THE LIVESTREAM argues denominationalism is dead, urging Protestants, Catholics, and Orthodox to unite against cultural threats despite secondary disputes on baptism or Zionism. The host critiques Western churches for excommunicating members over politics while praising Orthodox patriarchal stability as a temporary fix for fatherlessness. He condemns equating the crucifixion with the Holocaust, advises parents to enforce daily home worship, and asserts Christians must politically colonize culture to create Christian nations rather than avoiding nationalism. Ultimately, the episode demands courageous leadership that admits faults and rejects compromise in the fight for Christendom's restoration. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
Time
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Why We Need Five-Star Reviews00:14:08
Leave us a five star review on your favorite podcast platform.
I get it.
It's annoying.
Everybody asks, but I'm going to tell you why.
When you give us a positive review, what that does is it triggers the algorithm so that our podcast shows up on more people's news feeds.
You and I both know that this ministry is willing to talk about things that most ministries aren't.
We need this content for the glory of God to reach more people's ears.
Hey, Pastor Joel, I was just wondering.
You know, I'm kind of shifting in my convictions, and I think I might be a little bit more Presbyterian than Baptist these days.
What do you think?
You know, what denomination should I join?
Should I be Presbyterian?
Should I be Baptist?
Or, you know, maybe Lutheran or maybe Anglican?
The wrong question.
It's the wrong question.
We're going to tell you exactly why in this episode.
You do not need to be thinking about which denomination to join.
It's not that it doesn't matter.
Your creeds certainly matter, your confessions also matter.
There's a high watermark for Christendom, and it is in the rear view mirror by at least a couple centuries at this point.
Can we get back there?
Can our children or children's children return and take Christendom even to higher levels than ever seen before, pushing for the crown rights of King Jesus over and across the earth?
Yes, absolutely.
But in this moment, it's bleak.
In this moment, it's dark.
We have to understand that right now, There is no retreat.
There's no surrender.
But we are losing.
We will not always lose.
But if we can't ever admit the reality that it's not great, then we're naive.
We're arrogant.
We're fools.
Right now is not the time to be choosing your particularities with each doctrinal conviction and deciding what denomination you are.
That's not where we are.
You need to be looking is there any church?
And if there's one, You are exceedingly blessed because right now the pickings are slim.
Is there one church within a 50 mile radius of my home that has courage, that has discernment, that knows what time it is?
Is there one church within a 50 mile radius of my home that will not excommunicate me for reading Pat Buchanan?
Is there one church within a 50 mile radius of my home that will not join the Zionist mob, the feminist mob, the anti racism mob?
And try to destroy my life, dox me on the internet, and make sure I'm unemployed so that I can't feed my kids.
Is there one church, one within a 50 mile radius?
Oh, it's a Baptist church.
Well, I'm Presbyterian.
I said we Baptist today, right?
Oh, it's a Presbyterian church, but I happen to be Baptist.
I said we Presbyterian today.
You do not need to be thinking in terms of denominations and particular convictions.
You look, especially on the East Coast, right, where we were first settled in these United States by Christians, and you see the remnants of the high water mark of Christendom.
You go down the main street in the downtown area of virtually every town on the East Coast, and what you will find is church after church after church on every single street corner.
Why?
They could afford division over theological particularities because they were victorious.
They were winning.
But when we're shrinking back, when the enemy is playing his hand and he has the upper hand, that's when we link arms.
That's not when we can afford to fracture.
That's when we link arms.
That's when a guy shows humility and will lead his family in a Presbyterian church while he has Baptist convictions because he knows we need to win the war.
All of the particular convictions, many, many churches that separate over this issue or that issue.
That's when we win.
When we win, we can afford to have these divides.
So, you don't need to be thinking, what denomination am I on the basis of what are all my thousands of particular theological convictions?
Instead, you need to be thinking, which church will have my back?
Which session of elders won't seek to ruin my life?
Oh, there's one decent Anglican church within a 50 mile radius that knows what time it is, has discernment, has courage.
Well, Then, as for me and my house, we're going to be Anglican, at least for the foreseeable future.
And if there is no singular church, not even one Baptist, Anglican, Lutheran, Presbyterian within a 50 mile radius, then you do everything within your power to either move or plant a church.
Those are your options.
Those are your only options.
Now, what's not an option is being churchless.
You must get your butt in a church.
You cannot give up.
On the bride of Christ.
Even if she's in disarray, God always preserves a remnant.
Find her, join her, and be faithful.
We're going to break it down today's episode.
Tune in now.
All right, we saw one of the comments there.
Somebody picked up on this.
It was unintentional, I promise, but he said, Joel said the words Creed, and he also said, Take it higher.
Can you take me higher?
I think it's time.
Right?
I mean, I don't know.
It's what the people want.
It's what the people want.
Brian Sauvay, that's a shout out to you.
You're going to have to record a Creed song, get it on the internet.
It was Santa Baby like two years ago.
Very painful.
This one, a lot funner.
Come on.
Yeah, it's Creed.
This is a good one.
The people want it.
Give the people what they want.
All right, this is our episode.
We're talking about denominationalism being dead.
And here's the deal it's dead because no one can keep their arms linked for longer than 15 minutes right now.
At every step of the way, it's like every six months, the Lord gives us a new providential litmus test.
And you see a team that you thought previously you were on divide right down, split right down the middle, and fracture.
We're splitting the penny a million times over.
And that's why, by the grace of God, and I mean truly, By the grace of God, because I was about this close 2022, 2023, you know, we're out here independent, planting a church in Georgetown.
We started in 2021.
So at that point, we're about a year, two years in.
And I was feeling that need of, I want extended body and fellowship with brothers in Christ.
I don't want to just be a one man show.
I don't want to be independent.
I don't want to just do my own thing.
I know that there is a strength.
And accountability within a local church and outside of a local church.
So, whether it's a fellowship or some affiliation or a network or denomination, I felt that.
I felt it intensely.
And I'm telling you, I was close, very close on multiple occasions to just throwing in the towel and saying, you know what, it's not perfect, but it never is.
And maybe it's just my own pride or my own stubbornness.
And I'm going to join this denomination or this group, this movement over here, submit myself.
And if I had, If I had, it would have been detrimental, absolutely detrimental.
You know what I'm talking about.
You know who I'm talking about.
Over the last two years, correct me if I'm wrong, over the last two years, have you not sat here just like me, watching from the outside, looking in, and seen entire denominations that we thought were based and Christ pilled turn on local churches, turn on sessions of elders?
Turn on independent members in one of those congregations and wrongfully excommunicate them because they denied the Trinity, right?
Heresy, top tier theological disagreement.
No, because they held to some revisionist World War II history, because they said something about Ben Shapiro, because like we've seen these petty disagreements elevated to the level of excommunication, men dragged before ecclesiastical courts.
For their Twitter page being, I don't know, just slightly to the right of the Israeli wire.
And all of a sudden they're being tried in ecclesiastical courts for whether or not they're regenerate, whether or not they're even.
We just saw this a month ago.
A man said, Hey, I don't want America to be India.
We talked about this, and his pastor said, You're gone from our church.
Yeah, that's what it culminated in.
I don't want my kids to grow up in America.
We're not exaggerating, making it up.
He was talking about immigration, H 1Bs.
He didn't say, Hey, I hope that India.
Gets bombed off of the face of the map, or oh, I hate Indian people and I hope they all go to hell, or oh, he didn't say anything like that.
He was just saying, I hope that India stays in India, at least for the most part, so that America can remain America.
Because I grew up as a kid in America and it was pretty great.
And I'd like for my children to have a similar experience.
Kicked out of his church.
And not just that, but certain individuals in his church also turned the turrets on his personal business and got him bombarded with one star negative reviews, calling him a racist.
So it wasn't just.
Hey, you can't be a part of our church.
It was also, we need to steal your livelihood.
We won't be happy with you excommunicated.
We won't be happy until your children are on our doorstep begging for food.
That's the state of the church today.
And so, my point is if you find a good church, I feel like the Billy Madison's, it was like, oh, hold on, stay, hold on as long as you can.
Yeah, but I'm really more of a pedo Baptist and they're a credo Baptist.
Dude, you don't know what time it is.
You think that we're in a position.
Where we have the luxury to wish that it was a pedo Baptist church instead of a credo Baptist?
No, no, sir.
That is the reward for total victory, total Christendom.
That's when you can afford for there to be a church on every single street corner.
They're all courageous, they're all wise, they're all godly.
They just differ on the particularities of theological conviction, and you have your pick of the lot, and it just all it really distinguishes is do I have a five minute drive to church on Sunday?
Or a six and a half minute drive on Sunday.
That time used to exist, and by the grace of God, I believe it can exist again, but that time is not now.
So you should not be thinking about what network or denomination do I join.
You should be thinking what one church, despite disagreement on particulars, if it's secondary and tertiary theological issues, what one singular church, not network of churches, what one individual church, despite some of these disagreements theologically, can I join because?
The ethos, the spirit of this church and its leaders and its people are aligned with me.
They know, like the sons of Issachar, they know the times and what Israel ought to do, right?
In this case, the church ought to do, the people of God ought to do.
And then you do everything you can.
You move heaven and earth to get in that church, join that church, be faithful in that church.
That's where we are.
To draw a parallel to masculinity, right?
The red pill movement was big a couple of years ago because a lot of men, honestly, they worked remote, they worked some type of corporate job.
And they just had to be taught hey, being a man means taking responsibility.
Being a man means being disciplined.
And you can teach someone all about it.
They can read all of the articles.
They can watch all the video courses.
They can listen to all the podcasts.
But practically speaking, flesh and blood on the ground, there's an aspect to it that can never be taught.
In the same way with the church, you will have people intellectually, you are on the same page as them.
We've had this in our own church.
There's been great guys, and on every single theological issue, it was check.
Check, check, check.
Man, there is perfect overlap on what we thought were all of our views.
But then the flesh and blood difference, disagreement happened.
Oh, actually, we're not as close a fit as we thought we were.
We checked all of these boxes intellectually.
Well, I agree with you here.
But then you got down to it.
Oh, this masculinity guy that talks big game, that's listened to all this and knows all these things, doesn't have a single callus on his hands and he can't do a 10 hour workday.
And so, in the same way, when it comes to the church, you may be in a church and it's like, well, my pastor's not post millennial, or my pastor's not Calvinistic.
Well, but your pastor is actually very wise when it comes to counseling.
Your pastor is very disciplined.
He's very godly.
He's very knowledgeable about the scriptures.
Don't take someone that will sit down, will look you in the eye, will give you wisdom, wise advice, spend time with you and say, even though all that stuff is good, you don't check this box, post Melinda.
You don't check this box, presuppositional.
That is not the issue.
These practical matters will he kick me out?
Will he have my back?
Will he give good marriage counseling?
Pragmatism Over Idealism In Church00:05:48
Matters so much more.
Not infinitely more.
It's not as though, well, he's good on this, but also as a one is Pentecostal.
Well, pump the brakes there, Chief.
But practically, he's Orthodox.
He's Protestant.
If you're a Protestant, And he's a good guy that's been in the trenches, prays for me, cares for my family, preaches faithfully.
Yeah, that's your guy more than he checks every single box, but push came to shove, had no spine whatsoever, and that fed me to the wolves.
Right.
And what we're saying, I think, is not that at one point in time, the church that you were a member of was a matter of idealism, and now it's a matter of pragmatism.
What we're saying is it's always been a matter of pragmatism.
It's just we're all men of our times.
At a time in the past, Christendom's flourishing.
And you can actually afford to be an idealist on theological matters.
But we've always, the church has always recognized pragmatism in church membership.
There's always a matter of location, there's a matter of demographics, right?
Am I going to a church that is all 65 plus and I have three young children?
Does it make sense for me to be in a church like that?
And so all of these things are things that men ought to consider when they're thinking about church membership.
And what we're simply saying is that you can't afford to sacrifice the four or five other important dimensions simply for theological purity.
Because you're not going to find that church anywhere.
Right.
That's a really good point, Antonio.
It's not that we're shifting from, you know, once it was theological and that was the emphasis, and now it's pragmatic and more practical.
Who's going to have my back?
And that's the emphasis.
No, it was theological because you could afford.
Now, listen, you can always afford theological convictions when it comes to, think of theological triage, when it comes to top tier primary theological doctrine, right?
Salvation, soteriology, doctrine of God, theology proper.
