Buck Sexton & Clay Travis On Elon Musk Destroying BBC Reporter | PBD Podcast | Ep. 258
PBD Podcast Episode 258. In this episode, Patrick Bet-David is joined by Buck Sexton, Clay Travis and Adam Sosnick.
0:00 - Start
18:48 - Clay Travis Stuns CNN Host "I Love The First Amendment and Boobs"
21:06 - Clay Travis Explains Why Andrew Tate Is Great For Society
26:24 - Why You Should FLEE New York
48:48 - DeSantis Strategy vs Trump Strategy
53:51 - Buck Sexton Reveals His Relationship With Trump
1:04:28 - Can Donald Trump Really Win in 2024?
1:29:41 - Who Will Be The Next US President?
1:33:56 - HEATED DEBATE On DeSantis
1:45:07 - Riley Gaines SLAUGHTERS WOKE Nike
1:50:31 - Elon Musk DESTROYS BBC Reporter LIVE
FaceTime or Ask Patrick any questions on https://minnect.com/
Follow Buck Sexton on Instagram: https://bit.ly/413JH8L
Follow Buck Sexton on Twitter: https://bit.ly/3GFhahJ
Follow Clay Travis on Instagram: https://bit.ly/3o8uBAn
Follow Clay Travis on Twitter: https://bit.ly/3zYw1jv
Get Clay's book "Republicans Buy Sneakers Too": https://bit.ly/43HoROn
Check out The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show: http://bit.ly/3GH9ifo
Want to get clear on your next 5 business moves? https://valuetainment.com/academy/
Join the channel to get exclusive access to perks: https://bit.ly/3Q9rSQL
Download the podcasts on all your favorite platforms https://bit.ly/3sFAW4N
Text: PODCAST to 310.340.1132 to get added to the distribution list
Patrick Bet-David is the founder and CEO of Valuetainment Media. He is the author of the #1 Wall Street Journal bestseller Your Next Five Moves (Simon & Schuster) and a father of 2 boys and 2 girls. He currently resides in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.
This world of entrepreneurs, we get no value to hate it.
Ideally running, homie, look what I become.
I'm the one.
Strike.
And so I went on a pudding strike.
Oh, nice.
So folks, I don't know if you heard that or not.
There's a major pudding strike going on that we're going to talk about.
But today's guests, they're kind of a big deal, both of them.
You know, I had a chance to communicate.
Buck and I were going back and forth, and then we had a chance to be on the show.
And then, you know, you guys have, you've been around the block for a while.
Your name is everywhere.
Everyone knows the Buck Sexton, you know, Clay Travis, Clay Travis and the Buck Sexton Show, whether it's sports, whether it's politics, whether it's boobs, whether it's LeBron.
There's a lot of different things going on.
I'm an expert.
You're an expert.
Yeah, I like that they can.
And, Buck, you being a CIA agent.
By the way, we just broke a record.
First time in a week, we've had two CIA officials, former CIA officers.
We had a baker on.
My man, I saw Mike.
I did Gottfeld show with him last week.
Did you?
Mike and I go way back.
Mike stud, full-on.
Mike is an interesting, fun guy when he comes here.
But today's about you guys.
Appreciate you guys for coming out.
Thank you for our show.
So, Clay, you know, for some of the folks, obviously we got stories to get into.
You saw what Musk did with BBC, destroyed him, and where he started interviewing the other guy.
We got stats that came out from New York City.
A poll talking about 27% of people living in New York want to leave New York.
I want to get your feedback because you lived in New York before.
We got some other things going on with this guy name.
I don't know if you guys are following this one guy named Joe Biden.
He's always saying stuff that we have to cover.
France is kind of talking about the fact that Europe's got to stop relying so much on America.
Is that a good thing?
Is that a bad thing?
Maybe we're financing everything they're doing.
We can talk about that as well.
California is on the edge after tech layoffs and studio cutbacks.
NPR quits Twitter.
Lots of people were heartbroken last night when that announcement was made.
Popovich wants gun control.
Cruz hits back.
NBA blames economy.
By the way, when I first read this article, what did I ask you, Rob?
I said, what NBA is this?
And you said, it is the National Basketball Association.
So I didn't believe it.
NBA blames economy for hiring freeze and budget cuts.
Giannis kind of opened up recently about what's going on with him, what went on with him.
Aaron Rodgers appears to have endorsed RFK.
Interesting to see that taking place.
And then we got Riley Gaines, Rips Nike for the partnership with Dylan Mulvaney.
And then claps back at accusations.
She spread violence at SFSU event.
And Joe Rogan had some butt light yesterday on the podcast.
I don't know if you guys can.
Oh, I didn't even see that.
He had some buttlight yesterday.
And he says, listen, product's a great product.
I want to have it.
It was so interesting the way he did it.
But that's Joe.
You got to love Joe for that.
So prior to getting into it, I know your story.
I've known your story for years.
But for the audience, if you don't mind taking a moment and sharing your background, that would be great.
We can start off with you first.
So I'm Buck, and I was born and raised in New York City.
I'm now a Floridian, though, a Miamian, part of the refugee wave from New York City to Florida as a result of COVID.
But taking it back a little bit for anyone in your audience who knows New York City, I went to Regis, which if you're from New York, you might know.
It's the only free private school in the country.
Then I went to Survey's on a full scholarship.
Then I went to Amherst College, came right out of Amherst, went right into the CIA because 9-11, New Yorker, American, did CIA from 2005 to 2010, deployed to Iraq twice, deployed to Afghanistan, went to some places in sub-Saharan Africa that I still don't really talk about and learned some interesting stuff from that.
Did a year at the NYPD intelligence division, and then Glenn Beck found me out of nowhere.
I was, so I was the CIA guy who had been in Iraq, Afghanistan, was working effectively in like as a consultant for the NYPD intelligence division because it's my hometown.
And Glenn's person emailed me out of the blue and was like, I heard about you.
We should have a meeting.
I swear to God.
And it was actually almost weirder than the original CIA recruitment stuff where I was showing up like abandoned office buildings.
There's like no one there.
But there is somebody there, you know?
All the way to the back.
Yeah.
There's like one guy sitting on a folding chair that you talk to.
Anyway, so Glenn brought me in the business at the Blaze 12, good God, 12 years ago now.
And yeah, and then from there, I started doing radio, started filling in for Glenn and then Sean Hannity, then Rush Limbaugh and did some other things along the way, you know, CNN Fox, all that good stuff.
And then they paired me up with Clay to take over as the official premier radio networks replacement, pardon me, filling the slot left vacant by the greatest of all time, Russia.
But unpaired, I mean, to follow that guy.
I mean, they're not going to just put somebody in that position that doesn't know what they're doing.
I remember when that announcement was made and everybody said, damn, that's a pretty big deal.
So, you know, obviously people that follow the space know how big of a deal that is.
Clay, how about yourself?
Yeah, to speak on what Buck said, I mean, I came out of the world of sports and you usually don't want to be the guy who follows Bill Belichick or Nick Sabin because usually the standard is so high.
And I think that's why Julie Talbot, who's our boss at Premiere, put the two of us in as opposed to one person.
So I think it automatically shifted the dynamic as opposed to this guy is trying to fill the shoes, as we've said.
And Buck said, I think pretty well, you know, we can each fill one shoe.
And it's a different show.
And I think that was super smart by her.
But I, look, I was an attorney.
I grew up in Nashville, went to George Washington and D.C., went to Vanderbilt Law School, graduated, moved to the Caribbean.
And I practiced law down there for a couple of years at the biggest law firm in the Caribbean, 13 attorneys, by the way, in the U.S. Virgin Islands.
And while I was there, I had what I would call a quarterlife crisis where you look around, and I know there's probably a lot of lawyers out there.
Some people say, oh, you get your law degree.
It's amazing.
But every lawyer I've ever known that I really like has always got a plan to get out of having to practice law.
Really?
Yeah.
At least in my experience.
Why is that?
Why is it interesting?
I mean, I think because when you're in law school and when you're working up towards that, what I always say is law school, you get to debate big, important issues.
You get to study the most seminal cases that have ever existed in the legal process.
And then your first year, you're 25 or 26 years old and you sit in front of a computer and you do doc review.
And so it is not this few good men, a time to kill caliber experience.
And I think a lot of young lawyers sort of have that gilded, this is going to be amazing.
And you make a decent living, but it's an awful job, especially as a young lawyer in my experience.
And even I always say, and this is my advice to anybody out there who's young and think about it.
If you don't want your boss's boss's job, you should find something new to do.
Don't just look directly above you.
Look at the person who's your boss's boss.
If you see what they do and you're like, ah, this doesn't really have that much appeal to me.
There's nothing wrong with doing a job you don't love.
Everybody has to do it.
But if you aspire to truly love what you do, then if you don't want to do what your boss's boss does, that's the next 10, 15 years.
So you don't want to own a law firm.
You don't want to run a law firm.
I didn't want to run a law firm.
And so I practiced law for a few years, started writing online.
I worked and I was in the world of sports.
So probably the reason why I ended up writing online is speaking to being a young lawyer and everybody I knew graduated with was a young lawyer.
You're hoping to find 10 or 15 minutes of entertainment on the internet during your day.
You're not happy.
You want to go click and go read this article or whatever.
So I started writing hopefully funny, amusing, humorous articles online about Southeastern Conference football.
I was a monster, still am college football fan, football fan in general.
And that led to, I did that for years.
Eventually was making $100 a week at CBS Sportsline.
If you remember that website back in the day, CBS Sportsline.
Yeah.
What year was that when you were there?
I started writing there in 05.
Did you work with Peter Madden?
I know that name.
Yes.
Very interesting.
But so they were based here.
Yeah, they're right here down the street.
Yeah, down the street.
They paid me $100 a week to write that.
$100 a week.
So after years, I'd made $5,000 at that point a week, sorry, a year.
And I was still practicing law full-time.
That eventually led to, they got me up to, I think, to 35 or 40K.
And I thought I was like, this is amazing.
Then I went to Deadspin, if you guys remember Deadspin back in its heyday.
This is kind of early web, you know, I would say almost 1.0.
I had good timing.
You know, the blogosphere was just kind of taking off.
And then I was at Fanhouse.
I got fired.
They shut down the entire, if you guys remember the fanhouse business model.
They shut down everything.
Everybody got fired, whole place.
And I started a website called the Outkick in 2011.
And I sold that to Fox two years ago.
And so slowly I moved from, hey, let's rank the top five quarterbacks.
I did national sports talk radio.
I did local sports talk radio.
And then when COVID happened, March, April, May, June, our audience skyrocketed and it was not sports.
And so our boss, Julie Talbot, when Rush passed, came and said, Hey, the data reflects people just want to hear your opinion, not just about sports.
How was that?
How was that to hear that people want to hear your opinion on politics, not just sports?
Was that an easy transition for you?
Well, I loved the show that I did.
And it was early morning Fox Sports Radio.
I was on 6 to 9 a.m. Eastern.
And I think this is where having the kids, you start to pivot and think not only about yourself, but about the larger world.
And I love talking about who's going to win the Super Bowl or who's going to win the NBA play, but it doesn't matter, right?
It's all 100% entertainment.
And so whether schools are open during COVID or, frankly, whether kids can go play high school sports, because you guys probably know, and I know Buck does too.
I got lots of people I know who wouldn't have had success in life if they hadn't gotten to play on the right high school team or have the right coach, especially boys.
And so I was just so fired up about finding ways to play.
And sports had become more and more, unfortunately, intertwined with politics, I would say, really kind of taken off with the Colin Kaepernick protest and that whole world that it was like, in many ways, you were talking about politics when you tried to talk about sports.
And so I remember Julie saying, and this is true, we're very fortunate.
We have basically the biggest radio show in the country.
She said, look, you could have the best and biggest sports talk show that exists in the country.
And I think you're on track to be able to do that.
It would still be a pinprick of the influence that the audience that you're going to be able to talk to in Rush's time slot would be able to influence.
The first time I filled in for Rush was, I think, so I was a guest host for him for years.
Just to Clay's point, I think it was 2014 or 2015.
So it was a ways back.
I made this sort of proclamation.
I'm like, I'm going to respond.
Anyone who wants to email me, you know, I'm going to respond.
You know, because I was used to doing, I started doing digital radio before I was on terrestrial radio on the weekends.
Yeah.
I had a stream on the Blaze.
I was super early in the sort of podcast stream space, relatively speaking, and then transitioned to terrestrial, which is kind of not the way people usually do it.
But I was used to, I told Clay this because I also, I was a writer for theblaze.com and I was doing Blaze TV and Blaze Radio.
So I was doing all three of these at the time.
This is when I got my start.
And I could actually see, did you have a chartbeat or one of those things?
Oh, where you could actually see.
I could see during my show, like there'd be nine people listening.
This is when I first started.
And then I'd talk about something and like a couple would drop off.
And I'm like, oh man, I just lost 30% of my audience or like 20% of my audience or whatever.
So it would like kind of freak me out a little bit.
But, you know, I always found that it was interesting to see that radio seemed to bring in the people who just had the most content all the time.
Like that was my impression coming in, like people who had the most to share.
Because, you know, TV, you have people who are amazing and people who are relying on the story.
What stops you more?
Which audio stops you more?
You know how, you know, the other day I'm at a church and this guy comes up and he says, you're the TikTok guy.
I'm like, dude, I'm not a TikTok.
That's awesome.
I'm not a TikTok.
I would say this.
That's awesome.
One guy at UFC is like, you're the jeweler.
That's right.
You're a jewelry guy.
