Scott Horton joins the live stream to dissect how Epstein files threaten the MAGA movement, arguing Trump distanced himself while Mossad protected its "psionym" asset. The discussion exposes decades of U.S.-Israel collusion, claiming the 2003 Iraq invasion was a Likud plot to isolate Iran that backfired by empowering ISIS. Horton alleges Netanyahu intentionally supported Hamas to block Palestinian statehood, citing treasonous admissions and false narratives about IEDs. Ultimately, the episode demands accountability for intelligence corruption, foreign lobby registration, and new Israeli elections to end this destabilizing geopolitical strategy. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
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Why We Left Google00:14:40
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We're doing an episode today live on Facebook.
Epstein.
This is the talk of the town.
This is a story that's not simply going to be swept under the rug.
It's not going to go away as much as the powers that be want it to go away.
And it seems to have the potential to even fracture and break up, it already is in many ways, the MAGA movement.
There are people who love Donald Trump and are not going to give him a pass when it comes to this issue.
So we're going to talk about the problem and the unavoidable reality of a two tier justice system.
And we're also going to talk about a larger ongoing problem that has, well, it has its legs going all the way back through decades of history, which is the problem with our relationship with Israel.
We know that this works into the mix, and this is becoming a massive problem that people are noticing, as the kids say.
And it's at the point where it's not going to go away, people are not going to stop noticing.
So these are the conversations that we're going to have in this episode today.
We have invited in the studio live today special guest Scott Horton.
You may recognize him if you're a Tucker Carlson fan.
He recently was on the Tucker Carlson show just about a week, week and a half ago.
And so he's going to be joining us to help us with some of the history between the relationship with America and Israel.
This episode is brought to you by our premier sponsors, Armored Republic and Reese Fund, as well as our Patreon members and our generous donors.
If you'd like to join our Patreon, you can go to patreon.com forward slash right response.
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Let's tune in.
All right, here we are.
Here we are.
We're talking about Epstein.
We're talking about Israel.
And like I said, in the Cold Open, we have Scott Horton who's joining us today.
Scott, would you introduce yourself for the listener?
Sure.
Thank you both very much for having me.
Good to be here with you.
I'm basically just a Ron Paul libertarian, anti government type from here in Central Texas, from Austin.
And I've been a libertarian since I was a kid.
And I've been editorial director of antiwar.com for a lot of years now.
And I'm the founder and director of the Libertarian Institute.
I'm the host of the Scott Horton Show.
I've done 6,000 something interviews, almost 6,200, I think, since 2003.
And I wrote some books, including Fool's Errand about Afghanistan, Enough Already About the Terror Wars, and Provoked about the Cold War with Russia and the war in Ukraine.
Great.
How can people follow you?
What's the name of the show?
The Scott Horton Show.
Okay, Scott Horton Show.
You just launched a new one, though, correct?
That's right.
I have a brand new show out with the great Darrell Cooper, the most important historian in America, according to Tucker Carlson.
I think I agree.
Who's a good friend of mine?
And the show is called Provoked.
He named it that, not me, but that's the name of the book.
And then also the new show.
Cool.
And we're three episodes in.
And so far, it's just me interviewing him about stuff, but we'll see how it goes.
Great.
We definitely have a lot to talk about.
And I'm sort of, I've been putting my own show a bit on the back burner, but I just started really getting back into the swing of things, doing interviews again.
And that's all at scotthorton.org and at my sub stack, scotthortonshow.com.
And in fact, for people who go there, I have the first three chapters.
The first three sections, I guess, the first two chapters of the audiobook of my latest book, Provoked.
Cool.
I'm still working on the rest of that.
Great.
Well, you picked a bad time.
There's just not much going on.
What are you going to talk?
Right?
Think about it.
Seriously.
Yeah.
So we were thinking for this episode, we usually break it up into three segments.
Our final segment for those who are watching live, if you want to put it in the chat, whether you're watching us on X or on YouTube, just for new guys who are tuning in, we live stream simultaneously on both X and YouTube.
And if you want to follow us on X, the handle is at right response M, the letter N. At right response M on YouTube, make sure to subscribe and click the bell.
But even now, if you want to start syncing up some questions, just make it clear.
If you're watching live in the chat, just say question and then give us some questions.
Third segment, we'll do our best to deal with some of the questions, especially the super chats, making sure to prioritize those.
In the third segment, first segment, we're going to talk about Epstein and we're going to get Scott's hot take and just kind of 30,000 foot view and what he thinks is going on.
A lot of stuff that you know for our audience and those of you guys who are tuning in for Wes and I personally.
We'll probably all be on the same page.
A lot of it is not rocket science.
It's not rocket surgery.
It's some stuff that's just kind of undeniable and pretty clear for any guy who's got common sense.
But we'll talk about that and see if we can get into it a little bit.
But second segment, we really want to spend time backing up and say, how did we, you know, putting Epstein aside for a moment, how did we get here, right?
This isn't just a one off, you know, fluke.
This isn't just like, oh my goodness, maybe we had somebody working with Israeli intelligence that, you know, was.
Blackmailing politicians here in America, like maybe Israel for the first time in all of history, was, you know, didn't have our best interests at heart.
Now, the reality is that this has been a toxic relationship stretching back decades.
And that's where Scott really shines and where a lot of his work has been done.
And so the second segment will be longer and giving Scott ample time to get into some of the history.
So, starting here in the first segment, making it, you know, about the topic of the day that everybody's talking about, what's your hot take?
What do you think is going on with Epstein?
Well, I'll say, first of all, my impression is that despite some, you know, kind of surface level evidences that I think people maybe run with, I don't really have any reason to believe that Trump personally was ever compromised by Jeffrey Epstein.
Clearly, Trump is a womanizer, but a little girlizer.
I don't think that is probably like within his taste.
And I know that he years ago had banned Epstein from Mar a Lago.
For, I don't know all the details, but I guess hitting on a young daughter of one of the members of the club there, kicked him out of there.
And then, allegedly, when the FBI was interested in Epstein, they interviewed Trump about him.
And he just went down there and threw the guy under the bus, didn't bring a lawyer, didn't act like he was worried about being implicated in any way, and just went down there.
And on the other hand, he did kind of wish Epstein's girlfriend well when she was on her way to prison.
Like, hey, lady, let's ex-Nay on the things you know, eh?
So, like, I don't know exactly, you know, what is all behind that.
But of course, you know, he's a New York billionaire and he's been around and certainly likes to cheat on even his supermodel wives when he feels like it.
So, you know, could there be something embarrassing there regarding him personally, potentially?
But I don't really get that feeling.
I think what it is, is it's about Israel, as you said in your introduction there, that we know that Alex Acosta, who was the federal prosecutor in Florida, Said that he was told that this guy belongs to intelligence, so leave him alone.
And that was part of how he got this real sweetheart deal where anyone even associated with him was given immunity, where he was allowed to do like work release, you know, from the local jail and under the nicest, you know, cushiest circumstances of any plea deal anybody ever got, kind of thing.
And then from there, apparently, continued on doing the same thing in New York and then had his giant ranch out west in New Mexico.
Famously and infamously, and like out of a novel, right?
It's a private island in the Virgin Islands.
Apparently, now there's more than one island, little and major, or whatever they were called, St. John's Islands there.
And, you know, it's obviously such a captivating story because you don't have to be politically sophisticated to understand.
The basics of it.
I compare it to Joe Biden's senility, right?
We're like, your auntie's next door neighbor knows he's just too old for this, right?
You can just take one look at him, right?
It's the same kind of thing here, where maybe it's a little bit more complicated than that, but this guy was allowed to get away with abusing children for decades while the national government's Justice Department under Janet Reno and everybody after her did nothing to stop it, or very little, at least to stop it.
Protected him when he did get in like undeniable trouble where they started pursuing a case, it was quashed basically, and he was allowed to get off essentially free.
Um, and uh, and so everybody wants to know why.
And then, according to the federal prosecutor himself, it was because he was told this guy is a government asset.
And so, now when he says belongs to intelligence, that's his quote of someone else.
We don't know exactly what he was told, but we know that's what he said.
Now, typically, you would take that to mean he belongs to the agency, the American CIA.
But then again, it might just raise questions about how much overlap there is between the CIA and the Mossad after all, if you want to take that angle on it.
Because there does seem to be a lot of real connections with Israeli intelligence, including his girlfriend, Ghislaine Maxwell, or have you say that correctly?
I only ever read it and haven't heard people say it very much.
But her father was a notorious Mossad asset agent.
People might remember if they saw the Tetris movie.
He's the guy in there trying to get the rights to Tetris that they're fighting with, the protagonists are fighting with.
Anyway, and by the way, funny little coincidence, it was Biden's Secretary of State, Antony Blinken's stepfather, was the last guy to see him alive before he somehow stepped off a boat in the middle of the ocean.
These things happen.
But anyway, and then he's tied very closely with Leslie Wexner, who was from The Limited and some of these other companies that were more famous back then.
Was apparently a zillionaire and gave this guy power of attorney and access to unlimited funds.
It doesn't make any sense.
It seemed like a simple explanation would be that he blackmailed him, right?
That he got the guy late and then he went, ha ha, I got you.
And now you belong to me and you got to do all this for me.
Although he sure kept him close after that.
Seems like maybe could have just had the guy killed.
You know, I don't know.
It's hard to say exactly what his relationship there was, but his entire career seems to be very odd where he taught at this school.
Where it turns out future Attorney General Bill Barr's father was the guy in charge.
And according to Daryl Cooper, he had written some weird novel that had a bunch of child sex type things in it and whatever.
So there's like a parent connection there.
And then he went from there to Bear Stearns and then just kept getting, he got kicked out of there for breaking the law, but then just kept failing upward and becomes supposedly a financial advisor to billionaires.
Except I'm pretty sure it was in the Netflix documentary they did where they show, they at least paraphrase, I forget if they show, but.
I'm pretty sure it was in there where they at least paraphrase these guys, where they say, There's a very small community of financial planners for billionaires in the world, and they all know each other, and none of them know this guy.
