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Oct. 24, 2024 - On Brand

02:17:26

OB #82 - Tucker Carlson's Bizarre Concept of Christianity

Russell has a new Christianity-focused show for his Locals channel, and who better to speak with authority about Christianity than... Tucker Carlson? Support us on Patreon! Buy a magnet made by Lauren!

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	This is Propaganda Live.
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	Extraordinary cultural moment, already iconic, already iconic.
	We love you, you're welcome here.
	Where did this guy come from?
	It's like he's been doing it for ages, he's very confident.
	Plainly, and this is a matter now of fact and record, I'm right wing.
	I feel that Christ may have had a better vision.
	Is this misinformation or is Vivek Ramaswamy in the laboratory?
	That's sort of like a poem.
	Is this Eminem?
	Man, if we didn't come together in that stream, I think it was just the beat.
	Now, these are the kind of conversations, I think, that the legacy media can no longer compete with.
	Win, win, win, win, win, win, win.
	This is On Brand, a podcast where we discuss the ideas and antics of one Russell Brand.
	I'm Al Wirth, and each week I go through an episode of Brand's show with my co-host Lauren B. That's me, I'm Lauren B, and I'm the host that has no idea what we are getting into today, but it's usually bad.
	It's almost invariably bad, which is why we do the good thing before the bad thing.
	And Lauren, what is your good thing before the bad thing this week?
	Oh, let's see.
	So, since it's spooky season, it's getting very close to the witching day of the witching hour.
	Very fun.
	So we've been watching...
	The appropriate films for this month.
	And I had never seen the long-form TV movie version, I guess, of a series, I think, of Salem's Lot.
	And let's see.
	I mean, Poltergeist and obviously Texas Chainsaw Massacre.
	I have a confession I'm very surprised about.
	Like, very surprised about.
	Okay.
	I think Toby Hooper, like, this feels, like, cringe, like, this feels cringe to say, because he's a horror movie director mainly, not exclusively, but mainly.
	I think that Toby Hooper is one of my favorite directors.
	And that's weird.
	There was like a long time where I was like too highfalutin for caring about horror movies and I was disabused of that notion whenever I started this, you know, I started dating Mike and I was like, oh wait, these are really good and fun and it's fun to talk about, you know, like...
	There's a whole other side of horror.
	I wasn't really giving it a fair shake.
	I like the good ones, but I was kind of cranky about the rest of them.
	So it's a weird feeling to come out as being a big Toby Hooper fan.
	But the man just makes...
	Makes compelling things that I like.
	Yeah, no, that's fair.
	That's entirely fair.
	It's a weird thing to learn about myself this late in the game.
	That's good.
	That's good.
	That's fun.
	That's great.
	It's like, I don't know.
	It's very strange.
	I'm like getting used to this new identity for myself.
	As a Toby Hooper fan.
	I've learned this about myself.
	Yeah.
	Like, because everybody...
	See, we're learning all these things.
	I've gotten into baseball.
	You've gotten into Toby Hooper, right?
	It's...
	It's like I didn't know I was into...
	I was like, I'm here for what he's serving.
	And I just didn't know.
	And now I do.
	And I recommend highly, if you haven't seen The Old Salem's Lot, if you like the new one, that's great.
	I don't...
	Well, because the reason that the old one was being, like, recommended in our algorithms a lot is because there's, like, a new version.
	Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
	It's in theaters now, right?
	Well, yeah.
	I mean, it's on Mac, so, like, I think, I don't know if it was also in theaters, but it was on Mac.
	So, like, I'm so glad you get more stuff to enjoy if that's your cup of tea.
	I couldn't make it through the first...
	I think we made it maybe 15 minutes and we're like, nope.
	And so maybe if you are not inclined to like new remakes, I'm going to save you some effort.
	But if you like it, that's great.
	If you like it, that's great.
	But watching the old one Fuck, it was so good!
	It looks so good!
	It was...
	Yeah, I don't know.
	It's weird.
	I've been on this journey with really liking horror movies and enjoying the art of it all.
	But also being scared and grossed out is also very fun.
	It is, yeah.
	It can be both...
	Highbrow and lowbrow is kind of my steez.
	So, yeah.
	Yeah.
	Very cool.
	Toby Hooper.
	Hello.
	Yeah.
	Who knew?
	Anyway.
	Super cool.
	What's your good thing?
	My good thing is, so do you know the Warriors?
	Oh yeah.
	How to play EA? I assumed you would.
	From the movie.
	There was also a PS2 game, which is how I was introduced to it.
	And the game was fantastic.
	For anyone who doesn't know, vague kind of plot summary.
	There's a gang called the Warriors.
	They're framed for a crime they didn't commit, basically, and they have to make their way home across New York through a bunch of other gang's territories who are all looking to kill them.
	All of them are wearing kind of very interesting outfits.
	A little bit campy, a little bit cartoonish.
	It's a lot of fun.
	Anyway, in what is probably one of the least necessary pieces of art of all time, Lin-Manuel Miranda and Issa Davis, who is a Black female playwright and activist.
	They've made a concept album based on The Warriors.
	And it's fantastic.
	It features cameos from RZA, Busta Rhymes, Naz, Ghostface Killer, and Ms.
	Lauren Hill.
	But, like, there were a lot of elements about it that really surprised me.
	It's like they've made it So many times more diverse.
	It's much queerer.
	I know!
	I mean, overtly not queer.
	Covertly.
	Yes, exactly.
	Life is a cabaret, isn't it?
	This is much more overt.
	There are non-binary people.
	It's musically diverse.
	There's Latin music, K-pop, there's metal, there's all sorts going on, as well as hip-hop and pop and everything else.
	They gender-swapped the main gang, like the Warriors, so it's all black and Asian women now, which is great.
	And that has three effects, right?
	One, the gender of the love interest isn't changed, so it becomes a queer love story between Swan and Mercy, which I'm like, fantastic, great.
	And, like, in the original one, one of the warriors is basically a rapist who gets arrested for trying to force himself on a woman, which is a bleak moment in the film.
	And I don't think anyone's sorry to see him get arrested.
	However, in this version, the character Ajax, who is obviously now a woman, confronts a predator being a creep towards her, who then turns out to be an undercover cop.
	So it's essentially the NYPD entrapping a young black woman, and that's...
	And thirdly, and this was a moment of personal joy that I think you might appreciate, one of the gang's fairly obviously queer and flamboyant gang on roller skates, and the leader is played by Billy Porter, who just spends an entire verse roasting them all on their outfits.
	And I was like, this is delightful, this is fantastic.
	Sure.
	Sure.
	But yeah, in short, really great album.
	Really fun.
	Completely unnecessary, but really great.
	So an album, not...
	Okay.
	Yeah, no, it's not associated to any visual media.
	I don't think there are any plans for that at all.
	It's just an album, which is very interesting in and of itself.
	Sure.
	But no, it's really good, and I've really enjoyed it.
	So, yes.
	Yes.
	That's what I've seen.
	I've seen some things popping around.
	Okay.
	All right.
	That's what that is.
	All right.
	Yes.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Well, apparently Lin-Manuel Miranda saw the movie when he was four, and it had an effect.
	I'm like, yep, that's too young to see that movie.
	I would not be sure.
	Well, it's inescapable.
	That was...
	We just re-watched Gremlins, and I was like, I watched this as a child.
	Yeah.
	The amount of puppets shooting real guns!
	The gun count is so high!
	I was like, whoa!
	See, fun fact about Gremlins...
	They showed us crazy shit!
	For real!
	Fun fact about Gremlins for me, I hadn't seen the original Gremlins until I was in my mid-twenties, but I saw Gremlins 2 when I was about nine.
	Which is like...
	One of the weirdest films ever made.
	So fantastic in so many ways, but so bizarre.
	And yeah, it was definitely still too young for that movie.
	It's so violent!
	It's so violent!
	And like, so dark!
	And it just...
	I get also that they were doing cartoon violence, but like, it's...
	It really doesn't come across that way.
	Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Which is kind of awesome.
	I don't know.
	It's kind of awesome.
	I'm not mad about it.
	Honestly, I'm not mad, but I could not sleep.
	I mean, that was like nightmare fuel when I was a kid.
	That's fair.
	And the effects in those movies are effective as well.
	Yeah, gross.
	Completely.
	Great.
	Anyway.
	Really weird.
	Yeah, really enjoying the worries.
	They showed us insane shit.
	Yeah.
	Right, right.
	Yes, yes, they did.
	Inappropriate.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Yes, yeah.
	And that has led to this album coming out.
	Gotcha.
	Which, hey, really fun.
	Anyway, we have got a show to do.
	But first, let's thank a patron.
	This time, not a new patron, but someone who has upped their pledge.
	So, Scorpion the Bird, you are still an awakening wonder.
	You are indeed an awakening wonder.
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	Much appreciated, and give that bird a cuddle for us, because it is, in fact, a bird named Scorpion.
	What a good bird.
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	Head to patreon.com slash...
	On brand, and you will have our eternal gratitude.
	It is this which allows us to be editorially independent and ad-free.
	And as a patron, you will also get a shout-out on the show and access to our patron-only after-show off-brand.
	And this week, we took a little look at Russell's Locals channel, specifically dissecting a Bible reading, a meditation, some Q&As he did with his audience, and his final stand-up comedy breakdown in which he covered his own stand-up comedy from 2013.
	The whole thing was revealing in a number of ways.
	Don't show me a better movie in your movie.
	Don't show me a better movie in your movie.
	I'll stop watching your movie and go watch that movie.
	Don't remind me of content that's better than your content in the middle of your content.
	Yeah, it's worse when it's your own content that is better than your own current content.
	The long explanation of that, I feel like you can fill in the blanks.
	Yep.
	But that has been, like, I have been harping on this idea for about, I'd say, two-ish years now.
	I've been just, like, seeing, like, I can't deal with this.
	I mean, Salem's Lot, that's what happened.
	Like, we're watching this remake, I'm like...
	Maybe could we just watch the first one?
	Yeah.
	Because there's, like, another one that I haven't seen yet.
	And, like, maybe let's just do that.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	And you are confronted with the question.
	But you get the long version.
	Yeah.
	You get the long version and off-brand.
	Why would I watch current Russell when 2013 Russell is clearly better?
	You know, like, it's...
	Still issues, but clearly better.
	Sure, sure.
	But yeah, so the long version is an off-brand, but the short version that I'm sure you can at least understand is like, don't show a better movie in your movie.
	No, no.
	But hey, we had a lot of fun with it.
	So head to patreon.com slash onbrand to check out that and the many, many hours of content up there.
	And please note that while you can easily listen to our audio version anywhere, you can find podcasts.
	You can also watch us on YouTube, or if you're listening to Spotify app, the video will come up there too.
	Now, I mentioned those things that we covered in the off-brand specifically because they're the final ones, right?
	Russell is revamping the Locals channel and getting rid of the Q&As, getting rid of the Bible readings, and getting rid of the stand-up comedy breakdowns.
	The meditations are staying, but the rest of it is all going.
	And I mentioned I knew some of what would be replacing all of that stuff, and that is what we'll be taking a look at today.
	piece of content.
	So I'll take this moment to remind everyone that Russell has invited journalists to go behind the paywall of the Locals channel to look at the content there.
	And we might not be journalists, but probably close enough for this bullshit.
	Okay.
	We're not journalists.
	End of thought.
	No, we're definitely not journalists.
	We're enthusiasts and lookers.
	Yes, indeed.
	Before we take a look at that, however, I wanted to highlight something else that's appeared on Russell's Locals channel, which is a goal of how many members they're aiming for with a percentage count of how far they've gotten.
	So the current goal is to reach 10,000 members, and they're supposedly at 73%, which means Russell has roughly 7,300 members of his Locals channel, each paying a minimum of $60 a year.
	The monthly payment is a couple of dollars a month more expensive, so that's a variable.
	But based on the minimum, Russell is currently earning at least $438,000 a year from the Locals channel alone, likely closer to half a million dollars, given some of those users must be paying monthly.
	And then, you know, you factor in advertising payouts, affiliate deals, whatever deal he has with Rumble, who knows about that one, and live events where he's getting paid an absolute fortune, so to speak, and his annual income quickly escalates into the millions without even factoring in potential outside funding from mysterious unknown sources.
	Yeah, that's what I'm hearing.
	Mm-mm.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Or even like the more legitimate forms of income that he'll have, like residuals he'll be getting from acting gigs over the years.
	You know, I'm sure he still gets Minions money and that side of things, if he is in any way sensible.
	Again, Russell is among the 0.01% richest people in the world, and he's actively lying to his audience for money to stay among that class.
	But he's not alone.
	And in this special segment that we're going to be covering, Russell is bringing to his local channel.
	It includes a conversation with another immensely wealthy individual who lies for money.
	So let's see who it is.
	Taka, thanks for joining me for the first inaugural Break Bread with Russell Brand.
	Oh, I love that.
	We're going to talk about our faith in our Lord Jesus, and we'll start with, if it's all right with you, by breaking bread, for didn't our Lord say, do this in remembrance of me?
	Thank you.
	And we'll remember him.
	This is my body, he said.
	With the bread.
	And this is grape juice, because obviously neither you and I will ever be drinking wine again.
	I'm not denying the miracle at Cana, but I'm happy with the grape juice.
	And this is his blood.
	Thank you.
	Amen.
	Weird.
	I will never not find that weird.
	And cannibalistic.
