PBD - Patrick Bet-David - PBD Podcast | Ep. 117 | Special Guest: Rashad Evans

Jan. 20, 2022 - PBD - Patrick Bet-David

01:53:10

PBD Podcast | Ep. 117 | Special Guest: Rashad Evans

FaceTime or Ask Patrick any questions on https://minnect.com/ PBD Podcast Episode 117. In this episode, Patrick Bet-David is joined by UFC Legend Rashad Evans, Gerard Michaels, Tom Ellsworth and Adam Sosnick. About guests: Rashad Anton Evans is an American mixed martial artist. Evans started his professional career in 2003, he was the Heavyweight winner of The Ultimate Fighter 2 and is also a former UFC Light Heavyweight Champion, and a 2019 inductee of the UFC Hall of Fame. Connect with him on Instagram here: https://bit.ly/31ZuOLq Gerard Michaels is an award-winning Writer, Director, Actor, Podcaster and Comedian with over 40 million views online. Follow him on Instagram here: https://bit.ly/3fMja9z Thomas N. Ellsworth is a strategy and marketing expert with a track record of success within high-tech start-ups and Fortune 500 companies. He has spent nearly two decades dedicating himself to being a mentor to his staff and colleagues. Connect with him on Twitter here: https://bit.ly/3pvFrLT Adam “Sos” Sosnick has lived a true rags to riches story. He hasn’t always been an authority on money. Follow Adam on Instagram: https://bit.ly/2PqllTj. You can also check out his weekly SOSCAST here: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLw4s_zB_R7I0VW88nOW4PJkyREjT7rJic Download the podcasts on all your favorite platforms https://bit.ly/3sFAW4N Get all official Valuetainment merch here: https://vtmerch.com Text: PODCAST to 310.340.1132 to get added to the distribution list PBD Podcast discusses current events, trending topics, and politics as they relate to life and business. Stay tuned for new episodes and guest appearances. Connect with Patrick on social media: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/patrickbetdavid/ Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/patrickbetdavid Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/PatrickBetDavid.Valuetainment About the host: Patrick Bet-David is the founder and CEO of a financial services firm and the creator of Valuetainment, the #1 YouTube channel for entrepreneurship with more than 3 million subscribers. He is the author of the #1 Wall Street Journal bestseller Your Next Five Moves (Simon & Schuster) and a keynote speaker. Bet-David is passionate about shaping the next generation of leaders by teaching the fundamentals of entrepreneurship and personal development while inspiring people to break free from limiting beliefs to achieve their dreams. Follow the guests in this episode: Rashad Evans: https://bit.ly/31ZuOLq Adam Sosnick: https://bit.ly/2PqllTj Gerard Michaels: https://bit.ly/3fMja9z Tom Ellsworth: https://bit.ly/3pvFrLT To reach the Valuetainment team you can email: info@valuetainment.com Want Patrick on your podcast? - http://bit.ly/329MMGB #PBDPodcast 00:00 - Start 2:11 - How Rashad Became A fighter 8:49 - How To Make your Name As A Fighter In 2022 15:48 - Rashad Evans Gives His Thoughts On Rampage Jackson & Brendan Schaub 19:48 - Switching From An Offensive To A Defensive Mindset 26:27 - How Can Dana White Better Take Care of Fighters 35:22 - Does Francis Have A Right To Be Paid More? 41:33 - The mega-fight of the Decade 46:24 - Rashad Evans Top 5 54:00 - Jon Jones 1:03:50 - Rashad Evans On Getting A New Perspective 1:10:04 - Rashad Evans Is A Fan Of The Pauls; Difference Between Boxing & UFC 1:19:55 - Jon Jones Change His Life? 1:32:49 - Rashad In A Street Fight 1:35:20 - Is Connor McGregor FINISHED? 1:38:01 - Jorge Masvidal Street Fight 1:43:41 - Paul Gets Punched By Rashad Evans

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	Gentlemen, we're live.
	All right, so we have a special podcast for you here today.
	It's the ultimate fighter 2 heavyweight winner, the former UFC light heavyweight champion, 2019 inducted into the UFC Hall of Fame, the one and only Rashad Evans.
	Brother, it's good to have you on, man.
	Thank you.
	Thank you for having me on, guys.
	Yes, it's very good to have you on.
	You know, I got to tell you guys a story yesterday.
	David texts me over and over and over again.
	He says, Pat, I totally understand Gerard being in this podcast, maybe even Adam, but I don't think Tom fits for this podcast.
	He's like, What's Tom going to talk about?
	And I said, Listen, let him be in there.
	You know, Tom's going to maybe give a different perspective, but it's good to be with you.
	Folks, if you're tuning in, Paul Escarcega, who's one of our wonderful, fantastic editors who is a great team player and creates jobs for other people.
	But he, Paul, got punched in the face by Chuck LaDell.
	You keep forgetting his name.
	He got punched in the face by Chuck LaVelle a couple years ago.
	We went to his house and he wanted to find out how hard Chuck hit.
	So he put the headgear on, he put the gloves on.
	Chuck hit him and he was gone for a minute, right?
	Oh, man.
	So he's trying to find out whether you punch harder or he does.
	And you said you're committed to it.
	Yeah, I'm committed to it.
	But here's the thing.
	Like, I don't want to hurt the dude.
	I mean, like, maybe don't go 100%.
	Okay, okay.
	Just give him a nice little bit of a little bit of a fancy.
	Give him one for him to feel.
	Just for him to have some memories of you when you leave.
	This is David.
	Go 150%.
	David and Paul got into it, so he'd like to see you knock his ass out.
	Anyway, so Paul, Brace for Impact.
	We're going to do that in the second half.
	And then we're going to watch Masvedal street fighting video and get some feedback from you, maybe even a commentary of what you see with a guy like this fighting.
	Because I know he's got a fight coming up, right?
	He's got a fight coming up with Kobe.
	Curious to know what you think about that.
	He's got a fight coming up.
	Yeah, I know.
	He's got also a fight coming up, of course.
	But, you know, that right there, because of Masvedal also with Kobe going out, it would be curious to know what he says about it.
	So, Rashad, I've been to a lot of fights, but you had a fight coming up, and I followed your fights.
	You were something else, man, watching your fight.
	We're the same age.
	I think you and I are maybe a year apart.
	I don't know exactly how old you are.
	I'm 43.
	So, same era.
	I'm watching.
	You're coming up.
	I'm just watching how you're fighting.
	My buddy, Elaine Cooper, who was one of our VPs in a company, I took him to the fight.
	It's his birthday yesterday, but happy birthday, Len Cooper.
	Took him to go watch you and Jackson fight, which was insane to go watch you fight.
	But walk us through the past, man, how you got into it.
	Everybody's got a different story, how they get into the UFC.
	What's your story coming up?
	Well, I was in Lansing, Michigan, and I was working at this bar, and I was just graduated from college, and I was doing a little bit of bouncing work, and a fight broke out.
	And I was a UFC fan back in the day, and I used to watch it back in 1993 when it first came out.
	So it went through that dark area where not a lot of people knew about it and knew what was going on with it.
	And a fight broke out, and the guy was like, oh, man, he put him in a rear-naked choke.
	Now, when he said that, it kind of like, I was like, oh, okay, not many people know what that was.
	So then I started to inquire, you know, okay, you know, how'd you know what that was?
	And then he said that he trains in HB because it was called No Holes Bar at the time.
	And I was like, okay, where you do that at?
	And he told me where he did it at.
	And, you know, we went to the gym the following Monday and it was this beat down, run down, like dilapidated building, and it had rats and stuff in it.
	And we go in there, this building, and I'm thinking I'm about to get set up and robbed.
	I'm like, oh, man, this don't seem safe at all.
	In Michigan, in Michigan, Atlantis, Michigan.
	It was just like a very seedy area.
	And we go to the room where they're training at.
	And it's a little small room, like 12 by 9.
	And these guys are just beating the hell out of each other.
	They're just like taking turns, you know, going against each other, just like full-on sparring.
	Just nothing I ever seen before.
	So I went and I tried it that day, and I was like hooked.
	So I kept on going there and kept training with those guys.
	And then after a while, you know, we just got tired of beating the hell out of each other.
	And it was like a real-life fight club.
	Like, you know, it was like doctors, lawyers, and like underground type of guys.
	Yeah, and that's what we'll do for training.
	But we were just beating the hell out of each other.
	So we wanted some new meat.
	And we started to, we linked up with Dan Severn.
	And Dan Severn was in Coldwater, Michigan.
	So we started driving out to Coldwater, Michigan and training with those guys.
	Now, at the time, Dan Severn was doing.
	his fight promotion, which was in Indiana, Angolan, Indiana, and on the Indian reservations because the UFC at the time was only allowed to be in Vegas.
	And Dan was like, I'm going to have the only show outside of Vegas, you know?
	So we would fight on these Indian reservations.
	And Dan Severn was inducted into the UFC Hall of Fame.
	And then he said to me, I have an opportunity to have one of my, you know, they'll look at one of my guys.
	But the thing about it is, you know, have you heard of the Ultimate Fighter?
	And I was like, yeah, I heard of the Ultimate Fighter.
	I watched the first season.
	And then he says, okay, well, they're doing a second season, but it's heavyweights though.
	And he said, you're way too small.
	You're like, you know, 195 pounds.
	And I was like, I can be heavyweight.
	So I just started eating a lot of carbs and just balking up as big as I could get.
	And, you know, I got on the Ultimate Fighter Show.
	And from there, I won the Ultimate Fighter Show.
	And then that was how my UFC career started.
	But it was, you know, started in Lansing, Michigan.
	Now, were you a fight?
	Like, if we're in high school, did you have a reputation for a guy that don't mess with Rashad?
	Did you have that kind of reputation?
	Yeah, I'll be there.
	I'd scrap it in high school.
	At what age did people know?
	Like, at what age you knew you could fight?
	Oh, man, probably like in probably like in fifth grade.
	I was fighting in fifth grade.
	You were that dude in fifth grade that's like, oh, he's going to roll up on you in fifth grade.
	Well, I mean, because I went to like a majority white school.
	Kicked all those white boys ass.
	Well, I was always a target.
	You know what I'm saying?
	You know, they always say stuff.
	So, I mean, I would fight on the way home from school, walking home from school.
	My brother would make me fight people.
	He would make you fight people.
	Yeah, he'd tell me to fight him.
	In what ways?
	He said, hey, that guy said something to you, go fight him or what?
	Yeah, I mean, if like somebody looked at me a certain way, he'd be like, yo, go fight him.
	I'm an older brother.
	Older brother.
	And if I didn't fight that guy, then he'll beat me up.
	Was he a fighter?
	Was he a tough guy himself?
	He was a tough guy.
	Sounds like he was more like a promoter, Don Kingback.
	He's like, all right, go fight that guy.
	Take his lunch, money.
	And you can beat that guy when I'm here next week.
	Is it because you were scared of your older brother and didn't want him to whoop your ass?
	Was it just like you had that itch inside?
	What was that relationship with your brother?
	Well, I mean, you know, I was scared of my older brother, but at the same time, him and I will fight all the time, you know?
	And, you know, we just, we just grew up fighting.
	How many years older is he than you?
	He's two years older than us.
	This is like Tico and Dylan.
	So Dylan yesterday for the first time said something very weird to me.
	And, you know, he's taking classes right now.
	He's going to Bara three times a week, two times a week.
	His middle son is just a swim every day.
	And he's now doing soccer.
	He's doing all these other things.
	Like just one of these guys that's very athletic.
	Like you see him, you're going to say, Sarah's going to play something, right?
	The Middle Eastern bojo.
	But he just loves, like, he loves fighting.
	Like, there's something about it that he likes.
	He's eight years old.
	First time he's ever said something like this.
	He says, Dad, one day I'm going to be the greatest fighter in the world.
	I said, what?
	He's never said I'm going to be the greatest anything.
	Just out of nowhere, he just said, Daddy, you know what?
	I want to also learn how to box.
	I want to also learn how to do this.
	So by the way, you got to keep this in mind.
	We don't watch videos.
	We don't sit here and say, let's watch this fight video.
	Let's watch this YouTube video.
	This guy's taking barracks.
	His coach has inspired him.
	And he says, I want to be the best fighter in the world one day.
	So I don't know if it starts there or not.
	Obviously, a lot of kids probably have said this before, but he has that.
	Can I say one thing about Dylan?
	We're making him sound like he's some asshole, tough, like the sweetest, the nicest kid.
	So the fact that he wants to be the number, makes no sense because he's.
	It's almost like you.
	You're such a sweet, nice guy, at least from what I can tell so far.
	Well, when Paul comes here, different side is going to show up.
	It's interesting.
	How do you balance the sugar, the sweet side with just knocking mofos out?
	How does that duopoly work?
	Well, I mean, it's, you know, it's I'd save whatever bothers me in life and I just leave it for the training.
	You know, I learned that at a young age to kind of, you know, learn how to put my frustrations into sports and things like that.
	So now it just becomes second nature to me.
	So outside in real life, you know, I'm just kind of calm and just relaxed and I can take a lot of shit.
	And then when it comes to a switch.
	It's a switch, yeah.
	So, okay, so let's go through one question that I had for you.
	So when you're 22, so when you were 32, you fought John, who was 24.
	Am I saying that correctly?
	Was 32 to 24.
	And his reach was 84 and a half.
	I want to say you were 75.
	You know, weight, obviously the same.
	Height, he had you on, you know, whatever, however many interests he has you on, because he's a taller guy.
	He's a 6'45.
	But he came through.
	You were like an older brother.
	So you haven't seen a different side of him.
	He's nice right now.
	Believe me, Rashad's got a different side of his highlights.
	But I'm not talking true.
	But I want to go back and ask a question here about coming up.
	So if you were 22 today and you know you can ball, you know you can hang in there.
	You know, like, listen, I think I can take this guy down.
	I think I can fight this guy.
	But the comp structure and the opportunities are different today than they were when you were 22, right?
	You're seeing this whole thing with Jake Paul and Dana going back and forth and, hey, pay him this and pay him that.
	And you're seeing what Jake is making.
	You're seeing what Woodley made with a fight.
	You're seeing what Mayweather is doing, what Connor did.
	So the model is different.
	You got boxing route.
	You got the YouTube route.
	You got the UFC route.
