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Dec. 20, 2024 - On Brand

02:48:17

OB #90 - Aaron Siri: Malicious Liar or Malicious Moron?

Meet Aaron Siri, the man who will likely be influencing US vaccine policy over the next four years as RFK Jr's right hand man: Russell invited him onto Stay Free to discuss vaccine injuries and autism. Support us on Patreon! Buy a magnet handmade by Lauren B!

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	This is Propaganda Live.
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	Extraordinary cultural moment.
	Already iconic.
	Already iconic.
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	Where did this guy come from?
	It's like he's been doing it for ages.
	He's very confident.
	Plainly, and this is a matter now of fact and record, I'm right wing.
	I feel that Christ may have had a better vision.
	Is this misinformation or is Vivek Ramaswamy in the lavatory?
	That's a sort of like a poet.
	Is this Eminem?
	Man, if we didn't come together in that stream, I'd say it was just the key.
	Now, these are the kind of conversations, I think, that the legacy media can no longer compete with.
	Win, win, win, win, win, win, win.
	This is On Brand, a podcast where we discuss the ideas and antics of one, Russell Brand.
	I'm Alworth, and each week I go through an episode of Brand's show with my co-host Lauren B! That's me!
	I'm Lauren B! I'm the one that's tied to the back of this truck and ready to get dragged into whatever I don't know is happening this week.
	But it's usually bad.
	Which is why I use the truck metaphor.
	Almost invariably bad, yeah.
	Which is why we do the good thing before the bad thing.
	And Lauren, what is your good thing before the bad thing this week?
	I have two, because one is probably boring at this point to hear, because this is still my tired, overworked, but doing great elf time.
	And so, you know, I feel like I'm not complaining, and I want to make that very clear.
	I'm explaining my material condition, and it's dope because, like, it's better than being not busy.
	Right, yeah, yeah.
	Yeah, and so going to, like, my consignment spot a couple days ago to, like, restock...
	And my whole, like, you know, I got, like, a little piece of the wall, and it looked like a carcass that had just been attacked by hyenas.
	There was just nothing left.
	It was just, you know, like, nails sticking out of the wall, and just kind of, like, holy shit!
	Tight!
	Like, this is, it's really exciting, and cool, and good, so...
	The hyena attack, you know, the carcass that's just bones was, like, so cool, and I know I'm gonna walk into that again tomorrow before I go restock, and it's just dope, and I'm thankful.
	The relatable thing is I just finished, and also, like, Wreck for everybody.
	I just finished Maria Bamford's book, Sure I'll Join Your Cult.
	It's so good.
	It's so good.
	And I picked it out and I was like, yeah, I'm going to give my time to this because of Jordan from Knowledge Fight.
	He talks about Maria Bamford in a way that's like no one else is funny.
	And I don't disagree.
	Because of his insistence, I'm like, I'll take that seriously.
	Because whenever we recorded together, he recommended this documentary.
	That was awesome and really helpful.
	So I'm like, okay, two for two.
	Jordan's two for two on the racks for me.
	And it's so, so good.
	And it's all about her...
	It's so...
	She talks about all the medication she's been on.
	She talks about checking herself in for inpatient treatment with her mental health journeys.
	She does everything but talk about exactly what she got paid for the book in the book, which is fucking brilliant.
	She's so transparent.
	And up front about everything.
	And it's just...
	It's...
	Oh, it's so reproaching.
	It's wonderful to hear someone...
	That, like, I love, like, you know, vibes and platitudes and, like, quotes on a wall are great, but, like, nuts and bolts of what it means to be a creative person, or even just, like, to be a sick person, all those things.
	It's not, you know, like, we didn't get that...
	For a long time in media, right?
	And in culture.
	Authenticity, I think, you know?
	Well, beyond, like, you can be authentically having a feeling and telling a story, but like, she's expressing that same idea, like, we should all be talking about what each other's getting paid at work.
	That's a very specific – and she talks about how being in a union impacts not just her politics but how she approaches her daily life in a way where she explains how much money she gives to charity through her – These are like dollars and cents is what I'm saying.
	Nice.
	So it's like...
	Real transparent.
	Yeah, exactly.
	Like, yeah, what I just said.
	It's like the transparency is really...
	It's great.
	It's so cool.
	And I'm just...
	It's nice to see other people doing that.
	That's rad.
	And yeah, that's...
	Oh, and one of the consignment shops was on the news.
	Oh, my God.
	Right.
	Shit.
	Yeah.
	So, bless them.
	I had some shrines on the local WGN Chicago news.
	Oh, that's nice.
	And it was just a fun little joke.
	You know, they told me a month ago, like, we're going to be on the news.
	Like, what?
	Okay, that's fun.
	So, yeah, Wolf Bait was on the news.
	That's the other thing.
	That's a triple good thing.
	Yeah!
	Hi, I haven't gotten to talk to many people for a couple weeks.
	I made it quick.
	So what's your good thing?
	Well, we've got some things to talk about today.
	I can assure you that.
	Okay.
	But yeah, that book is going on my list.
	That sounds interesting.
	It's great.
	My good thing is, so it was my birthday last week, which is usually a good time, generally speaking.
	I had a moment of realization, particularly around the gifts that I received, that I was very lucky to receive.
	I was thrilled about every single one of these, right?
	So I got a pair of slippers, which I'm currently wearing.
	I got a retractable umbrella.
	I got some cigars.
	I got some scotch.
	And I got a black and white Orson Welles film from 1949. Which film?
	The Third Man.
	Oh, sorry.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	That's great.
	Right!
	Great!
	I was so thrilled, and I kind of, I came to the realization that this could have easily been a birthday somewhere in my mid-60s, and I'm like, I'm only ever going to be leaning into these things.
	I'm like, oh, I am so happy with all of this.
	Exactly.
	Like, this is great.
	I was so thrilled, and it was a wonderful time, and I'm very, very lucky.
	That's rad!
	Yeah, yeah.
	Nice.
	Simple, but good.
	Yeah.
	Anyway, we have got a show to do, but first let's thank a couple of new patrons.
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	Now, it's been a minute, and Russell has been on his usual bullshit the last couple of weeks, most of which we're not going to be dealing with today because there's something else that requires our attention.
	But in case anyone was wondering, when it comes to the UnitedHealthcare CEO getting killed, Russell more or less came down on the side of, I don't advocate for violence, but the whole system is corrupt.
	However, he mostly just used the story as a vehicle to attack Nancy Pelosi for owning stocks.
	That's pretty much the way he went with it.
	That checks out completely.
	It does, entirely.
	I'd hazard to say, good job with all the qualifiers of Russell.
	Like, hey, alright.
	Alright, take what I can get.
	Taking into account all the other stuff that's not good.
	No notes.
	Yeah, exactly.
	And when it comes to the overthrow of the Assad regime in Syria, Russell is towing the same line as Mike Benz and claiming the entire thing is a CIA operation in order for the US to take over Syria.
	That's kind of the main...
	Broad narrative that's happening at the moment.
	Yeah, so that's what's happening there.
	And now to what we're actually dealing with today.
	If you'll recall in our last show proper, there was a moment where we were discussing Rachel Maddow criticizing Jay Bhattacharya, something Russell took personally.
	But her complaints were predominantly about Bhattacharya wanting to allow COVID-19 to just straight up kill a bunch of people.
	And also about another of RFK Jr.'s picks making the claim that vaccines cause autism.
	So Russell pivoted and played a different video of Rachel Maddow saying something she probably shouldn't have in order to attack her instead of having to then defend the deaths of the elderly without having to go full Wakefield and claim that vaccines cause autism.
	However, on the day we recorded that episode, Russell said this.
	When I have conversations, as I do, you'll see this show tomorrow with Aaron Seary about something that's considered very, very controversial.
	This is something that's so controversial you're not meant to say it, that there is potentially a link between vaccines and autism.
	Whenever you say that, what you'll hear in response is, there's no evidence that vaccines cause autism.
	Now, what I learned from my conversation with Aaron Seary yesterday is there's no evidence That vaccines don't cause autism.
	And this is what's most terrifying about that, is that the reason that there is no evidence that vaccines don't cause autism, or do cause autism, is because only the clinical trials that are beneficial are being funded.
	No one is funding clinical trials to demonstrate causal links between autism and vaccines because that would be a very unprofitable piece of science indeed.
	Oh, so he doesn't know how experiments work.
	Yeah, that's part of it.
	You have a...
	I mean, yeah.
	Experiments get fucked up and stats get fucked up and there's biases all the time.
	But fundamentally, you do an experiment with a hypothesis to direct your experiment and then the results of the experiment...
	Happen as a result of the experiment, and then you measure those.
	Like, that's...
	Yeah, yeah.
	Russell is about to go full Wakefield, everybody, and he's going to land on the side of vaccines causing autism.
	Now, for the record, vaccines still do not cause autism.
	There is no evidence to substantiate that claim.
	We covered how utterly full of shit Andrew Wakefield's claims were back in our Rescue the Republic coverage, but I do want to be clear about a difference in the claim that's being made throughout this episode, which Russell just highlighted.
	The idea is that, well, okay, there's no evidence to prove that vaccines cause autism, but there's no evidence to prove vaccines don't cause autism, and it would be going against profits for anyone to fund a study looking into a link between vaccines and autism, presumably because the answer must be that vaccines cause autism and therefore sales would slow down or stop altogether, and so no one is doing any studies on the issue, right?
	How much of a blatant lie this might be, we'll get to in a little bit.
	But first, I do want to point out the sheer stupidity of the argument.
	As I'm Welsh and we have one on our flag, I'm going to make this same argument Russell is making, but for the existence of dragons.
	Now, sure, there's no evidence to prove that dragons exist.
	But there's no evidence to prove that dragons don't exist.
	And crucially, no one is funding expeditions to find dragons or is funding studies into dragons because it's not profitable to do so.
	And if everyone thinks that there are dragons in Wales, nobody would want to come here for fear of being eaten.
	So the Welsh Tourist Board have reasons to be firmly against studying this or leading explorations into dragons.
	I feel like the Welsh Tourist Board could spin it, to be fair.
	Probably.
	That could go one of two ways.
	Right.
	But as long as no one's looking into it, the Welsh government and big tourism can keep saying dragons don't exist and keep raking in that sweet, sweet Welsh tourism money when we all know here be dragons, right?
	Like, this is the basic logic that's being used.
	That's really funny that, like...
	Maybe that's an idea.
	I don't know.
	Yeah, well, yeah, there is the flip side.
	Yeah, well, I think it needs to be said up top, kind of like, as a simple, if you need to make this, if you need to take this into the world and explain it, correlation does not equal causation with autism, right?
	Absolutely.
	You get a bunch of vaccines when you're a baby.
	And then as you get a little bit older, you know, like as this baby turns into a little tiny person, the traits start showing up that might indicate some kind of neurodivergence, which we are finding out how motherfucking common.
	Like there isn't a cause at all.
	Maybe it's just a way that brains are put together and it's not a disease to be caused or cured.
	And so that like just because it happens at the same time doesn't mean that one causes the other.
	So correlation of this happening at the same time does not equal causation, one causing the other thing to happen.
	So...
	Just cut and dry.
	If you find yourself in this position, that you have to talk about it, and I get that it's frustrating.
	Take a breath.
	Know that information is a privilege that you get to enjoy, and I hope this helps, because this is not going away!
	No!
	I'm so sick of talking about it!
	I'm so sick of talking about Andrew motherfucking Wakefield!
	Well, I want to say, thankfully, we're not going to be talking about Wakefield very much today.
	The thing he did!
	It's crazy!
	It's nuts!
	I've remembered it since it happened and started hitting, like, weird brochures you get at health food stores.
	Too much of my life!
	I'm resentful.
	Independent of the problem.
	Just keep talking about it.
	Rightly so.
	I do not blame you in the slightest.
	So as for the guy that Russell was talking to, Aaron Siri, have you heard of this guy?
	No, I've heard of Siri.
	Not Aaron.
	Yes, sure.
	So Aaron Siri has become relevant quite recently.
	So let's hear Russell's introduction of him and then I'll give a bit of a rundown on the guy.
	Let me introduce today's guest to you.
	Any fans of the film, Erin Brockovich, will know that not all lawyers are fundamentally and by their nature evil.
	Once in a while, the universe will throw out a lawyer for righteousness and for justice.
	We don't know how these people are created.
	These people who, like Saul, become Paul, who have the scales fall from their eyes and become prophets of truth and justice.
	Aaron Siri is one such man, managing partner at Siri and Glimstad, LLP, specialising in complex civil litigation, most notably fighting against Supreme, all the way to the Supreme Court against mandates, ensuring that the CDC released data that they were trying to keep secret,
	and also ensuring That sexy babies don't need to be injected with hepatitis B, a disease that they can only catch through coitus and through shared needles, which would seem to be a pretty unnecessary vaccination.
	Except for the most...
	Well, unless those babies are finding their way into the wrong company, I would consider that to be an unnecessary inoculation.
	It's my great privilege to introduce my friend and our guest today, Aaron Siri.
	Thank you so much for joining us today, Aaron.
	It's great to be here, Russ.
	Hmm.
	Um, well...
	Everybody raise your hand if you have hepatitis vaccines because you worked around blood-borne pathogens or food!
	What?!
	So I'm sure, for a start, the apparent anti-vaxerin Brockovich over here must be pleased with that intro.
	I'd be thrilled.
	For the record, from the CDC, Hepatitis B is transmitted when blood, semen, or another bodily fluid from a person infected with HPV enters the body of someone who is not infected.
	This can happen through sexual contact, sharing needles, syringes, or other drug injection equipment, or from mother to baby at birth as well.
	You know, blood in general.
	Hepatitis B is 50 to 100 times more infectious than HIV. So, hey, maybe that vaccine's a good idea, particularly as a lot of people who have hepatitis B can be asymptomatic and not know they have it and might, for instance, pass it to their newborn child without realizing it and things like that.
	You know, there are a lot of reasons.
	Yeah, they just get to find out, like, oh, cool, all my body-cleaning organs are ruined.
	Yeah.
	Dope.
	Oops, all dialysis.
	Like, wow, okay.
	Right.
	Yes.
	It's not dialysis, it's something else, but Jesus Christ.
	Oh my God.
	It's, okay.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Oops, I need a liver.
	Cool.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Dude, hepatitis vaccines are one of those, like, miracles.
	Like, it's a miracle.
	Mm-hmm.
	Yep.
	Like, human beings, like, the fact that you can get vaccinated...
	Oh, yeah.
	Oh, yeah.
	For the hepatitis-es is a miracle.
	It's genuinely incredible.
	And we'll be discussing a lot of miracles today that this guy, Aaron Siri, is about to be attacking.
	So, so, Aaron Siri, right?
	The guy that we'll be covering today is a lawyer.
	He was born in 1977. He's originally from Paradise Valley, Arizona.
	He got a Bachelor's in Accounting from Yeshiva University in 1999, then a Master's in Real Estate from NYU in 2001, and then he got his JD from UC Berkeley School of Law in 2004. So
	that's a fun start to your law career.
	Um...
	Yeah.
	Oh, but he's one of the good ones.
	He's one of those lawyers that really we need more of.
	Aaron Brockovich.
	After that, he was a litigation attorney at Latham& Watkins, dealing with commercial disputes and class actions in New York, before then forming his own legal practice and becoming the managing partner at Siri and Glimstad LLP in 2011. Since then, Siri and Glimstad have gone on to make themselves one of the biggest names in anti-vax lawsuits, first making news for fighting a flu shot mandate in New York in 2015, but really ramping things up in that regard since 2020 specifically.
	In 2021, Aaron Siri began representing the Informed Consent Action Network, or ICANN, which is Del Bigtree's shithead anti-vax organization.
	Oh my god!
	Yeah, he represents them.
	We covered Del Bigtree at Rescue the Republic.
