Eric Arville and Matt Walsh examine the "Return to the Land" community in Arkansas, a 160-acre project founded in October 2023 to preserve European heritage against perceived demographic replacement. They argue that strict admission criteria and the exclusion of Islam and homosexuality align with First Amendment freedoms, citing NAACP v. Alabama while noting the white population's decline from 89% to 59%. The discussion further explores historical Christian nationalism, the Atlantic slave trade's financing by Jewish merchants, and biblical justifications for self-segregation amidst rising crime rates among specific demographics. Ultimately, the episode contends that intentional cultural preservation is a moral imperative against systemic erasure, advocating for a return to traditional values despite accusations of racism. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
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Why We Ask for Five Star Reviews00:07:32
Leave us a five star review on your favorite podcast platform.
I get it.
It's annoying.
Everybody asks, but I'm going to tell you why.
When you give us a positive review, what that does is it triggers the algorithm so that our podcast shows up on more people's news feeds.
You and I both know that this ministry is willing to talk about things that most ministries aren't.
We need this content for the glory of God to reach more people's ears.
So there's a new neighborhood that's popping up.
In Arkansas, called Return to the Land.
And what we're doing in this episode today is we have invited the guy who is leading this project.
His name is Eric Arville.
Now, this neighborhood is a little bit unique in the sense that it has clear guidelines for who is allowed to live there and who is not.
And this is causing a bit of a stir, a controversy, if you will.
Is it discrimination?
Is it racist?
Is it wicked?
Or is this simply a freedom of association?
For myself personally, as I think about these matters, I do, at least at bare minimum, find it a bit ironic that on the one hand, you would have people who would say, you're terrible, you're wicked, you're racist, and also, please let me live next to you.
That's one thing that I struggle to reconcile.
Why is it such a big deal if people are terrible that everyone has to be able to live right next to the terrible people?
This is the conversation we're going to be having with the founder of this neighborhood, again, Eric Arville.
The name of the project is Return to the Land.
Tune in now.
All right, we are back.
It is a Monday afternoon, 3 p.m. Central Time.
As I said, we have a special guest.
Eric, thanks for coming on the show.
Would you just introduce yourself to our listeners?
Sure.
Yeah, glad for the invitation, the opportunity to speak with you guys.
I said before we went live, I love your studio.
It's what I was going for, but you did it much better.
I'm a little jealous.
One day I'll get there.
No, my name's Eric Orwal.
So Arval is my screen name.
That's the Norwegian version of my last name.
Yeah, just a.
Get rid of the confusion.
But no, we got started about two years ago with the community here.
We purchased the property in October of 2023 with a few families, less than a dozen initial members that pooled resources and made it happen.
And it was a long time coming.
I've been wanting to do a community like this for over 10 years.
I've been kind of promoting the idea in right wing circles, primarily online.
And recently, I think people have just had.
Enough of the double standards.
They're tired of being demonized.
And it's kind of normalized where even people like Tucker Carlson will talk about, you know, the great replacement theory or the idea that whites are becoming minorities in all these countries.
A lot of people really are concerned about it, you know.
And I don't just think about what I'm going to experience in my own lifetime or what my kids are going to experience.
I think, what is this country going to look like for my grandkids and my great grandkids when whites are projected to be a small percentage of the population, you know?
Right now, whites are a small percentage of the population in South Africa, and they are severely mistreated, both by the law and in terms of violent crime.
So, in order to avoid that fate, the only option that I really saw was building intentional communities for our own people where our kind of biological nature as a distinct people is preserved, and then our culture, traditions, and way of life.
I think everyone deserves that dignity.
I think other groups in the U.S. Are doing the same thing also.
There are Jewish communities, black communities, you name it.
It's just when whites do it, all of a sudden it's a huge issue.
So it's a foo boo of sorts, right?
For you, by you, except instead of shoes, it's houses.
The problem is that white people are doing it.
Is that a fair way to sum it up?
That seems to be the objection.
Yeah, I really don't understand it.
And I think it's a bad line for them to take.
I think they, as all the big media outlets that pick this up, Had to take it to cash in on the sensationalism.
And there are many people who have been indoctrinated to think that, you know, voluntary segregation is the same as the forced regime of legal segregation we had before, you know, the 1950s.
And these are very different things, morally speaking.
One is free association, people doing their own thing.
The other is depriving people of real opportunity and the ability to advance in life.
I don't want to take away the ability of Black people.
To build their own communities, neighborhoods, businesses.
I don't want to deprive them of the ability to patronize businesses that are open to the public.
It's not like we're keeping those opportunities away from other groups.
We just want to do our own thing.
That's it.
Yep.
I think about it, I've used this analogy or illustration a few times.
So I have five children, and I've always thought, in terms of the way that our civil magistrate, Is leading and legislating when it comes to the populace and different segments of our citizens.
It would be the equivalent of me as a father with my five children saying that, you know, four of my children will be trained, equipped, loved, encouraged, and when necessary, disciplined when it comes to bad behavior.
But one of my five children will be able to exercise bad behavior with impunity.
And it seems as though that's what we've had going on for a little while now.
But then to further complicate the situation, To tell the rest of my four children, you know, so and so, your brother or your sister is not going to be disciplined when they misbehave.
You will, most assuredly, but they will not.
And they will be allowed to hit you and take your toys and shout at you and bite you.
And all that, you know, my kids are pretty small.
So the kinds of things that an unruly toddler might do, all of that will be on the table.
But also, not only will I not step in and mediate and discipline.
But also, you're not allowed to separate.
You have to play with them.
You have to be with them.
Then it, I mean, I'm just setting the recipe for my four children to not only resent me as their father, but also to grow, not lessen, but grow in a real resentment and bitterness and hatred toward their one sibling who I've set the stage for that one sibling to execute.
Abuse towards the other four.
Preserving European Traditions and Values00:06:02
And it doesn't make any sense at all.
I mean, we really do, it seems like we have a two tier system in our nation currently when it comes to the laws of our land.
They apply to some, but do not apply to others.
We've seen this when it comes to admission in universities and the standards academically.
We've seen this politically.
We've seen this in terms of legally with crime and all these kinds of things.
And at a certain point, People are going to take it into their own hands, and the reaction or the response to say, We're going to separate and work hard and do our own thing, given historically the other alternatives, that is a pretty humane, merciful, and kind response.
I mean, the other response is that, you know, people retaliate in kind, and I don't see you doing that.
Honorable.
Are they, I want to ask, are the individuals who are partnering with you in this project mostly religious?
If so, are they mostly Christian?
What is kind of the religious makeup of this group?
Yeah, most of us are Christians.
We want this to be a very big tent.
The goal of Return to the Land is to facilitate communities for people of European heritage all across the country.
And that includes people who celebrate.
Pagan European traditions like Asatru and so forth, and also obviously Christians, which that's the traditional religion of Western Europe over the last 2000 years, some parts later than others.
But we want this to be a big tent because I think we are facing a struggle as a people, just in general, like European descended people in the United States are being threatened with the loss of our rights.
We are legally discriminated against in employment.
In until recently, admissions in university.
And I think we have to form a block and defend our own rights and create our own spaces for the good of our community as a whole.
So the PMA, Return to the Land, is open to all types of traditional European religious denominations.
It so happens, yeah, most of us are Christians.
I'm a Christian.
Some people are agnostic.
Some people are kind of vaguely deist.
But that was also the case with the founding fathers.
Most of them were Christians.
Some of them were.
Were deists or, you know, not quite explicit about their views.
So we believe in that big tent.
We also believe that individual communities within this big tent should be able to set whatever standards they want.
So we can have Catholic communities, Orthodox communities that are all within this overarching desire to set ourselves apart and preserve our European way of life, tradition, and people.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We have somebody in the chat, a bit of a troll, and they pop in.
Quite frequently, but I just am curious to hear your answer.
And I know that they'll appreciate it, but others will find it fascinating as well.
They asked, What about Islam?
If they're European heritage in terms of ethnicity, but they are a practicing Muslim, would they be permitted in your development?
Admissions decisions are case by case, but we are an association for people of European heritage, European traditions.
Islam is not a European religion.
You know, some people might say Christianity originated in the Near East.
Yeah, I mean, arguably, but Paul himself visited mostly European communities on his travels.
What we know to be Christianity primarily developed in Europe, not the Near East.
So it has enough of those deep roots and it has a long enough history of being, you know, part of everyday European life.
Islam, you could say, Andalusian Spain, there is something there, but that was cast out violently.
Uh, I think with good cause because they had conquered that territory, and those people, the practitioners, were for the most part cast out.
Um, there is, I guess, Albania, uh, or what's the European country that is uh primarily Muslim, if ethnically European?
That's an anomaly, that's not traditional European values or traditional European religion.
Just like some people could say, well, if you look at the past, there are these depictions of homosexual acts, it does that mean that's traditional European values?
And no, that's an anomaly, that's a A deviance from the overarching European sense of morality and aesthetics and sensibilities that we can see very clearly echoed through all the classical documents, even Norse pagan documents, obviously the Christian tradition.
I think there's one overarching kind of sense of what is right and wrong, natural law that Europeans have recognized, and Islam does not fit in that category for us.
You mentioned homosexuality, and would it be fair to say as well that any individual in a homosexual life?
Style or friendly to it would also probably not be eligible to join as a member.
Right.
