Tommy 'I'm Not Racist, I Have Black Friends' Robinson
Russell Brand and Tommy Robinson dissect Brand's controversial interview, where Robinson defends his white nationalist views on UK demographics while Brand admits to past sexual misconduct. They clash over direct democracy versus centralized governance, with Robinson warning of Sharia law adoption despite Muslims comprising only 6.5% of the population. The dialogue exposes Robinson's hypocrisy regarding LGBTQ+ issues and Brand's religious conversion as a preemptive measure against legal charges. Ultimately, the episode highlights the deep cultural fractures in Britain, contrasting fear-mongering rhetoric with the reality of a diverse society facing imminent judicial proceedings for Brand. [Automatically generated summary]
I became a Christian preempting that charges would appear from deep history.
I went to one wide party.
What?
What are you talking about?
I'm a migrant right now in the United States.
In fact, I would call myself an exile, a political exile.
Lying probably true.
Inevitably, I lie sometimes.
I feel that Christ may have had a better vision.
I'm the main problem.
I'm the main problem.
Let's go full screen on Russell.
This is On Brand, a podcast where we discuss the ideas and antics of one Russell Brand.
I'm Elworth, and every show I go through an episode of Stay Free with Russell Brand in order to dissect and debunk it.
This week, we are tackling the recent interview Russell did with none other than Tommy Robinson.
Tommy 10 names, Stephen Yaxley Lennon, etc., etc., right?
But before we get there, if anyone wants to support the show financially by becoming an Awakening Wonder, head to patreon.com slash on brand and sign up.
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Some wonderful wonders have signed up lately, including Campbell Hodgson.
Thank you for the sweet message, by the way, Campbell.
Very much appreciated.
Elliot and Everly.
Thank you all so much for becoming Awakening Wonders.
You are all deeply appreciated, as are the rest of you, wonders.
And if I missed anyone's shout outs, as ever, please drop me an email at the onbrandpod at gmail.com and I will get to it.
Let's get into this week's show.
As I mentioned, we'll be covering Russell's conversation with Tommy Robinson, which has been doing the rounds in media, both traditional and social.
But what most people don't seem to have realized is that this is actually their second conversation.
They first got together digitally at the tail end of summer of 2025, right before Tommy Robinson held his Unite the Kingdom rally in London.
And apparently, the kingdom must only consist of white men yelling slurs because those are essentially the only people that attended.
Nonetheless, we're going to take a brief look at that first conversation, which I initially had been reluctant to cover because it's basically just Tommy Robinson loudly complaining about Muslims and the number of mosques in the UK.
And frankly, he's not only a boring dipshit, but a liar at the best of times.
But what is notable about that conversation is the sheer enthusiasm with which Russell embraces Tommy from the very beginning.
Tommy, Tommy, Tommy, Tommy Robinson.
But I, but your real name is Stephen Yaxley Lennon.
Now, your real name is Steve.
Now, why won't you just put on a riding hat and admit that you're called Stephen Yaxley?
I see you on an interview once, mate.
I see you go, I see you go, you ate it, don't you?
You ate it that they do that Tommy Robinson thing, don't you?
You ate it.
Mate, are we recording?
Are we recording?
All right, where was she last time?
I was ready to do an interview.
Then I look on ex Tommy Robinson, Lamps a geezer in the underground.
No, no, he started it.
He started it.
What's it like?
I'll tell you, I know once you start, you're going to go.
So let me, I'm going to get out of my system.
I'm going to get out of my system.
Russell is just raring to go here.
And evidently, this was their second attempt at trying to interview Tommy Robinson.
Apparently, he had been busy assaulting someone at St Pancras Station in London the first time to the point of knocking a man unconscious.
Covering Tommy Robinson's Reach00:15:13
Though he then fled the UK and went to Portugal, he did come back and was arrested, but he got away without being charged, as according to the Crown Prosecution Service, there was not a reasonable prospect of conviction.
Which is surprising given the amount of CCTV cameras at St Pancras, as well as the numerous times Tommy Robinson has already been to prison.
But hey, I guess I'm not privy to all the details of the case.
It's just I see fresh stories of climate activists and protesters and pro-Palestine activists being arrested and charged seemingly every week for non-violent protest, no less.
And yet a prominent white nationalist knocks a man unconscious and all of a sudden crickets from the UK justice system.
If you're wondering what I'm talking about, there was a study last year which found that nearly 7,000 climate protesters overall were arrested between 2019 and mid-2025, according to FOIA requests by the Met police.
Around 60% of those arrested were subsequently charged.
In comparison, only 400, around 400 far-right agitators were arrested over the same period.
And they were charged only 32% of the time, despite far-right activists being substantially more likely to be arrested for violent crimes.
So while climate activists were overwhelmingly detained for peaceful acts of civil disobedience, things like blocking roads and whatnot, while white nationalists are shouting racist chants en masse, fighting the police and setting fire to hotels where asylum seekers are staying.
Just, yeah, just a little bit of a different approach, it seems.
As for pro-Palestine activists, the UK government unlawfully declared Palestine action to be a terrorist group.
And supporting the group, as well as a free Palestine, has led to more than 2,700 arrests in around eight months under UK terrorism laws.
That is the most in the history of having terrorism laws.
Tommy Robinson, on the other hand, has been having a gay old time in Israel as he went there last October on an official state visit paid for by the Israeli government.
Oh, and good news, Americans.
He's just been to the US on an official state visit there too.
Paid for by you.
Isn't the world great?
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to leap into things that really piss me off right off the bat, but it does seem this man whose rap name would definitely be Violent Thumb brings something out in me.
Anyway, from here we learn just how long Russell has been following Tommy Robinson.
Now, I've been watching you for a long time.
I've been watching you longer than I bet you, like, even when there was stuff going on, I reckon it must be over 10 years ago, over 10 years ago.
Even the stuff where I think he was maybe with Moan Sar and they were doing that stuff, trying to get working class British people and Muslims to get it on.
But ages ago, ages ago, Tommy, I thought like, like I see, I thought if the Labour Party can't reach the people that this geezer's reaching, there ain't no point having a Labour Party.
That's what I thought ages ago, before when I still would have been like, I'm not sure about this geezer and all of that, when I would have had a lot of liberal stuff.
Yeah, all is liberal stuff and they're telling people not to vote and then everybody should vote for Ed Miliband.
And then Ed Miliband lost the election, so Russell quickly tried to take it all back and told everyone not to vote again.
You know, classic liberal stuff.
In any case, it seems Russell has been following Tommy Robinson for over a decade in a generally supportive fashion, apparently.
But the thought I want to highlight there is if the Labour Party can't reach the type of people that Tommy Robinson is reaching, what's the point of having a Labour Party?
Now, the type of people that Tommy Robinson typically courts can almost uniformly be described as either racists, xenophobes, or more likely both.
Be it through ignorance or genuine malice, they end up with the same outcome of yelling about Muslimic ray guns.
So the thought here is, if Labour can't reach the xenophobes and racists, well, what's the point of a Labour Party?
And it occurred to me, I may have done Russell a grave disservice this last few years while I've been covering him.
See, I've known from more or less the beginning that he's a font of ignorance, not knowing terribly much about most of the things he tries to cover.
And so while it is infuriating he doesn't know basic facts like that the UK is a Christian country or that we do have a constitution over here, it's been pretty much within my realm of expectations of him.
What I didn't realize was that Russell is so ignorant, he has no idea what the Labour Party is or what it's supposed to be.
Now, in fairness, the Labour government have also had trouble with this concept for a while now, and so I understand it is tricky.
But generally, Labour are a centre-left political party who are supposed to be in service of the common people, particularly workers and the poor, historically speaking.
The National Health Service is a good example of the types of things a Labour government should be doing, as it was founded by Labour and roundly argued against by the Tories and Winston Churchill himself.
They are also typically in favour of diversity and migration, and so why in the unholy fuck should the Labour Party be trying to reach the Tommy Robinson types?
It's a terrible and stupid idea, and if you want to see just how bad of an idea it is, take a look at Labour's polling numbers since Keir Starmer has been pandering to all the racists in the country and making Enoch Powell references in his speeches.
It is not going well for them.
So I mentioned that I didn't really want to cover much of the first conversation between Russell and Tommy Robinson, so I thought what I'd do is find a clip that sums up the whole thing pretty neatly.
We need to make it cool to be British, because it's not at the minute.
it's called to be islamic which is why i want to convert i i i think i might get that as a ringtone Everyone knows all the cool people aren't wanting to be British.
They're wanting to be Islamic.
