"Greatest Fight In NBA History" - Metta World Peace OPENS UP On Palace Brawl, Breaking Jordan’s Ribs
NBA champion Metta World Peace (Ron Artest) joins Patrick Bet-David for a powerful sit-down on his Lakers legacy, defending Kobe, MJ, and LeBron, the Malice at the Palace, his Knicks coaching dream, and how American basketball lost its edge.
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ABOUT US:
Patrick Bet-David is the founder and CEO of Valuetainment Media. He is the author of the #1 Wall Street Journal Bestseller “Your Next Five Moves” (Simon & Schuster) and a father of 2 boys and 2 girls. He currently resides in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.
Tick 6 senior from La Salle Academy in New York City.
He's headed to St. John's.
I remember being at the game.
Kobe goes 6-4-24.
He's not having a good game.
Second half starts.
And then all of a sudden he starts passing it to Ryan.
You hit that 1-3.
Our test.
That's a three.
Fire!
Talk about a game.
Game seven against the Celtics, right?
I mean, that was sick.
It was incredible.
I mean, he passed me the ball.
And he passed me the ball.
Kobe passed me the ball.
You've guarded Kobe.
You've guarded LeBron.
And you've guarded Michael.
How different are they?
You know, Kobe's definitely more similar to MJ, but I think LeBron, he brought something totally different to the table.
Malice at the Pals.
They never allowed glass drinks because of that game.
Alcohol stops in the fourth corner.
I think now it stops in the fourth quarter.
I don't even think the foul was that big of a foul, but just wasn't that big of a foul.
But I know what happened.
Like, I've never given up free layups.
Is there anything that maybe he got an award that you didn't get?
Oh, you gotta be.
I think the defensive players are like, yeah, this is legacy right here.
So this is what I think it is.
I am done.
That was probably the worst day of my life.
You saying you were already in therapy prior to that fight?
I had anger management problems, as we all know.
So we could do a whole stand-up show on this honestly.
Brought to you by Value Tamer.
Did you ever think you would make it?
I feel on something second chase sweetie pictures.
Adam, what's your point?
The future looks bright.
Handshake is better than anything I ever saw.
right here you are one of one my son's right I don't think I've ever said this before So we got a special podcast here, man.
We got the one and only Metal World piece in the house.
I had to interview you.
I'm like, hey, I want to do a podcast.
And then you responded back.
And then, you know, now we're sitting here together.
Couldn't believe it.
I mean, I never met you before.
I've watched your podcast.
I've watched a lot of them.
I'm not going to say all of them, but definitely a lot of them.
I just came back from the U.S. and Saudi investment firm where I'm typically the only athlete in these rooms when I go out to these places.
You know, it was super tight security.
So I'm thinking, I said, I wonder if he saw, I know you're a Republican.
I know about you.
And so I said, man, I wonder if he saw me with some of his friends.
Like, why did he, is he interested in the U.S. Saudi investment firm?
You thought that was the reason.
Yeah, I thought you saw it because literally when I got home, then I got your DM.
So I didn't know why.
He was like, yeah, Laker fan.
I said, oh, he's a Laker fan.
And then I was like, after your interview with Terrence, I DM'd Terry.
That was the best interview I've seen in my life.
That's my favorite interview I've ever seen, if I'm not mistaken.
Terrence Howard.
The Terrence Howard interview was incredible.
And then I DM'd Terrence.
I said, I need to take, I'm telling my family, I need to take you to lunch.
Like, he, I'm not going to say he changed my life, but he added a few things.
He's showing you the world.
He is so interesting.
And I think the word misunderstood is very good for him, but he is so interesting.
I would say, till today, I'm registering independent.
Of course, I've been on Trump supporter for a few years.
But when, you know, it's funny when I DM'd you, I'm having a conversation.
Your name comes up.
I'm like, dude, like, you know, I remember being at the game, game seven.
Okay.
Oh, wow.
So I'm at the game.
I take my password, row 18.
We're there.
Kobe goes 6-424.
He's not having a good game.
This is the only game I've gone where in the first half, we're sitting there.
Me and Dudley look at each other.
We're not even getting up.
The level of anxiety is so high.
I said, do you want to grab?
He says, I don't want nothing.
I can't even move.
We sit still, and then second half starts, and then Kobe's just nothing.
And then all of a sudden, he starts passing it to Rock, you know, and then, you know, he's doing his thing.
And then you hit that one, three, and then the game.
I mean, talk about a game, game seven against the Celtics, right?
I mean, that was sick.
It was incredible.
I mean, Derek Fisher changed the game.
So Derek Fisher, he was down 13 in the third quarter.
So now, you know, game seven at home, down 13.
We're looking at the shot clock.
This is my first time in the finals.
And I'm just like, okay, there's doubt creeping in because it's like, you know, I've never been here before.
And Derek Fisher says, hey, guys, pick your head up.
He says, where would you rather be right now?
He comes to the seat, opens his arms.
He says, down 13 in a game seven at home.
Where would you rather be?
And then that.
Did he really say this?
Yeah.
Did he say that halftime in the locker room?
No, when did he say that?
In the third quarter, because we was on the bench.
We was down.
It was a timeout.
It was getting closer to the end.
So he said that maybe at the six minute mark in the third quarter.
Is this Phil is letting Derek speak or Derek is just jumping in and saying this?
So typically when they call a timeout, the coaches go to the free throw line, extend it.
Right.
And then the players go to the bench first.
So you got like maybe 20, 30 seconds.
Oh, shit, 20, 30 seconds.
For a leader to come in there.
And then Derek, he is such a leader.
Because I didn't believe in myself at that moment in time.
I believed in my heart, but I didn't know what's going to happen because we're 13 points against the Celtics.
That's devastating.
But we just kept inching away.
We pulled it out.
We just wore him out.
And then second half, when you're coming out, like, what happened?
Because you played so loose.
You were just like, give me the ball.
I want to, I want to.
And that's not the profile, though.
That's Kobe's job.
That's, you know, Powell's job.
And then you all of a sudden became the aggressor.
Well, you know, interesting.
Well, when I played until I got with the Lakers, I was a go-to guy.
I was always the go-to guy.
I mean, the year before that, I averaged 25 against.
I remember that.
I remember that.
You know, if you look at Yellowstone, that's the Rockman.
I remember that.
So from that perspective, I've been in this situation for my whole life.
But when you get with Kobe, you become a role player.
So I became a role player in my prime.
So imagine right now today, if you're a role player in your prime, you know how much money you leave on the table by saying, instead of averaging 20, I'm going to average $6 million.
Why'd you do it?
Cost you some money, right?
Is it fair to say it costs you.
Well, going to the Lakers, I was worth more than $6 million a year.
For sure.
You know what I mean?
Especially after you came off of 24 and a half games to see points a game.
Definitely worth more than so.
I had to just deal with it.
It was hard.
It was one of the hardest things I've had to deal with.
That game you played against Kobe, where he's going like this, you know what I'm saying?
He's going like this.
He's going like this.
And you're telling the referee, dude, he hit me, elbowed me, right?
You know which one I'm talking about.
Yeah, yeah.
I watched Kobe go after guys and recruit the guys that were not afraid of him, right?
You, Barnes, a couple other guys that he wanted to go.
Jordan did this as well with Rodman and a few other guys that he went after.
Did he ever call you, try to recruit you or no?
No, he actually didn't, you know, because Kobe's, he's probably going to send his soldiers, which is the Lakers organization.
The Lakers called me at 12.01.
So on June 30th.
So that's when the free agency opened.
So I did not expect that call at 12.01.
I was in LA at the SLS hotel, about to go out with my friends.
I get a call.
We pull over.
And then my agent, David Bauman, says, the Lakers want to speak to you.
Part of my French, but my first reaction was, for fucking what?
Because I'm like, they just beat us.
Like, one, I don't ever think I'm going to play for the Lakers.
Two, I'm super competitive.
And I'm like, I don't want to speak to the Lakers.
Yeah.
He said, they want you on their team.
So then I'm like, I was still a little bit defensive.
But then I was like, hold on one second.
Did he just say?
So now all the stuff is going on in my head.
I meet with Dr. Buss the next morning.
And he was like, you know, I'm sorry, I'm not going to be able to pay you what you're worth.
But we really want you on this team.
Straight up, he says that opening line.
Yep, that's his open line.
And I said, damn, Dr. Buss, Phil Jackson, Kobe Bryant.
I love Kobe Bryant.
I love Kobe.
But did you love him then when you're like when you're playing against him?
No, not when I'm playing against him.
No, when I'm playing against him, I don't like R.I.P. Kobe Bryant.
When I'm playing against him, no.
But when I'm not playing against Kobe, I love Kobe.
You know?
Totally.
I fully understand.
Yeah, I love Kobe.
So he tells you, he says, so I can't pay what you're worth.
And he's the one negotiating the deal.
Who else is Mitch Cup check in the room?
Just me and Buss.
Nobody else is in the room.
Nobody.
How long was that meeting?
We went to the W Hotel.
We sat at the bar in the Westwood W Hotel, sat at the bar.
We didn't drink any alcohol.
I might have ordered an avocado toast.
And that was it.
We just talked.
Maybe we didn't even order anything.
We talked, and that was it.
I was like, yep, I said, just send me the contract.
I'll just sign it.
And he told you the number then?
Did he kind of say that?
Yeah, he said only the mid, mid-level.
Mid-level exception.
Yeah, mid-level exception.
Which usually is five, six million.
I mean, you could have been worth $10, $20 million, whatever the contracts were for the next year.
At that time, it was $12, $15.
You know, being a number one guy in the playoff, you know, that's like the 12 to 15.
So you're leaving at least 10, 20 million bucks on the team.
I left a lot of money on the table.
Worth it, though, till today.
It's worth it.
It's definitely worth it for sure because I learned so much about myself.
I learned that I could overcome adversity.
You know, you're thinking about your check.
Oh, not only the money, that's one piece, but the other piece is you're only averaging 6.9 points.
You see, your ego.
That's going from where you were in your prime.
And keep in mind, every time Kobe didn't play, in my first stint with the Lakers, I was averaging 18.9.
I had to tally it up myself because I had to reassure that I was still pretty good.
I was having doubt.
You know, when you're not shooting the ball year after year after year, you're just a role player in the corner.
And when Kobe didn't play, like, you'll see a game with the Spurs, it was like Kawhi and whoever else is on that team.
You'll see me playing very well at 26.
So I can still play, but when Kobe comes back, now exactly.
Yeah, you get two shots, maybe four, maybe five.
What was your relationship?
Because I mean, the one thing that's very interesting with you is, you know, there's only a few.
Name, stars that people know.
You're not a regular player.
You were 0-4 defensive player of the year, right?
You're, you know, you got 19 years you played in the NBA, you know, with six teams, and you're going to go down as arguably one of the greatest defenders of all time, you know, perimeter defense.
You were just, you were ridiculous.
And playing against you was annoying, right?
I bet guys probably didn't want to go up against you.
Yeah, definitely not.
But you defended.
You played.
You defended against Michael, against Kobe, and against LeBron, right?
You played defense.
That's not a lot of people that can say that.
There's a lot of people that did, but not defending them, right?
Where you got defending all three of them.
So Kobe has a teammate at that time when you come in.
Is he lifting you up?
Is he punking you?
Is he talking shit?
Is he saying, let's go have dinner?
Is he asking your house family?
How's everything?
What is his mentality like?
Is he saying, hey, we whooped your ass, now you're here?
You know, you came from the Rockets here.
What is he telling you now that you're his teammate?
Let's have a good practice.
Let's get ready to win the championship.
It's not a lot of banter going back and forth with Kobe.
You know, we didn't have a relationship, and Kobe is very aware.
He got to know, I can't wait to get to practice because he knows me.
He knows I got that fire.
That's why he brought me.
He has to know that I'm bringing it the first possession of our first practice.
So our first practice, I'm sure he couldn't wait.
And I couldn't wait.
Now I got him, and he got me every day for two hours or three hours in training camp.
So the first practice, you know, we're going against each other.
We're not on a starting group yet.
So, you know, we couldn't wait.
Now, he played very well.
Well, I must say he played very well, but I was also very physical, if that makes sense.
I was on him.
Now, he scored, but it was definitely something to watch.
Was there friction like in practice with the two of you or no?
For sure.
But was there friction?
Like, you know, you hear stories about Michael and Steve Kerr.
No.
That kind of friction or no, or Samaki Walker.
I think Walker and Kobe had an issue one time on the bus.
I don't know if you've heard that story.
No, I didn't hear it.
Nothing like that.
It was nothing like we were about to fight, but it was definitely very aggressive.
It was very aggressive.
We did have one incident where Kobe's playing very well.
He was getting under my skin.
Phil Jackson was getting under my skin.
And then I was telling the team, I said, you know, last year, if Yao Ming didn't break his foot, I said, we would have beat all of y'all, right?
And then Phil was like, calm down, Ronnie.
And I'm like, we not calming down until I say we calm.
That's all I would just disrupt.
You're saying this to Philip.
But Phil can take heat.
Because Phil give heat, by the way.
Phil gives heat.
And he can take it.
One of the few coaches that can take it.
A lot of coaches can't take what Phil could take.
So you're saying this.
So he says, calm down, Ronnie.
What is Kobe saying?
Kobe's just watching.
So I think what was happening too, Kobe wanted, I think I came to practice one day, but I wasn't.
What year is this?
This is 2010.
I want to know who the roster is.
Keep going.
I'm listening.
Yeah, so I think I came to practice, but maybe I wasn't as intense.
And I think Kobe wanted to push my button.