It's outside the values of our association.
The admissions decisions, though, are truly made on a case by case basis.
We have a list of factors that we consider.
It's not all just race, you know, it's not all just religion or are you straight or gay?
It's like we look at all of these things and say, is this compatible with traditional European heritage and values?
Yeah.
Defining Eligibility Within Our Community00:15:40
I think it'd be helpful if you could name, I don't know if we've named it yet in the show, just the state where you are.
And even just describe a little bit of the land.
Are we talking the purchasing of pretty much Main Street downtown, or is it much more so secluded?
Could you kind of just describe, you know, as you're here, specifically with where you started from?
I know you've mentioned the association itself has plans to expand.
But where you are right now, are we talking the takeover of an existing town or infrastructure in a major U.S. state that's kind of central to politics?
Or is this much more so, hey, we're a little bit off the beaten path, but this is our land and this is what we want to do with it?
By far, it's the latter.
So, we're down a dirt road in a low population density area of northern Arkansas in the Ozarks.
The area is like 95 plus percent white already.
Our land here is 160 acres.
Plenty of individuals out here own far more land than that.
And that's not an issue.
Obviously, a private family can keep whoever they want off their land.
But we actually are more inclusive than the typical owner of 160 acres.
We bring multiple families in here, people from different areas.
So, we're more inclusive than the typical homestead out here.
But it's pretty rudimentary as far as infrastructure goes.
There was nothing here when we bought it.
It was actually logged.
We bought it from a logging company who had logged the front half of it.
So, the front half is clear, the back half is still wooded.
There's a spring, which is pretty neat, and a creek that runs through the property.
So, I think we got lucky as far as the natural features.
We all love it here.
The kids love it here.
They can explore how.
You know, it reminds me of reading like Huck Finn and Tom Sawyer and stuff like that as a kid.
And that's how childhood really should be.
So we're happy with the kind of homesteading ethos that it's encouraging, the connection with nature.
We have probably like, I don't know, around 10 cabins that have been built, some larger buildings.
And yeah, I mean, people are kind of roughing it in the past, not currently, but in the past, people have lived in tents on the land.
For periods of time, we've always abided by all health department guidelines.
We've had porta potties out here when necessary.
We have septic systems.
We've had wells drilled and we've cut our own roads.
So we did this on a shoestring budget and just barely had enough to purchase the property and get the most essential roads cut.
Still, there's road construction left to do.
There's a lot of work left to do.
And there's not been a single point in our history.
Here, where we've had more hands than work available for those hands, there's always work to do.
And it's kind of nice.
You know, you constantly see new buildings going up, and it just makes it feel like you're part of something larger, you know?
Yeah.
If I was willing to bet, I would guess that thus far, there's probably no one who has applied, who would want to be there and applied, who's been turned away.
Would that be accurate?
Well, we do reject plenty of applicants.
It's a relatively small percentage of rejections, but we found that people can have all sorts of issues.
We, I mean, there are people with real mental problems, frankly, that have applied, you know, obvious kind of schizophrenic tendencies, not to diagnose people, but you get on the phone with someone and you can figure out pretty quick is this a grounded, sensible, sane person that you would feel comfortable being around your children?
And that's, of course, we have to reject people because there are kids here.
This is where our families live.
Now, getting into the PMA is relatively easy.
The majority of people do get in the actual company that owns this land to buy into that and join the physical community.
That's tougher.
You have to pass a background check and come down here physically, meet with us, and the vote has to be an overwhelming majority.
We want you in the community.
We've also thought of ways situations may arise when someone displays behavior that wasn't disclosed, they develop a drug habit, something.
You know, about their lifestyle is harmful to the community as a whole.
And we do have ways of processing people out and fairly compensating them for whatever improvements they made to the land that they were living on.
And so, therefore, the value of the share of the company.
So, we would have an assessor come out and get a fair market value for everything.
And then we'd allow PMA members to buy it.
And then, if no one in the PMA wanted to buy it, this company would be on the hook for ultimately buying people out.
Luckily, we've not had to do that.
We have kicked people out of the PMA thus far, but it's a very big tent.
We let a lot of people in and it's on mission, it's on focus.
We do have values that we care about, it's just they're values that are intended to be shared across the entire European tradition.
So there's room for most of us in RTTL.
Where do people go to church?
Do you guys have a church on site that you've started, or do people leave the neighborhood and go into town?
We don't have a church here.
We don't actually even have a community center built yet.
We had building materials come in today, I think, to put up a pavilion.
That'll be our first community center.
We had a budget for a community center.
You know, it's a nice idea to have a space where you can all get together.
But like you got to bear in mind when we started here, people didn't even have basic shelter.
You know, first you have to build a roof over your own head and have a well and have a septic tank and things like that.
And then you can start thinking about these bigger projects.
So we did have a budget.
For a community center, but then other more necessary expenses came up, like roads.
We did budget for roads too, but we had no idea just the extent of what that work would involve.
And like creek crossings, having to effectively construct bridges, it's all that stuff is many tens of thousands of dollars.
So the community center had to wait until this phase.
Eventually, it would be great if we could have some kind of church service run.
There's some of the people here are Orthodox, and I know an Orthodox guy who probably would be willing to come down.
And like, lead an Orthodox service here.
I think that'd be awesome.
I would probably attend that.
I haven't been Orthodox.
I've practiced Catholic throughout my life.
I was the church organist at the local Catholic church nearby until recently.
And that's just for factors in my own life.
I couldn't follow the Catholic church anymore.
But I'm still a Christian.
I'm still open to finding whatever that one true path is.
I'm also willing to accept that maybe I'm wrong in my schism with the church.
But, you know, that's more a philosophical question.
People go to different churches.
They have different kinds of denominations they follow.
Gotcha.
So now let's shift gears a little bit.
I want to talk about some of the backlash that you've experienced, some of the stories, some of the networks that are picking it up.
It seems like there are some legacy media outlets that are making quite the to do about this project.
And then there's even been some.
Some civil leaders in your state of Arkansas that have made comments.
So, could you catch us up to speed with what's going on with all the opposition?
Is it looking like you guys might get shut down?
Are you going to be okay?
What's going on?
Yeah, there's no indication that they're going to be able to shut us down.
We haven't gotten fined, there's been no lawsuit.
I think because the people who would actually be responsible for doing that see that we're not doing anything illegal.
We did a lot of research to make sure we weren't violating the law.
That's not to get around laws and find loopholes, it's just to abide by the letter of the law as it exists.
And we've been meticulous about it.
Now, people may decide to sue us anyway for a whole list of reasons.
You know, someone might find something.
So we're building up a legal fund, and all of this attention has helped us raise a lot of money in donations for that legal fund.
Part of that is defensive and reactive.
You know, we have the resources if we have to hire really good lawyers to defend us.
But in the meantime, we're hiring really good lawyers to proactively research how our documents can be improved.
How our structure can be improved so that there's no risk of violating state or federal law.
As far as the nature of the media coverage, I mean, it's impossible to track all of it now.
It's huge.
I mean, mainstream networks have covered us.
I was on TMZ, which is surreal.
Like, I never thought there'd be any reason for me to be on TMZ.
I don't even watch TMZ.
But yeah, it all started a few weeks ago when this one guy on. R slash Jewish on Reddit put out a thread about us and called on his readers to contact local government, state government, media, civil rights groups, stuff like that.
He just kind of declared war on us on his own behalf.
And enough of his followers obviously paid attention because media was contacted, government was contacted, people have made statements, stories have come of it.
Actually, before any of that happened, it's really like a strange coincidence that Sky News, somehow, I think probably through my own.
Uh, social media heard about us and they wanted to come out and do a story.
I had watched this journalist's coverage in the past, Tom Sheshire, and he was actually pretty neutral to the people he covered, even if they were controversial.
So I was like, Well, he's probably the fairest take we're gonna get.
Um, so we did let him in and we're pretty nice to him for three days and invited him to dinner and did all sorts of stuff, um, for his benefit, for the benefit of his story.
It ended up being a little bit of a hit piece, but despite that, people were still very positive about it.
But then his story came out in the middle of this.
You know, hype cycle created by the Jewish Redditor and other, you know, smaller media that had covered it.
Then the Sky News detailed piece came out.
People had video clips to air, and then all the major networks clipped out of the Sky News thing.
And then it was just everywhere, millions and millions of views, which that's only been the last week.
Yeah.
So the last three weeks, it's been looking, you know, I was conscious of this months ago, years ago, that this would eventually happen.
And I couldn't have predicted exactly how it happened, but I think it's really not in their best interest to be pushing this this hard because if you look at all the comments, people are on our side.
A minority of people think we shouldn't be allowed to do it.
Probably the majority are neutral and think, well, let them do what they want.
Who are they hurting?
And then a small minority, again, are on our side and want to join.
So they're helping us find people to build more communities, they're helping us raise funds, and they're really kind of.
Pressing at a sore spot in the public consciousness where people now just lately are aware of the anti white bias in the media and institutions.
And so here they are just baldly confirming it for everyone to see.
It's a gross misstep and one that is only going to benefit us, I think.
Yeah.
The Jewish Redditor.
I feel shocked.
I don't know about you, Wes.
I believe it.
Eric, did that come as a surprise, the particular individual on Reddit who seemed to be so opposed?
You know, you would think Jews having all of these intentional communities in Israel, around the world, in the United States, They see the value in preserving their people.