Clearly, Islam has a better PR department than the UK.
And actually, this is just a battle much like Coke versus Pepsi, only with more flags being tied to lampposts to intimidate the brown people.
Oh, dear.
It's dip shittery abounds.
The other thing I wanted to highlight before we get to the interview proper is that after the recent interview, Russell went and did a stand-up set somewhere nearby in Florida, and Tommy Robinson went along.
This clip is a bit of Russell praising Tommy in front of the crowd, and then Tommy's response after the show.
He's a controversial figure, because he's a brave, bold man.
He's very, very English.
He's as English as a Toby Jack.
He's as English as a mighty cross.
He's as English as a suit of armour, as a cross, as a bulldog.
He's doing some good, good work, and he's paying a high price for it.
So, absolutely, I'm going to applaud him.
We just watched Russell Brand's show, which I was expecting to just be a comedy show.
It wasn't.
It was a comedy show mixed with preaching the Bible.
Yep, I can't fault him for accuracy on that one.
If you go to one of Russell's shows these days expecting a comedy gig, good luck to you.
You are about to be given a lecture on Christianity by a man who still has to carry two copies of the Bible on his person just to make sure he doesn't cock it up.
Mercifully, at this one, I did spy someone drinking a glass of wine.
So it's at least an improvement on his Austin, Texas gig where no one was even allowed to drink water.
And in the other clip I pulled from this event, we learned that Tommy Robinson is actually a mind reader.
And the difference here, say like I'm here in the venue, if I was in a venue in the UK, they'd be so worried.
The owner comes over there, says, I've been watching everything you're doing.
Absolute pleasure to have you here.
In England, owners of venues will think that.
They're too scared to say it.
They'd actually say, can you please not show that you were here in them?
That's what's happening in the UK.
So, yeah.
To have the confidence of a mediocre stray white man.
That's right.
The people at venues in the UK all secretly think you're great.
They're just too scared to say it out loud.
But you can tell they're all thinking how great you are.
I have heard some serious self-soothing bullshit in my time, but that one does take the cake.
All right.
So now we get to the recent conversation with Russell and Tommy.
As Tommy has been on one of his little media tours, in this case, it's prompted by him having to flee the UK due to apparently being named in an Islamic publication which encouraged others to inflict violence upon him.
So he fled the UK and irony of all ironies, is now essentially a refugee seeking asylum outside of the UK.
Or more likely, he'll be back in a few months when the publicity's died down, but we'll see.
Additionally, I must say, against all odds, Russell and Tommy did something which genuinely surprised me in this show.
They had an actually interesting conversation.
Obviously, I'm not covering all of it.
I've had to cut much of it out, including Tommy talking about his stint in rehab, which is genuinely kind of interesting.
It's him trying to learn empathy and doing seemingly badly, but eventually getting there.
And I'm like, huh, I wonder what would happen if we just kept you there.
You know, would you eventually come out a whole human being?
Yeah, it was an interesting conversation.
I realize as I do this show, my bar for what's interesting might be significantly lower than other people's.
But at many points during the interview, I was genuinely curious what was going to be said.
And this first clip highlights a little bit of how that happened.
Russell Brandt.
All right, mate.
I've got a million questions.
Go on.
A million questions.
Good to be here.
God bless you.
Yes, good to meet you in all.
I've watched your journey.
Ups, downs, highs, lows.
Obviously now brought you to you're a devout Christian now.
So I want to get onto all of these things.
Obviously, AA as well.
I want to hear about all of this because I was a bit of an arsehole years ago when you were doing your...
I used to mock you.
Did you?
Yeah.
Not mock you, but I used to say, I used to only make comments about crackhead, but I didn't know about rehabilitation.
I didn't know about addiction.
Yeah.
And then years on, I'm sitting thinking he's come through addiction, goes to meetings, great example to set to people.
But not back then.
So let's start at the beginning, Russell.
I just want to ask you lots of questions about who is Russell Brandt?
Where does it start?
Yeah, how did you become such a great example to people, Russell?
So there's this bizarre dynamic for most of the conversation where Tommy Robinson is essentially interviewing Russell on his own show.
It's not at all what I expected, and it leads to some surprisingly candid moments from both of these individuals, for better or worse.
Also, yeah, Tommy Robinson used to be a dick about Russell's previous drug usage to the shock of literally no one.
From here, Russell gives his assessment of how much he loves Tommy and what he wishes he might change about him.
I always respected you.
I respect anyone that's willing to go to jail for what they believe in and to die for what they believe in.
And I know that you would and you know that you might die for what you believe in.
That's the most important thing a man can do.
What I've always thought, Tommy, is that because of, in matter of fact, now we're talking about recovery, because I think you've probably taken a lot of injuries in your life as a young man that I would put down to not receiving the love that you deserved as a child of God, that that anger and hate finds its way into your political perspective.
I think you're right about a lot of things.
And I think the world of British politics in particular needs you.
But I think my prayer is that we find the version of you that has the compassion that's required of the type of leadership that you might be gifted with.
Yeah, I don't think any of it's out of hate.
Obviously, I'll get angry on issues, but I think most of them, it would be impossible to do what we do out of hate.
You just couldn't do it out of hate.
I'll do it out of hate.
Well, anger then.
Anger.
Anger.
But I do most of my things out of love.
I love my kids.
I love my country.
I love my town.
I love all of it.
Yeah.
And it's in danger.
You know, I do agree with the broad concept, right?
That at its core, both sides of the political spectrum are kind of motivated by wanting to protect what they hold dear, right?
The values will be different and the plan of how to protect something will be different, often radically so.
But I do believe it is often motivated by a place of protectiveness, affection or love, right?
For instance, I'm from Wales and I am a Welsh nationalist, meaning I do love my country.
And I will have that in common with a Welsh nationalist on the extreme right.
But where I believe migrants can come to my country, live here, contribute, be part of the community, and in fact call themselves Welsh, the person on the extreme right will likely disagree.
We're both motivated by a love of country, but with radically different versions of how to care for and protect said country.
And as a starting point, yes, I'm sure Tommy Robinson does love England and his family and his town.
And maybe that is where all of his rhetoric ultimately stems from, at least according to him.
But when your love of country starts turning into racist chants, into whipping white nationalists into a violent frenzy, into xenophobic witch hunts, well, that becomes something else entirely now, doesn't it?
As it stands, Tommy Robinson is widely known as one of the most outwardly hateful and incendiary people in the United Kingdom, renowned for leading marches of violent thugs against the existence of brown people in England and fear-mongering about Muslims at the highest possible level.
And there is no part of the underlying ideology of white Christian nationalism that does not stem from hatred of anyone who isn't those things.
And Tommy will prove my point later on in this very show, but of course.
From here, however, he talks a little bit about when he started his career as a thug before saying something a little bit revealing.
It's hard, Joe, it's hard when you're clashing.
Say you're clashing, which we did very early on.
Early on, it was the set, the scene was set.
We were young Englishmen.
We're going into towns and cities.
Young Muslim men are coming out.
It's understandable.
Groups are clashing.
The Cost of Bigotry00:07:09
It's pretty hard not to have that mentality on demonstration day where you're under attack and then you feel constantly under attack.
I feel constantly under attack.
I don't hear, actually.
I think, actually, I feel here.
Chance, I've been here.
I feel like a different person.
It's insane.
I'm still thinking, I'm always thinking negatively.
Yeah.
Back home.
Yeah.
All the time.
Yeah.
Renowned white nationalist feels at home in Florida.
Who could have guessed it?
Who possibly could have seen it coming?
You know?
And just a moment before Tommy Robinson highlighted the mentality of the entire far right.
I feel constantly under attack.
It's the same thing I've heard from Russell dozens of times.
Jordan Peterson, Tucker Carlson, Candace Owens, all of them are the perpetual victim, claiming they're being attacked or shut down for the things that they say at all times.
All the while decrying a culture of people playing the victim.
In Candace Owens' case, she means black people, Tommy Robinson means refugees, and Jordan Peterson mostly means women.
But when they feel attacked, oh, well, sound the trumpets, one and all.
Your favorite idiot with a microphone feels aggrieved.
We ride at dawn.
And let's not spare a thought for how those Muslim lads you were kicking the shit out of might have felt, shall we, Tommy?
I'm sure none of them possibly felt maybe a bit victimized by a bunch of white nationalist thugs out for a fight.
Really, I think we're looking at crushing levels of narcissism combined with a distinct lack of empathy or even worse, the idea that empathy is weakness.
And eventually they all just become fragile little shells.
In their own way, they are all so very, very sad and small.