You're like, one watch video.
Just one thing I forgot to say was, Clay, I said I would respond.
I spent like six hours responding to emails from doing Russia's show once.
I've never seen anything like it before in my life in terms of the platform and the connection.
What was the number?
20 to 30 million I would hear, right?
What was that?
That was the reach on a monthly basis.
20 to 30 million was doing it.
And what we've seen too since then, and yeah, the reach is still amazing.
I think we have 500 affiliate stations nationwide, roughly.
But also now we've layered on top of that the podcast, which is, and Buck and I are, Buck likes to make fun of it.
He's three years younger than me, which totally old man.
Look at all the grain in that beard.
I'm the last year of Gen X and he's one of the first years in the millennials.
So that's why I'm so much more likable.
But, you know, then you layer on top of it tens of millions of downloads.
And what we found, I'm sure you have seen it too.
It's funny.
You say, oh, you're the TikTok guy.
There was this initial fear in radio that you would cannibalize your audience.
And what the data actually reflects is people come now from so many different directions.
So you're asking a really interesting question.
Like, what do people recognize?
Because I did four years of sports gambling daily on FS1.
So like when I came in, when I'm flying to Fort Lauderdale yesterday, or thought I was before the flood, I 22 inches of rain, by the way.
Go ahead.
It's unbelievable.
I go through and the guy checking my ID is like, man, who you got tonight in the NBA playoffs?
And then so I, you know, give him picks and I went one-on-one.
So whatever.
But I felt bad.
He was like, if you go 0-2, I'm going to blow you up on Twitter.
I was like, I know, buddy.
Trust me.
And then get to the airplane and people are like, man, can you believe what Macrone said about, you know, I'm sitting waiting to get on the flight and somebody wants to talk about Macrone.
So it's kind of, people come from different directions with their own perspectives.
And that was always kind of my goal.
I wanted them to want to talk about Game of Thrones or, you know, what's going on in politics or, you know, whatever would be on the front page of the newspaper, top of mind.
So you asked a really interesting question because it's something that I learned from years of seeing it play out, not just with me, but with other hosts who are friends.
The people who know you from TV tend to recognize you.
The people who know you from radio know you.
They will hug you.
They will come up to you and they'll talk about your dog or they'll come up and they just, because they spend so much time.
Now, granted, I haven't hosted a show on Fox, so it's different from people just from, but I mean, if they see you on TV doing appearances, they're like, oh, I like your content.
If they're spending two, maybe three hours a day with you, five days a week.
I mean, we always joke.
I spend more time talking to Clay than anybody in his family with the possible exception of his wife, right?
Imagine the older people.
I'll definitely talk more to you than 15 hours.
I mean, you talk 15 hours to your wife?
I mean, now that I've got people who recognize you from TV, do you spend a lot of time at senior homes?
Is that kind of what you do?
Wow.
Is that what's going on?
I mean, that's a good shot.
But I'll tell you this.
I mentioned I had three boys.
I took a picture of your 1 million YouTube thing in the lobby because all my boys watch is YouTube.
They watch sports, live sports with me.
And then everything else they do, YouTube.
So when I show them that 1 million, I got to meet Mr. Beast a couple of years ago.
He's like 160 small, small YouTube channel, no big deal.
But my kids, I mean, I would imagine it was like getting to meet Elvis in 1960, you know, to them.
I think Pat brings, I think he was kind of joking with you about your audience in a senior community, but the landscape has changed, right?
TV, cable news, older audience, radio.
My first job out of college was in radio.
This is 2002, 2003, Clear Channel.
Yep.
It was the king of the hill right there.
Rob worked in radio for, I don't know, forever.
I think he even had a radio show at one point, did you?
ARLA, yeah, with Hugh Hewitt and those guys like 15, 13 years ago.
Forever ago.
But now the landscape is YouTube, podcasts, and things have changed, right?
Oh, yeah.
What have you seen the biggest difference been?
So the demos are obviously different from podcast, YouTube.
I mean, you know, I would say TikTok, which has kind of replaced Snapchat in the, you know, in this hierarchy or in this separation, that would be the youngest.
Right.
That's like the youngest demo for content.
And then right above that, probably you have YouTube.
And then above that, you have podcasting.
And then above that, you have cable news in terms of, you know, age stratification.
And then, you know, at the very top of it, I would say terrestrial radio tends to be an older, more established.
Newspapers above that.
I still get journals.
So the only two people I know on the planet who get the old school paper Wall Street Journal are my dad and Clay.
I know I like a buddy.
He's got the ninja moves with the actual physical paper.
But no, we approach it.
I mean, one thing that I was told because, so, you know, Glenn started the Blaze when he left Fox and he'd had that.
Remember that when he used to do the four E's and the Fox?
He used to crush it, by the way.
That show was, people wouldn't miss it at night.
So I was at the intelligence division, the NYPD, and I just remember all, we had all these screens up that, you know, some of it is like trying to stop terrorism, but also then there were TVs.
Then there were TVs of the news, and it would all turn to Glenn at five o'clock every day.
But one thing that he recognized very early on, I actually don't think he gets enough credit for this in the conservative space, is he was like, we just need to be present with good content everywhere.
So he was into podcasting, streaming.
I remember Roku.
I didn't even know what a Roku was.
I went to work at the Blaze and they had Roku for TV.
So in the early days of that, you could see that there were going to be a lot more ways for people to consume content.
But the good news is that it also means the audience is a lot bigger.
But then again, everybody has a podcast.
Like people come up to me now.
They're like, hey, I want to start a podcast.
I'm like, have you ever done a podcast?
I'm like, I mean, that's great.
Like, go for it.
But, you know, it feels like these days a lot of people are, everyone wants to be an influencer.
That's the term, an influencer.
Well, I'll build on, you mentioned somebody came out and said you're a TikTok guy.
So you guys, I don't know if you've seen this clip.
If you haven't, you should watch it.
Like four years ago, I went on CNN and said I only believed in two things completely, the First Amendment and boobs, right?
Live on the air.
They banned me.
I'm not allowed on CNN now.
Because you said boobs.
Because I said boobs.
Straight up.
It was my friend who banned him, by the way, but I didn't know him at the time.
So otherwise, I would have stepped in.
Just because you said the word, the contest was all over.
This was always the number one trending topic in America.
She wanted me to apologize.
I didn't do it.
The reason why I bring it up is that was like four or five years ago.
My oldest son, last year.
They've got it up.
No, they've got it up.
They've got it on the screen.
Yeah, there we go.
That's it.
Oh, man.
You play that?
First Amendment absolutist.
I believe in only two things completely, the First Amendment and boobs.
And so once they made the decision that they were not sports-related commentary, they came up with it.
Hold on, hold on.
I just want to make sure I heard you correctly as a woman anchoring this show.
Did you say, what did you say?
You believe in the First Amendment and BAAS?
Can't even say it.
Boobs.
Two things that have only never let me down in this entire time.
The First Amendment and Boobs.
First Amendment, absolutist?
I believe.
So you got canceled because of that.
Oh, they tried.
I mean, legitimately, they tried to get me fired off my radio show.
I mean, I owned Outkick.
So, I mean, that's one of the benefits, I think, of owning your own methods of distribution.
And I would say to anybody who wants to get involved in media, one of the most important things is you have to control, I believe, your ability to make money in some way because there is so much pressure out there on media entities that as soon as you get a little bit outside of the acceptable bounds of discourse.
But that clip that you guys watched, I think that was 2017-ish, 18, whatever it was, it suddenly went viral on TikTok.
And so every kid in my kids' school never knew it existed.
Got it.
Right.
Because they are like eight or nine years old when that happens.
Suddenly, every one of them had seen it.
Millions of people, it was all positive.
The kids loved it, but that was an audience that had never seen before.
I first saw your content on TikTok, by the way.
So there are a number of people.
So, I mean, I know we got from the podcast, obviously, but that's also how, I mean, I know you guys had Tate on, and, you know, he's now home, home confinement right at the media.
I've been reaching out.
We've been reaching out to his team for a couple of weeks right before the arrest happened because we want to have him on.
It's funny because I was like, it's like, look, this guy says really interesting stuff.
I know he's controversial and all that stuff.
And obviously he's facing these charges now.
But Clay and I talked about it.
We hadn't brought it up before.
I looked at him.
I'm like, I'm like, I see this guy on TikTok.
I think we should have him on the show.
I think it's really interesting, some of the stuff that he's saying.
And he's like, he's like, he's my son's favorite.
My two oldest boys.
Every now and then I'll go and I'll say like, hey, because I mentioned they're on YouTube.
They're wait.
How old are your boys, by the way?
15, 12, and 8.
Okay.
So the two oldest.
Teenagers.
I'm the low teenager.
Oh, yeah.
The two oldest.
I said, hey, if I could have anybody on the radio show, who would you like me to have on?
And they both instantaneously said Andrew Tate.
And then Buck brought him up like the next, you know, two or three days later.
Happenstance.
But I think it speaks to there's a lot of boys out there.
We've talked about this on our show that feel lost in this sort of toxic masculinity era.
And so they're looking for, that's why I mentioned coaches earlier, but that masculine influence who can teach them how to be men.
And I feel like his individual, like, hey, just go do more push-ups and stop being a pussy.
Like that actually connects a lot.
You guys remember with 13, 14, 15-year-old boys.
Yeah, there's no question about it.
And I asked the question when I said, like, who's the audience?
When people come in, they'll talk to me.
I'll say, so how do you know about us and what we do?
Oh, I watch Valutaine all the time.
I said, do you watch the podcast or just value teammate?
Which podcast?
Okay, great.
So you're more the value teammate audience.
How about yourself?
You know, I watch the podcast and I listen, you know, through Spotify.
Okay, so Spotify, interesting audience.
What do you do for it?
I want to know what the background of these guys are.
TikTok, if I go to school with my kids, their kids will, their friends will stop by because they're TikTok audience, right?
Snap audience, I can't really find a Snapchat audience.
There's Instagram, there's YouTube, there's Spotify, there's, you know, TikTok, but it's different.
If I go on Fox and I see who stops me, I'm on a Dan Bongino show.
And next thing you know, the following day, hey, you know, I saw you sitting on the Dan Bongino show.
It's okay, that makes sense.
Older crowd.
It's a very different crowd.
But the thing when you're starting out, I think is you got to, when you're newer, not you guys, you guys, you guys are, at this point, your vets, you're running the show with the biggest eyeballs.
You took a spot that everybody wanted.
Everybody was fighting for that spot.
I remember the whole talk was, this guy's going to get it.
Is he going to get it?
Is I going to get it?
No way.
Thank God.
That's insane, right?
Everybody was talking about that slot.
But when you start out, it's important to have a very niche audience to start off with.
And then gradually, as you go wider and you talk other opinions, people say, damn, you actually can talk about that stuff?
Can we hear more things like that?
Kind of like what you were talking about earlier.
The thing about radio, I said, like the people come up, and I literally mean that.
Like if someone comes up and they're like, Buck, and they hug me and I don't know them.
They listen to me on radio and some have been listening for 12 years.
It's crazy.
I mean, there's some people there have been, I know of a couple that's married because they both listened to my show and through hashtags, they found each other.
I swear to God, guys in the military found each other, found lovely lady as well.
Just because they love the CIA.
The most impressive thing for some of the people that listen from TikTok is when you said you transitioned.
That's becoming very common nowadays to transition.
And it's impressive that maybe you started that seven years ago, eight years ago.
I like to think that I'm a guy who adapts very quickly.
That's part of the trading, part of the CIA training.
And plus, we had understanding of how to shake.
My name is Buck Sexton, and I've transitioned from CIA to media.
You're just going to clip that on TikTok.
That's going to be a fun transition.
But just real quick, you're talking about all these platforms.
It also is, it's a business strategy, but it's also a survival mechanism.
And we saw this particularly during COVID.
I mean, survival within the business because now everyone really understands what some of us had been shouting about for a long time.
We've both dealt with this event.
I mean, you showed Clay trying to cancel.
I've been throttled, suspended, kicked off, accounts shut down.
And it was all really over COVID stuff.
So now people understand that you've got to be on, you know, on YouTube, on Rumble, on Spotify, all these different places, because if you go all in on one place, they will turn the lights off on you for political reasons, for nonsense reasons.
Right.
Not for anything that anybody.
So that's why I think also being multi-platform is is kind of a necessity now for for almost everybody who's in the business.
More than being a multi-platform individual yourself is who's running those different platforms.
Like one of the best things that happened is Spotify backed up Rogan, okay?
Musk bought Twitter.
Yep.
And Rumble is growing.
Those three things are very, very good for content creators because just two, three years ago, one person in Silicon Valley canceled you.
99 other people canceled you as well, similar to what happened to a couple of guys that we both know about.
All right, let's go into some stories here.
You're from New York.
Okay.
Article came out yesterday from New York Post.
Nearly a third of New Yorkers want to move out.
This is after all the 330,000, you know, the numbers that we've all read about and how many people left.
Nearly a third of New Yorkers want to move out, fed up with crime, housing costs, poor schools, and more.
If you look at the bottom with stats, New Yorkers are so worried about crime, sky-high housing cost, and struggling schools.
27% of state residents said they want to move away in the next five years.
A survey revealed a stunning 30% of respondents who also cited inept political leadership and soaring taxes as reasons for wanting to flee said they already long to live somewhere else according to Sienna College Research Institute.
Quality of life poll.
Nearly a third, 31% plan to leave the Empire State when they retire, while even more said they believe it's not safe for kids.
