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PBD Podcast Episode 219. In this episode, Patrick Bet-David is joined by Kyle Kulinski and Adam Sosnick.
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Patrick Bet-David is the founder and CEO of Valuetainment Media. He is the author of the #1 Wall Street Journal bestseller Your Next Five Moves (Simon & Schuster) and a father of 2 boys and 2 girls. He currently resides in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.
0:00 - Start
15:20- Why Do people move to the US?
30:15 - Should Paris Hilton Inherit $2.2 billion?
51:13 - Why you should increase your market value
1:13:25 - Patrick Bet-David on government spending
1:29:04 - Trump vs DeSantis
I feel I'm so excited to take sweet victory I know this life meant for me Yeah, why would you bet on July when we got Bet David?
Value payment, giving values contagious.
This world of entrepreneurs, we get no value to hate it.
Ideally running, homie, look what I become.
I'm the one.
Get the purpose of this podcast and figure out what movie.
I mean, it's a big name that produced Alexander the Great.
I just think somebody else should do the Alexander movie.
I would not mind seeing.
Anyways, folks, you just kind of walked into this podcast.
We're talking about Alexander.
And we do have an Alexander tap of a guy for the progressive side today in the house.
Kyle Kulinski in the house.
Thank you.
Very happy to have you.
Everybody's been saying, Pat, why don't you get Kyle on?
You got to get Kyle on.
You guys got to talk about different issues.
I said, let's get him on.
And I'm glad you made it out, man.
Oh, my pleasure.
I'm very happy to be here in Miami.
Yeah, and it's good that you're turning it into a vacation.
Oh, yeah.
No, I wasn't going to escape the cold of the Northeast for like a day or two.
I wanted to really soak it in.
Yeah, well, I try to go the other way, Ron.
We just got back from Aspen yesterday, and I got to tell you guys what happened real quick.
So on the way back from Aspen, we're getting to the plane.
Well, no flights are leaving.
Okay, great.
Pilot, you know, my guy, Joe, says, hey, you got to go 90 minutes out.
I got 13 people with me, and you got to go to a city called Rifle.
I've never heard of Rifle.
So we go to Rifle to this airport, and we're at the airport.
We get to the plane.
Plane's not working.
Okay.
So we stayed last night at not the holiday inn, at the Comfort Inn.
The Rifle Inn.
Oh, man.
Rifle, Colorado.
We stayed at Rifle, Colorado yesterday at the Comfort Inn.
So what we did is this was appropriate.
For you, it's not appropriate.
I took kids out to watch Avatar because I wanted to see their reaction for the last 30 minutes of the movie, which was fancy.
I don't know if you've seen Avatar 2.
I've seen the original, not the second one.
I think it's really cool to watch if you got kids.
There's a message to the last 45 minutes that's about how kids become the leaders of the family.
It's a very emotional moment where I'm watching my kids to see how they react to it.
And Dylan, at the end, I'm like, so tell me what you think was that.
I got the chills.
Like, tell me why.
It's like, it's kind of weird.
It's a great, it's a great movie for family.
We watch Avatar.
We got on the plane.
We came out here.
I'm glad you were able to change your schedule because I know yesterday was the day for us to do this podcast.
Yeah.
Our guys contacted you.
Go ahead.
I relate to your struggles at the airport because we, and we're one of the lucky ones, but we had a two-hour delay on the tarmac.
Got it.
Yeah.
When we took off, we took off from DC and, oh man, it was crazy.
The captain would chime in every 30 minutes or so and say, yeah, we just spoke to air traffic control and they're going to touch base again with us in about 45 minutes and we'll see where we're at.
Same.
I know.
And there's little kids on the airplane and stuff and you're looking at them and you're getting Nancy and then I'm getting Nancy and it's like, we're not even there yet.
Flight's, you know, two hours and 45 minutes or whatever.
It's crazy because when we went to the movies, you know, kids were making noise, screaming, and people behind me are so pissed off.
And 15 years ago, I'm the guy that's like, how are we responsible?
Why would you bring kids to the movies?
People are trying to watch a movie.
I don't have the moral authority anymore.
I don't, because it's me apologizing.
Listen, I'm so sorry.
Hey, guys, come on, keep it down.
Anyways.
Regarding flights, 66% of Southwest Airlines flights canceled.
At what point do you recognize the weather?
We've all seen this movie before.
Blizzard coming in.
Flights are going to be delayed as you're on your way to the airport, right?
Right.
Like, at what point do you just call an audible and just say, honey, you know, we're not going to go see grandma this week or we're not going to go see, like, we'll deal with this next week.
I just feel like you're driving headfirst into the storm with these flights and you're like, fuck it, we're going for it.
See, but with Southwest, it just wasn't the weather.
There are other things too.
There are other things.
There are a very, very antiquated system in terms of how they make their schedule.
I was just reading about this the other day.
And I mean, yeah, they're just getting away with crimes here.
You know, they need to crack down on them and let them know you guys can't do this.
There's got to be some penalty for this.
Because a lot of, I mean, I'm sure you guys have read this too.
There are situations where they book flights and there is no pilot at all.
And then people show up and they're like, oh, we don't even have a plane for you.
That is very annoying.
And they overbook flights.
That's right.
They overbook flights as well.
I mean, this stuff can't be allowed.
Rob, what do you got here?
More than 90% of Wednesday's U.S. flight cancellations were south.
Holy moly.
So it's not like it is all across the board.
It was singular to Southwest.
According to flight tracking website Fight Aware, Southwest canceled more than 2,500 flights, the next highest SkyWest with 70.
This is not a good look for Southwest.
Southwest typically gets it right.
Southwest warned that it would continue canceling flights until it could get operations back on track.
The company CEO said that this has been the biggest disruption he's seen in his career.
The Biden administration is investigating it.
Okay.
They're not going to do anything.
They're not going to do anything.
I guarantee you.
But who's the head of transportation right now?
Isn't that Pete Budige?
Pete Butige.
You don't think he'll do anything about it?
You think he's more executive platinum with American Airlines than the Southwest?
Well, what he's doing is he's just biding time before he runs for president again.
That's all he's doing.
Did you like him when he ran?
Were you something?
Did I like Pete?
No, absolutely not.
So you were not a fan of his at all?
Well, he was a hero for a lot of people, though.
Oh, not.
Tell me why, though.
Tell me why.
Well, I mean, look, the problem with Pete is that he's a young face on a representative of the old guard in the Democratic Party.
So he represents the Hillary Clinton wing, the Joe Biden wing, and obviously somebody like me, I'm more from the Bernie Sanders wing of the party.
So we look at him and we see politics as usual.
We see nothing changing.
We see the status quo.
But what part?
What part do you not like about the Hillary Clinton, about the Joe Biden wing?
What part do you not like?
So a number of things.
First of all, do you put Obama in that camp as well?
Obama, yes.
I would say he's like 75% in that camp.
I mean, I could list some things that he did that I like, but mostly he's in that camp.
I mean, look, their economic policy is what I would call neoliberal corporatism, which is, again, a continuation of the status quo.
Foreign policy-wise, he's hawkish, which, again, falls right in line with Hillary Clinton.
She brought us Libya.
She helped get us the Iraq war.
Joe Biden, of course, helped get us the Iraq war as well.
So when I look at him, I just see no change.
I see a continuation of the status quo.
To you, by the way, what was most frustrating to me, I like a good fight, right?
I mean, I don't know about you, but I like a good fight.
Like, I like seeing yesterday, Luca, 60 points, 21 rebounds, 10 assists, first player ever to do a true.
I don't know if you follow basketball or not.
Insane statistic to do something like that.
And the guy's interviewed, did you know you scored 60 points?
Did I?
I scored 60?
I'm tired.
I mean, just something like you've never seen before.
I like a good fight.
There was overtime.
I like Joe Burrow against, you know, Tom Brady or even the World Cup.
Sick, a good fight.
Yeah, that was good.
It was so annoying when the announcement came about.
Well, you know, Elizabeth Warren, Pete Buttigieg, everybody else, Bernie Sanders is dropping out and they're all supporting Joe Biden.
I wanted to see, you have no clue how bad I wanted to see Trump against Bernie.
Oh, that would have been insane.
I actually think they have some things that they agree on, which would have been interesting because I don't think they both like the swamp.
I think both of them are against the swamp.
And it would also, this is the second time they did it.
Hillary did that.
And now Biden did it, which is quite frustrating to see that happening.
When you see that two times and that's your guy, how do you feel about it?
How do I feel about Bernie getting stabbed in the back?
Ousted, yeah.
Yeah, no, I mean, look, it just tells you that there are very powerful forces behind the scenes at the top of the Democratic Party that would pull out all the stops in order to prevent somebody who would break the mold from taking power.
Bernie, I think, is more in the mold of an FDR.
An FDR, very famously, took on powerful interests.
And what happened is in the 1990s, Bill Clinton came in and he was this New Deal Democrat, is what they call it, or excuse me, not New Deal Democrat, New Democrat, which just means they had the DLC, Democratic Leadership Council.
They decided instead of us taking union money, teacher money, we're also going to start taking the same corporate money that the Republicans are taking.
And so they decided, hey, look, I'm not on the left.
I'm not on the right.
I'm kind of in the middle and I'm above the fray and I'm an enlightened centrist.
And what they did is made it so the Democratic Party was no longer a party of working people.
And Bernie Sanders was trying to bring it back to a party of the working people.
And they would not let that happen because they have all the money.
Bernie Sanders, you know, he famously, his campaign was built on small dollar donations.
And that can get you a long way.
But when there's more money on the other side and they're way more organized, and to your point, that is the organization that you just discussed.
When you had, you know, what was it, Mayor Pete, Betto O'Rourke, you had all these people drop out on the exact same day right before a big election and endorse Joe Biden.
It's so weird.
It's not like Joe was doing great.
It's not like Joe was doing great.
He wasn't.
He got destroyed in Iowa.
He got destroyed in New Hampshire.
And look, if they didn't do that, Bernie Sanders would have won.
So that was the biggest fear.
The biggest fear was what if Bernie takes over and some of these ideas, some of these guys get some momentum.
Correct.
Yeah.
And also, I think Bernie, if Bernie was president, I think he would have put Obama's record to shame.
And so Obama also has a vested interest in.
In what way?
In what way?
Obama has a vested interest in not allowing Bernie Sanders to become president because if Bernie gets in there and Bernie does, let's say, universal health care.
Well, that puts Obamacare to shame because Obamacare is this terrible half measure, which keeps the for-profit health insurance companies in control.
And so, yeah, I mean, he was screwed.
He was.
Carl, for the audience that there's a no-you real quick, I mean, obviously, you've done very well.
You have a YouTube channel that's done well.
I think you got a billion views on YouTube.
You were with Jank from 13 to 21.
And then you got your own thing that you're doing.
And you've been around.
You just told us who you're engaged.
Is it public?
Yeah, yeah, everybody knows Crystal Ball.
Crystal Ball from the Hills.
She's a rock star.
You know, her show, everybody was following her and her apartment.
Her and sager.
Yeah, they were doing a great job.
But so that's your background.
That's what you believe in.
So if you were to kind of say, well, these are the issues that I support.
This is who I am.
What would those things be?
Yeah, I mean, it's very simple.
I would just describe it as social democracy.
So anybody can go to the Wikipedia page for social democracy and read through it.
And that's basically what my beliefs are.
So I believe in meritocracy.
You might be surprised to hear that, right?
But I want the floor to be a reasonable floor.
So I want people to have the basics met.
And then from that, then you achieve the most that you can.
So in other words, if we're running a 100-yard dash, I want everybody starting at the zero-yard line.
I don't want somebody at the negative 40-yard line and then Mitt Romney's son at the 85-yard line.
I want to have a fair race.
I want a real meritocracy.
So that means I want everybody to have health care.
I want everybody to have education.
I want everybody to have the option potentially of going to, say, trade school.
I want a living wage for people.
So if they work a full-time job, they make enough money to survive.
It's very basic stuff that I'm talking about here.
I'm talking about what I think the best countries in the world at this point have already achieved.
If you look at the Scandinavian countries, a lot of those countries, they provide the basics for people, but then they also rank high in, and I think you guys will appreciate this, economic freedom.
So a lot of these countries score higher on like free market principles than our country does.
So they cut all the red tape that you can cut when it comes to business, but they also have the basics met for everybody.
That's all I want.
I just want everybody to, you know, get out what you put in because certainly in the system we have right now, I think people feel like they're getting a raw deal because they are.
What do you think was common?
And Adam, I know you wanted to ask a question.
So what do you think?
What commonalities did you see between Trump and Bernie?
Like when you looked at the two, what did you say?
Okay, obviously they don't agree here.
They don't agree here.
But there is a lot of similarity here.
What were some similarities between the two?
So that's a great question.
I would say the similarities are an affectation and posture.
So Trump came in in 2016 as an anti-establishment firebrand on the right.
And I would say that a lot of his rhetoric back then was very populist.
He said in a 60 minutes interview, yo, I'm going to give everybody health care.
And they're like, who's going to pay for it?
He goes, yeah, the government's going to pay for it.
This is not something you'd hear Mitt Romney or any other Republican say.
He also said, hey, I'm self-financing my campaign.
Now, the details of that are not exactly correct, but still the posture was there.
Very famously in a debate, he pointed at Jeb Bush and everybody else on stage and said, you hear those people clapping the audience?
That's his donors.
I don't have any donors in the audience.
And this is stuff that people like.
That's a powerful thing.
It was sick when he called out the Iraq war to Jeb Bush's face in the middle of a Republican debate in a military state.
I think it was North Carolina.
And the audience clapped.
And it was at that moment, I think it was actually Ben Shapiro who made this point.
It was 100% correct.
He said on Twitter, oh, this thing's over.
And this was early in the race.
If you can get a military crowd in North Carolina full of Republicans to cheat against the Iraq war, it's over.
And so I think that the anti-establishment firebrand is what Trump brought to the table.
And Bernie brought the same thing on the left.
So I think the 2016 iteration of Trump was populist right.
And Bernie, I think, has always been kind of populist left.
And they tapped into a real anger.
Now, of course, I think their solutions are very different.
And I don't agree with Trump's solution.
I think he governed more or less as kind of a standard establishment Republican in many ways.
But in terms of how he presented to the country, it was very clear that he was taking this populist right anti-establishment lane.
This term populist always kind of bewilders me.
It's like populism.
So I kind of want to break down what it actually means to be populist.
You're basically saying Trump was a populist right in many fashions, for sure.
Biden populist left.
By definition, what populists just, you're popular.
You're saying things that the majority of people want to hear.
But obviously, Bernie, what he stands for, is wildly different than what Trump stands for.
So I guess my question is, how can they both be populists?
What's the overlap right there?
I'm sure a lot of people who supported Trump would have actually voted for Bernie because they kind of want to just burn down the establishment.
Break down kind of what you think populism is today.
Well, I would say it's just hatred of the establishment.
And you saw that among Trump voters.
You saw that among Bernie voters.
The literal definition would be something more along the lines of, you know, doing the will of the people, which is true.
But I think that the connecting tissue is that like anger at the system.
Whereas you look at somebody like Hillary Clinton and it was like support of the system, prop up the system, explain why I think the system is good.
You look at somebody like Joe Biden, same thing.
You look at somebody like Mitt Romney on the right or, you know, the other Jeb Bush.
These people are, hey, we got a good thing going on here.
The institutions are kind of working, so let's not fiddle with it too much.
That's their argument.
Whereas the Trumps and the Bernie's are like, this fucking thing is broken, and that's why you guys are angry.
And so I'm going to help you change that.
So regarding the system, this thing's broken, this thing's broken.