	How different of a game plan would you have today with your wisdom today being 42, 20 years older than me, 22?
	What would you tell the 22-year-old Rashad Evans today which route to take?
	Well, I mean, it's all about now getting a following.
	You know, we live in such a culture right now where it's all about the following and getting the people's interests, whatever it may be that you do that stands out among the crowd, accentuate that and really stand upon that and really start to push yourself in that direction.
	And then from there, you know, you can start to navigate which fights that you want because, you know, the promotion or whatever it may be, they're going to make sure that they put you in a position where they can get the return for your value because it's all about the value.
	You know, people want to pay you for what you're value for.
	If you don't have that value, you can be the best fighter in the world, but you're not going to get that money.
	So in other words, would you say you'd be somebody that'd be documenting your vlogs, your fights, your training to get a YouTube channel, to get a few million subscribers, and then maybe have some of the Instagram?
	How would you create that following?
	Would you take the Jake Paul route?
	Would you take the Logan Paul route?
	Would you take the Connor route?
	What route would you take?
	You know, there's somebody doing it really well right now, Sugar Sean O'Malley.
	He's sick.
	Stole your nickname.
	Yeah, but that's all right, bro.
	We're going to run up on that.
	It's all right, though, because the thing about it is he's owning it.
	You know what I'm saying?
	He's making it his own.
	And, you know, this kid, if you watch him, you know.
	Can you pull him up so people know who he is?
	Crazy hair, white boy skinny.
	Crazy hair, white boy skinny.
	But he's a very interesting character.
	He's fun to look at.
	He's fun to look at, but he's got personality, and he just comes to life.
	And what he does is not only does he talk a good game, he fights like crazy.
	He knocks people out, even though I feel like his level of competition should be a bit higher.
	But that's what happens when you have that following.
	When you have that following, they bring you along the right way because they don't want to ruin you in order before they get the full value out of you.
	And that's one thing that he does really well.
	He's really good on social media.
	He's really good with his YouTube, breaking down fights and all those things.
	And he just has the interest that, you know, he speaks to the demographic of today and the huge following.
	So you would advise you would, like, you yourself would still go the UFC route.
	You would still go to UFC route yourself if you were 22 today, except you would pay more attention to the social media following.
	Or would you say, I'm going to go try to get part of a, you know, Galajoya camp.
	I'm going to go part of the Canelo camp.
	I'm going to go try to be a boxer because that just pays more.
	You know, Canelo got a 12-fight, $360 million auto contract, whatever the number was.
	Some insane number that he got, right?
	I'm going to go take that route.
	Or no, I'm going to work my way up on the UFC side and be the next whoever.
	What route would you take?
	I would say go to UFC route because of the fact that, yeah, well, because with boxing is that, you know, for so long before you can even get to that level, I mean, Jake Paul has been able to do something extraordinary because of the fact that he's built himself up way high before he even put himself in a position to box.
	So that's like an anomaly out of the whole situation.
	But, you know, with the UFC, you know, you can start off and really grow in an organization.
	And if you're like a guy like Sean O'Malley, they'll bring you along the way and you can develop your skills at the same time, you know, by and develop who you are outside of the cage as well, too.
	Yeah, I'm just very, very curious because, you know, a lot of young guys see everybody and they're kind of like, what do I do now?
	Yeah.
	What route do I go now?
	So, you know, you've seen Jake, you know, what was it?
	Did you see the number that came out?
	Highest paid athlete under 25.
	Did you see that?
	$40 million he made?
	$45 million he made last year.
	Highest paid athlete.
	No, go to the one right now.
	I want to see Gerard versus Jake Paul.
	I want to see that.
	Highest paid athlete under 25.
	Type in under 25 five days ago, right there.
	Go back.
	No, that's five years ago.
	Go back.
	It's the one right there.
	Jake Paul, put news.
	Go type in in the news.
	Yeah, because it's right there.
	Click on that one right at the top.
	Go up.
	It should show the list of people.
	Go under the ads.
	Right there.
	Click on that.
	Is that the one or no?
	No, because he's not a female.
	Go back.
	Not yet.
	Go up.
	Go.
	Go.
	Keep going.
	Anyways, he made 45 million bucks last year.
	That's the number.
	They put him as a highest paid athlete under the age of 25.
	Get his tweet right there if you go down below.
	What did he say?
	Highest paid athlete under 25.
	Jake Paul.
	It's an unsustainable model, though, because not everybody can get in the ring and actually take punches.
	It's a very, very, the promotional side of it.
	You're talking about Sugar Shane O'Malley.
	And, you know, the thing that Sugar Shane O'Malley has is world-class striking skills.
	He's not just a clown out there.
	You know, and they've done this with other guys, with all due respect.
	I mean, you know, they tried this with Sage Northcutt, right?
	Like, they were like, this guy's going to be Captain America.
	And then they got him in the ring.
	And what happened?
	Right.
	So, I mean, it takes a very, very special type of human being that wants to get in there.
	And it's not just the, I mean, he'll tell you better than anybody else.
	It's not the nine minutes in the ring.
	It's the nine weeks of sparring leading up to it.
	And if you don't do that, you know, so I mean, you're, when you first were coming up with Dan Severn, that's crazy, man.
	I mean, you know, did you ever consider like the K-1 stuff and the pride fighting and going overseas and all that also and doing the Grand Prix?
	Yeah, I actually wanted to do that, to do that first.
	You know, I was a big fan of Rampage at the time, and I was a big fan of the whole, you know, the whole Japanese market when it came to the pride fighting.
	And I like the rules of kicking each other in the head when they're down.
	It felt like that was my style.
	It felt like it was my style, but the UFC came first and it was just, you know, a better opportunity because the UFC was growing at the time.
	You know, the first season of Ultimate Fighter was really the birth on a, you know, a big level for the UFC, you know, when it comes to popularity and just coming out of the dark ages of not knowing who it was, you know, not knowing what it was.
	So being on the second season, I felt like I was part of something at the ground level.
	And just being part of the UFC growing with them was been a huge experience.
	And you won the second season, right?
	Yeah.
	And when were you at the end of the day?
	Heavy won championship as a light heavyweight, but he won.
	When were you the coach?
	Season 10.
	Season 10.
	And the other coach was Rampage.
	And you had Brendan Schaub on your team who was on the podcast recently.
	So quick questions.
	I see Rampage.
	I know you beat his ass.
	That guy's got like the scariest looking face ever.
	Like, I see that guy.
	I don't mess with that guy.
	Just quick thoughts on Rampage and you guys got into it.
	And then also Brendan Schaub, who was on the podcast.
	Thoughts on his career?
	Yeah, me and Rampage, it was a very highly hot season.
	And, you know, him and I, we'll go to the point where we'll fight every single day, you know, to the point where the production staff was like, hey, guys, I know you don't like each other, but, you know, you guys got to find a way to calm down a little bit because we got to be able to shoot the scenes and stuff like that.
	Because it was just like first time in the history of reality television, the production staff is like, why don't you guys not?
	It was just unruly sometimes.
	It'll get bad.
	The talking, though.
	Yeah, the tracking.
	You guys weren't fighting.
	You guys were talking smash.
	But it came to a couple times where it was almost like we were going to fight.
	The famous Door scene.
	Yeah, the famous Door scene.
	Yeah, so it got pretty contested quite a bit.
	But that season was probably the funnest season of the Ultimate Fighter.
	And, you know, looking back on it.
	Shell Wanderlay.
	I can't let you get close.
	I mean, that was a good one, too.
	They actually fought.
	They actually scrapped that one.
	But, I mean, the one with me and Rampage, it was good because, you know, it built up from the Ultimate Fighter season.
	Then he didn't fight me because he had that movie with the A-team.
	And then we ended up fighting.
	So it was a little bit more of a buildup to the actual fight.
	And it was a good fight, you know.
	But now, me and Rampage, we got a chance to actually do a movie together.
	We did a movie together called Boss Level.
	We played German twins.
	So we kind of got the chance to speak about what happened before.
	You said German twins?
	German twins.
	We were German twins.
	Do you have a good German accent?
	What do you got?
	Not at all.
	You don't want to fight some rampage.
	And then what about Schaub?
	Brendan Schaub, you know, I knew Brendan Schaub back in the day when he was first starting off with mixed martial arts.
	You know, we would train out in Denver with Trevor Whitman and Nate Marcourt and those guys.
	You know, it was like Jackson's gym.
	And then we'll go to Colorado and train at Grudge Gym and go to TriStar.
	So we would go and train with Brendan Schaub when he was first starting off.
	And when I found out I was going to do the Ultimate Fighter season, I really a strong advocate for getting him into the show.
	And Brendan was phenomenal, man.
	Brendan was like, you know, a diamond in a rough.
	He just didn't know how good he was.
	He was one of those guys who I honestly believe had he not went on a streak where he got caught a couple times, he could have been somebody who really done something for the DOC.
	Yeah, Brendan was good, man.
	Brendan was good, man.
	I know he had that tough talk with Joe Rogan when Joe Rogan told him to sit down.
	But, you know, it's in the heavyweight division, you can get caught and knocked out.
	It's very easy for that to happen.
	And at some point, you have to modify your game.
	You have to be able to understand the fact that you can't sit there and exchange blows like you can at a smaller weight class.
	So you have to be able to use different tactics.
	I mean, throwing some punches and doing a little bit of cage wall and brawl and kind of just gumming up the action a little bit more and not doing so much of the standing at the 50-50 and see who lands first.
	Well, Rashad, let me ask you that.
	I mean, you came from a brawling background.
	I always thought you came from a wrestling background.
	But if you came from a brawling background, you know, one of the most impressive things is when a fighter switches it and they go from being able to inflict damage to being able to not let someone inflict damage.
	I mean, one of the things with Floyd Mayweather, I think is one of the most impressive things he never gets credit for.
	This guy for 20 years had the best in the world trying to hurt him.
	And he just wouldn't let them.
	Defense.
	He was completely, that's like the art of it, right?
	So, I mean, when did you in your career go from switching that mentality from like, dude, I can hurt these dudes to, you know what, these guys can't hurt me.
	I know exactly what to do to stop them from getting me.
	Well, I started to use all my attributes.
	You know, at one point, you know, you kind of fall into the style because you coach by different people and you want to do, you know, what they're telling you to do.
	But then you have to realize what makes you unique.
	And what made me unique was the fact that I was able to move.
	You know, I was very shifty.
	Very high energy at that point.
	Very high energy.
	So I utilized my movement more.
	And then when I could, I'll utilize my grappling and, you know, jam up the action.
	So I wasn't sitting there just throwing punches with these big dudes.
	Because at the end of the day, you get caught with one of those big shots and you're not going to be standing for too long.
	You get caught by too many because these four-ounce gloves are very, you know, not much padding in them at all.
	And then underneath the four-ounce gloves, it's like you have a cast on because your hands are wrapped.
	So it's a very strong game.
	You just saw that with Stipe and Nganu, right?
	Like, I mean, Stipe is trying to control the pace and Ngano's just waiting.
	All he needs is that one right hand.
	And especially with a guy like Nganu, he got that accidental power where he just like, he just moves around and he just knocks and you knocked him.
	Is that the baddest man on the planet right now, Nganu?
	Yeah, I mean, he is, man.
	Nganu is something special.
	That's your number one baddest man on the planet right now.
	I would say so.
	I mean, but he has a very tough fight with Cereal Gunner.
	So let me go back to the questions.
	I was trying to get to a point there.
	The question was, what do you think about what's going on right now between Jake and Dana?
	You know, Jake is being Jake.
	You know, Jake brings up a lot of good points, but at the same time, you know, it's a different ballgame, you know what I'm saying, with mixed martial arts.
	There are some things that, you know, does need to get better with mixed martial arts when it comes for advocating rights for fighters and things like that.
	But I think the UFC has done a very good job of where they came from and where they're getting to right now.
	You know, we forget that all these other sports, you know, they've had a long time to get to where they are right now, you know, baseball, football, the big three.
	And it just takes time.
	You know, the UFC is moving in a progressive manner.
	I don't believe that the UFC holds their fighters down.
	I think that, you know, they take care of the fighters.
	You know, could fighters pay be better?
	Yeah, I think so, you know, but at the end of the day, there are fighters who make crazy bank fighting with the UFC.
	And, you know, when it comes to the pay that's even distributed between the non, you know, non-big name fighters, I think that it's very comparable to boxing and other leagues like that, too.
	You know, you know, Gerard made a very good point yesterday.
	He got me thinking.
	You know how they say people get paid more paid in boxing than they do in UFC, right?
	Okay.
	So I pulled it up.
	I'm like, let me see this here.
	Top 10 highest paid boxers.
	I don't know what it is.
	Joseph Parker is number 10.
	Okay.
	Highest paid boxer.
	And blah, Let's see.
	He made $3 million, okay, guaranteed purse, 2018.
	He made $10 million.
	Last year.
	Yeah, I mean, then it's Michael Hunter, who has an estimated net worth of $3 million.
	He's the ninth highest paid boxer in the world in 2021.
	So the ninth highest guy made $3 million.
	Then you got the next guy.
	Then you got the next guy, next guy, and it goes all the way up to the top, Anthony Joshua, who made $125 million in 2018, and he got a big offer for what he's going to get paid.
	Tyson Fury's not even first place.
	He's second place.
	Wilder is third place, right?
	And then you got some of these other guys.
	Obviously, Canelo is going to be number one.
	Well, Canelo is number one, but you look at somebody's list here.
	Canelo is what, $360 or whatever they're paying that guy?
	2022.
	Let's look at the number here.
	If you can pull up 2022 highest-paid boxers, I'm actually very curious if you match the two up.
	I'm willing to bet the highest-paid UFC fighter makes more money than the highest-paid boxer, right?
	If you match the two.
	So there is an argument.
	And then the other part is the following is, are there more UFC fights than actual boxing fights that we watch on TV?
	100%.
	There's more UFC fights.
	And here's another thing, the fact that, you know, if I'm a fighter and I'm getting paid a certain amount, I can put in my contract, I want this amount to be disclosed.
	And then I can have the UFC pay me whatever else outside of that.
	You know what I'm saying?
	So I don't have to have all of my money being disclosed.
	Explain that.
	Why?
	Like every NBA contract, MLB contract, NFL contract, it's pretty much disclosed.
