Kamaru Usman: Andrew Tate vs Jake Paul, Conor McGregor's Return to the UFC | PBD Podcast | Ep. 341
Patrick Bet-David, Adam Sosnick, and Vincent Oshana are joined by UFC fighter Kamaru Usman!
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0:33 - Patrick welcomes former UFC Welterweight Champion Kamaru Usman
3:58 - Kamaru discusses what it was like being raised by a Muslim father and a Christian mother
10:49 - Kamaru's relationship with his brother, UFC fighter Mohammed Usman
14:04 - Kamaru discusses getting bullied as a child
19:43 - Are there boundaries for trash talking in the UFC?
26:55 - The importance of having a good product and a good persona in the UFC
34:19 - Will Conor McGregor return to the octagon and fight in the UFC again?
44:49 - How Kamaru handles the highs of winning and lows of losing in the UFC
53:32 - GOATs that Kamaru has run with since becoming a UFC superstar
1:01:36 - Who wins in a fight - Tristan Tate and Andrew Tate vs Jake Paul and Logan Paul
1:20:04 - Who won the Tyson Fury vs Francis Ngannou fight and the greatest boxers of all time
1:27:04 - Did Francis Ngannou make the right move leaving UFC for boxing
1:31:15 - Kamaru dishes on the hardest hitters in the UFC
1:33:52 - Kamaru discusses what it was like being knocked out by Leon Edwards
1:37:26 - Maintaining a work-life balance as a UFC fighter
1:41:49 - Who wins in a UFC fight - Donald Trump vs Joe Biden
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Patrick Bet-David is the founder and CEO of Valuetainment Media. He is the author of the #1 Wall Street Journal Bestseller “Your Next Five Moves” (Simon & Schuster) and a father of 2 boys and 2 girls. He currently resides in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.
Yeah, why would you bet on Goliath when we got Bet David?
Value came in, giving values contagious.
This world of entrepreneurs, we get no value to hate it.
Howdy, running, homie, look what I become.
I'm the one.
He was right around the time of Garnett.
Okay, episode 341, special guest today, Kamaru Usman.
Some call him Marty.
Some call him the Nigerian nightmare.
Very, one of the most exciting fighters I've seen fight over the last few years.
And it's great to have you on the podcast, man.
Thank you.
Thank you.
How you feeling?
How you doing?
Good.
Good.
Yeah.
So we just, obviously, we just had this recent card, and Edwards went against Kobe.
And I know you had a very interesting exchange with Cormier where you're giving him perspectives on who you think was going to win the fight.
And it was very, very interesting how you guys were having a debate, the exchange.
And you're like, no, I'm telling you, I think this is what's going to happen.
The challenge of being off and the cardio, the role it plays, et cetera, et cetera.
You were being very matter of fact.
And I had a couple questions for you, which we'll get into is at what level is does shit talking cross the line?
Like, is there a limit in it, which we'll get into that?
But aside from that, first things first, Nigerian nightmare.
Where did that nickname start?
That happens to be just a nickname that I always heard as a child growing up.
And it was kind of a nickname that just every athlete that was just, I guess, more than exceptional in their field, that's a nickname you wanted.
If you're Nigerian-born, that's the nickname you wanted.
It was just, it's, it was like a pride flag that we just carried everywhere because you wanted them to know that you were a nightmare in your sport.
And so there's been multiple Nigerian nightmares.
There's been, you know, soccer players that were Nigerian nightmare.
Who are the famous Nigerian nightmares?
Christian Okoyen, American football.
He was a Nigerian nightmare.
Everyone knew what a nightmare.
Kansas City Chiefs.
Everybody knew what a nightmare he was to tackle.
Samuel Peters, WBC heavyweight champion of the world, boxing.
You know, a lot of people don't know that name because he didn't hold a title for very, very long.
But yeah, he was a nightmare, you know, to deal with.
And so there have been a few Nigerian nightmares, but these are some of the athletes that I grew up watching.
And it was just a name that it was just like, if I ever got an opportunity to carry that flag and represent that name, I want it.
But then, you know, I was wrestling and wrestling.
It's not, you know, not as mainstream enough to where you get to really use that name.
And then I got into fighting.
I'm like, oh man, this is a perfect opportunity.
Take it.
So I took it right away.
But the thing, the biggest thing about it is you've got to live up to it.
And so, you know, you're starting out and you're just thinking, oh, okay, I just need to win a fight.
Maybe win the next fight.
The next thing you know, it's like, hey, I'm not doing too bad at this.
Maybe I've got something here.
Now, you know, the world knows that name.
And it's like, oh, yeah, I did it.
Definitely did it justice.
That's a good point.
So, Vinny, who is the Assyrian or the Jewish nightmare?
Who would you like to do?
I mean, like the Armenian assassin.
I don't even know who.
I don't know.
I don't know if the nightmare goes.
I think the assassin goes.
Assassin.
The Assyrian or the Armenian assassin.
You're like the dream.
I don't know if he's a cute.
I don't know.
I don't know what the ass here.
I know the Jewish nightmare would be Sasha Baron Cohen.
That's who it is.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
It's like, oh, shit.
He's here.
You mess around with that guy.
Find out.
So everybody's got it.
We had Nganu here in Francis, and he's telling a story.
And what a crazy story he's got, right?
And for you, your story is also an interesting one.
Who you grew up with, your father, your mother.
I think your father is a Muslim, your mother, Christian.
You're growing up in that environment.
And your dad, I believe, was a pharmacist.
And you told a story one time to Mike about how he would get angry.
He would get upset with Mike Tyson, where you guys are watching a fight.
And let me go get a beer or a drink.
And he comes back, the fight's over.
He's pissed off.
What the hell is going on here?
Tell us a little bit about the upbringing of Kamaru Usman and then how that led into fighting.
Yeah, it was just great.
You know, I knew my mom and dad, you know, something that, you know, a lot of kids nowadays don't necessarily get that pleasure of being around a two-parent household or having both parents in their lives.
But grew up with mom and dad and it was great.
I never, you know, when you're a kid, you just, you don't know what you don't know.
You're just living life.
And my father's Muslim, mom's a Christian.
Never an argument, never a problem.
Really?
Never a problem about religion.
Not once.
You know, the boys, it was three boys growing up, you know, for a while.
The boys just, we did what dad did.
We went, you know, went to the mosque.
We were raised that way.
And then we immigrated here to the States where my mom would go to church on Sundays.
And after a while, I think it just became one of those, because here, you know, American, you know, Sundays, I said, that's football day.
You know, I think it kind of got to a point where that's time for us to, all right, go with your mom, disappear for a couple hours.
You know, dad potentially gets to just be home by himself.
So that was never, it wasn't an issue for us to go to church with her.
So, you know, gradually we started going to church and now we're introduced to a whole nother, you know, religion and all of that.
Even though it's, it's a different religion, there's so many similarities to where I think it was absolutely just the best way because now as an adult, I have, you know, I have that mindset to be able to make an informed decision for myself of if I want to be a Muslim or a Christian or respect both, which is, I have great respect for both religions.
So that was just special to me now looking back and seeing what my parents did at that time.
No doubt about it.
Yeah, which I'm sure that it wasn't planned, but which they're like they say, there's no, you know, handbook to parenting, but it just worked out amazingly.
And remember, you know, my father's, we used to go to the fights growing up.
And, you know, Tyson was that guy that every, of course, is Mike Tyson.
And my dad loved to have fight parties.
So he would have a fight party and all his friends are there.
And we're just kids.
So kids aren't necessarily allowed in the living room.
But of course, we knew what was going on and we wanted to see what was going on too.
And there was one particular that I remembered.
I think it was, I can't remember what fight it was, but it was, I mean, like most Tyson fights very quick.
And so, you know, things are going on.
We're waiting for, you know, things to happen.
And the last fight before Cole Main was done.
And then I was Tyson.
He's walking out.
And my dad's like, oh, he's walking out.
And everything's all right.
Let me run in the garage and grab a beer because, you know, we have that.
You know, you have that.
You have to have that backup fridge in the garage.
Extra beers go back there.
We all know that.
So he goes in, let's get, get some drinks for his buddy because my dad loves to entertain.
And on his way back, he hears screaming.
He runs in the garage.
What happened?
What happened?
Fight's over.
Oh, man.
Oh, my dad's pissed.
Like most people were back then, because, you know, when you pay that, what was it, $39.99 back then for a Tyson fight and it's over?
Yeah, most people were pissed.
He pissed off a lot of people, Mike Tyson, those first-round knockouts, 10-second knockouts sometimes.
Back to your father, because you were talking about you're a father now, right?
You have one.
I have one daughter.
You have one daughter.
Who was the leader in your household growing up?
Because you seem to be like probably the leader in your household.
Your father's Muslim.
Your mother's Christian.
Who was the leader in the family?
What's the role of the father?
How are you embracing what your father taught you, what your mother taught you, and bringing that into your child's life?
My father, of course.
I come from a traditional family.
I was raised around that.
I saw that growing up, and that's how it always worked, you know.
And my father's, you know, the leader.
My father goes out and I guess what they, you know, if you want to bring him back in the primal days, you know, goes out and kills the meat and drags it back and feeds the family.
And my mom was, her role was so important because if the father's not at home and the kids are starting to grow and they're maturing, there's got to be someone that has that level of understanding and respect for what the father's doing outside that's rearing these children at home and letting them know that's what your father's doing.
That's how important what your father's doing is to what we do here and keeping the kids in line as far as raising them and helping them grow and understand that as well.
Because if that's not there, the father could be out, you know, accumulating or doing whatever he needs to do.
But if that respect is not being built and cultivated at home, the kids aren't going to respect what you're doing out there.
They don't care because kids don't care.
You can have all the money in the world, but if you're never there, kids don't care.
What would your mother say to edify your father?
So when he got home, there was respect.
What would your father say to you guys to respect your mother?
How did that all work?
I mean, my father didn't have to say much.
He knew.
Yeah, you're not going to disrespect mom.
Strong person.
Yeah, my dad was a major in the Nigerian army before coming here.
And then he was also in the military here and then became a pharmacist in the military.
So both countries he served.
Yeah.
Oh, wow.
And so my dad was just that military kind of guy, you know, and didn't really laugh much.
Not for me as a kid growing up.
You know, it seemed like he was always just stoneface.
But, you know, looking back at it, it was just lessons and lessons that you don't realize until you become an adult yourself.
But raising three boys, I'm sure, wasn't the easiest.
I bet.
I can only.
And by the way, your brothers, are all three fighters or what do the other two?
No, my oldest brother, Dr. Cashitu Usman, is a doctor in pharmacy, and he was a soccer player.
So he played in college and played semi-pro until he decided to go back to school and become a pharmacist.
So that's what he's doing now.
And now branching off and getting into the business world as well and into real estate development.
My younger brother was a football player who he's the bigger one.
And he played at University of Houston, then played, finished up at the University of Arizona.
And just, you know, had his bounced around some pro teams a little bit and then decided that he wanted to start fighting.
So now he's also in the UFC.
Oh, really?
Oh, wow.
So he's slowly building his own resume.
What position in football and what weight class in fighting now?
He was a defensive end.
Oh, big boy.
So defensive and linebacker.
So he was one of those in-between guys.
He's about, I think maybe 250, about 6'3, I think.
He was fast.
And he was one of those, you know, headfirst kind of guy.
That's your.
So, yeah.
So he had the speed to get around, guys.
So he could either put his hand down or run around.
