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Nov. 18, 2007 - Project Camelot
59:20
BOB DEAN : AN OFFICER AND A GENTLEMAN PART ONE OF 3
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Time Text
Thank you.
It is the most important issue, in my view, in my view, in human history.
It's not merely That we're not alone, but we have never been alone.
I said it's lucky I'd end up in jail because I drove my friends up the wall.
I pushed my security clearance to the limit.
I used to get into classified file cabinets and sort through material and look for photographs and reproduce things that should not have been reproduced if there had been a threat.
From these guys, whoever these guys were, it would have been over a long time ago.
As one of our old generals used to say, they could have cleaned our clock from the very beginning.
Because when we started shooting at them, they had a unique way of eliminating all of the electrical systems in our aircraft.
That these guys could be walking up and down the corridors of Shape headquarters, or the Pentagon, Or the White House.
Were they?
I have always suspected that yes, they have been.
How do you tell Christian fundamentalists that that lovely man from Galilee 2,000 years ago was a part of that program?
He met me and he went over to the vault and he pulled this thing out and he said, threw it on my desk and he says, hey, this will wake you up, read this.
It was the assessment.
He said when the old man read that story, or with that report, the assessment, he says it hit him like a truck, hit him like a ton of bricks.
He told me that the general threw his hat across the desk and he says, do you know what the hell this means?
Everything we've got, everything we've done, everything we've had, doesn't mean a damn thing.
Monumental aggravation and frustration That the government had continued over all these years to lie to the people.
A real hero, you know, a real hero in a lot of people's eyes.
Because you came forward at a time and said, I signed an oath but, you know, it doesn't matter.
Come get me.
I'm going to tell the truth because people need to know.
I said it and I'll say it again and I shared it with Bill downstairs.
I believed from the very beginning and I still hold deep in my heart that this is the greatest story in human history.
This is a story of who we are, how we came to be here, what kind of a species we are and where we're going.
It is the most important issue in my view in human history.
It's not merely That we're not alone, but we have never been alone.
We have had what I have shared several many times.
We have had an intimate interrelationship with advanced extraterrestrial intelligence from the beginning of human history.
And that is dynamite.
And I've tried to share what I've learned, and I told Bill earlier, I will tell you what I've seen, what I've learned, and what I've concluded.
And this will probably be, I really sincerely believe, that this will be my last interview.
So I will share with you things that I strongly believe and strongly hold, that even today, it's the greatest story in human history.
It involves who we are.
It involves what we are as a species.
It involves how we came to be.
Now for many, many years I held to the view that once we could get this out, many of us who were military We'd say what we've seen, what we've learned, what we've concluded, experiences we've had personally.
And I kept naively thinking, ah, once we get it out, the public is going to clamor for more.
Oh, tell us more, tell us more, tell us more.
And then the government would respond by opening up and telling the public the truth.
Well, forgive me, I certainly have learned my lesson.
That didn't happen and I believe it isn't about to happen because the story is simply too big.
This involves our origins as a species, as a race.
I've almost reached the point where I am sympathizing with the government for not telling the truth and I'm to a point where I sympathize with the government by saying that the masses of people out there probably are not ready for the truth.
That the masses of people probably couldn't handle the truth.
Because the truth is incredible.
It's dynamite.
I use an analogy about Pandora's box, and I know you're familiar with the old Greek legend.
This alien issue, this extraterrestrial presence issue, It's like Pandora's box.
You can't open it just a tiny bit.
You can't just tiny lift the lid and let just a little bit out.
Because if you open the box, boom, everything's going to come out.
The masses of people are going to demand more, more, more, and more.
Which I believe they have a right to.
But that mass of information and fact Is going to be earth-shaking.
Literally earth-shaking.
Wouldn't you consider yourself something of an ordinary person?
I mean, obviously you're fairly extraordinary.
I've always felt of myself as a typical ordinary guy, yeah.
Alright.
And you handle it.
Not easily.
Not easily?
Really?
No.
Can you tell me what it was like?
Let me tell you.
I've been at this for over 40 years.
And I first began to get some information of what was involved here.
That, to me, was like a drug addict.
You know, I've never taken drugs.
Well, I smoke a little and I drink coffee and I have a little bourbon now and then.
But, sorry, I've never taken hard drugs.
But it was almost like an addict.
Once I learned, officially, from government documents, what was taking place, what was happening, God, I couldn't get enough.
I couldn't learn enough.
I was voracious to get more and more and more and more.
And I became a nuisance to my friends.
It's a wonder that I was able to retire honorably without ending up in Fort Leavenworth, which is a disciplinary barracks, by the way.
It's a prison, military prison.
It's amazing that I've gotten to this point in my life without going to jail.
Okay, well you were highly respected at the time when you discovered this information.
