all our thinking.
So, as I reconstruct history, I'm looking at the Viking images of Cydonia of the face on Mars, and I'm saying that there have to exist somewhere.
We have not found them.
They're not in any public file.
There have to exist secret images taken by Mariner 9 in 1971.
Because Viking was 76, you've got 72, 73, 74, 75, five years to have predetermined there was something really interesting down there on the plains of Cydonia.
So when we put Viking into orbit, they knew exactly where to take the new, much better pictures.
Was it discussed as a possibility that the Viking lander would actually land in Sidonia, but then it was dismissed as being too rocky?
Yes, you are remembering that exactly correct.
The first landing site was in something called the Plains of Gold, Crise Planitia in Latin.
And the second landing site, they were talking about landing in Cydonia.
Now, before everybody gets their hearts aflutter, you've got to keep in mind this is like talking about landing in North America or landing in Albuquerque in my backyard.
Cydonia is a big place, Mr.
Scott, quoting from Star Trek.
So even if they had planned to land in Cydonia, the odds are we would have been nowhere near the interesting stuff where the face and the city and all that is.
No, what's interesting to me politically is that after the initial announcement that they were going to land in Cydonia, after the first pictures were taken by the Viking 1 orbiter, The trajectory of the second spacecraft coming along behind, not even put into orbit around Mars yet, was changed so they would land in a completely different place.
So it's like whoever was doing the programming didn't want even the possibility that they might land by accident in Sedonia and see this stuff up close.
Okay, so I'm assuming that you're talking about ruins that they knew about, they had prior knowledge.
And you're saying they had prior knowledge because they had another space program.
That's one level of the prior knowledge.
That we can prove.
Okay.
Unquestionably we can prove, except we haven't found the missing Mariner 9 images.
We found Marinon images of other interesting things that were discussed.
Sagan and Cosmos talked about the pyramids of Elysium.
They're these huge, several mile wide tetrahedral pyramids located halfway around the planet from Cydonia.
And in one of Carl Sagan's books, he actually relates them in an interesting metaphorical passage to each other.
And I don't remember the details, but I thought it was strikingly intriguing, both at the time and in hindsight, that Carl would connect those dots.
But that's the only pretty hard data we have.
We know we had a spacecraft on the station, Mariner 9.
We know we had another spacecraft come along five years later, Viking.
It's logical to assume if we had really good shots, perfectly framed, of the face on Mars and the pyramids from Viking, that they could have had prior knowledge from the lower resolution images from Marin and I. That's not a stretch.
That's not a leap at all.
What I think gets really interesting is when you begin to ask the question, is it possible they knew there was something there to photograph at all from a long, long time ago in a history far, far away?
And that gets back to the three groups running NASA inside.
The Nazis, the Masons, and the Magicians.
Because two of those groups, the Nazis and the Masons, we know had textual evidence Ancient documents, stuff, text, books, records left over from a long time ago.
That's kind of like their shooting script.
They've been using it to basically go around the solar system and take pictures of stuff that they have intimations exist out there but don't have scientific proof.
Okay, so you're talking about ancient texts.
What kind of ancient texts?
Do you know the names of them?
Have you seen them?
Are they at all out in the public domain?
Yes and no.
And I'm trying to remember the specifics because there's so much mythology that in fact as you begin to get into what looks more like mangled history.
We do know, for instance, that Himmler set up a whole section of the SS to do nothing but go around the world and steal all the good stuff, all the ancient stuff.
In fact, I was so anticipating when Spielberg came out with the film Raiders of the Lost Ark that he was going to really blow the doors off and show us that the Ark and all the stuff the Nazis were intrigued with was not something out of the Old Testament.
It was, in fact, ancient technology buried on this planet, accessible from previous epochs of civilization, some of whom could have built spaceships and gone to Mars and done the stuff we see there.
That's not the direction he went.
Okay, but you're saying that's true.
Well, I'm saying it's possible.
I'm not saying it's true.
I'm saying it's possible.
And remember, a lot of this has to do with perception.
You know, there's an old cliche that politics is 99% perception.
It doesn't matter if something is true.
If politically people perceive it to be true and then act upon that belief, That can make it true.
So let's say that these two groups, who have access to secret information, ancient texts, the Nazis and the Masons, that they believed that there once was a civilization on Mars, for whatever reason.
And they went there when they controlled the space program looking for that evidence.
And bingo!
They found it.
That 21st century, I was with 20th century then, confirmation then validates the hints and rumors and intimations in those ancient texts.
Sure.
So are you positing that the Nazis had a space program?
No.
They wanted to.