	Why in the UFC is there non-disclosure?
	So the UFC, they pay the commission and the commission pays the fighters, right?
	So I can have the UFC say that I make this amount of money and have them pay me that and give the commission that, but I can actually be getting paid a little bit more on the back end, you know, and just in just another way.
	You know what I'm saying?
	What's the back end way?
	What is that?
	So the back end way would be like, so say my contract was for like $3 million.
	Say, okay, I want $1 million to be shown, but then pay me the other $2 million.
	Give that to Tom.
	Go ahead.
	Pay me the other $2 million just through the UFC.
	So that can happen.
	So you don't always have to have all your money being shown, the amount you can pay.
	Yeah, Tom, can you do me a favor?
	To me, businesses get criticism for how they run a certain model.
	Can you find out what is UFC's EBITDA?
	Like, what's their margin?
	Like, if they do, I don't know, $4 billion, do they keep 40%?
	Do they keep 10%?
	Did they keep 20%?
	If you can pull up that number.
	This is why we got the biz doc.
	Yeah, no, no, I think that's very important because business got to run a margin and you got to have, you know, the numbers around 20%.
	If UFC, like, you know how some of these software companies you'll talk to, yeah, we've consulted quite a few of them.
	They'll have a software and they'll do $10 million a year.
	But it's a software.
	I'm just giving you the software.
	So I don't need to really do anything else.
	And their margins are 60%, right?
	You got a lot of money.
	You can maybe pay your engineers better.
	But if you're running a business with operations set up, this, this, that, and your margins are only 20%, a business has got to make their 20%.
	So meaning whatever Dana and those guys have done has worked and it's made a lot of people rich.
	Can they improve in certain ways?
	If they could, what would you say would be a way they could improve it?
	Jake made his proposal saying take the $12,000 to $50,000, you know, health benefits, et cetera, et cetera.
	What would you say as a UFC Hall of Famer?
	Yeah, I mean, health benefits would be one, but I mean, I would also say, you know, some kind of portion of the money for the retirement, you know what I'm saying?
	For fighters who are done fighting, you know.
	Sort of 401k.
	Okay, IRA profit share.
	Okay, so say, for instance, it's like, you know, if I'm a fighter and I get paid for a pay-per-view, I should get paid anytime that that fight is being shown, even after I'm retired.
	You know what I'm saying?
	And I feel like that could make it better.
	Like, for instance, like anytime they show a Brashad Evans fight, I should be able to.
	Is that how does unboxing?
	Does boxing do that?
	No, I don't think boxing does it like that.
	But I'm saying that's something that could help.
	That's something that could help out because they're still getting money to pay.
	Like the UFC is getting money to shoot.
	Licenses and other places.
	They're making some money on the bus.
	Yeah, so they're making money on it.
	So if they're making money on showing a Rashad Evans fight, then Rashad Evans, you get paid off of it.
	You know what I'm saying?
	Even if I'm not fighting a current fight that you see.
	When I was in LA, I was handling finances for a few NFL players, and they would all complain about retirement.
	And I would say, hey, they don't pay this.
	They don't pay that.
	They don't pay enough, right?
	And then, but at the same time, it was, hey, you know, I always watch how you take care of your champions.
	Okay.
	You can't take care of everybody, but how you take care of your champions.
	For example, like, you know, how people can say whatever they want to say about Mark Cuban and who he is.
	He takes care of his best guys.
	Look at Dirk.
	He's been taken care of for 20 years.
	Dirk's like, I can go a lot of different places.
	I love my boss.
	I'll work over here.
	The guy gives me what he wants.
	So he takes care of him, right?
	Do you think UFC takes care of their champions?
	Like, not everybody, because I can see how that can be watered down.
	And this guy's saying, give me this, and that guy's saying, give me this.
	But there is a system for guys who are champions, right?
	Do they do that?
	Is there benefits for you guys?
	Yeah, absolutely.
	I mean, you know, if I call Dana and ask him for anything, you know, he'd be like, yeah, absolutely.
	He seems like top devils.
	Yeah, he's that guy.
	Dana's, you know, he has a kind of persona out, you know, when you see him on camera.
	But, you know, Dana's one of the coolest guys you ever meet.
	And he's straight up.
	You know what I'm saying?
	Like, you may not like what he says, but you're going to know that he's speaking from the heart.
	You know what I'm saying?
	You're going to know where you stand with him.
	And I can always handle that.
	You know what I'm saying?
	I don't always got to like what somebody say, but if they're kind of, you know, shooting straight from the hips, then I can accept that.
	And Dana's one of those guys.
	So, and, you know, he does take care of his champions.
	You know, he makes sure that he does whatever he can.
	You know, he's one of those guys who does things and doesn't say anything about it.
	Like, people don't really know how generous Dana is and the things that he do because he's not one of those guys that say, oh, I did this.
	And he doesn't brag about it at all.
	He just does it.
	So would you say behind closed doors?
	Like Francis said the other day, he had a private meeting with Dana, and he said, what a great conversation he had with him.
	Like he was very positive about the conversation.
	Would you say behind closed doors, champions love Dana and have a great relationship with Dana?
	Absolutely.
	I think that right there finishes the conversation, if you ask me.
	Is Dana White the greatest commissioner in the history of sports?
	You've had David Stern, NBA, Paul Tagleybu, NFL, Goodell, Bud Selich.
	Would you count Vince McMahon in the Vince McMahon?
	Okay, but is Dana White?
	That would be probably on the promoter side.
	Yeah, that would be, you know, is he?
	I would say he's definitely up there.
	You know, when it comes to just being the guy who's able to relate on so many different levels, you know, that's what Dana does.
	Dana can come at you from a different perspective and he can understand where you're coming from.
	And he doesn't big time you.
	And that's a huge thing because sometimes when you don't have the same value that they can get out of you, people have the tendency to kind of dismiss you.
	But Dana doesn't do that.
	And that's one thing that I can say that stands high in his character and who he is as a person because he always makes sure to, you know, yeah, he'll return a text.
	No matter how busy he is, he'll return a text.
	He'll return a call.
	So he's one of those guys.
	So you know what?
	I'm really impressed by the wide perspective you take on the sport here.
	You're talking about, you're talking about the leader of the sport, talk about the sport itself.
	You're talking about guys you fought.
	You know, there was a time when Peyton Manning, they said, hey, the NFL is Peyton's league.
	Remember that?
	And it was because owners trusted him by and large.
	But he also influenced the competition committee.
	He influenced Rules Committee.
	Definitely did a lot for the Players Association.
	Yeah, I got it right here.
	Okay, good.
	And it was really tremendous.
	And he used that platform to really help.
	And I think he's really proud of that.
	You sound like you really take a broad perspective.
	Your record as a fighter is there.
	2008 is legendary, right?
	And everything that you did that year.
	What do you want the young fighters and people that look to you to see your impact in the sport that maybe was beyond the Octagon where you used your platform there to help the sport?
	Well, I've been trying to do a few things.
	For one, I started a team and I've had some fighters who I've developed and they become champion, like Kamara Usman.
	That's your guy.
	Yeah, that was my guy.
	Number one right now.
	Strength.
	2022.
	Absolutely.
	And I started a whole movement, whole team.
	A big team has grown because of me even moving here to South Florida and starting the Black Zillows.
	You were part of Black Zillions?
	Yeah.
	You started Black Zillions.
	I started Black Zillions.
	It was me, Josiah, Yuri Villefort, and Bigfoot and a few other guys.
	So we started the Black Zillions and it grew to be one of the biggest teams competing with.
	It was kind of the NWO for a little bit.
	It was like the New World Order taking over there for a little bit.
	And the Black Zillions and you guys had the whole, actually it was more like Degeneration X if you're a wrestling fan.
	You guys came in and you guys were the out, you guys were the underdogs and the outcasts.
	And it did.
	It took off.
	And then the Black Zillions, the owner, did the owner pass away?
	The owner passed away.
	Glenn Robinson passed away and it transitioned to Sanford MMA.
	So that's what it is now, Sanford MMA.
	And it was American Top Team.
	You guys were competitors with American Top Team, correct?
	Yeah, we went against American Top Team in the Ultimate Fighter Show, and we beat them in the Ultimate Fighter Show.
	So, I mean, that's pretty high praise because of the fact that American Top Team's been around for so long, and they're at another level when it comes to their training facility and the athletes they come out of the gym.
	So, I mean, it was very good to be able to show that what we could do in just a short amount of time that we did it.
	That'd be a great ESPN 30 for 30 to Black Zillions, man.
	You guys had a wild run there for a little bit.
	Absolutely.
	But, I mean, you know, to answer your question, you know, Trevor Whitman and myself, Trevor is the designer of this equipment company called Onyx, because when you look at the sport, you know, there's things in it that you want to make safer.
	You know, you always see about the gloves and eye pokes and things like that.
	And, you know, some of these injuries that happen, you know, 70% of the injuries, they happen outside of training.
	And that usually is due to the fact that, you know, unlike any other sport when it comes to football or, you know, hockey or whatever, when it comes to these contact sports, you know, every single year, their equipment is being improved.
	But when it comes to combat sports, you know, the boxing glove hasn't been improved since they attached the thumb to it.
	And, you know, with MMA, you know, the glove hasn't really been improved since they opened the straps up so it's easier to put the glove on.
	But we wanted to do, and Trevor Whitman is the, you know, the genius behind this.
	You know, he designed a whole glove that made it so that, you know, it's really hard and almost impossible to poke somebody in the eye.
	But more importantly, it offers the perfect support.
	You know, he had a system and a glove that offered the perfect support.
	And he had a whole list of gear that was like that, you know, when it comes to Shengards, knee guards, and just a whole equipment line that he designed and behind it.
	And that's what we want to bring into the UFC.
	And, you know, because it's about, you know, we love to fight and fighters will fight doing anything, but in anything.
	But at the end of the day, we have to remember that there's life outside of fighting.
	And you want to be able to be able to, you know, walk and do the things that you like to do once you get done from fighting.
	So, you know, being able to build up the equipment, help out these athletes in that perspective is something that we were trying to do.
	You think Francis has an argument?
	You think Francis has an argument on saying, I'm never going to fight for $500,000 or $600,000 anymore?
	Because here's what the article says.
	It says Nagano details combo with Dana White, clarifies contracts.
	By the way, Tom just pulled up the EBITDA, which was emailed to Tyler in a moment.
	Tom, if you can explain to us what that means, we'll go through that here in a minute.
	But Nagano has revealed what was said in a recent conversation with Dana White and also clarifies his contract status on the UFC.
	If he defeats Cyril Gain next weekend, speaking with you, ESPN, Thursday, Nagano shared more intimate details of their conversation.
	It went pretty well.
	At this point, I'm not upset.
	I'm kind of chill about everything.
	And I went to him.
	We wished each other happy holidays.
	And I tell him my frustration.
	I expressed to him how I would like to stay with the UFC, but I don't feel like UFC still wants me to stay.
	So I don't feel promoted anymore.
	I mean, maybe I'm wrong about that.
	And I didn't see anything compared to what happened to different fighters.
	When I asked Dana White in response to his observation, Nagano praised the UFC boss for being quick on his feet.
	He brings up something really fast, and that's why you know that Dana White is very good.
	He tells me, like, yeah, we want you.
	Have you ever wanted to go somewhere and we didn't take care of you?
	I'm like, yeah, but I think it's more than that.
	Anyways, they went back and forth all this.
	He's had this contract since 2017.
	And I think, you know, the $500,000, $600,000 to Nagano, him getting paid $500,000, $600,000.
	You think he's getting underpaid?
	You think he's getting paid the right amount?
	Who's got the better argument?
	Because I got a follow-up to that for you.
	He should definitely be getting paid over $600,000.
	Because when you look at his value when it comes to, if he wasn't in the UFC, right?
	Say, you know, they walked and he went their separate ways.
	He can do a boxing match with, you know, Tyson Fury, you know, Deontay Walder, and get paid millions and millions of dollars.
	Do you think Dana cares?
	Yes, I think Dana cares.
	Meaning, you think Dana cares that Deontay, that he could go and fight one of those guys, make five to $10 million to the point where he'd be willing to match that pay to keep him there.
	He knows his value.
	He knows what he has in Nganu.
	And he knows that.
	But do you know what I'm asking?
	For example, I remember one time Shaq went to Pat Riley and he says, listen, man, you know, Miami Heat, you know, $20 million a year.
	And he called Jerry Buss.
	He says, Jerry, you know, it's me or Kobe, man.
	Miami wants to give me $20 million.
	You know what Jerry told him?
	He said, take it.
	He said, because I'm not going to pay $20 million.
	He says, go take your go get your money.
	So when he got his $20 million because Shaq was at his end of his career, he's like, dude, I'm not going to pay $20 million.
	And Jerry banked on, what do you call it, Kobe at the time, rather than paying Shaq.
	But in this case, isn't Francis like at his peak?
	Like, isn't he like at a, he's still got a few more years where he can go like this, right?
	He can sell out arena, sell out pay-per-view.
	Absolutely.
	And here's the thing about it.
	Like, when you look at a heavyweight that can do what Francis does, it just makes the whole league look better because, you know, there can be a lot of great fighters in other different weight classes, but heavyweight just says something.
	You know, the baddest man in the world has to be a heavyweight.
	It just kind of like, it just seems like that's just the right thing to be, right?
	You know, no matter how good somebody is at 155, he's like, yeah, he's tough, but I mean, I probably can whoop his ass.
	You know what I'm saying?
	Nagano would whoop Connor McGregor's ass.
	Right.
	I mean, that's just.
	But there's no doubt when you see Francis fight and you see him punch somebody that you know that he'll probably knock your head off into a stratosphere.
	You know, there's that fear factor.
	So having a heavyweight that can do what Francis does is not, you know, not something that you just want to let go.
	And that's something that you value.
	Somebody who can close off the show, somebody who's going to bring you some.
	So here's my follow-up to that.
	And this is where I'm curious to know what you would say about this.
	Because, you know, so you got a Francis who is a great fighter, but he's not a promoter.
	So he's not a guy that's going to go out there and promote, like, let's just say Connor will promote, right?
	A Masvedel will promote.
	A Kobe will promote.
	Usman is not even a promoter.
	Usman's a great fighter, but Usman's not a like, you know, people who want to watch Usman fight is because they want to see this guy, see if somebody can take him down.