It's kind of pathetic.
Now, from here, Tommy asks Russell if he used to exploit women and treat them essentially as an addiction.
Do you think that during the addiction you were using women as the?
Yes.
Oh, yeah.
It was the exploitative.
It was definitely.
The thing is, the truth is, it was wrong.
It ain't right.
Even when you're sexual assault, but it's wrong.
He was always quite open and honest.
Yeah.
About you.
It was all in the shows.
It's all in the stand-up shows.
Like at the end of the shows, mate, I was going like, if you, you might think, oh, Russell Brand is so attractive and he's a big star.
Oh, if only I was good enough to have sex with him.
Give it, go.
You probably are.
Come backstage.
Anyone aged between 18 and death, give it a whirl.
I was just saying that at the end of the shows.
It's not for an autograph, though, unless you want that autograph on the wall of your uterus in sperm.
Like, man, Nikia was like, was you just saying that, or was you participating?
Was you taking goals?
If you see a goal you like, was you?
Yeah, do you want to come backstage?
You up for it?
What are you saying, love?
That's where I lived.
Now, look, me, as a 50-year-old man, father of three, that's not a good way to live.
My job is to protect women, to love women.
Ah, yes.
Russell Brand, famous protector of women.
There are moments I would genuinely like to know how Russell views himself, and this is very much one of them.
Because how he sees himself cannot be the same way the rest of us see this man.
It just cannot.
Also, I would like to note one of the things Russell got most upset about when the Dispatches documentary came out detailing, you know, some of the terrible things he allegedly did.
They used chunks of his stand-up sets where he was saying horrific things about women and sex, you know, to accentuate the points, right, between the horrors.
And he got really pissed off about that at the time.
Really upset him.
But now, oh no, it's all in the stand-up.
It's all in the stand-up, which incidentally is where Russell rattled off that line about signing an autograph in sperm from.
It was an old bit of his, and it really does highlight just how gross most of his old stand-up comedy was, if you can even call it that.
Like, if you want an education in how times have changed since the mid-2000s, Russell's stand-up really does the trick.
Thank fuck we have moved on as a society in at least some measure.
Or of course, listen to the book club episodes that I've been doing going through his book from 2007.
It is fucking harrowing.
Oh, and speaking of all this perpetual victimhood stuff, Russell once again explains why he's no longer a big movie star.
That's my job here.
My job's not, I'm important, adore me.
So you were right to say I was a dick, because when you were saying I was, that is what I was.
I was self-aggrandizing, self-consumed person, living on the culture, living on the sugar and sweets of the culture like an imbecile.
And that's when I was fine.
That's when they're willing to pay you.
The minute you stop and start going, what's going on with Moderna?
What's going on with Pfizer?
What's going on with all these wars?
I remembered where I'm from.
I remembered who I am.
And when that happens, they're not interested no more.
The Tempest 2010, budget of $20 million, box office takings of $346,000.
Arthur 2011, budget of $40 million, box office takings of $48 million.
Rock of Ages 2012, budget of $75 million, box office takings of $59 million.
Paradise 2013, budget undisclosed, but with a cast of Russell Brand, Julianne Hough, Octavia Spencer, and Nick Offerman.
It probably wasn't tiny.
Box office takings were reportedly $6,000 in the US.
I'm just saying, after that run of films, Russell's career never quite recovered, even if he did voice a character in Despicable Me.
And yeah, that may have a lot more to do with why suddenly no one was interested in propping Russell up anymore.
You know, suddenly you've lost us millions of dollars, or at least everything you touch turns to shit.
Yeah, coincidentally, his turn to politics came in 2013 with his terrible book Revolution coming out the next year.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's not that he was questioning things, it's that he sucked and any project he worked on tanked.
Oh, and he was a liability in other ways too, because during that last movie, Paradise, he got himself arrested during the filming for grabbing a photographer's iPhone and throwing it out a window.
And he's just generally famously an absolute ass to actually work with.
But hey, how dare my actions have consequences?
So the next clip starts out with the story of Russell being called to Hollywood, right?
And ends on a little bit of a bleak note that took me by surprise.
So I got one of them amazing phone calls where it's like, oh, the Hollywood agent of Adam Sandler wants you to come to Los Angeles.
Like a few years before, I'm like signing on.
I'm like doing gigs above pubs and all that.
Now I've like glamoured myself up.
Hollywood Dreams and Addiction00:08:27
You're clean at this point.
You've done real quick.
A couple of years, three years clean.
You know, when you went to rehab and you come out and you found your high power, was it God then?
Because you're very religious now.
I knew God was real.
I knew God was real before.
I knew God for a true.
Have you ever took acid, Tommy?
No.
All right.
Well, that was too long of a pause.
So like, um.
Like, anyway, when I took son's up there, oh, yeah.
Listen, being a bigoted piece of shit for money, I get it.
It's an industry and that's how you make your money.
All right.
But bringing your kids along for the ride?
For this conversation?
Jesus Christ, dude.
I wonder if Tommy's son also got taken off to InfoWars Studios where Tommy was chatting to Alex Jones that very same week.
Maybe he got to meet Alex's son, Rex, who has also been raised in the game of shitty white nationalist media.
It is something I find truly upsetting to think about.
Also, I've no doubt in my mind that Tommy Robinson has done a boatload of drugs in his time.
Cocaine is the typical choice for the football hooligans, but I'm going to guess acid isn't off the table.
Oh, and of course, Russell knew when taking acid that God was real.
Yeah, that's not just hallucinogens doing their job or anything.
No, no, it must be God.
Now, next up, I'm going to play a longer clip of Russell describing his first meeting and subsequent relationship with Katie Perry.
It's not something he talks about in detail very often.
Like, he'll bring her up on surprisingly regularly, just mention casually the fact that he was married to her, but doesn't usually go into detail.
So, it is kind of interesting for him to talk about it more openly, as is where this clip eventually goes.
Katie Perry, right?
I was at the Radio City Hall, massive venue in New York.
Thousands of people is where the Rockets place.
Glamorous as it's mad, mate.
It's beautiful in there.
Thousands of seats says, Over there, it's Jay-Z, Beyoncé, all these famous people.
When you see it, it's all it was the year when Kanye nicked the thing off Taylor Swift.
That was the year.
I never saw that bit because the teleprompter had gone down.
And I was like, What's up with the teleprompter?
Because I had to improvise it because the teleprompter went down.
I couldn't remember, you know, I had to come up with a load of stuff anyway.
It was, I was dealing with that kind of thing.
Anyway, in the rehearsal of that, Katie Perry, God lover, she lobbed a bottle at my head, a plastic bottle.
It was like to flirt, Katie.
We're flirting.
Katie frozen.
She threw a bottle at my head.
You're about to go up and chatting to someone.
Well, that's not the way she rolls, old Katie P.
She threw that bottle at me.
She's a religious girl, no?
She's back.
Her dad's a pastor, no?
Her dad, yeah, Keith.
I stayed friends with her father, Keith, Pastor Keith, good man, and her mum, Mary Goodman.
What did he think of you, though?
Because he was all right.
He always says to me now, I always knew you were a man of God.
I knew God was on your case.
I knew the Lord would get you.
Now, Katie, she's lovely.
I mean, we went, it was amazing to fall in love with a pop star.
You're so like, I'm from Gray's in Essex.
I'm from Grey.
You're going to end up working.
A little fat kid at school.
I was a little fat kid at school.
You're going to work at a call center or you're going to work at Forges or whatever.
You're not even good enough to be in the football team.
Pop stars.
Now it's amazing.
It's amazing.
It's sort of incredible.
And she was a lovely person, but it was my fault really because I wanted to marry her.
I wanted to marry her because I've sort of wanted to hold on to her, I suppose.
You know, so I guess I rushed it.
When it came to the divorce, mate, it was because I think both of us realized we were sort of different people on different how long was you with her?
I think in total, it might have been just under a couple of years.
Do you think if you had a kid at Mike Loxard?
Oh, some people have a kid and then they stay together for the family.
Thank the Lord there wasn't a kid.
Thank the Lord there wasn't.
But like, you know, and I pray for her.
I pray that she's happy.
Pray for her.
Well, your prayers ain't gone very well.
She's ended up with fucking Justin Trudeau.
That is what I prayed for.
I said, let her marry a Mel God.
Let her marry a Melton.
Let her marry a globalist little sick.
He's gay.
He's gay, isn't he?
I mean, my guess would be, I don't know, thanks going on.
Thanks going on, mate.
I don't know.
I don't know.
She knows his beard.