They're actually very conscientious and take precautions to protect their people from possible genocides or pogroms or persecution.
And so you would think they would understand, you know?
But no, I'm not exactly surprised.
Antiquism for me, but not for thee.
That seems to be the Jewish motto.
Anything else that you would think that's pertinent or fascinating that our listeners might be interested in that you'd like to share?
As far as the recent attacks, no, it's basically a lot of hot air, frankly, and they're going to find new angles to attack and new kind of criticisms of our legal model.
I think it's notable that while a few people have questioned the legality, very few people are willing to explicitly question the morality of what we're doing.
And, you know, you can attack me as a person or other members, but as far as the right of a group, To go and do their own thing.
It's like almost everyone universally supports that.
So if they keep pressing it, that's the moral debate that they're opening up.
And it's one that they cannot possibly win.
So I think even if we got sued and lost or fined and lost in our appeal, they would be forcing by their own hand a nationwide moral debate that they're just doomed to fail.
So it's almost like, regardless of what happens to us, It's going to be worth it.
You know, we lose, even if we lost all of our assets, which I don't think is very likely at all.
It seems like realistically, the worst they could feasibly do is fine us through the Fair Housing Commission.
And that would be like a $15,000 fine.
And then we'd have to rework our documents and restructure ownership and stuff like that.
It wouldn't be, you know, the end of the world.
But even if that happens, like, there's going to be national outrage.
People are going to be upset that they've basically just declared, no, whites can't have their own neighborhood.
European Americans, you are not allowed to do anything.
To protect your tradition and people.
And I would just ask that question back to them like, okay, well, if my values include preserving my own people, which that's pretty normal, that's what basically every group of people through all time has wanted to do preserve themselves.
It's built into the nature of life, you know.
I would just ask, all right, what then am I allowed to do?
I can't even have my own neighborhood on my own private land that I developed from scratch with my friends.
Like, what exactly are you expecting me to do?
Just roll over and die?
Or what?
So I think they're opening up the worst possible framing for a debate on their end.
And even if we lose, I'm curious what happens out of that because it's going to be big.
And if we win, it's also going to be big.
It's going to set major precedent and embolden others to follow suit.
So, what they've done attacking us so openly, so in such a contradictory way, hypocritically, they have initiated more political change in the direction that I'd like to see than I possibly could have by myself.
Building Godly Marriages Together00:04:30
It's just kind of amazing.
You and friends bought 160 acres that's relatively rural, and you've said, I want to pick my neighbors because I want my kids to have a great upbringing.
We're talking national news.
He wants to do that.
He did this with his own money.
It's just kind of incredible, like taking all the factors into account.
You're not talking about the takeover of a city, you're not talking about a huge initiative like, hey, we're in Arkansas and this is where we want to live.
And again, you're rooting it in this is what I want for my kids.
Am I not allowed to do that?
And to the national level, like we, to some, again, the majority, you're right, I think, is with you.
But the many that are like, we can't believe that.
You would want that.
It's kind of insane.
Okay.
How can people follow what you're doing?
Where do they go?
Is there a website, something like that?
Yeah.
You can go to returntotheland.org, check out our documents.
We've tried to make everything very transparent, very explicit.
We're interested in helping other people form similar communities.
So it's not just restricted to this one site in Arkansas, because I think it's the right of every American to.
Form communities on whatever basis.
You know, I support Black people who want to do the same thing, Jewish people who want to do the same thing.
So we want to help others.
As far as my own social media, you can follow me on X at Arval, A A R V O L L underscore.
Arval was taken, unfortunately.
It's a common Norwegian name.
So yeah, I mean, keep an eye out because I don't think this story is done.
And I'm curious myself to see where it goes.
Yeah.
We'll be watching.
Okay.
Well, thank you, Eric, for coming on the show.
And we'll.
See you around.
All right, thank you for the invite.
Yeah, you're welcome.
Let's go to our first commercial break and we'll be right back.
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So there's a difference between would you do this versus should it be allowed to be done?
There's a pretty clear distinction between those two questions.
In terms of what I would do, I'm just looking at the chat and thinking about the listeners, some of the questions that they may ask themselves or want to hear me address after that short interview.
And I feel like that would be one of those questions is they say, would you do this?
And, you know, my answer is.
Off the cuff, would be no, I would not have an intentional neighborhood that allows for pagans.
I would want all of my neighbors to be Christian.
So I would definitely have some guidelines that are quite a bit stricter in the religious category.
I want to be with Christians first and foremost.
So it's not something that I personally would do.
But should it be allowed?
That's the question.
Whether you have an intentional community surrounded by religious criteria or ethnic criteria or Other virtues or values that people hold in common.
The question is, is there an allowance?
Is it morally permissible biblically?
And then also, is it legally permissible in our country to have freedom of association?
Freedom of association.
So that's what we're going to be addressing in a moment.
But before we do, there's a couple clips, too, to be precise, that I thought were fascinating, both from different angles.
But the first is I had.
Recently, the opportunity last week, I believe it was on Friday, to go on Fearless, is the name of the show by Jason Whitlock.
He's with The Blaze.
And he brought up this community that's being built, this neighborhood led by Eric, the guy that we just interviewed.
And I thought that he had a good take.
Jason Whitlock just essentially said, Yeah, I don't see the big deal.
Nobody has to be a part of it.
And you're not stopping anybody else from doing the same thing.
If somebody else wants to have their own neighborhood and they're going to buy the land, they're not asking for the government to carve it out for them.
You're going to work hard, raise your money, buy a portion of land at a fair price, and have stipulations for who your neighbors are going to be.
So I think Jason Whitlock, as a black man, had a very reasonable take.
He was actually a guest named Bryce.
Right.
Well, Jason talked about it also.
But then he had a panel.
And so I was one of the individuals who was on the panel.
And this was one of the topics of discussion.
And there was another individual who was also a black man, Dr. Boyce, I believe, is who it was.
And Jason Whitlock asked him the same question What do you think about this?
Uh, this neighborhood, right?
Return to the land that's being developed, and you know, the criteria, the ethnic criteria that they have.
Um, and he had a response that I thought was both reasonable and the way that he worded it, I just thought was fascinating.
And I wanted to share that clip with you now.
What do you think of some white people saying, Look, you know, we need to segregate ourselves?
I don't care, I mean, that's their lives.
I mean, you know, I think it's really fascinating.
I think, um, I think the brother speaking earlier brought this point up where he talked about this brand of pro blackness that's not only falsely rooted in liberalism, which right there is disrespectful.
All black people are not liberal.
It also leans on this really, really deep seated need for white validation.
I've never been a white man before.
I'm sure it's fascinating, but I would probably be confused.
About sort of, you know, people, this group of people that really feel the need to be wherever I'm at.
Well said.
That's kind of what I said in our first segment, but I'll reiterate it once more.
It just seems ironic, hypocritical, I think would be a fair word to say, you're wicked and evil and racist.
And also, please let me in.
I just struggle to understand that just as a concept.
You're wicked, you're vile, you're racist, and please let me live next to you.
I don't understand.
If somebody is wicked and vile and racist and terrible, wouldn't it be a benefit to have them move off to the boondocks in Arkansas?
I was about to say, we're not talking about joining them in an already established town.
Right.
Please let us join you in the mountains.
Yeah, it would be different.
It's you and me.
If a couple dozen white families move to Atlanta and say, You see this hat?
This is totally my hat now.
Yeah, like this is our town now, and everybody else has to get out.
That's quite a different situation.
But we're talking about individuals purchasing land in the middle of nowhere where nobody else lives.
And as he said, the surrounding areas, the demographics is already before they got there 95% white.
That's the situation that we're talking about.
And I appreciated both Jason Whitlock and this individual, Dr. Boyce.
I'm not familiar with him other than this quick segment that you just saw.
But both of them, I think, had the right take in saying, What's the big deal?
What's the big deal?
Okay, so we wanted to talk a little bit in terms of historically the legal precedent.
Is this not just moral, but is it legal?
Is it American?
We might ask.
So, Wes, do you want to show some quotes?
Yeah, absolutely.
So, I'm going to read actually the First Amendment.
And the reason this matters is because what's under attack, and most specifically what was attacked in the Civil Rights Act.
Was the freedom of association?
You can read if you haven't already.
I believe it's Eric Caldwell.
Is that his name?
The Age of Entitlement, where he.
Christopher Caldwell.
Christopher Caldwell, where he details how the Civil Rights Act in many ways destroyed a lot of the fundamental freedoms that we had up until the 1960s.
And a big one has been the freedom of association.
So let me read the First Amendments.
This is again from the Bill of Rights.
The first 10 amendments form the Bill of Rights as part of the Constitution.
And it says this Congress, and I'll get to that word there in a minute Congress being the first word, should make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof or abridging the freedom of speech or of the press or of the right of the people to peaceably.
The right of the people peaceably to assemble and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
And so there are five kinds of freedoms there that Congress can't infringe upon.
And a big one of those is the freedom of assembling.
So someone could come back and say, well, freedom of association is not a right that is given to us in the Bill of Rights.
But what's really been interpreted by the Supreme Court, and I'll show some quotes here in a minute, is right in there that freedom of assembling necessarily includes the freedom to assembly with the type of people that you want to assemble with.