So, because Kobe, I seen him snickering in the back when I was going at Phil.
And he was like.
So I think Kobe was like actually.
Enjoying the process.
Yeah, enjoying the process.
But that was the only day where we addressed, I just came from the Rockets and now I'm here.
We never talked about that.
They beat us, but we was the only team to take him in seven.
They went through everybody that year.
You know, the championship game was the Rockets versus the Lakers, basically, that year.
Yeah, I mean, listen, if it was a different story, yeah.
So you're saying this to Phil.
You're saying Phil also knows how to bring the heat.
Yeah, Phil brings the heat.
I talked to Shaq one time where, you know, Shaq and Kobe, I'm asking both of them about the relationship with Phil.
And there's a story once I read about the fact that Shaq sat both of them down and said, you guys think you guys got a big ego?
I got a bigger ego than both of you guys have combined, right?
Saying something like that.
Now, whether that happened or not, who knows?
What was different about his style of leadership than other coaches you had?
You know, Phil, I mean, he's an energy guy.
He's a Buddhist.
He's Zen master.
He's an energy guy.
And I think a lot of the times he's just nurturing your energy.
He's centering your energy.
You know, he has a plate, a triangle, but the triangle is nothing but a set.
The triangle is nothing but staying in your spot.
And he's on, you see, he's just sitting there the whole time.
Other coaches like, hey, go here, go here, go here.
So Phil's letting you get out of your own issues.
He's letting you solve your own problems.
Yeah, he wasn't the guy that would say, time out, let's go.
Boom, boom.
No.
And it would say, you'd watch the game.
And the opposition would score six points back to back to back.
Yeah.
And you would hear, what's his name?
The old guy, Chick Hearn, you know, or whoever it was, Stu Lance, because I used to live in LA.
So I would literally watch broadcasters, yeah.
Color commentation.
And it would say, Phil is not even getting up.
Let's just sit there and just watch him.
Is he like, is he even thinking about it?
He would let you fail.
Yes.
He'll sit there.
And you know what?
And if you lost by 30, you go into the locker room and we'll go back to practice.
But he's kind of putting that accountability on you, which is really unique.
But how would he do it?
What do you say here?
So, how do you would he go in the locker room and say, so how do you guys feel about the loss?
So what do you think happened?
Or was it kind of like, all right, guys, we'll see our practice tomorrow.
What was I'm not going to say he was like babying us, but he definitely was pointing out the mistakes, but he was always trying to strengthen our center.
How do we do that?
So meditate, turn off all the lights, bring sage in the locker room, you know, sent to breathe together.
You know, sit up straight in your chair, close your eyes, relax your jaws, relax your.
So he was like always empowering you.
He wasn't beating you down.
With the exception of he'll say little things to get under, he has something for everybody where he can get under your skin.
Like what?
Like, give me an example.
He called me cement feet.
When he called me cement feet, that made me upset.
Cement feet?
Yeah, he used to call.
I had these big shoes.
I had a deal with another company.
Not a Nike, not in the D's.
I had another company, and they were big, but I did it because it was a deal.
So I just signed a contract with the shoes.
And yeah, it wasn't the greatest looking shoe.
You know, Kobe's playing at Nikes.
I'm playing in these big blocks.
Which one is it?
The ones in the championship.
I got him on in the final.
So the one you won in, you wore the cement feet in game seven.
Cement feet was definitely in game seven for sure.
Oh, shit.
It's not these ones.
These are some other ones I had throughout the years.
When's the last time?
Oh, there they go, right there.
That's the one.
Who was the shoe company?
It was a company out of China called Peak.
So they let me design my own shoe.
I couldn't believe they didn't let me design my own shoe, but it's another story.
So if he called you Cement Feet, what did he call the other guys?
Yeah, I forget what he had for the other guy.
He had something for Kobe too.
Really?
100%.
So would he try, would he get under Kobe's skin or he couldn't get under Kobe's skin?
Kobe, he'll leave him on the bench a little longer.
You know?
Like, he didn't have to say anything.
It was like, this is your punishment.
Yeah.
An extra 30 seconds, minute on the bench.
I don't know why he would do it.
But, you know, Kobe's like, Kobe looking down at Phil with that, you know, that laser eyes.
That face, you know, that, that, his mouth.
This part turned to a bear, like a bear.
Mamba.
This part turned to the mamba, and Phil's just like, you know, you're going to stay there.
I know you're supposed to check it now, but we're going to give you three more minutes over there.
And that Kobe be pissed.
What happened with Sasha Wijak?
Was there a fight between him and Kobe?
Like, one thing.
Yeah, definitely.
Because Kobe was saying something and he's elbowing him, and Sasha's got.
I've seen that clip.
I don't know where that clip is.
Yeah, Sasha, because Sasha is a strong person.
Like, that whole team was full of dogs.
It reminded me of the Indiana team.
So everybody on that team was pretty much psycho.
Like Sasha, Bynum, me.
You know, Pal's a nice guy, but Pal can get really aggressive and into it.
You can see it in his face.
You know, obviously, Lamar and Josh Powell, people that you don't see a lot.
Oh, wow.
Shannon Brown.
That's right.
Shannon Brown.
Louis Brown.
Fisher.
Fisher's different.
Fisher's not going to be Ry Rod, but Fisher's not playing no games, you know.
He's a little bit different.
So Sasha, you say something to Sasha, he's bringing it.
He's coming right back at you.
He don't care who it is.
You know, Sasha's got a lot of heart.
Adam Morrison.
Adam Morrison's probably the most.
Adam Morrison Gonzaga.
The most psycho, probably.
Really?
Seriously?
He ain't taking no game.
Adam Morrison's not playing any games.
Seriously.
Oh, 100%.
Adam Morrison not playing no game.
Are you joking?
Nah, Adam is actually, he should have, if it wasn't for those injuries, he was so good in practice.
But you had me, you had Kobe.
With his injuries, if he doesn't get injured, you're talking about all-star multiple times.
No shit.
Wow.
Incredible.
Yeah, you hear stories.
He's on the, I mean, you've seen him in Colorado.
He's college player of the year.
I remember.
Remember, he was insane and he was a little bit more.
He was really good.
I wanted to know one thing about Phil.
When's the last time you interacted or even saw Phil Jackson?
I was on the phone with Phil last year when I went to go visit Carlisle, Indiana Pacers.
Rick Carlisle, yeah.
And he had Phil on the phone.
That's the last time I spoke to Phil.
And I said, hey, Phil.
But I would also call Phil when I needed coaching advice because I'm a coach.
So when I was coaching my high school girls or my college girls, I would call Phil and just ask him about different things.
And if I'm thinking about it the right way.
So let me ask you this story about you being drafted by the Bulls.
If it wasn't for something else, you would have been drafted by the Knicks.
And now you've been wanting the Knicks coaching job since 2019.
I've been wanting to be a Knicks since 1996 in high school.
And then 1999, I thought I would be a Knick.
I love New York.
Even though, you know, I'm a Pacer guy also.
I love the Pacers.
And the Lakers too.
The Lakers turned my, the Lakers, Cementon, cementing my legacy.
The Sacramento Kings regained my career.
I went to Sacramento after Indiana.
Sacramento, they got my career back.
I was done, depressed.
Mentally, I was done.
So, you know, I had different journeys with everybody.
And the Pacers, we just had such great rapport.
Like, we was headed in the right direction.
You know, so I'm probably tightest, closest with the Pacers and Lakers, probably Pacers and Lakers.
I love Mr. Dolan.
I don't have a relationship with Mr. Dolan, but the Knicks, I'm from New York City.
St. John's.
Right.
So St. John's, you know, Queens.
So for sure, but I want to be a Knick.
I was a Knick for one year.
You know, thank you to Mr. Dolan and Grant Grunfield and whoever else was there.
They're not there anymore.
And yeah, so the Knicks is extremely, it's extremely important to me.
Have you guys had a conversation about the coaching job or no?
No, because you got to think about it.
When I was I coached at Cal State LA, I coached Division II women's basketball for the last seven years.
We're turning that program around.
You know, I was at a coffee shop in the Vancouver Islands when we all found out that Tibbs got fired.
So when I saw that.
I was shocked.
I don't know if you were shocked.
I was shocked.
I wasn't shocked.
I was waiting to put in the phone call.
I couldn't wait to send out that I wanted a job because my mind didn't have time to be shocked, you know, or surprised or anything.
I was like, oh, this is available now.
You got to understand, when someone gets fired, the agents, the general managers, they're already working.
So somebody's already being hired.
And this has happened to me all the time.
I can't get opportunities because I'm not in the know.
I don't have an agent.
And I don't necessarily try to fit in circles.
I just like to work.
So I don't have circles.
So that's why I said I'm going to send this tweet out.
And I did it within like two minutes.
And then it kind of went viral.
Now, I'm still not in the system, if that makes sense.
So you haven't interviewed yet?
I'm not interviewed.
But they know you want the job.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
So what would you, like, if let's just say you were there, okay?
You got a very young team.
Okay.
They went to the Eastern Conference Finals twice, right?
The guy's a stud.
He's an underestimated guy, Bronson, where, you know, since the day he came out, is he a Villanova?
Who did he put in?
Brunson went to Villanova.
Half that team went to Villanova.
That's right.
So how would you coach that team differently?
You know, so for one, I'm not going to say differently because I'm not going to compare myself to Tibbs.
You know, maybe some of the things are the same, but I know how I want to win.
I know how I want to win.
And I'm not going to give away everything because I, one, if I do get the Knicks job, which would be a blessing, it would need to be a Hail Mary, like a Knick football.
First time ever.
You never seen a Knicks football?
It needed to be a Hail Mary for me to get this position.
You know, I saw a couple of things.
Game one, that was the Knicks game.
Halliburton was incredible.
He's the Michael Jordan of these playoffs.
You know, they end up playing.
That's a big statement right there.
He is.
Of these playoffs this year, he's the Michael Jordan.
Wow.
We've never seen this.
Name a time you've seen these many game winners.
Game Morning rat the heart of the Knicks.
Yeah, I mean, that one shot he made.
Three.
Yeah.
Or four.
Who is four?
Yeah, he's playing.
Okay, so for you, between Pacers and Knicks, who's your heart?
Who has your heart?
It's different.
It's about even when they play against each other in the playoffs, I typically don't go to those games because the Pacers, you know, is where I played the best.
I had history with the fans.
The fans had my back.
Organization had my back, you know, through all the rough times.
With New York, I'm a protector of New York City basketball.
I love New York.
So it's almost like an even playing field.
Would you take an assistant job before you eventually have a coaching?
Like a head coach?
Like, would you entertain assistant?
Well, right now, since the Nick head coaching job is on the table, I don't want to put assistant in the air.
I got you.
I want to keep it focused on head coaching because you got to think about it.
People can say, this coach is prepared.
This coach is prepared.
Let's not take any shots at the coaches.
But everybody had their chance to bring the Knicks to the promised land.
Everybody had their chance.
At some point in time, somebody got to step up and actually bring the Knicks to the promised land.
You know what it reminds me of?
You know the coach of the Detroit Lions?
The coach of the Detroit Lions.
Dan Campbell.
Yeah, there's something about it.
There's something about the guy that's emotional.
I want to know, is Dan Campbell from Detroit?
Can you see if he's from?
No, he's from Texas.
Interesting, because he coaches the Lions as if he's from Detroit.
Nice.
Did he ever play for the Lions?
Who did he play for?
Okay, head coach, yeah, but who did he play for?
I think he played as well.
He did.
Okay.
So there you go.
There is heart.
There is that affinity for the organization because when it comes down to Knicks, I wonder what it's like to get a guy there that's coaching who is a New York guy, who is doing what he's doing.
Going back to what we're talking about with Kobe, you've played with Kobe.
You've guarded Kobe.
You've guarded LeBron and you've guarded Michael.
Now, Michael, you guarded him when he was, I think, with the Western Zatien.
So it's not really, you can't really compare.
I looked at the numbers.
I actually pulled it up to see what they average when you play defense against them.
So Michael, you played five games against them.
I don't know if you know these stats.
I never know.
Yeah, I know he played it.
So you played five, you guarded him five.
You played against him five times.
Okay.
22.4 games, 22.4 points a game, six rebounds, 2.6 assists.
This is against you.
Kobe, you played against 20 times, 27.6, 5.7 rebounds, 6-1 assists.
What about the field goal percentage?
They have it?
I can pull that up as well.
And then LeBron, 26-9, 6.7, 6-point.
Matter of fact, I'm going to pull that up because it's interesting to know that as well.
What was a different style playing up against MJ?
He was in his mid to late 30s.
Kobe, LeBron, how different are they guarding them?
They're all different.
Kobe's definitely more similar to MJ, but I think MJ get the upper hand because MJ's mid-range is incredible.
He's very strong.
He could turn left, turn right.
Once he releases, it's going in.
Kobe's a little bit different, a little bit more agile than MJ, and LeBron's more, he's stronger.
He's more of a team player.
Even though Jordan did average a triple-double, I think, in one of these playoff series, and he did have times where he would have 13 assists.
But I think LeBron, he was physical.
He seized the floor, and he brought something totally different to the table than what a Kobe would bring or Michael.
They all so different.
But if I had to give one guy the edge, it'd be Michael.
Because of what?
Because of mid-range?
He's really efficient.
If you see his movement, it's all like everything's fundamentally sound.
He's quick.
He's strong.
He's athletic.
He can shoot.
You know, yeah, so I would probably have to give it to Michael.
Is it true the story I heard about when you play pickup with Michael, you broke two of his ribs?
Yeah.
How did that happen?
