Joel Webbin defends his restrictive voting criteria, requiring third-generation white Christian males to vote, and supports policies like banning usury and "false worship" to encourage Jewish self-deportation. He argues universal suffrage is a liberal invention rather than a natural right, urging Christians to reject modern egalitarianism and the post-war consensus that silences dissent. While validating his controversial views as biblically consistent, he critiques online legalism for labeling him a Nazi and analyzes JD Vance's presidency through the lens of Appalachian roots versus techno-right influences, warning against foreign ties while calling for financial support to sustain his ministry against threats. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
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Why We Leave Our Heritage00:14:17
Leave us a five star review on your favorite podcast platform.
I get it.
It's annoying.
Everybody asks, but I'm going to tell you why.
When you give us a positive review, what that does is it triggers the algorithm so that our podcast shows up on more people's news feeds.
You and I both know that this ministry is willing to talk about things that most ministries aren't.
We need this content for the glory of God to reach more people's ears.
So, a clip from one of my past sermons has been going viral over the last 24 to 48 hours.
Here's the culprit who set the whole thing off.
His name is Jordan.
Here's a tweet from him.
He says, I wonder who Joel is referring to here.
And then he quotes a part of my sermon, part of this clip, where I say, It is only when you get the lowest IQ population, the poorest population, the highest statistically criminalized population, and give them an equal vote with heritage Americans.
So he's insinuating that I'm saying black people can't vote.
Let's go ahead and watch the clip.
It is actually a benefit when there is an aristocracy, whether formally or informally, meaning when there is a class of citizens that is a subset of the population as a whole that have been groomed and trained rigorously in virtue, in intellect, in philosophy, and most importantly, the scriptures, and that they would be appointed to lead.
And the peanut gallery wouldn't.
But our sacred democracy, you know why Democrats love democracy so much?
Because only when you have universal suffrage do you get a Democrat elected.
It is only when you get the lowest IQ population, the poorest population, the highest statistically criminalized population, and give them an equal vote with heritage Americans who have been here for 400 years.
Who work hard, who pay the bulk of the taxes, and who are outstanding citizens who have not broken the law.
It is only when you make everyone else an equal voter to them that you get someone like Ilhan Omar in a political office.
Nancy Pelosi, Joe Biden.
So true, King.
Absolutely true.
Our founders had absolutely nothing positive to say about a raw democracy, a mob rule democracy whatsoever.
The whole goal was to give us a constitutional republic.
Now, the reality is that on paper, we still have a constitutional republic, but in function, that is long gone.
And it's time for us to simply call a spade a spade and acknowledge that it's gone.
Benjamin Franklin, he was asked specifically, Mr. Franklin, what did you give us?
And he said, A republic if you can keep it.
And the verdict has come back in.
We did not, in fact, keep it.
Our constitutional republic has devolved into a mob rule democracy.
And none of the founders had anything positive to say about democracy.
And more importantly, the scripture.
The Bible has nothing positive to say about democracy.
You want to find democracy, biblical examples of democracy in the Bible?
Here's one.
Pilate turns to the crowd, to the Jews, and says, Who do you want?
Who do you want me to release, to set free, Barabbas or Jesus?
And the crowd, in their sacred democracy, says, Barabbas, Barabbas, give us Barabbas.
And then Pilate turns and says, Well, then what do you want me to do with Christ?
What do you want me to do with Jesus?
And they say, Crucify him, crucify him.
Biblically speaking, this is what democracy has accomplished throughout human history.
The death of Of the Lord of glory.
The crucifixion of Christ, the most heinous, wicked act that has ever occurred in the history of the world.
Democracy sucks.
Democracy is not an inherent virtue.
There's nothing sacred about it.
And so, what I'm espousing in that sermon clip, you might say, Well, how did you get there?
Because I was railing against liberalism and egalitarianism.
And egalitarianism runs all the way down, it is not just the difference between men and women.
Well, I'm not an egalitarian, I'm a complementarian.
We have male elders, and we only allow men to preach on the Lord's day, except for on Mother's Day.
We might have Beth Moore come in and preach at our church.
No, you're an egalitarian.
You are a feminist.
But feminism is just one expression of egalitarianism.
Liberalism is like the car, egalitarianism is the engine.
And out of egalitarianism comes feminism.
But another thing that comes out of egalitarianism is democracy.
See, it's not just that Johnny and Jackie are different, but also Johnny and Jimmy are different.
Johnny may grow up to be a statesman.
And Jimmy, by the grace of God and the strength that the Holy Spirit supplies, may grow up to be a wonderful plumber.
And that's okay.
No one should demean or disparage Jimmy for being a plumber.
But Jimmy and Johnny are not the same.
Not everyone is the same.
And the idea that our nation and its entire political and cultural future would be dictated by everyone is not an advantage.
It's not a benefit.
No, I was not specifically, exclusively referencing black people.
But I'm not going to sit here and be dishonest.
I will tell you from the statistics yes, the policies, the criteria that I would.
Humbly suggest for who should vote in America, they would disproportionately affect black people.
All right.
And so I tweeted this out and responded to a guy named Joel Richardson.
Let's pull this tweet up.
Joel Richardson, he picked up this clip that was going viral.
He says, Joel Webbin has already been very vocal about his view that women should not have the right to vote.
Yes and amen.
Repeal the 19th Amendment.
Zero apology.
The 19th Amendment is a wicked, heinous sin that exalts, it split the household.
So much of the divorce and families falling apart, you can trace it all back.
To the 19th Amendment, when we split the family, when we split God in His Word says, What God has brought together, man and woman in marriage, let no man put asunder.
The 19th Amendment, it split husband and wife.
Husbands, as the head of their household, cast the family vote.
That's the way that it was done.
That's the way that it should be done.
So Joel Richardson says, Well, Joel's already been vocal about the fact that he's not a raging feminist, correct?
The fact that he thinks that we should go back to American policy.
Not that long ago, here in this country where the 19th Amendment wasn't a thing, correct.
And here, he picks back up, here he's essentially arguing the same for black Americans.
Only heritage Americans, according to Joel, should have the right to vote.
And then he puts in parentheses there, when he says heritage Americans, he means whites like himself.
So I retweeted Joel Richardson, who is a raging Zionist, just for the record.
His ultimate allegiance is not to Christianity, not historic Christianity, but to Zionism.
Right, this is why he follows me and this is why he retweets me negatively and is trying to take me down.
It's not so much his allegiance to I'm concerned about black people, nope, he is concerned for Jews, he is concerned for Zionism.
So, here's my response I said, Here's my criteria for voting.
All right, I put five things now, I would personally add a couple more, but this was just me responding as quickly as I could.
I said, Here's five criteria for voting.
Number one, America should be a Christian nation, I'm a Christian nationalist, and so yes, I would require a public profession of faith.
That you're a Christian in order to vote.
So, my first requirement before getting into anything else is faith.
It's religion.
You should be a Christian.
Well, what kind of Christian, Joel?
A creedal, historic creed Christian.
You should publicly affirm, you should have to publicly affirm the Nicene Creed, the Apostles' Creed.
Well, what about Catholics?
Could they vote?
Yes.
Well, what about Eastern Orthodox?
Yes.
Well, what about Baptists and Anglicans and Episcopalians and Presbyterians?
Yes.
What about Mormons?
No.
It's a cult.
No.
No, they don't believe that Jesus is the creator.
They believe that he is the first created.
They believe he's the first created, but not creator.
They're non Trinitarian.
No, of course, they can't vote.
They're not Christian.
Jehovah's Witness, what about them?
Nope, they're not Christian.
Seventh day Adventists, nope, they're not Christian.
It is a cult.
Okay, but what about Muslims?
No way.
What about Jews?
No way.
Hindus?
No way.
Atheists?
No way.
Well, what about white European descendants who worship Thor?
No way.
Christian, that's first.
Second, you must be a male adult.
No women voting.
No, you must be a male adult.
Number three, you must be married.
You must be married.
Why?
Not everybody can have kids.
But I would be using marriage in order to indicate.
Of course, there are exceptions.
Some people can't have kids.
But what it indicates is that this person, right?
Because one of the main purposes of God for marriage, yes, marriage reflects the eternal marriage between Christ and the church, right?
That is one of the purposes for marriage.
But another major purpose for marriage listed in the scripture is procreation, right?
It's posterity, it's future generations.
The person who foregoes marriage is a person who ultimately does not have stock in the future of our country.
So you need to be Christian, you need to be male, you need to be married, right?
Meaning that you have a stake in future generations.
If you're going to dictate decisions politically and culturally for the future of our nation, you need to have a stake in its future, that you're going to have your own descendants who are going to bear.
The consequences, the results of the decisions that you're making when you cast your vote.
Here's the fourth thing third generation American.
That's what I mean when I say heritage American.
Third generation American on both sides of the family, both the mother and the father.
Why?
Because you need to have a stake in the future of the country, you're married, and a stake in the past.
If you just showed up, I don't care how much you love apple pie, I don't care if you've clicked your heels together, said the magic words, you know, memorized and regurgitated the Declaration of Independence, and you said the magic words while Standing on the magic soil, and you got a piece of paper that says you're a citizen, you are not an American, and you will never be an American.
That doesn't mean that you can't be here peacefully, and that doesn't mean that your descendants, generations down the line, won't eventually be Americans.
But you are not an American.
And I don't mean that in a rude way.
I mean that you're, I'm sorry, you are what you are, right?
You're here on an H 1B visa from India, you're Indian.
You're living in America, but you're not American.
Of course, you're not American, but I gain citizenship.
Right, then you have an American citizenship, but you're not an American.
If I move to Japan and I get Japanese citizenship, I will still never be Japanese.
And I think that a country that has its highest allegiance, that's truly America first, has its highest loyalty to its native citizens, should not give voting rights.
There may be some form of citizenship, but there must be reserved a full voting citizenship for native citizens, those who have stock in the country.
They have a stake in its future, they're married, and they have a stake in its history, its heritage, its past.
They are third generation Americans, right?
So you need to be third generation American.
Number five, net positive taxpayer.
Of course, there would be some exceptions, right?
If you're a vet, you served in the military, you went to war, you lost your legs fighting for your country, now you can't work and you're on disability and you take more in taxes than you contribute, you get to vote.
You're American.
God bless you.
Thank you for your service.
And I'm sorry that the war that you lost your legs in was probably our country sending you to fight for Israel.
Seriously, I'm sincerely sorry about the wickedness of America that would send its sons and its daughters, because we're so wicked.
To go and die for a foreign country instead of our own.
But yes, that guy gets to vote.
What I'm talking about, so there are some exceptions, but I'm talking about the typical person, right?
Not the disabled vet, but the typical person who is a perpetual welfare class who takes from the system far more over the course of their life than they give to the system.
If you are taking more from taxes than you are giving in taxes, then you should not get a vote.
No way.
And then I forgot a couple more, but dual citizen.
And we'll get to that here in just a moment.
If you are a dual citizen, then you should not be able to vote.
If you're going to vote in America, right, so you can have some form of citizenship, you can live here peacefully, you shouldn't be mistreated, you should be equal under the law, but you don't get a vote.