I think we've seen over the last couple of years since COVID, like the overreach of the quote-unquote system.
And Trump famously made the swamp so famous, right?
But one could argue maybe the system is kind of what got us here.
These world alliances, trade agreements, NATO.
You know, you can kind of argue the pros and cons of this.
But for America, the system hasn't been all bad, has it?
I mean, it's, you don't want to tear everything down, tear down democracy, everything we've worked for, because there's some bad things going on.
No doubt there's something we can improve.
So this whole like anti-system thing.
Yeah.
What's the validity with that?
So there's a vibrant debate that's always been going on on the left, and it's reform versus revolution.
And the real hardcore types will tell you, no, I believe in revolution.
I'm an opponent of revolution, literal revolution, for the simple reason that you don't know what the fuck's going to come after that.
And you don't know how violent it's going to be.
There could be dead bodies in the streets.
Is that something we really want?
So what I believe in is basically the strongest kind of reform possible.
You know, I believe in kind of a page one rewrite of how we do it to try to get it right and make it better.
So I hope that answers your question.
So let me ask this.
Sure.
So sell me to dream on your ideas.
I'm a 22-year-old.
Okay.
I just got out of college.
Oh, not even that.
I'm in college.
I'm taking an economics class and to have a speaker, one hour coming in, and you're selling me on the idea of socialism, okay?
To say, okay, I mean, social, democracy, it's different.
It's very different.
Yeah, I'd like to know the difference between the two, but sell me to dream on, hey, Patrick, you're 22 years old.
I'm a regular guy.
You know, my parents divorced.
I don't have a lot of money.
My dad's a cashier at a 99 cent store.
I came from Iran.
I lived at a refugee camp.
I'm a regular guy.
There's nothing about me that I'm coming with family, money, any of this stuff.
Sell me the dream.
Hey, Patrick, you ought to one day, dot, dot, dot, sell me that dream.
What does that look like?
Well, I mean, I think you should do whatever it is that you want to do.
And I think you should be able to have a shot to do that fairly.
So in other words, I don't think you should go bankrupt if you get medical bills.
I don't think you should, you know, have student loan debt that's so extensive that you can't ever pay it back.
And by the way, you also can't file for bankruptcy on it because that's the way that they wrote the laws.
I don't think people should be loaded up to the brim with credit card debt.
Credit card debt is at a record high right now.
I just read a stat the other day: 63% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck.
So really, to sell you on the dream, I would honestly just point at some of the Scandinavian countries and say, look, they haven't eliminated capitalism.
What they've done is they've harnessed the good parts of capitalism and mix it in with the good parts of socialism so that they have an intelligent hybrid where somebody who's 22 years old, just getting out of college, can have a chance to do whatever they want and make it.
Okay, so I rebuttal because let's just say my there's a classmate sitting there and his dad's an executive at IBM, hypothetically.
And he's doing $600,000 a year and he lives in a nice community.
He sends out, Kyle, you know, my dad's told me if these Scandinavian countries are so great, how come you're not moving there?
And why is it that 40 million immigrants choose to come to America and why don't they choose to go to some of these countries?
What do you tell that 22-year-old smart alley?
Well, why I'm not going there is because it's fucking cold.
I'm in Miami and I'm enjoying being in Miami right now.
So if it was warm, you would go, is what you're saying?
No, because I love my country.
I love America.
Whenever I criticize America, it's coming from a place of like, I want to try to improve it and make it better.
I don't think everything about this country is bad or wrong, but I think that there are things we can do to improve it.
And, you know, there's a very famous quote from one of the founding fathers: dissent is the highest form of patriotism.
In the same way that if, you know, God forbid, you know, we saw one of our kids hide a dumpster smoking crack behind an Arby's, we'd be like, you know what?
We're going to try to get them some help.
We're going to try to get you in rehab.
We're going to work on this.
We're going to fix this.
It's that same mindset that you apply to the country.
It's, you know, when you look at some of the things going on in this country, you say, this can't continue.
I mean, we have 45,000 Americans that die every year because they don't have access to basic health care.
That's something we can fix.
And it's, and, you know, there's a lot of work put into convincing people that it's just a law of nature and there's nothing we can do about it.
No, there's a lot we can do about it.
Okay, so let's stay on that.
Let's stay on that.
Hang on one second.
I want to stay on this.
So I want to go to the 22-year-old and selling the dream to this kid.
So going back to it, you know, I don't know who we had here on the podcast, but somebody recommends a restaurant to you.
How do you and I judge a restaurant at noon?
Like, let's say, hey, you know what?
I've never been to Rifle before.
Let's go there to eat for lunch.
How do you and I judge a great restaurant?
How the food tastes, how the atmosphere is.
And then, okay, so the atmosphere meaning what?
If the place is packed at noon and there's 100 people there and 20 people waiting to get inside, they're doing something right.
Okay.
If you and I go to a restaurant at night And you're like, there's a restaurant in LA, Rafi's place.
I go there all the time.
If you go there on Mother's Day, it's a three-hour wait, okay?
Every day it's busy.
It doesn't matter when you go out, right?
If anybody says anything bad about the restaurant, like to say, well, you know, my thing is I want to make this restaurant better because I think this restaurant can do if they put the chairs this way and it's not fair to the fact that the employees and the busboys and da-da-da-da-da.
And I'm like, yeah, dude, but.
But it's a good restaurant.
But it's always, it's not a good restaurant because you and I have an opinion that's a good restaurant.
It's a good restaurant because it's always flipping packed, right?
So if America was, and I know this is a random analogy I'm using, but if America was a restaurant, America is so packed and it's got a waiting list that if it's so bad with the existing ideas that it has, why do so many people still want to come here and not anywhere else?
Well, there's a very simple answer to that question, which is if you look at the places that a lot of these people are fleeing, they've been absolutely obliterated.
They've been destroyed.
So a lot of these countries have been ravaged by the drug war, whether it's, you know, I think in Honduras, I read a fact a couple years ago.
In Honduras, there's more violence than there was in Iraq at the peak of the Iraq war.
So it's a pretty crazy place.
I'm going to try to flee that.
I don't know about you.
I'm trying to flee that.
I'm going to try to take care of my kids.
You know, Mexico, similar situation.
You have these drug cartels.
Effectively, with help from our policy, we've made these narco-states, you know, south of us.
And so you have these, you know, gangster states that are run by drug cartels because what we've done is we've, of course, we did the war on drugs.
We made it illegal.
What happens when you make it illegal is it gets pushed underground to the black market.
That's how you make the drug cartels more powerful.
The same thing happened here with Prohibition when it came to the mafia.
We made the mafia way more powerful because we decided to make alcohol illegal.
That's when they got their most power and wealth.
And so a similar thing happened with the drug war.
What I would do is, number one, stop intervening in those countries militarily.
And that's a long conversation we could have about the history of the U.S. intervening in that area.
And number two, let's end the drug war.
So in other words, just kind of take our boot off the neck of a lot of these countries and make it so that people want to stay there.
Because honestly, I really believe this.
I think a lot of the people who are coming here, if they felt like their home country was safe and clean and okay, then they wouldn't want to come here.
I think in many cases, it's a desperation type move.
But it's not just Honduras or Mexico.
It's like, okay, you're half Italian and you're half Polish.
Is it Polish or Italy?
Yeah, so my mom's mom is from Italy, basically.
And on my dad's side, it's more of a, my last name, Kalinsky, is a Polish last name, but I think it's a little more confusing than that.
You got a little bit of everything.
Yeah, I got a little bit of everything.
I mean, you take your Italian, right?
You take Jews.
You take anything else you take.
If America is so bad that some people sell it as being so bad, why do people keep coming here?
What is so like, okay, when we were in Iran, we had options.
People were going to Spain.
Some were going to Australia.
Some were going to this.
Only because they couldn't make it to America.
But everybody's number one on the list was to come to America.
You know what I'm saying?
It wasn't like they wanted to go anywhere else.
Again, going back, that is my biggest argument where if America is so bad, if capitalism is so bad and abusive, why do so many people who are actually leaving an abusive environment are willing to come to a place that offers capitalism where a person who has not got the last name of Mitt Romney, his last name is Bet David.
My parents haven't given me a penny.
Last time I got an allowance, I was 14 years old.
I'm not an allowance.
I don't even know what allowance is.
To be honest, I'm not even being sarcastic.
I don't know what an allowance is, right?
And so I come up here.
I'm like, dude, I don't give a shit if you give me allowance.
I'm just happy to be here and I'm going to bring my Middle Eastern work ethic.
And I'm banking on something's good going to happen to me.
I don't have the money to go to school.
I don't have the grades to go to school.
Maybe I'm going to go in the military.
Can I act together, be away from some of these guys that are doing drugs?
Because a lot of my friends were, you know, ecstasy, you know, pot.
They were selling.
They were done like, I'm just got to get away from this.
I go into the military.
And then I come out.
I'm like, okay, I'm going to learn how to.
I was a bodybuilder.
I'm going to learn how to sell.
This is my way out.
So, again, for me, it goes back to the same thing.
If socialism or social democracy is so amazing, why don't people go to those countries first before they come here?
Well, so I would say, number one, there actually, there is a refugee crisis in a lot of those countries.
There are people kind of pouring into those countries.
But number two, I think we're talking a little bit past each other because I wouldn't say America's bad.
Of course, I wouldn't.
I'm here.
I love this country, right?
The question is, I think it's just the wrong conversation to have.
You're not a capitalism guy.
You're not a social democracy.
Well, social democracy harnesses the best aspects of capitalism.
So there is an element.
So maybe unpack the difference.
So, you know, there's socialism, there's democratic socialism, and there's social democracy.
Social democracy is a hybrid of capitalism and socialism, where basically you take the best aspects of capitalism, the best aspects of socialism, and you have this mixed system, which in theory would yield the best results.
And the reason why I believe in that is because I think there's a tremendous amount of empirical evidence to those ends.
So, for example, they do this study every couple of years, this Commonwealth Fund study, where they look into the healthcare systems of basically a lot of the developed countries, 11 of the developed countries.
And when they do that, we always rank the U.S. ranks 11th out of 11.
So, we're doing worst on that front.
So, now, when it comes to the issue of capitalism, look, I mean, I can make the argument for you here.
When you look at, for example, the cars that came out of the Soviet Union, they were abysmal.
They were, you know, they were made by one government agency.
There was no competition.
So, you didn't get a better product at a lower price.
And that's what I'm trying to avoid, which is why I believe in something like social democracy, because you can still have, particularly when it comes to consumer goods, I think it's good to have competition.
I think it's good to try to get the best price with the best product and compete.
In fact, I believe in, and I'm curious if you would agree with this, I think we really need to start doing antitrust action again.
I think we should do anti-monopoly stuff again because when a business becomes a monopoly, what do you get?
Higher prices, worse product.
And so, you need to break them up, just like Teddy Roosevelt did, to get it to the point where you have more competition and you can harness the best aspects of capitalism.
So, when you talk about that, so I believe in that, while at the same time, I also believe in taking care of the basics.
So, in other words, they have like sectoral bargaining in a lot of the Scandinavian countries.
That means you set wages.
The union negotiates with management and you set wages kind of across an entire industry.
I think that's a good idea because it helps working people out more.
I believe in, like I said, universal healthcare, universal education, or trade school.
You should have your choice.
And I think they do that in Germany.
They give you an option.
You want to go to trade school or you want to go to college.
I just hate this notion that in this country, some people come out of college and they're $80,000 in debt and they're like, well, what the fuck do I do now?
And I can't even pay this back.
And then they got to go take a job where they're way overqualified to even take that job.
I think that's fucked up.
I just think there shouldn't be such a thing as medical debt or school debt.
And I don't think these ideas are all that radical.
I think most people would agree with this, even people who would consider themselves capitalists.
So let's go through the school debt.
Let's go through the school debt.
So who caused that?
Like, meaning, how did we get here?
Because 40 years ago, college wasn't that expensive.
You know, if you look at the numbers of 40 years ago versus today, I think inflation, CPI is 220% in the last 40 years since 1970 or 1980.
I think it's 1970.
And then cost of college education has gone up 1,200%.
CPI, 220%, inflation, 1,200%.
How do we get to a point where college has become a business?
It's no longer like what it once was started for.
Yeah, well, college was free or nearly free in California, and then Ronald Reagan came in and took that away.
So it really is a matter of priorities.
I don't, I think this is something that honestly should be fully nationalized.
I think we should have a fully nationalized education system, trade school system.
I think this is one of those areas where we've kind of experimented with the free market and the results have been disastrous in the same way that I think for-profit health insurance companies are basically just a legalized mafia that's in between you and your doctor where they take their cut and they price gouge you.
That's not every industry that would fall into that category.
I think there are many industries where capitalism and competition works out for the better for people.
This is just not one of those industries and I think the evidence bears that out.
So, okay, so nationalized college.
So I guess the question goes back to the following.
If I got a billion dollars and you have a choice between giving a billion dollars to free enterprise, okay, let's give a billion dollars to Elon.
Let's give a billion dollars to Musk.
I'm sorry, to Bezos.
Let's give a billion dollars to whoever that's in the free market.
Take any of the top 200 guys that made it from zero to there.
Okay.
Give a billion dollars to them versus giving a billion dollars to the U.S. government and say, here, go see what you can do with a billion dollars.
Who do you trust will do more with that billion dollars?
Well, it depends on the topic, right?
So I would give the money to the government when it comes to pharmaceuticals because a lot of people don't know this, but for the past two decades, there hasn't been a single drug that hasn't been developed with government grant money.
So basically, the government steps in, gives money to universities and says, hey, we need this new drug, which does X, Y, or Z.
And then they create it.
And then you have the pharmaceutical companies swoop in, buy up the patent rights, and then sell it back to everybody at a profit, even though they didn't fund the research and development.
So my answer would be it's a complicated question, and it depends on the, you know, it depends what we're talking about.
There are plenty of areas where I'd say, yeah, give that money to an entrepreneur.
Give me an idea.
Be more specific.
Give me an idea.
Like, I'm actually curious.
I'm actually really, you're a smart guy.
You're a very well-read guy.
You have strong opinions.
And this is your world.
I'm actually curious.
So if I gave a billion dollars to public versus, you know, a private, in what areas do you think?
So one was pharmaceutical fair.
What else would you think they would do good versus they would do bad?
Like it's better to put it on a free enterprise.
Well, the other, I actually just gave the example before, I think, with like cars.
The government should have no business in cars.
Yeah, of course.
No business in, you know, I don't want the government building like furniture or some shit.
That's something that's squarely for the private sector.
Tech, I think, is a little more complicated because a lot of the products that we use today that we kind of take for granted, like stuff like these phones, a lot of that was originally developed with funding from NASA.
So in some ways, the government actually does science and technology very well.
But to your point, yeah, there's plenty of, you know, entrepreneurs and private investors who would probably do it just as well, if not better, on some topics.
Yeah, that's the part that concerns me.
You know, I'm always, I think everything is incentive-based, right?
I agree.
I agree with that.
It's motive-based, incentive-based.
And I think it's everything, parenting, relationship, when two dates and they're sitting there saying, well, what is the incentive of me working my ass off for you?
What's the incentive of me having kids and having my body go through the mess it's going to go through for you?
We may not publicly say it, but we're privately thinking about it as we're going through this process, right?
So you said something else earlier with Mitt Romney.
I want everybody to start at the same level when they get started, right?
Versus it's not fair that Mitt Romney's kid, or Mitt Romney's a bad example.
We can use anybody's kids.
Paris Hilton.
Paris Hilton.
Exactly.
That's a great example.
That's the better example, actually.
You know, it's not fair.