But what I would say, hands up if you were slightly surprised that Tommy Robinson knows what a beard is, because I was.
Predictably, calling a man gay is the high point of comedy for these two.
Even if he is literally in a relationship with Katy Perry, who intensely out of touch as she may be, is still a smoking honkey.
Oh, he's gay, is he?
Fucking hell.
Oh, and also, who else totally forgot that Russell was the one hosting the VMAs when Kanye interrupted Taylor Swift?
I've relearned that fact about six times and it just keeps getting memory hold.
I'm like, ah, that's that's that's gone.
Um, and yeah, Katie Perry's uh, Katy Perry's dad is a right-wing pastor.
Um, Alex Jones likes to talk about him every now and then.
Ouch, doesn't sound good.
Um, so so from here, Russell uh finishes discussing Katy Perry, and I get the impression, audience, let me know what you think.
That Tommy Robinson is still a little bit bitter about his divorce a few years ago.
But I Justin Trudeau, yeah, he's not a person I feel naturally drawn to, I've got to tell you, but although he might be naturally drawn to us from on the basis of what you're saying, given his tendency, but there he is.
He's with Katie now.
When I got divorced, mate, what I've done was in California, if you get divorced, you're entitled to have 50% of your spouse's gear.
And I, like, and at that time, Katie Perry, and at this time, Katie Perry was double, double rich.
She'd had all that fireworks and all them songs, you know, she was minted.
And I went, look, this ain't worked out.
I don't need no money or nothing.
Let's just try and do this in the night.
What was you worth at that time?
Do you have me asking?
I don't know.
I don't know.
I'm not good with money, mate.
Okay.
Do you have someone manage money?
Thank the Lord now.
I've got good people backing me.
But at that time.
Yeah, of course I did.
Oh, you have all them Hollywood agents, mate.
At that time, compared to her, you'd be 10 times less than her.
Yeah, absolutely.
10 times less than her.
And you just walked away with what was yours?
Yeah, I'll be all right.
You didn't take...
No, I didn't need it.
Okay, fair play.
Yeah, no, also that's not my, see, in spite, look, like I'm trying to tell you this sort of, I'm trying to give you.
Women, you can learn a lot from this.
Although, you know, I'm in no position to be talking about women right now, Tommy.
Okay, we're going to get stant trial, June, and September.
Yeah, that's a topic best avoided with a trial in June and possibly September by the sound of it.
My understanding is the new charges against Russell, the two new criminal charges against Russell, will undergo an assessment of whether they should be included in the trial in June.
But based on my half a law degree's worth of expertise, which is to say, not very much expertise, I think it's unlikely it'll all be rolled into one and a separate trial for those will probably go ahead.
But as ever, we shall see.
And yeah, Russell didn't need Katy Perry's money.
He still firmly sits among the multi-multi-millionaires on his own.
Tommy Robinson, on the other hand, yeah, seems a little bit upset about the prospect of divorce, possibly due to the fact his ex-wife Jenna Vols got the £700,000 house in the divorce, among other things.
Not only that, but in August 2024, the Times reported that Tommy Robinson owed in the region of £2 million to his creditors and said he and associates had created a web of secretive companies which made profits of over £1.6 million without paying tax.
Over six years, directors of these entities failed to file any annual accounts with one of the companies, Hope and Pride Limited, owing £328,000 in corporation tax and employer contributions to HMRC.
Tommy Robinson was then the subject of an HMRC, you know, inland revenue tax investigation and was reported to have discussed becoming non-resident for tax purposes.
Isn't it weird how these so-called patriots are always the ones who never pay their taxes and usually officially live abroad so they can evade UK tax altogether?
Isn't that strange?
You know, like that fucking guy that owns Manchester United, right?
Tax Evasion and Slurs00:05:41
You know, like, if you want to complain about fucking brown people in this country, I do expect you to at least pay your taxes here.
And then you have a right to the conversation.
Otherwise, get fucked.
Now, to those who have listened to the full book club episode on the Patreon, the last one that I did, the next story will not surprise you as Russell is going to recount something he did in his sordid past.
And Tommy is positively scandalized by it.
I was 27 when I got clean and I was about 30 when I got famous.
But for that period of time that I was an active drug addict, you're living in a very, very different world.
You're living in a world where you're obviously going to crack houses.
You're in a world where, obviously, sometimes, because I didn't have no real money then, you're having to scrape together pennies and sort it out to score.
You're having to do unusual, weird shit to get drugs sometimes.
So, what weird shit?
Well, I guess being around people.
I never like, you know, crossed the line when it came to.
I never had to, like, do no iron jobs.
Although I did do one in that documentary that you...
You see that documentary series where I...
Mark Collette.
One of the other ones was I tossed off homeless fat.
No, hold on a minute.
I'm mixing the streams.
I had a bath.
I had a bath with a homeless guy and I think this was on the TV.
And I like, I wanked off a geezer in a toilet.
What?
Yeah, tough times.
Tough times.
You were the fucker.
It was at the time that Jackass was out.
You know that show, Jackass?
You thought I'll beat them.
I'll wank someone off in the toilet.
You think you're brave falling off a skateboard?
I'll toss off this fella in the toilet.
Try it out on Facade in Oxford.
Yeah, I did.
In a Soho toilet.
Yeah, in a Soho toilet.
Yeah, crazy days.
Who did you wank off in the toilet?
I can't remember his name, mate.
To tell you the absolute truth.
But like, he was a lovely fella.
I met him in like, you see, around Dean Street.
Can't work like you've been.
Are you serious?
Yeah.
It was like in them gay bars around Dean Street.
It's on the television.
You wanking off a bloke sometimes?
I think the episode was called Wanky Wank.
Because you used to be pretty pro-LGBTQ.
He was back in Dan.
Yeah.
He was in that circle mood.
This is what I mean.
He was in that sort of side of the, what I'd say is the wrong side.
Yeah, congrats, Tommy.
You're a bigot in all kinds of ways.
We're all very impressed.
This is possibly like the high point of the interview in terms of mood.
As Tommy is responding to Russell's singular homosexual experience like a teenage boy who's just been told what blowjobs are.
You know, he is absolutely giddy at the news that Russell gave a guy a hand job once.
It's genuinely fascinating to watch this man react in such a childlike way.
Not even childish, it is, but childlike.
Now, Russell wants to move along from this and try and make some kind of point out of all of it, but he doesn't quite get to.
All right, hold on.
Let's get this straight.
Let's get this straight.
You wanked off a bloke in the toilet.
The video's out there.
I can't deny that.
You can't calf straight in the same sentences as you.
Just wanked off a man in the toilet.
That's fair enough.
But what I'm saying about myself and about maybe woke is in more general, the idea of being compassionate and kind and non-judgmental and loving to all is supremely important.
I know what it says in here about same-sex relationships, but it also says stuff about promiscuity in here.
So I don't have the problem of same-sex relationships, except for, as we've just discussed, I did wank off a man in the toilet for a television program.
But the problem that I did have was I was very, very promiscuous.
What the fuck?
But how long?
How was on?
How old are you when you wanked off a man in the toilet?
25.
Oh, when you was a junkie.
Yeah, I was a junkie.
Oh, so you were doing anything?
Well, I wasn't doing that for drugs.
But you're doing it for the show.
Did you do that?
Because it would blow up your name.
Yeah.
So that's about prostitute yourself.
I suppose so.
But in the man.
Hold on a minute.
Do you want to hear in the toilet shop?
Fuck off.
Tommy, you've gotten a bit caught up on this.
I'm caught up in it.
I wasn't expecting it.
It came out of nowhere.
That's how it ended as well.
Do you notice how the tone shifted in Tommy's voice as soon as he realized Russell was on drugs when he gave that hand job?
Like, oh, that makes sense in my brain now.
You're on drugs.
That's why you did a gay thing.
Because otherwise, doing anything with a penis would have been insane.
I would also like to highlight the part of the point that Russell was making was very much, oh, being gay is wrong.
It says so in the Bible, but I'm not allowed to judge other people because I have my own problems.
He's a hate the sin, love the sinner type of bigot.
And I almost kind of hate them more than the full-throated kind, you know, who'll just yell at you in the street.
Because like, don't fucking smile at me and serve me tea while thinking deep down that I'm going to hell for eternity, you know?
Like, if you're going to feel that way, then do so in a way that is obvious.
Now, the conversation about Russell's old show Rebrand continues, particularly in discussing the episode Nazi Boy, where Russell back in 2001 interviewed someone Tommy Robinson knows all too well.
Fair warning, he is going to use a slur to describe the man.