He's not a financial planner for billionaires.
You know what I mean?
They're all like members of one pretty small clique.
And it was always mysterious where he got his money from.
And then I think we don't have anything like a real understanding of how many people were compromised by this guy.
For example, I just saw from Wired Magazine the other day.
They went and there's this company called Near where you ask them.
I don't know if you have to ask them beforehand or only after to start surveilling an area or if they just collect all this data from everywhere, but they have cell phone location data from, I think, years worth of visitors to his island, Little St. James, whatever.
I said it wrong.
I said Little St. John's a minute ago, didn't I?
I meant Little St. James.
Said all these people, and then so Wired didn't release their names because they're like, We don't know who all these people are, how guilty they are, or aren't in any of this.
So, we're not saying that, but we are saying here's where they all came from, including some of them from central Texas and including people from you know, fancy pants places like Aspen and Martha's Vineyard and all these type places that you would expect.
But then we're talking at least thousands, at least high hundreds and hundreds of flights of people, and then they track them to the local harbor where then they take the boat over, they take the helicopter over.
And even here, these people are hanging out at that weird white and blue temple.
And these people are hanging out at the other side of the island.
Like the data is that specific.
So, you can see, and they're just boy, it looks like a lot of American elites were going there.
And then, as Cindy McCain said, we all knew what he was doing.
So, in other words, apparently, the idea was the word was you go to this island, not because it's a fun place to just go party in the Caribbean, you go there because this guy has his own island where there's no law and you can get away with committing terrible crimes.
It seems to convince you.
The Cost of Silence00:14:04
Yeah, that's right.
As Daryl said, look, it was like the.
People in the know, not the general public, but the elite public that named his plane the Lolita Express.
Again, Cindy McCain, John McCain's wife.
So we all knew what he was doing.
And that name is from a famous pedophilic novel, just like to kind of draw the connection.
Right, right, right.
He's named after something very scandalous, perverse, wicked.
And that's what his plane was named.
People flew on it.
Yep.
And everybody knew about it.
As Daryl said, if somebody buys you on their private plane and then all of a sudden there's underage girls in their underwear, you're going to do something.
You know, if not fistfight, you're gonna call a sheriff, you're gonna file a lawsuit, you're gonna take an incriminating like photo of this guy to turn over to the police when the plane lands, or you're gonna do something, you know, do something.
You're not just gonna say, Well, I guess that's just how these guys roll, or whatever, you know what I mean?
But if you're Bill Clinton, at the very least, he's palling around with people like this, and we know that Bill Clinton is a brutal rapist from what he did to Juanita Broderick and presumably others, he's been accused of.
Attempting to force himself on others many times, but he savagely raped Juanita Broderick.
We know that.
So, like, what line would he not cross?
Like, I don't think George W. Bush, he might kill a million people, but I don't think he would actually like hold somebody down and rape them.
But Bill Clinton would.
Absolutely, he would.
So, and I could even see him telling the Israelis, fine, you got me.
Just keep them coming.
You know, like, he doesn't care.
Right.
A man has no soul.
So, I think that's the frustration of MAGA was Trump, especially in 2016, he was the anti establishment candidate.
Drain the swamp.
We're sick of politicians.
Who knows what they're doing?
Who knows who they're hanging out with?
Who knows where the money comes from, from the people that they spend time with?
And we, the American public, who these people are supposed to answer to, we're sick of it.
And so the reversal now to 2024 and 2025, just in eight years of going from drain the swamp to there is no swamp to drain at all, at least in this kind of narrow definition, that's why people are furious.
We demand, even if the answers are benign, everything you cited right there is just, it's objectively verifiable.
We have all this on witness, all this on record, all of it's true.
At the very least, even if the answer is benign, give the answer then.
You should have nothing to fear.
But when you refuse to now insist there's nothing even to be aware of, and then turn around and say to us, You're the problem for asking about this.
That's what makes people go, Hang on, I voted too.
As Trump promised on the campaign trail, I voted for the release of the Epstein list, not for you to turn around and tell me it doesn't exist.
It was corrupted.
It was destroyed.
Sorry, nothing I can do about it.
Especially when, and look, Trump used to say this sometimes, so it's not outside of his attention.
He used to talk explicitly this way.
The whole charm of Trump is supposed to be.
That he is filthy, stinking rich, and he's in his late 70s.
He already won and he's already retired.
And he's only doing this now, being like the temporary steward of the American system in order to help right our broken ship.
And that he has the money that he can't be bribed.
He doesn't need to be bribed.
He told the donors in 2016, I don't need your money.
I got plenty myself.
But then he realized, oh, you know what?
The Republican Party is going to need their money though.
Like all those state and Senate, uh, state house and Senate races out there, all those judgeships, all those governors, all those 435 members of the U.S. House, or you know, hopefully more than half of them Republican, right?
Like they're gonna need the money, and even when he's gone, they're gonna need the money.
So, just how badly can he stab the establishment in the back?
But the thing is, like, he never was a governor, a senator, or vice president, he has a plausible claim.
Even now, although he has been president before, but he certainly then had a plausible claim of like, none of this is my fault.
I just got here.
Yeah.
And you all elected me because you rejected a Clinton and a Bush in the same year and put me in instead.
Obviously, you want me to kick their ass for you.
And so that's what I'm here to do.
And of course, they bogged him down with all their fake accusations of treason with the Russiagate thing.
But it's still the case that his great grandchildren are set for life.
He has nothing to lose.
Right.
And they can afford security for the rest of their lives on the top of their skyscrapers.
For the rest of their lives.
So they're more than set for life.
They're set as kings for life.
Okay.
So he could afford to tell them all go to hell, right?
And do whatever he wants.
But this is what he wants.
And it's clearly to protect the people involved, which again, I said, I don't get the idea that he's worried about his own name being in there.
I don't think there's any reason to believe he ever went to the island or any of those things.
You know, he did pal around with the guy for a time back when.
But again, I don't.
Doesn't seem like there's much there, but look, Ehud Barak lived with the guy, you know, and was on a regular tour there, yeah.
And and and Prince Andrew of Great Britain, and uh, you know, uh, again, like I don't think we know the names of all of the different uh, most powerful bankers, and celebrities, and businessmen, and academics, and scientists, and whatever.
Leon Black was a big one, of course.
Um, but look, it only makes sense, of course, that.
Intelligence agencies of every description would be doing stuff like this.
Which Democrat congressman was it out in California?
Was it Adam Schiff that was dating the Chinese spy lady?
Yeah.
Right.
And like, of course they sent a hot lady to seduce him and get secrets out of him.
Right.
Like, yeah, men like hot women.
So that's an easy entry.
Money also works.
Right.
Like, what?
Or I got pictures of you crossing a line and now you're going to do what I say, buddy boy.
That works perfectly well.
This is like, You know, the third oldest profession, right?
This is like what it means to be in the intelligence business, is compromising people.
And so there's clearly a lot unknown about exactly who he was working for.
But again, like Lex Wexner was part of this mega group of the civilian airs who donate to American politicians to keep America on track for Israel.
So whether he's an outright agent, he's probably not any kind of Assad agent.
He's what they call like a psionym, right?
Which is like an asset of the Israeli government.
Operating on their behalf in the United States.
And then this is Epstein's greatest patron of all.
So that's a big, a good place to start.
In fact, I believe it was Ryan Dawson, who's a real expert on this, who pointed out, I think it was him who pointed out that if you watch the Netflix documentary about all this, one of the young victims painted this big mural of all the people involved in all of this.
And Epstein, if I remember right, is like his head is.
Floating in a flying saucer, kind of off to the side in the corner.
In the center of it all is Leslie Wexner.
And he's like portrayed as the center of the thing.
But then they don't ask follow up questions about that.
You know what I mean?
They don't say, well, that's weird.
Like, what's the implication of that in your painting there?
It was just kind of left for you to wonder about.
But one of the crazier things.
It's like it was a big operation that he was only a small part of, right?
Yeah.
One of the crazier things was they found, I think during the first raid, a passport with, it wasn't his name, but it was his picture that was well traveled.
Now, I don't know about you guys, but I don't happen to have a passport with a fake name that I've traveled around the world with.
So, there's all these details like this that you're like, could we have an explanation for this?
Why was this guy having passport?
Who was he traveling with and what was he doing for them?
Well, and in fact, they said that the whole place in Manhattan, which was like the nicest private residence in all of Manhattan, the most expensive one that was just given to him by Wexner, apparently, or given to him to use at least.
And they said the whole thing was wired for video and sound.
And then they showed like tubs full of CD ROMs and all kinds of, you know, whatever, thumb drives or whatever it was.
Maybe we were leaping to conclusions, but the obvious implication was he was recording everybody in there.
He wasn't just recording himself, he was recording his elite clientele and then was compromising them and had them, you know, and they must have known it and kept coming back anyway.
I don't know.
And now they go, no, that was actually just stuff he had downloaded off the internet.
So, I mean, you don't want to watch it, do you?
We can't show you that stuff.
That was his music collection.
Right.
Yeah.
Or, no, they say it was, you know, Quadruple X rated stuff, but that it wasn't anyone recorded there locally.
It was just stuff that, you know, he was into personally that didn't implicate any other powerful people.
Which, so, you know what?
That doesn't sound right to me.
You know, it sounds like they're lying about that.
Yeah.
So, if Trump's not protecting himself, and I'm with you, I don't think, you know, on the one hand, I feel like with all the attempts to, you know, disenfranchise and discredit Trump, if there was a smoking gun, they would have used it.
And so it doesn't seem like he's trying to protect himself, but he's trying to protect someone.
So, like, what do you think it's just American politicians that he's friends with that are implicated by this?
Or do you think he's trying to protect Israel?
What's the transnational elite?
You know, a lot of dual citizens and a lot of people who are just, you know, very friendly with both sides.
Way too many powerful people.
That's the obvious answer, right?
You look at that wired heat map of all these cell phones traveling there, and you go, oh, wow.
So.
