Rudy Giuliani & Dave Rubin On Trump Being Charged with 34 Felonies | PBD Podcast | Ep. 255
PBD Podcast Episode 255. In this episode, Patrick Bet-David is joined by Rudy Giuliani, Dave Rubin, Adam Sosnick and Tom Ellsworth.
0:00 - Start
5:10 - Rudy Giuliani Calls Out The US Justice System
15:31 - Who Was Really Behind Trump's Indictment?
36:32 - Rudy Giuliani SLAMS DeSantis' Chance To Be President
56:40 - Rudy Giuliani DESTROYS Joe Biden's Leadership
1:04:12 - Rudy Giuliani, David Rubin & PBD Debate Ron DeSantis Campaign Strategy
1:14:49 - Rudy Guiliani criticize How Ron DeSantis handles Ukraine
1:20:59 - 2020 election debate
1:45:25 - Hilarious REACTION To Dylan Mulvaney Being Sponsored by NIKE and Tampax
2:00:06 - - Why 27 of Top 30 Crime-Ridden Cities Are Run By Democrats
FaceTime or Ask Patrick any questions on https://minnect.com/
Want to get clear on your next 5 business moves? https://valuetainment.com/academy/
Follow Dave Rubin on Twitter: https://bit.ly/3UfNFbG
Follow Dave Rubin on Instagram: https://bit.ly/41aDlnN
Subscribe to The Rubin Report on YouTube: https://bit.ly/40Phxy2
Go to DaveRubin.com: http://bit.ly/3Gnw3VE
Follow Rudy Giuliani on Twitter: https://bit.ly/3mhmFMA
Follow Rudy Giuliani on Instagram: https://bit.ly/3GquZjL
Subscribe to Rudy Giuliani’s YouTube Channel: https://bit.ly/3ZVYcdy
Listen to The Rudy Giuliani Show weekdays from 3-4PM ET on WABC Radio: https://bit.ly/3nWgQ7O
Join the channel to get exclusive access to perks: https://bit.ly/3Q9rSQL
Download the podcasts on all your favorite platforms https://bit.ly/3sFAW4N
Text: PODCAST to 310.340.1132 to get added to the distribution list
Patrick Bet-David is the founder and CEO of Valuetainment Media. He is the author of the #1 Wall Street Journal bestseller Your Next Five Moves (Simon & Schuster) and a father of 2 boys and 2 girls. He currently resides in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.
Please help welcome some of our home team members, starting with the BizDoc himself, Tom.
I know he feel my pain, but still they can't drink.
And next, Miami's most eligible bachelor of...
Put your hands together right now for Adam Saskins.
It's the world like hitting with a combination.
I won't let nobody coron me of my inspiration.
And the lost.
But certainly not least, the reason why we are all here.
The face of entrepreneurship, businessman, CEO of Valutainment.
The Assyrian Lion.
Put your hands together right now for Patrick Patience.
But now the side of the gun, never run.
Mama, look what I become.
I'm the one.
Did you ever think you were making?
If you ever think you were making all right, by the way, what a show we're gonna have tonight.
Talk about timing with what happened this week.
And we got our guests here tonight to talk about what went on in, what is it like, 40 miles away from here?
Something happened in New York.
The indictment, we got two special guests here with us.
One of them has got billions of views online.
Everybody loves this guy.
He went from being an intern for Jon Stewart, comedian, intern, Jon Stewart, then all of a sudden to Ruben Report.
Okay, millions of subscribers.
And then I think he holds a record, if I'm not mistaken.
You know, usually when you move to Florida, it takes about 10 years for you to be called a Florida man.
He loves Florida so much, he was able to do it in less than 12 months.
Give it up to the one and only Dave Rubin.
Yes, yes, yes.
And in this next one, how many guys are from New York?
Anybody from New York here?
Yes or no?
How many lived in New York?
You were glad when this man cleaned up the streets in New York?
Yes or no?
How many would like to see the same kind of cleaning up happen a little bit in maybe a city like San Francisco, which we heard what happened, the tragic event that happened a day ago in San Francisco?
Maybe in Chicago, which Chicago's leading in a lot of many different things, not any good stats they want to be leading in, or New York or some other places that's going on.
This man is called the Americans Mayors, Mayor.
He has a lot of experience.
I don't think we were talking earlier at the house.
I don't think there are a lot of people that have enough experience, as much experience as him to talk about the events that's taking place right now with the indictment.
And before, as a quick shout out to Andrew Tate, before there was a top G, the FBI used to give an award, and they used to call it the G-Man Honor, okay?
Which he got in 2015, a year before he decided to support this man.
What's his name?
His name is Donald.
I think is what his name is, right?
Donald J. Trump, President Donald J. Trump.
So the original Top G, Mayor Giuliani, give it up.
All right, let's get this here.
Let's get the show started.
Oh, my God.
We got so many different topics, folks.
If you're watching us from around the world, welcome to the pod.
We wish you were here with us in about a couple hours.
When we're done with the live on YouTube, we're going to do some Q ⁇ A here, questions.
You'll get a chance to ask the mayor and Dave a couple questions.
And then afterwards, we'll go to the cigar lounge in the back.
We'll do some pictures.
We'll have some conversations.
Rumor has it, this man here, not rumor has it, he is a big fan of cigars, so we're going to see what's going to happen with that.
But we got a lot of things going on.
Dave, some will say you're more part of the governor's camp or you're more supportive of Governor Ron DeSantis, which is great.
And you've spent more time with him.
You've interviewed him multiple times.
You've done a lot of different events with him.
He's a big supporter of you.
You're a big supporter of him, which is fantastic.
And Mayor, you've spent more time, I want to say, with President Donald J. Trump.
So it's going to be good to get different perspectives from both of you guys.
And then how many guys love Adam and Bizdock in here as well to see what perspective they're going to need.
So let's get right into it.
So open-ended question.
When we're hearing the stories right now, with some people saying what happened this week in New York, you know, some people from the MAGA crowd are saying this is the, they're using the justice system to weaponize and go against the candidate to eliminate him.
That's some people that are part of the MAGA camp that are saying this.
Some on the Republican side are saying this is a full-blown distraction because they want to make sure that President Trump beats out DeSantis because he's going to win in the primaries, but they don't think he can win in the general election going up against Biden or whoever else may be.
And then there's people on the left that are saying, no, this man is a criminal.
This is the right thing to do.
We have to go after him.
Mayor Giuliani, what do you have to say about that?
I don't know that we can figure out all of the motivations of a group of people that, starting in about 2015, 2016, decided they were going to destroy Donald Trump.
So this is like chapter six or seven in the same book, which is let's frame Donald Trump.
Let's get rid of him any way we can.
It began with Russian collusion.
Remember that?
That was like three or four years.
So we've concluded Russian collusion about as clearly as we can.
And it's real simple.
He was telling the truth and they were lying.
Not only were they lying, they spent well over a million dollars to frame him, which means to try to put him in jail for something he didn't do.
I was involved in his 2016 campaign as much as anyone.
I was with him almost night and day for about five months.
I knew from the beginning that the Russian collusion charge was completely fictitious.
I didn't know the rest of it, that Hillary paid for it, that it was made up in the Ukraine.
The guy who wrote the steal, Dossier, hadn't been in the Soviet Union for 17 years.
I mean, it was a ridiculous thing.
But just think about it.
All these people were involved in framing him to stop him.
When that didn't work, they tried to execute him, a coup, right?
Get him out of office.
And then we had the phony Ukraine story.
And then we had the suppression of the hard drive.
I was the one who got the hard drive from John Mac Isaacs as the last person.
I was the only person who would take it.
He offered it to two or three Republican senators, to the FBI.
The FBI buried it for a year and a half.
Then we went through the January 6th insurrection, the only insurrection ever attempted without a single firearm, without any plans to take over the government, without any plans beforehand to do it.
But they still call it an insurrection.
And nobody prosecuted for insurrection.
Nobody even charged with insurrection.
And they spent about $70 million on the investigation.
And they're imprisoning people endlessly for basic trespass at worst.
There probably were more FBI agents involved than MAGA people inside the Capitol, if you ever get a chance to see the 40,000 hours of tape that they are suppressing.
So this is just another attempt to destroy him with phony, completely phony allegations.
I don't know how well calculated it is, whether they want him to be the candidate.
They don't want him to be.
They want to destroy him.
Any way that they can destroy him now, they'll destroy him now.
If they can keep him out of the, I really don't think they particularly want him in the election for this reason.
No matter how they calculate it, there's only one way he can become president.
He's got to get the Republican nomination.
So if you can deprive him of the Republican nomination, you can stop him from being president.
They've got to be smart enough to know you can't calculate who you can beat and who you can't beat.
So if they help him to get nominated, their worst nightmare could occur.
The only way they can prevent their worst nightmare is to stop him, which is what they really want to do.
Any Democrat that actually thinks, well, I want to nominate him, is a fool.
How many times, I mean, Jimmy Carter wanted to run against Ronald Reagan, and Ronald Reagan beat him in a landslide.
And Hillary wanted to run against Donald Trump.
We know what happened, right?
So I don't buy that one.
I do buy the fact that they want to stop him whenever and however they can.
So you don't think it's that strategic to want to eliminate DeSantis as a candidate because on some polls, it shows better when DeSantis goes against Biden that he can beat him, but Trump against Biden, he can't.
That's what a lot of our polls are saying.
I don't think, right, maybe eventually it will be that as we get closer to the election.
It's too early to know who can beat whom.
Well, no, we brought you here to tell us the, we want to know now.
We don't want to wait.
Dave, what do you have to say about this?
Well, first off, I'm regretting the amount of tequila I drank backstage.
I didn't realize there were actually going to be people here, so this changes everything.
I don't have my tequila now.
Yeah.
Well, you know, look, on the part, are they trying to get Trump, and is this all about the election?
The answer obviously is yes.
I should also say that I like Trump.
I've interviewed Trump.
I voted for Trump.
I was living in L.A. when I voted for Trump, which cost me friends and, you know, community and that whole thing.
I think he was by far the best president of my lifetime.
And I would gladly vote for him again in certain circumstances.
So there's no error between us, I would say, on how outrageous this situation is.
And obviously, if the guy wasn't running for president right now, they would never, never be doing this.
It's all about 24.
It has nothing to do with 34 Trumped up charges that are out of the statue of limitations, that really are nonsensical things for the most part, that now Stormy Daniels owes him money on and a whole bunch more.
How does the prostitute end up owing you money is kind of funny.
Wow.
Okay.
You must be really good.
Yeah.
Yeah, you were so good.
Let me put you for it.
Do you mind if I tell him that?
He'll love that.
And did you read that line, Rudy?
Trump would love that.
And did you see in Trump's statement today?
You know, he sends out these statements every day.
He's sitting at Mar-a-Lago typing all day.
He sends out this statement about Stormy Daniels.
You know, she owes me 120 grand.
And he goes, horse face, Stormy Daniels.
It's like, dude, you hired her.
Come on.
Allegedly, Dave.
Allegedly something.
Yeah, yeah.
And now he's doing a bad Yelp review.
But all of that being said, in terms of the real direction of the country, and yeah, I've been in Florida for 15 months.
I'm a refugee from Los Angeles, from California.
You know, I campaigned with Larry Elder to get rid of Gavin Newsome, who I think is in Florida today.
Do you smell him?
That stench, you can get it from Sarasota right now.
It's on the West Coast.
Yeah, that's right.
I got audited by the state three days after the election.
So these are bad people that we're fighting.
They really are.
In terms of DeSantis and everything else, look what he has done to this state.
I mean, he has turned Florida into the freest.
Like, Pat, there's a reason you're here.
There's a reason that every single one of your employees has huge smiles on their faces.
The checks don't bounce and they live here in Florida.
Like, it's all happening here.
This is, it truly, it can't be overstated.
Florida is the freest place in the entire world.
And it is because, it's partly because of Trump and setting up a lot of this stuff, and Florida has had, you know, an interesting population over the years, but it's because DeSantis fought the machine better than anyone over these last couple years.
And beyond that, I also think we just, we need a shift.
We need, it's not about age exactly, but we're done, I think, being governed by 80-year-olds.
We need a generational shift.
I think we need some Gen X people.
Dave, there's people that are close to that age in this room there.
You got to have a little bit of respect.
Yes, man.
And they should.
They shouldn't be president.
No offense, my friend.
I'm just saying.
You know, I think we just, we need a shift.
We need a shift of attitude.
We need a shift of competency.
You know, I think the things that we need right now are competency, the ability to communicate that, and a clear vision.
And personally, I think DeSantis is the best guy out there.
The great thing about today is, you know, you can choose to identify as whatever you want.
Mayor can identify as a 42-year-old.
You can do that nowadays.
So for the next two hours.
Which of the 47 genders do I pick?
I have trouble, you know, like, what's the 32nd gender?
Or the 38th.
I was on an airplane of Dylan Milvan.
I was once with a lawyer who represents one of the big transgender groups.
He's just sitting next to me.
And he recognized, and I said, explain it to me.
Two hours later, I was ready to jump out of the plane.
I mean, the things you, I can't even remember.
He was describing all these.
We got down to about 22 genders.
I think, you know, like you become son of an ant, you could become some kind of an animal.
It's completely insane.
It's completely insane.
Maybe he did have more tequila than me.
I'm not sure.
Willie, are you, Rudy, are you willing to say publicly that there's only two genders, men and women?
I don't know.
I can't define a woman.
I want to be on the Supreme Court.
Yes, I want to say there are two genders.
I even am willing to tell you how I would identify them, but I don't think I should.
So, okay, by the way, that was a great question by a guy who has two cats.
Tonight during dinner, all we talk about is the fact that Adam's a big cat guy, and he gave very good talks.
Oh, no cat question.
So it's starting to make a lot of wisdom tonight on our couch.
But anyways, let's go back to this.
Let's go back to this.
Let's go back to this.
So, strategy-wise, okay, Trump DeSantis.
So, for you, you're thinking there's a part of this that there is weaponizing of the justice system against the former president.
100%.
Perfect.
That's been a while.
That goes back to when they fixed the Hillary Clinton case.
Then I have a question for you because I think you're partially responsible.
And so here's where I'm going with this, and let's see what direction you're going to take this.
So we pulled up five historical facts about weaponization federal government.
Of course, we can go back to McCarthyism where they, you know, communism, they're going against that 40s, 50s.
We all know about that one.
Then you have the Cointel Pro from 1956 to 1971.