You see that picture you just saw of me and Mike?
Look at this picture.
You see that one right there?
I love that.
So you see, that's in the game.
Look at Mike.
How old are you on this picture, bro?
I'm 19 or 20.
That's how me and Mike played every day in the summertime.
Wow.
We were just, we were picking up from the summertime right there.
And that picture, when I saw that picture, I said, wow, that's what, because people didn't get a chance to see.
Look at Mike Arms.
What am I doing?
What is Mike doing?
So whose foul is this?
Whose foul?
This is your foul.
Why would you say this is my foul?
You know, yours on his face.
His arm is below you.
You're fouling him.
But look, what is his arms doing?
He's putting his arms into you to grab onto you.
Okay.
Yeah.
This is the same call where Mike in the summertime when I broke his ribs by mistake, he got called the offensive foul.
On this play?
So keep the same exact play.
So keep in mind.
So check it out.
Watch this.
Which is really interesting.
I love Mike, by the way.
I changed my number to 23 because of Mike.
I love Mike, right?
But so Mike, as Mike runs in the summertime, he's bringing referees.
So Mike has three referees in his run.
He's bringing the referees.
Yes, everyone.
That's how you win a game.
It free throws everything and Mike runs.
Do they favor him because he's paying them or not really?
They better.
I don't know if they was favoring him as much, honestly.
I think it was even for everybody.
Yeah, that's cool.
Yeah, it was pretty good.
Yeah, it was even.
So you see my right arm?
Yeah.
On the other side.
On the back?
On the back side.
So because Mike is so strong, and the reason I'm like that, because he got these little tricks.
The thing with Mike is this.
If you let him catch it, that's where you die.
So you can't let him catch it.
Interesting.
Because once he catches it, I don't care who you are.
You done.
Right.
So as he was holding me, I took my right arm in the summertime and I moved his bottom arm out the way.
And then I cracked him on the other side.
But I didn't throw it at him.
I was just trying to swing and move him out the way.
And I just think he didn't realize how strong I was.
But he called me after that because in the media, Sam, you know, people reported that they said I punched Michael in the Chicago Tribune.
Ronald Tess punches Michael Jordan in a run.
Seriously, Chicago Tribune said that.
Yeah.
What did he call you and say?
Well, he said, I was depressed for two days.
I'm like, this news just went out.
Yeah.
That I punched somebody.
I played for the Bulls.
So I was depressed and I didn't go to practice.
I'm at the summertime practices, but then Michael called me and said, it's okay.
We were just playing hard.
I want you to come back.
So Michael said, Michael, you see, look at that.
Who foul is that?
Well, he's on defense.
He's going to get the foul.
Whose foul is that?
Look at all these pictures with me.
That's why I love Mike Mike.
You're young here.
I think Mike, Mike said in the paper one time that I was one of his favorite players or defenders.
And I came out and said it.
And then Barkley was like, Mike didn't say that.
Why would Michael Jordan say that Ronald Tess is one of his favorite players?
Look at that one.
This is looking at me and Mike.
That is insane.
You see the intensity?
You see, that's what people.
That's what, you know what I mean?
That's why Mike, I'm like, Charles, why would I make that up?
Look how I play against Michael.
I ain't kissing Michael Jordan's behind.
I'm going at Michael.
Was he talking?
Was he like out of all three, who's chirping the most?
Well, nobody talks to me.
Are you being serious?
I'm serious.
Tell me why.
I've never heard anybody talk to me.
Wait a minute.
Are you being serious?
With the exception of, I've never heard Mike talk trash to me.
I heard him talk trash to other people.
Kobe, when I talked to Kobe, that's when we was going, we had a little banter back and forth.
But I've never seen Kobe.
Kobe, I never heard Kobe talk to me or even like a LeBron.
I never know, you know, because you risk me turning up.
They don't want that smoke, is what you're saying.
But Paul Pierce, on the other hand, okay, the truth, he initiates it.
Well, I mean, listen, part of it is, you know, the Rob, can you pull up the clip of you?
You pull his pants down, you pull this shorts out in the middle of the game, in the middle of a game.
What do they call it?
They have a name for this.
Pants.
You pants down.
Right?
Is this it?
Yeah, let's watch this year.
Yeah, because look at this.
Look at Ron.
Okay, no, no, you got to go back.
You got because you missed it.
Go back a little bit.
Watch this.
But respect to Paul Pierce here.
He gets the ball.
I know.
He made away three on you.
So, what was that all about?
Well, he was scoring so much, I couldn't stop him this game.
And he couldn't stop me, by the way.
I had a lot of points too.
So I was trying to slow him down.
I was literally trying to slow him down, but you know, Paul was like, yeah, he didn't care.
Before we move on from the MJ LeBron-Kobe conversation, I have one question for you.
I mean, not many people can say that you've guarded the three best offensive players, three best athletes that have ever played the game.
Let's put Michael Jordan, the GOAT, aside.
You're starting a team.
You're the manager.
You're the coach.
Right.
You can either draft Kobe in his prime or LeBron in his prime.
You get the first pick.
In the prime?
Prime time.
LeBron, primetime Kobe.
You get the first pick.
Ooh.
Primetime, LeBron.
I'll probably go with Kobe because I think he could take over a game.
But LeBron's the number one scorer ever.
That's really hard.
You sound conflicted here.
I feel like your heart says Kobe, but your mind's saying LeBron.
Yeah, sometimes I do pick LeBron sometimes.
Sometimes I'll pick LeBron, like, all right, that's my guy.
Some days I'll pick Kobe, but then also, what gets in the way of my GOAT is Tim Duncan.
They forget Tim's arguably better than those guys.
But let's not bring Tim in the conversation.
You get your first pick.
Who are you taking?
That's well, first pick.
That's crazy.
In their primes?
Yeah, you get the first pick.
LeBron brought a team.
How many teams did LeBron bring to the finals with like three?
No.
No, no, a lot.
With Mo Williams.
That's what he said.
Not that Mo Williams or Mo Williams having 16 points, but it wasn't like he had.
I see the point you're making.
You know what I mean?
So then at that, from that perspective, he leans towards the Eastern Conference.
And there was a moment where in the Eastern Conference, you didn't have a lot of stuff going on.
He's never been to the finals or even with the Lakers, but yeah, it's true.
The Western Conference is a little tougher.
I mean, you probably would lean towards LeBron sometimes.
You would pick a LeBron.
You would lean towards a LeBron.
So tell me about this.
Duncan, when you're saying, like, Duncan was better than all of those guys.
Duncan's arguably better than those guys.
Like even Michael or just LeBron and Cobe Coke.
Duncan is okay.
Yeah, put Michael in it.
Duncan is arguably would beat those guys.
Stop it.
Duncan got five rings.
Stop it.
In a small market, by the way.
Jordan was in Chicago.
It's not going to be tough to get to Chicago.
Kobe's in LA.
It's not tough to convince somebody to come to LA.
It's tough to convince somebody to come to Cleveland.
LeBron went back to Cleveland.
See, that title is going to separate LeBron at the end of the day at some point because he is the number one scorer already.
He went back to a small market.
LeBron called me in 2009 to come to the Cavs.
Now, I said no for many reasons.
I spoke to King James on the phone.
And, you know, one, I want to play against King James.
I want to play against Kobe.
I want to play against T-Mac.
I typically don't like to play on their teams.
That's the main thing.
That was a small market.
You couldn't really convince me to go.
So San Antonio, small market.
So it's tougher to win in San Antonio than it is.
Interesting.
It's interesting what you just said because the perspective you're given is that the ability.
Like I asked Kobe, I said, Kobe, how do you recruit guys to come to your team?
So it's very easy for me.
You want to win?
Come with me.
You don't go with everybody else.
Remember when he said to easy sales?
He says, You want to come to me?
Let's go win.
He told you that.
He told me that.
Robbie, you can pull up that clip.
It's online somewhere.
He was on your show?
Yeah, yeah.
We had in front of 6,000 people.
2019.
2019.
Yeah, we had a very good.
But find a part about him saying recruiting if you can find it.
But it's interesting to say, who wants to go to a small market?
Who wants to go to a small market?
Who wants to go to a small market?
And now you got two small markets in the finals today.
Yes.
You got two small markets and the finals today.
You got Indiana and you got OKC.
Lowest view.
Did you see the data?
It's the lowest viewed finals since 1988, man.
It's a reason for that, honestly.
I think we got to get the people back used to.
We need to let these stars become stars, not like force-feeding stuff.
Tell me what you mean by that.
Meaning, like, there's a lot of manufactured stars.
Like who?
I don't want to mention people's names exactly, but for example, when Detroit Pistons won the finals, yeah, you had Richard Hamilton and Rashid Rollins, but nobody had them winning.
2004.
That was a team.
That was a team.
They became stars.
Look at the Warriors.
Yeah, they had Stephan Curry, but we didn't know.
But that team became stars.
But sometimes you get the media, they'll force feed you, you know, this guy force feed you this team.
I mean, look at this Pacer team.
You know, there's no real superstars.
No, even Halliburtons doesn't give me a superstar volume.
Yeah, they're not superstars yet, but they're going to become stars because we're going to win it.
Right.
You think you're going to win it?
Yeah, we're going to win in the season.
You think so?
Absolutely.
I was blown away by the fact that last night I'm sitting with Dylan's 11:30.
I'm like, are you freaking kidding me?
They're up two to one.
Yes, they are.
Because the way that OKC plays, they're long.
They got the D, you know, the way they're playing is it's a very intimidating team, 68 wins.
Like, they should win it.
Indiana's got how many wins?
50 or 51?
49 wins?
I don't even know what the number is.
Maybe not even 50.
So here's a question for you: What's the biggest difference between Halliburton and Chris Paul?
Halliburton, a little bit taller, a little bit more shifty, a better three-point shooter, you know, and probably a bigger clutch shot maker.
Than Paul.
Paul Michael, he probably could argue that, but Halliburton, he has this timing on his clutch shots.
The time he's on time.
He is not late.
His shot is a very unorthodox shot, but it just goes in.
It's like he holds it.
He holds it like a like.
He shoots it in a very, it's like old school shot.
He's got an 80s old school shot.
The way people would shoot.
He's got like a Sean Marion, Bill Cartwright, weird look.
I don't know if I would go that far.
I think he's just got a, he's got a, he's got an old shot.
He's seen here.
It's more 70s, actually.
It's more, it's more 60s, actually.
He's like Rick Berry at the free throw line.
It's a very weird shot.
Like, I don't know if they're going to duplicate that shot, but going back to fabricating players to become superstars.
So fabricating players to become superstars.
So if I gave you some names, okay, and on current NBA today, tell me what you think about their game, Giannis.
Giannis is really good on defense.
I think he's so physical on offense.
I don't know if he has a lot of moves, but he's scoring at a high clip because he's so physical.
He's quick.
He's in shape.
He's in shape.
He's so fun to watch.
He's a fun guy too.
He's a fun guy to watch.
His hedges on screens are incredible.
I really love his hedges on screens.
I love that the most about out of anything that he does because it's such an important part of the game.
What do you think about Luca?
Luca has to get in shape.
Luca has to get in shape.
I heard he lost 20 pounds.
Yeah, he has to not only lose weight, but also create endurance.
I think the game was a little bit easy for him on offense.
And I think he forgot that you also got to play defense.
And to play defense, you got to be in shape.
So, you know, so I think he has to be more aware of the game.
He has to be more aware that there are incredible players.
Look who's in the finals.
Luca is the man.
Well, guess what?
Now it's other people that are winning.
So Luca has to like really get back to square one.
When you think about Zion Williamson, okay, Zion is a beast of a guy.
When you look at his body, physicality, the whole thing, right?
And you're seeing the numbers that he's putting up if he plays.
I don't know how many games he's missed.
I think he's missed 200 plus games.
Yeah, a lot of games.
The last four or five seasons.
From your perspective, is he done or can he still come back and be superstar status champion type of guy?
Maybe go to the Knicks and maybe you coach him in the next two or three years.
You know what I'm saying?
Because he wants to go to the Knicks.
According to a lot of rumors you hear about, the guy wants to leave New Orleans and wants to go to the Knicks.
Do you think this guy's going to make a resurgence and be a superstar?
Yeah, I think he will.
He had the injury, came off the injury, so you can see he wasn't as bouncy.
I think the same situation as Luca.
I think you got to be aware.
Sometimes you get so much money, so much media, private jets, all this stuff, but you're not aware of the game.
You're not aware of the soul of the game.
So you're not aware that other people are working Shea Alexander in shape.
You know, you're letting these people catch up to you.
And by the way, they might stay consistently there.
You got Wimbinana.
You're not aware that, oh, Wimbinana is coming.
He's going to be a force in a couple years.
You only get a window.
You only get a window.
Russell Westbrook got MVP.
Well, that's a window.
And that window goes away.
No matter how good you are, somebody else is going to step in.
The same thing with winning.
You know, even with the Denver team, they won it once, right?
Twice and once.
Once.
They got there twice, I think.
They got there twice, yes.
And it's a window.
Now they don't know if we don't know if they're going to get there again.
So Zion and people like Luca, they got to understand this is a window.
Can you check to see if Denver got there twice?
They beat the Heat.
I know they got there once.
I think they've been on the Western Conference multiple times, and he's a stud of a guy.
Denver was one of the first championship in history.
Yeah, I think they just captured a championship.
They just got there and won.
What a team.
Oh, because that one-year- Jamal Murray was injured.
I don't know if you remember when he got hurt.
Yeah, that's right.
After they won it.