If you want to vote in America, then you need to be solely loyal to America.
And what that looks like is relinquishing your citizenship in some other foreign country.
Ruth came in as a Moabitess woman.
She came into Israel, right?
Assimilation is a thing, it does exist.
She came in to Israel.
But here's the thing She says, Your people will be my people, your God will be my God.
And what she meant by that, right, the necessary implications of that is that she was forsaking her previous people, her homeland, her heritage, and she was forsaking her false Moabite gods.
So she doesn't come into Israel and set up shrines, public shrines in the public square to false Moabite gods.
Right.
No, no.
And she doesn't maintain citizenship in Moab.
No, she's saying, Your people will be my people.
Your God will be my God.
And what that means is she doesn't have one foot in both camps.
She's fully integrating into Israel.
Forsaking False Moabite Gods00:15:23
Okay.
So, no, no dual citizenship if you're going to be a full voting citizen in America.
So, you must be Christian.
You must be male.
You must be married.
You must be third generation American, heritage American.
You must be a net positive tax.
Payer, and you also cannot have dual citizenship.
And then, of course, we might also add you can't be a criminal.
If you have a criminal record, right, not speeding tickets, but a criminal record, then no, you don't get to vote, right?
So that would be now seven different criteria for voting.
Nowhere in that did I say that this group of people, based on their race, cannot vote.
Again, though, I acknowledge fully because it's simply a fact that this would disproportionately affect some peoples more than others.
Right?
This would disproportionately affect black people.
Why?
Because black people, statistically, it is proven, it's a reality.
I don't form reality.
Don't get mad at me.
Reality is reality.
Black people commit higher crime than white people, significantly higher crime than white people.
Black men abandon their children and their wives more than white people.
Notice when I said married, that also would disclude those who have been divorced.
You divorce your wife, you abandon your family, you don't get to vote.
Well, but that's going to affect a lot of black men, correct?
So they need to be better men.
Yeah, we don't want garbage people voting.
There are garbage white people, there are garbage black people.
Yeah, but Joel, there's more black people that want to get.
Sorry.
This sounds like they need to step it up.
Sounds like they need to repent.
Yeah, you don't get to divorce your wife and leave your kids.
You don't get to be on the welfare system.
And you don't get to be a criminal committing crime and vote in the country.
So, yes, these policies you need to be a Christian.
You need to be a man.
You need to be married and stay married.
And you've got to be a net positive taxpayer.
That means you provide for your kids.
And you don't make Daddy Sam, not just Uncle Sam, but Daddy Sam provide for your kids.
And you need to be third generation American.
So let's go now to the next tweet.
This is the next thing that I said.
Joel Richardson, he just clapped back, kept tweeting, kept tweeting.
He said, Well, given that many black Americans can trace their ancestry in this country back to the 1600s, often longer than the majority of white families now here, are they full heritage Americans in your view?
He's asking me.
Or is that term simply a sanitized way of saying white?
So I retweeted him and answered, Honestly, this has been my public position again and again.
I said, Yes, I have publicly said this countless times, despite being mocked even by those to my right.
Clarence Thomas, Supreme Court Justice, is a heritage American.
I support his right to vote and hold office.
And you, Joel Richardson, are a slanderous Zionist.
Okay, so there's my answer.
All right, now let's go to the next thing, all right, because it gets better for the last two days now, not just one clip, but another one.
All right, the culprit this time is an account titled Unsupervised Women Tweening.
Right.
So you know it's going to be garbage.
Unsupervised women tweeting.
I assume that this is a single, you know, wine drinking cat lady, but if she does have a husband, shame on that man.
Please take away your wife's phone.
She says this Joel Webbins plan to humanely remove Jews from America by pressuring them to self deport through religious oppression and laws designed to target Joel's favorite anti Semitic stereotypes.
And then she plays, shares this clip from one of our podcasts.
And of course, James Lindsay.
Retweets her.
He couldn't help himself.
This is the renowned atheist who spent his young adult years for about a decade with a new atheist movement trying to destroy Christianity.
And yet we have Christian pastors who are supporting him publicly.
Okay.
But James Lindsay picks it up and says, Never again is now.
Right?
Joel is Hitler.
Never again is now.
Well, let's go ahead and see the clip that they're both so worried about.
Here we go.
That I'm making is I want to see Jews believe in Jesus and be saved.
Okay, but I also want them to stop being a problem here.
And I'm trying to make an argument for how this can be done humanely.
Like, one way is hey, you can't have dual citizenship anymore, Ben Shapiro.
You have to choose.
What do you think Ben Shapiro is going to choose?
And you don't even have to necessarily kick people out, but just say full participating citizens, citizens who vote, citizens who hold office, cannot hold citizenship in any other country.
Correct.
And that doesn't mean to say if you have a home here, oh, kick it to the curb.
No, we're not.
Yeah, we're not saying that.
But if you're going to hold that dual citizenship, You don't get along here.
But then you are forfeiting your citizenship here.
So you can still live here obeying the laws of the land, but you no longer have full citizenship.
You're not able to vote.
You're not able to hold office.
So that's a citizenship piece.
Another piece would be banning, making it illegal for there to be any kind of pornography.
That will affect all people, but it will affect different peoples disproportionately.
And it will affect Jews more.
Jews are disproportionately involved, not all Jews, but disproportionately involved in pornography.
So, ban pornography.
Another one, ban exorbitant forms of usury, loan sharks, things that prey on the poor, right?
So, I'm not talking about 3% interest for a mortgage to own a physical asset to get a home because you can't save up in cash to be able to drop 300 grand and buy a house.
But I'm talking about paying interest on burritos.
I'm talking about the poorest of the poor who has to go and get an early paycheck and then has to pay interest on that and just dig a deeper and deeper hole and is never able to get out of it.
So, exorbitant, wicked forms of Of usury.
Again, Jews are not all Jews, but Jews are disproportionately involved in that practice.
That would affect them disproportionately.
So, pornography, usury, dual citizenship.
And then, no, I do not believe there should be any public expressions of religion and worship, public expressions of worship to false gods, false religions in these United States.
So, I'm not talking about like Minority Report with Tom Cruise, you know, where you're trying to predict crimes.
And you're entering in, you know, breaking down the door and entering into somebody's private home and rounding them up.
I'm not talking about that.
What I am talking about, though, is no, I do not believe that we should have mosques.
I do not believe that we should have synagogues.
I do not believe that we should have, certainly not these 90 foot tall, you know, demon statues outside of Houston.
You know, they have one.
No, there should not be public expressions of false worship.
So true.
Well said, Joel.
Thanks, Joel.
Agree with it 100%.
Yeah, ban pornography.
Pornography should not only be a sin, but biblically speaking, it should also be a crime.
It should be a crime.
It should be banned, and there should be a penalty.
In addition to that, banning exorbitant forms of usury, right?
Financing burritos.
Gen Z, it is virtually impossible for an entire generation of Americans to ever own a home.
That's wicked.
That's absolutely wicked.
So, yes, ban exorbitant forms of usury, ban pornography.
I've already stated it in my criteria for voting.
Yes, if you're a dual citizen, you shouldn't vote in America.
You should have to relinquish citizenship in that other country of origin and only have citizenship in America if you're going to have full voting citizenship.
Absolutely.
And then, in terms of public displays of idolatry, guys, that's what it is.
We need to be honest as Christians and call it what it is.
If it's Islam, they worship a false God.
It is idolatry.
If it's Judaism, they worship a false God.
It is idolatry.
If it's Hinduism, they worship a false God.
It is idolatry.
And to think, God bless America as we raise altars in our nation to false gods and blaspheme Christ and think that God's going to bless us?
No.
No.
Well, religious freedom.
Religious freedom is idolatry.
I'll say it again.
Religious freedom is wrong.
It's not just wrong.
It's not just less than ideal or unstrategic.
Religious freedom is heinous.
It's wicked.
God hates it.
It is idolatry.
No, we should not allow public expressions of idolatry, right?
You're not going into people's private homes and rounding up Muslims who are praying in their basement.
That's not what I'm talking about.
But exalting statues.
In America, to false gods.
No, the statue should be torn down, ground into pieces, and flushed down the toilet.
But maybe not because there's already enough birth control that's been flushed down the toilet and it's turning the frogs gay and a decent amount of the men.
Okay, so maybe not the toilet part, but yeah, those statues should be ground to dust.
Well, what about a mosque?
What about a synagogue?
No, no public expressions of worship to idols, to false gods.
And so if we did this, here was my whole point.
My point was you're not rounding people up, you're not putting them on trains, you're not putting them in camps.
No, you're simply enacting Christian policies.
But once again, just like my criteria for voting, it would disproportionately affect black people more than white people.
That's true.
Well, likewise, these policies would disproportionately cause Jews to want to self deport more than other people groups.
Okay.
But it's based on merit, it's based on scripture, it's based on what's inherently moral, right?
I don't know what to tell you about this.
So, no, I'm not going to apologize.
I'm going to just keep saying it.
And I'll probably add a few more sins to the list as we continue.
But people were picking this up.
James Lindsay, never again.
Never again.
I can't believe it.
I can't believe it.
This is Weimar, Germany.
Yeah, well, you know what?
The Nazis drank water, and I drink water too.
You know, there were some good policies.
Do I agree with everything?
No.
But no, I'm not going to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
There were some policies where, if a woman had, with each child she had, 25% of her property taxes were cut off.
If she had four children, no property taxes for life.
If a woman had, I believe it was either six or eight children, they'd throw a public parade in her honor and crown her with a wreath around her neck.
Yeah, those are inherently good things.
To give a benefit, a tangible benefit to motherhood and to families who are raising children, to honor mothers publicly.
Yeah, that's a good thing.
Okay, so if there is something that happened in Weimar, Germany, that is inherently good to say never again, right?
Because of Weimar, because they burned pornography books, then we can't ban pornography?
No, let God be true and every man a liar.
If they did that, and they did, and it was right, then we should do it too.
And whatever they did, here's a crazy position, guys.
My position, Joel Weber, I'm going to say it publicly.
Oh my goodness, this is going to be crazy.
It's going to be bold.
Joel Webbin publicly supports anything that the Nazis did that was according to God's word.
And Joel Webbin disagrees and condemns anything that the Nazis may or may not have done that disagrees and goes against God's word.
That's my position.
I actually hold that position also for Stalin and for Mao and for anybody else, anyone on the planet.
I agree with everyone on the planet throughout all of human history insofar as their words or actions in that moment lined up with the word of God.
And I disagree with anyone throughout human history on the planet who said something or did something that contradicts the word of God.
Never again?
Grow up, James Lindsay.
No, we will do again and again and again whatever God's word requires us to do.
And if it disproportionately affects one group of people more than another group of people, so be it.
If this would, and I believe it would, I do believe it would cause Jews to self deport from America at a higher rate than other people.
Because Jews are disproportionately involved in pornography.
They are disproportionately involved in usury.
But that's not my fault.
Those things are wrong.
And it leaves open the option.
Here's another option.
Jews could stop.
They could stop doing those things.
Here's an even better option.