The FBI ran a covert operation known as Cointel Pro, which aimed to disrupt and discredit various political groups, including civil rights activists.
This is the Malcolm X, this is the Martin Luther King.
Then you have the War on Drugs, 80s and 90s.
They launched this.
That led to a sharp increase in the number of people incarcerated for drug offenses.
Then we have the Patriot Act.
And prior to that, we have the RICO, which the gentleman, Blakey, who was a, I think, Notre Dame professor in 1970, he came up with that.
And then you guys kind of found a way on how to go after the mob.
And then, boom, you took down pretty much cleaned up the streets of New York with the mob.
Everybody was trying to figure out a way to do it.
You were the only one that ended up being successful.
You got the Patriot Act in 2001, which the government passed this, which explained the government's ability to surveil and investigate suspected terrorists.
Critics argued that the laws have been used to infringe on the civil liberties of innocent Americans, that it has been used to target individuals and organizations based on their political views rather than their actual links to terrorism.
And then you have the Mueller investigation, which happened in 2017.
So partially when you're doing this at the beginning, I'm assuming this is purely speculating.
I'm assuming you're like, hey, guys, we got to take down the mob and clean up the streets of New York.
We got to do it.
No problem.
Fantastic.
How are we going to do it?
This guy comes in from Notre Dame.
Let me tell you, this is one thing that we came up with: the racketeering, the RICO Act, all this other stuff.
Let's do it.
Then the government said, wow, what a great weapon to use against the people.
And then that got stronger and more creative.
And then some evil leaders got their hands on us saying, we can silence people.
How awesome was this?
So even though originally it was used to take the bad people out, now it's being used to hurt good and innocent people.
How going back, would you say partially the RICO, some of these things you guys did, do you regret any of it making it as strong as it ended up being that we're experiencing what we're experiencing today?
First of all, I don't know if all of them are related, the same thing.
The difference between then and now is every one of those began as a legitimate issue involving our national security, our safety.
They weren't.
Nobody passed the Patriot Act to go after innocent people.
I mean, this, what's going on right now, was designed for one purpose and one purpose alone, for the ruling party to take out the opposition party that had no legitimate purpose at all.
The weaponization of the Justice Department was not to go after mafia guys, terrorists, people who kill you.
The weaponization of the Justice Department was to destroy any opposition to the regime.
Secondly, any law can be misused.
You can misuse a minor misdemeanor and weaponize it for filing false entries in your books.
So you're always subject to that.
You're subject.
The laws are there.
It's like saying the Soviet Union had a constitution.
Red China has a constitution with more rights than our Bill of Rights.
Considerably more.
But it doesn't mean anything.
So I don't know that the government, even being excessive in pursuing bad guys and maybe even being a little bit overzealous in doing that, I don't think that leads to what is now typical of a totalitarian regime, which is the ruling party using the criminal process to go after the opposition party.
I think that's a totally different thing.
And I think it developed in a different way.
I think it developed because of the long-term influence of the Communist Party on the Democratic Party.
And I think they've basically taken over.
I think this is a well-thought-out plot that goes back at least 20 or 30 years to destroy our government.
And I think that's why Soros is funding it.
Why does Soros pay for 40 or 50 DAs all over the country to basically destroy these cities?
Because Soros wants our government to fall.
He wants a one-world government.
He probably wants to run the one-world government, or at least be the head of the Department of the Treasury, so he can steal from it.
And so, no, I don't regret the RICO statute.
I think the RICO statute would be excellent to use, for example, against the Biden crime family.
It'd be pie exactly.
The whole idea of the Racketeering Act is you just can't put them in jail.
You've got to take their property away.
Because if you just keep putting the mafia in jail, some other mafia guy comes along and takes over the $5 billion enterprise and it becomes $6 billion.
And it was a recognition by Professor Blakey, who I knew very, very well, that the only way we're going to crush the mafia is to take their empire away.
For example, one of the cases that isn't mentioned that I did was I took the Teamsters union away from the mob, which meant taking Las Vegas away from the mob because they controlled Las Vegas through the Central State's pension fund of the Teamsters Union.
You thought it was a central state's pension fund money.
It was the mafia money that was being laundered for 30 years.
So no, I don't regret it.
What I do regret is the wrong people getting in government and then being able to use any of these laws.
But we can't, but we know the wrong people are eventually going to be in power, right?
So certain policies could work for good people because a good person may not abuse the power that they have, but you have to be thinking about policies to create that an evil guy doesn't come and say, I want to abuse my power.
So, you know, I understand what you're saying.
It was built for the good guy to, you know, find and catch the bad guy.
But what if the bad guy is now the leader that's going after the good guy?
So what could we have done differently?
The only reason I'm asking this question is because we got now this FedNow app coming out.
We got CBDC coming out.
We got this Restrict Act coming out that they're saying, oh, we're going to take down TikTok.
And Charlie Kirk made a very good point the other day, the fact that they're using this to say they want to silence Dave Rubin.
Dave, we're sorry, we don't like the message you got.
We got to go after him.
So only thing I'm asking is I'm not a lawyer.
I didn't work in the New York district as an attorney.
You've been around the block.
For the next people, the next Giuliani, the next guy that's going to have that kind of a power, when they're writing these acts up, should they do it or don't even do it?
Don't even go there.
But if they do do it, how do you write it to make sure a bad guy cannot weaponize it?
Bad guys can weaponize anything.
They can weaponize the simplest law or a complex law.
And you can't deprive yourself of laws that are going to protect you against murderers, rapists, terrorists.
You can't pass a law that can't be misused by a bad guy if a bad guy gets into power.
This is not a question of the laws that we passed.
It's a question of the people that we voted for.
Like the people of Chicago.
There's got to be something wrong with them voting for the person they voted for.
Lori Lightfoot.
They got him talking about Johnson.
There's got to be something wrong with them.
They're brainwashed.
This is a development that happened within politics rather than within the legal system.
Because even if we didn't have these laws, and most of these laws weren't even used by the Democrats in weaponizing the Justice Department, they're much simpler laws that they used, or they make things up.
The indictment of Trump is a non-existent indictment.
It's null and void.
It doesn't charge a crime.
It charges a crime without explaining the crime, which would lead to the dismissal of any other indictment.
The judge should have thrown it out as null and void.
I don't know why his lawyers didn't get up and refused to plead to it.
If I represented him, he never would have pled to that indictment.
I would have said, this is not an indictment.
It says here, this was in pursuance of a crime.
What would you like me to do?
Guess which one of the 1,000 New York crimes it is?
Would you give me a hint at least?
What am I pleading to?
If you read the indictment, you don't know what you're pleading to.
He's pleading, if you pled guilty, you wouldn't know what you pled guilty to.
So we can't do away with indictments.
What we got to do is do away with corrupt district attorneys like Alvin Bragg.
I mean, that's the problem.
Dave, what do you think?
Well, let me add something to slightly defend the mayor from the time that he was in office and beforehand when he was dealing with the mafia and all of this stuff when these laws were put into place.
You know, we used to have Democrats and Republicans that disagreed on certain issues, meaning taxation, certain things related to crime, certain things related to abortion, et cetera, et cetera.
But there wasn't one party that in essence was solely existing to pretty much destroy America as we know it and become completely lawless and not know the difference between boys and girls and want neo-racism taught in the schools and not believe that jailing criminals is correct, et cetera, et cetera.
We now have one party like that.
So I think what's happening now, you got a guy like Alvin Bragg, who we were discussing it at dinner.
The guy does not charge you with the crime if you jump the turnstile in New York City.
So think what you're doing.
You're doing two things when you do that.
First off, you're incentivizing people for bad behavior, right?
You're telling them, go ahead and jump the turnstile, do whatever you want.
And you're also telling the law-abiding person in New York City, you're a sucker, man.
You're paying your $250 or $275, whatever it is on the subway now, while these kids are just jumping over.
They will not prosecute for prostitution.
The craziest one that they will not prosecute for is avoiding arrest.
So you are allowed to literally fight the cop as he's trying to arrest you.
And you will not be penalized for that.
So I think what's happened here, there's a little asymmetry.
Most of us, especially if you live in a free state, a law and order state like Florida, where, by the way, we are now getting all of the good cops.
You know that there were thousands and thousands of incredible members of the New York Police Department who are now moving down here.
DeSantis is giving them bonuses and we're becoming stronger and they're becoming weaker.
The difference is that when you have one side that is completely unhinged related to law and reality, there is no law that you can set up that will not be abused.
So that's the problem.
I'm going to still push back if you're okay with that guy.
And I want both of you guys to try to rip apart my argument, and I'm very comfortable with that.
Okay.
So you have kids, you have a family, you're doing estate planning, you're doing living trusts, okay?
And you would like to pass down your wealth to your kids, but you would like them to manage the wealth in a responsible way so it can go to your grandkids and great-grandkids and stay within the family, right?
So when you study generational wealth and you go to Rothschild, you go to Rockefeller's, you go to Vanderbilt's, you go to Medici family, all of these guys, you will see Vanderbilts were so flipping wealthy, but his living trust sucked.
I think he had like 11 kids.
Within one generation or two, boom, all the money was gone.
Medici's kept it in the family, I think, seven generations.
Rockefeller's kept in the family three generations.
I believe, I believe, the way we create the laws, we can say, let's not vote bad people in here, but okay, can you be a great parent and have one of your kids that meets a teacher at UC Berkeley and flips them, And all of a sudden, they become a person that cannot agree with anything you're saying or your evil parent and all this other stuff.
And if you give that guy the money, he's going to go give the money to us.
So all I'm saying is we can't control evil people.
We can't control people that get influenced to do dumb things.
We cannot control it.
Even great parents could have bad kids.
All I'm saying is it's easy for us to put it all on Alvin Bragg's, but he was able to do this because certain things in a past, you can go and say, well, in this case, here's what it is.
So guess what?
The way they took this guy down, let's just go and target Donald Trump.
The way they took this guy down.
All I'm saying is, while we're going through a big decision right now with this Restrict Act, you're not going to be affected by it.
You and I will be affected by it, but our kids will be affected by it because they're going to be the ones that's going to be using social media a lot longer than we are.
So we can sit here and be like, well, it's not really that.
We just got to make sure we vote the right people in.
If it's all about just voting the right people in, why are so many immigrants in America?
They escape that.
I think there's a part of it.
All I'm asking is, Mayor, from you, and I want to transition to another topic.
What can we learn from the way we wrote these things up to not do it again?
Well, maybe I didn't point out this other part of it.
I'm not saying there aren't very bad laws and that laws are passed that infringe human rights, civil rights, are too intrusive, are unwise, can actually be more easily abused.
That all happens.
And we shouldn't do that now or before or later.
I just don't think there's the connection between that and what you're saying.
I don't think Alvin Bragg exists because let's say you believe that the Patriot Act was overzealous, intruded too much into privacy.
And it might very well, I might agree with you on some of that.
I don't think that's the reason we are where we are today.
I think independently we should fix it.
And that's another problem that we have.
And I think the Restrict Act, I think it would be a very bad law.
And it would be a particularly bad law because our government has become more corrupt.
So it would be in the hands of corrupt people.
But it shouldn't even be in the hands of honest people.
And I think the way we, like, I think the inheritance tax is inherently inequitable, unfair, anti-capitalism, anti-incentives to develop wealth, anti-human nature.
One of the reasons you work hard is for your family.
And then that's the contribution of everyone, because you're working hard.
Your main objective is your family, but you're helping society in doing that.
And knowing that your wealth is going to get cut in half or more, that's going to change that.
And then people are also going to look for ways to break the law.
These intrusive laws lead to a lot of, like if you have taxes that are too high, people find ways to avoid it, and then people find ways to evade it.
So I think, Patrick, I think there are two different problems that you're talking about.
And I think this problem emerges from our politics, our morality or lack thereof.
And I do think, and I know it sounds like this is a conspiracy theory that I'm asserting, but I am.
It is a conspiracy.
I think that China has a lot to do with it.
I think China has corrupted many of these people who are involved in these unbelievably illegal applications of the law.
If Biden isn't corrupted by China, it would be totally ridiculous.
The guy got $31 million plus dollars in the last six years from China.
And he's taken actions for China that only could be taken by somebody that seems to favor China over the United States.
He gives up an airbase 400 miles from China.
That's insane.
In an era in which we may be in a war involving missiles and airplanes, being 400 miles from China is an unbelievable strategic advantage given away by our president for nothing in return.
Is it a coincidence that the man who did it, family got $31 million from China in the last six years?
No, it's not a coincidence.
You have to be ridiculous to think it's a coincidence.
He refuses to pursue China, and they're the cause of COVID.
He refuses to, he told us that China really is a friend, ultimately a friend.
He's never said a harsh word about China.
And they're day by day, they're gaining an advantage over us if they're not already having an advantage that's going to take them to their goal of being the dominant nation on the earth by 2048.
I think that they'll get there faster.
If I just add one other thing, you know, your question basically boils down to what do you do about unintended consequences?
These people are trying to do things that are going to create law and order, good incentives for good citizens to do the right thing, but there are going to be bad actors.
The libertarian part of me, I'm completely with you.
You can't create laws that in essence are going to control people perfectly.
Humans are imperfect.
We can't create perfect systems.
It's as simple as that.
But I would also say that this is the best argument for federalism, for what's happening here in Florida.
We can't, the federal government, I know this isn't a federal case, but we now have a party in half the country that does not believe in laws.
They will do anything they can to accumulate power.
I am not saying that the right and the conservatives and the Republicans are great, because they're pretty crappy.
I always say on my show, you don't have to be a Republican, but you cannot be a Democrat.
That's my basic position.
So it's not that they're, yeah, it's not.
All right, all right.
I'll take it.
It's not that the other side is so great, but there is a basic sense.
You know this.
I mean, I watch your show enough when you bring on people on the right and people on the left.
People on the right basically can agree to disagree.
I have no doubt if we polled everyone in this crowd, the political opinions would be all over the room, and people would want this tax and that law on abortion and all sorts of stuff.
But there's a basic sense that we believe that the system is pretty good.
We can work within it.
Let's see if we can accomplish something.
And on the other side, it's gone.
So it's not a perfect answer.
But I wonder, do you have a perfect answer to your question?
So think about it this way.
I don't have a perfect.
I bring smarter people like you guys to make me smarter.
That's how I live my life, right?
Okay, so.
But if you look at Forbes magazine, at one point it was the best business magazine we all went to, right?
Until 2021, International Woman of the Year was Hillary Clinton, okay?