	If anyone wants to go back, specifically his creation of the movie Vaxxed and platforming off Andrew Wakefield.
	ICANN paid Syrian Glimstad $5.3 million in 2022 to litigate cases against vaccines and vaccine requirements.
	Okay, so I know who this guy is.
	I just didn't recognize the name, but yeah.
	Okay, cool!
	You will, and you will know him for another reason in a second.
	Oh, and also, fun little aside, since 2021, Aaron Siri has also been a speaker at events for the Federalist Society, because of course he has.
	Um...
	As for why Aaron's series is particularly relevant now, well, he's good buds with and has represented RFK Jr. during his presidential campaign.
	In fact, they've been working together since 2017. RFK Jr. has obviously been tapped by Trump as the Secretary for Health and Human Services, assuming he gets confirmed.
	And there is speculation that Aaron Siri is in line for a position high up within HHS, likely as general counsel for HHS, the highest legal position in that institution.
	Supporting that theory is the fact that while RFK Jr. is currently interviewing candidates for health administration positions and asking them about their stance on vaccines and basically trying to feel them out like, hey...
	Are you one of us?
	Well, we know that's happening, though.
	Right, yeah.
	It's 100% happening.
	Purity tests and shit.
	Exactly.
	That's exactly what's happening.
	The other person sat in that room next to RFK Jr. is Aaron Seery.
	One way or another, there is every probability that the guy we're about to cover is going to be very influential on vaccine policy and public health in the U.S. over the next four years, at least.
	Which is...
	Great!
	Um...
	Yeah.
	Aaron Siri insists that he is not anti-vax.
	That said, he's asking regulators to withdraw or suspend approval of vaccines for polio and for hepatitis B, as well as petitioning the FDA to pause distribution of 13 other vaccines that cover tetanus, diphtheria, polio, and hepatitis A. But he's not anti-vax.
	RFK Jr. has been quoted as saying, I love Aaron Siri.
	There's nobody who's been a greater asset to the medical freedom movement than him.
	Terrific.
	Okay.
	So that was true.
	Also, listen, I do want to say, like, I was lumping all of the hepatitis C's together.
	Listen, maybe let's hear him out about this hepatitis B vaccine.
	I'm just saying, like...
	Don't at me about the witches and the wares.
	Listen, all I know is I had to get a bunch of shots because I worked around food and also I worked around blood war pathogens as a job for 11 years.
	And those are the nightmares I had when I would think about the dangers of my job was what I was exposed to.
	It's something we had to think about a lot, something we talked about a lot.
	So, also, don't at me.
	I won't see it this week or next week.
	Or you can.
	I won't see it.
	Yeah, exactly.
	Listen, maybe there are arguments.
	You know what?
	Maybe I'm being rash.
	Maybe I'm jumping to conclusions.
	Maybe I've been vaccine injured this whole time.
	Had no idea.
	Yeah, maybe.
	Maybe!
	I mean, I'm sure he could make a convincing argument for you.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
	And all the stories I had to, not had to, chose to hear from like piercers that didn't know MRSA was a thing in the 80s and now they have it and they're living with it for the bit of life they have left or hepatitis, same thing.
	There's like harrowing...
	I don't have harrowing pre- and post-polio vaccine stories.
	I definitely have harrowing in my creative family.
	Harrowing pre- and post-understanding MRSA hepatitis.
	Because the AIDS epidemic happened.
	I do have those stories in my life.
	And it's awful.
	It makes me sick to hear.
	This is...
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Do you know who does have a pre- and post-polio story is Mitch McConnell, who fucking hates this guy.
	And I'm like, wow, I'm agreeing with Mitch McConnell on something.
	That is a rarity.
	No, there's some things when he's like, guys, too much.
	Yeah.
	Too far!
	Too far!
	Ixnay on the anti-vax-ay.
	On the oleopay.
	Let's stop it.
	For, like, the worst possible reasons, right?
	Like, he's just like, no, you guys are pushing it.
	We're not going to get away with all this other crap if you're going to...
	You're blowing up our spot.
	Yeah, that's...
	Yeah.
	It's wrong for so many reasons is why.
	Such a long list of reasons.
	Oh, man.
	Okay.
	All right.
	Oh, let's hear him out.
	Let's hear him out.
	Let's hear him out.
	We'll get to the first question of the interview, which is discussing legal immunity for vaccine manufacturers, right?
	We're starting there.
	Can you help us to understand how unique vaccines are and what happens to a product when it is granted legal indemnity?
	Yeah, the impact of giving vaccines, focusing on vaccines, the impact of giving vaccines Immunity for liability for injuries, meaning the companies that sell them, those participating in injecting them, has an incredible and extraordinary effect.
	I think it creates a market distortion that really puts vaccines in a unique box vis-a-vis any other product out there.
	When you think about products on the market, whether they're planes, cars, drugs, chainsaws, knives, anything out there, how do they become safer?
	Why are they Why does the company care that they're safe?
	Why does the company properly test them before they go to market?
	Why is the company watching safety after market?
	Because at the end of the day, companies have an economic interest to make money.
	That is what their fiduciary duty is to their shareholders.
	When you see class action securities lawsuits, and they're suing the board members, and they're suing the CEO, and they're suing the company, what's it about?
	It's about the fact that the company didn't take appropriate actions to protect their assets, to make appropriate profits.
	They breached fiduciary duties.
	That is what will drive corporations' conduct.
	What?
	When you take away the fundamental manner in which we assure products safety, economic interests of a company, You get a very, very different result.
	And you can see that clearly, for example, with the contrast between how drugs are clinical trials versus vaccines are clinical trials.
	Drug manufacturers, they want to know before their drug goes to market whether that product is safe because if it does and it hurts a million people, well, they're going to end up upside down very quickly on making money on that drug.
	With vaccines, They don't have to worry about it in most parts of the world, actually, and the United States in particular.
	Really?
	Because they can't be sued, for the most part, for injuries caused by vaccines.
	And I'm not just talking about co-vaccines.
	I'm talking about most vaccines, and I can explain to you how that happened, and I can even show you a chart that compares the trials between drugs and vaccines, if you'd like.
	Yes, I would like to see that, yeah.
	Okay, sure.
	Something to look forward to.
	So...
	His argument is that because you can't directly sue vaccine manufacturers for vaccine injury, those manufacturers have no incentive to ensure their products are safe.
	Whereas if you could sue them like you could a chainsaw manufacturer, capitalism would sort them out and the product would be made safe because otherwise they'd get sued and they wouldn't sell any...
	That's not true!
	No, no.
	We learned that from Fight Club, everybody!
	No!
	Right!
	Yes!
	Yeah, exactly.
	The thing is, is companies used to...
	Okay, in Mystery Science Theater, listen, Missy's out there, has our back.
	They've had our back this whole time, because we know from the instructional educational shorts that we don't shake hands with danger.
	That's...
	Like if you make a chainsaw that's dangerous, people won't buy it.
	Like if you make a chainsaw that cuts people's fingers off, they're not going to buy the finger cutting off chainsaw anymore.
	So you want to make a chainsaw that's safe.
	Also, OSHA, Labor Relations Board, unions.
	All will workers' protections.
	That's why!
	He'll come back to the regulation side of it a bit later.
	Well, that's all been stripped away, right?
	And that's what he wants to continue to do, right?
	He wants to strip away more regulation so that, like...
	Because corporations already...
	Like, yeah, this is all like plausible deniability and shirking legal responsibility as far as like corporations get to shield themselves now.
	Complain about that part or don't talk about motherfucking chainsaws.
	This is already obfuscation.
	I'm so annoyed.
	Yes, yes, yes, correct.
	The answer is not unfettered capitalism to make things safer.
	That doesn't seem to be the way to go.
	If it seems dumb on its face, it's because it is.
	We're in heavily fettered capitalism, is the issue, is that all of these protections from companies, they don't have liability in the same way, and we're losing the ability to...
	Even sue them when they do something wrong.
	Like, we're losing those protections as citizens, as individuals, even as, like, whatever, everybody here.
	We're losing those mechanisms that were already shitty to begin with, like, and have been demonized for decades, like, with the hot coffee lawsuit, with McDonald's, like, burning that poor woman.
	Like, this is the results.
	This is where we're at because of just, like...
	Corporate propaganda for decades.
	He'll get to it a bit later, but according to this guy, you don't really need regulation anyways, and I had to worry about it.
	So the thing about vaccines is, first off, they are heavily regulated and heavily tested before they ever come to market.
	But let's say there's a hypothetical situation where a vaccine manufacturer didn't do their due diligence, that they fudged the data or just flat out didn't do the phase one and two clinical trials and somehow managed to slip that past the FDA, right?
	Somehow all that managed to happen and then say that vaccine then caused injuries by the tens of thousands or whatever, right?
	Firstly, the statute itself, which is the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986, states very clearly that if any manufacturer failed to exercise due care in the preparation of a vaccine, they are still liable to be sued in a civil action.
	Secondly, the statute does not make vaccine manufacturers immune from criminal prosecution.
	If a vaccine manufacturer lied to the federal government and caused injuries in the tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands by doing so, you know who's going to be more than a little bit pissed off about that?
	The federal government.
	like because they're the ones who will have to pay according to that statute because like the other side of this piece of the legislation is that it created the national vaccine injury compensation program which was created to provide a federal no-fault system for compensating vaccine-related injuries or death by establishing a claim procedure involving the united states court of federal claims and special masters meaning the government compensates those who are injured by vaccines provided it's provable um
	so if this situation happened it would be the government that would be paying out and they would definitely send those fucking people to prison for criminal Well, they wouldn't definitely send anybody to prison because the Sacklers are still fucking bopping around.
	So, like, that's...
	They definitely try.
	I mean, that's the thing is, like, we are in a situation where the FDA has been chronically, like, underfunded, understaffed to even do this job by shitheads that I'm looking at right now that's so frustrating.
	Like, oh my god.
	This...
	Okay.
	Yep.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Yeah, sure.
	That's...
	I mean, the fact that he's basically like he's painting a picture where people have no recourse for vaccine injury, which like you have way more recourse for vaccine injury if it can be proven than almost any other injury you have.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, there's an irony to him presenting it this way as well, which we'll get to in a few clips.
	But the background to that law being created in 1986, right, is that in 1982, a TV news report entitled Vaccine Roulette suggested that the whole cell pertussis vaccine was the cause of permanent brain injury.
	Subsequent studies indicated that while the whole cell vaccine was associated with febrile seizures in some cases, it was not associated with long-term brain damage.
	However, those studies took at least 10 years to fully exonerate the vaccine.
	The damage was already done, basically.
	flooded with lawsuits, many decided to just stop making them altogether rather than face continued legal battles.
	Consequently, production dropped massively, leading to concerns about vaccine supply and subsequent vaccination rates.
	And here's the thing, here's the kicker, everybody.
	If you say you are injured by a vaccine or whatever and you go through the vaccine injury compensation program and you disagree with the court's decision, you can then still sue the vaccine manufacturer.
	That is still an option available to you if you disagree with the conclusion that the court came to.
	Though I will say good fucking luck to you.
	Because the VICP standard of evidence falls way below what would be required to take a vaccine manufacturer to task.
	So if you can't get anywhere in the VICP, you're not going to stand much of a chance going up in the big leagues.
	I will say that.
	Good lord.
	Okay.
	Right, but that's the thing is most injury that you could sue about doesn't have that first step of the government will try to believe you with a lower standard of evidence first.
	We used to have that.
	We fucking don't anymore.
	And it was called tort reform, guys.
	And it's one of the pillars of what got Bush Jr. into office.
	And stayed into office.
	It's crazy.
	It's a weird propaganda lie.
	Oh my god.
	Oh my god.
	Alright.
	Let's hear what he has to say.
	I'm going to skip ahead a little bit because Aaron Siri then brings up this chart.
	Well, two charts.
	And he spends about five or ten minutes talking shit about them.
	And what I'm going to skip ahead to is Russell describing the charts that are on the screen and explaining the conclusions that Aaron Siri is trying to advance.
	And we'll take it from there.
	Can I just contribute to this?
	So for anyone that's listening to this, it's just as audio.
	On one side, there's Pfizer's top five selling drugs of all time.
	On the other side, vaccines in the first six months of their commercial life.
	And on the drug side of it, The follow-up side is 6.6 years, 7.4 years.
	And the one vaccine is a six-month follow-up.
	So that starts to raise alarm bells.
	And on the side of the vaccines, there's a Hep B inoculation offered by Merck, an IB... I don't know what many of these terms mean.
	I know that you, obviously, Aaron, know them inside out.
	IPV and a drug called Hib by Merck, a DTAP, Prevnar 13 from Pfizer...
	In each of these cases, it's a matter of days, or at most months, for the safety follow-up.
	And I suppose what you're explaining to us, Aaron, is that once the companies were disincentivised through immunity to provide products that were safe, they recognised they had a whole new market that was free from punitive consequence, so they disproportionately created products in that area because they knew their margins would grow,
	Because they had immunity even in the event that these products were not successful, as well as near mandates for some of those products.
	Have I understood it correctly?
	You did.
	You said it very well.
	I mean, imagine it like this, Russell.
	I came to her and I said, hey, Russell, I got a business idea for you.
	And you're like, oh, really?
	What?
	I got this great idea.
	We're going to sell this injection.
	What's the injection?
	It doesn't matter.
	Don't worry.
	We don't have to worry about safety.
	No, the government said we can't be sued for it.
	Okay?
	You say, well, who's going to take that product?
	You say, don't worry.
	The government's going to mandate that millions of children take it every year.
	Well, but who's going to promote it?
	Don't worry.
	The government's going to take our money and promote it for you to get a guaranteed market, guaranteed immunity, government promotion.
	I think you just summed it up.
	Weird that vaccines still aren't federally mandated, though, so that little hypothetical of his falls apart pretty quick.
	But also, like, we know that the conditions aren't true, so that whatever, like, Russell is generating a false premise, so, like, where are these numbers coming from, right?
	Yeah, yeah, it's- Because they are libel.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	And before I forget, by the way, as well, you can hear it in his voice, but Russell, at the point of this interview, was still coming down off his cough-cough chest infection.
	Sure was!
	Oh, yeah.
	Slash probable COVID. Anyway, so...
	These charts that we're looking at.
	The first thing to note about it, about these charts that are up on our screen right now, is that it's at a URL, which I could look up.
	And the URL specifically goes to a PDF file entitled Siri Testimony.
	And that's because this chart that Aaron Siri is showing us is a chart of his own making, specifically from when he testified before the House Judiciary Subcommittee in the hearing titled Follow the Science, Oversight of the Biden COVID-19 Administrative State Response.
	Which took place in June of this year.
	It's one of Jim Jordan's vehicles, I believe.
	So it's Aaron Ciri's own chart we're looking at that he's presenting as some kind of evidence.
	The charts, yeah, charts, because there are two side by side.
	There's one showing Pfizer's top five selling drugs of all time, listing the drug, the safety follow-up period in the clinical trial, pin in that, And the control used in the clinical trial.
	The second chart shows vaccines given in the first six months of life, listing off five vaccines, the safety follow-up period in the clinical trial for those, and the control used in the clinical trial for those.
	Yeah, safety follow-up doesn't ring.
	That doesn't seem very science-y.
	Yeah, I haven't heard that referred to before as a term, as like a generally accepted term.
	No.
	First, I want to point out how weird it is that he's used exclusively Pfizer's top-selling five drugs of all time, while the vaccines he's listed are from four different manufacturers.
	Like, that's weird to me.
	Secondly, in an effort to seem official, Aaron Siri has taken the trouble to provide references for his data and the claims he's making in this document, right?
	He's listed URLs and stuff, if you scroll through it, which is fun.
	More than half of them appear to come from either Aaron Siri's law firm's website, Aaron Siri's Substack, or are from ICANN, Del Big Tree's anti-vax organization.
	Yeah, I'm looking at the five vaccines.
	The one on the bottom is Pfizer.