They could repent of their sins and believe upon the Lord Jesus Christ and stop blaspheming him.
There's an option.
Or they could self deport.
There is nothing wrong with that position.
So, Wasson Watch, who is an absolute Zionist shill, And it's really sad to see him crash out over the past couple of months now.
He retweeted James Lindsay and these guys who are doing this clip.
And he says, being more moderately wrong is still wrong.
So he even has to acknowledge, yeah, Joel's position actually isn't that extreme.
It is more moderate.
But he says, being more moderately wrong is still wrong.
And when it comes to something as insidious as this, my clip, that clip you just watched from me, then it's egregious.
So he's saying that clip, banning pornography, bannering.
Banning exorbitant forms of usury, not allowing dual citizens to vote in our elections, and banning idolatry, public forms of idolatry.
And this is an abolitionist, for the record, allegedly.
This is a guy who has been an outspoken Christian, who has sought for social and political reform, ending abortion.
And yet he, I say, yeah, we should stop public expressions of idolatry, whether it be a synagogue or a mosque.
We should stop it.
And he's saying this is insidious and egregious.
So I retweeted him and simply asked, What part of this was insidious?
Was it banning pornography?
Was it banning exorbitant forms of usury?
Banning public displays of false worship and idolatry?
Or was it allowing dual citizenship individuals to live here peacefully but requiring single allegiance to America for voting and holding public office?
Is Banning Usury Insidious00:02:37
None of these positions are insidious.
Many of these positions are historic Christian policies.
Friend, you are supposed to be a Christian.
You can and should love Jews, that is, desiring their repentance and salvation.
But it's posts like this that clearly convey your highest allegiance is to Jews, not Christ.
And there you have it.
I believe that's all we've got on deck.
Correct, Nathan?
Oh, no, we have one more.
One more.
So then people said, okay, well, yeah, I guess your policies of banning usury and banning pornography and these kinds of things.
On the merit of the actual policies, I guess that's not anti Semitic.
I guess that's not actually hateful.
I guess it's not insidious.
But what is insidious is the fact that you think that it would affect Jews more than other people.
So then I tweeted this out Joel's proposal, quoting my opponents, Joel's proposal for banning pornography and usury isn't a problem.
It's the fact that he thinks Jews are disproportionately involved in these practices.
And then I said, Man, you guys are going to be furious when you hear what this renowned anti Semite has to say.
Who is the renowned anti Semite?
Well, It's the Jewish man named Dennis Prager.
Take a listen.
Every ism except Nazism was founded andor led disproportionately by Jews.
And I would add to that communism and also transgenderism.
Dennis Prager.
So, yes, it would disproportionately affect Jews because Jews, not all, but disproportionately so, have been involved in multiple atrocities throughout history.
So, the policy should be cut it out, and if not, leave.
Not crazy, not insidious, not egregious, Christian.
Christ is king.
Christ is king.
And I will not apologize.
I will say it again and again and again.
And all the haters and all the opposition, you can cope and seethe.
Christ Is King No Apology00:15:06
Tune in now.
Sometimes you just got to get that quick 45 minute cold open.
Just slip it in.
Yeah, I think it was like 30 minutes.
Thanks for hanging with us.
There was just, there was a lot to cover.
Yes, part of it was covering my positions, but part of it was the sequence of events that have unfolded in the providence of God over the last 24 to 48 hours with this person tweeting and this video going viral and then this other one going viral and James Lindsay enters the fray and unsupervised women tweeting.
Wasson, watch.
When is he going to move to Israel?
You know what I mean?
I just feel like, just be honest.
Just, just, there's probably going to be some land in Gaza pretty soon, wide open.
Yeah, you know what?
There will be new building.
Yeah.
Yeah.
New construction.
I hear, settling now.
I hear that the, uh, it won't be that fertile though, because I hear that the soil is just, uh, made of glass.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I didn't know.
Glass, rubble.
Yeah.
They'll have great.
Yeah.
The interest rates will be terrible.
Um, anyways.
So yeah, there was just a lot going on.
And the reason why I wanted to cover all this, and I'm going to turn it to West Antonio to see what they think, but, um, I wanted to cover all that because here's the deal.
Um, There's been multiple times where somebody clips me out, takes me out of context, I go viral.
And believe it or not, I know that the haters will obviously think that this is untrue, but it is true.
A lot of times we don't respond.
We just move on with the next episode.
This thing happens, this controversy, this scandal, this whatever, and we just move on, and we just move on, and we just move on.
But this is what I'm realizing as I'm even getting counsel from friends and family and people who are close, Solid believers that I trust are like, Joel, you need to lean in.
You need to lean in.
You're right.
We know you're right.
You know you're right.
Most importantly, your conscience is clear before the Lord.
And you need to lean in.
Every single one of these other people, you know, who, you know, doing a podcast or something like that, they like, if somebody says something about them, that's the next episode for like the, you know, the next four weeks, you know, straight.
Whether it be Candace Owens or whether it be, what's his name?
Jason Whitlock, you know.
Dennis Breger.
Yeah.
Or whether it be even Doug Wilson, you know.
So, like, Doug Wilson will, and Doug Wilson, it's not just, oh, well, that's CNN.
That's a really big deal.
Doug Wilson will have, like, somebody from the White Horse Inn or somebody at Westminster Escondido, like an adjunct professor who 35 hours a week is serving as a custodian and then teaches one class.
Will write a blog read by three people and say something, and Doug Wilson will respond.
He'll do a whole episode.
Here's my response.
And I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but I'm just saying Doug Wilson for years has had, here's my controversy page, right?
Because people will just regurgitate the same controversies.
Well, did you hear that blah, So he has literally like an archive.
And it's pretty much, I think it's gotten to that point, probably got to that point like two or three years ago for me.
But at this point, it's like, okay, the people who have been following, And who appreciate this ministry, they know, right?
They're fine.
And the people who hate me are going to keep hating me no matter what I say.
But the reality that I'm coming to is like some of these clips that went viral over the last couple of days have like close to half a million views.
And what I'm realizing is it's not just haters and fans, you know, or haters and friends.
There is a half a million other people outside of those two categories that are third party, standing on the sidelines, and neutral.
They're not really predisposed either way.
And if I just responded or clarified or whatever, there's a lot of people who might be won over.
So that's what everybody does.
Everybody who is a public figure of any degree whatsoever, they respond.
And so I'm going to start leaning in on some things.
And I hope that God blesses it.
For those of you guys who've been following along the whole time, I understand you'll be like, ah, we already knew this.
Yeah, but a lot of people don't.
I mean, Candace Owens, how many episodes has she done about what's his name?
Bridget.
You see what I did there?
What's his name?
I don't know.
I don't know if the dude's a dude or if the dude's a girl.
I don't really care that much.
But the point is, Candace Owens said something, boom, they fired back.
And that's been like half of her show.
Candace Owens is like, if you look at her show over the last three months, it's 80% arguing back and forth with the latest tweet from the French embassy, you know, whatever.
Like it's responding to that or the latest development in her drama with Nick Fuentes.
And then about 10%, it's like 40% this, 50% that.
And then 10% might be a news story.
It might actually, oh, we're actually going to do a real episode today about something that's going on.
And that's just what she does.
And it's not just Candace Owens.
It is a lot of people in media.
Steven Crowder, this person, that person.
Like, it's pretty common.
Matt Walsh.
I like Matt Walsh.
I'm not hating on him, but Matt Walsh be like, here's the news, here's the news.
But then he'll have half of his episode on a regular basis or a third of his episode, a major segment being, I'm responding to so and so who levied this accusation against me or, you know, blah, blah, blah.
So I'm going to start leaning in.
Here's the deal, though.
I need one big favor for you.
First and foremost, please pray.
We need you, we covet your prayers.
Please pray for us that God would keep us, He would sustain us, He would protect us, and that He would continue to provide me with courage.
Secondly, I don't want, if I can help it, and I can't, not right now, but I would like to get to the place.
Me and Wes were talking about it, me and Antonio.
Our goal is to get to the place where we don't have to do any advertisements.
We would like to be fully listener supported.
And I get people who email me all the time, messaging me, DMing me, texting me, calling me, saying, I'm with you, brother.
Keep up the fight.
Stay bold.
You're one of the only Protestants who is not a Zionist sellout.
You're one of the only guys who knows what time it is and who has courage.
There's some Catholics doing it, some Eastern Orthodox, but like Protestants.
I'm a Protestant, and you're the only guy I see in the public sphere saying some of these things.
So keep going, keep going, keep going.
And this is my humble request.
I'm not trying to guilt anybody.
I'm not.
It is simply a request.
We need your support.
We need your prayers, first and foremost, but we also need your generosity.
We need your financial support.
I promise you, by God's grace, I will not quit.
And I've heard people say, you know, the only way they can take you out is if you quit.
That's technically not true.
There are two ways I can be taken out one is I finally just get sick of it.
And my family can't bear the pressure anymore.
Too many death threats, too much drama, too much pressure.
So, one way is quitting.
The second way, though, is I can't pay my team.
These guys have to feed their family.
People think I'm a mastermind with social media behind the scenes, coordinating with this and that.
I don't even know how to run my own Twitter account.
I'm barely functioning at that level.
If I don't have Nathan, Over there in the corner doing all the cameras and the tech and this and that, like, then we're done.
We're done.
Part of the reason why we go viral, part of the reason why everybody copes and sees and they're upset is because they view us as a threat.
There are other people who say the kinds of things that we say that they don't feel threatened by nearly as much as us.
And part of the reason is because we strive for excellence in our production.
Part of the reason there's a sense of us being a threat is because there's a certain validity, a certain integrity that comes with high production value.
The fact that I'm not simply sitting in a blank room with a webcam.
Like, we've gone above and beyond to maintain excellence in production.
But that costs money.
To be able to do what we do, we have a full team of five people that are dependent.
And so I promise you, by the grace of God, as God is my witness, I will not quit.
I will not give up the fight.
If you help me, To keep me in the fight.
If enough people, and it doesn't even take that many, but if enough people say, you know what, that's it.
I've been encouraged by Joel for long enough, and I'm going to put my money where my mouth is, and I'm going to monthly support him.
I'm going to monthly support Right Response Ministries.
If enough people do that and say, I'm going to give 20 bucks a month, I'm going to give 50 bucks a month, I'm going to give $100 a month, and just enough people get together and do that, then what that accomplishes is very simple.
We become bulletproof.
We can become bulletproof.
We become invincible.
We cannot be taken out.
And here's the thing there are hundreds, if not thousands, of people who are trying to take us out.
You see it.
You see it online.
You see this story, this story, this story, this story, this post, this post, this post.
It is an immense amount of pressure that we have been under, that I have been under, an immense amount of pressure.
The amount of death threats, the pressure, and they don't just put pressure on me because they know I won't fold.
So, what they do is they put pressure on people who are close to me.
So, like, well, you know, we can't stop him, so we'll go after members in his church.
Because then they'll leave his church.
They'll get to the point where, you know, it's too hot in the kitchen.
They just, enough is enough.
And they leave the church and they stop tithing, and that'll shut him down.
He'll be financially destitute.
