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Sept. 11, 2023 - Dr. Oz Podcast
42:40
Dog the Bounty Hunter on Grief After the Death of His Wife | Dr. Oz | S11 | Ep 19 | Full Episode
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Dog the Bounty Hunter.
There will never be another Mrs. Dog.
His story of love and loss.
I've lost all fear of dying.
And life after Beth.
I've heard that things get better.
To me, they're getting worse.
Plus, R. Kelly's former crisis manager, the whistleblower from the singer's camp, reveals what he saw from the inside.
Coming up next.
Are you ready for season 11?
Yeah!
Doug the Bounty Hunter quickly became a household name when his first reality show premiered 15 years ago.
By his count, he's captured over 6,000 fugitives throughout his career.
That's a lot of people.
But this year, he faced his toughest challenge yet.
Take a look.
Since 2004, Dog the Bounty Hunter and his wife Beth have brought America on wild manhunts.
Bring me the dog!
Intense standoffs, huge drug busts, all to catch those who jump bail.
Let's go.
There's a manhunt now.
After a stint behind bars, a young Dwayne Chapman, better known as Dog, found his life's mission to follow the devil's herd and become a bail bondsman.
We're going to jail.
He married Beth, and as a dynamic duo, Dogg and Beth chased criminals throughout Hawaii and Colorado and grew their family, many of whom have followed in the family business.
Over a decade on television, countless criminals brought to justice, and 30 years together, Dogg and Beth faced their last great challenge.
Beth was diagnosed with throat cancer.
It eventually spread to her lungs and she passed away on June 26th.
She was our lion tamer, the Chapman families.
I cannot believe that she's gone.
This is not possible.
I want to wake up from a dream.
You okay?
Yes.
Thank you for being here.
Thank you for having me.
You are my doctor, Oz.
I'm sorry.
Thank you, brother.
I'm honored to play that role.
I want to talk about you, about your beautiful wife, and some of the things that have gone on in your life.
You called her the heart and soul of your operation.
Yes, sir.
What does she mean to you, and how are you doing today?
Two questions, right?
Well, she was...
I was the boss.
I am the boss now.
And she was my everything.
And I'm trying to make it.
I keep having dreams, her in heaven.
And the last one I had, she was water in a garden.
And I snuck up behind her.
I used to do that a lot.
And she turned around and said, Big Daddy, what took you so long?
So I'm trying to stay here.
You've got a role to play.
And I was looking at some of the social media feeds, and she tweeted a beautiful little note about how she was getting through life.
She was heading to the beach in Hawaii, and two weeks later she was gone.
Yes.
And that's fast.
And your daughter just opened up about the difficult final few weeks of her life.
There's a SurvivorNet website that talks to survivors.
Yes, sir.
Was she choking on her cancer?
Is that what you felt was happening?
Well, she...
What happened was she...
I saved all this for your show.
She was going to go to a retreat for a couple weeks with Gene Simmons' wife, Shannon.
So she was all excited.
It had been the second time she went.
To do a speech she gave at a church, she did a steroid to help her throat.
So she asked the doctor for another one and they said, okay here, but when you do, you need to take this Vicodon because it calms you down a little bit.
Well, she would not do any kind of drug at all, all the way to the end.
And so she snuck the steroid and didn't take the Vicodon.
So she went to the bathroom, she was getting ready to get in the shower, and she said, Big Daddy, look at me.
I said, I am.
And she said, please let me go.
I kept saying, I'm not going to let you die.
I...
Lean on me.
That's what you've done your whole life.
I will not let you die.
So, I wondered after she died, we had a ceremony and they're like, let's celebrate her life and all that and let's let her die.
I said, no, in Hawaii when you go to sleep it's called You go, moi, moi.
Moi, moi.
And so all of a sudden I thought, listen, I'm just gonna let her down to moi, moi.
And I didn't realize what I was doing for about a week later.
I didn't and won't let her die.
So I kept my word.
She didn't die.
She went to sleep, as the Bible says, in the Lord.
So, you know, her toothbrush is still there today.
We were not ready for that to happen.
When the doctor came over, she was talking about going on this trip in 21 days, and the doctor said, Beth, you won't be here in 21 days.