	So, what we have here is the very first installment of Break Bread with Russell Brand, with Tucker Carlson as the first guest.
	Essentially, the revamp of the Locals channel is going to be doubling down on the Christianity.
	And to me, this has two obvious side effects.
	Firstly, Russell can make his main Rumble channel far more streamlined and keep it more to the political side, which I am Awful.
	I have been getting whiplash from conversations about Ukraine funding to suddenly interviewing a bishop.
	And on a personal note, you know, while the Christianity side of Russell is definitely something to track and very relevant, I care far, far less about it compared to the immediate political impact he's having and the harms that can and will cause in the world.
	The other side effect of this is that by getting his paid subscribers who are already more fanatical about him than the average viewer to digest purely Russell-centric Christianity content, it's going to be way easier to cement them into what will potentially eventually be a cult.
	That is exactly the point that I was making when I was off-brand.
	I was like, oh, over and over.
	I'm like, oh, these are all textbook signs of a cult.
	Like, this is how you start a cult.
	It's how we were talking about...
	Yeah, what we were talking about, like...
	Yeah, a couple days ago.
	Like, oh, this is like the textbook shortlist, not like the obscure stuff.
	This is like, oh, this is how you make a cult.
	You take the religion, you tweak a couple of...
	Rules, and then a couple more rules, and then a couple more rules until you have a group of people that are, like, entirely dependent on you.
	Yep.
	Yep.
	It all feels like it's going in a very specific direction.
	Yeah.
	Anyway, let's- But I don't think he's got enough people on board.
	I don't know.
	Not yet!
	Not yet!
	Yeah, it's growing.
	It's growing.
	This is weird.
	He's broken over two million on Rumble now, so he's getting there.
	Well, the public display of recording, I don't know.
	And I mean, maybe this is just my understanding of communion, right?
	Because what we just watched, the video we just watched and listened to, for people that aren't watching the video...
	Is Tucker Carlson and...
	Also, do you like how beaten down I am now that I don't even care?
	I'm like, any guest, whatever.
	This is all.
	I don't care.
	I'm just taking it as it comes.
	But yeah, so it's Tucker Carlson and Russell, and they ate some crackers and had some grape juice.
	They took communion together on two black couches in this...
	It's clearly in a green room somewhere.
	And that's like, again, not really part of it.
	It's not supposed to be this performance.
	I mean, I guess they'd have a midnight mass on Christmas Eve from like the big Catholic church where everybody, but that's like, it's just part of the mass is everybody going and taking communion, which is still a little weird, but it was also mesmerizing.
	So we definitely always watched it.
	But like, all this stuff is so pretty in there.
	The building and like all the robes and stuff was like so cool.
	But yeah, I don't know.
	This is a weird performance.
	Like, I don't...
	I've had to engage with a lot of...
	Russell, you know, like having to look into kind of what, you know, for off brands and stuff for the show.
	And I don't think they're doing it on camera 'cause it's not supposed to be a monetized performance.
	It's supposed to be like, there's like rules about who should take communion when.
	I mean, Protestants, they're very loose.
	So maybe, again, this is towards the Anglican argument versus the Catholic one, but like...
	This is weird.
	This is weird.
	Yeah.
	None of it feels like they're doing it right, you know?
	Yeah.
	It feels like cosplay.
	And, like, Christians do not like that.
	No.
	No.
	They want the drama, but you've got to mean it.
	Like...
	Yeah, you can't just kind of co-opt the thing in what seems like a very performative kind of way.
	It feels like it's crossed the line into satire, because this feels like a joke.
	I feel like I'm being pranked.
	Yeah, that's fair.
	It's weird.
	In that way.
	I mean, a lot of people take communion, like, whatever.
	But this is like, I don't think this is in the rules.
	I don't know.
	I really don't.
	Doesn't seem right to me.
	I mean, I know we have some Christian listeners.
	Feel free to weigh in, anyone.
	But yeah, it doesn't feel right to me at all.
	Anyway, let's hear the first question of sorts of this little interview, getting into what brought Tucker to Christianity.
	But in our conversations in private, we've talked a lot about Jesus and we've prayed together.
	And since I've been baptized, since being chosen, since coming to faith, I've noticed that I find it harder and harder to engage in anything else.
	I've had so many obsessions, so many compulsions in my life.
	I wonder how you are dealing with what appears to be a comparable transition.
	It certainly seems that something has changed in you lately.
	I've been watching your tour a lot, the way you talk about Jesus and even our conversations.
	You were reading the Bible, I figure, when he goes, I'm reading it for the first time.
	I just wondered if you could tell us about that transformation.
	Well, I mean, it was not intentional at all.
	And I should just say at the outset, I know nothing about theology, and I don't think I'm ever going to learn.
	There's something about it that bothers me.
	I just want to go with where I'm led.
	And so I didn't set out to read the Bible or become...
	More religious or anything like that.
	I just felt this internal pull in that direction and I followed it.
	And that's where I remain to this day.
	But I will say this, you can't understand what's happening in the world right now in political or secular terms because it doesn't make sense at all.
	I still don't understand a lot of it, but I know for a fact that the only framework that...
	Makes any sense is a spiritual one.
	Yeah, but I feel like my life has changed dramatically in the last couple of years.
	The problem that I have, the last thing I'll say, is that I have an acute sense of what a rotten person I am and have been.
	And I'm not just saying that as false humility.
	I really mean it.
	And so the last thing I want to do is be associated with Christianity because I... I don't want to discredit it.
	And I have noticed that when people, you know, stand up in public and say, you know, I'm Jesus' representative on the scene, I'm the, you know, the Christian ambassador, they immediately get attacked spiritually.
	They do something horrible.
	They become Jim and Tammy Faye Baker and they discredit the whole program.
	And I just don't want that at all.
	So I just want to say in every sentence, I'm not here on behalf of Jesus.
	I'm not a Christian representative, not a great person.
	That's pretty obvious.
	And so I just want to say that again and again.
	Then you'd stop talking.
	Then you leave!
	Yeah, I mean, he doesn't want to be associated with Christianity.
	He's not a very great person.
	You know, he doesn't want to be a representative of Christianity, and yet he's here having this conversation.
	I mean, he's not a great person.
	I will say that's very, very true.
	I do find it very interesting that he's sitting opposite Russell, who is very much trying to be a representative of Christianity with some degree of success.
	And Tucker is there saying, yeah, I don't want to be a representative of Christianity, seemingly because he doesn't want that level of scrutiny, and because Jim and Tammy Faye Baker were spiritually attacked for being representatives of Christianity, and somehow that's why Jim Baker is a piece of shit.
	It's almost like he flew too close to the sun kind of thing.
	He does bring it up again later, but that's the thesis.
	Well, here's what's crazy and coming at me sideways.
	I am in a room with three individuals who probably know the least about Christianity in the world.
	You weren't raised around it.
	You come by it honestly.
	You just don't know because you have no reason to.
	You are also not representing yourself as a person.
	Who knows anything about it?
	Or is a Christian?
	You aren't talking about that part.
	You are representing your honest...
	I was raised atheist.
	I did not engage with it.
	You are consistently shocked at things that are very normal to me as someone who was raised in a very religious nation.
	And that's honest.
	So...
	It would be as honest for you to sit down with no preparation and no further education whatsoever with another idiot who's sitting down with an idiot to talk about Christianity.
	You are as equipped.
	I'm shocked at how little...
	Russell has absorbed?
	Frogen slip.
	I don't know.
	The other two guys that I'm looking at know the least about Christianity of anyone I can think of.
	Mm-hmm.
	Mm-hmm.
	So fundamentally do not understand it.
	And like giving this caveat of like, I don't know what I'm talking about.
	The next thing is, so I'm going to stop.
	And anything that they say that is not the next thing that's going to come out of my mouth is like, well, I'm going to stop talking is dis-fucking-honest.
	This is crazy.
	Yeah.
	Boy, let's burn some time.
	Let's burn some of my precious life force on this, because they have no clue what they're talking about.
	Yeah, and I will say I have at least read the book.
	It was a while ago, but I did read the thing cover to cover.
	So that's more than can be said for Russell, actually.
	Yeah, and how much of it sticks.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, not a lot!
	Yeah, right?
	There are some broad points, but...
	That's a big book.
	I couldn't make it anywhere near through the whole thing, and we had several programs to get through it in a year, or more, or whatever.
	Big sections of it.
	Yeah, big sections of it are just a really, really tough read, you know?
	Especially in the Old Testament, which makes up most of the book, you know?
	There's a lot of this...
	So other than all that, Tucker also just said, you know, which she picked up, you know, you can't understand what's happening in the world in political or secular terms whatsoever.
	The only framework that makes any sense is a spiritual one.
	And now, perhaps I'm getting ahead of myself because I have seen this whole thing, but to me, that all sounds just like a terrific and speedy way to completely write off and ignore the opinions of anyone who isn't a Christian.
	Like, oh, of course you think trans people are people!
	You aren't viewing this in spiritual terms!
	And even then, if you're Christian and don't agree with him, maybe you're not Christian-ing right.
	There's always an out.
	There is always an out.
	Yeah, I'd ask again, any what I'm looking at.
	Point to the part of the book that you think applies in this particular situation.
	Point to the part of the dogma that you think applies.
	Oh, is it just vibes?
	Okay.
	That's...
	This is...
	Does feel like a lot of vibes in this room!
	Did reading the Bible make...
	Did Christianity make more sense?
	Or less sense?
	If you read the whole Bible?
	Yeah, I mean, I gotta say, the bit about, you know, like, 900-year-old dudes and stuff, you know, there was a lot of it that was very confusing to me.
	So, you know...
	Oh, Methuselah's fine!
	That's like a fun thing to know about.
	I'm saying the whole Bible, like, if you read the whole Bible, did Christianity make more or less sense after reading the whole book?
	Definitely less.
	Yeah, definitely less.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	That's my point.
	Yeah, yeah.
	From broad narrative to tiny details, definitely, definitely less to me.
	Everyone's different, but I struggled.
	Anyway, Russell is surprised that Tucker felt the need to give this little disclaimer here at the beginning.
	And eventually, in a roundabout way, we get to what Tucker Carlson thinks a Christian is.
	It's strange that you feel the need even to offer that clarification when it's so explicit within Christianity that our fallen nature is what he loves about us, that it's a kingdom not for saints but for sinners.
	The proclamation of heaven is centered on that it's For broken people, for those of us that can't kind of cope here.
	But you're right to acknowledge that sense that there is a tension that suddenly, because I suppose there must be so much piety and demonstrative Christianity, as much as like when I last did your show and you asked me to pray because we prayed prior and I did because I would love to pray.
	I've seen that there's been a lot of attention and a lot of people have talked to me about that.
	But in particular, people that I've known from when I was more aligned with the culture, I've noticed fizzing with sort of ferocity, vehement condemnation.
	I felt like if they could stop you being Christian, they would stop you being Christian.
	100%.
	What is it, do you think?
	Well, I mean, it's purely spiritual.
	Because, again, this is one of the things that makes no sense in human terms.
	Why would you be against Christians?
	It's the world's only turn-your-other-cheek religion that commands people to be faithful to their wives and, you know, work hard, be good citizens, obey temporal authority.
	I'm sorry?
	Everything about Christians.
	Some countries, I can think of one Middle Eastern Muslim country, for example, that they want more Christians to move there because they're great citizens.
	So why would you be against Christians?
	Because, you know, you're representing the other team, is the truth.
	I mean, there's no other explanation for it.
	I mean, have you ever been mugged by a Christian?
	No, no one ever has been mugged by a Christian, ever.
	They pay their taxes, they're good neighbors, they tend to mow their lawns.
	Like, what, they're not sleeping with your wife?
	Like, how could you be against Christians?
	Oh!
	I can't speak to thievery, but adultery in the church I grew up in.
	The Atkins diet was wild, everybody.
	Lots of sausage.
	Sorry.
	Bunch of gals got skinny and everyone got a little wild for a summer.
	Yeah.
	What?
	Sure.
	Yeah, no one's ever been mugged by a Christian and no Christian has ever slept with someone else's wife.
	Oh, God.
	Yeah, that made me laugh the first time.
	It made me laugh this time as well.
	It's an amazing thing to say.
	Now, obviously.
	Obviously, I can list off countless cases of Christians committing crimes, not paying their taxes.
	He mentioned, you know, probably mowing their lawns.
	There are plenty who probably don't mow their lawns.
	And, you know, Christians philandering about the place and sleeping with other people's wives.
	It's not hard.
	It turns out these people are humans and sometimes do shitty things.
	Obviously, Tucker's conception of a Christian is apparently someone who follows the rules perfectly and is also invested in decent lawn care.
	It's worth noting that most biblical rules are quite a lot easier for Tucker to follow, given that he's an incredibly wealthy white man with time and opportunity essentially bending to his will.
	No, because coveting and greed are really big things.
	Big problems that these guys just ignore.
	They're actually...
	Major issues in the book and the religion itself up until very recently when prosperity gospel came along.
	Those were like big problems.
	So no, he's actually got some major issues on his hands as far as the way he lives and what he does.
	I don't disagree, and he does bring up the money-worshipping side of things in a little bit, actually.
	But yeah, I also suspect that Tucker Carlson has never been in a position of having to commit a crime in order to feed his children, you know, in that kind of moral quandary that perhaps some Christians have faced, just as an example.
	That's also a gray area.
	That's the thing.