I guess they were just going there to get drunk and have a fun weekend.
Right.
Or there's really something worth covering up here.
And it sure seems a lot like the latter.
And for Trump to say, oh, this is just like the Russiagate hoax.
Geez, no, no, I don't think that.
And the Russiagate hoax was clearly led by the CIA and the FBI to frame him.
Clinton only got on board later and hired all these other liars to come on board and help lie and try to, you know, create predicates for further FBI investigations and the rest.
But it was clearly the CIA and the FBI that started that.
John Brennan was the one who kicked the whole thing off at the end of 2015.
And they lied about everything, right?
This is not that.
The Epstein thing is an op by the CIA and the FBI to make us falsely believe that Trump and his people are in there.
I just don't think that's the narrative going on at all here.
That is not, first of all, that's not true, but that's not the narrative that is.
Like fighting that anyone is really pushing, right?
Like, you don't even hear people who lean left who want to see those Epstein files.
You don't see a lot of them just like saying, Oh, it's got to be all about Trump here because they know it's not.
Like, even on The Daily Show, this is like in the post Jon Stewart era, which he's no good anymore, but back then he was funny.
But they had that guy Trevor Noah on and he interviewed Hillary Clinton.
And his first question for her, he says, How did you kill Jeffrey Epstein?
And she's like, ah, like she really was not ready for that.
But it was like, yeah, because everybody knows that that guy procured children for Bill Clinton to rape.
And who would be surprised if you found out that she had been involved in any of that either?
She's a degenerate scumbag, you know, criminal in a hell of a lot of ways.
I wouldn't put it past her to hurt a kid, dude.
She's a horrible person.
But certainly with Bill, you know, I don't know, man.
I see him crossing any line.
Yeah.
Certainly burn kids to death on purpose.
So, do you think we'll ever get this kind of information, intel?
Well, that's a good question, isn't it?
I kind of think maybe.
You know, I think that doesn't it?
Doesn't there feel like there's a little bit of an inevitability to it that, like, guys, you can't make this go away?
It's just too easy a one.
Like, here in a little while, I'm going to try to wedge in here an opportunity to blame the Israelis for lying us into war with Iraq.
But that's one that people just.
Aren't that interested in.
Yeah.
Probably because they bought it and they don't like remembering how guilty they are for that.
And it was a long time ago.
And this SEX is much more interesting on just the basic and on the like easier to understand level.
Like, don't get me started on the Deputy Secretary of Defense for Policy and his underlings' operation to launder all this fake intelligence into this street.
You know what I mean?
You're already bored, right?
Like, but this stuff is like, hey, this guy was allowed to get away.
With doing this, and it looks like on behalf of a foreign government, wow!
And it looks like our government is covering for that foreign government and helping them to get away with that.
And, like, you know, as I like to say about Iraq, people used to really believe in that war a lot up until they didn't anymore.
And then they were like, oh man, you know what?
I guess maybe I don't think that like I used to.
And the same thing's going to happen with Israel.
They think that they're outside of that possibility, that they're bulletproof from that.
But I just don't think so.
I think, you know, even the polls show.
Among young evangelicals, that less and less, all their admonishments that, oh, you'll go to hell if you don't serve the Lakud are just falling on deaf ears.
Like these are the same preachers who promised we'd all get raptured up to heaven if only we supported Iraq War II 25 years ago.
Propaganda and Boomers00:09:49
And then where are we now?
Got left behind with everybody else.
So, you know, either live up to your promises or stop making threats.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, I told you that, you know, before we started recording, the gravy train for Israel, it seems like it's going to end.
I don't know anybody on the left or the right who's.
Christian or non religious.
I don't know any category under the age of 45 that's like, yeah, we love Israel.
So it's kind of like a hardwired, like the boomers aren't great.
I am sympathetic in the sense that you can make an argument that they're the most propagandized generation in American history because it's like you have, in terms of innovation, you have mass wavelength ability to.
Spread news, but tightly controlled, right?
Like three channels on cable television, you know?
And so, like, and that's all there is.
So, like for us today, it's like you have to sift through the haystack to find a needle, but there is a haystack.
There's not just three channels.
So, it's like, that's totally true.
So, today, it's like we have mass media for sure, but we have like 14,000 different options.
You know, like I listen to so and so and I listen to so and so and I listen.
And that creates its own problems.
You know, that's part of why we're fractured and you don't know because we don't trust the experts because they're not trustworthy.
But then it's like, well, who do you trust?
So, everybody just has kind of, it's like, it's like almost like grunge, you know, like punk rock.
Bands where there was like, you know, in ska, you know, like back in the 90s, there's like, you know, like maybe a couple big ones, but most of them, it's like they each have like 14 fans, you know, and they play in their mom's garage, you know, and there's like 10,000 different, you know, ska bands or punk rock bands, and everybody's got like, you know, they like each one of them was able to sell six t shirts, you know, and have like their isolated fan.
And that's kind of how it is now with like with news and media and information and podcasting and all that kind of stuff.
And I'm a part of that, you know, so like I get it.
But I'm sympathetic.
My point is that, like, you know, once upon a time, it's like the herald comes through your village on behalf of the king, you know, once every blue moon and says, Hear ye, hear ye.
And then now today, like everybody listening to a million things, but there's really a brief window in human history where you have everybody's hearing the same thing every single day.
So, like, mass communication, but like three sources and they're all really.
That's how I grew up.
Yeah.
Rather, Jennings and Brokaw and Austin, American States.
Reprints everything from the New York Times the day before, and that's it.
So, my point is just to say, I think the boomers might kind of destroy the country, but I'm sympathetic in the sense that they, I mean, that's that would probably be a tough generation not to be propagandized, not to be.
Well, and you're right, too, that we've gone from a drought to a deluge where sometimes it can be real hard to decide.
Although, I think I trust in the market, man.
I think overall, even Google, YouTube algorithm rigging aside, like ultimately, people find good stuff.
And start making good choices.
So we just have all these different silos now.
Right.
And the best will win out.
I think that's true.
Yeah.
If it's not manipulated and manufactured.
I mean, you mentioned I was on the Tucker Carlson show.
And in fact, right in the aftermath of the start of the Iran war, I was at Porkfest up in New Hampshire and Al Jazeera, Al Arabiya, and the Piers Morgan show all sent vans out.
To interview me in person, and then a few, you know, I did a bunch more of like really big podcasts that same first week, and then the next week I did the Tucker Carlson show, right?
And like, never mind Tucker because Tucker's just huge, he's one of the biggest guys.
But even just Piers Morgan having me on to be one head in a box with four other shouting heads in boxes, um, man, that's unheard of.
Can you imagine in 2003 me being allowed to go on CNN or Fox and be a head in a box going, No, you're wrong, it's like this, not like that?
No way, dude.
We were just shouting in the hurricane at antiwar.com.
I was doing a little pirate radio show in South Austin, you know, and like putting my podcast out for 10,000 people, the same 10,000, I guess, still listen.
And there was just nothing like the ability to, there was no avenue to get onto CNN to get into one of those fights whatsoever.
Now Tucker's willing to sit down and go, okay, you have the floor for three hours.
Right.
Go ahead.
It's like, all right.
So that's my point.
So sympathetic to the boomers in that time.
The technology, the control, all that kind of stuff, sympathetic to them being lied to and deceived.
But my larger point is to say that, although sometimes I do feel like the boomers are going to find a way to live on the moon and harvest organs and squeeze out another 85 years of life, but barring that happening, I've been reliably assured that the boomers will eventually die and probably relatively soon, 10, 15 years.
And my point is just to say that when they're gone, who's going to be waving Israeli flags?
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
Like it's coming to a screeching halt.
Even now, I don't think we got to wait for the baby boomers to die.
I mean, just think of the cognitive dissonance behind what Jeffrey Epstein, like, I hate him.
He was raping young American girls and getting away with it for years.
But at least it was for a good cause.
My minister says that Jesus says, You got to let the Israelis rape your kids so they can compromise your senators so they can get away with bloody murder and get free weapons to kill other kids with.
Come on, your minister doesn't really think that, or if he does, he probably didn't think that hard about it.
And and it just comes to a point where it's just too blatant, right?
It's silly, right?
This case is not just like offensively horrible, but it's also like preposterous, right?
You know what I mean?
Yeah, this case is so clear that you're saying that, um, even somebody who's just diehard Zionist can't really, doesn't have a leg to stand on, yeah.
In this case, so yeah, I think you're right.
Let's uh, let's go to our first commercial break when we come back.
What we really want Scott to do, what where he excels.
Is kind of for those of you who tuned in and saw him on Tucker Carlson, going beyond the Epstein case.
This is just, you know, this is the talk of the town today, and for good reason.
It should be.
It shouldn't just go away.
The truth needs to come out.
It's a big deal.
But the larger picture of this ongoing relationship with our hashtag, you know, greatest ally, and that relationship being a little lopsided, to say the least, that's where Scott has done a lot of work.
And so we want to allow him to kind of get into a little bit of the history.
Again, if you're just now tuning in, our Our third segment, we're going to do our best to answer whatever kind of questions you guys have.
And I know for our regular listeners, the question segment, you know, towards the end is usually a free for all.
And, you know, there'll be questions related to the topic, but there'll be other questions that are just, you know, generally theological or related to some other topic based on other things that we've, you know, talked about because our show's pretty broad.
We talk about a lot of things.
But for today, because we have Scott actually with us in the studio, we're going to stick to the questions at hand.
We're going to stick to the questions that Deal with Israel and America and Epstein, the things that we're talking about in our topic today, and make sure to give Scott the priority of time and being able to answer.
So we'll go to our first commercial.
We'll come back.
We'll talk about the history between America and Israel and how that's led up to today.
And then we'll do one more commercial break at the end and we'll go to our third segment and deal with questions that pertain to this topic.
So here we go.
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All right, here we are.
So, we're going to do a little story time with Scott Horton.
We're going to do some history.
And I'm sure as we talk about this, this is something that you've spent years looking at.