They were building toward it.
I'm looking now very seriously into the possibilities for that kind of technology that early on.
What I find is a very interesting pattern as we get deeper and deeper into the whole Nazi era.
Who they were, what they believed, where they came from, their lineal roots, which goes back much further, it looks like, hundreds of years, than the brief flurry just after World War I leading up to World War II. The Nazi philosophy,
the idea that human beings are not from this planet, that there's this special race of Aryans, I mean, Aryans, Aries, Mars, duh, That that may in fact be grounded in some ancient documents which have been super secret, kept and revered, and deified almost, is not beyond reality.
I just don't happen to have copies with me this afternoon.
I'd love to see some.
Okay, are you in touch with scholars, for example, that are specializing in that area?
Absolutely.
In fact, one of them is a really cool guy that you guys should interview.
His name is Joseph Farrell.
He is in South Dakota.
He will be here in January.
He's coming here so we can have a...
He's an Oxford scholar.
He's an Oxford PhD.
He's written five books on this subject.
He meticulously footnotes, documents, tracks, references, unearths Amazing memos and a paper trail.
And he has given me, as a serious scholar, who also was a pretty nice guy, an amazing new window on the antecedents for the Nazis that the U.S. government brought over, buried in the core of our own space program, who seem to have had their own agenda, apart from Eisenhower, Kennedy, and the American people.
Okay, so you say, what do you say, Werner Von Braun?
Mm-hmm.
Kurt Debus.
I'm sorry?
Kurt Debus.
Okay.
Who seems to have been somehow involved in efforts to create amazingly interesting alternative rocket technology that's not rocket-based for space travel.
Free energy-based?
No.
Field propulsion.
Portion-based?
Field propulsion, which is a way of manipulating space-time.
So on the one hand you get anti-gravity, on the other hand you get free energy.
Okay, so when was he operating?
Kurt Debus?
Yeah.
From paperclip through the entire Apollo program.
So this is the end of the World War II? World War II, through the 50s, into the 60s, into the 70s, and he was made the head of Cape Canaveral slash, for a while, Cape Kennedy after Kennedy was assassinated.
And he has this entire secret background that never once has come out in any official document from NASA or any other place.
Now how do you know about him?
Because of Joseph Farrell and his stunning research.
He's got German documents.
He reads German.
That helps.
You know, you've got real scholarship.
We have always been, those of us looking at this cutting edge of the transition between fake history and real history, we've always been limited by the fact that there have been basically a field of amateurs.
Some of them are talented amateurs.
Some of them are idiot amateurs.
I have a phrase which, of course, has been made true over and over again.
Amateurs can get you killed.
But people like Farrell are not amateurs.
And when they have turned their expertise in scholarship Trained at a place like Oxford on this problem, you wind up with five amazing books that document page after page after page a real hidden history, the alternatives to what the Nazis were doing technologically and politically and how they almost seamlessly continued by going from one set of sponsors, i.e.
Hitler et al., to another set of sponsors, i.e.
the US government et al., without even a break for lunch.
And in the book, we have this stunning picture of Von Braun and all these paperclip scientists standing under a kind of a cute western motif.
It's a sign hung on spindles up above the assembled scientists.
And it's a UFO. It's an actual cutout in the shape of an unidentified flying object slash saucer craft.
And in the middle of it, there's this big swastika.
This is in the United States of America after we won the war.
And these guys are on shore leave, away from White Sands into El Paso.
This was a curio shop.
It's called Bob's Curio Shop.
And the photographs and the large ones are in the book, and of course the reason that the swastika on it is so stunningly important, as we describe in rather great detail in the book, is because the swastika was a symbol that Hitler stole from history, going all the way back to the Vedas, this ancient Indian tradition that talks about spacecraft and nuclear weapons and Vamanas and all kinds of astonishing high-tech stuff back at a time when there should be no such high-tech stuff.
And what Hitler did was to take it, co-opt it, and use it for his own political and propaganda purposes very consciously, because what the swastika is is an insight into an entire different level of reality, which I term hyper-dimensional physics, out of which you get, on the one hand, if you really do it right, anti-gravity, making rockets obsolete.
And then free energy, making centralized power plants and centralized power and the control of people through the price of oil also obsolete.
So on both hands, you've got under proven now Nazi research and development efforts during and after World War II, you've got the keys to liberating civilization all over this planet.
Six billion people freed And someone is sitting on that truth, and it's one of those three groups running NASA secretly, the Nazis.
The Nazis' line or lineage continued on to this day, is what you're saying.
Yes, even now, as we speak.