	That's why the greed and the coveting is bad, because it's in your heart.
	It's not a material necessity.
	Because it's also a sin to hoard your wealth.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
	And underneath all this, he just made the claim that Christianity is superior to all other religions because of the turn your other cheek aspect, as well as being the only religion that suggests men be faithful to their wives and work hard and be good citizens because of an atemporal authority.
	Yeah.
	And I can think of quite a few others that achieve all of those things, and I'm sure Tucker can too, actually.
	But none of those other ones advance the very specific kind of white Christian nationalism Tucker Carlson is really on board with.
	And when you add into the equation that most Christian countries are full of white people, the idea that anyone who's against Christians is working for the other team, as he said, or to speak more plainly, Is satanic.
	Essentially the conclusion that's arrived at is anyone of another religion, usually those from countries with lots of brown people in them, is working for Satan.
	Okay.
	Part of this tracks.
	At least part of this tracks.
	Let me tell you what sucked about that clip.
	You know how many times we have wanted people to ask Russell why?
	And the only person we've seen do it is Tucker.
	And now we know what happens.
	Russell ignores it.
	I wanted to know why too, Tucker.
	Good instinct.
	Something rubbed off on you doing the quote-unquote news end quote for a number of years.
	Why?
	Why do you say that?
	And Russell's just...
	Keeps on talking, doesn't amend, doesn't change a script one fucking bit, regardless of the other person talking to him and asking why or pointing anything out.
	Cool.
	Great.
	Sight.
	Sick.
	He's been at this too long.
	Now we know.
	Now we know what happened.
	That's what happens when you ask why.
	Now we know.
	Yes, yeah.
	Also, small aside, but not for nothing, I've known both a Muslim and a Sikh in my life that were fanatical about lawn care, Tucker.
	Like, these people were a whisper away from starting to sell propane and propane accessories, you know.
	It's not just Christians mowing their lawns, is what I'm saying.
	Sure.
	And to not let it go unaddressed, the people are mad at you, Russell.
	Like, the reason people are mad at you is because of your performative Christianity.
	It's not that you're a Christian, it's that you're constantly praying on stages for attention.
	Like, and other than directly contradicting the book you're supposed to be into, it's also just really fucking annoying.
	Like, it's very irritating.
	You know?
	Well, it's just the wrong thing to do.
	Yeah.
	Like, according to the book.
	It's annoying.
	It's hypocritical.
	Well, I noticed this.
	He said something about, like, he's like, yeah, I'm going to do this communion thing.
	And I just want to put this out there.
	Food for thought.
	And he also addressed his, like, obsessions and compulsions that he has that he struggles with.
	Now, what have we seen him do?
	Now, he's performing the rituals.
	The rituals are where you get the emotional hit.
	Like, you want the emotional hit, which also that's what you get if you have trained yourself through meditation, which, like...
	No shade on meditation whatsoever.
	But I think what Russell gets out of it is this kind of self-talk edification loop.
	He's keeping the meditations.
	He's here for the meditations, right?
	So that's prayer, same diff, I think, in this scenario.
	You went the way he does it, yeah.
	He keeps reproducing the dramatic experiences, like the dramatic emotional experiences that he wants to get.
	He wants to feel those emotionally manipulative highs.
	He wants to get that dopamine hit of...
	Like, he doesn't want to wait for communion once a week or once a month or whatever.
	He wants to do it on the show.
	Like, I don't think he understands that if he does it a lot, it's going to water down that, like, emotional hit that, like, Christianity doesn't really offer a lot of, like...
	Spiritual kind of trance states that give you an emotional boost, an adrenaline hit, right?
	Usually when people get baptized, they don't do any other baptisms again for years and years and years.
	And those aren't emotional.
	There isn't an elation necessarily when you do it.
	He keeps wanting to do the rituals that made him feel good.
	Because he wants that emotional hit, so he's going to keep doing it.
	He wants to have the trance, prayer moment.
	We made a joke on, you know, in that lovely interview that we did with Rob that, like, Russell, like, oh, Russell isn't going to start, like, snake handling, is he?
	And speaking in tongues?
	Maybe.
	That's the end of the road he's going down.
	Yeah, this is it.
	If he's chasing the dragon, you know, if that's, you know.
	That's where we're going.
	It could be.
	Pentecostal is where you get that dramatic emotional hit on Sunday and Wednesday.
	Like that's because it's these kind of like, you know, like the physical experiences, the like physical manifestations of this emotional, like this when you feel the presence of the Lord, right?
	Like you are having an emotional response that is like this like group emotional response.
	So, yeah, like, he wants to keep taking, if he thinks he can, like, keep taking communion, to commune harder.
	Yeah, yeah.
	He'll keep getting that hit and keep baptizing, because that baptism feels so good.
	That's not...
	For it to actually kind of have an impact, because as we explored in the off-brand, you know, a lot of this stuff isn't working for him very well.
	You know, he's struggling with embracing the Christianity.
	You know, he...
	He needs something to provide the juice, you know?
	So it wouldn't shock me if we end up going down that road at this point.
	Yeah, he was cosplaying in religions that had a lot more fun, exciting activities that gave him that kind of feeling.
	And I don't think he's going to find it.
	Sorry!
	It's not going well so far.
	That seems to be where we're at.
	We learned that in youth group when we were kids.
	It's because you go to centrifuge.
	You go to camp and you have that experience and you've got to ride that for a long time there, boss.
	You don't get to have that experience all the time.
	That's how they get you.
	They get you with the fun stuff and then you get a show for the boring shit.
	Sorry.
	Yeah, there seem to be problems.
	Anyway, Tucker isn't quite done with this thought of his.
	Unless you are against Jesus.
	And why would you be against Jesus?
	This is a guy who didn't actually try to overthrow Rome.
	He allowed them to torture him to death.
	Like, why is that a threat to you?
	Seriously, how could that possibly be a threat?
	How could opposing abortion?
	If someone's like, well, I'm going to blow up abortion.
	I get it.
	That's a threat.
	That's violence.
	But if someone stands up and says, you know, I actually think it's wrong.
	Okay.
	Maybe we disagree.
	I mean, why is that so threatening to you?
	I don't understand it.
	It's so revealing, though, of the nature of the conflict, which is spiritual, and it's revealing of the stakes, which are eternal.
	These are really big.
	This is really a big deal, these conversations that we're having, much bigger than the debates we used to have about tax rates.
	You know what I mean?
	Yeah.
	Yeah, those are two different things.
	And plenty of people were having debates about abortion when you were debating tax rates on Crossfire, Tucker.
	As for why...
	He wasn't doing that either, by the way.
	No, no.
	He doesn't give a flying fuck about policy.
	No, he does not.
	As for why rich white men loudly opposing reproductive rights for women is a threat, Lauren led an off-brand on the state of reproductive rights in the US not that long ago, and the situation is fucking bleak.
	It's getting worse.
	It's getting worse.
	Tens of thousands of women having forced pregnancies, thousands of women bleeding out in hospitals because doctors refuse to help them because if they do and the baby dies, they'll be sent to prison.
	Like, that is a direct product of rich white men loudly opposing reproductive rights for women, both financially and politically.
	Don't ask me how it's a threat when it's literally killing people right now, you know?
	It's like, it's genuinely, like, yes, and it's...
	Up until, basically, Jerry Falwell had that epiphany and wanted to push the religious right into politics.
	Up until that point...
	Christianity understood that, listen, and I don't agree, but if Christianity moved you to not want to get an abortion yourself, Catholicism was kind of only big on this for a long time.
	If that's how you feel, even the book, the rules of the book say, okay, well then you don't make that choice for yourself.
	other people to believe what you believe, especially in a country that was founded on the concept of separation between church and state.
	This is literally what they were avoiding, is to not be able to impose your religious doctrine in policy with the government.
	If you want to make that choice, that's up to you.
	What's crazy is, like, there's all these, you know, there's, like, news guys and just pundits, like, normal, like, people that don't even necessarily have, like, they're not activists, they don't have, you know, like, it's not their platform to fight for abortion, are like, my mom would have died.
	if she didn't have these procedures that are like routine.
	It's a routine healthcare procedure because pregnancy is dangerous.
	And you need to take steps to protect everyone involved like the whole time.
	So the fact that the culture war has gotten to this point is so far removed from religion.
	It's so removed from any of that shit.
	But religion has been used as a wedge and a tool to get where we are.
	Yep.
	Very effectively.
	But worship the fucking founding fathers, too.
	Great.
	Don't listen to anything they said, but worship them like deities.
	Because they love that.
	No, they...
	Regardless of how problematic egos they had, they were not going for that.
	That's not what they said.
	That's not what they wanted.
	Nope.
	Nope.
	Jesus.
	Definitely, definitely wasn't.
	And yeah, speaking of Jesus, yeah, do you think in that book Jesus didn't know what the effect of him getting killed on the cross was going to be, you know?
	Like...
	Well, I think he meant like, who's afraid of Jesus?
	Like, that's like, which I would point out, well, then you should be really stoked about Muslim people because Jesus is included in their religion.
	That's part of their religion, is Jesus.
	So should you be super psyched on Muslims also?
	Yeah.
	It doesn't seem to be.
	Yeah, it doesn't seem to be.
	That is, that blows my fucking mind.
	It blows my mind.
	Like, no, they're actually big fans of Jesus.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Yeah, no problems.
	It's in the book.
	It's in their book.
	Yes, yeah, yeah.
	So from here, Russell and Tucker, they start to talk about globalism and secularism before getting to the subject of political realignment.
	And one of the amazing and super cool things that I'm noticing is that people in the United States, I can only speak to American politics on the right, which is where I'm from, but they're reassessing a lot of their previous assumptions, which were really evil.
	One was, you know, a lot of them were violence worshippers, including me, and two, a lot of them were money worshippers, including me.
	And that's bad.
	That's just bad.
	That doesn't make you happy.
	You wind up hurting other people.
	There's just this incredible realignment of politics into two camps, each one standing for the mirror image of the other, whether they know it or not.
	And I'm glad because it's all very obvious.
	Like, we know what we're dealing with now.
	Hmm, okay.
	Again, if you're viewing everything in a biblical sense, you know, you can come to a binary system of good and evil, much like what Jordan Peterson was presenting last week.
	And if, you know, suddenly, like Tuck is saying, everyone's dividing into two camps and one is the mirror image of the other, it becomes very clear that the implication is that his camp is the good camp and the other camp is the evil camp.
	Also, nice to know he's repenting on his previous Warhawk stance with Iraq and apparently repenting for his money worshipping.
	Curiously, I don't see him donating a bunch of his money to charity or to churches even or anything like that.
	In fact, I mostly see him raking in absolute bucket loads of money while already having inherited like half a billion dollars when he was young.
	You know, I'm seeing a lot of words from this Tucker guy and not a lot of actions to back it up.
	You know what I'm saying?
	If it was newspapers, he'd be a hoarder.
	Why is it different that he has money he will never ever even be able to use?
	If he has too much, why does he have it?
	Yeah, yeah, just like a pasty alt-right dragon, you know, just sitting on his gold and like, oh yeah, this is good, this is good.
	You know?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	Holding it all together.
	Yeah.
	Also, who gives a shit if you're repenting from anything?
	No, you were part of the problem and you got a lot more work to do than just being like, I'm a dove, kinda.
	Because that's all of their fucking quotes, not just his.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	No, you're not.
	It's not enough to be like, this is bad!
	Like, you're still doing it, dude.
	Did you not read the bit about, you know, camel through the eye of a needle, rich man into heaven?
	That whole thing, you know?
	That's the other part of repenting, is stopping doing it.
	Stop hoarding.
	And also stop profiting off of the war machine, which is exactly what he's still doing.
	Because he wasn't going to go over there and shoot a gun or drive a tank.
	What he was doing was profiting off of A war.
	And he did it the best way he could.
	And that's the same thing he's doing now.
	So it's the same old sin with a different location.
	And this is not special or new for Tucker.
	And if he actually felt bad about any of it, he'd fucking stop.
	He'd take a second, think about it, and not continue to say incendiary things.
	Because sorry, if you're saying shit that costs you nothing after the fact when it would have cost you something at the time, I don't care.
	I don't care.
	I don't care.
	Do the right thing now.
	Oh, you still aren't?
	Then I don't give a shit.
	You can say you repent.
	Did you learn the lesson?
	No, because of your current behavior?
	Well, then shut the fuck up.
	I don't buy it.
	It's not.
	That's not how this works.
	Same applies to Russell.
	Yes!
	Absolutely!
	Don't wear your fucking underwear in the baptism picture that everybody has to look at!
	You fucking creep!
	Yep!
	Okay, so next we see an attempt to redefine what Christian nationalism is, or whether it even exists at all!
	I think a lot, and perhaps you can generally help this, you know that they say with lawyers you never should ask a question unless you know the answer to it, but thankfully I'm not a lawyer, although I could save a lot of money if I was one.
	- I'm sure you could. - Do you feel that in a sense there is a contradiction in the phrase Christian nationalism That to be truly Christian means that above all else you love Christ and above all else we are all Christ's family and above all else we are one family and we yield to no authority but Christ.
	And I wonder what challenges that provides us when it comes to something like patriotism, say.
	So I think Christianity, I don't think I know, is unique among The dominant religions in this country in that it's a universal religion.
	The idea of Christianity is everyone's created by God.
	Everyone can have a direct relationship with God through Jesus.
