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Sept. 15, 2025 - Dr. Oz Podcast
41:52
Charlie Sheen on Living with HIV, Addiction & Health Redemption | Dr. Oz | S7 | Ep 94 | Full Episode
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Time Text
Charlie Sheen.
I'm amazed that I'm that I'm actually alive.
Dr. Oz.
Were you scared that Charlie Sheen was gonna die from AIDS?
The experimental treatment.
I've been off a meds for about a week now.
And yeah, I'm a risk of my life, sure.
A sight of Charlie, never before seen.
I got a demon on board that's trying to kill me.
And the bombshell.
He never saw coming.
I apologize.
I'm a little off my game because right before I walked out here, I got some results.
Imagine holding on to a life-changing health secret for four years, and then finally opening up.
That's what happened with Charlie Sheen.
The day he announced to the world he was HIV positive.
Now Charlie saw it as putting an end to the latest rumors swirling around his often controversial life.
But I saw it as a landmark day for HIV and AIDS.
A disease still very much feared, but also still very much under the radar.
Like it or not, Charlie Sheen is shining a new light on HIV.
By it not just by living and coping with the disease, but by making it his mission to chase a cure.
That today he is here for his first one-on-one interview since he made the announcement that changed his life.
When I visited Charlie later at his home, in the time since he made that fateful announcement, Charlie stopped drinking and started soul searching.
Anchored by the memory of a very profound dream, which proved to be a premonition.
And I had a sign around my neck.
What did it say?
It said AIDS.
Well, how's it different now that you've been public about this big bird you can of HIV?
It's an incredible weight that's been lifted.
I only wish I'd I'd done it sooner.
Charlie Sheen is here.
Come on out, Charlie.
Thank you.
Wow.
It's a lovely, uh, lovely welcoming here.
I'm glad you're here.
I'm I'm thrilled to be here.
Thank you.
So you told me when I was visiting at your house.
Yes.
That be honest about your HIV status, being honest about it to the entire world, has made your life easier.
How is that?
It's made it a lot easier, and then I'm I'm I'm not uh that I'm not sitting uh hiding, uh uh protecting imprisoned by this deep dark secret.
It was it was like these shackles had been removed and and there was uh there was a sense of of real of of true freedom.
And and that led to very shortly like afterwards, the next day, the decision to to honor my my promise to myself and and to the the countless others uh suffering from this to uh to really uh take the reins and and and do something about this, do something that that that really matters, you know.
Thank you.
So thank you.
Three years ago, you were on our show.
Yeah.
We talked about your health.
Sure.
Uh you didn't feel you could be honest about your HIV status.
No.
For those four years that you kept it a secret.
Yeah.
Why did you feel compelled to do that?
Well, but I feel compelled to not be public about your HIV status.
I I just I I thought it would it would have um professional implications.
I thought um there would be uh potentially a lot of uh legal entanglement.
Um and well that that happened anyway.
Um let me just the one thing I have to say is as anybody that's claiming anything, um the the the absolute period, the end bottom line is that nobody is infected, and I told everybody.
So that's that's on the record.
So when you first heard the doctor utter the phrase, you have the HIV infection.
And I'm I remember the story you told as we ran about having that dream at age 28.
Sure.
A big placard saying AIDS on it.
Yeah.
Yeah, that was wow.
And so you had that premonition, but it's really different when someone actually tells you you have the virus.
It is uh unless you've lived inside that moment, it's not one that you can really put words on or or just I I can tell you, I don't remember it completely.
Um it's uh it your first thought, yeah, they they they got it wrong.
It can't be me.
Um it's uh it's a it's a it's a it's a tough moment.
I don't uh I don't I don't wish on anybody and and if if I can, you know, through you know, my my travels, whatever this this odyssey um takes me or guides me.
I can prevent others from having to live inside that moment, then that's what I'm going to freaking do.
Thank you.
Were you scared when you heard the diagnosis?
Were you scared that Charlie Sheen was gonna die from AIDS?
I I yeah, a little bit.