Angela Gutierrez, 38 of East Harlem, is one of the New Yorkers who will soon ditch the state.
The more and more you looked at the stats, I mean, this was a place that everybody wanted to be at.
Bottom stats, I'll read to you and then I'll turn it over to you guys.
67% of residents in New York wasn't affordable, while only 30% said it was.
49% of respondents said New York fair or poor when asked if it's a place where they feel safe from crime.
Only 51% gave an answer of good or excellent.
Crime surged during the pandemic.
60% of New York is not a good place to retire, while 38% said it was.
57% said the political system doesn't work.
I mean, I can go on and on and on and on and on.
What do you think is really happening in New York?
Because when I talk to New Yorkers, they'll say things like this.
They'll say, no one's going to leave New York.
No matter what they say, no one's leaving New York.
This is the place to be.
This is the mecca.
This is where everybody comes to.
What's really going on in New York?
People who say that are unfortunately delusional.
So I'm born and raised in New York City.
Both my parents were born in New York City.
Three of my four grandparents were born in New York City.
So we go back quite a ways in NYC.
I grew up in a New York, just for the purpose of the audience to understand what has happened here, because New York went through an incredible, really almost miraculous fix and now has been ruined again, effectively, or is in the process, I should say, being ruined.
So when I grew up in New York City, which is early, like, let's say early 90s, 1990, New York had over 2,200 murders.
Okay.
People go back and they always, they say there's no way.
You can check that statistic.
It was 22 something, over 2,000 murders, which when you think about what we're looking at now in different cities, I mean, New York went from 2,200 murders.
Giuliani comes in.
There's this whole change in the approach to crime and criminal justice and everything.
By the time I'm graduating high school, New York is now looking at, can we get below 300 murders?
Think about that.
From 2,200 people gunned down to in a decade or so, you're like, can we get it to like 250, 275?
So that happened, which was phenomenal.
And New York, I do think, obviously 9-11, but actually the response from the city to 9-11 and the, it was incredible how fast the bounce back was from the biggest attack on our country since Pearl Harbor.
And obviously it's what led me to the CIA and trying to, I literally got out of college and I was like, I want to help find bin Laden and kill that SOB.
Like that was my mission in life.
I went to work for CTC and the CIA.
So New York was this amazing place.
It got super safe.
Clay always says in the show, and it's totally true, that you want to be able to live in a place where your wife can go jogging at night and you don't even think twice about it.
And I'm telling you, New York in the 2000s, from let's say 2000 to 2010, 2011, before de Blasio, 100% the case.
So then you get de Blasio comes in.
The problem is New York City had been so safe, so wealthy, and was the mecca that those people talk about that it seemed like it was, you know, an unsinkable battleship of awesomeness, right?
It's just, oh, okay, we can have, we can raise taxes.
We can start to do things that are, we can go a little more lax on crime.
Let's get rid of stop and frisk.
Let's change some of these policies.
We've made it safe.
We don't need to keep doing these things anymore.
And it started to deteriorate.
What they don't realize is that there's a momentum to these things.
Not only did you have de Blasio at the top pushing effectively socialist policies in New York, but then you also bring in, and I had one of my best friends in the world was in the district attorney's office for like over a decade.
So I was always talking to him about this and I worked at the NYPD.
You start seeding, they talked about the Soros-backed prosecutors.
Yeah, you also get leftist radicals, not only in these different activist groups, but also they start working for city government themselves.
They start coming in.
They start pushing this ideology more.
And then as the city began to deteriorate, you could see that they were still hoping, well, you have to be here.
That's the thing about New York.
It was kind of like Hollywood and LA and Silicon Valley, right?
Those places where they got you.
There's almost a monopoly on the industry.
Well, COVID comes along.
So even though there are people like, this is getting, it's getting dirty.
It's getting unsafe.
It's way too expensive.
They got rid of the salt deduction.
COVID comes along.
And now you realize you're actually ruled over by totalitarian morons who don't care if they create misery and economic destruction because they think that this is what social justice looks like.
New York is going to take at least a decade, if not decades, to recover to what it was based on the damage that was done, particularly, I'd say, in the last 10 years in the city.
But COVID just sent it all into overdrive.
So that's how it all broke down.
I felt fortunate because I lived in Nashville, just south of town, and it was like COVID didn't even exist.
You know, I mean, I spent, I came down here.
My kids were out of school, you know, March, April, May.
And I came down to Florida and we spent May because I was like, how often are the kids going to be out for the whole time?
We'll just spend a month at the beach.
But I think I went up to visit where Buck lived.
And New York is great, not because for most people where they live in New York City, but because when you leave your apartment, you can experience the city.
And what COVID did was take away the experience.
And a lot of people were like, this is kind of a shitty place to live if you don't have the larger experience of the city.
And then on top of what Buck said, I think a lot of people then made choices that they never would have if COVID didn't happen.
And they said, okay, I'm going to try to do my job and I'm going to go outside of the city.
And what they found out was I can be just as efficient outside of the city as I would be otherwise.
Because you would have never suddenly, if you got a successful business, you never would have made the choices to try things that you had to do during COVID.
But when you did, I think what happened, and I've been on this for a while, COVID made red, redder, and blue, bluer.
And it accelerated what I think has become very much of a national divorce.
And I'll be honest with you, if I had been living in New York City or LA, when I started Outkick, to Buck's point, everybody said, you can't run a media business from Nashville.
You're going to have to move at some point to New York or L.A.
I think that's totally false.
I think there are a lot of different cities now where there's a lot of talent in it.
Miami, South Florida is one.
Nashville is one where I live.
Austin, Texas is one.
And people realize that they could be based anywhere.
And so the allure of New York City, when your kids are having to wear masks for years, when your kids are having to live remotely, when you're cramped in a tiny little apartment, you can barely get outside to walk a dog and you can't take your kids to a park suddenly wasn't there.
And I think it's going to take a while because now people have experienced other things.
Buck, you know this.
I'm one of these people.
Yeah.
You're like, wait a minute, I can, a million dollar place in New York, I get, you know, 700 square feet on the 28th floor of a building, or I can be in Boise, Idaho, and I can have a monster house, right?
And I think it caused people to experience.
It was a poison boise.
Oh, yeah.
It caused people to experience new things.
And so I think the result is red's redder, blue, bluer.
And I think we're just starting to experience that conflict of what that's going to create.
I also think that during COVID, and this was a big part of why I decided to move and leave.
And I do thank Governor Ron DeSantis for what he did during the pandemic.
I was one of those people.
I mean, I was actually the one who tweeted during the pandemic early on that leaving New York City for Florida was the closest thing you could experience as an American to leaving East Germany for West Germany in the 1960s.
I mean, you went from, you know, being at LaGuardia Airport where there were actual National Guard soldiers standing like, what are they going to, they're going to shoot the virus?
And the whole thing was insane.
They're taking down information for test and trace, the dumbest program in the history of the universe.
I remember arguing with doctors about this.
I was like, guys, test and trace.
This has never worked anywhere.
This is insane.
And they'd say, it works for STDs.
Well, yeah, because when you ask, you know, you would think that's a little bit easier to figure out, right?
But there was a mentality, there was a psychosis that took over the leadership class there.
You came down to Florida and people are splashing around in the ocean.
They're going to restaurants.
They're living their lives.
I'm like, what the hell is going on here?
And then I realized, oh, the 90% of New York City residents who voted, or it's like 80% actually, but 90% of Manhattan is Democrat.
80% of the city is Democrat.
They're part of the apparatus now.
They're okay with this.
Like they've been so brainwashed that I actually reached the point where I was no longer just angry at at the time the mayor of New York, Bill de Blasio.
I was angry at the people who were shouting at everybody to wear masks outside because what was wrong with them?
Like what had happened to them?
Fellow New Yorkers, we're supposed to have this like tough, we don't take any guff, you know, any BS from anybody attitude or whatever.
No, we turned into a bunch of triple masking, you know, wimps who were begging for the government to protect them and do all the, it was crazy.
And so I'm angry about what was done to the city, and I'm actually still very angry at the people who were in charge across the board.
What a point to say that.
You know, New Yorkers are known to not back down, and now you're just doing whatever they're telling you to do.
Impressive, Adam.
Impressive research over there.
Yeah.
Well, look, I think Clay's absolutely right.
Sort of during COVID, the red got redder than blue got bluer.
Born and raised in Miami, so welcome to Miami officially there.
Awesome.
Thank you.
You know, I love New York City.
I'm actually going this weekend.
And I mean, I would never move there.
Yeah.
But spend a week or two there hanging around in the city.
Still my favorite city.
I love it.
Just everything that kind of comes with the city, the price attached to living in New York City, it's kind of insane.
You said you can get a million dollar house in Boise for you, get a million dollar shoebox in New York City.
You know, I actually went during COVID.
This would have been when we were in Boca, this would have been 2021.
I do a lot of man on the street interviews and I went around and I started interviewing everybody in New York.
Basically, this was when $30 billion of tax revenue left the city.
And I went just talking to average people.
Like, so did you stay in New York?
Why'd you leave New York?
What would you consider leaving New York?
And you get a wide variety of answers.
But, you know, the common themes were taxes are insane, right?
The cost of living is insane.
Just basically the prices are insane.
And it's one guy was like, listen, maybe just people aren't tough enough to stick it out in New York.
You know, the old Frank Sinatra, if you can make it here, you can make it anywhere.
But I think, you know, I've seen so many people because I used to work in nightlife and every basically winter, Christmas, New Year's, like the New Yorkers would come and us South Beach promoters were like, all right, let's charge these mothersuckers double.
And I would see this love affair with Miami and South Florida from all the New Yorkers.
And we would see them kind of tiptoe each year, like, all right, yeah, one week this year, one month.
And then I'd be like, when are these guys going to freaking wake up and realize you could just move here?
Yeah.
And I think COVID basically was the impetus for them to get the hell out of here.
What you hit on, and Buck and I have talked about this.
It's not just people leaving.
It's the people that have the most resources that are leaving.
And, you know, the difference between 13 and 14% tax in California and in New York and where you guys are in Florida, where Buck is now, and where I am in Tennessee, we have no state income tax.
Same thing in Texas.
Let's just use those three as an example.
If you make a million dollars a year, that's $130,000 or $140,000 extra in your pocket.
That's a million.
Imagine if you make $10 million or $100 million.
I don't understand.
I mean, just being quite honest, I don't understand why anybody who is wealthy, and I mean supremely wealthy, would ever make their residence in New York or LA.
And I think COVID, some of those guys were like, well, I've got so much money at stake.
I've got a hedge fund.
I got private equity.
I've got to be based here.
Suddenly when COVID happened, those guys took chances in terms of where they lived that they never would have otherwise.
And their revenue didn't change.
And then they're looking at it now and they're like, why would I ever give a government 14% for the privilege of living?
Maybe that's why your Knicks suck, man.
Everyone looks at the contracts going on over there.
It's like, why the hell would I move to New York?
I grew up watching the Knicks.
And it's funny because one of the things that you're doing.
Ewing, Larry Johnson, John Starks, those are your guys.
Dom squad?
Are you kidding me?
The Oak Tree?
I remember all of them.
My brother had an Anthony Mason jersey because his name is Mason.
So it said Mason on the back.
Like, we love the Knicks growing up.
I have since stopped watching both the NBA and the NFL for reasons that I don't think are.
What do you mean?
You just don't watch the New York Times.
I will not watch anyone.
I will not watch.
No.
Straight up.
For politics.
Yeah, I won't do it.
Everything that happened with Colin Kaepernick and the bubble and all of the social justice stuff, you're just not into it, won't do it.
Wow.
Don't watch.
And you were a lifelong sports guy?
I mean, I grew up, yeah.
I grew up actually playing a little bit.
I wasn't very good or anything, but I grew up playing.
Because you just couldn't get that helmet on your head, bro.
Well, it's funny you say that because I avoided helmet sports specifically because I didn't want like, even this is going to give me a headache if I keep it on because my head's too big.
But yeah, so I stopped watching sports.
I did grow up, though, going to games, Yankee Stadium.
But I mean, Yankee Stadium, just to give, you showed that thing.
It was like my dad would have a talk to me.
Like, I remember when I was in Afghanistan, like before we would go out, you know, in the city and you get together, you get together with our guys.
These GRS guys who are all, you know, they're SEAL special forces Delta guys.
And they're trying to, if you've seen 13 Hours, right?
Of course, those guys.
So I was, if you see that movie, I was one of the guys that they're sort of with, you know, they're the shooters and I'm there to, you know, have the meeting or talk to people or whatever.
But we'd have this conversation about like, well, what are we going to run up against here?
Like, what do we think the chances of IEDs or whatever?
It kind of reminded me when I was a little kid and my dad was like, we're going to Yankee Stadium.
It was everyone in New York was like, you know, it's really dangerous around there.
Like, we're not going to go walking around there.
And that was just considered.
You didn't go into Central Park at night.
If you went to Central Park at night growing up in New York City and you got robbed, it was on you.
It was like, what are you doing in the park?
This is the nicest park in the richest part of the whole city.
But like, if you went at night, you got robbed.
So those are, those are sort of the changes that I think happen psychologically in New York.
But also, like, you can get, you know, I was telling him this the other day, too.
You can find what you want everywhere in the country now in a way you couldn't before.
So in a lot of the big, like New York, Chicago, LA, they had just better food than other places.
I know people will argue about this, but they're wrong.
Like in the 90s, you know, a good restaurant in Nashville, no offense, was not a good restaurant in New York City.
Now it is.
Same level, same quality of food.