He's a heavyweight.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, he's a heavyweight.
I'm sure he's a heavyweight.
But he's also a tweener.
He could, obviously, if there was a 220 weight class, that's where he would be.
But he fights at about now when he's really physically fit and in shape.
He's probably about 235.
And you guys train together?
What's that relationship like now?
Not really.
You're not trying to mess on your brother.
He's not trying to mess with you.
No, it's, of course, we could.
Like, I'm still a big brother, and I'm skilled in being able to handle myself.
But obviously, he's growing and he's getting better.
And so when he gets to a point where he has as much knowledge as I have, then it's going to be a problem.
Were you ever bullied when you were younger?
And what was the moment where you were like, okay, I'm nasty at fighting?
I want you to hold that thought.
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Question.
Vinny's asking a question.
Yeah, because I mean, not everybody gets bullied, but there are some people that get bullied that get pushed to fight.
Were you bullied, Kamar?
Who was it?
Who was like that main enemy?
And then what was the moment in your life where you're like, yo, I got hands.
I could fight.
I wouldn't say, I mean, it's, I guess the term bullying and what we kind of see that as is, you know, just day-to-day continuous.
A kid gets belittled and things like that.
I mean, to an extent, growing up, especially going to public school, well, I guess any school, you know, there's a little bit of bullying that happens.
But for me, looking back at it, it's almost almost kind of character building.
You know, you're going to have those kids that are just, you know, that are just want to be punks.
And so I had a little share of that, but I wouldn't say I was just oddballed to the point where, you know, I felt like there had to be something done.
But I got into a couple of little scraps back in grade school because when we immigrated here, I think I started the school system in fourth grade.
Arlington, Texas.
Yeah, in Arlington, Texas.
So starting in fourth grade, now kids are fourth grade.
Kids are cruel and kids are smart.
And English isn't necessarily my first language.
So now you talk a little different.
You have a little bit of an accent and kids know you're not from here.
And so, of course, kids poke fun of you and do certain things to kind of make you feel a certain way.
So I had a little bit of that.
You know, I was always somewhat able to blend in with the crowd and be okay.
But I had a couple scraps growing up.
Gotcha.
And I didn't really, I wasn't a fighter.
I didn't really, I did with my brothers.
I was.
Oh, Detroit.
These three boys.
Don't get me.
We're going to scrap.
Non-stop.
Yeah.
PBD.
You have to tell your story about me and my little brother.
I understand.
Go ahead.
You're saying.
Especially me and my little brother.
We scrapped all the time.
All the time.
What's the age gap between the two of you?
We're about two years apart.
I think he's 34.
Yeah, so we're all two years apart.
So, yeah, that we always scrapped.
And I was just something I took from because my dad was kind of a no-nonsense kind of guy.
And so I was kind of that way as well, especially with my little brother.
I couldn't deal with him being disrespectful.
So if he told me to shut up at any point, oh, that was disrespect.
Oh, we had to scrap.
And so we fought for a long, long time.
By the way, I think that's super healthy.
Yeah, it has to be.
It's not like you have beef with your brother, but like growing up, getting tough, knowing when you know, stepping on boundaries, you know, keeping it real goes wrong.
I think it's an advantage.
I think if you're raised with a young, with a brother that's the same age as you, you have an advantage in school when fights break out because you're accustomed to fighting 50, 100, 200 times with your brother.
And if a boy is raised with a sister only, you don't have a brother, you don't have somebody to fight.
So then the first time it happens, it's the first actual fight you're having.
So my kids, my two boys, they're a year and a half apart.
The other day I come home and we're packing to go to Arizona.
Christmas, they're packing all this stuff.
So, anyways, they find these snow gloves, right?
You know, so Dylan puts the gloves on.
He puts his beanie on.
They're thinking this is gear.
So they come into the bedroom and they start going at it, right?
And then the first one throws a kick.
Now, these guys have been doing jiu-jitsu for two and a half years.
So the first one throws a kid, a kick.
And then, next thing you know, Dylan throws this vicious kick.
The whole back is red.
The younger kicks the older one.
Now it's an official brawl.
Oh, God.
No.
It's a brawl.
Jennifer comes out.
What's going on?
I said, babe, this is a good fight.
That pay-per-view.
You went to be in the paper and you came back and it was done.
It was a good fight.
And they're like, Dad, Dad, hey, can we get a ring and get other people to come and watch us fight?
I want others to see.
I said, we're not doing that, bro.
This is not going to be like a Michael Vicks story.
Patrick David sells tickets.
So that part coming up with.
Hold on.
But then the end of the story when Dylan kicked you, I thought.
Yeah.
So then I said, Dylan, I want to see how your kick feels.
Oh, great.
Line up.
I said, go, kick the side.
I just want to know how it feels.
It did not feel good.
I have to tell you.
He's there.
He's going to kick you.
I want you to feel it.
I understand.
And come on.
The first time I hung out with them on the boat, he's like, Yeah, go wrestle with Uncle Vinny.
One of them has me in a troco, and I'm like, I'm getting there.
And then the other one grabs his wrist and is pulling it.
And I'm going.
And I just see him laughing, going, like, you good?
And I was like, nah, they're strong, dude.
It's about the age when it gets annoying.
The next two years at 14 years old, I don't want to get kicked.
How old are they?
They're 10 and 12.
10 and 12.
10 and 11.
10 and 11.
Yeah.
And it's fun when they're.
So we fight.
We do wrestling and we fight two and one against me.
I still have them, but it's getting annoying.
It's getting annoying.
He might need you to be a tag team over there against the two boys, bro.
I'll stay on this side.
But let's continue.
So let's talk about this recent fight, Kobe and Leon that took place.
You fought Leon a couple times, and maybe we'll come back to the fights you've had with Leon.
But to me, when I'm hearing what he's saying, you know, hey, the comment he makes about his father and, you know, here's what's going to happen when we're going to go to hell and you're going to do this.
And then Sean Strickland comes out and Strickland says what he says about Kobe.
He had some choice words.
I don't know if you heard what Sean said about Kobe.
Where is the limit?
Is there a limit of where you can go?
Will Dana ever get in and say, dude, leave the wives and the father and the family alone?
Or in the fight world, there is no limits?
Well, I don't think that's Dan's job.
You know, Dan is a promoter.
And so his job is to promote the fights.
You know, he has a whole company that he's looking out for.
And this is fight sports.
I mean, it's very difficult to tell two grown men, hey, don't say that about this.
You know, I mean, this is not scripted.
You know, this is as the motto is, is as real as it gets.
And so, obviously, you know, me being the man that I am and growing up the way that I grew up, I understand that there's a limit to certain things.
There's certain boundaries and certain lines that we just don't cross.
And I think that goes into just upbringing and the respect factor of just growing up in life.
We understand that there's certain things that you just don't do.
Just like, you know, I believe in war, you know, wars wage with men.
Men wage wars.
You know, it's very difficult to start attacking women and children.
That just has never been a thing that men do.
You know, if I have conflict with that side, okay, I signed, like when they say sign up for war, it's men that sign up.
We sign up and we go defend.
And so the same thing with what we're doing, because in a way, we're waging war with one another.
And so when we do these things, you kind of, you know, that's what men do.
We leave those out because it's between us.
We have to step in there and we have to take care of whatever we say we're going to do.
And so nowadays, it's, you know, we're in this weird times, a society to where it's, everybody wants to be seen.
Everybody wants to be heard.
And we're just, it's information overload.
You know, everyone, we have these mics, we have these phones, we have these things that just, we all want to just be out there.
And so people just, they're willing to say or do anything, whether it's men, whether it's women, they're willing to do and say anything just to be seen.
And these guys are just kind of being lost in that to where they just, I'm not going to be seen if I don't say this or cross that line or do this.
For me, I just, I've never been that kind of guy.
And I guess that's kind of been a knock on me.
Some people didn't like the fact that, you know, when I'm dominating everyone, I'm not belittling them.
I'm not, you know, saying this or saying that.
You know, and McGregor was the same way.
McGregor came out.
Well, not the same way as me, but when he came out, he was doing the same things.
There wasn't a line.
The energy is what you're talking about.
Yeah, there wasn't a line that McGregor wasn't willing to cross.
And we saw where that got him.
You know, Gregor's probably one of the most famous mixed martial arts fighters ever.
No doubt.
And so with that, you have all these young kids now looking at that and going, oh, yeah, I can just say and do whatever I want to do.
That's going to make me famous.
I think about this because I see, you know, how the saying styles makes fights.
And if anyone knows this, this is your world.
You know this.
You guys understand what it means when styles make fights.
But do you think personalities self-fight?
So does it kind of go to, you know, a Connor comes in.
I don't remember him being that loud at the beginning.
I don't know, like the first couple of fights.
And then all of a sudden he's like, he was louder and louder and louder.
You just didn't, you know, he was loud.
So just a story.
Give a story behind the scenes, like how loud the light wasn't on.
Oh, I got you.
So that's, I guess that's kind of how algorithm of what the social media is: is you're loud, but if not enough people are paying attention right away, then it doesn't seem that loud.
That's a good point.
But as soon as more people are paying attention, what happens?
More people start turning, they start putting the camera on you more and So more and more people start to see you, and it starts to grow and grow and get louder and louder.
Yeah, he was, he was, he's been that guy.
He's been, he's been your first interaction with him.
Connor, I was actually, my interaction actually with him has not been many.
I don't think, have we had a couple, but not many.
I actually was at his first ever UFC fight.
His first ever UFC fight, but I wasn't in the UFC at that point.
I was cornering a, I was cornering a friend of mine, Michael Johnson, in Stockholm, Sweden.
Doesn't he live here, Michael Johnson?
Yeah, Michael Johnson.
I had lunch at the house a month ago.
Yeah.
Real nice guy.
Yeah.
So I was, Michael Johnson was fighting in Stockholm, Sweden, and I was cornering him.
And I was one of his main training partners at the time.
So I'm cornering Michael Johnson.
And there's this guy.
I didn't really know too many guys on the card at that time in the UFC, but there's this guy, Irish guy.
But I knew who he was fighting, a kid named Marcus Brimage, who had trained with us a little bit.
And so they get in the fight.
And I'm just like, okay, I know Marcus Brimage.
I know he's a talented guy, very tough guy.
And who's this guy fighting?
And then Marcus told us, oh, it's this young guy that their UFC's promoting, they're pushing and this and that.
And I never heard of him.
I'm like, oh, okay.
And I see this, you know, little, you know, slim guy there at the time.
And so they get in, and this, this Irish guy, and they're fighting.
And I'm like, whoa, he's not bad.
He's actually really good.
And yeah.
And look what he looks like.
He's 24.
Nothing.
Slim, skinny, sucked down, 145 pounds.
And goes out there and makes it look flawless.
And he's just brash.
And he gets on the mic and he was good on the mic.
Real good.
And I was like, it's not bad.
But I've seen plenty of fighters come and go and come in hot and go.
But it's after that, I think maybe one more fight.
And then he had like a whole series on Fox, you know, like a two or three part series on Fox.
So now we're starting to see him on this side of the world.
And so it just grew and grew and grew.
And, you know, he was just a guy that was at the right place, right time, that knew how to capitalize on the opportunity.
And then have Ireland on your back.
One of the only, like, I mean, for UFC, to me, he was like, he just put them on his back.
And then UFC embedded.
And then with Jose Aldo.
And then that was it, bro.
That was just.
And Usman.