They're trying to crush us financially.
That's what they're trying to do.
They're trying to crush us financially.
Because at the end of the day, this is in the mind of our opponents, this is what they're thinking.
We cannot have a Protestant pastor.
Because he's not just a Christian, he's a pastor, he's a minister.
And he's Protestant and he has high level production and he's speaking about these things, shut it down.
We got to shut him down.
And what I'm telling you is that if you really believe in what we're doing, I appreciate all the encouragement.
I appreciate you writing in.
It means the world.
But if you can, if you can't, you can't.
And I'm not going to give you grief.
But if you can financially afford it, if enough of you would get together and say, our job, Is we're going to make sure that Joel is bulletproof.
We're going to be right response top guys.
And we're going to keep him in the fight so that his enemies, despite all their attempts, cannot take him out.
Then we become invincible.
And it's not just that we get to continue what we're doing now, we have massive plans.
Big, big things are in the works.
We are having conversations behind the scenes, the whiteboards are out.
The numbers are being crunched.
The strategy is happening.
Massive plans.
And you will see them unfold in short order.
But people, I think our opponents know that.
And they are trying to, ultimately, they're trying to extinguish the flame before we can get there.
And right now, it feels like there is a window.
I don't want to give my opponents too much credit, but it feels like there is a window of opportunity where they could crush me.
And you guys, if you're able to and willing, you could help sustain me.
You could.
That's your choice, it's between you and the Lord.
But that's my humble request.
Would you be a Right Response Ministries top guy?
Would you keep us in the fray?
Would you be a shield for us?
Would you make us bulletproof to where our enemies cannot stop us so that I can remain as one of the very few Protestant pastoral voices addressing these issues in a time in our nation, in our culture, where it is desperately needed?
And from the bottom of my heart, I thank you for considering that prayerfully.
All right, guys.
What do you think about the recent drama, all the controversy?
Any thoughts?
You just come out.
No thoughts whatsoever.
I want to start with voting.
It is a lot of this is wrapped up in the post war consensus.
We've talked about it a lot, but man, there's something about voting and saying, eh, maybe these people shouldn't vote, or eh, we don't think this is the best use.
That man, it gets people riled up.
Like compare Rome and Greece, for instance.
Strict requirements on voting.
Like one of the biggest things about Joel, I think I could say about everything you said, it's reasonable.
I'm sure of everyone listening, we've got almost 800 people on the line.
I'm sure you ask all those 800 people and you'll get 800 different opinions on exactly what flavor they would have.
Maybe some of them would prefer a monarchy, some would have a bigger democracy, a smaller democracy.
But I think what you can say about your position is that this is reasonable and it's not historically unprecedented.
For hundreds of years in the West, hey, if you're going to participate in politics and civic life, the bar is this high to ride.
Like that is just not unprecedented.
You are not the first person to come along and say, hey, the health and wealth of our republic as it is now depends on smart, Competent men that have the time for politics participating in it.
Like, that is not the craziest idea whatsoever.
It only becomes a crazy idea when people's greatest commitment is to principles of liberalism and of democracy and of universal participation.
That's when you start getting clutching the pearls.
And again, you may disagree, but what you have to say about his position is like, that's reasonable.
There's historical precedent to it.
And there's nothing in the Bible that requires X, Y, and Z people to get to vote.
There just isn't.
The Bible, at a general level, Is silent on who participates and who doesn't.
So, that's one of the first thoughts I had.
It's a good thought.
Yeah, I agree with that.
And going back to your opening statement, Joel, with respect to your assessment of, yeah, there's haters and there's people who love you.
And then there's this whole group in the middle.
And I think, I very strongly believe that all men have an obligation, not just the right, but the obligation to defend their character on biblical grounds.
Biblical Reasons for Exclusion00:11:02
So, that's the first point.
But then you also further have an obligation to, to the extent that you can, to clarify.
And I'm thinking for all of the people who are like, oh, what's going on exactly?
I'm trying to make sense of these things.
You should clarify what your position is and the way that it is reasoned, as Wes indicated, for their sake.
And I think these things are helpful.
So I think it's right that we're doing that.
On the point of voting specifically, I agree.
As I look into American history particularly, because you don't have to go back to the ancients to understand that universal suffrage is a really modern idea.
Even in the colonial period in America, You see this idea of voting being a moral trust and it's tied to virtue.
It's no different than any company that someone watching would work at.
Do they vote?
Do they control the day to day operations?
No.
Someone who is qualified, who's been at the company presumably for many, many more years than them, who owns the company outright, so has some skin in the game, some financial stake, they're the people making the decisions.
So, this idea that voting is a natural right is very, very new.
And you can see this happen somewhere, from my assessment, somewhere in the mid 19th century here in America.
And I agree, Wes, you're totally right.
This has become sort of the bedrock of liberalism, is that all people, Are equal in every way.
But here's the reality.
This is what the Bible says.
This is biblical anthropology.
Equal in value does not mean equal in authority.
Right.
That's right.
That's husband and wife, right?
Co heir in grace, right?
The same text that says, you know, live with your wives in an understanding manner, recognizing that she too is a co heir in grace, meaning that in the ultimate eternal sense, there's an equal weight, equal dignity, equal value.
But right before it, it says, husbands, live with your wives in an understanding manner.
Knowing that she is the weaker vessel.
So, on the one hand, in a temporal sense, she's weaker objectively.
And that's not just speaking to the physical.
But then, on the other hand, she is an equal.
So, like a lot of conservative Protestants, allegedly conservative, whatever that means, biblically conservative Protestants would say, oh, we're not egalitarian.
Like we understand that the husband is the authority.
And so then you can just snap back and say, Yeah, so the wife is, her eternal spiritual value is inferior to his, correct?
They'd be like, no, no, no.
It's like, uh huh, yeah.
All right, now let's piece it together.
Let's just go a little bit further, right?
Like, apply that nationally now, right?
So the idea that, well, this person has a say and this person doesn't does not mean that those people aren't still both image bearers of the living God.
But that's not where voting comes from.
I kept seeing that over the last couple of days, people saying, Well, women bear the image of God just like men.
Yeah.
So does a five year old, but five year olds don't get to vote.
So are we going to say, well, children don't get to vote because they don't have God's image?
Make me that argument.
You can't.
Children have the image of God just like adults.
And yet we're perfectly fine recognizing, yeah, but they don't get a say in the country.
They shouldn't.
It's not crazy.
Yeah.
I mean, people are submitting to authority all the time on the basis of qualification.
If I go out, I get pulled over.
I'm going to pull.
I see a cop.
I'm going to say, I'm going to pull over.
This guy has authority over me in this context.
Why?
Because he's qualified.
He's trained in the law.
He has been appointed, duly appointed to have this authority, so on and so forth.
So, I mean, you know, the same people are saying this about voting are going to Disneyland or they're getting stopped by, you know, park officials and, hey, go this way.
And they're like, okay, I'll go that way.
So, like, we, this concept of authority is so, so deeply rooted in people's consciousness.
You know, it's truly, it's a, It's kind of mind boggling that rationally you can't apply that.
Most people can't apply that to governing a nation of all things.
And think of inventing it almost as a sin.
Like this person is in sin because they would say this about people voting or not.
I don't see that anywhere in the Bible.
You're literally going in, you said, well, there's God's law.
And, you know, he did a good job.
They left out one critical piece universal suffrage and people who violate this unspoken, like literally it's accusing them of sin.
That's legalism.
I'm going to, we've got God's standard.
But did he forget to account for 21st century liberal politics?
And they will literally add that.
And they will call for people who publicly say, 'Ah, we should restrict it, we should do it, democracy entirely.' They'll call their pastor, they'll call them out and say, 'You should be kicked out of the church, you should be put under church discipline.' To you, Joel, you're not qualified to be a pastor, literally over opinions on voting.
That's right.
It's incredible.
It's mind blowing.
No, you're absolutely right.
It really is crazy.
And that's why I try to be careful with, you know, there are people who go further than I do.
There are people to my right.
I'm not, believe it or not, I am not even close.
Not only am I not the furthest right person that you will encounter, I'm not even close.
I'm telling you, a day is quickly approaching where people are going to be like, my goodness, give us Joel Webbin back.
That guy was a moderate.
There are people way, way to my right.
But even with those individuals, I always try to be very intentional and not anathematizing someone over extra biblical criteria.
So if somebody says, well, I think that America should only be white, well, I don't.
I think it should be majority white because that is the founding stock of the country.
And the only way I see that ultimately being uprooted, especially as quickly as it has been as of late, Is through artificial manipulative means that I think are truly just hatred towards white people.
So I think that's wicked trying to intentionally, when leaders and elites are intentionally trying to eradicate the founding stock of a nation.
I actually think that's immoral.
But in terms of just like in principle, no matter what, you know, it could be a thousand years from now, no matter what happens, America needs to be exclusively white.
That's not my position.
I disagree with that.
But if somebody says that that is their position, I have to have a biblical reason.
If I'm going to say, if I'm going to elevate that to the level of condemnation, if I'm going to elevate that and say, well, you're anathematized or you're not a Christian, because that's, but that's the rhetoric you hear from people all the time.
They would hear that, and 90% of people would say, that's heresy.
What heresy?
What do you mean?
Like heresy is an actual category.
Heresy means something.
Heresy is not just a blank slate for your creative license and freedom.
Heresy isn't what you make it.
Is determined by the Bible's orthodoxy over primary theological issues.
And then, of course, they would, in typical midwit fashion, they would, well, what about Galatians?
You know, like he tore down the dividing wall of hostility between Jew and Gentile.
Yes, Jews and Gentiles, through faith in Jesus, can both be brothers, spiritual brothers in faith.
But Galatians does not say, or there's neither Jew nor Greek.
Great.
Nowhere in Galatians is it saying, and every country in the world.
Must be diverse ethnically.
That's not what Galatians is talking about.
It's talking about the global, the universal body of Christ.
That the universal body of Christ will have different peoples from every tribe, nation, and language, and that all of them have access to salvation, to eternal life, by grace alone, through faith alone, in Jesus Christ alone.
Gentiles can be saved, Jews can be saved, blacks can be saved, whites can be saved.
But there is no verse in the Bible that says, and every nation.
Under heaven, has to have every single people group on earth represented in that one nation.
There's nothing that says that.
So you can disagree with something and have principled arguments of, you know, philosophical, political arguments, historic arguments.
But to elevate that to a theological category, and especially the degree of heresy, is absolutely insane.
But people can't think.
They cannot.
Think, you have to come to terms with the fact that you are a liberal.
You are.
You are a liberal.
It's 2025.
This is the West.
You're a liberal.
You have been propagandized.
You have been indoctrinated.
You are a liberal.
And your liberalism, if you're a Christian, you have to subject your liberalism to your Christianity.
If not, it is idolatry.
It's idolatry.
And the reality is, I have found time and time and time again in my interaction, not with pagans, but with Christians, I have found that their strongest allegiance is to liberalism, not Christianity.
They will have far more compassion about differing biblical views.
Whether it be pedo baptism versus credo baptism or being a continuationist versus being a cessationist or this or that or the other, what they will not tolerate when they start to levy the charge of heresy, it actually is nothing to do with scripture.