You were going to ask about a couple different players who are maybe, I don't want to put words in your mouth, sort of become the face of the league, almost coronated before they've done anything.
A name that comes to mind for me, my opinion, is Anthony Edwards.
He's never won anything.
He's, you know, Luca beat him, got to the finals.
Rash Gilgas, Alexander beat him, got to the finals.
Is he someone that you might be referring to as someone that, you know, the face of the league, but maybe hasn't deserved it yet?
So it's two different ways to become a face.
One, it's your sneaker company.
It's your branding company marketing you, paid ads, advertisement.
Then you got media.
They got to find somebody they're going to pick.
Good looking guy.
Good looking guy.
Media playing well.
You know, everybody's, you know, then you got those two ways.
You got the fans, right?
Then you got the fans.
And sometimes it's two, it's almost like three sections of fans.
You got the media fan who's only listening to the media.
Yeah.
And they just point out the messaging like that because they got to go to work.
And then you got the real fan, you know.
And then sometimes, depending on who's saying what, maybe all four of those verticals are saying Anthony Edwards.
Well, Shea has something to say about that.
Right.
You know?
And I think I like when you earned it.
I like when Ben Wallace earned the defensive player of the year.
Richard Hamilton or Chauncey Phillips earned that final MVP.
Eagle Dallas.
He was a stod, man.
Eagle Dallas.
Chauncey was incredible.
Yeah.
You know, Mr. Big Shot.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Ben, I think I'm.
Did Ben get defensive player of the year four times?
Multiplied.
I should have had one or two of those.
And Ben.
You should have one of his.
One.
I think one.
So I got a question for you.
Yeah, I think one.
Curious to know what you're saying.
He would make an argument that he should have had mine.
That's a good defensive player.
I'm going to steal your stuff.
So since we're talking about defensive player of the year, before we get to the milestone palace, but defensive player of the year, when you think about defensive player of the year, you know, they'll talk about Michael Jordan.
You know, he played defense and he was this and he was that.
And LeBron never got a defensive player of the year.
Right, right, right.
And then LeBron has said multiple times that that year when Marcus all got the defensive player of the year, it should have been his, right?
Right.
What are your thoughts about that?
Well, LeBron, I think LeBron's a good defender.
He's different.
He hustles you.
He tracks you down.
He's all over the floor.
He's rebounding.
He's a different type of defender.
It's probably going overlooked a little bit, but you can make the same case with MJ.
MJ actually, the way I locked up is the way MJ locked up.
You see what I'm saying?
MJ locked up like that.
You know, and got 30.
So MJ, it's a difference.
Marcus all was more protecting the rim.
So LeBron does have an argument because Mark wasn't locking up, but he was protecting the team.
He was the anchor like a Draymond Green.
Draymond locks up and he's the anchor, right?
So LeBron was a, he definitely was the anchor because you go to the basketball, here comes LeBron.
Even look at his big blocks that he had in the finals.
He for sure has an argument.
He has an argument.
On being a on winning the defensive player of the year that year over Marcus all I mean, Mark played, I think he has an argument that year because we were overlooking how he affects defense.
Everybody, we're used to seeing a wing player perimeter getting down on defense and doing what Michael Jordan did, which was Michael locked people up.
What year did Marcus all win defensive player of the year?
Marcus defensive player of the year 2013.
Interesting.
So 2013, what did LeBron do in 2013?
Yeah, defensive player of the year.
2013, he was playing for the Heat.
Defensive of the year, 2013.
Last or second to last year.
He voted second defensive player of the year?
Okay, so if we go to defensive player of the year, there's the most valuable rookie of the year, defensive player of the year.
So LeBron won second.
So Marcus all got 212 votes.
LeBron got 149.
Mark got 31st place votes.
And LeBron got 18.
Then it was Ibaka, Yokim Noah, and it was Tony Allen and Tim Duncan.
So he almost got it.
He almost got it.
LeBron averaged 0.9 blocks a game.
Mark was 1.7.
Steals, LeBron, 1.7.
Mark won.
I wonder how they scored that.
Because when I asked you a question, I said, you know, here's what Jordan averaged against you, LeBron average against you, Kobe average against you.
And then the first thing you asked about was what?
What do they shoot field goal?
Yeah, field goal percentage.
Is the NBA going to look at the fact of what the opponent's field goal percentage is to give you that defensive player of the year?
Well, I wouldn't have got defensive player of the year if it wasn't for Rick Carlisle because the year I got it, Rick Carlisle had the whole staff work on it.
So Rick Carlisle really won me that.
It was a stat that all small forwards averaged six points against me that year.
I didn't even know that.
So you combine all the small forwards when you play against Meta.
They were only getting six points.
Now, yeah, LeBron might have gotten 25, but everyone else was getting really sometimes zero.
I held a lot of people to zero points, which is really difficult.
Yeah.
You know, two points.
You know.
So you were 2004, right?
2004 defensive player of the year.
And who was second behind you that year?
It might have been Ben.
It was always me.
Those years it was just being Ben flip-flopping one or two.
Was it 03 or 04?
No, 03, 04, right?
I got it 03-04.
03-04.
Yeah.
Can you pull it up, Rob?
I'm actually curious right now.
Oh, Kevin Garnett finished second.
Oh, no shit.
Huh.
Let me check this one out.
If you go Rob, I'm actually curious to know who was.
Is it showing who's second and third or no?
Kevin Garnett.
How did he?
He got MVP that year.
And actually.
Minnesota.
Jermaine, I thought Jermaine should have won Defensive Player of the Year, but I got it.
So let's talk about, you know, here's an interesting stat.
I looked up who has been suspended, who got the biggest suspension in the NBA ever.
O.J. Mayo was first place.
I didn't know that about 162 games for what was it?
I think it was steroids.
It was something else.
OJ Mayo didn't look like he used steroids.
O.J. Mayo, he used steroids.
Substance in the public disclosure levels.
Typically, drugs of abuse.
It wasn't marijuana.
You're not going to get to spend it that long for marijuana.
Okay.
Well, anyways, he got 100.
Probably not for marijuana.
He got 162 games, give or take.
Okay.
Then yours was 86 games.
Yeah, too many games.
Yeah, and then third place was interesting was Lattrell Spreewell.
Oh.
Yeah, 68.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, when he choked out Rudy Tomjanovich.
No, no, no.
TJ Carlissimo.
T.J. Carlissimo, yeah.
Rudy Tomjanovich is the one that got punched in the face back in the days when he played.
I don't know if you know.
Oh, yeah, of course.
I think it was Larry Burton.
No, Junior Serving.
No, no.
No, no, you're not.
No, completely different guy.
Big guy.
Yeah, he's a nice guy, actually.
Punched him in the face, broke his jaw, and he had to sip.
You can type punch Rudy.
But anyways, and by the way, Lattrell Spreewell to me was one of the most exciting.
These guys at the time had who?
Billy Owens.
They had a very exciting squad, right, at the time.
Maybe even Mullen was on the team with him.
But with you, Malice at the Palace, right?
You know, you know, things are, things change when a sport creates new rules.
After that game, they never allowed glass drinks because of that game.
Did you know this?
The last time they allowed glass drinks in the NBA was at this game.
After this, they said, moving forward, there's no more glass drinks.
And no more drinking in the fourth quarter.
Is that what they, no more drinking in the fourth quarter?
No, no, no.
Alcohol stops in the fourth quarter.
I think now it stops in the fourth quarter.
So look, I've heard this story, God knows how many times.
It never gets old.
My son Dylan, you know, if he sits there and he wants to watch some video of sports, he says, Dad, can we watch Malice at the Palace?
You can watch Ronaldo score a goal, Messi score.
I want to watch Malice at the Palace.
Walk us through what happened here.
I don't even think the foul was that big of a foul, but just wasn't that big of a foul.
You see the score.
So we were winning the game, you know, and it wasn't that big of a foul, but I know what happened.
Like, so one, they were down.
I've never given up free layups.
I'm not, and just because it was Ben, I'm not going to give up a free layup.
And I saw Chauncey was on a podcast and said, you know, Ron fouled Ben.
He must not have known what he was doing.
Like, as if I didn't know I was fouling like a shack, like as if I was scared of a gorilla.
I'm like, you know, yeah, I knew what I was doing.
I was fouling Ben Wallace.
Of course I know what I'm doing.
And then, but as I fouled Ben, you know, he reacted.
Are you guys at that in that season?
Are you friends?
You guys talking about that?
I've never, no, we're definitely not friends.
You've never been friends.
No.
Till today.
I think we would see each other and say hello.
Like, I don't have no problems with Ben.
But it's not like you guys are like Oakley and Jordan were friends.
It's not like one of those things.
At all.
Never, never.
But was there animosity?
Is there anything that maybe he got an award that you didn't get or is there anything there?
I think the defensive player of the year is because when he got his in 2002, in 2002, I was an immersion defender, and I wanted that award.
He won it.
Then he got it again in 2003.
In 2003, I think I made first team all defense, and I was locking a lot of people up.
And I'm like, damn, I should have got that award.
In 2004, I actually get the award.
So now he has two, I have one.
Then you got the next year, it's the brawl year.
Now, keep in mind, in 2003 for me, I got the most text and the most fragrance, I think, in the league.
0-3.
0-3.
And I think the media was like, you know, Meta is too wild.
Don't just give him that award.
I think they just gave it to Ben.
Not like he earned it, but I think it edged.
2004, I had my head on a little bit more straight.
03, 04.
The next year, I could suspend it.
So the next year, I thought I was going to win it.
Because not only, you know, am I still the best defender, I believe, but my average is up, you know, it went up to 24 before I got suspended.
So now I'm out, you know, so now, and then keep in mind, the year I got defensive player of the year, I finished number six in MVP voting.
No shit.
A lot of stuff they keep away when it comes to me.
You were number six MVP voting?
I finished number six.
Wow.
Hey, what's up?
I'm Meta World Peace, the chairman of our test management group.
And now I am officially on my neck.
I want you to reach out to me.
I got a lot of things to offer, whether you wanted to chat about sports, basketball on the business side, business development, consultation, brand strategy, foreign relations, and more.
I look forward to connecting with you on my neck.
That's averaging 18 points.
So check this out.
So that's averaging 18.
I make 13 all NBA at 23 years old.
So check this out.
If I got that in, you know, that's the year I got defensive player of the year.
Okay.
You see?
So if I got that, so now I'm out.
Now the next line under is 24.
That's MVP.
That's six points more.
And we're the best team in the league.
We had the best record the year I got defensive player of the year.
So I think that was my, I talk about that window.
That's that window.
That's that window.
Like Shea Alexander, you know, MVP.
We don't know when the next time he's going to get it.
So I think that was my year.
That was my window to get MVP.
So and so you're defensive player of the year.
And is the NBA hyping it up that you guys are, you know, rivals and all that other stuff?
Are they doing that or not really?
Is it just something that you and Pistons?
Was there.
Oh, we was rivals, yo, for sure.
Your rivals at that time.
We wasn't rivals from the perspective of like, you know, it was generated by media.
It's because we created that.
The Pistons and Pacers, we created that.
Now they came out on top because they won, but we competed really hard.
And internally, we even say it.
I'll speak to Rip Hamilton because me and Rip, probably, I speak more to Rip than any of them.
And I'm cool with Rashid and also, and Chauncey and Tayshawn, I know Tayshawn for so long.
And, you know, I like these guys.
But when we played against each other, you know, it was a different.
So he comes in.
It's not a hard foul.
It's a foul.
Right, rather hard foul.
It's a foul, but not a hard foul.
And then he reacts.
He reacts.
So immediately when I fouled him and he turned to me, I was trying to say, sorry.
Maybe not sorry, but maybe my bad.
Because if you look at my reaction, and that's what I was doing.
I remember that.
Rob, can you play it so we can get commentary from?
Because, you know, and by the way, I don't know if we can play it on the podcast or not.
Maybe we can, maybe we can.
But if we can play just to get commentary, I want to see this from his perspective.
Because God knows how many times I've seen this thing here.
I know.
Too many times.
Is that it?
That's definitely part of it.
Yeah, that's definitely part of it.
If you click on it, let's play on that one, Rob.
They're definitely going to play it.
Okay, so here we go.
Back up a little bit.
Yeah, show the foul.
You have to show the foul.
Because you have to see the foul rob.
Yeah, that picks up at the push.
That's still.
Yeah, go to another.
We got to go to the one above right there.
Check that one out.
See?
That's it.
Okay, that's it.
So go back a little bit.
This is just going to show the foul.
Watch this.
So you're going in.
So hold it right there.
Okay.
Now, that's definitely not a soft foul.
Let me be it's not, but it's not a flagrant tour or flagrant one foul.
Did they call a flagrant one on that or not?
That was a, that was, you know, it could have been a flagrant, but or it could, that's a flagrant.
Okay, that's a flagrant.
That was.
Now I can see why Ben.
You know what?
It's like when you slow him down a little bit, you just call him a flagrant.
Well, I didn't, I didn't, I never saw this angle.
And this is, keep in mind, over the last 20 plus years, I said it was a soft foul.
Now you're calling him flagrant?
Well, I'm calling that a, that's a, that's a, that's a flagrant.
But you didn't make a play for the ball.
Well, I wanted to make a play just to grab him, but it was a weird angle.
I don't know.
Look at my eyes.
It's a left hand.
No, that's a, that's a, that's a flagrant.
That's actually a flagrant.
The right hand goes for the ball at least a little bit.
I've never even seen it like that.
By the way, I've never seen this angle myself.
I've never seen this angle.
So can you, Rob, can you find the other angle?
So you see, he hit you in the neck.
Well, pause it right there, Rob.