Would you say that in your career as an military?
Yeah, I had been given a cosmic top secret clearance, which was and still is the highest security classification that NATO has.
Okay, but cosmic top secret, did that mean to you that you were going to be let in on the secrets Of our, you know, extraterrestrial relations with other planets?
No.
It simply meant that I was given access to a military document, a study that NATO conducted from 1961 to 1964.
When I got to shape in Paris, 1963, I learned of a study that was underway.
I had had a top secret clearance when I arrived, which you had to have to get to that particular assignment.
It was a rather choice assignment, by the way.
Paris, in those days, took my family, my kids went to high school in Paris.
It was a choice assignment and not everybody got that assignment.
You were selected and you were analyzed and you had to have so many little pluses in your box to get that.
So, but top secret way back then.
I mean, were you naive?
Did you have no idea when you first came across this information?
No, no, no.
I had some suspicions and I was curious about the extraterrestrial issue.
So you had suspicions way back, what is this, in the 1960s you had suspicions?
Well, I went into the army in 1950.
Right.
And I paid attention and I used to read a lot.
And I always had a nagging suspicion that there was something more going on out there than we were being told.
Did you know about underground bases at that point?
No, not at that time.
Now, being exposed to this SHAPE study in 1964 was simply the appetizer for me.
It opened my mind to the point that, oh my god, this is real.
Not only did I see reports and study analyses and photographs, there were autopsy reports I was able to study, because there had been crashes and retrievals of bodies and all the rest of it.
So how many pages was the report?
Oh, the study itself was about an inch and a half thick.
Oh, so it's like a book?
Yeah, well, it was supplemented, supported by about 10 inches of appendices and, what do they call them, annexes.
Really?
There were ten of them.
So the study had laid out the problem, as the name Military Study will do, it laid out the problem, the purpose and the meaning of the study, and some of the conclusions of the study, and then it referred to the annexes, which were the ones that had all the details.
For example, there was an annex on retrieval of bodies and autopsies with photographs.
So once I got a chance to go through this thing, With my cosmic clearance allowed me access to it in the vault.
At any time you could go back in?
Well, at any time I was on duty in shock.
SHAPE is Supreme Headquarters Allied Powers in Europe.
SHAPE is the Supreme Headquarters Operations Center.
It was the war room.
I worked in there regularly.
I ran duty rosters.
I was a senior NCO at the time.
I was a senior master sergeant at the time, and my clearance allowed me...
I had a desk in shock, I had a desk in the operation center over in the corner, and I ran the duty rosters, and I was in charge of giving assignments and all to all of the lower enlisted men.
I even ran a duty roster for the Controllers, which were 06 rank.
Colonels, captains in the Navy.
We were in the middle of a bloody Cold War.
Okay, so it was during the Cold War?
This was in 1960.
I arrived in 63.
The study was completed in 64.
The Warsaw Pact and NATO were lined up along a divided Europe.
We were bristling with arms.
We had 50 divisions here.
The Soviets and the Warsaw Pact had 100 divisions here.
World War III was just moments away.
That's how close it was.
Young people like yourselves cannot imagine what that would be like.
So this is a serious desk that you've got, in other words.
Yeah, I worked in the war room.
I had access to the vault, and my clearance allowed me there.
So we're in the middle of what's called the Cold War, and you're reading about our relationships and interactions with alien races.
Well, let me give you some reason, first of all, why the study was concluded.
In February of 1961, there was a massive flyover of unidentified objects coming out of the east from the Soviet Warsaw Pact area, flying toward the west, coming over our lines, over NATO lines, over Germany, over France.
These objects were very high, very fast, in formation, obviously under intelligent control.
Did you see this?
And they were circular disk shapes.
Did you see it?
I didn't, no.
Was it filmed?
I wasn't there in 61.
Oh, was it filmed?
Well, oh yes, we had film of it.
Really?
How many were there?
The point is that Gordon Cooper, who I'm sure you're familiar with, one of our famous astronauts from the old years.
Gordon's gone now.
But Gordon shared with me one time, and he shared it publicly, and he said, when I flew over Germany in the 50s, He says, we'd see these things all the time.
He says, we wondered what they were, because it was obviously they were under intelligent control.
They would fly over our lines.
They'd come out of the Soviet sector flying west, as I said, over France, Germany, France, England.
They'd turn north over the southern coast of England, and then they would disappear off of NATO radar over the Norwegian Sea.
Okay, and you knew, or I assume, the government figured out they weren't Soviet.
Is that right?
The government didn't know from the very beginning, at least NATO didn't, what they were.
We thought they were Soviets for a time.
We learned that the Soviets thought they belonged to us.
But they were very high, very obviously under intelligent control, in formation, and they would come sometimes en masse.