So if you put her as international woman, business woman of the year is Hillary Clinton, I mean, it confuses the hell out of everybody.
At least he was an actual woman.
Yeah, that's a good point.
This could be Dylan, bro.
Allegedly.
Allegedly.
So watch this.
So watch this.
BC Forbes.
Boy, wouldn't that be funny if Hillary turns out not to be a woman?
That would be like, you know.
Would you be shocked?
That would just be a lot of fun.
Well, there's a lot of stories about that about Michelle Obama.
They would have to stay here.
Let's stay here.
Let's stay here.
They'd have to turn back the box.
We've seen the past.
Mr. Giuliani, I've seen the photos.
You believe it, but I don't either.
So BC Forbes starts Forbes.
His son takes over Malcolm Forbes, takes it to the next level.
He calls it the capitalist tool.
Malcolm's son, Steve Forbes, takes it over.
95% of Forbes today is owned by China.
Don't you think if you're the guy that's like, if I'm selling Valutain one day that I'm going to die and my kids are going to take over, there's going to be bylaws.
The only person that can buy this company ever is going to be XYZ or certain kind of things to protect from somebody from China buying Valutainment.
These are things that we have to learn from other people's mistakes.
There's going to be bad kids.
There's going to be bad grandkids.
There's going to be somebody in the family that's going to be a divider.
But if you have certain things in the rules and the Constitution and laws that we put that no matter how much the left and the right want to fight, this cannot be compromised.
I'm just saying, can we look into something like that?
But let's transition to another topic because we got a lot of other topics to go through here.
So DeSantis, Trump, one of the conversations that's been coming up is the fact that, hey, Megan Kelly came out the other day and said, hey, Ron DeSantis, I'm not for Trump.
Everyone knows Megan Kelly is not somebody that's going around, you know, promoting Donald Trump.
We all don't know what happened, what kind of question.
She asked the first question.
We know this, right?
Okay.
She goes out and says, DeSantis is not going out there.
He's hiding.
You're afraid to come and be interviewed by me.
You're doing a softball interview by Pierce Morgan, and we know Pierce Morgan is more for you than it is for Trump.
Anyways, I don't need to get into it.
So then the conversation becomes on NBC or some of these places, like, I'm not going to go do the interview unless you say you apologize for this or for that or for this.
Is the strategy he's taken?
He hasn't announced yet.
You know, there's a lot of things you kind of educated us about Florida and some of the things which you can share with the audience.
He hasn't announced yet.
Do you think he's taking a right strategy right now, not going out there and doing a lot of interviews?
Dave, I'll go to you first.
Well, first off, I just want to say, I don't work for the campaign.
I've never been given a damn dime by the underground campaign manager.
Tell them the truth, Dave, so everybody knows.
I work for Tequila.
No, I've never been given anything.
Look, again, just to reiterate, the reason that I support the guy the way I do is because I see what he has done to my life.
And I suspect that many of you, if you live in Florida, are feeling the exact same thing.
And I just see what's going on here relative to a country right now that is upside down in so many ways.
As for the strategy related to that, I mean, the truth is I don't know if he's running.
Let's go on the assumption he's running for the purpose of this conversation.
There are some laws in the Florida legislature that he can't, he would have to step down.
I mean, he just won re-election by an unbelievable landslide.
I mean, don't forget the guy, you know, four years ago, he only beat Andrew Gillum, who turned out to be a meth addict.
He only beat him by 30,000 votes.
That's how close Florida got to basically being Illinois or New York or California at this point, once you factor in COVID.
So that's one thing.
So he'd have to figure out some of the legislative stuff, which, you know, they've got a supermajority here.
I think that'll work itself out.
I think the other part of this probably is, you know, if you're the guy that from where I sit, I think most people see as the most competent public leader that we have at this point.
A guy who also, as I said before, the age thing, I think he's about 45.
You know, he's got three kids.
He's a family man.
Think of all the people over the last, you know, six years who would say, you know, I get Trump on the policy.
I like the policies.
It's working the economies.
Cooking, peace in the Middle East, all that stuff.
I don't like the tweets and the attitude, right?
That was the whole thing.
I don't like the mean tweets.
Well, congratulations.
You got it with this guy.
So the point is, I think he can bring over the independents.
I think he can bring over the disaffected liberals like me, like this guy, like probably some people in this crowd.
He proved it here because he went from 30,000 votes to winning by about 1.6 million votes.
So I think he's the crossover guy.
But just to very clearly answer your question in terms of timing, you know, it's nice to make people wait, but at some point you can't.
At some point, you can't, right?
But it's nice to have people kind of going, oh, you're the guy, you're the guy.
And then they kind of drag you in.
But I suspect the mayor might have a different opinion on that.
No, I actually don't.
Let me just take off my Trump hat and put on my political expert hat.
I don't know that it's a bad strategy to wait.
That definitely would be clipped in a horrible way on the internet.
No, and I don't think that's the...
So one of the reasons people would say that is if a month or so, two months ago, looked like he was ahead.
Now it looks like DeSantis is behind.
I don't think it has anything to do with DeSantis.
I think it has to do with what they did to Trump.
I think if they are trying to get him nominated, the Democrats, they did him a real favor.
I mean, so he goes from being behind to being anywhere from five to 20 points ahead, 30 points ahead in many national polls.
And so if I were DeSantis' campaign, I wouldn't look so much.
I don't know there was much he could have done.
So if he were appearing over the last month on shows and being interviewed, I don't think it would have changed anything.
Because it's not a function of DeSantis.
It's a function of Trump being, in the minds of most Republicans, even the ones that don't support him, being unfairly treated.
And my objective, really, and I, you know, I'm Trump's lawyer.
He's been my friend for 34 years.
And I'd love to see him be re-elected.
And the main reason is because he's already done it.
And I know how difficult the presidency is.
I don't know it from having done it, but I worked for Ronald Reagan, and I've virtually lived in the Trump White House for two years as a lawyer.
You never know, and I like DeSantis a lot.
I appreciate him as an American.
I appreciate him as a Republican.
I don't think there's anything he said about him that isn't true in terms of his abilities as a governor and maybe some advantages he would have as a candidate.
But what I do know is I know exactly how Trump will react to the most difficult job that any American president is ever going to face, which is to take our government back from it's already been delivered over to socialism, if not totalitarianism in many respects.
It's inbred within the federal government.
The deep state really exists.
It is much, much worse than I ever thought.
And when Trump became president, I told him how bad the federal government was.
He probably didn't know as much as I knew how bad it was.
I was telling him a fairy tale when I was telling him that.
It is much worse than I thought.
It's going to take a man of tremendous courage to do it.
And he's going to have to start on day one.
I have no reason to believe that Trump, that DeSantis can't do that.
But I've seen people, once they get into office, into that office, not be able to do it.
And honestly, nobody knows that answer.
He could be a great governor, terrible president.
I don't say that he would be.
If Trump isn't a nominee, I will support DeSantis.
I probably will support any Republican over a Democrat.
And I'll feel pretty comfortable that he has a good record as a governor, therefore he'll be a good president.
But I won't be 100% sure that he'll be able to do all the things.
Trump already did it.
He delivered peace.
He delivered one of our most prosperous eras that we had.
He delivered the best economy for minorities that they've ever had.
He achieved a peaceful resolution, or seemed to be, in the Middle East.
I don't think there's anybody in this room that would doubt that Russia would not have invaded Ukraine if Trump were the president.
Just wouldn't have happened.
Just think of all those people that would be alive today if we hadn't made the mistake of electing Mr. Demented.
I mean, we would...
No, well, just think of it.
I mean, those people would be alive today.
Today he put out his Afghanistan report, and he blamed Afghanistan on Trump.
Although Afghanistan is not necessarily a mistake because we left, it's a perfectly reasonable decision to leave.
I think you could defend either decision, leave or stay.
It's how we left.
He handled how we left.
Trump didn't make the decision to take out the troops before you take out the civilians.
Now, I don't understand that.
I will never understand that decision.
There had to be somebody on his staff, even if he is demented, that would say to him, Mr. President, we usually do it the other way around.
We leave the troops so the civilians can leave.
And in a country that's dominated by terrorists, who these civilians have been fighting, you basically can get them all killed.
I mean, only a, I don't know, I don't even know if you're owned by China why you would do that, except Gates saying that he always makes the wrong decision about foreign policy.
It isn't that he makes the wrong decision about foreign policy.
In addition to being demented, before he was demented, he was profoundly stupid.
And no, and he was put there because he's profoundly stupid, because he can be manipulated.
So I don't know if I could take my hat off, Trump hat off, and say, if I were running DeSantis' campaign, I'd wait this out.
There are times in which it doesn't make sense to try to fight the inevitable.
This is too big for a candidate to take on, what's going on with Trump.
It's going to resolve itself.
You've got to have patience.
And then that's the time for him to move forward if that's what he wants to do.
Pat, at the end of the day, I guess I would say, who do you think can bring in more new voters?
Where can Trump go to find new votes?
If we're to believe that the last election was legit, now Trump doesn't believe it was legit, but if we're all playing in the pool that the election was legit, we know that he got 75 million votes and Biden got 81 million votes despite the dementia and everything else, right?
So if we believe that.
Let's not forget the most popular president of all time is Joe Biden.
I mean, we have to put the facts out of it.
It's incredible.
21 million votes, yeah.
Yeah, and the ice cream and all of it.
Corn pop, everybody.
But you know what it would be?
The question you're asking, I'll go to Adam.
And here's why I'm going to Adam, because of what you said earlier.
You know, we've spoken, you've spoken to Adam a couple times.
You know where he's at politically.
When Adam and I first met at an insurance conference years ago, I thought he was just a good-looking guy.
I'm like, this is a good-looking guy going around trying to sell people insurance, right?
And I said, hey, why don't you get on camera and do something, right?
And then, boom, next thing you know, he calls, hey, Pat, let's get together.
I'd love to come and join the Valet Tammany team.
He flies from Miami to Addison is staying with us for a couple of years.
It's not been two and a half years.
And I asked him, I said, so tell me politically where you stand.
What do you think about Trump?
What do you think about all these guys?
And his opinions was very like, there's no way in the world, you know, Russia, all this other stuff.
Adam, for yourself, two and a half years, three years, you've seen what's happened, okay?
You're not the biggest Trump supporter.
You got a guy that you got DeSantis here in Florida.
How do you feel as an independent?
You used to be a center left.
You're maybe in the middle right now.
How do you feel as a voter between Trump and DeSantis?
Well, thank you.
Well, number one, what a great looking crowd we got here.
Just before I answer this, I'm going to be pander the crowd for a second.
Great to see everybody here.
But I think Dave's absolutely right.
Because for me, it's all about upside.
We know that Trump's upside is 50% at best.
Did he ever reach above a 50% approval rating?
Ever.
He might have.
He might have at one point, but it's actually moved at this point.
It's like, where are the new voters now?
And if the Republican Party wants to get independence, because that's what it's all about, we say this all the time on the podcast.
45% of America's voting left, 45% of America's voting right.
There's nothing you could do about it, whether you're Bernie Sanders, whether you're Rudy Giuliani, they're going there.
So you got to figure out the 10%, where are they willing to go?
And I think, so everyone has a tipping point with Trump, in my opinion.
So whether it was, you know, for me, it was the whole, what are your thoughts about David Duke?
He's like, I don't even know who David Duke is.
He's like, he's the leader of the Ku Klux Klan.
I don't know who that is.
Everyone has a tipping point.
And I kind of want to find out when your tipping point was.
But for me, if you're asking me like, Adam, what do you stand for?
I'm just sick of Americans at each other's throat.
Half my friends are Republicans.
Half my friends are Democrats.
And they're like, all my Republican friends are like, you're a freaking socialist, liberal, whack job.
And all my liberal friends are like, you're a MAGA supporting, like, crazy person.
I'm like, I'm just a cool dude that lives in Miami.
They have two cats.
Can I just hang out with some chicks and hang on my buddies?
Like, no, you have to pick a side.
It's like, I don't want to pick a side because I think both sides are kind of ridiculous right now.
But he's trying to say DeSantis very slowly.
Yes.
You see what's happening here.
Yes.
For me, I think it's what president or what candidate, I know you said that DeSantis hasn't declared yet.
You're not sure if he's going to run.
He's going to run.
You're not like top of the polls and decide to pull back.
What candidate can get to a 60% approval rating?
And I say this all the time.
And what can Donald Trump do to get north of 50%?
There's nothing that we've seen, seen that can get us there.
And I think there's something to your credit.
There's something about DeSantis, whether it's the youth, whether it's the way he handled COVID, whether what he's done in Florida, that there's something so attractive about the guy that even though he hasn't announced his candidacy yet, people are still clamoring for him.
By the way, guys, don't forget, you know, Joe Rogan, who has a pretty popular podcast and obviously knew that Biden was broken and this whole thing was fraudulent, Rogan didn't vote instead of saying I was going to vote for Trump, right?
So he didn't want to take that risk, but he has since said that he would support DeSantis.
Elon Musk, who is a lifetime Democrat, has now said that he would vote for DeSantis.
So it shows you that something culturally beyond just the politics of who can change this vote and what do you think on that policy or what's going on with the trial, there's something else culturally going on here where some of the tastemakers are finally being like, boy, I thought that Republicans were supposed to be these mean, evil, scary people who only cared about money and war, but actually it's not the case.
And DeSantis is modeling it.
Let me ask you a question.
What was the moment?
Because you were, you know, supporter of Trump.
You voted for Trump 16 and 20.
No, not 16.
I voted for Gary Johnson, the independent, really, because I wore a phone when I was going into the voting booth.
Yeah.
Right.
So you came around.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So you didn't go Joe Jorgensen in 20.
No, I wasn't up.
No, and I was just saying, why not joke in Joe?
No, because by that point, I really liked President Trump, and I completely agree with Rudy, the things that he just laid out there.
But by the way, historically, you know, Joe Jorgensen is known as one of the greatest debaters of all time.
Did you see what happened to Jesus?
She in her retirement after going on PVD podcast.
Oh, you did it to her too?
Because you know what happened on my show?
She goes through an hour of explaining everything.
And I'm like, yeah, you know, I'm very sympathetic to libertarian ideas.
And I voted for Gary Johnson.
And then she did the stupidest thing you can possibly do on a show like ours.
She goes, so Dave, are you going to vote for me?
And I was like, no.
No.
I'm voting for Trump.
So she just walked.
She just laid.
And you can see the moment.
It got clipped up.