These kinds of things, you can always afford that.
In fact, if you're living in a time where all these things are being denied, then it's like Athanasius.
It's contra mundum against the whole world, even if you're all on your own.
So you stand your ground if we're talking a matter of heresy, right?
A denial of top tier primary theological issues, a denial of those things is a matter of heresy.
It's a matter of heaven and hell.
So it doesn't matter what age the church is in, you always prioritize that.
What we're talking about is the secondary and tertiary theological convictions.
And in prior times, thinking 100 years ago, certainly 200 years ago, certainly 300 years ago, in the West, by and large, in the last couple of centuries, these second and third tier theological issues seem to be the sole emphasis of distinguishing between which church or denomination or whatever you were going to be a part of.
And the reason why is not because back then people cared about theological convictions, again, talking about secondary and tertiary.
And now they care more about pragmatism over theological issues.
No, it's because back then pragmatism was assumed.
You could assume that 99% of churches 200 years ago weren't raging feminist, they were not communist, they were not anti racist liberals, you know, or raging Zionist or whatever.
The pragmatism, it's not that we used to care about theology, but now, you know, Joel's become more of a pragmatist.
And I don't like that transition.
I think that shows that he's compromised.
No, we were always pragmatists, but pragmatism, that element, that's not all we were, but it was always there.
It was always a part of the equation.
And the reason that it wasn't always emphasized is because, for the most part, every denomination and every single church was on board.
Every single church in the West, a couple hundred years ago, was on board with these basic cultural, practical elements of not being feminist, of not being communist, of not, you know, this, that, and the other.
And so when that was.
In line, and every church was pretty much on board.
It's not that pragmatism did not matter then, it's that pragmatism did matter then, but it wasn't thought about, it wasn't spoken about because it was an assumed.
Today, it's not, and that's why we're having to bring it up.
So, we're not saying these cultural and practical familial elements like will my church love me and my children?
Will my church get my back and not excommunicate me and try to destroy my business?
We're not saying that this has elevated above all.
All theological issues.
We're saying at this moment, because the church is in such sad shape, in such disarray, this pragmatic element has at this point risen to a priority above theological convictions in the secondary and tertiary categories, never primary.
I think that that's a fair argument.
Yeah.
We've mentioned this before as well, especially if you were reformed, the Young Restless Reform movement.
You very much so had this sense that church was always kind of the launching pad for everything.
So it was matchmaking.
Where do I find someone to marry?
Well, that's my local church.
I want to start a business.
Who do I start it with?
Somebody in my local church.
Where do I have my friends?
Where do I have my fellowship?
Where do I have my community?
Well, it's Sunday morning and it's Sunday night.
And it's my gospel group on Mondays.
It's my men's group on Tuesdays.
It's prayer meeting on Wednesdays.
Men's prayer breakfast on Saturdays.
This local church, this idea, it's everything.
It's your friendships where you find people to marry.
It's where you do business.
And a lot of us had that mindset.
Well, the church is all of those things.
And there are certainly times, especially when you're under fire.
That the church will be that, that the church is where men band together and run for political office, where they start businesses.
Launching Pad For Life And Business00:03:54
But practically speaking, your church doesn't have to be that.
In a time past, it wasn't the case that every single marriage that came out, every single friendship was always going to be tied to the local church.
Men would have friends, acquaintances, business, all these different things.
And then on Sunday, one day of the week, on the Lord's Day, they may go and spend time with people they don't actually see very much during the week.
Now, that's not to say they were lacking in friendships, lacking in opportunities, lacking in starting businesses, but it is to say, Hey, I'm in a church and people aren't necessarily starting businesses here.
They're not doing this or doing that.
That's great.
You have a whole town.
You have a whole area, a whole city.
You have, due to the internet, you have people all over the country you can do that with.
It does not have to be your local church.
Don't feel in your conscience bound.
Hey, it's a small church.
I live in a small town.
The church in it is small.
These guys have to be all of it?
No, not at all.
You can say, hey, I go here on Sunday morning.
I faithfully give to support the work.
I take the Lord's Supper, take the sacraments, participate in baptism.
I encourage, sing, attend the message, encourage my pastor.
And the other six days of the week, I'm working.
Six days shall you labor and do all your work.
And the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God.
So, very much so, if you don't feel it already, feel your conscience freed from the need for your local church to be everything.
That's great if it is.
That's great if all your friendships and everything come from it.
But it doesn't have to be.
You have done no wrong if you have a little bit of different community Sunday versus the rest of the week.
Very well said.
All right.
So, this is what we're going to do for this string.
I want to spend some extra time on super chats today.
I want to get to it sooner.
So I want to let everybody know, especially if you're a new listener, you may not be aware.
What we do is we typically have three segments, right?
So, this is segment number one.
We're about to go to our first message from our sponsors.
Then we'll come back.
We're going to flesh out this idea a little bit more.
Then we'll do our last commercial break.
And then the third segment is our super chat.
So, here's the drill you send in a super chat.
This is the unspoken deal, but it's kind of spoken because I'm speaking it right now.
The unspoken deal that we've made is if you write a comment or a question and you send it to us as a super chat, your comment or question will be read live.
On the air, this is a live broadcast, so it will be addressed live on the air.
So, start sending those in now.
And for anybody who's new to the channel, just so that you know our schedule, we broadcast live three times a week.
We do Monday, Wednesday, and Friday at 3 p.m. Central Time, and we are broadcasting live simultaneously on two platforms YouTube and X. All right, so YouTube and X. If you're on YouTube, subscribe and click the bell.
Do it now, subscribe, click the bell.
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Same thing, give us a follow and click the bell so that you'll be notified.
So, YouTube and X, that's where we're broadcasting live simultaneously three times a week Monday, Wednesday, Friday at 3 p.m. Central Time.
Within about one to two hours after the stream is cut, once we're done, then we upload it to our website, our app, and your podcast platform Apple, Spotify, XYZ.
Okay, so I want to have time for super chats, get them in now.
Get them while they're hot.
Send in the super chats.
We'll do that in the third segment.
We're going to go to our first commercial break.
We'll come back probably for a shorter segment, about 15, 20 minutes.
Flesh out this idea a little bit more, a little bit more practicalities.
Go to our last commercial break and then start dealing with the super chats, which means if you're watching, if you're caught up to speed right now, within about 20, 25 minutes, we're going to be doing the super chats.
So get them in.
Let's go to our first commercial break now.
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All right, for our second segment, this is the question of the hour.
I talked about different Protestant denominations.
I applied the principle within the Protestant realm.
But what about Catholics?
What about Eastern Orthodox?
Does the principle cross?
Over the aisle, even to the realm of Protestant versus Catholic versus Eastern Orthodox.
To kind of frame this segment, that's what we'll be dealing with, and then we'll get to the super chats in our final third segment.
But to frame this, I'm going to use one of the super chats preemptively.
This is from Located Goose.
He gave us $5.
We appreciate that.
Thank you.
He said, Christian unity with Catholic and Orthodox relatives that seem to bear real Christian fruit.
So he's asking, like, what about Christian unity with Catholic and Orthodox relatives that seem to bear real Christian fruit?
Fruit.
What do you think about that?
All right.
So that's the question.
That's what we're going to be dealing with.
Does this principle that we've been outlining say, hey, don't be looking for a denomination with all your theological particularities in the secondary and tertiary theological categories?
Rather be looking for a local church, not a denomination, but one independent local church where you'll align with the elders, with the congregation, in the big things in terms of they're not going to excommunicate me, they're going to get my back, they know what time it is, they have a spine, they have courage, and we agree on the top tier primary theological convictions.
That's a non negotiable.
But we may have some particular theological distinctions, disagreements in the secondary and tertiary categories.
So that's the principle as we've espoused it thus far.
Does this principle apply further beyond just Presbyterian to Baptist to Anglican to Episcopalian to Methodist to X, Y, and Z, Lutheran?
Does it apply across the Protestant aisle all the way to Catholics and to EEO?
That's what we're going to be fleshing out in the second segment.
Wes, what do you think?
There's something really to be said for worshiping in a place where you can do it in good conscience.
So, even with the Baptist example, let's say you find a Baptist church, and honestly, the man there, like we described, like the quintessential man of the people, the pastor there is objectively a good man, a good father, a good husband, all the qualifications of elder.
And he's a guy with calluses on his hands that's not going to kick you out.
But Sunday morning, there's an American flag on one side of the stage, an Israel flag on the other.
And he doesn't make a big deal about it.
But still, if you're a right response top guy, you enjoy what we say.
You have some major differences with that.
And that objectively, again, we've said, hey, prioritize more church that's not going to kick you out.
Prioritize leaders that care about you and care about your soul.
Objectively, that's still going to be a tough pill to swallow.
So expand the concept.
In this case, it's a disagreement over dispensationalism.
Expand the concept again and say you're a Baptist in a tiny town.
And all the Baptist churches are gay, all the Presbyterian churches are gay.
But there's a Catholic church that maybe it's a priest that's online that's known as being based.
Can you go there?
And our answer would be, and we all kind of agreed, it would be a no.
And that's not necessarily because maybe he's not a good guy.
It's because you can't go there.
The differences, as large as they are, they're real and they're meaningful.
You can't go there every Sunday and not begin to chafe at it.
Because, like we were saying, in terms of theological triage primary, secondary, tertiary because the differences when it comes to Catholic versus Protestant versus EO, they stretch all the way up.
Not every single thing, but there are some things that stretch all the way up into that primary category.
It's Definitely some secondary and tertiary differences, but there are also some primary differences.
Now, what do we not mean by that?
We don't mean, therefore, Catholics are our biggest enemy, or we hate them, or we can't partner with them, or love them, or have meaningful friendship with them.
That's not what we're saying at all.
You guys who've been following the ministry, you know that that's not the position that we've taken.
And we've received a lot of flack from some of our more autistic, reformed, Protestant brothers in Christ, who we also love, but we disagree when it comes to.
To what extent can we partner with Roman Catholics and with Eastern Orthodox people?
You know, what extent can we partner?
What we're saying is that when it comes to, I've got to have a local church that loves my family, that preaches the Bible, and that's not going to excommunicate us, that has a general sense, the ethos, the spirit of Issachar, knowing the times, that has a spine, that has courage.
When it comes to this, Yes, we think that you should be able to step across at least temporarily.
It may be a year, it may be five years, it may be 10 years.
I don't know.
Let's see.
Let's see if we win.
Let's see if we can get some victories.
Right now, I don't know about you, but the, oh, Mr. President, it's too much winning.
I'm not feeling it.
I'm not feeling too much winning.
In fact, I'm not feeling hardly any winning.
So we're not there.
And maybe we're there by the grace of God in one year, five years, 10 years, 15 years, 20.
I don't know.
But until we're there, temporarily, being willing to step across denominational boundaries, we think is vital, that it's absolutely necessary, that finding a church that won't excommunicate you, that disagrees on mode of baptism, is of more value, that there's A greater immediate urgency in that and finding that caliber church than finding a church that agrees with you on every secondary and tertiary theological issue.
But there are primary distinctives.
There are primary differences when we're talking about not just Presbyterian to Baptist denominationally, but we're talking about Protestant to Catholic to EO.
So, with these guys, what does that mean?
What it means is that you have six days a week.
You have six days a week where you can partner and link arms and love and be charitable and be on mission together in the realm of politics and culture, fighting political battles, fighting cultural battles.
You can join.
I wouldn't just say you can.
I think that if you don't, if you're not willing to link arms with Catholics and Eastern Orthodox to fight Monday through Saturday political and cultural battles, then you are.
Committing an unforced error, you are unnecessarily splitting the ranks, and we're not going to win.
We are not going to win.
You are causing our team to fall on its sword unnecessarily.
You are choosing to be so autistic that you cause the broader body of Christ to commit cultural and political suicide.
I think that that is foolish.
However, I think that there is also an error.
On the other side of the road, another ditch that you can fall into that you can say, Well, because I have these Catholic friends, or if you're Catholic, these Protestant friends, or these Eastern Orthodox friends.
And although I disagree with their infatuation with essential oils, I'm looking at you, EO bros, although I disagree with this, we found so much commonality, so much commonality in the realm of fighting the cultural battle and fighting the political battle.
And there's so much camaraderie and a sense of brotherhood Monday through Saturday.
Why don't we just transfer that over into Sunday as well?
And what I'm saying is that you can't.