The flyover in February of 61 was a couple of hundred of them.
They couldn't count them.
And they thought, oh my god, World War III started here.
Exactly.
Didn't the base at that point aim and shoot?
Everybody got on alert.
We didn't have the capability to shoot because they were too high and they were too fast.
And in those days we did not have the aircraft nor the weaponry to deal with this.
And they were always obviously under intelligent control.
So this is why the study was put into effect?
The study was initiated in 1961.
I arrived in 1963.
It was concluded and published in 1964.
And that, as I said, has changed my life.
Okay, what was the conclusion?
You said they came to some conclusions.
The study was designed initially to determine if there was a threat to Allied forces in Europe.
It was a military study, a simple beginning.
What the hell is going on?
Is there a threat here?
Is there?
Was there?
And they concluded, after three years, apparently not.
No threat.
Really?
That's right.
Now the reason they concluded that is, first of all, the technology that they had been exposed to, the technology that had been repeatedly demonstrated To our military, to the Soviets, to everybody, was so far beyond anything we had or even could imagine that the technology was almost out of this world.
No pun intended.
So, if there had been a threat from these guys, whoever these guys were, it would have been over a long time ago.
As one of our old generals used to say, they could have cleaned our clock From the very beginning, because they demonstrated repeatedly technology that we couldn't even begin to touch.
Okay, this is in the 60s, but didn't Eisenhower have a meeting and make a treaty with these people long before that time?
Let me get back here and tell you that this study was the beginning for me.
It opened the doors of my mind, so to speak.
I could never leave it.
I could never lay it down.
I could never walk away from it after that.
And I kept, over the years, learning more and studying more.
And as I said, it's lucky I didn't end up in jail.
Because I drove my friends up the wall.
I pushed my security clearance to the limit.
I used to get into classified file cabinets and sort through material and look for photographs and reproduce things that should not have been reproduced.
I was a damn nuisance, I'm sure.
So where's the stuff that you...
You see, I knew just this much.
But I wanted to know this much.
I understand.
And over the years, I learned this much.
Okay, but what happened to all that stuff that you photocopied?
Oh my god.
Is that a secret?
Is that part of the reason why you haven't been done?
The material that I photocopied, I don't have anymore, because being somewhat intelligent, I knew that having classified material in my possession that I was not authorized to have meant jail.
And as I jokingly said, going to Fort Leavenworth for 30 years.
So I destroyed it, but I put it here.
And I remembered and I memorized and I kept notes for years and years.
I had a whole series of notes.
Well, okay, to get back to my question, though.
Eisenhower had a meeting, theoretically, with aliens.
Truman had given a shoot-down order years before you ever read the study.
Eisenhower never gave that order.
That was given by an Air Force general.
I can't remember the year, but I believe it was in the early 60s that an Air Force general gave an order to shoot them down.
That order was revoked within 90 days because...
Something like 30 aircraft.
Because when we started shooting at them, they had a unique way of eliminating all of the electrical systems in our aircraft.
They didn't shoot bullets at us.
We shot bullets at them and missiles and everything else.
But if we attacked them, They had an incredible scientific procedure where they could literally nullify all of the electrical operations in our aircraft.
Now if you're flying a high performance jet and you're at 30,000 feet going 400-500 miles an hour and all of a sudden everything goes dead.
And jet pilots used to share that flying one of those 100 series planes was like flying an anvil.
They had no glide capability.
They were heavy.
They were overly armed and, you know, they were heavy aircraft.
The only thing that kept them in the sky was a powerful jet engine that kept them going.
So if they lost all of their electrical controls, their controls, they couldn't even steer for God's sake, the plane just began going, as I said, it fell like an anvil.
Well, we lost a lot of aircraft.
A lot of guys got out.
They bailed out in time.
A lot of planes were lost.
We lost a few pilots.
Now that order to shoot them down was revoked within 90 days.
And they never issued that again because they learned their lesson.
Don't mess with these guys.
Okay, but you're telling me that you read a report in which the military states that their technology is not up to par so that they can't compete with people that are flying over, invading their airspace, etc., etc.
They don't know...
I mean, I'm assuming they didn't know What their M.O. was.
They didn't know what they were there to do, right?
Let me tell you briefly what the conclusions of this three-year study was.
They concluded that apparently there was not a threat involved because the repeated demonstrations of technology were so beyond anything we could do or match that if they were angry at us or hostile, it would be over.
Okay, but the logic of that is not...
it doesn't fit.
Let me continue.
Just because you can't compete doesn't mean it's not a threat.
It still could be a threat.
Let me go on.
It could be an implied threat.
This three-year study did not find any example of overt hostility on their part.
They were not shooting our planes down.
We would shoot at them, but they would, you know, poo-poo.