Then she said, if you weren't doing the THC and the CBD oil, you'd have been dead six months ago.
And she started feeling really good, right?
She wasn't high, she just said, I gotta go to work.
So was her idea to tape this last documentary series you have?
Oh yeah, that's all her.
She, like, I'm showing it all.
I walked in the room one time, she was showing her bald spot.
I mean, it takes a lot For a woman to share the bald spots there.
Oh, yeah.
And this is from the chemo that she had taken.
Yes.
One treatment, took her hair out all over her body.
Boom.
What kind of advice were you getting from friends?
I know one of your friends said, which sounds crazy to say this to you, but said, man up.
Oh, that advice.
So, I have a brand new CPA accountant, Michael Morgan.
And he said, I want you to man up, Dog Chapman.
And I understood what that meant.
The man up meant take care of stuff.
Well, quit your bawling.
You know, she always, I wear shades a lot because I cry a lot.
She used to call me the crybaby bounty hunter.
Yeah, I could laugh.
So that meant, shut up, quit your crying, to me.
Because that's what she would have meant with it.
That's hard to do.
More with Dog the Bounty Hunter after this.
Disgusting supermarket behavior.
This disturbing new trend you have to see to believe.
Plus, introducing HealthCorp.
Why do you keep getting him in a headlock and popping his pimples?
Because I can.
I'm his wife.
Her nails are very sharp.
And this week, Dr. Pimple Popper makes a surprise appearance on the witness stand.
Just gently squeeze and get all that out.
All new Oz.
That's coming up tomorrow.
You know, I'm a little bit concerned about if they start using mace or pepper ball guns or things like that.
Those things are definitely very, very harmful to me right now.
So, you know, there's a lot to think about, but I don't want to be that person that's laying in that bed.
I don't want to be that person.
If I'm going to die, I'm going to die in my boobs.
Really a beautiful woman.
Thank you.
Oh, God.
Inside and out.
That was Beth Chapman opening up about her cancer battle on the new show, Dog's Most Wanted.
It's an action-packed show, but it also documents Beth's final months alive.
Dog, you've seen death.
You've seen pain.
Yes, sir.
How has the loss of Beth affected your views on death?
Well, I don't know...
If you can say for sure there's a God.
I mean, some people, Christians, yeah, there is for sure a bull crap.
How you know?
I'm hoping 100% that there is.
And if there is, probably so, then I'm going to see her again.
Have you seen her since she's passed?
You know, I think I feel her.
I feel her a lot.
I feel little things that she said.
She had 30 million hits.
30 million hits on a segment.
And I walked outside and I go, alright, you won.
And we competed all the time.
So for me to say you won was, she knows that I lost.
But yeah, she had more fans than I have.
I never do that.
You feel lost now?
So, I've heard that things get better.
To me, they're getting worse.
And then she said, I put her name on my chest for her birthday.
Can I see?
Sure.
So she said, Big Daddy, you're going to take my name off your chest.
I go, are you stupid?
I would never do that.
She goes, listen, I know, you know, you're Jericho Apache, you're going to have a girlfriend.
And I said, probably so.
Don't you get married, Big Daddy?
And I go, Beth, I won't.
She goes, listen, you know the Bible says that I get to go help Jesus prepare a place for you.
Don't let the angels evict me.
That's pretty heavy, right?
So I've told all my children, I'm never getting married again.
And I'm raised in the area where if you have a girlfriend and you're having sex and sleeping with her and You're not married and Jesus comes, you're going to have a problem, right?
Right?
So I'm just asking, Lord, just, you know, forgive that part because I can't do that.
So one of the hardest things, I'm a heart surgeon.
Yes, sir.
So one of the unfortunate realities of heart surgery is not everyone makes it.
So, I've got to deal with grief and folks who've been married for a long time, love each other dearly, and one member passes.
Too often, the spouse follows along.
Follows quick, right.
Yeah.
I mean, a lot more than you'd want to be true.
And a lot of what will define you is how you're going to cope with this, especially over this next year.
So, this month, this will be the first...
Her birthday's coming up, right?
Next month?
October 29th, yes, sir.
First time without her.
So...
How you celebrate that, how you remember her is going to be important.
