Owen Shroyer and David Khait clash over U.S.-Israel policy, with Khait defending "America first" pragmatism—30,000 TPUSA attendees split on Israel’s ally status—and exposing $5T wasted aid as a "money laundering operation" for defense contractors like Raytheon. Shroyer pushes defunding Israel, accusing it of false-flag attacks (e.g., Bondi shooting) and claiming Jewish elites control media, AI, and Congress while excluding white Americans. Khait counters by linking liberal policies to rising anti-Semitism and urging Republicans to focus on domestic issues like housing and healthcare instead. Their debate reveals generational tensions: Shroyer hopes younger voters will end conflicts, while Khait warns Israel’s divisive role risks fracturing the right—though AIPAC’s bipartisan grip remains a hurdle. [Automatically generated summary]
You got a bingo card for quote unquote Israeli influencers.
That's what they turned me this weekend at Amfest.
Then go ahead and whip it out because I'm sure you'll get bingo pretty quick.
But regardless of all of that, yeah, I mean, Jews have to do something on Christmas.
So what's better than to debate this?
But I'm a political commentator because I, you know, commentate on everything that happens on a daily basis.
I don't do really long form stuff.
I just put the stuff on my shorts and whatnot.
But then I do real life content.
And what I mean by that is men on the street interviews.
I go to college campuses.
I engage with college students way before Charlie Kerr got assassinated a couple months before the last presidential election is when I thought I want to really go change people's minds, kind of debunk narratives that a lot of these sheep believe in.
So I started to go out into the public and engage with people and film my content like that.
Started to go to protests.
I ended up having to go undercover a lot because now they know exactly who I am in Atlanta.
The leftists are crazy there.
We're not that much on the map, but once you experience it, it's wild.
So I do everything.
So that's why I call it content creation and commentary.
And, you know, maybe this is a good place to start.
We can talk about Amfest.
Got a lot of publicity.
You could say it was controversial, perhaps, maybe the most controversial Amfest.
I don't remember such controversy surrounding an Amfest.
You were there, though.
What was the experience like for you?
And we'll kind of go from there and maybe talk about what the future of the right is, because it does appear that TPUSA understands the incoming debate, the incoming split that I think is about to happen if it hasn't already.
Yeah, unfortunately, I can't really compare it to anything because this was my first Amfest.
It was my second turning point event.
I went to one earlier this summer.
And I'm kind of new to the political scene, if you'd say so.
But one thing that I think you nailed right away is that Turning Point is open to the criticism, or maybe a better word is to the reality of what's happening on the conservative right is that there's a split over a specific topic or better yet, not so much a topic, but yet a foreign policy on a position on foreign policy.
And if Turning Point is going to be the leader of the conservative movement and kind of building this grassroots idea of what is the perfect conservative candidate, then they should be open to hearing all the criticism there is.
So that's why I'm thankful that we have Turning Point actually allowing debates to happen.
That's what I saw during the summer when there was Dave Smith versus, I can't remember who was the pro-Israel guy.
They didn't cancel somebody just because they have controversial views or opposing views.
They may have not invited somebody like, let's say, Candace Owens, because they completely don't want to, let's say, platform those ideas, but they're not going to shy away from platforming somebody like Ben Shapiro or on the other side like Tucker Carlson simply because either one of those ideas are unpopular, let's say with the donors or with what's going on in the conservative base right now.
So that's for sure really good to see.
I was kind of surprised with the straw poll and you can't really judge too much based on a straw poll, but there was a question that they asked, what are the views on Israel?
And they broke it down to three interesting categories.
They had me really think a little bit more about, in general, how we frame the discussion about Israel.
But it was a question about how do you view Israel, whether it's a top ally, one of many allies, which is an interesting option to give people, or not an ally at all.
And attendees, over 30,000 voted on this straw poll, said that it was about 13% of them said that, no, it's not an ally at all.
A third of them said that it's a top ally, like one of the top allies that we have.
And about 53% said that it's one of many allies.
So I don't know if necessarily what we see on Twitter and the popular thoughts and conversations and narratives that we see trending on Twitter constantly is reflective of what we see in reality.
Again, this is just a straw poll of attendees.
Not too sure, right?
Because if we look at other polls, there's obviously major sentiment when it comes down to Israel.
So I'm not blind to that.
And the one thing I want to kind of get across to everybody, I know I've been rambling for a little bit here, is that I was born in Jerusalem, Israel.
I migrated to the United States legally, which makes me completely hate illegal immigrants and anything to do with illegal immigration.
When I was eight years old, eight years old, I fully assimilated into the United States.
I'm proudly American first.
And just because I see Israel as an ally, as a good partnership for the United States, doesn't mean that I'm Israel first or anything like that.
I believe that America first, which we need to define before we start any conversation here, is what is actually in the interest of Americans.