So, I'm sure you could spend three hours.
But if you tried to bullet it down to, let's say, closer to a half hour, where does it start?
Israel and Al Qaeda Ties00:15:32
What are some of the highlights along the way and then leading up to where we are today, this relationship with Israel?
Well, I mean, okay.
I guess one way to frame it would be if you look at the situation over there after the 67 war.
So, this is where Israel takes possession of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip and all the people who lived there.
And then raising the question about, well, if they're going to keep the land, what are they going to do with all the people?
And then the answer is put them under totalitarian martial law and let them stay that way until they all pack up and move someday or something.
And.
The United States has always officially opposed that and always officially said that it's illegal for the Israelis, no, well, not always, Trump changed it, but it's illegal for the Israelis to move their population into these conquered territories.
They need to give them up and negotiate that territory away.
In fact, even Israel's founding prime minister, David Ben Gurion, said the same thing that this is suicide.
What are we doing?
If we, you know, when they created Israel in the first place in 48, it was criminal the way they cleansed land of the Palestinians.
But in effect, morality aside, it succeeded.
They created an 80 20 super duper majority Jewish state so they could be a Jewish democracy and have these second class citizens and the Christians and Muslims, the Christian Muslim Arabs who are still citizens of Israel officially.
But once they took over those territories, now they're like back toward 50 50, right?
And then so they can't be Israeli citizens, but they can't have independence in a state of their own because the Israelis want that land.
So instead, they just live.
In this permanent state of rightslessness and occupation.
So, you know, in the Carter years, they passed the Camp David Accord, where America agreed to start bribing Israel billions of dollars a year if they'll make peace with Israel.
And Israel promised to give up the West Bank and Gaza Strip to be a Palestinian state.
But then it was essentially unenforced since then.
Bill Clinton tried when he came in to forge what was called the Oslo Agreement.
Which was not for a real Palestinian state.
Palestinians will correct you if you say it was.
So it really was kind of a pseudo state led kind of a thing.
It was certainly better than anything they've had on offer since then.
But they would have ultimately remained under Israeli control to great degrees.
But the policy at that time of the Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin, Was to try to negotiate with the Arab states and including the Palestinians.
If you can make peace with Arafat and two state solution, then he could make peace with all the nearby states.
But then he was murdered by a Netanyahu fan in 1995.
And he was succeeded by a sympathizer, Shimon Peres, but who was quickly replaced by Benjamin Netanyahu in 1996 for the first time.
And the Israeli policy since then has been greater Israel.
You know, they say Hamas says, From the river to the sea.
In other words, we're going to erase Israel and make it Palestine again or whatever.
Well, that's what the Lakhd says too.
From the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea will always be one single state, one single security force Israel, run out of West Jerusalem and at the expense of the Palestinians, and they'll have no say in it.
And so that's the policy.
The problem is, for one, that they faced at that time was the threat of the Iranian.
Syrian Hezbollah axis on their northern border, especially Syria and Iran in their north, that could pose a threat to them, especially while they're confiscating Palestine.
And so in 1996, when Wormser came in, when Netanyahu came in, the American neoconservative David Wormser and his partner Richard Pearl wrote a policy for Netanyahu called A Clean Break, a new strategy for securing the realm.
You may have heard of it.
It makes very little sense, but that's because these guys are idiots, not because I'm telling it wrong.
But what it is, is if you can picture the Middle East here, you've got Iran, Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon, and then of course Jordan and Israel here.
But.
They look at this power block of Iran, Syria, and Hezbollah in southern Lebanon as the threat to Israel.
So then what they say?
They said, This is why we want to focus on getting rid of Saddam Hussein in Iraq.
Huh?
Saddam was a secular Sunni sitting on a super majority Shiite population, right?
Why would getting rid of him help?
Well, it wouldn't.
That's stupid.
But they thought it would because they thought that they would either have a Jordanian king come and rule over the Iraqis or Their best friend, the Iraqi Shiite exile Ahmed Chalabi, would take over.
And then the Iraqi, the new Shiite Iraq, would be an American, Jordanian, and Turkish catspaw, be on our side of the ledger in the Middle East, and then use that, especially their Shiite religious authority, to separate Hezbollah from Iran and make Hezbollah start being friends with Israel instead, and make the new Iraq build an oil pipeline to Haifa and essentially be allies with Israel.
Now, this is completely stupid.
I mean, if you read The Clean Break and the companion pieces called Coping with Crumbling States, and they even wrote a book about it called Tyranny's Ally America's Failure to Remove Saddam Hussein by Richard Pearl and by David Wormser, who's the principal author, and Richard Pearl.
This was their thinking, and this was a huge part of why America invaded Iraq in 2003.
Of course, Bush had his own stupid reasons, and so did Cheney and Rumsfeld, but it was the neoconservatives who were essentially tied at the hip to the Likud party in Israel who were telling Bush, Great idea, boss.
Don't worry.
We game this all out.
We know how it's going to work and what it's going to look like afterwards.
We have all the plans.
So trust us.
We got to go to Baghdad.
And so, as Walton Mearsheimer wrote in their book, The Israel Lobby, the neoconservatives didn't make the war happen.
Clearly, W. Bush pulled the trigger, but it couldn't have happened without them.
And what are the neocons other than essentially the vanguard of the Israel lobby in America?
And on top of that, Interestingly, they really represented Netanyahu's faction of the Likud over Ariel Sharon's, who was actually the prime minister at that time.
Sharon was more of an Iran hawk and wanted to go to Iran first.
But of course, Bush wanted to go to Iraq first.
So Sharon quickly got on board for that and even had his government manufacture fake intelligence in English to stovepipe up the intelligence stream to justify the war.
But it was really Netanyahu and his group who wanted to get Iraq the most.
And.
So then, what happened in 2003 was Bush took Iran's best friends all the way to power in Baghdad.
So they haven't served the United States and they didn't tell Hezbollah to stop being friends with Iran.
They've been Iran's best friends in power.
That war was a huge, you know, own goal, as they call it in soccer, putting Iraq now on Iran's side of the ledger.
When they used to be with us, America used to back Saddam Hussein's Sunni government in its war against Iran to contain Iran.
Now we brought the Iranian revolution into Iraq.
So then that's why Barack Obama started back in Al Qaeda again in Syria in his years, leading to the caliphate.
Remember all those pickup trucks full of jihadists rolling into Mosul in 2014?
Those weren't Iranians.
Those were the radical vanguard of the Sunni bin Ladenite terrorists who Obama had supported them so badly in Syria that then they blew back into Iraq and conquered all of Western Iraq, which then necessitated Iraq War III starting in 2014 to destroy the ISIS caliphate, which Trump finished in the first year of his second term.
So, in other words, America ruined the Middle East for Israel at Israel's behest.
Oops.
So then they had to ruin it even worse to try to make up for that.
So, first they gave Iraq to Iran's best friends.
Then they gave Syria to Osama bin Laden's best friends.
Then, when they took over Western Iraq, they had to blow that up again.
A small group, but one small province of Syria, the Idlib province remained under the control of the Bin Ladenites.
Through Trump's first term and through all of Biden until the very end of Biden last December 2024, they broke out of the Idlib province and they sacked Homs, Hama, Aleppo, and Damascus in 12 days and overthrew the government of Damascus, which had been again allied with Iran.
It's an Alawite government, but allied with the Shiites and allied with Iran.
Now is run by a Bin Ladenite.
Literally, the guy fought in Al Qaeda in Iraq, in Iraq War II, and he boasted that he killed Americans or fought Americans in Mosul and Ramadi in Iraq War II.
And that is now the American supported leader of Syria.
So ask me, but why would Barack Obama and Donald Trump and Joe Biden support bin Ladenite suicide bomber, head chopper, anti American terrorists in Syria or anywhere else?
And the answer is because that's what Israel wants, because Israel hates the Shiites more.
Israel's enemy is the Iranians.
Now, If you go back to September 11th, and I know a lot of people have their theories about this, but we're going to stick to the reality of it.
You look at those planes, none of those hijackers were from Iran, Iraq, or Syria, the axis of evil countries.
They were all from Saudi Arabia and Egypt, and then a couple from Lebanon and Yemen.
In other words, countries that were under the thumb of the United States, where our government supported their dictators.
And that was why they hated us, we had our troops in Saudi Arabia.
And we supported the kingdom there that quote unquote invited us to stay.
We supported the dictatorship in Egypt and in Jordan and all the monarchies of the Middle East, preventing them, they thought, from creating their caliphate.
But then, so where they get their caliphate, Bush and Obama built it for them.
Bush gave them Western Iraq, Obama gave them Eastern Syria, and built the thing for the guys in the name of essentially fighting Israel's wars over there.
All this is just absolutely contrary to the interests of the American people.
And especially when you look back at Al Qaeda's war against the United States in the 1990s and leading up to September 11th, a huge part of that was American support for Israel.
And in fact, even our dual containment policy of bombing Iraq from bases in Saudi Arabia and also containing Iran from there in the 1990s in the Bill Clinton years, that was at Israeli behest.
Bill Clinton had wanted to normalize relations with Iraq and Iran.
And the Israelis put their foot down and said, absolutely not.
We have just changed our policy here.
Where we want to demonize Iran and make a deal with Jordan.
And so you have to stay in Saudi Arabia because Iraq is too weak to balance against Iran after America beat them up in Iraq War I.
And so that was at Israeli behest that we stayed in Saudi Arabia.
And then, of course, the Israelis' merciless violence against the Palestinians and the Lebanese during that time was a huge part of the motivating factor for all of the anti American terrorism against the United States in the 1990s in the lead up to September 11th.
If you go back to Al Qaeda's first real attack in the country, sort of proto Al Qaeda, was Egyptian Islamic Jihad in the country.
The first attack they did was the assassination of a rabbi named Rabbi Kahane, who had been kicked out of Israel and his party banned for being fascist by the Supreme Court of Israel.
The Koch party said that they should just kill and expel all Arabs from Greater Israel.
He was the first guy that they got in New York City in 1990.