Yeah.
So go for it.
You were saying.
You were saying something.
Well, before that, I see this angle.
It's a hard foul.
Maybe it's not a flagrant.
It's definitely like a warning, right?
It's a warning.
But now you see.
Now look at my hand.
Let me see if you keep going.
I said, no, no, wait, wait, wait, wait.
I don't know if you're going to see it, but well.
You can go to the other court.
Yeah, maybe go to the other court.
Because now the other court shows the.
Yeah.
So after I fouled them right there, right there.
Yeah, I saw the right one.
I was trying to be like, sorry, or I don't know.
Yeah, like maybe like, hey, yeah, we're good.
And then he was like, he's tough and I'm tough.
Yeah, Ben Wallace ain't no joke.
You know, and but you see me, I'm not too worried.
You know, because like.
Was Ben known as a guy that would fight in Brawl or no?
Now, Ben's just a good player.
Ben's a very focused player.
Look at me.
I'm chilling, so I'm not worried about it.
I'm not worried.
I'm laying on the scores.
Yeah.
You know, so.
You were like lying, literally, like lounging.
I think I want to say that.
I'm really chilling.
I'm not worried because, you know, I didn't want to turn up.
Look, I'm right there.
I'm not worried.
Now, by the way, you can pause it here at this point.
Is it fair to say Jermaine is a gamer?
No, Jermaine's a, yeah, that whole team.
He's a gamer.
Like, no, no, no.
Now, I'm not saying basketball.
I'm talking about like if things go down, Jermaine is a gamer.
Yeah, Jermaine, all the whole team, the whole team is.
The whole team is full of dogs.
The whole team filled with dogs.
Who was the toughest?
Who was David Harrison?
He was a big dude.
Okay, David Harrison, a dog.
Jamal Tinsley, your point guard, Jamal Tinsley.
Yeah, New York City.
He was a street boy before.
Iowa State, I want to say.
I will stay.
He was a gangster.
He street before ball.
Steven Johnson.
Freddie Jones.
Freddie Jones, dog.
There's nothing but dogs on that team.
No.
And Jameson Brewer, dog.
Yeah, who put the team?
Jeff Foster.
I think you had Kenny Anderson, the point guard, no.
Kenny Anderson was on that team.
Old school.
Who put that team together?
Donnie Walsh.
Who put these together?
Donnie Walsh.
So he intentionally was looking for dogs like he was looking for dogs.
He got them too.
And so keep playing it, Rob.
Keep playing it.
So there you are lounging.
So as I'm lounging, like the referees had no control, right?
So the referees, you know, Ben wanted to fight.
He had come most closely.
And they hold it.
I mean, you know, so he's throwing stuff at me now.
That's why I got up right there.
But up until this point, this is nothing out of the ordinary.
It's a little scuffled.
No, no, until something gets thrown.
No, what's out of the ordinary is that they didn't eject.
They got to make an injection.
Like, there was no control.
The refs had no control.
Typically, you would be like, eject it, foul, eject it.
Do it again.
Warning.
It was like they was like, oh, my goodness.
People don't have no control.
Make some decisions.
So if Ben would have been ejected, boop, foul.
Oh, you're running after him now?
Stop.
Oh, I can't hold you.
Ejected.
Out of here.
That's how that goes.
So now that you're watching this, should they have ejected both of you?
I don't, I mean, maybe if, because they was ejected, I was always getting ejected for looking at people.
I got ejected for looking at people the wrong way.
But in this situation, I mean, I think you call the foul.
Yeah.
You call the tech on Ben for pushing or the warning.
And as he's running, you go get him and say, stop.
As he's still going, at some point, there has to be a tech.
There was never a tech in this situation.
Up until this point, they haven't called a tech or foul or not one tech.
Only the foul that they called.
Only the foul.
And that wasn't a phlagram back then.
That was, I mean, no, did they, did the refs call it a phlagrin back then?
They just called it a foul.
But it wasn't a little, I mean, you got to think about it.
They were down.
They're the former champs.
They were down.
And then Ben had to go to the free throw line.
Probably was going to miss one of the one, right?
You know what I mean?
So he probably was going to.
This is the beginning of the next season after they won the championship.
This is in November.
The season starts in October.
This is grudge.
10 games in.
10 games in.
So now watch, keep playing a big game.
Now it's about to happen.
They said it wasn't a big game, but for us, it was a big game.
And you did this in their house.
Yeah, for us, you're still lying on the bench on the edge.
Reggie Miller's table is good.
It's Ben Wallace doing his thing.
And I'm just trying to get this shit over with already.
And then suddenly, someone throws.
That's Mike Brown yelling.
I don't know how to have freaking time.
This is the other end.
No, this is.
Well, I wish Steve would have guarded it, actually.
You're going to blame it on Steven Jackson.
Come on, Steve.
No, he's out there with all the stuff that's thrown on him.
So they haven't dropped the cup.
Nothing's been dropped yet.
Nothing's been dropped yet.
It should have happened.
Lindsay Hunter was trying to calm things down.
Actually, Lindsay is trying to keep it under the shooter, man.
Lindsay was fun.
Lindsay was incredible.
Yeah, he was fun to watch.
Oh, I wish they didn't have.
Oh, there it was.
It was a purple cup.
Ben runs back.
Wait for it.
See the cup land on him.
Now, here, the craziest fight in NBA history ensues.
All right, here's the unfortunate situation.
That's one way to put it.
Here is the unfortunate situation.
By the way, who's telling you don't do it?
Is anybody telling you don't do it?
Because stop, like, come back out.
Is anybody trying to stop it?
I didn't see Steven Jackson stopping you.
No, no, it was massive.
Yeah, I don't think the referee blowing a whistle at this point isn't it.
But you got to realize, somebody's got to be like, look, bro, we're going to get suspended.
No, Nobody stands.
Not in there.
Not at that point.
Because what happened was, so when the guy hit me, and by the way, the guy made a $50 bet that he could hit me.
So that's what, it's on my documentary.
It's on the documentary down there.
Yeah.
So he betted the gentleman.
He was here.
Another gentleman was here.
This guy betted this guy that he couldn't.
No, this guy betted John Green that he couldn't hit me for $50.
So then John threw the cuff and hit me, who's a kind of a friend now, actually.
He threw the cup and hit me.
And then the other gentleman raised his hand, like, oh, you did it.
And then when I got hit, that's the first thing that I saw.
You thought it was.
He was the kid who did it, yeah.
And then people said you hit the wrong guy, but it wasn't the wrong guy.
Wasn't there someone on the floor that you came up to?
Come clear up.
Let me commentate this.
Keep going.
So I'm trying to see who threw it at you.
Yeah, they got, so they hit the frame.
It was like when we were in court, they showed frame by frame.
Rob, can you go back, Rob?
I want to know who, you know.
So when he runs up, no, no, a little bit back when he first runs up.
Okay, right there.
Okay, let it go.
Okay, let it go from here.
So, okay, pause right there.
Who threw the cup?
So John in the white hat, my friend John.
He threw it.
And he bet the guy, the guy bet, the guy I'm attacking right now.
And so you never hit John?
I didn't hit any of them.
I shook the Ryan.
I think his name was Ryan.
I never punched anyone in the face now.
No, I didn't.
Not until later.
The other guy that came up to you.
The guy that came up to me.
Yeah, he tried to attack me on the court.
I didn't punch none of these guys.
These guys, I just shook him.
I just held him like, don't you ever throw no cup at me.
Play it right from here.
Right.
And then John punched me.
Okay, you don't punch it.
Well, you kind of slap him.
No, I'm like, don't you have to do it?
And that's John holding you back.
Yeah, John.
Someone threw another.
That's Jackson.
And then somebody threw another.
This is the greatest fight in NBA history.
I mean.
Right.
And then John punches me in my face from behind right there.
Now he's punching me in my face.
Are you joking?
John punched you in the face.
He punched me in my face.
Go back a little bit.
I've never seen this.
John punching you in the face.
Yeah, he's punching me in my face.
Right there, right now.
Look, look at it.
You see that?
Yeah, I saw that.
I saw it.
He saw me getting punched in the face.
Wow.
So, John, what did John do?
Was John a tough guy or just a fan?
Like, so, John, so when you, I was so depressed after this.
So years has passed.
Just pause it for a second.
Then you can go.
So what happened was in 2007, I was trying to become undepressed.
So I started to reach out to everybody in that area in the situation.
So I reached out to John.
We actually had a conversation, became like friends.
You know, so, but John's situation, he was AAA.
He was already in AA at this point.
Got it.
He wasn't even supposed to be drinking.
I learned a lot about John Curry Friends.
And he was also going through a little bit of issues with his family also.
So it's a backstory to him that I'm also sympathetic, even though he lost me tens, tens, and tens of millions of dollars.
I lost so much money, so much opportunity cost.
But that don't really affect me as much as his story.
You know, I'm more like he was going through stuff too.
And I'm on the board of UCLA Psychiatric where I have a soft spot for people that's going through stuff.
So which is unfortunate, but it's just how I made up.
Wow.
So, Rob, keep playing it.
Keep playing it.
But yeah, in this moment.
Lower the audio a little bit, Rob, because we can hear it.
So, okay, at this point, it's going back and forth.
At this point, it's back and forth.
So, by the way, did Ben and you, did Ben at all hit you?
Did any of the pistons at all hit you during this?
Well, Ben was just throwing his wristbands when I was on the table.
It's tough to hurt you with wristbands.
Well, yeah, it should have been a tech.
Okay, so you're Wes.
Wes.
Wes got me.
I almost got pepper sprayed.
I didn't even know it.
The cop was coming up to pepper spray me, and the guy that's holding me, Worldwide West.
Oh, Worldwide Wes.
Roy Wild West.
That's right.
If it wasn't for him, I would have got pepper spray and arrested on the floor.
Larry Brown is right there, Wes.
Pause it, pause it.
Yeah.
Wes got me.
If you see the tape, you'll see the cop had the pepper spray.
Because the guy, when I got back down to the floor, then the other fans tried to punch me.
Two fans jumped me.
Two more fans, they jumped me.
They literally jumped me.
Oh, Rob, if you go back in the other clip, the other clip will show the two fans trying to jump him.
The one that was, that's the one right there.
Watch this, so just keep it playing.
Let it go.
Okay, so boom, that's that.
And then this is when it drink hits.
Man, what a disaster.
Yeah, and then it starts.
And there's John.
See, John was like, ooh, see, John.
See, John.
And then this is it.
Yeah, this guy came and attacked him.
Who's this guy?
Yeah, he knocked him out.
How are they on the floor?
That's my point.
Boom.
And then Jermaine O'Neill comes in, Sergeant.
Oh, yeah.
So he slips.
What he's doing.
See what I'm saying?
And then like, I watched one.
Is that Chuck Person?
That's Chuck.
Yeah, that's my guy.
Trying to get him out.
Chuck was a great guy.
Chuck and Reggie.
Chuck was incredible.
Chuck was a shooter.
Yeah, so this game was on you.
Scott Potter.
By the way, they just did that to DeMarcus Cousins.
He sees it a couple days ago.
I saw that.
So let's.
Mike Brown.
So, okay.
Ron, Meta, this ends.
Yeah.
They stop the game.
It's over.
Like, everyone's going home.
Nothing's going to be happening.
You're in the locker room.
Like, what's going on in the locker room now?
What's going on with the chaos?
Yeah.
The locker room was weird because, well, for me, I worked so hard.
I was in therapy.
I'm doing everything I got to do.
You know, I'm on the table.
I'm not engaging with Ben.
You know, that's all things I practice in therapy.
So I'm like, so I'm in a locker room.
I'm like, no way that this has happened.
So much is going through my head.
Like, I'm averaging 24.
You know, I'm going to be an all-star again.
I'm going to be first-team all-defense again.
You know, all this is about to happen.
You know, we're going to be the best team in the league again.
You're talking about when Iverson was in the East.
You're talking about when Kobe was in the league.
We had the best record when Shaq was, they was in the league at this point in time.
You see what I'm saying?
So this is legacy right here.
So when I got into that locker room, I asked Steve and I said, y'all think we're going to ask Steve and Jamal kind of a general question.
I said, you think we're going to get in trouble?
Because I'm just like, if this is, if I know David Stern, and if this is what I think it is, I am done.
And then Steve was like, yeah, we are done.
I was like, oh, my goodness.
So I, you know, so it was, it was like, it was definitely the worst day.
That was probably the worst day of my life for sure.
And then also, no, the worst day of my life was in 1999, not getting drafted by the Knicks.
It's the second worst day of your life.
She's saying you were already in therapy prior to that fight?
Yeah, so I had anger management problems, as we all know.
No, yes.
I kind of don't want to make a joke about this now.
Hey, man, okay.
It's okay, man.
I got it.
We could do a whole stand-up show, and it's honestly brought to you by value tame.
Shit.
MVP voting that year, Nash is one.
Shaq's two.
That's the one where Shaq's like he thought he took it from him.
Dirk is three.
Duncan is four.
AI, LeBron, McGrady.
Not this year.
Not this year.
So maybe, is that 0305?
Oh, sorry.
0405.
Oh, sorry.
No.
All right.
So this is after I got, I'm talking about 0304.
Yeah, this is 0404.
Garnetts.
Duncan.
Jermaine O'Neal.
What else to say?
And then Pedro Stoyakovich, Kobe, Shaq, Ben Wallace, Kid.
For MVP?
Yeah, 03.
This is 0304.
I thought I finished six.
Well, let me check one of them.
Maybe it's a different one I'm looking at.
No, you might be looking at the right one.