You can buy anything anywhere.
I made a joke on Twitter.
You could go on Amazon now and buy a tank.
I don't know if you still can, but it used to be your New York because they had the best food, the best shopping, and all the job opportunities you need.
And if you're a single guy, the biggest dating pool in the whole country concentrated in one place.
A lot of that stuff now doesn't really matter.
Don't you think there's a metaphor with kind of what you're saying about these cities with exactly what we were talking about with the podcasts?
And basically, you don't need to be in these mainstream legacy media companies.
You can just kind of have your own YouTube channel or your own podcasting channel versus you don't need to be in these major cities anymore.
You can just kind of do it from anywhere.
Yeah.
I mean, building on what Buck said, I remember going to New York City as a kid, the bookstores.
Like for people out there who are around my age, I'm 44.
You would go, if you grew up where I did in Goodlitzville, Tennessee, which is not necessarily the fancy area of Nashville, you went to Walden Books, right?
In your mall.
And Walden Books might have, I don't know, 15,000 books or titles or something in it.
And you would go, if you're trying to read something, and I was a huge reader, you would go there and you would hope that they might have a book that you wanted to read, right?
Clay went to Civil War camp, by the way.
I'm a history.
True story.
True story.
Legit Civil War sleepaway camp.
But then I remember coming to New York City and being like, oh my God, Barnes and Noble.
Like my thing that I was most impressed by in New York City wasn't the huge buildings.
It was all of the bookstores that were everywhere and being able to find books you couldn't get anywhere.
Now you go on Amazon, you can get any book delivered to your house in 12 hours.
I mean, I moved to Miami, what, I don't know, six months ago now, something like that.
I haven't been shopping once.
Everything just gets delivered that I need, right?
And so that's true now all over the country.
So it's kind of the Amazoning or Amazonification of the country has also changed.
I think one of the big advantages of being in a city, you know, for people who used to live out in more rural areas, even some of the suburbs, it's like, oh, like, gotta, you know, if you want to get something, you had to get in a car for 40 minutes, right?
Now everything gets delivered to your front door, so it changes.
And even pushing the remote concept backfired on a lot of these cities when New York City or San Francisco, oh, everybody can work from home for the rest of their lives.
Oh, really?
No problem.
I will work from home in Texas.
I will work from home from Florida.
Yeah.
Or Tennessee.
I'm not going to pay the taxes.
Not a problem.
We support your remote.
Now they're shitting Bricks saying, no, no, no, that remote work was just a idea.
We got to get back to the office.
This is not working out.
You know, commercial real estate's taking a hit.
This class A buildings are taking a hit.
So a lot of these ideas that they drove is exactly what backfired on them.
Well, building on Buck making fun of me for reading old school newspapers.
I was on the airplane yesterday reading my old school newspaper.
By the way, almost the only person now on the airplane who actually carries newspapers.
And to what you're saying, Facebook has fired, I think, 30% of their workforce.
And I know Elon Musk has wiped out 80% of Twitter's workforce, but they said many of the top managers at Facebook now, some of the guys are living in Europe.
Some of the guys, like they aren't, even top-level employees at Facebook are traveling sometimes back to Silicon Valley, but they're actually based in Europe.
So I think to your point, the challenge that a lot of these companies are having is one, we're finding out that they can do their work with a fraction of the people, right?
I mean, Twitter is running basically as effectively, it appears to me, on 1,500 employees as it was 8,000.
And I think Elon Musk has given a lot of these big tech companies knowledge of just how many people they employ that they don't need.
And just one more thing on the looking at the crime statistics.
I mean, people always focus immediately on homicides for obvious reasons, right?
It's the most serious crime.
And also it's very hard for that to be messed with as a stat, right?
People tend to know when there's a body when someone's been killed.
And that's not something that a city can hide.
Quality of life stuff, though, I mean, this is what you're really seeing in San Francisco, although there's violent crime there too that we've seen recently.
Quality of life crimes in pretty much every major city, which are all under Democrat control, not to make it too political, but it is political.
They're completely through the roof.
Meaning, just the day-to-day stuff, you know, people seeing open-air drug usage and the effective or actual decriminalization of drugs, needles on the streets, all that kind of stuff.
That makes people not want to go into the downtown, also.
So there's a snowball effect here of things just kind of keep getting bigger because the remote work is easier.
You can go to a low-tax place.
And also, I mean, do you want to go into downtown San Francisco these days?
Do you want to go into, you know, even like Times Square in New York has gotten a lot sketchier in the last few years?
You would think that, but they voted the same type of mayor in Chicago.
Yep.
San Francisco is not changing.
They voted a Democratic governor, although she almost lost to the other guy who was creating a lot of momentum.
What's his name?
The New York governor that was running up against him.
No, Zeldon.
Zeldin.
Zeldin made a name for himself.
They thought, hey, are you going to run for president?
Think about this.
Lee Zeldon wins.
Bragg gets fired.
Trump doesn't get indicted.
So that decision by those Democrats in New York not to go along with Lee Zeldon may change the history of the country in a pretty profound way as this legal issue for Trump plays out.
And also think about how much harder.
We talked about this on the show.
Those cities and those states only have themselves to blame.
And I think Buck's analogy on New York City is a great one from 2,200 down to 300 or 250 or whatever the murder rate went to.
It's because people in New York City got so fed up.
They said, okay, bring in Rudy Giuliani.
We'll elect a Republican.
We're going to have to shake up what we're doing.
They're so committed, the left-wingers are, that they just elected this guy, Brandon Johnson, in Chicago, for an example.
He, and we've talked about this on the show, got the support overwhelmingly from the highest crime areas, and he's basically a defund the police guy.
So one of the challenges I think that's going to be in play here is a lot of sane people have bailed and they're just not voting there.
To the point on Lee Zeldon, how many probably several hundred thousand would-be red voters have just said, I'm done with New York.
That's how we made Florida redder.
It's how DeSantis won by 19 points.
How much more challenging is it going to be for that pivot to occur because they're losing some of the middle-of-the-road sane voters that would otherwise have allowed moderates to win?
So let me ask you this.
We beat up New York plenty.
Let's go to the next topic, but it's within this topic.
So, you know, every election season, different topics matter.
Midterms, everybody talked about Roe v. Wade, bad timing.
It's McConnell's fault.
He did it intentionally to hurt Trump to show that, hey, by getting an endorsement from MAGA no longer means as much as it did before.
We got to go a different way.
We got to get a Rhino candidate.
Okay, great.
You go, Trump ran, hey, it's got to be border.
It's going to make America great again.
We've got to pay attention to the border, China, tariffs.
You know, everybody runs on something that's timely that people are interested in.
If you guys were hired to be the campaign managers or strategists behind closed doors for DeSantis or Trump, what would be the top three items you would be driving that the voters right now are most concerned about?
He wrote a book on this, so he's going to have to be able to.
My book is going to be out of this.
This is the entire topic.
So I'll just, I'll do an appetizer and he can do the entree on this one.
I think the border is an enormously important issue.
All these things have to be messaged the right way, and people have to really understand why it matters, as well as just the constant bringing this up and part of the national conversation.
I mean, I think the border, the economy is always, always top three.
So what could be done for the economy that would be better than what we've seen?
And I really also think as Ukraine is heating up, people that come forward and explain how we spent 20 years fighting in wars.
I was as a civilian CIA analyst, not a door kicker, but I was in a couple of those war zones, saw what was going on personally.
The fact that it feels like we've almost forgotten the lessons of what are we doing here and what is the strategy this quickly with this Ukraine mission creep.
It is a hundred percent mission creep that we have.
You know, it's always incremental.
So it feels like, oh, but we're not, you know, we don't have you.
Well, actually, we do have U.S. troops there as they've now come out as we go.
What do you mean by mission creep?
That it's just going to incrementally get bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger of a thing.
Exactly.
So it's not like we're going to be pulling out anytime soon like an Afghanistan situation.
We're going to be doubling down.
We are going to be supporting the Ukrainians against the Russians for years.
This war will go on for years.
And anybody who doubts that should remember that the war has been going on already since 2014 when they initially invaded the Donbass and then had the phony referendum in Crimea.
I mean, it was a referendum, but it was at gunpoint, whatever.
This has already been building for a long time.
This issue is much more important to the Russians than it is to us.
They will go to the mat on this one.
There is no, oh, Putin's under too much pressure.
The guy who takes over after Putin, he's not going to want to give up Ukraine either, whoever that would be.
So somebody who can say, I'm going to keep us out of a war.
We're only going to war if someone's starting a war with us.
I think that would be very powerful.
And I think that's why Trump, by the way, in his recent Tucker interview, focused so much on that foreign policy piece.
Secure the border.
And then I know you said three.
I'm sorry.
Economy, we could all agree.
And the other one would be crime.
Crime is huge.
Republicans are up 10, up 12, up 15, depending on the poll you see against Democrats in crime, because they've basically decided to legalize crime as part of social justice initiatives and all kinds of crazy left-wing abolish the police ideology.
So that's what we got.
So you mentioned DeSantis and Trump.
Let me actually start with Biden.
If Trump is the nominee, Joe Biden, my concern is, and I think it's true, Joe Biden's entire record won't matter because his entire campaign is going to be, I'm not Trump.
And most of the time, elections are referendums on the incumbent.
My concern is Trump versus Biden 24.
The entire story is going to be Biden saying, I'm not Trump and those suburban college-educated white women who overwhelmingly abandoned Trump.
I don't know how Trump gets them back.
So if I were advising Trump, I would say your entire campaign has to be moms because how do you change?
What has occurred in the last four years?
If I'm advising Trump, you need to be running a general election campaign starting now and you have to appeal.
How do you get those people back?
That is the sole focus because Buck and I have talked about this on the show.
We certainly talk about it off air.
It's number one conversation.
Let's presume 81 million people.
Let's take the numbers that are out there.
81 million roughly voted for Biden.
Obviously, rig job, benefit of COVID, changing the rules, all those things.
I'm not, I don't want to have the debate, but 81 million, 75 million roughly for Trump.
156 million voters.
How many of those people are willing to change their mind in 2024 if we have a rematch?
How many do you think, actually?
A million?
Right?
I don't think that I think people are, this goes to the point on your voting Democrats, red, red, or blue, bluer.
I think people are so dug in.
It's like trench warfare in politics.
It's hard to get the lines to move at this point.
So what do you have to do if you are Trump?
To me, you have to convince all those women.
And this is why the abortion thing I think is going to play in because I think they'll also, they'll just terrify you.
You know, your daughter, she gets pregnant.
She's 14.
She's not, Trump's going to keep her from getting an abortion, right?
Like that's the, they're going to go after the suburban college moms, and it's going to be a challenge.
So I have a slightly different pathway for Trump if he is in fact the nominee on the Republican side, just because I think what Clay is saying about the numbers is obviously true.
I think Trump's ability to win back those voters is close to zero.
So the only soccer moms?
No chance.
They're checked out.
No chance.
No chance.
And I love Trump.
I mean, I think he's a great guy.
I mean, when I say that, I actually mean that on a more like personal level.
I think he's a great guy.
Clay and I have spent a lot of time with him.
I've actually known him and the family since I was a little kid in New York, too.
Not well, but I met him at different events and things.
He went to prom with Ivanka.
Oh, Bragg.
I can't do that.
Here was a prom.
Real story?
Junior prom.
It was like she was a friend.
I can't believe he just blew me off.
I know.
It's kind of, I would probably have two of the most interesting things that you've said so far he's talking about.
You can't give a shit about Afghanistan with opinions like CIA.
Exactly.
You'd have been like, he went to prom with Ivanka.
Looking at you in a whole different way.
Here, I thought you were this big-headed dude that just talks politics.
Now I know you got some gay.
Yeah, it was.
No, there's no photo of it online.
It was junior.
It was junior prom.
All right, it's prom, junior prom.
Junior.
You went with Ivanka.
Let's relax.
Bucks.
You're doing your thing.
So, yeah, I mean, Jared's a very powerful man.
By the way, they're down here in Miami.
If Jared is worried about who was his girlfriend, who his wife dates 15.
By the way, have you guys this total?
Have you guys gone to your wives or girlfriends, like high school reunions or college reunions?
Have you guys been to any of those events?
No.
Oh, well.
But this is an experience.
See who they dated, you're saying?
Yes, that's it.
I mean, I did have the LA Times reached out to me.
I saw the DM somewhere on Facebook, and they were just like, we've seen the photos of you at Ivanka at the Regis prom.
Like, would you like to comment?
I didn't even respond.
I was like, what am I going to comment?
Like, we were the 15-year-old kids.
There's like priests everywhere.
I went to a Jesuit school.
I don't even understand what we're talking about.
Like, yes, but not on the road.
It was funny, though, because she's a total sweetheart and a really, really nice, always has been a really nice person.
I didn't realize how much at the time it was, it actually was the other girls who were there who all, because she was really big in the like 16 magazine or, you know, whatever, you know, teen magazine, those kind of like fashion magazines for younger people.
Tiger Beat back in the day, man.
So she was taking photos with them for like, I was just like there by myself talking to Guys, like, yeah, you know, she's my friend.
She came, you know, she was not my girlfriend.
I don't want to like overplay this, but anyway, she's, she's a cool lady.
So I've known the Trumps for a long time.
Back to political analysis.
But I think Trump's a great guy.
I don't think he can win back those suburban moms.
I think the way that he wins is white working class voters who, for example, voted for Obama twice and then flipped in 2016 in the key states.
I think that's it.
You just got to win back the rust again.
100%.