Who is she to all of a sudden, hey, I'm doing a documentary.
People want to watch me.
Look how cool I am, et cetera, et cetera.
Okay.
So what should it be?
So let's just say I am the Hilton family and we got $2.5 billion of money.
How much of that should end up going to Paris?
Well, that's a good question.
I think that needs to be debated by the people and determined by the people.
But if you're asking my personal opinion.
Sure, I want to know your opinion.
Yeah, my personal opinion.
I think I wouldn't go as far as some of the revolutionaries to say like she should literally start with nothing and inherit nothing.
I think that's far too extreme.
But I wouldn't lose a wink of sleep if she went from having $2.2 billion to, let's say, having $50 million.
I think Paris would just be a business.
29%.
And honestly, I think if you, this exact example, I think is a good example where a lot of people would see where I'm coming from, whereas there's others where it might be a little more.
Give your argument.
I got to follow up today.
No, I mean, because people, okay, because the way we think of the economy, we think of it, some people do, I should be clear, as like, it's a very, it's a merit-based thing.
It's a meritocracy.
I don't buy that at all.
I think your human value versus your market value are totally separate things.
And we judge everything based on market value.
So somebody like Paris Hilton, you know, what has she contributed to the world?
She's contributed nothing.
And we're going to feel bad if she inherits $50 million.
And that's just because people will look at it on paper and say, well, her dad had $2.2 billion or whatever the fuck.
And it's like, I think she's going to be okay with $50 million.
I think the people that I'm concerned about are the people who are busting their ass and getting absolutely nowhere.
People who work two or three full-time jobs and they don't make enough money to survive.
And I think one of the best groups that you can tax in a society is rich dead people to give everybody else a chance.
They do tax rich, dead people.
It's called the estate tax.
True, but it's very, it's like 0.001%.
It's a very, very tiny number.
I think it kicks in.
You can fact-check me on this.
I think it kicks in over $5 million or $11 million.
$20 million is the number one.
No, now it's $20 million.
It's been that.
Well, it goes back and forth between different administrations.
Bush pumped it up.
But it's very high.
Yeah, but still, you know what?
The tax, when you said 0.1%, that's not what they're paying in tax.
No, no.
Oh, I know that.
No, no, I'm saying it'll be a prize to the top.
What percentage of people are worth 20 million?
But do you know what the estate tax actual amount is?
Do you know the number?
50, 70.
Exactly.
So if you're worth $50 million, there's a 20% threshold.
So that's tax exempt.
And now you're paying that 30 additional, 30 million additional.
You have to pay 50% to the government, the death tax.
Number one, you've already been taxed prior to receiving that money.
So it's a double taxation, which we can go on for days on how that works.
So you already paid the income tax, ordinary income tax, or whether it's capital gains, what have you.
And now, speaking of dead people, now you need to pay an additional 50% upon death.
But would you say Paris Hilton earned it?
That's my question.
But that's not, I don't, Paris Hilton, she came up with the word that's hot.
That went viral.
Good for her.
Awesome.
But should the, regardless, Paris Hilton is the perfect poster child for someone who has just lucked out and got the money.
Correct.
When I say we stay on this story, this is a good thing.
And that's fine.
But should the Hilton family that created industries, hotels, jobs, you know, brands, everything, are you saying that they should be taxed at 99%?
Forget about Paris or Nikki or whatever, brother or sister, who cares?
The only reason we know their name is because she's famous and she's kind of, you know, had the ability to leverage her name to become famous.
And kudos for her for that.
But you're saying that the family should be taxed because they've done so well.
In this instance, I'm specifically talking about Paris and how much money I think she could get.
And clearly, I'm pulling this number out of my ass because, you know, ask me to come up with a number off the spot for it.
Because I don't know.
I actually don't know how much money her family had.
I don't know how much money she had.
I think the audience knows that we're just having a conversation.
Yeah, no, no, I understand that.
Yeah.
So, but, but I think my point is the fact that she's inheriting $50 million when her only contribution to society is that she's part of the lucky sperm club.
Like, I don't feel bad for that.
And I don't think she's a victim.
I don't think she's oppressed.
I think if Paris Hilton got $50 million, she wouldn't lose a wink of sleep.
And we could actually, and this is the more important point, take the money that we're taxing and under a system that I'm in control of, if I was God Emperor King, right?
What I would do is I would take that money and put it towards things that actually help people.
Now, how much would that move the needle though?
Let me come to a point of agreement with you, though.
I would agree with you if you say, hey, let's do this tax on Paris right now.
I would say, well, I need to see where that money's actually going to go.
What are we going to allocate that money to?
Because if you say I'm going to take that money and I'm going to turn around and use it to bomb Afghanistan into smithereens, and I say, you know what?
We're right.
We probably shouldn't do that plan because I don't want that money going to bomb poor innocent kids.
But if you tell me we're going to take that money and put it towards whatever, fill in the blank, a UBI program, healthcare, then I'd say, no, that makes sense.
So then the challenge with that becomes you're going back to ESG.
It's a form of ESG to control where my money goes to.
And somebody may say, who the hell are you to decide where my money should go to?
But this is a different follow-up question I got for you.
The follow-up question I got for you is the following.
You have three kids.
Yes.
You can three kids.
Stepfather.
Are you planning on having more kids yourself?
We don't know.
Okay.
Let's just say you do or you don't.
We have three kids.
Okay.
What percentage of what you know are you willing to share with your kids?
What percentage of my knowledge?
Yeah, your knowledge, your life experience.
I'd share it all with them if I could.
That's unfair that we should tax it.
Knowledge is not the same as well.
But it is, though.
I would say that.
Let me explain to you why it is.
I mean, are you kidding me?
Like, if I was a kid and I was every night I come home and I'm having a every night I come home and I'm having dinner with you and you're asking me all these tough questions and we're getting into it.
You know what you're doing to my brain?
I mean, are you kidding me?
My brain is getting sharper just by being your kid because I have to be sharp to be your kid.
You're going to challenge me.
You're going to push back.
You're going to say, why do you think this?
What about this?
And have you done it?
Do you know the story about this?
Versus another person that is raised by a simple father that doesn't have your kind of knowledge.
That kid's like, yeah, we never talked about that kind of stuff.
We just talked about basic stuff.
So to me, if I have the edge of a father like you, I think that is also unfair to say, well, you can pass down the wisdom and the knowledge that you have, which is way more because you're more well-read than the average father.
We should tax some of that knowledge and only 20% of it goes to your kids or 5% of it goes to your kids because two kids comparing a parent that is not as knowledgeable as you versus another one that is at 18 years old.
We're not having a fresh start.
Your kids got an edge over my kid because your kid has got a little bit more challenging conversations at night than others do.
You know, like the Kennedys families, their tradition was at night they would sit down and have debates and they would have conversations.
I think that is a very, very big edge.
So, but I think you ought to be able to pass down anything you want to pass down to your kids, even if it's all the knowledge and the wisdom that you have.
So just out of curiosity, let's say, take me out of the equation.
Let's just use an example of somebody who's probably closer to this.
But let's say Elon Musk becomes a trillionaire.
When Elon Musk dies, should he be able to pass a trillion dollars to his kids?
Well, he won't because he'll pay the estate tax.
No, but I'm asking you in your ideal system.
Because I told you in my ideal system it would be worth it.
So let's say of that trillion, what do his kids get?
But let's just say the whole thing.
Let's say he's worth $3 trillion, which is very likely for him to be worth $3 trillion.
And the reason why I'm using $3,500 is still going to be a trillion dollars going to the kids, right?
A trillion and a half going to the kids.
Yeah, I think, yes, because a couple different reasons.
All of it?
Let me explain to you why it is.
I'm willing to listen, of course.
Because to me, so you ever been to the Hearst Castle or you've been to what is that one?
Hearst Castle in California.
Yeah, what is the J. Paul Getty Museum?
I don't know if you've been to the J. Paul Getty Museum in L.A.
It's really cool.
If you ever go to L.A., it's off to 4 or 5-3, but it's a really cool place to go to.
Okay, this guy had five kids.
I don't know the exact numbers, but he left his kids only a million dollars apiece, okay?
And he took the rest of the money and he put it in an account.
And the interest on that account gave the world a free museum.
So when you go there, you don't pay for it.
It's a free museum.
And by the way, it's a sick place on a sick location where you go up and you takes you up.
The only thing you pay for is parking for your car.
You don't pay anything else is when you go there.
Okay.
Get the pictures, get the whole nine free.
That was part of his cause.
That's what he wanted to do.
He only gave his kids a million dollars.
Now, you know, the other day we did a course on generational wealth.
Vanderbilts, they gave their money to their kids.
You know that Vanderbilt's wealth only lasted two generations.
Like when Anderson Cooper's mother sat down with them and said, Hey, Anderson Cooper, I know we're Vanderbilt, but you're not a trust fund baby.
There's no money to be given to you.
You got to figure out how to make your own money.
What did Anderson Cooper do?
Made $200 million of his own money.
He went to work.
He went to work, but he's bad at his job, by the way.
I'm just throwing that out there.
But you know what?
You know, he went and made his money.
And he probably used a little bit of the last name in the connections and all that.
But then some of the families, the money's been kept for six, seven generations.
Medici, you can look at some of these other ones.
Love them or hate them.
They've kept the money in their family, whether it's Rothschilds, Koch brothers, these are some of the most hated people in the world because the money's been passed down.
And the general feeling of, dude, I got started and I had nothing.
You're already rich just because your last name is XYZ.
I think it's the parents' decision to do what they want to do with the money.
Unfortunately, most of the parents don't make the right decision on how they give the money to the kids.
Nowadays, there's a lot of different estates.
There's a company called Ronald Blue that helps you set up a state planning.
And it's so funny to have a meeting with your kids and they'll say, listen, you guys are the Kalinsky family.
Great job.
Your family has an estate.
For you to participate in the estate, you have to do the following.
If you don't, you don't get any of it.
If you do, it goes, you get this much by 30, this much by 35, that much by 40, this much by 45, this much by 50.
The most responsible one, if you qualify, will run the companies.
If you're not and you're doing stupid things, you won't be running the companies, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
I think the parents who screw up with the money, that kid is not going to keep the money anyways.
They're going to spend the hell out of the money.
It's not hard to spend $300 million.
If a kid is a dumb kid, they'll spend the money like this.
But if the parents have done proper state planning, that kid has to keep working and doing it right to participate in a portion of that money.
There's a way to put in to say you have to give this much of your money away every year.
You have to give that much away.
You have to do this.
You have to do that.
So there is a lot of this one right here.
This is why I'm kind of believing I'm giving these guys an endorsement.
These guys do actually a very good job with their business.
But there's a lot of companies like this to do that.
So for me, to you, yes, I would say it's the parents' decision to do whatever they want to do.
All right.
So, but let's go back to the original example of Elon because I have what I think is a very difficult question for you.
So you said, let's argue hypothetically, he's worth $3 trillion.
You know, in my world, I think a significant amount of that would be taxed, and his kids would be fine.
They'd get millions, but I don't want to pass $3 trillion to them.
And look, it's a scale, right?
Some people would revolutionaries would go as far as to say, like, tax the whole shebang.
And then people on the other side would say, yeah, no, don't, don't tax it at all.
But what if I told you, what if there was a program?
We're going to tax that $3 trillion.
Let's just make up some numbers here.
Let's say a trillion of the $3 trillion is taken by the government.
But let's say every dollar of that trillion dollars goes to a program which helps eliminate homeless veterans in America.
Would you say, yeah, that's a program I could get behind?
Does he choose to do that?
No, it wouldn't.
It would be government.
I'm not a force guy.
I'm a choice guy.
That's the problem.
So there's no, so what tax?
Are you okay with any taxes?
No, I'm okay.
I'm okay with some taxes.
Which one?
Curious.
Like what percentage or?
Well, yeah, what percentage?
Well, we don't need to get into percentages, but what kind of tax is it like sales tax, income tax?
What taxes do you think are okay?
If I had it my way, I would like a flat tax.
If I had it my way, I prefer a flat tax where everybody's being taxed the same exact way.
So it's an income tax, but it's a flat rate.
Yeah, but by the way, this is for me to disagree with a Ronald Reagan who likes the progressive idea.
A lot of conservatives are progressive.
I'm more flat tax.
I'm more, you know, allowing.
For example, Steve Forbes.
Yeah, I think a flat tax model is not a good idea.
What would you do?
Like 15%?
15 points is good.
Yeah, because the issue with a flat tax, in theory, I agree with you that in theory, it sounds, you know, it's appealing.
But the problem with that is effectively it's a regressive tax, which means it hits the poor more.
Because right now, there's about 50% of the country that doesn't make enough money to pay any federal taxes.
You would make zero.
Actually, disagree because if there is a flat tax, a lot of the billionaires that are not paying right now would have to pay because it's flat tax.
So that's true.
But on the other end, you'd have these people, 50% of the country is basically paying no federal taxes.
They'd have to pay 15% of their income.
They can't afford to do that.
There should be a threshold.
So let me make a lot of homework.
I'll give you the idea here on this part.
This is the one side of the argument with taxes that I haven't shared with you.
So you remember when Andrew Yang came out with the UBI and he said, well, this is what Milton Friedman said, and that.
I'm just doing what Milton Friedman proposed.
No, Milton Friedman came out with the negative income tax.
Which you have to work to earn it.
And then up to this point, we would help you out with the 50%, but you got to also contribute to society.
So subsidize the lower end.
Absolutely.
I actually, to me, I'm earned the right to vote, earn the right to, everything to me is earned the right.
Go earn the right to be able to do X, Y, Z. You contribute to society in whatever way you want to contribute to society.
You get a louder mic.
You don't contribute to society.
You shouldn't be able to have a louder mic.
If I'm one of your kids, you got four kids, let's just say, and they all decide to live in your house.
They're all above 18.
Like, Dad, I want to live with you.
I love you so much.
I want to live with you.
If one of the three kids, one of the four kids isn't paying rent, and say it's the second oldest one, should he have amount of the same amount of, say, as the youngest one that's paying rent to you on a monthly basis?
No.
The youngest one is saying, Dad, I'll pay $1,000 a month because I got a job.
The second oldest one's like, nah, I just want to chill out.
I don't want to pay anything.
And he parties his ass off or he doesn't want to get to work.
Go apply for a job.
Nobody wants to hire me.
You haven't applied for something for six months.
What do you mean nobody wants to hire you?
I have a very big problem with that person having a voice in that house saying what to do.
You haven't earned the right to have a voice.
So the issue with like earning the right to vote is that if you look at the old school Jim Crow South, they had this thing like you have to do a poll test to show that you're a good citizen, that you understand the country before you can vote.
And that was just like a stealth way to try to take away the vote from poor people and from minorities.
So, I mean, look, we live in a country.
There's going to be some percentage of the country.
They're just fucking idiots.
But that doesn't mean you could, you know, take away their basic rights.
So I think that, you know, everybody, as long as they're over a certain age, I think they deserve the right to vote.
If that's the standard, if that's the standard that we set, then yes, you're right.
Some people will be fucking idiots if you're going to say that's the standard.
But if the standard is to set and say, hey, look, I'm not asking you to be a millionaire.
I'm not asking you to be a billionaire.
I'm not asking you to go be a CEO.
What I am asking for is go contribute to society.
I don't care what it is.
If you contribute to society, I'm all in.
I'm not going to judge you if you're making $48,000 a year.
I'm not going to judge you if you're making $700,000 a year.
What I will respect is the fact that you are contributing to society.
Yesterday we're staying at the Comfort Inn, and this one lady, we start talking to her.
So, you know, hey, she asked us, how was Christmas?
Great.
We had a great Christmas.