It's like throwing little pebbles at somebody, see?
They concluded after the three-year study that we were dealing not with one group, but we were dealing with at least four separate groups.
Photographs of crashes, retrievals, landings, and contacts where they had landed and contacted people indicated that they were humanoid, all of the four different groups.
Out of the four different groups, all humanoid, one group was so human-looking, just like us.
They could sit next to us in a restaurant, they could sit next to you in a theater, and you would never know.
That was the ones that bothered the admirals and the generals the most.
That these guys could be walking up and down the corridors of Shape headquarters, or the Pentagon, or the White House.
Were they?
I have always suspected that yes, they have been.
Okay, have you met any?
I've met a couple who I am convinced were from somewhere else, yes.
Okay.
But that's another story, and we'd be here till midnight if I got into that.
Let me finish with what I was telling you about the shape study.
The assessment concluded.
We were dealing with incredibly advanced technology.
We were dealing with four different groups, all humanoid, but one group looked totally human.
We concluded in this study that they were from somewhere else, another planet, another star system, perhaps another galaxy.
We concluded that they were not malevolent or hostile.
Overtly.
They certainly were able to defend themselves.
But they did not have an agenda, an aggressive agenda that was hostile, because they had not Smashed and torn and broken and destroyed our military.
And this is prior to the abduction scenario that has since come to the fore?
Oh, yeah.
This was an initial study in 1964 based on three years of research by the military.
Now, who did the study?
The military.
But who in the military?
I'm assuming you weren't part of this.
No, I wasn't.
I was working in the war room at Schach.
I mean, was it the Americans?
Was it the Germans?
Was it the Germans?
The study was underway when I arrived.
It was made up of NATO members.
There were Germans involved.
There were French involved.
There were Italians involved.
Scientists?
Americans.
They went to some universities and got some of the top people.
They got historians, Oxford, Cambridge.
They got physicists from several of the top universities in Europe.
It was a thorough study.
Was it signed by their, in other words, did they sign off on the study?
Do you have names?
The individuals who contributed to it, the bits and pieces, would put initials to, you know, a particular part to it.
You would have anthropologists, historians, Geologists.
Okay, but do you know their names?
I don't know if you're going to tell me that.
No, I know the names of the guys that I was with at Shape headquarters who read the damn thing and signed off on it, yes.
Okay, but what about the ones that worked on the site itself?
No, the individuals, I never kept those names because, as I said, this was classified.
If I had ever been caught with a piece of paper from this study, I could have gone to jail.
But someone you were working with gave you this to read.
I'll tell you how that happened.
One morning, one or two in the morning, we were on these long shifts.
I'm bored to death.
The coffee was so black you couldn't drink it.
The phones are not ringing.
The telegraphs were not going off.
It was boring as hell.
It happens a lot.
The old story is military life is 99% boredom and 1% total disaster, total terror.
But we were going through the 99% boredom, you know.
And I'm sitting there nodding off and read old newspapers, magazines and all.
The controller on duty at the time was an Air Force bird colonel, what we called an 06.
All controllers were 6th level.
And I ran their duty roster.
He looked at me and he went over to the vault and he pulled this thing out and he said, threw it on my desk and he says, hey, this will wake you up, read this.
It was the assessment.
And it dealt with UFOs.
And it concluded that there were extraterrestrials coming here, had been coming a very long time, Sometimes estimates of a thousand years, two thousand years.
Historical records in the assessment itself indicated that the Romans had been paying attention to them two thousand years ago.
So I'm going through this thing and history was one of my majors when I was in college.
Good God, this is dynamite.
The more I read, the more I wanted to read, and I went through the whole damn thing.
And then later, every time I was on duty in shock, I would go over to the vault, pull it out, go through it again.
So you'd have conversations with your...
We had limited conversations, because you could not discuss classified material outside of shock, because there were too many ears.
We were having a problem in those days, and let me give you another little side bit here of history.
We were in the middle of a vast French spy ring, which if you really want to do the follow-up on that, you get a book by Leon Uris called Topaz.
It was made into a movie.
Juris laid it out.
A French spy ring was going on in Paris.
I was there at the time and we would find, we'd find French Air Force officers.
We found a French general one time in the woods outside of Cheikh with a bullet hole in his head.
Guys were jumping out of apartments in Paris.
It was a major scandal.
De Gaulle was the president.
Okay, but what was the objective of the spy ring?
The spy ring was Soviet.
To find out what we knew that they didn't know.
So they had been buying and paying off people all over Europe.
Hungarians, French, Germans.
So what has that got to do with finding the assessment?
What it got to do as a side is that the UFO issue, no information ever came from Washington or London to shape headquarters on the UFO matter.
Because of the French spy ring.