Whatever policy that we come forward with, whether it's domestic or international, which I think the United States has to have a strong foreign policy, otherwise we become weak like the Bush administration or Obama's administrations or Biden's administration.
If we don't have strong foreign policy, we become weak like them.
Obama took an approach that if we can appease the Iranians, the Mullahs, then we can perhaps create a peaceful time in the Middle East.
The Bush administration took the neocon approach of this.
And Obama, while trying to appease the Iranians, simultaneously was bombing other predominantly Muslim countries in the Middle East and destabilizing it.
So there was not the right approach.
Oh, and I've always said this, that regardless of what the human is, what religion they believe in, where they're located in the world, they all want prosperity, especially economic prosperity.
And the elites of those countries just want a lot of money.
We can always achieve peace in whatever region of the world through economic trade.
And that is why I think that President Trump actually takes a really interesting approach.
I don't think that you can call President Trump an isolationist, a Tucker-style isolationist is a good term to put on this, nor can you really call him a neocon, neolib, like the Cheneys or the Bushes or the Obamas with that failure foreign policy position.
Sorry, foreign policy position.
So it's a hybrid position of both because he understands that if we completely isolate ourselves from the world, if we pull out of the Middle East completely, somebody else, like a foreign adversary like China, can swarm in and completely point out.
We've been hearing that since 2001 when Mark Levin, isolationist.
If you go back and you look at when Mark Levin and others in the media were pushing the Bush administration into war in the Middle East, that was the term that they used.
It's all over the press.
Just go look, isolationist, isolationist, isolationist.
So really, it sounds like it's the same propaganda that they're using now.
I look at it like this.
There has never been a successful strategy in the Middle East.
The United States has poured blood and treasure into the Middle East.
The numbers are up for debate, but it seems like everybody's willing to admit that it's at least $5 trillion.
Thousands of Americans' lives have been lost.
I think the whole thing is a disaster.
I don't think there's anything we can point to as a success story in the Middle East.
I think that many Americans are looking at Benjamin Netanyahu specifically, or maybe the Israeli lobby, and they're saying, this is your fault.
You guys are the ones that got us into the Middle East.
You guys are the ones that lied to us about weapons of mass destruction.
Just in the last week, Israel has blamed Iran for the Brown shooting.
False.
Israel blamed Iran for the drones off of the East Coast.
False.
Israel blamed Iran for the Bondi shooting?
False.
And so it seems like we keep getting lies from our greatest ally that continue these wars in the Middle East, which if you look at what's going on right now, the only benefactor is Israel.
And as we're talking right now, they are currently in the process of bombing seven different countries.
They're taking land to the north, the south, the east, the west.
I don't want anything to do with it.
I don't want my tax dollars to have anything to do with it.
If Israel wants to do that and deal with its neighbors, then fine.
They can deal with that.
But from me, an America first perspective is I'm done.
I'm out.
Defund, decouple.
And I think that most Americans agree with me now.
And I know that we can talk about the poll from Turning Point USA.
I'm not sure how much I buy into it, especially if it was on a beeper.
People might have been a little intimidated to give their truthful answer.
So, first of all, Owen, I agree with you because everything regarding the past, all the foreign policy approaches that we've taken, whether it's Republican administrations or Democratic administrations, are complete failures, especially when it comes down to the Middle East.
But it's not necessarily exclusive to the Middle East.
You can look at Africa, how much money we poured into Africa, and we didn't build any infrastructure for them to actually have an economic trade with us.
Rather, China is doing exactly that now and is succeeding to gain influence over that region.
Same with Latin America and South America, which is why I actually strongly support President Trump's.
I wouldn't have supported it without this, but it kind of unleashing the Monroe Doctrine, the Trump Row Doctrine, I'll call it, on our side of the hemisphere.
But anyways, to get back to the Middle East, I completely agree with you, but that doesn't mean that we need to suddenly become quote unquote isolationist.
I hate to constantly use that term, but to completely abandon the Middle East and any interest that we have in the Middle East.
Surprise, surprisingly to you, probably, because I completely agree with you on another point is that we need to cut all foreign aid to Israel.
There's no reason why we need to give any aid to Israel when it comes down to giving them any actual monetary money.
Do I think that, well, let me ask you this.
Do you think, though, that in a relationship with Israel, we don't give them any money, can we still allow them to buy defense from the United States in order to protect themselves in the cases when Islamic jihad, like the Palestinian Islamic Jihad or Hamas, launches rockets from, I live in Atlanta.
We have a city called Buckhead.
It's the same thing as if Buckhead was shooting missiles at Atlanta.
So there needs to be some kind of protection.
Do you believe that the United States in that case can still supply Israel with defense, military defense, so they can protect themselves?
When you're talking about arms sales, that's a little different.
You're getting into you're weighing, I think you're weighing your morals versus your commitment to capitalism.
I don't know.
I don't know about that one.
I would say as a capitalist, we should let our American companies sell weapons to whoever they want.