Maybe I could be wrong.
Until I finished 6th MVP voting.
Because we was the...
But this happens.
This is what I'm trying to get at him.
What I'm trying to find out is the locker room after this.
Is Brown even in the locker room?
Is he talking to you guys?
Oli Brown.
Yeah.
He's the other coach.
Who is your Carlow?
Is Carlisle saying anything to you guys?
Carla's trying to calm everybody down.
Well, he knows it's done.
The seasons, he's about to lose two of you guys.
Well, at that point, it was so wild.
And the fans, we wasn't even thinking about that.
We were thinking about getting out that building.
You know?
So at that point, we know something has happened.
So Carl is just trying to calm everybody down and not let it escalate anymore.
It was a wild time.
That's what everybody, we all knew we was done.
What's Miller?
Is Reggie Miller in the locker rocking to you guys?
People was outside the doors.
People was everywhere.
Everybody's outside the door.
How long?
I was in this.
I just went to my seat.
How long from you leaving, like right there where they're pouring everything on you, throwing everything on you, to you guys in the locker room, shower leaving?
How long is that time?
That might have been an hour.
It might have been an hour.
So you guys have an hour together.
Well, they wanted to arrest us.
Are you kidding me?
Yeah, some of the ways.
Because you guys, you know, people say, hey, Meta, why are you going to sue?
Like, that's not even in my makeup to sue.
You know, people sue.
It's not even in my makeup.
But I think you had any, that could have went south for the businesses.
There's a lot of lawsuits that could have happened.
You know, none of us filed any lawsuits.
You know, now, some of the people like this guy, the guy that hit me, not Ben, the other, the fan, tried to file a lawsuit.
He did?
Yeah, he came on the both of them, tried to file a lawsuit.
This guy.
And the other, both of them.
Look at these guys.
Look at these guys.
What happened?
Any luck or nothing?
No luck.
No luck.
The district attorney.
The district attorney of Detroit was incredible.
The judge was like a little bit like the media got to the judge.
It was, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't.
Who is the best player on the team at that time?
Is it Reggie?
On that team?
Yeah.
No, me and Jermaine.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
No, like that, but Reggie was, oh, this is Reggie's second to last year.
Was this the year where it's kind of like, hey, this is a shot for Reggie to win the chip?
This was the year, for sure.
I mean, I was the leading scorer on the team.
Oh, man.
I saw a clip, speaking of Reggie.
I don't know if you were in it.
I think Stephen Jackson was in it, where they apologized to him, and Reggie started crying.
Yeah, I saw that.
I saw that.
Because he's like, nah, it's not your fault.
Yeah, we felt bad.
It was like super emotional.
It's very emotional.
It is.
Were you in that or was that just the other one?
Not that just Steve and Reggie.
That was just Steve and Reggie.
Okay, he's apologizing saying, I knew this was your last chance.
And we kind of ruined it with the Malice to Palace.
I ruined it.
But Steve is saying we were just being nice.
Steve was just being a little bit nice.
It was definitely probably the majority of my fault.
Is that it, Rap?
Yeah.
I'm glad to see you because this, I've never had a chance to tell you that I'm sorry.
Just let me finish, though.
Because we all understood what our motivation was for.
That's true.
It wasn't for us.
It was for you.
Yeah, for sure.
The whole motivation was for getting things done the right way and getting the championship with you.
You wanted to bring Reggie around.
I never got a chance to apologize to you for my actions.
Now, with me saying that, I love you even more because you defended me because you knew that I was just being a lawyer teammate.
I wasn't, you know what I'm saying?
I wasn't out there being a thug or nothing like that.
So it meant a lot to me.
That's why I got to take a drink because I told you I didn't want to go there, man.
I'm trying to hold mine in.
You don't need to say that to me, man.
Come on, man.
So, you don't need to apologize to me.
First of all, you young cat, when I say young, I mean Jamal, Jermaine, Al, yourself, Ron.
Those last few years in Indiana were my best years.
I didn't have my superpowers, but I felt, and you guys made me feel like I was super bad.
We had some dogs, man.
We had a squad that was arguably, and I played on some Indiana teams that were destined, should have, could have, but always came short.
That team, we were stacked, man.
You know, that team was crazy.
We was definitely, you know, that team was incredible.
And I was in my prime on the wing.
Like, nobody was getting nothing off.
But yeah, you know, that's why I didn't really want to fight Ben or why I was like trying to go to scrolls table.
I was in therapy.
So after my practices, after every practice, I had to go to therapy.
You understand?
So that's like going through.
So that's what I did after every practice.
So from that perspective, what Jack was saying was 100% right.
So I can take the blame because I didn't expect anybody to hit me.
Like I was preparing for other things, like on court, not getting texts, not being detrimental to the team.
The fan thing was like, I never saw that coming.
Never saw that coming.
Caught me off guard.
So, so, man, can you imagine?
You know, I watch the game and I think about when we're talking today, when was the favorite era watching the NBA?
I'm like, you know, 90s, early, mid-2000, and that's it.
After that, it was, you know, of course, 2010, Lakers were winning.
I was good.
Kobe, all that stuff, I'm good.
After Cope, I'm done with the NBA.
I don't have any interest in the NBA.
I've not rooted for anything.
I've been out, right?
But to me, there's one thing that, and I wonder what you'll say about this.
The one thing that made the game, like right now, okay, WNBA, stats came out today.
I don't know if you saw the stats that came out today.
Since Caitlin Clark's been injured, viewership has been down 55% since she's been injured, right?
Wow.
But guess what?
Before that leaves.
53% decline, 55% declined since her injury.
Since her injury, right?
Man.
And you got Angela, is it Angela Reese?
Angel Reese.
Angel Reese, right?
And she's very good at getting rebounds off her missed shots and she stacks those a lot.
But she's, so these guys, but there is animosity in the game.
Right.
Right?
There's a level of animosity in the game where fans who would, I would never watch WNBA.
Right, right.
Now you're like, dude.
Yeah, Caitlin's captivating.
Caitlin's captivating and she's a good villain.
So it's kind of like going back and forth, seeing what's going to happen.
Do you think the NBA, maybe you're going to disagree with this?
The game today, yeah, I don't know.
It is what it is.
Man, there was villains back then.
There was animosity back then.
It was true.
You know, like I remember when Jordan wanted to go out and hang out with Oakley and Pat Riley's like, no, you can't go do that.
He's trying to soften you up, become friends with you.
We're not doing that.
There was a certain element of that.
Do you miss that?
Do you think it'll ever have that?
Or do you think it's just kind of like, you know?
It's back now.
You think it is?
Yeah, it's back.
If you look at the league now, it's aggressive.
It's people that don't talk to each other.
It's back.
It's just that people that's not watching, they're basing their, you know, kind of comments and opinions on two years ago, three years ago, because that's what it was.
But if you watch now, the league is really physical.
And there's people that do not talk to each other.
Cool.
I love that.
I don't know exactly, but I'm watching the games and you can tell, like, for example, Halliburton, the players called him the most overrated player.
He's the most overrated, a poll, a player poll.
That's right.
I saw that.
Because he talks a lot of trash.
He's not making friends with a lot of people out there.
So right now, the league is coming back.
But I think people that got turned off, they haven't watched recently.
Because right now it's incredible.
What do you think caused the NBA to be turned off?
So lowest viewership since 1988.
Lowest viewership in the finals.
Of course, two small markets.
I get that, but it's the lowest viewership since 1988.
What caused it?
I think the change, I think because it's a global game, right?
And I think now the money's going higher because...
Now, I'm not talking viewership.
What I'm talking about is what caused animosity to leave?
Because the leaving of the animosity wasn't because of Kobe.
Kobe was all animosity.
What happened after Kobe with LeBron?
What caused animosity to be gone in the NBA?
As a fan?
Just the game doesn't.
All right, so everyone's friends.
Everyone's like, oh, you know, me and Chris Paul are hanging out or doing something else.
I see what you're saying.
If you watch him with the camera, I'm like, I want to know you don't like each other.
I want to know there's a fight.
I want to know there's like, you know, the greatest UFC fight ever.
You know what it was?
It's freaking, you know, Khabib against Connor.
Dude, Khabib wanted to kill him.
He wanted to, and so as a fan, it's the most viewed fight ever in the history of UFC.
And today, it's kind of like, yeah, whatever.
You know, we'll see what's going to happen.
It's a little soft.
And by the way, I don't disagree with you on how it is.
I think Shay is a little bit calm.
He's not steering the pot and creating excitement.
He's like, no, we'll be fine.
No, we'll be this.
Versus Halliburton's like, dad's getting kicked out.
Dad's talking shit.
He's doing this.
He's making fun of his dad's pants.
And, you know, you kind of seen that a little bit with him.
But what caused the game to be softer?
Well, I think how we left the game, there's the rules.
I think people were trying to move the game forward.
I think they wanted to remove themselves from our era.
And then a lot of the fabric has changed.
The fabric was changing, actually.
And then you saw more people buddy, buddy on other teams, more people before games laughing, talking.
I mean, even Elton Brand, one of my best friends who I love to this day, like literally.
You guys fought in AAU.
You and Elton Brand got into a fight one time.
You got to fight on the same team.
You got to do Lamar Oldham together.
Me and Elton got in a fight on the same team on the label line.
And that came from playing against each other.
And then also in our practices, our Riverside Church practices.
Wow.
Which was really intense.
I was always in intense in practice.
And, you know, I think, you know, we were always taught no friends.
So if I'm, so me and Elton, we got drafted together with the Bulls.
When we were playing against each other in practice in Chicago, I mean, Elton's a big, strong boy.
You got to watch out for Elton.
Clippers, yeah, he used to be.
He's a big, strong boy, you know, and a man.
You know, Elton Brand Clippers or is Elbows?
Clippers also play very well.
He averaged 20 and 10.
I think for his career, he's an underrated, underrated player.
Very underrated.
But, you know, so from that perspective, we came up under the era of competing.
You know, when me and Lamar would play against each other, who's a really great friend, I wasn't making friends with Lamar.
You know, I wasn't trying to say, yo, what are you doing after this for dinner?
You weren't that guy?
No, not at all.
And those are the closest friends.
And then you had some other people.
I don't know you.
I definitely am not trying to get dinner with you or lunch or anything.
But I think the good thing about being friends because a lot of players miss out on opportunities to do business together, too.
So you're talking about having a 10-year career, no friends.
You know, that's so much opportunities where you could be bent in doing business together.
It's more strategic if you are friends to do more business.
You should be friends, honestly.
Now, you can still compete, but go co-invest together.
Like, imagine if we're not talking as athletes, we can co-invest about real estate, doing this stuff together.
So I think LeBron started.
I didn't want to go direct at LeBron, but LeBron started the friendship.
But I think he was on to something.
But at some point in time, you got to compete.
So I think now is a better balance.
I think now is a better balance.
I don't know, man.
I got to tell you, I don't like that.
So I want to show you this.
I just want to know how you're going to react to it.
Okay.
When you played against Michael or Kobe, okay, can you ever visualize Michael or Kobe doing things like this?
I just want you to watch this and just give me your thoughts on it.
I mean, you're, you're like, obviously, that's a flagrant too, at least, right?
That's a hard foul on LeBron for him to fall that way.
Look at that.
What happened right there?
You think Michael and Kobe are going to react that way?
Let's let it continue.
Let it keep.
I just want to get your thoughts.
Let it play, Rob, because it's going to keep showing you more of these.
I love LeBron.
I know you do.
I know it's your guy.
Okay, so just watch this.
Sorry, LeBron.
I'm going to comment on this.
Watch this one here.
Look at that.
What a hard foul by Paul George.
Knocked him out like 20 feet.
Here's another one for you.
Watch this one.
You know, I don't know.
Look at this.
And that's his boy Chris Paul, by the way.
They're friends.
Look at that.
Chris is like, they're both great actors.
Maybe that was kind of like, I want to show you I'm a better actor than you.
No one's touched that.
You can pause it at this point.
Meta, be honest, man.
You see this stuff deep down inside.
Do you watch this and say, this is part of the strategy, Pat?
This is what you don't understand as a fan.
He's been strategic.
It's a strategy.
It is a strategy.
Where does strategy come from?
It comes from the rule changes.
It comes from changing the culture.
It's not the player's fault.
It's the referee's fault.
Why doesn't Caitlin Clark do this?
She gets fouled all the time.
She stands up.
She's a different breed.
Caitlin's a different breed.
Okay, so then that's the point.
Caitlin's a different breed.
She's old school.
Caitlin's a different breed.
Caitlin's old school.
Caitlin's tough.
She's old school.
She's a different breed.
Oh, shit.
She's a different breed.
She's from our.
She's from Indiana.
She can shoot, though.
She's a shooter.
She for sure.
Yeah, she can shoot.
But have you seen when she gets fouled, what she does?
She jumps up.
Like, she doesn't want you to feel like you hurt her.
I was talking to one of the owners of The Fever, and they were like, Caitlin's getting fouled so much.
And I said, Don't worry about Caitlin.
She said, Yeah, but they're going to hurt her.
I said, Don't worry about her.
She is going to be fine.
She's not worried.
But you know, I think so.
I think when the referees are calling these flops, you know, that's where you say, Oh, they're going to call flops.
Well, I'll do it too.
I think they're, I think, but you got to, but if they're flopping and the refs is calling foul.
Oh, but that, that, that is, but again, like too, too.
Okay, so let me ask you.
Take advantage of the rules.
Let me ask you: Michael Kobe plays today.
You think they're going to flop the way they did, the way this guy does?
Um, I don't think so, but I do think if the ref the rules wasn't like that, you couldn't even do that.