We're all downstairs in the lobby.
I'm trying to do the Zoom.
And we're having a regular breakfast at Comfort Inn.
You already know what the breakfast is going to look like.
It's not a crazy breakfast.
This one girl, I can tell you the tattoos she had on her neck, on her hand.
She's cleaning up everywhere like you wouldn't believe.
And she asked, How was you?
How was this?
Oh my God, it was great.
Well, my boyfriend and I try to go to Christmas together, but we couldn't because we had an issue.
So we have to spend time together.
We didn't go to my parents' house.
And then, hey, do you have a straw?
She goes upstairs, grabs a straw of her mom's, and she says, I washed it everything.
I know it's not a used straw, but I cleaned it for you.
Do you want to use this for your kid?
Because, you know, our baby only, and my nanny's like very sensitive with stuff.
She's like, no, I'm not going to use that straw.
And rather than giving an attitude, she says, no problem.
I'll be back.
The girl gets in the car, goes to her place, brings two straws that are covered with the, you know, the whole thing around it.
And she says, seriously, where'd you get that from?
Oh, I went home and got it for you.
You're kidding me.
No.
Do you know how much respect I got for that person that's working at that comfort in?
Absolutely.
You know what I did to her?
I gave her a tip.
She said, No, we can't accept tips.
I said, Well, I'm going to leave this money here.
Don't take it if you don't want to.
This money is staying here.
So you can either leave it here or someone's going to take it.
So, well, that's the case.
I'll take the money.
I said, You've earned the right.
I value service.
I have the same amount of respect for that girl to give me that kind of service and the guy that pulls up in a Lamborghini who's making 20 million a year because you're contributing to society.
When you say there's going to be a lot of messed up people in America, I have a problem making that be okay rather than challenging them to say, Go contribute, even if it's this much.
For that woman, let's say you were somebody else and you're kind of an asshole and she gives amazing service and then they don't tip at all.
What would you say about her?
Shouldn't she get a raise?
Shouldn't she be paid more upfront?
Because I have a problem with the minimum, you know, the exception to the minimum wage rules where it's like, well, we have this minimum wage, but then if you work in this industry or that industry, you actually make less than the minimum wage and then you have to earn it in tips.
Well, I think in many instances, wage service bullshits.
Yeah, you can literally work full-time and then not make enough money to survive.
I don't think that should be a thing.
I think if you're, and to your point, I think that if you're, if you're running a respectable business, like you need to earn the right to be in business, and that means you need to pay your people if they're working full-time enough to get by.
But if you don't, somebody else will.
So that's the great thing about capitalism.
Crack down on the people who are cheating the system, but who are fraudulent?
I don't think, but I don't think they survive, Kyle.
I don't think.
Oh, many of them do.
No, they don't.
They don't survive.
You don't think there are any companies that pay less than a living wage?
They do, but they can't keep good people, though.
They can't keep good people.
Kyle, listen, how long, if, if you're in a have you ever been in a relationship where a person didn't value you?
Oh, absolutely.
What'd you do?
Eventually, we left it.
Okay.
Have you ever been the asshole to her?
I'm sure I have.
I have too.
And what did she do?
She left you and I.
Sure, sure.
But the point is, people eventually leave assholes.
Okay.
Like, this isn't like, you know, where we're living in the Middle East and you have, you know, it's a sweatshop in China.
No, this, this is America.
Yeah.
In America, you have choices, you have options.
So even if the guy doesn't pay well, you leave.
If they don't leave, here's what's the worst thing that happens.
Can you pull up the story with what McDonald's just did, the first full-on automated?
I don't know if you saw this or not.
That's shown what it's doing.
They're going to go automate it and they're going to say.
But here's the thing.
I think they're going to do that anyway.
I think we're moving towards the world.
I lose well anyway.
I lose well.
So then we need to find a way to ameliorate when it goes to when the bottom floor falls out from underneath everybody who's already struggling and it gets even worse.
We need to find a way to ameliorate that.
We're going to be dealing with real civil unrest, the likes of which we haven't seen in our lifetime.
See, see, see, for me, on the first question, by the way, when I said people are going to leave and find another job, here's for me, okay?
I think the message that Bernie has, just so you know, I trust Bernie a hundred times more than I trust Biden.
Yeah, because you think he's authentic.
Because I believe him.
Right, you believe him.
He's a true believer.
So I sit down.
I say, you know what?
I respect you on what you're saying.
I can sit there and listen to a person and say, I respect the fact that you fully believe in what you're talking about.
I don't see Bernie as a manipulator.
I see Bernie that maybe, hey, you know what?
Let's pay minimum wage should be this much.
And then he was paying one of his interns 12 bucks and he came out.
He's like, shit, we screwed up.
I didn't know about it.
Okay.
None of us is walking on water.
My standard isn't walking on water.
I'm not going to sit there and say, well, look at him.
We should tax the millionaires.
Now it's taxing the billionaires because he's now a millionaire.
Fine.
Totally get it.
So the marker's moving a little bit more.
It's always taxed the people that are a little bit richer than me.
That's a little bit of the contradiction that comes with the taxes.
But going back to this part, this is my challenge.
Here's my challenge.
My challenge becomes, Kyle.
In our house, the currency is reading books, pages.
So if you read, you're able to have leverage to ask me for things.
Okay, if you're one of my kids.
The moment you turn six years old, you have to read 20 pages a day.
You read 20 pages a day, you can ask for things.
You read 20 pages a day.
You get iPad every weekend for one hour.
Okay.
And you're able to watch TV and movies on the weekend.
Okay.
You read 20 pages a day.
You're able to ask XYZ every quarter.
Okay.
You read 20.
The currency is reading.
So we're having this game.
We're playing Scrabble.
And my kids are able to come up with all these different words because these kids read.
Okay.
We're playing this Jeopardy type of a game.
Questions.
Did you know this?
All of a sudden, my kid answers something like, What?
I never knew that.
How did you learn about that?
Well, because I read XYZ.
He's read like 500 who HQ books by 10 years old.
I think I come to you versus I go to him.
And both of you guys are my uncle and I'm his son.
Okay, hypothetically.
So I go to Adam and I say, Adam, I got to tell you, man, I'm so sick of my dad, Rob.
It's just, I'm so sick of it.
He wants me to do this.
He wants me to do that.
He wants me to eat this.
He wants me to train like this.
He wants me to read this book.
I'm so freaking tired of my dad.
Adam says the following.
He says, Your dad's been annoying for his entire life.
He's my brother.
I've known him.
He's annoying.
Just be patient.
When you're 18, get the hell away from him as quickly as possible.
Okay.
You shouldn't have to work that hard.
That's not fair.
You're just a kid.
Why is he pushing you so hard?
That's not what he should be doing.
A lot of people disagree with your dad, but unfortunately, there's nothing we can do about it right now.
Okay.
That's one uncle.
Now, I go to his other brother, it's you.
I say, Uncle Kyle, my dad is this.
My dad is that.
He's so annoying.
And you say, just be lucky that's your dad, okay?
Because he's raising a leader.
One day you're going to do this.
One day you're going to do that.
One day you're going to do this.
I would be very grateful that you have the dad that you have.
There's two philosophies in America right now.
One is feeling sorry for you constantly.
The other one is telling you, step up and lead and do something about it.
I like this more because it's keeping less people dependent on a system.
This is keeping more people dependent on the system.
This mindset increases taxes.
This mindset decreases taxes.
What are your thoughts on that?
So, first of all, let me just be clear.
I've never met a tax cut for the working class that I didn't love.
I love cutting taxes on working class people.
So I'm not talking, I'd give them even more money.
So what I'm talking about is more on the top shift.
I know what I'm talking about.
I'm talking about contributing.
No, I understand that.
But let me just address the point because I think there's an important counter argument, which is I don't think a system can justify somebody working full-time and then they don't get paid enough money to even survive.
I think that system has failed to prove itself as being the best system.
To your point, in fact, I almost agree with your point maybe more than you do because I want to reward the hard work.
And my point is, I feel like the hard work is not being rewarded right now because I think like, I think like basically 95% of the country is trying their hardest and in many instances, just treading water in the same place and not getting it.
I don't know if it's 95%, but I think majority are.
I don't think it's 95%.
So we have broad agreement on that.
Yes.
Yeah.
No, I do.
But here's the part.
So when you're talking about, you know, if a person's working a full-time job and they're not able to pay the bills, I don't think that's fair.
Okay.
Fine.
No, no, you're saying that.
No, no, no.
I don't know.
No, I'm not agreeing.
Oh, look, we've made it.
I'm not agreeing.
But this is what I would say.
You know what I would say?
Here's what I would say to them.
Sure.
Okay.
Here's what I would say to them.
There was a time my market value was $3.75 an hour.
And they probably overpaid, you know, when they were paying me $3.75 an hour because I was not a good employee.
Okay.
There was a time my market value was six bucks an hour.
Okay.
When I worked at Burger King, I was $4.75 an hour.
Okay.
When I worked at Bally Total Fitness, it was $7.20 an hour.
That's what they paid me.
That was the market value for me because the military paid me pennies on a dollar because the military, you're working 100 hours a week.
So they're not paying you a lot of money.
You make 800 bucks a month.
You're broke.
So when I'm sitting there at Bally's and I'm making seven bucks an hour, okay, and I'm broke and I can't do anything, you know what I would do on my break?
I always had a book I read.
So I would sit, they would make fun of me.
I would sit there and I'm reading a book.
I'm a 1.8 GPA guy, okay?
I'm not a guy that's a reading guy.
I'm a guy that started, first book I ever finished in my life, covered a cover, I was 21 years old.
First book I ever finished, I was 21 years old.
So I'm sitting there and on my break, this guy named Jose, who was my boss, he would come and make fun of me.
He'd say, Patrick, what are you doing?
You believe in this dream type of stuff of being a millionaire.
Do you realize I make $80,000 a year?
I drive a nice BMW.
I got a great life.
Do you think these books are going to change your life?
And I'm like, listen, man, I have no desire to make $80,000 because that's a tough life for me.
I saw what my mom and dad did.
I don't want to do what you're doing.
You're clubbing five nights a week.
You're on your third marriage.
I just don't want that life.
And I told him straight up.
He's like, what?
It's like, I don't want your life.
It's that simple.
I just don't want your life.
And I think there's a lot of people that don't want that life.
But rather than saying, I think it's unfair that these people are making only this much and they can barely pay their bills.
My question to them is, what are you doing to increase your market value?
If you increase your, for example, you're using an iPhone, right?
Why don't you use a BlackBerry?
Why don't you use an old Nextel?
Why don't you use a Nokia?
Why do you use a Blackberry?
Why do you use an iPhone?
It's pretty arbitrary.
I just, whatever phone fell in my life.
I don't think that's the case, though.
I don't think that's the case.
And also those things don't even, they're not really sold anymore anyway.
Some of them are.
Some of the shitty phones are still around.
But the point is the following.
You need that phone because you need to check your creative studios.
You need to check YouTube.
You need to get back on Twitter.
You're a personality.
People want to see what you have to say.
So that phone has made the best argument to you as a market value.
That's why you're using that phone, not some of the older phones.
I think the same way Apple has made the argument to you to use their phone is the same way a lot of people need to sit there and say, well, maybe my market value is only $42,000 here.
See, I don't disagree with you, though.
That's the thing.
I think we're talking past each other because if your argument is, if I boil it down to its simplest form, if your argument is, look, try your best.
Don't stop trying.
Learn.
Keep reading.
Keep expanding your horizons.
Don't take no for an answer.
Keep grinding.
If that's your message, we have total agreement.
Because I see nothing wrong with that at all.
In fact, I would also, look, I like to dabble every now and then as well into the, you know, listening to various self-help stuff, listening to a motivational rant.
Sometimes it gets me fired up.
Sometimes I listen.
I'm like, let's fucking go.
Let's do this thing.
So we don't disagree at all.
I think the only area of disagreement we have is that even if we had a society where literally 100% of people did what you're recommending there, the problem is that the system itself does not reward that inherently.
So we could still have 10 million people living in abject poverty and be working poor.
So they're still trying, but they still just get a bad roll of the dice and they don't get far enough.
That's the thing that I'm focused on in terms of the system and how to fix it.
In terms of the individual, you and I have total agreement because of course I would give people, I would give the people in my life personally and, you know, to To my audience, I'd give them the exact same advice you just gave, which is, and by the way, how do you think I made it on YouTube in the first place?
Well, you think I'm just better than everybody?
My personality is just like, oh, that guy is so dynamic.
Work your ass off.
He's going to make it.
Yeah, I kept showing up.
I kept showing up.
I never stopped.
And for the first year and a half or two years, I had nobody fucking watching me.
I had nobody watching me.
There was probably less than 20 people with their eyeballs on me for my show when I was doing a two or three hour show every single day.
So, yeah, I think we agree more than more than we recognize.
I just think that message, we collectively need to give that message more because I think what you've done, okay, let me ask you, Kyle.
If a thousand people out there want to do what Kyle's doing, okay, and let's just say out of these thousand people, their interest is not politics.
One guy's interest is basketball, but very good, like follows everything to basketball.
One is movies, and it's a great movie critic, right?
One is food recipes, one is, you know, writing, one is math, whatever it is, right?
Everybody has something to offer to society.
Do you think if they apply themselves and work the way you have and stay disciplined the way you have, you think they could also eventually make it?
I think a certain percentage of them would.
100%.
But if I'm guessing, maybe 15%.
Only 15% would make it if they did what you.
Well, yeah.
Well, it's very highly.
What do you say, like four hundred people?
I said a thousand people.
Okay, a thousand people.
Yeah, I think, look, the harsh truth of the world is a lot of people.
How many videos have you uploaded?
How many videos have you uploaded?
Tens of thousands.
Bro, you're saying like, you're saying like what you've done is easy.
All I'm saying to you is if anybody goes out there, how much material do you read to stay on top?
I'm ten less from when I wake up to when I go.
Okay, so if I do what you do in my space of specialty, I'm a Disney guy.
I'm a business guy.
I'm a sports guy.
I'm an art guy.
I'm a scam guy.
Like I study all the scams because there's great YouTube channels that do.
I'm a guy that does what they do.
But if I study the way you study and research and I put 10,000 videos on YouTube, don't you think I'm eventually going to make it in my specialty?
It's not a guarantee.
And that's the sad reality.
I think that's.
Do you disagree with that?
Do you disagree with that?
But let me say what I mean.
Look, okay, so it's very hard to debate this from your perspective.
Here's, okay, do you work out?
You're a good looking guy.
I don't know.
I did for quite a while.
Now, I do the Trump workout regimen because I play golf.
Trump workout.
Okay, so let me ask you this.
Let me ask you this.
We got a thousand people.
We're going to play this game in a different way.
We got a thousand people.
If we have a thousand people who agreed, okay, to stop eating bread, stop eating sugar, okay?
And they got one sheet day a month, not even a week, they got one sheet day a month.
You can eat whatever you want per month.
But for 29 days, you're straight up clean.
They did cardio three times a week, 30 minutes, and they went to the gym and they did weights for 45 minutes, four times a week.
If a thousand people did it, they're all losing weight.
They're all losing weight.
Every single one of them is losing weight.
What I'm trying to say is if people followed your methodology of researching, reading, working 10,000, busting their ass when no one's watching them, they're eventually going to win because that's how formulas work.
I understand that.
I guess the core of our disagreement, though, is how much can be attributed to nurture/slash environment versus nature.
And I think the core of our disagreement here is, especially when it comes to this particular field of YouTube, we all know people.
Let's keep it real.
They're people who have effectively anti-charisma.
Sometimes there are some people who talk and you go, they have that X factor.