Um it wasn't so much fear of death in that moment, it was um you have to I I I had to get through a whole um that that that all the internal dialogue that that that deals with uh, you know, from from why me to to woe is me to um uh it just it's it's again it's it's it's a process.
Do you think the drugs and the sex addiction contributed to your becoming HIV positive?
Uh I it's it's yeah, I would I would say most certainly.
Most certainly.
Do you have any idea how you contracted HIV?
I you know, I I I think everyone that that most people that that have it um have a hard time with that with that question.
Um correct?
Um yeah, I I um I really wish I knew.
I I I I have I have ideas about um possible situations, but I I it's it's hard to sit here and answer, honestly.
Um yeah.
Well, how are you doing now?
Do you do you feel okay with on these medications?
Well, you know, I I I um yeah, no, it was it was it was it was going well for for for all that time.
Um and then I started hearing about some alternative stuff because when I when I when I came out when I went public, it uh you know, uh a lot of people came forward with a lot of uh uh treatments and and cures and and or uh or cla claims of such.
And uh and so uh if if you know what was uh being professed, if if any part of it was was true, then uh then I thought it was it was worth exploring.
Um I I if if if something else is out there, I'm gonna find it.
Um I'm I'm I apologize, I'm a little off my game because uh right before I walked out here, I got some results that I wasn't uh I was disappointed about, you know.
Uh and I know this is an experiment um that I I took a stroll down a different path.
Uh but yeah, I I had been on non-detectable and non-detectable and and tracking the blood every week, and then um, and then found out that the numbers were back up.
You know, uh to stay on your meds, stay on your meds, stay on your meds.
Michelle looked at me and said, uh well, you you look very you look very healthy, you look very present, very clear.
I told her, I said, Well, not on my meds.
Today Charlie Sheen opens up about living with HIV.
Right.
So we agreed, we embarked on this journey to chase the cure that we'd be brutally honest.
Sure.
With everybody.
So I'm gonna ask questions that are sometimes tough.
Sure.
But I want you to be able to answer them.
Yeah.
Some folks watching right now are gonna say Charlie Sheen is just manipulating us.
He's just doing this because he wants to change his reputation.
Okay.
What do you say to those critics who say this is just about improving your public image?
I mean, I I they're really entitled to believe whatever they want.
It's uh it's really none of my business or any of my concern.
You know, I I I know in my heart what I'm doing and why I'm doing it.
So I don't really give any uh any any I I I can't really even be concerned about that, you know.
You told me the day you announced publicly that your HIV positive that you did not want to be the face of HIV NAIDS.
Right.
And yet you've agreed to take on this illness in a very public way.
It'll end up resulting in you in you being the face of this illness for some people.
Um I mean, I I'm I'm okay with that.
Somebody has to be, but so around the time of your decision to make the announcement, right?
Uh we spoke a bit about the opportunity and obligation that you have.
And you sent me a poem.
It's really a story, but it's very poetic.
And it was your vision of what you might want to do with your life.
It's a passion you have, and I would appreciate if you could read this.
This is just a short part of it to the audience.
Oh, yeah, this one.
It sounds sort of like the treatment for a movie, in fairness, but then you are in that field.
Sure.
Um is this the first page though?
No, I abstracted it because I didn't want to take all your time.
But it's you don't like you didn't like what I did with his writing.
This is the the artist's mind.
I got edited.
Um this is from an idea I had for a show at some point.
Um, and and um after setting up the premise, um, I I spoke about that uh we'll we'll go through the medical front lines, the alternative backrooms, and at times the radically unsafe and uncharted catacombs and warrants that have been labeled or deemed as godless voodoo or unapproved junk science.
Shows called would be called Chasing the Cure.
Chasing the Cure will forever reweave the fabric of our essential belief system that we've been condemned to accept as the truth.
The worm will turn, the trade win trade winds will shift.
The worm will turn and trade winds shift.
Yeah.
So what is chasing the cure?
Explain that to everybody.
I again partially came out of a dream that I I saw myself um you mean to sign this for you?