	There's only one...
	Like, why are we looking at Pfizer's top five selling drugs of all time?
	And they're all Pfizer, right?
	On the left.
	And then there's one Pfizer at the bottom.
	Of the vaccine list.
	Yeah, exactly.
	Lazy!
	At best!
	At best!
	Lazy.
	The reference used for determining what Pfizer's top five selling drugs were is from moneyinc.com.
	In what is...
	Okay...
	In what is seemingly a blog post from April 2023, claiming that Enbrel, Eliquis, Prevnar-13, Lyrica, and Lipitor are the top five selling drugs sold by Pfizer.
	There is no source provided for that, no data pointed to, just a guy on a website saying some stuff and listing some drugs.
	And that is what Aaron Sirius said.
	How dare you slag off the storied and research institution of, what was it?
	Money Inc.
	Yes, MoneyInk.com.
	How dare you?
	Look, they could be the place to get your Money Inc.
	news.
	I don't know.
	Ivy League?
	Tish Pshaw nonsense.
	Mayo Clinic, piss up a rope.
	MoneyInc.com, that's where I need my information about.
	That's where you get your investment advice.
	Vital vaccinations.
	Yeah, yeah.
	So that's what Aaron Suri decided to use to base his information on when testifying in front of a congressional subcommittee.
	What I'm getting at is, like, this shit wouldn't pass muster at AP level, let alone in a fucking court of law, so one might think Aaron Ciri's standard of evidence might be a little bit low.
	That's what I'm suggesting here.
	The next thing to point out, yeah, is the whole safety follow-up business.
	See, Aaron Ciri is using this little chart to try and make the assertion that the vaccines in that list are only tested on humans for a tiny amount of time compared to drugs.
	Right?
	He's saying that HEPB from Merck had a safety follow-up of only five days, IPV from Sanofi only three days, HIP from Merck only three days, DTAP from GSK only 28 days, and then Prevnar 13 from Pfizer comes in at six months.
	Except, yeah, safety follow-up isn't the phrasing used in the study, and with good reason.
	See, the actual phrasing is monitored for five days after each dose, with three doses given in the case of each of these vaccines.
	So three days become nine days, five days becomes 15, and so on and so forth.
	But the reporting of like, that's just monitored, you know, medically, immediately after the shot, like for that specific set of time, you know, and then there's time between the shots themselves, right?
	But...
	The reporting of any adverse events does not end there.
	They're not like, well, nothing happened within two weeks, so I guess it's all fine forever.
	Like, there are long-term reporting systems in place.
	And not only that, but these vaccines will have been in development in one form or another, generally for years.
	Yeah, probably the years on the other list of 6.6 years, 7.4, 4.9, 2 years plus.
	That's about...
	Right.
	Yeah.
	That's about right.
	Like, we got super lucky with the COVID-19 vaccine, in that we already knew what we were doing with SARS and coronaviruses and had new mRNA technology, which drastically sped up the process of actually putting a vaccine together.
	These vaccines that we're looking at in this table all took years to put together, years to go through animal testing and clinical trials and years to go to market, and there are still post-licensing studies performed and adverse effects monitored on a regular basis.
	Aaron Siri, on the other hand, is trying to present this as though the Hep V vaccine from Merck was studied for five days and then left alone.
	And it's utter and complete horseshit.
	You know, it's complete nonsense.
	And from a legal perspective, I can't make the claim that he knows all of the things that I'm saying and that he's actually a malicious liar making millions by preying on families who don't know any better.
	I can't make that claim legally.
	So all I'm left with for legal reasons is that he must be a fucking moron.
	If he's not a liar, which I can't conclusively prove, technically, then he must be a moron.
	We'll say it sure appears that way.
	It certainly seems that way, doesn't it?
	It certainly appears to...
	It really...
	That's what she's giving.
	She's...
	I'm sorry, now all I can look at is a safety follow-up.
	Five days, three days, six years.
	Does that not even give you pause?
	That's the thing you would need to...
	That's what I would want to investigate looking at this table.
	Oh, wow.
	Why is that happening?
	That's a different problem.
	Yeah, that doesn't seem right.
	Either it goes all the way to the top and it's a total cover-up or it's an obvious lie.
	Hmm.
	I wonder.
	So, next, Russell provides his assessment of what should happen to fix all of this.
	So, a sensible piece of legislation might be to end that immunity.
	Yeah.
	Yes, that would be extraordinarily sensible, which is...
	Just let these products operate in the same exact environment as every other product out there.
	In the United States, guns have immunity liability for injuries, but even there, it's only the commission of a crime or a wrongful act.
	You could still sue a gut manufacturer for design defect claims, saying that they could have been made safer, and various other claims.
	You can never do those for a vaccine.
	So yes, that would be adamantly sensible.
	And think about it like this, okay?
	Hepatitis B vaccine, the two given to babies were licensed in 1986 and 1989. It's now been, oh, I don't know, over 30 years of them telling us they're safe, assuring us they're safe.
	Promising us they're safe, but you're telling me 30 years later, you still can't lift the immunity liability?
	You still are concerned about lawsuits?
	If they're so safe, what are you concerned about?
	There are drugs that treat just a small few number of people, right?
	So they don't have a large market.
	They can't make a lot of money off them, but yet those can survive in an economic environment where you can still sue the manufacturer of those drug products.
	Here, a product you give guaranteed millions of individuals every single year, you can't make a profit from unless you have immunity liability, that should be very concerning.
	So yes, it would be very sensible, and you've got to ask yourself why they won't do it, despite, by the way, bill after bill being proposed over the years to repeal that immunity.
	It's because of shitheads like you, Aaron Siri, and Del Bigtree, and RFK Jr., and all the other anti-vax grifters.
	Despite having 30 years of data from a vaccine given to millions upon millions of people, you bunch of shitheads would still try to sue the vaccine manufacturers and would still Still clog up the US court systems with your frivolous bullshit at the expense of the families being taken advantage of, usually.
	This is something not often discussed as much, but, like, the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program works better not just for the vaccine manufacturers, but for those making the claims.
	Like, they're not having to, like, take on the titans of industry with massive fucking legal teams.
	They're not having to incur enormous legal bills to people like Aaron Siri, There is, in fact, a very handy chart showing, like, oh, what injury is it that's been sustained and from what vaccine?
	Well, here's the amount you're likely entitled to, provided you can reasonably prove it was the vaccine that caused this problem.
	And it's relatively quick.
	Like, civil suits, on the other hand, for this type of shit against a massive pharma company takes fucking years, costs hundreds of thousands, and then you've got the stress of having to go through it all.
	But shockingly, the lawyer who makes a lot of money from years-long lawsuits wants that to be the standard practice.
	Huh!
	Interesting.
	Yeah.
	This is just...
	Okay.
	All right.
	Yep.
	Great.
	Cool.
	Yeah, that's the thing.
	It's like our health system under capitalism, which...
	I don't know if you've heard.
	It's going great.
	Everything's super duper.
	Everybody's really happy.
	No, honestly, we have been getting told by the media, not just right-wing jobs, whatever.
	We've been getting told...
	By our government, by our presidents, by the media.
	A lot of Americans really love their insurance.
	Like, really love their health insurance.
	That's real.
	Like, that's a real thing.
	Yeah, yeah.
	I've heard that claim.
	Never, ever say those words in that order out loud again.
	Nope.
	No, we obviously don't.
	That time is over.
	That's a pre-Luigi, post-Luigi, we're not, that's out now.
	Nope.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	It has been wild watching the media kind of tie themselves in knots over this situation.
	You're like, what in the fuck?
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Chiropractors are making a bent because they are just bending themselves into a pretzel.
	But that's the thing.
	The health capitalist fucking – that this guy is 100% a part of.
	This is another – also another example of like this is the – Yeah.
	Like, vaccines are bad, but ivermectin works.
	I sell it.
	What do you know?
	You are also part of big pharma if you are profiting off of the pharma you sell.
	Like, he's 100% within the big pharma.
	Like, he's making the money off of it.
	Because, like, just like when we talked about abortion and what you mentioned earlier with manufacturers, like, if there is liability that is, like, there's possible liability, companies just won't do it.
	They just won't do it.
	And similarly, in, like, if insurance fees are so exorbitant, that's not a thing that we've necessarily been able, like, this is a newer problem as far as, like, insurance against liability.
	That's why you're not going to have abortion clinics, even if they are legal and allowed, because there still might be, you know, Texas still might come find find your ass.
	Like there's, there are these like legal frameworks that are the opposite of what he's describing.
	And it's just, it's so frustrating because like regulations help companies.
	They do the job for you of figuring out how you don't need to be liable, but companies have thrown so many little fucking bratty hissy fits, like, no, I want to make more money!
	I want to do that instead of doing a good job!
	I want the money!
	I don't want to do the good job!
	I don't want to do the work, dammit!
	Yeah, they understand fundamentally that a regulatory system like OSHA, whatever, FDA, all that, can get you a lot more easily because you have people coming in and checking up on you than just like, oh, well enough people have to be able to sue our monstrous corporate bank of lawyers.
	Like, baying your blood like wild dogs with all the money in the world.
	Good fucking luck.
	People still do it, and it's incredible that it even still gets to happen at all.
	And our Supreme Court is...
	Nixing those options and fighting against us every day.
	Oh my god.
	Regulations are great.
	Also for companies.
	The only problem is the short-term quarterly CEO's only job is to make more money every quarter thinking.
	Because that is their only legal imperative as a CEO is to make more money every quarter.
	Which I can't think of a more banal evil impetus.
	Understanding the rest of the system of capitalism, it's crazy.
	Seems bad.
	Seems bad.
	Yeah.
	Companies wanted regulations, so they didn't have to fucking do it.
	But now that you can shell game all your assets and your company as all of these...
	The companies get more legal protections, not less.
	Jesus Christ.
	Yeah.
	Well, we can thank guys like this.
	This is who...
	This little cretin right here.
	Okay.
	All right.
	Yep.
	We know.
	So from here, we move to discussing the hepatitis B vaccine.
	So the company, they did this.
	Merck got this on the market with the absolute minimal safety data that they could obtain.
	And if somebody out there will say to you, well...
	Maybe they already knew it was safe, and these are the arguments I often hear in return.
	Well, they knew it was safe because there was probably other V vaccines.
	This is the very first recombinant DNA technology vaccine in the universe.
	Just like the very first mRNA vaccine was COVID, the very first recombinant DNA technology vaccine ever was this hepatitis B vaccine in the United States.
	And there was, at that point, There had been a prior hep B vaccine made actually with literally human blood.
	Nobody wanted to take it, so that went away.
	So there's no precedent, safety profile.
	The other argument I often hear is, yeah, well, but they probably really tested it in adults well.
	Well, let's just scroll down just right to this sentence and we could see how they tested it in adults.
	1,200 people, so better a little bit, but still completely underpowered.
	And again, only five days of monitoring.
	And again, you can see the clinical trial reports.
	So, you know, I've deposed vaccinologists, immunologists, pediatricians, and, you know, I've asked about this a million times.
	I've waited for, there is no response to this.
	There's no good response to this.
	If you're looking, if you think there's something else, send it to me.
	I'd love to see it because that's what there is in terms of what was lied upon to license this product.
	Oh, well, there we are, everybody.
	Aaron Siri wants you to email him.
	He will dox himself in a couple of clips.
	Should you want that email address, it'll be on the screen for a minute.
	Don't, guys, don't do that.
	Never, ever.
	We would never condone that you would sign him up for every newsletter and free whatever email.
	Yeah, don't do that.
	No, I abhor it.
	Yeah, no, it seems terrible idea.
	Not at all.
	No, you shouldn't put his email on every list you could possibly find.
	Yeah, it'll be on the screen shortly.
	But don't do it.
	Don't do it.
	Don't do that.
	No, no, no.
	So the recombivax hep B vaccine was indeed the first recombinant DNA vaccine ever made.
	What does that mean?
	It means it was the first vaccine that was developed using an artificially made DNA strand that is formed by the combination of two or more gene sequences.
	This new combination may or may not occur naturally, but it is engineered specifically for a purpose either way.
	Recombevax HB was the first approved and licensed for human use in 1986 after seven years of working on the vaccine and going through clinical trials.
	But according to Aaron Seary, it was put through as quickly as possible after only being studied for five days.
	Okay, sure.
	Straight up.
	There's not even an equivalent of...
	The amount of data you have to test, like, to scientifically check as you would for vaccines.
	Because they are, like, universally kind of, like, Applied vaccines.
	I can't think of more of a pool to test from and to learn from.
	Exactly.
	We're talking nearly 30 years later now.
	Millions upon millions of people have had this vaccine.
	If it is in fact dangerous, which is what Aaron's series seems to be heavily implying, where is the wealth of data to prove that?
	Where is the data showing injuries in their hundreds of thousands caused by this vaccine, right?
	Oh, sorry, I forgot.
	They just don't study it or track it or monitor it in any way somehow, if you ignore reality.
	Now, we've spoken about the VAERS system being somewhat useless because it's constantly trolled by anti-vaxxers because it's user-submitted vaccine injuries, right?
	It didn't used to be, though.
	No, it didn't used to be.
	But current day, there are problems with the data, right?
	Inherently.
	Otherwise, there is, however, the Vaccine Safety Data Link, which is a collaboration between CDC and several healthcare organizations across the US. VSD uses databases of medical records to track vaccine safety and do research in large populations.
	By using medical records instead of self-reports, VSD can quickly study and compare data to find out if reported side effects are linked to a vaccine.
	Then there's the Post-Licensure Rapid Immunization Safety Monitoring System, or PRISM. PRISM focuses on vaccine safety.
	It uses a database of health insurance claims to identify and evaluate possible safety issues for licensed vaccines.
	Then there's the Clinical Immunization Safety Assessment Project, or Kaiser.
	Kaiser is a collaboration between CDC and a national network of vaccine safety experts from medical research centers.
	Kaiser does clinical vaccine safety research and, at the request of providers, evaluates complex cases of possible vaccine side effects in specific patients.
	There's also BEST, the Biologics Effectiveness and Safety System, which is a system that uses multiple data sources and rapid queries to detect or evaluate adverse events or study specific safety questions.
	Other than that, the Department of Defense, the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs and the Indian Health Service, IHS, have systems to monitor vaccine safety and do vaccine safety research.
	The National Institutes of Health and the Office of Infectious Disease and HIV-AIDS policy also support ongoing research on vaccines and vaccine safety.
	So, if these issues are coming up, like Aaron Siri is saying they are, it's an incredible conspiracy that none of these monitoring efforts are picking up on any of them.
	Like, that's truly incredible, by which I mean not credible.
	Well, they're implying there is a massive cover-up, which is also just...
	Not credible.
	For a second.
	Right.
	Like, the amount of people that would have to be in on it and would have to comply, like, with and keep their mouth shut forever for this, like, massive conspiracy.
	Like, Occam's razor says no.
	The thing that, like...
	I'm baffled.
	Okay.
	All right.
	And y'all can correct me.
	I'm kind of pulling from my memory.
	There's certainly more specific information, but there was an instance where a hepatitis B vaccine was made from contaminated blood, and that was a problem.
	That was a manufacturer, like a while ago, right?
	That was a manufacturer problem.
	There was a recall.
	There was a recourse.
	It was fixed.
	That's a regulation and manufacturing problem, and a screening problem, not inherent in vaccines.
	And that's enough, I think, that he can use as a cudgel to make this point that is totally...
	It's an anecdotal...
	And obviously it's bad, but it's an anecdotal...
	Example that, like, his shorthand, I'm sorry, I am blown away that he just gets to say, oh, there was a vaccine made from human blood.
	Ew, that's gross.
	No one wants that.
	I'm sorry.
	Blood drives?
	Plasma donation centers?
	No one wants it, though.
	That's like, this, okay, fucking what?
	It's just...
	That on its face is such a wild thing to say.