You see what I'm saying?
That the rules was here.
This is Caitlin Clark.
I'm only showing this against LeBron because she's from Indiana.
I want to give you credit, but watch this.
Boom.
What does she do?
Up.
No foul.
Okay.
Oh, oh, oh.
That was a dirty foul.
Yeah, that one.
That one, you might have to use a different one.
I mean, maybe not.
That's above the neck, though.
Here, watch this.
Watch this.
Boom, boom, boom.
Okay.
What does she do?
Boom.
She's a different breed.
She doesn't want you to think she's hurt.
No, I love her, yo.
She's incredible.
Ooh, that's tough.
I mean, he punched her in the face.
Caitlin's like, don't help me up.
I love Caitlin.
She's incredible.
Yeah, you see.
And again, to me, look at that.
Let's see.
She goes, look at this.
She got a hit upside the head, semi-punched upside-the head.
And what does she do?
She's getting her senses back.
Yeah.
And so you can pause it right there.
A part of me as a fan, and maybe this is just me as a fan, man.
Dude, do you know, like I was telling this guy earlier, okay?
You're a hater, you're this, you're that.
Well, I'm a Kobe diehard Laker.
I go back, Ron, me, Meta.
I go back, Sadel Treat.
I go back, Van X, Anthony, Peeler, Lefty, Elbow.
That's how I am with the Bulls, like Will Perdue, Dickie Simpkins, like Wellington, all these guys.
Well, those are my guys.
But you know, you watch this.
I so want to come back to being a die-hard fan of the game and just few things about it.
Yeah, I think you might want to start watching.
I think if you want to come back to start watching the game, I think it's shifting.
It's a huge shift.
Right now, it's a huge shift.
They're not calling fouls.
You got to watch some of these.
I don't know if you watched the playoffs this year.
I did.
And I don't know if you've seen the whole thing.
They're letting them play, and I love it.
They're letting them play.
Slowly coming back.
They're letting them play.
Yeah.
That's a part of it.
You got to get it back to the American game.
We can't, like, yeah, let over and foreign people come into the, let them come play, right?
But it was a point in time when, like, Draj and Petrovit, where they, you see, Dragon get in somebody's face.
He wasn't backing down.
He came into the American game.
Did you play against him?
I didn't play against him.
He was a Jersey.
He played for New Jersey.
He played for Jersey.
I would have overlapped it with him if he didn't, you know, he passed away early.
Yeah.
But yeah, we got to get the American game.
The way they talk about him, have you heard stories about Draj and what they say about this?
Oh, he was an incredible player.
Now, he was sick.
He died in a car accident, I want to say.
Yeah, it was a rough situation.
What happened with them?
Incredible player right there.
So, go ahead, Adam.
I think you got a question.
I think you were alluding to, I don't want to put words in your mouth.
You're saying that the European game is a little more soft than the American game.
You're saying we want to get back to the American game.
Yes.
The European game.
I'm not saying the European game soft is different, but we got to get in America.
We got to get to our American game.
What do you think?
Speaking of that, what do you think the reason is that only non-Americans are winning the MVP?
It's because in America.
It's been Jokic.
Yes.
Shea.
It's been Giannis.
Yeah.
It's been who else has won it recently?
Did Luca win an MVP or no?
No.
Okay.
Giannis, Luca.
No, I'm sorry, not Luca.
Shea, Jokic.
Oh, Joe Ellen Bi, I want to say he was Cameroon, I want to say.
Point is, when's the last time that an American-born player has won the MVP?
What are your thoughts on the game change and less Americans being the man now?
Because in America, we have a culture problem and it's seeping into our sports now.
The culture problem is we're not on the same page.
And because we're not on the same page, we, good or bad, we rather not help each other and let someone else come in and creep up and grab territory, grab opportunity.
This has happened outside of sports also, right?
This happened outside of sports.
And that's the problem with basketball: for example, we'll send our players overseas.
We'll help the overseas players get better.
They come back here.
What do we do in America?
We sent our grown men who just left college to go play against a 15-year-old Luca, right?
Because they're playing overseas, but our 15-year-old kids can't play pro.
Well, who do you think is going to get better?
The 15-year-old kid playing against men.
You see what I'm saying?
And we're not collaborating with former pros, like myself and others to help the game.
So for now, we need to, it's too many gatekeepers in American sports.
And you can see it now.
We're losing.
I want to see us get back on top.
Like, I really enjoy the foreigners and foreign players.
I enjoy it, but not at the expense of us.
Give us a shot.
For example, another example.
If an American player goes overseas, only two or three people can play on the team.
If overseas players come to America, you can have a whole team full of overseas players.
That's the maps.
That's what Mark Cuban did.
You could have a whole team full of overseas players.
So now our American players can go overseas and maximize their dollar, right?
Because there's no spot, but they can come over here and make $100 million.
That's kind of like, you know, how the relationship between China and the U.S. with tariffs.
Like, China can come here and do business with everybody, but hey, you know, a lot of our companies can't do business in China.
And, you know, they're not held to the same standards.
I actually text my buddy RFK.
I want to actually, this is a huge, this is a really important issue.
If you love sports, you know, I'm not a, this is an important issue to me where we need to be on an even playing field, right?
So now it's like, this is actually, what do you call it?
Not global, not tourism, diplomacy.
This is, this needs to be brought up.
They got to open the borders in terms of give our American players opportunity to go to China, Japan, Europe, and open it up.
Or now only two players can play on the players.
You're an open border guy?
I'm choking.
I'm going to shut that shit down.
Sports, I know I'm joking with that.
Can I give you another philosophy?
I want to know what you think about this.
Could it be that a lot of American players are way more focused on doing it for the Graham than actually putting in the work?
As an example, there's guys who made it to the NBA or never made it to the NBA, and they've been so focused on social media.
There's a kid named Mikey.
Mikey, you've seen this kid?
No, no.
Mikey Williams, I want to say.
This kid had 5 million Instagram followers before he even made it to college.
This kid.
Oh, yeah.
Ever seen this kid don't?
Bronnie James talk about being coronated before you've done anything.
Right.
You know, there's another kid on Mari Bailey.
A lot of these guys get famous because they can dunk.
They can jump out the gym.
They're getting millions of Instagram followers, but they don't develop a mid-range.
They're not playing D. That's, you know, they're doing the dunk thing, and maybe they're shooting threes.
And by the time they're 18, they're tatted up.
They're just, you know, pseudo-celebrities.
I think this guy's literally in jail right now.
Are you serious?
Find out Mikey Williams, where he's at right now if he gets suspended from a team.
I don't know.
I don't know what happened to him is my point.
And this is a disconnect because it's too many guys.
He avoided jail time after being arrested for firing a gun at a car full of people.
Are you joking?
Okay.
So here's a kid who's been talked about since he's a freshman as being the best player to come out of high school, but now where is he to be found?
How much do you think social media has been an effect on these young kids trying to get to the league?
I think it's been an effect.
I think also they got to lean on the veterans.
There's veterans out there that played this game, myself, others, that can help these young players.
But because there's so much money involved, they detach.
They keep it out, keep you away.
And then they just, you know, nurture these players.
And we can't go in here and help.
We should, us veterans that played, we should be in there.
Hey, young fella, how you doing?
Hey, young fella, how you doing?
So, like I said, it's a culture.
It's a total culture problem in sports that needs to be, and we want to see it get better.
They'll also, this is my opinion, might look at you and say, man, well, you don't know what it's like.
So, for instance, I always find it so shocking.
Mikey, this kid's done nothing.
5 million followers.
Then we have some guy, Steve Francis, one of the greatest point guards I've ever, maybe has like 30,000 Instagram followers.
So don't be fooled by the Graham is what I'm saying.
Yeah, that's true.
I don't know if that correlates to what I'm talking about with the league.
I think it's a very different comparison of combining what I'm saying with what happened with the NBA.
No, no, don't.
I want to see animosity.
I want to see fights.
I want to see confrontation.
I want to see all.
Ron, you know, it's funny.
When was your rookie year?
99?
99.
Rodman retired 2000.
Well, you guys never played against each other.
I'm so pissed at Rodman, man.
The day I was going to play against Rodman, Mark Cuban released him because he got in trouble.
I'm like, Rodman, I can't believe that.
The day you're going to play against him, he released him and you never played against him.
Maybe the day before or something like that.
He got in trouble.
They released him from the Mavs.
And I was just, I was ready to go to the moment.
Who was he to you?
Rodman's my favorite player.
He's my favorite player.
Rodman.
Yeah, like 91.
It's quite a coincidence I got suspended in Detroit where he played at.
But Rodman, I wanted to win a championship that year for Rodman.
Reggie, and then also it was going to be Rodman.
Do you think right now, if the Indiana Pacers win, do you think Reggie deep down, like do you guys, Steven, you, Reggie, deep down inside, do you want to see Pacers win?
Is that right?
No, listen, let me tell you something.
Yes, 100%.
So when they win, we win.
That's how we feel.
We was all at the game yesterday.
We all at the game.
Everybody.
Ow.
The Pacers was in the building.
We got two more games, and we needed to.
You were at the game yesterday?
Yeah, going on.
I came here for you.
I'm leaving tomorrow morning and go back to the NDM.
Dude, if you guys win, this is.
No, we need to win.
We're going to wear it.
Listen, that ring is going to be those players.
If they win it, they don't know how good that's going to feel to us.
We need them to win because then it's just going to validate who we were.
If they don't win, then as an organization, as a collective, you know.
It's a similar style of a team, though.
It's like it's a dogfight.
It's not like if you ask the average person who's the second best player on the Pacers, they have to think about it.
You got to think about it.
You got to think about it.
Carlisle is the guy.
See, don't forget about Rick Carlisle.
This is not taking anything away from the players, but Carlisle's the superstar here.
We have a superstar.
Wow.
And let me tell you what's happening with the game.
Since the game is going back also.
Because the malice at the palace was Carlisle.
It's Carlisle.
Oh, that is so insane.
So fast.
Yeah.
Big.
That is intense to go from there.
By the way, I pulled up some fun facts about you.
Some of these things are pretty crazy.
Okay.
And you tell me if these are true or not.
Okay.
One by one by one.
First one.
Did you really apply to work at Circuit City your rookie year when you're working, when you're playing for the Bulls just to get a discount?
Yeah.
Yes.
And I was a good worker.
How much money were Bulls paying you?
Were they not paying enough to just wasn't that?
Well, if you're getting $999,000 your rookie contract after tax, it's, you know, it's not a lot of money.
It's like anybody that's getting $500,000 a year after tax, they probably still have services, right?
You have services.
You know what I mean?
You're not going to stop working.
Do you see how the perception?
You're like, wow, because I'm in the NBA.
Did they know you're a bull?
Like, when you're going there, like a Chicago Bulls guy made it in the NBA, is working at Circuit City?
Like, what did they say?
Oh, yeah, the guy was like, you serious?
I said, yeah, I want to work at Circuit City after my practices.
How many hours?
How many days did you work there?
How long did you work there?
I did it two days until it got in the media.
And then Jerry Carlos is like, what are you doing working at Circuit City?
I said, Jerry, man, like, I got too much time on my hands.
I need to do it.
You cannot be doing this.
Let me ask the next one here.
So you were 37 with the Lakers to honor Michael Jackson's thriller album that was number one on the billboard for 37 weeks.
Yes or no?
Yes.
True?
Definitely.
So you're a Michael Jackson guy.
Yeah, definitely.
You know, I'm a Michael Jackson guy.
I know he's been through a lot and different things happen, but when you look at songs like Hill the World, Black or White, you know, that type of stuff is like, he really tried to give us all to the world.
And it inspired me as a child to want to be good.
Even like the song with the Dolphin.
What song was that?
Yeah, Heal the World.
Make it a Better Place.
No, The one that was Free Willie.
I was the name of that song.
Like those songs.
Talk into the money.
No, no, that's not it.
Man in the mirror is great.
Will you be there?
Yeah, William Bitter.
Yeah, yeah.
From the movie on the Free Willie.
The Free Willie one.
The Free Willie.
The Free Willie song.
Type in Free Willie song.
I did.
That's what it came out.
That's what came up.
It's a different song.
Maybe that's the one.
You'll be there.
No, that's not it.
That's definitely not it.
I think it was a little bit of a drink.
I'm trying to try to get it.
No, you don't have it, bro.
Don't do it because we're going to get flat.
The dolphin song.
Dolphins.
Maybe it wasn't.
No, the orca.
The orca.
It was the orca.
It was the orca.
Michael Jackson.
Free.
Maybe it's down.
I think that's it.
Okay, so I got another one for you.
Maybe that's the name of it, actually.
I got another one.
Oh, yeah, yeah, Willie.
I think I'm right.
But I forgot that, like, it's not in the hook.
That's the name of the song, but it's not the hook.
Usually the hook is in the song.
Yeah.
So I got another one for you.
Is this true?
You once drank Hennessy at halftime while with the Bulls.
Maybe, maybe not.
Well, you know, so yeah, it was a wild day, wild day.
Was it?
Yeah, it was a wild day.
I was really 21 years old.
I was kind of very reckless at 21 years old.
Still in the NBA.
In the NBA, I was a street mentality guy until I got older.
When I got to Indiana, it was shifting.
I was in therapy.
And then as I got older, it was slowly shifting.
And I was slowly, now I'm just like a nerd.
Completely different.
Transition, yeah.
So the next one here, your dad.
Was your dad a golden gloves boxer and a Navy vet?
My dad was a professional boxer.
He's on boxrec.com.
You type in Ronald Tess with Muhammad Ali and allah.