And we have descendants running NASA? Sure.
Sure.
Okay.
Is that okay?
I don't know who they are.
You don't?
Well, no, because when the old guard died, or retired and then died, they didn't say, oh, and this guy coming in to fill my place, he's also a card-carrying party member of the Nazi National Socialist Party.
So what you have is a philosophy That doesn't identify itself.
They've gotten more sophisticated.
They realized after the debacle of World War II that maybe people really weren't going to take to that kind of overt.
So what we've had now in this country, and you just look around, just look around, you have the creeping fascism.
You have the Nazi philosophy in every...
In every bedroom, under every roof, in every public communique, you have people trying to look into the camera and tell us with a straight face, it is constitutional to read all our emails, to listen to all our phone calls, to tap our telephones, to eavesdrop, to have the cable guy come in and look around to see if you're doing anything suspicious.
This is right out of Nazi Germany.
And it's not confined, unfortunately, to NASA. Okay, so when you talk about the Nazis running the space program, you're talking about back then, after World War II, you got the V2 rocket from what I understand.
So that's a group, right?
And you've got the atomic bomb that they're creating or they're taking the technology out of Germany.
Well, we have been living under the historical record The United States, through the Manhattan Project, overwhelming crash program developed the atomic bomb.
And that Japan and Germany are two major antagonists in World War II, although they had little small efforts.
They were going down the wrong path, they didn't have enough money, they didn't have the right guys.
It basically was no competition to the big United States, which put all this money, $2 billion in 1940s money, which now would translate to maybe $2 trillion of 21st century money.
And we created the atomic bomb and used it twice in anger against Japan to end the war.
According to Farrell, that may not be exactly what happened.
There appears to be, from the documents, A much more sophisticated, much more advanced, maybe even functional atomic research program in Germany which at least created and detonated one atomic weapon in test.
And in his books he cites where and when and who was involved and all that and yes it looks like that knowledge was brought over after the war.
It didn't help us during the war but it was brought over and amalgamated and in part we actually may have taken some of the uranium to be used in one of the atomic bombs from German sources.
There's a story about a U-boat that was bringing enriched uranium, and we got to it, and it was headed originally for Japan.
I mean, this is an extraordinarily new, interesting insight into how World War II was produced and progressed and prosecuted.
And it may not be, ultimately, when the end of the day arrives, it may not be that the history that we've been reading for the last 50 years is the actual history that everybody really lived.
Okay, but you have a group that's also dealing with free energy or these craft that the Nazis were also developing.
Maybe.
You always have to caution this with maybe.
There are people who say yes, there are people who say no.
It really, ultimately, science depends on the experiments and the documents.
Feral has unearthed some documents, but even those documents, when it comes to the actual technologies that they were involved in, these really cutting-edge technologies, are very ambiguous.
They can be interpreted in several ways.
Now, I think in part it's because the good stuff has not been released yet, or it hasn't even been found yet.
There are mysterious deaths associated with some of this documentation.
For instance, toward the end of the war, Patton He died suddenly and mysteriously.
Apparently he was heading a group, I think the 6th Army, that was actually headed for the border between Czechoslovakia and somewhere else to find in mines these buried documents from these secret black-ops Nazi high-tech projects.
So until you get the documentation, it's all rumor.
And remember...
So is the idea maybe he found the documents and then was killed?
Or he didn't find them and he was killed because he was looking and he wasn't going to give up.
We don't know.
And you have to go to Farrell's work to see that entire story.
And here I am promoting another author's work, which I really want to do because Joseph Farrell is a stunningly important scholar who I have the pleasure of knowing and, as I said, we're going to be meeting here in a few weeks.
Well, maybe we'll come back and do an interview with both of you.
That would be useful, I think.
Very useful.
So, but what I'm wondering now is, so we've got these three groups, you've talked about the Nazis...
We've only talked about two groups.
We've only talked about two so far.
Right, but that's where I'm going, is what I want to know is...
We haven't really talked about the Masons yet.
Well, not a whole lot.
No, not at all, really.
So, take us to the Masons and the Magicians, and how do they work in to NASA, along with the Nazis?
Well, the Masons, of course, founded the United States.
Okay.
I mean, Masonic tradition of philosophy is a stunningly important adjunct to the advancement and evolution of the human species, to, you know, the old army phrase, be all that you can be.
Masons are not bad guys.
Masons are good guys.
Are we talking about Freemasons?
Yeah, yeah.
They are heirs apparent of the Templars, you know, from the Middle Ages, who became very powerful by finding something in Jerusalem, you know, under the Temple Mount.