	Do you know how many?
	It's easier to count how many bus shelters and buses don't have plasma donation ads on the side of them in this city than the other.
	Straight up!
	They're desperate.
	People are, like, the healthcare industry and human beings that benefit from it are desperate for blood donations and plasma.
	That is, like, people need it so badly.
	This is, what a terrible human being to say that, like...
	Oh!
	That's...
	Yes.
	You gotta forget about the blood mobile.
	You gotta forget about the blood mobile.
	You gotta forget about blood donation.
	You have to forget about all of that to listen to this guy.
	You have to be very selective, don't you?
	To listen to what he has to say.
	You just have to check out of...
	The buildings, like what happens in the buildings in your neighborhood, which, I mean, you guys probably don't have to pay for it.
	I don't know.
	I don't know what plasma donation, I mean, oh, we gotta sell our blood.
	This is a bad place.
	I don't know if that's the same in the UK. Legally, you're not allowed to sell your blood over here.
	It has to be done for free.
	Wow, crazy.
	That's it.
	That's in the law.
	Oh my god.
	But yeah, there are adverts all the time.
	So, you know, save lives, give blood, you know, that kind of thing.
	You know, it's a real thing over here.
	You know, you get little stickers and stuff.
	Yeah, you get cookies and orange juice.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, yeah.
	You get, like, a little card, and if you give enough donations, like, they'll give you, like, a bronze card, and then a silver one, then a gold one, if you do it often enough, and that kind of shit.
	So they are paying you.
	I see.
	Kind of.
	I see the game.
	In shiny gold cards.
	Right.
	Elites.
	Yeah.
	Us elites with our gold cards.
	So next, Aaron Siri takes issue with how one of the studies on a different vaccine was conducted.
	And here's another piece I can never make up.
	And honestly, if I'd have thought of the most nefarious things I could say about vaccines, I would never say it had to use license on five days because I thought it was totally nuts.
	And I'm going to show you another thing that I think is totally nuts.
	I'm going to open up the package insert for Prevnar 7. Remember this product that had the 7.2% adverse event rate?
	Yes.
	So you might hope that here's the package insert for that product.
	So safety was reviewed in this one depending on what they looked at for days or maybe weeks.
	So they didn't have six months.
	And they were comparing Prevnar with a control.
	Well, you hoped the control would be what?
	Because there's no other product on the market that's a seven-valent meningococcal vaccine in the U.S. So you should have compared it against placebo.
	But you see the little cross right there?
	Yes.
	Let's go down right here and let's see what the control was.
	Can you see that?
	Yes.
	Would you like to do the honor, sir?
	Investigational, mening...
	I can't really read that word.
	Mening...
	Meningococcal.
	Group C conjugate vaccine, MNCC. What does that mean?
	Do you know what investigational means?
	It means unlicensed.
	Oh.
	Does it?
	That was the control.
	The control was another unlicensed product.
	So they had a clinical trial for this, for Prevnar 7, That wasn't six months.
	It was far shorter.
	And they didn't compare it against a placebo, even though there was no 7-valent meningococcal vaccine that I'm aware of that was on the market license in the US. So there's no standard of care.
	They should use a placebo.
	What do they use?
	Another unlicensed vaccine.
	So, this right here is why the scientifically illiterate should not be making arguments about science.
	The thing about a control group is that all that's actually required for it to act as a control is for the scientists to already have data on what the results of giving the control group a certain substance should be, and that it's not the one that's being tested, right?
	So it could be saline, it could be a placebo, it could be a dose of heroin, but as long as they've got data and can accurately predict what the results should be, you can use kind of anything as a control.
	Meaning the scientists conducting the study knew what the results of giving that investigational meningococcal group C conjugate vaccine would be.
	In other words, they had already done the clinical trials on it to a sufficient degree where they knew what the results of giving this other unlicensed vaccine to humans would look like.
	It was another one that they were trialing, right?
	And so they could administer it as a control and compare it to this other vaccine that they were trialing in this particular clinical trial.
	In a way, it was actually better to do it this way because they were doubling up on their testing of that one that was further along, and they could directly compare the two in the results of the same study.
	Right?
	So, actually, it's better.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, and if he has a problem with how these studies can be conducted, he needs to attack the regulations around it to then make them more strict, not get rid of them!
	This is what's crazy!
	It's like, every piece of his argument is a paper-type, right?
	Like, every piece of his argument does not hold up to even...
	Like, you don't have to be science-medically literate to, like...
	Think it out!
	No, no, no, absolutely.
	Absolutely true.
	Other things to note here is that Aaron Siri is making a big deal of there being a 7.2% adverse event rate over the period the vaccine was studied.
	That part, that part, right, yeah, work, yes, cook, uh-huh, uh-huh.
	Now, here's the thing he doesn't mention.
	There's a baseline adverse event rate, even on a placebo, right?
	As in, adverse events will happen to people regardless of whether or not they are taking a vaccine.
	This is precisely why, right, if I grab the insert to my epilepsy medication right here, sorry, a little bit of Alex Jones foley happening...
	I apparently have up to a 1 in 100 chance of injury.
	Just injury.
	No further information on that.
	Just injury.
	Because those are the numbers of people who were in some way injured in one way or another during that study of my medication.
	They could have stubbed their fucking toe, and it goes on the list.
	Dude!
	It happened last week!
	Like, go ahead, finish.
	Yeah, yeah.
	If I go down to the rare section, I apparently have a 1 in 1,000 chance of suicide, personality disorders, delirium, seizures getting worse, that's a fun one, pancreatitis, liver failure, and hepatitis, because regardless of whether the meds caused it or not, those things happened to people in the studies of the medication I'm on at a rate of up to 1 in 1,000 people, and so it must go in the pamphlet.
	Yeah, some of those could be blamed on oxygen because everyone's breathing if we're going to use that.
	Dude, okay, alright, for real.
	Last week!
	You were included.
	They say adverse event, right?
	Could be anything.
	Adverse event rate.
	You got...
	Okay, we talked about it the last time that we recorded.
	You're like, I've got my appointment to get vaccinated.
	I'm stoked.
	And then I heard you a week ago and you sounded...
	Like, you were on death's fucking door for that day, right?
	Like, you were the adverse event rate!
	You're still alive!
	What do you know?
	Still here.
	I definitely had some adverse effects from either the COVID booster or the flu shot.
	Or the flu shot, right?
	Or both.
	You know, who knows?
	And yeah, it was a rough, like, 48 hours or so, right?
	And now I'm fine.
	You know?
	That's right.
	Like, that's the adverse event rate.
	Like, that's everything.
	Like, all, like, death to...
	Everything is included in that number.
	This is, like, every single piece of his argument.
	If you just think about it, first of all, he's completely wrong.
	Second of all, like, this...
	I don't...
	I don't want to get excited about, like, the thrilling...
	And incredible miracles of modern medicine, because, like, I don't benefit, personally, from any of those for what's wrong with me, but I understand it.
	I'm so excited for the rest of humanity that could...
	It's amazing.
	If these fucking shitheads weren't running around making everything worse, that this, like, it's such a fucking miracle.
	It's just, like...
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Absolutely.
	The ways that people used to suffer and die, we don't have to do that anymore.
	And we still have to do it.
	It still happens.
	But we don't even have a memory or concept of what it was like before we had these modern marvels.
	Yeah, very few of us.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
	Absolutely.
	And to put a cap on this, if the adverse event rate for Prevnar 7 was significantly higher than the control group in that study, and especially if it was for any particular set of adverse events, it wouldn't have been licensed.
	And it really is as simple as that.
	If there was like, oh, this thing is doing all this stuff over here in the You know, in an abnormal amount compared to the control group, then they would have been like, oh shit, okay, back to the drawing board, we need to fix this.
	That's the whole point of doing the trial.
	Dear, oh dear.
	Yeah, yeah!
	Okay, so now Aaron Ciri somewhat changes his tune a bit.
	And I could tell you that we have 40 people in my law firm that do almost exclusively vaccine work.
	We have, I think, the largest vaccine practice in the world that doesn't represent pharmaceutical companies.
	And you can bring a claim for vaccine injury in America and other countries, but you can't sue the manufacturer.
	In America, you sue the secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services.
	You sue the federal health authorities that tell you it's safe.
	There's no right to get – you can't subpoena documents.
	You can't depose the companies.
	This program won't let you do it, but you can bring a claim.
	And so we get calls all the time from parents who want to say, hey, my child had this reaction or that reaction to a vaccine.
	Okay, so there is legal recourse then.
	For the last 45 minutes, he's acted like there wasn't any.
	Interesting.
	And it is, of course, ironic because it is the bread and butter of his firm in many ways.
	Because, you know, in many cases, when wanting to make a claim through the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, you're going to want legal representation to make sure it's done correctly.
	And that is true for both the frivolous bullshit claims of vaccines giving kids autism, and then the genuine and real claims where kids and adults can and have been genuinely injured by vaccines due to the side effects.
	It's unfortunate, but it does happen, with the most serious effects happening, you know, in the odds of, like, 1 in 10,000 or something like that, but still.
	And those people do need to be represented and counted and compensated and have their grievances respected.
	But that is only a fraction of what Aaron Siri is up to, and ultimately his firm gets paid either way.
	So, yeah.
	Yeah, I mean, that's more of this like regulations help companies.
	And this is what they're trying to do.
	By they, I mean this joke right here is like if regulations, like if your resources are pooled to use all this different data and then improve your vaccines because there are injuries, when you learn about the injury, then you can improve the vaccine next when you learn about the injury, then you can improve the vaccine And your company can do that job to find out that something bad happened.
	And having all the companies that make – I mean this also is where corruption can happen and that needs to be addressed, obviously.
	Everything I'm saying is like granted, yes, corruption is everywhere and it's not good.
	Yes, absolutely.
	But like if you – instead of every company having to do all their own like research on their product instead of several companies making the same product pooling their resources to learn and improve their technology – if you have every company doing their own thing and keeping their head down, this is how government regulation works.
	allows for cooperation to improve the product.
	Yeah.
	So you don't have to keep reinventing the wheel because that's wasteful.
	But they don't give a shit about the...
	I'm mad that everyone isn't having this conversation.
	Right, left, center, whatever political affiliation probably is just fucking rich and in power isn't having this conversation either.
	This is messaging that I shouldn't have to say!
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Oh, and yeah, within the process of, you know, the vaccine injury compensation program, there's no need to depose witnesses or demand documents or any of that shit because it's a no-fault process, and he knows that.
	It's a compromise to make the thing quick and efficient.
	So, like, hey, right, this thing, we're all just going to acknowledge this thing happened.
	Let's work towards, you know, making sure everyone's appropriately compensated quickly and efficiently.
	You know, that's it.
	Oy, oy, oy.
	Now, Russell gets a little bit heated about all of this and takes it in an ill-advised direction.
	You know, we're being light about it because that's the way we're communicating, but at the end of each one of these tendrils is devastation across families.
	It makes me wonder, Aaron, even if something like the oft-repeated mantra, a near taboo of saying that autism may be connected to vaccines, which people, we're told the same thing.
	There is no scientific evidence to suggest that there is any connection between autism or the increase in kids with autism, Asperger's, ADHD, OCD, ADHD, all of these things, and vaccines.
	Is it true, even with that sacred cow of the religion of vaccines, that there is no scientific evidence, or perhaps I should put it this way, is there scientific evidence to suggest that there is no causal link?
	I think the claim that vaccines do not cause autism, which is a claim that you will hear health authorities repeat over and over again, again like a mantra, It's a great litmus test for whether they've really studied all the other claimed injuries, right?
	There's probably over a hundred serious adverse events from vaccines that parents routinely claim.
	Many of them are immune or immune-mediated neurological disorders, meaning your immune system's gone, something's gone wrong, or it has attacked your nervous system.
	There are, for example, many accepted issues from vaccines like transverse myelitis, Gambray syndrome, It's your immune system attacking your nerves, but there in your extremities, you can physically see the outcome.
	You can end up being paralyzed.
	There's no reason that vaccines can't also attack your nerves in your brain and other parts of your body.
	And if you look at the package inserts, you look at the actual data, they often report encephalopathy and encephalitis.
	I'm getting ahead of myself.
	The point is this, is that if they say vaccines do not cause autism, and it's really true, That they haven't really studied it.
	Then imagine the state of the science for all the other hundred serious issues.
	Yeah, the if-it's-really-true part of Aaron's serious argument is doing a lot of work there, um, because...
	Or that they haven't studied it!
	Exactly, right.
	If it's true vaccines don't cause autism but they haven't really studied it, imagine how little they've studied all the other serious injuries is what he's getting at.
	And yeah, it's really simple.
	They have studied it and found that there is no causal link between vaccines and autism.
	So there you go, Aaron.
	Your dumbass argument falls apart immediately.
	It's called public school.
	Because also, of course they've studied all the other potential adverse effects as well.
	Of course they have.
	It's literally how we know about them.
	It's how he's able to talk about Guillain-Barre and all this other shit, right?
	The amount of data we have on this subject is genuinely too big to even utilize.
	Like, AI, which is just an algorithm, everybody, it's not intelligence, but like, Algorithmic computing is the first option we could have for collecting, collating, and then gleaning data due to the size of data, the size of the ball of data we have about this specific topic.
	It's crazy!
	It can be really...
	Like, there are meta-analyses, like, studying people in the millions.
	Like, numbers in the millions.
	Yeah!
	Yeah!
	You know, and like, yeah, that's a lot of data to have to work with.
	Dear, dear.
	I do want to point out there as well, it was Russell who specifically brought up autism and vaccines, which...
	Makes sense, because he fucking hates vaccines, and he doesn't like autistic people unless they're available for him to make fun of.
	So connecting those two things in a seemingly legit way would be a big win for him.
	And this is off the back of Trump saying that RFK Jr. would be looking into vaccines and autism, and knowing some of what Aaron Siri had been up to as well, probably.
	So hey, why not move this whole thing in an even shittier direction?
	Thanks, Russell.
	Yeah.
	And also, what a fucking waste of time and energy.
	Like, what a massive...
	This is, like, this is the shit that puts my tinfoil hat on.
	This is like, oh, y'all know...
	We've all already...
	We know.
	I know more about Andrew Wakefield and that study and every move that man has made than most other people I want to know about.
	Like the amount of information that is so readily available to discount every and debunk every single claim and sentence that comes out of their mouth.
	And they just want to run that play all over again.
	It's such a distraction from what they're actually going to do.
	They don't have to do a conspiracy cover-up.
	They're like, oh, we're just asking questions?
	No, you're not!
	Yeah.
	You are intentionally obfuscating and you are distracting from the bullshit you really want to do.
	Yes.
	Yes.
	This is concerted and deliberate.
	Yeah, which is steal our money and give it to your friends.
	And you don't care who you hurt in the process.
	Y'all a bunch of fucking sociopaths!
	So, from here, Ransiri tells us what he's been doing to cement the link between vaccines and autism, but specifically casts Andrew Wakefield aside.
	We have been beating at public health authorities for seven years now, demanding the studies that show that the vaccines given in the first six months of life do not cause autism.
	Why are we doing that?
	We're doing that because when you look at parental surveys of parents who have kids with autism, That's something in the order of 40 to 70% of them, despite the fact that they're constantly being gaslit by health authorities.
	Vaccines do not cause their child's autism.
	They did not, did not, did not.
	They still say that vaccines cause their child's autism, still to this day.
	And what vaccines do they point to?
	They typically point to the vaccines that we just actually looked at in that chart, right?
	The 15 injections in the first six months of life.
	And they will often sometimes point to also the MMR vaccine, which is not given any earlier than one year of life, okay?
	And so you would imagine, given that autism can be diagnosed before one year of age, before MMR vaccine is even given, the parents are saying that these are the vaccines that are causing their autism, the Hep B vaccine, the meningococcal vaccine, and so forth.
	That they would have study after study after study showing that those vaccines do not cause autism, right?