You can see her die like slow motion, you know.
What was the moment where you cool shoes, by the way.
Al, 75 bucks.
Save that money.
Why don't you, Adam?
This is a more important part than what you're talking about because while we're having dinner, here's what we learned from Dave.
I think it's very important to all the political strategists to pay attention to this part because there may be a big clue here.
Dave pointed out that typically dog owners are Republicans.
And he pointed out that cat owners are Democrats.
So one of the things that Republicans got to think about is the next time DeSantis is doing an ad, he should pet a cat to get some of the people to be like, hey, you're a Republican.
You're a Republican.
You're a Republican.
And maybe you can convert some based on what Dave, you pointed out tonight.
I thought it was a brilliant strategy.
That's better political analysis than you're going to get on CNN tonight.
Well, I will nominate my two cats for DeSantis' campaign rally.
What was the moment that you officially said, all right, Donald Trump, thank you for your service.
I'm on the DeSantis train now.
What was the moment?
Well, that I was on the DeSantis.
Look, again, I like Trump, so it's not, it's just from being here.
I expect.
So you're about DeSantis now.
Yeah.
Look, I've seen it.
I've seen what you all see in this state.
Crime is not running rampant.
Taxes are low.
We have lowest all-time unemployment here.
The biggest problem in Florida, and I asked DeSantis this on the show a couple weeks ago, we have a housing price problem because 1,200 people move here a day.
A million people in three years.
It's roughly equivalent to the million that left California.
So it simply is a matter of seeing something functional and competent.
And you are voting for DeSantis, my friend.
I'm in it.
Yeah, there you go.
So are you basically saying that if Gavin Newsom was the nominee of the Democratic Party, there's no chance that you would support your old friend, Governor Gavin Newsom?
Oh, God.
This is where Dave gets triggered, by the way.
I hate Gavin Johnson.
You did that on purpose.
I've never hated someone so much.
I don't like having the feeling of hate.
I honestly, you know, people say they're a lizard people.
I actually believe he's a lizard person.
I believe he is a lizard wearing the skin, much like Silence of the Lambs.
Like he has created a human body out of human skin, and he's wearing it.
He's a Claris.
Yeah, lotion in the basket.
He is an evil, evil freak, and I would just leave the country.
Yeah, that would be it.
That would be it for me.
Okay, so let's go to a different topic.
I kind of want to talk.
Can I just say something about this?
Yeah.
Yeah, of course.
Of course.
I think your analysis is naive.
It's much too early to know how good a candidate DeSantis will be.
He came out of the gate when they first thought about him very strong.
He lost that lead very easily.
As a political, I mean, I ran for president.
I've been involved in four presidential campaigns.
The frontrunner usually loses the nomination.
Usually.
That's more often than wins it.
And if I were analyzing DeSantis, I would say his initial lead was ephemeral, not solid, because it wouldn't have been lost that quickly with the indictment and the whole thing.
And right now he's substantially behind.
And there are other candidates as well.
And their object, like you were wondering, why does Vivek go after DeSantis and not Trump?
Because he's got to get past DeSantis.
DeSantis is in a position where the other Republicans will go after him before they will go after Trump.
Because in order to vie with Trump, they have to become DeSantis.
And secondly, there's no price you pay in going after DeSantis.
He's not an icon of 40% of the people.
He's a good-looking guy.
He's a very good voice.
Yeah, but nobody loves him.
Well, they don't know him.
They just know him in Florida.
The raspy voice.
You don't like the raspy voice?
That's a sexy voice.
I was sent to Florida to help him win in 18 because he was losing to Gillem.
The guy that got him through was Trump.
He got through on Trump's popularity.
Oh, you're talking Newsome right now or DeSantis?
I'm talking about DeSantis.
He was not a particularly good candidate.
You were talking about...
I'm talking...
I'm still on like Newsom.
By the way, here's the other question.
Here's the other question.
I'm thinking he's talking Newsome.
Here's the other question, though.
For the Democratic side, okay, go a completely different angle.
So you as a Republican, who do you want to run into give you the highest chances of winning?
Do you want it to be Biden or do you think Newsom stands a better chance?
No, I think Newsom.
Newsome look in tall, well-spoken, goes to French laundry.
I think Newsom would be, it's hard to see.
This is so ridiculous analyzing who's easier to beat, because usually the person you think is easier to beat is the person who beats you.
The examples like Reagan and Trump and probably others that I can think of.
Right now, I'd worry about Biden because it's so damn corrupt.
And for some reason, I mean, he's unpopular.
His unpopularity is up around 56, 57%.
It should be about 65%.
I mean, there's still kind of an affection for him that's scary.
I mean, he is a terrible president.
But let's put everything aside.
DeSantis, Trump, everything aside.
He probably is definitely the worst president in my lifetime.
He may be the worst president ever.
I'm trying to think of a president that hurt this country more than him in a short period of time.
Got people killed because of his incompetence, like Afghanistan.
Those people would have competed.
It wouldn't have just been Trump who would have said no to taking out the troops before the, almost any sane person would do that.
How about leaving $45 billion worth of lethal arms behind at Begram Airbase in a country dominated by terrorists who you know are going to use them to kill your own people, which they have done.
That decision can only be made by a traitor or a madman.
I mean, the guy has been a terrible president.
But there's something.
Mr. Giuliani.
No, but there's something.
There's something scary about him.
The American people don't register that.
They watch him three weeks ago, four weeks ago, he told the story about giving his uncle the Congressional Medal of Honor.
His uncle didn't want it.
And his father told him at his inauguration, his vice president, that his uncle had never gotten his medal.
So he organized a big ceremony in the White House and gave him the medal.
Now, here are the facts.
His uncle never got the Congressional Medal of Honor.
There's no evidence of it anywhere.
His uncle was dead for five years before he was in the White House.
And his father was dead for seven years before he was in the White House.
He repeated the story after being told that a week later.
So about two months later.
The guy's delusional.
Do you remember about two months ago out of nowhere, he was given a speech and he announced that he had cancer, and then literally everybody was like, he doesn't have cancer.
That's just the dementia.
It's like, that's the level that we're at.
He should be more unpopular.
There's something going on.
I mean, he should be whatever, whatever, he should have the highest disapproval ratings of any president.
I want to go to Tom.
Tom, for you, we've been friends for 15 years.
You grew up, you lived in Florida, Boca, right around here.
You grew up, you've lived in Connecticut, California.
We've lived together in California, Texas, and Florida.
We met in California.
You've done very well in business, Silicon Valley.
You've been professor at Biola, Pepperdown.
You've done all this stuff.
You're married.
You got two kids.
Your daughters are about to go to school.
Your wife is here with us.
When you're looking at all the things that's going on right now, okay, for yourself, you got DeSantis, you got Newsom, you got Trump.
I want you to speak from the paranoid side, because you got a paranoid side as a business person, because we have to be, or else you'll go out of business.
From the paranoid side, what's keeping you up at night saying, this is my concern.
If XYZ happens, we could be in the same situation as we were 2 and a half years ago.
What are you thinking?
Well, I feel like I'm watching, you know, Japanese kabuki theater play out, you know, with the media and the things that they're bouncing right now.
I look at it and I say, wow, isn't it sort of coincidental that a very well-versed research group drops 500 pages of OPO research on the very day that the indictment is finally dropped by a man convinced by the Democratic Party to become a kamikaze pilot, which is bragg.
And I think that's basically what's happened to his job.
I think he's just basically taking one for the team.
They promising a book deal, and that's what's going to be right.
You're going to be out of office.
You get a book deal, just like the press secretaries do, or you'll get a show on MSNBC, you're all going to be good.
I look at it and I say, wait a minute, what's going on that we see here down below here?
This is a pretty skillful game that's being played.
And it bothers me.
And what it bothers me is that we've lost the ability to rationally debate one another over core issues, but protect the soil that we're standing on that allows us to have free speech and have that debate.
You know, that's my concern.
And what keeps me up at night is like, you know, you're arguing on a podium that may be on fire and you're both going to fall through if you follow the metaphor.
Of course.
And I'm like, you know, be careful what you wish for.
And I had, you know, I've had a lot of liberal friends in California.
We got along well.
We worked at the same companies.
You know, for five years, you know, I had, you know, a gay boss.
I didn't care.
You know, was he a good boss or not?
And we all got along.
There was no animus on, oh, you're this, you're this.
There wasn't like this dividing line.
Like, I feel like today, if I had that, if I flipped back the clock to be 30 years old again and had the same situation, would there be this different vibe that's going on between people?
And I think there would be, and I think it's terrible.
And what keeps me up at night is that I look at my girls and I say, what platform is there going to be tomorrow to have rational discussions about people with people about things that matter?
And I think we need to have like a strong leader rise up to be the president who can basically pull people together, but do it from a period of a position of strength, from a position of poise, from a position of leadership.
I mean, one of the greatest compliments people gave Reagan, and I go back on this, is when they said other countries, remember when they said he's crazy?
What that meant was that they were a little afraid of him, and that little afraid became respect.
Because, you know what?
It's not that he might push the button and blow up the whole world with nukes, but he was willing to take, you know, Kaiser Sosa move, the one move that the other guy wouldn't.
And it kind of keeps seeing some balance, just strong leadership.
So what keeps me up is waiting for strong leadership to emerge and waiting for America to come back.
Do you think there's a chance that Biden or Newsom gets in the White House in 2024?
Like, is there a concern that one of those two could be in the White House in 2024?
Yeah, my concern is that what they're doing here is inflaming a wing of the GOP to give Trump enough juice to win the primary because I think that they are scared spitless of a moderate candidate with potential like DeSantis.
Got it.
I think they're terrified of that.
How many guys feel that way, by the way?
How many guys feel the way he's saying right now?
Really?
Really?
Okay, very.
By the way, just out of curiosity, how many of you guys don't have that concern?
Make some noise if you're not.
So more have that concern.
So on the same sentiments as you.
Interesting.
Let me ask you a question, Pat.
I mean, I guess I could ask it to everyone here.
What would you say is DeSantis' biggest downside, right?
We can all pick apart Trump's biggest downside, but what would DeSantis' biggest downside would be?
I think, I don't want to speak for the mayor, but I think what you would say is he hasn't done it before, and this job is so big that it can eat anybody alive.
But let's not forget, it kind of ate Trump alive, too.
And again, I voted for him and supported him.
He kept Fauci the entire time.
He ended up fighting and firing with him.
That's the question.
What would you say?
Okay, here's what I would say.
I think DeSantis and his camp need to come together at his house or the office and sit down and watch the documentary of Roger Ailes that's called Divide and Conquer and see how a 25-26-year-old Roger Ailes helped a Nixon who was a brilliant operator but was not good on camera become a marketer so he can get elected because Ailes understood marketing.
Nixon did not.
Nixon wasn't a marketable product.
He was not charming.
He was not charismatic.
Nixon helped with McConnell.
Nixon helped with Hannity, O'Reilly, all of these guys.
Not Nixon, I'm sorry, Ailes.
You need an Ails in your life, right?
Everybody needs an Ells in your life.
This is my first campaign manager.
There you go, Roger.
One of my best friends, and I was his lawyer.
How great of a campaign manager was he?
He had a $40 million deal with Fox, which is one of the reasons Fox hates me.
Because they only wanted to give him $20 million.
So I know Roger was a very close person.
But hear me out on what I'm saying.
This is the point I'm making.
So I think, I think, first of all, man, I'm going to upset a lot of people.
The chances of me ever interviewing DeSantis and him coming to our podcast every day goes lower and lower and lower the more I say what I say.
He'll come to you and you can ask the question that I say and then you can post it.
That's a good word for it.
But let me tell you what my concern is.
Here's my concern.
My call out is to the following.
Who the hell is on his marketing team?
Why the hell do you come out with this book in February knowing you can't launch till July and the book drops out of 100 ranking on Amazon one month later?
What the hell are you thinking?
If you know you can't run till July, you don't launch a book till June.
What are you doing launching a book in February?
Do it in late May.
Do it in June.
And then go on a ton of podcasts.
Go on a ton of shows.
Make sure your book is number one.
You're being too tough on it.
I can be targeted.
No, no, no, no.
Wait a minute.
Let me see you.
The first time candidate.
First time candidates make mistakes.
But no, it's not about, I'm not calling him out.
I didn't call him out.
I'm calling his marketing team out.
My conversation is to the marketing team.
This is not a call out to him.
I think he's a phenomenal candidate.
I think he's crushed it.
We're in Florida because of him.
When we were in Dallas and I'm getting ready to go through the process of selling the insurance company, my wife and I and the family sat down and we looked at moving back to Newport Beach.
Newsome eliminated that decision like this.
We were looking at moving to Greenwich because we're starting a media company and I'd much rather be in New York to compete with these guys.
We're looking at Nashville.
I lived in Nashville for a couple years right outside of it.
We're looking at Tampa.
We're looking at Fort Lauderdale.
We're looking at Miami.
We're looking at Manalopan.
Or we're looking at staying in Dallas where Dallas was eliminated.
Greenwich was eliminated because of the way they were handling COVID.
Nashville, we like the water.
The beach is not that good in Nashville.
We like the beach more in Florida.
So we decided on Florida because of DeSantis.
So this is not a message I'm giving.
It's the criticism to the marketing campaign.
I went and talked to one of the biggest churches in town.
I won't name the person.
They came and we started working with these guys.
I sat with their marketing team and I said, can I just talk to your marketing team directly and give me the pressure permission to call them out and let them be pissed off at me, not you?
He says, go for it.
I said, you're dealing in a time right now where parents are frightened to send them to public school because their kids are coming home saying, mom, a guy, I got a call on a Mac 7 this week saying a guy was holding one of our guys' hands in a private school in Dallas saying, hey, I like you.
I'm gay.
This kid is 10 years old, 12 years old, flirting with this other guy.
The mom doesn't know how to handle it.
She's worried.
She's afraid.
What does she do about it?
So many parents right now are frightened.
I work to send their kids transgender.
Well, this kid's transgender.
How about you?
Have you thought about having this?
Are you sure you're straight?
Is it only this?
Have you thought about having this?
All this confusion that you have, churches should be packed right now.
Every church in America should be packed right now.
What the hell are the marketing teams at these churches doing?
So my call is not a call out to the pastors.
My call is a call out to the marketing team of the DeSantis campaign.
That's all it is.
Not Ron.
It's the marketing team.
Well, actually, I think, first off, I will gladly, I'm sure you guys have reached out in every possible way, but I will gladly try to get that up the chain.