Then they did the first World Trade Center bombing.
And then there are numerous bombings in the Middle East and the Africa embassies and the Kobar Towers and, of course, the USS Cole and all of that through the 1990s.
And all of that essentially, or a great part of that, was motivated by Israel, American support for Israel and their crimes.
And so the greatest example of this is the lead hijacker, Mohammed Atta.
And his buddy Ramzi bin al-Shib, who helped him organize the attack and who's in Guantanamo to this day, they were Egyptian engineering students studying in Hamburg, Germany.
And when the Netanyahu fan assassinated Yitzhak Rabin and Shimon Peres came in, as part of this demonize Iran strategy, he invaded, reinvaded southern Lebanon to attack Hezbollah there.
And during that attack, it was actually Naftali Bennett, the future prime minister of Israel.
Who launched the artillery strike that killed 106 women and children in a United Nations shelter there in Kana, Lebanon, in 1996?
And bin Laden ranted about that in his first declaration of war against the United States.
And it was when Mohammed Atta and Ramzi bin Al Sheib read bin Laden's declaration of war and where he talked about the Kana massacre in there that they decided that they wanted to join his movement.
So here's Egyptian engineering students studying in Hamburg, Germany, volunteer for a Saudi sheikh to kill Americans as revenge for what Israel is doing in Lebanon.
Right.
And so that was why they told you that the Taliban did it because they hate your freedom so much.
Right.
Was because they didn't want to get into the fact that actually supporting Israel clearly just takes September 11th on the face of it is not in America's interest.
Now, you might say, maybe I disagree with you still, but this is the price we pay for supporting a very good friend who's only trying to do the right thing.
Maybe, but they're not a very good friend.
To us, they don't do anything for us.
In fact, when there are attacks coming against us, like the Beirut attack in 1983, they keep that secret.
The Americans are good boys, they can take care of themselves.
That's what they get for sticking their nose into our business.
And they won't help us when we got, when they know.
In fact, there's questions of how much they knew about September 11th and how just how specific a warning they gave to the FBI in August of 01 when they knew that there was an attack or quite possibly knew that there was an attack coming.
So they do nothing for us.
And they're not just a nice.
Country over there mining its own business.
It's the most ruthless regime on the planet per capita, right?
In the degree of misery and the degree of lawlessness, the degree of misery they inflict on the people under their control and the absolute criminality with which they operate.
That's what caused the attackers to come here.
Security Prices Paid Daily00:14:53
It wasn't for the existence of Israel at all, although obviously that's hugely controversial, but it's the occupation.
In the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, and in southern Lebanon, and the ruthless violence.
That was what Bin Laden cited, and that was what the hijackers clued into.
That was the recruiting shtick that worked on them, and it was true, right?
So he was just saying their Hollywood movies have too much TNA in them.
You can't get a suicide kamikaze 757 hijacker out of propaganda like that.
And if you make up a bunch of lies about us, about things that we never did, that's not going to work either.
But they cited concrete things that the United States was doing.
Bombing Iraq from bases in Saudi Arabia, supporting Israel and Lebanon and Palestine, supporting the dictators of the region, and all of that.
And that turned them against us.
Then, as soon as they hit us and the worst attack on September 11th, then immediately the neoconservatives swoop in to say, We got to go to Baghdad.
And why?
And they all admitted it too.
You know, Philip Zelikow, who was Connelly's advice and was actually the principal author of the September 11th report.
I never read it, but whatever you think of that.
But I bet you take his word for it when he explained this.
He goes, Look, man, they don't ever like to talk about it, but Saddam Hussein's support for Hamas is a huge part of America's invasion of Iraq in 2003.
Paul Wolfowitz and those guys, they didn't talk about this on TV, or not very much, but they definitely talked about it with each other that this is why they needed America to go to war with Saddam Hussein.
Saddam Hussein would pay a bounty to the family of any Palestinian that died in a conflict with Israel.
Even if they were a suicide bomber, right?
So if it was an old lady that got bulldozed in her house, he'd pay a bounty to her family.
But if it was a suicide bomber that went out and hit a city bus, he'd pay them too.
So, from the point of view of Israel, and hey, you can't argue with it, right?
He's paying people to be suicide bombers.
If you'll be a suicide bomber, I'll pay your mom and dad a bunch of money, is essentially what he's promising there, right?
But you couldn't get the American people to launch a war for that.
That's terrible, but that sounds like Israel's problem, right?
And, but according to Philip Zelikow, This entire neoconservative network inside the W. Bush government, that was what they were thinking about, was what was good for Israel.
And as I also mentioned, Ahmed Chalabi had promised that they're going to rebuild the old oil pipeline from the northern oil fields to Haifa, Israel, and save them a nickel on a barrel of oil.
So, that war was absolutely contrary to America's interests.
Saddam Hussein was threatening the United States in no way whatsoever.
And that was why they had to come up with all that propaganda.
It's the same thing about.
You know, Thomas Massey was on the Theo Vaughn show.
I don't know if you guys saw that.
And Theo Vaughn says, Well, is there an England lobby?
And he goes, No, because England's our natural ally.
They don't have to convince us.
They just send their ambassador to talk to our ambassador.
Israel has to spend all this money lobbying and blackmailing and threatening and pressuring, applying so much pressure on American politics because we don't need them at all.
They don't do nothing for us.
So they have to put all this pressure on people and build up this huge guilt trip and all this other stuff.
To say, like, you know, how much they need us and somehow how much we need them.
And it's always, by the way, if you focus on it, it's always a bunch of slogans and cliches, a bunch of focus group crap.
It's never a real explanation.
They go, Iran is the biggest state sponsored terrorism in the world.
You go, really?
Because it's Al Qaeda terrorism that concerns me.
The Shiites didn't hit our towers.
And so you're going to complain.
Hamas didn't hit our towers.
They're Sunnis, but they didn't hit our towers either.
But you're concerned about Hezbollah?
Well, I'm just not from southern Lebanon or northern Israel, so I just don't care about Hezbollah.
They're just not my problem.
So, the greatest state sponsored terrorism in the world, that would have to be Washington, D.C., in coalition with Riyadh and London, and everybody knows it.
So, don't lie to me.
I don't like it when people lie to me.
You know, the biggest state sponsors of terrorism is the American Empire and our client states.
And, well, you can argue whether America is Israel's client state, probably two thirds of the time.
But that has a lot to do with our government's behavior over there.
It always has been.
You know, there's so many people, George Marshall didn't want to recognize Israel at all.
So, we have interests with all these Arab countries over there, particularly oil, but our relationship with Israel is going to ruin all of that.
It puts every other relationship over there into question.
You have people like, quoting enough already, James Mattis and David Petraeus both talked about we pay a security price over there every single day, which is a very nice way of saying our guys get killed extra in Iraq and Afghanistan because of our support for Israel.
You know, Danny Scherson, the U.S. Army. Sergeant over there, maybe captain by then in Afghanistan.
He told me he'd be meeting with some elder out in Paktika province somewhere.
And they'd go, Oh, you love us so much, huh?
Is that why you helped the Israelis kill the Palestinians?
We don't trust you.
We don't believe you because we know how you guys really are.
And it just undermined every single thing they were trying to do.
Not that they were really being so gracious to the poor Afghans, but still, whatever they were trying to do.
They know, even Mattis and Petraeus themselves admit, usually only candidly, that Israel is nothing but a security risk to us.
We get essentially nothing out of our support for them.
And I'll clam up after this, which is, and I can't really prove this, but I'm going to keep bringing it up anyway.
And if I'll get egg on my face later about it, fine.
But I'm just certain, I just know it in that I don't really know it, but speculate it since that the New Orleans attacker.
Bourbon Street on New Year's Eve, uh, that he was pissed off about Israel.
This is an American army veteran who joined Islam and joined ISIS, you know, supposedly, and then recorded himself ranting as he drove from Houston to New Orleans, which takes a little while.
Yeah.
And then drove down Bourbon Street on New Year's Eve and killed, I think, 12 people and injured a couple dozen more.
And, um, And people partying on Bourbon Street on New Year's, right?
People who didn't do nothing, people who couldn't possibly have been responsible.
And they won't release the transcripts of that video or release the video itself, but it's so obvious that he was ranting about American support for Israel and their genocide against the poor people of the Gaza Strip over the last couple of years there in that thing.
And that's Americans crucified for Israel's sins, paying the price for what Israel's doing and American support for what Israel's doing with our guns, our planes, our bombs.
We also saw.
Where two people were assassinated out in front of the Israeli embassy in Washington, and some lunatic did a firebomb attack at a pro Israel rally in Boulder, and one person ended up dying of their injuries from that.
You see the guy with the makeshift can of WD 40 or whatever he had there trying to get, you know, but apparently one guy really did burn really bad and died of that.
And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
September 11th, of course, is the very worst of it, but this is a major cause of anti American terrorism in this country, and it has been.
And yes, it's true.
I'll be the first to tell you the FBI has entrapped as many as 300 idiots into fake terrorist attacks that were just for the headlines and for their budgets and whatever.
But I'm not talking about that.
I'm talking about real terrorists and people, whether lone wolves or whether they're sent here as sleepers.
The Israelis love to push the idea that we have Hezbollah sleeper cells in this country, but America just bombed Iran.
Did you see a bunch of Hezbollah sleeper cells, a bunch of Shiite terrorist attacks in this country?
No.
It's the bin Ladenites who threaten the United States of America.
And who else do they threaten?
Israel.
Iran.
No, they don't threaten Israel.
In fact, Israel loves them, apparently.
I mean, they'll kill Americans over their grudge against Israel, but they do nothing but make nice things.
I thought you were saying they hate both of us.
Oh, yeah.
Well, yeah, they're willing to kill Americans over their hatred for Israel, but they're not willing to attack Israel.
There's never been an upturn.
A bin Ladenite type attack against Israel.
In fact, when ISIS accidentally hit them back in the Obama years, they apologized for it and the Israelis told them no hard feelings.