But what it was is, remember, I'm like a little punk artist kid.
I'm trying to do weird, interesting stuff, hanging out with prostitutes, tossing off a geezer in the toilet, hanging out, went up to Leeds with Mark Collette and all them going, what's you like?
White British Culture Shifts00:15:26
Mark Collette, if you don't know Mark Collette, he's a little mong.
Pisses me off.
I'll tell you what he is.
He's educated, middle class, university graduated, and he draws working class kids in to manipulate them into Nazi ideology.
They end up ruining their life.
He stays there quite articulate, clever, sitting back whilst he fucks all of them.
That's what, that's my description of Mark Collette.
He was in the BMP.
He then become a prominent, he never goes to prison.
All the groups he runs or works with end up prescribed terrorist organizations that he always sits there smiling as the other dickheads who get involved.
Are you saying about Mark Collette then?
Because I it seemed me as an outsider of it, the difference between like our Tommy Robinson and Mark Collette, what's the difference?
White nationalism, all that kind of stuff.
What's the difference?
What's Mark Collette believe in that you don't believe in?
He believes in white supremacy.
Right.
He believes.
So that's like all races are inferior.
To him.
To white race.
And you don't believe.
I'm from Luton Town.
So I've never black geek.
Black people seek making a money.
It's just.
I don't give monkeys, but I believe that as a nation, we're losing our identity and our culture due to us becoming a minority in many towns and cities.
So England needs to remain and Britain needs to remain a majority white nation because if Nigeria become, if Nigeria needs to remain a majority black nation, if they start becoming a minority in their own country, it's wrong.
And if the Japanese start becoming the minority in their own country, it's wrong.
So that demographical change and replacement, whatever way you want to look at it, 33% of London's white English now.
That's not right for the capital city of our country.
And along with that comes the problems that we're all witnessing.
So it's not 33%.
According to the last census in 2021, London is made up of 36.8% white British, 20.8% Asian British, 17% white non-British, 13.5% black British, 5.7% mixed and 6.3% other.
So overwhelmingly British, it's just the white British bit is 36.8%, right?
The UK at large, however, has a population that is roughly 80% white British, 10% non-white British, and 10% migrants slash students slash people only here temporarily.
It's just, you know, well, migrants tend to go where the work is, and that's usually in major cities.
And so things get skewed in that direction.
Major cities is also where the universities tend to be.
And we get a lot of overseas students coming to the UK for higher education, which is excellent.
And so, again, that's going to skew the numbers as well.
In any case, this bit of fear-mongering Tommy's engaging in is actually very much explainable and not at all a problem.
Ask anyone who lives in London, and I promise you, after complaining about rent prices, the next thing they will do is tell you how everyone should live in London and how amazing it is there, and you should definitely move there now.
It's kind of a condition of living there.
Anyway, credit where it's due, Russell did ask an incisive question there.
After all, what is the difference between Tommy Robinson and this person he hates who has a Nazi ideology?
Well, there's the fact that Mark Collette is university educated and Tommy hates that for some reason.
Given that in the UK these days, a lot of people are going to university because, you know, we don't have, we still have some university fees, but it's, you know, 9,000 a year still for most.
I think I paid 6,000 for mine a year.
So yeah, it feels like a very dated critique.
Like some figures even put it at above 50% of people go to university when you also take mature students into account.
Also, above 50% go into higher education of the population total.
But otherwise, well, you know, the other difference is Tommy just doesn't like this whole white supremacy bit.
Of course, he then goes on to explain how terrible it would be if England were no longer a majority white nation.
So it does feel like we're very much arguing the difference between a spade and a shovel here in that they are essentially the same thing.
Tommy Robinson very obviously lacks the ability to distinguish between race and culture.
Now, for me, I couldn't give two shits if the UK becomes minority white, provided it remains majority British.
Like if that 10% of non-white British population eventually becomes more than 50% non-white British, they're still British, will have been born here and will have been raised in British culture.
The culture doesn't disappear with skin colour.
But culture is subject to change.
It's not a static thing, right?
Elements of British culture, much like the English language, are Danish or French.
We have customs from the Romans.
And British culture is especially subject to change because the British Empire invaded and colonized half the goddamn planet.
There was a point in time where cups of tea were not a frequent thing in Britain, you know, before we invaded everywhere.
All of that said, again, I am Welsh, right?
We have gone through what's been described as cultural genocide from the English for the last 750 years.
We had our land taken from us, our language taken from us, our rituals taken from us, and yet, Welsh culture still exists.
If you're so terrified that British culture will evaporate at the prospect of not everyone being white anymore, all you're telling me is how weak and fragile you think British culture is.
You're a supposed goddamn patriot who sincerely believes Britishness is such a feeble concept as to be overridden in a matter of decades.
Pay your taxes and have some belief in your own culture, you sad little man.
From here, Russell asks another surprisingly incisive question, and Tommy ties himself in knots trying to answer.
But hold on, Nick.
If you're not a white supremacist, why are we drawing the distinction of white English and black English?
Who cares?
Like white, black English.
Exactly the point I just made.
So if I moved to Nigeria and white people started moving to Nigeria, would it be acceptable that they become a minority in their own country?
Historically, this is a thousand years of history of white Christian nations.
Got it.
But how does that mean?
I don't believe.
So I've got most of my mates who are black who are grown up in Luton.
They're English.
They cast themselves as English.
Ethnically, they're not English.
Culturally, they are.
They're brought up as English.
So I'd say my mates are English.
I stand with them.
Okay, so Tommy has brown and black mates, apparently, who he describes as being English, who were culturally brought up as English, and so he has no problem with them.
But well, other people being brown and raised as English, well, that's an issue, supposedly.
Like, I'm curious how he thinks his brown mates got there.
Because, you know, the British Isles are natively white.
And so some brown person at some point will have had to come here from another country, have kids, and then start raising their children as British.
And then they eventually became friends with Tommy Robinson.
Which, other than the Tommy Robinson part, I think is completely fine.
But I know that he absolutely despises that notion on principle.
Or more likely, he'd say, oh, but people coming here now aren't raising their children as British, which is just some nonsensical bullshit with literally zero evidence.
Make no mistake, he is fully leaning into the, I have a black friend, so I can't be racist shtick.
That's all that this is.
So next up, Russell presents his idea of, you know, tiny theocratic ethnostates to Tommy Robinson, essentially, but particularly from the direction of what he calls direct democracy.
What I believe, Tommy, is I'm very, very sick and tired of ordinary people being lied to by people that are exploiting them.
I'm tired of that.
And I'm starting to wonder if even the concept of a one nation with a centralized government is ever going to work again.
I don't think it can is the answer.
I think as long as if you're able to replace the Labour Party with a reform Tory conglomerate, it's going to be basically the same for the majority of people.
You might see a little bit of change in the direction of whatever you're replacing with.
Decentralized, direct, participatory democracy.
Direct democracy, which is, so the five-star, did you look at the five-star movement in Italy?
In Italy.
Yeah, Bepe Grillo.
Yeah, they fucked it.
They're Italians, Tommy.
They wouldn't have been out of focus.
They're all mamma mia, neck in the pastas, and they out on the vespers.
Hey, mamma mia, chiga damareta.
You can't rely on them.
Don't judge the English from the qualities of the Irish.
Historically, we always spoke about direct democracy, or political figures did, until we had the technology to do it.
And then they stopped talking about it.
Yeah, man.
So you could do direct democracy.
If you had direct democracy, they could ask you right now as a British public, which technology could let us have it.
And we could all say, do you want mass immigration?
And then it's to you, the people.
We don't need 650 line politicians who don't represent you anyway.
Like the Labour Party now, but all the things they're bringing in are not in their manifesto.
They can ask you, do you want to fund the war in Ukraine?
No.
Do you want to take the vaccine?
No.
Mass immigration?
No.
And then you can have your voice.
And then it's direct democracy.
So I agree.
I agree with you, but there's going to come a point in this country now where...
UK, you mean, yeah?
In the UK, where in another 10 or 15 years, if we had direct democracy, we'll all end up living under Sharia because they'll vote.
They'll vote.
They'll use democracy to end democracy.
So we've got a time period here.
I just wrote in my most recent book saying that we need direct democracy and we need it now.
And if the demographic continues, we lose our cultural identity, which again cannot be allowed to happen in England.
It can't.
It's a Christian nation.
It cannot be allowed to happen.
So whatever we have to do to prevent that, and I don't see us preventing it without chaos.
Anyone that's come to our country is a guest of our country.
My mother come to our country as a guest of our country.