	Everybody, no matter where you're from, what you look like, that accounts for the Christian concern for all people everywhere because every person has the spark of God inside him.
	I think that's true, objectively true.
	It's one of my favorite things about our religion.
	You're right.
	That's incompatible with the idea that only people in my country matter.
	I think in the United States, nationalism is a way of expressing the following idea, that the purpose of government is to serve the people it represents, period.
	And our leaders have a duty to represent us because we own this government.
	It belongs to us.
	They are not appointed by God to run this government.
	We're not...
	They're tenants.
	They're not our landlords.
	We're the owners.
	They're our employees.
	And their decisions have to benefit us and our children.
	That's, I think, what people mean when they say nationalism or America first.
	They mean the people rule.
	That's like the opposite.
	Yeah, the America First thing is definitely a little different.
	Also, the book you apparently like says that governments are as God intended them to be and you should obey them.
	I'm not sure about that one.
	But it doesn't matter because the aim of this question and answer is to deny Christian nationalism is even a thing.
	Right.
	So first up, the things that Tucker supposedly loves about Christianity apply to a lot of other theologies.
	If you extract the specific Jesus part, you can replace Christianity with any of the Abrahamic religions, and it'll still be functionally the same thing that Tucker is talking about here.
	And a lot of the ideas he's mentioning go way further back than that.
	You know, everyone having one creator, everyone being able to have a direct relationship with the deity, you know, no matter who they are and where they're from.
	Like, these are not new ideas, and they are certainly not exclusive or unique to Christianity.
	As for these ideas being incompatible with nationalism, the Bible does have some fun parts about destroying any government that isn't Christian and any peoples who are not Christian.
	And when you start to imprint those ideas onto nations and nationalities, Christian nationalism starts to make a lot of sense.
	Like, aha, the US is a Christian nation and therefore good, while Iran, for instance, is not a Christian nation and therefore bad.
	You know, it's those bits that partly led to, you know, the Crusades.
	To be clear, I'm gonna read a definition And for fun, I'm going to read the definition from ChristianityToday.com, which one could assume is biased in favor of Christianity.
	Quote, Christian nationalism is the belief that the American nation is defined by Christianity and that the government should take active steps to keep it that way.
	Popularly, Christian nationalists assert that America is and must remain a Christian nation, not merely as an observation about American history, but as a prescriptive program for what America must continue to be in the future.
	Scholars like Samuel Huntington have made a similar argument that America is defined by its Anglo-Protestant past and that we will lose our identity and our freedom if we do not preserve our cultural inheritance.
	Christian nationalists do not reject the First Amendment and do not advocate for theocracy, pin in that, but they do believe that Christianity should enjoy a privileged position in the public square.
	The term Christian nationalism is relatively new, and its advocates generally do not use it of themselves, but it accurately describes American nationalists who believe American identity is inextricable from Christianity.
	And to skip ahead a little bit, Christian nationalists want to define America as a Christian nation, and they want the government to promote a specific cultural template as the official culture of the country.
	Some have advocated for an amendment to the Constitution to recognize America's Christian heritage, others to reinstitute prayer in public schools.
	Some work to enshrine a Christian nationalist interpretation of American history in school curricula, including that America has a special relationship with God or has been chosen by him to carry out a special mission on Earth.
	Others advocate for immigration restrictions, specifically to prevent a change to American religious and ethnic demographics or a change to American culture.
	Some want to empower the government to take stronger action to circumscribe immoral behavior.
	Now, that last part sounds a lot like advocating for Christian theocracy to me, but I feel like perhaps ChristianToday.com didn't necessarily want to upset its reader base more than it was already about to, as the article itself is firmly against Christian nationalism.
	Yeah, well, I mean, technically, a theocracy would be that the head of the church is also the head of the state.
	So technically, that's not what they're asking for.
	On the most specific interpretation, yeah, I guess.
	If they're trying to define the term, that's not what they're asking for, but what they're saying is, like, just because they aren't asking specifically for a theocracy...
	They're not asking for a poppa.
	Like, doesn't mean that.
	Like, I think it's, I think it might be, depending on who's reading it and who's looking at it, right?
	But like, I think it's a good idea to put that in there because it is an easy way to deflect the Christian nationalism kind of accusation.
	It's like, well, we don't want, like, we still want a president.
	We still want a government.
	Mm-hmm.
	Mm-hmm.
	But specifically, like, what you want in a theocracy is that the church is in charge, but technically a theocracy would be that the head of the church is also head of state.
	Right, right, right.
	So that's a get-out-of-jail-free, that's like a semantic argument thing that they could say to be like, no, we don't want a theocracy.
	Like, you really do, but not in name.
	Right, right, exactly.
	Yeah, yeah, right.
	Because, you know, what the article describes is exactly the project that Russell and Tucker have been aiming for, with Russell explicitly advocating for Christian theocracy on a weekly basis.
	You know, that's exactly the thing.
	So, Tucker and Russell are just lying here to obfuscate the idea that Christian nationalism even exists, and honestly, they're doing a pitiful job of it.
	I'm going to say this is some weak tea, and there are a few things a British person hates more than weak tea.
	This is what I'm saying.
	These guys know the least about Christianity.
	You are in over your head.
	You are out of your depth.
	Do not do this!
	You said, like, any even, like, I mean, the amount, I don't know, I think they're overshooting the cognitive dissonance of their listeners unless they, like, are really cooked.
	Like, because any regular Christian walking around is not going to listen to this, and they're gonna be like, oh, these guys have no fucking idea.
	Like, wait a minute.
	Like, they don't even know our, like, they don't know basic lore.
	It'd be like me talking about the Marvel Universe.
	I don't, that's not where I, I don't know.
	I have no idea.
	I'm not gonna start.
	I'm not here to waste your fucking time.
	It's like your precious life on this earth by trying to pontificate about the Marvel Universe because I don't know shit about shit.
	What?
	Yeah, yeah.
	These self-admitted, very new people to Christianity probably shouldn't be having this conversation at the end of the day.
	Even thinking about, right now, I'm thinking about trying to engage with a conversation about the Marvel Universe, and it gives me an embarrassed, like, pit in my stomach.
	I'd be like, oh no, it'd be so inappropriate.
	I'd be so embarrassed.
	How do these guys not have that shame?
	Like, that...
	Appropriate, healthy shame response.
	That is your body telling you stop.
	That's not like your body saying like, no, you are like, you're out of pocket.
	Get in the pocket where everything like, cause it's fucking rude.
	Like it's rude and it's shitty and it's a waste of space.
	Pretty insulting to everyone watching it, whether they're Christian or not.
	Sure is!
	So, with no trace of irony whatsoever, we move from denying that Christian nationalism exists to trafficking in great replacement theory.
	I get it.
	It's to reiterate something that should be obvious.
	But in stating that, what the claim made is, is that you're talking about exclusion.
	You're saying that this is America.
	As I've commented before, when I saw you answer that question in Australia, there was embedded into the question, the person made assumptions that you were saying that mass migration impacted white American jobs.
	You said, I never said white American jobs.
	And these assumptions are sort of stitched in.
	There are sort of nefarious assumptions.
	No, the problem that I have with the way mass migration is used now is it's used as a political instrument to disempower people.
	You're using—you're literally trafficking people.
	You're using them as objects in order to accumulate political power, and that's inherently dehumanizing, you know?
	So close.
	There's no sense in which— Our immigration arrangement has any purpose other than to make the people currently in charge forever to create a one-party state.
	That's not a virtuous goal at all.
	It has nothing to do with the lives of the people being trafficked by drug cartels across our border at all.
	They're just pawns in this.
	And I dislike any system that uses people as objects, as widgets in a bin waiting assembly on a line.
	I think you treat people like human beings.
	They have names and fingerprints and souls.
	You know what I mean?
	On that basis, it is weird how Tucker doesn't seem to take any issue with capitalism and will go to seemingly great lengths to defend capitalism, despite that system dehumanizing people and treating them as commodities by design.
	This is what bugs me, man.
	That first sentence he said, good!
	Not just reasonable, good.
	And I've seen...
	Quotes flying around, not recently, but it pops up occasionally, like, I hate to agree with Tucker Carlson, but he said this one sentence.
	- Right. - Like, yeah, that's completely right.
	Like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
	No, no.
	He is so vague and far removed from his point that like this, he's talking about voter fraud.
	Like, Yeah, you need to include the five sentences around the sentence, you know?
	You need all of the context with this guy.
	But also the context of the conversation, because, like, you could even make the argument that, like, yeah, it's not right for American businesses to rely on migrant labor because they can exploit migrant labor.
	That's absolutely correct, as if that was what he was talking about.
	If that was the assessment, yeah.
	Because it wouldn't be necessarily political.
	I mean, you can make the tangential argument that businesses who exploit migrant labor are also accumulating political power by monopolizing monetary power and their own business power.
	But, so, like, the thing is, is, like, people that have, like, totally reasonable and very, like, reality-grounded ideas about the world could hear that and think, reasonable.
	Yeah.
	And maybe just the word political, like, oh, he means, like, you know, like, corporate, political, like, lobbying power or whatever.
	Yeah.
	That, I don't like that he is saying something, like, he is deliberately saying something that is so close to real and so close to good and the truth.
	Like, we don't hear that very often.
	Because, like, you're like, oh, you're so close, but, oh, nope, that's dumb, is different than saying, like, you are so close and if you got quoted, it is entirely reasonable for someone to think that you are a reasonable person making a reasonable conclusion.
	That's scary to me.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Whereas he's definitely not.
	In the wider context, yeah, he's talking about voter fraud.
	This isn't new for Tucker.
	He's long been an advocate for great replacement theory, claiming that the whites are being replaced by brown people at the behest of the Democrats or the globalists or both, usually with a not-so-subtle anti-Semitic undertone suggesting the Jews are in charge of the project.
	And it's not just migration that he's shouted about either.
	He has also continuously harped on about white birth rates being lower than brown birth rates and how that is also part of the Great Replacement Conspiracy.
	This specific version that he's rattling off here is the idea that Democrats are allowing people in by the millions in order to ensure they'll all vote Democrat and that way they can steal this election and all the elections forever!
	And it's just dumb shit backed up by racism and xenophobia.
	It doesn't stand up to even a modicum of scrutiny.
	And Again, without a hint of irony, is promoting a very specific brand of white Christian nationalism.
	The thing they just said doesn't exist.
	Well, but that's also, like, that's the problem with these, like, totally, like, almost correct statements.
	If he can thinly veil those, like, those moments...
	And then he gets quoted on those things.
	And the people are like, I can't believe I'm agreeing with Tucker Carlson.
	I've heard it come out of people's mouths who do not have the time, reasonably so, to listen to every single fucking thing these people say because of the context of the actual statement.
	Like, it's...
	I can't argue with that.
	That statement, the only thing...
	I sound crazy when I'm arguing with that statement that he just made.
	I sound crazy because I'm like, he's talking about voter fraud.
	He's talking about, like...
	And it sounds like I'm accusing him of a conspiracy that is not present.
	It makes me look like the whack job.
	Trying to be like, no, no, no, you don't understand the context.
	It's like saying, no, no, you don't understand.
	He's a lizard.
	It sounds that way to someone who is looking for a reasonable...
	Like, discourse, and is assuming that he's acting in good faith, and then I'm the one that has to be like, no, no, no, he's talking about something completely different that he's not mentioning at all in this statement, and I have to, like, that's also why this show is like, we have to over-explain and give all this context.
	It is so dangerous.
	Like, it just...
	Yeah, yeah.
	I would hope that him mentioning, like, a one-party state would hopefully raise red flags for some people, but it might not, you know?
	But that's the context!
	That's what I'm saying!
	Yeah, the irony of this conversation is that at the start, you know, Russell mentioned this clip of Tucker having a Q&A with an audience and someone basically called him out for being racist, talking about...
	You know, white jobs.
	I never said white jobs.
	I just said jobs.
	And it's like, no, no, no.
	I know you didn't say white jobs.
	You implied it.
	You heavily implied it in as many air quotes as you possibly could around that thing.
	That example, yeah.
	That's the example that is a perfect...
	Summation of the complaint and the concern I have is that he's like, well, I didn't say it.
	Yeah, but you fucking meant it.
	But then the person who's trying to point that out accurately, the person who actually knows what's going on, sounds fucking crazy.
	Yeah, and you're absolutely right.
	It's why this show is as long as it is, because Russell plays the same trick.
	He's like, well, I didn't say that.
	No, you're just heavily pointed at it in every possible way.
	But sure, you didn't say that.
	That's the thing.
	Even Tucker only had so much time on his Fox show and also legal constraints.
	There were still somehow guardrails where now there are none.
	What I'm listening to right now would not have passed muster for his show.
	But because he can just...
	The amount of content they can put out and produce and genuinely say the fucking same thing over and over and over.
	So it's not like they're saying a bunch of new interesting things all the time.
	They've got like four shits that they say and that's it.
	But they package it in different ways and they're fucking tedious and boring so that means they can talk for fucking ever about nothing.
	And they think it's fine because they're also egomaniacs.
	So like...
	It is all buried.
	If the argument can be made like, oh, well, that's not what they meant.
	You have to go listen to the whole thing.
	And then you send a three-hour video over.
	Nope.
	No.
	If you can't explain the context, and if you can't address the context, do not send me a three-hour fucking video as a rebuttal.
	If you can't explain it simply, then you don't understand it either.
	No.