Sorry.
Uh yes.
You will sign this.
It'll be on eBay soon.
Good.
I saw myself doing this show that was a hybrid um reality documentary style um following me through what I basically just described through the through the conventional uh uh the field and and and the not-so conventional approach, you know.
So Charlie allowed our cameras to follow him to his doctor's appointments, and he had quite a few.
And these are the first steps on his journey to chase the cure.
Oh, look at that.
Charlie Sheen spends his days working out.
Eating right.
And chasing the cure.
Good work, Mr. Sheen.
Good to see you.
Cool.
Thank you.
Tests and doctors play a big role.
Uh, right now we're heading to see Dr. Robert Heizinga.
He's uh he's been my doctor for years.
So still on your medication?
Yeah.
Okay.
Taking them every day.
Pretty much, yeah.
Um, we're gonna do a blood test that's looking for the smallest amount of the viral RNA.
And if we can't detect it, we know we're doing our job.
That the retroviral cocktail you've been on, it's just been amazing.
It's been amazing.
Well, it's been amazing for that for the number, I don't know how made it as good for me, you know.
Charlie's next destination, the Scripps Research Institute.
One of the world's top biomedical research facilities.
Ground zero in the search for an HIV vaccine.
This is Andrew Ward.
Andy, this is hers.
Hey, Andrew, how are you?
Please meet you.
It's a pleasure.
Right in.
Is there a vaccine on the horizon that that you foresee or that that could come out of the research that's actually done here?
Yeah, in fact.
We think this is this is one component of a potential vaccine.
So can I borrow that?
The problem with HIV and why it's so difficult to cure is it takes its DNA and puts it into your genome.
So it look it hides in your own genome.
So even if you can knock down the virus, which we have modern medicine does a good job of that.
If you stop taking the modern medicine, the HIV says, Oh, great, there's nothing stopping me.
I'm gonna start making more copies of myself, and you get a relapse.
Got it.
Charlie's chase for the cure continued.
Next up, renowned integrative HIV specialist, Dr. Miles Sparr.
Alright, let's have a seat.
The point of what I do is to say, definitely take these medicines.
They're working from what I understand your undetectable, your viral loads.
I am, yeah.
Which is great, but there's also a lot you can do to help make sure your health is optimal.
Well, that's where integrated medicine comes in.
Dr. Spar tackles diet and lifestyle changes.
Then Charlie's addictions.
So you're smoking.
Yeah, smoking.
How much are you smoking?
About a pack and a half.
So one thing I'll recommend is acupuncture.
Okay.
That will help with all the things we've talked about with the immune system, with inflammation, but also specifically with helping to quit smoking.
Yeah.
I want to introduce you to Michelle Ching, our acupuncturist.
Hi, Michelle Charlie.
Nice to meet you.
To supplement Charlie's conventional Western medications, Dr. Sparr suggests a widely used therapy from Eastern medicine.
Take your thumb and you'll stimulate the point.
Okay.
Points here throughout the week.
Michelle Ching is a nationally certified practitioner of Oriental Medic and licensed acupuncturist.
Well, that was interesting.
Seemed like there's a mantra.
You know, uh, just stay on your meds, stay on your meds, stay on your meds.
Then the bombshells.
As I was leaving, you know, Michelle looked at me and said, uh, well, you you look very look very healthy, you look very present, very clear.
And I told her, I said, Well, I'm not on my meds.
You know, I've been off my meds for about a week now.
And uh I always feel great.
Um and yeah, my risk of my life, sure.
Somewhat.
Um I was I was born dead, you know.
So that part of it doesn't faze me at all.
You know, there's a reason I told my mom on day one that uh the disease picked the wrong guy if it wanted to stay alive.
Well I was surprised when I heard that.
We had spoken at your home.
You said you could count on one hand the number of days you may have missed taking your HIV meds.
Sure.
Are you still off them?
I am.
When we come back, why Charlie went off his HIV meds?
And Charlie traveled to Mexico searching for an experimental treatment from a doctor I never heard of.