	They're not going to because he's a great promoter.
	He's doing this.
	He's not that guy.
	He just comes, shows up, does his job in the league.
	Matter of fact, I don't even think promoting gets natural to him, right?
	I think it's natural to certain people.
	Do you think to Dana, Dana's Dana's guy to build as a face of UFC is more somebody that's also great personality promoter rather than somebody that just shows up and fights?
	I mean, I think there's a balance there.
	You know what I'm saying?
	I think that, you know, in certain fighters, everybody can't be the same.
	You know, if everybody was the same and everybody went out there and they talked trash and they, you know, tried to sell us, then it'd become very monotonous and boring at the same time because everybody's giving the same thing.
	But there's a subtle confidence in Francis and there's just this, I wonder what's going to happen when he connects.
	You know, like this week, this fight just is coming up this weekend.
	You know, he's Francis isn't saying much, but at the same time, the anticipation for it is very high.
	You know, you have Cyril Gon in there and you have Francis and Ganu.
	These guys are training partners.
	You know, Francis' old training partner is now Cyril Gon's training partner.
	And then there's this whole history about, you know, Francis may have knocked him out in training practice and whatnot.
	So there's an anticipation and there's many different ways to sell a fight.
	You know, if I'm a promoter, I understand who I'm promoting.
	You know, sometimes guys need a less of a push than other guys, the guys who need more of a push, then that's when you have to start being a better promoter and get the people to want to see them.
	Yeah, you know, so you've got guys like Khabib, you've got guys like George St. Pierre, some of the biggest fighters of all time don't have to go out there and act like clowns.
	It's not the WWE.
	Some of those guys that aren't the great fighters that kind of know a little bit, this is my moment.
	I better get the most out of it.
	Those are the guys that go out there.
	And then you have like a Connor who's probably better on the mic than he is in the ring.
	So I mean, you have something with Nganu that there's, if he has any card to play with Dana, it's the fact that Dana, I think anyway, has been waiting patiently for the mega fight of the decade.
	He's been waiting two years for John Jones to get his weight up and he wants to Ngano John Jones fight.
	So I don't think he's going to let anyone.
	Ngangano, John Jar, are they even in the same weight class?
	Oh, yeah, they are.
	They are.
	John Jones has gotten to be a heavyweight and he's big and he's, you know, he's got that light, light, heavyweight mentality, meaning the fact that he can fight in many different ways.
	He can wrestle.
	He can do it.
	Who would be favored in that fight?
	I mean, you're talking about arguably the number one UFC fighter in history.
	I think the question is.
	Is ring rust a real thing?
	Is ring rust a real thing?
	Yeah, ring rust is a real thing.
	It is a real thing.
	But it also depends on who you are as a fighter.
	You know what I'm saying?
	Sometimes people go out there and they exhibit that kind of ring rust.
	But I mean, when you're out for so long, the game changes like that in subtle ways that if you're not in there, you don't even realize because there's so much that goes into being able to fight.
	It's more mental than it is physical when it gets down to fight week and being in the cage on fight day.
	So you have to be able to bring yourself there a little bit every single day and stay on top of the mental game.
	If you don't stay on top of the mental game, then when you get out there, you can go out there and experience some ring rust.
	So you think somebody like John Jones, even one of the maybe the single best fighter of all time, two years out of the ring, he's going to get that adrenaline dump, the ring rust, and then you have somebody like Ngano in there.
	It's recipe for disaster.
	Or do you think John Jones is just so good?
	John Jones is so good, but there's something different about John Jones.
	Like John Jones, one thing that I really like about John Jones, and I hold high praises for him for, is because of the fact that, you know, his life could be falling apart around a fight, but yet when he's in the cage, he's laser and focused and he's locked in.
	That right there is a talent that a lot of people can't do.
	You know, for me, I had a hard time juggling life outside and then getting inside the cage and not letting it affect my performance.
	So being able to do that is an art form in itself.
	And John Jones has been able to, you know, he's exhibited that time and time again.
	So it's hard to say if John Jones is going to go and fall for it and, you know, go and have the ring rust that you wouldn't anticipate anybody else being out as long as he will win if these guys face each other.
	Man, it's a tough one to call, to be honest.
	And I'm not just trying to say that to try to give a 50-50 answer, but you have Francis who has been a sponge.
	Training with Francis and seeing Francis growth from the time he started to where he is now, it's hard to say that he can't do all those things that a mixed martial artist fighters can do.
	Before it was like, he only had the big power.
	Well, now he can grapple.
	Now he can wrestle.
	Now he can defend takedowns.
	Now he has a better understanding of where the fight needs to be and how to get a guy to end his fight.
	And then you have John Jones at the aspect who understands a great flow of a fight, has great defense.
	And at the same time, he's just very smart inside the cage.
	So it's a very tough one to call.
	But I mean, here's the thing that I think about when I think about this matchup is that, you know, when John Jones was at 205, his last few fights, he was getting caught with some punches, you know, and it was making him look a little bit more human.
	So I would say if he goes up the heavyweight and he doesn't patch up those holes, then he can get caught with a big shot and peak.
	Peak of John Jones versus Francis.
	I'm talking peak, peak, when John was peaking where you were in the ring with him.
	Yeah, yeah.
	John Jones is something special when he was speaking.
	I mean, to fight, to fight how John Jones used to fight back then, it was just, it was ridiculous because he was so creative inside the Octagon and he had no fear.
	So when you don't have any fear and you have that creativity, you're looking at somebody who was just absolutely dynamic.
	And then his athleticism and his brain and everything else that he had.
	So I would say John Jones, you know, people, you know, they don't want to give John Jones his credit because of the things that he's done and things like that.
	But, you know, when you look at the talent, just of what he's been able to do, I mean, you just, you got to give it to him because he's working with a different set of skills when it comes to physically.
	I was using his elbow as a jab.
	Well, that's his only loss.
	His only loss is that elbow to the forehead, right?
	I mean, where they stopped him.
	He's like, oh, my gosh, I didn't know you can't do this.
	It was just like natural to him to lay it on the guy.
	But who's your top five?
	You give your top five when the conversation comes up.
	In every sport, there's that combo.
	Who do you put as an all-time great?
	And by the way, not by weight clocks.
	Just go.
	Go.
	I would say John Jones is number one.
	I'll say Habib.
	Got to go.
	Number two.
	I would say GSP.
	You put a couple of GSP.
	Yeah.
	And then I'll say Kamaru Usman.
	Fourth.
	And I'll say Anderson Silva.
	You put Silva fifth.
	There was a time also Silva was vicious, just nasty when he would fight.
	Yeah, I mean, these are guys that I like to fight.
	I mean, I love the way Habib fight, you know, and I think that, you know, GSP is amazing too.
	GSP has been my training partner for years and just absolutely amazing when it comes to a fight.
	And his fight IQ is just on another level.
	Who's he missing, Pat?
	There's someone on your top five.
	Listen, this is his world.
	Do you watch this, Gerard?
	Watch this.
	I do.
	Listen, the average person who doesn't know the sport technically is going to say, obviously, how about Conor McGregor not being the top five?
	But to put those names, these guys went on a streak.
	All of those guys went on a streak of 20 matches.
	Maybe I'm mistaken.
	I think it's all of them have gone 20 plus undefeated, right?
	Yeah.
	Obviously, John Jones, the only loss is the one that he had no clue what was going on.
	He started elbowing on the guy.
	Number two, you said Khabib, who was what, 30, 28, and 0 or I don't know.
	29 and 0.
	29 and 0.
	Okay, so that's that guy.
	Three, you put GSP, who he went on a rampage for a while.
	Four, you said Usman, who right now is undefeated, isn't he?
	No one's at how many, how many matches has he what is Usman's record today?
	I couldn't even tell.
	He's 19.
	19 and 0.
	Hold it up.
	Yeah, I mean, Usman is Usman.
	And then you got five being Silva, who went for a while as well.
	Give an honorable mention, bro.
	Who's not on the list?
	He's very company-biased here.
	We've got nobody from Pride.
	Fader doesn't get any love, man.
	We got nothing for any of the Gracies.
	We got nothing.
	I mean, I'm thinking about.
	You guys want his friends to get mad at him?
	No, I can say, I can say an honorable mention.
	I can say Fedor is definitely in.
	I forgot all about Fedora.
	See, I forgot about Fedora, man.
	I forgot about Fador.
	Fedor can definitely be in the top five.
	That's got to be Dana White's biggest mistake, right?
	That's got to be his biggest regret.
	You figure?
	Yeah, I mean, Fedora.
	Not getting him.
	Is that what he's doing?
	Over a t-shirt?
	Tell the story.
	Well, the story, as I understand it, is Fader has his own clothing line.
	And he wanted to promote his own clothing line when he came to the Teller.
	Pull up this guy, Fedora.
	And Dana said.
	Dana has a Reebok deal.
	He got away Reebok.
	But is that on Dana or is that a UFC deal?
	They just could never come to, they can never come together on the sponsorship.
	I wonder if it's the sport now, but Fedor, man.
	Fedor 20 years ago.
	I mean, the fight on him and Randall.
	You can watch that on repeat, and you'll never get tired of it.
	Os Rutin.
	I mean, some of the old school guys, too.
	And then the rules were so different.
	The guys had to fight five times in a night.
	Five times in a night?
	Grand Priest.
	Let me ask a different question.
	Let me ask a different question.
	So we just right now said fighters, right?
	And you posted, you know, John Jones, Khabib, GSP, Usman, and at the bottom, Silva.
	Top five greatest promoters who were also good fighters.
	We don't even need to talk about number one.
	It's really who number two is because number one is obviously.
	Yeah.
	Do you put anybody above him?
	Muhammad Ali.
	No, no, no.
	I'm talking in their world.
	In their world.
	Do you put anybody here to Connor as the greatest promoter who was a fighter, talk shit, shit talker, you know, troll, all of that?
	Nobody's greater than Connor.
	I mean, I would say number two will be Chale Sunnin.
	Okay.
	He's going to be definitely number two.
	Let's see.
	What will be number three?
	The Diaz brothers.
	Ah, man.
	Yeah, they're very good at selling.
	I mean, they don't even mean to sell it.
	They just themselves.
	Unapologetically.
	So you put them three, both of them?
	I would say so, yeah.
	I mean, those guys can sell a fight.
	I mean, let's see who else is on there.
	You think Kobe's a good promoter?
	Kobe Covington is a great promoter.
	He's a good promoter.
	Who else?
	Are we missing a name?
	I'm trying to.
	See, he said Anderson Silva, and this is what I always loved about the Spider.
	The Spider barely spoke English, but he was such a performer inside the ring.
	Such a performer.
	He was, dude, he was promoting his next fight while he was beating the opponent.
	Like, he was, you know, and, you know, until what's his name from Long Island caught him.
	Like, that's what you were saying.
	You do it for so long.
	You do it for so long.
	And all it takes is Chris Wideman.
	Just one time.
	Yeah, wait a minute.
	On the story with Sonan, and then I want to go to yours, is the press conference with Sonan and Silva, where he says, Look, all you guys are talking about English.
	Look, if I go to Brazil, there's an app to learn how to speak Brazilian.
	This guy is not traveling here from Brazil.
	He lives in Vegas and he flies to, he lives in Beverly Hills and he flies to Vegas.
	I'm traveling all the way.
	You should feel sorry for me, not for this guy.
	He was a great Smack Talker.
	He brought it.
	He was phenomenal, man.
	I mean, he would practice his lines and he would just get it down to the point where, I mean, he was just so fluid with it, you know?
	And he just, you know, he unlocked his talent.
	I think he's one of the big reasons to help, you know, Kobe Covington kind of come into his own and just, you know, be the phenomenal promoter Kobe is.
	I mean, Kobe is Kobe's up there.
	You know, Kobe's really good.
	Kobe says some stuff that, you know, he's kind of funny.
	You know what I'm saying?
	He's kind of funny, the things that he says.
	And I think that I think that's what it has to be.
	You know, you have to, you know, be quick-witted, but at the same time, kind of funny at the same time.
	The fight world needs a heel for sure.
	Yeah, for sure.
	Who's Kobe fighting coming up?
	Miles.
	Who's favorite in that?
	Kobe, for sure.
	For sure.
	For sure.
	You said something very interesting.
	You said practice his lines.
	Are you telling me that Dana and the UFC are having guys, they're giving guys some help with what they should say and leading up to the fights?
	No, these guys do it on their own.
	It's 100% organic.
	100% organic.
	The beef is 100% organic.
	100% organic.
	It's not, you know, Mayweather and McGregor talking smack to each other and then going back into the room after the press is in there and being like, good one, old chap.
	We're selling some toggles.
	When the beef is, because with MMA, we still have that like that Bushido code, you know, where we just kind of like honor and respect.
	And then when somebody disrespects you, it cuts at a different level, you know, so you can't just shake it off.
	And it's not like, nah, we're not friends until I punch you in the face, you know?
	And then after you're not.
	You're not friends until I punch you in the face.
	Yeah, and then after we punch each other in the face a few times, we are not friends.
	Here's my question for you, bro.
	And here's what I want you to do here.
	All right.
	Leave your humbleness at the door for one second.
	We're throwing all these names out there, okay?
	GSP, Connor, promoting, Kobe, Usman.
	You're a freaking Hall of Famer, bro.
	Lose the humbleness.
	Where are you at on this list?
	Like, what?
	Like, give me a little, like, I'll tell you what, mother, give me something.
	Where are you at?
	That's not me, man.
	I know.
	I don't feel like I need to do that.
	You know, I feel like, you know, I am who I am.
	You know, and what I did is.
	But if you had to rank yourself in this top five, top ten, you're not going to be able to do that.
	I wouldn't even rank myself.
	Straight up.
	No, I wouldn't do it.
	Better question, Rashad.
	Could Adam last an entire minute in the ring with you?
	Not in the interest in the answer, Rashad.
	60 full human seconds.
	I'm good.
	Let's talk about John Jones.
	Let's talk about John Jones and Greg Jackson because, you know, the stories you were talking about with Greg Jackson on mental toughness, like some of the stuff is psychotic.
	Like when you were saying on Joe Rogan, how you carry your guy and then you have to be willing to die, you know, for your buddies and to go through this.
	When John came through, you're the older brother to him, right?