He's got to get union guys with high school degrees from Wisconsin, Michigan to believe again and to show up for him.
He does that.
I think he can flip enough votes to do it.
If he can do the suburban soccer mom thing, I mean, then he's definitely going to win.
What about DeSantis?
If I were advising DeSantis, so let's go back.
This is the primary advice.
I think DeSantis has to go balls to the wall.
And I think he has to, you know, they just announced that Fox News is going to have the first debate in August in Milwaukee.
I think it's going to be on Rumble as well.
This August.
Yeah, this August.
There'll be the first debate.
I think that DeSantis has to say on the stage, you lost to Joe Biden.
You got your ass kicked by the worst president that any of us have ever lived through.
He's a joke.
You lost to him.
Call out Trump directly.
And he has to say, and if you're the nominee, you will lose to him again.
And DeSantis has to say, not only will I not lose to him, I will kick his ass.
So if you want a president who is a Republican, by the way, you could have me for eight years instead of four with Trump.
I think he has to go ball.
I can't tiptoe up to it.
And here's my thesis on that.
If he says that to Trump, I think Trump being called a loser will be so furious about the fact that he gets called a loser that Trump will go back into his, they stole the election.
This is why I lost.
And I think that doesn't have the same resonance.
And I think a lot of people want to win so badly.
DeSantis' play is: I'm an electable version of Trump.
I will be a more disciplined version of him.
You saw the way that I responded to COVID.
I didn't defer to Dr. Anthony Fauci and everybody else as long as Trump did.
I think he has to go right after him.
Because here's what I'll say.
Trump is way better in individual, like if Trump, if you had Trump and DeSantis in this room right now, or just to meet all your staff out there, I think people would be like, holy cow, Trump is amazing on the just grip and grin, the shake, the individual interaction.
I don't think DeSantis has that same charisma.
Yeah, why would he?
Trump's been an icon for 40 years, 50 years.
He spent his whole life.
He spent his whole life shaking hands and chatting with his family.
His daughter went to a prom with our friend Buck over here.
That's a big deal.
So I think the Iowa and New Hampshire thing that will surprise people is Trump's really good going into McDonald's and like shaking hands and kissing babies.
I'm not sure DeSantis is going to be, but that's a risky proposition for DeSantis, by the way, because if you go all in after Trump in 24 and he loses, how does that impact things in 28?
Will people remember that and can you even think that you got to go six years in the future?
But I think sometimes people don't.
You kind of got to go with what's right in front of your face.
They don't go balls to the wall because they're worried about the future.
If he wants to win, he has to basically burn the ships behind him and say this is it.
So I think that it depends on the Trump approach to dealing with DeSantis once he gets in, which I think is likely to be, based on what we've seen so far, just total scorched earth.
Although I do know some people who are in Trump world who are saying they're a little surprised that some of the, they're so used to Trump insults just crushing people, right?
Like Lil Marco and Low Energy Jeb and go down the list, right?
Crooked Hillary.
Probably the best.
I mean, that one line might have won him the 2016 election.
He's so good at that.
But even ardent Trump supporters and voters, when he says Florida's always been great, Ron DeSantis didn't do a good job.
They go, ooh, wait, no, Like, that's not a thing.
You know, there are other things maybe you could say or criticize or go after him on, but saying that Ron wasn't good during COVID, some of that starts to feel like he's insulting the intelligence of the people who support him the most and people like me who voted for him twice.
You got to say things.
You know, they're going to hit each other, right?
But it's got to be a clean fight in the sense that, you know, I know it's going to be tough, but it's got to be a clean fight in the sense that it has to be based in some form of.
So you guys are part of the camp that you believe Trump doesn't beat Biden, but you believe DeSantis could beat Biden directly.
That's not, I think Trump, to go back to your point, if I were advising Trump, I would say start running the general election now because I think he minimizes himself when he goes after DeSantis.
What I had hoped Trump was going to say in Mar-a-Lago right after he got indicted and had to appear for the arraignment, I wish he had said it's time for all Republicans to come together.
I won't say a single negative word about Ron DeSantis.
I'm focused on Biden.
He's the enemy.
Yeah, he elevates himself and he wins.
That's the way I see it.
You know, there's no chance he's going down the street.
No, but he should.
You know that.
I think that's the way that he could win.
My concern is, you guys watch Game of Thrones back in the day?
Yeah, like 10 years ago.
You didn't watch Game of Thrones?
Oh, my God.
He just watched one show, House of Cards.
That was it, right?
That's it.
Wow.
Game of Thrones.
So Game of Thrones, we've talked about this on the show.
You have trial by combat.
The benefit that Republicans have right now is you know who your combatant is.
In theory, it's Joe Biden.
He's a shitty fighter.
He should get his ass kicked.
My concern is if Democrats can pick their opponent, they're trying to put Trump in the ring against Biden because they think they can beat Trump.
And so Trump has to be more sophisticated than he was in 16 and 20 to win.
And I feel like so many people, to Buck's point, have a preconceived conclusion of Trump.
I think DeSantis would smoke Joe Biden.
I think it's going to be huge.
So here's the problem, you know, and you lay this out.
My biggest criticism of Trump when he was president had to do with that it was a no-criticism zone, even from the people who were all in, all in on Trump.
No one wanted to hear it.
No one in the White House around him wanted to hear it.
Nobody in the media wanted to hear it.
You couldn't say, hey, I don't know if this is the best approach or if this is the best.
And the place where you saw this the most was the people that Trump in term one surrounded himself with to be, you know, different advisors, cabinet positions.
He has now even admitted, I mean, this is a disaster, right?
I mean, he had Scaramucci and Amarosa and Mike.
And wait, which one is the singer?
Which one is the national security?
Michael Bolton.
He had John.
John Bolton.
Thank you.
I was going to say he had Michael Bolton as a national security advisor.
Michael Bolton is back in the day.
Yeah, he was huge.
I celebrate his whole catalog.
But they've all defected.
Well defective.
Bill Barr now.
Here's the problem.
Bill Barr, we talk.
I know Bill Barr.
Bill Barr is as smart a lawyer as you will find anyway.
Anywhere, Bill Barr was not disloyal to Trump.
There was no point at which he was disloyal to Trump.
He just was loyal to the law and his job and loyal to Trump.
And people gave him all this heat.
I know about what was going on right after the election in that DOJ in the Attorney General's office.
He was turning over, he was turning over every stone.
He was going in, getting screamed at.
Now, he's written about this in his books.
Everybody knows this, by Trump saying, you know, find this, find that.
He's like, sir, we're looking.
We're looking.
I'm trying to, what do you want me to do?
Like, we're trying to find it.
I'm having people investigate.
Who's going to go two things?
So there's a no-criticism zone, which, you know, whether it's in business or politics is bad.
And there were things that didn't get done that should have gotten done.
And the first step back, by the way, was a disaster, which no one really wants to talk about, but it was because you see what's going on with crime.
It actually helped the left get more and more aggressive on what's happened in all the cities we're talking about.
But who's going to go work for him this time around, given what happened to everybody who worked from the last time around?
Who's going to be around him to advise him who will tell him the truth?
By the way, there may be answers to these questions.
He may bring in great people.
He may have a new approach.
He may have learned a lot from the past.
But for me, those are big issues.
And it's especially on the campaign side.
Who's going to run his campaign?
I hope it's not who ran it in 2020.
I got a question for both of you guys.
So let's say, why did he lose last time?
Why did he lose last time?
2020.
Why did he lose?
Oh, man.
So I'll go first on this one.
Okay.
So that's such an interesting question.
There are, of course, a lot of people who voted for him who say he didn't lose.
He didn't lose.
That's their belief.
And to that, I just say.
That's not where I'm going by.
No, no, no.
No, I understand.
I'm just saying there are a lot of people voting that's their approach.
And I just say to them, they did rig the system, but Joe Biden is president.
So it doesn't really matter, right?
So that's where I come from from the perspective of I'm dealing with the reality today.
Okay, why did he lose?
He lost because other than all the dirty stuff the Democrats did, which we could talk about for a whole show on its own, he was basically missing an action for about six weeks at the beginning of the BLM riots.
And this all happened on Trump's watch.
There was about a period there from the beginning of June, right after George Floyd, till middle of July, where the president was effectively not really doing anything.
And I think that left a really bad taste in the mouths of a lot of voters who had come out for him.
And also on COVID, which that becomes very complicated because it's like once in a century pandemic or whatever, he didn't fire Fauci.
He didn't do as much as I think he could have done.
He's still like the spokesperson for DeSantis.
But that's true, though.
What have I said that's not true?
The conversation about Fauci.
But I guess, let me ask the question a different way.
Would he have won?
Say COVID never happens.
He wins a landslide.
Landslide.
Okay.
Why, though?
Why does he win by landslide?
Because I've spent a ton of time looking at all the data on this.
So first of all, let's start with the numbers.
He came so close, and I don't think we talk about how close it was.
And when I say what you asked, you think Biden would beat Trump.
I don't know.
I think we'll be up till 3 a.m.
I think we'll be up till 4 a.m.
I think we'll be waiting in 2024 for weeks to find out what's going to happen in Arizona.
What are the, you know, when is the fire alarm going to stop going off in Fulton County?
Because it's going to be right on the margins, just like 16 was.
20,000.
And I say this on the show, but I think it's so important.
If 20,000 people change their vote, 20,000, that's one NBA arena in the entire country out of 156 million people who vote in Wisconsin, in Georgia, and in Arizona, Trump's president.
Okay.
So with COVID.
Even with COVID.
But I'm talking without COVID.
Without COVID, he wins a landslide.
He's bad of a landslide.
I mean, to the extent that you can win a landslide.
I mean, I think he would have won Pennsylvania.
I think he would have won Michigan.
I think he would have won every state.
He would have flipped some additional state.
And I think he may have flipped Minnesota.
Perfect.
I mean, so I think it would have not been.
And here's my question.
That's why your question was so hard, just to be fair, because it was the, you know, once it was like the asteroid hits the earth scenario.
Let me tell you why I'm asking this question because, you know, It's so hard for all of us.
You guys are smart.
There's plenty of smart guys out there that are presenting their argument, right?
Here's what I think.
There's all of us, we have a stubborn side and we have an open-minded side.
Some of us have a bigger, stubborn side than the other one.
Some of us have a bigger, open-minded side than the other one.
It's good when it's a good balance, but I think you should still stick to your core convictions, yet be open-minded.
I think that's a good host.
Yeah.
I think that's somebody that you listen to, you're able to.
So, okay.
So, if he would have won by a landslide if COVID never happened, and he had already fired a shit ton of people.
So, for that point to say, well, you know, so many people just didn't want to go, you can criticize him.
Yeah, I agree.
You can jump.
You can say this because everything had to be perfect, like under his watch.
It's as if he can never make a mistake.
I agree.
That's that's a weakness.
But, but he still would have won a landslide, even he did, yeah.
Okay, so what else did he do?
The economy was great.
This was great.
We have borders, no war, no ISIS.
You know, ISIS used to be a topic of discussion.
If we did podcasts right now, six years ago, all we're talking about is ISIS, ISIS, ISIS.
We don't talk about ISIS.
If you were to go search how many times you talk about ISIS, you don't talk about okay.
So, how about we go to Afghanistan?
We talk about Ukraine, Russia, would that have happened?
The trade to China, how he bullied them, he got them in their place.
Hey, Huawei, lady CFO is in Canada, is doing deals with Iran, Huawei can no longer do business in the U.S. 33% stock.
So, there were so many of these things that was going on that you felt like, okay, we can't be bullied.
I kind of like this, and there's no war, economy's good, I'm growing, I'm doing business.
Now, you know, we had Giuliani on, I don't know what it was, last week we had a live podcast.
It was Giuliani and Dave Rubin.
It was great because Rubin is more DeSantis, and Giuliani is going to be loyal to Trump, which makes it a very good show where we can kind of go back and forth, you know.
And Juliani is, well, let me tell you, you know, what happened with the rigged light?
I'm like, yeah, it's just not attractive, you know, to me.
Because, you know, when my kids complain about losing at the other person cheated, you don't get anything from me that weekend.
That's not attractive to me.
I've lost because others cheated.
And, you know, get stronger, get better, do any of that stuff that you got to be doing.
So for me, the thing, and I'll turn it over to you.
If he would have won with a landslide, with no COVID, landslide, there is no COVID today.
Zero.
COVID is gone.
Okay.
Should he not win by a landslide today because America would be okay with his policies?
How much has changed between the landslide take out COVID than today?
So this is going to annoy me to say, but I think it's true and it's proven by the data.
So I'm not happy with this reality, but I think it is a reality.
You know, I would gladly vote for Donald Trump again, and I think he'd be a very good president again.
But everything that you're setting up for this historical counterfactual, you also have to put in there what does the whole January 6th thing do?
Not for me, because I think the media is completely overplayed and they call it an insurrection.
And I know what an insurrection looks like.
I was in the CIA.
It wasn't an insurrection.
But they do this because they think it's effective with moderates and independent.
Well, it was effective in 2022.
I hate to, that's that's what you look at the candidates who didn't win, who should have won, and they were all focused in on the election and they were too tied to that aspect of the people.
They have no credibility today.
They did Russia for three years and they stopped talking about it after Durham came out and they silenced you.
I agree with you, but I'm saying it's, I'm telling you, the January 6th thing is going to make it harder to win independence the next time around because there's this fatigue with people.
They're like, oh, so the media is going to do the propaganda, the craziness.
Let me flip the question on you.
So what are independents tired of Biden with?