Or maybe the better answer would be the U.S. government has no involvement.
And so if our weapons manufacturers and contractors want to sell defense weapons to Israel or Qatar or Saudi Arabia, I would say the U.S. government should have nothing to do with it.
Now, if one of those companies decides they want to make a political statement and they say, okay, I'm not going to sell to Israel.
I don't like what they're doing in Palestine, or I'm not going to sell to Qatar for this reason or Saudi Arabia for that reason.
You know, that's how I think a healthy free market would work.
Now, my guess is that the defense contractors and the weapons manufacturers probably aren't going to decide to take any moral stands.
That doesn't really seem like the business.
Yeah.
So I don't really think that that would be a problem.
And I think really the general stance for me, America First is cutting all foreign aid and getting out of all foreign entanglements.
And I think that the problem that we're having right now, and when I talk to my other Jewish friends about this, I try to emphasize this point, but I would ask you the question.
Do you think that because you were born in Israel and you do have ties to the land and the people there, more so than I do, obviously, or most Americans, do you think that you have a bias on the situation?
And that's why when I go to college campuses and I do the debates, I kind of tend away to stay away from debating Israel for the fact that I openly say is that I probably have a bias that blinds me from accepting certain objective facts, which is really hard for me to say as somebody that denies all the conspiracies that people like to spin or build their conjecture off of, because I do rely a lot on objective facts.
So obviously, if I come from that country, I was born there.
October 7th is something that impacts me more than it does just like objectively, right?
It impacts me emotionally.
So of course, when I have conversations about this topic, I'm not blind to the fact that I may have a personal bias that is tied directly to the country that I was born in.
But to go back to the original statement that I had earlier is that when I say that I support a certain country, I don't base that off my personal feelings and emotions.
I can make the case to why in the position of America first, it does include a foreign policy that is consistent with having relationships with certain foreign countries that is in the benefit of American citizens.
If I was born in Afghanistan, let's say, and there would be no way that would be making the case for you why the United States needs to have some sort of ally relationship with Afghanistan because I don't believe that one, their culture, traditions are compatible with the West, nonetheless, the United States, but there's no actual economic benefit from Afghanistan unless you want to flood the markets with opiates here in America.
And listen, when I talk to a lot of my friends, I completely understand that position and the point that you make.
Don't get me wrong.
When a little kid has his family blown up, regardless of whether he understands that those parents could be, I'm not saying that they all are, but could be Hamas militants, they will grow up probably radical and wanting to kill whoever it is that is responsible for that.
I also understand that because of a lot of failed foreign policy in the previous administrations, again, regardless, Republican or Democrat, we've had this refugee crisis where we've seen the downfall of Europe, for example.
I'll cover that a lot, where there's on a daily basis, cases tied to how refugees coming from either the Middle East, it can be Pakistan, it can be Afghanistan, completely destroying what it truly means, the national true meaning behind a European or European country, whether you're in France, Germany, whatever the case is.
And we're not too far behind that in the United States.
But the case that I want to make is that it seems like the target, targeting Western values and not so much just modern Western values, but whether that is Protestant or traditional Christianity started way before even the concept of Zionism.
So nonetheless, the state of Israel was even part of anything in the Middle East, before even the United States has any entanglements overseas, even nonetheless in the Middle East.
Of course, I'm talking about the Barbary Wars, where Islamists would capture the United States ship.
But the argument that I'd like to make is that it doesn't make sense to make the statement that suddenly we're seeing the rise of radical Islam directly tied to the state of Israel or even the concept of Zionism.
I'm affording you even to talk about times, but regardless if the state of Israel was there, regardless if we had any relationship with Israel, regardless if we cut all foreign aid to anything like that, I'm under the belief.
I don't want to test it out, but I'm under the belief that Islamic jihad will still continue in the West and will still be targets of Islam, regardless if the state of Israel is actually exists or not.
Even if we have a relationship with the people that I would have to disagree with the premise, but it's all hypothetical.
I would put it to you like this.
I think that there's the two factors, the one I just mentioned, and then it's our bad foreign policy that has destabilized the Middle East, has destabilized North Africa that's causing all of these refugees to go into Europe and come into the United States of America.
But again, I don't look at it.
We did not have a radical Islamic problem.
We did not have a radical Islamic terror problem in the United States until we got in bed with Israel with foreign policy.
And until more specifically, again, you're talking about essentially ancient history at this point.
Owen, people like to make the argument that this was just targeting economic trade.
I understand that position.
But if you actually look at the scriptures that the quote-unquote Islamic pirates were writing at the time, they were saying that we are targeting these individuals on the behalf of Allah.
You said you looked at chapter 33, verse 1 of the Quran.
It is the core tenet of Islam.
What it believes is that no Muslim, a true Muslim, does not follow man-made laws.
It will only follow the law of Allah.
So why do they all want to establish Sharia law?