	You were playing because you were the guy that ran the camp and you made the camp popular.
	Everybody knew you were that name, right?
	And in this world, camps are very important, right?
	A great coach gets a great player.
	That player can also make the coach very famous in sports, college.
	Tim Duncan made pop pretty famous.
	Michael made Phil very famous.
	Kobe didn't really make Phil famous because Phil was already famous, but Michael made Phil famous, right?
	How was John's energy when he came in?
	Because I've heard what you've said about him before.
	And the interview you guys did together with, it wasn't Joe, was somebody else interviewing the two of you guys before the fight.
	You know who I'm talking about.
	And I've seen Daniel Cormier and him talk and what Daniel says about John, where he says he'll never change.
	You don't make mistakes over and over and over again, et cetera, et cetera.
	You hear that whole conversation with Joe was, I think, hosting that interview.
	Who was John when he first walked into the camp?
	Who was that guy?
	He was an eager student.
	You know, John just wanted to learn very big imagination.
	You know, he would, he would, you know, after training, he'd be one of those guys who would just sit and just, you know, play around and kind of just, you know, try out different moves, like just, you know, like these different, you know, conceptual moves, you know, things that you may never pull off, but he would do those things over and over again, things that people wouldn't expect.
	Very big imagination.
	Very eager to be the guy.
	You know, I remember we went out one time and he's like, oh man, what is it like to have, you know, people come up to you and want to take pictures?
	And I'm like, one day you'll find out, you know, you know, so super ambitious.
	Very ambitious.
	Curious.
	Was he humble?
	Yeah, he was humble.
	But confident.
	But confident, very confident.
	So he had swagger even coming in.
	Oh, yeah.
	He wanted to be the guy and he knew one day he would be.
	How old was he when you first met him?
	Maybe 21.
	Maybe 21?
	And so when you guys were sparring, did you, when you're practicing, did you say, this guy's different?
	Like, did you immediately feel that this guy is different than everybody else?
	Yeah, yeah.
	I remember we were doing wrestling.
	We were doing wrestling.
	I used to take everybody down.
	And I went with him for the first time.
	And I'm like, all right, I'll go.
	And he took me down.
	And I was like.
	First time.
	First time.
	And I was like, oh, man.
	He's been wrestling his brothers his whole life.
	He's got two NFL players.
	Yeah, two big guys.
	And he's the skinniest in the family.
	So he was 6'4, 170 in junior year.
	Yeah, he's got a freaky dimension that kind of adds to his athleticism and what he's able to do in the Octagon.
	Was he a troublemaker before or did he pick up the habits after all the attention came?
	You know, I would say that John is, I wouldn't say a troublemaker.
	I would just say that he would, what gets John in trouble is because every four weeks before his fight, he likes to blow off a little bit of steam.
	And it's kind of like his ritual that he does where, you know, he wants to, you know, it's like a little celebration to himself, you know, and it's kind of like his thing where, you know, he'll go and he'll party like four weeks before he fights and then he'll finish the rest of his camp, you know.
	But when he goes, he goes hard.
	You know what I'm saying?
	He goes hard in the paint.
	Yeah, but blow off a little literally, a little too literally, unfortunately.
	Yeah, a little too literally.
	But what is that like?
	What I'm trying to find out is like, you know, sometimes I interviewed Billy Bean.
	We had him at the event.
	Billy Bean, I don't know if you've seen a movie Moneyball with Brad Pitt, you know, the baseball movie if you've seen it.
	And I said, Billy, you're a recruiter.
	When you're recruiting guys, what are you looking for?
	He says, obviously talent, okay?
	Physical, like what you look like physically, you take care of yourself.
	And then he said, a work ethic.
	And then he said, upbringing.
	And upbringing is, if we don't have that, that's tough because eventually this guy's going to mess up his career.
	That's what he would say.
	So they would look at a lot of stars.
	Like for himself, he was coming up.
	They thought he's going to be a big star.
	MLB All-Star play very quickly, they realize you're good for ML, you're good for AAA, you're good for college, but you're not going to make it in the E.
	He says, I knew very quickly I don't belong in this league.
	John knew he belonged in the league, but I wonder, like, you know, sometimes you're hanging out and I remember being in the Army one weekend, these guys are like, we're going to go and party at this place.
	I just got this gut feeling.
	I'm like, dude, I'm just not going to go with these guys.
	I'm just not getting a good feeling about these guys going where they're going.
	So I didn't go that weekend.
	Everybody got arrested.
	Everybody went to jail.
	Everybody was dishonorably discharged that one weekend.
	So is it the DNA in him?
	Is it he learned it from somebody?
	Is it the friends?
	Is it the coach?
	What do you put in?
	It's in him.
	It's in him.
	He's got that wild side to him.
	There's a part.
	See, the same things that make you great in one area will make you not so great in the other area.
	You know what I'm saying?
	And the fact that he takes risk in a cage and he lives like that.
	He takes risk in his life too.
	And it's part of who he is.
	I think there's some things that he needs to sort out within himself.
	And I feel that he's doing those things.
	But being able to do those things and being able to confront a very ugly side of yourself is confronting it.
	You know what I'm saying?
	And being open and honest about it to the point where you're willing to deal with it.
	And I feel like he still needs to make strides in that area.
	Being accountable for the things that actually keep bringing him back to that place.
	And I feel like as he grows even more, because he's not the same kid he was when he's making those mistakes.
	He's still making those mistakes because he wasn't accountable for it before.
	He's 34 now.
	Yeah, it's a different ballgame.
	It's a different ballgame.
	And here's the sad thing.
	And here's what I do not want for him.
	I do not want him to still be making those mistakes once there's no value in him anymore.
	Once people don't, you know, can't get another penny out of him anymore.
	Because at that point, then you go down a whole different spiral, you know, and that's what I don't hope for.
	I hope that he figures it out because there's something in him that's causing him to keep going back to that place.
	And he is the only person that can sort that out.
	Does he have guys like you in his ears?
	You sound like a lot different relationship today than the way you guys were speaking eight years ago.
	You know what I'm saying?
	You sound in the way you're speaking about him.
	So have you guys mended?
	Have you guys spoken?
	Have you guys hung out?
	Have you guys broken bread?
	Have you guys gone to dinner?
	Is there that relationship again?
	We don't have that relationship, but whenever I see him, I speak to him and say what's up to him and give him some well wishes and things like that.
	I have nothing but love for the guy.
	There's a couple of times I had some dreams about him.
	I'm like, oh man, I got to check on John.
	So I'll call his manager, Malkie, and be like, hey, is John okay?
	I just had this crazy dream that this happened to him.
	Check on him, make sure that he's good.
	Because I care about the kid.
	And I don't want him to, I want him to be the guy that he can be.
	I want him to be that guy.
	You ever, like, even coming up, you know, in the world of business, I've been around a lot of guys that were 10 times better than me in insurance, right?
	But you'd sit there and you talk to, I'd watch, like, we're in a room, say somebody that's doing very well for themselves.
	They're giving counsel to us, right?
	I'd watch the other guys that I was in the same camp with.
	So imagine like an ultimate fight or whatever, but we're in an ultimate fighter, but for insurance and business, right?
	And one of the guys in the room just looked at everybody like with a smirk on his face, like, dude, I'm 10 times better than all you guys.
	You guys have no clue what you're talking about.
	I know what I'm, you could never give this person counsel.
	And God forbid if you did, the level of sensitivity to the roof, oh my gosh, you like get uncomfortable.
	Like, you know, you know what I'm talking about.
	There's no way a guy gets that good without having taken coaching from somebody.
	Do you know what I'm saying?
	Like, there's no way you're born with those abilities.
	So he must have the ability to take the coaching in areas that he wants to.
	But the other side where, you know, Cormier says he'll never change.
	Do you agree with Cormier that he'll never change certain things?
	I don't agree with that.
	You know, I think that I think that people can change all the time.
	And I feel like it just takes the right situation to make that change happen.
	You know, I'm not the person who I was 10 years ago in so many different aspects, not even five years ago.
	You know, I've changed in so many different ways.
	And that change happened within me.
	But it took me realizing it.
	You know, no one could make me change.
	It was something that I needed to see for myself to have that change happen.
	And you never know what happens in life.
	You know, life can pull you in a different direction and have you see something that you didn't see before, and then you change as a person.
	Yeah, listen, this is coming from a fan.
	I mean, you know, from a fan perspective, you want to see this guy figured out because the guy is he's got Michael in him, but he's got Rodman in him.
	It's a very good dynamic strong.
	He's very in him, too.
	You know, he's got Darrell Strawberry and maybe a little Dwight Gooden.
	But can you ask him a question?
	Yes.
	Right now, basically, what you're talking about is growing up and personal growth.
	Okay.
	And Pat let off the entire conversation with who you were when you were age 22 versus now you're 42.
	So you did a hot boxing with Mike Tyson.
	And I mean, the first half hour, you were talking about things that you used to do and things that you're doing now.
	So my question revolves around personal growth.
	You're now a vegan.
	You used to say, you know, you eat meat, whatever.
	You used to party, smoke, drink, whatever, that kind of lifestyle.
	Now you're doing mushrooms.
	You have your metatoed.
	You know, you talked about DMT.
	I've done DMT.
	That shit's wild.
	I've done some mushrooms.
	Mom, I hope you're not listening.
	But my question is, like, you've grown up.
	Clearly, you've got, like, you got it going on, bro.
	Like, you're knocking people out in the ring, but here, just like you're very chill, casual dude.
	The personal growth.
	When did you have to grow up?
	And what did what you're doing now with your, because your company, is it metatoed?
	Is that what it is?
	Yeah, metatoed.
	Just explain the personal growth and where you're at, even with your diet, your health, your exercise, your mentality, your emotions, things that you're putting in your body.
	Where's that all at?
	You know, I felt like I needed to grow up and just, you know, when I just kept bumping my head, you know, and just having things, setbacks happen to me and just trying to figure out like where it was coming from, you know, and how I was my own worst enemy and how I kept on causing myself to have these same repeating patterns in my life.
	And, you know, facing a lot of part of my, a lot of the part of myself that I didn't want to face before, you know, and I point to psychedelics, not because I'm like everybody needs to, you know, use psychedelics in order to get to find truth, but using psychedelics allowed me to get perspective.
	You know, the only thing that can help you get perspective without it is time, you know, but sometimes you don't have time, you know.
	And being able to get the perspective that I have when I was using psychedelics allowed me to see areas in myself that I was, you know, I needed to change and areas I needed to confront.
	And those, you know, was a spawn of, you know, that was a spawn of me, you know, changing and wanting to do better for myself and, you know, doing, you know, doing better for people that I affected, you know, by being a certain kind of way.
	And that was only something that only I could do for myself.
	There was only something that I had to see for myself.
	But, you know, I wasn't able to see for myself because I was caught in that habitual pattern of just doing the same thing and not being able to see where I was coming up short.
	And so it's been a different path for me.
	And that's why I even came back to fighting, you know, just because I want to feel it from this perspective.
	You know, I fought from one perspective for the longest time, but I never fought in this perspective.
	And I wanted to just have that and experience that because I've grown so much in this area where I just wanted to see what it would be like now.
	It's hard to fight from a place of confidence like that from yourself.
	So much of fighting comes from self-hatred and self-loathing and externalizing a lot of the things that you've internalized your whole life.
	So now when you find peace, is there any fear that you won't have that same rage?
	You won't be able to unleash that same, you know, get yourself into that same, you know, violent, primordial being you need to be to face another man like that.
	Um, that's a good question.
	I feel like that's one of the things that kind of led to me not fighting the way I felt like I need to fight in the last few fights is because, you know, I found peace in a lot of different areas where I was struggling before.
	You know, fighting has been therapy for me, to be honest, you know, and some of the things that I was working through in life, I found a way to work through them through fighting.
	But now as a fighter and where I'm at right now, I don't feel like I need to be angry or have the feelings of that dog, you know, in that kind of way.
	You know, now I know how to how to hit a switch and mentally bring myself to that point and unleash that beast and be savage when I need to be.
	And at the same time, you know, be another way when I need to be.
	Well, it's not just you.
	I mean, you know, you look at guys in the NFL.
	They don't know that at the end of their career, they can turn it off.
	Or even in the offseason, they can't turn it off.
	You look at dudes that are fighting.
	You look at soldiers that come back.
	I mean, when you're, and it's not necessarily their fault, when you're trained to be a hammer, all you're going to see is nails.
	Right.
	You know, so I mean, in that regard, I mean, it's, it's a really interesting, you're almost like a case study.
	You're a case study for, you know, professionally violent people to see if they can kind of turn it on, turn it off, and if it can be controlled violence or if that just kind of takes over your personality.
	Yeah, I mean, it's a very interesting process to be honest, because, you know, you have this mindset where, you know, you are a fighter.
	And, you know, when you engage that beast enough times, it just becomes who you are on so many different levels.
	So then when you don't have it anymore, you have to find a new way to let it out, you know, without letting it out in an uncontrolled manner that is not acceptable anymore.
	Because, you know, the best thing about the 15 minutes of fighting is the fact that that's your chance to let it all out.
	You know, be the animal that you want to be.
	And it feels good.
	It feels good to just let it out.
	But you're not always going to have that in life.
	So you have to find different avenues to let it out.
	And I've been fortunate enough to learn how to do that outside of fighting.
	And now that I felt like I've learned how to do that, I feel like, you know, I'm ready to fight again.
	Yeah, that's the famous quote.
	I mean, this goes back to what Pat was saying about John Jones.
	You know, the problem is you stare into the darkness long enough and eventually the darkness stares back.
	Right.
	So, you know, if John Jones is trained to be a fighter and there's nothing, there's nobody in front of him to fight, he's going to start fighting himself.
	Yeah.
	These other guys find that you said one other thing, life outside of fighting.
	You know, for guys, you see so many great, great, great champions that they don't know when to walk away.
	You see, you know, Ken Shamrock, I think, was still fighting.
	You know, guys, like when you saw, you saw, you know, Ben Askren going up there taking that, you know, I saw, you know, Brendan Schob says it's not a dive.
	I don't know what your opinion on that is, but I saw Robbie Lawler put his fist through Ben Askrin's face and him not him not him not go down.
	So I don't know what your thoughts are on Ben Askren versus Jake Paul, if you want to say him.
	But I mean, I don't know, man.