And we love Catholics and we love Eastern Orthodox, but you can't.
At the end of the day, what we're talking about is a balanced, I know we don't like this word, but nuanced view.
What we're advocating for is more unity in culture and politics, the broader team pushing back on the communists.
We're advocating for that broader unity.
But we're not advocating for that on Sunday morning when it comes to the pew.
We're not advocating that in the theological category.
We're saying you can overlook temporarily tertiary and secondary issues.
You cannot even temporarily overlook primary disagreements.
At the end of the day, the divide between Rome and Protestants still exists.
And at the end of the day, eventually, when we've pushed back the orcs, Then dwarves and elves, you can decide which, you know, who gets to be who, Protestants or Catholics, but the dwarves and elves still have their disagreements and they matter.
They are still distinct.
And you're going to eventually have to hash that out.
Now, I will end by saying this.
We've said it publicly a few times, but if you're new to the channel, I want you to hear this too.
My prayer for Roman Catholic friends is not that Rome is utterly removed, but that it is rather restored.
I hope that Rome is restored.
And I'll go further than that.
Not only is it my hope, not only is it my aim, not only is it my prayer, but it's also my inclination.
It's what I lean towards.
I think that if I had to guess, if I were a betting man, I believe that in the providence of God, that the schism between Protestants and Catholics, that God would prefer to reconcile, repent.
You can't reconcile apart from repentance.
There are some things Protestants must repent of, by the way, and some things that Catholics must repent of.
But when I think of the heart of God, the nature of God, and the providence and plan of God, I believe it's more likely, if I were to guess, that God plans to reconcile rather than utterly remove one or the other.
I think that it is possible, not because Protestants are so great and not because Catholics are so great, but because God is so great and exceedingly kind, I believe that it is possible for God to restore even a 500 year old rift.
I believe in the power of the gospel and the gospel, which is the power of God unto salvation.
The power and potency for the gospel to change even massive, massive divides and to heal even gaping wounds.
I actually believe that that's possible.
But until that happens, and that should be our aim and that's our prayer, but until that happens, then no, on Sunday, that is the one day a week where those distinctions absolutely persist, those differences absolutely matter, and we can't pretend that they don't.
But Monday through Saturday, those six days of the week, that's when Protestants and especially some of the Reformed Autistic bros have to stop dressing up in costumes and LARPing and trying to relive the Reformation.
I don't want another Reformed Five Solas Tulip Conference.
We have been running it back with that every year from every Reformed ministry forever, forever, for half a millennia.
It's enough right now.
That is not the main topic of conversation.
Right now, the main topic, the most urgent issue that we should be thinking about Monday through Saturday is will we still have a country?
Will my kids grow up in America?
Um, will there be an economy in six months?
You know, like what is going on?
Um, mass deportations must happen, mass arrests.
Must happen.
These are the things that we should be working towards politically and culturally Monday through Saturday, and we need to receive and welcome every fighting man we can get, whether he's Protestant, Catholic, or Eastern Orthodox.
But you have to, if you're Catholic, you need a Catholic church.
If you're Protestant, you need a Protestant church.
If you're EO, you need an EO church one day a week on Sunday.
And it needs to be somewhere that you can drive your family to weekly to participate.
In communion with the people of God in the church.
And if you don't have that, if you don't have that, then you either have to plant it or you have to move.
Those are your options.
Antonio, any thoughts?
No, well said.
I would just call back to the fact that we talked about the dimensionality of church membership and the pragmatism involved in that.
You can just think a loose analogy.
You think about relationally, just with a friend.
The more distinctives you overlook, there are trade offs.
The less things you could do with the friend.
If they're not interested in half as many things as another friend, That friend has a limiter scope in terms of things that you guys could find unity in.
And so, very similarly, as we talk about Protestant denominations and then we look at EO and Catholicism in comparison, what we're saying is there's more distinctives.
And as a consequence, there's more trade offs, there's more friction, there's more chafing.
And at some point, those things, just thinking pragmatically, start to outweigh any potential benefit you would get from the thing.
So, even if we just think very pragmatically, would I. You know, my conscience would be violated, you know, theologically speaking.
But would I even be as close to these people as I would in a Protestant church?
Probably not.
There's more distinctives, there's more trade offs, conversations, the things that you do, you know, outside of church, in the way that, you know, going back to Wes's point, that the extent to which the church actually, you know, any activities transition into the week, six, you know, the other six days of the week, those things become more limited.
And so we're talking about robust church membership.
We're talking about, you know, pragmatically speaking, just Finding good relations in the church and building a life to the extent that you can in the church, those things are going to be more limited if you violate that sort of clear traditional distinctives of Catholicism, EO, and Protestantism.
So that's how I think about it.
I would say, well said.
Yep, that's well said.
Orthodoxy Beyond Western Borders00:07:54
All right, let's go to, like I said, we're going to spend some extra time with the super chats today.
Let's go to our final commercial break.
Remember, if you have a question or comment and you want it to be read live on the air, then send it in as a super chat.
We are seeing, if you're ever wondering, I always put myself in the position of the viewer if you're actually watching the video on YouTube or X or whatever.
If you're ever wondering why their eyes are doing this, is there a butterfly in the room?
Is there a ghost?
Maybe a Nephilim or something that they're looking at?
We've got screens all over the room, and that's our way of being able to stay up with the chat.
Your chat is not in vain, I guess.
Sometimes I don't think you guys even care because we're talking about something and you guys are just arguing about something that has literally nothing to do with the topic whatsoever.
We don't take offense.
I know it just sounded like I take offense.
I really don't take offense.
That's fine.
So sometimes you guys are having your own powwow and you probably don't care if we're watching or not.
But every single live stream we are watching.
So your comments and your questions, your chat is not in vain.
However, we simply don't have time to get to every comment and every question.
There are tons of them.
And so what we decided a few months back is we've got to prioritize the people who are supporting this ministry.
So the super chats.
That's kind of the unspoken agreement.
Is and sometimes we, I mean, we've stayed on here doing super chats for over an hour because we're going to get to every single one.
They're going to get read live on the air.
So if you have a comment or you have a question and you want it to be addressed and read live on the air, send it as a super chat.
If it's not a super chat, we're reading it throughout the show, but we're not going to be able to have time to address it because at this point we just have too many super chats.
So that's what we're going to do again.
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All right, we're back.
Let's do the super chats.
First one is synced up, ready to go.
This is from King Jerd.
He gave us two bucks.
We appreciate that, King.
Thank you.
He said, Why are ortho bros so insufferable?
So he's talking about Eastern Orthodox.
Why are the ortho bros so insufferable?
His wording, not mine, just for the record.
I'll start by tipping the hat, give a little bit of credence to the ortho bros on patriarchy.
Fantastic.
They're pretty good.
I mean, if we're doing, you know, there's always.
Some bad apples in every bunch.
But if we were doing percentages and we take every Protestant church in America and then we take every Eastern Orthodox church in America and we say, how many, what percentage of the Protestant churches in America are feminist?
And then we say, what percentage of the Eastern Orthodox churches in America currently, right now, today, are feminist?
Well, the Eastern Orthodox guys, the ortho bros, as we charitably refer to them, They're going to eat our lunch.
What percent of churches had a woman preach on Sunday?
Right.
Protestants, Orthodox.
Correct.
Orthodox would be zero essentially.
If we also said, sadly, if we said, what percentage of Protestant churches, and that includes the main lines, have a rainbow flag out front or on the building?
Zero.
Orthodox, zero.
Protestants, a lot more than we would like to admit.
Not zero.
If we say, okay, well, maybe culturally they're a little bit more conservative, normie, albeit, but somewhat conservative.
But they're teaching prosperity gospel, health, wealth, you know, word of faith.
Joel Osteen, Joyce Meyer, you know, all these, Benny Hinn, Protestant, pretty rough, pretty rough.
So I wanted to say that just to give a little bit of credence.
And honestly, one more the Ortho Bros, a high percentage of them are not Zionist.
They are J-pilled, as the kids say.
The Israel question.
They are not dispensationalists.
We'll just say that.
The Ortho Bros have shown far more resilience to the power of Schofield than the Protestants have, at least modern Protestants in America today.
So give them a little bit of credence, tip the hat where it's due.
That said, in terms of insufferability, well, I'll speak for myself here.
There's the behavior aspect, disposition.
And, you know, kind of the way that some of them, not all, but some of them conduct themselves online.
But then also, if we're saying just the positions and some of their, you know, just the way that they think and some of the things that they might emphasize, getting a little bit more doctrinal.
So, not just disposition, you know, the way they behave themselves online, but doctrinal, their position.
I'll speak to that second part, their position, doctrinal, aside from some of the clear, Theological distinctions that we would have between Protestants and Eo Geist.
The West Is Severed From Fathers00:07:07
There's just a general sense in which Eastern Orthodoxy is precisely that.
It is Eastern, it is not Western.
The divide from Augustine, you know, these kinds of things.
And so I think part of, you know, the bristling that, you know, both Protestants and Catholics in the West feel when it comes to our Eastern Orthodox friends is this sense of, It's foreign to the West.
Eastern Orthodoxy is foreign to the West.
It is not Western.
And so there's a.
I heard someone once say he called it the Mr. Miyagi complex.
He said, you know, part of what's happened in the West because of the post war consensus, because of, you know, two world wars, you know, in the West, brother wars, you know, Christians fighting against Christians, Europeans fighting against Europeans, and all the deracination that came about as a result of that.
One of the premier elements, That we face in the West is fatherlessness.
It's this profound sense of young men feeling estranged from any kind of father figure, and especially, not just including, but especially spiritual fathers.
And so the Mr. Miyagi complex is the idea that, you know, if you ever watch The Karate Kid, you know, you've got a typical white boy in the 90s, or maybe it was the 80s, I can't remember when the films were made, but in that time period, 80s, 90s, typical white boy who Has an absent, you know, he doesn't have a father.
And so what happens?
Well, thanks to the Heart Cellar Act, you know, there's Mr. Miyagi, you know, and they cross paths, and Mr. Miyagi, he fills the void.
He fills that role of a father.
He teaches him discipline, he teaches him self defense, he teaches him hard work, he teaches him patience and concentration and all those kinds of things that typically the father would play that role.
But because the father is missing, Then there's this older, you know, ancient, wise Asian man who fills the father role.
And I do think that there's some element of that in the West because we're deracinated, because we're severed from spiritual fathers in the West because of clear compromise, both from Catholics and from Protestants for decades and decades now, we've been vulnerable.
And so for there to be this strong masculine presence, That's Eastern, so it feels foreign on the one hand.
It's not Western.
It's Eastern, but it's still strong on patriarchy.
It's strong against Zionism and against feminism and some of these things.
And it's distinctly masculine and feels fatherly, although it's foreign on the one hand, it's fatherly on the other.
And when you have a bunch, I mean, you have an entire generation of Western young men who feel fatherless.
Then that's going to be appealing.
I don't think that it's the long term solution for the West.
I don't.
I'm not Eastern Orthodox.
I don't know what to tell you.
I'm just not.
So I don't think it's a long term solution, but I can see why there has been not just a slight tick up.
Let's be honest.
It's still the minority report here in the West, Eastern Orthodoxy.
But if you look at it in terms of where it was even just 10 years ago and where it is today, Eastern Orthodoxy, its presence in the West and here in these United States has grown exponentially over the last decade.
And I think it's largely because of this fatherless issue that I've been espousing.
I think that if that changes, if Protestants and Catholics get it together and start producing a strong masculine ethos that fills that fatherless void for young men in those traditions.
Then you'll see Eastern Orthodoxy start to kind of file back because it is, again, at the end of the day, foreign to the Western experience.
So, why are EO bros insufferable?
Well, disposition, behavior online.
Yo, guys, I mean, let's just be honest.
They live online.
They're not touching grass very often.
They live online.
So, anybody who lives online will feel insufferable from time to time.
Aside from that, in terms of not disposition, behavior, but position, aside from the clear theological distinctives, there's just the overarching sense that it's foreign.
It's Eastern.
We are Western.
And I think that's part of what makes it feel insufferable.
But I think there's a reason.
Why, despite the foreign element, it's still grown as much as it has over the last decade in the West.
And it's because the West is currently fatherless.
And the Mr. Miyagi complex is real.
So that's my answer.
Ready to go to the next one?
Yeah.
I was just going to say churches that did good during COVID got a boost.