They became the most powerful organization in Europe They literally owned Europe, in essence.
They created a free banking system.
They created so many modern institutions that we would recognize when you go to your ATM. And then Philip the Fair, the King of France, in 1307, on a Friday the 13th, lowered the boom.
Killed a lot of them, imprisoned most of them, chased some of them, and never found a lot of the important stuff that they were keeping secret.
Including an awful lot of money.
An awful lot of money.
And the rumors have been that the money was stashed up at a place called Oak Island, and that's why FDR and other Masons periodically have funded or gotten private funding to go and try to dig it up.
And that's a whole other story for a whole other video.
Sure.
What about the magicians?
The fact is that the Masons were the good guys.
Now, when you are...
I mean, James Webb, who was Kennedy's administrator of NASA... Hand-picked, was a 33rd degree mason.
When you read Webb's biography, not his autobiography, which of course would have been written by him, but a biography written by somebody that was trying to figure out who James Webb really was, what Webb was doing, it's very clear in these pages, was trying to take the best of what NASA was created to do, which was to find out what's out there, To use it as a way to uplift the educational system, both at the high school level and the university level.
To infuse cutting-edge new technologies in American industry, which of course create products, which of course elevate the entire economy, the entire middle class.
You can look at his program and it was a mandate to take everything NASA found that he could get his hands on and make it useful for the benefit of the American taxpayer.
It's really all there.
You just have to read it.
What happened is because the two philosophies, the two metaphysical traditions between the Masons and the Nazis are so close.
The Nazis were able to come in and take over the Masons.
Almost unknown, seamlessly, secretly, quietly, like a thief in the night, as the phrase goes.
And I don't think the Masons ever realized until it was too late that they've been had, they've been taken over.
That the objectives that they were pursuing, which they also were keeping from the public by pronouncing, but they were trying to implement quietly, It's the secrecy that got them in trouble.
Because if you try to do things secretly, in secrecy, terrible things can happen.
Their biggest tactical mistake was not going public with what they found, instead of trying to implement it quietly, sub rosa, to gradually evolve this culture.
In a direction that it has to go.
Where aliens is not a dirty word.
Where we can actually talk about ETs and our ancestry and all the stuff that's out there that they found and not freak people out.
Okay, who found?
The Masons or the Nazis?
NASA. The program itself, the NASA program.
Remember, you have a program and you have people in charge of it behind the scenes.
But what I wanted to know is, back with the Nazis in Germany, They had this technology that was incredible, and supposedly they might have been back engineering.
They had the atomic bomb, you're saying?
No, I said possibly.
It's all not known.
It's possible.
There's a huge difference between possible and real.
We've got documents that lead in that direction.
They strongly intimate, but they don't prove.
Okay.
Not yet.
They don't prove.
But it had to come from somewhere.
It didn't come...
Basically, the idea is that there was ET contact.
There was a whole development of a psychic, you know, remote viewing.
Whose idea?
Back in the Nazi era.
Yeah, but from whom?
Good question.
I'm asking.
Well, I'm not a Nazi expert.
I backed into this through the NASA doorway.
I'm trying to back engineer politically what got us in this mess.
Exactly.
And I'm looking and we look in dark mission at these various paper trails and they lead back to these shadowy groups Good guys and obviously bad guys.
But they believe the same thing.
But remember, there's the dark and the light.
You can take the same knowledge.
I can take nuclear energy and make a bomb or I can make a reactor.
One lights cities and gives people power and energy and the other destroys them.
So there's always this double-edged sword with any knowledge base.
You can use it for good or you can use it for evil.
The Masons historically tried to use it for good.
The Nazis demonstrably used it for evil.
It's very, very metaphysical.
Okay, so, but going, if we've got a dark mission, and we've got two space programs, and they all stem back to Nazi Germany.
Possibly.
Their roots exist there.
Well, that's the reason.
The people running the programs, the heritage going through, the through line is the Nazi through line, right?
And the same thing Nazis and Masons, and we haven't talked about the magicians, But they're all stemming from some kind of belief in extraterrestrial life.
Is this not true?
Because where you're going is the face on Mars.
Is that where I'm going?
Isn't that where we're going?
I mean, in essence, what you're saying is that we have NASA in Relatively present day, lying to us about the face on Mars with an intention.
You don't just lie...
No, no.
It's definitely to cover it up.
Okay.
Now, why?
Remember, this is a nested set of lies.
The lies are different at every level.
The first lie that the good guys in NASA believed was a report that they commissioned themselves, just as Eisenhower was phasing out and Kennedy was coming in in 1958-59 and then the early 60s.