	I don't know.
	I mean, look, I'm not going to take a dive.
	I'm not going to let somebody punch me in the face like that and take a dive.
	I mean, I think Jake just really caught him.
	Really?
	What about Tyrone Woodley?
	Is there any chance he took a dive?
	Because he got knocked out.
	Nah, Jake caught him again.
	I mean, listen, I hate to say it because I was not a fan of the Jake, Paul, the Nepal brothers doing their thing, but they won me over.
	You got to respect them.
	You got to respect them because, I mean, it's not easy what they did.
	How bad would you mess up Jake Paul?
	I mean, I like to believe I'll mess him up pretty bad, but I mean, you know, Jake is doing some things now.
	You know what I'm saying?
	He's going to see Hall of Fame.
	I'm just saying, like, I'm not a boxer.
	That's what I'm saying.
	I'm not a boxer.
	What's the difference between the two for those laymans out here?
	Pace, the timing, the distance, the cadence of the punches.
	You got to be able to understand that in order to, you can't just jump into a boxing match and just think that you've got to be.
	It's a different sport.
	It's a totally different sport.
	It's a long drive competition compared to 18 holes of golf.
	It's home run derby or a dunk contest compared to basketball.
	You have to have, you know, to go up against him, he's going to grapple you.
	He's going to strike from the outside.
	He's going to kick you with your legs from every angle.
	I mean, the amount of stuff that you have to prepare for is insane.
	Like, for instance, like T-Wood is known for that big overhand right, but that was predicated off the fact that he had the ability to take you down.
	So you had to respect the fact that he could take you down.
	So you're not even worrying about that.
	It's just straight boxing.
	It's just straight boxing, yeah.
	By the way, so here's a question.
	You got Francis who's destroying people, right, with a swing.
	And then you got Tyson Fury, who is undefeated.
	And one looks like a boxer.
	The other one looks like a bartender, right?
	Even he jokes.
	What are you trying to say?
	Even his jokes about it.
	No, no.
	He posted a picture the other day.
	He says, this guy looks like a boxer.
	This guy does not, but this guy whooped his ass.
	Like, that's what he said on his Instagram post.
	But if Fury today fights Francis boxing, obviously in the other area, it's a different story.
	But it's in the boxing by the boxing rules.
	Does Tyson still win?
	100%.
	100%.
	I mean, listen, listen.
	Wow.
	Listen.
	As today, right now.
	No, I'm talking about right now.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, I mean, Francis hasn't been boxing, right?
	I mean, listen, Francis can box, but to dismiss Tyson Fury just by the way his body is, you're dismissing his boxing skill.
	Tyson Fury is extremely fast.
	He has, you know, very good footwork.
	You know, he has very good setups with his punches.
	I mean, Deontay Wilder, I mean, his skill level when it comes to showing the straight ones and twos may not be the cleanest, but he can box.
	You know what I'm saying?
	Wilder.
	Wilder can wilder can box.
	So maybe Wilder Francis is a better fight.
	That'll be a better fight.
	I see what you're saying.
	I think that if Deontay Wilder and Francis fought, I like Francis in that fight.
	Over Wilder.
	Over Wilder.
	I like Francis in that fight.
	Because Wilder throws some wild punches when it comes.
	But if they connect, you're going down.
	Back to Jake Paul.
	He's just making mincemeat of these UFC guys.
	You brought up Ben Astley.
	Let's get Anderson Silva okay, though.
	But let's talk boxers.
	Where is he in an actual boxing match if he's fighting a real boxer?
	I don't know if Yuri's brother is a good example.
	In his weight class, too, though, Adam, because he's been fighting people 20 years ago.
	Where is he in a real boxer?
	Okay, something that I'm clarifying right now is like, all right, cool.
	It's not the same thing.
	Boxing UFC, use the home run derby versus a real baseball game.
	If he fights a real boxer, where's that go?
	Probably not well for him, you know, because the truth of the matter is, you know, he still makes a lot of amateur mistakes when he's out there.
	You know, he's fighting exactly who he needs to be fighting.
	And I think this is the shtick that he needs to stick with because, you know, he doesn't need to be fighting any real boxers that's been fighting since they were kids because the truth of the matter is he will get exposed in that respect.
	He's got 40 million reasons to keep messing up UFC guys, huh?
	I mean, I guess he's supposed to be fighting Mike Tyson soon.
	Yeah, I don't know about that.
	You got a story on that, Pat?
	I mean, that's what I heard.
	I mean, but if he's fighting Mike Tyson, Mike is going to destroy him because Mike don't play boxing.
	Mike don't play boxing.
	Mike would destroy him.
	Mike would.
	Listen, Mike is a different, different animal altogether.
	Mike is something different.
	Like, Mike is the kind of guy who, like, he's become very civilized, but he's still very, very savage.
	Very savage.
	Up until what age?
	Meaning 55, Mike Tyson will mess him up.
	65?
	65 is seven years away from getting Social Security.
	65 is 55.
	I don't know what we're talking about.
	He smokes a lot.
	He takes a lot of mushrooms, so he's got a different perspective.
	I mean, Mike trains, too.
	Mike is not just, he doesn't just do it to get in shape for a fight.
	Mike is training all the time.
	He's consistently training.
	He's been able to find a second win when it comes to training.
	He's been able to find a second win when it comes to the love of the sport, which pushed him out of the boxing in general.
	But now he loves it again.
	And now that he loves it again, he's into it.
	He's into boxing and he's.
	But by the way, would you make the comparison of John Jones and Mike Tyson more than John Jones and Dennis Rodman?
	Would you make that like a personality, more the extracurricular activities outside of the ring?
	Would you make that comparison?
	I would say no.
	I mean, because knowing Mike Tyson, Mike is a very cerebral guy.
	Mike is one of the smartest guys that you're going to meet.
	I would say when Mike gets himself in situations, it's because he allowed himself to get overwhelmed with a situation.
	He doesn't handle being overwhelmed really well.
	You know what I'm saying?
	Like Mike doesn't.
	Mike doesn't.
	Well, you know that Pat and Tyson were in the ring together one time.
	Yeah, it was a pretty intense moment.
	What was the one thing?
	Oh, he interviewed him in the road boxing.
	But you know what?
	He is extremely intense, extremely smart.
	But the reason why, you know, Gerard used the word case study.
	You know, if you look at everybody as a case study, I'm a case study, you're a case study.
	We're all case studies here, right?
	But if you look at everybody as a case study, Mike, things changed when the guy who believed in him passed away.
	So it was an event.
	Customado.
	Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
	And I asked him the question.
	I wonder if something like that happened to John.
	There is a very interesting dynamic between a father and a son, where the father earns the respect of the son to the point where the son is willing to take the feedback from the father to not want to disappoint the father.
	That dynamic is a very powerful dynamic.
	We didn't know in heaven.
	If another man plays that role for you, it can really help shape your life, right?
	Is there something like that in John's life?
	I think that person was his mother.
	Okay.
	And his mother was somebody who, you know, she was a great woman.
	You know, this woman, when I was getting ready to fight John in the height of our beef, she was blind, but she knew I walked into the room.
	She'd be like, is that Rashad?
	And then her husband's like, yeah, that's Rashad.
	Rashad, I know you didn't walk in the room without saying hi to me.
	And she would just always make me speak to her.
	But she would just, you know, she'd be like, I know you and John going through it.
	But, you know, and she'd just like, you know, give me love.
	You know what I'm saying?
	So she was a very special woman, very spiritual woman.
	And I feel like she was John's, you know, spiritual anchor.
	And I feel like a lot of the things that we see in John now is maybe him dealing with shades of that emotion.
	Yeah, she passed away a few years ago.
	Who was that for you?
	Oh, man, who was that for me?
	I would say it's my mom.
	My mom is my rock.
	I can call my mom, and she always got some advice.
	Rashad, now listen.
	I know you got a fight coming up, Rashad.
	Listen, when you go out there, Rashad, you got to hit, Rashad.
	You got to hit and keep him hit me.
	It's great advice, bro.
	I wasn't going to actually hit him.
	you know based on that that almost sounded like that old cannabis song back in the day with uh Cannot Buzz yeah Yeah, with second-round knockout with Mike Tyson.
	Cannabis, man, you got to hit him.
	Second round knockout.
	Cool, JK.
	Yeah, that's right.
	But now you can't underestimate moms, right?
	My mom is an undefeated flyweight in our house.
	The kitchen was the octagon, and she was undefeated.
	Babs.
	Babs, first round knockouts.
	If she calls you the kitchen, you've done something wrong.
	Welcome to the Octagon.
	You're going down.
	Pat, I think you were going somewhere with your question about John because your life changed forever the day that your dad had a heart attack, right?
	Yeah, no, listen, for me, I dramatically changed my life.
	So I wonder when a Cormier says dramatic, he's never going to change.
	And everybody I've interviewed from the UFC side I've talked to, I've always asked, who do you think can one day replace Dana White?
	I got to tell you, unanimously, do you think Connor could do it?
	No.
	Do you think Joe could do it?
	Joe wouldn't want to.
	Do you think this guy?
	Almost everybody I've asked who could replace Dana's job is Cormier.
	I'm telling you.
	That's what a lot of people have.
	Maybe you disagree with that.
	No, I think DC can't.
	Yeah, sure.
	So they say DC.
	So I ask why.
	Because Dana is straight up and he'll tell you your flaws.
	He's you screwed up.
	Like Dana will see on the camera and say, what the hell was he doing throwing something on the bus?
	What are you doing?
	Like, what were you thinking?
	Or what are you thinking jumping out?
	Or in that one fight where Khabib's like, give me the belt.
	I want my belt.
	Let me tell you something.
	If I give you the belt right now, here's what I think is going to happen.
	This place is going to go crazy.
	Shit's going to get ugly.
	I'm going to give it to you later.
	I can handle it.
	I'm not giving you the belt.
	Like, those are not easy conversations to have.
	Like, the average person will be like, all right, here you go.
	Let me give you the belt.
	No, the guy sticks.
	And for DC to say, a person doesn't make the same mistake over and over and over and over and over again, right?
	That's a tough thing to tell somebody.
	You know, that's a very tough thing to say somebody.
	So does a DC believe that, you know, and then I see a story with me, the change.
	My dad and I have the biggest debates all the time.
	Here's my dad and I's biggest debate.
	I would have my friends come over.
	I would say, dad, I think this guy's going to make a very big impact in his life.
	He said, no, he's not.
	I said, what are you talking about?
	You know what he would say?
	He would say, look how short he is.
	Look what he weighs.
	He said, this can't even discipline his diet.
	You think he can discipline to work?
	That's my dad, how brutal he was.
	I had a friend of mine.
	He would come over.
	Two guys would come over to our house.
	He'd call both of them Gordo.
	You know what Gordo means.
	Gordo means like a fatty boy.
	One of them never showed up again.
	The last time he was in the room with my dad, he was 25.
	He's 43 right now.
	Wow.
	Because he's afraid my dad's going to say, hey, Gordo.
	Hey, Gordo.
	That's my dad, right?
	How he is.
	I said, dad, you can't talk to people like that.
	He's fat.
	What do you want me to tell him?
	So he's gotten better over the years.
	He's 79.
	Now he's listening to this here.
	But he would call this guy Gordo.
	Now, another guy, he called him Gordo, George Palaio.
	He says, hey, Gordo, when are you going to fix that?
	Look at your pants.
	It doesn't fit.
	My dad would straight up.
	And by the way, my dad, is he the sweetest guy or what?
	He's nicest guy you'll meet, right?
	Most cerebral, smartest.
	Yeah.
	Like, it's almost like a real life Socrates.
	Real Socrates.
	Just a chill guy.
	Yeah, he's five.
	How tall is he?
	I'm 6'4'6'5.
	How tall is my dad?
	What would you say my dad is?
	I think he's about 5'9.
	I want to give him an intro to get 7.
	3'5'7.
	But he's just like this, right?
	You know what George did with it?
	What's that?
	He changed.
	George will make $3 million this year at 34 years old, 35 years old, right?
	But he changed.
	He decided to say, maybe this guy's right.
	You know what I'm saying?
	Maybe there's somebody that's given a feedback.
	So one day we're having a debate with my dad and I say, Dad, I think that guy can't change.
	He'll never change.
	Dad, I think that guy can't change.
	Patrick, I'm telling you, he'll never change.
	You think everybody is willing to work their asses off like you're working?
	What do you think the world is like?
	That guy is not going to change.
	He was right half the time.
	I was right half the time.
	Meaning, there were guys that I believe, but I bank on believing people can change.
	The story of my life is I believe people can change, right?
	There's a part of it where you wonder, it's so deep-rooted to the core that, you know, I mean, Nike contract, you know what I mean?
	The only UFC fight that's ever been canceled was 151 with Dan Henderson.
	You know this.
	It's the only one ever that, you know, Dana's like, and he, second chance, third chance, fourth chance, all of this stuff.
	You're talking about John Jones here, right?
	Yeah, John Jones was going to fight.
	What was the fight?
	It was another fight, and then Dan Henderson and Anthony Johnson, and then he got a lot of money.
	Test deposits.
	Yeah, so all of these things, and at last minute, Dana doesn't want to cancel a fight.
	Are you freaking kidding?
	I mean, who the hell wants to cancel a fight?
	It's a bad look on the sport, right?
	You have to refund cancellations, all this bullshit.
	Media is going to write about it.
	They're struggling.
	They're going out of business.
	Nobody's watching them anymore.
	Who the hell wants to answer all these questions, right?
	So yeah, I wonder who's in his ear.
	Well, Danny even said, Dana said it's, you know, it's impossible for me to bet on John Jones in a weekend in Vegas.
	It's impossible for me to bet on John Jones.
	Do you know how tough that is for you for a guy who has given people, not just him, he's given people so many seconds.
	He's like Jimmy Johnson.
	Jimmy Johnson liked to go get people who got arrested, who did this.
	That was his motto, right?
	Even Bill Belichick is good at doing that.
	He did that with a few different guys.
	I mean, Pat, in fairness, this isn't an industry where you're pulling guys out of Cornell.
	Totally right.
	Come on.
	But listen, neither is, listen, Michael.
	You're talking about Miami was?
	Miami Hurricane?
	That's what I mean.
	No, There's a place in this world for pirates still, bro.