And Eastern Orthodoxy, I think, got a lot of that boost for coming up on four or five years since COVID.
And some of the excitement is dying down.
Practically speaking, they are a very small percentage of churches in America.
That's not me being mean.
That's just objectively looking at the facts.
They're a small population.
They had a bit of a growth, but it seems to be tempering off.
And so we'll see how much staying power it has here.
Right.
All right.
Next one.
All right.
MN, I'm thinking that stands for Minnesota.
Homesteading sent $5.
Thanks for the five bucks.
Question What is your current view on pedo baptism and what would convince you to switch?
Baptize your babies versus don't.
Also, how much do you dislike Minnesota?
That's a great question.
I love Minnesota, but I don't love Somalia.
And so unfortunately.
You love Minnesota.
Cheese curds, cold weather.
Minnesota, like Minnesota 50 years ago, don't you know?
Right?
Does that count?
Is that Minnesota?
Like Minnesota nice?
Isn't that like literally a Midwest nice?
Yeah.
I'm down for that.
People are nice to you, but it's negative 30 degrees.
Right.
Well, here's the deal though.
Like, let's be honest.
All of America is getting rocked by immigration.
But the fact that Minnesota has gotten rocked a little bit more, should we say, than others, it might be precisely because of the Minnesota niceness that made them so uniquely vulnerable.
So, yeah, I think I would have enjoyed visiting, not living, but visiting Minnesota 50 years ago, certainly not today.
And the Minnesota niceness, they might need to make some adjustments to that because it might be why Minnesota has become Somalia.
To answer the question, Pato, Credo, those kinds of things, over the years, I have evolved.
Baptism Mode Is Secondary Issue00:11:13
I'm not going to sit here and pretend like I haven't.
I get it.
I get it.
There was a time, you know, if you'd asked me five years ago, I mean, I think pretty much everybody knows that my public facing persona on this issue of baptism has been very, let's, I think we can say very pedo friendly, very infant baptism friendly.
Most of my relationships at this point are with pedo Baptist, if not pretty much all of them.
So I have been very friendly for a while.
That's not a recent development.
I'd say for the last four years, I've had a lot of respect.
For Presbyterians, Anglicans, you know, you fill in the blank.
Yes, it is true.
I have not personally officially made the switch.
But what I will say is the older I get, I'm never going to care about anything less than the Bible.
But the older I get, I start to care about other things in addition to the Bible, in addition to the Bible.
And I understand, you know, when people are biblicists, which sounds like a compliment, that sounds like a win, that is not the W that you think it is.
Biblicism is a problem, right?
It's just me and my Bible.
I'm not a Calvinist, I'm a Biblicist.
You know, I'm not Arminian, I'm a Biblicist.
You think that's a brag?
It's actually not.
This is what I've realized.
And it took me a while to get there.
But over the last few years, I've said it a number of times.
I'll say it again.
Everybody is confessional.
It's not whether but which.
Everyone has a confession.
It's either a tried and true historic confession that stood the test of time, that was comprised and written by better, wiser men than you, or it's your own ad hoc confession that you're subconsciously writing in your head as you go along through life.
But everyone has a confession.
You do.
It's either Pastor Fred's confession, you know, whatever he thinks in the moment in your, you know, independent fundamental Baptist church, or it's, you know, the Westminster confession, you know, or the LBC confession or whatever.
So everybody is confessional.
The question is just is it a good confession?
Is it an old confession?
Is it a well reasoned confession?
And so the more I grow and the more I look at history, Not substituting the Bible for history, but the more I look at history alongside the Bible, and I'm weighing both of these, the Bible being the only infallible, the only infallible arbiter of truth.
But history, although not infallible, is still waiting.
It's still waiting when the vast majority of the church held one particular position over and against the other for centuries and centuries and centuries.
To slough that off and pretend as though that's not significant is foolish.
And so when I look at history, And then also, as I've begun to care more deeply about politics, and when I look at national bonds and I look at a national conception of the polis, you know, and I think of the ways that pedo baptism and that particular scheme of covenant theology incorporates the whole national polis.
I get it.
I get it.
So, have I officially switched teams?
No, I have not.
Will I?
I don't know.
I don't have an answer for you guys.
I don't plan on it.
But do I understand?
Am I sympathetic?
Do I have a sneaking suspicion in the back of my mind that there are profound reasons for the Pado position?
And yeah, yeah, of course I do.
I want Protestants ultimately to come out on top.
America was a Protestant nation.
I would like it to remain that way.
I don't know.
I don't know if that's going to happen, but I hope that it does.
I will admit.
If it does, if Protestants win, I do think that it will be pedo baptism.
I think it'll be some version, some pedo Baptist version, be it Anglican or Presbyterian or something, that ultimately wins the day.
I understand that the SBC is the largest Protestant denomination in America, but we've talked about this before.
I'll say it again.
I think part of the reason why Baptist churches are as prevalent in America as they are. Is because they fit within the American spirit.
They honestly, it's the perfect church version embodiment of the American spirit.
But here's what I mean by that I don't mean the American spirit that you and I know and love.
I mean the worst of the American spirit.
I mean the rebellious American spirit, where everything is atomized, everything is individual, everything is severed.
Just me and my land and my guns.
No king here.
We have no sovereign here.
No one's in authority.
Yeah, we've done that in America for a couple centuries now.
IQ has gone down.
Lifespans have gone down.
Drag queen story hour has gone up.
I don't, I mean, at what point can we say the verdict has come back in and that our independent spirit might have just been a euphemism for a rebellious spirit?
Americans hate authority.
And I think Baptists on the ecclesiastical side of the aisle embody that.
Particular element of the American spirit, namely a hatred of authority, better than pretty much any Christian expression, any denomination in the nation.
And I don't know if that's a good thing.
And when I look at Baptist as a whole, I have some great Baptist brothers who share a lot of alignment with me.
But if I look at Baptist on the whole, most Baptists are retarded.
I mean, even just like seriously, I'm saying that, you know.
Facetiously, you know, using the R word in a facetious way.
But honestly, like, even if we were to use it in the technical sense, if we were to speak of that, I mean, you measure the average IQ of the average Baptist pastor and then pair it up with the average IQ of the average Anglican pastor, Presbyterian pastor, Lutheran pastor.
I mean, guys, that's just, I love Baptist.
I am a Baptist.
But let's be honest.
Baptist is kind of like, I don't know, it's kind of like the lightweight championship.
Like, who's the best fighter under 100 pounds?
Featherweight.
Featherweight championship.
That's just, that's what it is.
It's kind of a blue collar, anti intellectualism, anti authority, anti partnership, anti facts and logic, anti reason.
I mean, it's just, It's not great.
It's not great.
And I'm willing to admit it.
And I pastor a Baptist church.
I still hold to those convictions.
But I'm at the point now where the best answer I can give you to this question is I'm certainly not going to fight about it.
I'm certainly not going to make that the centerpiece of my ministry and my theological convictions.
I'm not going to say, you know, Joel Webbin, you know, what are the top, you know, 100 things that you're fighting for?
Credo baptism would not make the list, not even the top 100.
It wouldn't make the list.
And so I think that's kind of, honestly, I think that's in line with the whole title of this episode, the whole point of this episode.
Mode of baptism is a secondary theological issue because that's what we're talking about at the end of the day.
People will say, well, baptism, you know, that's primary.
No, it's not because we're not talking about baptism.
We're talking about mode of baptism, it's mode of baptism.
In every case, we are assuming that we are baptizing someone with water in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
So we're talking about a water baptism into the name of the triune God.
A Christian church baptizing an individual with water into the name of the triune God.
We're not debating that.
We're not talking about some alternative to that.
So it's all within that.
And then the question is simply is it immersion or is it pouring, sprinkling?
Is it after conversion or after someone says they're converted?
I mean, let's be honest.
How many Baptists have been baptized two, three, four, five, six times?
Right?
I mean, how many Baptist kids have been baptized every year at their Christian camp, you know, summer camp?
You know, they're a senior in high school and they're looking forward to their 12th baptism.
So were they all post conversion?
Right?
I mean, that's the whole idea of credo baptism believers' baptism.
Baptists, Honestly, I mean, let's just be honest.
Baptists probably baptize just as many unregenerate people as pedo Baptists do, if we're being honest.
Now, I understand that intent still matters.
The Baptist is at least attempting to baptize a believer, whereas infant baptism, they're not.
So I'm not going to pretend that that difference doesn't exist in terms of the difference of intent.
But my point is it's mode of baptism, it's not baptism wholesale.
Its mode of baptism.
Both are baptizing with water.
Both are baptizing someone that they believe is a part of the new covenant, right?
Whether it's their new covenant, but not yet regenerate, decretal elect versus just the new covenant being broader, stretching broader than that.
And both are, of course, baptizing into the name of the triune God.
And so, because of those things, it is, whether people want to admit it or not, it is a secondary theological issue.
And because it's secondary, and because I believe that these arguments are the luxury.
Of Christendom when it's victorious and not a luxury that we can afford when Christendom is on the ropes, then it's just not going to be a major emphasis of my focus or my ministry.
Fighting Nature At Tower Of Babel00:08:53
And so that's why I've kind of been resolved to hold my peace, stay where I am, be very friendly in my partnerships across the aisle.
And just not talk about it all the time.
Yep.
Any thoughts from you guys with that?
That was good.
Okay.
That was good.
We've got a civilization to save.
Yeah.
We've got a civilization to save.
All right.
Wes, you take the next one.
All right.
Cody Lee Galleon sent $5.
Thank you, Cody.
Any examples of nations that went multicultural that were able to regain their national identity?
Just want to know your opinion.
Antonio, you might have some examples in mind.
I'm going to be honest.
True multiculturalism.
I don't think it's there's it's really tough to find in history a good example of what's happened in the West in the last that's what I was going to say.
Globalism is what we're talking about, and has globalism been defeated before?
No, because we're talking about cultures.
So, like Russia, for instance, before and during the communist revolution, Russia contained a number of different ethnicities and cultures, right?
Ukraine versus the northern parts of Russia, there was distinct people that had distinct ways of life that all kind of shared a country together.
But practically, the difference between a Ukrainian and someone in Russia.
They were much smaller, right?
Common ancestry, typically common language, common economy.
When we're talking about, and what Cody's talking about here with multicultural, is India and America.
And honestly, the only thing that has made that possible mass air travel, global financial markets, and globalism.
Those haven't been done before.
So I don't know of an example of that.
Let alone intentionalism.
And democracy.
Democracy.
Yep.
The incentive to import those people.
I don't think that that's happened.
Even the examples you could say, for example, like Germany, like practically speaking, immigration went low.
There's still 80 to 90% German.
Nobody's reached the point where there's 60, 50% of your founding stock is the only thing that's left after massive immigration.
It's a matter of a couple generations, right?
It's just happened so quick and so intentionally that it's really difficult to find an analogy, even a loose analogy in history, that we can learn from, really.
So, yeah, it's tough.
I would say, as a matter of history, just generally speaking, the regaining of a national identity without scars feels very unlikely to me.
I mean, it's just as a matter of history, as history unfolds, whatever emerges out of this multicultural West that we have will be distinct, if only because it's.
Scarred by multiculturalism itself, it will feel distinct from the national identities that were previous to the sort of globalistic regime.
And so it's really tough to know what that will look like.
But I'm white pulled.
I think what we're doing and a lot of what we talk about is actually kind of trying to articulate what that recapture would look like.
There's no great playbook for it.
And so we really are, in a lot of ways, thinking on our feet as the consequence.
And one other thing I'll just say is, I've.
I have a sense that the consequences of globalism haven't even fully materialized.
Again, because it's so new, we are like daily, things are popping up that it's like, oh, okay, that's another terrible case in point of why this system is terrible.
So we're thinking on our feet.
We're trying to figure out what these problems are, what exactly we're trying to fight.
And so it's going to be tough to look in history and find some playbook.
Yeah, you're right.
I can think of one historical example where.
Everybody tried to be in one place, the same place, and partnered together and not be distinct and not spread out.
And it would be the Tower of Babel.
That's kind of the example that I think of.
God hated it, God judged them for it, confused their languages, made the distinctions exasperated to the point where they could not stay together even if they tried.
And my prediction would be that something similar would happen, not in a supernatural or preternatural sort of way, but a providential sort of way.