You'll see my dad at the very bottom, two and one.
He was a great boxer, but then he had me.
He met my mom, and you're typing Ronald Artes.
There you go.
Hey, dad.
There you go.
There you go.
That's cool.
So, you know.
Couldn't even get a picture of him, though.
Let's get something up there.
He got knocked out once.
He's 2-0.
He got knocked out once.
That's cool.
So what happened was.
Have you wait?
What year was that?
1976.
He had me in 79.
So he met my mom in 77, and he just stopped boxing, but he wouldn't have had me.
So he'd be the girl.
Was he teaching you how to fight?
Was he a guy that was like, hey, you got to learn how to defend yourself?
No, so he never.
So I would go with him to the boxing ring sometimes as a kid.
But as I started to learn, he didn't want me boxing.
So he started to hide boxing from me.
He started to hide boxing from me because he didn't want me.
I wanted to be a boxer.
So as he started to hide it, as I got older in the NBA, I said, Dad, I want to box when I retire.
So I was 24 right before the brawl.
I said, Dad, I want to box.
I said, I want to give you four fights.
And he got Angelo Dundee on the phone before Angelo Dundee said, listen, you sure you want to fight?
I said, yeah.
But I said, it's going to take me 10 years because Mike Tyson, it took Mike Tyson about 10, 11 years ago to get to win.
So I said, I'm definitely not doing it now.
I want to do it when I'm 35.
So I was going to train with Angelo, Dundee.
We talked about a lot of different things.
But then the brawl happened.
When the brawl happened, what year he passed away?
2012.
He passed away in 2012.
Okay, yup.
So when the brawl happened, I didn't want to come out and say I was going to fight because I was going to actually come out that year and say I was going to fight.
Bad timing.
Bad timing.
So I just said, yeah.
Were you a tough guy when you were a kid?
Were you a tough guy?
Were you always fighting?
Like, when I talk to Tyson, Mike will say, you know, since he was nine years old, one time he just went like this.
He says, I was afraid to fight.
He says, one time I just went like this, knocked the guy out.
The guy's dad comes and he knocks the dad out at 10, 11 years old, young kid.
But were you like a tough guy?
Were you a fighter from the beginning?
I was and I wasn't.
I think, yeah, I got suspended in pre-K, kindergarten, every year.
Pre-K?
Pre-K.
I got suspended.
I fight in pre-K.
I fight in kindergarten.
You were not a fighter.
If you got suspended in pre-K, who gets suspended?
Yeah, I think I was a fighter.
Yeah.
Who were you in high school?
Of course, you're a star.
You're doing what you're doing in basketball.
You put on the numbers.
But in high school, if they go back classmates, they're in class with you, who would they say Ron was?
High school was different.
I went to an all-boys Catholic school.
So I got suspended my first year, but then not no more after that.
I did get suspended in the ninth grade, but then every year after that, I didn't get suspended.
So then you didn't get in trouble?
No, I was pretty good.
I had a 60, I had a D average my first year at La Salle Academy.
Look at my freshman year, look at my face.
I'm mad.
That's not you.
That's me.
I'm mad for you.
Is that for real?
Mad for no reason.
For no reason.
Is this in Queens?
This is LaSalle Academy, second and second in Manhattan, 2nd Street, and 2nd Avenue.
That summer, that year, was that the same time that the movie He Got Game came out?
Oh, around that time.
I think what year?
Ray Allen.
Ray Allen, Jesus Shuttlesworth.
They had a bunch of different NBAs.
I just watched that movie a couple months ago.
What a great movie.
But this is going on in your city.
They had a bunch of Boston.
It was 1998.
That picture was 93, the one you just saw.
No, I'm saying, but you were in high school in 98, or you just grabbed it.
My dad was in college.
Okay, gotcha.
In St. John's.
By the way, what was it like?
Because I remember in 98 when, you know, what, 97, when Felipe Lopez, right?
They call him the Dominican Jordan, cover of Sports Illustrator.
Like, this guy was supposed to be right.
Yeah, what happened with him?
College, and he comes in, plays a few seasons in the NBA, four, five, six seasons.
What happened to Felipe?
Felipe should have gone to the NBA out of high school because when he went to college, they started double teaming him.
So his stock dropped.
Then sophomore year, they put in more strategies.
So now he should not leave and didn't make the tournament.
Then junior year, playing a little bit better, but now stock has dropped.
Other people are coming.
And then senior year, I get there.
I take him to the tournament for the first time ever.
I get to St. John's, and I bring Felipe to the NCAA tournament.
And he just drafted number 26 in the NBA.
He had a great NBA career, actually, until he got hurt.
He was like a Bruce Bowen, but better offensively.
I mean, he played six years.
He was about to sign a big deal.
Really?
And then he had an ACL tier.
Wow.
So he actually had a good career.
Really?
So you say he had a good career.
He was having a good career.
I mean, but only two points for.
I look at earnings.
Earnings says $600,000 first-year Grizzlies.
Second year, the Wizards, $831.
Third year, Timber Wools, $565.
Fourth year, Timber Wools, $637.
Career total, $2.63 million.
Right.
And after that, because he was a low pick.
He was a first-round pick.
But after that, they were going to sign him because he was playing well.
What was his averages?
This is the averages?
He was averaging... 9-3, rookie year, 4-5, 8-1, 7-4, 2-5.
Ready to...
Career average to the right, far to the right.
5.8 career.
He wasn't getting buckets.
Well, if you look at the year, he was averaging seven.
45% field goal percentage.
3.5, 56%.
I feel like he played in a.
I feel he played longer than that.
Yeah.
But you see him in the playoffs?
Like, you go to the playoffs.
He had four points.
Like, he wasn't the best on those teams, 13 minutes.
So you could do something with that.
Yeah, because you're not getting a lot of volumes.
But how the organization sees it is this guy is a good piece.
So you're not going to get Garnett money, but you can get a million, two, three million.
So they was about to offer him a good deal.
By the way, similar thing happened.
Demarcus Cousins was going to get paid.
He was going to get paid $120 million.
That was a tough one.
He was incredible.
Oh, he was ridiculous.
Did you see what happened with the game?
I did see the video with the fight and what they did.
I don't know if you got that video or not, Rob.
Why is DeMarcus Cousins playing ball in Puerto Rico?
People love the game, man.
If you can't play in the NBA, you try to go overseas.
You try to go to Israel.
I love that.
You try to go to Spain.
I love that.
You'll try to go to Turkey, China, but those are not available.
It's great.
It's such an innocent answer.
People freaking love the game.
Yeah.
Can you play?
Does something happen here?
Yeah, you got to go to the different angle right here.
Yeah, Rob, see if you can do the angle that shows DeMarcus Cousins walking towards the fan.
I don't know if you can find that.
Is this it?
Yeah.
No, no, no, no.
You got to go.
This is the tail.
This is afterwards.
This is the tail.
Anyways.
So he has what happens with him at the game.
Yeah, this is it right here.
Watch this.
So a fan starts talking trash.
He says, what?
Flipping him off.
Yeah.
You can't do that.
Really flipping him off as a fan.
This is where?
This is Puerto Rico.
Wow, flipping him off.
That's insane.
When he comes after him, that isn't.
By the way, I don't know if I've seen fans stepping up and flipping off, you know.
And then they escort him out.
That's when they start pouring beer all over his head, right?
I think he heard that.
I was a big fan of this guy.
I wanted to see him get paid.
I wanted to see him, you know, he had one point.
I think he averaged a season 28-8.
Like, he had a 28-8.
He was incredible.
This part right here.
Here's where it gets ugly.
Now here's where it gets weird.
And now he starts trying to tackle him.
You got to take it.
But what is the line that's drawn between fans talking smack versus no, you just crossed the line, dude.
Now we got.
Now you're talking about Europe.
You're talking about out of America.
This is, I mean, Puerto Rico is obviously, but you're talking about out of the mainland where the rules are different.
I was in Italy and they throw coins at you and batteries when you're going to Europe.
This is normal.
This is like 30 years, 40 years.
They're like soccer fans in a basketball stadium, right?
Exactly.
But what do you think?
Even in America, what do you think is crossing the line?
Because we all know about Smack Talk.
We're talking trash.
You suck.
Right, right, right.
But at what point is like, oh, bro, you say something about my mom.
We're going to have a problem here.
I think back at mama jokes is crossing the line.
I know I got somebody told me my mom is a whore.
I was at a point.
I was so mad.
I was sitting here.
I was in Detroit, actually.
Detroit again.
It was.
But I was like, you know, this is normal.
It's how the fans are.
Your mom is a whore.
I'm like, what?
Oh, I was so ready.
I mean, by the way, you hear stories about Peyton talking about your wife and your girl.
You hear stories about Michael.
I've heard some stories about Michael.
There's some vicious stories about Michael.
Some of these guys are talking about it.
That's player to player, though, right?
Yeah.
I mean, they can take it out on the court player to play the game.
I'm talking about a dude in the third row being like, you ain't, yeah.
I think that's okay.
I think they're crossing the line at a certain point.
If they're just talking, I think just talking is okay.
Really?
I think if you do, I think racial slurs is like, that's like too much.
Of course.
Come on.
But I think everything else, like, you suck.
You know, I think that's okay.
But I think throwing stuff that's crossing.
Didn't LeBron approach a fan or try to get a fan of it?
He did.
He's gotten multiple fans ejected.
But they were saying something about like.
Westbrook did as well.
Westbrook did as well.
But again, Adam, there is touch me, throw stuff at me.
From there on, bro, these are, again, I like to see the element.
You go to UFC fight.
Have you ever been to UFC fight?
Yeah.
Okay, so you go to UFC fight.
Dude, you know what they do at UFC fights?
You know how crazy it is at UFC fights?
It's just boom, boom, boom, you leave.
Insanity energy is ridiculous.
This got a little bit soft.
I hope Ron says this thing's going to come back.
I'm following it this playoff season.
Yeah.
Because finally, it's just guys playing that just love the game and they want to win their first chip.
It's going to be exciting to see what happens.
Last question before we wrap up.
Toughest guy you played against that was feared by everyone during your era.
Who was, and I'm not talking toughest guy like skill set.
I'm talking like a gangster, tough guy in forcer.
You hear stuff about Vernon Maxwell in the 90s.
You hear stuff about some of the other guys from the 80s.
Who was it in your era where it's like these guys were tough?
And our era, I got in 99.
I became a really because I know it was you.
But outside of myself, I think Shaq.
Shaq, Shaq is big, but Shaq was also tough.
I don't think he ever crossed the line, but I think he also had that edge where if you cross the line against Shaq, he'll cross the line too.
Remember his rookie season when he punched Alvin Robinson in the face?
Right, right.
Yeah.
And Alvin Robertson's not a likewig.
He had a quadruple double in the 80s at one point.
Ironically enough, I think that happened again in Detroit.
That's it.
Yeah, this is it.
Well, against this Orlando, but against him.
Have you seen this?
I remember this, Rob.
Yeah, this is nice.
I mean, watch it.
So Lambier's getting like, look, get off of me.
And then Alvin's like.
That was too much.
And look, so Shaq is like, it's okay, but then at the end, look what Alvin does at the end.
Yeah, he was.
Like, that's disrespectful.
He's like, against Shaq.
Oh, man.
And then he's ready to get.
I think he was, I don't know, he must, but Pistons had double-clicked.
He's got to be a tough guy.
Alvin's not backing down, though.
Yeah, Alvin was not backing down.
Dude, like, good for Alvin.
Rob, do you know what?
You're going up against a guy, by the way, you see Scott's still strike.
I'm just killed right there.
You know what the record is?
Scottie.
Most points in the game.
Most assistants.
Most points in a game.
31, I think.
31 or 33.
Still got it.
Still got it.
Wow.
Is that not crazy?
Can you validate that, Rob?
Dennis Scott right there.
And that was from 93, March 30th of 1992.
Dude, that was Shaq.
When was Shaq a rookie?
92 or 93?
92.
I got his rookie card in 92.
So this one's 92nd year.
This is when Pistons were on their way down and the Bulls were on their way up.
Yeah, yeah.
That's right.
Not Rodman, though.
Not Rodman, though.
Everybody else, except for Rodman.
Rodman was something else.
Yep.
Rodman was something else.
Well, Meta, it's been great having you on.
Listen, when I reached out, I sincerely wanted to talk to you.
And it was nothing else.
It wasn't like business.
I just wanted to talk to you because all those years and it reminded me with the game we were at.
I'm like, dude, this guy literally single-handedly.
If you lose to the Celtics, then you lose game seven.
That is so, and at home, that was going to be so embarrassing.
But no, Ron Artis was in the arena, brought it back, and it was great to catch up with you.
Shout out to the Lakers, the Buzz family, you know, the front office, the players.
You know, we love the Lakers.
Los Angeles.
We love y'all.
And hopefully one of these, obviously, you know, Pacers got to do what they got to do.
You guys got a week and a half to go to celebrate.
And I'm sure I'll see you.
If you guys win a championship, I'm sure I'm going to see you on there celebrating with them.
But then the other one we'll celebrate, hopefully, is that the Knicks are going to give you a call.
Yeah, that'll be nice, People.
We're waiting.
My man, appreciate you, brother.
This was great.
Thank you.
Take care, everybody.
Bye-bye.
Bye-bye.
Hey, what's up?
I'm Meta World Peace, the chairman of Artest Management Group.
And now I am officially on Maneck.
I want you to reach out to me.
I got a lot of things to offer, whether you wanted to chat about sports, basketball on the business side, business development, consultation, brand strategy, foreign relations, and more.