In the 1958s, leading right up to 1960, you had the NAACP versus the state of Alabama, the NAACP being the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People.
The NAACP was being sued by the state, and I believe it was to reveal their membership roles.
And they were pushing back and saying, hey, we have a right as a private group, we're not a government group, we're not a town, we're not a city, we're not a congress.
We have the right as a private group for black people to basically do what we want to do and to keep our membership roles.
Private and listen to what the Supreme Court decided and think about it in the context now the shoe is reversed.
We're not talking about black people in the late 1950s, we're talking about whites in 2025.
The Supreme Court said, It is beyond debate that freedom to engage in the association, so freedom to band together for the advancement of beliefs and ideas, is an inseparable aspect of the liberty assured by the Due Process Clause of the 14th Amendment, which embraces freedom of speech.
I did say that I would get back to Congress.
I think Cantwell versus Connecticut.
It was in the 60s.
Basically, when you see Congress there, that also applies to the states.
So it's not as though the federal government, they couldn't, it's not as though the First Amendment, it bars them from coming to me and saying, like, oh, we're going to restrict your freedom of religion, but the state of Texas could.
That freedom, all those freedoms that are enumerated, it's neither the federal government nor the state that can come in and take them from you.
And you have here the Supreme Court saying it is beyond debate.
I really like Matt Walsh's take on this.
It is beyond debate that the freedom, To associate with people that you want to associate with, not associate with the people you don't want to associate.
This is Justice Brennan from Roberts versus United States, JC's, 1984.
He said, Freedom of association, therefore, plainly presupposes a freedom not to associate.
That freedom, the First Amendment, the 14th Amendment, Congress, referring to both our federal government and our state level, that is one of the fundamental freedoms that we have.
The freedom to go to the church that we want to go to, the freedom to Go out in public and say, I'm going to gather here.
The freedom to petition, the freedom of speech.
Again, the government can't come in and tell you, you're not allowed to criticize X, Y, and Z.
And so, what Eric is standing on is saying, if we don't have this, and he said it in his interview if we don't have this, if we are literally not allowed because of our skin color to buy land and to live here and to choose who our neighbors are, then what rights and freedoms do we actually have left?
What is there left for us to exercise?
Literally, the only thing is watch the clock as you disappear and are replaced.
Right.
Somebody in the chat was asking So, do you want a Christian nation or a white nation or both?
And I thought it would be helpful to hear my answer.
My answer is the same as I've espoused publicly several times before.
I haven't changed.
So, first, I want a Christian nation.
And then, secondly, the way that I would word it is this I want a Christian nation and I want an American nation.
I would like for America to be America.
And so, when I think of that last piece, that second piece, right, because it's not just a Christian nation.
If Japan became 100% Christian and my family moved there, I would be ecstatic to be surrounded by Christian brothers and sisters in the Lord.
But I'd also be sad.
Because I'm an American and I'd be losing my home.
I'd be losing my traditions.
I'd be losing my heritage, my history, those kinds of things.
Japan still wouldn't be home, not for me.
Generations down the line, you know, for my great great grandchildren, then it'd be like, this is home.
And that's great.
But for me, I would be displaced.
And there's something sad with losing your home.
Okay.
So, one, I want a Christian nation.
But second, I want.
A nation that is American simply because I'm American and we're talking about that particular nation being America.
And so, on that second piece, so first Christian, second American, and that second piece, it's not just when you think of, well, what is America as it comes down to demographics?
Well, it's not simply centuries ago, looking at, you know, the mid 1700s and, you know, what were the demographics of America?
What Percentage was it, you know, European and what percentage black and what percentage Hispanic?
It's we're not just talking about, you know, the makeup, the ethnic makeup of America, you know, 300 years ago.
We're talking about the demographics of America less than 100 years ago.
If you just go back just 15 minutes before the Hart Seller Act and the Civil Rights Act in the mid 1900s, less than a century ago, and you look at the demographics and then you look at what they are today.
What you realize is it's not just the great replacement with white people, although that is not a conspiracy.
That is absolutely fact.
But it's more than that because a certain majority of white people has been the historic and heritage makeup of America.
What you have is the replacement of America.
You're getting a different country.
It's a different country with a different people, with a foreign people who are not heritage Americans.
And so, to answer the question, do you want a Christian nation or do you want a white nation or do you want both?
I want, yes, a Christian nation.
And then, secondly, I want an American nation.
And an American nation that is truly historically American would be a nation that is not actively participating and engaging and facilitating the replacement of its heritage population.
So, that doesn't mean if I was king for a day, the America that I envision is not 100% exclusively white.
But it is a majority white nation because that's simply the history of this nation.
And any intentional, active policies and cultural influences that are trying to erode that and change that, I believe are wicked.
And I believe that would be wicked if you did it in any other country.
I think any intentional strategy and policy and cultural influence to make Japan white or black is.
Is wrong.
I think that's morally wrong.
So that's my answer to the question that was posited.
And, you know, I was thinking about freedom of association as Wes, as you were talking and showing some of the legal precedent in our country's history.
And I was thinking about, you know, even as a kid, I remember flipping through the channels and seeing there's B E T, black entertainment.
And I was like, how is that even a thing?
I was like, black entertainment?
Media Outlets Addressing Racial Issues00:13:52
Like, where's the wet channel, white entertainment?
And I remember bringing it up, you know, with my dad and saying, how is this a thing?
And why isn't there an equivalent for white people, you know?
And him helping me think through that.
And he did a really good job.
And part of the answer was, well, it's because black people are a minority.
And their answer, if I had asked, polled just the average black person, obviously not every black person would think this.
Plenty of black people would probably say, yeah, it's dumb.
Why is there BET?
But there would be, if I was just looking at per capita averages and asking 100 black people, can you help clarify or morally justify why there is a TV channel called BET?
Probably the answer that I would get, at least from a number of individuals, would be well, because all the other channels are wet, right?
White entertainment.
Wet TV is every other channel by default.
And so this is just us being able to have our channel because all the rest are yours.
And apply that to, you know, even, you know, the same principle now, apply it to education.
Part of the reason why Protestants are behind the eight ball when it comes to intentional private Protestant Christian schools.
Whereas Catholics have about a 50 year head start in America is because the public schools, right?
It would have been the same principle, the same answer in principle given if you ask that question.
Well, why are there Catholic schools, but there's no Protestant schools?
And the Catholics would have looked at us back in the day and said, What are you talking about?
You have public schools and they are Protestant because there was literally scripture reading and prayer and even catechisms, Protestant catechisms like the Westminster.
In the public schools.
The public schools really were Protestant.
And so I think for any society, any nation, there usually is a hegemony, a majority.
And that majority, whether it's their entertainment or whether it's their education system or whatever it is, there's a majority.
And the majority is usually not intentional in thinking, hey, we need to have something that represents us.
Because simply by virtue, by default of being the majority, Most things in that society by default do represent them.
But times have changed.
And as times are changing, and America has gone, correct me if I'm wrong, I'm going to ballpark it here.
But I believe, again, in the 1900s, not just, you know, 1600s or 1700s, but about 1940, give or take, 1945, you had about 89%, 90%.
88 to 89, I've seen.
Yep.
Yeah.
89, 90% white, European descent.
In America today, it's, I believe, 59%.
Does that sound like it might be in the low 60s still?
Okay.
But around that.
I've seen charts recently that said 59, so I may be off by one or two points, but pretty close.
So we're ballparking it, but I think we're in the ballpark about 89 to 59, right?
So 30 percentage points down.
But when you think of what 89 to 59, that's 30 of the 89, you're talking about a good 40% drop, almost half.
Almost half, not quite, but on track.
If you look at most sociologists and what they're predicting of the demographics of America by 2050, it's less than 50%, less than half.
And so, my point is this as the demographics of our country are changing and changing rapidly, yes, we want to push back against certain immigration policies.
Yes, I would like to see the Civil Rights Act repealed.
I would like to see the Hart Seller Act.
All these things go away, and we'd like to push back against anti immigration.
American policies when it comes to immigration, and we would like to see mass deportations as well.
But if these things don't happen and we continue on the trajectory that we're currently on, then what you're going to see with those who are of European heritage is the types of behaviors that you have seen in our country and any other country for that matter of every minority group.
Every minority group thinks like this.
Jews are going to do business predominantly with other Jews.
They're used to being a fractional minority of whatever nation they're in, and they stick together for better or worse.
You see Hispanics doing this.
You see Blacks in America doing this.
And not just in an American context, but any minority group in any country usually has facilitated intentionally some kind of, whether it's in the economic business context, Sense or the religious sense, or with education, or with entertainment, or what they have some things that are their things.
This is our thing, this is our thing, and usually the group in any given nation that doesn't have their thing is because the vast majority of things in that nation by default are their thing because they're the hegemony, they're the majority.
And so, I think that what we're seeing is simply the outflow of whites in America becoming a minority.
Yeah, this is what happens.
So, if you're going to erode.
The bedrock demographic, the historical demographic of a nation, and you're going to intentionally through propaganda with entertainment and Hollywood and legislatively, you know, in a civil manner at every single level, if you're going to have leaders, whether they be, you know, civil leaders or whether it be simply elites in entertainment and media,
if you're going to have decades of the elites of your society.
Intentionally working to make the majority people of that society a minority, then you're going to see that group of people begin to think like this.
That's simply the result.