	We're not doing that.
	No.
	Yeah.
	This is not.
	It's what Alex Jones kept trying to do in the fucking trials.
	Yes.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Absolutely.
	So next is something I very genuinely never expected to hear a defense of, full stop, let alone on Russell's show.
	Yeah, it's incredible that you would use that image system because there's no question that industrialization and the ability to maneuver and control matter is one of the moments that generated a sort of epochal shift towards a kind of mass and industrialization.
	Of course, everyone pisses on feudalism.
	But consider the relationship in feudalism between the Lord and his serfs.
	It was symbiotic.
	The Lord was in charge of the serfs.
	Okay.
	Abuses happened.
	I'm against those.
	On the other hand, the Lord couldn't live without the serfs.
	He needed them.
	They were living in symbiosis.
	Each one needed the other.
	And industrialization changed that equation, and labor became a kind of fungible commodity that dehumanized people.
	Okay, he's not entirely wrong, but he's also completely wrong.
	He's both.
	Here's the thing.
	Like, just how divorced from reality do you have to be?
	How firmly in your rich, white, almost billionaire bubble do you have to be before saying out loud into a microphone...
	Hey everyone, hear me out, hear me out.
	Feudalism was good.
	Yeah, not buying it.
	Not buying it.
	He's not saying that.
	I mean, say your piece, but like, I don't think he's saying that necessarily, but he's still saying the wrong thing.
	Like he's saying the wrong, he's getting the wrong lesson.
	But I mean, if you're already going to talk about it, then...
	Well, no, that's most...
	Like, he's saying, well, everyone shits on feudalism.
	I'm like, yeah, but why?
	Like, yeah, the lesson for me from that would be like, yeah, maybe the people have way more power and should, you know, maybe be much more equal in this kind of situation rather than having a fucking lord, you know, like...
	Well, that's also kind of the point.
	Because what he was saying, he was comparing feudalism to industrialization.
	And to a degree, not necessarily to a degree, in a different way than Tucker is talking about it.
	He's talking about industrialization allowed the ownership class to exploit and not just monetize, but widgetify our labor to such an extent.
	That's what Ford was all about, right?
	The assembly line is divorcing us from the skills of the labor to the point where we are all interchangeable.
	Whereas...
	There were people in the, like, in a surf system, right?
	Like, in a feudal system, where, like, you couldn't make a, like, there were guys that were in charge that knew what was up and you didn't, and everyone would starve if you didn't let them do their thing.
	There was more, like, the more that you have specialization and you have organization, then you, like, among the workers, you do have more power and you do have more control.
	And it is kind of crazy to think about that, like, In feudalism, there was a more reciprocal relationship.
	Now, the quality of that reciprocal relationship and what Tucker's talking about varied wildly, but there was a lot more...
	They were conventions, so it wasn't really a law.
	But sometimes there were laws where, like, you had to feed people.
	You had to give them shelter.
	Like, you had to at least have a baseline to care for the people you were in charge of.
	And what he's saying, like, yeah, there were abuses.
	Like, okay, there was also no autonomy.
	That's a problem.
	But there were more requirements.
	Like none of our jobs today are obligated to give us food and shelter.
	None of our jobs today have to give us like paid time off or medical benefits or whatever.
	There's some of them that have to, but most of a majority or a large portion of them that don't.
	And it is weird to think about and learn about even the way that our houses look in America.
	Row houses.
	They were... subsidized by the companies that were employing people.
	The relationship to worker and owner has been completely atomized and severed in a way that was not...
	I mean, it was like the cool thing about religion during feudal times is there were so many holidays.
	Like...
	off because they were also more like kind of integrated into um the oldest calendar for humans which is the agrarian calendar like you couldn't do harvesting when it wasn't time to harvest and now jobs are like you have to harvest for eight hours a day five days a week When harvest only happened once, planting only happened once, it would have to happen at a certain time.
	There were very important moments where there was work to be done, but when there was no work to be done, there was no work to be done.
	So it is a totally different way of life where, in some aspects, And I didn't make this argument, and it's also not necessarily an argument for feudalism.
	It was just totally different.
	We cannot put our modern values or understanding into...
	And it's also different from chattel slavery or slavery in general.
	Like feudalism had its own system and it was also church is also part of it.
	So the people that made a problem, big problem, but the people that could follow all the rules, it would work out okay.
	As long as nothing went wrong, right?
	But that's the thing, you can't assume that nothing's going to go wrong in your whole life.
	Yeah, I'm willing to accept that a feudal lord would have much more direct consequences if they did a shitty job, for instance.
	There would be direct impacts- Or a state lord!
	Right, right?
	He'd be killed!
	Like the thing is, is like murder was on the table for aristocrats across the board for many years.
	So even just like gestures to either like gestures towards being a good leader or just taking their hands off and letting the country run.
	That would make you a good king, and good kings didn't get murdered.
	But see, I would think that Tucker would be against the idea of taking autonomy away from all these people in this scenario of his.
	I would think that he would be against that.
	And he doesn't appear to be.
	Also, I'm not sure he would be- I'm not sure he is against, like, Henry Ford and that side of things either.
	I'm positive he's not.
	Yeah, yeah.
	What he said just was.
	Yes.
	Oh, God, this man is- The thing is, is if there's guys that know how to make your shoes, and there's no one else in town that knows how to make your shoes, don't fuck with them or you don't get shoes.
	That's not the world we live in anymore.
	Mm.
	There was power within the specialization and organization of workers.
	So it didn't always work out.
	And in fact, feudalism, also bad.
	We cannot apply medieval feudalism, a thing I happen to be low-key obsessed with.
	Like, I might know a lot about it.
	So when you have that system, there are galling exceptions that make their rounds and memes occasionally.
	And they're not entirely true.
	Like, every single, like, high holy day where you were not allowed to work, there was plenty of problems with that.
	But that also meant that, like, you were owed, like, the bread and circuses of it all, you were owed bread and you were owed circuses.
	And we don't even get that.
	We don't even get that now because of the atomization of work and the hyper-atomization and industrialization and the separation from people.
	The separation people experience in their jobs.
	These arguments are absolutely used by conservatives, and they always have been to cite the absolute best possible, not best actual, best possible parts of, like, there was an ideal.
	For feudalism and then there was a reality.
	And the ideal is the noble and – they were called nobles.
	Come on.
	Noble and responsible, good Christian lord provided for the people and then the people reciprocated.
	That's the ideal.
	That wasn't the reality on the ground.
	So what he's talking about is the ideal, the Christian ideal from God is that everyone does great all the time and doesn't need checks.
	It's the same as his conception of what a Christian is, you know, someone who never sleeps with someone else's wife, you know?
	Yeah.
	On paper, sure.
	On tablet, sure.
	In reality, that's not life.
	And that's not how this works.
	Power gets exploited.
	Like, that's...
	Power leads to exploitation.
	That's what I'm saying.
	He's getting...
	There's this nugget of, like...
	There's a nugget of truth that he is completely, like, silly-putting.
	Like, it's just...
	The nugget gets stamped and then he has bent it out of all recognition.
	But again...
	There's enough like curdle in it for someone who's not paying a ton of attention or not like super informed to know that he's being manipulative.
	He doesn't.
	That's, yeah, that's, and it's not just Tucker.
	There's like a whole section of conservatism that like makes these arguments for feudalism in like, it started as like fun learning about history.
	And now it's, it's, I don't know, it's a whole other thing that like, that Catholic feudalism was better because of all the vacation days.
	And that's not true.
	But it's not not true.
	It's a total misrepresentation.
	Yeah, it does feel like there's a lot of context missing from that conversation.
	Too much.
	Too much.
	Way too much.
	Hi, sorry.
	I had to say it all really quickly.
	And I hope it made any amount of sense.
	Because yeah, there are volumes of context that are missing from what he's saying.
	Oh yeah.
	Oh yeah.
	And again, without a hint of irony, Tucker moves on to talking about how governments don't care about the people that they govern.
	And again, we get to this nugget of truth that he's trampling on.
	The explosion, the exponential explosion in technological power in the last 30 years with the rise of the internet has made it much worse and has allowed our leaders to really just forget that they're ruling over people at all.
	I think they think people are irrelevant, and now I think they think people are in the way.
	And I look at the, I might give you a million examples, but the one I'm currently obsessed with is the MAID program, Medical assistance and dying program in Canada, where the Canadian government, basically, if you're depressed or don't have a house or you think the economy is moving in the wrong direction, they'll kill you.
	They'll offer to kill you.
	You go to the doctor, well, have you considered suicide?
	So what is that?
	Without even taking a position on physician-assisted suicide, which I'm adamantly against, but just like the attitudes on display there are so anti-human.
	They regard people as just disposable.
	And there's nothing worse than that, in my opinion.
	Yeah, they'll just offer to kill you, those Canadian doctors.
	If you tell them, well, I'm not sure about Trudeau's economic policy, they'll be like, have you thought about being dead?
	You know, gets rid of the economic concerns, the whole death thing.
	Yeah, this is nuts.
	Again, history buffs out there, let's all unite.
	Before modern medicine and being able to manage symptoms and offer palliative care...
	The way that people had to die.
	What's crazy is how resilient the human body is for suffering.
	Your whole body can turn into pus and start to rot before you die.
	And it happened all the time because that was the notion that like...
	That was the Christian notion that it was immoral to commit...
	You wouldn't go to heaven if you committed suicide.
	Yes.
	Quote unquote committed suicide.
	You could just end your suffering is what...
	I mean, legit problem that, like, and Canada is, like, trying to address it.
	That's also, like, old news, is that guy that was like, well, I'll be homeless, so I might as well.
	So, yeah, this is an old thing.
	Like, Canada's MAID program has been the subject of controversy due to the Canadian government wanting to include a mental health provision...
	Whereby someone can voluntarily end their life with medical assistance solely due to mental illness.
	And there are significant questions around how these people would be assessed and whether any consideration would be given to the idea of, like, circumstantial depression, for instance.
	Like the idea of a houseless person falling on tough times, perhaps feeling suicidal due to their circumstances more so than mental illness.
	And there's a lot of debate around what safeguards should be put in place and how...
	But this particularly contentious can has been kicked down the road since 2021 and will be reassessed properly in 2027.
	So yeah, this is not new.
	And in the meantime with the MAID program, to be eligible for medical assistance currently in dying, you must meet all the following criteria.
	You must be eligible for health services funded by a province or territory or the federal government.
	You must be at least 18 years old and mentally competent.
	Have a grievous and irremediable medical condition.
	Make a voluntary request for medical assistance in dying.
	The request cannot be the result of outside pressure or influence.
	So you can't have a doctor just being like, hey, have you thought about death?
	You must give informed consent to receive medical assistance in dying as well.
	And the informed consent part includes being informed about all the treatment options, all of the other things first.
	This is very much a last resort situation.
	And to be clear, to be considered as having a grievous and irremediable medical condition, you must meet all of the following criteria, right?
	You must have a serious illness, disease, or disability, be in an advanced state of decline that cannot be reversed, experience unbearable physical or mental suffering from your illness, disease, disability, or state of decline that cannot be relieved under conditions that you consider acceptable.
	So you have to meet all of those conditions, not just some, not just...
	All of what I've just said has to apply before you're allowed to go down this road.
	Weirdly, there's nothing about your opinions on the state of the economy in either of those lists.
	Oh, shit!
	That list went sideways so fast!
	If you're depressed, or you don't have a house, or you think the economy's shit well, they'll just kill you!
	They'll kill you.
	Yeah, for a second, Tucker almost cared about a houseless person.
	Almost.
	Yeah, yeah, he's again coming so close.
	Yeah, so next Tucker drives his philosophy home and I have a question.
	All I'm saying is when you give the state the right to kill people because they're burdensome or expensive or in the way, people don't have the right to kill other people except in self-defense, period.
	You don't have that right.
	You didn't create life.
	You're not allowed to end life except in self-defense, period.
	And I will say, as someone who's been on the right my entire life, I just want to say that to my friends on the right in the United States.
	You do not have the right to kill people except in self-defense, ever, because you are not God.
	And if you decide that you have that right, if you decide you are God and you just get to kill people because it's going to make the world better or whatever, you're a monster.
	And just know that.
	That's, by the way, I didn't always feel that way, but I now do.
	I feel it strongly enough to become unpopular by saying it.
	But I just want to say it one more time.
	You don't have the right to kill people except in self-defense, period.
	So my question is, what constitutes self-defense?
	Right.
	Because if someone feels like their country is being, I don't know, invaded, for instance, because some chucklehead keeps throwing great replacement theory narratives around, the argument could be made that, hey, yeah, I killed all these migrants to protect myself and keep my freedoms and protect democracy.
	These people keep telling me that democracy is going to be stolen from me, so what alternative did I have?
	Yeah.
	And maybe that was self-defense.
	Right?
	Right.
	I'd say it is bad, ethically evil, maybe even sinful, to whip people into a froth to think that they are in immediate danger and anything that they do, regardless of how violent or appropriate for the situation, is self-defense because they believe they're in danger.
	That is wrong and that's what both of these guys make money doing.
	It is bad.
	It is evil.
	It is not right.
	Yeah, yeah.
	So, okay.
	The immediate example that springs to mind in this bullshit, Carl Rittenhouse, right?
	And it worked!
	It worked, that's the baffling fucking thing.
	He's out tooling around!
	Yeah, yeah.