Follow up to Pat's question about personality and persona.
So your younger brother's just getting started in the UFC, right?
So I'm going to use it as a case example.
So in business, you have two major elements, right?
You have the product, then you have the marketing.
So your brother's just getting started, or any young fighter that's getting started.
How do you balance the product, being a good fighter, actually having the skills with the marketing, right?
Like you see like Patty the Batty Pimblet, another Irish guy.
I mean, I can't look away from that guy, right?
Connor, for instance, or even Colby, right?
But there's other guys that are just straight, great products, right?
Adesania, yourself, whoever you want to put, Nagano.
What advice would you give your brother as far as the product versus the marketing?
Well, I mean, it's tough nowadays.
It's really tough because the lines are blurred.
They've been blurred.
And so I think all these guys are struggling with finding an identity or where they want to be because you can't, your bark can't be louder than your bike.
And so that's what you're seeing now.
That's what we saw this last weekend.
You know, it can't be that way.
With Kobe, I mean.
Yeah.
You know, but and I think, you know, my, my, my brother is kind of struggling with that, you know, in a bit because I know my brother.
I know the things that make him great.
I know the qualities that make him great, make him likable and make him funny, the things that, that he does that make him, you know, make him an interesting character.
But him, in his head, I don't think he sees it that way the way that I, because I guess they would say it's an eye of the beholder.
I don't, I don't, he doesn't see himself the way that I see him.
That way I know the world would see.
That makes sense.
And so he might not necessarily want to put that side of him out for the world to see.
But even though I think and I know now that that might equate to dollars, he might not agree to that.
He might not see it that way.
And so especially the cameras are a very powerful thing.
Once the camera's in your face, boom, it changes a lot.
You know, people change.
Some people come on and some people go on a show.
And I think a lot of people are struggling with that, especially as fighters, because now not only are you just a fighter, you have to be an entertainer as well.
And for me, I think it was a little easier because we were still growing into this social media age.
And to where I just wanted, and for me, I didn't care about being famous when I came in.
It wasn't about being famous.
It was just about competing, being great at something.
And of course, having a couple of dollars in my pocket.
Who do you think does it the best?
Meaning has the bark and has the bite and does it today or all time?
Today and all time.
It has it all.
The showmanship, but also the skills to pay the bill.
In mixed martial arts or just fight sports in your world, in the UFC world?
In my world, I mean, it has to be, it has to be Connor, you know, for it has to be Connor because we had never really seen it go to that level.
Because, I mean, we saw a little bit with Chale, but, you know, as much as I love Chao, there was just certain, Chill was just kind of handicapped in certain ways.
He wasn't as excellent of a striker as Connor was.
And at the end of the day, people will love to see you knock somebody out because that's just, as far as men, that's something that we, you know, you have a problem with the neighbor down the street.
You wish you can just walk down there and knock him out.
So we love to see that.
And Connor was in a position where he was doing that.
He was able to say, I'm going to knock you out and goes out there and actually gets to knock him out.
He picks the rounds, right?
Yeah.
And so that was something that was so appealing by him.
And he was just, it was great.
Everything was just, he was at the right place, right time in society where he had that accent to that funny little accent to where it's.
Yeah, the world loves accents.
We love them.
And so that it was just the perfect combination.
And at the time where he was really on top, I think, you know, Connor, I would say.
Who's doing it the best now?
Honestly, I don't know.
I'm kind of pulled away, you know, from that.
But if I would say, who's doing it the best now?
Honestly, I'm going through the weight classes.
I don't know.
I would say Israel was doing great, but, you know, he's not necessarily Israel is a showman, but I would say, I don't know.
Honestly, right now, I don't really know.
I don't know a guy that's really delivering like that to say, you know what, I'm going to stop this guy this round.
And this is how I'm going to do it.
And go out there and actually risk it and do it.
Because what we do is so difficult.
You know, it looks easier on TV, but it's so difficult once you're in there, you realize I'm really trapped in a cage.
Are there any guys that you're like, okay, so let's just say Patty, or are there anybody where it's like, this guy has a shot, that guy has a shot, or not really anybody coming up?
No, there's some guys coming up, but that the personality might not be there yet.
You know, there's Hamza Shamaev.
I think he plays the role very, very well of villain.
Yeah, everyone's just, yeah, everyone's just, you know, scared of his presence of what he is.
He's a beast.
Yeah.
And so he kind of embodies that, you know, and of course he has his accent too.
And it comes in, I'm going to kill everybody.
You know, so it's, it's kind of, you know, appealing to where people want to hear more.
So he's, he's, he's, he's a good, really good fighter.
Um, there's a guy that's actually fighting for the Featherweight Championship, Ilya Tapuria.
And he's, uh, I think he's from Spain.
He's a Spanish guy, but a good-looking kid, um, can fight, you know, can fight, can deliver a great fight, stand-up fight, can wrestle, you know, decently well.
He's a mixed martial artist, and I think he has the potential to be a star because he, he, he has all the components.
Good-looking guy, can fight, you know, the way that people want to see him fight.
So 26.
Yeah, and um, he just has all the component components to where he could be a star.
Oh, Sean O'Malley, yeah, sugar sean sugar Sean O'Malley, I think is uh, he's doing a really good job of just kind of branding and good putting stuff there.
He's a good talker, yeah, good talker, and he can fight.
And Adam, not to correct, but I mean, I have to, because you know, people are going to talk crap.
Uh, Patty the Batty, he's not Irish, he's from England, actually, but that accent is crazy.
That accent, you're gonna be dirt just to throw that out there because I know people are like, What is he talking about?
That accent is so hard from where he fuck you up for that.
What the fuck?
You know, no, yeah, it's different because he's um, I think it's he's just it's a scouser accent, yeah, crazy.
It's uh, what was the movie Snatch for with Brad Pitt when he didn't understand anything?
Yeah, you have to understand a word he was saying that guy, Richie.
Yeah, he's entertaining as hell, bro.
But he's doing, yeah, and he's doing, he just won, he just won.
He just won, yeah.
He's, he's he's getting there, but it's, it's um, to really see that ascension that that Connor got, you got to fight in a particular sort of way, you know.
Of course, mixed martial mixed martial arts is still growing.
It's still, the world doesn't exactly understand the intricate details of what we're doing.
You take a guy down and you're working for submissions, the world doesn't necessarily understand that.
The world still understands two men standing, slugging it out.
They understand that you have a problem.
Yeah, this is how we do it.
And so, Connor was that guy to where Connor didn't necessarily want to be grappling and doing all that.
He knew how to grapple, but he didn't necessarily want to be there.
He wanted to throw fisticuffs and get you out of there.
And that's what I think was.
What are the chances he makes a comeback?
You see how massive.
I was just going to say that.
Come on.
You know, he lost in 2021.
He fractured his leg everywhere.
So I couldn't even watch it.
And I mean, if you can't deny it, if you see before and after, right now, he's thicker, like Adam said.
His facial structure is changing.
I mean, I get it.
When you're that rich and you get the top-notch, you know, recovery and all that stuff.
But do you like, is there any hormone or growth or something?
Because I know you have to be taking stuff to heal that bone.
And he healed pretty fast.
You think that there's anything?
I don't want to.
The thing is, I don't want to speculate, but I mean, When you pull, it's kind of difficult when you pull yourself out of the testing pool and then, you know, now I'm going to make a comeback and you go jump back in.
You know, it raises a lot of eyebrows.
But I don't want to speculate on what he's doing or not.
But I do think if he does, which he will fight, I think it seems like he's going to fight again.
He does fight.
I think, I mean, it's going to be big, big news.
Everyone's going to watch it because he's just that big of a star.
He's gotten himself to that point.
Do you think he goes with an EZW or a challenging guy?
That's the thing with mixed martial arts.
There's no such thing as an EZW.
This is literally the sport where anything can happen at any time.
There's no such thing as an easy fight.
You can think this is easy fight, but even the guy on the street has a puncher's chance.
He connects at the right time.
Guess what?
You're waking up asking what happened.
So there's no such thing as an easy fight.
For Connor, I just don't think I do think he makes a comeback.
He might win fights here and there, you know, but I just don't see him becoming a champion again because it's a different mindset to be there.
And it's very, very tough to plug in to that.
And was he supposed to fight?
Him and Chandler were building up, weren't they?
Come on, that's why, though.
It's because the power of broke, when you're hungry, coming up, you're salivating in getting your shot.
And then when you make a few hundred million dollars, the fire to want to get up early, train the distractions.
I got to go do a photo shoot.
I got to go have dinner with this guy.
I got to go do this.
Celebrities are calling you to get away.
And at the beginning, no celebrity is calling you.
You're just kind of like, you have plenty of time to train.
Yeah, it's all of that.
It's a combination of all of that.
And what it boils down to is the commitment that it takes.
When you're on the way up, there's only one direction you're looking.
And that's just where I want to get to.
If your goal is, I want to make a million dollars.
And that's all you're focused on.
And in order for me to get there, I need that belt.
I need that belt.
I need that belt.
That's all you think about.
That's all you focus about.
So subconsciously, it just becomes your whole, that's what you fixated on.
That's where you're going.
That's where you're going.
And you could have bumps in the road, things that kind of, you know, slow you down, but you're looking one way.
The whole time you're plugged in.
You know, the light might dim here and there, but you're plugged in the whole time and you're getting up there.
But when you get there, now different things that you didn't expect, responsibilities are there.
Because all on the ride up, all you have is time to train.
No one's calling you.
No one's, you know, you don't have to go to New York and promote this fight or do this and that.
And you're there for two, three days, which as two, three days out of training.
So all you're doing is you're doing all these things and you don't realize you are truly separating yourself from the pack because you're so plugged in with what you're doing.
But then once you get there, those two, three days were two, three days that when you put in, you know, and your mind knows in the back of your head, I put those extra two, three days in.
These guys can't touch me.
I'm better than everybody.
It subconsciously creates that identity.
And so when you don't have that or you're pulled this way and that way and this way and that way, the world is catching up because everyone, there's guys that are looking up to that position and they're coming up.
They're still moving.
But now your progression is not as fast as it was.
It's slowly starting to dim down.
So they're starting to catch up a little bit and catch up a little bit.
But then, boom, something happens.
And when you're up there, the only way to go is down.
You go down a bit.
And now having to plug back in, that's the conflict because now you know what it took to get there.
You know the level of commitment that that was.
You knew that you were getting up at 6 a.m., running extra when you didn't really need to and you didn't have to, but you just, on the right up, you were just like, yeah, this might help me.
I'm going to do it because it might help me.
But now you just woke up in silk sheets.
You're like, ah, you know, I'm good.
I'm good.
I'm just going to go to the 10 a.m. training.
That's good.
I don't need to run at 6 a.m.
I'll go to the 10 a.m. training.
So when you're doing all that, you know, everyone's starting to catch up.
Now it makes it difficult.
Like, do I plug back in?
How do I can I plug back in?
So that decision to plug back in to be able to get back up there, that's very difficult to do when you don't have those, you know, you're not hungry.
You know, you had steak last night.
You know, then what do you, what do I want to eat tomorrow?
I can eat anything I want.
Or when you didn't have it, it's like, I would love steak and surfing turf.
You're eating ramen noodles at that point.
It's like, so the decision to be able to plug back in, I think it's going to be, I think he's battle.
I don't think I know he's battling with.
Like, how do I become that guy again?
How important is age?
Because you guys are pretty similar age.
I think he's one year younger than you.
You're 36.