I think that, you know, that we will, you know, mankind failed the first time in its attempt to build a tower that stretched to the heavens, that rivaled God to make a name for himself so that he would not be scattered over the face of the earth.
It failed the first time, and I think it'll fail this time as well.
I mean, what we're living in in the West is basically just a modern Tower of Babel.
We have essentially humored ourselves into thinking that our advancements in technology somehow can overcome natural distinctions to the point where we no longer have to have distinct nations and distinct peoples.
And that we can, you know, this time it's a digital tower, you know, whether it's, you know, AI or whatever, fill in the blank.
But we're doing it again.
We're building a tower and saying, hey, we can all be in the same place and do the same thing all together.
And I think we're already finding that it doesn't work.
And I think ultimately the tower will collapse.
The question is, you know, this time, what will become of the people?
Will, Will the people be dispersed in God's kindness?
Because the Tower of Babel was a judgment, but it was a judgment wrapped around a mercy.
There was a kindness there because there's two options, really, of what could happen.
God, in his kindness, can disperse the people and then the tower falls later.
Or God cannot disperse the people.
They can remain there, be determined in their hubris to build this tower that rivals God to make a name for themselves.
And the tower collapses while they're still all a part of this building project and the people are destroyed with it.
And so that's my question is just, will we destroy ourselves?
With AI or this, that, or the other, with the next Babel project that globalism is trying to accomplish?
Or will the distinctions, the natural distinctions that God has set, prove to be insurmountable to the point that we'll give up the project and everyone goes their own way and separates once more, goes home and abandons the project, but at least spares their life?
I think that's.
That's the only question.
But that third option we come together, we stay together, we build a tower, it does stretch to the heavens, we make a name for ourselves, and we rival God.
I can guarantee you that that will not be.
Yeah, that's well said.
A couple examples popped in my head just as you were talking.
And I think all of them end in some kind of geographic fragmentation.
You can think of Central and Western Europe in the 19th century.
So think about the Kingdom of Prussia.
And you have all of these different people.
You have the Serbians, you have the Austrians, the Germans, and All of these distinct ethnic groups with their own cultural distinctives kind of living under one banner, one national banner, you could say.
And I think just the reality of it, and the Tower of Babel is a great biblical example of it, is that when you try to artificially bring together ethnic groups, what you're doing is fighting against nature.
It truly is like fighting gravity, like you're launching a rocket, and you have to expend so much energy to pull these people together.
And we see this in history, you just see fragmentation.
It's just like, can't hold it together anymore.
And if I had to go and make a prediction, and I'm not saying in the short term, this could be 50 years, this could be 100 years, I think what you're looking, sadly, and this isn't exactly what I want, but I think what we're up against in the West, and particularly here in the United States, is geographic fragmentation.
I think just having this massive landmass where it's one nation and all of these different ethnic distinctives living in it, even if you just think about the white population, you think about the Midwest, you think about the South and the East Coast.
They're distinct.
And so it's just as time progresses, it's going to be increasingly hard even to hold these groups together.
And so that's just my prediction.
I think that's probably the likely conclusion of this.
But again, it's something we're figuring out day to day, year to year.
Geographic Fragmentation Of America00:14:58
Yep.
All right.
Located Goose, he gave us another $10 super chat.
We appreciate that.
He said, please speak more to how we are to honor our parents.
I have a mother in law who actively schemes to drive my wife's heart.
To discontentment.
I need to make stronger boundaries, but I want to honor her.
Well, that's a good sentiment that you want to honor her, but also a good sentiment that you need some boundaries.
If she is disrupting the unity of your marriage, then that's a problem.
We will do more of that in the future.
I think that that was a hit, that a lot of people were blessed by that.
I've got a lot of good response.
But because we did a super chat on that, I believe just on Wednesday, our last live stream, and I was Fairly thorough.
I think I probably spent 20 minutes or so on it.
I think since we just hit it, I don't want to hit it again right afterwards today.
But what I would do is I would reference you back to last week's stream.
So, it would have been during the third segment with the super chats.
And one other thing that I think we could do is perhaps Nathan and John on our tech side with Right Response Ministries, maybe they could clip that out just so that it's a video that stands alone and we could post that on YouTube and X maybe over the weekend or on Monday early next week just so that it's more accessible and easier to find.
And hopefully it gets more views and more people see it.
So, maybe if we give that a A catchy thumbnail and a catchy title, and just make it its own standalone 20 minute video.
But I definitely covered, I was pretty thorough, covered a lot of bases.
And so, is there more to say on the topic?
Absolutely.
But because I was pretty thorough and we did it just on Wednesday, I don't want to dive in for another 20 minutes on it today.
But we'll hit the topic, I'm sure, again in the future, because that is an issue that is sadly not going away.
So, our next one is from Anfuan.
He gave us $5.
We appreciate that.
He said, the easiest question.
I was reading ahead here.
This one is, I think, really insightful.
So, first, let me just say, Anfon, you nailed it.
This is really well said.
I'll read it.
Here we go.
The easiest question to snuff out fake America first politicians.
Guys, because guys are going to start using it in the same way that never Trumpers all of a sudden became MAGA when they could see which direction the wind was blowing, you're going to see it.
You are going to see it with America First.
I think America First is going to replace MAGA.
And so you will see the opportunists all of a sudden who are fighting it tooth and nail every step of the way.
As soon as it gets the upper hand and it becomes clear that America First is inevitable, and America First is inevitable, then the same guys who were completely opposing the movement will turn around, run out in front of the movement, and pretend that they engineered the parade.
That's what they do, it's what they always do.
So, how will you be able to distinguish?
How will you be able to discern who is, you know, America first in name only?
Well, Amphon says the best question to ask to snuff out fake America first politicians is simple Do they think the crucifixion of our Lord was worse than the Holocaust?
I think that's well said.
Yeah.
Was it Andrew Clavin who recently went semi viral for a clip where he was basically talking about how?
Uh, the Holocaust was another crucifixion.
He said it a little tongue in cheek.
He came back and clarified later, kind of gave a little bit of a disclaimer.
But he said something to the effect of the Holocaust and Auschwitz, they were kind of a reenactment in case you missed it the first time.
And crazily enough, John Piper even said that back in the day in an article on Auschwitz that something that it was very similar to the crucifixion.
That's because it at this point has become a religious conviction.
Yeah, it's not just a history or facts, it is a religiously held idea.
That question, the second someone pauses or they have to kind of repeat it a second time slowly while they gather their thoughts.
Oh, yeah.
Not our guy.
Have you seen the viral video of the, I think it was a Jewish rabbi who said something to the effect of, they killed one Jew, you should think the Holocaust is way worse because they killed six Jews?
Well, and not just that.
He said, I know exactly what you're talking about.
It was some rabbi who said, basically, he said, not just the Holocaust, but even in a present tense, that it's ongoing and continual.
He said, He said, Christians should have no problem.
Christians should love Jews.
They should be the most pro Israel people in the world.
Because he said, after all, you worship a Jew who saved you, the Christians, by his blood.
And he said, but the reality is that Jews are dying and bleeding every day to save you.
And the point that he was making is basically it's like, you hear that, it's blasphemous, right?
He's like, he basically is equating every single Jewish person to the status of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, the Son of God, saying, you're not just saved by the blood of Jesus, the God man, but you're saved by Jews, and Jesus is just one of them.
But every day, Jews are bleeding to save you.
So, number one, absolutely blasphemous.
This rabbi is, I mean, the hottest, the hottest place in hell reserved for this man unless he repents of his sin and says Christ is Lord before he dies.
So, just absolutely wicked.
I hate to even repeat it because it's so blasphemous.
I feel like I need to tear my ropes.
I think the words he literally said were, You should be worshiping us.
Yes.
He said, You should be worshiping us.
Right.
But the final thing I wanted to add to that, so you're right, that happened crazy, but that happened.
I love it.
But the final point I wanted to make is as blasphemous as that is, let's be honest, it really wasn't that unique.
When I thought about it, when I reflected at first, it was just kind of shock, like, I can't believe he said this.
But when I thought about it in retrospect a little bit more, I realized this is actually the position.
They wouldn't use those words, those who at least.
At least profess to be Christian.
Guys who profess to be Christian typically know better than to use those words, unless you're Andrew Clavin.
But they wouldn't put it in those words.
So it wouldn't be as blasphemous on its face.
But the concept, the principle, is actually, I would say it's the majority report.
It is the general consensus of every Zionist dispensational Christian, every neocon conservative Christian.
And what I mean by that is, you tell me if I'm crazy, but isn't the general consensus on the political side?
So they wouldn't put it into, they wouldn't throw Jesus in there and say every Jew is like just as great as Jesus and blah, blah, blah.
They wouldn't use as much of the religious language, but politically speaking, they absolutely, the average Zionist GOP conservative Republican who claims to be a Christian spiritually, religiously, will constantly use this line of reasoning.
They'll say the reason why America must.
Must not abandon our greatest ally Israel is because Israel is sacrificing for us.
Israel is on the front lines in the Middle East, holding the Muslims at bay.
Like they literally, they speak as though, imagine like, you know, like it's Gondor or something like that, you know, or Helm's Deep, you know, and just being attacked by this hordes of orcs.
And they basically act as though the inner circle, the inner city, Is the West, America, you know, France, England, but the gates, the gates is Israel.
And the only reason we don't have more Islamic presence in the West and more Islamic conflict in the West, and we'll just say America because we're in America, is because it's being mitigated at the source in the Middle East by Israel.
But that is just so far from the truth.
Just a little bit of research and what you'll see.
I'm just going to say it.
I'm just going to say it in every single time situation here.
There are two types of Jews.
There are conservative Jews that are, you know, if they're here in America, you know, they would be part of the GOP, they would vote Republican, those kinds.
And same thing in Israel.
There are conservative Jews and there are liberal Jews.
But this is how the two work in tandem.
Conservative Jews start wars in the Middle East with Muslim nations that disenfranchise them.
And cause them to have to leave.
Then, liberal Jews in the West, holding political office, congressmen, senators, whatever, lawmakers in America, they then write the policies and get them enacted to then take all these Muslim displaced refugees into our Western countries.
So, conservative Jews displace Muslims in the Middle East, liberal Jews open the doors of Toledo to let the Muslims in to the West.
Israel is not mitigating the Muslim invasion.
In America, Israel is facilitating the Muslim invasion in America.
So, one, it's just politically, factually false on its face that Israel is a great ally that merits our support because they're helping us face the Muslim problem on the ground at the front gate in the Middle East before it gets to us.
No, they're actually causing it to get to us faster and faster.
In greater numbers, so it's first wrong like that.
And even if they were right, even if they were mitigating Muslim Islamic invasion in the West, to compare, therefore, Jews and their sacrifice and some of those who have died October 7th, whatever it is, to the blood of Jesus that actually eternally saves men from hell, saves them from their sin, and say, Well, you worship one Jew, why not worship all Jews?
Because Jesus isn't the only Jew who bled and died to save you.
There are Jews who are bleeding and dying to save you every day.
Well, that is not only factually wrong.
So, I already said politically why it's wrong.
Well, that's just saying, hey, since we're already politically and historically wrong about Jews and the way that they serve Western countries, well, let's go ahead and be wrong spiritually as well with just a dash of blasphemy on top.
And just, you know, like, why not just be shameless and just atrocious in our rhetoric?
So, that's one of those situations where I got to say, I absolutely hate it.
Absolutely hate it.
That will not be tolerated.
And if that makes me anti Semitic, to say that that kind of rhetoric is blasphemous, disgusting, and also politically and historically false on its face, if that makes me anti Semitic, then I'm an anti Semite.
So be it.
Okay, next one.
Yep.
JD Peabody sent $10.
We greatly appreciate that and say happy Friday to Right Response Ministries and everyone in the chat.
Christ is king, America first.
Amen.
Amen to that.
Okay.
Next one, wild card sent $2 and says, Thank you for your ministry.
And then there's a chat attached here that says, I'm in the Bible Belt, but all the churches in my area seem to be beholden to the modern world.
For instance, every church closed down for COVID.
My question with that would be How long?
How long?
To close down for COVID at all, I think, was a failure.
And I've said this publicly several times, which I think is one of the reasons why people.
Are willing to follow this ministry, not because I'm right about everything all the time, but because sadly, the distinction between pastors and politicians, the line between pastors and politicians is virtually doesn't even exist these days, right?