Why do they want to establish a caliphate where Sharia is the law of the land?
They will do everything that they can, including lie to you, which is called Takiyah, in order to convince you, Christians, especially, that your true enemy is the state of Israel.
And if we just remove the state of Israel, everything's going to be fine.
If we cut off everything with Israel, it's going to be fine.
But the reality of it, and you know that because I just pointed to France is a great example of that.
It's one of the most shocking examples, in my opinion, because I thought terror would stop in France after they took such harsh approach on Israel, but they don't care.
Seriously, they don't care.
Why do Pakistanis, for example, why do Pakistanis on Christmas gatherings go and bomb churches?
What do Pakistanis have to do to kill a minority religion in Pakistan?
This isn't like, you know, refugees who are suddenly Christians in Pakistan.
Pakistan is a predominantly Muslim country.
And there are Christians that, of course, live there.
They're very much so suppressed.
They have almost no way to celebrate Christmas.
But the few times that they actually are permitted by the government to get a permit to celebrate Christmas, hooray, thank you, the government, for giving me the right to practice Christianity.
I think, and this is what I'm saying is that I don't know, right?
You'd have to do an analysis, which actually would be an interesting analysis to do.
But I wonder is how many people she would bring in in terms of like disenfranchised, you know, black people who have been on Democratic plantations for a while into the party.
What I'm saying is that I believe that, and you saw that right now under immense pressure to cancel people like Tucker Carlson.
I'm glad that I disagree with Tucker Carlson on his position of Israel in general foreign policy, but that doesn't mean that I want him canceled and not to show up at turning point events.
And I'm proud to say that turning point doesn't bow down.
The reality of it is that you still have a large portion of Republicans, if you ever leave X and you see it, that don't necessarily hold a position of anti-Israel.
So when you put the James Fishback, it's a great example of this, right?
I thought, man, he might pull a good amount of Floridians because he's kind of have this like, you know, this, you know, Nick Fuentes approach to foreign policy, which is stupid for a governor race, but whatever.
I thought maybe, you know, it looks so popular on X, but then when we pull him, he gets 1% with Republican voters.
Not all voters, we're the Republican voters.
It's not because we're gatekeeping or anything like that.
It's just that the reality of it is that what you see on X is probably not so much the reality when we see in a voter, right?
I'm saying that the reason it's so stupid to say, and I mean this in the most respectful way possible, that to say the reason why the bill that was just introduced to give the money to the Americans when it comes down to healthcare, not to the insurance companies, didn't pass in the Senate and didn't get the votes enough to pass in the Senate is because Republicans only give things to Israel or only focus on Israel.
It's because eight Democrats didn't join Republicans in passing a piece of legislation that would have helped Americans and is in high demand from Americans when we asked them, what would you want to see as affordable health care?
Certain subsidies, more affordable care upsides, or would you rather have the money as yourself and you decide what to do?
They're saying, give us the money, and eight Democrats aren't voting for them.
It's not because Republicans are too focused on Israel and giving it's the reality of the political arena.
I agree with you that non-stop, they can get together and pass legislation, whether it's a couple billion there or a military aid there and stuff like that for Ukraine, Israel.
I get that.
That is the problem with the establishment class.
But the reality of it is that that doesn't hinder the individual's ability to pass legislation that helps us as Americans.
You have to cover it objectively like that, Owen, because that's the reality of it.
APAC isn't buying some Democrats saying and saying, oh, don't pass that piece of legislation.
It's going to help Americans get affordable health care.
I watched Bill Maher consistently for years, not years, but like for two years every Friday night, because realistically, the only, I don't want to be trapped in an echo chamber.
I want to see what quote-unquote classic disenfranchised Democrats have to say.
You can't really listen to propaganda from the left.
It's really tough to do.
So I kind of listen to a show.
It's kind of funny sometimes.
Whatever.
It's not why he supports Trump.
If you actually listen to it, there's many reasons.
For example, he takes a harsh stance against all the cultural left BS that they keep trying to push on us, whether it be trans stuff or every white person is racist and all this stuff.
If I have 24 hours in a day, okay, I can't add hours to the day.
I get 24 hours in the day, and I spend 23 of those hours prioritizing something else, and I have one hour left to prioritizing the other thing.
What do you think is, what do you think is going to get the results?
Obviously, the thing I prioritize 23 hours a day, that's where this administration is at with Israel.
We've had more strikes on Iran than we have had deep state arrests.
We've had more noticeable impact in a positive way for Israel than we have for tax cuts in our own country.
Okay, we Americans can't deal with this anymore.
They don't want to hear about Ukraine, Israel, Venezuela.
They can't even afford health care.
They can't even afford groceries.
And every time they turn on their TV, it's more money for Ukraine, more money for Israel.
Now we're going to war in Venezuela.
It's an utter catastrophe.
And when Republicans lose in the midterms, they're going to do everything but blame their own policies.