	And I could tell you that those studies really don't exist.
	And if I could, I'll lay the groundwork on this in the following way.
	And it's not because nobody's asked the question for a very long time.
	And by the way, it had nothing to do with Wakefield in the late 90s.
	In 1986, When the National Childhood Injury Act was passed, Vaccine Injury Act was passed, it listed the most commonly claimed injuries, presumably, from vaccination at that time.
	And it asked the Secretary of Health and Human Services, our federal health authorities here, to study all the existing literature on whether or not the pertussis vaccine, and then it was DTP, and it was MMR, the two primary vaccines, caused those conditions.
	One of those conditions it asked was whether the pertussis vaccine causes autism.
	So as early as 1986, parents were claiming that vaccines were causing autism at such a rate that they had it in the law.
	I can even pull up the statute if you'd like to see it and we can look at it.
	Yeah, I like this device.
	I like it.
	It's good when you pull that stuff up.
	Remember to come back to your face though, Aaron, because we need that too.
	Yes, sir.
	So Russell is visibly thrilled with the direction of this conversation, but Aaron keeps putting the documents on full screen and leaving it that way, which means this interview actually ended up being one of the more heavily edited interviews on Stay Free, so they can get back to showing Aaron Siri's face.
	He's a lawyer.
	He's used to saying exhibit and then putting up the exhibit.
	And leaving it there, yeah.
	Who wants to look at my face?
	Somebody else is doing the tech, right?
	Yeah, right.
	So Aaron Siri is making a specific claim here.
	He's casting aside MMR and anything after one year of life.
	You know, the stuff that's been studied the most.
	And he's saying, Aha!
	You don't have studies conclusively proving that vaccines given in the first year of life don't cause autism.
	Now, he doesn't have any studies even whispering in the direction that those vaccines do cause autism, but that doesn't matter to these idiots.
	Back in 2010, there was a secondary study performed by Smith& Woods to determine whether children who received recommended vaccines on time during the first year of life had different neuropsychological outcomes at 7 to 10 years of age as compared with children with delayed receipt or non-receipt of those same vaccines.
	This was performed on 1,047 children, 47% of which received all of their vaccines on time, 23% received all the recommended vaccines within one year but not strictly on time, and 30% did not receive all recommended vaccines during the first year of life.
	They were testing for 42 different neuropsychological outcomes, and the vaccines received included DTP, Hib, Hep B, and polio.
	And the results were as follows.
	Quote, Timely vaccination was associated with better performance on 12 outcomes in univariate testing and remained associated with better performances for two outcomes in multivariable analyses.
	No statistically significant differences favoured delayed receipt.
	In secondary analyses, children with the greatest vaccine exposure during the first seven months of life performed better than children with the least vaccine exposure on 15 outcomes in univariate testing.
	These differences did not persist in multivariable analyses.
	No statistically significant differences favored the less vaccinated children.
	And the conclusion, quote, Okay, so that's from 2010 on over a thousand kids, right?
	The other thing I want to point out, Aaron Siri made a pretty wild claim that autism can be diagnosed before one year of age.
	Now, this is technically true, but extremely rare.
	And there's a reason for that.
	See, I currently have an 11-month-old nephew, and my buddy Matt has a two-month-old baby, right?
	So I've been around a lot of young babies lately, right?
	And while the difference between the two is stark, before about 18 months, what you essentially have is a crying and shitting machine that somehow brings you joy.
	And according to Autism Speaks, here are the signs of autism in babies.
	By six months, few or no big smiles or other warm, joyful, and engaging expressions, limited or no eye contact.
	And by nine months, little or no back and forth sharing of sounds, smiles, or other facial expressions, And by 12 months, little or no babbling, little or no back and forth gestures such as pointing, showing, reaching, or waving, and little or no response to name.
	All of these can be indicators of autism in a baby, for sure.
	But they're not really much to go on.
	And because of that, except in extreme and obvious cases, most health professionals equipped to do so will be reluctant to give a formal diagnosis of autism until the child is older and should be better able to communicate.
	Often around the age of at least two is considered enough to be reliable because there's enough developmental information there to work with.
	But Aaron Siri is suggesting, aha, autism can be diagnosed before one year of age, so you must have tons of data conclusively proving that vaccines given before one year don't cause autism.
	And it's fucking absurd.
	Oh, and him saying, well, as early as 1986, parents were claiming vaccines gave their kids autism.
	Why could that be?
	When did they start measuring autism?
	When did they start diagnosing autism?
	When did they learn about...
	1980, the DSM-3 established autism as its own separate diagnosis, which may have something to do with it, in combination with lying shitheads.
	And, you know, it's handy when you're given something convenient to blame, especially when you don't understand how it works.
	Right?
	There you go.
	Yeah.
	Did it.
	Man, that's the thing.
	Like, this whole conversation has gone so far.
	And even Andrew Wakefield, that conversation went so far.
	When, like, define...
	I just want...
	I want to ask, hey, all doctors, lawyers for doctors, everybody.
	Define cause autism.
	Is it a germ?
	Is it a fungus?
	Like, what are- cause autism?
	Have you found the cause?
	Then we can talk!
	Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
	At the moment, things are pointing to genes and some environmental factors.
	The best we've got is genetics.
	People like RFK Jr. have been confronted by doctors saying, hey, we're pretty sure it's this stuff over here that's doing it.
	They don't give a fuck.
	RFK Jr. does not give a shit.
	This guy does not give a shit.
	Genetic predisposition to a type of brain?
	That's not...
	No injection is going to cause that.
	There will be exacerbating factors for that type of brain to exist in the world.
	But that's not...
	Okay, that's a tangent.
	Whatever.
	Yeah, that's...
	Yeah.
	Define fucking cause.
	Like, that's the thing, is all of this whole conversation, and you made the point earlier, which is great, is like, this is so fucking ableist.
	This entire conversation is so capitalist, ableist, and just missing the fucking point completely.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	And it requires an underlying kind of belief that anyone with autism, like, fuck them, basically.
	It's all coming from that direction.
	Genuinely, that's what capitalism thinks, says, and does.
	So that's where they're coming from.
	They are shilling for capitalism.
	Because that's what capitalist, imperialist, fucking patriarchal shit, that's where they're getting this message from.
	So they're reacting to their environment in that way.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Alright, so now we move on to what is basically Aaron's series showing off.
	He's about to play a clip from one of his own depositions of him deposing a guy called Stanley Plotkin, who is literally the reason rubella has been eradicated in the US and basically worldwide.
	Stanley Plotkin worked on a lot of vaccines for rubella, rabies, rotavirus, and CMV as well.
	He is currently 92 years old, and this deposition was in 2018, so he would have been 86. And Aaron Siri deposed him for 8 fucking hours.
	Anyway, let's have a look.
	So this is a video of Dr. Stanley Plotkin, who is literally the world's leading vaccinologist.
	The medical text on vaccines is called Plotkin's Vaccines.
	And this is me asking him about that 2012 IOM report with regards to autism and pertussis vaccine.
	This is an excerpt from the IOM's report, right?
	Yes.
	Can you read the causality conclusion with regard to whether DTaP and TDaP cause autism?
	The evidence is inadequate to accept or reject a causal relationship between diphtheria toxoid, tetanus toxoid, or acellular pertussis containing vaccine and autism.
	If you don't know whether DTaP or TDaP cause autism, shouldn't you wait until you do know, until you have the science to support it?
	To then say that vaccines do not cause autism?
	Do I wait?
	No, I do not wait because I have to take into account the health of the child.
	And so for that reason, you're okay with telling the parent that DTAP, TDAP does not cause autism even though The science isn't there yet to support that claim.
	Absolutely.
	So there you have it.
	From the mouth of the world's leading vaccinologist, he's going to tell you vaccines don't cause autism, even without the science.
	And if you watch that deposition, which went for eight hours, where I deposed him on all these issues, What you'll see is that, and this is one of the lures of vaccinology, is that as long as they don't study it, as long as there's no study that shows it does or doesn't, like they just don't look at it, they'll say the vaccines don't cause it, even without any data.
	And you, Aaron Siri, will insinuate the claim that vaccines do cause autism, even without any data, right?
	You may notice that clip of Stan Plotkin cut off real quick at the end there.
	So here's what he went on to say.
	I sure did notice that!
	Uh-huh!
	Aaron Siri asked, shouldn't you wait before administering vaccines until you can conclusively prove they don't cause autism?
	Plotkin said, no, I do not wait because I have to take into account the health of the child.
	Basically asserting that, hey, maybe definite rubella is worse than possible autism for which there is no evidence.
	Aaron Siri then said, oh, so you're okay telling parents that vaccines don't cause autism even though the science isn't there yet to support that claim?
	And Stan Plotkin responded, no.
	And this is the bit that got cut off.
	I'm also willing to tell them it doesn't cause leprosy.
	And that part is cut off in any version of this that I've seen shared online because it's a very obvious, there is no evidence for this bullshit claim that you're making, so fuck off.
	And this was after an 86-year-old man being deposed for seven hours already, and I'm honestly amazed he has the patience he's able to demonstrate there.
	When he's a professional.
	That's called a consummate professional.
	Seriously.
	Like, this is the memory that I'm talking about that we do not have anymore that can haunt my dreams because I'm curious about it.
	Women had to have ten kids.
	It took 10 years.
	Our bodies were used to make enough kids so that some would live because this is how they would die.
	I was like, wait, is that scarlet fever?
	And I did a little quick Google while I was listening and it was like, oh no, it's German measles.
	Kids used to, and guess what?
	Make it a big comeback!
	Babies used to die from measles and scarlet fever.
	Even just like the books we read as kids is about like the injuries that children who had scarlet fever, oh and they lived!
	Hooray!
	But like, that's like the beginning of the book that we read when you were in grade school.
	Like, this harrowing, barely not fatal event in their childhood that compromises their immune systems forever, or not all the time, enough.
	And then like...
	You have, women have to be baby factories to counteract these diseases, and we don't have to do, like, you don't have to roll the dice with your kids because of these vaccines!
	Rabies!
	Like, I remember seeing old Yeller as a kid and being like, ooh, that rabies seems like a bad thing!
	And, like, it's thanks to Stanley Plotkin that we're like...
	It's kind of an issue we mostly don't have to worry about too much now, you know, because we gotta fucking shut up for that, right?
	Right!
	Well, yeah, but I mean, like, I'm talking about, like, you know, scarlet fever, measles, like, measles, mumps.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	We don't even know what that shit looks like anymore!
	I do, because I watch fucking history documentaries all the time, and, like, and Victorian is the easiest to get to, because they have the most stuff, and it's cheap to make up.
	So you don't gotta do a lot of research?
	It's all right there.
	Very easy.
	They even had photos for part of it.
	So like, that's the thing.
	It's like these, um...
	Man, it's an antique store.
	Every antique mall...
	In America has one gorgeous, at least one gorgeous, heartbreaking piece of Victorian art, like, memorial art for a kid that died.
	And it's expensive.
	And it's not...
	Like, Victorian hair art.
	Like, these are, like...
	There were whole movements and, like...
	There were these built-in cultural practices because you just had to process the pain and grief of watching your babies turn into just a pile of red bumps and die in hideous ways instead of having these vaccines.
	This is what these people want us to do.
	To return to.
	Yes!
	Yeah, they want a world with typhoids and polio to come back.
	Yeah, they also want to fucking stop testing the wastewater to make sure there isn't enough shit in it to give you fucking cholera, right?
	Like, these are all...
	Yeah, it all seems really bad and dangerous.
	Anyway, Aaron's series conclusion was, as long as there's no study, they'll say the vaccines don't cause autism, and dude, there are hundreds of studies, plenty of meta-studies looking at millions and millions of people, and there is just There's no link between autism and vaccines.
	You can't just keep switching to a new vaccine and being like, but what about this one?
	Without having a scrap of evidence to back up your claim.
	It's the dumbest game of whack-a-mole that we're having to play at this point.
	Yeah, like...
	The game is off.
	Whack-a-mole is off.
	It's unplugged from the wall, and they want to still hit the same, like, oh, well, the mole popped up there once.
	Baby, that was two hours ago.
	You're just smacking a piece of MDF, and this Chuck E. Cheese is trying to close.
	What are we doing?
	Mm-hmm.
	Mm-hmm.
	So Aaron Ciri next basically calls Stanley Plotkin a liar before getting into what I know is one of your favorite things, Lauren, that occupies a lot of Aaron Ciri's time, and it's foyer requests.
	2018, Dr. Stanley Plotkin in this deposition again confirming there is no studies, right?
	He's got none.
	He's okay with basically, I mean, my kids might call that lying.
	I don't want to use such a strong term, but let's just say he's not being forthright with these parents if they ask him.
	We then submitted a Freedom of Information Act request to the CDC. We said, well, maybe the CDC has studies, even though the medicine couldn't find them, Maybe the CDC has these studies, so what we did is we submitted a request, and what we said is, can you give us the studies that show that DTaP vaccines don't cause autism, the studies that show the hep B vaccines don't cause autism, that IPV. We did it for all of the five vaccines given three times in the first six months of life, and we asked for the studies that show cumulatively that they don't cause autism.
	They should have these available.
	The website for the CDC says vaccines don't cause autism.
	They didn't give them.
	We finally had to sue them.
	I sued them in federal court on behalf of our clients.
	And after going back and forth to the Department of Justice, which represents the CDC, they finally capitulated and they finally agreed to provide a list of studies.
	And I'll pull it up on my screen.
	I'll show you the court order that has it.
	I'll do this again.
	And here it is.
	This is a federal court order in the United States.
	United States District Court, Southern District of New York.
	Lawsuit was brought by the Institute for Autism Science and Informations in Action Network against the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
	It's a federal lawsuit.
	And you could see in the, and this is basically the quote-unquote, you could call it a settlement, but it's signed by the judge, so it's an order of the court.
	And in it, it summarizes the FOIA requests that were at issue in the lawsuits, because here's what I asked for, what I just described to you, right?
	All the studies that show that DTAP does not cause autism and so forth, right?
	You can see them right on the screen.
	Mm-hmm.
	So, this is a settlement, because Siri agreed to drop this little suit upon receipt of these studies that he's requesting, or the information that he's requesting in these FOIA requests right now.
	This is...
	This is a fairly common tactic for Aaron Sirian.
	He likes to go on little fishing expeditions with FOIA requests, basically.
	And when he's not getting what he wants, there's enough funding from Del Bigtree or whoever else, ICANN in this case, Del Bigtree, to ensure it gets turned into a legal case where whoever it is then complies to the best of their abilities, right?
	Gets put in front of a judge and every other fucking thing.
	Aaron Siri is the reason all those voucher emails were turned over using exactly this tactic for reference.
	In any case, the thing about FOIA requests is that there are a lot of reasons you might not get what you're looking for or something even close to what you're looking for.
	You know, maybe they just don't keep that kind of record in that specific place or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
	And one of the other reasons is specificity.
	And...
	There are a couple of reasons why these FOIA requests we're looking at are a bit shit.
	To my eye, there are immediately two things.
	He's asking for all studies relied upon by CDC to claim that the DTaP vaccine does not cause autism, and so on with a bunch of different vaccines, right?
	Now, the CDC may have plenty of studies they could cite, but rely upon is very specific language.
	It implies the drawing of conclusions from whatever studies are provided.
	which leads me to the second issue which is that and it's surrounding this entire conversation is that you can't prove a negative um definitively it's it's not possible um if someone asked me to prove i'm not secretly a massive fan of kevin sorbo how do i go about doing that i can't stand kevin sorbo for a litany of reasons for the record but it's very difficult to conclusively prove that i'm not secretly a massive fan you can't know that because it's a negative
	it's very difficult to conclusively prove accordingly that vaccines do not cause autism i'm Genuinely do not like Kevin Sorbo, just for the record.
	But see, now it's going to be in all your heads forever, right?