I bet you, I'd be willing to bet that you would not have this project returned to the land if you did not have the Civil Rights Act and the Hart Cellar Act and the erosion of the heritage demographics of.
America over the last 60 years.
If it was still 89, 90% white Americans and some measured policy of immigration and the people who come who are non white are treated respectfully as guests and all these kinds of things, but it's a Christian nation and it's a nation that keeps its basic demographics over time, then you probably don't see stories like this.
But that's not the situation we're in.
And on the proportion losing that majority white, we did a whole episode.
It was probably about a year ago at this point.
The blessings of colonialism.
When the whites are the majority, typically, not in every single case, but typically, their rule, so to speak, has been very, very benevolent to those that are the minority.
I would say white America, generally speaking, of course, not in every case, in every time, in every state, but generally, white America has been very benevolent to the black community as far as care, as far as lifting them up.
Same thing when you go overseas with aid, be it to Africa, but when the roles are reversed, so when you go from majority white to minority white, I think of two places that that's happening South Africa, white farmers being murdered, being treated very respectfully, very respectfully, taken care of, given their own television channel.
I think they do parades and And say, hey, these guys literally feed the whole country.
Right, they produce like 80% of the food.
Oh, they take their children, crucify them on tables, and kill them.
Yes.
That's what happens when whites are the minority.
In London, London has gone from about 80% white to about 53%.
One of the first episodes we did this year was on roving gangs of Middle Eastern men who are systemically raping white girls.
So when it's majority white, there is a structure and an order there that we take for granted.
When it's majority white, minorities are treated fairly.
Yep.
When it's not the gospel, typically, society is ordered, society is safe.
But when that's flipped, when that inverts as it's looking to do, you will be begging.
You may not like it now, but you will be begging.
What's that?
A small community way off in the hills in Arkansas where I can see people coming from miles away?
That's what we're looking at.
And some people are saying, ooh, I kind of want to get ahead of that.
I'm going to get my land now.
Really sad.
So, yeah, so we're not stoked about where we are currently as a country and some of these things.
Propping up, but we're willing to admit we can see why there are many, and the number is growing by the day, who see it as a necessity.
Because as much as it is a Christian principle, and it is a Christian principle to treat your fellow man, regardless of his ethnic heritage, with respect and kindness and dignity, as much as that is a Christian principle, and it is, that principle.
Nowhere in scripture overrides the moral duty and obligation of husbands and fathers to make sure that their children aren't raped and crucified on tables.
That's a pretty basic Christian principle protect and provide.
And it's sad that we live in the world that we do and that our country is heading in the direction that it is.
And yet, here we are.
Well, let's play that clip from just over the weekend.
Yep.
So here's a clip that no legacy media outlet, thus far, that I know of, ABC, none of these groups have even mentioned this event that just took place over the weekend.
There are some independent media outlets that are addressing it.
Alex Jones actually just came out with a video addressing it, I believe, earlier this morning and did a good job.
And Jason Whitlock, he retweeted him and said, Hey, that's well said.
But there is no.
Official legacy media institution that has touched it.
Now, remember, because I want you to compare and contrast with this episode as a whole, all the legacy media outlets are coming out to talk about hey, there's some guys in the Ozarks that privately bought a portion of land and want to live with each other, right?
So every legacy media outlet found that to be very relevant and have talked about it ad nauseum to the point where the attorney general of Arkansas is now coming out and making a statement and these kinds of things.
But none of those legacy media outlets.
Have talked about another event, not with people who are being respectful and hurting no one, but an event that just took place this weekend where you have two individuals, a white man and a white woman, who are being beat within an inch of their life.
Now, we're going to show this is your warning.
If you're a parent, this is not appropriate for children.
And even if you're a mother and you are an adult, you just may want to skip this part.
And that's your prerogative.
We're going to show a portion of the clip.
There's a latter section.
The video does actually go on, and we're going to cut out the latter portion of this clip because it's just heinous.
But I'll describe it just briefly.
So here's your warning.
Go ahead and tune out now if you would like.
But you're going to see a man being pummeled brutally and by a 15 to 1 ratio by a mob.
And the part where the video continues that we've cut out is that a white woman, presumably a friend or a wife or something like that, steps in and is sucker punched.
To try to help.
So to try to help.
I'm coming and swinging.
Hey, there's a guy.
She's just trying to break it up.
Can I help him?
She's trying to save a white man from being killed.
And she gets sucker punched in the face by a black man so hard that she immediately just paralyzes and falls down with her eyes open and looks like she's dead.
There's blood coming out of her mouth.
You do see, like, there's blood coming out of her mouth.
You do see her, some people helping her up, but she is probably some lasting, severe damage from that assault.
And so we've cut that part out.
But again, This is something that happened at a jazz festival in where?
Where was it?
Cincinnati, Ohio.
Cincinnati, Ohio over the weekend.
No legacy media outlet has addressed it at all.
Here's the clip.
And it continues and gets exponentially worse.
And then the white woman steps in to try to defend this man.
And as I've already said, she gets hit severely worse than the man did.
Body Cams and Independent Reporting00:07:18
And when you see things like this, and I think a lot of it is because the suppression of independent media is no longer happening, it's no longer successful like it was for years and years and years.
We've often talked on our show about.
There's a sense in which the high watermark of the left, whether it be all the virtues that the left stands for, the LGBT mafia, anti white crime, all these things kind of reached their high watermark in 2021 and 2022.
And then there was a great pushback against that.
And one of the outflows of that was the election of Donald Trump, that has been good in some sense and also disappointing, and others, and we'll see, time will tell.
But either way you slice it, I think that you can say that the spirit, the stranglehold, I should say, of cancel culture has significantly lessened in the last two to three years.
Let's say two years.
So in 2025, just I mean, here's an example Nick Fuentes is able to be back on Twitter.
And he was not previously banned for several years.
And so every social media platform, not all of them equally, of course, but all of them, To varying degrees, they are lessening their restrictions, lessening their cancel culture stranglehold.
And what's the result of it?
Well, it's the same result as remember when the black community was demanding we need body cams, right?
Because police are just shooting us dead in the street.
And so we need body cams.
Those police officers must be held accountable.
One of the greatest mistakes the black community has ever made was demanding those body cams because.
The footage did not work in their favor.
Instead, we've got videos going viral almost weekly of some individual black citizen enraged, holding a knife, holding a club, doing something and trying to kill a police officer.
And so it has not panned out well.
Well, likewise, as this suppression of independent media, thinking of social media platforms like YouTube and like X, has lessened, what you're seeing is videos like this.
And you're not just seeing a video like this once a year.
Right, you're you know, you're seeing these things happen with regularity.
You're hearing stories again on independent media sources, the legacy media won't touch it, but you're hearing news stories of you know, a 17 year old black teenager stabbing a white teenager in the heart and killing him in cold blood.
And then immediately following that scene, oh, there's a campaign to raise almost a million dollars for the white kid and for his parents who are grieving, nope, for the black kid, so that he can get a new car and get a house.
And as these things Are you know they've been normative sadly for a while, but as they're getting now visibility because the gatekeeping mechanisms of legacy media are loosening and dissipating, what you're going to see when that's coupled with mass immigration, when that's coupled with the heritage demographics of our country disintegrating,
and these kinds of videos of atrocious acts being committed.
Against white people by non white people, the result that you're going to get is if the civil magistrate will not step in, if he refuses.
And I just, last thing, I want to say this.
In terms of biblical justice, right?
We're Christians.
In terms of biblical justice, the biblical justice is that crime should be punished.
So if you're asking me, well, Joel, is this what you want to see?
What I want to see is every single black individual.
Who participated in this riot in pummeling these two white individuals nearly to death?
I want to see them all with a fair trial, charged and punished to the full extent of the law.
That's what I want to see.
And this is not a crazy far right extremist position.
Our vice president literally just came out and said the same thing throw them in jail.
I believe he used, you know, throw their ASS in jail.
And I would give my hearty amen to that sentiment.
But what happens in a society?
If culturally, legally, in terms of media and influence, if all these ways, both formal and informal, you have an ever increasing swath, namely minority groups through immigration,
an ever increasing swath of the population that is able to commit crimes against what used to be the prominent hegemony, historic hegemony of that nation, and they're able to do so with impunity, cultural impunity, legal impunity.
The solution, the Christian solution, is justice, not actually separation, but justice, meaning strict penalties and punishments for the perpetrators.
But if you live in a context where that does not occur, then what do you expect?
What do you expect fathers and husbands to do?
They're going to say, well, you won't punish them, and I'm not going to be a vigilante and do it myself.
That's unjust, that's wrong.
And there would be severe consequences for me.
We saw Derek Chauvin.
We saw Daniel Penny.
So you won't punish them.
I can't do anything.
So I'm going to quietly leave at great cost, by the way.
We're going to have to build our own water wells and build a septic system and purchase this land in the middle of nowhere.
And we're going to have to drive 45 minutes to the post office and all these.
To me, that's the most Christian response you could possibly have.
You won't do justice.
I'm pleading with you, civil magistrate, to do justice.
You won't.
I'm not going to do it because it wouldn't be justice.
I'm not the God ordained party to do so.
It would be vigilanteism.
But I do still have a duty to protect and provide for my own family.
And so I'm going to take them away.
I'm going to take them away.
Why?
Because every minority person, individual, is a criminal?
No.
But I don't know who they are.