If you want to win the midterms, stop prioritizing foreign countries.
But it's very clear what's happened here.
Marion Adelson runs this White House.
Susie Wiles works for Netanyahu.
And I don't know why, but Netanyahu seems to drag Trump around by the ear and get whatever he wants.
Maybe it's something in the Epstein files, maybe it's something else.
I don't know.
But that's what everybody sees.
That's what everybody sees.
And now we've crossed a threshold where people look at Israel and what they're doing in the Gaza Strip and they say this is a diabolically evil regime under Netanyahu.
Even Netanyahu, the International Criminal Court, the Knesset, they all want Netanyahu on criminal charges.
The IDF soldiers are committing suicide and astronomical rates because they look at what they're doing in Palestine as evil.
And we're continuing to support that.
That's why Republicans are going to lose the midterms, not because of anything else.
They prioritized Israel.
And you can try to pretend like that's not the case, but it's all going to happen in the midterms.
And then the Democrats are going to run on the anti-Israel ticket and probably get a bigger turnout than they've ever had.
He said that this government or this administration, you know, it's like if you just prioritize something 23 hours of the day and then you only have an hour to do something else, it's obviously just going to be what you've prioritized for those 23 hours.
I'm sorry.
How many pieces of legislation have been introduced?
Better yet, how many executive orders have been issued by this administration?
And if you can, how many of those are in regards to Israel versus how many they are for domestic issues or just nothing to do with foreign stuff?
The government shutdown was because of Israel, right?
Congress couldn't legislate and we were all shit out of luck and there was impacts on actual average Americans because they couldn't decide Israel or is it because the Democrats didn't want to let go of subsidies for illegals when it came down to health care?
You mentioned two things that this administration has done that is directly tied to Israel.
I can name you a ton of different pieces of legislation that have turned into law or things that this administration has achieved that is in the benefit of American citizens that are completely domestic things, whether it is the tax cuts, whether it is no taxes on overtime, whether it's no taxes on the unemployment, non-unemployment, on the SSA checks that people get on that, no tax on tips.
you know, funding, funding ICE to unprecedented levels than we've ever seen before.
The reality of it is that this administration has prioritized the American individual as much as it can.
And all you are sitting here and caring about is Israel, because yes, guess what?
This administration believes that it's an effective foreign policy for them to occasionally support.
It's very, it's very disingenuous to sit here and say that this administration is Israel first and prioritizes Israel and doesn't do anything.
He slaps Bibi in the face every time that they try to push anything regarding we're going to annex Judea and Samaria.
He doesn't even really seen cuss before in my life, unless it's on excess Hollywood tape, come out and say, fuck you.
So it's the reality of it, if we're going to be saying that, you know, Israel is this pimp and Trump is just this simp of Israel, then you need to try and make the case for it a little bit better.
But again, okay, but again, the reality of it when it comes down to it is that just because somebody says I'm the best pro-Israel president that this country has ever seen, or me saying I am the most pro-Israeli conservative that there is, doesn't mean that I have unprecedented loyalty for it, or that I have just this non-stop, you know, we have to do everything in benefit of Israel, actually being Israel first.
It's just not true.
I just believe that the United States or within the position of America first, we need to have strong foreign policy, or we become either like the Obama administration or Biden administration, or we become disastrous like the Bushes and the Cheneys administration.
We need to have an effective policy when it comes down to foreign entanglements or foreign relationships.
And it doesn't mean that we need to just have billions of dollars flowing into countries just because we support them.
Everything needs to be evaluated on the interest of Americans.
Yeah, I fundamentally agree, but I just want to say that it's ridiculous to say that $3.6 billion a year out of an $800 billion defense budget out of a really out of what is it?
It's like one second.
One second, one second.
Out of a $3 trillion federal budget is the reason why Americans are living paycheck to paycheck.
It's so stupid to constantly blame Israel or us giving money to Israel.
It's because of garbage like that, of endless spending on incentives that prioritize bullshit liberal or sometimes neocon agendas.
That's it.
For you to sit here and say that that is the reason $3 billion a year going to Israel is the reason why Americans are living paycheck to paycheck or why mortgage rates are where they're at or why we are running out of affordable health care because of the stupid ACA is ridiculous, Owen.
What I said was you can't get away with that when Americans are living paycheck to paycheck.
They don't want to hear about it.
But here's the issue.
Americans pay about 30% in taxes.
30% in taxes.
That subsidizes the life for Israelis.
We subsidize their education, we subsidize their health care, and we subsidize their military.
And so you can talk about a percentage.
You can talk about a percentage.
We need a proof.
It's well documented.
You can talk about a percentage.
How do you think the city of Detroit?
How do you think the city of Atlanta?
How do you think the city of Chicago, St. Louis, how do you think any of these cities would feel if they got injected $3.6 billion into their metropolitan area to fix bridges?