And the Israelis said, and I quote this in enough already, I have so many sources of the Israelis saying, listen, we prefer ISIS to Iran.
We prefer, and Iran meaning Assad, right?
The secular Alawite dictator of the country, but he's friends with Iran.
So they said over and over again that they preferred not just, oh, the free Syrian army.
Mythical moderates, but even the Islamic State Caliphate of absolute head chopping, you know, berserkers.
You guys don't remember that 10 years ago.
The war for Western Iraq was as mean as it gets.
I mean, Patrick Coburn called these guys the Islamist Khmer Rouge, right?
Pol Pot's communists in Cambodia.
So just the most murderous, insane, you know, rampaging lunatics that you could think of.
Like that was who the ISIS guys were.
And the Israelis were like, yeah, but they're not Shiites.
Okay, fine, but that's fine, but that's Israel's interest.
That's not our interest, you know?
Yeah.
I was deployed, I was just going to say, in 2016, I was in the Marines.
I was deployed there and we were supporting the airstrikes on them.
And I was always struggling.
Actually, I did connect the dots.
And we would drive by in Kuwait, the oil fields.
I was like, why am I here, you know, for months and these, oh, that's why.
And in addition to just a little blue and white flag.
Yep.
And look, there were times where the Americans were flying literal air cover for the Iranians on the ground.
Against the Islamic State caliphate.
So if you ask a regular American and just go, well, like, who do you hate more?
ISIS.
ISIS or the Bin Ladenites.
That's who I hate more.
Right?
You'd have to lobby me billions of dollars a year to make me hate the Quds force more when the Quds force are saying, thanks, Americans, for the air cover.
Watch me kill these Bin Ladenites.
Yeah.
Right?
Black and white issue to me.
You swear blood oath loyalty to Osama Bin Laden.
I don't care when you get killed.
I think it's funny when you do, actually.
But the Iranians, they never did anything to us.
You were talking about American soldiers going and dying, not for our interests, but for Israel.
And one of my friends, he's a solid Christian.
He said, and I mean, it's obviously pretty fundamental, basic information, but apparently there's a lot of Christians, older Christians, that need to be informed when it comes to this.
But he said, the heart of the gospel is that God sent his son to die for us, not that we send our sons to die for Israel.
You know, like sounds pretty basic, you know, like you could read the Bible, you know, cursory glance one time through and probably come away with that, you know, like you really indoctrination is expensive, you know, it actually takes a lot more effort, like we saw with the USAID stuff and all that, like to convince people that a boy is a girl and a girl is a boy, or to convince people that, you know, that the heart of, you know, the biblical text is, you know, little old ladies sending a portion of their, you know, fixed income to Israel,
like that actually requires indoctrination, that requires.
Propaganda that requires billions of dollars and lobbying, and but the basic message of America first, from a political, cultural standpoint, or Christianity for that matter, at a theological, religious standpoint, is pretty self explanatory.
It's pretty basic.
The heart of the Christian faith is God sent his son to die for me, not me sending my sons to die for Israel.
You know, there's this lady who's a pro Palestine activist named Allison Weir, and her origin story was she's this nice housewife who got a thing in the mail.
About Save the Children.
And it's just like you see on TV, these kids living in sewage and digging in the garbage pits and whatever.
And so she's learned about this.
And, you know, you guys are younger than me, and especially you.
When I was a kid, we just watched TV all the time.
And this was just a regular fixture of TV life in America.
There are places in the world where people are very, very poor, and you have these Christian charities trying to help them, right?
We just see these things all the time.
So Allison Ware got some.
Some propaganda like that in the mail.
And so she started writing letters back and forth, donating and writing letters back and forth.
And she's pretty soon corresponding with a little kid, I think it was, who explains that the reason he lives in a pile of sewage is because he lives in a refugee camp in Lebanon.
And the reason he lives in a refugee camp in Lebanon is because the Israelis stole his land and drove his family off their land.
So now they live in a refugee camp in a foreign country.
And she went, huh, that's funny.
I never heard of.
People being driven off their land so that Israel could be there instead.
You know what I mean?
And that was how she started looking into that.
I mean, I heard this when I was a kid from time to time, at least, but this used to, they don't say this as much anymore because it's so preposterous and so easy to disprove in an era where we all have a supercomputer in our pocket.
But they used to really say that this was a land without people, there was nobody there.
And so it was a conspiracy theory if you said that there were Palestinians who had been cleansed off of their land and into these horrid refugee camps and all this.
Eric Margulies.
A great reporter and a friend of mine.
His mother was a great journalist at that time.
And they threatened to kill her and him, Baby Eric, if she would dare to continue to report on the plight of the Palestinians living in their refugee camps in the West Bank and all that.
They were denying these people existed at all, that they'd been cleansed off their territory at all.
Because even then, it would have been hugely controversial.
That's why they had to cover it up that the Nakba had even happened.
Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but I mean, Israel, you have to understand, in 1948, they literally just declared, this is our land now, essentially.
The British and the UN, they basically kind of rescinded and said, eh, we don't really care much about it.
And they declared themselves the state of Israel.
And Truman recognized it.
And Truman within minutes recognized it.
Covering Up the Nakba00:15:14
Like that's how it came about though.
They literally just said, this is us.
Did you ever see Napoleon Dynamite where he takes his hat and he's like, this is totally my hat now?
That's what Israel did.
Like this is totally my hat now.
Just with land in the center of the old world that's been occupied continuously for thousands and thousands of years.
And it was always a recipe for disaster, like to throw a bunch of Israelis in the middle of an Islamic sea.
It's like there was other land.
But you do that, like, then the West is on the hook forever.
Well, we certainly have seen how it played out.
You know, I kind of always thought that essentially Ben Gurion was right that if they had given up the West Bank and the Gaza Strip and let them have an independent state there and let it be a free and independent, prosperous place to live,
let the refugees come back, if not to what we call greater or, you know, Israel proper, at least let them come back to a free and prosperous and independent state in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, East Jerusalem as its capital and all that, like in the deal.
And that it seems like that would work.
Seemed like that could have worked.
Possibly it's just too late now.
But Arafat recognized Israel in 1988.
He said, enough fighting.
In fact, that was why they invaded southern Lebanon in 1982 was because Arafat was there and was trying to make peace.
And they thought, oh no, a partner for peace.
We've got to kill him.
It's the same thing that they did when Sheikh Yassin, the head of Hamas, said in 2004, January 2004.
He said, I'm tired.
I'm old.
I'm tired of fighting.
I don't want to do this anymore.
Let's make peace.
We'll recognize Israel within 67 borders.
We'll settle for our measly, stinking 22%.
Come on, let's negotiate.
Two months later, they killed him with an airstrike.
And which is, in fact, that assassination of a partner for peace that they didn't want is what touched off the riot in Fallujah that led to the lynching of the Blackwater guards that led to the first invasion of Fallujah in March of 2004, which then touched off the first battle of Najaf as well.
And then later, the second battle of Fallujah, which really did so much.
To worsen the Sunni based insurgency against the American occupation there.
And by the way, as long as I'm ranting about that, I should have said better before because I ended with the Iranians never did nothing to us.
Everybody says all the time, I kind of addressed 1983, where America was using Israel as cutouts to sell Iran missiles a couple of years after the Beirut bombing, which Israel didn't warn us about.
So, like, come on, we're supposed to still hate them and refuse to ever forgive them or be able to get along with them because of that long ago.
I was joking the other day, sorry to repeat myself, but you know, Ronald Reagan wasn't Walter Mondale.
He was Ronald Reagan.
And Ronald Reagan thought, eh, I can sell missiles to these guys if I need to bounce back against Iraq for a minute, whatever, get some hostages out.
So if he could do that, we can make a deal at any time.
The other big talking point, you'll hear this all the time, I'm sure your audience hears this all the time, is that Iran killed 600 of our guys in Iraq War II.
Well, a few things about that.
First of all, It's kind of pregnant in that, right?
Implied is that, well, they didn't kill 4,000 of our guys in Iraq War II.
4,000 of our guys were killed fighting the Sunni based insurgency, fighting for the Shiites in that war.
Okay, now that we got that straight, the 600 is actually 500.
And the 500 were not killed by the Iranians, the 500 were killed by Iraqi Shiites when in 2007, David Petraeus turned on Muqtad al Sadr and the Mahdi army in eastern Baghdad and down in Najaf.
And tried to fight them under the accusation, which was actually false, that he was the most Iran tied of the Shiite leaders that we were fighting for, when in fact it was Skiri and Dawa that were, and he was the more nationalist.
He wanted to marginalize Iran and the United States, is why they were targeting him, and as an excuse to try to escalate and build up even to get strikes inside Iran, which Bush ended up vetoing.
And the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, pardon me, the chairman of the commander of Central Command, Admiral William Fox Fallon, said, Over my dead body, put his foot down and said, We're not doing it.
But that was what all that was about a conspiracy between Dick Cheney, the vice president, General David Petraeus, the commander of the Iraq War, and Michael Gordon at the New York Times to put out this lie that every time a Shiite sets off a bomb, it was an Iranian bomb provided by the Quds Force.
When it was just totally false, all those bombs were made in Iraq by Iraqis.
They were taught how to make these EFPs, is what they're called the advanced IEDs with the shape charge and a copper core.
They learned the technique from Lebanese Hezbollah, but they learned it from the IRA, not from the Iranians.
And so it just was not the Iranians who were behind that.
And I got sources in the book from the highest levels of American intelligence and military intelligence saying, you're totally right.
This was a lie.
And in fact, I said this on one TV show the other last week, and a guy emailed me and goes, Hey, I was so cool that you brought that up because I was in the military at that time and I was in charge of the propaganda group that was supposed to spread that lie, but we never did a very good job of it.
And it did fall apart pretty quickly, as you say there.
But like, I can vouch for what you're talking about there.
I was one of my jobs pushing that propaganda about that Iran was behind those bombs.
And what you'll hear always, audience, you'll note when you hear people talk about this, they never explain it.
You just heard me explain it.