I'm not God.
I'm not omniscient.
I don't have X ray vision.
I don't know which individual might commit a crime and which one don't.
So I'm looking at those things, right?
The secret things belong to the Lord.
But there are certain things that are revealed in scripture and in nature, things that are observant that we can see visibly.
And I can see not each individual's heart, but what I can see is I can see statistics.
I can pull up the FBI statistics.
Right.
Biblical Standards Over Favoritism00:05:57
And if I know that there's a certain group of people that from ages 15 to 40, that the males of that population commit, which would be 6% of black males, 6% of the total U.S. population, and they commit, I believe it's 51 or 52% of all homicides.
Depends on the crime, depends on the city, but around there, 50 to 60%.
From 6%, black people being about 13%, but the males about 6%.
If 6% of my country's population is committing over 50% of the violent crimes and homicides, then yeah, I don't want to live in Atlanta anytime soon.
In fact, I'll say it stronger than that.
I morally, as a Christian husband and father under God, I am morally obligated not to live in Atlanta in order to fulfill my God given duties.
As a husband and a father.
So here we are.
Here we are.
And anybody who says, well, that's racist, that's wicked, I've yet to see anyone make a biblical argument for why that's immoral.
It may be a Jewish Marxist word that has been invented in the last few years.
It may be that, but that doesn't mean anything.
I don't operate by that, I operate by biblical standards.
And in terms of biblical standards, yes, there is such a thing as sinful favoritism.
There's a way of showing favoritism that is sinful.
There's also a way of showing favoritism that is not sinful, right?
That if a man does not provide for the members of his household, his family, he is worse than an unbeliever and has denied the faith.
Well, that verse doesn't say if a man doesn't provide for every single child in the entire world, right?
So what is that verse saying?
It's saying he actually should play favorites, he should favor.
He must favor.
It's not just permissible.
He is morally obligated to favor, when it comes to his physical provision, those members of his household above everyone else.
So we know that there are forms of favoritism that are not sinful.
But we also know from Scripture there are forms of favoritism that are sinful.
But the idea of saying that making any kind of outward visible judgment on the basis of ethnicity in a particular context.
Where there are great risks and the crimes being perpetrated are not being addressed, to say that that somehow is a sin.
I've yet to have anyone make for me the biblical argument.
So go ahead.
Yeah, I was just going to say someone did try to use Bible verses against you a little bit earlier in the chat.
It was the classic culprits, Galatians 3 28, Colossians 3 11, and Revelation 7 9, which say that in Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek, male or female, slave or free.
I love the Bible.
Amen.
But it's funny because the same Paul that said there's neither male nor female in Christ also said that women can't be pastors.
So maybe those categories are spiritual and the natural categories, such as crime statistics, for example.
I don't think Paul is using those verses.
In fact, I know he's not because he references biological distinctions elsewhere.
Those are not verses that come in, swing a hammer, and say, hey, you can't live around people that are like you.
You can't read crime statistics.
That would be ludicrous.
Don't entertain that silly exegesis of the verse.
You're right.
We have to be consistent in our biblical hermeneutics, in our exegesis.
So, if you're going to say, well, there's neither male nor female, Jew or Greek, slave or free, slave or master, those are the three categories that are all explicitly mentioned by name.
So there's an economic category there, slave or free.
There's an ethnic category there, Jews and Greeks.
And there is a sex, gender category, male or female.
And the Apostle Paul says in Galatians 3, verse, I believe it's verse 27, that none of these distinctions exist in Christ.
For all of you have been baptized, as many of you as have been baptized, you have taken on Christ.
Therefore, there is neither male nor female.
So take that, but then just be consistent.
Right.
And say, well, because we've been baptized and we're Christians, we're in Christ, there is no such thing as ethnic distinctions.
Well, that's fine.
But just go ahead.
I need to see you affirming transgenderism.
Right.
I just need you to be consistent.
So I just need to be.
Women pastors and transgenderism.
You need to be out there and say, I hate racism.
And also, I fully support men using the women's restroom.
Like Target nailed it.
Let's get, come on, Target.
Right.
Right.
So just be consistent.
Just say, I hate racism and I love transgenderism.
Just, just, but you gotta be consistent.
You gotta be consistent.
Let's go to our last commercial break and we will be right back.
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Receptive Soil for the Gospel00:17:29
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Okay, we are back.
This is our third and final segment now, and we're going to deal with the chat.
Many of you have sent in questions.
Our policy is just to simply show honor where honor is due, returning the favor.
We always prioritize the super chats.
So, those of you who have sent in a super chat, we will for sure.
I don't think there's hardly ever an episode that we don't address all the super chats.
If you send us a question and it's not a super chat, that's perfectly fine, and we'll do our best, but there are no guarantees.
Um, that we'll have time to get to your question, but for those of you sent in a super chat, uh, that moves you to the top of the list, and we prioritize that.
A couple housekeeping things that was one, uh, just one or two more, real quick.
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Okay, so three times a week with the live stream Monday, Wednesday, Friday at 3 p.m. Central Time.
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Simultaneously, both on X and YouTube.
Okay, so let's go ahead and hop into the super chats first.
Wes, would you go ahead and read the first one for us?
All right.
I'll start from the top here with Nick Bonner.
Nick gave $13.99, $3.99.
13.
Glasses are closer than I want to believe.
Nick said this Thank you, Nick.
I can hardly believe that God's chosen people would treat you so poorly.
Truly shocking.
God bless you and your community, Eric.
Yeah, God bless.
I wish them well.
God's chosen people, I think.
Knowing Nick, he's a regular contributor here with the live stream.
I'm picking up a little bit of sarcasm.
And I think Nick would respond by saying, Well, that's good because I'm laying it on pretty thick.
So I think the chosen people phrase is a quotation mark kind of situation.
Great.
Joel, I'll let you get this next one here.
Okay.
Michael, is that what you're referring to?
Enig Mandias.
Yeah, let's do the super chats first.
Enig Mandias.
I think that's pretty good.
Yeah.
Enig Mandias.
Super chat, $15.
Thank you.
We appreciate that.
Very kind.
He said the 13% issue, and so he's talking about the black community and some of the statistics that we just shared.
The 13% issue only has a few solutions.
And Americans in general have no stomach for these solutions, but they will beg for swift solutions when the majority has to fear just driving into town with their family.
Yeah, a lot of what we're trying to add, I think that's true.
I don't support that.
I'm certainly not praying or wishing for that or working towards that.
And I don't think Nig Mendes wants that either.
I think he's simply offering a very true factual.
Observation that we can notice from historical precedent.
So I don't think he wishes this, and we certainly don't wish this, but he brings up a good point.
And I just want to use it as an opportunity to say something I've said multiple times in the past.
But a lot of what we're doing with this ministry and shining a light on some of these problems and advocating for some solutions now, it does put us kind of on that far right edge of the Overton window.
And so because of that, it is kind of we're putting our neck out and it leaves us vulnerable for lots of.
Opposition and oftentimes, quite frequently, that opposition comes even in the form of slander, which is unfair.
But we're willing to subject ourselves to a position of vulnerability where we know we'll be slandered, where we know that we will get flack and opposition, much of it that is not merited.
But we're willing to do that because if no one talks about it now, then eventually it will get to the point where the humane solutions are no longer being considered.
The humane solutions, whether that's morally justifiable or not, what I'm saying is that if no one addresses these situations now, then eventually what will happen is that white people, if we continue on this trajectory with immigration and all these different things, will be a statistical minority in the nation.
You will have blacks committing violent crimes disproportionately.
You will also have Muslims.
Who have been imported here committing crimes disproportionately.
You also have non Muslims, but again, minority immigrants that are growing in size, like Haitians, who are also committing violent crimes.
And there is a tipping point.
And we see this in history in virtually every society.
There is a tipping point where eventually people are like, we've got to do something about this.
And if you wait too long, then when the people do finally react, They tend to react with violence.
They tend to react in severe ways.
And we would like to see that not be the case.
I don't want there to be a race war.
I don't want violent solutions.
We've never once, and by the grace of God, we never will once ever advocate for some kind of final solution.
That is certainly not our position.
We pray regularly and are working regularly to set the stage to where that would be unthinkable.
To where that would never take place.
But what that means is that we do something now.
And so the things that we should be talking about and considering now, well, the first would actually be a strict observance of the law.
There should be no more of these double standards, two tier systems of justice, because I don't want race riots.
I pray as a Christian pastor, I am earnestly praying that Carmelo Anthony would get the death penalty.
I am praying that that young man would lose his life in order to satisfy, according to Genesis chapter 9 and the Noahic covenant, God's biblical standard for justice.
I'm praying for that.
So I am actively praying as a Christian minister and speaking out saying, please, Lord, in your kindness and mercy to our nation, would this young black man please be put to death?
Please.
Because he's committed a capital offense, not arbitrarily put to death.
That's unjust.
That's wrong.
But for those who have committed, according to scripture, capital offenses, Lord, would you let justice roll down like waters, right?
Would you let justice flow in our nation and no more classes of citizens that are treated with impunity?
So that's the first solution.
This is the segregation issue, it is not even the first solution.
That's the second solution.
Segregation, I think, is a tragedy in the sense I think it should be constitutionally allowed.
So, legally, I don't think there should be any law against it because that erodes freedoms.
So, I think it's in a legal sense perfectly permissible.