I don't actually understand anything when it comes down to the type of foreign aid that we give Israel.
What form do we give aid to, in what form do we give aid to Israel?
90 plus percent of the foreign aid that we give in Israel comes in what kind of form if it's injected into Medicare and healthcare and education in Israel, you would have to have it in some sort of form that you can actually inject it in.
How does 90% of the aid that we give to Israel every year, in what form does it come to Israel?
Okay, so you don't actually understand how we give them money.
So, almost 90% of the foreign aid that we give to Israel, and I say this respectfully because a lot of people don't know it, is all through grants, right?
So, how does a grant work when we issue a grant in the United States to somebody?
How does that work?
When we issue to Harvard a grant specifically for them to research, you know, certain things, how does that work?
How much that is how the military industrial complex works?
And then I'll just say that the people that work at Raytheon, Lockheed, Martin don't necessarily care about politics like that.
They're average Americans.
So if you want to strip away jobs from average Americans because you disagree with certain foreign policy positions, then you go ahead and go to those manufacturers in the middle of nowhere in Georgia.
It's actually called Chumbly somewhere in Georgia.
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And you're more than welcome to tell them you're more than welcome.
Because there is kind of like that same overlap there.
But just to simplify down, what I believe woke is, because it applies regardless if you're right or left, it's anybody that forfeits on their objective facts in order to constantly push their narrative or agenda.
You see that with the left, when they do that with transgenderism, right?
You fully have to forfeit on all objective facts in order to say a biological man can be a woman.
So you can find examples on the right.
I'm sure we disagree on those examples of what people do in order to constantly push their narrative.
And they'll deny all the objective facts or forfeit on them in order to maintain that narrative and position.
That's why I say I think we think of who is on the woke right differently.
But I can't just say, sit here and be like, yeah, just because people calling each other anti-Semitic, I mean, people probably feel a little bit more emboldened that have always hated Jews to go and attack Jews.
And the reason why is because unless you understand Israeli politics, would you like to see a more liberal, I guess, or more progressive prime minister in Israel?
So the reality of it is that in the last five years, Israel had had six elections where the liberals got together with, they've never done this before, but they got together with some interesting characters.
They are very, very pro-Palestine in the movement, and they created a coalition to form the government.
Well, they are the ones who try to establish relationship with Gaza, permitting Gazans to come into Israel and work there.
That's what Gazans used in order to map out all the kibbutzes around the area so they knew exactly how to go through on October 7th.
So It's a shitty position because if you would kind of like mirror it to American politics, BB is like your failed Bush administration, and then you're everything all the left that offers in Israel is like the failed Obama administrations that kind of did nothing but try and appease kind of this appeasement of policy.
So I always say, like, if people are very disappointed with BB, Israelis are disappointed with BB.
There are things that I wish BB did different, of course, but I'm scared what comes after that because it's either a more far-right government.
I don't want that, or it's going to be these didiot leftists there, which is devastating for Israelis.
You know, I thought at one point, maybe Trump and his envoy had a chance to find a path to peace.
And I'm not as invested in the region.
I want out.
I don't want anything to do with the region.
You know, that's that's my hardcore stance.
Uh, maybe I'm considered an extremist on that or an isolationist.
I don't really care.
I want nothing to do with it.
Uh, these holy wars have been going on for long before you or I were ever on this planet.
Um, and I, and I anticipate they'll probably go on long after us as well.
And maybe this is why you decided to find peace and prosperity in the United States of America because you didn't want to deal with that the rest of your life.
And I don't blame you for that.
I'm just scared as an American that this is now coming to my country.
And now I see it in the streets.
I see, I see people waving an Israeli flag, people waving a Palestinian flag in the streets of New York, Chicago, Florida.
And I'm like, this is America.
What are we doing here?
If you're going to leave the Middle East, leave your hatred and leave your war with you.
Can I just before you ask that, I just want to say that do you not feel like Israelis assimilate much better into the United States than somebody coming from Afghanistan or Pakistan or Syria, right?
I think there's a fair, there's a fair, if you want to do like a rating system or a ranking system of who assimilates and who doesn't.
If you want to make that list, I would say probably American Jews have assimilated more from my experience.
Now, that might just be because I'm friends with more American Jews.
I grew up with more American Jews.
I don't really have too much experience with Muslims.
I've got a couple Muslim friends, but not too much experience there.
So I don't really know if I have much to offer as far as a pushback there.
Obviously, the Somalis is, you know, that's a totally different ballgame, or even the people that are coming in from Haiti, I don't think that they have assimilated at all.
So that is an issue.
That's a policy issue where we've been way too lenient on immigration and we've been way too lenient on refugees and asylum.
So I really don't have a pushback to offer on that.
But I will say this: you know, even though we have Muslims that come here and make Islamic communities and kind of take over at the local level, and we are seeing that, I don't think there's any denial that American Jews have come in here and they've basically taken over the whole country.