How do we know who was setting off these bombs and under what circumstance were they and when and where?
You hear that from me.
You don't ever hear those details from the people making those accusations because they don't know what they're talking about.
They're just repeating a talking point.
And they probably couldn't even name Muqtada al Sadr, much less.
Tell you when and where America was fighting the Shiites or why, or much less where those bombs were actually coming from, which is they were being made in Iraq by Iraqi Shiites.
So I'd be remiss if I didn't ask you this.
What do you think about October 7th?
Well, I mean, so the lead up to it, the background to it is the Abraham Accords.
So, as I previously mentioned when I was talking about the clean break, Yitzhak Rabin wanted to negotiate with the Palestinians and with the neighboring Arab states, the closer in Arab states.
And the Netanyahu doctrine has been that, yes, we're going to demonize Iran and we're even going to negotiate with the near Arab states, but we're not going to compromise with the Palestinians.
They can lay down and die.
We're stealing their land and we'll settle for nothing less.
And if you have a problem with that, look, Iran.
Okay, that's been the Netanyahu doctrine.
And what happened when Trump came in last time was that Jared Kushner, whose bed Netanyahu used to sleep in when he came and visit New York, according to the New York Times, Jared Kushner figured out that, well, what's your price?
The American people have a money machine.
We can just inflate their savings away and give it to you.
And so they bribed Bahrain with F 16s, UAE with F 35s, Sudan with debt forgiveness, and Morocco with the illegal recognition of their illegal seizure of Western Sahara, the northern part of Western Sahara.
And in exchange, they would normalize relations with Israel.
They call this the peace deals.
None of these countries were at war with Israel.
What they were was full normalization deals, which they had promised all these countries never to do until the Palestinians either got an independent state or citizenship in a single state.
And so Kushner just bribed them.
Now, they were working on Saudi Arabia, which is, of course, the big prize.
And Netanyahu gave a speech in.
I think on September 22nd, 2023, the beginning of the last week in September.
And he held up a map of the new Middle East.
He was mocking Shimon Peres, who had used that phrase encouraging the Rabin doctrine that what we're going to do is we're going to make friends with all these Arab states after making friends with the Palestinians or dealing with the Palestinians, at least, and then we'll have a new Middle East.
So Netanyahu was like an inside joke, was mocking him and saying, Look, it's the new Middle East, only Israel is all Israel, and the West Bank and Gaza Strip are all one color with the rest of Israel, and it's all greater Israel in the map, right?
And it has the big arrow, and it has, We're friends with these guys, these guys, these guys.
Etc.
In other words, I did it.
I got away with essentially accomplishing what Rabin wanted to accomplish, but without giving the Palestinians a damn thing.
Ha ha.
I win, you lose.
And he says in the speech Palestinians, nobody's coming for you, right?
I'm paraphrased, but he blames them for holding up peace and says, but now you don't stand in the way anymore.
I can get whatever I want.
So it's two weeks after that that they broke out of their pen.
In the Gaza Strip and launched that attack.
Now, the immediate purpose of it was to seize hostages to negotiate away.
We don't call them hostages for some reason.
They're still prisoners, even when they're just kidnapped and held without trial in Israeli prisons.
People of foreign military occupation, speaking a foreign language, and hold them without charges for months or even years at a time.
But they were stealing hostages to negotiate away.
And at the same time, they were trying to, I think, Cause enough of a crisis politically that it would re controversialize their whole situation.
I mean, attention had been turned away.
Even I stopped the Middle East to go write a book about Russia and Ukraine for two years, right?
Everybody's looking away.
And they said, no, we demand attention again.
Israelis can't be allowed to get away with this.
So they were trying to heighten the contradictions and reignite the controversy in the region, which they sure as hell accomplished in doing.
Now, On what they did in the attack was they clearly killed civilians.
And it absolutely is true that there was what's called the Hannibal Directive, which is an Israeli policy that was invented for, in case a soldier gets kidnapped, that in some circumstances they would call the shot to kill the soldier as well as his kidnappers rather than let him get taken back into the Gaza Strip.
Because before there was a kidnapped soldier named or captured soldier named Gilat who they had to exchange like a thousand Palestinians to get him out.
So, we're not going to do that again.
If anybody steals or captures one of our soldiers, well, we'll do this Hannibal directive.
We'll kill him and his kidnappers too, which is pretty sick.
But on the morning of October 7th, they called mass Hannibal, meaning light up any car that's on its way back to the Gaza Strip, including if it's presumed to have kidnapped Israeli hostages in it, and including if they're not soldiers at all, but they're civilians.
You know, 20 somethings abducted from a rave, or elderly people taken from their kibbutz, blow them up too.
And in fact, they blew up some of the damage at the houses.
You can tell it was from tanks and helicopters and some of the cars as well, rather than from Hamas, who were armed with grenades at worst, right?
They didn't have the kind of things that you need to blow up an entire house.
Those were tank rounds that did that, and helicopter shells and whatever.
However, I'm only saying that so that people got it straight.
You know, whichever side you're on, that there's no question that Hamas killed innocent people that day.
And in fact, they killed so many innocent people and it made their cause look so horrific.
And it gave the Israeli government such license to do what they're doing now that many people suspect that Israel let the attack happen because they wanted it to happen because they wanted to play victim so bad and they're so good at playing victim and using it as an excuse.
So, is that where I'm at?
Like, I've you know, I've heard people say like Israel did it themselves.
I know, but Israeli intelligence is some of the most.
Sophisticated intelligence in the world.
And the fact that they didn't see it coming.
I've joked about it like Hank Liders, you know, like it's, you know, it's like we see guys coming and they'll be here in about 45 minutes.
You know, you're not moving that fast.
And yet there's no, well, nobody gets there.
Nobody protects.
Nobody, there's no question.
There's no question from all the reporting from, you know, connected American journalists and Israeli journalists that they had all the intelligence in the world that they needed to stop this, including immediate intelligence from the day before.
The day of andor, you know, the morning of and the night before, and all that, that they're clearly preparing for something here immediately.
Not only that, they had the war plans, according to the New York Times.
And this is just what the Israelis told Ronan Bergman of the New York Times, who's their guy, apparently, that they had intercepted the entire plan a year before.
They knew exactly what was going to happen, even if not exactly when.
And then the cover story, at least, is that they all just are a bunch of blockheads.
Who refuse to listen when they're being warned by people below that this is happening because it's been decided higher up that nah, they're not going to do anything.
And so, therefore, we don't want to hear it.
We have this huge counter incentive to contrary information.
That's the you can call it the limited hangout.
That's like the Occam's razor easiest explanation is that Netanyahu said it was okay for us to back Hamas because they're not going to do anything.
Wasn't Netanyahu almost on his way out?
And then October 7th, he was kind of like.
Marie kind of like secured him.
You know, this is really an underplayed part of the story, I think.
And people can watch, I don't know where all you can find this.
I got it off the Pirate Bay.
If people still do torrent files, get you a VPN.
But there's a documentary called The BB Files.
And what it is, is it's police interrogation videos.
Have you guys seen this?
It's the police interrogation videos of Netanyahu and all his friends who've been bribing him with lavish gifts, him and his stuck up horrible wife for years.
And it includes Miriam and Sheldon Adelson.
And it includes a bunch of powerful people talking about how, especially Netanyahu's wife, is just the most ruthless, demanding, horrible woman in the world who insists that people bring her jewelry and bring her extremely expensive champagne and bring her all she'll bring her laundry to the White House.
I think 10 years ago, she'll bring her laundry and be like, You're gonna do this for me.
That's right.
In fact, I've read a thing where the State Department they have a thing where they offer laundry services to any diplomats in the world, but the Israelis are the only ones who actually literally bring dirty clothes to have washed.
They're just so funny to me.
Um, it is, it's funny to me too.
Um, And so, not meeting the stereotypes like that.
Controlling the Flame Height00:05:06
He's under a lot of pressure in that, and you can tell he is in real trouble.
This is absolutely against the law in Israel to take these kinds of gifts.
It's just blatant corruption.
And he's guilty and could go to the pen, but he can't because he's the prime minister.
And the longer he stays prime minister, the longer he stays out of jail.
And so, he just has the most obvious incentive.
It's like the purloined letter right there.
It says the most obvious incentive he has right in front of your face there.
To do whatever he can to stay in power.
As George Lucas said, he's not the first one to start a war to stay in office.
You know what I mean?
He was talking about Emperor Palpatine, but he could have been talking about a lot of people.
And so, yes, that absolutely has a lot to do with it.
By the way, so I alluded to this, but let me explain.
I got a great article that I wrote with my buddy Connor Freeman at antiwar.com and at the Institute, and it's called Netanyahu's Support for Hamas Backfired.
Now, there's a limited hangout answer, which is oh, well, Netanyahu was just paying Hamas, as the New York Times put it, buying quiet.
If he can give them money, they'll be tame and he can keep them in line.
But That's the New York Times version.
The deeper explanation, which we have all these quotes of him and many of his, you know, acolytes and followers inside the Likud party, in the government and in the media over there.
The whole purpose of Israel pressuring Qatar to back Hamas was so that the Israelis can say, we have no partner for peace, to keep the Palestinian people divided and conquered.
And if If old Mahmoud Abbas, the Arafat successor to Fatah there in the West Bank, if he seems like a reasonable guy, remember Donald Trump said he seems like such a grandfatherly old guy, I could make a deal with him.
He seems like a decent enough guy.
Well, if even Trump can say that about Abbas, then it's a good thing that Israel has Hamas running Gaza so that they can say to Trump, Yeah, but what about Gaza?
Mahmoud Abbas can't speak for them.
That's under the thumb of those terrible Islamists in Hamas.
And so.
As Ariel Sharon's advisor, Dov Weissglass, put it, we have a no one to talk to certificate from the U.S. Congress.
It says we have no one to talk to.
And by the way, in that, so there's a great quote of Netanyahu.
There are three different people who quoted him saying this, and then he tried to deny it, and his lobbyists tried to deny it.
He said, It's okay that we back Hamas.