Irish.
Yeah, my mum come from Ireland.
But all my mates, but they love the country.
There's no way this man's written a book.
Like, he may have yelled at someone nearby who was writing a book that has come out in Tommy Robinson's name.
I don't think this man's written a book.
And also, yeah, in case anyone wasn't aware, Tommy Robinson is himself the child of a migrant.
But according to him, when you're a white Christian migrant, that's fine.
And yet he insists he's not racist.
I am also fascinated by this timeline of his where apparently in 10 to 15 years, if we have their conception of direct democracy, well, the UK will end up under Sharia law.
It's a fascinating idea because again, right, under the 2021 census, 46.2% of the UK are Christian, 37.2% cite having no religion, 5.99% nothing stated, and the Muslim population came in at 6.5%.
So I don't know what he thinks is going to happen, but somehow within the next decade, that 6.5% has got to get to more than 50%.
And they all then have to also want a dismantling of the UK legal system in favor of Sharia law, which is a pretty monumental suggestion.
I've met quite a few Muslims in my time.
Not a single one of them has wanted that.
Obviously, for anyone with a pair of brain cells to rub together, this is fear-mongering bullshit designed to make his audience scared enough to give him more money for quote-unquote fighting the good fight.
As for the broader concept of what Russell and Tommy are calling direct democracy, their version of it is juvenile at best, because it's a nice idea, right?
Hundreds of miniature referendums to the British public.
But there are very basic problems with the concept at the heart of why something like this hasn't been implemented.
And firstly, you have the utility aspect, right?
Let's assume this will be an app on a phone or a website, most likely.
You need to make sure, from a legal standpoint, that every single citizen in the UK has access to that website.
You then need to make sure that website or app is completely secure from any sort of interference, either from, say, Russian cyber attacks or specific groups with an axe to grind.
Bear in mind in the UK, all of our voting is still done by pen and paper, either in a voting booth or by post.
We don't even trust voting machines over here yet.
And from there, well, who decides what issues of law and policy should be brought in front of the public?
Where is that line drawn and how?
Because that directly affects the next problem, which is that there is a basic need for the public to be well informed on whatever it is they're expected to be voting on.
Tommy Robinson's list there includes vaccines and Ukraine.
And that is a prime example of why we might not want to leave it up to the British public when a bunch of assholes make their money spreading misinformation about that subject, right?
And if anyone needs a clear example of why this is a terrible idea, the Brexit vote was roughly 10 years ago, and that has done nigh irreparable damage to the fabric of this country.
Not just the economy, the fabric of this country.
That was our last big referendum, and we fucked it up on a scale that has kept us in a cost of living crisis pretty much ever since.
And we as a country have a habit of voting against our own interests.
We allowed 14 years of Tory rule split across four general elections.
We collectively decided four times in a row that yes, we want the bastards who will take all our money away and give it to rich people.
Yes, we want our public services gutted.
Yes, we want the NHS privatized.
And of course, yes, we don't like those bloody foreigners or poor people.
I cannot imagine, I cannot fathom the scale of harm that could be done by allowing the British public to vote on literally everything.
Entire industries could be rent asunder overnight thanks to Dave from Newcastle's thoughtful vote about farming subsidies.
Christ, I'm from the land of farmers, surrounded by farms.
grew up with farmers and I wouldn't trust myself to be informed enough to vote on anything to do with agriculture, let alone the swath of subject MPs have to vote on week by week.
Of course, the cynic in me wonders if both Tommy Robinson and Russell know all this, that they know it's unworkable, that there would be a much greater constant emphasis on propaganda and rhetoric.
Hence the urgency.
It's not, oh, if we don't do it now in 10 years, we'll all be under Sharia law.
It's, hey, I want to get this in as soon as possible because it's going to get me a fuckload of money and power, right?
And I want to get in for as long as I can.
Oh, gross.
Anyway, from here, Russell continues to ask uncharacteristically good questions.
Sadiq Khan and Sharia Fears00:11:58
But how do you reconcile, for example, say, I'm making a lot of assumptions here, but like if your mum's Irish, I wonder what her idea, her attitude, and is she a Catholic lady?
My mum's Catholic.
So what's her feeling about British imperialism?
My mum's brought me up.
My mum's brought me up to love Britain.
Say my cousin Kev, his dad sat him down with the Irish flag and the English flag.
This is my flag.
You're from this nation.
This is your flag.
You're bought up here.
You've grown up here.
You're educated here.
This is your country.
So that was Kev's, okay?
So all of her, all of my, my mum's one of eight children.
All of the sons, all of some of the brothers, some of her brothers were born in England.
They're all patriotic English.
Amazing.
And I always say, but I said when the Polish come to Luton, I remember saying, they're just going to be the new Irish.
So when they have kids and kids, they're of kids, they're going to be proud of their Polish heritage, but they're going to support the country.
Now, yeah, they're going to love England.
They're going to be born in the country.
They're going to adapt to it.
They're going to culturally be the same as it.
So those sort of successful assimilations.
And where the Irish aren't wanting to blow shit up, still going on about historic grievances with Britain.
Well, they were with the IRA, but the Irish in England, the Irish that are bought there, the Irish love the country.
They've integrated and assimilated.
They're not still.
Well, they'd have Irish pubs or whatever.
Yeah, that's where we all go.
Yeah, I'm not sure you can be speaking on behalf of the Irish at large here, Tommy.
And I wouldn't be surprised if we see Irish reunification within my lifetime.
Here's hoping.
And if you want to get a good sense of the feelings of the Irish, you need look no further than the Six Nations rugby tournament that finished here this last week.
Every single year, the Welsh, Irish and Scottish will support literally any team that isn't England.
Like if they're up against England, yeah, whoever might beat them, we will support them.
And that's not without reason.
Only hilariously, for the last match, the entire country of Ireland was put in the awkward position of supporting England because had England beaten France, who they were playing, Ireland would have won the tournament on the whole.
As it is, England snatched defeat from the jaws of victory in the last minute of the game and the Irish have resumed their various justified grievances towards the English.
However eager Tommy Robinson might be to sweep it all under the carpet, the fangs of colonialism leave a lasting mark.
And yeah, Tommy apparently didn't mind the influx of Polish people coming over here from the mid-2000s onwards because they were Christian and white.
Therefore, it's fine, apparently.
He does swear he's not racist.
In trying to move forward, Russell rattles off some great replacement theory talking points before he hits a bit of a brick wall in interviewing Tommy.
So we're allowed to like there's because I'm actually, these are not questions where I'm trying to trip you up.
I'm actually trying to work out a way to move forward, right?
See, like Irish, it's good that there's some Irish culture in Britain and that Irish culture comes from Irish people successfully assimilating.
I do think that we're being fucked up by migration.
I do think that.
I do think they're trying to destabilize domestic populations.
I don't think you're wrong about that.
The thing that I'm concerned about more than you, it seems, for who knows what reason, and who knows which one of us is right.
Maybe neither of us is right, and we've got to work out our work together.
Is how do we find a version of the Irish pub that's with the already uh embedded Muslim population?
Well, they'll close down the pub, won't they?
You won't have it, they'll demand anything adapts to them, not they adapt to it.
That's not happening in us in a situation where you have direct democracy.
In a situation where you have direct democracy, I recognize what you're saying.
If there was a sort of a tipping point where the majority population was with Islam, you could bring in Sharia law.
I recognize that you're saying that we're fucked.
Uh, yeah, so Tommy, how can we move forward with the Muslim population?
We can't, okay, but but how do we speak to them?
We can't, it's all Sharia.
Okay, but other cultures have successfully assimilated into the UK.
Why can't Muslim people they don't drink?
It's not British done.
See, Tommy Robinson is to Muslims what the NRA is to gun regulation.
Their answer doesn't need to be nuanced, the answer is simply no.
And they are willing to bend themselves in some extraordinary knots to ensure that answer stays no.
Why?
Because it's incredibly effective, very easy to remember, and that is very appealing to a supporter base that doesn't like having to remember things or having to confront reality in any way.
Next up, we get more of a sense of how Russell views himself these days.
The real problem ain't me or Joe Rogan or Charlie Kirk or you or anyone.
The real problem is this: the technology exists now for instantaneous communication.
The technology exists now for real direct democracy.
If people start waking up, they're in serious, serious trouble.
Look at even something like Rupert Lowe and that Reese Store.
Bang, 60,000 people overnight.
You know, because Elon Musk reposts your content, you're still alive.
If Elon Musk ain't doing that, you're fucking finished.
Like, you know, we are pioneers in a new world.