That's just one thing because you should.
His marketing team.
You should sit down with DeSantis.
Stay away from PBD.
No, they won't.
But think about it.
You were watching.
You know you did.
Oh, did you?
You said stay away from PDD because you're scared, marketing team.
Not Ron.
You are.
They're holding on to PPE.
You're known as as fair as possible.
So I don't know what's going on there, but putting that aside for a second, what your criticism of, which is totally legit, you have a very solvable problem, right?
What you just laid out there was a very solvable problem.
Terrible timing on the book.
You could be the guy to sit down with him and say, hey, this is what the problem is, and I can actually help you solve for that.
He doesn't trust a lot of people, which you can't blame him.
That may be, but in essence, you're giving, I asked you for the biggest criticism, and your criticism, which I'm not arguing with, is actually very solvable.
Like you can be.
It is.
Yes.
So that doesn't seem that deep.
Not that deep.
It doesn't seem to be a problem.
Hey, how do you launch a book and you only do a couple shows thinking the book is going to sell on its own?
Well, I think it was number one New York Times for a while.
For that long.
But that whole thing is nonsense.
Yeah.
That shouldn't be the case with the number one governor in America that had a state that everybody wanted to move to.
That should not be the case.
I read the whole book.
That should not be the case.
And if you read the book, you will see how many times he gave credit to Trump in the book.
A lot of people on New York Times or somebody wrote an op-ed saying the fact that he never gave a, he took shots at Trump.
There was no shots at Trump.
He kept giving credit if it wasn't for the tweet, if it wasn't for this, if it wasn't for that.
That book was marketed in the shittiest way possible.
Again, I'm okay being the target.
All I'm saying is the marketing team deserves the criticism.
Sure, I'll also say this, having launched my second book just a couple months before that.
I mean, I fired basically everyone I worked with.
The book industry is so old and broken.
It's not a good idea.
But that's not anywhere.
I'm not saying that's anything.
You can't blame the book.
I'm dealing with Simon and Schuster and Penguin.
Here's what I said to them the other day.
We have a call.
If Mario somewhere around here, he remembers when he was on the call.
Mario's somewhere on here.
They said, well, we think this should be the title.
I said, okay, cool.
You want that as a title?
If anybody can hear you, you want that as a title?
Yes.
Okay.
Oh, we think this should be the title.
I said, can I just pause and ask a question?
Yes.
If you guys plan on selling the shit out of this, pick the title.
Go for it.
But if you want me to sell the book, I want this title.
And he sees everybody's faces.
This is a pretty heavyweight guy.
I got a lot of respect for you.
I love this guy, man.
He's a son of a guy.
He says, well, you know what?
Why don't you pick the title?
I said, no, shit, I want to pick the title.
Because you want me to sell the book.
You don't sell a book nowadays asking the publisher to sell your book.
They're not marketers.
No, they do nothing.
So again, marketing team, change your strategy.
Watch the Roger L's documentary, Divide and Conquer, tonight.
Can I solvable problem, yeah?
By the way, he made me watch that documentary.
Amazing, amazing documentary.
Go watch that tonight when you get home, guys.
But I feel like you have a product and you have marketing.
We talked about this.
Natalia will know this.
I would much rather have a marketing problem than a product problem.
Because if you have a shitty product, what the hell are you marketing?
Okay?
But if you have a great product, i.e. Ron DeSantis, you can clean up the marketing.
So say what you want about Trump.
He does not have a marketing problem.
The problem is kind of the product.
But DeSantis, in my opinion, I think is a great product, but he needs to relook into his marketing.
I think that was a very irresponsible comment about him not being a great product.
He was probably the best president we've had in 50 years.
So when DeSantis can be the best president for four years, I'll agree with you.
But DeSantis hasn't been in the White House.
He was not a particularly effective congressman.
He was a terrible candidate when he ran the first time for office.
And by the way, let me finish.
You can't separate the product and the marketing.
That's bullshit.
That's lack of leadership.
I never separated from my team.
I'm responsible for my marketing.
I'm responsible for my press secretary.
I'm responsible for my administration.
If I did that, I would have been a lousy mayor.
So if you're telling me that you want to do a separation of, well, let's blame the marketing, but not the guy who's in charge, Ron DeSantis, you don't have a leader.
You got a follower.
The marketing team is running everything.
Of course he's responsible for his marketing.
He's responsible for everything that happens in the damn campaign.
And if he's not, he shouldn't be president.
We don't know if he is like that.
I honestly, I think it's more important that we keep Democrats out of the White House than any of these guys.
Than DeSantis, than Trump, than Cruz.
I'd be willing to consider somebody else if they had a better chance of saving this country.
RFK?
Robert.
No, I know RFK for years.
He sued me more than anybody else.
And I love his book, but the rest of them is off space in Mars somewhere.
Did you ever listen to some of the things that he says?
I mean, woo!
Great guy, but woo!
So, no, he can't be president.
My God.
Wow.
That would be scary.
But in any event, we Ron DeSantis right now is an ephemeral something.
It's a year and a half before the election.
He's not really campaigned, as you pointed out.
That's his responsibility, not his marketing team, unless his marketing team is running things.
Right.
If if if I don't like I run my campaign.
Roger Ailes is my campaign manager.
I still ran my campaign.
I didn't blame, when something went wrong, I didn't blame it on Roger Ailes.
I don't think that's Ron's personality, though.
I see Ron as a leader.
I see Ron as an executive.
I see Ron as somebody like Ron.
I see Ron as a person who was a great project manager.
What happened on Ukraine?
He's such a leader.
Why the hell did he sort of change his position on Ukraine?
He's got three different positions on Ukraine.
But that part, Rudy, I would say...
Ooh, ooh, ooh.
I don't know.
So he becomes an isolationist to suck up to Tucker Carlson.
And then he becomes a Reagan Republican.
So you're calling him a flip-flopper is what you're saying?
No, I'm saying it's a dangerous tendency.
Don't go.
Politics is not a game of love at first sight.
You don't get to know somebody.
He could be a great candidate.
He may not be.
You don't know that.
He shows some very good tendencies and he shows some very big weaknesses.
That flipping around on Ukraine was very dangerous.
So flip-flop is what you're saying.
That's the word.
One time you did.
I'm an immigrant, but English is a different person.
Let's see if that's him or let's see if that was a mistake.
I'm willing to say he's a new time candidate.
We don't know.
We do not know how he's going to bear up under running for governor of Florida and running for president of the United States is like running for school president and then running for major office.
I don't think there's any dispute there.
I wouldn't disagree with you there, but I would also say that.
So I've seen people who are great candidates statewide who totally fall apart as presidential candidates.
And I'm not going to say he will, but I'd be careful betting the whole thing on him because he's shown some tendencies, some weaknesses.
If they are really weaknesses, he won't be there at the end, as many frontrunners were not there at the end.
So I'm not even sure he'll eventually be Trump's major opposition.
I can tell you, Trump will be there at the end.
He owns 40% of the party.
You also got to be careful how bad you go after him, because then you won't be able to win.
You've got to run as a candidate running against him.
Yeah, it's great to bring new people in.
A bit of a fantasy also.
The only person that's been able to bring a lot of new, only two people have brought a lot of new people into politics since Reagan.
Obama and Trump.
Trump won the first time with new people.
we got a few people here so I don't know if who was the first clapper who was the first clapper Kenyok, we're already in the middle of the morning.
I'm not sure.
I'm not sure you win elections in America.
When I ran for office, which is ages ago, you won by going to the middle.
There were the liberals, the conservatives, and then there was the middle.
And I won being mayor of New York by going to the middle.
I had to win in a Democratic state.
I don't know if you can win that way anymore.
I don't know if there's enough of a middle.
I'm not sure.
You might be able to.
But I'm not sure that going to the middle, you lose your base.
And here's what I always advise Trump.
I don't care what CNN says about you.
I don't care what MSNBC says about you.
I don't care what the liberals say about you.
It's not going to hurt you.
When I start seeing your base turn, then we start to worry.
Because you can't exist in politics without a solid base any longer.
That's what Biden has for sick reasons.
And that's what Trump has.
And that's why they may be the two most dangerous candidates.
You may only be able to win now by appealing to your base and bringing them out more than the other guys, or just plain cheating.
That's another way to win.
They're good at that.
Yeah, and don't discount that.
Mr. Mayor, we've asked this question repeatedly, but I would love to get your take on this.
But is there any chance that you see if Trump gets the nominee, him pinning Governor DeSantis as his running mate for VP?
He can't.
They're both in the same state.
One of them would have to move out of Florida.
A president and vice president can't run if they're residents of the same state.
Paid 793.
You didn't read that.
I delivered up to 600.
He's scared of it.
I stopped at 600, Pat.
I'll do better.
But I don't know that either one of them would be the right vice presidential.
But if he could, let's say he really wanted him and Trump re-domiciled to New York, let's just say.
It would depend a little on the primary and how strong Kamala Harris started the Democratic primary looking invincible, right?
She beat the living daylights out of Biden in the first debate.
By the second debate, Tulsi Gabbard had totally ripped her apart and proved that she's one of the silliest people ever in American politics.
So what do you think, Dave?
It would depend on how good a candidate he is.
Well, it's interesting because if I'm getting this right, the two biggest criticisms of DeSantis seem to be that he had a shoddy book launch, which, okay, let's say that's kind of right.
Which again got to number one on New York Times bestseller as much bullshit as that thing is.
You can tell that they left my last book off the list.
But so he, so, okay, he screwed up a book launch, let's say, and let's just say everyone in this room agrees with that, and that he hasn't been president before.
Well, most presidents haven't been president before, and I don't know that you can blame the guy for a book launch, so I haven't heard any real criticism of the guy, right?
What I did say about the Ukraine flip.
Okay, so all right, that I would count as a criticism.
A little bit of a flip, a flipping on a very important subject that you should be prepared for if you are a presidential candidate.
Not as bad as Ted Kennedy not knowing why he's running for president.
I mean, that was your point.
That was the classic thing.
Well, the microphone is missing.
There's nothing here.
I could feel it in the room.
There's not much.
No one's going, oh, he's got this policy that really screwed us.
He's wrong on the schools.
He's wrong on ESG.
But you're running against a guy who actually did it already.
You're running against a guy, you're gambling a teeny bit.
Let's say you're gambling a teeny bit when you don't have to gamble at all.
You know that Trump will straighten out the economy.
But Trump's president.
Trump lost the last election.
I don't think he lost the last election.
Here we go.
Yeah, we go.
Rudy.
I'll go further than that.
I'm one of the few people that knows he didn't lose the last election.
If you want to come to my house and go into my study, I'll show you a thousand affidavits to prove it.
Rudy, there'll be 2,000 people in front of your house tomorrow.
Don't say something like that.
I do.
He's joking, folks.
I'm not joking.
He's joking.
They're going to Google your address.
Rudy, open the door, Rudy.
He did not lose the White House on election night into the next day.
He was ahead in Pennsylvania by 750,000 votes.
It is statistically impossible for him to have lost Pennsylvania.
Now, watch the movie 2,000 Mules if you want.
You can watch three or four other movies.
You could watch the older documentary about the machines that we used that were tested before the election, and the Democrats objected to them.
Dominion.
Dominion, right.
Isn't there a lawsuit right now still pending with Dominion?
And what's the number they're going after?
Is it Fox, 1.6 billion, or whatever the number you're hearing about?
Yeah.
That's a dodge.
That's being done.
to try to frighten people into going after them.
Actually, it's a great tactic by his lawyers.
You can't do a prior restraint under American law.
You can't go in and stop somebody from speaking.
But you can intimidate them into not speaking.
And that's what that lawsuit is all about.
It has made even stations like Fox and Newsmax like, oh, we're not going to mention Dominion.
We're not going to mention Dominion.
Brilliant strategy by the lawyers.
Unethical as hell, but a brilliant strategy by the lawyers.
We're not going to do it.
But I'm telling you, he did not lose the last election.
Even though he should have, because everything was stacked against him.
And not only that, the hard drive was suppressed.
And American people never knew 90% of what was in there on purpose.
But Barudi, I would say this to you.
Dirty politics is nothing new.
That is nothing new.
It's going to be here.
It's not going away.
OK, that that is not going to be to to sit there and say, well, that's why he lost.
Well, then they're going to do it again.
And again.
Well, they'll do it.
He won.
Yeah.
But no, no, all I'm saying to you is...
You think they won't cheat against DeSantis?
DeSantis will get nominated and the Democrats will say, oh, we'll give it to him.
Yes.
We can cheat.
we own pennsylvania yeah but it's kind of like we would cheat in philadelphia just for practice And we're not going to cheat against DeSantis.
He's going to have the same problem.
In fact, he's going to become a very polarizing figure if he continues to maintain the positions he has as governor.
See, but I'm nationally.
But I was a very criticism they get.
Here's the criticism, though.
The criticism is, if the campaign is they cheated, believe it or not.
That's not the campaign.
Hang on a second.
Let me just give you my point of view.
Why I think that's a bad approach or even to even talk about it.
Why?
Let me give you my perspective.
You can push back all you want.
When you say something like that, you know what it does?
Here's the bullshit conversation I hear that's very annoying.
You know what the conversation is?
Well, why vote anyways?
They're going to cheat.
Why would I vote?
The more you say that, that's not a good strategy in my opinion.
And the more you don't say it, you suppress doing it and then continue to do it.
No, no.
In order to solve a problem, you have to face it.
If you suppress, if you accept their unbelievable distortion of our system by cheating in an election, you might as well give up this country.
You can say that all you want.
Nobody's disagreeing with you and sitting there saying that's not like weaponizing or doing all this stuff that they're doing.
Fine, they're doing it.
You still have to beat them.
Of course you have to beat them.
You still have to beat them.
I didn't say we shouldn't beat them.
What I'm telling you is I'm not going to go around and say to people something that I know is untrue.
You can't say they're going to cheat and then say, well, go out there and vote.
Because when you say they're going to cheat, and you got to say, listen, guys, we don't know what's going to happen.
Let's assume the worst.
Here's what's important.
Get everybody to go.
Your mom, your dad, your this, your auntie, get everybody to show up.
We don't know if it's going to happen.
When you're competing in the free marketplace, you know, my guys will have a room and they'll say, well, Patrick, let me tell you, that office, they do this, and they refinance and cash out and put money in variable annuities.
But we can't beat those guys.
I'm like, dude, don't even bring that up.
You didn't say you can't beat them.