Everything that came from Washington and London to Paris ended up in Moscow.
So the NATO headquarters staff, the Admiral, there was a British Air Marshal, Thomas Pike, was a deputy secure.
He was an assistant deputy to my boss, an American four-star general by the name of Lyman Lemditzer.
Sir Thomas Pike, after the incident in February of 61, said, we're going to have to figure out what the hell's going on here.
We're getting nothing from Washington or London on this issue.
We ask, they don't send anything.
We ask them for information and insight on these objects.
Who are they?
What's happening?
Nothing.
Well, nothing was because everything that came from Washington and London ended up in Moscow, thanks to the French, the Hungarians and the Germans and all.
So the study was initiated strictly as a military idea to conclude what the hell was happening for us here.
Is there a threat, yes or no?
They concluded apparently not because these guys had been coming and going for a long time.
The history annex took it back a couple of thousand years.
The records, the photographs, the drawings, the paintings, it was unbelievable material.
This was all just wild for me, you see.
Okay, but you were, this is after World War II. Yes.
This is after Germany had, you know, paperclip and...
Germany was divided.
Okay.
And you were on West?
We were West.
We were Western Europe.
The Warsaw Pact was Eastern Europe.
So are you saying that the technology that was used by Hitler and his group, some of which was brought back to the United States, was not known to the people in NATO that were doing this report?
Of course not.
It was highly classified.
But it's a classified document.
So you're saying there is classification...
Yeah, but you have a classified document here, and then you have a classified document here, and the guys who wrote this one and have access to this one can't read that one because they don't have the need to know.
Now, the guys that have got this one and wrote it and read it and talk about it, They can't read this one because that's another separate classified document.
Okay, this guy Pike, right?
He's the guy in charge.
Thomas Pike, Air Marshal Sir Thomas Pike, initiated the study in February of 61 and says...
He had a need to know.
I want to know what the hell's going on and they started the study.
He's in a military, he's in NATO. There's some kind of animosity, I don't know, to this day between NATO, right, and the U.S. and...
Honey, you should have seen the animosity that existed in Shape Headquarters itself.
It was so bad that the Greeks and the Turks wouldn't even walk on the same side of the corridor.
Cyprus was an issue back then, still is.
So we had Greeks and Turks snarling and frowning at each other, and we had the French.
Excuse me, bless their hearts.
The French were a pain in the butt from the very beginning.
Why?
Well, first of all, de Gaulle hated the fact that Churchill and Truman had not given him the appropriate respect that he felt he deserved.
One of the reasons that happened while I was there is that France withdrew from the military alliance.
De Gaulle threw us out.
We had to pack our bags and move the entire kit and caboodle from Paris to Brussels.
And I was there at the time when it happened.
Okay, now where are you reading the report before or after this happens?
I'm reading the report in Paris.
Shape was located in a little town called Chateau, Rokincourt, right outside of Paris.
Little old Napoleonic battle took place there somewhere.
Anyhow, the animosity between the French and everybody else The Germans, the Italians and the Americans and the Brits were all like this.
The French were over here.
But you're saying that the guy who initiated the report is Pike?
Pike.
Okay.
And you're saying, I mean, he clearly had a need to know if he's having flyovers and U.S. is hearing about this, Britain is hearing about this, the people at the top are hearing about this.
So, he does this report on his own or something?
No.
That's what it's sounding like.
I mean, he had a need to know, so theoretically...
He was a five-star rank air marshal.
He had authority to initiate a study like this, and he did.
Okay.
Where did it go from there?
Do you know?
Did it go to the U.S.? Did it go to...
No.
No.
It sat in a safe somewhere?
They published 15 copies.
Right.
A copy went to the U.S. First copy one went to the Secretary General of NATO. But you cannot imagine what an international headquarters is like.
It's like a wasp's nest.
As I said, the Greeks and the Turks were snarling at each other all the time.
The French were always angry at everybody.
Okay, so what are you saying?
Fifteen copies?
Fifteen copies were initiated.
Copy went to the US, copy went to Italy, copy went to France, copy went to UK. And so on.
Fifteen copies were out.
One copy, I think the 14th or the 15th, came right there in the vault at shock.
Reading material for the controllers, the full colonels who ran the 24-hour-a-day war room.
So you weren't the only one that read it?
Oh, no, no, no.
No, we had an American Air Force general by the name of Robert Lee.
Robert Lee read the thing.
I got to know his aide fairly well.
He was a lieutenant colonel.
And inside the war room, we were a select group.
We all had the highest clearance possible.
The enlisted men and the officers mingled closely.
The enlisted men had, the senior enlisted men, most of us were top E7s or E8s and a couple of E9s.
So we mingled closely, and it wasn't on a first-name basis.
There was always respect for rank.