He's 35.
Yeah.
How much does age, I mean, we've seen Tom Brady playing until he's 45.
We see 40s, LeBron's about to be 40.
The 40 number isn't as big of a deal as it was a couple generations ago or even last generation.
You're 35, he's 36.
How much does age play a factor in that comeback, so to speak?
Oh, definitely played a factor.
I mean, we're not Tom Brady.
We don't have 350-pound guys protecting us and we're just throwing a ball.
You know, not to say that that's not hard.
That's extremely difficult.
And I mean, what Tom Brady's done is IQ, being able to break down defenses.
And, you know, he's a goat in this sport.
But we are literally breaking our bodies all day, every day.
And, you know, yes, the world only gets to see us for that 25 minutes while we're up there, but they don't see the five months that we put in to get there.
That's even more difficult.
That 25 minutes is just the fun part.
You know, that's the fun part that you guys just get to see.
That's not what kills us.
That's not what breaks our bodies.
It's the months and months and weeks and weeks of practice that we're putting in twice a day.
Some guys getting it three a day.
You're lifting, you're grappling, and you're sparring, and you're doing this.
So it's all of that.
At the end of the day, the one thing that doesn't change is evolution.
It's not just evolution.
It's time.
As a human being, this is what has been created is you're born, you age, and then your body deteriorates and you pass.
That's going to happen.
That hasn't stopped.
That's not going to stop until we, I mean, unless someone creates a magical pill that just stops all of that.
But yeah, age plays a factor.
What Rogan said about your body was wild.
I'm sure you heard what he had to say famously.
He's like, dude, this guy's an absolute savage.
He's a beast, but his knees are all messed up.
He has to walk on the grass, not the sidewalk.
Sometimes you have to walk downstairs backwards, is what all Rogan said.
But he goes, it's all about his mindset.
Physically, he's messed up, but mentally, he's top-notch.
How do you, how does that all work?
Yeah, I mean, I did that for years.
Funny, I was like, man, I've been doing this for years.
I was walking down backwards to where I can close my eyes in the middle of the night, dark, and just walk downstairs backwards without grabbing the railing.
Like moonwalking, Michael Jackson out here.
I got so good at it.
Because of the pain.
It was.
Initially, it was because I was just like, you know what?
Let me try this.
Because I had a microfracture surgery in 2015.
And that's because I had no cartilage in that knee.
And it was just, they were bone on bone.
And it just creates so much arthritis.
And just, it was just so painful just walking.
And I just always felt like it was just loose bodies and things in there.
And so I was like, let me try going down backwards one day.
And I went and it just kind of relieved the pain of, you know, coming down.
I'm like, oh, start trying that.
So I just started doing that everywhere.
And it just became part of walking back.
I'm just backwards, coming downstairs, backwards.
But I think last year I started coming back.
I started walking normally again because I realized that what it did over time, because when you come down the stairs a certain way or go up the stairs a certain way, it does build muscle in a certain way.
It builds your legs in a certain way.
Cornerback training, going back.
Yeah.
Safety.
It builds, it builds a different type of conditioning.
And I was just like, wait, I've been doing this for years now.
Maybe we, I didn't, you know, wasn't the greatest thing for me.
And so now, but the pain level is not where it used to be anymore.
You know, I've done a couple of stem cells and it's helped quite a bit.
Let me, let me ask this.
When I look at like in the business world, when you lose, it's not business in entrepreneurship, you lose every day.
You lose clients, you lose employees, you lose best salespeople, you lose contracts, you lose capital you were raising.
Your company goes out of business.
There's many things you're constantly losing, but it's not on pay-per-view with tens of millions of people watching you when you're losing because you lose.
People in the company know, competitors know, industry knows, but it's not on the paper the next day with, you know, viral clips going off.
It's got a few hundred million views and everyone's watching it, right?
For you, when I look at the list of fights you've had, you beat Edwards, you've beat Kobe.
I think you beat him twice, right?
Did you?
Yeah, you beat him twice.
Gilbert Burns, which by the way, to me, I don't know how much credit Gilbert Burns get.
He's a dog of a fighter.
So this is not an easy fight to beat him.
You beat him.
You beat Masvedal, I think also twice.
Yeah, you beat him twice.
Obviously, you have that one clip where everyone's seen and we're sitting there and I'm saying, you know, Masvedal's about to get him.
And I'm on the other side.
I'm like, he's about to get him.
And then we're sitting with friends and like, damn, Pat, he got Masvedal.
And then you, and everybody's like, what the hell just happened?
Made no sense that knockout may be one of the wildest knockouts in UFC.
And then who am I missing?
You, oh, Tyrone Woodley, which by the way, at one point, he was a guy that could have gone up and, you know, maybe Dana didn't like the fact that he wasn't a showman and he would fight point fights.
You beat him.
And then Edwards, quiet guy, guy you beat before, he catches you in the fifth round with whatever a minute left.
And then another one and then comes out.
The last fight that you had, I think you only had two weeks and he didn't knock you out.
It went five rounds.
That was a decision that was made.
How do you go from the high of, you know, one of the most viral knockouts of all time against Masvedal?
You beat Kobe back to back in that one conference where he's sitting there.
You guys are talking shit.
You're dressed in a suit, I believe.
I think you were dressed in a suit and you're professionally talking.
And he's just calling you out, calling you out, let's go.
Let's go right now.
Let's go right now.
And then it goes to this.
How do you manage the super, super high to the super low in your world?
That's a good question.
It's a very, it's a very tough thing to be able to do because you don't really plan for that.
No one plans for that.
Like I said, when you're going a certain way, you only look one way and that's up.
You're just looking up, And no one thinks about what if I go down, and that's what they tell you.
You don't think about the negatives or what could happen.
You're just supposed to be just focused on this part, but no one really teaches you how to deal with that.
So, I think for me, the big, the big advantage that I had is I was never really attached to that.
I didn't get into the sport saying, man, I want to be famous or I want to be, I want everyone to see me.
I got into this going, man, I would really love to compete and show like what I've been working on, the skills and things that I want to best that other man.
I want to be in that competition.
I want to be the best in that competition.
That was really what I was attached to.
And making money, of course.
I mean, I wanted to be able to provide for my family and support them.
So that was what I was attached to.
So, you know, being once I got there, I didn't necessarily, you know, was like, oh man, I love this.
I love being famous.
I didn't necessarily care about that.
I still don't care.
It still kind of makes me feel a certain way when people kind of run up and you know, want pictures or autograph.
You know, even though I've grown into the role, it still kind of is a little because deep down inside in my mind, it's like people want pictures and autographs for me.
You know, you're still that kid in the back of your mind.
But it's a difficult place to be because there's a lot of depression that comes with that.
Because once you're, for me, I would say that part is from, like I mentioned, wanting to be the best at it.
I want to be known as the best because I put the time and the work in to be the best.
And so when that's not the case, you're not being recognized as that, there is that depression that comes with that.
But over time, I learned kind of how to, you know, tools to deal with that.
And of course, having a good support system around you.
What is that?
What's those tools, the systems?
Well, first and foremost, it's acknowledging and understanding that it's going to happen.
Whether you win, it's going to happen.
Even the most the mass of all knockouts, you're on this high man, a week, two weeks, three weeks, and it's fizzles out and you're at home.
It's like, what's next?
And then you kind of come down from that.
And then there's depression that comes with it.
And you have to be able to know how to recognize that, acknowledge it, and be able to, okay, this is the things that I do to be able to help me get back out there or get my mind off of this or pivot.
And for me, you know, my family, of course, is some fighters don't have that to where it's solely them.
So when it's just you, that's a very difficult thing to be able to deal with.
But for me, I have a child.
You know, she comes in the room and she wants to play.
You got to play because, and what you're not realizing is that gets you away from just sitting there drowning in your sorrows.
Like, man, I just lost this fight.
Or, or what am I doing today?
What do I do next week?
So, my family is my support system and how I deal with that.
But definitely understanding because some guys don't understand why do I feel the need to go to go outside?
Why do I feel the need to do this?
Why do I feel the need that I just, I'm just inside and I'm sad for what?
For what reason?
So, there's a lot of that that comes with it.
But, you know, it's, you know, I'm kind of in that place now where it's, you know, I've always been, had these crossroads kind of in my career.
You know, I have a crossroads.
Do you pivot or do you do something?
Do you do you double down on this?
Do you pivot?
Do you double down on this?
And now, obviously, getting into the business world too is trying to understand that because it's very difficult.
You touched on something, you know, business.
In business, you're losing every day, but there's not that magnifying glass, that scope on it for the world to see, which makes it very, very difficult because now starting to get into the business world, it's like, I'm starting to understand that.
And, you know, I'm not all the way in there yet.
So, you know, it's been difficult, but it's, you know, it's learning.
How do you learn?
What do you read?
Who do you listen to?
How do you get better at business?
Well, that's something that I'm still working on.
I'm working on there.
I do, you know, listen, look at, you know, a few guys.
But, I mean, the best teacher is experience.
I mean, is experience.
You know, if you never experience it, it's very difficult to just listen to everybody because what worked for that guy might not be what works for you.
And so, you know, just going off of what someone has done, obviously that's a good roadmap.
But I guess experience getting in there and understanding, wow, okay, I did that.
That wasn't great.
Don't do that again.
I think that's the best teacher.
It's kind of like with fighting.
Like you can watch the videotapes and read all the books and have a trainer, but unless you get in the gym and see what it feels like to get punched in the face, you're never going to have, no book's going to tell you what it's like to get punched in the face.
Very true.
But I mean, obviously there's coaching that's involved in everything.
If you want to be the best, you know, because a coach might be able to teach you skills that you don't necessarily know.
So, yeah, I'm definitely in that position.
I have a few people around that.
And now that's the good thing now is you have access.
You know, I guess that's what the popularity kind of buys you is a little bit of access to be able to be around great people and great men that can teach you some of those things.
But yeah, I've, you know, business is not as easy.
Who's the wildest person where, you know, when you're winning, because in the content world, you'll make a piece of content and then eventually some of the stuff goes viral and then someone will DM you and they'll say, hey, man, I just want to let you know.
I don't say this publicly, but I follow your content.
Your stuff is good, right?
Oh, you follow the content?
Shit, that's great.
And our first time it happens, it's a real, you know, unique experience for a content creator.
But for you as a fighter, when you started coming up and then all of a sudden winning and then dominating and then pound for pound, number one, the talks, possibly the top five greatest of all time, this was the conversation just a year and a half ago.
It's not like we're talking 10 years ago, right?
So when conversations like that happen, goats are attracted to goats.
So who were some goats that reached out to you, called you out of nowhere, you know, or ran into you or wanted to have dinner with you?
Where you're like, dude, I'm having dinner with this guy.
This is pretty wild.
What was that moment for you?
It's been a lot.
I mean, and it's still happening.
You know, I guess you don't know your reach because it's not, yeah, we're connected.
We're all connected now.
But they say there's a reason why, you know, like let's say Instagram, for example, there's a reason why the picture that you posted, you know, your story might have more eyes than the actual people that liked your picture that you posted.
You know, more people are watching than you actually do know.
And so I've, I mean, I'll run into people and they're just like, you know, I'm a fan.
And these are people that I've watched or grew up watching.
I'm a fan of.
And I'll, you know, say hi and they're like, oh, yeah, we know who you are.
And it's like, oh, really?
You know me?
You know, I've had that moment a few times.
What was the first one though?
What was the first one?