I said they cheated in the last election.
I didn't say you can't beat them.
And it's very, very different to cheat in marketing and to fix an election in a Democratic country.
I mean, that's a massive.
If you let people do it, if you stay quiet about it, it becomes the norm.
You've got to raise it.
You've got to urge your people to work harder.
You've got to urge your people to get out and get up off their backsides and vote.
You've got to get Republicans to change their pattern of voting just on Election Day.
And in states that have this, you know, talk about that.
Two years of voting, you've got to get them off that.
Okay, so then talk about that.
Okay, for example, so approach.
Okay, approach.
You ever see guys like we're watching who was fighting?
Usman was fighting who when he lost the first time.
Who was Usman fighting when Edwards?
Edwards.
Remember the first fight?
You're like, oh, this thing's over with.
We're sitting in the house.
We're watching.
This fight is over with.
Minute, 10 seconds left.
What does Usman do?
Who saw that fight?
He kept backing up, backing up, backing up.
Boom!
Kick comes.
Look, how the hell did this just happen?
Meaning, a strategy that worked for Trump to win, you can't go away from that strategy.
His strategy was policies.
We're going to make America great again.
We're going to build a border.
We're going to do that.
That's what he's doing.
That's actually what he just did in the last speech.
I agree, this speech.
But if the strategy is going to be, you know, let us say it's unfair.
Let the people say it's unfair what they're doing.
Let everybody else say it's unfair what they're doing.
Let us be the flag carrier.
I don't think that can come out to say, well, you know, they did this to me and they did that to me.
I don't know if that's how you want to do it.
I think the Democrat strategy has worked on you, which is to intimidate us into raising the fact that they cheated in the last election.
Well over 55% of the American people, maybe up to 60%, believe that they cheated in the last election.
I think 100% of people believe cheating is going on.
How many guys believe there's cheating every single time in every election?
I don't think it's 55%.
I think it's 100%.
I didn't say cheating in every election.
I said cheating in that election to win.
There's no reason not to win.
What other reason would somebody cheat, though?
You cheat to win.
I think it's done every single time.
But you don't always win when you cheat.
But you either cheat and you don't win.
But it doesn't mean that it's not a tactic that's been used like it just started two years ago.
But it's a tactic that you have to end.
You can't tolerate that.
So then I would say, what has he done to end it?
Let's say we all, every single person, forget DeSantis.
Let's say DeSantis is like, I'm just going to move to the Everglades.
That's it.
I'm out.
So now Trump is the nominee for sure.
And virtually everyone in this room is willing to support the guy.
What has he done in Pennsylvania?
What has he done in Arizona?
What has he done in these swing states to fix any of that?
Because otherwise, it will be election night 2024, and he'll be leading in those last seven states just like last time.
I was on air with the Daily Wire guys that night on election night.
I left early because it was so obvious that Trump was going to win and I wanted to get home.
So they will do the same damn thing because nobody's done anything.
What has anyone done in Pennsylvania?
Or I watch 2000 Mules.
I like Dinesh.
It's like, all right, what's going to stop this again?
Here's what will stop it again.
And there's been some progress made, not complete.
So Georgia, Wisconsin, even with the new Supreme Court, the Republicans won every other race in Wisconsin.
That was a function of the abortion issue.
With a Republican landslide in Wisconsin, and the Republican justice lost, and the Democratic justice won.
So they got a liberal court, and that became the news.
Actually, Wisconsin was a big Republican landslide.
They got a supermajority in both houses of the legislature.
Wisconsin passed a law, so you can't do, we can go into detail, you can't do in this election what you did in the last election, which is a massive number of mail-in ballots.
They restricted significantly mail-in ballots.
Georgia passed a law that will seriously restrict the ability to do that.
Those are two states where you'll probably get an honest count this time.
Pennsylvania, you couldn't pass the law because the Democrats control both houses of the legislature.
And you had a crooked governor, you have another crooked governor, and he was part of the cheating in the first place.
So Pennsylvania, you're going to have to do volunteers.
You're going to have to do voter integrity efforts.
The first election that I ran for mayor, I lost by half a percent.
And I had well over 50,000 questionable votes.
I lost by 30,000.
And I decided not to contest it.
I was young.
I was a new candidate.
I was the first Republican to get 48% since Fiorello LaGuardia in a city that Abraham Lincoln lost twice.
I'll give you an idea how Democratic it is.
And everyone said, well, this is almost like a victory.
It's nice for them to say that when you lose, but you could have a great future in politics getting up to 48%.
And I lost to the first black mayor of New York.
If I had contested that election, my political career would be over.
I honestly believe they cheated.
I mean, a different kind of cheating.
They would pay people to vote 10 times.
And that's why you keep the dead people on the voting list.
You keep them there because the party operative in that district has all their names.
And then you pay people, Philadelphia is famous for this.
You pay people to vote 10, 12 times that day using dead people and people that moved out.
And they don't allow you to purge the voting list.
You go before a Democratic court, and the judge doesn't allow you to do that.
That can happen again in Pennsylvania unless we triple the number of volunteers that we have and we do very, very strong voter integrity.
So the second time I ran, I invested a million dollars in a voter integrity effort.
And my campaign inspectors were correction officers and firefighters because they're scared of correction officers and firefighters and they're tough guys and you're not going to screw around on them.
And when the bus would show up with the people voting the third and the fourth time, they'd see the two firefighters outside.
Some of them had their pitchforks with them, you know, and the bus would turn around.
People who ran it for me was the present president of the Yankees and a guy who's now in the United States Congress.
I got two really tough, brilliant people to run the effort for me.
And they say we still gave away about 20,000 votes, but we won by 60.
But they still cheated in that election.
It's impossible for Democrats in a big city not to cheat, even if they're going to win for sure or lose for sure.
So we partially solved the problem.
We partially didn't.
And what I'm telling you applies to any Republican, not just Trump, not just DeSantis.
This is something Trump's going to have to do if he gets the nomination.
It's something DeSantis is going to have to do if he gets the nomination.
And he's going to have to hope that because they did it last time and because it gets raised a lot, it's going to stop some of it.
It's going to scare a few people.
Maybe yes, maybe no.
But you've got to have an energized group of volunteers who go to the polls, stay at the polls, insist on seeing the identifications of every voter.
We didn't have that in 2020.
Partially a function of not realizing they were going to cheat that much or not accepting it, and partially a function of the pandemic.
Mr. Mayor, can I ask you a question?
This is probably the one question I wanted to ask you.
So this is a question on your legacy, if you don't mind.
Yeah, let's stay on this.
No, no, no.
I want to wrap this up.
Well, yeah, this is regarding this.
You're not going to go to like, what are the seven keys to success in writing a book?
If he has seven, I'll take it.
But I'm just going to go back and I'm going to go forward.
Here we go.
I'm going to go back to 2001.
Everyone knows what happened, 9-11.
You were America's mayor.
I was a senior in college.
We all remember everything.
You're staying on this topic.
Yes, I'm staying on this topic, sir.
If he doesn't, I'm throwing this pass.
You were America's mayor.
You were beloved beyond, okay?
It wasn't a Democratic thing, Republican thing.
20 years later, because everything you're saying now, whether you're right or wrong, election denialism, cheaters, crooks, all that, everything you're saying, some may say that your legacy has been tarnished.
That's what people say.
But a lot of it is because of, I'll catch that thing.
A lot may say it's because of the election denialism.
Is this a hill you're willing to die on?
Do you care that much about this that it may or may not ruin your legacy?
All I care about is if I can be honest with myself.
I don't give a goddamn what my legacy.
I know when I told you the election was stolen, I know it was stolen.
I don't just think it was stolen.
I investigated it.
I've got the documents.
I've got the proof in the seven key states.
I can tell you by how much he probably won each state.
And yeah, I'll die with it.
And why hasn't it been proven yet?
Guys, because of censorship.
Let me say that.
It's not been proven because nobody will allow you to prove it.
The courts punked out.
Probably John Roberts said, we're going to stay out of this and we're going to use technical excuses not to hear a single freaking witness.
Half the Republican Party ran away because you're a bunch of cowards and wouldn't stand up to the press that was beating the living daylights out of them.
And most people don't want to get disbarred like I was.
Most of the people don't want to be driven into bankruptcy, which they try to do.
And most people can't stand up when they're doing the right thing, but they get viciously attacked for it.
And they're cowards and they back down.
And I never cared about my, I don't really give a damn about my life.
Can I say something?
I know what I did.
Mayor, let me say something.
And I know what I'm doing.
And in a different world, in a different world, in a different world.
You want to throw the pen at every point?
I'm going to throw the pen at everybody at this point from this.
By the way, if the audience was Armenian, they would throw a choice.
They're Sanders.
But let me say this part.
Okay.
I got four kids.
So my kid comes and he loses and he says, the other team cheated.
Okay?
And I say, you're right.
They did cheat.
Okay.
As a parent, if I take that angle, they did cheat.
That kid is going to use that as an alibi for the rest of his life.
I'm sorry.
I have a hard time.
It's a totally different thing.
But Rudy, let me make my argument.
Listen to the game, not the same thing.
Let me make my argument to you.
I'm not the destruction of a Republic.
Let me make my argument to you and tear it apart.
Say whatever you want.
Let me tear it apart apart.
But let me just make my argument to you.
Let me make my argument to you.
What do you mean?
Of course, I can't remember.
Let me make my argument to you.
You're repeating.
You're repeating the propaganda I have heard a hundred times.
No, you got to stop this bullying.
These are not novel arguments.
Let me give you a perspective, Mr. Speaker.
Let's go see if you can give me a novel argument.
Let me give you a perspective.
So far, you just repeated the Democrat bullshit.
Let me give you a perspective.
By the way, that's totally fine.
I'm a big boy.
I can take it.
FYI, you lost.
You lost.
You ever seen the movie Tropic Thunder?
We lost.
We lost.
I don't know if you've seen it.
You don't look like a Tropic Thunder type, but don't worry about it.
So watch this.
Okay, football.
Sports.
So you're talking about you got barred.
Okay, you lost your license.
No, I didn't.
Suspend it.
Suspended.
Fine.
Suspended is what you got.
Which, by the way, a lot of, you know, there's a lot of different, that is a history of a lot of different people that lost their licenses.
Yours is use and abuse.
They took advantage of what they're doing, which is not cool what they did to you.
So I'm on that page, which what happened there.
But in sports, so who's the quarterback with the Baltimore Ravens?
What's the guy's name?
Oh, no, no, no.
Who's the guy from Arizona?
The guy from Arizona that came out.
What's the guy from Arizona?
Kyler Murray, right?
And he gets hurt.
He comes back.
RG3 says, don't come back.
If I was you, I would stay out.
He comes back.
He gets hurt.
He's out.
Boom.
They don't go to the playoffs.
Nothing's going to happen without that guy, okay?
RG3 comes back, even though he should have stayed out the season.
He comes back, career and probably cost him a couple hundred million dollars.
Okay, he was a great quarterback.
Okay.
Mayor, you being injured is hurting the camp because they needed a fighter like you.
So we lost a player that was a fighter that can be competing today in the marketplace.
So for me, what I'm saying is it's very easy for us to play this game while we're getting hurt and losing versus sitting there and figuring out a different kind of strategy to beat.
Because we can give all the motivational speeches and sound right and people can clap and it can sound very good and exciting and we can lose 2024 again.
Or we can take a different approach to say, look, guys, whether you believe it happened or not, I think it did, let's just say whether you believe it happened or not, fine, this is where I'm at.
This is my position.
However, we can't sit here and go back and say, Houston Astros cheated and they won.
But I think we are a little bit.
Houston Astros came back and even after cheating, they still won again.
But you're misdescribing what I said.
I have not said that should be our strategy to get elected.
I'm not stupid.
I said it is something that we have to affirm and be honest about and open about so we change it.
We can't buy into the Democrat bullshit, which is it didn't happen so they can do it again.
I don't think people are buying into that.
I don't think people are buying into that.
And the only way you can show that it's going to remain on the agenda is by standing up to it.
You don't have to run on it.
It would be ridiculous to run on it.
You should run on what.
Well, I think we need to stop talking about it.
Stop talking about it and running on it are two different things.
If you stop talking about it, you've accomplished what the Democrats want.
So you know what people want?
To censor you to restrict your free speech, to not allow you to say what you think is important.
You look like a guy that you like good memes.
You have a good meme game?
I don't even know what you're talking about.
I saw a meme the other day.
You know what I'm saying?
Can anybody tell them what a meme is?
What's a meme?
Meme is what?
It's like one of these pictures they post and then they, you know, it's a funny cartoon, but they post these memes.
Anyways, so I saw a meme the other day, and you know what it said?
I loved it.
It says, you should have drained the swamp when you had the chance to, and you didn't.
He didn't drain the swamp.
There was a part of the campaign that we voted for was to eliminate those games, and it didn't happen.
Now, you may say, well, they got in his way and they did this and they did that.
Fine, no problem.
We voted for Drain the Swamp, and those guys are still there.
And if you're going to go and run a new company and there's a bunch of schmucks running the company that are running the old model, fire them and replace them.
Well, who says he's not going to do that?
Why wouldn't he be the best person to do it?
Because he knows it better than anybody else knows that he's motivated to do it because he realizes what actually happened to America.
And to play the game of pretend is a terrible, terrible mistake.
Well, the other option.
And to play the game of having them dictate what you say and what you don't say eventually gets us where we are today.
A country where free speech is restricted more than in a lot of totalitarian governments.
That would be a terrible thing if we don't insist on maintaining what we know.
We shouldn't run on it.
We should run on how he can fix the economy or DeSantis can fix the economy or somebody else.
We agree.
How we can bring peace, how we can bring how we had a much more peaceful world when we had a Republican in office.
How, in fact, we had trade agreements that were much more favorable.
Kim Young-un wasn't flying missiles over Japan.
China was somewhat a lot more contained.
And Russia didn't take Ukraine while we had a Republican in the White House.
And we can go back to that.
That's what we should run on.
Nobody wants to run on the election with Stolen.
But if you ask me if it was, I'm going to tell you it was straight out.
The honest truth.
We don't do that, then we lose something that Trump did for us.
He made us value a candidate who can be honest with us, who can tell us the truth.
One thing about Trump was there was never a hidden agenda.
He was maybe too open.
But boy, we need that.
We don't need a political game player.
The last thing in the world this country needs is a political game player.
We're in too much trouble.
We've already become a socialist country.
We don't have to stop us from being a socialist country.