If that was a Venn diagram, you got politicians on one side and then you got pastors on the other, that's just a circle.
And what I mean by that is both pastors, modern pastors, and modern politicians, one thing.
Common denominator that both of them do relentlessly is they never, ever, ever admit when they're wrong.
They will actually change.
They'll change with public sentiment.
They'll change not with the science, but with the political science.
So as the winds change, they will change.
But when they change, they'll just like face like Flint.
They'll never admit it.
And they'll just do it and do it and do it and never admit the change until you and I just forget.
You know, and I hate that.
I hate treating people as though they're so stupid that they can't recognize hey, you know, you might have noticed that what I'm saying today is the exact opposite of what I said, you know, three years ago or five years ago or whatever.
And I just find that disgusting.
And so my point is with those churches, I would encourage you one, how long did they close?
I think to close it all was a mistake.
But one of the reasons people follow me is because I've been willing to admit my mistakes.
And here it is one of my mistakes.
Granted, we were in California at the time, pastoring a church there.
There were extra restrictions.
It was one of the most difficult states to be in during the COVID lockdowns.
But at the end of the day, I have to admit, that's still no excuse.
We shut down our church for four weeks.
So, one, I would ask, how long did they shut down their church?
11 months?
Year and a half?
Or four weeks.
There is a difference.
Both are wrong, but not equally wrong.
Reopening Churches With Light00:15:27
Second, and this one's even bigger bigger than how long did you shut down during COVID?
A bigger one is when you reopened, was there ever any public acknowledgement from the pastor that he did the wrong thing, that he messed up?
Because my first sermon, when we reopened after closing for only four weeks in California and we got kicked out of our building, so but we, but here's the deal we could have met in the field, we could have made it happen.
So, it's not just we couldn't make it happen.
I'd love to say that.
I'd love to say that.
I'd love to say I did no wrong.
But here's the deal more than having people respect me, you know what I really want?
Life goal, really want?
To not go to hell.
That's what I really want.
Like Joel Webbins, greatest life goal, not going to hell.
Which means at the end of the day, if I lose respect from people, what I can't afford to lose is God's good graces.
What I can't afford to lose is a clear conscience before the Lord.
And so I have to just call a spade a spade and I have to admit my mistakes if I actually made them.
The reality is that we didn't have a church building.
We were renting from a public school.
We got kicked out of our space.
There's all these things.
But if I had resolve and I had pure conviction and I made the right decision from the start, then we would have found a way to do church if it was in somebody's home, if it was in somebody's backyard, if it was in a field.
But we still closed down for four weeks because I was wrong.
But here's the deal.
By God's grace, and only by God's grace, is not to boast in me.
When we did reopen my first sermon to the church, the first half of it was me apologizing for making the wrong decision and using the scripture, using the scripture and preaching a sermon from the scripture to explain why the decision to close our church for four weeks was a sinful decision, why it was the wrong decision.
And so that would be my question.
As you're looking at churches, I mean, your overarching point is well taken, and you're right.
The church in general is just modern, limp wristed, effeminate, and compromised.
Absolutely.
But if you're using as your sole metric for making that assessment, how churches, local churches in your area, responded specifically to COVID and just a pass fail system of did they close or did they not?
And well, they all closed.
So therefore, all of them are faithless.
I would add a little nuance to that, and I would say they all closed.
So, therefore, yes, they all sinned.
They all missed it.
They all messed up.
But then the question is for the Christian is not if he's sinless, if he never messes up, but does he repent?
And the same context where the failure occurred is the same context where the repentance must occur.
So, to shut down the church is a public failure, it's not a private failure behind closed doors.
You publicly failed.
And so, therefore, When you write the ship, when you fix the mistake, your repentance needs to be public.
So, when those churches reopened, that would be the repentance in action, in deed.
We closed, that was the wrong action.
We're opening, that's the right action.
But true repentance is both in the same context where the sin occurred.
So, if it's a public sin, like closing the church, it needs to be a public repentance.
And if it's true repentance, it also must be repentance in deed and in word.
Deed and in word.
So, not just shifting on a dime, pivoting on a dime in terms of the action.
The action we close the church.
Now, the action is we open the church, but also saying it.
Say it.
Say it.
Don't just change your actions when you realize that public sentiment is shifting and the opinion, the consensus is changing, but also name it and say, hey guys, you might notice that four weeks ago, four months ago, whatever it was, We sent out an email and said, We're not having church for this reason and that reason and that reason.
And today we are having church.
And that's the complete opposite decision.
And I'm not going to sit here and treat you all as though you're stupid, that you can't comprehend that we did one thing and we're now doing the exact opposite.
I'm going to give you a little more respect than that.
You might notice we're doing the complete opposite.
So here's why.
Here's an easy way to reconcile these two directly contradicting decisions.
The way to reconcile it is this.
One decision was wrong.
I was wrong.
This decision is right.
Please forgive me.
That's all it takes.
That's all it takes.
Walk in the light as he is in the light.
We will have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ, his son, will cleanse us from all sin.
That's 1 John 1, verse 7.
Notice to walk in the light is not to walk in sinless perfection.
No one achieves sinless perfection in this life.
Only Jesus was truly sinless.
To walk in the light is to walk exposed, to walk honestly, to walk truthfully.
So, it's not walking without any faults.
It's walking in such a way that we still sin, but we're honest with our faults.
But notice the result.
If, right, there's a condition.
If we walk in the light as he is in the light, then what's the result?
Then we have fellowship with one another.
One of the major hindrances of unity and relationship and fellowship is the refusal to walk in the light, which is a refusal to repent, a refusal to apologize, a refusal to To be honest about our faults.
So I would be looking, not, I would not make my standard, it must be a church that never closed down at all.
I would make my standard, well, is it a church that closed down for a year or for a couple months?
There is a difference there.
And then the biggest question is, and when they reopened, what did they say?
Did they ever own it?
Did they ever admit that they messed up?
Hey, that guy admitted it?
I would follow you all the way to Mordor.
That's a guy that I will follow.
A flawed man who is a humble and honest man.
So look for that.
Now, if you can't even find that in your area, then see point A, all the way back to the beginning of this episode.
Then you either got to plant a church, but only if you're biblically qualified to do so.
And if you're not and don't feel called to do that, then you have to relocate your family to find a church somewhere else.
Because the third option of being churchless is not an option.
You are not permitted by God.
To be a Lone Ranger Christian, you must participate in the body of Christ and you have to make it happen one way or another.
All right, let's read the next one.
All right, we have 20 super chats still left.
Oh my goodness.
Okay, we'll go fast.
HHS 9045.
What is your advice to pastors and members of the CBA, formerly ARBCA, Texas Area Reformed Baptist Churches, TABCA, TARB?
Texas Area Reformed Baptist Churches, or RBS who strictly subscribe to the 1689 London Baptist Confession?
Of faith.
I'm not really sure what the question is.
If you're in the denomination, you're a pastor in that denomination, there's nothing wrong with that.
I mean, we're convictionally Baptists, subscribe to the 1689.
I think keeping it on topic.
So, culturally, those organizations, they probably are not where right responses.
You're sitting here listening.
I'm assuming you probably align more with us than like a Tom Hicks would, for example.
So, as much as possible, I think stay on topic.
Church, preaching, administering the sacraments, being Reformed Baptists, doing Reformed Baptist things.
And then outside of that, any political or business aspirations that you have.
Yeah.
Yep.
Okay.
Next one, Antonio.
Chase Cormick sent $10 and says, How important are the congregants of the church you attend as far as influence and possible suitors for young adult children?
So, this is something I think we've talked about doing a further deep dive on in terms of arranged marriages, what that has looked like historically, and what that would look like today.
Obviously, it's not a common thing today, but it's certainly something that we talk about.
The church you attend, the church you want to move to, that being a consideration.
Who are my children going to marry?
Are children being raised up in this church that I can respect and I see their development and I see how they're parented?
And all of these things are things that you should consider in terms of the church that you attend and the kinds of people that make up the church.
And so, but I think we'd like to do a deeper dive on this and what specific applications there would be for so many people who are asking this very question.
Yep, absolutely.
But the short answer is it's extremely important.
Yeah.
But what I'll say is that it's kind of like a chicken or the egg situation.
Like one leads to the other.
And what I mean by that is, if the church and its leadership are courageous and solid, then they will attract a congregation.
They will attract families that are like minded.
So if you find a church, because this is what I hear from people all the time it's like, well, my pastors are kind of cowardly and compromise and this, that, and the other, but there's some great people in the church.
Guys, I got to be honest.
There's not.
And this is what I mean by that.
I know those guys.
I know those guys personally.
And I don't mean the pastors, I mean the congregants who are great congregants in the church, despite the fact that their pastor's a lip.
Your great, courageous men, churchmen, not pastors, but the congregants themselves, do not tolerate, maybe for a season, but they do not sit there year after year after year leading their wives and children.
To a limp wristed church with an effeminate, libtard pastor.
They don't do it.
And so, what I found is that, well, you know, the pastors aren't great, but the congregants really are.
What I found is that those great, courageous congregants, even the congregants themselves, when they're pressed and pressed and pressed, turns out that they haven't actually just been tolerating that pastor.
They've been comfortable in that church because they actually are like that pastor.
They themselves have far more in common with that liberal pastor than maybe they're willing to admit.
They might seem a little spicy or courageous from time to time on X and the social media platforms, but push comes to shove.
The reason why they've been willing, they've been content to be a part of a church with a liberal leadership for, again, not just talking about a few months, but for years in those cases is because they themselves are given over to more liberalism than they may even be aware of.
So, all that said, the congregants of a church, the caliber of the congregants, not just the leaders, it matters immensely.
However, If you find a church with the right leaders, the congregants will follow.
Next.
Fraternity of Benjamin sent $5.
Thank you, I'm assuming, Benjamin.
For those of us with ties and roots in a particular region of the U.S., how would you recommend finding the closest churches that will longhouse us?
I mean, that's the age old question.
Are there base churches near me?
We get that one a lot.
I think one way is to look for men that are standing out and speaking up on social media.
So you see a pastor that preaches a good sermon or went to his courthouse, look up where he pastors.
And eventually, I mean, there's people, Joel, that like they've watched you for six months and all of a sudden they're like, holy cow, I live 20 minutes away from you.
So don't let a pastor go by, someone who's speaking, someone who in their bio, for example, says that they're a PCA minister.
Don't look at someone that's being brave, standing out, speaking out, and say, and just go, ah, maybe he ministers somewhere.
Keep saying, does he live near me?
Does he preach near me?
Is he an hour away?
Could I make the drive?
That would be the best bet, I think.
Yep.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You're right.
On social media, the people that you are following that are ministers, Look into it.
You might be surprised.
Oh my goodness, I've been following this guy, benefiting from his ex account or whatever, his podcast, and I just never took the time to see where he lives.
But it turns out he pastors a church 30 minutes away.
Many such cases.
All right, next one, Antonio.
Yep.
Located Goose sent another $5 and says, How should I view the salvation of Catholic and EO family members based on the doctrine they confess?
How much grace is there in error salvifically?
It's a great question.
We've answered this before.
Short answer for the sake of time, because we've got a lot of super chats today, is there's a difference between Catholicism and Catholicism.
There's a difference between the Catholics themselves and the doctrine of Rome, Catholicism.
And so keep that in mind.
And I'm not just picking on the Catholics, it's the same for Protestants.
But the actual people, the actual Protestants versus Protestantism, you know, or the actual Catholics versus Catholicism, very often it is very common that there is quite a difference between the two.
There are many Catholics that I have had conversations with over the years that aren't even aware of all the doctrines of Rome.
You ask them, hey, do you believe that you're a Christian?
Do you believe you're saved?
Yes.
And you ask them, why?
And as they begin to answer that question, why, it's usually a fairly simple answer.
Well, I'm saved because Jesus Christ, the Son of God, died for my sin.
And I have faith in him.
You know what I mean?
So I think there's a way that we can main.
My point is, and I think that's a charitable way of kind of walking the tightrope on this very controversial issue, is doing your best to bifurcate between the doctrines themselves and the people, Catholicism and Catholics.
I've said it before, I say it kind of tongue in cheek, but I do actually believe this is the case.
I believe that there are many Catholics.
Many Catholics who are genuinely saved going to heaven because I believe that there are many bad Catholics.
That's my opinion.
The average Catholic that I talk to is not beholden to, they're not holding to the Council of Trent.