Because that's the one that says it's different.
Once you experience it, I guess it's different.
I guess it's different level of what celebrities are.
And there's been some big ones.
And I guess at the time, some might be huge to me.
And then you get to a certain level and they get really, really big.
I mean, I've Shaq, I mean, me and Shaq are pretty cool.
You know, we've been around each other quite a few times.
Shaq is cool.
And I think, you know, spending time getting to know him a little bit, you realize that's, that's a cool guy.
That's a guy I could hang around with for a whole week and just be cool.
Meeting Tom Brady, when it's actually funny how Tom Brady and I kind of, so Tom Brady's a fight fan.
He comes to fights sometimes.
And he was at my fight in, I think he's been at a couple of my fights, but the one that I remember was he's at my fight in Jacksonville with the Masfidol, the second fight.
And so after that, I mean, that fight, because it was the first, I believe, the first sporting event back with a live audience in the world.
And so after that fight, I'm in the back and just, you know, just doing the back of house stuff, media and all of this.
And that night was probably one of the most memorable nights that I've had because just seeing my family around back, it was the first fight my father got to attend live.
And so having just everyone there, it was just having a great time.
And my daughter was awake and she was just loving it.
And I just, you know, remember I'm talking to her and she comes to the back and we're talking and she's having a great time.
And she's like, oh man, I asked her if you had a great time.
She's like, yeah, I'm having a great time.
And she tells me, yeah, I was taking a lot of pictures.
I was like, oh, that's cool, you know, because that's the thing is I just, she's always been around me all the time.
And so she goes, yeah, I was took a picture with this baseball player and this other guy.
I was like, oh, this baseball player.
She's like, yeah, I took a picture with him.
And she's like, oh, my Chia Vay took a picture with him.
So I'm like, oh, okay, cool.
So I didn't really pay any attention at all.
Baseball player.
I knew a few baseball players.
I mean, which I love baseball.
And I knew a few baseball players at the time.
So I'm just thinking, oh, baseball, there's a lot of celebrities out there.
So, you know, a baseball player.
So I'm like, oh, cool.
So then I get the picture later on.
Tom Brady.
It's a picture of, it's on her IG, Miss Pretty 2014.
And I see the picture and I'm like, wait, no, this can't be the baseball player.
So because her aunt sent me the picture.
So she's in bed.
And so I wait for her to wake up the next day.
I'm like, is this the baseball player?
She goes, yeah, yeah, that's him.
I'm like, really?
That's the baseball player?
Tom Brady?
She's like, yeah.
And so when I actually went to the game, New Orleans versus in Tampa, that's when I met Tom again.
And we actually got a chance right there.
We got a chance to actually speak and catch up.
And he's like, oh, hey, how are you?
How's your daughter?
And I'm like, how's your daughter?
Like, my daughter, she's fine.
How's your baseball game?
What's the game?
You're her favorite baseball player.
I think I told him the story, but I'm not sure.
I'm like, you won't believe what she said.
That's a great so funny.
Yeah.
So, I mean, Tom Brady, it's been a ton of other guys, like actors, musicians, a lot, a lot of musicians, because I love music, you know.
And so right now, Toby Inwigway, good friend of mine, and he's just a rising artist.
And the one thing that I just, he's like a brother to me.
And the one thing that I just love about him is he's so authentic to who he is.
He's a family man, and he takes his family everywhere.
And I'm just like, man, I would love that luxury to be able to just take them at whatever I'm doing, they're there, front and center.
His kids are getting a front row seat of seeing what mommy and daddy does on a daily basis.
And not that they're missing out.
They have tutors and they have babysitters with them.
That's family members with them all the time.
And I'm just watching.
I'm just like, man, how great is this?
Because we don't see this anymore.
You know, people don't get that, especially not kids nowadays.
They don't get to see that.
And just watching him walk and ascend and what he's doing is just, it's amazing.
That's cool.
With the, you know, the stories of who you meet.
I remember Tom was at the event with us and my son, the youngest son, Dylan, is like, you know, I want to catch a ball from you.
And Tom's like, what are we waiting for?
Let's go right now.
And he was just such a gamer.
Like he just wanted to go out there.
And, you know, you would think from one end, this guy's the greatest to ever lace him up in football.
But on the other end, this guy's just a regular guy who, you know, wants to compete and play the game as much as the other guy does.
Pat, you also went across the middle from Tom Brady.
And dressers, I mean, at the vault.
Come on.
And caught that ball, Pat.
No one called me for a contract, though.
I was disappointed.
The Assyrian nightmare.
It could have been you.
The Assyrian assassin.
Assassin something.
The Assyrian assassin.
So going back to UFC and with these fights that are taking place.
So Jake Paul has this fight with this guy.
I don't, you know, Andre August, right?
And then George Jenko goes and flies out to Romania and he sits down with Andrew Tate and they have this interview, right?
And the interview does very, very well.
George is a phenomenal interviewer, a Syrian guy.
We make the introduction.
They go.
They have a great time.
Andrew's like, absolutely.
I'd love to sit down with him.
And the interview was, by the way, he's actually, I don't know if you saw it or not.
He's a phenomenal interviewer.
But it leads to this conversation about the Tate brothers finding, fighting Jake and Logan Paul.
I just want to play this to you and get a reaction to see if you have any reaction.
This is George asking Andrew, and we'll play the video from Logan Paul giving his thoughts.
Go for it.
Okay.
Two brothers, one cage.
Jake Logan, you, Tristan, who comes out of life?
You know what?
I'm trying so hard to not start internet beats.
I'm really trying not to.
You could say Jake and Logan, man.
Don't worry about it, though.
I can't lie.
I'm going through life.
I'm trying to live peaceful now.
Fed agents in my house.
Matrix is after me.
I'm just trying to live peaceful.
But of course, I have absolute faith in myself and my brother.
And I know what we've been through, and I know the kind of men we are.
No seriously, action like i'm not, i'm let's talk now.
That like let's just go yeah, but you know for a fact, me and Jake will travel to Romania.
We will make this happen.
We'll do it wherever you want, whatever conditions you want.
That's that okay.
So obviously, we talked earlier about who are good talkers and personality and talkers, all that stuff.
I mean Jake is fighting, making 10 million, 20 million, a fight that he's setting up right, they're making all this money with all these fights.
What do you think about the idea of, you know, Jake and Logan Paul fighting Andrew and Tristan Tate?
I mean, I don't what.
What are we?
What kind of fight?
What are they doing exactly?
Is it boxing or is it mma?
You know, if it's, if it's an MMA fight, I think that favors Jake and Logan.
It favors.
If it's Mma for sure, Jake and Logan for sure.
Wait, Jake and Logan yeah, it favors them.
Why would you say that?
I mean, they actually wrestled yeah, but these guys got the kicks.
Man, they're kickboxers yeah, that that's actually a disadvantage when it comes to wrestlers.
You know, if I catch a kick and you fall down like it's, it's different and it's a different balance.
When you're a kickboxer, you have to be a little bit more upright because you have to be able to check kicks and and stuff.
When you're a boxer, you have to be a little bit more uh, split stance because you have to give half your body.
So it's different styles.
But once you get that takedown, a kickboxer or a boxer has no see, people don't realize that.
The regular human don't realize.
Just the regular, the regular, I guess I would say civilian.
The civilian human yeah, doesn't realize that it's an actual skill to be able to get off of your back.
Yeah, as a man, can you imagine being held on your back and someone just tells you, get out, get off your back, and you can't do it?
Yeah, think about that.
Yeah, it sucks.
I could hold somebody on their back for a day or two, if I want.
You are just on your back.
You want to give it a shot.
I can feed you grapes if I, if I, and then bathroom break on your back yeah, and there's nothing you can do about it, like that's.
Are you saying wrestling is the most important thing?
Well, just grab in mixed martial arts, yeah 100, scrap that, grab 100.
Because the thing is, if you think about a fight, there's only three places a fight can take.
There's three positions to a fight.
Think about it.
We're both standing up trading punches.
That's one.
That's a neutral position.
We're both standing up two, I can be on my back, you're on top of me landing punches, or I can be on top of you on your back landing punches.
So 67 of a fight takes place on the ground.
Now, as a wrestler, my discipline is being able to control which real estate take.
That fight is taking place.
So i'm.
I'm well versed at being down there.
So 67 of i'm is a chance that i'm gonna win this fight.
And then there's a 33 chance that in a neutral position, anything can happen.
So think about that.
Most people don't think about that.
Like, I've won two-thirds of a fight.
I've won already because of being a wrestler to just a normal person who knows how to throw hands.
And so, if I'm well-versed in that place, I can take you down there, or I have the ability to stop you from taking me down there.
So, it's yeah, if you're if you can wrestle, that's one of the most important aspects of being able to defend yourself.
So, in high school, you were what, 55 and three or some records?
No, it was definitely more than that.
But it's, uh, I think that was my senior year, my senior season.
And is that why you were saying, is that why you were saying that the Paul brothers having the wrestling background, that's that big of an advantage?
So, it's an advantage.
I mean, obviously, it's declined because they haven't been wrestling continuously.
He's doing his WWE thing.
Yeah, but that's different.
That's entertaining.
You're so funny.
I'm just saying he's trained.
I had a fun time with that.
That's it.
Well, on breaking news, you're saying that WWE isn't real.
Yeah, Rob, don't start crying.
I didn't say that.
I didn't say that.
But real quick, I want to know how important size is because I got to stand up for my guy Tristan because I actually asked Tristan that exact same question when we were in Romania.
I asked literally the same question George Janko asked him.
I said, you and Andrew walk in a room, Logan, and the Paul brothers.
I said, Who walks out of life?
He's like, Come on, I don't want to play this juvenile game, but come on.
Yeah, but my point is this: Tristan is bigger than any of those guys.
Tristan's a legit 6'4 big ass dude.
Yeah, no, size is important for sure.
But listen, don't get me wrong.
I'm not saying Tristan doesn't stand at chat.
No, absolutely.
No, I'm not saying that.
Like, this is just a fight.
No.
They definitely have a good chance.
I would say, probably, I would have said Andrew Tate probably is the more versatile one, the more skilled one out of all of them.
But, you know, Jake is definitely.
It's coming on.
And I can just tell from that interview, you can see the brothers and you see the differences.
Jake is starting to turn into the athlete, the competitor.
Initially, he wasn't like that.
It was just entertainment purposes.
I mean, he's still handpicking guys to test himself.
But that's boxing.
You got to get your bearings before you jump into world championship fights.
So, more power to what he's doing, but he's handpicking fights, but he's starting to turn into an athlete.
And you can see it just from sitting there.
When you're an athlete and you're climbing, you start to get this chip on your shoulder.
And you see the difference between him and Logan.
Logan is more of the business guy.
And Logan's obviously a little bit more mature, a little bit older, to where he's more relaxed in his answers, to where Jake is kind of the chip on his shoulder.
We can do it right now.
I'm about to actually, you know, you can see that in them.
So he's starting to become the athlete.
What's Jake's upside?
If he continues down this path, he's not doing sort of puff pieces and all that, and he's actually fighting in the boxing world.
Yeah.
Right?
Because he fought Tyson Fury's top brother, Tommy Fury.
Didn't work out.
He lost.
That was the first like that.
But he had a good fight.
Yeah, it Was a good fight.
No doubt.
But he lost.
Yeah, he wasn't stopped.
I mean, it wasn't like just being outclassed in any way.
No, it was close.