We don't have to prevent the change in our way of life.
It's happened.
We have to take it back.
We're not taking it back by playing, sorry, Patrick, marketing games.
We've got to do it for real.
And we need a real person as a candidate, not a creation of Madison Avenue.
Say that to any major organization who's been an incredible marketer, including 45, who is a master, master marketer, Dave.
Well, perhaps we should all support a guy who could become a transcendent Reagan-like candidate who's younger, who is an incredibly ultra-competent executive, who none of us can find.
Tom Newsome, you're saying Newsom.
Who none of us?
Seemingly, our worst flaw with him is that he had a slightly botched book campaign that got to number one on the New York Times.
Maybe we actually overwhelm the system by getting 10% more people that can get a lot of people.
Okay, can we transition into something a little bit more important, like getting you guys to be sponsored by Nike or Bud Light or some of the other things?
Can we put this out there, please?
I want to help you get sponsored by Nike.
There's a strategy on how, I don't know if you've been following the story.
I don't want to hear this.
No, no, it's actually, by the way, if you did it, how many guys stayed?
If you want to follow the strategy, he could be, the mayor could be sponsored by Nike.
Yes or no?
Before we show the story, some of you guys don't know what I'm talking about.
Let's put the story.
Listen, I'm going to give you a strategy.
You don't have to use it.
I'm just telling you, there is a playbook on how to do it.
There's this person.
I want to hear it.
Let's talk about it.
So Ronaldo.
Right now I would trans Woman and new Bud Light partner, Dylan Mulvaney, now paid by Nike to model sports bras, okay?
On top of that, by the way, by the way, not only sports bras, Bud Light.
Did you guys see the Bud Light video going viral and all this stuff?
Did you guys see him dancing with the whole, you know, the Nike sports bra stuff?
And then you got Kate Spade, you got Ultra Beauty, you got a crest toothpaste.
And according to Newsweek, which we may be wrong, but according to Newsweek, if you can pull this story up according to Newsweek, which this one, this is not Babylon B.
This is not Onion.
According to Newsweek, he's about to be sponsored by Tampax.
Yes.
And apparently, based on this Mulvaney guy, according to some of the articles you read about, which is kind of deeply concerning, he's not fully committed.
He's not a true believer because he still has a dangling, which kind of makes it a little bit complicated because he's not fully gone there.
Patrick, do you realize that every single day on my show, and my team is sitting right there, I have to live on air say the same thing.
Can you guys Google it?
Does she have a dick?
And the fact that I just said that in front of Rudy Giuliani.
Rudy didn't know what a leave was before this.
I lived in New York City during 9-11.
Like, this guy is a true hero, and I apologize for even doing that.
I don't know what a meme is, but I know what a dick is.
Thank you.
Can I just descend to this?
We thought you were going to lighten the mood a little bit there, Pat.
Pat, you realize this is where you were supposed to pull out a big machete from under the desk and say, which one are you doing?
I just think both of you.
Why do you say that on every show?
Because every news.
Every news story these days is about a former man now dressed as a woman, and we're always trying to figure out: have they gone the full way?
So, for example, Rachel Levine, who was a dude, Dick Levine, which is hilarious.
Rachel Levine was Dick Levine.
You know that?
Wow.
Yeah, his name was Dick.
His name was Dick.
Guys, correct me wrong.
He still has a dick.
Yeah.
He still has a dick.
Yeah.
But how do we know that?
How do we know?
How do we know the internet shows?
No, I'm just kidding.
Don't put the picture on.
But every day there is another one of these ridiculous stories where one of these guys dressing as a girl.
And then, so it always, to me, it's like if you're going to actually, you know, Caitlin Jenner went all the way, supposedly.
Caitlin Jenner, no Wang.
Really?
Yeah.
Wow.
That's all I have to say.
Good for her.
I don't know if you're going to be able to do that.
We're starting to feel pain.
Yeah.
So the fact that this keeps happening over and over.
By the way, you know what's crazy?
As much as obviously we're joking about this, there's a part of this that's funny and we're having a lot, you know, enjoying this part.
There's a part of it that parents are sitting there saying, what the hell are we doing?
Like, how the hell is this argument even creating momentum where it's being defended by the media?
And how dare you say such a thing about them?
Why shouldn't they have the rights and all this other stuff?
And you're, I saw a meme the other day.
Okay.
I know you're, again, going back to memes.
Can you just show him a meme so we can play?
Show me a dick.
Hey, you know what I want you to do?
Rob, do me a favor and go to PBD Podcast Twitter account.
You are so, we didn't know you were a comedian.
Mayor Giuliani today brought out the comedy side.
So go to PBD Podcast Twitter account, and I'm going to text this to you.
If you go on Twitter, go to PBD Podcast, I'll text the student, go find this wonderful meme.
It's not that one, keep going.
It's not that one, keep going.
It's the one that says, can you drive a car?
Can you do this?
It's a day ago.
If you can find it, I just texted it to you.
There you go.
Watch this one here.
Okay.
Can you drive a car?
No.
Can you pick your bedtime?
No.
Can you drink a beer?
No.
Can you vote?
No.
Can you cut off sex organs and take hormones?
Yes.
Oh, my God.
I mean, this is common sense stuff.
As much as we're having, you know, we're having fun with this Mulvaney guy.
I have a hard time saying his first name because my son is his name.
It's a wonderful name.
It's kind of confusing me a little bit.
So you hear him sitting down with Drew Barrymore, and she gets on her knees, which is kind of like a little weird situation there.
But parents are worried.
It's concerning, okay?
They should be.
Did you, for a guy like it, did you ever think we're going to get to a point like this where people who keep their dangling are going out there promoting about the fact that they're on the other side?
No, I didn't.
There was a candidate for governor of North Carolina, oh, about 10, 12 years ago.
So this goes way back, McCrory.
He's a great governor, 60% approval rating, running for re-election.
And the issue came up about bathrooms.
You know, the debate was started in North Carolina about what bathrooms to go into.
And he was and is a good friend of mine.
And I said, that's easy.
You just do it based on biology.
Well, he took that position.
He lost by 10% in North Carolina.
I mean, and that was the beginning of what the hell is going wrong?
What's going on?
What is no, I don't completely, I have to admit, I do not completely understand what is going on.
It seems to me it's obvious there's a man and a woman.
We can figure out who's a man and who's a woman and why we're going through all this.
I don't know if it's a mass psychosis or it's a deliberate plot to undermine us.
Maybe it's both.
You know what politician actually had the best answer on this?
It's Donald Trump before he was even a politician when he got asked about this because you're right, this happened in North Carolina, and then the NBA was going to pull out an all-star game and this whole thing.
And they asked Trump when he was still just celebrity apprentice Trump, they said, what do you think about these trans bathrooms?
He goes, I'm a builder.
I build hotels.
You tell me I can build one bathroom?
I'm going to save on construction.
So Dave Chappelle has an amazing joke on the LGBT...
Have you heard his thing on the closer?
It's like they're all on a car ride together and you got the G, the G's driving because that's the white guy.
It's a guy, the G.
The L's sitting shotgun, right?
And everyone loves the L's, but except for the G's, because they're kind of like, I wouldn't wear that, whatever.
Then you have the B's.
You follow me here, Rudy?
So far.
You got the B and the B's in the back, just basically like, I'll fuck anyone in this car.
I don't care.
Right?
And then you got the T, and the T is kind of like making the whole ride go way longer than it should have taken for the G's, the B's, the L's, because the T is not anything like a G or an L or a B.
It's completely different.
And there's all different parts going on different ways.
So as a G, you, you're not anything close to T.
Well, first off, I'm just using 20% of the alphabet right now.
I'm only gay starting at 10 p.m.
What time is it?
It's 9:30.
Rudy immediately checked his watch.
We'll see about that.
I did a gay wedding.
I mean, you know.
You lived with two gay guys, didn't you?
I did, I did, absolutely.
That's one more gay guy than anyway.
It's going to be conventional.
And they are, they are wonderful parents.
They're still married and they're wonderful parents.
But how do you do that?
No, no, no.
I signed the first domestic partnership bill in 1994.
I've always seen it as a question of human rights.
And I guess I'm to a large extent a libertarian.
Except I realize the need for laws because we have some really evil and dangerous people.
Let people live and let live.
If Mayer would have ran in 2016 on his policies that he had when he had ran for president, he's not a mayor.
He would be a president today, just so everybody knows.
The things you ran on 20 years ago, I may get the dates wrong, whatever the date was when you ran as president, everybody thought you were going to win.
Some of this stuff was 15 years ahead of your time.
You had some libertarian side.
America wasn't ready for it.
Absolutely.
Five years ago, you'd be a president in America if you would have had those policies.
Timing is the key in politics.
This is why I said you should have identified as 45 years ago.
But DeSantis needs to run now.
You're right.
I mean, I'd like to disagree with that because I am committed to Trump, but I agree with you.
There may not be another time.
There may not be.
You think, well, okay, he's a great governor.
He'll continue to be a great governor.
I imagine that's true.
I can't see why he would stop being a great governor if he doesn't get nominated.
But there may be somebody else that comes along.
That's even more impressive or the flavor of the day or the issues may change.
This is the time where, well, for a while he was number one.
Now he's number two.
If you're number one, two, or three, that's your time to run for president.
And we can think of a lot of people who missed their time.
I can think of one.
But me.
But no, I think of Nelson Rockefeller, who could have been president if he ran at just the right time.
I kind of think that Trump would never be president if he didn't run in 2016.
That was his time.
Because they had alienated people.
I mean, it's the people.
I went to New Palestine when the terrible thing happened there because I saw them as representative of our people.
The people that voted for Trump, the people that voted Republican in 2016, the people who have been not taken seriously, the people who have been rejected, the people who are called deplorable.
I actually saw little Petey Buddhajug.
Oh, man.
He actually showed up because I went there and because Trump went there.
And we watched him, my colleague Ted and I, we watched him, the mayor who asked me to come and the police chief, let him wait for 45 minutes outside and continued the conversation with me about the most irrelevant things.
I was there to advise them on how to deal with the crisis because they wanted to just screw him, you know, give him a hard time.
Well, when you went to see him outside, he put himself in a place that he didn't have to be near any of these people, these dirty people, these dirty, hardworking people who mostly are descendants of coal miners.
And they're not dressed properly and they're not.
And those are the people who've put Trump in office, the people, the rejected people.
So it may be that that isn't there right now, or it may be there.
But he ran at exactly the right time.
And I think DeSantis is going to run, and I think he probably feels this is it.
I mean.
Can we wrap up with one last topic here before we finish it off?
Some may take that as an endorsement for DeSantis.
That was a wonderful position you took right there, Mayor Giuliani.
It's not an endorsement.
It's a beautiful thing.
It's a realistic political analysis.
It's a beautiful thing right there.
But okay, so let's go through this.
So let me give some stats.
And this last part here, this is specifically directed to Mayor Eric Adams.
This is directed to London Breed, San Francisco mayor.
This is directed to Mayor Brandon Johnson, Chi-Town, Chicago.
We're going to give you some statistics, and there's a case study of a guy here who was able to clean up the streets of New York.
Let me read some of these studies.
Between 1993 and 2001, New York City experienced a 66% decline in murders, according to FBI.
During that time, you were there.
During the same period, there was a 72% decline in shootings.
New York City experienced a 56% decline in FBI Crime Index 93 to 2001, outpacing 16% decline in National Crime Index.
In addition to the decline in murders, New York saw a 45.7% decline in rape, 67% decline in robberies, 39.6% decline in aggravated assault, 68% decline in burglary, 43% decline in larceny, 73.3% decline in motor vehicle theft.
Again, this is according to FBI.
In 1993, there were 11,545 major crimes per week.
By 2001, that number dropped to 5,072.
Over a seven-year period, Mayor Giuliani added 12,000 police officers in New York City.
You took it up to 40,000.
You're looking at some of the stats today on what's going on.
Just yesterday or two days ago, the CEO of Cash App, who is in San Francisco, he's living in Miami.
He escaped San Francisco.
You were talking about earlier.
He lives in Miami.
He's in San Francisco.
He gets stabbed to death.
Everybody's coming out and saying, well, here's what we're going to be doing.
You saw San Francisco said the mayor, you know, we are prioritizing public safety in San Francisco after Cash App creators' fatal stabbing.
You know how the mayor breeded extremely sympathy to the family and friends of Cash App creator Bob Lee following his fatal stabbing, calling it a horrible tragedy.
Tech leaders, including Twitter co-founder Jack Dorsey and Elon Musk, offer condolences on social media with Musk calling for stronger action from a city to incarcerate repeat violence offenders.
Lee's friend Jake Shields revealed that Lee had just moved out of San Francisco to Miami because he felt the city was deteriorating.
While San Francisco violent crime rate is relatively low compared to other larger cities, again, this is an insider story.
This is an insider story.
While San Francisco is going through that, and then boom, the different numbers that they're going to have, you know, what's going on with San Francisco.
So if these guys are watching right now, if they're watching right now, how would you today, if you are the mayor of San Francisco, if you're the mayor of Chicago, you're the mayor of New York, how are you cleaning up the streets in those cities?
Well, I mean, it's a little bit of a strange question because their political philosophy, their political temperament is so totally inconsistent with running a safe city.
I mean, every one of their policies makes the city more dangerous.
And their allegiance is to the Democrat Party and its left-wing philosophy, not to the people.
I know Adams the best.
He worked for me for eight years as a policeman.
I don't remember an arrest that he made.
And he says the right things.
People voted for him in New York because they thought he was among the Democrats one who emphasized law and order.
He says all the right things.
We should change our bail laws.
Of course we should.
We shouldn't let people out.
Just yesterday, they let out a person.
They let out a man who killed his son.
They let him out on bail.
No bail.
They just let him out.
The guy's walking around the streets a day after he killed his son, or two days after he killed his son.
That's insane.
That isn't just arguable.
It's just insane.
It's very much a part of the national democrat approach to crime.
The leader of our state legislature said the other day, you're never going to reduce crime by incarcerating people.
That's actually the only way to reduce crime, particularly with career criminals.
So they would have to change their entire, first of all, they have to change their party affiliation.
And every time Adam says something, he doesn't go through with it because they throw him out of the Democrat Party if he did.
He backs off.
So this is every city that has heavy crime.
It's a Democrat mayor.
Very often, it's a Soros Diet.
Every city you mentioned is a Soros DA.
Put there to let criminals out for the purpose of creating chaos.