And she was a pretty big holiday person.
So how do you celebrate the holidays without the holiday maven?
Well, every holiday.
She was not Irish and she celebrated St. Patrick's Day, okay?
So I know that I have to do holidays in her name because that's how she was.
The last Christmas seems, doesn't it seem like a month ago?
And she said, honey, this is my last Christmas with you.
So I was having a problem.
And so...
You're trying to make sense of why it all happened.
Yeah, and I... The first...
We had two ceremonies, one in Hawaii and one in Colorado.
And that's the first time I've ever said this.
I had Dave and my brother take ashes from the barbecuer...
I spread them on the ocean because I didn't want to throw the ashes away.
They said, you got to give...
I said, I ain't going to throw them away.
I'm not going to spread that all over.
I wouldn't have anything of her.
So the ashes are staying in the box.
I'm not going to scatter them like all these people want to do.
But I was in prison in the 70s.
And I told my mama, I need a woman.
Mama said, go to God and pray.
I prayed.
I said, I am loathsome.
I need to love someone.
I want to be my dog.
I need a woman, Lord.
And lo and behold, a week later, I bonded out Beth for stealing two lemons at a Safeway.
Is that how you met her?
Yes.
And she says, when she saw me, she looked at me and she said, oh yes, he will be mine.
And so I... Yeah.
No, I really...
I went to her with everything.
I confessed too much.
And I said things to her.
I really...
I never was away from Bethy over seven days, maybe, and the whole relationship.
Because she was so Beth...
Where are you at?
I go get my hair done.
She's like, you've been there an hour.
I miss you, Big Daddy.
Where are you?
She burglarized my phone.
No, she put trackers on me.
I've got all that going on.
I thought I was the only guy.
I didn't find my friends.
No passwords allowed for me.
You were so close.
There were so many things that were dear to you of hers.
I was really struck.
I felt the pain personally when I learned that you'd been burglarized.
Yes, sir.
That folks had stolen things from you that are irreparable because they were best.
Right.
If you can, what is going on?
How'd you find that out?
What did you do when you heard that this had happened?
Well, I got a call, said the office got burg-riced, and she had two tasers.
Someone got one of them, okay, because she was four ahead of me in tasing.
She walked in, the positive ID, we'd all, you know how we do two-minute warning?
It's a positive ID. She walked in, pow!
I mean, that's it.
They're down.
Cuff him, Big Daddy.
So that to me meant a lot.
And so I think they know who did it already because I give the guy 48 hours.
I still had mercy.
Where mercy is shown, mercy is given.
And I've been given a lot.
There's a lot of forgiveness in you.
And this is another place you can probably show yourself.
Hey, coming up.
Dog needs your help.
We want to identify the man we just talked about who robbed his store.
And we've actually got the suspect's pictures.
Oh, you do?
Yeah.
We got blindfolded and she led us to a secret location.
A former recruiter for NXIVM reveals all.
She jumped off the table like she was being electrocuted.
If you're Brandon, then you're a slave.
Yes.
That's coming up on Tuesday.
We're back with Dog the Bounty Hunter.
He has a new show called Dog's Most Wanted, but he also has an active case and he needs your help.
Take a very good look at these photos, right?
This is the suspect that police believe may have robbed Dog Store in Edgewater, Colorado and stolen items That belonged to his late wife, Beth, including the taser.
We joke about this stuff a little bit, but when you lose someone that's dear to you, then you lose the things that they gave you.
You're stealing their memories.
So if anyone out there knows anything about this man, head to DrRoz.com slash crimehunters and we'll have the contact info for the Edgewater Police Department there.
So you gave this guy 48 hours.
Yes, sir.
Which I think was really forgiving of you.
He didn't act on it for whatever reason.
Maybe he missed the message.
Maybe he's too scared.
What do you have to say to him now?
Time's up over, pal.
Well, he's not going to turn himself in, I don't think.
Listen, along with Dr. Oz, there'll be a little cash involved, too.
You want to tell?
All right.
Yeah, I got a cash reward.
All right.
Come on, Steph, sit for a second.
Thank you.
So, one of the things that I've noticed with grieving families is that...