They're not familiar with every single tenant of Mariology.
Many Catholics Are Genuinely Saved00:16:10
They're Catholic despite those things.
They're Catholic.
Like their main motive for even being Catholic is they were born into the Catholic Church, their family has always been Catholic.
There's familial reasons, historic reasons, cultural reasons, and then you know, beyond that, it's because the Catholic Church feels old, it feels tried, it feels true.
Um, and they're looking for something they've chosen Catholicism not over historic Protestantism with an objective analysis.
They've chosen Catholicism because when they think of a Protestant church, they just think of the average shoebox mega church.
You know, it's meeting in a strip mall with, you know, laser lights and fog machines, you know.
And so that's what they're comparing it to.
And that's why they've made the decision that they have.
And I think that all that needs to be considered.
Okay, next.
Sean sent $5 and says, big fan of the show.
I'm a 27 year old male in Cleveland, Ohio.
Grok told me that it's likely the end times will happen in my lifetime.
Thoughts?
Grok said it.
It's, you gotta take that to the bank.
Run for the hills.
Yeah.
That's actually funny.
I think, in general, I think AI tells you what you want to hear.
And it's pulling from the sentiment of the time.
So, Christian evangelical sentiment.
Right.
That seems like it.
Right.
Exactly.
Just keep in mind that artificial general intelligence, like we have narrow AI.
That's what we have.
We're talking about a very, very, very fast and thorough search engine, but it is not sentient, it is not thinking.
So, Grok is not thinking and telling you, you know, it's personal, you know, conclusions.
Grok is just searching the internet.
Like, really, all I've heard people say it this way, and I think it's well said.
I think you might have said this, Antonio, but all AI is doing is plagiarizing at a high level, quickly, thoroughly plagiarizing.
And so, if Grok told you that, really, the way you should interpret it is this is the general consensus currently among people that I follow in the broader social sphere.
So, if you follow a bunch of evangelicals and then Grok gives you that answer, your conclusion should be evangelicals think that Jesus is coming back in my lifetime.
Yeah.
I think this is a quick 10 second aside on AI, but if you're interested, I think Apple just published a paper on AI.
And what they found is their finding was that AI cannot reason and it's nowhere close to being able to reason.
And what they did was they created new problems.
So, they created problems that wouldn't be on the internet, that AI wouldn't have seen before and been able to interpret and use to answer.
And it did terrible.
So, if you give AI an LSAT, it's going to have seen the question or a question like it before, and it's going to do pretty well.
It's all pattern recognition and probabilistic sort of answers.
But it isn't a reasoning, like you said, sentient being that we should place any reasonable amount of trust in.
Yep, well said.
All right, Fraternity of Benjamins.
He gave us another $5.
He said, I know Georgetown and I know Ogden.
Are there any other churches or networks or denominations that you would recommend for?
Finding like minded brothers across the nation.
Ogden and Georgetown would be two of our favorites.
We are Georgetown, so that's a little bit biased.
Georgetown, Texas, if you're looking for a church, that's where we're at, north of Austin.
I think those are two of the best.
Are there any other major hubs that have a strong presence and a lot of agreement?
I mean, there are lots of guys.
That we have lots of theological agreement.
But I think, in line with today's episode, and I think this is probably what people are getting at, is the intangibles.
It's like, okay, well, these guys agree on being historic Protestants, confessional, covenantal, this, that, and the other.
They're not dispensational, at least not on paper.
They're not this, they're not that.
Yeah, there's a lot of guys like that.
But when push comes to shove in terms of the intangibles, it's like, this guy might on paper be patriarchal.
But then, when it comes to every Twitter post and every blog post and every church discipline situation or counseling session, it's always some exception clause where it's like, well, but technically, Deborah, technically, Abigail, technically.
So it's like, okay, you're patriarchal on paper, but you're complementarian or just egalitarian in practice.
And so, yeah, there are a lot of guys.
If we were just listing off, and I don't want to do it because I think it's a misrepresentation, I think it's unhelpful.
And some of you might hear me give a list and go to a place and then be sorely disappointed.
So I'm not going to give you a full list of people who just agree with us on, you know, nine out of 10 or 99 out of 100 issues on paper.
I think what the question is getting at is who are the people who are kindred spirits?
They're like minded in heart and practice.
Ogden would be one of them.
I feel like maybe, I don't know, like.
There's lots of great names.
I just don't know where in the country you are.
Tennessee.
Tennessee, Ridge Runner Project.
Ridge Runner Project.
That would be an example.
I think part of the problem is it's tough.
Yeah, I can't just say join a church here, join this network.
We can name the individuals, but they could be 500 miles away, right?
Yeah, but it's not that many.
Like, I think there are a lot of guys, it's growing day by day, but in terms of like churches and pastors, um, that's still few and far between.
I think a lot of the momentum that we're getting is grassroots, it's congregants.
All right, next one.
This is a super sticker, so a $10 super chat.
Thank you from Hesha.
And it's describing the sticker.
It says, Lemon character doing a victory dance with a monocas in his hand.
Maracas.
Maracas.
Seems like I need glasses in my old age.
Seems like it'd be a cool sticker.
I know.
Appreciate that.
Thank you for the super chat.
All right.
HHS 9045 says, Dale Partridge recently tweeted that Christians must grasp that they can't fulfill the Great Commission without political colonization thoughts.
I think that's true.
I think that's true.
I don't.
The Great Commission is to make disciples of all nations.
It's not merely to make individual persons disciples out of nations, but the subject that's being made a disciple is the nations themselves.
And so it's every component, every element of the nation.
It's the culture, it's the political system.
I think it's all the way down.
So we are actually, I believe, We are called in the Great Commission to make Christian nations, not just Christian individual people out of nations, but Christian nations.
And a Christian nation, like the Great Commission, the gospel has a totalizing effect.
It's not content to just save private hearts.
Christianity is not a private faith, it's a personal faith, but with a public expression.
And when you look at Christianity in its most powerful moments historically over the last 2,000 years, It was always, there was always a, it spilled into everything.
It spilled into culture, it spilled into academia, it spilled into politics from Constantine to King Alfred, you know, all the way down the line.
So I think that's absolutely true.
If we seek to fulfill the Great Commission, it's one thing if we're seeking to fulfill the Great Commission believing that the Christianizing of the political system of a given nation will follow.
That's one thing.
But that's not what I'm seeing today.
I am seeing from a lot of pastors saying that the intent, the actual goal should be to avoid the Christianization of a nation politically and to actually, like, our goal should be to just win private persons for Christ and not nations.
I think it's one thing to say this nation is currently a communist nation, but a few people in the province of God will be called to be missionaries.
Even despite this nation being publicly and politically hostile towards Christ, and they're going to go in and save souls and preach Christ, that's great.
But when you say Christian nationalism is the greatest danger to America, and our goal is to have that everyone in America would be a Christian, but that the nation politically and culturally would not be Christian not that it would follow later, but that we don't want that to ever happen I think that's just ridiculous.
I think that's Not just ridiculous.
I think that's sinister.
I think there's malice, real malice behind that.
I think these individuals who are using that rhetoric know exactly what they're doing, they know what they're saying.
And yeah, they're choosing to side against Christ.
So I think Dale Partridge is right that the political colonization is, I think that that's rooted in the text of Matthew 28, where the Great Commission is found.
And I think that that's been proven, not only can be proven exegetically from the scripture, but also historically when you look at Christian nations of the past.
All right.
All right.
Bo Carrington, one.
100 wow, thanks, Bo.
Super chat, very kind, Bo.
He said this the super chat, what he said is uh, even kinder, even nicer.
Uh, great discussion as usual, gentlemen.
Thank you.
Got paid today, so I need to send some capital out as a small tie.
Thank you all, and have a great week, great weekend.
God bless you all.
You, Bo, have a great weekend as well.
Yeah, thank you.
We appreciate that.
Very kind, and then that's followed up by uh, Chase Cormick gave a $50 super chat, also very generous.
Thank you, Chase.
He said, to clarify my earlier question, I've seen the effect attending a church where The theology is not ideal but permissible.
It has had a negative effect on my siblings to the point of affecting who they marry and their beliefs.
How do I deal with that aspect?
Yeah, that's real.
What I've realized is that most churches, when people say, Well, you're being offensive, or that was harsh, that one especially, right?
That was harsh.
I've gotten to the point now where I typically just respond by saying, No, I think you mean that was clear.
Joel, that's harsh.
You mean clear.
Most individuals avoid, most pastors avoid the appearance of harshness by pursuing ambiguity.
The way that they avoid being labeled as harsh is by avoiding clarity.
The best way to not offend people is to not say anything.
It's like, well, pastors are saying things all the time.
Are they?
Pastors are talking all the time, but are they actually saying anything?
Is there a point?
Is there a view?
Is there a message?
Or is it just word salad?
You know, just.
It's like at the end of it all, at the end of a sermon, at the end of a blog post, at the end of a tweet, it's like he didn't really say anything.
So, my point is that I think what you're describing is a common occurrence where within one local gathering, you could have a wide spectrum.
Of convictions among the congregants because the pulpit is ambiguous, because the preaching is vague.
And when it's vague, what it allows for is just like a politician, right?
You want a big tent.
Well, we want a big tent when it comes to trying to get political wins and cultural wins.
And that's what we've been talking about in this whole episode.
But in a local church on the Lord's Day, we actually don't want a big tent.
In the local church setting, we want to be.
Right up front, abundantly clear about specifics, not general vagaries, you know, but specifics of our convictions, what we believe, what the Bible says.
And what that does is it just sets up a fence post, it sets up a border to ensure that the people who belong to that church are there because there's a great sense of unity.
People always think that unity is achieved by having less.
Divisions, less borders, less fences.
No, that's a unity of charity, but there's also a unity of conviction.
Ephesians chapter 4 speaks of this type of unity.
It's the unity of conviction, it's the unity of the knowledge of the faith.
It's a unity of common conviction.
So there is a unity of charity despite distinctions in conviction.
That's what we were talking about when we want to be unified culturally and politically Monday through Saturday.
But in the church, we want to have as much as we can a unity of Conviction.
And that doesn't mean we're just overlooking disagreements.
It means we're preaching and messaging so specifically and so clearly that everyone who's willing to tolerate that church and the message of that church, you can assume that they're extremely aligned.
And so the more ambiguous the pastor, the broader the scope of the congregants, where you have libs over here and maybe some conservatives over there.
And so, the solution for all that is you're right, and this is what you're saying, Chase.
But the solution for all that is to find a clearer church, a clearer church.
And if you don't have that, then the problem, unfortunately, will persist.
All right, Julian Stevenson, can you read that?
Yep.
He sent $5 and says, We're expecting our first child in five weeks.
Praise God for that.
He says, My father sadly did not lead my family well.
Any advice on how I can help my new family love the standard?
Well said.
Keep the standard, love the standard.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, family worship every night in the home.
And you set the standard of doing family worship in the home every night, knowing that you won't do it every night.
But if you set the standard to do it three times a week, you'll do it once or twice.
If it's every night, you'll end up doing it four or five times.
So that's one thing.
And I, you know, just speaking from personal experience, start early.
Don't, my wife and I realized this when our first was about a year old.
And it's like, They can't even talk.
They don't really understand what we're saying.
But we just realized that even from infancy, we wanted our children to be familiar with worship in the home.
Making Your World Smaller For Her00:11:36
So they don't understand the Bible as I'm reading it.
They don't understand the theology behind the hymns and psalms as we're singing them.
They're not standing in agreement with the prayers because they can't even comprehend the words that I'm praying.
But I wanted all of our children.
From before they even reached the level of comprehension, at you know, as a baby, to be familiar with just the rhythm and the presence of daily worship in the home.
And so that would be very practical, but that would be one of my pieces of advice.
What do you guys think?
I think the other one is find a good church, be in a good church, attend church consistently.
I mean, very practical things.
I think another one is to the extent that you can, it's an option for you, it's available, is surround yourself with.
You know, families, young families, children around the same age maybe they're in your church, maybe they're childhood friends who have the same convictions as you.
I think it goes a long way in terms of just surrounding your children from a very early age with a cultural milieu, a very homogenous kind of environment.
And yeah, so I would say insulate your children in that way in your relationships, in your church.
I think those go a really long way.
Yep.
All right, Andrew Cox, $20.
Thank you, Andrew.
We appreciate it.