And I think at one point he knocked Tommy down.
But what's his upside if he continues down this path?
He's pretty young.
He's 26.
No, I mean, the sky's the limit.
You know, he continues to do his thing.
The sky's the limit.
You know, what he's being able to do to blend what he's doing, blend in both the entertainment aspect of it and still be able to compete is, you know, is, I guess, I don't want to say he's one of the first to do it, but at this level, you know, and in the beginning stages, when you're zero and zero and then your first fight or your second fight and you're getting these many eyeballs and the internet to watch this.
I mean, it's, I mean, it's great.
Speaking of the internet, would this be the biggest fight of all time?
Most viewed fight I've watched on the Tates versus the Pauls.
Do you not think that they would get eyeballs?
Those are the cage.
You don't think so?
All right.
This is the attention economy, the eyeball economy.
Okay, well, you don't think that would be a top five, top 10 fight?
Okay, it depends on what you're doing.
Eyeballs all time.
Eyeballs.
That's what I'm saying.
Eyeballs.
Listen, I guess, you know, for the entertainment aspect, because the world now is just so polluted with what we call entertainment.
Like, it's, you know, the world isn't really, we just, it's just, we want to be entertained by junk.
And it's junk.
Junk sells more than actual reality until the world gets real.
And let's be honest.
When Mayweather wanted to fight Manny Pacquiao, that's the world recognizing that these are the two of the best athletes in their respective fields doing this.
This is something special that we have to watch.
And you saw what that did.
That broke all records.
But then you get another piece like Mayweather and McGregor, where it's the two of the best in their respective sports.
But, you know, yeah, we're curious.
We just want to see what this looks like.
So the world tunes in.
But I mean, you just get guys that just fighting for the heck of it.
Let's just, you know, lock the Tate brothers in a room for these guys.
I mean, they're not the best in their respective fields, but they're best at getting eyeballs is my point.
Yeah, but my thing is how many eyeballs did Mayweather Logan?
$80, $280 million on the fight, and McGregor made $130.
But at the end of the day, Kamara, it's like all respect.
When people are like, no, you a hater.
I'm not a hater.
Logan and Jake Paul started on vine.
They're social media guys.
All right.
Don't you think, like, to me, this is me, it lessens the integrity of the sport of boxing.
It's like, okay, I get it that, you know, Jake is getting better and he's coming up, bro.
And the Fury guys, whatever, he ain't fighting a real professional boxer.
That would be a completely different thing.
And my question to you is, Kamara, like, they're fighting, like, they would never go MMA.
Like, an actual professional, they're fighting these people.
If you, you think Jake or Logan Paul can last?
I'm saying it's if they go MMA, they have the advantage.
No, I'm saying, and I'm saying in general, because they're not, who's the biggest guy Jake Paul has fought?
Like, I mean, because Logan's fought there, Logan fought Mayweather and LLO.
Just so you know, what he's saying is, there is no case study to see who Jake Paul has fought in MMA because Jake is only boxed, right?
Yeah, yeah.
I think the biggest thing is Andrew and Tristan, they're conditioning.
They're not going to be in the same conditioning as Logan and Jake are because Logan and Jake are like in their 20s going running.
The amount of distractions Andrew and Tristan have had right now, like there's no way you set up that fight if you need payday.
They don't need to make money.
They're okay when it comes onto that side.
But it would get a lot of eyeballs.
I would have liked to have seen them peak to peak competing to see what that looks like.
But Kamaru is clearly saying, he's not saying if they do boxing, Jake and Logan have the advantage.
He's saying if they do mixed martial arts, they have an advantage due to their wrestling abilities.
That would be very interesting.
It's exactly what I'm saying.
I mean, if it's, let's just say a fight.
You know, there's no rules out there.
If we're in the street, it's a fight.
You know, obviously without weapons.
Yeah.
We're in the street.
It's a fight.
Yeah.
Obviously, Jake, you look at a street fight.
Most cases, where is that going to end?
Yeah.
Two guys rolling on the ground.
Okay.
You know, so if Jake and Logan have actually been trained at some point in how to take the fight down there or how to get up from there, I mean, you don't think they have the advantage if a fight breaks out?
They 100% do that.
And now they also are trained to stand and throw punches as well.
You know, which before you would give that advantage to, you know, Andrew Tate because he had been kickboxing for a while.
But, you know, that's a fight.
They have that advantage in that realm.
I'm going to go out and say it.
I'm rooting for the Tates.
That's it.
I want to see this fight.
I'm not saying I'm rooting for this guy or that guy, but I'm just giving you the facts here.
Like they would, because they know how, okay, if I grab this leg, I run him this way, he's going to fall down.
Or if I run him that way, the balance, you know, I compromise the balance and I get him down there.
So, yeah, that's a skill in itself.
Being able to know that, it's different.
If Andrew Tate was to grab a leg, I don't know if he trained wrestling, you know, but if he hasn't trained wrestling, it's a lot different.
Yeah, do you guys think, but here's my thing: the Tates aside, do you think that they would ever, I'm talking about the Logan brothers, they would transition, yeah, whatever.
Transition to make sure they transit, like, for instance, like Woodley went from, he's an MMA guy, but he boxed, what's his name?
Yes.
One of the Jake Paul boxed Jake.
Do you think he'd go knocked out?
What I'm saying is, I do not think they would last two minutes in a ring with like an MMA guy that's no holes barred fight, like a real fight.
Boxing.
He spots Woodley.
He spots Woodley.
No, what I'm saying is, but what I'm saying is, if Woodley fought Logan Paul and it was an MMA, like UFC type fight, who wins that fight?
Oh, come on, bro.
I don't know.
I mean, it's depending on what, you know, depending on time.
You don't think Woodley would absolutely destroy any of the fighting brothers?
Destroy?
I don't want to say destroy.
I do think Woodley wins for sure, but I don't want to say destroy.
In an MMA fight?
I mean, the fight starts.
The fight starts.
It starts on the feet.
Oh, man.
And, you know, they've competed against each other, throwing hands.
And we saw how that went.
And so I wouldn't say, oh, he would destroy him.
I do give Woodley the upper hand because Woodley is a better wrestler than them, at least accolade-wise.
But it's a different game now.
And then also, you got to account for how much time are we giving them to train?
Are we giving them a whole year and a half or two years to train for this?
Because that definitely makes, you know, it definitely makes things a little bit interesting.
But I wouldn't say that they would never go into MMA because I think they're young enough and smart enough business-wise to where they understand.
If I'm going to make X amount of dollars, why not?
FTM, follow the mind.
Would you ever participate in something like that?
Like in the future, doing like a boxing exhibition or not, is it called an exhibition or is it actually you?
Exhibit.
I mean, yeah.
Exhibition against somebody.
Yeah, I wouldn't mind.
I wouldn't mind.
I, you know, not too long ago, I heard her here first.
Not too long ago, I was crazy enough to wear it.
I really, that's the thing.
I was in my mind, I was going to get Carelo.
I wanted.
Oh, really?
Really?
I wanted Canelo so bad.
Damn.
2021.
I wanted him so bad.
You know, it's this thing.
There's this aura of invincibility that when you are an athlete and you put so much time in, nothing can stop you.
You are literally just a shield.
Nothing can stop you.
And I wanted Canelo bad.
And I was like, man, you know, so you saw what Francis and Tyson Fury, I was on that level. of belief, if not more.
You know, I wanted Canelo.
And boxing, straight up.
Yeah.
Oh, that'd be sick.
Why not?
Why not?
How do you think you would have done against Canelo?
You're prime this time.
Yeah.
I think I would have given him hell for the first four rounds for sure.
I think I would have given him hell.
But then after four, let's be real here.
These guys, that's what he does.
These guys do this.
And it's a skill in itself.
And you watch guys shadow box, you know, and it looks silly.
Oh, these guys are just punching air.
But people don't realize how hard that is to do.
You just do that.
And these guys are, it's a skill to be able to do it for 12 rounds, 13, 20, however many rounds they choose to do that.
Just to be able to have the level of just focus, just to be able to just sit there and punch air and imagine someone in front of you.
It's a skill.
And, you know, and they just have the timing.
They see punches.
They know the sequence of punches.
If you're going to throw, you're going to hit him with a jab or jab right hand.
They know a left hook is coming.
They know the roll.
They know to do that.
Like it's just a mastery that they learn.
And so for the first four rounds, it's going to be a little confusing because my sequence is going to be a lot different than most boxers.
You know, boxers can throw five, six punch combinations.
You know, I might hit him with two.
He might be expecting more.
No, it's not coming.
And then another one comes at, you know, so it's going to take him time to be able to compute what's going on.
But after four, I can't promise what's going to happen.
By the way, I'm not going to lie.
That Mayweather counterfight was better.
It was actually really interesting.
I've got hands.
I was very impressed with that fight.
And it wasn't a waste of a, you're like, what a waste of money for this fight.
I was actually entertained.
Yeah.
I was actually entertained.
Francis against Fury.
Who do you think won?
This is your brother.
So this is.
I mean, I'm, you know, I'm have to be honest with everything.
When it comes to the way that boxing is scored now, you know, of course they're going to give it to Fury because it's just, I'm going to throw pig pat, even though the punches don't land.
I'm hitting.
It looks like I have the activity and I'm moving my, I'm just moving around, moving around, dancing around.
Peter Pat, it looks like I have activity.
So they're going to give him the fight just based on that.
But if you're going to say, this was a fight, who won this fight?
There's no doubt Francis and Ganton won that fight.
You know, he hit him.
He dropped him.
The more effective punches came from Francis.
When Francis hit Fury, Fury turned into a point fighter.
And this is Tyson Fury, the best that we, people are saying the best ever, which I don't think he's the best ever, but I do think he's definitely in that top five for sure.
But I don't think he's the best heavyweight.
What do you have in your top five?
Top five, you got to put Lennox Lewis up there.
You put Lennox on top?
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Lennox Lewis, one of the most effective heavyweights you've ever seen.
Like, you couldn't get past his first jab.
And then you couldn't get, he had the power.
He had footwork.
And he had the tenacity to go out and get you out of there.
100%.
I put Lennox Lewis up there.
I mean, Evander Holyfield was a, he was a fighter.
Yeah.
That Evander Holyfield, I think he wasn't necessarily the biggest guy, but that's where heavyweights were really fighting.
They weren't throwing 25 punches around.
These heavyweights were throwing 60, 70 punches around.
So, so far, you got Lennox.
I got Lennox.
You got Fury and you is Mike up there?
I Vander.
Yeah, for sure.
I put Mike up there because Mike, Mike embodied everything that a fighter was.
You know, he was scary before, he was scary during, he was scary after.
Eat your kids.
And that's part of that's art of war.
It's part of fighting.
You have to be able to evoke those emotions out of your opponents.
You put Lennox ahead of Frasier?
You put Lennox ahead of Frasier.
When you bought Muhammad Ali, I put Lennox top five.
Yeah, I put Lennox, definitely.
Yeah, I'll put him.
So Ali's in your five?
I put Ali in there because he revolutionized Frasier's outside of five.
I mean, I would put him, yeah, just outside of my top five.
I mean, if you've got, you've got, you got, if you've got Lennox, Holyfield, Tyson, Fury, Ali.
You're just talking heavyweights right now.
Yeah, just heavyweights.
Rocky Moss.
Yeah, just heavyweights.
Totally get it.
Yeah.
I mean, and then you've got guys like, you've got big George Foreman.
Yeah.