	You know what I'm saying?
	I get there is.
	There's a place for pirates.
	But I think when John since I'll change, I think he wants to.
	That's the difference.
	Like, you see John's interview and he says, I'm going to change.
	I want to change.
	I think he wants to.
	Then there is somebody else in the year.
	Who is that?
	Is the right person in the year?
	Is the person willing to listen to the person in the year?
	But, bro, let me give you a different perspective.
	I guarantee you.
	Well, here's my question.
	And I'm going to open it up for you.
	Hypothetically, I don't know John Jones anywhere near where you guys.
	Everyone here has said that he's the number one guy of all time.
	Everyone.
	Why would he change?
	Maybe what is keeping him freaking mad and doing that is what is the reason that he's number one.
	I actually like Tiger Woods.
	When Tiger Woods changed, he wasn't Tiger Woods.
	I'm just saying, why would he change?
	That's a literal great point.
	Yeah, they happen from once on.
	But that's not the point, though.
	Listen, Tiger Woods.
	That's a great, great, great example.
	But Tiger Woods, his example was 16 porn stars, guys.
	This guy.
	And he was winning masters.
	Yeah, no, no, but that's not the point, though.
	The point that Tiger gets credit on what he said, which is not everybody can do this.
	We have a guy that I work with, Jose Gaitan, okay?
	We're sitting in my office one time.
	I'm interviewing this guy who wants to work with us.
	Jose's sitting over here.
	I'm sitting over here.
	We're in North Church, California, which is the earthquake capital of the world, right?
	Sitting talking.
	So, Johnny, tell me about your background.
	Who were you in high school?
	I'm asking him all these questions.
	All of a sudden, massive earthquake is going in the middle of the interview.
	Glass is going like this.
	Shit's falling down.
	No joke.
	This guy, I look to the right to look at the window.
	I look to the left.
	This guy's running out the window, right?
	Running out the door.
	He left the office.
	He went outside.
	Gaitan.
	No, no, not Gaitan.
	The other guy.
	Here's Jose.
	Sepad, we should probably leave the game.
	What do you think?
	I said, yeah.
	And he just goes, you know, real slow, gets up and starts walking on.
	Jose, dude, a hurricane could hit.
	Earthquake could hit.
	He's still going to be texting the person.
	What I'm saying is, like, people who can balance, shit's not going right in your personal life and you're still winning.
	Tiger could pull that off, right?
	Not a lot of people can do that.
	John Jones could pull that off.
	Not a lot of people can do that.
	But for every story like that you hear, there's a ton of stories that end with a horror story.
	And this guy's got a family.
	This guy's got people that love him.
	And at the end of the day, I get like even Michael.
	Michael was reckless.
	Totally get it.
	Michael was reckless.
	But to what level, though?
	Lawrence Taylor.
	I mean, it goes on and on.
	Yeah, but Lawrence Taylor.
	That story didn't end well.
	Lawrence still could have had a complete different career for himself.
	The problem is, though, not the sport, though.
	Not the sport.
	Life is bigger than sports, though.
	Life is bigger than sports.
	Yeah, the problem is sometimes these athletes, you know, they have this dark passenger, like this other side to themselves that allows them to rise to the occasion.
	And that darkness needs to eat and needs to feed, you know, so you have to do dark things in order to feed it.
	And sometimes they overindulge in it, you know, and it becomes, and it takes over who they are, you know?
	But you have to be able to be able to understand the difference between the two.
	You have to understand when it's time to feed the beast and when it's time not to, you know, and if you are getting overindulgent and feeding it, then you're out of balance because it's all standing.
	That's such a good point.
	For example, you know, Jordan Peterson says what?
	You got to be a monster.
	Be a monster.
	Okay, be a monster.
	Totally get it.
	You know, Tim Grover in the book Relentless.
	I don't know if you've read it or not.
	He talks about how all the great ones have a vice, like the internal vice that we deal with.
	Everybody here, we all sin in a different way, but ain't nobody in here free.
	If people went through your search history or they went through your phone text and the way you've done some conversations behind closed doors with people, we would all be embarrassed right now with some of the shit that we've done, right?
	But then, you know, we had Sammy the Bull Gravano comes and we go to a restaurant, Casa D'Angelo.
	I don't know if you know what Sammy the Bull is.
	Yeah.
	Sammy DeBull.
	So, okay, so we go to Casa.
	We're sitting, we're having dinner.
	One guy shows up, John Mason, okay?
	And he sits in the corner.
	We're having dinner.
	Sammy looks at John and he keeps staring at him, right?
	And John, John wanted to come.
	He was dying to come, but he didn't want to die to come.
	You know what I mean?
	Like one of those situations.
	So he said, hey, Sammy.
	Hey, Sammy, how are you?
	He's not even making eye contact.
	So Mario starts joking around telling Sammy, Sammy, I just wanted to let you know, while I was outside, John was talking major smack about your family.
	John's like, no, I wasn't.
	He's lying.
	No, when John is like, literally, like, doesn't realize that Mario and Sammy are playing a joke on this guy.
	Shook.
	But here's the part.
	So you know Sammy's capable.
	That's the part.
	The fact that he can go to a very, very dark side.
	You know, that's like the part about having a gun.
	You don't have a gun to use it every single day just because you have it.
	You have a gun so the other person says, hey, how you doing?
	Everything good?
	Awesome.
	Great.
	Thank you so much for coming to our liquor store.
	Now get the hell out of here, right?
	I'm capable.
	I think, John, we all know you're capable, but dog, just like, you know what I mean?
	Because this thing is, look, you know, if you're his agent, you're his manager.
	Everybody says, well, you know, this is part of darkness, it's part of this.
	How big of a contract would that Nike contract have been for John?
	I mean, he would have jumped into a different stratosphere when you came to who he was.
	That's a $100 million contract.
	That's going to be a massive contract.
	You're set, right?
	Well, I just didn't want to do it.
	So those are the things that for me, you went in life and we typically forget who gave us that one counsel or who was there in that moment that told us to do this and to do that.
	And we were about to screw up where you make that additional phone call.
	You know what I mean?
	You make that phone call to somebody.
	Were to make a list of names of people that impacted your life, you'd probably come up with 20 30, 40 names and say, at this point in my life I was 17.
	This person said this at 18.
	My wrestling coach said this at 19.
	A bartender I was working with the boss said this at 19 and a half.
	My mom said this at 20 and a half.
	The girl that left me said this, you know you got yeah so, but I I think I think the problem is also is the fact that you know we're, we're putting this on.
	You know who does he have around him at the end of the day, you.
	It has to come from here.
	You know what i'm saying and and I feel I may sound like hip you for saying this, but I think five grams of mushrooms would set John.
	I'll tell you what.
	It'd be a lot better for his career than five grams of the white, that's for sure.
	What do you think that would actually do for him?
	Because nobody gets better when they do cocaine.
	I'm gonna say this, other than Dwelling Cox if, what would the mushrooms do for if he did?
	If he did the toad, which is five me o dmt, not the regular stuff that people do with the.
	You know the, the other, you know um, that right there would would show him something you know, because it's a um, it's a totally different experience, but at the same time you uh you, you're almost reborn at that moment.
	You know it's a medicine that just completely, just changes everything that you even know as as reality, and even yourself.
	So I think he needs something powerful like that, because what he's searching for he may not even know anymore, you know.
	He just may be feeling that something is is not right and he's trying to chase it.
	So what do they call it?
	Chasing the dragon, and you never catch it.
	Never catch it.
	Rashad, have you uh, people see you on the street?
	You go to a bar, you go to a party?
	Do people still try to like, act like they're tough enough to take like?
	Do you?
	Do you have that happen?
	Or most people like, listen, this is my resume, my name is Rashad.
	Events I will destroy.
	Do average guys try to act tough around you or no?
	No, they don't.
	They know they don't, they don't, they.
	Don't you ever gone to a really good street fight, a really good street fight?
	Have I gotten to a really like, a really good one that you remember, like I mean, i've gotten to a street fight as a professional athlete.
	That's what i'm saying.
	Yeah, that part, not in high school, like as a professional athlete yeah, I have.
	What was that like?
	Well, I was, I was staying at this hotel in um in Toronto, filming this movie, and these guys came back and they were being really loud and they're like knocking on all the doors as they're walking by and I just got back from being, you know, from shooting.
	It was probably around 230.
	How old are you?
	In the morning i'm like maybe maybe 30 years old, so peak, so bad.
	So it's a bad bad, bad time, bad time.
	So I um, I go, I uh put my head out the door and I do my old man's voice.
	I'm like, hey guys, why don't you just shuttle down?
	You know just, you got this voice that you want to say he's got some good voices of bitches, so so I say that to him.
	And then they started getting lippy right.
	So i'm just like laughing.
	And then i'm like, all right guys, just just calm down.
	So uh, as I stuck my hat out the window uh, the door, they started walking down to my guys by the way, just three of them.
	Okay, there's three guys Walk down to my door, and I'm still like in, you know, still like in joking around mode, but these guys are kind of inebriated and they're kind of like kind of pressing the action.
	So I have my door open and they're standing right in front of my door and they're threatening me.
	They're going to do things to me.
	And I said, look, if you cross into my room, I'm going to let you have it.
	So I see one of the guys like that's more of the agitator than the rest of them.
	The other two are just kind of like backing him up.
	And then he walks forward and he doesn't even get to my room.
	I just started feeding him and I just started hitting him.
	Mushrooms, of course.
	Yeah, mushrooms.
	And I just started hitting him and then I just started hitting his buddies.
	And then the security guards came and, you know, I didn't get kicked out of the hotel, but it was.
	They didn't know who you were or they knew who you were.
	They didn't know who you were.
	There's no way they knew who you were.
	That's what I'm saying.
	How bad did they get messed up?
	I fed them pretty good.
	So if you can beat up three 20-year-olds at the same time, how many 10-year-olds do you think?
	It's like a stepbrother.
	By the way, is this a segue for our friend Paul to walk in on?
	Listen, are we ready to look at the Masvedol video?
	Because we went through street fight.
	I kind of want to see what he's going to say, even if we watch a couple minutes of it before we go to Paul's video.
	Go ahead.
	Go ahead, Gerard.
	Just real quick, before we get to Paul, you fought Chuck Liddell.
	Chuck Liddell, when I was growing up, the Iceman was the, like, I mean, he was untouchable.
	And then he got touched and he seemed to never be the same fighter again.
	And the same thing happened with Roy Jones.
	The guy was the greatest of all time.
	Tarver hit him with the overhand right and he was never the same fighter again.
	Do you think the concept of being a shot fighter is a real thing?
	Do you think you lose a step?
	And then the follow-up to that is, do you think McGregor is ever going to be the same guy ever again?
	Or is the book out?
	You can lose a step for sure, 100%.
	You know, a lot of guys, when they take a big shot like that, it's all about doing the right rehab.
	You know, when you don't get your neck and everything looked at and you don't, you know, restore the body, give yourself enough time off, then that button is easier to press, you know.
	But then at a certain age, you know, it's easier to turn that button off.
	So you only have so many fights in you, you know, and you, and if you take too many shots too early, then that fight, you know, is it the actual shots?
	Is it that you lose that air of invincibility?
	People aren't as afraid to come after you.
	Is it you actually lose a physical step or you had a hole there the whole time?
	Like maybe Roy Jones had that overhand right hold the whole time, just nobody threw it before Tarver.
	It's just what happens that these guys are untouchable and then all of a sudden three, four, five losses in a row?
	It's a combination of everything.
	You know, it's a part of the fact that they can't take a shot.
	Then it's another part of the fact that they're not used to taking a shot.
	And then, you know, when you do get hit with a shot, you kind of go into panic mode because you're not used to that or you start having those thoughts running your mind like, oh shit, not this happening again.
	You know, you start to start to worry about it and, you know, you're not able to recover.
	So it's a combination of different things.
	So when you look at a guy like McGregor, is the book out on him?
	Does he need to completely redesign his training module?
	Or is it just time?
	He had his run and it's over.
	I think he can rebuild.
	I'm looking at McGregor now.
	Have you guys seen McGregor now?
	He's massive.
	Oh, my God.
	He's big.
	He's big.
	There's no Wada, I guess, or anything like that going on.
	I don't know.
	I mean, he's still in a testing pool, so he has to be doing everything legal.
	I don't know how he's, I don't know what he's doing.
	It looks like he's trying to fight in the heavyweight.
	Looks like he's a gorilla.
	Yeah, I mean, listen, if he's still trying to fight 155, I don't know how he's going to make that weight.
	Not going to happen.
	No, he's really massive right now.
	What do you think he weighs right now?
	180 something?
	Yeah, maybe 190.
	I mean, he's got like that built where his shoulders look like it's hard to wipe his ass or something.
	You know what I'm saying?
	You would know what he said.
	I do know what you're saying.
	But I mean, I think he can do it.
	I mean, if anybody who can come back and do it is McGregor, because McGregor has, he was propelled by belief.
	You know what I'm saying?
	He's one of those guys who, you know, was like the Ali.
	He said it and he went out and did it.
	So he can do that again.
	Here's a video of Masvedal street fighting back in the days.
	Miami.
	Yeah, Miami.
	But put the audio so we can hear it.
	In jorts.
	Look at the jorts.
	Nobody rocks jorts.
	And his belt is not even at the right loop.
	Can you move that one?
	Okay, there you go.
	That's great technique, though, man.
	He has.
	You see how his hands are on the right?
	So he's catching everything.
	So the guy, even if he does land, he's getting kind of deflected off of his hands.
	He's not blinking either.
	I mean, he can't teach that.
	Nope.
	This guy's way bigger, it looks funny.
	Way bigger, but he's doing it.
	Masvidal's doing a good thing going to the body.
	Now he's going to go over top.
	How old is he here, Bob?
	I'm curious.
	20.
	Ooh.
	Them hands are fast, boy.
	The composure, though, that's what I'm looking at.
	See how composed he is?
	Yeah.
	Game red.
	Right there.
	He got hit there as well, by the way.
	Still going to the body.
	Look at Kimbo Slice in the background, bro.
	Oh, oh.
	Spinning backhand.
	But you know what it is, though?
	Like, this guy's getting off on him, too, but it's the posturing that George is doing afterwards to let the guy know that he hasn't landed anything.
	So the guy's losing confidence.
	Wow.