I drew some love from him, and I injected myself with him.
We did see some incredible results.
Didn't strike you as bizarre that he was putting his life at risk too.
Today, Charlie Sheen opens up about living with HIV.
All right, so let me show you a little chart that Dr. Hazenga and I made in preparation for the show.
She's been following your blood levels of HIV.
This is the viral load.
And with your permission, I'm gonna share this with everybody.
Please, by all means.
So back on July the 19th, 2011, you were diagnosed you had 4.4 million of these particles that they identified.
Kind of a lot.
A lot.
It's a lot.
And within six months, as you see from this chart, it's back to normal.
It's undetectable.
And I'm gonna point something out for everybody, but Charlie, especially for you.
It stayed undetectable in those three and a half years since you got it under control.
Sure.
So why would you take a risk of not taking a cocktail that seems to really be working well for you?
Well, actually, I didn't I didn't see it as as Russian roulette.
I didn't see it as a complete uh the dismissal of the conventional course that we've been on.
Um but this, you know, I'm not recommending that that anybody else do this.
I'm I'm presenting myself, I I I guess as as some kind of a guinea pig.
All right, so Charlie traveled to Mexico searching for an experimental treatment from a doctor I've never heard of until Charlie told me about him.
His name is Dr. Sam Tachowa.
And he claims to know how to cure HIV and AIDS.
I wondered why neither my team nor I had ever heard about this therapy.
Or Dr. Chachoa himself.
It's not easy to get in touch with him.
But I did finally speak on the phone with Dr. Chochowa about Charlie's HIV status.
He's the first adult that issued HIV.
The potential medicine has never done that.
He was still HIV positive five years after he started his HIV.
Antivirals.
And these are heroes now to zero taking my dreams.
Dr. Chachoa is not licensed to practice in the U.S. He resides and practices in Mexico, where Charlie Sheen recently visited him in his chase for the cure.
So you went to Mexico.
I didn't to visit with Dr. Chosua.
I didn't, yeah.
What's the treatment?
What what what's being done?
I it was a series of uh of injections um and then blood work.
Um and again, we did see some some incredible results early on.
Explain what what you saw that was encouraging.
That uh off of the the the med cocktail um that I was uh undetectable.
Um HIV titers were yeah not detectable.
Yeah.
Um and and and it and and it stayed that way.
I did an experiment that was uh I I didn't have any faith in, but I but I went along with it to dear friends that you know.
They uh withdrew their blood.
I I withdrew some of mine, and uh I added mine to their their test tubes.
Um the blood was then uh uh incubated, cultured for four days.
Um and when it when the results came back, um all three were undetectable.
So I I actually sat and observed this stuff.
You know, this this that actually happened.
Um and if you'd seen something like that, wouldn't you have thought, okay, this there might there might be something here?
Well, he is supremely confident.
Yeah.
Um I asked as many questions as I could.
We're still I'm still trying to understand what he's doing.
Right.
And you know, I've done a lot of homework on this.
Uh he mentioned some patents.
I went and I pulled these patents, they're 20 years old.
They're not his patents, but he said that they were published papers.
And I I gotta say, except for a little newsletter bulletin, I only found one published paper.
I'm always a little nervous when I see that long gap of time when people have been researching this and haven't gotten anywhere.
And I actually we spoke to someone at the NIH and said that they couldn't find benefit.
So that was the first major concern that I had.
But then something else happened that really concerned me.
Okay.
So when we spoke with him on the phone, he said something that that started me, something that I never thought I'd hear out of the mouth of a doctor.
So take a listen.
I drew some blood from him, and I injected myself with it.
And I said, Charlie, if I don't know what I'm doing, then we're both in trouble right now, aren't we?
It's pretty inappropriate.
And inappropriate and and and uh completely mind-blowing.
I watched that happen when he felt so confident of what he delivered that I was not uh I I wouldn't, my blood would not be any risk to him.
So what did he do?
Specifically, put a needle in you.