I listen to them and I'm like, I want to listen to every fucking word they say.
And then there's some people where the second they open it.
Yeah, it's called a high tune out factor.
We're familiar with that around here.
One of the biggest YouTubes right now blowing up is ran by a guy that has no, he's not a charisma guy.
No, I get it.
Look, he's not a charisma.
No, no, but he's so beyond that.
He does have his own charisma.
I'll disagree with you on that.
And I think Noam Shomsky, too, agree or disagree with him.
He makes monotone sounds.
I've had him on.
I've had him on.
Lex makes monotone sound good.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But I don't think when you're that smart, people will listen.
You know what's crazy?
Like, I've been in sales for 21 years.
What I used to judge as somebody that's going to be a great salesperson, I failed miserably.
Let me explain to you why.
So I would see a guy.
I'm like, oh my God, this guy's personality.
He's freaking successful.
This guy's got to blow up.
He's going to make millions, right?
All of a sudden, it's like, no, he didn't.
He was lazy.
And then I had a guy that was terrible accent.
From stage, he would say, the key to success is you got to fuck us.
I'm like, what?
You got to fuck it.
What, gentlemen?
Fuck it for success.
By the way, if he ever writes a book, he's got to write a book since he is fucking, right?
F-U-C-K-I-S.
But what he's trying to say is you got to focus, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then, yeah, he would go and talk to families.
Half the time you would understand, but it wasn't like he was as charismatic as the other guy, but the guy was willing to do the work.
All I'm saying, Kyle, to you is the following.
All I'm saying is, I think when people come up to me and they say, you know, well, you don't understand the challenges and you don't understand the life avenue.
You don't understand how hard it is.
I'm like, how many books have you written in the last six months?
What course are you taking to improve yourself?
What are you doing to get better?
And if the answer is, you know, every, yeah, I have a problem with that.
I think that person needs to be held accountable.
Yeah, I agree.
I mean, look, I think the problem is we're having two separate conversations.
I think there's one conversation about the system and how we address the system.
Then there's a whole other conversation about at the individual level, how do you treat people?
What values do you impart on them?
And I think on the values front, on the individual front, we agree 100%.
Because, yeah, you should focus, you should try to create a culture of hard work.
You should try to create a culture of people showing up, being passionate about something, giving their all to something.
It's just, in my view, it's just two separate conversations where you could also have a separate conversation about what do we do with the system?
What do we do with the tax rates?
What do we do with the living wage law?
What do we do about unions?
And so that's where our disconnect is coming from.
Well, if you want to go there, because I want to go to a different topic.
Well, I just want to kind of revisit how this whole conversation started because obviously we're trying to find some common ground here.
But going back to, I think what you stand for with the social democracy is you ever seen that video where dozens of kids line up for a race and there's the coach being like, all right, take two steps forward if your parents are still married.
And then kids take two steps forward.
All right, take a step forward if you've graduated high school.
Boom.
And then you've seen this thing before.
I don't know if you can pull that up.
But, you know, basically, it's an expose on however you were raised or whatever the merits you had or the benefits you had, you're going to have a leg up in life.
Right.
So, all right.
So essentially the message was a lot of the black kids or the Latino kids or, you know, poor kids, poor white kids.
Poor kids.
Even poor white kids for that matter.
This understanding how privilege works.
Okay.
By the way, just to interject, I'm sorry.
I hate the like privilege discourse.
I totally agree.
I'm with you on this.
But all these kids start taking a step forward.
Okay, great.
So you're sort of your baseline is you want everybody to start at the same starting point and just have a fair starting point, a fair, no advantages for certain kids over the others.
And you talk about healthcare, free college, student loans, credit cards.
But isn't that kind of the antithesis of America?
Because hear me out, you're a byproduct of what your parents decide to do.
So if your parents work hard, pay their bills.
Is that right?
I think it is right.
Really?
So if my parents are a scoundrel drunk, then I'm just destined to be fucked and that's fine.
I'm not, why are you destined to be fucked?
You can make a decision to actually clean up your act.
You don't have to live because your parents fucked up.
But if Pat basically spent his whole life reading books, working out, improving, raised his kids the right way, made millions and hundreds of millions of dollars, and Rob over here worked a nine to five, didn't read books, didn't improve, didn't pass down anything, knowledge, wealth to his kids.
Are you saying that Rob's kids should have the exact same starting point as Pat's kids?
I think that's utterly unfair.
Okay.
So first of all, you said like this is kind of the antithesis of America.
I totally disagree with that because when you look at civil rights history, that was the core of what they were trying to do.
Hey, it's unfair that we have our boot on the neck of this entire class of people.
They're, you know, minorities and they're treated unfairly.
Let's just start treating them fairly.
That was the core of that.
And also, the New Deal, that was FDR coming in and saying, you know what?
These, what he called economic royalists have been fucking working people for far too long.
You know, the income and wealth inequality at the time was preposterous.
It was called the robber baron era because you had this top tiny sliver of the population that was making all the fucking money.
Then you had these people who were working all day, every day with shit pay.
Industrial Revolution, aristocrats, fat cats, that whole that stuff.
And so 150 years ago, though.
So what I would argue is I think what I'm trying to do is harness the best of the American tradition.
I think that social democracy is America at its best.
That's what Social Security was, Medicare, Medicaid.
These basic programs to say, I want people to have a fair shot.
It's more, I think you're focusing more on the, you know, let's like punish the Mitt Romney types or whatever.
Where my point is, no, let's help the people at the bottom to get to a reasonable floor.
Can I respond?
Sure.
100 years ago, FDR, you know, Industrial Revolution, everything that Rockefellers, even up to civil rights, dude, I think your argument is completely fair.
Meaning, like, of course, certain people were screwed, but it's been 50 plus years since then.
At what point do we acknowledge, you know what?
People, there's no systematic racism at this point.
There's no the man keeping people down.
Barack Obama became a president.
Things have changed, is what I'm saying.
We're not back in the 1910s or 1870s or even the 1960s where people didn't get a fair shake.
I think more than ever, people have the fairest shake they've ever had in this world.
So at what point does that argument kind of get quelled?
Meaning like, all right, we've addressed it.
You're right, Kyle.
50 years ago, your argument held water like crazy.
Does it still hold the same water today, though?
Yes, it does.
You know what the number one cause of bankruptcy in America is?
Medical debt.
Correct.
Yeah.
You think that makes sense?
I don't.
So wait, so just let's just focus on that for a second.
So we agree on that one.
So that same spirit that we brought to the civil rights fight, to the New Deal fight, we need, there's going to come a time when people look back at our era, let's say 50 years in the future, 100 years in the future, and they go, these fucking psychos were just sitting around when people were dying left and right and drowning up to their eyeballs in medical debt and 45,000 people died because they didn't have basic health care.
There's going to come a time where we look at that with the same kind of scorn that we looked at segregation in the Jim Crow South.
And that's what I'm just trying to do.
I don't know if it'll be that level.
However, the question is to understand.
And Bernie did a great job of this.
You know, this is the question of is healthcare a right or is it a privilege, right?
And then should the government pay for everything every time the government gets involved in something, it's going to get fucked.
But then you have these monopolies, these tech biotech companies, you know, big pharma that are making across state lines, this whole valid argument.
But at the end of the day, you know, who's paying for all this, right?
So the scan, you bring up the Scandinavian countries.
You know how many people live in all of Scandinavia?
All of Scandinavia, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Iceland, Greenland, how many people do you think?
Yeah, it's not many.
I know.
It's like 20 million people.
I understand that.
We all know that.
There's more people in Texas and in Florida and California.
We've got 20 to 40 million.
So I don't know if that argument can extrapolate because number one, each of those countries operate independently.
So it's $5 million apiece versus $350 million here.
I just don't know how it's going to work and who's going to pay for it all.
Bernie Sanders, to my final point, if you were just going based on personality and rhetoric, people are like, this guy is awesome.
He's crazy.
He's wild.
He's crazy hair.
He's got that pizzazz charisma.
But then when you got to actually do the math, it's like, how the fuck is Bernie going to pay all this?
Same with AOC and the New Green Deal.
So the problem is a lot of people will be like, yes, Bernie's the man, of course.
Tax the billionaires.
But it's like, all right, well, where's this money actually going?
How are we going to fund all this?
And that's the problem I think people have is like, great ideas.
Where's the math coming to this?
Okay.
So there's some very simple answers to that.
First of all, there was a report that just came out not too long ago in the responsible statecraft outlet.
The Pentagon just failed its fifth audit in a row.
They cannot account for, I believe the number was 59% of their funds.
We're talking defense.
Yes, we're talking trillions of dollars missing, exactly.
Yeah, of course.
Now, somebody might want to check Dick Cheney's fucking wallet, and somebody might want to check what was going on at Halliburton and what's going on with Log Brown and Root and all these Raytheon Boeing.
We spent over a trillion dollars.
I think it's actually close to $2 trillion on this plane called the F-352, which doesn't even fucking fly right to this day.
Okay.
So when you say, man, how are we going to pay for it?
That's my first answer.
Did you know if we cut our military budget, and I'm not exaggerating here, by 50%, we would still have the biggest military in the world by far, and it's not even close.
Okay.
So I'd push it up.
How much is our military budget?
So there's the on-the-books answer, then there's the off-the-books answer.
Go on the books.
Yeah, the on-the-books answer is about $850 billion.
Okay.
And how much, so do you know what percentage I think 90% of our budget goes to?
Well, it's okay.
Social Security.
Yes, we have to do it.
Medicare, Medicaid.
Discretionary versus non-discretionary issues.
Yeah, well, that entitlement programs, that's where all our money is going.
All of it.
Well, again, defense is like 5%, 10% at that.
A lot of people want to say, all right, if you cut a couple hundred billion here, there's trillions and trillions and trillions go to Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid.
So that's where the entirety of our budget is going.
And it's getting larger and larger as boomers, you know, 10,000 baby boomers turn 65 every single day.
Like, what do you want to do with those programs?
So first of all, those programs, there's the discretionary portion of the budget and the non-discretionary portion of the budget.
And those are viewed as kind of off the table.
Nobody touches this.
In other words, you don't need Washington to step in every year to re-up Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid.
They're sort of off on their own.
And I think it's a good thing that they're not addressed every single year because I don't think we'd ever fucking renew healthcare for old people or payments for old people.
I like those programs and those programs are some of the most popular in the country.
I think we should look more at doing stuff like that and not wasting a tremendous amount of money blowing up countries that didn't attack us.
Yeah, I agree.
But I'm just saying, follow the money.
The majority of the money, it's easy to go deep.
No one here is going to be like, yes, keep just pouring money into defense.
And it's without reason.
I think we're all on the same page there.
I think Pat might, because he's former Army, might say, we need America.
We talk about how many bases America has across the world.
800 plus bases where China has one.
That's been supportive.
There's a lot of excessive and glutton pork belly and all that stuff that goes into defense.
But that's still a small fraction of really where the budget is going with these entitlement programs.
You know, Kyle, the challenge like today, if a person really wanted to run for office and they got up and they said, well, listen, here's what we're going to be doing.
Folks, everybody's got to get back to work.
You got to do your part.
You got to improve some skills.
You got to learn two or three skills the next 12 months.
Hopefully five new skills the next two years.
And we think you can increase your market value.
But we are so much in debt, we can't give any more entitlement programs.
We're not going to be doing any more buildback better, nothing for eight years.
We're not spending any more money than we are right now.
We're in the business of cutting down expenses today.
Just like a company, we're supposed to cut down expenses right now.
We have way too much debt.
Do you know if somebody ran on that?
You know what's the chances of that person winning?
No chance.
Probably zero.
Zero.
Because what's popular today is what Andrew Yank says, what Bernie Sanders says, what Biden says, what Elizabeth Warren says.
What anybody says that we're going to give it to you if you vote me in for free.
We are more and more and more gradually becoming an entitled nation.
And that's a scary thought because eventually something has to happen with all this money.
We can't constantly be giving money away to people.
It is very attractive.
This is why kids love their grandparents because grandparents secretly give chocolate away to kids and parents don't.
If I see my daughter.
What goodies are people getting?
Like, I don't see the working class is struggling.
I just told you, 63% of people are living paycheck to paycheck.
People are doing, they're not in a good place right now.
Then that tells you we're doing a shitty job spending people's money.
Goes back to my point that the money being given to the government, they don't know what to do with the money because we're definitely not slowing down giving money to the government.
There's another $1.7 trillion last week.
We're not like saying no to it.
Here, here's more of our money.
Let's see what you're going to do with it.
They don't do good with it again.
Let's give you a little bit more money.
Again, they don't do good with it.
If, as an investor, you deal with your financial advisor, you're going to have a financial advisor.
You probably have a financial advisor.
And you're going to fire some financial advisors.
Okay.
And some of them, you think a lot about what they do with your money.
If you don't think about what your financial advisor is doing with your money, guess what?
It's because he's probably doing a good job, right?
You're like, okay, listen, I get the right returns.
He protects me, calls me, saying, hey, here's what happened.
I suggest moving this money from here to bonds because we think the next six months is going to go this.
Hey, I think we're ready to go into equities.
Are you comfortable with going to equities?
Great.
And then there are some that never call you.
There are people in your life you trust, a waiter you trust.
Hey, I like my ICT 9010.
I got you, Pat.
He brings it.
How is it?
Good.
Never ask him again because the guy knows how to make your ICT or Arnold Palmer.
Hey, here's how I like my steak, medium.
You ever had an order to medium and they bring you well done?
How annoyed you are when you cut the meat and you're like, dude, I said medium.
This is well done, right?
You don't trust that restaurant.
Okay.
The government has a very low trust in the marketplace with what they do with the money.
And this doesn't go on Bernie Sanders because a Bernie Sanders getting elected isn't all of a sudden going to clean house with all the employees and bring in the people that we're going to trust that's going to do the job because Bernie's not going to be doing the job.
Trump's not going to, it's going to be the people on the inside that are going to be doing the job.
So that's the challenge when it goes back to what we do with the money.
They have a very low credibility score of what they do.
On this, we agree with public trust in the government from 1950 to today.
Let me address this.
Because on this, we 100% agree.
As somebody who believes in social democracy, I mean, I think somebody would have to be high to think that I support this current government.
I mean, the problem is from the 1970s until today, there's been a number of Supreme Court cases which have effectively legalized bribery, legalized corruption.
There was the Buckley versus Vallejo case, the McCutcheon case, the Citizens United case.
And this is just fancy legal speak of saying they decided it is the same as free speech rights for a billionaire or a corporation to donate to politicians.
So when you bring up your concern of like, look, what the fuck's going on with all this money?
Like they, you know, the government keeps doing stuff and people don't see improvements in their everyday life.
I think that's a million percent correct.
And the reason is you have the military industrial complex, big pharma, the for-profit health insurance companies, Wall Street, individual billionaires.
They pay the politicians.
Then the politicians turn around and pass legislation that helps out those special interests, those lobbyists.
Doesn't help out the working people.
So we're 100% in agreement on that.
And I think the solution on that front, if you want good governance, if you want a government that actually represents the people more, where you can see it's all accountable and you see where the money is going and it's all going to positive places, there's something called clean elections, which effectively is taking the private financing out of the election system.
So no more corporate donations, no more billionaire donations.
The way it works is there's a process to determine who gets on the ballot.
And then once you're on the ballot, it's funded by the taxpayers.
And then you have a genuine, real, true battle of ideas and policies and disagreements.
And it's no longer a battle of competing factions where, for example, it's like, well, you know, the Democrats are bought by this lawyer group or these unions and the Republicans are bought by this hedge fund.
And so whoever ends up winning the election, guess who's going to get served?
Either the hedge fund or the right, yes.