In fact, all of the DAs that let the rioters go in 2020, and they're now paying them money.
In New York, we've paid money to people that were arrested in 2020.
They all have Soros DAs as well.
And Soros is the biggest contributor to Antifa, the biggest contributor to Black Lives Matter, the biggest contributor to the Democratic Party, biggest contributor to Biden, and the biggest contributor to these DAs.
So it's almost in it.
I mean, I could be blue in the face in telling them how to reduce crime.
They're not going to do it.
They would have to resign and put a Republican there who hopefully would say, let me look at a way it was done before and repeat it.
So you would hire a lot more police.
We're down to 33,000 police officers.
That's not enough for New York City.
They don't prioritize police officers.
De Blasio defunded them by a billion dollars, and Adams has never put the money back.
A billion dollars taken out of the police department.
What do you think happens?
Not only that, even if he wanted to hire police officers, they're not going to be New York City police officers.
All our police officers escape if they don't go to Florida.
They go to Nassau County, Suffolk County, our suburban counties, that pay the police officers more and treat them with a lot more respect.
So you would have to have a mayor that created morale in the police department, that the police department trusted not to jeopardize their lives and their careers anytime there was a political controversy.
You would have to go back to deciding on how you enforce the law based on Comstat.
Comstat is a program that I invented with Bill Bratton.
It goes back to my days in the Justice Department when I handled FBI statistics, which measures crime and locates it in exactly the places where it's growing.
And you move your police based on statistics, based on real facts, not sentiments, political pressure.
So if all of a sudden you see three murders in a particular area, you start to move into that area, try to find out why, see if you can find a common cause.
You reward your police officers not just for making arrests, but for reducing crime.
And you penalize the commanders when crime goes up.
So change incentives.
That's one of the things.
Here's what I thought I did.
I changed policing.
The best policing up until the time I was mayor is based on how many arrests you make.
I reviewed an arrest as a failure.
Somebody's already been victimized.
Somebody's already been killed.
Somebody's already been robbed.
Somebody's already been raped.
Interesting.
The real goal is prevent it.
So by using the Comstat program, I could measure, when you became a commander of a precinct, how much crime you had.
Each one of the categories you're talking about.
And then how much you're reducing it or how much it's going up.
I promoted you if you reduced it.
I put you so far away from where you lived if it went up that you resigned.
I managed by rewarding success, but I define success as reducing crime.
Never have success.
It's very important, by the way.
So success to you was reducing crime, not increasing arrests.
Absolutely.
Increase arrests only for the purpose of reducing crime.
What's the second and so?
What's the second data you track as success?
So first one is how you reduce crime in your district or in your city.
What's the second one?
The second one is you look at the things that are long-term going to matter.
Like, if you show me an increase in shootings someplace, I can tell you that six months later you're going to see an increase in murder because it's starting to move toward violence.
Wow.
So work on the shootings.
If you start seeing a neighborhood that had no graffiti start to have graffiti, you know that that neighborhood is going to become overridden by gangs eventually.
They've actually started to move in already.
So go after the graffiti people because they're probably also the gang members.
One of the things that de Blasio did that helped to raise crime in New York, this will sound strange, is he stopped arresting the people who are fair beaters on the subway.
We arrested everybody who was a fair beater.
Never had been done before.
Turned out that 45% of the people we arrested were dangerous criminals who were wanted.
So we got them.
We also solved a serial murder that way because a guy who had never been arrested had killed two women.
He was on his way to probably killing 10 or 15.
He did a turnstile jump.
We arrested him.
We fingerprinted him.
We never would have fingerprinted him if we hadn't arrested him.
And then his fingerprint showed up on the purse of the third woman that he killed.
So we stopped him after three.
We have a bunch of those that easily could have been serial murders that used to afflict New York in the past.
You've got to look for the secondary characteristics that predict that you're going to have more crime.
The other way they describe that is the broken windows theory.
But when they say the broken windows theory, it sounds like something silly, like, you know, you enforce people who are spitting on the sidewalk.
No, you look at what would be minor crimes that are indicia of a neighborhood starting to turn to much more dangerous crime.
And you do enforcement of that and cut it out at an early stage.
And a lot of it is study and hard work and prediction and statistics.
I never would have been able to reduce crime the way I did 30 years earlier without the computer.
Because we never would have been able to analyze the statistics fast enough to turn them around and use them to act.
That's so weird because we have better predictive analytics technology today, better data, better at this.
100% better at it.
Instead, most of our politicians, particularly Democrats, engage in propaganda about crime.
Like, how about this cop got shot the other day?
Adams shows up and says, we've got to get the guns off the street.
We've got to enforce, we've got to have stronger gun control laws.
Now, Adams is a cop.
By nature, what is a criminal?
A criminal is a person whose behavior can't be controlled.
Because if his behavior could be controlled, he wouldn't have shot somebody.
So a criminal is not going to listen or obey the gun control laws.
Neither is a madman.
So gun control might be good or bad.
It has nothing to do with reducing crime because criminals don't respond to controls.
They're uncontrollable.
That's by nature.
And the more dangerous they are, the more uncontrollable they are.
So it's a fantasy world to think that gun control, which may be good to reduce suicides or accidental murders, has anything to do with crime.
You want to go debate it, debate it based on it's safer.
You should have some of these controls because of the accidental murders that take place.
But you're not going to, you can have all the gun control in the world, which they have in Chicago, which they have in New York, and you can have a massive number of murders.
Pat, if I could just add one other thing, because I researched for my last book this very question, and my answer, I basically wrote a chapter about you.
The first thing that the mayor did, and correct me if I'm wrong, I grew up in Long Island, so we had to come through the Midtown Tunnel to get into the city.
My grandparents lived in the city.
The first thing that he did, basically, we had all those guys that were standing outside the Midtown Tunnel, and they were washing your windows with dirty water.
And it set a tone for when you got into the city.
So the suburban people would come into the city.
The first thing that would happen, they were basically accosted by some version of homeless people or whatever it might be.
He immediately got rid of those people, then started cleaning up Times Square.
And then suddenly all the other people that lived in the other boroughs started coming in and realizing, oh, it's kind of clean here.
And then people, it's what's happening here in Florida.
You start modeling something good.
And then people, because people are waiting for a model all the time.
They don't just do it on their own, but you start getting rid of the people that are just annoying everybody and bothering everybody and making things dirty and uncomfortable.
And next thing you know, everyone else starts to quote Jordan Peterson standing up with their shoulders back, right?
And that actually is what happened.
And then we had 20 incredible years.
I was there for virtually, I was there for all of your mayorship.
Kelly carried it on and improved it.
Tom, your thoughts when you're hearing this, how are you processing what he just said right now?
Well, I have some firsthand experience with San Francisco.
A chapter in my career, you know, I lived in East Bay.
I took BART from Castro Valley to Armbarcadero and Montgomery Station.
There's two stations right there.
And I worked at 525 Market.
And everything's SOMA, South of Market.
You know, today you hear about all these issues.
And I've seen it.
So I've seen San Francisco before and after.
And I want to know, do you think, Rudy, that there's also going to be some faith in the voters?
The voters in San Francisco recalled the district attorney about a year ago.
Now, have they got a better district attorney?
We're about to find out because it's coming to a head.
You also have commercial space right now, occupancy and pricing of commercial real estate space is dropping in San Francisco.
And it's not COVID and it's not the recession.
It's that San Francisco now freaking sucks.
And nobody wants to put their business there and put their people there.
And now we've lost a leader from one of the pillars of San Francisco, which is the tech industry.
And so is there some faith that you can put in the voters?
Can the voters turn the tide?
They recalled the DA.
The mayor is not, has been tenuously tenuous popularity right now, the mayor, which is about to go sideways because a week ago, no, no, not even a week, it was four days, four days before the murder, the mayor punts.
Now, I think we all read about San Francisco that they've decriminalized drug use.
You can actually use needos.
You could be right there on the street and they will not arrest them.
Well, now the mayor has got such issues going on with families leaving, businesses leaving, commercial real estate vacancy, had all these things, kind of cries, uncle, and asked for federal dollars to help with the drug problem in San Francisco.
What do you mean drug problem in San Francisco?
You're handing out needles and it got worse.
What a shock.
I gave whiskey and car keys to my son and I wrecked the car.
I'm so surprised, right?
Why are you surprised?
And now you're crying for federal dollars.
This is true.
I'm not exaggerating this, saying it's we're overrun, the problem's overrun, and we have so many vacancies for law enforcement, we can't fill them.
Of course, because they don't want to go.
Why do you want to be, I'll be a California highway patrolman in Central State.
Why would I say, instead of doing that, I'm going to take a job in San Francisco where there's no bullets in my gun, right?
I'm just supposed to show it and scare people.
You sit there and you look at this.
So I look at it and I say, is there a moment where we the people can kind of stand up and demand change?
They've recalled the DA, but is there a tide?
Because you're talking about a smart person yourself with support from the mayor's office and from we the people, and you're able to implement the things you're talking about.
If it wasn't the case, you wouldn't have been there long.
If they said, oh, you know, this is too terrible.
This is bad.
You're being hard on youth, all those things in the BS that goes with that.
Do you think there's a tide that can turn in San Francisco where the citizenry, even though they are very liberal on social matters, look around at the crime and what's happened to their city.
They've recalled the DA.
Do you think there's a point where the people can say enough and can start voting in favor of being against the people that are getting support from Soros and things?
I hate to say it.
I don't know.
It was true 30 years ago.
When I got elected, some other people got elected.
People just were tired of the crime.
But you look at Chicago the other day.
That never should have happened in Chicago.
I don't know.
I don't know if the will is there or there's been such a change in the attitude.
I'm not talking about America now.
I'm talking about cities.
I mean, there was an article today or yesterday basically saying San Francisco has passed the turning point and it's gone.
It's a very fatalistic attitude.
I hate that.
I mean, I'm always an optimist.
So I would say, sure, there's a chance.
If you elect an independent person, a very strong person, and a person doesn't mind getting criticized and evaluates themselves on honest principles.
And there are people like that.
And occasionally you can vote for someone like that.
But they're not the usual person that runs for office.
You get that person, particularly a mayor, and a mayor in New York in particular, has great power, for good or bad.
More power in a way in your little domain than the president has to change things.
So yeah, I mean, if next time we elect the right person for mayor, you could turn around New York, I think.
I'm not sure the San Francisco is too far gone.
I hate to tell you, San Francisco doesn't need Harvey Dent.
It needs Batman.
That's the situation.
It may be too far gone.
Yeah, I don't know.
I think Chicago's too far gone.
I think they just indicated that.
By the way, I have the stats for the cities when you go through the cities with the biggest crime and you look at top 20.
I have it somewhere on here when we were going through it.
I think, what was it, 27 out of 30 top cities in America are ran by Democratic mayors.
So when you're going back and I asked the question from you and the first thing you said is, I don't know if the question is right because it's about politics.
You're making me think about the fact that it depends on where their policies lie for them to execute the right thing.
But here's one thing I would say for the person that's watching this, okay?
We had a person that were talking about, hey, my kids are going to the school.
You know, what do I do about it?
I said, listen, there's different levels of parenting.
There's those parents that are oblivious of what's going on in school.
They just don't give a shit.
They don't pay attention.
Like, ah, whatever.
Then there's those parents that they know what's going on.
They bitch and complain.
They're not happy about it, but they just talk.
They don't do anything.
Then the third level of people is the people that say, I know what's going on.
I care about it.
And I'm going to run for board because there's only a 5% turnout.
I'm going to go and do something about it.
Then the fourth step is: hey, I have tried.
I did try to do something.
Other parents were not for it.
I've decided to, you know, move to a different state.
Okay, then the other option is: I'm going to do homeschooling or I'm going to put them in private school if you can afford it, right?
There's certain things to it.
If somebody is watching this and you're saying, I wish my mayor in my city would do this, this is my suggestion to you.
This part of the podcast that we just had, we're going to put a clip to it, right?
With what mayor's suggestion was.
I would share this part with as many people in your city as possible, including with your mayor and the people in the office, and say, Hey, here's a case study of a guy in the last 50 years that was able to do it better than anybody else.
I don't want to leave my city.
I love my city.
Why don't we set aside the politics whether you like this man or not?
He did something in a city that cleaned up the streets.
You and I were having lunch at this restaurant over here in Angelos, and the owner was there and he came up.
I can't even tell you how the reaction was.
We're sitting there, you know, and all of a sudden he's like, Tom, you remember this?
He comes in and he says, Mayor Giuliani, I have to tell you, you are my hero.
I am Italian.
I grew up in the streets.
I remember how you cleaned up the streets.
We felt safer.
Kids, myself, everybody, you are my hero.
He's saying this to him while we're sitting having regular lunch together.
And a lot of other people feel that way as well.
So, my suggestion: whatever city you're in, San Francisco, LA, Baltimore, Chi-Town, whatever it is, share this part of the message, and maybe you can be the voice, the leader, to help that city get some good ideas there.
Again, how many guys love today's podcast, by the way?
Okay, for those of you guys that are watching out there, we wish you were here with us.
We got some complaints from some people saying, Patrick, it's as if you keep this as a secret.
We did not know how to buy tickets.
If you want to make sure you get tickets next time to be able to register for the next podcast, when we announce a live one, text the word podcast to 310-340-1132.
Text award podcast 310-340-1132 to be informed because when we announce these, the premier tickets sell out within the first seven minutes.
These guys don't even wait.
They just go, bam, gone.
And then the other ones kind of take a little bit longer to sell out, but the first one goes out fast.
We're going to put the link below to both the mayor's podcast on how to follow his show.
It'll be below.
If you liked what he had to say today, he does this every day.
You can watch him on a daily basis.
He's got a show.
The links will be below.
Rob, let's make sure we post that in the chat as well as the description.
As well as Dave Rubin, if you like what he had to say, he's got a big channel and he creates content regularly, and it's coming from a very good place.
Both of them, we're going to put the link below as well for you to go out there and listen to his podcast as well.
Gentlemen, Dave, Mayor, thank you so much for coming out.
This was a wonderful time.
Tom, thank you for your insight.
Adam, thank you for the insight on the cats.
We will never forget it.
I think it was an incredible marketing strategy.
To the folks here, stick around because we're going to do QA here.
Everybody else out there, if you enjoyed the show today, please subscribe to the channel.
Take care, everybody.
Bye-bye, bye-bye.
Bye-bye.
Okay.
This was awesome.
So, you need to use a restaurant.
Feel free to go and use a restaurant and come back.