This was a report.
Remember, NASA itself was only formed 50 years ago.
When this was broadcast in 2008, in July of 58.
So a half century ago, President Eisenhower says, I can't have all these warring military factions trying to control space.
I will create a civilian agency, and it will be the nexus for all peaceful space activity.
The Defense Department will conduct all military space operations.
Well, the first thing we show in Dark Mission is that that's a lie.
NASA is not a civilian space agency.
It's a military space agency.
It was always formed under the fiat and control of the National Security Council, the Department of Defense, any of the intel agencies.
All of its data that are not viewed as appropriate for public knowledge or concern can be classified.
Even from its own people.
And it's not for public knowledge if it has to do with the control of space.
We don't know that.
We know, under the law, anything that the president or his minions deem classifiable can be classified.
They don't have to give a rationale.
Okay, but I'm asking you, what's the rationale for classifying the space program?
Well, if you have a vanguard agency whose mandate is to boldly go where no one has gone before, And you know, because you've got secret documents that say it's out there, that they're going to run into artifacts, ETs, old libraries, you know, generators, spaceships, God knows what.
And you don't want to tell the people that that's what you're really looking for.
Then you will create in law an agency which only can let them know what you want them to know and keep all the good stuff secret.
Which we now prove with the charter itself in Dark Mission is what NASA is.
NASA, every time a spokesperson comes on and says we're a civilian agency, that person probably believes it because he hasn't read the charter.
I have people now arguing with me on various conversations on the web.
I'm on Graham Hancock's forum in England, and there are people arguing that Hoagland doesn't understand how to read the charter.
That only is a metaphor.
No, it's not a metaphor, because there are several sections to the Space Act that clearly reaffirm the absolute right of the president to classify Any NASA data he does not want to make public.
That makes it a military organization.
Simple.
Civilians would be independent.
They'd be able to publish.
I mean, science that I was taught is publish or perish.
You find something, you write it up in a paper, you put it out there in the peer-reviewed literature, you let people all, you know, have at it.
You then get a consensus that, well, he's right on this and he's wrong on that, and we're going to go get more data, and the process goes on.
That's not what NASA is allowed, external to NASA, to do.
It has careful, clear prescriptions in the law that it can only release what it is allowed to by the President and the White House and all the various other branches of the executive branch.
Okay, but you're saying their motivation is to hide information about ruins that tell our history or the history of other beings out there?
Well, again, it depends on what you would find.
If the name of the game is to keep us suppressed through physics and technology, And you have an economy which consciously is now dependent on oil.
The world is controlled through oil, through the dollar.
There's a huge fight now going on about the dollar and the euro.
That's why we went in and invaded Iraq, because he was going to go to the euro.
The Iranians just went to the euro.
We've been threatening a nuclear war.
Gosh, let's put those dots together.
It's about political and economic control.
You go out to the moon or you go to Mars or one of the moons of Jupiter and you find a working alternative energy power plant that's the size of a teacup and can run half a city.
Do you want that in the public data stream?
Do you want people to realize there's a way to do things without drilling in the Middle East and all the political and economic infrastructure that's been built up?
No, I don't think so.
And that plan, obviously, has been in place for the last 40 years.
As the oil economy was building, as people could project, you know, people demand energy, they're going to want more stuff, more gadgets, we're going to build them computers someday, they're going to have SUVs, you know, all of the stuff that we take for granted that we sell incessantly on this screen.
Creating a consumer society that is fueled totally, ultimately, by oil energy.
Nuclear energy is a tiny percentage of the oil energy of the world.
Would you want to enter into that mix an alternative energy system, technology, which would allow every house to get off the grid?
Every person to be sovereign, suddenly, where they would have unlimited amounts of energy from a thing running in their basement that they'd never have to look at and touch again for their lifetime.
Just by flipping a switch that would draw energy out of space, out of another dimension, that would be hyper-dimensional.
No!
Not if you're into control, because how do you control people?
You keep them dependent on you for the critical resources of life.
And energy is a critical resource of life.
Try living in your home for two days without it.
You'll learn very quickly.
As Art used to say, you basically have a very expensive box.
You're talking about NASA is covering secrets because of technology?
No, I'm saying they could have.
They could have.
That's one possible rationale.
Frankly, I don't think that's the best one.
Okay.
All right.
My bet, and again, these are outside bets.
I don't have sources telling me this is what's going on.
And even if I did, would I believe them?
No.
I would have to find records and data and evidence to check, to counterpoint what they're telling me.
I frankly think it's the religious thing.
Okay, that's a huge leading.
Now let's cut.
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