	He's palling about the place having travelled cross-country to shoot people in self-defense.
	Yeah.
	You know?
	Like, hang on a second.
	But, you know, that's the kind of thing that Tuck is fine with, you know.
	Yeah, but the state will kill someone who was in jail for life and was in a car with someone else who committed a murder, maybe.
	Yeah.
	That guy will get killed.
	Yeah, yeah, he doesn't...
	Being glad you're doesn't help.
	No, it really doesn't in any of these cases.
	But yeah, he seems to take far less issue with that.
	Also, yeah, it's just...
	Oh, this guy's exhausting.
	So now in a roundabout way, Russell airs some of his struggles with Christianity.
	This clarity with which you speak and this fearlessness, do you think it's been impacted by what it seems to be and what I'm suggesting is a transformation into a more explicit Christian?
	And can you please speak to me a bit, Tucker, about something that has been on my mind a lot.
	I'm not from the right.
	I'm from the left, cultural left, Hollywood, all that kind of stuff was really into the idea of socialism.
	Because I thought socialism was Fairness and sharing and taking on big powerful interests and bringing down global corporatism and the only way to confront the titans is if the people band together against them.
	One thing that's happened to me as I've kind of Super-rational.
	Super rational position.
	Something changes, does it, Tucker, when you go from like, oh, I get it, yeah, Jesus is like sort of a representative of that we can all be sort of a bit like God and we should all be kind and what lovely values and you can find these values in Hinduism and you can find them everywhere to...
	God came to earth in the figure of a man and was killed in order to atone for our sins and rose again that we may know eternal life.
	My rational mind Will not accept that proposition.
	And when my rational mind, as it has done, buckles and bends and ultimately breaks, as it sort of had to, so many things have just forced it.
	It seems like inevitable and Beautiful, necessary.
	There is a peace that passeth all understanding.
	Understanding is limited.
	How would you dare to deem that within the purview of rational thought materialism, and that could be measured, would be the answers to those questions?
	How did that take him from the left, though?
	Because he said he started on the left, and then this.
	Yes, yeah, yeah, and going from like, you know, socialism, you know, I thought socialism was a good thing, but it seems it doesn't work out that way, and now I've been dragged over this direction and Christianity.
	It's a little bit brambly.
	I've listened to this a few times, and it does link into what we covered in the Off Brand episode this week, especially this last bit, because Russell is having a tough time with accepting Christianity.
	And he has to attempt to sort of re-indoctrinate himself on a daily basis.
	And accordingly, him having to bend and buckle and break his mind in order to force it to accept Christianity as truth makes a whole lot of sense.
	It's really quite upsetting.
	And it is the literal process of brainwashing.
	You know, you must break someone down in order to build them back up in whatever form you're seeking, right?
	He is attempting to do this to himself and justifying it by claiming that, well, of course I can't understand God.
	That's in the super rational, you know?
	Yeah, also, don't put super in front of a word if someone starts saying almost irrational.
	Nope.
	Just put in the opposite in the front.
	Uh-uh.
	So I'm going to pull that pin that I stuck in there.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Tucker said in this interview...
	Mm-hmm.
	That he's been on the right his entire life.
	Oh, well, he has said so many different things.
	I think that's maybe more honest because he's been rich his whole life.
	So the only thing I know for sure, he's been rich his whole fucking life because he's made a lot of hay in other interviews and in other places where he's speaking.
	He's like, well, I was on the left.
	Because he claims he wants a conversion story when it's convenient.
	To the right because, oh, I saw the light and this just makes more sense.
	But now, oh, he was on the right his entire life.
	Which one's true?
	I'm not going to say that's a lie.
	Which one's true?
	I have my theory, but all I know is he's been rich the whole time.
	And I think that maybe that's the only real honest thing about it.
	Whereas Russell is genuinely...
	Not even necessarily genuinely.
	My theory is that he was saying stuff that was the most popular and made the most sense, which happens to also be leftist or sound leftist, maybe liberal and sound leftist, because it's for the people.
	The most amount of people get cared for the most and get to live lives with dignity, like productive lives with dignity the most with leftist policies.
	So it's really easy, especially if you're a comedian and you want to talk for a living, to talk about these things, whether you call them what they are or not is different.
	But I think what we've learned time and time again, that if you don't call socialism socialism, you describe it to a person like, yeah, that's what we should do.
	That's great.
	But then you say the word socialism and you're like, burn the witch.
	It's very different.
	So...
	Tucker, I don't know.
	That hit me like a lightning bolt for Tucker to say, I've been on the right my entire life.
	Because he has said the opposite, depending on the situation he's in.
	Because sometimes this works, sometimes the conversion story works.
	And that means he's just talking shit.
	He's a liar.
	He's not saying the truth.
	That feels accurate.
	Regardless of whatever else he says, that part feels accurate.
	Okay, so next we get to Tucker talking about his philosophy on accepting Christianity.
	No, I mean, reason is a gift that we were born with.
	It's one of the benefits of being human and not, say, canine.
	No, really.
	And so I think we should use reason.
	I think it's important to be rational.
	But I don't think it's the...
	You know, I don't think you can get to...
	Look, the people I listen to are the people who aren't afraid to die because they understand something that most people don't understand.
	Everyone else is racked with anxiety because they know they're dying and their time is running out and they can't deal with it, so they're, you know...
	Yeah.
	as a way to feel powerful or they're, you know, often some weird health regimen as a way to convince themselves they're never going to die.
	And their name is Tucker.
	Those people are fools.
	That's obvious.
	The only people I really pay attention to are the ones who seem to have peace about the end of their lives.
	And why?
	Because that's a kind of wisdom that does surpass understanding.
	And that's the only kind worth having.
	And so those are the people I listen to.
	And that's the marker for me.
	Like, how anxious are you about your death?
	Anything that doesn't explain what happens when you die is pointless.
	It doesn't, you know, doesn't actually mean anything.
	Right?
	Right?
	Okay, so all that matters is basically the guarantee of an afterlife of some description.
	Firstly, if that does exist, Tucker, I don't think you're going to the good place, buddy.
	But also, I question the wisdom of only listening to people who are at peace about their eventual death.
	Firstly, you can find people of all religions who fit that description, including plenty of atheists who don't fear death.
	I feel like Buddhists kind of are like...
	Yeah, yeah, they nailed that one.
	They're kind of way ahead, genuinely.
	Yes, yeah, usually.
	Be right back, you know?
	Yeah, Christians aren't on that list.
	The structure of Christianity, I feel like most of it is managing the anxiety around your mortality.
	That's like a huge function of religion and you're not going to, okay, all right.
	Yeah, yeah, and also you can find some really mentally unwell people who don't fear death, including myself a few years ago before attempting to unalive myself, and believe me when I say no one should have been listening to my thoughts at that time.
	It's a bad system, but what he's actually trying to cement is that guarantee of heaven, essentially.
	A sort of, well, I'm only going to listen to people who believe in this good afterlife place because that's where I'd like to be.
	So rather than addressing any of the other philosophical questions around Christianity, Tucker is far more interested in what he can get out of it personally, because he seems nervous about that whole death thing, huh?
	It's really crazy to hear this person, this Pollyanna, because that also is his vibe, right?
	Is the Pollyanna's like, what do you mean?
	I'm just a little baby Tucker Carlos and I don't know any bad old.
	The confused puppy of it all.
	Do my sentences have to...
	Yeah, which also, he said canine.
	I feel like animals are far more rational because they don't have the ability to rationalize and, like, they don't really have the capacity for cognitive dissonance.
	Their actions are pretty straightforward.
	I feel like we could learn a thing or two.
	But, like, just...
	Okay.
	I mean, it's the same concept of, like, oh, well, no.
	Oh, my God.
	No Christians have ever cheated on their wives because they're Christians, and no Christians fear death because they're Christians.
	Like, that is, like, such a big part of the whole pageant.
	And the function of religion in general, the human impulse for religion baked into who we are, our DNA, is managing the anxiety around the fear of death.
	That is part of how we came up with the shit in the first place.
	Yeah, yeah.
	So, I'm amazed.
	I'm amazed to hear such, like...
	Empty-headed people talk so much.
	I'm fascinated.
	Completely.
	I'm fascinated.
	It feels intentionally miss all of the points.
	Like, it's just whoosh the whole time, you know?
	Yeah, how often does, like, if you're given a yes or no, a 50-50, of, like, you are right or you are wrong...
	At what point is the over-under, because it just seems like, why do you pick the wrong one so much?
	Every time!
	It implies agency if you were so far off from a probability of right and wrong.
	Yeah, you get to a point where you're like, this has to be intentional, this can't be chance.
	Well, but I don't know what that intention is, though.
	That's the thing.
	It's almost like if you wrote it, you wouldn't believe it.
	It's like the guy that cheated on the TV show, Press Your Luck.
	He should have lost a little bit, and then he would have gotten away with it.
	He just won the whole game and took all the money.
	And if he would have just lost a couple of times...
	He probably would have gotten away with it and no one would have ever known that he was a smart little cheater.
	Get a couple of...
	I think that's what I'm saying.
	He's getting some things right while on the whole...
	All these coin flips, like if your probability for even just guessing, getting something right or wrong, and if you are so far off from just a coin flip probability of getting things right or wrong, if it's a yes or no or whatever, like if you decide to go one way or the other, I don't know how much of it's instinct and I don't like if you decide to go one way or the other, I don't know how much And I think that's kind of what we're talking about, right?
	In this project and in general is that space in between of what's the agency and what's the instinct.
	And at the end of the day, we have to just look at the results.
	And the results are the problem.
	Because I don't know how you're this wrong.
	And people listen to you.
	It's pretty impressive in its own way.
	They're loud enough, and they're wrong enough.
	Yeah, rich enough, white enough.
	Flooding the market?
	Yeah, maybe, maybe.
	So Taka furthers this idea of his with a personal anecdote, and Russell accidentally fact-checks him in the middle.
	Do you feel like a presence of Christ?
	Oh, all the time, yeah.
	All the time.
	Man, we had quite an airline flight yesterday.
	And yeah, everyone on the plane, we're on a little plane flying through the outskirts of the hurricane here in Florida.
	And everyone knew it was going to be a pretty memorable flight.
	So everyone said a prayer on the plane, including the pilot.
	And I felt complete peace the whole time.
	I was like, this is kind of interesting.
	I've never seen a plane do anything like this before.
	I've never landed in over 50-mile-an-hour crosswinds.
	I didn't know a plane could behave like this.
	This is kind of amazing.
	But I wasn't worried at all.
	And I wasn't.
	Not because I'm so brave, but because I really felt an assurance that no matter what happened, everything would be fine.
	And so anything that gives you that perspective, that's the only thing worth chasing, I've decided.
	Because I used to drink a lot on planes.
	I just get absolutely hammered so I wouldn't think about it.
	But no matter how drunk I was, I mean, I had plane flights where really I had to get off in a wheelchair.
	I could barely walk because I drank a quart of vodka.
	Actually, a wheelchair.
	Well, I never got a wheelchair, but I needed one.
	I'd like bounce off the seats and then, yeah, like so drunk I couldn't talk.
	And even that didn't really work.
	Oh, I bet you talked.
	You know what I mean?
	No matter how drunk you are, as long as you're conscious, you can still be afraid.
	But when you have a deeper peace...
	Yeah, I mean, this plane yesterday was...
	It came in sideways into the runway.
	I don't know how he landed the thing.
	Whoa.
	But it wasn't scary.
	It was interesting.
	I was looking out the window.
	I was like, well, this is kind of amazing.
	I don't think he can land like this, can he?
	And he did.
	And I was excited, but I was never panicked.
	And so whatever that is that gives you that assurance, what else is worth chasing?
	Both of you just get back on drugs.
	It's a lot easier to get high all the time.
	I feel like drugs is the thing that you're looking for, and you're not going to find anything else that can top drugs.
	Really crazy, lots of hard drugs.
	Yeah.
	Seems like a struggle.
	They just want to get high!
	They really do.
	They really, really do.
	For context, this was recorded at the tail end of September, so September 27th, I believe, backstage at the second live event Tucker did featuring Russell and John Rich.
	It was in Sunrise, Florida, which is right at the tip of the hanging dong that is Florida, not far from Fort Lauderdale.
	It got pretty windy there, for sure.
	It was, however, hundreds of miles from the actual Hurricane's Path.
	I've no doubt it was pretty scary in the moment, probably, but, you know, also when it comes down to it, like, yeah.
	You had some turbulence.
	If it hadn't been safe to land, you wouldn't have landed there, or your flight would have been cancelled.
	gotten pretty good at that sort of stuff these days generally speaking but yeah well yeah there's elation anytime you are in peril and then not in peril That's how brains work.
	That's how rollercoasters work.
	That's exactly what I was like, listen, man, I'm thinking, like, I'm like, Russell, because the thing is, it's like, Russell's like, well, ice baths get me really high every fucking morning, and this Christianity shit is giving me a hit once a month max.
	I gotta up the ante here, which is also...
	How cults start, cults focus on the spiritual experience part of religion and then throw the rest away.
	And that's how they get people so committed because your actual body gets addicted to the rush and the feeling of the presence of the cult leader.
	There's this whole kind of physiological experience.
	and he's not getting it from Christianity.
	And it's really funny that he thinks he can just like skip to another religion and get the same thing.
	Like, no, this isn't how it works.
	- Yeah.
	- They just wanna get high.
	- Yeah, yeah.