We disagree about loads of things.
And the thing that I want is I want to find a way for people of different persuasions that are anti-establishment to say, we will, this is what we want.
We want the only unite everyone against the establishment.
Yeah.
Yes, I want that.
How do you night?
Yeah, I'll get.
I remember our last discussion, but my point was how do you night with people who want to change the face of Britain forever or they want to implement Sharia?
You've got to negotiate.
That's unacceptable.
I mean, that's unacceptable because it's bummed by, well, direct democracy.
Like, you know, could this put, you know, you put, if it's, say, if it was London-wide only.
Yeah, it can't be London wide only because then London becomes controlled by Islam.
Do you think if London isn't it?
Do you got mayor?
Do you mean Khan?
Is that how that works?
Like, if London got a Buddhist mayor tomorrow, will London have become controlled by Buddhism?
Because honestly, that sounds kind of pleasant.
I'm kind of into giving that a go if that is how that works.
Sadly, I don't think that's how that works.
But for the record, London's Muslim population accounts for just shy of 15% of Londoners, with Christians coming in at 40.6% and no religion at 27%.
I'm just not getting Muslim controlled from those statistics, nor do I get that feeling from having lived there while Sadiq Khan's been in office.
I voted for Sadiq Khan, as a matter of fact.
And no one is taking over parts of London, nor is anyone trying to implement Sharia law in the UK.
At least, no one with any sort of influence over here, anyway.
Like, you might get the odd extremist, but as Tommy has demonstrated, those exist in all areas of belief, right?
Just because Tommy Robinson's a cunt doesn't mean all white Christians are, you know.
Anyway, Russell is, let me check my notes here.
Right, yes, he's a protector of women and a pioneer in a new world.
We are learning a lot today.
He's a protector of women and a pioneer in a new world.
Speaking of learning things, Tommy has some more to say about Sadiq Khan, and pretty much all of it's new information to me.
Do you think Sadiq Khan's fact that Sadiq Khan is a Muslim is the most like a very significant aspect of him and his political business?
100%.
I don't think he says it.
No, even Shabana Mahmoud says it.
The most important thing to her is Islam.
Now, that wouldn't be a problem.
Who's that?
Shaban Mahmoud, the one who's going to be his home secretary.
Now, if you say the most important thing is Islam, what is Islam?
Then we understand what are the structures, what are the belief systems of Islam.
What does it believe in democracy?
No.
Does it believe in free speech?
No.
So the most important thing to her is something that doesn't believe in democracy, doesn't believe in free speech, doesn't believe in the same values that we believe in.
So that's for me, it's a problem.
It's a big problem.
And I think that the more influence Islam has, the less freedom we have.
So it's totally alien.
It's totally different to someone who you've just said.
I don't see you saying that your most important thing to you is Christianity.
I don't see that as a problem because it's a value system that built the nation.
It's what built us.
It's not going to make the country change.
If we put the most important thing in this country as the Bible, it's going to be the great country it was.
That's why everyone come here.
If we put the most important thing as the Quran, we're fucked.
We become the shithole that they've all lived, flipped from.
We become the shithole with zero values, zero, zero, zero freedoms.
That's what it's going to bring.
So that's why I see it as a problem.
So much to unpack there.
So he's not racist, but every country that has Islam as its main religion is a shithole with zero values and zero freedoms, apparently.
Of course, Tommy was recently seen in Dubai having a lovely time.
And he's also strangely positive about the United Arab Emirates on the whole.
Something there doesn't seem to quite add up, does it?
You know, a lot of people are wondering if there might be some money getting funneled to dear old Tommy 10 names.
Yeah, just some crushing problems.
Because also like, okay, okay.
Say it's the Christianity and that's why everyone likes coming to the UK.
Say that was the cause of it and not the colonialism or the capitalism or any of the other terrible reasons that the UK has as much power as it does now.
Say it's just the Christianity.
If that's the case, why isn't everyone in like Italy, right?
You know, around the Vatican, somewhere around there, because that's where the whole Catholicism thing is.
So why isn't every Christian there?
If that's why everyone moves to a place, you know, it just, it doesn't add up.
Also, as a non-religious person, I can't help but seeing the arguing between the Abrahamic religions as just really fucking dumb.
Like Tommy Robinson was whining about values just now.
And I'm like, man, the Bible and the Quran have a lot of the same shit in there when it comes to values.
Like some names are different, stories are different.
When we actually come down to like the core of the books, the core messaging, including the problematic beliefs, by the way, they line up pretty damn well.
Like they both have some horrendous shit in them and they both have much nicer parts of them too.
And on a personal level, I will say, Muslims have typically been a lot nicer to me than Christians have.
So take from that what you will.
Ah, dear.
And I know I have Christian listeners to this show and you've all been nice to me.
So hey, I am not tarring you with the same brush as this violent thumb.
Also, the balls of Tommy Robinson to say Sadiq Khan doesn't believe in freedom of speech.
Like, firstly, we have freedom of expression over here, not freedom of speech.
It's a technicality, but one that matters from a legal perspective.
But secondly, each time Tommy's gone and planned one of his marches, you know, of football thugs, they've been in London while Sadiq Khan's been in power.
Like Sadiq Khan could have said, nah, fuck off, mate, do that in another city.
But as usual, you know, it's just letting it all happen, letting free speech happen.
And, you know, some folks on the left will go out of their way to be tolerant, even of white nationalists and Nazis.
I personally draw the line there, but, you know, everyone's different.
Thankfully, for the last portion of the show here, we're going to change subjects, but it is very much out of the frying pan and into the fire as Russell discusses the allegations and criminal charges against him.
And he's going to begin by asserting that it's a conspiracy and that someone's gone to a lot of effort to put him in that position.
I mean, it's quite a lot of effort they've gone to.
Whoever's behind this has gone to quite a lot of effort.
Like, so the stuff to do with the trial, that they've dealt with in a little bit.
Disturbing Views on Women00:02:30
So you receive a letter, you're at home, are you with your wife?
I was doing the BJJ, as a matter of fact.
And like, I've never come out of like, but like, I got the letter, I read through it, it's got like the serious allegations, and I was just like, okay, well, this is going to be intense.
And from that moment on, really, you're, you're in it.
Tell me, tell me, tell me from that moment on, because you can say it's going to be intense.
Like, to most, that's going to drop most people.
You've got to call lawyers.
Is he going to get scared?
You've got to work it out.
How scared was you?
Was you scared?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I was pretty scared.
How'd you go home and tell the wife that I just like went, yeah, Lord, look at this and just went through it.
So I goes, this is serious.
This is what we're going to have to do.
I'm going to talk to this person.
I'm going to talk to that person.
She's been brilliant.
My wife, I've been with my wife a long time.
Even though I only married, me and my wife only got married 10 years ago.
I've known her since I was 30 and she was like 18 or 19.
So she knew me then.
She knows me.
She knows what I'm like and what I'm not like.
She knows what I am.
She put up with me, took me back again after 10 years of marrying celebrities and putting it about.
She knows that I'm not a sex offender.
She knows that what I am is a womanizer.
I said, we have a word for that.
Womanizer, player, hustler, all them kind of things that I was doing.
It ain't good, but it ain't rape.
Player, hustler, womanizer.
Like, we all know that Russell's full of it, especially when it comes to this subject.
And willful ignorance is the thing that has served him best his entire life.
But I do always find it staggering that he gives himself these labels and says, oh, yes, I was exploitative of women.
Yes, I was addicted to sex.
All these other things.
And yet he can't seem to understand that across the what appears to be thousands, certainly more than a thousand of women that he has had intercourse with, because of the casualness with which he would treat sex and the callousness with which he would treat women, it is far, far more likely that he could have had sexual relations with someone without their consent and potentially not even realized it because he just never gave a shit about listening to them.
And based on the Times reporting about him, there are alleged to also be plenty of times when he did realize a lack of consent and carried on anyway.
But in the back of my head, like whenever I hear him say this stuff about being a womanizer, I'm like, man, there is no way to treat sex and women the way you did with the mindset you had for that long in the sheer quantities you did and come out of that situation without having violated someone's consent.
Losing the Sense of Right00:10:43
Like it's just not possible.
Honestly, like reading through his book, reading through my bookie work and reading his perspective towards women in 2007, when he alleges to have like gotten better by that point, it's fucking disturbing to listen to how he still thought of women at that time.
Also, I always forget about the age gap between Russell and his wife.
Like meeting at 18 and 30 and then like later getting married, like, you know, kind of going apart and then coming back.
I don't know.
Like he does have a history of like alleged grooming.