In terms of a biblical moral sense, I'm first advocating as a Christian minister for justice, swift penalties to those who commit crimes.
But, secondly, if that won't happen as a second measure, then the citizens having to take it into their own hands, my prayer then as a Christian minister is please don't let it be vigilanteism.
And please don't let it be violence.
Please let it be peaceful, kind, compassionate, merciful decisions where individuals self segregate.
Again, not option one.
Option one is let justice flow from the civil magistrate.
Option two, if the citizens have to act because our civil fathers refuse, let it be peaceful instead of violent.
But if neither of these mechanisms kick in, if the civil magistrate doesn't start punishing those who are wicked and And if everyone says, even if it's legal and constitutional, but there's so much flack,
and you go viral and get major news stations making you out to look like a monster, and that ultimately inhibits people from the citizens' peaceful solution if the civil fathers won't act, which is to peacefully voluntarily segregate.
If neither of these kick in, the civil magistrate enacting justice or the citizens, because of the absence of that, self segregating, then you get to the third category.
Historically speaking, this is what happens.
And the third category is now there actually is a race war.
And I don't want that.
Right.
I don't want that.
Okay.
So, good comment from that super chat with Ignig Manius.
Ignig Manius.
Manius.
Good comment.
And I agree with that observation.
And I don't think he, and certainly not us, are prescribing, but simply describing what will happen if we don't repent and do what's right.
Okay.
I'm going to read two comments that are kind of right along the same line.
I'll read the super comment first, and then Nathan, I'll read Michael's.
Mine eyes have seen the glory, a reference to an old hymn.
$10 super chat, thank you, whoever you are.
They said this not against an intentional community, but I feel uneasy about a big tent, including practicing pagans.
Paganism is poison, and those who place a greater emphasis on race over religion are so backwards, capitalizing so.
And then Michael Anderson commented kind of the same observation, question.
Outside of freedom of association, What do you think about how Return to the Land, their logo, is based on North mythology?
It's kind of like a rune if you look at it.
It's kind of obscure, but I think he's referencing the origin of it there.
Seems like they are far more pagan than they make it seem.
I think we both completely agree.
I will say, for one, I don't really want a pagan to be my neighbor.
Like, if you're like, oh, here's your options, you know, a Hindu or a pagan.
Neither.
Don't really love either one of those.
Neither.
Any advantages that you would have from it, probably be kind of marginally better.
So, definitely agreed.
We agree with both of these posts.
We don't want the Hindu or the Muslim or the pagan.
We want Christian communities.
That said, though, and I think this is probably what you're going to say.
That said, if this is a hypothetical situation, which is not the case, we should have the freedom of association.
You shouldn't be forced with, you know, I only have two options.
That's the whole point.
But if you were forced, If I was forced, I'll speak for myself and then Wes can comment.
But if I was forced and they said, you have to live next to a pagan who worships Thor or a Muslim who worships Allah, I wouldn't like either of those options religiously.
But then, as a husband and father, I would then probably visit the FBI's website and look at okay, so religiously, they both suck.
Okay, now let's look ethnically.
Which one statistically is more likely to kill my family?
Right.
And in that case, You know what?
Now, again, the answer is neither.
But in a hypothetical where I'm forced to choose one, if the pagan neighbor is white and statistically has a 0.00001% chance of committing some kind of crime against my children,
and the other individual is a Muslim from some Middle Eastern country that was imported over here by my wicked civil rulers three weeks ago, And I can look at that country, his country of origin, and see the statistics of crimes, particularly violent crimes, and it's exponentially higher.
Well, then I think you know my answer.
Right.
Pagan Tribes Converting to Christianity00:04:31
And the greatest Norse pagan tradition is converting to Christianity.
Yeah.
Literally, like it's the sixth, eighth century.
Yeah.
Like by about that time, most of the Germanic tribes, a little bit less so in the north, they had generally converted to Christianity about six to 800 years, or even less, really, from Christianity arriving there.
So, even as talking about fertile ground, like conversion of Muslims, well, that did not go so well during the Crusades.
We had to break out the swords.
The pagans, we conquered them, but they were actually pretty receptive.
They did.
Even as far as receptive soil for the gospel and being a neighborly witness, in that hypothetical, I think one is clearly even just going to be more accepting.
Yeah, and there is historic precedence.
Now, this doesn't necessarily mean in all times and all places, right?
So, I don't mean that this is fatalistic, deterministic for all time.
But historically speaking, at the times that revival happened, we can look and say that there were certain soils, certain ground that was more fertile for the Christian gospel.
And then there were other contexts that were less fertile.
Islamic nations historically were far more obstinate to the Christian gospel.
Whereas these pagan societies that were equally lost until the gospel came, they were going to die and go to hell just like the Muslims.
But when the gospel did come, I think of even Saint Boniface.
Was it the Germanics, Saxons?
Yeah, it was like the 8th century out there in modern day.
He comes in and they're worshiping Thor and Odin and all the rest.
And they have this sacred tree.
You guys, many of you know the story, but it's fantastic.
And I can't help myself but be a little bit of a storyteller.
Sacred tree, and that it's, you know, it's a religious symbol.
I think so.
It's the Jupiter.
Yeah, I want to say that.
I think so.
Yep.
And so no one is allowed in their village, in their community, to even touch the tree or go near the tree because they would be struck dead by Jupiter, by.
You know, one of the false gods that they worship.
And Boniface comes in with the Christian gospel as a Christian man, and he says, These are false gods, and they have no real power, at least either at all, or like Paul, who says, an idol is no god at all, or even if they were fallen angels, that power has been drastically limited and suppressed by the finished work of Christ.
And so, comparatively, they have no power, comparatively speaking.
And the Christian God, the triune God, is the true God, and he has much greater power.
And so he says, I'm going to come, you know, this time tomorrow and I'm going to chop, not, I'm not just going to touch the tree, I'm going to chop it down.
And legend has it that he comes with his axe.
And within, I think it was the first swing, that a great wind from heaven, not only was there not a bolt from Thor that strikes Boniface and kills him, quite to the contrary, there was a wind from heaven when he swung his axe that in one swing, I believe, the whole tree, a mighty oak, was ripped up by the root and thrown down.
And the entire village community, They didn't say, kill Boniface.
He just dishonored our gods.
No, they said, there was no God at all.
The triune God, Jesus Christ is king.
Jesus is God.
And they actually used the wood from this mighty oak tree and built on that exact spot where the tree used to stand the first chapel, Christian church to worship the triune God.
Amazing story.
So there's a rich heritage, back to your point, Wes, a rich tradition.
Probably the most common tradition for pagans is converting to Christianity.
But then, secondly, to make that other point that we were making is that historically speaking, European tribes that worshiped pagan deities did pan out again, utterly lost before they were converted and saved.
But they were a much more conducive, fertile soil.
Paganism, this is just a historic fact.
You can like it or not, but in terms of historically speaking, from observation, paganism.
Has proven historically to be far more conducive with conversion to Christianity than Islam.
Yeah, a number of the Eastern religions, whether it be Hinduism, Buddhism, a type of kind of ancestor worship that you have in China, those have all been pretty resistant.
I'm not aware of any country at scale that is majority, 80, 90% Christian, the way a lot of Westerns are Christian.
Although it's not the way a lot of Westerns are Christian.
Judaism is also very obstinate to conversion to Christianity.
Historical Context of Slavery and Trade00:12:50
Yep.
So those have just been, they have not been the places where the Gospels come in.
And again, we're talking in.
Just a couple hundred years in the West, Christianity was the norm, and it's been, I think, over millennia in many cases still in the East that is still attempting to take root.
Didn't help that we bombed the two most Christian cities in Japan with nukes, though.
Does not help Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Like, what's the story?
Japan literally didn't they say to one of our generals, We will convert as a nation?
I looked into that, I don't think the claim was as clear as that.
The problem was the U.S. was forcing a very hard line on unconditional surrender to the point of replacing the emperor, and so Japan, a culture grounded in.
A monarch, an emperor, and the U.S. is saying, We will not have any of your surrender, no terms, unconditional.
We're going to replace your emperor.
You're saying the U.S. was going to force a regime change?
We were bullying them.
On the other side of the world?
The U.S. was going to force a regime change in a nation on the other side of the world?
That doesn't sound like us.
They're a tale as old as time.
That's an every single time situation.
Like Nagasaki and Hiroshima, they were the most Christian cities at the time in Japan.
Now, I don't think we literally intentionally bombed them because of that, right?
In totality.
That was the only factor.
Yep.
Lord knows it did not help.
I'm going to read one more comment and then Joel will give it to you to the last two.
Okay.
All right.
Jason, glasses needs coming in again.
Is that Jason Jay?
Jason Jay underscore the seventh.
Jason Jay the 7th, 499.
Thank you, Jason.
Would it have been better to have never, to never bring blacks over, keep them enslaved, or train them before releasing them from slavery?
Well, first of all, we have to say who actually brought them over.
In large part, Jews.
A lot, and it was through financing.
So if you think about it, if you finance a ship and you finance a crew, the slave trade was financed.
Exactly.
Yeah.
And you captured, say, 400 slaves, and then you took them, you sold them at this markup.
I mean, you're looking at tens of thousands of percent return.
So that's why a lot of Jews invested in the slave trade.
And so.
Like Virginia, literally, you can read Dabney's writings.