	Which is profoundly human.
	It's such a human impulse.
	Yeah.
	I wonder if that's how Tucker feels when he looks at all his bank accounts.
	He's like, yeah, that feels great.
	Maybe that's part of it.
	Maybe that's part of the rich brain rot.
	You just get to see...
	Like, at this point, it's not, like, I don't have to, I don't need anyone to tell me I'm important.
	I don't need to do anything in the world that is valuable that people, or not, and that people, like, tell me is important.
	I can just look at my bank account and know I'm important by itself because of all the money I have.
	I wonder if that's part of it.
	Maybe.
	Maybe.
	I hope it's not.
	I hope the actual thing is that every time he looks at his bank balance go up, he's like...
	But, you know, we may never know.
	Like he's sad?
	What is that?
	Ambivalent, almost.
	Just like...
	Yeah, more money, I guess.
	Because these people are constantly chasing the things, the community and all of the other things.
	And they're chasing highs and they're chasing all of these other things that they just can't get in their isolated, rich, white little world.
	I'm sure that's part of it.
	But also, he's not on TV anymore.
	He's got to hustle a lot harder to maintain his standard of living.
	That's the other thing.
	These two dudes are not on the come up.
	These are the mighty who have fallen.
	Yeah.
	And so they're both commiserating on how hard it is to still feel as the most important boy while not really being the most important boy anymore.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's true.
	It's true.
	And Russell's trying to kind of, he's trying to have a come up of the alt-right.
	You know, he's trying to find his way up a different mountain.
	Your movies are never going to be that good, dog.
	You're not going to get there.
	Nope.
	Oh, God.
	I wonder how long it'll be before we see Russell in a Daily Wire movie.
	Don't threaten me with a good time!
	Anyway, next Taka tells us what evil looks like.
	Well, I think it's important to just say what the characteristics of evil are, and then we can make a judgment about what we're seeing.
	Because I often don't know, you know, even people I support or like, or sometimes I feel like they're being used for evil purposes.
	I have often felt in my life that I have been used for evil purposes.
	I have been a vehicle for evil.
	I know that I have been.
	I don't want to be.
	I'm sure I will be again.
	But it's important to kind of take the individuals out of it and just ask, like, what does evil look like?
	Well, evil is chaos, is one sign of it, always.
	God brings order.
	He brought it out of chaos when he created the world.
	So chaos, filth, craziness, you know, disorganization, people being alienated from themselves or their environment, all of that, you know, those are all signs of evil.
	Violence.
	Violence.
	Anything that drives people from each other, that divides relationships, that breaks apart families, I think we can say unequivocally that's evil.
	And so I think it's important, as Jesus said, you judge the tree by its fruit.
	You know, oh, it's an apple tree.
	Well, why are there lemons growing on it?
	No, it's a lemon tree.
	I don't care what you call it.
	I don't care.
	Actually, I've totally lost interest in what people say.
	Because as someone who uses words for a living, I know how deceptive they can be.
	So I don't really care what anybody says.
	My dogs don't care what I say.
	They know me very well just by watching what I do.
	And that's how I seek to understand other people and whether something is good or bad, evil or virtuous.
	What is the effect?
	This dude has a really weird relationship with his dogs.
	Like, he's got a weird obsession about it.
	It's strange to me.
	Well, he doesn't have kids.
	And everyone he talks to has kids.
	So he still needs to have some prop.
	I thought he does have kids.
	Or wait, does he?
	Right?
	I think so.
	I guess whoever is in his, like, he talks about, I think...
	Yeah, you're absolutely right, but he talks about his dogs because his kids aren't home anymore.
	Right, yeah, I don't know how often he sees his kids.
	I think that's a different question.
	Surrogate prop.
	Yeah, which is, I'm sure they're adults.
	I'm sure that's normal, but he doesn't have children in the home to talk about, so he needs a prop.
	Yes, yeah, yeah.
	And he thinks that dogs are a reasonable exchange.
	Gonna use my dogs!
	This is weird.
	Judging things by their effects, right?
	Not a bad way to measure things, for sure.
	If I were to apply that to Tucker, I would say he spent his entire career inspiring people to alienation, chaos, division, hatred, and violence.
	The man's been race-baiting on camera for 30 years now, and this Trump guy they all seem to love is also doing all of those things he just listed as evil, especially the breaking apart of families.
	Like, I know for a fact that's something Trump has been in Incredibly effective in America, both literally at the border and politically separating families down ideological lines.
	You know, but by their fruits shall ye know them, and these people's fruit is rotten to the core.
	Oh, and don't think I missed the little dig against trans people in the guise of fruit trees, of course.
	Apparently it's evil to call a lemon tree an apple tree.
	Dumb analogy, but that's what he was trying to do.
	Boy, oh boy.
	Yeah, bad analogy.
	I'm just like, what the fuck?
	I can see there's lemons on that trail.
	Also, what he said at the beginning, he's like, I've been a vehicle for evil.
	I've been used for evil.
	I've been a vehicle for evil.
	What a fun way to not take accountability for any of your actions.
	I've been used as a vehicle for evil.
	The thing is, I can see that perspective of like, oh, I worked for Fox, you know, this big fucking corporation and everything else.
	Okay, fine.
	Why are you then sure that you are going to be a vehicle for evil again?
	I'm like, you're your own thing now.
	How is that going to happen now?
	It's still saying that he's...
	Yeah, but even using that example of like...
	No no no.
	There was no gun to your head to say any of the things that you did.
	You allowed yourself to join into the system.
	No one used you as a vehicle for evil.
	You used yourself.
	You actively engaged and participated.
	But what a fun way to never have to be accountable for your actions.
	I'd use that as an instructive example for anyone that's like, the devil made me do it.
	I was possessed.
	Or even just like, oh, I did something evil because of the devil or a demon or whatever.
	Okay.
	What?
	It's a great get-out-of-jail-free card.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	And speaking of lacking accountability, I mentioned he'd come back to elaborating on Jim Baker and all that stuff.
	So here it is with another anecdote.
	My point earlier was there's something incredibly dangerous about standing up and saying, you want to know what a Christian looks like?
	Look at me.
	And I'm afraid of that.
	I'm so afraid of that.
	One of the reasons that I have a lot of trouble going to church is all these Christian leaders are so flawed and so obviously fake.
	I can't deal with it.
	It freaks me out.
	Why is that?
	Because they're all under spiritual attack.
	That's why.
	They're under spiritual attack.
	Yes, they are!
	Everyone's like, well, why all these Christian ministers, famous Christian ministers have freaky sex lives?
	Why do you think?
	Because they're under spiritual attack.
	By the way, if they were working as house painters, they'd probably be happily married.
	But the second they stand up and say, I'm running your church, you know, they're under spiritual attack.
	These pitfalls are sent their way.
	And that just freaks me out.
	My college roommate once told me that the second he became a minister, after his first sermon, this woman comes into his office and says, you know, I've had all these marital problems to do counseling.
	And then she hits on him.
	And he's wise.
	And he said, I'm never doing that again.
	Because I know now that I've held myself up as, you know, someone people can look to if they want to understand who Jesus is, I'm going to be under attack.
	And the purpose of those attacks will be to discredit God, Jesus.
	And I'm not going to do that.
	And so it's just, I don't know.
	I'm very, ugh, it makes me nervous.
	It makes me nervous!
	Methinks the lady doth protest too much.
	Yeah.
	I feel like the only reason you'd be that nervous in this situation is if you were the type to be easily corrupted, you know?
	But anyway, this makes sense with the Jim Baker of it all.
	You know, it's not that Jim Baker is evil or anything, it's that he succumbed to spiritual attacks.
	It's not his fault he's a corrupt, fraudulent sex pest, it's the spiritual attacks!
	And Tucker fears that he too would not be able to stand up to those spiritual attacks, and boy does that tell me all I need to know.
	Yeah, it's not the money and the power that's correcting you.
	It's not Satan.
	It's the devil.
	Yep!
	Spiritual attacks because you're standing up for God.
	That's what it is.
	I mean, he's listened to what they've said.
	That claim has been made.
	So then why is Jim Baker bad?
	He should be better because of what Russell said about God loves all the broken, you know, imperfect ones, right?
	Yes, yeah, they seem to both have two pretty different conceptions of what Christianity is, fundamentally.
	Well, I don't think- I mean, if Russell agrees with him, then Russell just doesn't agree with himself.
	Like, wait, what?
	Well, I mean, Russell might be agreeing with him- It seems harder than I would think it to be, but Russell really struggles.
	So does Tucker, actually.
	These are two incredibly inconsistent men.
	I think I'm annoyed at how little they struggle.
	They seem like just, they're cruising.
	They're just having a gale time, just like floating down a lazy river, and I hate it.
	Yeah, yeah, Mai Tai and the little thing, you know, it's just, yeah, yeah, no, completely.
	It's somewhat baffling how easy it is for them to contradict themselves, just constantly, you know, just like, yeah, this is fun, I'm just vibing.
	I'm just vibing with it.
	Are we going to go over here now?
	Alright, I'll vibe with that too.
	Okay, okay.
	So from here, Russell pulls out a stupid book written by a preacher.
	And within that book is a quote from 1984, which Russell then begins to read.
	And then you're like, this then.
	This is like a passage out of 1994, but the lead into it's pretty nice.
	Only power for the sake of power is expressed when man usurps the prerogatives of God.
	Orwell has the character O'Brien declare in a noted passage, power is inflicting pain and humiliation.
	Power is in tearing human minds to pieces and putting them together again in new shapes of your own choosing.
	Do you begin to see then what kind of world we are creating?
	Is the exact opposite of the stupid hedonistic utopias that the old reformers imagined?
	A world of fear and treachery and torment, a world of trampling and being trampled on, a world which will grow not less but more merciless as it refines itself.
	Progress in our world will be progress towards more pain.
	Already we are breaking down the habits of thought which have survived from before the revolution.
	We have cut the links between child and parent, between man and man, between man and woman.
	No one dares trust a wife or a child or a friend any longer.
	but in the future there will be no wives no friends children will be taken from their mothers at birth as one takes eggs from a hen the sex instinct will be eradicated procreation will be an annual formality like the renewal of a ration card there will be no loyalty except loyalty toward the party there will be no love except the love of big brother there will be no art no literature no science when we are when we are omnipotent we shall have no more need of science There will be no distinction between beauty and ugliness.
	Orwell!
	There will be no curiosity, no employment of the process of life.
	All competing pleasures will be destroyed.
	But always, do not forget this, Winston, always there will be the intoxication of power, constantly increasing and constantly growing subtler.
	Always, at every moment, there will be the thrill of victory, the sensation of trampling on the enemy who is helpless.
	If you want a picture of the future, and now the famous bit, imagine a boot stamping on a human face forever.
	So that's from 1984, which I've read, obviously.
	Yeah.
	I don't remember how beautifully written that is, how perfect that is.
	Yeah, for anyone listening and not watching, if you've ever seen the face of the kid in the class who's not done the homework or not done the reading, that's the look on Tucker's face for the last minute or so.
	And, like, I don't think he's read this book.
	What gave it away was the look of surprise when he asked, who wrote this?
	Like, this is fantastic, holy shit!
	And, well, yeah...
	And it's a pretty recognizable passage, you know, as well.
	Like, it's a pretty famous little section.
	You know, I haven't read 1984 since I was like 18, and I was like, ah, vaguely, yeah, I remember this bit.
	So, you know, I would think, I have a theory that he knows lots of things about Orwell, which we'll get to in a second, and he knows like little bits and quotes and things, but I don't think he's ever actually engaged with the text.
	Well, he knows memes.
	And genuinely, like...
	Here's the thing.
	He probably did read the book.
	Everyone that my dad's age...
	Like, it was a standard...
	Like, that was standard reading in education in this country.
	And I'm sure in his little fucking private school, whatever, that he read the whole book.
	When he was a teenager.
	Which has very little to do with Tucker...
	Like, the amount of space...
	Like, he's got...
	Listen...
	He's got to keep a lot of space in his brain for whatever is happening now.
	So he's Marie Kondo-ing like a motherfucker in his brain all the time.
	I don't care if you read the book or not.
	You don't act like it.
	I don't give a shit if you read it.
	You don't act like you read it.
	So it doesn't...
	That's, again, it's a technicality.
	It's like, oh, well, technically I did read it.
	Okay, then act like it.
	Because nothing that you say or do lets me know that you took a...
	Or you read the whole thing and you don't understand it.
	Like, you didn't get the message.
	You got a different message.
	So, like...
	Well, well, speaking of the message that they get from it, Tucker is about to regurgitate some meme stuff from 1984, as well as some fact stuff-ish.
	But then we get to what they think the meaning of it is, and essentially what it comes down to is rewriting some history and fitting it to their narrative.
	Out of context.
	But that was written almost 80 years ago, and that is, that's just so perfect.
	I mean, what a, that's prophetic.
	What is amazing is, of course, it was largely a commentary on what he was aware of in the emergence of Soviet communism, but what I didn't imagine...
	But also post-war Britain.
	He was writing that in post-war Britain.
	That social democracy would tend towards totalitarianism.
	So that's, everyone always says, Oh, that's incredible.
	I forgot how powerful.
	I got to reread that.
	I love Orwell, and I'm embarrassed I didn't recognize that passage.
	But everyone, you know, he was radicalized during the Spanish Civil War when he was almost murdered by the Republicans for whom he was fighting, the Poom.