And I don't know, just foundationally, it gives me the ick.
So you may have noticed in that last clip that Tommy is, he's digging around for something in these answers from Russell.
Like he's really quite focused on asking some personal questions.
And that does continue after a little bit of preaching from Russell.
The sin is the state of mind that you're in, that you are fallen, that you are not in God.
When you are not in God, you may wank off a man in a toilet.
You may take money for something you shouldn't take money from.
You may sleep around.
You will sin when you are in that state of mind.
The only way for us to avoid that state of mind is to accept Christ.
So the second voice in our head, we all have that voice in our head telling us we're not good enough or telling us you deserve that or you should do this.
And why don't them people fuck off?
That voice.
You can replace the second voice with Christ.
He's ready.
He's ready to come.
He's there at the edge of your being.
This Christ, the point of this book, the Bible, is a transcendent psychedelic figure.
It's not just like, would you mind being polite and nice?
No, it's glory.
It's power.
It's bigger than the self.
It's bigger than a nation.
You can't have concepts like truth or justice or kindness or service without God.
And God, for me, as a Christian, is Jesus Christ.
He came to earth as a man, lived as a man, died as a man, took our sin on him, yours and mine, died for us, was reborn that we may be reborn.
All these things that before, I'm just like, what, what, what?
It kind of broke through into me in a way that doesn't make sense.
And see, this is where I am now.
I don't care if people, what people think anymore.
I don't care.
Really?
Yeah, really?
If you check your name out now and you read some of the discussions.
I don't.
Well, here's how you know.
I don't check my name out now.
That's how little I care.
Is that how you literally care or is that your way around it?
And that is exactly my question.
This sounds much less like not caring and much more like avoidance by plunging my head in the sand.
Historically, Russell is a trend hound who is reported to repeatedly Google his own name.
But I imagine that's become a much less fun thing to do over the last few years.
He is also relatively conflict avoidant in his nature and relishes ignorance wherever he can get it.
So this doesn't surprise me from him.
What did surprise me was that Russell is clearly uncomfortable with this line of conversation, but Tommy just keeps on digging for details, details which Russell doesn't usually discuss.
And so we're going to get Russell's response in just a second, but I want to make note of something first.
For the eagle-eared, when chatting with Tommy Robinson, Russell's accent has gotten thicker and more cockney, right?
It was worse in the first conversation, but it's present here too.
And it's because not only, like, he as a person desperately craves the approval of masculine men, basically.
And so when they're around, he himself acts in a much more masculine fashion than he otherwise would.
There is a mask mask on, if you were.
And it's about to come off for a very specific reason in a sharp pivot at the end here.
Because you must get.
You must.
No, you don't have to.
So lots of people are saying, this is trial by, trial by public.
Yeah.
Public opinion.
Lots of people are already calling you a rapist.
You haven't been convicted.
So you've had no trial.
That's right.
We don't know the evidence.
We don't know what's going to happen.
No one knows.
But when you read online, you've already been tried.
That's right.
If you so.
But I've also...
That doesn't hurt you?
It doesn't...
Look, if I had preferences...
You haven't had Dark Nights sitting at home fucking...
Really?
No, darling.
I'm not collapsing all of these ideas.
I'm not saying that I haven't had dark nights and all of those things.
What I'm saying is, is that, yes, I may have been tried by media, but I have also been tried in the highest court there is, the court of Christ, and found innocent.
Would you have gone through this without that?
There is no point in anything without that.
Would you have, do you think, where would you be without finding Christ?
Well, I don't know, maybe suicide.
But like, maybe, I don't know.
Who knows?
Yeah, if he does end up in prison, the prospects don't look good.
I can virtually count the number of times I've heard Russell call someone darling on one hand.
It's reserved exclusively for women and men that he wishes to talk down to.
Basically anyone Russell views as being lesser.
And if you don't believe me, just try and imagine any context outside of a romantic relationship where it's acceptable to call Tommy Robinson darling.
That was a pointed and deliberate little jab in a, no, darling, you're just not getting it, you silly twat kind of way.
Because Russell Russell is very evidently a little bit flustered at this line of questioning that he can't quite seem to extract himself from.
And if nothing else, I can tell that Tommy Robinson does not like being called darling by a six foot two flopsy haired spectre of a long dead yoga instructor.
And so he keeps digging.
Take note of the pause here after Russell stops speaking.
I'm losing the feeling that I know what's right.
I'm losing the certainty.
But instead, I have gained this connection to this feeling that you will be used.
He'll use you how he wants to.
And if he doesn't want to use you, that's fine.
Because everyone's going to die anyway.
I'm going to die.
You're going to die.
Our kids are all going to die anyway.
So if we're not living in truth, we're wasting our time.
We have to get to God now.
Otherwise, everything we do afterwards will be meaningless again.
There's no point in me getting all amped up and being like trying to get into politics, but really deep down, I'm trying to make myself feel better.
No way.
Never again.
I belong to him now.
How long are you looking at?
I don't know, mate.
What was the lawyer said to you?
How many allegations are there?
I don't know all of the details, but it's pretty serious.
How many women?
I don't know, but that's publicly available.
Okay.
Seven, I think, or six, seven different women making rape allegations.
I think there are three of those allegations.
But, you know, look, around this stuff, I don't like, there's no way I can look good talking about this stuff.
All I can say is I've never raped anyone.
I've never sexually assaulted anyone.
And there will be a trial.
And either that trial will show that I'm telling the truth or it won't, you know.
Okay.
Okay.
It occurs to me that this is a rare moment where Tommy Robinson can relish having some sort of moral high ground over someone.
Like, there aren't that many people below Tommy Robinson on the ladder of morality, but it does seem like Russell is just about one of them.
And boy, howdy is Tommy making sure he knows it.
Honestly, I think they're pretty even in being terrible, just for different reasons.
But only one of them has a looming court date at the moment.
Though give it time, I'm sure Tommy will be back in court soon.
Also, yeah, talk about keeping your head in the sand.
If you're going to be on trial for sexual assault and rape charges, I would think like the bare minimum would be to keep track of how many there are and what it is they're alleging.
Just at a minimum.
Christ.
All right, we're on the last clip here, right as Tommy Robinson gets his final digs in, and Russell realizes, oh, hey, I can just leave.
And you're one of the few people I can sit across from who knows what it's like to be lied about, who knows what it's like to be broken, who knows what it's like to you know inside who you are.
And you know it ain't perfect, but you know that you're trying your best.
You know you've hurt people.
It must be a scary time.
Well, it's not must be a scary time.
It must be a fucking terrifying time.
Because regardless of.
In a way, it's the best thing that's ever happened in my life.
It's the best thing that's ever happened in my life.
Yeah.
Okay.
What about you down in that cell?
You come out there looking like David Bellamy, all crucifixed up, like a man out of a hedge.
No, I was terrified.
Again, my build-up to that, I was in the darkest place, scared to hell.
Scared to hell.
Prison for me could be death.
You must be worried.
Prison for you is not going to be good.
Are you aware of that?
Me, I don't.
Because these are all things I worry about.
I know we're at the time.
Yeah, we should wrap up because also we've got it now, we've got fucking 100 minutes.
100 minutes.
Over 100 minutes.
Russell.
But of course, I don't want to go to jail, but it's God's will.
I'll go where God wants me.
If God wants me in jail, I'll go there when you're soon.
Do you know when German trial happens?
I think it's either June, I think it's this year.
Yeah.
Oh, wow.
It's soon.
Oh, wow.
That's soon.
Imagine sitting across from someone who's about to face a criminal trial.
Someone you've been friendly with up until about five minutes ago and saying, prison, it's not going to be good.
You're aware of that?
Do you worry about that?
And then being like, oh, wow, that trial is real soon, huh?
Like, Christ.
Do you want to try calling me darling again?
And we'll see how it goes.
Oh, I am loath to give Tommy Robinson credit for basically anything, but I enjoyed that.
And it's not even that mean-spirited.
It's this thing.
It's just someone recounting the facts of the situation to Russell's face and asking questions.
And then you could cut the tension in that room with a knife.
Oh, delightful.
Fuck both of these people.
I hope they end up in prison.
Good lord.
Anyway, that's the show, everybody.
That's hopefully as much Tommy Robinson as we're going to have to deal with for a while.
If you want to support me, head to patreon.com/slash on brand and becoming an awakening wonder.
I will be back real soon, but in the meantime, take care of yourselves and each other.
Thank you very much.
I love you.
Bye.
All right.
I'm going to finish now because I'm hungry and I want to eat something.