Yeah, I had a I had a I had a lump on my on my elbow um that I had drained about a week prior to that, and it was still a little bit of it was still there, so he he pulled some out of that and he stuck it in the top of his uh forearm.
I I mean this this stuff happened.
Uh so you can again you can see why I was developing more faith and more interest and and intrigue and into this uh the path this this this gentleman was was potentially taking me down.
Didn't strike you as bizarre that he was putting his life at risk too.
Yeah, it was it was radically bizarre, but uh but I I I look at my own life in in in context in relation to that, and I just figured, okay, it's just another just another Wednesday, you know.
Uh so and and you know, I um I I'm I'm I'm not making a case for any of this or or I I I'm not debating it, I'm I'm not defending it.
I I I don't this is not this is not my world.
Um but I I'm I'm just uh sharing the the the experiences that I that I witnessed.
So let me introduce everyone to Dr. Zenga, uh this Charlie's doctor and uh trusted resource.
So I'm just gonna have this open conversation.
Dr. Zenka, you're here two months ago.
Uh at the time we were we're speaking about how seriously Charlie takes his health and where the lapses have been.
What have you been telling your patient about his not taking the meds for the last month?
Charlie knows that he has been incredibly successful with this anti-retroviral cocktail.
It's incredibly helped him.
It's basically puts you in a position to live an inc an entirely normal life, normal life expectancy, normal quality of life.
And it would just break my heart if you did anything where you threw that opportunity, threw that incredible advance against this horrible disease away and went back to where we were several decades ago, where this disease was a killer.
And I it would just break my heart if you did anything to risk returning to that horrible part of our history.
Thank you.
Thank you.
I think you ought to be on your meds.
Your doctors believe that.
What would it do?
What would it require for you to go back on your medications?
I'm gonna take them on the flight home.
What am I, an idiot?
Let's take a break, we'll be right back.
Let's talk a little bit about the liver.
Okay.
But we don't believe my liver's ever looked like this, do we?
Not where you are now.
Got it.
This is Christmas future.
If you went back and started drinking again.
We're back with Charles.
So no secret that your life has been filled with great success as an actor.
Thank you.
Many of your fans are watching at home and in the studio.
Oh thank you.
Thank you.
But you've also been fodder for tabloids because of your history of addictions to sex and the drugs and to gambling.
So how about the effect on your marriage of addiction?
Did it hurt it?
The marriages?
It didn't help.
It didn't help.
Um I don't know that I'm that I'm cut out for marriage to to begin with.
Um I'm I'm over three.
Uh it's I'm just not good at it.
Um so yeah, no, I I would say that that that certainly played a part.
Yeah.
How much money do you think you lost because of your gambling addiction?
Wow.
Uh how's your math?
Um it was a lot.
It was a lot.
It was in the millions.
It uh yeah, but it was just sports.
I'd just been on sports because I wanted to lose money over a three-hour period.
Not just a roll and dice for a cut of the deck.
Um, but at gambling is like just like drugs, because you know, you you call a bookie, you make a bet, it's like calling a dealer.
Uh I had an episode uh sorry, shoot.
Uh I had an episode uh June 9th.
And that very night, I had a I'd had a wonderful dinner with my mom, Janet, and I was walking up the stairs.
And I said, okay, I can either take half a Lumesta, the prescribed sleeping pill, and and and go to sleep, and then and you know and and this this great evening properly, or I can hit the pipe and go to the ER.
And it and I I I've I shook hands with the universe that night and I said, we're done.
Nothing since that night.
No drugs since June 9th, 2015.
Yeah, that actual night.
If you finished your dinner with your mom.
Right.
And you could have taken half a sleeping pill or take a hit with the cocaine and end up in the ER, it seems like it was actually a cry for help.
Someone look at me.
I'm I'm not in a good spot.
Someone pay attention to me.
Someone intervene on me.
I think okay, we could follow it back to that.
Yeah, I didn't see it as as such in in the moment.
You know.
So let me if I can, since you talked about stopping things.
Sure.
Um, I got your labs again with your permission.
Right.