	Because how do you prove a fucking negative?
	Like, I can show there's no causal link between vaccines and autism.
	I can show there's no evidence that the vaccines do cause autism.
	But that's as far as we can go in terms of proving a negative.
	Yeah, right.
	I guess foyer requests are one of my favorite things.
	I like learning information, I guess.
	The people I listen to can use them very effectively.
	But I can't prove that they're not one of my favorite things.
	And now you've said it.
	So yeah, I guess I can't prove they're not one of my favorite things.
	But like, yeah, I do understand how they work.
	And you have to have like, any study that talks about bears, that's not a FOIA request!
	That's not...
	Like, you can't...
	Like, or...
	Or they're gonna be like, you need to...
	They need to come back and be like, hey, which bears?
	Like, we need to be more specific.
	This is a conversation that can happen.
	Yeah, and he can sue...
	Like, it's...
	You can indict a ham sandwich, right?
	Like, you can sue over this stuff because he's a lawyer and he...
	Yeah, and he has, like, infinite resources.
	So he can sue over, like...
	And because...
	Because of the way that this works, a settlement is so unhelpful when you're trying to...
	like a settlement versus a verdict, right?
	In a lawsuit.
	And that's why Russell knows very well that if you settle out of court, then you keep a bunch of shit under wraps that you would otherwise put into the public record in a trial.
	So the settlement nature keeps the conclusion of said lawsuit behind closed doors in a way, because again, there isn't anything to talk about in this instance, there's not anything to talk about, right?
	They didn't find the thing that they needed.
	Because if the government was hiding this information actively, that's what the lawsuit kind of presumes is Then that would be your investigation.
	You would find that out and find anything.
	There are redacted FOIA requests that are in these different investigative stories that need to be researched and understood.
	That happens.
	That's not what this guy is doing.
	No, no.
	And whether Aaron Suri knows all of this, I don't know.
	But needless to say, he wasn't pleased with the results he was given.
	He was given 20 studies, and, like, 18 of which were just, you know, to do with, like, MMR or thimerizal, or, like, hey, how none of these things cause autism.
	Because he gave...
	He just gave a really fucking vague request and got a bunch of...
	They basically just, like, here's a bunch of stuff for you.
	Here you go.
	He didn't get the answer he wanted, so he sued.
	He didn't get the answer he wanted.
	And so once again, after this, he claims, Aha!
	They're not studying any of it.
	See?
	I'm right.
	Yeah, it's not there, and that proves that...
	Not that I'm bad at my job.
	That's like, genuinely, he's taking advantage of people that are seeing and learning, and maybe not so...
	Maybe they're a dateline more than a PRI. Okay, fine, sure, cool.
	More than a CBC deep dive, okay?
	But the understanding that FOIA requests...
	Information can be obfuscated or held back in FOIA requests from the government is a thing that we know a lot more about than we did several years ago, right?
	It's in the zeitgeist.
	I'm very compelled by the redacted photo requests that have to be, especially in the Dark series.
	What she's had to do every single season, and definitely with the Hadifa massacre that she worked on most recently.
	Oh my god, I cannot recommend it enough.
	Please, please, please go listen to it.
	It's incredible.
	But the redactions are what the investigative team had to figure out when...
	What was redacted and why?
	Because those redactions were protecting the government.
	They were protecting the Pentagon and the military.
	It was that there's a there's there's a through line that you have to be looking for.
	Not just like he's just asking questions, TM.
	Right.
	Like, yeah, that's not a FOIA request.
	Nope.
	No, it is not.
	Okay.
	So, now we get to yet another clip of Aaron's series showing off.
	It's another deposition, another eight-hour deposition, but this time of a lady called Catherine Edwards, MD, sometimes known as the godmother of vaccines.
	She was pivotal in the development and evaluation of vaccines for Hib, pertussis, the flu, and pneumonia.
	She is, I believe, 76, and the time of this deposition, she would have been 72. The clip is a little bit longer, but it illustrates Aaron Siri being just an infuriating piece of shit.
	So let's see what Dr. Edwards has to say with regards to the state of the science with vaccines and autism, literally out of the mouth, from the world's, you know, leading vaccinologist.
	And let me see if you can.
	Conducting clinical trials.
	Okay.
	According to your profile, you have done most of the preventable trials relied upon to license many of the vaccines, correct, on the market?
	Yes, sir.
	Okay.
	So you're highly experienced at conducting clinical trials, correct?
	I'm highly experienced conducting clinical trials.
	And you're familiar with many of the clinical trials that relied upon to license many of the vaccines currently on the market, correct?
	I am.
	In your opinion, did the clinical trials relied upon to license the vaccines that Yates received, many of which are still on the market today?
	Were they designed To rule out that the vaccine causes autism.
	No.
	You've badgered me into answering the question the way you want me to, but I think that that's probably the answer.
	Is that your accurate and truthful testimony?
	Because they were studying something else.
	Yes.
	In the expert disclosures for this case, it asserts that, among other things, you will testify that, quote, the issue of whether vaccines cause autism has been thoroughly researched and rejected, end quote.
	It's your testimony that MMR vaccine cannot cause autism?
	That's correct.
	It's your testimony that Hep B vaccine cannot cause autism?
	That's correct.
	It's your testimony that IPOL cannot cause autism?
	Yes.
	It's your testimony that Hib vaccine cannot cause autism?
	Yes.
	Your testimony that varicella vaccine cannot cause autism?
	Yes.
	It's your testimony that Fevnar vaccine cannot cause autism?
	Yes.
	And do you have a study that supports that DTaP doesn't cause autism?
	I do not have a study that DTaP calls autism, so I don't have either.
	Do you have any study, one way or another, of whether IPOL causes autism.
	No, I do not, sir.
	Do you have any study, one way or another, of whether Endrex B causes autism?
	I do not have any evidence that it causes autism, nor that it does not.
	And what about Hib Titer's vaccine?
	Any evidence, one way or another, whether it causes autism?
	What about Prevnar vaccine?
	Any evidence one way or another?
	No, sir.
	No, sir.
	And how about varicella vaccine?
	Let me just finish.
	Are there any studies one way or another that report whether it does or doesn't cause autism?
	Part of MMR, but not as varicella by itself.
	No, sir.
	No studies that say it does or no studies that say it doesn't.
	Right.
	There have been studies that have found An association between hepatitis C that's seen in autism, correct?
	Not studies that I feel are credible.
	Okay.
	Which study are you referring to when you say that?
	Well, why don't you show me the study and then I'll see whether I agree with it.
	That's amazing.
	That's amazing.
	It is amazing, Russell, but...
	Okay, okay, okay.
	That was powerful for me.
	That was out-fucking-rageous.
	And I don't normally say this to listeners or whatever, but the timestamp's probably going to be around the two-hour mark.
	Watch this video.
	This part of the video, that was really important to me to see...
	Her reaction and then Russell's reaction to her reaction because she's like, yeah, driving my car doesn't test whether or not this causes autism.
	Drinking this cup of coffee also doesn't test whether or not it causes autism.
	And they're getting more specific for sure.
	But he was just asking unrelated questions.
	Yeah.
	Legally, he should have to define cause autism.
	Seriously.
	Like, it's kind of amazing that he doesn't have to define that case, right?
	Like, he doesn't have to define that, like, that use case.
	Like, I don't know the better word for it, but like...
	I mean, maybe he did somewhere earlier in the deposition.
	I don't know.
	I didn't watch the full eight hours.
	I think that he would have to, like, if this was a different deposition, right?
	Like, if she had a lawyer present, I don't know.
	But, like, I would think, like, that's like a, it's not even like a question that should be valid.
	Like, if you say, cause, you know, like, cause thunderstorms.
	You'd have to define that.
	You know what I mean?
	Do you have a study conclusively proving that this vaccine does not cause thunderstorms?
	No.
	No, I don't have that study.
	No, I don't have that study.
	Right!
	Because again, what's happening here is that Aaron Sirius weaponizing both the legal definitions and Catherine Edwards' own integrity against her.
	Because Catherine Edwards, she knows none of these vaccines cause autism.
	She knows there's no evidence that any of them cause autism.
	But she also knows that because the negative can't be proven, she can't make the claim that the studies into these vaccines and autism conclusively prove that vaccines don't cause autism.
	She cannot say that and still maintain kind of professional integrity.
	The same way she wouldn't be able to claim conclusive proof that the vaccines don't cause leprosy, to use Stanley Plotkin's example from earlier.
	And yet both of these individuals, I'm sure, would be content to say these vaccines do not cause leprosy because there is literally no evidence that they do.
	And it is the same situation with autism.
	Right.
	And yeah, you're right.
	But if he said cause leprosy...
	They'd say, yes, we know what causes leprosy.
	There's a bacteria that causes leprosy.
	So it's even more specific than what he's defining, right?
	Like, it's even worse.
	She would still be forced to answer the question the same.
	She would still be forced to say, well, no, we don't have a study that conclusively proves this doesn't...
	Yeah, I know, but I'm saying, absolutely right, but I'm saying even the cause is leprosy is more specific in that it can be defined, and he doesn't have to, because that's, I mean, I don't know, maybe I watch too many lawyering shows, maybe I watch too many true crimes, but I'd be like, define causing autism!
	Can you tell me that?
	These questions aren't even answerable because cause autism?
	Because you can say, like, cause leprosy.
	The bacteria that causes leprosy.
	Cause autism, question mark?
	Yeah, on its face, it's already like...
	I don't like how my kid came out.
	That's how we define causing autism.
	Straight up.
	Like, for real?
	What is more...
	Oh my god.
	And to watch, like, Russell revel in it is gross.
	He's giddy.
	He is positively giddy.
	Like, because Aaron Seary managed to get Catherine Edwards to say, well, the studies don't conclusively prove that vaccines don't cause autism, both Russell and Aaron are taking that as a big win, a victory, as proof that, aha, they don't know!
	Yeah, those studies don't also prove that my transmission is broken.
	Like, that's not...
	And neither Russell nor Aaron Siri are acknowledging that, oh yeah, there's no proof that these vaccines do cause autism either, but they don't need to.
	They both believe it, as do their audience, or appear to believe it, which is why if you look up these clips online, there are scores of comments from people thinking that Aaron Siri massively owned both Catherine Edwards and Stanley Plotkin, which is not what fucking happened.
	Not by any stretch, but that's the way that the anti-vax community is perceiving.
	They're listening to half the answer and chalking it up as a victory.
	It's amazing.
	They're also picking and choosing that, like, oh, well, this lawyer is great.
	Like, lawyers are bad, but we love her.
	Because lawyers, at the end of the day, debate for money, and they get paid if they win.
	That is what their job is.
	It's not about being right or true.
	It's about proving your argument in court and winning the debate.
	And it needs to be said, because I think you're making another really good point of dragging these seniors into Into hours-long depositions.
	It's an interrogation, right?
	They are hounding them for eight hours.
	The only reason he gets to do that is money.
	Money and spite.
	It's just money.
	They have the power to do it.
	They're doing it because they can.
	Imagine the good that could be done with those same resources, that same money, that same energy, that same time.
	Yeah.
	Even for these kids that are struggling!
	They don't give a shit!
	They do not give a single solitary dollar of a shit about kids who are sick!
	So never believe it when you hear that!
	Because that's not how they behave!
	Don't buy it if it comes out of their mouth!
	Yeah.
	A hundred percent.
	And I will say, like, they're the same way with lawyers as they are with studies as well, like clinical trials and that kind of thing.
	The anti-vax community, they're always like, clinical trials, oh, they're all terrible.
	No.
	None of them have done well.
	Except for this one.
	I like this one because it seems to lean something towards, you know, gesturing towards the conclusion I like.
	So I like this one.
	I think this one's proving me right.
	That's what Russell was doing right now.
	He's like giggling like an absolute buffoon because he's like, this is proving me right.
	It's super not.
	He should, like, watching that testimony, if he knew what he was talking about and he had, like, any kind of concept that he's claiming to have, he would go quiet and be ashen if he understood what was happening in front of him.
	But instead, he's like a little supervillain fucking rubbing his little claws together.
	And it's just, and just being thrilled.
	Like, because you're too dumb.
	Like, well, no.
	He's heavily incentivized to not, like.
	He knows how this is going to strike his audience and he's reveling in it.
	So he's excited.
	Yeah, there's a willful ignorance to this, I would say.
	Yeah.
	Because he's got a profit from it.
	Stomach should be falling into his ass, and he should be ghost white if he actually understood what that conversation was.
	That's what his reaction should have been, and it wasn't, and that's, oh no!
	Oh no!
	The experience he should be having is, oh no, my guest is full of shit.
	Oh no!
	You're just like, oh, this woman isn't, this isn't the proof I thought it was.
	My guest brought me something wrong.
	That's what, if I saw that, I'd be like, oh no, nope, this isn't, we gotta do a different episode.
	This isn't, no, no, no, this is not what this is.
	Yeah, yeah.
	I'd be like, oh no, you've just brought me a clip of elder abuse.
	What are you doing?
	What?
	This doesn't prove it!
	Like, you are building, like, okay, listen to that dude talk, right, for what, 45 minutes you said at least?
	And then playing that clip, I'd be like, I'm sorry, what are you basing this on?
	Everything you just said, we can't publish this.
	We can't put this out.
	Because that's not proof.
	That's like the logical choice for a host of a show to make.
	That's not proof.
	Yeah, that seems bad.
	I can't put my name on this.
	Like, that's what the reaction should be.
	It should be.
	Instead, Russell from here makes some grand conclusions.
	Because what I feel when I'm watching that, what I feel like is they have no studies and they have defaulted, they have defaulted to recommendation and this sort of certain and aggressive position that vaccines do not cause autism.
	So, even if we defaulted to, and I know that this is not your, that this certainly is not a claim you're making, but if I were to default to vaccines do cause autism, I can refer to the exact same number of studies that they can, with the exact same certainty and expertise that they can.
	The studies don't exist either way.
	And it starts to make you think, which is another thing I've intuitively felt, only the studies and trials that are profitable are the studies and trials that are taking place.
	No one's conducting studies and trials that are going to negatively impact the bottom line of Merck.
	Pfizer, Moderna, Johnson& Johnson, because who's going to fund that study and for what reason?
	And the whole legitimacy that Fauci et al marched into the pandemic arena with was based on the idea of empiricism and evidence and truth and justice and honesty and transparency.
	And none of that was verifiable or justifiable.
	Sure.
	So, once again, here we have Russell essentially using this interview with Aaron Sirius' confirmation bias, because he is the one who's brought up the idea that the only studies and trials that are performed are the ones which are profitable.
	We're back to the fucking dragon argument.
	Which completely ignores the many hundreds if not thousands of studies conducted year on year by academic institutions and regulators which have zero profit motive involved whatsoever.
	But fuck it, why let reality get in the way of a good narrative?
	No, they're publicly funded so then companies can use that and not have to do it themselves and then make a profit on top of it that we pay for.
	Yeah, yeah.
	The problem isn't us paying for it.
	The problem is they can make money and not have to do the work.
	Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Also, Russell, if you claim that vaccines do cause autism, you do not have the exact same certainty and expertise as vaccinologists, epidemiologists, scientists, and medical professionals because they have decades of training in this subject matter while you have decades of training in being a shit on camera.
	Those two things are not the same.
	Fundamentally.
	He said zero!
	He said zero out of his mouth after he's like, well, they don't have any studies that says it don't.
	Well, I don't have any studies that say it does.
	So then those aren't the same.
	No, they're really not.
	And you better fucking hope you don't say that the wrong way because the US isn't going to do anything about it, but the UK sure can fucking take you to task legally over making a claim like that.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, well, he's still hiding out in Florida.
	Is that why?
	Is this why he's in Florida?
	Because he just wants to say his shit and get away with it?
	I want to be able to say stuff, dammit.
	And not go to prison for my crimes.
	Oh, dear.