They run most of our media operations.
Now they run all the AI, all the data centers.
They own our politicians.
They own our Congress.
So, you know, you can talk about them assimilating, but when you talk about the power structure, you know, Israelis have moved in here and basically turned the United States of America and our Congress into one big giant slush fund for Israel.
Benjamin Netanyahu has been campaigning Congress for decades, telling us to go into the Middle East, talking about weapons of mass destruction, saying there'll be a terror attack here if we don't do it.
I have an interesting conspiracy there, but we didn't go into Afghanistan after 9-11 because Israel said, Hey, go into this in there, or we influence them.
We've been actually thinking about going in there for a bit, even before 9-11.
You can look at Clinton documents in the late 90s to show us that.
Before that, we didn't go into Kuwait because of Israel either.
I mean, that is actually pretty much pretty well recorded.
It's the reason why Israel stayed out of that war.
They were actually not in favor of anything to do over there.
So there's, and but I agree with you in Iraq that, yeah, you had that BB come and say that there's weapons of mass destructions in Iraq.
And I, again, I have a conspiracy about that as much as I don't really dive into conspiracies, but it's not so true.
But again, you said that American, Jews came from Israel and now they pretty much own America, or Jews live in America, and now they own America and stuff like that.
I do agree with you that it's a disproportionate amount of Jews in terms of their population to positions of power or like in media, for example, Hollywood, various institutions, big pharma and all that stuff.
But, you know, we have the same thing in prison when it comes down to black people.
13% of the population makes up 50% of the homicides.
They make more than 50% of the individuals that are incarcerated.
And you know what?
Critical race theorists like Kimberly Crenshaw write in her book to me when I read it in my liberal school.
They write, it's because of white institutions.
They blame white people as the reason why they're incarcerated, not because they are the ones that are committing these actions.
They won't take responsibility for that.
So why can't, and the conservative argument to that is exactly that: it's not some conspiracy against black people to lock them up.
It's because you commit the action.
It is you that do it.
And the reason why is because you grow up in a house most of the time, 70% of you guys, without a father.
And when you get like eight of your fathers coming in and out of the house all the time and you get raised by the street, you probably end up committing murders or some crimes.
Jews, along with Asians and Indians, and I'm trying to get my white Christians on board with this back to how it was before the civil rights era, prioritizing education and your family ends up being amazing for your future to the point of where you end up sometimes making good decisions and of course landing good careers and jobs and powerful positions.
I don't believe that there's some grand conspiracy by Jews to have possession of otherwise they didn't include me and I'm kind of pissed off if that's the case.
But I believe that the reason that is the case is not because there's a conspiracy, but it's because they prioritize education, they prioritize family, and they've successfully landed these positions in life, just like Asians.
It's the same thing.
We don't talk about Asian conspiracy in America.
Indians pretty much are starting to do the same thing.
But the two points of contention I would say is that the one thing I do think there might be a little conspiracy, maybe not as, I don't know, if there's a conspiracy, it's about they have a loyalty to Israel that white Americans don't have.
So that, so I do believe that if you look at Larry Ellison, that's kind of a good case in point and everything that's going on right now.
But I think what happens is if we're not looking at a conspiratorial angle as far as how do we end up here, I do think that when a Jewish American gets into a point of a position of power or CEO, they make sure that nobody else gets into that position that's not a Jew.
And so I do think they act a lot more tribally than white Americans do.
Now, as far as why are white Americans or Christian Americans not represented in these roles anymore, you look at higher education.
We got told we're not allowed.
We literally, because of liberal whites, quite frankly, because of liberal progressive whites, they literally made an anti-white system so that whites can't get into Harvard.
Whites can't get into any of these elite schools anymore.
Whites can't get jobs.
They can't get a CEO position.
So that's a lot of policy that liberal whites did.
So I think that there's kind of a little bit of both there.
I do think that American Jews can rise to power on their own merit, but then they make sure once an American Jew gets into that position, that that's the only person that's ever going to get into that position now is going to be another American Jew.
And they're going to make sure that their loyalty to Israel is still very prevalent as far as their politics is concerned.
And every example that you can point me to, I will happily denounce that and happily fight you with that.
And we can even file civil lawsuits against them because they're in violation or not just civil lawsuits, but you can file any lawsuits against them because that's a violation of our federal laws, right?
There's various things like that, especially nowadays, right?
When we completely threw away the idea of DEI or affirmative action and stuff like that.
So let's do this because I got to get ready for my show.
And this has been a great conversation.
We need more of it.
We probably even could have gotten a little more heated if we wanted to.
But let me ask you this, though, because I ultimately think this is where it's going to have to go.
And people are going to have to make concessions.
And what I see happening right now is whether, forget about however we feel about it.
I think we both agree, maybe not, but I think we both agree that the Israel issue is becoming this inflection point in American politics.
It's becoming a major split factor on the right.