Dr. Zenga's help.
Uh I just looked at your liver function.
Of course, your liver is what has to detoxify you, not just from drugs but from alcohol.
Sure.
So these are your liver functions over the last year.
Look at this little graph there.
You notice it's low, low, anything let's say less than 200, and it's not a crisis.
Right.
Right.
Notice what happened on July the 13th.
A huge spike Of this year.
That was Mexico.
That was Mexico?
Yeah, it was a vacation in Mexico.
That actual month, yeah.
So what happened that would torture your liver like that?
That's a lot of damage to your liver.
That's a request.
My face off.
That drinking my face off.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Yeah, that was that was like the that was one of the last great runs.
It's a lot of alcohol.
A lot of liver functions into that state.
What's the next uh number on the graph?
Yeah.
You put the graph back up for Dr. Sheen, please, for Dr. Sheen's benefit.
So what happened after that?
After that, you came back to normal.
How long have you been sober for?
Since the day after I did Matt Lauer, because I made that decision on the plane going home from that interview.
That's when that happened.
And you've gotten sober in the past.
What's different this time?
Uh I I'm I'm different.
I'm different.
Thank you.
You know, doing this alone is hard.
I've watched addiction.
Destroy patients of mine, guests on the show, members members of the audience.
Uh the lots of consequences of what we do in our lives.
So I wanted to share a surgeon's eye view of how I see the body, because I thought it might help you.
And this is something that I think we all benefit from.
This is, I think, a way of looking at the ravages of addiction.
So we took a little trip at the Georgia City Medical Center in New Jersey, very close to my home.
Right.
Take a look.
This is the morgue.
Think about a morgue.
You should learn a lot of things by seeing what went wrong.
That's how we learn from our mistakes to make it better.
So when people die, we take out their organs, in part because we learned so much about the mistakes they made.
Okay.
But sometimes people die who are pretty healthy.
And so I actually have someone like that.
So I can show you what normal is.
Hmm.
Wow.
This is fascinating.
The lungs, these are two normal lungs.
Okay.
And you smoke.
Jeez.
And get pneumonia, it lives like that.
So compare these two.
Yeah, exactly.
This is pretty hideous.
Wow.
Does this feel boggy to you, this one?
You feel like yeah, it's it's it's about three times the weight.
So let's move on.
Let's talk a little bit about the liver.
Okay.
It's an organ is precious.
It's the largest organ.
And if you hold the liver up and compare it to this.
Jesus.
Was that cerrhotic?
It's you can see why they called it that.
You see how it looks like a little brox in here?
Yeah.
Cerrosis means it's like a rock.
Compare them.
Yeah.
Again, the weight is totally different.
The surface texture is ridiculously different.
The thing about the liver, though, is our body's waste control system.
It's the one that clears out toxins.
It's a big filter, yeah.
So there are times I look at your laboratory tests when the function of your liver has been a little elevated.
Elevated.
Yeah.
Demonstrating that you're actually going from this because of inflammation and irritation and live and death of some cells towards this.
Right.
But we don't believe my liver's ever looking like this, do we?
It's not where you are now.
Got it.
This is Christmas future.
If you went back and started drinking again.
Now that shift gears a little bit to my specialty.
Okay.
The heart.
The organ itself is remarkable because that's like a python coiled in the chest.
Wow.
When people have heart attacks, it grows dramatically.
And cigarettes are big cause of that?
Drugs, especially cocaine.
Sure.
Big cause of that.
Alcohol.
What did my dad just go through?
He had a uh he had a quad bypass.
So they took veins from his leg and they took a chest wall artery.
Okay.
And what they realized when they studied him, they realized that these little arteries here, these little tiny, almost feathery vessel there.
Right.
That vessel was blocked.
This is called the widowmaker.
Uh this little uh it itty bitty thing, size of a capalini, is the artery that brings life-nurturing blood to the heart muscle.
Wow.
The tube that connects the heart to the rest of the body is called the aorta.
And it looks like this.
So go ahead and feel that.
Okay.