But when you work in a war room like that, and you work closely together over the years, you get to know each other pretty well.
General Lee's aide told me, he said, when the old man read that story, or with that report, the assessment, he says it hit him like a truck, hit him like a ton of bricks.
He told me that the general threw his hat across the desk and he says, do you know what the hell this means?
Everything we've got, everything we've done, everything we've had, doesn't mean a damn thing.
The shock was pretty serious.
Here you have a highly decorated World War II Air Force general who'd been all over the place.
I think he flew B-29s in the Pacific.
He said, if this is all true, if this is real, what we've got, our military, our Air Force, our bombs, our planes, doesn't mean a thing.
The conclusions of the study, after three years, concluded that they had been coming here for a very long time, that they apparently had some involvement in the origins of our species, big shock, to traditional people, particularly Christians and Muslims people.
What was interesting is that apparently there was not a threat involved.
If they were hostile or aggressive, they would have been over a long time ago.
Now, what was their purpose?
Well, the study was not able to conclude that.
It said that the military committee will continue this research.
Which indicated to me that the study in some form had continued that this document in 64 was simply an initial conclusion.
But when they concluded that there were four different extraterrestrial groups involved, and one of them was totally human, looked just like us, that was a big shock to the old traditional mindset of the military.
The admirals and the generals, you know, they couldn't deal with it.
And it also said that there was something to do with the religions, that all the religions of the world...
Well, let me tell you, the study was not that thorough.
It was a beginning for me.
It was the initiative, the initial event that triggered my curiosity.
It launched me on 40 years of research.
And much of what I've concluded It has been a result of the years of study since.
You see, I continued to dig.
I continued to probe.
I continued to turn over rocks.
As I said, I drove my friends up the wall.
Okay, you looked at this material.
You learned a lot.
You weren't the only one.
You've convinced me of that.
Supposedly, I mean, these people that you know also read it, they weren't your close friends, I'm assuming.
Well, they were not my dearest closest friends, no.
Okay.
But were you able to talk to them or have relationships with them outside of like 1967?
Did you ever compare notes?
We formed, back in those days, what we called the Old Boys Network.
And this network was made up of people like myself, Enlisted and commissioned of all services, Air Force, Marines, Army, Navy, as I said, all ranks.
There were others like me who were so engrossed by this and excited by it and what it meant.
You hear a few of them coming out even today, those that are still alive, saying what I saw, what I learned, what I concluded, the reports I studied, the contacts that I knew happened.
Some of them had contacts themselves.
Personal contacts with some of these guys.
Phil Carso was an example.
Are you familiar with who he was?
I knew Phil fairly well.
He and I were speakers at several conferences together.
And in Italy I got to know him pretty well.
Phil shared with me things that had happened to him.
Not just what he had seen, but he had personal contact with an alien at White Sands.
He was in charge of the security of the range one time.
And something came in.
The radar picked it up.
He hopped in his car, went out to see what the hell it was.
There is a UFO sitting on the ground.
There's a guy standing beside it.
And Corso walks over to him and says, you know, what the hell are you, who are you, and where are you from, and why are you here?
And this fellow says, I just came to talk.
And Corso asks him, he says, well, are you with us or are you against us?
Simple military type question, you know, are you with me or are you against me?
And this guy says, neither.
We're neither for you or are we against you?
And he had a conversation with this guy that lasted over an hour.
And the guy says, please turn off your radar.
It disturbs my control or my guidance system so I can leave.
Corso went back to the shop, or back to the headquarters, turned off the radar, and away he went.
I got to know, through the Old Boys Network, Dozens of guys like myself, who were as excited and enthused about the thing as I was.
But they didn't become whistleblowers.
What's the difference?
Some of them did.
Some of them lost their commission, some of them lost their rank.
Can you name somebody?
If they became a whistleblower, do I know them?
No, no.
What happened?
Many of them just retired and died.
Let me explain something.
I was one of the loudest loudmouths.
And this is my nature.
I retired as a command sergeant major.
And that rank gives me the privilege to open my big yap to anybody.
The generals, the admirals, and everybody in between.
You see?
It's a unique kind of rank to have.
I see.
The generals depend on you to tell them the truth.
Whether they like it or not.
And so you learn to tell them the truth.
Well, I turned out to be a big mouth.
I sat on this for...
when did I come out of the closet, so to speak?
It's his term.
Right.
From 1967...
I sat on this until from 67 to 92 or 1?
91?
I believe I came out of the closet in 91.
Okay.
So that's a long time.
Yeah.
I respected my oath, which I swore.
I took an oath to never share anything that I learned, classified nature, while I was on active duty.
And I knew that if I did, I could go to prison for 10 years, $10,000 fine, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, retirement, everything, whatever, forever.
Okay, so you've come out.