It's going to divide the right.
I think that we're kind of seeing that process happen right now.
And so you're seeing a lot of conservatives right now looking at the left and they're willing to align on this issue and they're willing to make concessions politically in order to deal with what they think is their biggest issue of foreign policy or Israel directly.
So if you're looking at the American right and you've got a major wing over here that they're just, they're however you want to put it, anti-Israel, want nothing to do with it.
If there's a politician paid for by AIPAC, they're not going to vote.
If they look at the Republican Party being pro-Israel, they're not going to vote Republican.
Are there any concessions that the Israel lobby, are there any concessions that the American right can make on foreign policy or Israel to try to maintain a winning stance?
I think it's probably already gone.
But do you think there are any concessions?
Because the way I see it going, the Democrats are going to win at least two election cycles.
They're going to run on the anti-Israel issue.
They're going to bring a lot of voters into that.
I think that that's probably too late, but there's going to have to be an adjustment.
Maybe there's time for the right to make concessions.
Do you think there's any concessions that the right can make on foreign policy or Israel directly to try to maintain a winning stance in the midterms?
Or is it just too late or it's just too impossible?
Because really, as long as AIPAC controls both sides of Congress, it doesn't really matter who wins.
I actually don't necessarily know because I think that if Republicans just simply start to prioritize on actually codifying a lot of the executive voters pass and then passing actual immigration referendum, closing the loopholes for asylum seekers to come in here illegally and seek asylum.
Actually, meaningful things that the American people voted for.
And then at the same time, make slight concessions like, you know, how about we start to give less and less and less funding to Israel every year to eventually to the point of where we're not doing it whatsoever anymore.
I think that'd be a very interesting legislation that Republicans can offer and pass as a perhaps as a plan or something like that.
But I hardly, I don't think that Americans really do care about Israel as much as we believe it is to be.
I guess we'll start to see more polls as we get closer to the midterms.
But I really do hopefully, I do honestly do believe that if they prioritize on housing, healthcare, immigration, which is huge still for everybody, something regarding, let's say, what to do in terms of trade for the future.
These things actually matter for Americans.
I think we can actually win the midterms.
I don't think it's going to be a landslide.
I don't think it's going to be like a big gain or anything like that, but I think we'll end up having control of the House and the Senate only if they do that.
If they want to start to do something on foreign policy in terms of Israel to appease a certain crowd, start to do that.
Start to say we're going to gradually let go of A to Israel.
I think that'll make everybody happy.
I don't see a reason for APAC to exist at that point.
And just to maybe end on this note, just for something for people to think about, really think about if you want APAC to sign up as FARA.
I don't believe there's any reason for it to do that because there's no transactions that show us otherwise.
But you do understand that if they do become FARA, that means that they can accept Israeli government.
And that like that's, I thought the whole point here is like that we don't want Israeli's government to influence our politicians and stuff.
Yeah, I guess they just kind of look at it as the same body.
And, you know, Mary Adelson, Marion Adelson isn't really helping that with some of the comments and Levin either.
Well, this has been fun.
There were some questions here in the super chat.
I wasn't planning on taking super chats today.
So if we do this again, maybe we can.
But people in the super chat want to know about the arguments between liberal progressive Jews and conservative Jews.
And I always say it as a joke.
If you see a liberal progressive Jew and a conservative Jew start to argue, just get out of the room, just leave.
It's going to go on forever.
So but we'll get a shout out BA301, Thomas Jefferson, and Red Pill Science.
I just didn't plan on doing super chats today, so I'm not intentionally trying to ignore you.
All right, David Kate, good conversation.
More of this.
It's okay to disagree.
We're all humans.
We all want to live in peace and prosperity.
And we have to have talks like this in order to better accomplish these goals.
And I will say this.
This will be my closing note.
I think that we are in a generational turn right now.
And I feel like the older generations are whatever it is that's going on in their head with policy or the world order.
I feel like they're going for broke right now.
And they really don't care about the world that they're leaving us.
And I don't really care if you're white, black, brown, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Christian.
Eventually, we're all going to have to come together to fix this because they are just not, they're leaving us with a mess.
And I don't think our generation has hate in their heart.
I really think that 99% of us don't have hate in their heart.
We may have disagreements and we may have some seriously volatile discussions and debates, but I think we all want peace and prosperity.
I think maybe our generation can be the one that actually ends worthless wars.
We don't need wars anymore.
There's plenty of science, technology, and resources.
We can go to the stars.
We can go to space.
We don't need to fight over land.
So I believe it'll be our generation to do that.
I just hope that when we get through these next election cycles and millennials and Gen Xers and Zoomers and such start to get to have their hay and make their case politically, that'll be the time where maybe we can finally come together for peace and prosperity.
That's my hope.
That's why I have these conversations.
David, thank you for your time today.
Hope people follow you on Instagram, on X, and stay safe out there, man.