And it's everything to do with something that falls within the category of 20th century liberalism repealing the 19th Amendment.
Heretic.
That is insane.
That's insane.
Great.
All right, let's go.
Let's do our first commercial break and we'll be right back.
Yeah, real quick.
Before we do, I forgot, I should have given the link, but.
Right Response Ministries.com forward slash donate.
For those of you guys who are listening, if you did want to give a charitable gift, we appreciate it greatly.
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All right.
The other big thing I saw the post war consensus.
I feel like it's been a little bit while since we've talked about it.
I don't know, Antonio, I would love to give it to you.
30 seconds.
Like the post World War II consensus.
What is that?
If someone's just coming into it, first time they're hearing us, what are we talking about when we say post war consensus?
Yeah.
So when I think of post war consensus, I think of the set of assumptions that emerged in the mid to late 1940s, not only here in the U.S., but I would say all across the West.
Set of assumptions were around foreign policy.
And with respect to foreign policy, it was motivated by this idea that World War II was incredibly catastrophic.
And so we need to.
Be moderate on all grounds, essentially, to avoid any particular sparks of violence or chaos, so on and so forth.
So, I think that's one of the major assumptions.
But I think the other major assumption that concerns us is our assumption around political moderation and the fundamental beliefs that people just didn't want to talk about anymore.
So, in other words, to avoid chaos, to avoid strong disagreement, people said, let's just agree on these fundamentals.
And then all of our arguments, all of our political debates will just simply be about scale.
So, hey, let's all agree that we should all pay exorbitantly high taxes.
Now, you'll say that it's 80, and I'll say that it's 60, but we agree that we should all pay high taxes.
And so, some of those assumptions obviously were around egalitarianism.
They were around the idea that we're not going to fight over who, you know, who's in some kind of hierarchy.
We're not going to fight over who's more important, who's less important, what religion is more right, which is less right.
We're just going to simply assume that they're all right.
And we'll proceed from there and we'll try to live together.
And so that's what the post war consensus has become.
It's sort of unraveled through time and it's ultimately got us here today.
I will say one quick thing, just to caveat the post war consensus from my perspective, is that I don't want to bind anyone's conscience on a particular reading of history with respect to the post war consensus.
So some people would say, oh, the post war consensus means that you're a World War II revisionist, right?
Or you think you have some particular reading of World War II.
And that's what post war consensus is.
But I actually think that a post war consensus is what it is, irrespective of the cause.
So some people would say the Allies won, and that's what led to the post war consensus.
And some would have other reasons, obviously.
So I think that's what it is, regardless of what caused it.
And we're extrapolating a bit.
The original book that kind of came out of was called The Return of the Strong Gods.
And he deals with the author, R.R. Reno, in a very academic and also in an economic sense open society, and then in academia, less of this assertiveness about truth.
So, there are applications that are very high headed, they're very academic.
But then there's also just kind of the practical, like everything I don't like is Hitler.
And where we're going to pay attention to this, and you can see it in James Lindsay, you can see it in those attacking you, Joel, is it comes into the church.
So, then the church that is supposed to be a spiritual institution, she preaches the word, she administers sacraments, she cares for the souls of its people.
The post war consensus comes to the church.
She being the church, not pastor style.
Not the female pastor.
No, that's the church's role.
But then the post war consensus comes in, and as you were just talking about, we were talking about before the break, and I'm about to illustrate, That comes in, and these literally become articles of faith.
So now you have to hold to, as you said, Antonio, views of, hey, democracy is a good thing.
Hey, people caring for themselves is a bad thing.
We can't do this because 80 years ago, a guy named Hitler loved his people.
This is what happened.
Let me illustrate literally this in progress.
This is happening in progress.
Wasn't this kind of in response to me?
I think it was.
I don't know if it was directly.
It was one of the clips, I think the one that James Lindsay retweeted where I was saying, this is what I think should be done.
And how I think it would affect Jews.
The clip that we showed in the Cold Open where I said, yeah, you ban pornography, you ban usury, blah, I think it's in response to that.
So, this is an individual, the Jolly Brawler, as you'll know him.
Some of you are probably familiar with him on X. By all accounts of people that have known him, hardworking man, faithful husband, father, came to Christ about 10 years ago, attends a Reformed church, is in good standing.
He is a man of good character, of Christian character, that by all accounts, we don't know him personally, tithes, serves.
Believes in the Lord Jesus Christ, confesses the historic Christian faith.
And he said this this is very not post war consensus friendly.
He said he's okay with calling it deportation.
So, this is relating to your view, Joel.
So, hey, we're going to deport.
Banning Judaism and deporting its adherents who refuse to stop blaspheming Christ is only one part of it, but I think it would be a good first step.
And then he says this he says, after this, I will go after secular Jews.
If they do not deport or cease from practicing, so they won't get the heck out of Dodge, the next step would be for the government to use some sort of force, just like with any other law breaking.
This would be the U.S. as we deport people even now back to Mexico, back to El Salvador.
And so that's his view.
And that's what he came out and said.
And for one, people put public pressure on his pastor.
So, you can see publicly people saying, I'm going to call his church.
They've been calling his denomination.
I'm going to call his session.
I'm going to do my best to make sure this man is literally kicked out of his church.
Now, forgive me if I'm reading that.
I don't think all of us would necessarily agree with every part of it.
But I don't know that I saw anything in there that violated Christian ethical norms that a nation could say, well, we think these people have been, they've not had a good influence, and we're going to ask them to leave.
If they don't leave, we're going to ask a little bit more forcefully.
There's nothing in that that I see as inherently, it could be gone about immorally, sure, but nothing inherently in it that strictly, like, I don't think violates anything biblical.
Right.
People are calling his pastor, calling his session, trying to get him removed from it.
And I want you to listen to this post war consensus.
This is the framing, right?
So this is from the reform community on Reddit.
So Reddit, obviously, already a kind of a far left place, but these are obsessive.
It's a far left place, so it makes perfect sense that there would be a reform community.
I was about to say, but this is the ostensible reform community.
Listen to this description.
This is from a user called Ghost Sunday, and they're talking about this incident.
This is from today, this incident.
It's no longer about dealing with that man, referring to Jolly Brawler.
Once you let a Nazi into your church, you attend a Nazi church.
It sounds like if one of them's in, your church is 2,000 people, it's a Nazi church.
And you are, in fact, no longer a church of God, but a church of Satan.
When you uncover a pedophile in your church nursery, the first thing you do isn't to encourage him to repent.
I would hope the same goes for your spiritual children of Christ, because Nazis in your church is an abomination.
There's no both sightings of this.
I'm not overreacting.
They already made their choice, most likely to eternal consequences.
We know what they have done the last time.
We know what they intend to do this time.
It is well documented in history books, in the newspaper today, right now in America in 2025.
And it's in the Bible.
That's what they leave off with.
All of this, it's in the Bible.
They're like, you don't even ask first for repentance, right?
If you had someone terrible that did something terrible with children, he's in the nursery.
If you have a pedophile in the nursery, it's a crime.
Yeah.
And it is a.
Physical immediate threat and danger to all those other children.
To place this into the category of pedophilia and a physical action, a crime, is absolutely insane.
You're talking about somebody who holds a view, not someone who is committing a crime, a criminal action.
He holds a view, and his view has been held by many other Christians throughout Christian history, throughout church history.
And there's nothing that he said in that view, just for the record.
I already told you my view, right?
So he's saying, hey, you know, I.
I appreciate Joel, but I think I'd go a little further.
Okay, so he would go further than me.
You know my view.
That was the whole cold open of this episode, right?
So I don't feel like I have to say it again.
I've said my view.
But his view, as far as I can interpret it from that tweet, is saying religious Jews, so he starts with that religiously practicing Jews who are the implication they're publicly worshiping a false God, idolatrous.
They're committing public idolatry.
They would be asked to leave.
So, first step, ask to leave.
Second step, if they refuse, then yes, there would be some kind of legal penalty, some kind of legal penalty.
And then he says, after that, I would deal with secular Jews.
Again, in a Christian nation, notice he does not say Jews that have converted to Christianity.
He's not talking about that, not at all.
The obvious implication is if any Jew converts to Christianity, Then they're free to remain in a Christian nation.
But he's saying no, religiously practicing Jews who worship another God and are doing so publicly, they would be first asked to leave.
Second, there would be penalties if they don't stop the idolatry or choose to leave.
And then he says, then I would move on to secular Jews.
And I'm assuming that when he says I would move on to secular Jews, can you pull back up the tweet?
I'm assuming that he says, yes, if they do not deport or cease from practicing, the next step would be for the government to use some sort of force, just like with any other law breaking.
Notice he mentions law breaking.
So with secular Jews, I think this is in reference not just to the fact that they're secular.
But the implication is these are secular Jews who are committing some kind of law breaking, right?
In relation to the clip from me, what he's talking about is secular Jews who are practicing exorbitant forms of usury, or secular Jews who are involved in pornography, or secular Jews who, whatever, are breaking the law.
So he's saying, so first I'd start with Judaism, those who are blaspheming.
Secondly, I would go to those who are secular.
So they're not practicing Judaism, they're not publicly worshiping a false god, but they're still secular Jews who are law breaking.
That's To me, that's the obvious implication.
They're doing something that is illegal in this hypothetical America that actually has just laws, that things that should be crimes actually are considered crimes, like exorbitant usury and promulgating pornography.
So, my point is yes, he goes further than I go and words it differently than I would word it.
But where is the heresy?
Where is.
If you're a pastor and you've got this guy in your church and you're getting phone calls and emails and a pressure campaign, okay, maybe you sit down and talk to him and ask for more clarification.
What do you believe?
Where are you at?
Those kinds of things.
If there's something that you find to be concerning, then you say your piece and you counsel him in a direction that you think is advised, a direction that you think is moral and virtuous.
But that's not the response that you're getting from reformed Christians on Reddit.
The response that you're getting is his mere presence makes the entire church a Nazi church and a church of Satan.
Yeah.
And we're going to put his name out there.
We're going to have people blast his businesses.
We're going to publish information from the church.
We're going to pressure his synod and his session.
Insane.
And notice the charity that we would have to people that wouldn't go as far as us.
So I'm sure we have friends.
If I sat down and asked them, they'd be like, ah, I wouldn't go that far.
Okay.
I'm not going to call you a non Christian over that.
We disagree.
We do disagree, but that's literally it.
The Christian faith affords a wide variety of political views.
So we have the charity on the other way.
Hey, you wouldn't go as far.
Hey, I get it.
I think there's some reasons the Bible actually esteems those who hate public idolatry, public blasphemy.
So I would encourage you to think strongly about, hey, the implications and, hey, the virtue in saying the public square is Christ's.
We're not trying to kick them out of the church at all.
But on the other direction, anyone farther than me, Anathematize.
What do you think, Antonio?
Yeah, no, I mean, to Wes's point, that's going to have to be true about the church, right?