What happened to you?
So I came out in 91 at a conference in Tucson, Arizona.
All right.
The result was a monumental aggravation and frustration that the government had continued over all these years to lie to the people.
Not only were they lying to the people, they were ruining lives to keep the lid on this subject.
And I had enough of that.
I had seen good friends of mine, guys who...
they had said something to the wrong person at the wrong way, at the wrong time, and they sent them to Iceland They reassigned them?
They reassigned them to Iceland without their families.
A three-year assignment in Iceland.
That's like the Russians sending you to Siberia.
And we have this in this country, the ability to do that.
There are assignments here and there that, you know, I don't want to use the wrong term and embarrass you, but...
You've heard the term anus mundi?
We have places on the earth where we have military bases.
And if you send you there, everybody says, bye!
We'll probably never hear from you again, you know.
Okay, but that didn't happen to you.
No, it didn't.
And let me tell you something.
The more I learned, the more aggravated I became.
And at 91, I think it was, when I came out, Wendell Stevens is a good friend of mine, member of the Old Boys Network, retired Lieutenant Colonel, Air Force fighter pilot.
Wendell is still alive down in Tucson.
He and I were close for years.
When I retired from the Army, I bought a house in Tucson, and lo and behold, I found I was right across the street from Stevens.
Anyhow, he went to prison.
And it was a trumped-up, fixed political deal.
I always suspected it was because he had spoken out openly on the subject.
Now, there were people who say, no, no, Wendell just made a dumb mistake and he broke the law and off he went.
He spent, what, three years in prison.
Well, there's an example for you.
People say, well, he screwed up.
Well, I never did believe the man screwed up that way.
I think that partly him going to jail was a result of him being very outspoken.
Now, that's a threat that you face.
In 91, I was up to here.
My first marriage was on the rocks for a variety of reasons.
I was in a new job.
I took a job with the Sheriff's Department.
I was actually working for FEMA, Emergency Management Director.
But I was just so frustrated and so aggravated of waiting for the government to tell the people a little something.
And then I was so Frustrated and angered by the fact that not only were they not telling them the truth, they were telling them blatant lies.
And they were also destroying people's lives.
There were people who had contacts, who the government would place in what they called, what is it, the police put you in protective...
Protective custody?
Well, not just custody, they create a whole new life for you.
Oh yeah, okay.
I had seen examples of military families' lives destroyed.
Because the person spoke out?
Well, a pilot would come back from a mission, and before they got to him, he said something to somebody, My God, you should have seen what I saw up there.
There was this damn ship flying along beside me, and there were faces at the windows looking at me.
And this went public.
And this poor son of a bitch, they took him and sent him to Kwajaleen, I believe.
Some tiny little atoll in the middle of the Pacific, where you can't take your family.
And he went off to Kwajalein for God knows how long, away from his family, because he said one thing.
I learned all these things.
It struck me that this was not fair, this was not right, that no government, dammit, has the right to do that to people, and I came out of the closet in a big way.
Not only did I share everything I learned at Shape in the study, the assessment, which in itself is dynamite, but the real dynamite is all the stuff I've learned since.
And I learned, even after I retired from the Army in 76, I became...
I still had a clearance.
I worked for FEMA. I got a, what, equivalent of a master's degree in emergency management at the Institute in Emmitsburg, Maryland.
Okay, but they didn't come get you and send you off to Siberia...
No, they didn't, because once I opened my big yap, I had people come to tell me that, Bob, that's your only defense.
That's the only security you've got.
Keep talking.
Because if they come and shut you up now, it'll be so obvious to the world that you've been closed down, that what you've been talking about must be true.
As I told you, I think I shared with Bill, I was intimidated.
I had phone calls on people who wouldn't identify themselves.
Male voices saying, don't you think you've talked about this just about enough?
Why don't they have time for you to shut up?
Who's this?
Never mind.
Keep your damn mouth shut on this.
Click.
I had a number of those.
I had a little house in Tucson in a cul-de-sac.
I lived there.
I bought it years ago.
I bought it in 60-something.
I'm sitting there one day, reading or whatever, and I hear a very distinctive sound.
I knew a helicopter.
I know the sound of a Huey because I'd been in Vietnam.
And the Huey has a distinctive sound all of its own.
And I thought, you know, is it passing over?
And it kept and the damn thing was sitting over my house.
So I go out the door into the driveway and I look up and there's this totally black Huey type helicopter, not more than a hundred feet above my house, violating FAA rules, you know, totally violating the rules, but the damn thing was sitting up there and there was not a marking on it, not one mark on it, It was totally black and that was a violation of FAA, you know.
Now these guys violate the law all the time.
And I stood out there and I thought, who the hell are you?