	And then he became this great critic of Stalinism.
	But that was written after his country defeated fascism.
	Wow.
	And I'm not convinced that that was written about the Soviet Union.
	I think he saw what the West was becoming, because that's a description of what the West is becoming right now.
	I mean, it's unbelievable, isn't it?
	Perhaps then, you know, given that there was a sort of a resurgence of there was a labor movement in the UK, of course, after the establishment of the NHS and BBC and many beautiful what I once cherished institutions of social care in my country.
	But perhaps you're saying he sort of prophesied that the infusion of state totalitarianism, even under the guises of aid and health, cultural artifacts, will lead to the severance of these sacred bonds and ties.
	Well, yeah, because the cafeteria scene, there's a famous cafeteria scene in 1984.
	Winston and Julia are having lunch and it was he worked at BBC, of course.
	Orwell worked at BBC during the war.
	And apparently that scene was modeled on the BBC cafeteria.
	And not on, you know, Lubyanka Prison.
	Anyway, it's just he captures...
	It's the distortion of the Anglo world, of which he was, you know, a product, of course, into something totalitarian that he really gets at.
	I mean, he was not an expert on the Slavic peoples.
	He was an expert on the Anglo peoples and wrote about the English, your people, our people, more beautifully than anyone ever, in my opinion.
	But he saw where they were headed, I think.
	Mm-hmm.
	So Orwell was warning against the evils of socialism in the UK, was he?
	It amazes me that Tucker can bring up Orwell's experience in the Spanish Civil War and still pretend that this is the conclusion.
	It was during that war that Orwell was radicalized against totalitarianism, against Stalin, and against propaganda.
	Orwell specifically joined a socialist faction allied to the Party of Marxist Unification during that fight.
	And how about a quote from the man itself?
	Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written directly or indirectly against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism as I understand it.
	Unquote.
	And here these two nitwits are trying to claim that Orwell was warning against the evils of socialism when it goes too far.
	And even like a sophomore reading of 1984 makes it abundantly clear that Ingsoc, the party, is not socialist.
	It's very specifically not those things, and that's part of the problem.
	Yeah, looks a lot like capitalism.
	Looks a lot like oligarchy.
	And also, a lot of things have happened between now and when that book was written.
	He's doing the same thing that he was doing with feudalism.
	He knows just enough.
	That's what I'm saying.
	He knows the memes.
	He knows the conservative memes that he can use.
	And he doesn't need to know more because he just has those nuggets so that he can take it out of context and use them for the point that he's trying to make.
	Even if it doesn't really work, it sounds like he knows what he's talking about.
	Yeah, because I don't care if you fucking read the book.
	I don't care what you know.
	You're not taking the lesson away that was intended or you're not getting it.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	So, you could have read it a hundred times.
	If this is how you're acting when information is presented to you, then you didn't get the lesson.
	Yes, yeah, yeah, I don't trust Tucker to read anything and take away the correct reading of it.
	You know, and this is very much supposed to be, you know, totalitarianism taken to the most extreme degree, you know, in this dystopian thing.
	Also, I'm not sure about the cafeteria scene that Tucker's possibly misremembering, but the torture chamber room, room 101, was named after a conference room at BBC headquarters where Orwell had to sit through numerous tedious meetings, apparently.
	It was, you know, a little inside joke that he threw in there.
	Yes, yes, yeah.
	Brits are cheeky.
	Who'd have thunk it?
	Yeah, it's not, oh, this is about the BBC. Like, fucking idiot.
	Right.
	Anyway, now a little anecdote from Russell.
	Because that is where we are now.
	Yeah, and it is about evil, isn't it?
	And you can see why the sense of evil is so continually beneath it, and sometimes the symptoms become so sort of...
	Do you feel it?
	Do you feel that these are...
	I mean, do you feel evil?
	Recently, I felt like...
	Someone sent a message to me.
	I was sort of friends with a kind of intellectual bohemian person I used to sort of do content and stuff with who's out of that whole beatnik scene and like doing ayahuasca and that aspect of sort of culture.
	Anyway, I'm disgusted by what you've become.
	He sent me like this message full of invective and loathing.
	And I thought like, wow, like what?
	And I saw for a moment.
	What does he say you've become?
	Well, I guess like a Christian, like a person, like a Christian.
	So like you're trying to start wars and enslave people?
	But this is a person who uses this sort of like intellectual kind of...
	It's so crazy!
	Okay, the guy who is against killing, who's for personal autonomy, he's not the problem.
	And if you think he is the problem, listen to yourself.
	Pause, listen to yourself.
	What are you so mad about?
	The guy's trying to stop a war?
	Why does that make you angry?
	Maybe you're serving the wrong master.
	Right?
	What?
	Okay, wait.
	That was also not what was...
	What?
	What was the stopping the war thing?
	Okay.
	Well, he's saying that Russell is, you know, just a guy trying to stop a war and a Christian and not, in fact, an alt-right propaganda spewing conspiracy theorist who lies to his audience for money and appears to have committed many, many crimes against women, which I imagine is what the message towards Russell was getting at.
	You know, this is why, you know, I dislike you now.
	This person he used to work with.
	I would love to know who it was from and to be able to actually see the thing in full.
	Because I'm willing to bet it wasn't, I hate you because you're a Christian now.
	I don't think that would have been the message, you know?
	No, I don't think so.
	That's the thing.
	Just because you read it does not mean you understand it.
	No!
	No!
	I need you to reflect your reading comprehension in your actions.
	I need to see it.
	Yeah, it's some A-plus rationalizing, though.
	You know, like, oh, this person must hate me because I'm a Christian.
	Yeah, keep telling yourself that, buddy.
	Like, whatever hole of denial you need to crawl into.
	Keeps getting deeper.
	Okay.
	Mm-hmm.
	Mm-hmm.
	Anyway, this whole debacle ends the only way it was ever going to, and that is with a prayer.
	I think that is one of the conclusions we could successfully draw.
	Tucker, thank you for breaking bread.
	We could end on a prayer if you're uncomfortable.
	I would love it!
	Alright, will I do it?
	No, of course!
	Come on.
	You're Russell Brand.
	I'm Russell Brand now.
	That's who I've become.
	Thank you, Heavenly Father, for this conversation and for this opportunity for us to I'm very mindful of the edict that those that pray on street corners and praying and showing off is something I have to be aware of.
	I've been a right show off, Lord.
	Please allow me to just be willing and happy and content with the glory that is yours to be a servant in your name, a servant among servants.
	Thank you for the gift of Tucker Carlson and the gift of his conversation and for the opportunity to explore these ideas together.
	Thanks for everyone that's working on the show tonight.
	And thank you for that Pilate's grace that allowed him to land sideways.
	In your holy name we pray.
	Amen.
	Like, does he think that, like, referencing the part in the Bible about praying in private while praying on camera sort of, like, cancels it out?
	Like, oh, as long as I mention it, it's fine.
	Like, I found a loophole.
	It's fine, isn't it?
	You know?
	Man, think about if you had the confidence of a, like, listener, go with me.
	You had the confidence of a rich, like, a filthy rich famous white guy.
	Hmm.
	Just what a fucking breeze life would be.
	It's incredible.
	Well, it was only two days after this, you know, after bringing this up in this on-camera prayer, that he was then on a stage praying next to Jordan Peterson.
	You know?
	um yep you're absolutely right uh i just i'm i can't fathom being that unshameful like being shamed for things that you don't deserve you know and like be feeling guilt about things you don't deserve and then get that that's a loaded um you know like a caveat right But,
	like, just cruising with no shame when you 100% deserve it.
	You should be embarrassed, adult.
	You should be ashamed of yourself for comporting yourself this way in the world.
	And then publishing it.
	Yeah.
	They should be embarrassed and they're not, and I don't understand it.
	I don't understand how, like...
	Saying things that are so wrong is just, like, groovy for you.
	That's incredible to me.
	Yeah, no, I mean, well, this is it.
	Like, when you are a person who feels shame, it is difficult to countenance, like, someone who is shameless, you know?
	It sure is.
	It's a real struggle, because, yeah, and especially when it comes to, like, being wrong about stuff, because both you and I hate that, you know?
	That's a feeling that, you know...
	I don't hate it.
	When I find out the thing, and then I get to be corrected, and I know better, it's tight.
	I love it!
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	It's great!
	I've talked about this a lot.
	I think...
	Learning.
	Celebrate, like, that feeling when something is, like, when you get new information that you didn't have...
	Mm-hmm.
	It's awesome to know things you did not know before.
	That's my feeling.
	That's how I feel.
	That's my response in the world.
	Genuinely, I'm not just talking here.
	That's genuinely how I feel.
	I feel relief when I have more information where I had a dearth previously.
	I think that's fucking awesome.
	And you do have to practice not feeling defensive and throwing a wall up whenever, like, maybe it's just either...
	Maybe it's not exactly what you need to know, but it's something different.
	And there is no good fucking reason to waste your time and effort throwing a fit before you're just like, oh, yeah, okay, well, yeah, I guess I wasn't totally right.
	Like...
	Falling in love with that fucking feeling of just fighting.
	I don't understand it.
	I don't understand.
	I mean, I guess that's what we're watching, though, is two guys romanticizing the fart huffing that they're doing.
	Yeah, I guess from my personal perspective, like, obviously, you know, I speak from a position of authority in this show.
	I would hate to communicate incorrect information from this position of responsibility, you know, in this show, right?
	You know, like, the learning experience, yes, but I would hate to convey incorrect information.
	These two don't have that feeling.
	Yeah, we should try to be as accurate as possible.
	Exactly.
	That should be the goal.
	Yes, yeah, yeah.
	These two do not seem to share in that feeling whatsoever.
	Listen, I feel like my death by embarrassment threshold is just different.
	Because the thing is, I don't want to be fucking embarrassed.
	I'm not embarrassed I don't know something.
	I'm embarrassed when I fucking double down and insist, and then I'm wrong?
	Why?
	Why do that?
	Hmm.
	Yeah.
	I just, okay, so the thing that, like, the part of the conversation that wasn't really addressed, because they don't know any better and they don't care and they don't feel that shame, is, like, Christian nationalism came straight out of Manifest Destiny.
	So if you, and Manifest Destiny, like, the notion of Manifest Destiny is profoundly colonial and profoundly Christian.
	That was, Christianity was used.
	In harmonious tandem with imperialism and conquering to bestow, to take the divine right of kings and then just be divine right of rich guys with all the power.
	We're not a king.
	We do have all the control and we do have all the stuff, but we're not kings, so it's fine.
	And actually, God thinks it's super tight and is completely on our side.
	So the link between Manifest Destiny, it's not a link.
	It's a fucking direct line from Manifest Destiny to Christian nationalism.
	And you cannot disavow one without disavowing the other.
	You can't sign off on one without the other.
	Yeah.
	What I think people don't understand is how intrinsic Christianity and the Bible and Scripture was Was perfect.
	There are parts of the Bible that were perfect little puzzle pieces to fit into the project of Manifest Destiny.
	So using the Bible to rationalize and to justify your actions through either manifest destiny and or Christian nationalism is profoundly fucking wrong.
	Or to say that the Bible is the reason that the borders of your country get to exist where they do, regardless of the situation.
	Because I can tell you honestly and completely, I know I'm right, that Jesus was not on board with that.
	Jesus was not on board with conquering and taking and destroying and wars in general.
	I think that's such a crazy fucking misunderstanding with the war slash anti-war, because no one's anti-war in America, as far as politics go.
	That's why people feel so disillusioned with making a choice with voting, is because...
	The policies, enough of the policies are virtually identical in how they end up affecting people.
	And if your foreign policy is the same on both sides, then yeah, it doesn't feel like you have much of a choice.
	And that's been true for like decades at this point.
	Yeah, yeah, like, that's very much what I was feeling internally when Tucker was saying, like, oh, you know, the people governing don't even care about, you know, the people who they're actually governing, you know, the people in charge don't care about anyone, you know, and...
	I've almost kind of forgotten and think they're unimportant.
	And I'm like, yeah, does fucking feel a lot like that.
	Yeah, it does.
	That feeling feels true.
	Like, everything you're saying around it is wrong, but that feeling, yes.
	Yes, definitely.
	Well, the purpose of a system is the product.
	So, what Tucker has been doing is making money for himself by terrorizing people, by being a stochastic terrorist.
	So he can say whatever words he wants to say.
	The product is what he should be held to.
	Period.
	And unfortunately, the way that quote-unquote free speech quote-unquote quote-unquote works in this country is he's not held accountable if he just is a stochastic terrorist.
	There has to be some kind of proof, like Alex Jones being able to prove that he made money talking about Sandy Hook, so then...
	That was a clear work product that he was...
	Mm-hmm.
	possibly prove it they have a legal team you know they know what they're doing a very powerful one and same thing like yeah they're flying just low enough under the radar I'm just I'm really worried that like Tucker is getting things so close to right and I'm not I'm not giving him credit I think he's a parrot.
	I don't think he understands anything except Tucker want money now.
	Tucker not like work, Tucker want money is the thing that's happening in his head.
	He wants to work as little as he can for the most amount of money that he can.
	And that impulse honestly can't say I blame him, but the way he does it, oh, I blame him a lot.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	That's a problem.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	Absolutely.
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	Love you, bye.
	Henry Kissinger's still dead.
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	That's not win-win-win.
	That's lie-lie-lie-lie-lie-lie-lie.

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