Virginia never imported a single slave.
It was not Anglo Saxon Protestants that were sailing the seas, like, yes, we can find black people.
They were brought over here and it was a trade.
I do think it would have been better if that had just never happened.
The slave trade, in many ways, the conditions, especially, they were iniquitous.
It was sinful.
It was brutal.
There was such a disregard for life.
Dabney believed in race.
Dabney even wanted to keep slaves as slaves and believe that it was moral and that it was biblically permissible, which it is.
And that it would actually be not just in the best interest of whites, but also blacks.
And yet, that same Dabney, just to set the record straight, detested the slave trade.
There's a distinction.
So he thought that the slave trade was absolutely immoral and that it needed to stop.
And for those who are in the theonomous camp that may be listening, because I've done a bit of dabbling on this issue, they would say, well, the Levitical law or Exodus, I believe it's Exodus, maybe chapter 21, that says that it's not just the one who man steals, right?
So kidnapping.
Going and stealing a man to enslave him.
It's not just the man stealer, but anyone found in possession of him.
So, those, you know, because arguments, I've made these arguments and they're true.
But like that, we did not, we were not going into the jungles of Africa, into the brush, you know, and, you know, with human sized nets and capturing blacks, you know, and then taking them over.
No, they were lined up on the shore by their own people or another black tribe, you know, that had conquered them and being sold.
And that is different.
That said, It is true that the scripture says it's not just the one who steals the man, but the one who also is found in possession.
Dabney's argument, you correct me if I'm wrong, Wes, but his argument is but what do you do when it's not just one degree of separation, right?
The one who steals and then the one who initially buys, but you're now 13, 14, 15 degrees of separation in and generations in.
These people don't even speak their native tongue anymore.
They only speak English and they've been Christianized and catechized and they're going to.
Church right alongside their master and taking the Lord's Supper with their master.
They've been catechized and discipled.
They are God fearing Christians.
They only speak the king's tongue, you know, they only speak English.
And you don't even know which particular section of Africa or what nation they're even from if you drop them off.
And there were individuals in America who advocated for that solution.
We should just drop them randomly off.
In many cases, they would have been a thousand or a couple thousand miles from our country.
The great anti racist himself, Abraham Lincoln.
Abraham Lincoln, who, you know, and Wes is being sarcastic there.
Who was a notable white supremacist very clearly in his rhetoric?
And he was saying, Yes, let's end slavery.
But his solution, right?
So people say, Oh, he's a great champion for social justice.
And look at how compassionate he wanted to put all the blacks on boats and drop them off in a random part of Africa that could have been thousands of miles from their home with people who are now multiple generations into America's all they've known.
They're Christians.
They don't worship these African tribal deities and they don't even speak the language.
And he wants to do that.
And guys like Dabney, Christian ministers, they're saying, no, that is actually unbiblical and wrong.
There are enough degrees of separation to where the Levitical code and Mosaic code in Exodus and Leviticus no longer applies.
It is not a sin to be in possession of this individual.
So then, what is the biblical onus for Christian masters?
It's to treat these slaves with kindness, dignity, respect, right?
Ephesians 6, well, I'm sorry, 5, I believe, speaks to this slaves and masters.
Right, that mass slaves should work heartily as unto the Lord, not mere eye service, just when the master is watching, but they should do their work for their master, but as unto the Lord.
And the master should treat the slave with respect, not being abusive, and making provision.
The slave would be a dependent, just like my children.
I am responsible to clothe them, to feed them, to give them shelter.
And a good biblical master, if he's a good God fearing Christian man, would need to provide good accommodations and quarters for slaves.
And meals, good meals, healthy, nutritious meals, and only exact some form of discipline, which certainly there could be a debate about that, but when it's actually justifiable, when the slave is being rebellious.
And so this is what, you know, Dabney was advocating for.
And I understand for, you know, any liberal who's listening to this, they're like, oh my gosh, I can't believe the words that are coming out of this man's mouth.
Yeah, you didn't live then.
You are a product of your place and time.
You didn't live then.
You are not trying to answer this very pertinent question.
But all the way back, speaking of the question to the original question that the viewer sent in to us, what would have been better if we could turn back the clock?
Yeah, I think it would have been better if we had never taken slaves.
That's my opinion.
We should have never taken slaves.
And the Jews who were financing the Atlantic slave trade, we should have said, you keep that Jewish business to yourself.
No, thank you.
No, thank you.
And we're going to work hard and we're going to settle this country and we're not going to take any slaves.
And so, a lot of what we're dealing with now, here's the reality.
There is such a thing as the father's sin and the son's bearing that iniquity.
There is something to be said for that.
And there are many things.
We see this not just as nations, but in our individual households.
There's something to be said for covenant.
And the father is a covenantal, a federal head.
And if the father is letting down his spiritual guard and living in spiritual apathy, he's looking at pornography and he's not being a good Christian man, he's not catechizing his children, he's not washing his wife in the word, he's not doing all these kinds of things.
There will be consequences that pass down generationally.
That's just an undeniable fact of the world that God built and the world that we live in, in reality, not just a spiritual reality, but we see that at every level.
We see the physical implications of this man's sin and the way that it affects his children.
My dad was an alcoholic.
And so now I struggle with, like, that's there's so much written evidence to support that principle.
And so, likewise, yes, I believe that the Civil War, Was a consequence of some bad early on decisions pertaining to slavery.
And I believe that even some of the, it's a cold war now, praise God.
I hope it never becomes hot.
I hope it never heats up.
But the cold racial relations that are not great right now that we're experiencing, I think also likewise are generationally passed down consequences for prior mistakes.
So, yes, if I could go back in time and if I was in charge, then no, we would not have taken slaves from other nations.
And And built the country through that means.
You found a lot more efficient way once slavery was ended to harvest cotton.
Like it wasn't even like this, there's this barrier.
We'll never get over it.
We'll never be able to do it.
Made the manpower.
Oh, the cotton gin.
And that's such a great point because that's so pertinent even for us today.
We look at certain evils in the world and they just feel like giants.
It just feels like how will you ever beat, you know, BlackRock or George Soros or Zionism or what, you know, you name it or Islam.
Like, I mean, there's a lot.
They come in different stripes and different colors, but there are some powerful, whether it be individuals or entities, whatever it is, there are powerful, powerful groups and vices.
Ideologies in our world today that sometimes, if we're not careful to be self controlled, we can despair.
And Christians are not allowed, we're not permitted to despair.
But we can despair, give in to despair, and say, we'll never be able to beat this.
And you don't know, you simply don't know what might be in the providence of God right around the corner in terms of spiritual revival, mass conversions.
That's possible, the spirit could move.
But also, even if that didn't happen because God in sovereignty decided not to, there are also, like what Wes just cited, There are certain, not just in the spiritual category, but in more practical categories of technological innovation and this, that, and the other that can happen.
So we can't get rid of the slaves.
Who's going to pick the cotton, cotton gin?
We can't get rid of all these immigrants.
Who's going to work on the farms?
And, well, I don't know, maybe Tesla robots.
I don't know.
But whatever it is, God has done it before.
He can do it again.
Yeah.
Okay.
Go ahead.
Which one are we on?
White Hebrew Israelite.
White Hebrew Israelite.
Don't like the name.
But you know what?
We'll humor you and give it a try.
$5.
We appreciate that.
Thanks for your generosity.
He says, or she says, both Jews and Greeks are subhumans.
Yep.
It's matching the name, White Hebrew Israelite.
You're not disappointing.
Germanic people have nothing in common with them.
Well, I think from an ethnic standpoint, that is true that Germanic people would be distinct from Jews and Greeks.
That's true.
Although, isn't there some trajectory of Greeks into.
Some European tribes and Germanics and things like that.
There's some crossover.
I don't think it's very strong, though.
Okay.
There's definitely a lot of distinction.
So, okay.
So, yeah.
So, we agree that there are different ethnicities, different races of men, and that they actually are distinct and in a temporal human sense, and even in some sense genetically, very distinct and without overlap.
Probably would have worded that comment differently, but thanks for tuning in and thanks for your generosity.
We appreciate it.
Okay, next one.
JD Peabody.
Peabody, $5.
Thanks so much.
Outstanding stuff, gentlemen.
Thanks for the support.
Really appreciate it.
I think this is the last one.
Marcus Harrison, $5 from Marcus.
Thanks, Marcus.
God bless you, brothers.
Have any of you guys read Color, Race, and Communism by Manning Johnson?
It is a must read.
It's actually Color, Race, and Common Sense.
I think he made the update to it.
Communism.
Common Sense.
Yeah, those are different.
I was going to say communism.
Communism is strictly against common sense.
Yeah, Leon Trotsky is one of the early users of a word in Russian that would translate to racism.
The other early user was, I'm blanking on his name, but it was literally the guy, Magnus Hirschfeld, who completed some of the first transgender surgeries.
And he wrote a book on racism.
And the first kind of English appearance of that word in 1938 came from a gay Jewish sexologist who insisted that racism was this terrible sin.
Season Three Broadcast Wrap Up00:02:27
Every single time.
Every single time.
But to the point, color, race, communism, very close relationship there of insisting that racism is a sin, not necessarily a biblical sin.
Kind of backing to it.
I see.
Or origin.
All right.
Well, great comments.
Most of them.
Most of them were great comments.
Good insights, good questions.
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