Now, what ends up happening when you have hardening of the arteries like your dad had that tube turns to this.
Jeez.
There's really no comparison.
This is like a steel pipe that got rusted.
Yeah.
It's like a nice pemploin hose.
Um Reversible?
This doesn't go back to normal.
Got it.
But it doesn't have to go back to normal.
It just has to not get worse.
Got it.
And this man probably didn't think he'd be here right now.
This man didn't think he'd be here right now.
So now that you've had a chance to process the little autopsy visit.
What struck you the most?
What struck me the most was uh was uh lungs and and liver.
Um yeah, it's uh I haven't quite processed the that that uh that's where I could be heading, um, even though I was holding it in my hands uh in its its worst possible state.
Uh but it it's it's it's it's it's educational.
It's it's uh it's deeply impacting.
Do you think your dad's near death experience all those years ago when you were so young influenced some of the life's choices you've made?
Sometimes it seems to me that you put yourself at risk.
Sure.
Yeah, I was I was born dead.
You have your father's dog tag from Apocalypse now.
Right.
And you have the the back fin of Jaws.
Yeah.
Why do you store those?
Well, they're my two favorite films ever made.
And if you think about Jaws, it's uh it's it's it's a monster that you seemly cannot kill, which is what I've got.
Um but they finally killed it through teamwork.
And with apocalypse, um it is one man's journey um into the unknown, into himself, into the darkness.
You know, and so when you put those two together, it's now that that display makes perfect sense for this the next phase I'm embarking on.
So you've described your journey.
Chasing the cure for HIV in AIDS in a way that's sort of similar to your your dad's journey in Apocalypse Now.
Yeah.
Has your diagnosis of HIV brought you closer to him?
Absolutely it has, yeah.
Uh something happened with with with he and I. We were uh we're we're such better friends these days than we've ever been.
We don't agree on everything, obviously.
I mean, what what what son and father do, but it's uh no, he's he's he's a special cat.
And I'm I'm really lucky to have him, you know.
And uh there was uh a story about you being called back to the visit with your father when he was filming Apocalypse Now.
He'd suffered a heart attack.
Yeah.
He was 36, I think.
He was, yeah.
Yeah, I was 10.
So at age 10, you're watching your father in a foreign country fighting for his life.
Yeah.
Did you have a fear that he would die at the time?
Did it influence how you think about death?
I I saw him um when I'd last seen him prior to that to the trip back to the Philippines, uh, he was vibrant and young and in shape and handsome and looked like a look like a movie star, you know.
And uh when I saw him again, he was on a cane.
He was on a cane, and he just he didn't, it wasn't, it wasn't my dad, you know.
Did you think your dad's near death experience all those years ago when you were so young, influenced some of the life's choices you've made.
That it uh it sometimes it seems to me that you you put yourself at risk.
Are you changing?
I get dead.
I yeah, I think I think I was for a while there, sure.
Yeah, I was I was born dead.
Um seriously, I was born dead, and I uh what do you mean you're born dead?
Well, I couldn't, they couldn't, there was no, I wasn't breathing, there was the umbilical cord was taller, I was completely blue, there was no heart rate, there was no brain, there was nothing.
And my dad was in the room and he said, let's let's call a priest and the doctor, this gentleman named Erwin Sheabone, that's why my middle name is Irwin.
I would have preferred Shea Bone.
Uh that's much cooler.
Um he started beating me and beating me.
He he told my dad, he said, you do your job and I'll do mine, and he brought me back to life.
So knowing that, I think I I think I might have uh played into that a little too much at times.
Um just for those, just for those couple decades.
Um but uh I I'm I'm amazed that I'm that I'm actually alive.
Um but I'm also I I'm I I do beat myself up a um from time to time about why it took me so long to to really start being responsible knowing I got I gotta I got a I got a demon on board that's trying to kill me, you know.
Um I can't change any of that.
I can't go back, I can only learn from it.
But it's uh it's there's a lot of what was I thinking?
Uh well I guess I wasn't, you know.