Vengeance Is Not A Natural Right00:05:51
You're going to, especially as we emerge from the post war consensus sort of mentality, you're going to be having to deal with people who have more liberal views on topics like, you know, who should be able to vote, for example, or, you know, feminism, so on and so forth.
Like, you're going to have to accommodate these people in the church and counsel them and use scripture to do so.
And so, yeah, I mean, I would say this, it's a little discouraging, honestly, that a post like that from someone who, I mean, I don't know the person, but presumably we agree tactically on all sorts of things, right?
Politically speaking, right?
You diagnose issues on the border, issues on whatever, you pick your issue.
And for them.
Certainly, soteriology, anthropology, you can inform all of these things.
Yeah, for sure.
And so, yeah, it's just discouraging that it's this sort of like infighting and stonewalling, really.
I mean, what do you do with that?
I think for it to die, you just have to become immune to it.
So, James Lindsay, he can say it 100 times a day Never again is now.
Never again is now.
This is just like whatever historical event, you'd literally just have to don't take their framing, stand up and keep doing what you're doing.
Stay true to scripture.
But the way it dies is by people realizing this literally holds no power anymore.
I threatened to call you this.
I called you that name.
I called this.
Yeah, and nobody cared.
Do you feel in charge?
Yeah, do you feel in charge right now?
Do you feel in charge?
But I will say the post war consensus will have to end.
It has to.
It just, but what you're saying during the West, post war consensus, pick one.
Right.
Yeah, you can't do both.
But what you're saying in terms of you just have to ignore them is absolutely true.
However, practically, what that means is, you know, because in order to be able to ignore them, You have to be insulated.
It's not enough for one man to ignore them.
You have to have a community that also agrees.
And that doesn't mean agrees with your position, but agrees in terms of the strategy, the tactic of we do not excommunicate over World War II revisionist views.
Yeah.
We don't do that.
I'm sorry.
If somebody thinks it's six million, there are people in my church who believe six million Jews died and were cremated in ovens, and they are members in good standing.
And there are some, it's more of a minority report.
It's actually less people.
But there are some who say, ah, that 6 million seems a little high.
So there are some who say, ah, maybe 1 to 2 million.
And there are maybe a handful, three or four individuals who are like, ah, I think more like 278,000.
And we take the Lord's Supper together.
Like, how in the world, how in the world is that a mark of eternal salvation?
It's just not.
It's not.
Now, like if I had somebody in the church who was saying, I want to go shoot up a synagogue, then that person would be harshly rebuked and need to repent.
And if they don't repent, they'd be excommunicated because they're talking about committing a crime, a sin and a crime and a serious sin of murder.
We are not vigilantes.
We believe that God has ordained certain spheres of authority.
So, just like we were saying, right, we're being consistent on both sides of the equation.
So, no, voting is not a natural right.
And also, vengeance is not a natural right.
The Bible speaks to that.
That is biblical.
The Bible actually says who can take vengeance, right?
The one who bears the sword, the state, the civil magistrate, is God's deacon, diaconate.
He's God's servant who has been given the sword.
And beyond that, there are some Old Testament texts that talk about the avenger of blood.
Being the closest male member of kin to someone who was killed.
And that if that person has not yet fleeed and sought refuge in a city of refuge, and there were six of them that were designated strategically, geographically in Israel, to where each one, no matter where you were, it would be a day's travel.
You could run in one day and make it to a city of refuge.
So that if someone committed not first degree murder, but manslaughter, the closest of kin to the victim who died could actually take.
Vengeance into his own hands if that person was wandering around freely outside of a city of refuge.
That's not in accordance with our laws today.
So we would not advise that.
But my point is, even in Old Testament times, for Old Covenant Israel, even outside of the civil magistrate, it was still a very narrow and very specific individual that had that right, a right to vengeance.
So my point is, not everybody has a right to vote.
Likewise, not everybody has a right to take vengeance.
But you have to talk about real sin.
It has to be a real sin.
So if somebody is saying, I want to commit the sin of going and physically assaulting someone, of physically murdering someone, or physically stealing from someone, then yes, that is a disciplinary offense.
And apart from repentance, that person would be banned from the table of the Lord and excommunicated from the church.
And the keys of the kingdom would have to be used.
Social Exclusion As A Non Virtue00:06:55
But if somebody is saying, You know what?
I think Weimar Germany had a lot of good policies.
And I don't think that the number six million is accurate.
And I think that these things, some of these things, were embellished.
And I think that today multiculturalism is a plague on the West.
And I think that we should be more selective with who comes to our country.
And I think that we should have mass deportations for those who.
Do not belong here.
And I also think that X, Y, and Z, blah, blah, blah, we're not in sin categories anymore.
You can disagree.
You say, I think this other policy would be better.
I think that this policy would be better.
Fine.
But to elevate that to heresy is insane.
And part of what it does is it retroactively anathematizes all of our Christian forefathers, like a wide swath.
Of our Christian forefathers.
You're essentially saying that these men either were not Christian or they were Christian, but with massive, massive sin.
And I just don't think that this generation of Christians, including myself, is in the position to cast judgment on greater sires when we are objectively their lesser sons.
That's what I heard growing up.
I'm sure you heard the same thing.
It was like, yeah, you know, Jonathan Edwards was great, but he had this really big blind spot, you know, when it came to slavery or, you know, Jonathan Edwards, I'm content to just say, you know what, Jonathan Edwards was a better man than me, period, and just stop.
That doesn't mean he was an infallible man, but he's a better man than me.
And the generation of Christians that were 90% Christian, And that did not murder millions of babies, and that did not trans children, and did not have drag queen story hour, and did not have exorbitant forms of usury, and did not have pornography plastered everywhere.
Maybe they're just better than us.
Maybe we're not qualified to place ourselves in the seat of judgment.
It's just, it really is an arrogant thing to think you know what?
I'm going to re litigate history from hindsight, and I'm going to do it with the people who were.
Like, unapologetically, explicitly Christian.
And I'm going to do it from the standpoint of, like, I'm going to stand on this mountain of 70 million baby skulls and retroactively judge George Whitefield.
That is an incredibly arrogant position.
I don't know.
I was going to say, God esteems the humble, those who are humble enough to say, yeah, maybe before they got it better, maybe they were wiser.
Not a faux humility, but the Proverbs are full.
Of the humble man.
It's the fool who's right in his own eyes.
It's the fool who takes policies of 60 years ago and adds those as gospel works.
But it's the humble who God establishes and says, No, he's to be praised because look at the humility and the deference that he has, especially in respect to reverence for fathers.
And for the record, yes, all these guys, whether it be Edwards or Whitfield or Dabney, all these great Christian men, Stonewall Jackson, they all, Had harsh words for dealing with the transatlantic slave trade.
The thing that they simply disagreed on was the institution of slavery altogether.
So these were not men saying, you know what, yeah, we should keep buying and selling people.
We brought over a million, we can make it two million next year.
No.
They were not saying that.
Dabney, who everybody colors as a racist, Had harsh words against the transatlantic slave trade and believed that the trade itself should be immediately abolished.
He believed that it was a breach of God's law, that it was sinful.
And he and others also recognized that it was largely financed by Jews.
And they wanted to see it abolished.
But the idea of okay, what do I do with someone who's third generation now in America?
They don't, they only speak English.
They've grown up in the church.
They've been catechized.
They take the Lord's Supper right alongside their master and his family.
And I don't even know where they come from.
And we're going to randomly drop this person off, likely a thousand miles away from where their ancestry actually is.
They don't speak the language, like they're going to be slaughtered.
They're going to die alone in the jungle.
They're going to get captured and sold back into slavery again.
Yeah.
Yeah, these were real issues that they were trying to think through.
And I think that they probably thought through these issues better than most of us.
Any other thoughts on that?
I know we have one more commercial break.
Well, I was just going to say quickly as I think about the post war consensus, the one sort of quote unquote virtue, it's actually a non virtue that bubbles up out of all of those fundamental assumptions that they carry, that liberalism carries, is this idea that social exclusion is evil.
It's almost like kind of their last offense is to say, well, you want to exclude someone.
You're bullying.
It's a bully tactic.
It's evil.
You don't see them as equal in the eyes of God.
And I think I'll speak specifically to the Christian who carries that assumption.
They fail to see that distinction between the spiritual and the social or the natural, right?
And so, socially, we exclude people all the time.
There are people I don't let into my home.
There are Christians that I expect to see in glory that I would just simply say, hey, keep doing your thing, and I'll keep doing my thing over here.
And we're not going to be best friends.
And so, there's all sorts of social exclusions that we make.
The Irony Of Spiritual Bullying00:03:29
And I think people just simply fail to see that.
And then, of course, the terrible irony, really sad irony, is that the moment you don't believe that value, you're excluded socially and otherwise, apparently.
Yeah.
All right.
Let's go to our last commercial break and we'll be back.
We'll try to take some of your questions.
We've had some super chats.
So, we're going to prioritize the super chats and then we'll try to take some questions and we will be done.
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All right, let's go ahead and pull up the super chats.
We'll dive right into it.
Common Sense Merit Based Voting00:07:52
Here they come.
All right, first one, Daniel Bartos.
He gave us 20 bucks.
Thanks, Daniel.
We appreciate it.
He said, Sorry that you have to spend so much time explaining a basic use of logic and reasoning.
The binary thinking that we see today is an epidemic.
Also, when are you going to release your Four Pillars merchandise?
He wants a Four Pillars merchandise.
That's a need right there.
Yeah, I don't know.
It's not a bad idea.
Maybe sure to spark a conversation at your local grocery store.
Yeah, it would.
It was, uh, it would provide a lot of opportunities to share the gospel.
Um, okay, Antonio, you want to do the next one?
Yeah, Ked's dead 86.79 cent five dollars.
Thank you.
Uh, says Jews would just lie about citizenship and Israel would back their lies.
I think, assuming, uh, referring specifically to dual citizenship.
Um, what do you think?
I could definitely say it's been a problem in Christendom where Christians said, Here, you must be this high to ride the ride to stay a citizen, you must do these things, and Jews have lied in the past.
Historically, so what do you do if Jews just lie about their ethnicity?
Like, forget citizenship.
There is always that game that occurs of, like, oh, well, you know, if you set up some standard, Democrats will just try to evade the standard, right?
Like, there's a little bit of political goodwill that you need for any kind of system to function.
Because to me, it's like, oh, well, you know, they'll keep their dual citizenship in line.
It's like, okay, well, so, okay, so then you say, like, I assume what he's implying is that, like, just no Jews, period.
Okay, well, then.
All right, forget citizenship.
How do you know somebody is, you know, biologically a Jew?
And, you know, and so then it's like, well, there needs to be a physical marker.
Maybe if we put, like, you know, some kind of, you know, physical sign and sewed like a patch onto their, you know, it's like the government has to have a multi billion dollar contract with 23andMe, you're going to go down every street.
Like, what are you going to do?
So, what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to have common sense, merit based, biblical, Ban usury, ban pornography, ban dual citizenship as far as you can, you know, see, you know, legitimately who has it.
If somebody lies, they lie, you know, but to the best of your ability, ban these things.
Like, well, what do you do if people just go underground with pornography?
Like, okay, people will always, like, that's like.