Folks who are unethical target people in pain.
Yes, sir.
Because they know they can take advantage of you.
Yes, sir.
This applies to giving people opiates.
It applies to teaching folks bad habits.
It also applies to stealing their money.
So let me ask you probably the most important question of all.
You're going through a dark period.
What's your best advice for Americans out there who are grieving like you are now?
What's going to get you through it that can get them through it, too?
You've got to come on Dr. Oz's show.
I thoroughly enjoyed meeting you.
Love you, love you.
God bless you.
Love you, love you.
Love having him.
Keep best memory alive.
Dog's Most Wanted.
It airs on WGN America, Wednesdays at 9 p.m.
Eastern.
Check it out.
It is always fabulous to have you in our screens.
God bless you.
Make sure to check it out.
Remember, if you think you know anything about the robbery of dog store or the suspect seen in these photos, please head to dros.com slash crimehunters right now.
We'll get your insight out.
Are you a true crime junkie?
A secret sleuth?
If so, we need you to help solve the crime.
Go to Facebook and join the Dr. Oz Investigates Group to become a Dr. Oz Crime Hunter.
We'll be posting exclusive evidence, clues, and special police bulletins.
Look closely because you have the power to crack the case.
Become a Dr. Oz Crime Hunter today.
Up next, an exclusive update on R. Kelly.
His former crisis manager is here revealing why he resigned.
Plus, R. Kelly is being arraigned today on prostitution charges in Minnesota.
The accuser's lawyer is here speaking out.
In today's true crime, an exclusive update on a horrific story that we have been following since the beginning.
As the months go on, the national case and shocking accusations of sexual abuse against disgraced superstar R. Kelly keep rising.
From the beginning, he has always denied every allegation.
There are pending trials in three states now.
In New York, Illinois, and Minnesota.
What does the future hold for R. Kelly?
And will the mounting evidence send him to jail?
Today, we have the daytime exclusive.
R. Kelly's former crisis manager, Darrell Johnson, is here, giving us an inside look into this case.
Plus, he'll finally reveal what made him resign from R. Kelly's team.
Take a look.
Throughout his multi-decade career, there have been no shortage of shocking accusations and claims of misconduct against R&B superstar R. Kelly.
In February 2002, a reporter for the Chicago Sun-Times anonymously received a 26-minute video allegedly showing Kelly engaged in sexual conduct with an underage girl.
That video was sent to police.
Kelly was indicted four months later on multiple child pornography charges and faced up to 15 years in prison.
After finally going to trial in 2008, Kelly was found not guilty on all 14 counts.
But in the past ten years, as he continued to make chart-topping albums, allegations continued to surface that Kelly had sex with underage girls, as well as had abusive relationships with dozens of women, some believed to be kept by Kelly against their will.
This year, two of these women, whose parents claim they are being held hostage, Jocelyn Savage and Azrael Clary, came forward and gave an interview denying their parents' allegations.
And stating that they are in a happy, loving relationship with R. Kelly.
Throughout this past spring and summer, a multitude of charges against Kelly mounted in several states.
In July, he was arrested on new federal charges and held without bond.
In the middle of this legal battle, his crisis manager, Daryl Johnson, quit, causing quite a stir online and in the media, leading many to wonder what possibly caused his abrupt departure.
Joining me now is R. Kelly's former crisis manager, Darrell Johnson.
Good to be here.
I know you've been under the spotlight a bit recently.
So you worked for eight months with R. Kelly and his team managing crises.
What kinds of problems did you manage for R. Kelly?
Well, as a crisis manager, my job is to help the client navigate from A to Z so that he understands what's coming, what's happening, and to prepare for trial.
So a crisis manager, they have to know everything that's going on.
They didn't know the truth to do their jobs well.
Absolutely.
Do you believe you knew the truth about what was going on in R. Kelly's life?
I do.
So you have to go back to 1991. Tiffany Hawkins, who signed the NDA with Mr. Kelly, and trial took place in 1996 and 2008. He was acquitted of both of those charges.
Now, if you look at what's happening, out of 56 women, probably only four can take the stand.
All those women have nondisclosures and NDAs with Mr. Kelly.
You know, Survivor North Kelly came out a year ago.