Yeah, but we're on the same playstate.
This is why, this is why I'm for Trump and Bernie because neither one of them are bought.
Okay.
And whatever they're going to say is whatever they're going to say.
And they got the voters to come in.
We had Paul Manafort here, I don't know what it was, four months ago, five months ago.
And I said, I don't like lobbyists because you guys are messing everything up.
You know how much money these guys make?
It's ungodly.
Some of these guys are making $10, $20 million a year doing what they're doing.
But here's one thing that's, again, I think we're going to agree on this one here.
So Elon buys Twitter, okay?
Which we haven't even gotten to the Twitter conversation to see what your thoughts are on that.
But Elon buys Twitter.
They got 7,500 employees.
Immediately, he cuts 50%.
So go to 3,750.
They cut 3,750.
The 3,750 that were cut recruit the other 1,200 to quit.
So 3,750 gets another 1,200.
So he's now lost 5,000.
Twitter goes from 7,500 employees to 2,500 employees.
And Twitter's done more advancement in the last two months of additional things on Twitter than you've seen the last two, three years.
Now, whether you like the features or not, it's irrelevant.
It's things are being updated, right?
It's like quickly things are being updated.
Twitter went from being a slow, large, you know, a social government, social media company to now it's going back to the startup things moving very, very quickly, right?
The amount of organizations we have in the government that have 10,000, 50,000, 100,000 employees that can be run on a tenth of that, you're seeing, and by the way, Facebook, other companies are seeing what Twitter is doing.
They're like, dude, maybe we don't need 100,000 employees.
Maybe we don't need 50,000.
And by the way, these salaries are not like it's $20,000 a year salary, $70,000 a year salaries.
These are guys making $180,000, $150,000, $200,000, $250,000 a year salary.
So we're also learning that wasted money in free enterprise, people are starting to realize we can do more work with fewer people.
That's not good for people that want to raise minimum wage.
But also in the government, every time, we need 80,000, how many thousand IRS agents did they just hire?
87,000,000 new animals.
And they're saying with the 87,000 87,000 IRS agents, we're going to, did you see what number they give?
We're going to be able to collect another trillion dollars of tax money.
To be fair, they say that's for people who make $400,000 and over.
They're saying that.
They're saying that.
But good luck going and spending some money and getting a $700 bill on something you did on PayPal or any of that stuff.
You're still getting that $700 tax bill.
They're still going and collecting that money from the people.
87,000 IRS agents for what?
How does that sell me the dream?
How does that sell me the dream?
What are you saying to people?
We're going to collect money.
You really need 87,000 of them.
Well, see, the problem is under the previous administrations, I think going all the way back to Bill Clinton, but it may have been from Obama and onward, there's been effectively like a war on the IRS where they've fired a tremendous number of them.
So getting back these 87,000 is not even getting back to what it was however many years ago.
Do you think we need more IRS agents?
To go after the wealthy?
Yeah, because right now I agree with your point about the IRS kind of harassing working people and going after people who make $40,000 a year or whatever it is.
No, I don't want to go after those people.
And like I told you, I think those people should get a tax cut, if anything else.
I think they should have more money.
Yes, I definitely think we should rein in the oligarchs for sure.
And you need the IRS in order to do that.
How big are the oligarchs do we have?
Well, I would define the oligarchs as what we just described before, which is the billionaires and corporations who pay the government their campaign contributions.
$87,000 to go after 500 people.
Well, no, I mean, not just the oligarchs.
I'm talking about the top 1%.
I think you should go after basically the top 1%, including the oligarchs.
Are you part of top 1% right now?
I'm probably part of the top 5%.
Okay.
But you're going to be in the top 1% very soon.
Maybe, maybe not.
We'll see.
There's no question about it.
You keep working, buddy.
You'll be there.
There's no question.
Capitalism's giving you a very good life.
And I think if you keep continuing, you'll be in the top 0.1%.
So we believe in you, Kyle.
That's what we're trying to say.
No, I keep it.
I'm saying the government should tax the shit out of me.
That's what I think.
Really?
What's up?
How much should they tax?
That's a fair rate.
You know, I make six figures at the moment.
I wouldn't put myself in the top bracket.
But yeah, I mean, so what's your tax rate?
Like, be real.
What's your tax rate right now?
You're in New York?
I mean, New York has kind of high state tax.
So let's say you make $200,000 a year.
Okay.
So you're paying $100,000 in taxes.
Probably closer to like $85, $90,000.
Something like that.
So what are you more comfortable paying?
Yeah, no, I think that's a fair rate.
So what happens if they talk 10% more?
I would probably switch it up in terms of what percentage goes to the federal government versus what percentage goes to the state government.
I'm kind of a believer in a more centralized system.
I don't like how you have so many layers of government where each one can tax you and they do different things.
I'm a big fan of centralization in the sense that it should be the same rules in Kentucky as it is in New York in a sense.
But yeah, in terms of the amount of money that I'm taxed, sure.
If you tell me that money is going towards healthcare, education, pre-K.
But I'm saying, look, entertain my hypothetical.
Entertain my hypothetical.
You know what you're saying?
You're saying you don't trust the people that are getting your money today.
That's what you're saying.
Yeah, but nobody does.
And that's correct.
Left, right, we all agree on that.
But if we don't, why give them more?
Because we're trying to make it so that money goes towards good things, to reallocate.
And that's what I'm fighting for on a daily basis.
But it's not the point, though.
But you don't.
I would be a hypocrite if I said, you know what?
I'm in favor of raising taxes on all these people.
But you know what?
Cut my taxes, even though I make $6 billion.
That's not the point.
But what we have things that we agree with.
We don't agree who's getting the money because they don't have a track record of doing the right thing with the money they're already getting from us.
We totally agree on that.
Okay, so do you know to fix that, what we have to do?
It's a lot of work.
If U.S. was a corporation, you have to fire 50% of the existing people and then bring newer people in who have ethics to clean it up that actually have to do the work because the existing people are not.
They're in a swamp type of an environment that they've been getting away for a while and no president's going to be able to fix that.
If there was anything that we did, like if the last person that said, give us this money and we'll give the money back was a guy named Abraham Lincoln.
I think it's 1872 or whatever the year was.
He says, hey, we're going to tax you guys 10% for the next however many years.
And then once we pay off the money we got from the war, the debt, then we're going to stop taxing you.
Guess what happened after Abraham Lincoln when he did that?
They collected the debt, they stopped taxing.
Okay.
That's how tax was.
We'll collect the money, we'll pay off the debt, and we'll not tax you again.
Until 1913, hey, let's FDR.
Let's start taxing everybody.
I mean, that's a cool way to collect.
That's before FDR.
That was an FTR.
No, when Lincoln did it, it was 1872.
Of course, it's before FDR.
1913, I was saying, 1914.
Yeah, but when taxes came in, it's like, hey, let's keep taxing, taxing.
FDR brought minimum wage, 25 cents an hour, and then boom, you know, he did what he did.
But the point is, that's what taxes was.
We know where it went to.
Today, nobody.
You're talking about Pentagon five, this the fifth time?
Yeah, nobody trusted where the money is going to.
Right.
So if you and I don't trust an institution that has shown zero credibility on what to do with the money we're already being given them for decades, you want us to give them more money?
Well, we're saying the same thing.
I'm saying in an ideal system, I should be taxed.
If you make six figures or if you're a millionaire, if you're a billionaire, yeah, I think their taxes should be steep.
And I think they'll still be just fine, but I think that money should go towards the thing we've discussed over and over in this podcast.
They're not doing it, though.
No, I understand that.
But this is what I'm saying.
We need to do both things.
We need to try to fight for that world.
And also, I'm not going to sit here and say my tax rate should be zero or my tax rate should be 10% or some shit.
Because then I would be a massive hypocrite and everybody would be right to dunk on it.
Which is first, though.
Which is, I don't think so.
I think you're 30% of the time.
I think you try to do them simultaneously.
January 31st.
I think you're trying to do them.
Yes.
I think you try to do them simultaneously.
I don't think you can do that, though.
I think in life, you're going to go through a lot of philosophical changes.
You're going to be like, okay, shit, things change.
What's this all about?
And I was going, well, that's not cool.
What is this?
If you're the same at 44 as you are at 34, there's problems, right?
It's not going to happen.
If I'm the same at 54 as I am today, I wasted 10 years of my life.
I'm going to have some changes that happen in my life.
For me, first starts off with accountability.
Then when you earn trust with me, then I'll give you more taxes.
Not the other way around.
First, you have to prove to me that you're now doing the right thing with the money.
Then you come out and say, cool, you want to go to this?
Listen, man, you've proven you do the right thing.
Here's another 5%.
Because the last 10 years, you've proved me wrong.
I didn't trust you.
But the last 10 years, look how responsible you've been with the money that you've had and we lord it for you.
Now you want to bump a little bit more?
Let's talk about it.
I understand that.
I agree with all of it, but nobody should be worried about me is my point.
I'm not the person who's hurting.
The person who's hurting is the person who makes 20K a year when they work full-time, 30K a year when they work full-time.
So that's my main point.
But that's a market value for the YouTuber who does phenomenally well for running his mouth for a living.
No, but I also think you're living in a state that has shown to have zero responsibility with what they do with the money.
You're not living in a state that's doing a good job with the money.
I lived in California for a long time, 20-some years.
I lived in Texas five years, and I came to Florida two years ago.
I've been here for two years.
It's not even two years yet, right?
It's going to be two years in the beginning.
Your birthday is going to be two years.
Happy birthday.
Thank you very much.
But the point is, we came here.
We were building our media company.
I just sold my insurance company six months ago.
So I'm sitting there saying, where do I move the media company to?
I didn't want to leave it in Dallas.
We looked at Greenwich.
We're going to go to not Greenwich.
New York.
We're going to go to New York.
And then we looked at Newport, Newport Beach, because I'm from LA and I like Newport Beach.
And then we looked at Texas, Nashville, and last minute, Florida.
We were looking at Tampa and we looked at South Florida.
I didn't go to New York because it was a shit show with the way they handle COVID, taxes.
No matter how much taxes you give them, they keep raising it.
California, top of the chain with taxes.
You know, first time since 1851, California has lost net net with the amount of people they have there.
People are leaving that place.
They don't trust California.
Tennessee, I lived in Tennessee for two years.
I didn't want to go to, when I was in the Army, I lived in Tennessee for a couple of years.
I love Tennessee, but I kind of wanted to have a little bit of the lifestyle with the money.
And then I saw DeSantis handled things in the state of Florida.
I said, you know, this is a place to move down to because his policies earned the trust of me moving my family.
I have a question for you.
Yeah.
2024, Trump versus DeSantis.
Number one, what do you want to happen?
Number two, what do you think will happen?
It's a great conversation.
We've had it many times.
I don't think it's pretty.
I think it's going to be ugly.
I think it's, this is a part where I'm going to kind of agree with you on, give you something that you're going to be able to talk about.
I think there could be a civil war on the Republican side.
I don't think it will be pretty.
And I think if a DeSantis or a Trump is wise, specifically more on the DeSantis side, you have to do negotiations up front before 2024 comes around.
Meaning, my camp is sitting down with Trump's cam right now having conversations to see if we can do anything here.
Because if Trump comes out doing what Trump's going to do, it's going to be, you know how Bernie came out calling out Biden, calling out Warren, calling out all that stuff?
But guess what Bernie did at the end of the day?
He broke the back and he fell in love.
He did.
There's no way.
So this is going to happen.
Who's the favorite right now between Trump and DeSantis?
DeSantis is.
So you agree with me?
I've been having this debate with people.
In the Republican Party, you think DeSantis is the favorite?
Oh, we got a disagreement.
So you think TechSoup is, if we're talking Vegas odds, Vegas put DeSantis at the top, then it's Biden, then it's Trump.
No, no, and I'm saying in the Republican primary, Trump is the sales of the sales.
I think it's DeSantis.
It's Trump's salute.
You think it's the salute?
I totally disagree now.
I think DeSantis is the favorite right now.
Trump has.
I hope you're right, Kyle.
I think a lot of people have to.
What I said to you, I'm giving you Vegas odds.
I'm sorry.
Trump is two.
DeSantis is one.
Three is Biden.
Trump is two.
DeSantis is one.
These are the odds that I trust.
These are the polls that I trust, by the way.
Vegas.
I don't disagree with you.
I'm telling you.
Not Pew, not Razz News and Quinnipiak, Vegas.
So let me give you, here's the problem with Trump electorally.
In the 2018 election, Republicans got hammered.
He was the face of the party.
In the midterm, you mean?
Or 2016?
Yes, 2018.
In the midterm.
In the 2020 election, Republicans got hammered.
Trump was the top of the ticket.
Trump hasn't won since 2016 is what you're about to say.
That is exactly right.
And the other thing is the candidates who were most tied to him, Doug Mastriano, Carrie Lake, all the ones that were the most Trump.
The election deniers got the elections.
They got hammered.
And meanwhile, you look at a Republican like Kemp in Georgia, who is not an election denier.
He won and he won comfortably.
Larry Hogan in Maryland.
So we're talking about, honestly, I think he lost a step.
I think he lost more than one step, Trump did.
I mean, if you see him over on Truth Social now, he can't shut up about the 2020 election.
It's nonstop.
They rigged it.
They stole it.
It's grievance 24-7.
He's not talking about what he wants to do with the country.
He's not going after the elites.
He is the whiny elite.
He said the other day, terminate the Constitution on social media.
And all DeSantis has to do is sit back and chill and let Trump self-destruct.
And by the way, he's plotted his way along brilliantly for a right-wing primary because he did that thing the other day where it was like a roundtable event with a bunch of vaccine skeptical people.
The right-wing base loved that.
There was something else that he did, which I'm blanking on at the moment, but he's been plotting his way around perfectly where he's not pro-Trump.
He's not anti-Trump.
He's just sort of Trump agnostic and doing his own thing.
And a lot of people are leaving Trump and going to DeSantis.
I think he's the favorite for the Republican protest.
What I think you're saying is the magic he had in 2015, 2016 is gone.
It's gone.
I don't think anybody would disagree with you.
Believe it or not, there are people.
I've had this debate with Chris.
I've had this debate with Sager, and I love both of them, but they've held strong to this day.
Like, no, he's still the Don.
Well, that's for 25% of the country and 40% of the Republican base.
That's great.
That might win you a primary.
That's not going to win you a general election.
I'm sorry.
How do you lose to a walking corpse like Joe Biden?
Joe Biden is literally because you're that toxic of a candidate.
Correct.
But let me go back.
Let me go back to the point I was trying to make to you.
So why did DeSantis all of a sudden get, you know, he went from winning by 34,000 votes in 2018, barely winning by 34,000 votes, to now 1.5, 1.6 million votes.
What did he do to become the best governor in all of America, plus minus votes?
That's a form of trust, including Miami-Dade County.
What did he do to become the number one governor in America?
Well, I would say, first and foremost, name recognition is huge.
He's now the second biggest Republican name in the country behind Donald Trump.
So I think that's a big part of that.
But how do you get that name, I think is what he's asking?
Honestly, I think the media is not nearly as anti-DeSantis as they were anti-Trump.
And he sort of gets part of credit, though.
No, well, but I disagree with him.
So I'm not trying to hide from it or whatever.
I understand that he did things that some people like.
I don't like the things that he did.
For example, he's against raising the minimum wage, even though 60% of Florida voters said they want to raise the minimum wage.
He's against legalizing marijuana.
He said it smells putrid, so it probably shouldn't be legalized.
These are things I just disagree with.
Now, where I will agree with you, there's politics and there's policy.
On policy, I don't agree with him at all.