	So that plays as big of a role.
	He needs a role.
	Can you imagine the guy next door at the taco joint just waiting for him?
	I just wanted to be like, wow, I just wanted my touch.
	This is in Miami, by the way.
	I do this every week.
	Yeah, I don't know if you think I'm at.
	Oh, see?
	Oh.
	What is the laws against street fights?
	Like, I knew you had to.
	None of this is legal.
	No, no, you were doing the underground, you know, the fight club type of thing.
	All of this is illegal, right?
	You can't this illegal.
	A fight is illegal, but a street fight paying betting, that's the part that's illegal.
	That's illegal, yep.
	This is a throwback, man, to when they used to have fights on the barges outside of New York City because fighting was illegal in the turn of the century.
	So they'd get on the barges, float out, and then they'd have these massive fights.
	See, now that Jorge got his timing, now he knows he got his timing.
	It's over at this point.
	Well, this is also why there's rounds, right?
	Oh, yeah, Nik got him.
	Oh!
	See?
	That's what you're saying.
	A heavyweight just has to get around lunch, right?
	That's it.
	But look, it's the posture.
	It's the posture that he has, and he's not.
	Bro, and you think Kobe is going to take down Masvedal?
	I mean, I love Masvedol, man.
	He's my guy, but I just think that Kobe, he has that wrestling.
	He has that rustling.
	That wrestling is just at another level because he doesn't stop.
	The pace that he's able to wrestle, not a lot of people can handle that pace, you know.
	It's all about pace, you know.
	And if you're a guy like Kobe Covington who can keep pushing the pace and going, going, go, it's hard to defeat a guy like that, you know?
	And Masvedal, they trained together before, so there's a lot more to it, you know what I'm saying?
	And there's more to the story, you know what I'm saying?
	Kobe didn't call this guy out.
	He didn't call Jorge out because he didn't think that he could beat him.
	There's something that happened in the training that he remembers that Masvedal remembers that is going to put him in the middle of the moment.
	There's a little bit of animosity there, though.
	Oh, yeah.
	This one is real animosity.
	And this went for a few years of animosity.
	It's not like it's a new thing.
	Yeah, it's been brewing for a while, man.
	But, you know, it's hard to go against Masvedol.
	You know what I'm saying?
	Because Masvedol, he came out on the scene and he really showed who he was within the last couple years.
	And it seems like a lot of things have come together for him.
	But, I mean, Kobe Covington is.
	And Usman beat both of them, though.
	Yeah.
	Who does he think is going to win?
	Because that's your guy, right?
	I don't know.
	I would say if I was a guest for him, I would say he would think that Kobe Cummins is going to be my dad.
	Behind Kobe.
	Kobe's like the only guy that's given Usman even a little bit of problems.
	I mean, in the last few fights.
	Yeah.
	I mean, if it goes the sixth round and that last Covington was coming on, I couldn't believe it.
	I thought he was done.
	We went to your house.
	Of course.
	It's a second round.
	There's something very unique about Kobe, by the way.
	There's a dog fight in him.
	You know, there's a very unique thing about him about Masvedal.
	Here's the thing about Masvedal.
	You saw how that guy just punched Masvedal all of a sudden and Masvedal dropped?
	That could happen with Jorge.
	Jorge has a weapon.
	And if one of these things connect, Kobe's got a great, you know, he can take it, but Masvedal can give it.
	It'll be interesting what happens.
	I think Vegas is way towards Kobe than Masvedol.
	Is Usman looking at Gacci next or is he looking to move up in Wake Less?
	I think they might be trying to fight, who is it?
	Who is it?
	Like, who is it?
	Edwards or something like that?
	Oh, Edwards?
	Yeah.
	Not Gacey, really?
	But they're training partners.
	Oh, so that this is the whole like Leo DiMachito and Anderson Silver thing.
	Well, Gacey's at 155 or he's coming up, though, isn't he?
	No.
	After the Chandler fight, he's staying down there?
	You can say it on the Gerard, don't ever.
	Second guess.
	Let's show up.
	Paul, why don't you come on up here?
	Let's see Paul's history of getting punched in the face by Chuck.
	Yeah, play the video if you appreciate you.
	Yeah.
	Here you go.
	Play this.
	Paul was a lot bigger here, too.
	All right.
	Watch this.
	We don't have audio.
	Oh, my God.
	You notice he only has one glove.
	Just one glove.
	There's young Pat.
	Come over to Neck William.
	Chuck.
	Hey, Paul.
	How do you feel it, buddy?
	really enjoyed it okay he said it was 40 percent Okay, he had some grace, but he didn't try to.
	Okay, look how big Mario was, too.
	Mario was.
	That was good, though.
	He got him there.
	That never.
	Now, watch.
	Mario goes to the couch.
	By the way, when we asked everyone who they'd rather get hit, everyone chose Mario.
	But unfortunately, we got Paul here.
	No, no, Paul, come on up here, Paul.
	Line it up.
	Let Rashad put the gloves on.
	Nice.
	You see how this is going to hear you?
	Somebody stand behind Paul in case.
	The Apollo Creed special here.
	Can you move the camera so they can do it here?
	Yeah.
	Somebody get behind Paul just in case.
	I think Tyler can handle it.
	Aren't you going to make it fair and do it left-handed?
	Have Nancy get me.
	Just to Nancy.
	Okay, so you're preparing with Nancy.
	That says a lot.
	Good for you.
	Graphic designer punch you in the face.
	Okay, Rashad.
	Rashad, he signed a release.
	These are bigger gloves.
	He signed a release.
	He was also talking trash about your mama.
	Here we go, dude.
	You just, you really.
	Yeah, we're here on the PBD podcast, and we got Rashad Evans in the Paul.
	He's punched in the face by Chuck Waddell.
	He's not going to get punched in the face by Rashad Evans.
	So we're going to see what's going to happen here.
	So where am I going to say?
	Right in the front.
	Go over here.
	Yeah, go over here because.
	You got to start speaking Russian.
	Get him ready for the weekend.
	Behind Paul?
	Okay, somebody's going to be in the middle of the season.
	Just go stand there just in case.
	Believe me, last time it was...
	No, no.
	Gerard will be right behind you just in case.
	Hey, good luck, Paul.
	Nice to meet you.
	You're about to get punched in the face by UFC Hall of Famer.
	Pug it out.
	We need the Drago recording.
	If he dies, he dies.
	He dies.
	He dies.
	Paul, you ready?
	No, go ahead.
	You're going to mouth guard yourself.
	Okay, all right.
	Let's get the mouth guard for this guy.
	Who scared the mouth guard?
	It's okay.
	I think we have one.
	We got to do that.
	Remember, it wasn't a full.
	No, no, it was.
	I thought it was like 100%.
	No, no, I was gonna say, I thought he gave it like if Paul is trying to set himself up, you know, it wasn't a full punch in the face.
	What do you got going on?
	I don't know.
	All right, here we go.
	Hang on.
	If a tooth falls out, it's there we go.
	Hang on, can we get one still?
	Rashad Evans in the house.
	Hey, come on, Carl.
	Can we get UFC Hall of Famer about to knock out Paul Scarcego?
	Can we get a weigh-in picture here, Chin to Chin?
	Let's get this one on our live time shot here.
	It's okay, buddy.
	It's okay.
	David.
	Ready?
	Ready?
	Ding-ding.
	He said, thank you.
	Hey, hug it out, guys.
	It's over.
	Seven, eight, nine, ten.
	We're out.
	All right, so Paul, we need commentary.
	Tell us the difference.
	Chuck Liddell, Rashad Evans.
	Okay, here we go.
	Yeah, I mean, he hit me way harder.
	Holy shit.
	There we go.
	I mean, one of the good news is those are the 16, so when Chuck hit us, it was a smaller glove, too.
	But, yeah, you're feeling it, though.
	Oh, 100%.
	Hey, Paul, the good news, you got the day off, buddy.
	Yeah.
	I'm sorry, man.
	Paul, you're amazing.
	We appreciate the bravery.
	These gloves, you can kind of feel the knuckle come through a little bit.
	Hang on, Harry.
	These are the Tyson Fury models, man.
	Somebody, somebody get Rashad a Sharpie.
	We got to get that signed.
	Wow.
	Can we do it again?
	We weren't tell me you're joking.
	I'm joking.
	Okay, good.
	Because he was going to do it to you if you weren't rolling, not to Paul.
	We didn't have it.
	We didn't have Chipping.
	I'm feeling a little woozy.
	Paul, would you like tickets to his eyes are glossed over?
	This is no BS.
	Your eyes are talking about.
	Why don't we get Paul a seat?
	First of all, Paul, lunch is on us.
	Yeah, why don't we get Paul a seat?
	You're probably one of the only people I know that's been punched by two Hall of Famers, UFC Hall of Famers.
	So you ought to be proud of yourself to not get paid for any.
	By the way, Rashad, how do you feel right now about, you know, I make it bad, man?
	I feel bad about it.
	Don't feel bad.
	You alright, though?
	Look at the big red on the top.
	What was it like getting punched by Liddell in the ring?
	Is he the hardest puncher you ever faced?
	He's one of them, man.
	Chuck clipped me with a couple shots, and it was like it felt all the way down to my toes, man.
	You felt it all the way down to your toes.
	Oh, wow.
	Yeah, wow.
	Like, just shocked your nervous system.
	Like an electric shock.
	Interesting.
	Wow.
	That's like the next level of stuff.
	Because you've been punched a lot, and then somebody hits you after you're hitting it.
	That's what happens before you get knocked out.
	Before you get knocked out, like you get hit, and then your feet, like you feel it down to your feet, and then you can't feel your legs anymore.
	And you see people start getting a stanky leg, it's because they can't feel the feet.
	Stanky leg.
	You never heard of a tournament in that terminology.
	Well, rampage term that's what he said to me after I got knocked out by Lily Machita.
	But, yeah, so when you go see your legs and then you can't feel your legs anymore.
	So that's why the legs start getting funny and then you go down.
	So if Liddell's not the hardest, you've been hit, though, huh?
	I would say Keith Jardine was the hardest I got.
	Keith Jardine.
	Keith Jardine hits like a Mac truck, man.
	Really?
	Yeah.
	What a name from the past.
	Keith Jardine.
	Holy man.
	Dean of Mean.
	This might be a good segue to talk about who you're going to knock out this weekend or this coming up fight in what, less than 10 days?
	Yep.
	I'm fighting Gabriel Checo from Vegas.
	Mostly grappler, but he's got some hands.
	He can, you know, he can throw some punches, big, bigger guy.
	And that's January 28th in Miami.
	In Miami.
	You know where the fight is exactly?
	The location?
	It's going to be at the old Nickelodeon building.
	They bought that out and they've done a phenomenal job of making it like the Apex Center.
	And it's, it's, Habib did an amazing job.
	Like, and the whole production team, they did an amazing job with this facility.
	Is he representing you?
	Are you with him now with his camp now?
	Well, I'm with Ali Abdelaziz, and we're, you know, we're stable mates with Ali.
	But it's the Eagle promotions.
	And, I mean, you know, Habib, they spared no expense with this place.
	It's a state of the art.
	It's really props to him.
	Good for him.
	You think he's coming back or no?
	You think he's ever going to?
	Nah, I think, man, I seen Habib.
	Habib was probably like 210 pounds.
	No, he's a big dude, but not in a bad way.
	He's just like...
	Oh, not like the Prince Nassim way?
	Nah.
	No, no, he's gotten.
	He's big, though.
	He's big, though.
	He's just wide back, just look like he's just been eating and just doing.
	I always heard that about Anderson Silva, man.
	When guys I trained with like Edson Barbosa and those guys and Dante Rivera, they'd say like Silva walks around like 225 and cuts down into the 180s.
	Yeah, he's a big dude, too.
	Yeah, sharpie.
	Amazing.
	Sharpie.
	Homeboy.
	Sharpie.
	What should we expect for the fight?
	You said he's a grappler, but you're a grappler too.
	I guess Thiego Silva, you know, you showed the world that you could grapple and you pulled that out of the bag and in the strategy for that fight.
	What should we expect for this fight?
	I don't know.
	You know, the truth of the matter is that, you know, he's a grappler, so I'm sure he's probably going to try to get me down to the ground, be on top, and try to work in submission games.
	But he knows that I'm a wrestler too as well.
	So, you know, he's going to be willing to exchange with me, probably try to catch me with some punches.
	But I don't know, man.
	It's just, you know, it's hard to say what's going to happen in the fight situation, especially since I've been out for so long.
	And, you know, this is the first time.
	When's the last time you fought?
	Was it 2018?
	Dude, this is 40 years.
	Three, four, almost four years?
	Yeah.
	Wow.
	And are you excited?
	Are you nervous?
	I mean, you haven't fought four years almost.
	Yeah, I'm excited.
	I'm nervous.
	I'm all those things.
	I have a wave of roller coaster of emotions, but this is why I wanted to do it, you know, to be able to feel this feeling again.
	I mean, there's nothing like the feeling of a fight because, you know, you're not so much fighting an opponent, you're fighting yourself.
	And that's where the true challenge is, is really fighting yourself to bring yourself mentally there in order to be able to bring yourself physically there.
	Respect.
	I love it.
	Well, listen, man.
	Well, we hope we help with the tune-up with Paul.
	That was.
	Paul is, by the way, just to look on Paul's face, if you want to focus on Paul real quick.
	He seems very thankful.
	He's extremely grateful.
	He seems like he's got another story to tell.
	Paul, you could take the headgear off now.
	We're not going to hit you.
	No, no, no, don't do that.
	It's holding his skull together.
	Rashad, we are 100% rooting for you, bro.
	This is being awesome.
	You've got a lot of value tainers out there that maybe have never heard.
	You actually get into some of these topics and something tells me you've got a whole new fan base that's rooting for me.
	Paul, man, appreciate you for coming out.
	This was great.
	And we're going to have you sign one of these, one of these out here.
	Pick and choose and sign it so we know my man was here with us.
	Guys, we're going to do the next podcast as when?
	Do we have tomorrow tomorrow?
	Who's tomorrow with?
	Who's with?
	John Stossel?
	Oh, John Stossel.
	That's right.
	Danielle, Adam, and John Stossel tomorrow on the podcast.
	We'll see you guys there.
	Take care, everybody.
	Bye-bye.

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