That's a good thing.
It's like they went underground.
That is a good thing.
You can't access it online?
Yeah.
Yes.
To me, it's like saying, like, well, we shouldn't ban murder because what if people murder animals?
In the middle of the night secretly.
Yes, that's right.
That's a good point.
That's correct.
Yeah, law is pragmatic in that way.
Law, and that's why it's helpful.
I think, particularly when we talk about things like citizenship and civic duties, so on and so forth, is getting to the principle.
Like, what am I really trying to get at when I say property, mail, landowner?
There's a principle behind those things.
And I'm using those as qualifications to get to those principles.
And so, and in this case, we're saying, why no dual citizenship?
That's what we're aiming for.
And there are probably several ways to solve for that.
But the major reason why is that those who are, you know, you are a lesser civil magistrate if you are a voting citizen.
In a republic, the voting class is the civil magistrate.
And so we're saying that, like, if you're going to be a voting citizen, then you are a civil magistrate who is dictating the direction and the future of the country.
And so if you're going to have that kind of power to dictate the future of the country, You need to have your allegiance solely vested in that country that you're dictating.
Yeah.
And not have the potential incentive of dictating policies here to benefit people over there.
Now, try to disagree with that.
Right.
It's impossible to disagree with that.
Yeah, exactly.
Because it is a common sense, merit based policy.
And that's why I hold the position that I'm holding is because I would love to dress up like Peter Pan, like all the guys to my right, God bless them, but it's not Halloween.
I mean, it'd be great to build some cardboard swords and go through.
That's fine.
But part of the reason I hold the position that I do is I know it seems infeasible today, but I actually believe in my lifetime that what I'm proposing could happen.
I really do.
I actually think because I think there's enough people who say, yeah, you know what?
Pornography really should be banned.
Or like you talk about usury.
Dude, you're talking about an entire young adult generation that is going to get your back on that policy.
There's going to be like, yes.
We can't live.
We can't own homes.
So, like the things that I'm putting forward are things that I really do believe are achievable.
Even repealing the 19th Amendment, people laugh.
I'm telling you, I was saying this three years ago and it was like it was just, it would blow up into the stratosphere.
Like, I can't believe all of that.
And now, you know how many people gave me grief who are now like, well, that's reasonable, but I don't like that Joel says this other thing.
Story of my life.
My life has been, I hate you and I want to destroy you.
And then two years later, oh, of course I agree with that.
Everybody agrees with that.
I hate you and want to destroy you for this other thing.
Over and over.
I wish that eventually, that's part of the reason why I'm careful.
It doesn't mean that I don't publicly voice my disagreement, but I'm careful about not anathematizing people to my right.
You know one of the reasons why I try to be careful about that?
Because I don't want to be that guy who has made my own life so challenging and so difficult at times.
Who is, you're terrible, I can't believe you, blah, And then two years later, you come around, you're holding the exact same position, you act as though it's common knowledge, and you never go back and set the record straight.
You never go back and apologize.
You never go back and give credit where credit is due.
You never go back to that person that you tried to ruin their life on social media and blew them up.
Where are those guys?
I would love to see a line beginning to form to come and apologize.
Where are the apologies over COVID?
Yeah, where are they?
Where are the apologies over BLM?
Where are the apologies over St. George Floyd?
Where are the apologies?
Like, where's the apologies over the 19th Amendment?
The number of people, you can see it.
You can see it in real time on social media.
Three years ago, I say it, there's like three people agreeing with me and hundreds of thousands trying to ruin my life.
And now it's, yes, it is still a minority, but it's tens of thousands of people saying, oh, this is reasonable.
This makes sense.
I understand that.
Yeah, oh, household voting, you know, like, How could you call that a sin?
Maybe you disagree, but it's not sinful.
Do you know how fast things have changed in two or three years?
It is astronomical.
It's astronomical.
But my point is that with all these policies that I'm presenting and suggesting, I actually believe first that they're biblical.
Secondly, I believe they're feasible.
I actually do.
I actually think that it is possible that in our lifetime, universal suffrage. Is removed.
I think it's possible in our lifetime that usury, exorbitant forms of usury, are banned.
I think it's possible that pornography is banned.
I think it's possible that abortion is abolished, but I already covered that by repealing the 19th Amendment.
So there's a lot of, you get rid of that one and boom, boom, boom, boom.
Universal Suffrage In Our Lifetime00:15:01
They're like, what happened?
Why is America such an incredible place to live?
You know, my life is so much better.
I pay less in taxes.
I can afford a home.
Like, what happened?
Women don't vote anymore.
That's what happened.
I mean, you just look at the statistics.
There would not be one Democrat president in the United States for the last half of a century, 50 years, if women couldn't vote.
I mean, it is phenomenal.
So, anyways, all that back to the comment of, you know, what if they lied about citizenship?
Okay, all right.
So then you get rid of all the Jews.
What if they lie about being a Jew?
You know, like, well, you know, like, what if people, what if somebody murdered somebody and lied about it?
That's just, that's always something that you have to deal with.
Always.
Okay, next.
All right.
Nick Bonner, great brother.
Brother Joel, 20 Dow.
$27.99.
Oh, $27.
That was like California, Canada.
Same thing.
Canada.
Canada.
Brother Joel, preaching the truth and love today.
W. Right response.
Thanks, Nick.
Really appreciate it.
Thanks, Nick.
$100.
Johnny Randolph, 4111.
Keep up the good fight.
Thanks so much, Johnny.
Thanks, Johnny.
Really appreciate it.
Appreciate it.
Joel, go ahead.
Okay.
This is Daniel Bartos again.
$20 from Daniel.
He said, never quit.
I will never quit.
If you help me, Employ my team.
That's my promise.
I will never quit, but I will have a lot of people who don't quit, but who are forcefully laid off if we can't keep the lights on.
All right, Antonio.
Yeah, Daniel Bartos says again, may the spirit of Christ strengthen you.
Thanks, Daniel.
Huddle Hippo Moms sent $9.99 just with $19.99.
No, $9.99 there.
Oh, I'm sorry.
You're right.
But just the tag at Huddle Hippo Moms.
I don't know if there was a question, Nathan.
Attached, maybe that came before.
And then they just sent the super chat.
Anyway, we can look real quick.
Just one second, guys.
We're looking because if they did attach a question, we want to honor that since they gave the super chat.
We appreciate it.
Hutto Hippo Moms.
Just for anybody who's like, what is that?
Hutto Hippo.
Hippo is the mascot of the town of Hutto, which is in central Texas where we are.
Yeah.
So, all right.
Cool.
All right.
We can keep going.
Thank you.
With no question.
Go to favorites.
I think these are just super chats.
Perfect.
Jose Vega, 1999, to become bulletproof.
God bless you, Joel.
God bless you.
Thank you, Jose.
Appreciate that.
Jonathan Storms, $20.
Thanks, Jonathan.
Keep fighting, fellow kings.
America will be Christian.
We'll have our heritage again.
Thank you for your faithful leadership.
By God, we'll have our home again.
By God, we'll have our home again.
All right.
Thank you, Jonathan.
Next one is Logan Howlett, 3024.
He gave us $10.
He said, Brothers, I'm reformed, post mill, Calvinist.
My wife and I agree that women shouldn't vote.
I support Israel.
Because Islam is the giant enemy and they want to kill Jews and us.
Do you see me as an ally?
It depends.
So I see you as a brother in Christ.
If you're Reformed and post mill and Calvinist, then that assumes Christian.
So, in terms of brotherhood, do you believe that Jesus is the eternally begotten Son of God who was enfleshed in the incarnation?
Took on flesh, dwelt among us, lived a sinless life, died a substitutionary death on the cross for our sin under the wrath of God, was bodily raised from the dead on the third day, revealed himself to 500 witnesses, and ascended to the right hand of God the Father, and that he promises to return to judge both the living and the dead?
If so, and I'm assuming the answer to that is yes, then you are a brother in Christ.
In terms of being an ally, I think it's just helpful, clarity of language is helpful.
There are categories.
So, an ally in doing the work of an evangelist and sharing the gospel about Jesus and eternal salvation with others.
If you're a Christian, like everything that I just covered, then yes.
Do I see you as a cultural ally on many fronts?
Probably.
You probably want to see the end of abortion.
You want to see the end of women voting, no fault divorce.
Absolutely.
As a political ally, no.
No, I don't think you're a political ally.
That's my position.
You guys are free to disagree with me.
But when you say support Israel, I guess.
You'd have to clarify that, right?
At best, I'd have to.
Support Israel generally speaking or support Israel in something specific?
Because I can imagine a scenario where you support Israel on a specific geopolitical topic or some tension where it's like, this makes sense.
This truly is America first, right?
So you have to consider that.
If you're saying I support Israel as a nation state insofar as.
I believe, apart from our tax dollars and us sending them trillions and trillions of dollars over the past few decades, apart from America propping Israel up independently in and of themselves, I believe.
As a cudgel against Islam, that's what they specifically say.
Right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Islam's there.
But they have a right to exist, sure.
But if it's like, I support Israel in genociding Palestinians in Gaza, no.
I support Israel in.
Going into other nations and forcing regime change.
No.
I support Israel and their influence in American politics and espionage and Israeli intelligence and having a stranglehold through blackmail with American politicians to force America to do things that are not actually in our best interest.
No, absolutely not.
So, yeah, you're right, Antonio.
That would have to be qualified.
I support Israel.
Okay, how?
How do you support Israel?
But, anyways, a long way of saying there's a difference between brother and ally.
And then, with ally, there's different categories, right?
There's ally culturally, ally politically, ally with this, ally with that.
And depending how you answer that question of in what way do you support Israel, then the answer could be yes and could be no.
For myself personally, I do not support Israel.
I think, you know, I'm not saying that we should go to war with Israel, but I absolutely believe that we should cut all ties with Israel and that they should stand on their own two feet.
And if they do something that's egregious, then I actually do think that we should be involved, not with Israel, but against them.
I think that we should be involved and say, I'm sorry, you cannot, you have to stop killing babies in Gaza.
You can't do that.
So, yeah, so I do not support Israel.
And it depends on how you answer that question, what you mean.
Okay.
Next one, Antonia.
Yep.
Silhouette F9X sent $20.
Thanks for that.
And says, I'm a Catholic.
I found your content a few weeks ago and have been enjoying your content.
I hope Catholics and Protestants can find more unity in this culture war.
I know it's been said, but I hope to see a collab with NJF.
Nicholas J. Fuentes.
Yep.
I appreciate that.
And that honestly flows nicely off of the last question.
Again, talking about being an ally.
So he used the word unity, but notice he specifies unity in this culture war.
Yeah.
So, like, part of my critiques with Billy Graham and some of his later crusades, he had Catholic priests.
At the altar, number one, I don't really like altar calls.
I think it's too emotionally driven.
But he had altar calls, so he'd do a call for salvation, for people to come forward and become Christians.
And he had Catholic priests at the altar to lead people in a prayer of faith.
And I would say, well, but wait, on that front, we're talking about how does God save?
What is the gospel and how does God save?
So, no, I'm not going to partner on something like that.