What are independents sick of Biden with today?
Let me flip it on you and just ask this.
Okay, flip it back and forth.
81, let's assume that the voting is accurate.
81 million people voted against Donald Trump.
Sure.
They did not vote for Joe Biden.
We could drive around anywhere in South Florida and find the Biden voters.
None of them liked Joe Biden.
There were no Biden signs on anybody's law.
There's no Biden bumper sticking.
If Joe Biden had a rally, if Joe Biden had a rally in Miami, nobody is showing up.
So my question, this is what we were hitting on earlier, that I think everybody out there, if you objectively look at it, is we live in a world where people make up their mind.
And I appreciate what you're saying.
You have a core set of values, but you're willing to look at the data and change your mind.
That's not most people.
Those 81 million people have convinced themselves on some level that Trump is Hitler, right?
So in order for Trump to win, you have to believe one of two things.
You asked the question, how many people are actually persuadable?
Let's say 156 million people voted.
maybe a million people are actually willing to change their votes.
Basically the same people that voted for Bush, that voted for Obama, that ended up voting for Trump, that aren't going to vote.
There's like one million.
You've voted up for independence to deliver.
If you're going to make, I do believe in 20 without COVID, Trump wins big.
But I think that the situation has changed in 24 because all of those people have now come in and they have put themselves in the camp of, hey, I am of the opinion that Donald Trump is wrong.
So you have to get those people to change their mind.
Or you have to convince me, and maybe you could, that way less people are going to vote in 24 because it's not going to be as tumultuous of an election.
I don't buy that.
I'll put this out there because I've said this on the radio show, Patrick.
I'm going to challenge you guys as an amateur.
No, no, go for it.
We are going to challenge you.
If they rolled out Joe Biden drooling on himself with a blanket across his knees, every Democrat that you and I know who voted for him the last time around will come out and vote for him again without exception because they vote.
They vote on the vote.
Look at Fetterman.
Fetterman is the perfect example of this.
They vote for the party machinery.
They do not vote for the candidates.
They didn't even speak.
They do not care.
He won by four points in one of the biggest talks.
And you know why?
By the way, we're going to lose Pennsylvania again.
I have a couple of friends who have run for Congress there and Senate there.
And we're going to lose Pennsylvania again because the Democrats are better organized, better funded, and pay more attention to how to win in that state.
Whereas we have a lot of big voices who are saying, oh, but we should all vote on Election Day.
The Democrats in Pennsylvania and other places are how do we maximize our efficiency in getting the most votes counted, legally or illegally, if they can get away with it, whatever, it doesn't matter.
They're just trying to win.
All right.
So let's look at this.
What's changed?
So we have all agreed here, including yourself, if COVID doesn't happen, Trump wins by landslide.
We've all agreed on that, that Trump's going to win.
Electoral landslide, by the way, doesn't mean that he might not have won the popular vote, but he would have won more than 100%.
Of course, he would be president, is what we're saying.
Totally get it.
So fine.
So, and we all agree that COVID is not the main issue, top five issue today, not even top 10 issue today, as it was two years ago.
No, three years ago.
Thank God.
There should be, by the way, a reckoning.
I'm glad we totally missed.
There's not.
So that main issue that we were all obsessed with for two and a half years, or let me rephrase it, we were forced to be obsessed with for two and a half years, that's gone.
That main issue is gone.
No problem.
Let's see what has changed in the last three years on top of what you just said.
You're saying, well, you know, you have to realize the January 6th, the this, the this, the that.
No problem.
In the last three years, a guy named Elon Musk by Twitter, in the last three years, a guy named Joe Rogan, who was a pot-smoking, you know, psychedelics, ayahuasca UFC guy that was willing to vote for Bernie Sanders says, yeah, to save things, you got to vote Republican.
Yeah, no one in a million years would have guessed he would say that Elon Musk would have said that, and now they own it.
Now, Rumble's creating a ton of momentum.
And on top of that, let's see what else has changed.
Let's see what else has changed.
We didn't have this shit with transgender stuff a few years ago.
Okay.
So, so let me get this straight.
You talk about moms.
How many moms have daughters, whether they're Republican or Democrats?
50% of it.
Let's just reuse the number 50%.
Every other sex that's born, it's a girl.
Okay.
How many daughters are sitting there talking to mom and say, Mom, but I can't beat him.
But I can't beat him.
I don't know how to beat him.
Okay.
We didn't have that.
Now it's front and center everywhere.
It's okay.
Let him beat it because if they identify they can do this.
Moms are sitting there, Democrats, Republicans saying, I'm sorry, man.
I was a Democrat, Bill Clinton Democrat.
I'm even Obama Democrat.
This shit doesn't make any sense.
I'm not a Democrat if I have to subscribe to this.
This is out of control.
Let me continue.
Let me continue.
This is me that you're describing, except I'm a dude.
So I'm going to continue, and I'm going to, you got three boys.
Imagine the mom with a girl, right?
So I got two boys, two girls.
You're thinking, dude, you ain't going to do that and embarrass my daughter as a freaking guy.
Get the hell out of here.
What are you talking about?
What happened to protecting women?
That creates rage, right?
And I'm not willing to allow you to bully my daughter.
It doesn't matter politically.
I'm still daughter over politics.
I believe moms are daughter over politics.
Fine, let's continue.
This Dylan Mulvaney stuff that's going on, even more stuff.
Education, you're trying to teach my kids about gay, you know, whatever, first grade, second grade, third grade, kind of weird.
Okay, let's give the Roe v. Way to the other side, which has changed.
That's massive.
I do believe that is massive that we've had in the last, I think, January 6th.
People are like, listen, I get it.
Yes, a year ago.
I don't think people are going to care six months from now.
I don't think they're going to care 12 months from now.
So where I'm going with this is the following.
I have a whole different view with DeSantis.
I think DeSantis is a stud of a guy.
And I think DeSantis needs a different marketing team.
And my criticism for DeSantis is not policies.
My criticism for DeSantis is more marketing than it's anything else.
So for me, when I sit there and I think about that, I say, okay, you say a lot has changed, but I think a lot has changed to favor him, not to hurt him.
I think a lot of people that wouldn't have voted for him three years ago are sitting there saying, dude, I lied to you, man.
I can't stand that freaking guy.
But let me tell you, this Hillary Ronin lady who's in District 9 of San Francisco board, who just two years ago said, hear me out.
I am about defunding the police.
And now she's crying, talking.
Nobody showed up.
They're not putting the funds in.
We need more cops.
You're no shit, Sherlock.
And she just got off of Twitter yesterday because now you realize the amount of hypocrisy that people, even in San Francisco, Nick Sarah Foster comes out and says, What the hell are you talking about?
These are liberal politicians.
As a liberal myself, she's saying, These are the policies.
That's shit we didn't have three years ago.
So to me, all I'm saying is, I'm not saying you're right or you're wrong.
All I'm saying is none of us know yet fully what's really going to be the turnout.
But I don't think it's that campaign they're like, well, I just don't think he's going to beat Biden.
I just don't think it's going to be Biden.
I don't think we all know yet.
So a few thoughts that came to mind when you're talking about this additional perspective.
One is I shared the sense that January 6th was a nothing burger in terms of the way people would vote until the midterms that we just had.
And then looking at the data for who came out and who didn't, there were a lot of college-educated white voters specifically, often independents, but even some sort of soft Republicans who wouldn't come out for candidates in Arizona and Pennsylvania and places we needed to win that were, you know, January 6th and Trump, I think, are kind of obviously very tied together.
So that was what the data showed there.
So I was, I feel like I was wrong on that.
We were making jokes about it.
We're like, they're having these hearings.
It's so stupid.
There were people taking photos.
I'm not looking at it for, oh, it's so, you know, I can't believe in Trump and everything else.
I'm just saying they ran this game plan.
I think it worked pretty well from the last time.
I'm worried it would work for them again in the national.
Whether that's true or not, by the way, I agree with you.
No one can predict the future.
And anybody who says they can is living in a fantasy.
The data right now also, and the polling, the problem with the polling is in 2022, and we got caught on the wrong side of this.
Unfortunately, I think everybody did.
We thought it was going to be a much better election for Republicans than it was.
Polling is obviously a little bit sketchy, but right now, all the polling pretty consistently shows Donald Trump losing in a head-to-head to Joe Biden, whereas it doesn't show that with Ron DeSantis.
So I think there's something there.
Again, it's not, you know, it doesn't prove the card.
Sure.
Let's buy the polls, okay?
Which obviously polls historically have always been right.
We have to try.
So, but let's play that game with these polls.
No problem.
If they're right and you're the Democrat, why the hell are you getting in the way of your enemy?
Let him win.
You mean let me explain.
Like, if you think these polls are right, why have this Alvin guy go out there and hey, you know, let's go do this and because he did this and let's go do that and because he did that.
No, no, no.
Hey, Mr. Democratic strategist polls.
You guys are so great at it.
You think Biden's going to beat him head on?
No problem.
Get out of his way.
So I think to your point, I think the strategy is they know that the charges help him in the Republican primary and they hurt him in the general.
So I think the chess move here is the charges make it more likely that Trump is the opposition.
There's a lot of people saying that.
And I think that is true.
And by the way, I loved and agreed with everything that you were just saying.
That was me.
I voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012 for much of my life before all the Democrats went insane.
I was a persuadable voter, right?
I look at the logic.
I look at the data.
Buck was reading this will when he was 14 years old.
William F. Buckley, wearing my boat shoes.
Yeah.
That's been the hardcore the whole time.
Radical moderate.
I was a radical moderate for much of my career, but Elon Musk has shared this meme.
And I think it, you know, like, I don't know, you guys have it where it shows you, like, if you'll pull it up for people who have not seen it, it kind of perfectly epitomizes my political evolution.
Like I was very, I've always been kind of middle of the road, rational.
I'm persuadable, right?
Like, hey, you make a rational, logical argument.
I'll buy into it.
Democrats have gone fully insane, which is why you're going to love the book that I've got coming out in August because it's all about, I'm super fired up.
I would hammer home if I could.
This idea that you can have a fucking dude decide he's a girl, sit out for a year, and then he becomes a women's champion is that shit insane, right?
I think there are lots of Democrats have become insane.
You want them to pull up?
Where it shows like a stick figure standing on the political spectrum.
And if you look at it, it's like, hey, here was me in 2008, and you might just be a little bit left of center.
And then the Democrats have run so far left wing.
You had it a minute ago.
They've run so far left wing.
That's it.
That's it.
That's the one.
That's it.
And if you zoom in on this, there you go.
2008, there's me.
Like, that's me.
I'm a little bit left of center, maybe, like, whatever.
And then 2012.
And then, like, now I'm a radical, like, Buck sees it.
I'm a right-wing extremist.
I'm a conspiracy theorist.
I'm a crazy man.
And I haven't really changed.
The country's gone insane.
And I also think that the.
Well, who does that benefit, though?
So who does that benefit?
When you say that, you know, a lot of people agree with that.
Dude, Musk would never come out and say vote Republican.
So how much influence does Musk have?
How much influence does Rogan have?
So think about this.
Let's actually process this together.
8175.
Okay.
8175.
Now, we both know who Rogan and Musk would get behind.
We both know who it is.
And it's DeSantis.
It's not Trump.
Okay.
But I do think they would vote Trump over Fox.
Yeah.
If it does come down to that, their number one is DeSantis over Trump.
We can all agree on that.
It's very obvious.
You know, hey, I believe the last age for you to run for office, 69 years old.
We all remember all that too.
Okay, fine.
We agree.
By the way, Rupert Murdoch would be in that camp too, right?
Like he's basically said DeSantis.
So Schwartzmann.
So's a lot of different guys.
Guys, the money guys.
There's a lot of guys that are in that camp right now.
Okay, fine.
So 81.75.
So the day comes, debate, August, Fox is over, say, boom, we have to pick and choose who it is.
It's Trump.
Okay.
So if it's Trump, we know if it's DeSantis, what's going to happen?
Schwartzman's going to get behind.
This guy's going to be.
Musk is going to get.
They're going to campaign for him.
The Rogan DeSantis podcast is going to be massive.
Okay.
Hopefully, if DeSantis have a marketing team kind of teach them how to connect with the audience because the one he did with Pierce was a flop.
Okay.
And his book didn't do that well.
I read the book.
I love the book.
But I said, how come other people are not feeling the same way about the book?
Right.
So then Trump is a candidate.
Musk and Rogan have a choice where they have to choose between Trump or Biden.
Yep.
We both know whether they want to or not, they're probably going to go Trump.
Yep.
Not because of Trump, but they're going to say, we're doing the same vote that people did in 2020.
We're doing that strategy, which is what?
Anything but Biden.
Okay?
Perfect.
How much influence do you think the richest man in America and the number one podcaster in the world has?
Not enough to switch the election.
What do you think?
Honestly, I mean, so you've got a there.
Why do they come to mind and why are they so important?
What are the numbers now?
What do you think the number is?
What do you mean by the number?
But they could swing for small.
Not very many.
Give me a number.
What do you think it is?
I mean, in the total of the entire U.S. election, I mean, not enough to even win a single U.S. number.
100,000.
You think that's small?
I think of the 156 million people who, and by the way, 156 million people who have already voted, right?
You think it's 100,000 swings with those two?
Because you have to convince people that they're wrong.
Yeah.
And the other part of this is that we're leaving out.
We're leaving out.
I refer to it as the apparatus specifically because of the Soviet connection.
But the Democrat apparatus in this country, we're talking about Elon.
You're talking about, okay, what about Zuckerberg?