And when it came out, then it escalated into, we gotta lock up Mr. Kelly.
Endless or guilty, if a person is acquitted of a case, Twice.
He didn't beat the case.
He was acquitted by a jury.
My questions aren't about the legal issues.
I'm up to date on those.
Right.
It's whether you on the inside understood what was happening with Mike Kelly.
I did.
Absolutely.
And so, if there are dozens of non-disclosures That doesn't mean he's not guilty of doing things that he shouldn't have done.
It just means that they can't talk about it.
So you gave him advice all along, right?
I did.
So this is part of that.
Do you believe you know what happened to the dozens of women who have nondisclosures on this case?
I believe I know what I know.
What were presented, the facts, everything he ever told me was consistent.
And did you give him advice that he took or did not take?
He took advice.
Ms. Kelly listened very well to a lot of things I said, because he's his own man.
He's very smart.
He can't read and write, but not being able to read and write doesn't change the fact that he's intelligent.
It may sound kind of crazy.
He has a good understanding of what's going on around him.
So when you told him that you're going to be going to court and you're going to be accused in different states, how did he react to that?
Mr. Kelly was very nervous.
He's very scared, as anybody would be, facing 175 years in the state of the federal penitentiary.
You won't live that long anyway.
All right, so I have a little clip I'm going to play for everybody.
This is a press conference in Atlanta.
Rodero was interrupted by Jocelyn Savage's family.
And from all we know, Jocelyn is still with R. Kelly.
Absolutely.
In this clip, her family is enraged.
Take a look.
He's probably going to have his born hearing sometime next week.
Any questions?
I got a question.
Where's my daughter at?
Where's Jocelyn Sam?
You don't want to come to hear your lies.
You a part of his camp, right?
I'm not a part of his camp.
Are you speaking for him right now?
Hold on a second.
Let me explain something to you right quick.
Let me explain something to you right quick because I'm not going to allow you to come in from my press conference.
No, no, no, no, no, no.
What do you mean?
Let's be intelligent.
Listen to me.
I have a 21-year-old.
I would drive that truck in that hotel if my daughter's in there.
That's what I would do.
I would drive that truck and I'd get her.
So you say you drive a truck into the hotel at the risk of your daughter.
You're a father of a young woman.
Did you empathize with what those parents were angry about?
Well, I empathize with anybody that has those kind of feelings.
The problem I had was Mr. Kelly was picked up walking his dog in Chicago.
The savages were in Chicago when he got arrested.
Why jump on a plane and fly to Atlanta when your daughter is there and Mr. Kelly is locked up?
If he's in jail, why are you talking to me?
Go get your daughter.
That makes no sense.
What am I going to do with your daughter?
I'm a crisis manager.
I'm not a babysitter.
Can we move to the Gayle King interview?
Sure.
It's a controversial moment.
So Daryl was interviewed by CBS's Gayle King about the R. Kelly trials, and he made another reference about being a protective father.
I'm gonna try to quote you here.
You said you would never leave your daughter around anyone who was accused of pedophilia.
Well, let me say this to you.
My daughter was not a subject.
I was in daddy mode.
That's where I was.
I wasn't a crisis manager.
If I had to redo the interview, I would have said something different.
My daughter's not a factor.
And I think that was blown way out of proportion because it had nothing to do with my daughter.
Would you or did you allow your daughter to be near R. Kelly?
Again, I'm going to say this to you.
I believe Mr. Kelly is innocent.
I have no problem with Mr. Kelly.
I spent eight months with him.
He had a normal life.
He had two women that lived with him.
I couldn't do that, but he did it.
Hugh Hefner had six live with him, and he was celebrating Hollywood.
Once a year, everybody go up and celebrate him and put it on national TV. He had two girlfriends, and they all agreed to it.
I mean, like, that's his thing.
I don't know, why does everybody get all the norms in it?
What's the problem?
He had two girlfriends, Nazarelle and Jocelyn.
And they were all in love.
They loved each other.
They went to the movies, shopped together.
And these young ladies, these are not girls.
These are grown women.
We've got to clear it up.
These are not girls.
These are grown women who can make their own choice.
Ms. Kelly's locked up.