	Okay, now the next clip is a little bit upsetting because it's Aaron Ciri recounting a story about a couple apparently treating their autistic children less than compassionately in what sounds like a stressful moment.
	Though that is not, of course, the way that Aaron Siri frames it.
	But I am going to play this clip for a reason.
	And it's a serious matter.
	There's a story.
	There's a couple out there who have triplets.
	And that Prevnar vaccine, remember the 7.2% and 8.2%?
	They have triplets.
	And after giving their triplets an intracoccal vaccine, that's shocked.
	All three of them within 24 hours totally shut down.
	You watch the video of these two and she's an audiologist so she understands the reflexes and so forth and she did all of the reflexes.
	The mom tells the story in this video and then the dad does and he ends it by saying, he goes, Years later, they're still not potty trained.
	In the middle of the night, you get up.
	There's poop all over the kids.
	Soon, there's poop all over them.
	There's poop everywhere.
	He starts yelling.
	She starts yelling.
	Everybody's yelling at the kids.
	The kids are getting upset.
	Everybody's yelling.
	He said, the only person that's sound asleep in their bed absent is the guy who told you that those shots are safe.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	So naturally, I tracked this video down.
	And it's a video hosted- Was it Ruby Frankie?
	Jesus Christ.
	It's a video hosted on the Children's Health Defense website, so RFK Jr.'s anti-vax website.
	And the video itself comes from the team who made Vaxxed, the shitty Del Bigtree anti-vax movie.
	And it's kind of one of the little extras that they were doing afterwards.
	And it's a story of two parents, the McDowells, who apparently had entirely normal triplets until the day they were all vaccinated with Prevnar at just over nine months old.
	And then two of them immediately shut down that afternoon, supposedly, and another one of them shut down some six months later.
	That's the phrasing that they use.
	Now, I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt and assume that these parents are in fact real and aren't just paid actors because you never truly know with outfits like these ones, but let's err on the side of this being a real story.
	The dad does go into a lengthy story about at least one of the kids at age seven still not being potty trained, filling a nappy, getting uncomfortable and taking it off, and then the parents yelling at both each other and the kid.
	Sounds miserable.
	One of the big reasons parents like to blame vaccines for their children being autistic is that the vaccines are administered around the same time signs of autism start to make themselves truly and obviously known in a child, right, as you mentioned earlier.
	And a diagnosis can potentially be made within the following year or two.
	And so it feels like there's a correlation, even if there isn't one.
	I will say babies being quiet following a vaccination is entirely normal.
	Maybe they're tired!
	My daughter April was very quiet after hers as a baby because, hey, getting vaccinated usually isn't the best feeling in the world, as my experience last week demonstrated.
	Yeah, you quote-unquote shut down because you got a full of vaccines that have a reaction in your body that protect you from a disease.
	Exactly.
	Correlation in timing does not demonstrate a causative link, no matter how much someone might want it to.
	And the fact that all three of these children have autism, all three of these triplets have autism, to my ear sounds like, hey, maybe this whole genetic stuff, there's a good argument to be made there.
	Now, I bring all this up not to debunk these parents who are going through a tough time.
	Regardless of their beliefs, it sounds hard, right?
	Or to minimize their experience.
	But to point out Aaron Ciri's role in all this, in that he's bringing this video up as some kind of definitive kind of evidence, despite not knowing the names of the family, their backgrounds, the validity of their story, or any of it, all while not disclosing the fact that, oh, by the way, this information comes from an exclusively anti-vax outlet paid for by anti-vax fucking activists.
	This anecdote comes from an organization that looks for these anecdotes.
	Indeed.
	But none of that matters to Aaron Siri because it's an emotional story and it helps sell the narrative.
	Who gives a shit whether it's true or provable when it sells the story he wants it to and serves his interests?
	That's the game he's playing.
	He's doing debate club, doing lawyery stuff.
	Well, that's their job.
	That is their job.
	Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly.
	Anyway, all of this vaccine injury stuff is very upsetting, but thankfully Aaron Siri has a solution for it all.
	Our regulators are conflicted in the US and other places by the fact that they literally are who you sue For vaccine injury, and they literally have to defend against any claim that the vaccine causes injury.
	If they do any studies that shows it causes injury, it's called an admission against interest.
	Lawyers will use it against the federal health agencies.
	Regulators are a very weak way to make products safe.
	Just look at The old Soviet Union.
	Look at other countries that didn't have free market economics, economic interest in companies.
	Do you think they did a good job of assuring product safety?
	No.
	Regulators are not what makes product safe.
	It's economic interest, but they play a role.
	But when it comes to vaccines, the economic interests are gone and the regulators are totally conflicted.
	So who's left to assure the safety of these products?
	Ah, so it seems unregulated free market capitalism is actually the way to fix this whole thing, apparently, and that's how you ensure the safety of vaccines.
	Good to know.
	I have nothing to say, because I already said it.
	Right.
	Aaron Siri would stand to make a bucket load of money litigating cases against pharma companies via this method, so he does have a vested interest in this outcome.
	But with the suggestion that unregulated free market capitalism is the answer to making things safer, like, I don't have to go very far back to suggest that's not the case.
	Like, Tesla and Boeing, to name just a couple of recent manufacturers who maybe aren't regulated strictly enough, Also, like, hey, why don't we have lead in gasoline anymore?
	What happened there?
	There are a whole fucking list of things.
	Well, yeah, and you know what is...
	Well, what's...
	I think, just like, you know...
	You know, we just had a conversation about, like, how the media and, like, you know, reporters aren't necessarily on the right side of history and we can't rely on them, right?
	Right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Like, the whole...
	Consumer protection as a movement started in Victorian Britain, right?
	It was not because of any other – it wasn't the government and it wasn't companies.
	It was individuals boycotting and protesting and they wanted – and that's actually now why there's like – there were smooth glass bottles and little nubbly – like with the little dots on them glass bottles because those bottles had poison in them and people were grabbing the wrong ones and putting poison in their food instead of – Cilantro, right?
	That was...
	Excuse me.
	Coriander.
	You know what I mean?
	That was a grassroots...
	The consumers themselves had to advocate for that.
	We lose that understanding.
	Just like we lose the understanding that the government is supposed to be us.
	We are supposed to be governing ourselves.
	It's all kind of connected.
	We need to be advocating for more regulations because the regulations from the government should be us agreeing that we don't want poop all over our lettuce anymore.
	That's...
	Because it'll make us sick.
	That's us saying we don't want that.
	So making...
	It is such a fucking...
	I mean...
	So the government ain't helping and these bad actors ain't helping their own cases for not being us by the government not listening, not being responsive and not being responsible in a lot of ways they need to be and transparent in a lot of ways they need to be.
	Unlike, say, Maria Bamford can do it.
	Well, get your shit together.
	But then also these people are not...
	This is a bad actor...
	Oh yeah.
	Using his money and power to make our situation actively worse.
	Yep, yep.
	And, um, small quibble, but, uh, it's not like, with the vaccine kind of court situation, it's not, um, like the FDA that are the ones kind of having to, like, litigate and go through all that.
	It's not like OSHA, it's not any of these, like, it goes through HHS, who, yes, like, the FDA are under HHS, technically, but the FDA don't give two fucking hoots about what's going on up there in terms of the, uh, In terms of the litigation and what's going through the vaccine courts.
	So that conflict that he's pretending is there is not there.
	Right.
	Because there's separation between those two departments.
	Because he can make as many spurious connections as he wants.
	Yes, he can.
	Alright, we've got one more clip here and this is how they close out the show.
	Again, like I said, no conspiracy.
	And COVID vaccines fell right into that paradigm.
	Everybody was shocked about how COVID vaccines were trialed.
	The clinical trials, oh my God, that's not good enough.
	What are you talking about?
	Compared to most vaccines, they're amazing.
	Six months of safety review, you had an average two months of placebo control, 30 to 42,000 people.
	You're going to take a vaccine based on the clinical trial.
	If that's the metric, well, then COVID vaccines, I think, have pretty much the best clinical trials out there.
	If you're going to look at post-licensure safety studies, COVID vaccines have more post-licensure safety than I've seen almost any vaccines.
	And when people go, how can the health authorities do this?
	Well, because from their perspective Those trials were amazingly robust.
	From their perspective, what they did post-licensure was amazingly robust.
	From the perspective of your average thinking, breathing, normal human being who's like, I want to protect myself, my family, my kids, and you look at this stuff, you're like, that's crazy.
	But that's the state of affairs for vaccines.
	Aaron, that's amazing work.
	I feel like it's been an incredible journey with you.
	I feel like, firstly, you should have your own show, but I know you're a pretty busy guy.
	Yeah, I don't know about that.
	Yeah, Aaron Searer should definitely not have his own show.
	He's lacking the charisma.
	Yeah, and honestly, even his sub stack is too much.
	Like, the title of it is Injecting Freedom, and that is quite frankly...
	No!
	Nah, you lying.
	That's a mean joke, how dare you?
	All Aaron Seary actually told us in that clip there was that the average Joe doesn't have much in the way of scientific or medical literacy.
	And like, duh.
	Like, yes, people who don't understand the science behind it were shocked that we put together several COVID-19 vaccines and a quick turnaround.
	Those of us who had some awareness that the vaccine was created off the back of years of coronavirus research and the advent of mRNA technology are a bit more like, yeah, that actually makes sense.
	Though it was still an amazing fucking feat, by the way.
	It was incredible.
	And the fact that we could taper off a global plague in such quick fashion is an incredible feat of human ingenuity.
	But it's based off a shitload of work that had already been done, and the average Joe might not know that, and so people like Aaron, Siri, and Russell can take advantage of them.
	Well, the average Joe, the thing is the average Joe absolutely could know that.
	Sure.
	Because it was called SARS-CoV-2.
	Yes.
	Two.
	That implies there's a one.
	So we already knew about other stuff.
	Yeah, the people are trying to have some thoughts.
	And we are building on – well, but that's the thing.
	It's like they don't understand because you have intentionally – you being these guys have intentionally obfuscated these very simple concepts of like – A lot of people get sick, the disease mutates, and it's called SARS-CoV-2, not one.
	It isn't too complicated.
	People can understand, unless there is a capitalistic and imperialistic fucking, like, patriarchal motivation that To gain more money, power and influence by wielding the money, power and influence that you already have to obfuscate the situation.
	And if it wasn't fucking incentivized with bags and bags and bags of money, more money than I will ever even interact with in my entire life...
	I don't even understand what this life is that these people lead.
	Genuinely, I don't.
	Like, it's crazy.
	Guys, I am excited about consignment checks that are embarrassingly small.
	Compared to, like, what these guys take home in a week, I'm a different species.
	But also, I am.
	I'm a different fucking species, right?
	Like, that's...
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	I mean, there's a part of me that's slightly jealous that you guys get paid for your blood over there and we don't, you know?
	That's the situation I live in.
	It's not a lot.
	No, it's not.
	It's not.
	We're not.
	I don't know.
	Yeah.
	It's not.
	No.
	There are problems there.
	No, no, no, no, no.
	Also, a lot of us can't.
	You know, like, that's...
	Right.
	Right.
	Yeah.
	Yes.
	Yeah.
	Anyway, fuck.
	Fuck these guys.
	Vaccines are overwhelmingly safe.
	Get your shots, everybody.
	Ignore these idiots who have no evidence and stay in good health.
	Please.
	Please.
	Yeah.
	Especially, you know, winter, you know?
	Well, and especially, like, okay, so...
	Alright, so I saved my rant for the end.
	Because genuinely, I haven't thought about this before.
	And I know I'm talking to some really great brains smarter than me.
	And I want to hear what you have to say about it.
	Because I haven't thought about these people not even defining cause autism.
	Because it is so ableist and it is so, like, the amount of child abuse that they are probably actively, like, encouraging and causing because you are encouraging parents to, like, treat their child like changelings.
	Yeah, yeah.
	I do want to say as well, we're a pretty neurodiverged podcast, I think.
	So I do apologize if any of this was tough for people to listen to through their own experience and everything.
	Well, I'm going to bring that back around.
	I'm going to call y'all right back in.
	We're going to have a little weirdo powwow right now.
	And that's exactly why I'm saying what I'm saying.
	This is a situation where...
	If these people are so worried about vaccines with these like just tenuous, barely even like they're not coherent arguments, which we've just like they're not coherent arguments.
	And they're so focused on that, but they they can't even define cause autism when it's probably fucking really likely that it is just a way that brains are made.
	Autoimmune disorders and other environmental factors can cause problems and can exacerbate issues that this type of brain is susceptible to.
	tool.
	They're gonna talk about vaccines and they're not gonna talk about this stupid little plastic fucking rectangle that holds the whole world and everyone's life in it?
	I'm sorry.
	My brain was made to gather herbs and spices and berries and...
	And by using pattern recognition and problem solving and to hide from predators that want to eat me.
	That's how my brain developed.
	And the more that our natural, real IRL world, our tangible world, where we could go to a job and stamp the same thing every day...
	And it's drudgery for some people, but maybe it'd be awesome for me to have that work to do to support myself and have a totally functional life where I get to talk to people in person instead of forget to text you back because I fucking thought I already did.
	Because, like, there are all of these, like...
	Because I have a visual memory, right?
	Like, all of these ideas about, like...
	How are we not understanding that this is maybe just a way that brains are made and the environment around us is hostile?
	Or, like, you're not looking into fucking plastics?
	You're not looking into microplastics?
	You're not looking into environmental factors that absolutely have links to hormone disruption and autoimmune disorders?
	Those are the things that will make life harder to live with the type of brain they call autistic.
	Or...
	Or they call neurodivergent.
	And to say that, like, my child shut down, would you say that if they got a cold?
	No, you wouldn't!
	That's crazy!
	And, like, you are, like, oh my god.
	So...
	Even the way that, like, they're talking about these kids observing them, like, freezing or, like, you know, like, being expressionless on the outside.
	We finally have a way to talk about our internal experiences, and they are myriad.
	It is a kaleidoscope, and people are giving—they finally have a way to give their input, not just be observed by, like— Horrible, judgmental men in the most uncomfortable situation in the 70s.
	And we're still using this old idea, 90s, whatever.
	This incredibly biased, like, oh, they shut down.
	Well, what I know, the opposite is happening on the inside of my brain.
	These are brains that are easily overwhelmed.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah, overstimulated.
	as ADHD, fucking whatever, all of it, is like you are overstimulated and so you look like you're not having feelings.
	You're looking like you are...
	Like the outward appearance is either...
	Is maybe placid or frozen or whatever.
	It is not reacting.
	And the internal experience...
	The thing that never fucking made it on the page...
	Is the person describing how they feel...
	Is it's...
	It's a fireworks factory just like exploded...
	That's what's happening on the inside, but on the outside, it doesn't look like anything's going on, and that's the only input that we had to figure any of this shit out for decades.
	We are finally hearing...
	Every description I heard about autism, ADHD, whatever, up until I got diagnosed with ADHD when I was 30. I was around 30. I don't remember exactly.
	And here's the issue, right?
	Like...
	The descriptions had nothing to do with my lived experience.
	And finally, I'm hearing like, oh, the words that you were saying?
	Because I'm so literal in my thinking.
	I wonder why.
	Oh, that wasn't actually what I felt like.
	Oh, the more kind of like updated and fleshed out descriptions of these behaviors.
	Holy shit, I thought I had a personality this whole time.
	I thought I was quirky.
	No, no, no.
	Y'all just didn't do your words right and you didn't listen to anybody and instead you just wanted to put labels on people and...
	And there's so...
	And, like, it is absolutely a spectrum because some people can function fine with parts of this, like, digital life where, like, we have a visual memory and we are...
	I remember shit that I see and hear, whatever, right?
	And so it's harder and harder for people who were...
	for all of human history until we started moving towards a digital world where like, if I had a stack of letters of all my emails, you best believe that'd be done in two hours and I'd have a great time doing it.