What we've learned is that when people go off their medicines, it's not just the viral load that goes up, but the amount of inflammation.
That's very, very apropos.
Charlie, because your inflammation levels went up a hundredfold over the last several weeks.
We're back with Charlie Sheen.
So I what I what I do think is important is finding a cure.
The chase for the cure, the absolutely with your passion, your business.
So I've asked Dr. Michelle Cespedes, Tespedis.
I've said it wrong every time possible.
But Dr. Cespedis uh is a world-renowned infectious disease specialist from Mont Signat Hospital here in New York.
So, Dr. Tespidies.
Help me, Charlie, and everyone else understand.
If you're if you're chasing the cure, how will you know if you have it for HIV?
So it's interesting.
So to build upon some of the research that Dr. Ward from the Scripts Scripts Institute mentioned, HIV has a part of it when it's making copies to that go on to infect new cells, that it actually inserts some of its information into our cells, into our DNA.
When you're taking HIV medicines, we suppress more babies or more copies being made to go on to infect.
But these cells feel that pressure and kind of essentially go into a foxhole, go into a resting state and sleep until that pressure is gone.
The definition of a cure would be even if I stop taking medicines, these cells that kind of had hidden HIV DNA DNA in them either are all awoken and we kind of get rid of the pool or the reservoir of these resting cells, or we find a way to actually put them in a permanent vegetative state so they never wake up.
And then the potential for actually ongoing infection or to ever have a viral load again is gone.
That's the goal.
That's the target.
That's the goal.
So the risk of going on and off medicines, what we've seen consistently over the years, is that the virus now has more chances to figure out how the medicines work and to outsmart it.
And what we say develop resistance.
The other thing is when someone becomes detectable in the amount of virus that they have in their system again, they can transmit to others.
And now what we've learned is that when people go off their medicines, it's not just the viral load that goes up, but the amount of inflammation, the your body's response to recognizing that there's something there that shouldn't be there.
So now some of the biggest killers of uh people who do have HIV are not these old opportunistic infections that we've spoken about, or these these infections that really got you when your immune system was weak.
We know we can keep your immune system strong, or there are other ways.
But what we're seeing is that people are having reactions related to this rise of inflammation.
And now what we see in this day and age, the more likely things to kill our patients with HIV are actually cardiovascular disease.
Uh liver and kidney problems related to your body's response to having virus around again.
It's interesting that you know your father has you have a family history of cardiovascular disease.
And let me just add, and that's very, very apropos.
Charlie, because your inflammation levels went up a hundredfold over the last several weeks, and with your family history of the heart disease, this is exactly what we talked about in terms of inflammation aging you prematurely and hastening these, you know, old age diseases and making them happen 10, 20 plus years earlier than they otherwise would have.
Absolutely.
This has been very difficult for you, I know.
Uh sure.
You're brave.
Thank you.
Embark on the chase.
Thank you.
And I want to keep sharing your journey with the entire world.
And as long as you're willing to continue to be brutally honest, warts and all, about your journey, we will do this together.
Thank you very much.
All right, so you committed to getting your blood drawn.
Sure.
on the stage with a couple hundred witnesses.
Why not?
On your chasing of the cure.
Let's do it.
Let's do it.
Come on back.
Maybe something about the mania is pushing you to the addictions that are much more dangerous for you than the HIV.
So we're going to run these studies.
Okay.
You need multiple dots to connect to decide if something's working or not.
Sure.
And we'll share your insights together with anyone else who's involved in your care as you desire it.
Excellent.
We're all done.
It's easy to judge Charlie Sheen from the outside looking in.
And rightly or wrongly, a lot of us have.
But the truth is we all have inner demons.
Charlie's are just more extreme, more public.
We can all learn something by watching him wrestle them.
Now Charlie says he's chasing the cure for HIV.
But I hope he also chases the cure for the demons within.
They pose as much as a threat to his health, if not more, than HIV.
So I hope as I continue on this journey with Charlie, you'll continue with us.
Because together we can all learn something about chasing the cure.
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