What about Bezos?
What about Soros?
What about, I mean, go down the list.
What about CBS News?
What about 2016 and Trump beat those guys?
Now, that was a very specific set of circumstances.
I was actually a right-wing commentator at CNN when they still had those in 2015, 2016.
So I saw the evolution there.
They completely misplayed how to, they were running Trump live on CNN.
They gave him billions of dollars of free media because they thought he was such a joke, he was such a clown that it amused their audience, gave them great numbers, and he was going to.
They've been wrong before strategically.
They could be wrong again, but I'm just saying what they did in 2016, they didn't do in 2020, and they wouldn't do again, which is allow Trump to harn it.
People forget, they initially used fake news as really as an attack on Trump supporters.
They were believing fake news about the Russia stuff on Facebook.
That percolated.
Then Trump turned around and said, no, no, no.
It's not about believing some internet post.
CNN is fake news.
He was able to do this jiu-jitsu against the entire media apparatus that it's just they learned the lesson, unfortunately, in 2020, which is why they did all the suppression, all the things they did.
So, yeah, we've got our guys who are trying to help.
I think Elon is doing more for democracy and free speech in America than almost any other person you can think of.
But there's so much arrayed against, and when you look at the way they can even quantify this stuff, even like CBS, you talk about like the senior citizens watching cable news.
CBS news still gets like 5 million people watching a night.
And it is Democrat propaganda.
They've had four years, though.
They've had four years.
That's not a change, though.
Oh, I'm not saying it's not.
They've had four years.
All I'm saying is the change of what an Ilano Norworgan were three years ago versus what they are today.
And there's a lot of guys like that in the marketplace.
There's not just those two.
I mean, collectively, there's hundreds of guys like that in the comedy space, in the sports world, in the, you know, you're preaching my book because my argument is find things that 70% of people agree with and slam the Democrats on them all day.
Dudes deciding to be girls and kick people's ass.
The fact that I've been arguing this.
If I were Trump, I would go balls to the wall on defending comedians, right?
The idea that you can be offended by a joke is total bullshit to me, right?
The entire purpose of comedy is to push the bounds of acceptable discourse.
The idea that a comedian gets that Kevin Hart can't host the Oscars because he made a joke about a gay person or that Dave Chappelle can't say this because it's offensive to transgender people, like whatever.
The goal of comedy is to ridicule everyone evenly.
And if Trump could lean into that, if DeSantis could lean into that, find these things that 70% of people agree with and hammer them over and over and over again, then I think you can start to move things a little bit.
To be fair, I wasn't really, because you pointed out, you kept saying it's not different.
Okay.
But for example, the move even of the big, big donors to DeSantis instead of Trump, right?
A lot of that is just because there's a little more hesitation, a little more, ooh, I don't know, because of January 6th for some of those people.
I wish it were not true.
I think it shouldn't be true, but that is true, right?
I think most likely, by the way, we're going to get Trump versus Biden again.
Like if you told me right now, hey, you have to put money down on the debate.
And this is what I would say to you guys.
I'm curious what you guys think about this.
What's the number one worst thing about Biden from an election 2024 perspective?
Number one weakness.
Age and I think it's age overwhelmingly, right?
So so many people cosmetically make decisions on who to vote for.
78-year-old, that's how old he would be, Donald Trump on the stage against 82-year-old Joe Biden.
Number one reaction people are going to have is both these guys are too old.
Trump, even though he's far more in control of his faculties and the fact that Biden can't even speak, the age thing gets canceled out if Trump is the nomination.
I mean, I would just say, I told a big Republican donor just a few nights ago, we had dinner down in Miami, and they asked me, well, what do you think?
I said, I will not throw in for either side, either privately or publicly.
I won't.
I'm not, I'm either DeSantis or Trump, whoever wins, and I'm very open about that.
But I said, if you're asking me for odds as to who's going to win the primary, I'd give you two to one odds that Donald Trump wins the primary.
I agree with him 100% on that.
And then the second part of this is if you put DeSantis or Nikki Haley or somebody younger on the stage against Biden, I think those people win big because a lot of people out there just look at it and say, we can't have a president who's 82 years old.
Like Joe Biden legitimately, could Joe Biden do any job at your business?
Yeah.
I think it's even more specifically than Joe Biden.
That's the perception.
The persuadables, right?
Like, I'm voting for what I'm voting for because I've believed in the same basic principles since I was a teenager, effectively, and the Constitution and all this kind of stuff, right?
But for the people that could go either way or could show up or not show up, the age thing with Joe Biden, I think, could be big.
Because remember, they're not one issue voters on the economy or the board or anything else.
They're kind of thinking about a whole range of things.
And they look at this guy and he's, I mean, it's kind of sad.
I mean, he's decrepit, right?
But what we've seen with Fetterman is that that will not stop them one bit.
That will not stop them.
It comes down to juxtaposition.
If you've got a 78-year-old guy and an 82-year-old guy, it's like they've already been around the block a million times.
They're known commodities.
Everybody knows them.
You get a young, fresh Ron DeSantis on there, juxtaposition versus an old sleepy Joe.
It's going to be alarming to most people.
That's why I said trial by combat.
The benefit Republicans have is they know who is going to be a nominee.
And that's how Biden got selected.
They knew Trump was going to be in the ring, and they said he's the less dangerous.
By the way, I'll build on what Buck said.
We've got such a big audience on radio.
You asked the question about endorsements.
We don't ever want to be in the position of, hey, you should vote for this guy or that guy in a primary.
We're obviously going to be a billion percent behind Trump, DeSantis, Nikki Haley, whoever the nominee is, because Biden is such a disaster.
Right.
And so that's where we really kind of mark that audience.
I spend a lot of time reminding, because in our audience on radio, we have people who are calling in saying, you guys are way too pro-Trump.
And we have people calling in who are saying you're way too pro-DeSantis.
And they also summon it.
I'm never going to listen again.
You're too pro-Trump or too pro-DeSantis.
From both sides.
Every day.
We're getting this from both sides.
And I try to remind them, if you're a Trump guy or a DeSantis guy, you are someone who probably agrees on 90% plus of everything happening in America today.
You're on the same team.
You're just trying to figure out who the captain of the team is going to be.
That's going to get a little lost during the primary.
I know it's big boy stuff.
I understand that.
But I hope that people keep that in mind as we go forward here because, you know, what you don't want is to get in a situation where someone is so damaged and so hobbled from the primary that they actually kind of limp into the general, right?
Or Trump runs as a third party, which is everybody's worst possible.
That's the worst possible scenario if somebody else runs.
my ideas are a whole different thing.
Like I'm, I'm waiting for the sentences camp to really, you know, sometimes you think you have a lot of time to create momentum.
You don't.
Their camp has a shot.
They have a shot.
But when's the last time you heard a story about that?
But he's not a candidate yet.
It doesn't matter.
You still start marketing.
There's many people that weren't candidates that they were branding and marketing way before.
Well, the book wasn't attempted at that, but I think your point about that.
But he didn't do a good job promoting his book.
I'm sorry.
That book was a lazy method of marketing.
Go on so many.
That book should be in top 10 for six straight months if you would have gone.
Has he gone on your podcast?
Has he talked to you guys?
He's on radio, but not in a while.
Not in a radio.
So let me get this straight.
You guys replace Rush, and he hasn't come on to you.
I understand you don't want to come here because I challenge all the time.
You guys support him.
You replace Rush.
He hasn't been on your podcast.
How?
He came on.
He came on.
By the way, and here's my question before you defend him.
Since the launch of the book, I'm trying to remember.
Since the launch of the shot, he came on the day the book released.
There we go.
And did he promote the book?
Yeah, for 10 minutes.
I mean, he was on for a 10-minute hit.
That's not really, but that's not really.
No, I mean, you're preaching to the choir.
I think he is so marked.
I think he is a strong leader.
I think he has an incredible resume.
I don't know why they're not telling the story.
It's almost as if he's not going to run.
If you're not going to run, then I support it on what you're doing.
Maybe you're not going to be running and that's your strategy and none of us know shit.
Fine.
But if you are going to run, what's he going to do if he gets on your podcast for an hour?
All he's going to get is nice questions and he's going to be able to defend himself and the audience is going to see a different side of him.
How many people like that could he have gone on?
You, Megan Kelly, so many different places he could have gone up.
No, why don't you?
Well, because he hasn't announced it yet, but you launched a damn book.
Who's the marketing team?
So I think the Trump people have landed so many blows that it's a one-way war and a one-way war only goes in one direction.
So far, that's the way it's.
I think when you have the resume that he has, all you have to say is the answer he keeps giving.
Listen, guys, everybody wants it to be me against Trump.
I'm not going to fall for that.
All I'm going to tell you is our resume.
I won by 34,000 votes the first time because Trump helped us out.
Yes, that is true.
He said it in his book multiple times.
Second time, one and a half million.
That wasn't without the help.
Here's who we were able to convert.
While the states were doing this, we went against the grain.
They said this, we did this.
Here's what happened to Florida.
Look how many people are coming to us from New York.
We're recruiting cops.
He just has to say that.
Like, there was one time I saw a video that we're making fun of the rock to promote a movie.
And he was on 20 different interviews and he used the same exact line.
And I'm like, oh, look at him.
He's using this.
That's what he's supposed to do.
You're supposed to go say that to different audiences, even if people catch you or not.
That's part of your job.
You're going to have to have us back in the summer when he's a candidate so we can actually see how the campaign is.
I'd like two more stories before we wrap up.
Pay attention to one date.
The Florida legislative session ends May 5th.
By May 5th, right after that?
How much we should be looking?
By when do we choose the Republican candidate?
Well, when is the date?
In March?
When is the primary?
Sorry, the super channel.
Yeah, we'll have early 24.
10 months from now, we'll know probably who you nominate.
Okay, so May, that's a month from now.
So he announces, say, second, third week of May.
So he's got nine months after you launched your book that you haven't promoted yet.
What are you going to go back and repromote a book that you launched three months ago?
I'm a marketer, guys.
I'm not a politician.
I'm a marketer.
From the marketing standpoint, that's not a good marketing strategy.
You don't think he's going to hit the Blitzkrieg this summer?
You don't think he's going to decide that when he's actually running as a candidate, all of a sudden, you're probably not going to be able to get him out of your green room.
I hope I'm wrong.
I hope so because I think he's got a great resume.
And I'm just, to me, you know, you know, when the coach gets upset at Steph Curry one game, I'll never forget.
He's like, can I ask you why you're not shooting threes?
You shot two threes today.
What's the matter with you?
What's the matter with you?
Shoot the damn threes.
You're our best guy.
Go.
Play ball, bro.
Let's go.
Like the, it's like, shit, you're right.
And then all the teammates are like, dude, I don't care if you go 0410.
Yeah.
You're the best three-point shooter.
Go.
Let's roll.
That's the part where it's like, this is a phenomenal candidate.
You have an incredible resume coming from the biggest shit show for two and a half years.
And you came up above everybody.
There's not a governor that's a bought for him in America during COVID with all the manipulation.
Everybody targeting his ass.
He stood out.
The more you wait, the more those stories are gone.
What are we doing?
Like, who the hell is going out there speaking for you?
Who's going out there selling this stuff for you?
My frustration is a complete different frustration.
Can I tell you?
It's got nothing to do with policy.
One quick thing.
I know you want to get the Elon thing.
I just would say there are a lot of people that I think would speak out about that stuff on the right, and they are afraid of Trump.
They're afraid of their.
But you know, but then you don't, then you should fire yourself.
You dismissed that.
No, but you should.
You're asking why those people, if there are people like that, you should resign.
Because if you're doing this type of stuff, you know, I never forget this.
There was a book I read, business book, and I wish I want to give this guy credit.
I don't know who wrote it.
When I find out, I'm going to give the credit.
When you're coming up, you always have these two or three names that you think you need because without them, you're never going to be as big as your number.
You know, you're doing a show.
Oh, my God.
If we land that interview, oh, my God, if we raise money from that guy, oh my God, if it was, listen, man, you think you need that one interview, that one guest, that oneever to validate you.
If you're good enough and you're fair with your audience and you're straight up, and there's a part of you that respects the audience, but there's a part of you that's not going to cave into your audience, trashing you because you don't see what they want you to say.
I'm not doing that, bro.
This is what I believe.
You don't like it.
Go talk to somebody else that you think you're going to agree with 100% of the time.
That's not my ass.
So the people that are afraid of that, they should quit today because they don't belong in the journalistic world.
Talk shit to both sides.
Give your opinion, support, give your values and principles.
And then from there on, see what happens.
Defend your values and principles.
I'm very open about the values and principles I defend.
You guys got the top show, radio.
I'm sorry, guys.
If you're preaching to the choir, I would call into our show unscheduled all the time to talk for five to seven minutes.
You know who did that?
This guy named Donald.
He did that all the time.
That's the best story I've got for Trump really quickly.
First time I had him on the radio show, he's president of the United States.
He called the show himself.
You guys know the PR apparatus that exists for like low-level non-entities.
He would call the show himself and come on.
You call that a hustler.
That's what you call that.
And you know what?
I respect the hustle.
He's a marketer.
Yeah.
And by the way, you're going against a marketer.
Yep.
You're going against a marketer.
You ain't going again.
You beat him.
You could beat the other guy.
It's almost like, you know how sometimes there's an NBA championship and you're like, this ain't a freaking championship.
Nobody watches it because the championship was the Eastern Conference finals.
The hell are we doing here?
You beat the Eastern Conference final.
You could win it all and get a chip today.