You've got Larry Holmes.
You've got, I mean, there's some Joe Frazier.
You've got, I mean, there's some real, real guys.
But let me ask you a question about Tyson Fury back to him.
Yeah.
And I say this with ultimate respect.
I think he's a beast.
You're one of the literally physically impressive guys out there.
You're chiseled.
You're ripped.
It's ridiculous, bro.
When you look at Tyson, he's I mean, I was watching.
I think that's what makes him.
Is that what it is?
I was watching a fight with a girl, Nagano versus Tyson.
I go, just look at these guys before the fight.
She goes, oh, the black guy's going to kick his ass with this sloppy potato out here.
I go, wait till you see who wins the fight, right?
And I, because I knew Tyson was likely going to win.
But the fact that he's just not even in shape.
Talking about, look at Tyson's Fury six-pack.
Look at that fury.
He's never had a six-pack.
He's a beast.
He's a savage as a man.
But how does he not even have the shape?
What's going on?
Look at this range.
It's not, you know, fighting is not necessarily about that.
Just martial arts.
It's not necessarily about the physique.
You know, there's some guys that are blessed with the.
That's kind of what I thought it was.
And that's what adds to Tyson Fury's story.
I mean, it's the fact that, yeah, he's proven.
You don't have to look like a Francis Nganu who's built like a machine to still be able to excel and to fight the way he does.
And even in, you see it in Jiu-Jitsu.
You said your kids do jiu-jitsu.
I mean, it's not necessarily the biggest, strongest, you know, meanest looking guy out there that wins.
You know, you can have a little scrawny guy just basically run circles.
Yeah, like Joyce Gracie, that guy was choking people out with their geese.
So are abs just for show?
No, I mean, of course not.
Adam, come on.
But it's good.
They look good.
That's what I'm saying.
They look good.
Because the chances of Tyson Fury ever getting abs is like Rob getting abs over here.
It's just not Rob's out of this guy.
I'm just saying, but cardio, stamina, nothing.
No, he has cardio.
Tyson, to be able to box 12 rounds, do you know his story?
Do you know anything about what you're talking about with Tyson Fury?
Like, do you know what this guy did?
Who he was?
What he did?
Did he get higher background?
Do you know that he's got sloppy logs?
Do you know what Baldwin or Richard is?
I'm familiar with Tyson Fury.
There's probably the things you'll enlighten me on.
No, no, I'm just saying like this story is the ultimate story, comeback, redemption, the father, the family, who they were growing up in the streets, what the father was known for.
This is a fighter's family.
Like, they're a...
Oh, I've seen his father, his brother.
His brother's the best shaped guy I've ever freaking seen fighting.
Yeah, he's in shape as well.
But no disrespect to Tyson.
I root for the guy.
I'm a fan.
He's a beast.
I'm just curious about the part that was interesting is his father named him after Tyson.
Mike Tyson, yeah.
He knew.
And Tyson still chose to be in Francis and Ghana's corner.
Wow.
Instead of Tyson Fury, Francis.
Oh, Mike Tyson doesn't owe him loyalty.
No, no, I told you.
All I'm saying is the name.
No, no.
What I'm saying is, though, I mean, that was part of the story.
It was part of the story you needed for the fight, right?
It was kind of like, look.
No doubt.
You chose this guy's name, but he's going to the other guy's corner.
It was, to some people, they wanted Tyson to destroy Francis.
To some people, we're like, dude, Francis is going to, what if he becomes a comeback underdog and does what he does?
That father himself is one of the most entertaining guys.
We talk about shit.
The Ball Brothers, LeVar Ball, I don't even know what the father's doing these days.
The father?
You saw he flipped off the table before the three.
He's a showman.
Yeah, I mean, they understand.
They know what they're there for.
Usman, good move, Francis, leaving UFC to go into boxing?
Right now, of course, it seemed that way, for sure.
I think for Francis, it wasn't necessarily about, because Francis was, I think, was a star.
I've known Francis since his first fight in the UFC.
And we've been close.
And I've, you know, that's like my brother.
I always, you know, got his back and always will.
And so he's always been a star to me.
And it was just a matter of time for the world recognized it.
But I think he was going to get there eventually.
I think for him, it was about freedom.
It was having that, you know, he's had an interesting very, very interesting life.
So to feel that freedom to be able to do what he wanted to do as an athlete, because we give so much of ourselves to this.
I think that that's really what it was about for him.
And now he has it.
He can box if he wants.
He can do mixed martial arts if he wants.
And that, I think, is the big win for him.
I am so curious to know how he's going to train now that he knows.
Like, you know, when he says Fury comes up to him and he says, I'm going to, you know, you're going to be a student.
I'm going to teach you a lesson or whatever.
Oh, yeah.
I just saw it because I was in the ring.
So we're getting out of the ring.
Yeah.
And so Fury goes in his accent.
Get ready to go to school, son.
You know, in his accent.
And I didn't know if Francis heard it, but I heard it.
You know, listen, so I'm getting out of the ring before the fight.
And I hear him say it.
Oh, cool.
You know, it's just.
Oh, you don't know if Francis heard it.
I didn't know if Francis heard it, but I heard.
So did you tell Francis?
Hey, just so you know.
You're not fighting.
He's talking to shit.
He said he's going to take you to school.
No, no, not at all.
I just, I heard him say it, and I'm just like, I mean, it's just what, you know, you're in a competitive mode.
Like, he's ready to go.
And it was just, you know, just before I even touched on that, it was just something that there's an energy that you feel right when you're about to, when guys are about to compete.
And I just, and this is not like any other sports.
Like, it's different.
This is not a game that we're playing.
Guys are about to fight.
There's an energy that you see you that you just see to they turn into human.
You see two humans and it's a spirit that obviously I'm used to seeing now.
But I'm in there with them and you just it's like strip everything away.
You just see two kids in here about to and the little boys they're about to fight.
Something's about to happen.
And that's the first time because you from from afar, you see Tyson Furies, these big, massive stars, this competitor.
And I see him in there.
And then the nervousness and all of this with all the guys, with both guys, him and Francis, you see it.
And then he says that.
And when he's saying, so I'm seeing this from him because I'm a fighter as well.
So I recognize what's going on, what's happening, the energy that I'm feeling.
I see it in him.
And then he says that.
I'm like, oh, okay.
He's a competitor.
He's trying to compete, trying to get one more word in to maybe mess with your head and get you to not be locked in like that.
But then Francis comes out and you know, I knew Francis.
I've said it to him.
With a left, though, with a left.
Yeah.
I mean, Francis has insane power.
And it wasn't even full contact.
It didn't make a full.
No.
If Francis hits any, I think Franz punches a rhino on the side of the head.
That rhino's going to stop.
Is he the hardest puncher out there these days?
Yeah.
He has the actual Guinness World Record for the hardest.
Big on him.
Oh, damn.
Yeah.
When he was here, that was about a year and a half ago.
He had his leg was thirsty.
Yeah, his leg was messed up.
Come on, who's the hardest in your career that you felt power hitting you?
Who was the strongest that you felt?
I've made a career of not really being here in there much until I took the kick that ended my title reign.
But I would in a fight, not crazy.
I've never been taking a full-on like strength.
Like, who would you say is like the practice been hit?
Who?
Oh, really?
Francis has, I've actually sparred with Francis a little bit.
And he wasn't going full out, but still, I felt what that was like to run in because I did take a punch in the head and I ran into that.
I was like, yeah, that's not good.
And what's the weight?
What's the weight outside of that conference, you guys?
Well, I'm about 190 pounds.
And Francis is all 27.
Jeez, just rock.
And you saw his build right there.
And I took a jab and I was just like.
You took a jab?
Yeah, I took a jab and it cracked my neck.
Oh, so I felt it just, and I took it to the forehead too, which is not a place you reactively want to punch another guy because you could break your hand.
And I took that jab and I was just like, next crack.
I didn't like that.
Do we not do that again?
I would say Anthony Johnson.
Anthony Johnson.
The late, my buddy, the late Anthony Johnson.
Wow.
Rumble Johnson.
Anthony was probably one of the hardest hitting guys.
Really?
It was just something about the way these guys stand, the way they deliver a punch.
Anthony was at one point.
He was violent.
Yeah.
He was ranked one of the most violent.
Yeah, he had, who has, who was a knockout?
Because he had one that was.
Yeah, he had many.
He had Glover Teixeira knocked his tooth out in there.
He had Alexander Augustuson knocked him out in Sweden.
He had who else?
He was just not knocking a ton of guys out.
By the way, he's had some.
If we asked Masvedal who hits the hardest, do you think he'd say you?
That was a brutal knockout, though.
Masvedal's had a lot of fights.
And that's the thing.
He's a veteran.
He's had a ton of fights.
I'm from Miami.
He used to fight Miami.
Yeah, he has to fight.
What was the bare knuckle?
It was, oh, Kimbo Slice, those fights you used to do.
That was him down at Hayalia out there.
Wild.
Yeah.
So you don't think that your knockout, which was savage, by the way, you don't think that would qualify as a hardware?
I don't know.
He might not remember what it felt like.
And you said that with Leon.
You said, I didn't know for 20 minutes you were.
No, see, I'm, yeah, that's, it's such a weird, weird, the human body is just so crazy.
This is insane.
So I think I was down for, I mean, I was, I was down for maybe like, you know, 30, 30 seconds because I, I wasn't really like out cold.
You know, I was out, but I was, my eyes were open and I was there, which is even crazier.
So I get up after like 45 seconds a minute.
I'm standing up and talking to my coaches.
And I'm, you know, they're talking to me and I'm, I'm there.
You see the interaction.
I'm there.
I'm talking to them.
But your brain's not on yet.
I mean, it's almost like, boom, you're rebooting a computer, shut down.
You have it turned on.
Your computer's on.
You see the Apple sign or whatnot, but it's not necessarily firing the way it needs to.
You're not sending emails.
You're not sending emails at that point.
You're still waiting for it to reboot.
So that whole process is autopilot.
I'm in there.
I'm talking to my coaches.
That's autopilot.
I shake his hand.
I give him his props.
I walk out.
I'm in the back.
I'm in the doctor's tent.
It's all autopilot.
I'm there.
My family's there.
I'm like, tell them I'm good.
Yeah, everything's fine.
Good, good.
Boom.
They're like, all right, yeah, you look fine, but just for precaution, let's just go in the ambulance.
Just going to the hospital and just get a scan just for precaution.
Fine.
I don't know why.
But we're in there.
All this is probably a 15 to 20 minute transition.
I'm sitting in the ambulance and I get drag my jacket and they take off.
So we're in the ambulance.
And so they're doing their routines.
I'm just sitting in there with me and my manager and they're doing the routine and they're asking, okay, so do you know, you know where you're at?
And it's at that moment I remember actual thought, not what I've been, not what I've seen or what I've been told or what I've, because when you see it, you start to put yourself there.
But remember actual thought.
Like, do you know where you're at?
I'm like, yeah, of course I know where I'm at.
Yeah, I'm in Salt Lake City, UFC 278.
Like, okay, do you remember?
I'm like, oh, shit.
Oh, no.
Were you in Salt Lake City?
Damn, I'm in an ambulance.
Oh, my God.
That can't be good.
So that's when it comes to you.
Damn.
And I think I've even heard, I haven't seen it, but even Michael Bisping, after his knockout versus Dan Henderson, when Dan Henderson knocked him out, which was a vicious knockout, by the way.