Again, he's locked up.
Who's holding these young ladies hostage now?
Do you believe R. Kelly is a pedophile?
Absolutely not.
Positive.
Absolutely not.
Do you believe R. Kelly is innocent?
I do.
Of all the charges?
Absolutely.
So, what is giving rise to dozens of young women, many of them claiming they were under the age of 18, saying that they were abused by R. Kelly?
When the media gets hold to it and it inflames People run from situations.
All these stars now that's backing off R. Kelly, these are the same people that was performing R. Kelly.
When they could make money off R. Kelly, it was good.
Now, oh, well, I gotta take my hands off R. Kelly.
He's this, he's that, and all that stuff.
If he's acquitted, do these celebrities come back and work with him again?
Well, if it was me, I wouldn't want to work with him.
You don't kick a dog down when he's down.
So if Mr. Kelly is found innocent, I think whatever he does from here on out, as successful as an R&B artist or whatever, he'll have a future.
So in July, you resigned from R. Kelly's team citing personal reasons.
Right.
We never really heard what happened.
Did R. Kelly fire you?
Okay, so let me tell you what happened.
My mother had a massive stroke.
I'm sorry.
Okay?
When I found that out, I immediately moved to dismiss myself or remove myself from Mr. Kelly's team.
That's what people didn't know.
I never used that as an excuse.
Two days ago, she died.
So that's where we are.
So no one fired me.
I resigned.
That's why I resigned, my mom.
Do you intend to go back and work with R. Kelly in crisis management again?
If Mr. Greenberg needs me, they welcome me back.
Again, I 1000% believe in Mr. Kelly.
I believe in his innocence.
It's really bad now that he's been treated like he's already been found guilty.
What are your worries about the trials?
I have no worries.
As I said, R. Kelly is an example.
That's what he is.
This case, it will not stick.
One last question, but it's an important one.
When you talk to your daughter about R. Kelly, what does she say to you?
I don't talk to my daughter about R. Kelly.
My job is to come in, look at the client, say, hey, here's what you're up against.
Here's what's taking place.
Here's how we navigate from A to Z. If the client listens, the client will be okay.
If the client doesn't, then he won't be.
My job is to help him understand it.
All right.
Through his lawyers, R. Kelly has denied all allegations of abuse, sexual exploitation, and any involvement with underage girls.
Up next, R. Kelly is being arraigned today on prostitution charges in Minnesota.
The accuser's lawyer is here speaking out.
Don't go away.
He's in a world of trouble.
That is going to send him to prison for the rest of his life if these facts are proven.
I don't care what that crisis manager just told you.
If one is telling the truth, he's going down.
We are back discussing the ongoing criminal charges against R&B singer and songwriter R. Kelly.
The superstar is facing an array of charges right now in different states and is currently being held in a Chicago jail without bond.
Joining me now to discuss this case is Gloria Allred.
She represents several of R. Kelly's accusers in New York and Minnesota in these criminal cases.
You've had a front row seat to all of this.
I'm just curious about your thoughts.
Have you ever, in all your experience, you're probably the most experienced lawyer of this nature in the country, have you ever seen anything like this?
No, Dr. Oz.
In fact, I have been practicing for 43 years with a leading women's rights, victim's rights law firm in the nation.
I've never seen so many charges in so many different jurisdictions against one person.
How do you prepare your clients for the grueling nature of these trials, for the public scrutiny?
Well, it's really difficult on so many levels.
Emotionally, of course, they have to recall what happened.
But they've been very, very courageous.
They have all testified either before the grand jury or they've spoken to law enforcement.
And they're willing to do it.
They're willing to do it because it's in the interest of justice for them to do it.
This is very, very serious.
When you use the power of a criminal enterprise To exploit and to hurt vulnerable children, underage minors, that is extremely serious and he's in a world of trouble.
What is your hope in the Minnesota arraignment?
In the Minnesota arraignment, he is being arraigned, being given notice that he is charged with two felonies.
One is trying to get her to agree to an act of prostitution when she was underage, less than 18, more than 16, which is a felony in Minnesota.
Also, he is charged with the felony of actually engaging in an act they called prostitution with this underage girl.
First of all, I think that these should not even be the name charges.