And I looked up and studied it and there was this big, circular, glassy apparatus on the bottom of this thing.
It was part of the aircraft.
And I concluded later that it was probably one of those 360 degree windows.
And there were probably guys sitting in there looking at me down through this glass.
But it was black, totally black.
The glass was black.
The thing was sitting up there and just kind of like...
What are you going to do about it?
And I shook my fist, pointed my finger, mouthed a couple of profanities.
Called him a number of names.
I know you, you son of a bitch.
I know who you are and I know what you're doing.
Okay.
And about the time I really am giving them hell, I'm sure they thought, all right, we've got his attention.
Off it went.
First of all, totally black, no markings, violation.
Hovering over a private residence, a violation.
You know, they don't care.
It was an intimidation.
And this was right after I had went public at this big conference in Tucson.
Okay, so tell me, you have friends at high places?
Because I know you've spent some time in Washington.
Who's protecting you?
Is it human?
Is it extraterrestrial?
Let me tell you what I think.
And this is just my two cents.
I think that after I came out publicly with a big mouth and spoke and began to speak regularly at that time, from 91 on, I traveled the world.
Good God, I was invited.
I've been in 18, 15, 18 countries.
I think going public and being out in the open probably was what saved me.
Other than the phone calls and the black Huey and all of the rest of it, you know, I've had people come up to me at conferences, guys, who would not introduce themselves and would...
Suits, you know what the term suits means?
Sure.
Three piece with vest?
Typical government agency type thing.
You've been speaking out pretty bluntly about this.
Why are you doing this?
Well, who are you?
Well, never mind.
Why are you doing this?
Well, first of all, the truth has to be told.
Oh, yeah?
You think you know the truth?
And I think, well, I know some of it.
How's that?
As a matter of fact, I know quite a bit of it.
That's even better.
And, you know, I've had those happen, too, over the years.
I had an interesting time.
I spoke at Leeds at a conference.
All right.
All right.
Got a call from a guy who identified himself as Mr.
Sweeting.
I, you know, typical UK name, I guess, Mr.
Sweeting.
And we found out Tony Dodd checked the phone number from Mr.
Sweeting, who called me and said it was imperative that he speak to me before I went on.
And Tony and I both got off, got in the phone booth together, crammed in here, and Tony's listening as I'm talking to Mr.
Sweeting, and he says, it's imperative, Mr.
Dean, that I speak to you before you go on.
What are you going to say?
And I said, well, Mr.
Sweeting, if you're local, why don't you come to the conference and listen?
Well, no, I can't do that.
I just wanted to know what you plan to say.
And I said, I plan to say a hell of a lot.
And Tony checked the number.
And guess where?
There's an enormous U.S. National Security Agency facility in Yorkshire called Menwith Hill.
I've driven by it.
Tony took me by several times.
Mr.
Sweeting's number was Menwith Hill.
So that's it?
Was that the gist of your conversation?
Well, the gist of the conversation was, Mr.
Sweeting would not say anything to me about who he was and why he wanted to talk to me.
And I told him I ain't going to share nothing with him over the phone.
If he wants to talk to me, come to the conference.
And I'd be delighted to talk to him face to face.
Well, on that issue, have you had whistleblowers, people come out from the closet and share stuff with you?
Oh, God, yes!
To say that you're a whistleblower?
Oh, hell yes!
I've had people come up to me and say, you know, I've been wanting to share this, Dean.
And I think I can share with you, because you won't take my name and address and phone number and turn me in, but this happened to me, and I know that happened to you, and, you know, we've all been members of this, what we call the Old Boys Network.
We wanted to get it out.
We wanted to get it out honestly, upfront, and democratically, damn it.
So you've convinced me that you're out there.
Okay.
I'm still not buying it completely, because I... Do you think that, you know, have you had health problems?
Have you had, you know, mind control?
And if not, then I have to ask you again.
Who's protecting you?
Well, let me say this about that.
Sounds like Nixon.
I have shared this with people several times because they've asked me the same question.
And after I became notorious, I suppose is the best word, where I have spoken bluntly, regularly, all over the damn planet and all over the United States, to a considerable amount of positive response from people.
Not only military thanking me for going public, and I've got a number of old, close, warm friends that retired, that have, to a level of some degree,
a good friend in Roswell, retired army sergeant, who after he went public, his son was killed By a hit and run.
And they always concluded that it was the result of his going public.
Clifford Stone.
Clifford.
Lost his boy.
We interviewed him.
Clifford is a very close friend.
And his boy was killed right after he had published his book.
Now you say, oh, coincidence.
Bullshit.
I've seen a lot of coincidence in my time and I don't believe in it.
I don't believe there is such a thing as coincidence in everybody's life.
There are no coincidences.
It's all laid out.
Clifford is like me now.
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