But again, to be fair to the question, Protestants, I hope that Catholics and Protestants can find more unity in this culture war.
Catholics have done a world of good, arguably more than Protestants, in fighting for the sanctity of life for the unborn, for instance.
Catholics have done a ton of good on multiple cultural issues.
And so the way I see it is, again, as co belligerents, as allies, which is different than this person would be an elder in my church, or even the level of this person would be a member in my church.
For membership in my church, it'd be like, okay, so you were baptized in the Catholic Church, you've spent your entire life being a Catholic.
Let's talk about soteriology.
Let's talk about that.
Doctrine of God, theology proper, we'd be good.
Catholics have better, in my opinion, better theology proper than most Protestants.
But we would have to talk about soteriology, and that would be a criteria for whether or not I could offer not just leadership, but membership in my church.
So, Nick Fuentes, for instance, Nick Fuentes is not going to be an elder at Covenant Bible Church, and Nick Fuentes would not be a member at Covenant Bible Church, nor would he want to.
He's a devoted Catholic.
But insofar on cultural issues and political issues, all truth is God's truth.
Right?
Like, if we discovered old ancient Babylonian libraries, I don't think we should burn all the books.
I think we should plunder them.
And whatever is true, we should take and instill.
And whatever is false, we should abandon and reject.
And when it comes to culture and politics, that's the way I see it that you can have political co belligerence, you can have cultural co belligerence.
And I echo your sentiment.
I also hope to see Catholics and Protestants find more unity in the culture war.
I think that that's stated plainly and clearly.
And I think I can say that and affirm that, give a hearty amen while maintaining all of my Protestant bona fides.
And I think the Protestants who recoil at that, I think you've got to grow up.
You've got to see what time it is.
We're not saying that this local Catholic church and this Protestant church should merge, that their churches should merge.
We're not saying that.
But there's a bunch of Catholics.
Outside of an abortion clinic, trying to see it shut down.
Yeah, I think you can partner with him.
So, all right, Wes, you want to do it?
You guys are going to have to help me on this pronunciation.
Nathan DeBrouille?
Dubrouillet.
I don't know.
It's too.
The L's, the I's, and the E's.
It sounds French.
At this distance, they're blurring together.
Well, you know what?
It sounds French.
And when it comes to the French, I appreciate a little distance.
You know what I mean?
All right.
Oh, there we go.
I still can't say it.
Nathan.
Dubrouillet.
There we go.
Nathan sent a $99 super chat.
Thanks so much, Nathan.
Thanks, Nathan.
That's very kind, very generous.
Put a good question in here.
Love the show.
Have you seen Fuentes' show exposing.
JD Vans.
He tied together a lot of the same stuff y'all have talked about before.
God bless.
God bless.
We did an episode, this would have been about two months ago, on JD Vans, Peter Thiel, Palantir.
I think we all hold a little bit more hope from him.
That's what I would say.
That's the only difference.
We've seen his material.
Yes, we've seen his material.
We've seen his material.
And we think, and just for the record, I think that those are the things where Nick excels.
People are like, why would you say something positive about Nick Funtas?
I'm not going to listen to Nick to see, like, okay, so which curse words should I use from the pulpit?
Um, that's like, of course, I disagree on that.
Everybody knows that.
Nick knows that.
Um, I've talked to him.
Like, if we do a collaboration, um, uh, you can't curse on the show.
And you know what Nick's response was?
He said, Of course, I want to, I know you're a pastor, I know it's not my show.
Of course, I would honor that.
So, we wouldn't even have to, oh, we're gonna have to, you know, bleep out all this stuff and edit.
No, we wouldn't have to do that because uh, Nick would be respectful and wouldn't curse.
So, yeah, there's plenty of things that we disagree on.
He's a Catholic, I'm a Protestant, he curses, you know, on the show, and I'm not gonna do that.
But politically, guys, like, I don't know what to tell you.
Politically, he's a savant.
He is.
He called a lot of these things very early on.
I'm not saying he's the only one.
I'm not saying he's the only one.
There have been some others, but he has been one of the loudest and earliest voices in our generation.
Yes, there was Pat Buchanan.
God bless Pat Buchanan.
So I'm not saying that nobody is, you know, there's been revolutions revolting against the zeitgeist, you know, Henry Ford.
For goodness sake, you know, like there's been plenty of guys who have come in, whether it be in the 1910s or the 1930s, and I'm talking about in America.
Yeah, there are plenty of guys who have sounded the alarm.
So I'm not saying that he's the first, but he has been one of the most consistent and early and loud.
And here's the other thing well informed.
That's the big thing.
Find me another guy who's as autistic as Nick Fuentes and has spent a decade.
Just reading, reading, scouring every corner of the internet.
I mean, the guy knows what he's talking about.
So I would say the big difference between us and Nick as it pertains to JD Vance, we did an episode saying that basically to sum it up, we said there are three, you think of affections, ties, allegiances, there are three big affections that are vying for JD Vance's heart.
One is his quintessential American childhood.
Appalachia.
I mean, Heartland America.
Scott Irish stock.
Scott Irish stock, raised by his grandmother.
JD Vance And His Allegiances00:07:34
Mom is kind of like a statistic of flyover America, forgotten, neglected.
That's powerful.
That's his childhood.
I mean, he has kind of like the Superman art, you know, like born in Kansas, you know, raised up around cattle and farmers, you know, corn fed, you know, like, I mean, quintessential American.
Ancestry and childhood story.
And that's great.
But that's not all.
And that got a lot of playtime funded by guys like Peter Thiel with his book that Netflix made a movie.
What was it called?
Hillbilly Elegy.
Hillbilly Elegy.
So the point is not to say that, oh, it's not true.
The fact that it became a book and a bestseller and all that kind of stuff doesn't mean that that's not still in his heart.
That is who he is, it is who he is, and it's still there somewhere.
It's still there.
And so.
Our only difference with Nick is we're just saying that part's still there.
The other two parts, though, you have to recognize in terms of vying for his affections.
He is married to an Indian woman who was a Hindu.
And from what I've seen, may have recently converted to Catholicism.
But if so, it's very recent.
And she is of Indian origin.
Her parents live in India, I'm pretty sure.
His first son is named Vivek.
Yeah, his first son is named Vivek.
You can see the pictures of his kids clothed in Indian Hindu garb.
And if she is a convert, it's very recent.
So we're just trying to be honest.
We're not trying to pick on JD Vance.
But if you think that his wife, right?
So think of it like this I'll give you a story in the positive.
Remember, King, it's not King Nebuchadnezzar, King Xerxes, I believe, and Esther, the queen.
Well, that king was moved to enact policy.
That benefited one particular group of people because his wife told him to, and those people were her people, right?
That's how politics works, guys, right?
You can repeal a woman's vote, but you will never repeal her voice, nor should you, for that matter.
I don't want to see women in the public square leading the discourse, but I believe it's God's design that one woman with her husband would be one of his chief counselors.
My wife is always in a respectful way, not domineering over me.
But in a respectful way, as a godly woman, my wife is constantly giving me counsel because I ask for it.
I ask for it.
And I want to hear what she has to say.
And what my wife says, it's like, well, Joel, you know, like he stripped her of all her dignity, all her power.
In the life of Joel Webbin, the most powerful person on the planet is Megan Webbin, my wife.
She has more power than my elders, not formally.
My elders have formal power in the ecclesiastical sense in our church.
But in terms of informally, she has more power than all my elders can bind, my deacons can bind, the board of right response can bind, my closest friends can bind, because she has the heart of her husband.
The Proverbs even say of a godly woman, the heart of her husband trusts her.
And so I'm just thinking about that.
Think about Esther and how she influenced her husband, the king.
Think of my wife.
Now think of JD Vance.
It is not ideal.
I'm sure she's a wonderful woman.
None of this is trying to beat up on it, but it is not ideal for a man who is one heartbeat away from the presidency of the United States for his closest confidant to be someone who her entire extended family lives in another nation and until very recently has practiced a false religion, an adherent to a false religion, worshiping a foreign false god and from a foreign people.
So, one, His childhood and upbringing, ancestry, Appalachia.
That's good.
But two others his wife.
And then the last one is the techno right, the technocracy of your Alex Karp, CEO of Palantir, your Peter Thiels and his institute, and the backing that JD Vance has had from Peter Thiel for years and years now.
It's not just like, oh, you know, what a magical story.
I think he really does have a magical story.
But here's the deal let's just be honest.
There are thousands of people from Appalachia who probably have magical stories of the quintessential Americana and overcoming, you know.
Insurmountable odds, and it's a true American story.
But why is his story known by everyone?
Why was his story made into a book and a movie?
How did his story become a bestseller?
How did he become a bigwig as a VC with zero experience among venture capitalists?
And how did he get the largest donation from Peter Thiel for any other state?
In the history of U.S. Senate races.
Yeah, like.
And so you just have to acknowledge that.
And then you have to look at Peter Thiel and say, oh, but he's based, he's on the right.
Peter Thiel wants to achieve transhumanism.
Peter Thiel is a sodomite, he has gay sex with men.
Alex Karp, who is the CEO of Palantir, which Peter Thiel is heavily involved in, is a Jew and has said publicly, he said, Alex Karp, CEO of Palantir, which is very much in the pocket of JD Vance and the Trump administration, has said publicly, and I quote, My greatest fear is Christian nationalists taking power, not the left, right?
This is the base right wing, Alex Carp.
Yeah, right.
My greatest fear is not the left, but Christian nationalists taking power and throwing me out of a window.
And that guy has incredible influence with JD Vance.
So, JD Vance, it's his childhood and ancestry.
That's good.
It's his wife.
I'm sure she's a wonderful woman, but that is not good.
That's not good.
India, I don't want India to have a pull, a strong familial tie.
To my president here in America.
That's a perfectly reasonable position.
And then lastly, Peter Thiel and Alex Karp and the right techn lords, all the PayPal mafia, David Sachs and Elon Musk.
And so my point is we agree with Nick's position pretty much entirely.
We just haven't come to his conclusion.
We see his conclusion as being entirely plausible.
He may be right, he tends to be right.
But we would simply, the only thing that we would distinguish ourselves in that regard from Nick is we would say, There are three different ties, not just one.
Nick emphasizes Peter Thiel and Palantir.
We say there are three.
Two of them are concerning.
Nick is concerned about one, and rightfully so.
We're concerned about two, but we're hopeful with that third that his childhood would win out.
And JD Vance has our prayers.
We are praying for him.
Okay, we got to finish up.
I hear my family, they're home.
This is Wes.
You want to take this one?
Or Antonio, can you take this one?
Yeah, Boa.
Cannington sent $50.
Three Ties Beyond Peter Thiel00:00:20
Thanks, Bo.
Thanks, Bo.
Says, You gentlemen do excellent work with these cultural and biblical conversations.
I've learned a lot from your experience, knowledge, and willingness to tell the truth.
Keep it up and much appreciated.
Thank you, Bo.
We appreciate it.
All right.
Well, that's it for the show for today.
We hope that you've been blessed by it.
And Lord willing, we will see you on Friday at 3 p.m. Central Time.