They should have a charge in Minnesota, which apparently they don't have, with sexually abusing a child.
Because this is really not an act of prostitution on her part.
She is being taken advantage of, at least according to the allegations, and she is underage.
She went to get an autograph, is what is alleged by the police officer, that his phone number was written along with the autograph.
That she was, after she called it, directed to go to a hotel room and then allegedly met Mr. Kelly who asked her to dance and would pay her $200 to dance but then had her dance naked, taking off her clothes is the allegation, taking off his clothes and then allegedly groping her breasts and groping her vagina.
This is a pattern that is alleged in other charges by other jurisdictions of actually recruiting girls out of maybe in some places malls, in some places just in the street.
And then of course the power of celebrity.
A celebrity wants He wants you to call him or wants your phone number and wants to talk to you.
Of course, fans, underage girls, are going to want to talk to the celebrity, but then moving them to a different level to exploit them sexually as children.
That is wrong.
That is criminal if proven, and that is going to send him to prison for the rest of his life if these facts are proven.
In addition to The underage girls, now adults, who may testify.
In addition, there may be others who worked with him, Dr. Oz, who are flipping, who are not going to want to go to prison themselves, but who are willing to take the stand, and they will need to tell the truth.
When they're under oath, they'll need to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help them God.
Lori, thank you very much.
Thank you.
It's important to remember here that these are still allegations.
R. Kelly is not being convicted of any crime and denies all of the allegations.
Up next, R. Kelly will plead not guilty or guilty today in Minnesota.
We're going to find out.
We're discussing what's next for the disgraced R&B legend and is there enough evidence for a conviction?
Stay with us.
We're back with our panel discussing what's next for R&B singer R. Kelly Jones.
Joining me now is Nancy Grace, former prosecutor and host of Oxygen's Injustice with Nancy Grace, and our own legal analyst for the Dr. Ra show, Denise Boudouin.
Today R. Kelly will be arraigned on charges that stem from a Minnesota prostitution case.
Have you ever seen a case of this magnitude end in an acquittal, Nancy?
Absolutely.
Do I even have to say O.J. Simpson, Robert Blake?
The list goes on and on and on of famous and infamous cases.
Yes.
Everybody thinks this case is airtight.
That is never true.
I mean, come on.
Oz, way back, Cook County, Chicago, they had him on video with a 14-year-old girl having sex.
That's called statutory rape.
And he walked.
He was acquitted.
That girl is now cooperating with the authorities.
So what would worry you as a prosecutor?
You're sitting there looking at this whole case now.
You've got dozens of people theoretically could speak, but you can only pick the ones that make the most difference to your case.
What worries you?
What worries me, as in every case I have ever tried, is the jury.
You get one person on that jury that's all, I believe I can fly, it's over.
Over.
Look, I mean it.
One person can tank, can poison that jury, and it's all over.
That would be my concern.
You get the right jury, you will get a conviction.
I don't care what that crisis manager said, all right?
Don't care.
Alright, the allegations against R. Kelly get more complex.
Come on back, Denise.
I'm gonna ask Denise to walk us through some of the lawsuits so you all understand where we are.
Let's go through R. Kelly's cases one by one, break them down.
2008, he's acquitted of 14 counts of child pornography, as Nancy pointed out.
What happened?
So this is the trial that started it all.
This is with the alleged victim that was supposed to be 14 years old.
The problem is she didn't testify at trial.
So the jury was unable to find him guilty by a preponderance of the evidence, and her family said that it wasn't her.
So although there were other witnesses who, from her coach to friends to one family member who said it was her, because she didn't take the stand, the jury was unable to find him guilty.
So it's not as far-fetched as it sounds that he was acquitted.
Okay, February 2019, 10 counts of aggravated criminal sexual abuse in connection with minors.
Right.
So this is the first of what they call the Chicago cases, the first trial.
There are four victims, three of whom are underage, and he turned himself in and his bond was set at a million dollars.
And three days after he turned himself in, a female fan posted his bail, which is $100,000 plus collateral, and he was let out.
A female fan.
A female fan.
She wasn't a young woman, though, but it was a female fan.
May 2019, 11 new sex-related counts.