He said, GA, good afternoon, brothers.
What would you say to the charge that Stephen Wolfe is historically dishonest and misrepresents the sources that he cites?
This is not my view whatsoever, but one that I've heard passed around in my 1689 Federalist circles.
Well, there's your problem.
1689 Federalist circles.
Yeah, I mean, like, I know those circles.
Talking about the Renahans, talking about Tom Hicks, talking about, you know, guys who.
They don't want Stephen Wolfe to be right.
They don't want him, like, it's a foregone conclusion.
They don't want him to be right because if he's right about the political theory, the political theology of the reformers, then they're wrong.
And I'll be honest, it's kind of like what I was saying earlier to just throw myself into it also, into the equation.
If Stephen Wolfe is right, and I believe he is, About the political theory and theology of the reformers, then some of the insufferable Baptists are especially wrong, but all Baptists are at least partially wrong.
All of them.
The best, I'll just, you know, I'll say it like the best Baptist, bar none, better than Spurgeon, the best Baptist, bar none, in terms of view of the political, would have been John Gill.
John Gill was the closest that a Baptist can get, and God bless him.
He's like, the fact that John Gill was a Baptist is probably the only way I can sleep at night, still being a Baptist without feeling just so much crushing shame that I cry into the pillow.
John Gill, he held at both tables of the law.
So that being one through four with the Ten Commandments, as well as five through ten, our commandments as it pertains to God, the Sabbath, not taking the name of the Lord in vain, and et cetera.
That these are actually binding and should be legislated and upheld by the civil magistrate.
So, not just the civil magistrate enforcing that we don't steal from our neighbor or murder our neighbor, those kinds of things, but that the civil magistrate actually has a God given duty, invested interest, and seeing to it that the nation, that the country does not commit blasphemy, for instance.
So, that blasphemy would not only be categorized as a sin, but it would also be considered a crime.
There would be a legal infraction for public.
Blasphemy.
John Gill held to that.
So, my point is the problem that you're probably facing is predominantly stemming from 1689 Federalist circles.
You're surrounding yourself by guys who have a vested interest.
You have to see the bias.
They have a vested interest in Stephen Wolfe being wrong.
Because if he's right, then these guys are, it's shameful.
It's embarrassing for these guys.
But The reason I bring up John Gill is just to say that John Gill, even as a Baptist, so Stephen Wolfe is definitely right in terms of Calvin and Luther and these guys.
But even in the case of John Gill, who was a Baptist, John Gill would, I guarantee you, when it comes to the political, he would have sided with Stephen Wolfe way more than Tom Hicks.
I promise you that.
Okay.
Wise.
Final solution.
Wes, will you take that one?
Wise Final Solution sent $5.
Frequent super chatter.
Thanks for the $5.
They said this the Lord will reward right response ministries when you publicly communicate loyalty to the chief law enforcement officer in the country, the chief civil magistrate over Nick.
And so they're referencing, I believe it would be Donald Trump, the chief civil magistrate, the president over Nick Fuentes.
This is a flavor of a comment that the same person has sent before.
So we appreciate the donation.
Our question is still, again, the same as I think it was maybe two weeks ago when you sent it.
We would love to be loyal to Donald Trump, to have his back and to back him up when he shows loyalty.
To the people that put him into office.
That's right.
Trump thinks higher, speaks higher of Miriam Adelson, Jews who donated to his campaign to get certain arrangements and embassy locations in Jerusalem.
They donated to get that.
And he speaks higher of those people than he does white evangelicals who voted and put him into office three times.
Or at the very least elected him three times, put him into office twice.
So, by all means, if he was our champion and our chief executive, there would be a certain sense of loyalty above and beyond the honor we already give him.
We are honorable to him.
We don't, we don't, we do our best.
We don't circulate falsehoods about him.
There's lots of emails that are not looking good right now.
That's not today's episode.
They're not founded.
We're trying to believe the best about him, but practically speaking, honoring him does not require, here's all his faults.
And we have to pretend like those don't exist and exhibit undying loyalty.
That's right.
Because, like, no, he hasn't been loyal to us.
He hasn't represented us.
He hasn't protected us.
That's right.
He won't have our vote again.
His platform won't have our support.
Well said.
HH. S9045.
He gave us another super chat, $10.
He said, Joel, what's your strategy for increasing husband wife theological alignment on toughest applied issues like race and views towards Israel or Jewry?
What percent alignment is needed for a strong counter cultural household?
That's a great question.
Really great question.
The first thing I would say, and this is a white pill, this should be encouraging, is not 100%.
Not 100%.
Your wife is different than you.
I've heard it said before by Michael Foster, even said this, and it's good to be a man.
He said, Your wife is not your best friend.
Your wife is your wife.
That's better than a best friend.
You need a wife.
She is bone of your bone, right?
Flesh of your flesh, right?
So there's obviously a lot.
She's a suitable helpmate of your kind.
So there's a lot of similarities, but there are massive distinctions.
She's not one of the bros.
She's not one of the guys.
She is built different all the way down to the marrow in her bone.
And that's a beautiful thing when it's embraced for what it is.
So she doesn't have to be perfectly aligned with all your political takes and all your cultural takes.
I always think of Pepe the frog meme, where he's all dressed up, all dapper, with his tuxedo.
He said, A lucky little lady.
Time to share my extremist political views with a lucky young lady.
Yeah, time to share.
And the implication is she's going to be horrified, but that's okay.
So obviously, you don't want to have a 50 year long marriage where your wife is.
Horrified by your politics for all 50 years.
But she doesn't have to be 100% aligned, but she does need to be generally aligned.
So, one way to get that alignment, here's one way don't talk to your wife the way that you would talk to the GC, right?
Don't talk to her the way that you would talk to the boys.
Don't lie to her.
Don't pull the wool over her eyes.
Be honest about your positions, your convictions, and what you think, but use language that would be more conducive to the feminine domestic spirit.
You're talking to a woman.
It's your woman, it's your wife, but she's still a woman at the end of the day.
So talk to her differently.
And then the last thing that I would say is wives are women and women are NPCs.
And I'm not trying to be offensive with that.
NPC is non player character, like in a video game, if you're not familiar with the reference.
There's an element of that.
But even more than that, I've heard people define it as it pertains to women as not just non player character, but more specifically, naturally pursuing consensus.
Women, the feminine ethos is wanting to go along and get along, wanting to agree.
With the majority.
And so women typically will be more inclined, much more inclined than a man to take whatever position they think the majority of people hold.
Now, here's the deal in brass tacks, in the objective, definitive sense, it doesn't have to be the majority of the population, right?
If we have 330 million people in America, it doesn't have to be 50% plus one.
But their world, make, and this is one of the things you got to do, make their world smaller.
Make their world smaller.
The world of a woman is meant to be smaller.
She is a lady of the hearth.
Her world is her home.
Her world is you, right?
You're trying to change the world.
She is in your world.
She is orbiting.
She's the moon and you're the earth.
She is orbiting.
You are her world.
You and the children, your home, your local church, her few women friends.
That's her world.
So here's my point that's actually really encouraging.
You don't actually have to change 50% of a 330 million population nation plus one.
In order for your wife to finally get on board with your politics, all you have to do is make sure that not the world, but her world is smaller and that that smaller world is aligned with you.
You go to the right church that holds the right views, where she develops friendships with the right women, and you speak to her in a loving, gentle way as her husband living with your wife in an understandable manner.
And even if you hold the minority view, for all intents and purposes, For her everyday life and her interactions, the friendships and relationships she has, it's the majority of you there.
And she will naturally pursue consensus as an NPC.
God bless her.
And turns out your wife will be a far right extremist just like you.
Match made in heaven.
One Spirit And One Baptism00:06:26
Praise God.
We have got to get these done.
Antonia, yes, Swinters, 07 cent, $2, and says, Is the R word making a comeback?
It is definitely making a comeback.
I think so.
If we're talking about retarded, then yes, it is making a comeback.
And retarded is used in the most loving terms.
In an endearing way possible.
You don't, Michael Scott, I think he said it best.
He said, You don't call someone retarded because they're actually retarded.
You call them retarded when they're doing something retarded, right?
Same thing with another word, the F word, not F U C, you know.
But I was like, You don't say that when, you know, if they're actually, you say it if they're doing something.
So, yes, I think in an endearing, you know, tongue in cheek, humorous way, it is certainly making a comeback.
All right.
Next, Pavel.
$10.
Thank you, Pavel.
While non salvific traditions orient one's life towards God, that is their purpose.
As there are many languages but one meaning, so there are many traditions but one spirit.
Very kind super chat.
A picture of a dove, and I do not understand that comment.
I think I understand it, and I think I got to admit, I don't like it.
And I think Pavel's probably a great guy or girl.
Or I don't know.
Pavel is a strange name.
Now we got to be careful there.
Like, I think to one extent, yes.
Like, the, you know, the holy Catholic Church, lowercase c, Catholic, the invisible church, right?
That stretches back throughout the ages, every person who truly belongs to Christ.
And it's one baptism, one spirit, one, you know, so we have that in Galatians, I believe it's chapter three, one Lord.
And so, in that sense, yes.
But if it's in the sense to say that the distinctions don't matter at all, Or that they matter very little, then that can be a problem.
So, without knowing the person, I don't know their intent in the comment, but I do see $10.
And so, I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt that this person's on or something.
Come back on Monday and be with another $10.
It's not like cultural traditions.
Yeah.
And in that case, it feels.
And I would say, so then that's true as far as it goes.
Yeah.
It's not limitlessly true, but it is true to an extent that within Orthodox churches, yes, one spirit, one Lord, one baptism.
But if we're going to apply that to Mormons, then no, no, sir.
Ron Don Valenti, he gave us $20.
We appreciate that.
He said, What are your general thoughts about receiving veterans' disability?
Many vets receive it in some form, regardless of combat history.
Is there a line between being shrewd and providing and acquiring dishonest gain?
That's a great question.
Wes would be the guy to answer it, but we have no time today.
I'm just going to go on record and say we've got to, people who have put their lives at risk for our country.
Are just treated like scum.
Like, I just think we take veterans for granted and we got to do right by our veterans.
Should they be on lifelong disability when they're perfectly able bodied and healthy?
Probably not.
If you're an individual who is a veteran and you like, should you be shrewd in a system where you're already being robbed through your taxes and try to get some of that back?
And can you make a justifiable argument?
I think you probably can.
This is something where the system itself needs to change.
Let's keep going, Nick Bonner.
Nick Bonner gave us a $27.99 super chat.
We appreciate that.
He said, I'm Canadian and somehow still more American first than these frauds.
So true, King.
Well said.
Here is a $70 super chat from Nick488.
Very generous.
We appreciate that.
He said, Hey, guys, I'd like your thoughts on the following European supremacy can only be attributed to God's providence.
I agree with that.
His hand graced the Europeans before Christ ever walked the Earth, I think that's debatable, but I know that view.
Uh, before they would eventually become the people to wield his son's sword, great question.
I think that that's something that's been looming.
This sentiment from a few of our listeners just merits a whole episode.
So let's just put a pin in that one.
We'll get to it eventually.
But talking about Europeans and who were the Europeans 2,000 years ago and what was God providentially doing?
Talk about Plato, you know, did Plate was so we, I think that that's uh.
It's fascinating.
It's worth a conversation.
Next one Reformed Farmer.
He gave us $5.
We appreciate that, Reformed Farmer.
He said, My wife just gave birth to our second child, who is a boy.
Pray that he will be a godly man, that God would give us wisdom to parent him.
And thank you for your ministry.
Thank you so much, Reformed Farmer.
We appreciate that.
Lynn P., last one.
Here we go $5 super chat.
Thank you, Lynn.
Why are so many men converting to EO?
What would you say to someone in your church?
Tempted to leave and convert to Eastern Orthodoxy?
That's a great question.
You probably tuned in late because this live stream has been going on for about two or three days at this point.
We did address it earlier.
It's certainly not your fault.
I think it's the Mr. Miyagi complex.
I think that's a big portion of it.
And so I already kind of addressed that.
I would encourage you just rewind the tape, go back a little bit in the episode, probably around the halfway point.
You'll find my answer.
And I think it directly applies to your question.
That's all we got for today.
As always, thank you so much for your generosity.
Supporting this ministry.
We appreciate it very much.
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That's it for the week, and we will see you, Lord willing, next week on Monday at Three PM Central Time.