There's a lot could change between now and five years from now, four years from now.
So I don't know.
My level of frustration is that you think you have more time than you actually have.
Where is the sense of urgency?
Where is that?
Where's the sense of urgency with that?
The comparison, though, to understanding the no one has understood the media and been the same kind of force that Donald Trump has been.
That's your opponent here.
So you know what that means, though?
Here's what that means.
You know what I do?
This is what I do if I'm a DeSantis' camp.
Hey, Schwartzman, do you really support us?
Yes.
Who's the best marketer you know?
We want to meet with them.
Hey, XYZ Musk, you support us?
Yes.
Who's the best marketer we can hire for the next two years?
Are you willing to help us find that guy?
And you don't think Musk know that?
David Sachs knows that guy?
Or Rogan has these calls?
Bro, let's use our contact to put a super-ass team together to play ball.
And I guarantee you, if you hired a super team to work with you, some people may say, well, maybe he's done that.
Nobody knows about it.
Really?
You think the super team would have allowed the book to do what it did?
I don't think so.
I think it would have been a completely different story.
Again, to me, he's president, Trump's president.
We're fine because we need somebody that's strong to fight off us against all the bullshit that's going on in the world today.
This is not a picking favorites.
This is about the more both sides are fighting their arguments in a better way, we have a better chance of having somebody when I just don't see them playing offense.
It's disappointing.
But again, I may be wrong.
I'm not a political strategist.
I'm a pure marketer and a strategist from the sense of business point, not from when I'm competing with different people in the insurance space.
I have to figure out a way what that guy's strength is, what my weakness is, what his weakness is, what my strength is.
These are not complicated conversations to be having.
So I just don't know who they're hiring behind closed doors.
Hey, Musk, you really want me to win?
I need your help.
You don't think Musk would help him?
Do you think they've had that meeting before?
I hope they have.
Do you think they're having, he's coming to Miami, Musk ended him up?
I hope he's meeting with DeSantis.
Have they had these meetings?
Has he sat down with Rogan?
Is he having these conversations with Schwartzman?
Maybe they are.
Maybe they're not.
But they have access to these people to hire.
So if you really want me, show up.
Show up.
Give me some of those guys.
You asked the question, 2024, what's going to matter the most?
I think the most normal candidate will win.
I think the thing that the country wants is normalcy.
Well, he wanted that in 2020.
Well, Biden sold that he would bring the normalcy.
He's failed.
And the problem we face against Biden, I tell the audience this every time we're discussing what we're facing in 2024, is that the Joe Biden that you are going to be running against in the general election is not the Joe Biden who has been governing, meaning he's going to be the guy.
He's like, oh, I love police.
Police are great.
You know, I love cops.
Yeah, we're going to make you safe.
He's going to do all the stuff that you're seeing from the actual Democrat Party in terms of governance, legislation they want, that will be largely pushed aside.
And Joe Biden, the cuddly old grandpa that everyone knows is just down the middle and a straight shooter, that's who you're running against.
It's a What are the most important states to win for Biden and Trump, for DeSantis?
Okay, so take those four, let's just say four or five, right?
Has DeSantis done a book tour in those places, even pre-announcing?
I don't know.
He was just up in Michigan.
I know that.
I mean, to your point, I would go ahead and say, pick a VP candidate and take one of those states off the board.
Like, to me, if I were DeSantis, part of my launch, I'd be like, I'm taking Brian Kennedy.
And I'm going to tell you this right now.
When you see when it's announced, Trump is going to pick somebody that Trump likes and not somebody that necessarily is going to help deliver the election for him in 2024 because that's just how he thinks.
Let's do one last story because I know you guys got a, we got a hard stop here.
So Riley Gaines rips Nike for partnership with trans influencer Dylan Mulvaney.
They can't forget taking my money.
Former University of Kentucky swimmer.
Riley Gaines criticized Nike decision to make transgender influencer Dylan Mulvaney spokesperson, stating that the mockery Mulvaney deal makes of women is incredibly degrading and that Nike can forget taking my money.
Gaines recently experienced physical assault after a speech she gave at San Francisco State University about saving women's sports at a turning point USA and Leadership Institute event on campus.
She accused Fox feminists of being scared to act after the incident and campus police of being terrified to do their job as they did not want to be accused of being racist for protecting Gaines who is white.
What are your thoughts about the story of Nike?
Not surprising at all that there's been such a backlash to it.
When you think about how crazy this is, they're having a man with no breasts try to sell sports bras.
But more than that, which you would just think the basic physics and physicality would matter more, the bigger point I think you're seeing is what I've been saying on the show for a long time.
People understand transgender.
So just defund the police isn't really about defunding the police.
Defund police is actually a step, if you listen to the true hardcore left in abolition of police.
So that's the actual position.
Defund is always a step on the way.
They want to get rid of all police departments and actually all prisons.
So it's crazy, but that's the belief.
The real belief of transgenderism is not that these are people who are deserving of dignity and to be treated.
That's a given, right?
Any moral person is going to treat a person with dignity and kindness and have the full protection of the law.
And their position isn't just to be polite to them.
It is this is a woman, indistinguishable in all facets, in every way, from other women.
They are demanding that you obey and believe a lie, an obvious and objective lie.
And anything short of your belief in that lie will always be unacceptable.
This is why they have the women can get pregnant too, and men can menstruate and all these things.
They're not just saying this because they're trying to create language that's confusing.
They're saying it because a man with a penis through transgender ideology, and it is purely, it is not about people who are intersex.
It is purely about a psychological state, can become fully female.
And I've even said this to Clay.
They've started to say, if you are a heterosexual male and you are not attracted to transgender people, a transgender woman, for example, you are transphobic.
That has started to happen because that is actually ridiculous.
I'm sorry I've been so emotional today.
I just got my period.
Thank God I just got a tampon Tampax sponsorship.
I look at this, and this is where I came from the world of sports.
And this to me is something that sports is the ultimate meritocracy.
It's the best man or woman or woman.
And so you guys know, I mean, you were at the UFC event, right?
We have weight classes in UFC.
If you play high school sports, the biggest high schools don't compete against the smallest high schools.
I coach 12-year-old youth basketball and baseball.
If I suddenly showed up with a 16-year-old to play, everybody would say this is ridiculous.
This is a 70-30, 80-20 issue.
And I think this is an example of something where I said the goal is normalcy.
This ain't normal.
Okay.
And they're trying to make it seem normal.
And this, I'm sure you guys have seen it.
You know, from a marketing perspective, if Nike was making, see, this is where Kaepernick ties into me with this story.
Colin Kaepernick was the first person in sports that Nike hired and tried to give an endorsement deal to that was not elite in his sport.
Now they have moved into, we're just going to grab random fake chicks and make them try to sell gear.
If Nike came out and they said, hey, Clay and Buck, you guys have the biggest radio show in the country.
We want to advertise with you.
Simultaneously, we want to advertise to the trans community.
Like we're trying to appeal to 100% of the population.
I would nod my head and say, okay.
They would never buy an advertisement on the Clay and Buck Show, right?
No, we're too toxic.
The guy who pretends he's a woman and has a sports bra for no reason is brand perfect for you.
Yes.
And so I think it's indicative of how crazy that analogy, again, that little graphic of where we've gone.
In 2008, if you had said, if Barack Obama had run for president and said, I think chicks with dicks should be able to compete against women, people would have said it's crazy.
People forgot.
Barack Obama wasn't opposed to gay marriage in 08, right?
He ran on everywhere.
You can find the internet.
He ran on we should never change the marital standard.
It's crazy.
That's just 15 years ago.
2008.
You want to blow people's mind.
2008 Obama would be a Republican campaign now.
On many issues, 2008.
Clay says that.
I always say that.
2008 Obama would be a lot of people would be a Republican.
Because the left has gone so far left.
Okay, he wasn't.
Can we do the Musk thing before we wrap up?
Let's do the Musk clip real quick before we wrap up.
Play the two-minute one, not the four-minute one.
There's two of them.
Yeah, that one right there.
Perfect.
So this is Elon Musk sitting down with BBC reporter.
I think his name is James Clayton.
And it starts with the BBC guy interviewing Elon.
It flips very quickly.
They're doing Twitter spaces at the same time.
Smart on Elon Musk's side, so they can't cut and not play all the clips.
Here's Musk and Clayton.
Content you don't like or hateful?
What do you mean to describe a hateful thing?
Yeah, I mean, you know, just content that will solicit a reaction, something that may include something that is slightly racist or slightly sexist, those kinds of things.
So you think if something is slightly sexist, it should be banned.
No.
Is that what you're saying?
I'm not saying anything.
I'm saying.
I'm just curious.
I'm trying to understand what you mean by hateful content.
And I'm asking for specific examples.
And you just said that if something is slightly sexist, that's hateful content.
Does that mean that it should be banned?
Well, you've asked me whether my feed, whether it's got less or more, I'd say it's got slightly more.
That's why I'm asking for examples.
Can you name one example?
I honestly don't need it.
Honestly, I don't.
You can't name a single example.
I'll tell you why, because I don't actually use that for you feed anymore because I just don't particularly like it.
A lot of people are quite similar.
I only have a couple of things.
You said you've seen more hateful content, but you can't name a single example, not even one.
I'm not sure I've used that feed for the last three or four weeks.
Well, then how did you see the hateful content?
Because I've been using Twister since you've taken it over for the last six months.
Okay, so then you must have at some point seen for you hateful content.
And I'm asking for one example.
Right.
You can't give a single why.
And I'm saying...
Then I say, sir, that you don't know what you're talking about.
Yes.
Because you can't give me a single example of hateful content, not even one tweet, and yet you claimed that the hateful content was high.
Well, that's a false.
No, what I created.
No, what I came on.
There are many organizations that say that that kind of information is on the rise.
Now, whether it has a multiple of the content.
I mean, right, and literally can't.
If someone like the Strategic Dialogue Institute in the UK, they will say that.
Look, people will say all sorts of nonsense.
I'm literally asking for a single example, and you can't name one.
Right.
And as I already said, I don't use that feed.
But how would you know that?
I don't think this is getting any more.
You literally said you experienced more hateful content and then couldn't name a single example.
Right.
And as I said, I haven't actually looked at that feed.
Then how would you know if this is hateful content?
Because I'm saying that's what I saw two weeks ago.
I can't give you an exact example.
Let's move on.
So you get knocked out and you're like, hey, let's go ahead and get it on the canvas.
No, that's the dissection of a media talking point in real time.
It was pretty amazing.
My reaction is, one, you kind of hinted at this before.
I don't know why any person would agree to anything that is not going to be aired in its entirety who is in a prominent position.
In other words, if you want to interview me, that's fine.
The whole thing has to air.
And then people can listen to the whole thing in context.
The fact that a Trump would still sit and allow anybody to interview him, like you're a super busy guy.
And I would say the same thing to Sanders or anybody else.
You want me for an hour, boom.
We're talking for the entire hour and it all goes public.
And I'm bringing my own crew to record it because if you try to cut and paste what I said, I won't allow that.
And I think this is what you get.
I think that's what people crave, that authenticity, because so much of what we are marinated in on a day-to-day basis is total bullshit.
And people cut through it and they recognize it.
The left is much better at molding words for political purposes than we are.
They're constantly changing and policing language to that end.
When they say hateful, what they want is for people to think that they're talking about hate speech.
And what they really mean by hateful is anything that I don't like, anything that bothers me, anything that challenges my assumptions.
I'm going to label that hateful and then have in the minds of a lot of people some association with, oh, it must be like really ugly, racist, sexist.
You know, that's hateful.
No, I mean, saying like maybe we should actually enforce immigration law at the U.S.-Mexico border, like that they would consider to be utterly hateful.
I mean, there are things that they would put in that bucket that I think no normal person would ever consider to be hateful, but that's the whole point.
They want to be able to control it.
There was one word that that uh, that journalist used, that completely ruined his argument and when he started using the word well, slightly misogynistic, slightly transphobia, he's like so now, slightly is hateful, and and then Elon Musk just pounced on that.
It wasn't, it was over.
I also think the number of people who say some would say so, you know, like people say people say some people, people are saying that's that's.
People are saying many people probably the best, I know that one.
That's when the person hasn't done their homework, because he could have easily said he could have cited two or three different like organizations and then Musk would have had to attack the organizations.
But when he doesn't have any basis whatsoever and he's just kind of relying on that ephemeral, some people say many would say it's evident that he hasn't done his homework.
And you guys well know this.
There's a lot of really lazy and dumb journalists and they get credit for being way smarter than they actually are, because most people won't go after.
Most are activists, not journalists.
Is the.
Well listen guys, this was phenomenal, it was fantastic.
Appreciate you guys for coming out.
Cannot wait to do this again as things get heated.
Maybe the next time we do this is when uh our, our guy from Florida, announces that he's running, we'll be here.
We'll both be on the side of maybe, we'll come out and do a live event at our cigar lounge and our club right next door and we'll have a live audience of two or three hundred people and we'll do that with them and uh, make it a different show.
But appreciate guys for coming out.
Rob, if we can put the link below to any book that he would, the book he was talking about, if there is a link to it not up yet, it's going to be out at august 8th.
I'm not even supposed to talk about it yet because we haven't officially, I think April 17th, the link will go up.
But what you're pitching as a marketer, you're going to see this and you're going to be like, I guarantee you, you're going to love it.
But put up the Klan Buck podcast, please.
That's up now.
We'll have that at both places.
Go down there, subscribe, listen to these folks.
Not that they need more listeners, but you've got to hear what these guys have to say.