On politics, I think he's a very good politician and he's dangerous and he could get elected.
Well, let me say this part: okay, do you agree with the policies of New York, how they handle COVID?
No, of course not.
Okay.
So who did I think is a complicated topic?
I'm not on.
So there are some people on the left who I would describe as authoritarian, where they said, hey, shut down the economy, force you to wear a mask, force you to get a shot.
I'm not part of the authoritarian.
You're not.
No, no, no, I'm not.
Who would you say is in that camp?
Newsome.
I don't want to.
Oh, you're talking about governors?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Newsome was definitely.
I mean, this is a guy who shutting allow outdoor eating, and then he was eating indoors at some restaurant.
So you're fair.
You're being reasonable in those areas.
Yeah, but I would call myself a COVID centrist in terms of what policies I would have taken.
Like you took the vaccine, you probably went through some of the stuff.
Okay, yeah.
So for me, do you see yourself living in New York long term?
Like 20 years ago.
Will you be in New York?
Well, I have family there, so I probably will always be around there because of family.
But if it wasn't for family, no.
Look, I mean, I'm the last lefty on the planet that loves Florida, but the reason I love Florida is the fucking weather.
I am like the classic case of the seasonally depressed asshole who needs to get in the sun ASAP.
But you know what's crazy about here?
Like, here's what's crazy about here.
You know how like in California or New York, if you're on Republican or you're conservative or you're a capitalist, you may not want to brag about the fact that you are because it's a different climate that you have in New York and California.
And if you go to Texas, certain parts of Texas, if you're on the left, I'm not talking Austin.
I'm talking certain areas in Texas.
If you go like, hey, I'm a progressive on this, you probably don't want to brag about it.
You know what Florida says?
We don't care.
If you're going to come here, work, make your money, do all this stuff, come on down, man.
If you're going to be doing that part.
So going back to the question about policies and what they do with the money, DeSantis earns the right to say, here's how much money we want to use to do X, Y, Z. Are you guys up for it?
I would entertain it because of how they've managed things in Florida so far.
That's the part what I'm saying.
That if we're going back to, I think we need to do more money to be Medicare and I want to wire 45,000 people.
Fine, no problem.
First, earn the right on what you've done with the other trillions of dollars we've given you, the U.S. government.
Now you fix that by getting rid of half of the people that all this wasted money.
Now you can come back and say, guys, because we did such a good job with the last seven times we raised taxes on you or your money you gave us, we would like to ask for ask for the following.
Okay, let's have the conversation.
It's like a budget meeting.
You're the CMO.
You come out and you say, guys, last year I asked for $7 million from my budget.
Okay, yes.
This year I want to up it to $12 million.
And we say, $12 million, Kyle, what are you going to do with it?
Well, let me tell you what we did with the last $7 million.
Last year, when you guys gave me a budget of $7 million, here's how much we made.
$600,000 was used for AdSense for ads on Facebook.
That $600,000 made us $4.2 million.
The year before we spent $300,000, we only made $600,000.
Number two, we put an event with $2 million.
That $2 million event made us $4.8 million.
Last year, we did $1 million at the event.
We only made $1,200.
So my $7 million budget last year you gave us, I made you $22 million.
That is why I'm asking for $12 million.
And we say, you know what, Kyle?
$12 million, you have $15 million because you've earned the trust to ask for more money.
If American government was a CMO, they've done the opposite.
We've given them the $7 million and they've come back saying we need another $10 million.
Yeah.
I mean, I take your point.
I think it's a reasonable point.
My only disagreement would be when I look at the government, it's not just a monolith.
There's so many different parts of the government that do different things and are responsible for different things.
And so if you tell me, hey, we're going to take X amount of money and we're going to put it directly into, say, Medicare or Social Security or, you know, some program that, what's the children's health insurance program or whatever it was, which gives health insurance to kids.
If you say, we're going to allocate this exact amount of money to this, then I say, oh, definitely, I'll sign on the dotted line right now.
If you tell me, you know, it's going to go towards some subsidy to some asshole who doesn't deserve to get that subsidy, then it's a totally different conversation.
I agree with you completely.
So I just, I think it's a, you know, bureaucracy is complicated.
In general, you know, bureaucracy can suck if it's not efficient, right?
But certain parts of the government I like better than other parts of the government.
Were you going to say something?
Well, I wanted to talk about a story that you brought up.
I don't want to shift gears, though.
I want to talk about a story that you brought up about this story.
It's on page seven.
You talked about two-thirds of Americans are now living paycheck to paycheck.
You cited that.
It's a recent story, right?
How recent?
It's always been pretty bad.
That's my point.
And that's kind of where I was going this.
And I'll just kind of say payments release's latest survey showed that as of November, 63% of American consumers are living paycheck to paycheck, a 3% increase from the previous month, but roughly the same time as last year.
So if you look at the headlines, it's like, holy shit, two-thirds of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck.
What's my point with bringing this up?
I've been in the finance space for 15 years.
I've been a major advocate of personal finance and personal responsibility for five plus years.
That's how I even got into the social media world, which now turned into business and entrepreneurship and everything that I do.
But I've recognized that two-thirds of Americans have been living paycheck to paycheck for decades.
Right.
Yeah.
Okay.
And where am I going with this?
So personal responsibility, personal decisions, personal finance.
And this is kind of revisiting like the conversation of like, well, if you make better decisions as a dad and do better than our friend over here, of course your kids should benefit from that.
It's not everything is equal.
So I'll give you a little anecdotal story.
I used to go do a lot of man on the street interviews.
So during COVID in 2021, I would go down and interview all the spring breakers.
And two people on the same street, shout out to the people on Ocean Drive down in South Beach that I interviewed back to back.
I interviewed this girl and I was like, what up?
Did you get a stimulus check?
She's like, oh, yeah.
How much?
$1,800?
She goes, nope, I got $6,400.
I go, $6,400?
What's TDP loan, right?
No, no, she had dependents.
You get $1,800 or whatever it was, $1,600 per dependent.
Don't beat me up if it was $1,600 or $1,800.
I don't remember what it was.
I didn't qualify.
But, okay.
I'm like, well, amazing.
You got $6,400.
I said, how much did you spend on this trip to South Beach?
She goes, $6,400.
I was like, holy shit, you idiot.
You spent all your money on this trip to South Beach.
All right.
Good luck out there, baby.
Then I go interview another guy.
I was like, what's up?
How are you doing?
He's like, spring break.
I'm out here.
I go, how much did you get for spring break?
I'm sorry, for your stimulus check.
He's like, $3,200, right?
I guess he's got a kid or a wife or whatever it was.
And I go, how much did you spend on this trip?
He goes, $1,000.
I go, oh, what'd you do with the rest of it?
He goes, oh, I put $1,000 into my Roth IRA.
I put another $1,000 into my savings.
And I use another $1,000 to actually enjoy my life.
I go, respect to you, bro.
So these individual decisions that you make have a major factor in what you do with life.
Let's take that deeper.
Let's say you're that exact same girl that spent $6,400 and that exact same guy only spent a thousand bucks on his vacation and pumped a lot of his money into his retirement account to his savings account.
God bless you.
Or maybe he paid off credit cards or maybe he's just saving up for a down payment on his loan.
Okay, so now say that that girl in her free time, five hours a day, she knows every show on Netflix.
She's watching Game of Thrones and Game of Thrones Part 2 and House of Dragons.
And the other guy is actually watching PBD podcasts two hours a day and twice a week.
And he's improving.
He's getting smarter and he's reading a book.
He's just doing it.
And the other girl, she's playing video games and she's doing that.
Whereas the other guy is working out and improving.
So I'm saying that you are a byproduct of the decisions that you make.
So that girl who's spending all her money on a stimulus check to go out and party and watch Netflix and play video games, why should she have the exact same advantage or the exact same life?
Or why should her kids have the exact same life as that dude who pumped his money into a Roth IRA into a 401k, saved his money that worked out?
Why should their kids have the exact same starting point when we're all a byproduct of the decisions that our parents make?
Okay.
So the short answer is you're not going to create a government bureaucracy to comb through 175 million people to determine who you think is worthy and who you think is not worthy.
When you do a relief program, generally speaking, there's going to be broad relief, in which case, yeah, some people might be assholes, might be irresponsible.
They get the money and others may not be.
No doubt.
The government should give all the people the money.
It's all good, but it's on the person to decide what you're going to do with them.
Well, look, I don't think anybody would disagree with that.
And yeah, you can point at certain examples of individuals being assholes with their money, but I do think that misses the bigger picture.
And here's why.
There was a UBI study that came out of Stockton, California.
The mayor over there somehow got this pilot program started with universal basic income.
I think he gave $500 a month to people.
And what they found is that in the overwhelming majority of cases, the money went towards necessities.
And so I think that is more indicative of your average American.
The best part of the COVID rescue plans, in my opinion, was the direct checks to individual people who were struggling.
The worst part was, for example, the billions of dollars that went to, say, the airlines.
And there were things attached to that.
There were strings attached.
They said, look, you can't fire people if we're going to give you this money because they were afraid these airlines are going to take the money, then fire everybody.
And guess what they did?
They gave people early retirement, which was basically firing them anyway.
And then here we are today where they're still understaffed and we can't.
If I may, I don't want to interject.
Colorado road.
I don't want to get caught up in the fact that these were government handouts, government bailouts.
Let's just use a different example.
We both make $10,000 as a bonus at the end of the year.
We work for the exact same job.
I spend my money and max out my 401k and pay off my credit card bills and save some money.
Yeah, you're irresponsible.
Okay.
You go spend half of it at the club, go to South Beach, spend it at partying at 11 in South Beach, big club, and you spend money on strippers and cocaine and have the time of your life.
God bless you.
Invite me next time.
However, to say that those people should, their kids are the byproduct of their family should have the exact same situation, I have a major problem with because you have the ability to make the decisions.
This isn't government handouts.
No, but you both got a $10,000 bonus.
But out of curiosity, do you think the kids, the kid that happens to have asshole parents, so you think there should be like some sort of punishment associated with that?
What do you mean asshole parents?
Let me ask you a question.
Parents who want better decisions.
The one who was irresponsible.
No, they made better financial decisions.
No, no, no.
I'm not.
No.
I'm saying the person who was irresponsible, the parents who partied on South Beach or whatever, and they have their kid.
And that kid is behind the eight ball, obviously, because they don't have the most responsible parents in the world.
Correct.
So where's the disconnect here?
Do you think that kid shouldn't have health care, shouldn't have education?
Like, what do you think they should do?
I'm just saying that you want to give free health care, free college, and make sure these kids don't have credit card debt.
No, no, I don't want to limit credit card debt.
No, no, no, saying credit card debt is high.
Well, of course.
But a lot of that is because the parenting didn't teach the kids the right way.
Okay.
So like, I don't think that we should just, by the way, the student loan thing, I signed, whether that's right or wrong, I signed up for my student loans when I was 18.
I took out 25 grand in student loans.
That's on me.
No, it's not.
I think that's a bullshit system.
And I think you were hoodwinked whether or not you realize it.
I think in the same way, look, I went to public high school.
I paid $0.00 out of my own pocket.
It was paid for by the taxes of the community.
All I'm saying is it should apply to college like that, too.
There are people who start out and they're in major, major debt because they're like, I want to improve my life.
And it's like, well, great.
Now give me $100,000.
Yeah, but at what point, like we all saw what happened with Sam Bankman Freed and everything that he did.
And his mother penned some article about, I don't believe in personal responsibility.
So I think kind of like the whole premise of America is that you're an individual.
You can do whatever you want in your life.
I say this all the time.
There's a major difference between being poor and broke.
Poor, you live in a poor shithole country and some you're in Honduras, whatever.
You can't make your money.
Broke in America, you make 50 grand a year and somehow you can't get by.
That to me doesn't add up because I see the decision.
I live in South Beach.
I see the decisions people make on the weekends.
They spend $300 at a bar tab and they should have fucking stayed in that night.
Do you have a business?
And that person ends up paycheck to paycheck complaining about inflation, whereas that is money that they should probably have just saved.
But they want to do things that their friends are doing and they want to keep up with the Joneses.
My question for you is very simple.
I think we're having two separate conversations.
Do you have any systemic critiques or does it always come back to the individual?
The systemic critiques are fair, meaning I think we all agree that the system is messed up.
But if you think that at the end of the day, what's easier to fix?
The system with a $30 trillion GDP or your life based on 50 grand.
And if your life based on 50 grand is the easier thing to fix, that's where you should start.
Okay, but the wailing against the system and like the victim mentality and like, oh my God, life's so tough.
You have to have straw man.
I'm not saying that, but there are a lot of people that say, you have no idea how many conversations I have with people.
My fucking boss is an asshole.
Life sucks.
They don't pay me enough.
It's like, you make 50 grand.
I see what you're doing on the weekends, buddy.
Okay.
You could have stayed in Saturday night, but inside you went to the club.
It's not a straw man of working people, but every working person is just some asshole who fucks off and gets drunk every week.
That's not what I'm saying.
There are many people who are busting their ass and just not able to pay the bills.
But my main disagreement at their job.
What are they doing with their free time?
My main disagreement is that I submit to you, people cannot just bootstrap their way out of this if the system is rigged.
I think it's rigged.
What say you?
I think there's a lot of things within the system that can be improved.
Okay, that's great.
But if you want to go out, but if you want to wait for the system to improve itself and fix your life, I've never said those words.
Go for it, buddy.
Good luck.
I think I'd rather start with myself and in year one, get out of debt.
Year two, save some money.
Year three, start investing and do something about it rather than wait four years for Bernie to try to figure it out.
First of all, I'm giving a hypothetical, but I would rather look in the mirror and say, I got to do some things in my life than wait for the government or Kyle or the system to have it figured out.
That's just my opinion.
The problem here is I don't think anybody disagrees with what you're saying.
When you talk about like, hey, do the best you can, work really hard, pick a passion, give your all to it, learn, expand your horizons.
If you say those things, then I say, and I think any reasonable person would say, 100% on board.
But I think the problem is when if somebody comes along and has a separate conversation critiquing the system because they say it's rigged, it's not fair.
And then you invoke the individualistic argument again, in a sense to kind of cock block the conversation about the systemic critiques, then I think it becomes a problem because then the assumption is the implication is if you just bootstrap your way out of it, you're going to get out of it.
And my whole point is, I don't think that's possible.
I think there are tens of millions of people who are part of this working poor group who did nothing wrong on their own and the system just fucked them.
Let me give you one story.
When I was in high school, the hardest working guy I knew, his name was Kevin.
Okay.
He rented a shitty little apartment and he worked two or sometimes even three jobs, was going nonstop.
And the guy was living at or below the poverty line.
I look at that guy and I say, huh, what can he do to change this situation to be better off?
And the answer is, honestly, not much.
The problem is the jobs he's working have shit pay.
And I submit to you, yes, there should be rules around that.
This dude should be able to live a decent life, especially since he's such a hard worker.
He's such a good person.
He should be able to live a decent life.
Now, in terms of the irresponsible people, I agree.
If you want to have a conversation about how there's a bunch of douchebags on South Beach, believe me, I know.
Yeah, the conversation that I think we're talking about.
So let's use, let's be very clear.
What did Kevin do for work?
Oh, geez.
He was a delivery drive.
One of his jobs was delivery driver.
So he would spend, you know, from probably five o'clock at night until 10 o'clock at night, he'd be delivering pizza.
Great.
What was his next?
He did some landscaping stuff in the morning.
Now, how did Kevin, he went to high school with you?
Yes.
Did he graduate high school?
I don't know if he ended up graduating.
He didn't even fucking graduate high school.
Okay.
Wait, hold on.
So Kevin was a screw-up.