	But because it's in this black fucking square that even lit up just to spite me right now, this little stupid square has every piece of information that matters at all, but I can't remember it I just got a piece of fucking plastic and metal.
	And so, magically, I'm stressed.
	Magically, I have a hard time functioning.
	Like, it's just...
	It's like...
	Okay, I'm going to use a different idea and apply it here.
	The reason that we have road rage as a problem is because it is a stressful situation and you are in cars.
	It is impersonal.
	We tell ourselves that we aren't about to die, but we are because we're in cars.
	So it's stressful.
	That's our brain saying, predators are hunting me.
	I'm scared.
	And then whenever someone...
	Or like, you know what?
	It's even a better example, but similar.
	If you're on the phone with customer service, or you are trying to troubleshoot something, and it just won't work, your computer is fucking up and you don't know why, the reason you get so instantly angry is because there's nothing you can do about it.
	It just happens.
	You did everything right.
	You were showing up.
	You're following the rules.
	And it's still gonna...
	You know, like, PC loan letter?
	What the fuck?
	Like, you're gonna be mad anyway because of your lack of agency.
	That's what makes people instantly angry.
	So when you are getting overwhelmed like that by, I don't know, someone chewing gum or the wrong pitch of a noise...
	We're only looking at the results.
	I knew I couldn't say this in the middle.
	I didn't want to fucking do that.
	So I had to write this down and make a little note because I think what it feels like to me, the more I think about it, is my brain wants to take my thoughts to cold storage when I still need to use them.
	There's this little platform where you have thoughts and then your brain can hold onto them for a while and mine doesn't want to do that.
	Mine's like, I've already put it in the filing cabinet.
	So if I got to do anything, like if I want to send a text, if I want to figure out, like if I want to make a list, I have to go, I got to march my happy ass down.
	I got to put in a request with somebody in cold storage and they got to go into the files and bring it back out.
	And oh, maybe I forgot to do that.
	Maybe I got to pee and I got distracted, whatever.
	Like there are so many reasons why the, like this world is increasingly hostile to different types of brains.
	So, motherfucker, you better prove.
	You tell me, cause autism.
	You define that phrase, and then we can fucking talk.
	Because if there isn't a, like, cause leprosy, we know that.
	Is it bacteria?
	Cause autism?
	Tell me.
	Because, like, these, man, kids are getting, like...
	Even the parents of the kids who are frustrated with how their children are behaving.
	They are micromanaging.
	They are scrutinizing these feelings that maybe, especially if they're 30, 40, they grew up in a time where you just got shoved outside.
	You could be as fucking weird as you wanted and your parents didn't care.
	They were too busy.
	It's this kind of like...
	Yeah.
	that you've made for yourself to wind yourself up into a froth and decide that your kid is broken instead of maybe you were broken in just the same fucking way and your parents were chill about it.
	Or your parents decided to hit you and that's why you have anger problems.
	That's the thing.
	It's like there's so many like confounding factors, right?
	Like, compounding issues.
	Our environments are getting, like, guys, the poison's already here.
	Like, it's so bad, you know?
	Like, all of these factors, they certainly, to me, and this is just my theory, right?
	Is, like, all these factors, and I've kind of laid out my theory just now, like, I was built to be a rag and bone man, right?
	Like, that's what's so instinctive and natural to me, and I know what my skills are.
	And I have sat and watched everything I'm fucking awesome at be completely devalued by capitalism as I'm just sitting here.
	Like, truly, like...
	And in a way that, like, it's just...
	And I'm still participating.
	That's why I'm...
	Y'all can't smell me.
	I smell terrible.
	Because I don't have time to take a shower because I'm too busy making shit.
	And that's going great.
	So, like, on a piece...
	On paper today?
	Oh, well, I'm fine.
	I'm not.
	But, like...
	There were so many uses for this type of brain and just because it doesn't work with capitalism doesn't mean that you just get to throw away what I guess estimates are up to 20% of how people work.
	People!
	I think higher than that.
	I had a discussion with a friend the other day about neurodivergence and she said to me that there were kind of scientists exploring the strong possibility that actually kind of neurodivergence and that kind of thing is actually like the next step in the evolutionary chain.
	And I was like, well, I wish evolution wasn't so fucking inconvenient, but cool, I guess.
	It's not gonna be!
	Because capitalism is actively trying to stamp it out.
	Guess we'll never know!
	And, um, I will say, like, this entire conversation is particularly relevant, um, as this is the last episode that we'll be putting out before Christmas Day, um, and everyone will be around, you know, with the holidays, around family and everything, and, like, for me, personally, there has not been a family gathering that I have been to since I was at least, like, ten, where I have not had to routinely step away for, like, fifteen minutes and sit in a room quietly by myself because of overstimulation.
	But it's so normal.
	It's so normal.
	Do you understand?
	Listen to me.
	I'm going to support...
	Again, these are two anecdotes.
	But directly, my Uncle Rick...
	My memory of every Thanksgiving and every Christmas after dinner, one uncle goes and watches the game in one room.
	Uncle Rick goes and lays down in the living room and just, he's not asleep.
	He's just vibing.
	He's...
	I have a photo I took of it that I developed.
	It's over there.
	I can see it right now.
	Because Rick was the fucking best.
	And so many of us have these...
	Because like, I mean, I have a million examples of my neurodivergent ass parents and family doing neurodivergent.
	things that used to not be weird yeah it's just who you were i genuinely feel even like gender like the understanding of gender and gender expression i think that the definition of gender and this is something that like i've been freaked out about for decades at this point because when i was a kid also this has been been talking to therapists about this for uh several many decades now basically as soon as i could afford to start going to one
	like well the definitions like how much do the definitions of what it means to be a man or a woman those definitions have gotten so much more narrow and so much more strict through culture like culturally like through social pressures and a lot of us probably either didn't feel pressure in the same way to fit into this like very fucking narrow standard of what those terms mean
	so even old people that are like oh why are you why you gotta be non-binary like why do i have to say that now when like all my friends were just like you 50 years ago like Because people weren't incentivized to all look like one woman, one Kardashian, the daughter of the lawyer who was a friend of O.J. Simpson.
	And that's the only definition of what a woman is.
	That there used to be a diversity of experience that has been, like, just shorn away by modern, like, by advertising.
	We've lived in 100 plus years now, like, Edward Bernays, like, propaganda, like, that, that recognize patterns, solve problems, hide from predators, gather sticks and berries and roots, all of those basic mechanisms we developed are used to scare us into buying things.
	And to badger us and make us feel bad into buying things.
	Why are we so tired?
	Why do we feel so bad?
	If you have to buy all this stuff to be a man or you have to buy all this stuff to be a woman, well, then if you can't buy all of it and if you don't like buying all of it, then you're a fucking weirdo and you need a different qualification.
	Like, I mean, there's so many different ways to attack, like...
	To pull apart the argument, the disingenuous argument of gender and what it means and how it's...
	Even that idea, you think about our grandparents and our great-grandparents, it wouldn't even be an issue.
	It wouldn't be a discussion because they didn't have this hyper-capitalist...
	They were citizens.
	They weren't consumers.
	Consumerism is...
	It is inextricably fused to the idea of gender.
	So then why the fuck are we, like, all of the, like, we're dealing with the, like, very tail end stupid bad faith arguments through Russell of all these, like, weird conservative, like, exploitative talking points when, like...
	You wouldn't recognize the America you want to make great again.
	Because corporate taxes were at 60 fucking percent.
	It's a totally different world.
	And genuinely, that's why a lot of us weirdos, and I don't know about experiences that you guys have had overseas or whatever, because genuinely it seems like a much nicer place to live.
	I have to live in the prison petri dish, and I really don't like it.
	And our grandparents were usually way more accepting than our parents.
	Because they weren't kind of like, they didn't get to be teenagers.
	The only people that ever got to be teenagers were boomers.
	Because there was so much money sloshing around here.
	So like, that kind of, like, they didn't have that, they weren't conditioned to, Unless they were rich.
	But if they were poor, they're like, call yourself a saber-toothed tiger.
	I don't give a shit.
	I love you.
	You show up to school every day.
	I've spoken about my grandfather on this show before.
	You know, he reads The Telegraph.
	Very conservative, right?
	Like, when I came out as non-binary and all of that stuff, like, I remember having the conversation with him of him just being like, Oh, yeah.
	Yeah, like, they've been around since forever.
	It's just the Nazis burned all of the fucking research and literature, didn't they?
	And, like, having this very supportive conversation with my otherwise very conservative grandfather.
	I'm like, wow, okay.
	And you know how many listeners, baby, I see you, I hear you, you know how many listeners are having those same, remembering these same conversations that they've had with their family?
	Like, that's, it's the same shit, right?
	It's like, it's the fact that consumerism and capitalism and like, so it can be a commercial for Dawn dish soap, okay?
	It is corporate propaganda.
	We have been so thoroughly corporate propagandized, we can't even envision a world without that.
	And it just wasn't that we didn't have the technology we didn't have the money and these little fucking blinky shiny terror boxes that hold everything but also nothing because this is just a piece like this is just a rectangle that I have to have around all the time with the cover I found ugly enough that no one will everyone will know what's mine because it's so ugly that's my choice that's that's there's there's a reason for everything because that's how my fucking brain works Because my mycelium roots go all the way down.
	And some of us needed to be that way.
	And now that I'm not convenient...
	I don't just think I'm being eradicated.
	I feel it.
	Doctors say it to my face in so many words.
	Or they don't say it to my face.
	They're like, fuck up.
	Everything's going to be great.
	And then they send me home and do nothing that they said they're going to do.
	And, oh, actually, we can't do that.
	And, nope, that doesn't make any sense.
	And somehow everybody else's doctor on Reddit cares.
	Yeah.
	Not mine!
	Not mine!
	They're just like, oh my god, you look so tired.
	No fucking shit!
	What?
	Yeah.
	That was personal?
	That was about a specific person.
	I'm sorry that went a little specific.
	But like, just...
	Well, hey, I've got a doctor's appointment tomorrow.
	I'll let you know how it goes.
	I bet it'll go better!
	Hopefully.
	I think so.
	I mean, genuinely.
	It's so...
	I kept hearing it even in the conversation they were having.
	It's easy to see...
	Having an invisible disease, having an invisible disability, an invisible illness, throws people into a motherfucking tailspin.
	And that isn't...
	If you learn about...
	Tuberculosis.
	Even hysteria.
	You learn about these things like...
	You learn about how diseases used to be treated.
	And granted, it was like, oh, you're a moral failing.
	God hates you because you did something wrong.
	So now you are cursed with a mystery disease.
	Also a problem.
	But that's why they made vaccines!
	Because six out of your ten children that you have...
	Manufactured with your mortal human body and you've survived?
	Amazing.
	There's no way that you will have made to the same natural death from having pumping out 10 kids and maybe four made it.
	When you find out, oh, this isn't the wrath of the Lord that turns the sweet infant who I love more than anything into a red pustule before I watch it suffocate on itself.
	Yeah.
	Oh, wow.
	That's not punishment from a vengeful God, but it's a germ and I can get a vaccine for my child and I don't have to ever see any child do that ever again.
	Well, yeah, I don't think it's a coincidence, you know, that, you know, we talked about the actual history of Nye Bevan, you know, the guy who created the NHS, like half his siblings died in infancy, you know.
	You know?
	Like, he will have seen all that up close, and then we'll have seen the advent of vaccines, you know, in the early 1900s and everything, you know, and all of this stuff, you know, you're like, yeah, it makes sense why you'd want to make it.
	I mean, the thing is, it's incredible.
	I mean, it genuinely seems unbelievable.
	And I also understand why people didn't...
	I've been engaging with this particular type of news and reporting for a long time.
	So people are still coming to this because they're like, wow, the world seems fucked up.
	I don't think this is right.
	And you have to investigate to find out why you feel that way.
	Sure.
	So I try not to take that too much for granted, but the fact that I have seen this and I've seen these cycles happen over and over again, it is because I have learned so much about people's individual experiences within this kind of wider social understanding is that it's it is because I have learned so much about people's individual experiences within this kind of wider social
	Every tear that was shed for a mother and her child and a father who like, I mean, watching their children suffer and die every single parent.
	like, if ghosts were real, that's how I know ghosts aren't real.
	Because if they were, every single parent...
	Who watched their child die of rubella would be haunting this man and he'd never have a minute of sleep.
	Every single object in his home would be broken and smashed to bits.
	And that's how we know ghosts aren't real.
	Because they know what happened and they'd never...
	I mean, I can't imagine the anger I would...
	I've had the anger of seeing treatments that I don't have access to.
	Because I can't afford them or whatever.
	Or the doctor doesn't really want to bother with it.
	I know how angry I am and I didn't watch my infant die.
	It's such an affront and an insult to the suffering that people had to go through for millennia that we have fixed.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	It's just spitting in the face of every ancestor you have!
	Pretty much!
	Pretty much.
	Or, ghosts, prove me wrong, get to haunt.
	Yeah.
	Get to work.
	Paranormal activity.
	Great notes.
	He's already got you.
	Do it.
	Or, you know, ghosts, feel free to email him as well.
	He suggested that you do so.
	Yeah, humans should never put his email in any newsletter or any other irritating constant contact from an automated...
	AI nightmare.
	Never ever.
	Do not do that.
	Don't timestamp it either, Al.
	Don't you dare.
	Mysterious timestamp in the show notes.
	What's that about?
	Yeah, no idea.
	That's our show, everybody.
	If you want to support us in what we do, head to patreon.com slash onbrand.
	We would love to have you.
	If you want to get in touch, drop us an email.
	It's theonbrandpod at gmail.com and we will get back to you.
	If you're on Facebook, there's a Facebook group called On Brand Awakening Wonders and there's some wonderful people having lovely conversations over there.
	However, if you prefer more anonymous browsing, there is also a subreddit onbrand underscore pod and some wonderful humans over there too.
	And if you want to find us on socials, we're the onbrandpod everywhere except for where we're not.
	Look for the logo.
	And personal socials, I'm at AlworthOfficial, and Lauren is at made.by.lauren.b.
	And if you click the old link in the description, you can purchase a Magnetta!
	With actual real-life gold around it, Leif.
	Handmade by Lauren themselves.
	I make it out of trash.
	Yes.
	And otherwise, yeah, this will be how we leave you.
	Have merry, happy holidays.
	Magnets.
	Magnets, yes.
	They will not arrive in time for Christmas.
	That time has passed.
	Yes.
	But if you want to get real stuff in the real world and you're in Chicago or in St. Louis...
	Wolf Bait and B-Girls in Logan Square, Andersonville Galleria.
	I have been working myself ragged, happily, but ragged, to keep stocked.
	And also the Foundry in St. Charles has a bunch of new stuff.
	If you want to go get something, they can take care of you.
	Shipping time is done for me for now.
	IRL only.
	That's what we're doing.
	And thank you so much.
	Yeah, it'll be a couple weeks.
	Yes, yeah, yeah.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	And otherwise, have a merry, happy holiday and all that good stuff, everybody.
	And we'll be back with you on Boxing Day on the 26th, which I'm told you guys don't call it Boxing Day over there.
	No, but we're aware.
	Yeah, cool.
	And yeah, have a great time.
	Take breaks if you need them, everybody.
	Pull an Uncle Rick!
	Pull an Uncle Rick.
	Go lay in the family room and just on your back stare at the ceiling.
	Listen, what was old is new again.
	And just say like, Lauren said I gotta go do an Uncle Rick.
	And then leave it at that and come back whenever you feel like it.
	Yep, do what you gotta do.
	Alright, patrons, we'll see you Sunday for some off-brand goodness, but the rest of you will see you next week for the main show.
	Take care of yourselves and each other.
	Thank you very much for sticking with us.
	We love you.
	Bye!
	Phyllis Lathley's still dead.
	Bye!
	Yes, she is.
	That's not win-win-win.
	That's lie-lie-lie-lie-lie-lie-lie.

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