He was in the showers, got ready, and then he's asking him, yo, when are we fighting?
When's the fight?
Oh, wow.
So he didn't even know he had finished fighting and all of that.
This is all you got to respect these guys.
Can I tell you a quick Bisbing story?
And this is actually a question for you.
So I'm at a hotel in New York, a high-end hotel, and I'm there with a girl at the time.
The room next door is Michael Bisbing.
And he's there with his buddy, and they're like locked out of their room.
Long story short, we end up like getting some bottles.
I knew some other people at the hotel.
I'm partying with Michael Bisbing and his buddy.
It was just, it was hilarious.
So anyway, he likes to party.
Yeah, cool guy.
Cool guy.
Fun guy.
Lifestyle, right?
We just talked about boxing.
That's the work side of things, right?
So, you know, everyone's obsessed these days with work-life balance.
You know, I'm more of the 80-20 camp.
Work 80% of the time, 20% of the time, weekend warrior.
You know, you were at the Soho house party we did a week or so ago.
It was sick.
It was awesome.
Saw you on the roof.
I saw you at the tent.
You're having fun, people.
You know, everyone's having a good time.
How do you manage your work-life balance?
When do you party?
When do you train?
When do you live your life?
How do you handle all that?
It's a tough, it's a very tough thing to do, you know, especially when you're or you're an athlete, I guess, a public figure.
Now, it's difficult.
Like I said, I was never into the whole famous thing, being seen and all of that.
So I don't spend that much time in Miami.
I've been living down in South Florida now since 2012.
And I've probably been in Miami less than 50 times.
But you're in Boca?
I think you've been to the hijinks before.
I'm in the Palm Beach area.
Okay, gotcha.
All right.
But it's, yeah, I just partying, but just going out, having dinner, going to a bar, having a good lifestyle too.
So that's what you, you know, you always want that.
That's what I was like, oh man, I want to get to where I could just eat wherever and do whatever.
And I like that.
You know, I love to be able to take my kids and my, you know, my lady and my friends, you know, to hang out.
But it's, it's different now because everywhere you go now, there's a phone in your face.
Yeah.
Someone has a phone in your face.
So, and what people don't realize is, especially when you deal with like people like, obviously, Kanye is an extreme, you know, extreme measure, but that takes away from the enjoyment of it all.
Like you can go, you can go somewhere.
Like you said, with Bisping and you guys are just partying, just having a great time.
That's great.
You know, it's an intimate moment.
You guys just killing and hanging out.
That's fun.
But as soon as someone pulls the camera out into, it just destroys the fun because it's like, why do we need to document this?
This is documented up here.
We're actually living it.
We're having a great time.
So people aren't necessarily living to live anymore.
They're living for what I can show other people.
And that takes away from it.
And it makes me just want to stay in my house.
I was always been a homebody, anyways, but I don't enjoy it as much because as soon as I'm sitting there eating and I'm having a great time and then you look over and someone's recording you now, it changes.
Don't you have to take the good with the bad?
Like, I'll give you a scenario.
You know what's even worse?
You're sitting there at a dinner and zero people want to come up to you.
Nobody recognizes you.
No one wants to take a picture.
I love that.
But that means that you didn't really reach your star status.
So, you know, it kind of comes with the territory, doesn't it?
No, for sure.
It comes with the territory.
But at the end of the day, like we mentioned earlier in the show, we're all human beings.
We still want to be left alone because I'm a human being.
And yes, I could be the biggest star in the world, but I'm still a human being, which, you know, my dog might have passed yesterday.
My grandma might have passed or my aunt might have passed.
So I'm actually dealing with human emotions here and I'm feeling all those things.
And I don't necessarily want to be on camera right now, but you don't care because all you care about is the interaction that you dreamt up in your head that you would have if you actually ever got to see me.
So I think that the hard part is learning to balance that, which, you know, I think I've been doing a pretty decent job of is understanding that, yeah, people have this expectation of you when they meet you of who you are, how you are.
So being able to at least give them a little bit of that, but still being the human that you are.
I will say this from having talked to a lot of the guys in your world.
You seem very self-aware and you think with your answer.
You don't give the diplomatic answer.
You'll give the straight up answer, but you're also respectful about it.
So you're, I don't know if you have any desire to get into politics one day, but in a way that you communicate, it's very interesting the way you communicate.
It's different.
And respect you.
And by the way, this brings me to the last thing.
So this one video was going viral during this last UFC fight.
Can you pull it up?
The one where to get, okay, but play this clip.
I want to get because you've had some moments with the president, Trump, and Trump and UFC kind of go hand in hand.
So this guy's going around asking different fighters who they think would have won the fight between Trump and Biden, and this is what the response is.
Go ahead.
You got the audio because I can't hear it, Rob.
Do you hear it or no?
I don't hear.
It's up on our end.
I don't know why it's the production team.
Guys in the back, gank.
Do you guys in the back maybe test audio off and come back on and see maybe if that does that?
Sometimes this happens.
Trump or Joe Biden?
Oh, my gosh.
Donald Trump would knock out Joe Biden within literally five seconds.
Oh, Donald Trump would absolutely kill Joe Biden.
Joe Biden can't even get down the stairs.
Let me follow us down, and he's walking 100% Donald Trump.
I think Donald Trump off the top of the cage is just pile drives.
Literally, Donald Trump would knock him out with his lunchbox for hands.
If you've ever seen his hands, that guy is freaking massive.
And he used to wrestle, so he's a real fighter.
Yeah, probably too old now.
100% Donald Trump.
Joe Biden is too old.
I'm sorry.
Don't put punches face in.
You see, Joe Biden can't even ride a bicycle.
He's falling off his bicycle.
I mean, the guy can't even walk up a flight of stairs.
He wouldn't make it into the octagon.
Maybe he went to the wrong direction.
I don't know why.
Yes, Donald Trump KO'd Joe Biden within seconds, that old man.
And your professional.
What do you think of Trump and Biden got?
Oh, my God.
Are you going to give us a diplomatic answer?
What answer are you going to give us if those guys fight?
Well, a fight with both guys would be very expensive.
And so Trump understands this.
That's not a fisticuff type of fight.
That's a wallet fight at that point.
So I don't think we'll be seeing both of those guys throw hands.
But I think just Trump is just still a little bit more active.
I think so.
He's a little bit more active.
Really witty, witty guy.
Sharper than most people think because when you put the camera in his face, he comes off a certain way.
But he's sharper, much sharper than most people.
What's your interaction been with him?
Rob, play one of the clips.
I don't know which one it is that you got.
You found one of them.
Is this the one?
No, play the other one.
Play the other one.
What's that?
This one right here.
Cameroon Usman, where is your name?
Who's that champ?
Come on, champ.
Get up.
Man, oh, man, oh, man.
What a fighter you are.
I don't want to mess with him.
What's your relationship with him?
You know, I've met the guy.
You know, it's like I said, when that camera's on, it's, and the media paints whatever picture they want to paint of the guy.
Obviously, I'm not deep into politics.
I just know how it affects me and my pockets and my family with the policies and the laws that are being made.
And so it's difficult when the media is saying a certain thing and they're painting this picture.
And that's all you have to go on.
And so a lot of people just kind of follow what's being told.
But now being in the position to where I'm high enough to where I'm directly affected by those policies and some of those things that are being made, you know, now you start to kind of think a little bit more for yourself.
Like, wait, you know, this is what the media said yesterday, but they lied to us.
But this is what's really happening.
And so it kind of, you know, light bulb goes off.
And now you start to kind of really dive in a little bit more.
But my interaction with him is, he's always been cool with me.
And let me touch on this.
It was when he was president, there's, of course, he, you know, like, I don't want to say he's not the best communicator when he's in front of that screen.
He's not the best.
The message doesn't come across the best way possible.
And so this picture is painted of who this guy is.
And so you feel a certain way.
You know, it hits your heartstrings a lot different.
And especially the time where the world is going through so much chaos and so many different things.
And so then getting to actually be in front of the guy and actually, you know, hear the guy.
And I'm one of those that I hold a man by his word.
So if you say certain things to me, then that's what I expect.
And it was a lot different than definitely what I expect because I, you know, at some point, based on what the media is painting, I expect to give him a piece of my mind.
Like, this is how I feel.
Interesting.
And then it doesn't go quite like that.
So then you start to kind of, I think that's a skill as well as being a man and you start to kind of be able to assess and reevaluate what you might have thought and be open to knowing that, you know what, I can't change what I was thinking and my views on someone.
But, you know, definitely was a lot different than what I was expecting.
I was expecting him to be a lot slower than he actually was.
But he was very witty and smart.
He reminded me a lot of my high school wrestling coach.
They remind you of your high school wrestling.
Oh, yeah.
They're very witty with words, very sharp about the environment, what's going on.
They know.
And so that's what really shocked me.
Were you more of an Obama guy before Trump?
Of course.
Of course.
I'm not going to lie.
100%.
Just based on the representation, based on what he meant, you know, was big.
So by that alone, default, I was an Obama guy, you know, but then you, like I said, when you get to a certain level, you ascend to a certain level, then you realize how direct things affect you.
And it's like, well, I worked for this.
Why can't everybody else work?
You were an Obama guy.
Obviously, Biden was his VP.
By default, are you a Biden guy now?
Or how does that work?
Well, they say never discuss politics, right?
Well, because it's undeniable.
I mean, you can't deny it.
But I think, Usman, you answered it.
I think you answered it.
I think if the viewers listening, you gave the answer.
I think you went through a little bit of Usman.
I think you and Usman have.
I mean, look, me and Usman, we're the same guy.
Yeah.
But it is interesting, Pat, because it is a Jewish nightmare.
It's undeniable of this past three and a half or three years.
Like, it's undeniable.
And I think it's amazing that you're saying it, Kamal, that it's even if you're not really into the politics or anything, you feel it.
You see it.
It's embedded.
All the changes that are happening, we are not in good shape.
It's not getting better.
And I mean, we're not doing politics.
No, we're not.
I'm not going to go, bro.
I'm not going to be holding him.
I'm not going to be able to do that.
Can I tell you something?
I think America relates more to him.
And what I mean by that is like when I first got into sales, you know, we've always voted Democrat.
It's always been what we were.
I'm Armenian, Assyrian.
We're from Iran.
It's like, you know, the rich or Republicans are for the rich, the Democrats are for the poor.
And then you go into sales, you work, you're like, wait a minute, how come that if you're leaving home early and I need to pay for your stuff?
Why don't you stick around late and train for this?
I don't feel sorry for you.
Why am I getting punished for me working twice the amount of hours?
Then you realize, dude, no, man.
The same way in the gym, that guy's getting this and he's get a better locker than me.
And I'm here twice as many times.
Small little experiences like this, you start realizing that those policies just don't work.
And sometimes that takes a decade or two for some to figure that out.
Usman, this has been a blast.
Thank you.
Having you on, brother, it's been a pleasure.
Really enjoy getting to know you even more.
You're very interesting.
You're very interesting, very self-aware.
Like I said earlier, your answers.
You'll give the answer, but you're going to give the answer based on the way you view it.
And it's smooth, your answers.
But I really, really enjoy this, and I'm looking forward to doing it again in the future, brother.
Thank you.
Thank you so much for coming on.
Gang, take care.
I think we got a podcast rob tomorrow and we got one on Thursday.
It's actually Kobe coming here.
Is it?
Thursday, Kobe combined with the next one.
We got another 10 on Thursday and tomorrow home team with Emily Austin.