But what if I told you his parents died and so he had to pay the bills to look after his siblings?
Then would your calculation change?
He needs to earn money right now, so he goes to do something to earn money right now.
Okay, I'm just saying that graduating.
Okay, that's great.
That's a solid, I feel horribly for Kevin.
But the reality is, and everyone has a hobby story.
We can go down the line here.
Well, the guy that graduated high school, his parents died, but his parents were disabled, but he still figured it out.
Like, oh, this person was black and an all-white school.
We can go down the slippery slope of like, oh, this person had it worse than me.
But we're focusing on Kevin.
The problem that I have is, yes, there are hardworking people.
I've gone down to rallies, the Fight for 15 rally in downtown Miami with one of my best friends, Harris, Haitian kid, who works his ass off.
And I'm seeing the people that are fighting for 15.
They are immigrants.
They barely speak English.
They don't have anything going on.
They're working two jobs.
I feel for these people.
But what we are in agreement on is that during their time of work, making those deliveries, respect.
They're working their ass off.
My question is, what are you doing with your spare time?
We all get 24 hours in a day.
My inkling, my inkling is those people who are still continually living paycheck to paycheck, having two jobs, can't figure it out.
They're not putting in the work outside of work.
We're going to fully fundamentally agree on Kevin, the delivery driver.
It's tough out there as a delivery driver, no doubt.
But my question is, when Kevin goes home, is he putting on Netflix or is he watching videos that will improve his life?
I think most people would rather put on Netflix.
And I think to Pat's credit, what Pat is basically saying is when he was working at Bally's and his boss is saying, hey, you can be like me and make 80 grand a year.
Just do this.
He's like, dude, I want to do more.
And I'm going to read books and I'm going to improve.
But it's outside of the working hours.
That's really what it comes down to for me.
Those people that are fighting for 15, I'm wondering what they're doing outside working hours.
Yeah, I mean, but look, I mean, I think I believe in a good beer, a football game or an NBA game or something.
Like, I want people to have that leisure time that really every single Sunday, though?
I mean, if you work full time, yes.
If you work full time, I think you should be able to live on that wage.
Yes.
That's not how life works, though.
I know, but I want to make it that way.
That's why we're talking.
That's why we're arguing.
But it's not, it's not.
No, I, and by the way, first of all, I got to tell you, I didn't know if I was going to like you or not.
I'm being very honest with you.
I can't tell you how much I like you.
I can't wait to have you back on again.
And I'm being very sincere with you.
I'm like, I can't wait to have you back on next year and multiple times over the population.
By the way, I was very excited to come in here knowing that we don't fully agree.
I find that interesting.
But there is, you're a true believer, and that's an easy conversation to have.
But to go back and talk about like, I would like to see everybody be able to take a Sunday off, it's just not reasonable or logical for the following reasons.
Let me explain why.
Let me explain why.
Well, I'll go further when you're done.
So, you know, like when people get married and we have this idea of what marriage is like, okay?
And they get married like, oh, wow.
I didn't know these 73 different things.
This idea about having kids.
Let me tell you, 90% of having kids is very difficult and annoying, 90% of having kids.
So it's to say, you know what?
I would like every mother that had a baby to have their Sundays off to do whatever.
Yeah, that's not logical.
It's not reasonable.
Yeah, I would love every startup person that's starting a business to have their Sundays to themselves.
Not logical, not reasonable.
I would like every soldier that's deployed in Iraq or, you know, I would like to have them.
It's not like the war doesn't happen on Monday through Saturday.
It's not like international law.
We only fight wars Monday through Saturday.
No.
Hey, I would love for NBA players to have Sundays off.
No, they're going to play on Sundays.
Hey, I would love these NFL players to have Sundays off to themselves.
That's not reasonable.
Hey, I would love these, you know, people who are going to church and pastors.
I want them to have Sundays off.
No, no, that's your work.
So the point, the point being, anything big, anything worthy, anything that you're going to be very, very proud of is going to come with a timeline of you not having a life.
Okay.
Having a kid, you don't have a life.
When you're in a military deployed, you don't have a life.
When you're running to get your MBA, you don't have a life.
When you're running to be a bodybuilder, Iranian guy, Hadi Shopan, just won Mr. Olympia, you're not going to have a life.
When Ali was getting ready for a fight 90 days before a fight, you don't have a life.
So almost the biggest, most incredible, rewarding things that we go through come with a few years of not having a life.
So I get what you're saying, where eventually a person ought to have the right to be able to dot, dot, dot.
For sure, I'm with it.
But to say, I want everybody to have a day, it's like saying, dude, your dream is going to be this demanding.
Do you want to do that?
It's going to take two years of you not watching any Netflix, any shows.
Are you willing to go through that?
I'm not.
Then don't bitch about it.
Can I add to that?
And then I do want to respond to that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I want to hear what you have to say.
100%.
Well, I so much agree with this.
I was having a conversation with a girl yesterday.
She goes, so what do you do for work?
I'm like, well, she's like, is the value tame what you do?
I go, no, I have a financial firm that I run.
And that's where I make the majority of my money.
And I do the value tainment thing on the side, which is now turning into a full-on career at this point, right?
But it didn't start out that way.
It started off as a little side hustle interviewing people.
She goes, well, where do you find the time to do two careers?
I go, well, if you care that much, there's a lot of things I had to eliminate.
I don't watch football on Sundays anymore.
I don't have a TV anymore.
I don't watch Netflix anymore.
I don't really go out and party all that much anymore, except for, you know, occasionally.
But because what I value so much of what we're doing here at Valutainement, I'm like, fuck it.
It's worth another 40 hours a week and doing this and toggling between two things because I believe in that so much.
But that's because that's something that I believe in that I want to do.
Again, personal responsibility, not to put yourself out there.
We talked about this beginning.
You're getting married, right?
It's a crystal.
Congratulations.
You found love.
That's amazing.
She has three kids.
You're about to be a stepfather, three kids.
So God forbid something happens with one of the kids.
God forbid.
I hope it doesn't.
Suck it up, kid.
Okay.
Or Sunday.
Or God forbid that you guys end up kind of living paycheck to paycheck because you got to put three kids through private school, but it's worth it.
Is anybody, should anybody feel bad for you that you don't have more money than you possibly could because you're marrying somebody with three kids?
You signed up for this is my point.
And that's great.
And that's awesome.
I wish you the most amazing life ever.
But for me, I'm saying, I don't know.
If times get tough, it's because you kind of signed up to having three kids, and that's your decision.
I respect that.
Versus the person that's like, you know what?
I'm not marrying somebody with no kids.
I don't want the responsibility.
I'm going to start my own family and start at once.
But you made those decisions.
And that's what I love about America is you get to pick the life that you want and carve out what you want from life.
So let me respond to all that.
Yeah, of course.
First of all, if people want to choose to go further to do something that's full-time or beyond full-time, they want to choose to have a family.
They want to choose to be a soldier.
They want to choose to be in the NFL, which means you're going to have to work on Sunday.
Obviously, I'm 100% agreeing with all that.
You're talking to a guy who, when I first started, I literally worked shit from 10 a.m. in the morning to like 2 a.m. at night, six days a week, every day.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yes.
So now.
Now, here's the difference, though.
So that was a choice on my part to try to go after this.
I think the disconnect here is there was a poll that came out years ago, which found I think the number was 18% of Americans feel quote unquote engaged at work.
So in other words, only about 18% of Americans like their job.
What do you do in a system where the majority of the jobs are jobs people don't really want to do, don't like doing, but we need these jobs in order for society to function.
And that's where the conversation we were having before comes in.
What should the norm be for the way we structure our economy?
Should people have to work?
For example, before unions came around, people would work six days a week, seven days a week.
And then eventually we earned the right, hey, we're only going to work five days a week.
And that became the default.
That became the norm.
So again, if you want to choose to do something, by all means, go right ahead.
I chose to work more than just, you know, five days a week.
But before I said I was going to go further, yeah, I'll go one step further.
I think the norm should be a four-day work week.
And there's been a number of pilot studies on this where you have people work four days a week and they're doing one in the UK.
They're doing a bunch of different places.
Now in Portugal, too.
And so the productivity in these companies, many of them stayed the same.
And some of them, the productivity even went up.
Because it turns out when you focus on something for maybe a shorter amount of time, but you give your all to it in that shorter amount of time, it's better than just sort of doing it nonstop without the leisure time to sort of recharge your batteries.
I've seen a lot of those studies.
I think a lot of them do have validity.
So the point is, like, you can just pull that out of your ass.
I've seen a lot of that.
Yeah, yeah.
So anyway, if people want to choose to go further, 100% on favor, in board, on board with that.
But I would also say I think the default should be a four-day workweek.
And I think, again, I don't think it's a controversial statement.
I think most people agree.
In fact, I think you guys in your heart of hearts probably agree with this.
If you work full-time, you should make enough money to survive.
That's not too much.
I'm not saying give everybody a Maserati and $2 million if you put in the bare minimum.
That's fucking crazy.
What I'm saying is if you work full-time, you should make enough money to survive.
And I fully agree with you.
And then the four-day workweek, there's a lot of people that are doing that.
A lot of companies are starting to do that remote, not remote.
But there's some people out there that you're like, take your four-day work week and shove it up your ass.
I want to work six, seven days a week, and I want to build something.
Work till you get it.
And those things.
And those people, when they end up making a million dollars at $10 million or $100 million, they shouldn't have to pay the price or pay more than the person who's like, look, just let me do my four days and I'm out.
Wait, could you repeat that?
I'm saying those people who choose to sacrifice and work seven days a week, even though the bare minimum is four days, those people shouldn't have to pay more in taxes or have to feel the brunt of society or their kids have to bear the responsibility of that.
Yeah, I believe that because they chose to live a more they wanted to have a bigger life.
Yeah, well, I mean, our core disagreement there is going to be, I believe in a progressive tax system.
I don't know.
Do you believe in a flat tax too?
Is that your idea?
I think that's a good idea.
Well, I think the tax code at the end of the day is so freaking complicated.
Anything you could do to simplify that would be ideal.
That we totally agree.
I would get rid of every single loophole deduction, make that actual rate on paper, make the nominal rate and the effective rate the exact same.
I don't like this thing where it's like your nominal rate is this, but after we factor in all these 47-complicated.
Keep it simple.
You can play with the KISS principle.
Yes.
Keep it simple.
100%.
And that's exactly what the tax code is.
Let's get, we're about to wrap up here to finish up the podcast.
This has been great.
Yeah, what you just said right there when you're saying, you know, the four-day, you know, throwing that part in there, some people are already doing this.
Nothing new.
That's been going on for quite a few years.
And even what social media has allowed people to do is to make the four-hour workday more realistic.
I think Tim Ferriss wrote a book about it called The Four Hour Workday.
I never read that.
Did you ever read that?
I never read it.
It's not what I subscribe to, but there are people that like that.
And there are people that enjoy that lifestyle.
For me, here's how I allot it when I sit down and typically look at what a person, let's just say you do a four-hour work, a four-day work week.
What are you going to do with the other three days?
What does the average person do with the additional three days?
You know what the average person, you know how much social media consumption is up or TV consumption or doing nothing with your life is up.
For me, I want to know what the best looks like for X, Y, Z, whoever it is, for John, for Mary, for Jack.
I want to see that.
Now, do they want to see that or not?
That's a choice that they have to make.
It's not my option to force it down their throat.
Go give your best to see what your best looks like.
I don't give a shit about that.
No problem.
Enjoy your life.
But if you're not happy with the money you make, just figure out a way to increase your market value.
There's many different ways to make a living today in America, especially with these technology companies that we have.
So many different ways to make money.
Anyways, Kyle.
Can I give one more question to that?
Because I think you guys will actually, we'll end on a point of, I think, giant agreement, which is, so, you know, my job, I talk about politics, economics, news, give my opinion on it and everything.
But I do have a personal life philosophy that I abide by in my own life.
And I would recommend if, you know, if people like it, they give it a shot too.
I call it passionism, which is very similar to what you just described, which is I think you get the most happiness and meaning and joy out of life if you have a thing that you like and you give your all to it and you leave it all out there on the field.
And whatever that thing is, I don't care what it is.
If you want to build fucking, you know, toy sailboats, by all means, go ahead.
You want to give your all to a sport, by all means, go ahead.
If it's a particular profession that you enjoy, by all means, go ahead.
But find something that makes you happy, almost like innately, where you get excited when you hear about it for whatever reason.
You did it when you were a kid or you came to like when you were older.
Give your all to it.
Leave everything on the field.
And then you'll be surprised what can happen and where that could take you.
I mean, there's no promises.
It's one of the reasons why I like the idea of a four-day work week because some people, they just don't make money off of the thing that they love.
That's the unfortunate reality of the world that we live in.
So for those people, I want to give them enough time to expand their leisure, enjoy their time, do something they love, even if it's not their main economic pursuit in life.
But just give it your all and see where it takes you.
And I guarantee you at the end of the day, you'll be happier because with passionism, it's more about the process than it is the end goal.
It's not about like, okay, if I do X, Y, and Z, I'll get the million dollars or I'll get the women or I'll get what.
No, no, no.
The whole point of it is the beauty is in the process of it.
If you love something, you give your all to it.
You don't stop.
You'll be a much happier person just by going down that path.
Fully agree.
I get what you're saying.
For me, I subscribe to the 420 rule.
And I don't mean by smoking weed every day at 420, although that sounds pretty cool for many.
First 20 years, don't screw it up, man.
Just learn a little bit about life.
Second 20 years, make your money and really go make your money.
Third, 20 years, use that money to invest into your passions.
And then the last 20 years, go figure out a way to go contribute back to society, whether it's going to be charity, politics, service, whatever it is, education, but make your money.
Sometimes when you, I chase my passion part-time.
I chased retire my dad at a 99 cent store full-time.
I didn't grow up saying, I'm going to go sell life insurance for the rest of my life.
I did that because I saw that as a vehicle to allow my dad to no longer have to work because he worked at a 99 cent store for a long time.
Side, you know, pursued my passion non-stop, of course.
But sometimes the concept with passion alone distracts you from doing things that we only have to do because we like it.
Listen, a lot of things I've done in my life I did not like that has allowed me to do the things I'm doing now that I love and like a lot.
But there's going to be a phase that you're going to go through that you're not going to with kids.
I love having a conversation I'm having with my 10-year-old son.
I love the conversations today.
I love the conversation with my nine-year-old son.
It's an incredible conversation today.
There's a lot of times that I didn't enjoy what I was doing as a father.
It was a very annoying thing that I was going through.
Anyways, Kyle, this has been a blast.
Adam, I enjoyed you guys also having a banter together.
It was purely class out of everybody that was here.
I had a great time.
We can't wait to have you back on again.
Appreciate your philosophy.
Appreciate you coming out here and giving your ideas to it.
Guys, if you enjoyed it, give it a sub to the channel.
Also, Rob, can we put a link to his channel as well, both in the chat and in the description for them to go find this comment?
He's got a lot of different things, opinions on a lot of different things he talks about.
If you didn't catch it, he's also got a sense of humor.
He's a funny, witty, sarcastic guy, which is my kind of the humor that I like.
But Kyle, appreciate you for coming out.
Guys, it was a great place.
This was a blast.
Yes.
Thank you very much.
I think we're doing a podcast again tomorrow.
No, we're doing tomorrow.
Home team.
Zenner's going to be here.
Sam Sorbo.
I think.
Yes, no, you give me a weird look.
Well, that's just his face.
Okay, we'll figure it out.
We'll figure out what's going to happen.
Anyways, we're doing a podcast tomorrow.
We got like 60 topics to go through tomorrow on it.