Correct.
So these are additional counts out of Chicago.
And one of the women has the same initials as someone who took part in the Lifetime special on R. Kelly.
July 2019, 18 federal counts in two separate jurisdictions, New York and Chicago.
They include racketeering involving minors.
So these are the federal charges.
And this is what everyone, I think, knew was coming.
The federal courts have, what, a 90% conviction rate, federal prosecutors do.
So you have the power of the U.S. government coming after him.
He's got charges in Chicago.
He's got four more here in New York.
And like you said, it's racketeering.
It's a concerted effort on R. Kelly's part and people that are part of his entourage dealing with young girls.
And finally, August 2019, two counts of prostitution involving a 17-year-old in Minnesota.
This is what Gloria Aldred was discussing.
This was from 2001. The allegation is that he paid a young girl who was 17 $200 to dance for him and he touched her inappropriately.
But, you know, there's some controversy with this one in particular because it was such an old case.
But the Minnesota courts have brought, you know, the Minnesota prosecutors have brought charges against him.
Let me take this back to Nancy.
It's a lot to take in.
You know what's a lot for me to take in?
A woman that doesn't even know R. Kelly costs up $100,000 so he can get out.
And that's why I'm worried about jury selection.
How do you get tried in three different states at the same time?
Nobody's getting tried at the same time.
There are multiple indictments pending.
He'll take the first case and the next case and the next case.
And this is how I think it's going to work.
Number one, under the Supremacy Clause in our Constitution, A federal case will most likely go first.
But the strongest case will go first.
Because once they win a case, they can plead out the other ones for concurrent or consecutive time.
That's how this is going to go down.
I don't care what that crisis manager just told you.
He is getting convicted.
Because here's your choices, Oz.
Either he's telling the truth and all these women are lying.
Or they are telling the truth.
At least one of them, if one is telling the truth, he's going down.
So what's R. Kelly's experience in jail right now?
Oh, please.
He just said he was having cruel and unusual punishment because he was in solitary.
He was taped on the phone, Oz.
He claimed he had no contact with other people.
He couldn't watch TV. He couldn't read his fan mail.
That's what he thinks is cruel and unusual.
Well, he's in general population, and now he has interaction.
And he can visit his girlfriends as well behind bars.
He can visit his girlfriends?
Yeah, they can have visits.
It's not conjugal, but he can have visits.
He can meet with his lawyers.
He has a basketball court.
He has three hots and a cot.
He's fine.
Three hots and a cot?
Three hot meals and a cot.
Oh, okay, gotcha.
Oz, get your jail lingo down.
Let me just go back to one issue here.
Just from what you know, Having spoken to people, as you always do, about what's really going down, you think there's enough evidence that he should be convicted?
Dr. Oz.
I've tried cases with no DNA. Yes, they can get a conviction, especially if they bring in similar transactions.
I mean, how can they turn away from the truth?
We're gonna find out.
Yeah.
We reached out to R. Kelly's legal team asking them about these charges and allegations.
We did not get a response in time for this taping.
Women have come forward one by one, and that takes bravery to speak out.
One voice at a time can create great change, and that's what we mean by the power of one, everybody.
So we're staying on top of the story as new developments unfold.
We will update you.
Our viewers, listen, everyone out there, if we hear anything from R. Kelly's team, we'll let you know as well.
We'll be right back.
On the next True Crime, we're talking about one of the most sadistic scandals in modern history.
What's been described as a sex cult run by NXIVM founder Keith Raniere.
A secret sisterhood where women were enslaved, forced to maintain near starvation diets, and permanently branded.
Take a look.
The claims made headlines across the country.
Shocking allegations about NXIVM. NXIVM calls itself a self-help organization, but some women are now coming forward.
Revealing that they were branded with the initials of the leader, Keith Raniere.
Sarah Edmondson was involved with the organization since 2005 and was a member of DAS, its alleged secretive sex cult, that branded women.
Her sensational interview with the New York Times thrust a secretive and litigious organization into the spotlight, furthering claims of mental, sexual, and physical abuse.
On the next True Crime, we're going to talk to one of NXIVM's top recruiters, Sarah Edmondson, who escaped only after being branded for life.
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