We have to back Hamas in order to prevent a two state solution, to keep Americans, to keep European liberals, to keep Tel Aviv liberals quiet.
About how we have to deal with the Palestinians, but don't worry, we control the height of the flame.
But here's the joke they deny that, but in the BB files, you can sit there and watch him say it with your own eyes.
I mean, trust the Hebrew translation or call a friend and have him translate it for you.
But according to that, there he is in a police interrogation and they're asking him about his support for Hamas.
He's saying, Don't worry, we control the height of the flame.
He is the exact same language.
To talk about why he is, in fact, committing treason in the short term, it's because he's too clever by half.
He knows he's so cute that he can get away with it.
I'm going to support these terrorists just so I can say to you, you don't expect me to deal with these terrorists, do you?
But don't worry, I know what I'm doing.
I won't let them actually do get out of their pen and do anything horrible like kill 1,200 people or something like that.
You know what I mean?
And then, of course, it all got away from him.
Now, you could argue, is he cynical enough to allow that to happen?
I don't know, maybe.
Why not?
But I also think that power corrupts, but it makes people stupid too.
And I think there's plenty of reason to believe that he thought, don't worry, I have them tamed, right?
I control the height of the flame.
It's all good, dude, right?
But then once you make a decision like that, now the question is well, did anyone ever really give him real cause to rethink that?
And to ask whether maybe he did control the height of the flame, but now the flame is getting higher and maybe he needs to reassess.
I think in government work, it usually doesn't work like that, right?
He's made his pronouncement.
I know what I'm doing.
And that means that if you give him contrary information, you're questioning whether he really knows what he's doing or not, right?
Rather than just giving him new information he needs to know, you're contradicting his conclusion with information that you know he doesn't want to hear.
And so I think you do get a lot of that in government.
You know, a great example of that would be.
Supporting Moderate Rebels00:04:07
With the Syria war, where they said, We're just supporting the moderate rebels.
And it's like, Come on, these guys are suicide bomber bin Ladenites.
And they're like, Yeah, but we're not supporting them.
We're just supporting the moderate rebels.
And it's like, Yeah, but these guys are suicide bomber bin Ladenites.
And they're like, I know, I know, but we're just supporting the moderate rebels.
And this went on for years.
And it's like, Look, man, can't you guys just admit that just make up a guy's name, blame it on Alan Smithy, and say, Alan Smithy made the bad decision?
You know, that's like when no one wants to take credit for a movie and they put the fake director's name on it.
Just blame it on Alan Smithy.
Turns out there are no moderate rebels.
There's just bin Ladenites, and let's stop funding them now, right?
They can't, they just can't second guess themselves.
Wow.
All right, let's go to our final commercial break.
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Scott Horton, since we have him in the studio today.
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Protecting Friends Over Truth00:17:51
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So, welcome back.
We have some great super chats and some questions, and we'll work with them.
Scott, looking forward to hearing your perspective.
I do have to say, though, I've seen Joel vindicated a lot in predictions.
I've been vindicated.
I like to think a couple times.
But about an hour ago, you said, I do think we see, just because of all the attention and the pressure on the Trump admin, I think we see some of the Epstein files.
And just literally about 40 minutes to an hour ago, Laura Trump claimed that they're going to release more, that they've heard the people, that the backlash was effective.
And they've said, We hear you loud and clear, and we're going to do our best to release more to the public.
So we will see what comes out of that.
But the lesson is What's the takeaway?
Always chimp.
Always make a scene if.
The administration, if your representatives who are supposed to work for you are doing things that you hate and are immoral, you stand up and you say, No, we supported you for this, and you are doing the opposite.
So I totally agree.
And look, I think, you know, there's sort of a caricature of like sort of this ridiculous schoolhouse rock naivete that like you can't call your congressman.
Don't you know he's like blackmailed by the Israelis on Epstein Island?
There's no point.
He's busy.
But, but, and the thing is, is that's right.
Like I'm not a big believer in democracy, and I don't really think that like young men call your congressman is a very good answer to anything.
On the other hand, when it's loud outcry time, we have to make sure there is one, right?
You can't have, even if it doesn't work like it's supposed to work in the Schoolhouse Rock cartoon where your representative actually represents you or anything silly like that, he should at least have to consider you.
He should at least have to know when he's sitting in his office and imagining the people out there in the rest of the county and the rest of the district, like, do they like what he's doing or are they mad as hell about this?
And just how many mad as hell about this?
About this is in a row.
Can he think that he can get away with before he's going to lose his job?
And even the same for the president.
If the phone is ringing off the hook and people are saying absolutely not, or you're damn right, we demand it, or whatever it is, then that's one thing.
If it's not ringing, then it's not ringing and it's not something they have to consider at all.
So, do we want to live in a world where some young aide is coming in and telling Trump, hey, you should know?
People are really pissed off about this, or you should know people really support you on this, or you should know it's about 50 50.
So you could probably get away with whichever you think.
You know what I mean?
Or is it just there's nothing going on at all?
And so you don't have to consider the American people.
What you have to consider is this is what the Saudis want and this is what the Israelis want.
So we better do what they say.
The American people don't seem to care either way, you know?
Yeah.
Right.
Okay.
Let's hop into the chat.
Wes, you want to read the first one?
Nathan.
Wow.
Yeah.
Nathan something.
Just be rough.
The Brulee?
It almost feels French.
The Brulee.
Duberlee.
Duberlee.
Yeah.
All right.
Good enough.
$49.99 super chat.
Thank you so much, Nathan.
I really appreciate that.
Nathan said this Thank you for your ministry.
Very few of the men in my church are willing to have these conversations.
Thank you.
Have y'all read Luther's On the Jews and Their Lies?
It seems the church today won't even engage with his or other reformers' ideas.
God bless.
Have you ever read it, Scott?
No.
Have you heard about it, though?
Well, I know that there's such a tie.
I guess just the name of it raises the question to me of whether it's a religious argument or a political one or what he's even talking about.
A lot of it was religious, but also experiential, just his personal experience, because he befriended a lot of Jews to help him with like translation and different things like that, working directly from the Hebrew.
But then later in his life, so Martin Luther was like the original reformer protesting against the Catholic Church.
But then later in his life, he felt completely betrayed by a lot of Jews.
And as he was able to, Learned to read Hebrew and all those kinds of things, you know, started to read the Talmud and see some of the things that were in there.
And so eventually very much soured on the Jews.
So it was a religious, theological argument, but it was also personal, experiential.
I have not read all of it, read excerpts.
I have good friends who had read it, and he said, like, it wasn't all that inflammatory.
He read it and said, Hey, this isn't some type of raving.
Right.
Usually the quote that people take out and they're like, Oh, Martin Luther, you know, but Protestants, and we're Protestant, by the way, Scott.
So, you know, guys in our camp, like, you know, they can't completely do away with Luther because he's their original Protestant.
So then usually the way that they justify it is they say, Well, Luther was really great, but, you know, then towards the end of his life, he just lost it, you know.
But I don't think he really lost it.
I think he probably just learned some things along the way.
I think it was probably the same Luther.
I don't think that he.
Had dementia or something.
The thing is, too, is you got to understand it's always, you have to keep in mind that people are a product of their time.
Right.
And they speak in the language of their time.
I mean, you guys surely have noticed what a commie language English is even to this day.
It's so filled, just lousy with we's and us's and ours when that's not really what you mean.
You know what I mean?
It's just kind of the way that we talk.
So, in the era back then, to say, The Jews or the Catholics or the Hungarians or the whoever you're talking about.
It didn't have the same kind of connotation that we have post World War II.
And where you have, when people say the Jews, they're usually not talking about the entire Jewish population of a given area.
They're talking about a select few powerful people who are on their neighbor and this location doing these things.
The Jews did this or that is like a good stand in when you don't know who you're actually talking about.
You know what I mean?
That kind of thing.
When he's saying that, I think you gotta, and that's the title of a thing.
Who knows if he even wrote his own headline?
You know what I mean?
Writers, you hear me out there?
But yeah, I would just say, like, it sounds like an inflammatory headline.
It doesn't to me necessarily imply hate or a prescription of like doing anything to anyone or anything like that.
But it's the title would ring different in the ears of somebody from.
You know, the first half of the 20th century or before, you know, right?
I wouldn't get away with a book by that title, let's just put it that way, right?
Um, but since we're on the topic, uh, it is kind of coincidental, Nathan, that you bring up that book and you bring up Luther because uh, Wes and myself and Antonio, we were just talking a couple uh, days ago, and uh, and we did think uh, we were thinking, you know, tossing around the idea of like maybe we do next year do like a once a month, you know, it's not like too taxing, but a once a month book club, you know, for people to sign up.
With and you put them like in a signal thread, and so you know, we have access with each other, and so you're interacting with us, you know, and we do them once a month, you know, behind a paywall or on Zoom or whatever it is.
Um, book club, and we did think like, you know, there's so much talk about it, and it's a relevant topic these days.
Israel's constantly in the headlines, and you know, pretty much everybody and their mom is doing a bit of noticing, as the kids say.
So it would be an interesting book, even if there's you know, certain portions that we're like, oh, we don't really agree with that, but still, just for it.
The sake of antiquity and his historical standpoint to go through that.
So maybe we do the based book club or whatever it might be, and we go through the Jews and their lies by Martin Luther and discuss it.
All right, this next one Chris Tisking, another $49.99, $50 super chat.
Thanks, Chris.
That's very kind.
We appreciate it.
He says, You guys are the inverse of the Trump admin right now.
They are making all the wrong moves.
Pray for Trump.
He needs our prayers and needs to win many of us back.
That's true.
And he has to earn it.
I'm not Israeli and I will not vote for a pro Israel candidate ever again.
So, more of a comment than a question.
We appreciate it, sympathize with it.
Scott, any thoughts?
Yeah, I mean, I'm certainly not an Israeli, and I don't know how, especially at this late date, how anyone could conflate their interests with ours anymore.
You know, like when you talk about Iraq War II, it's basically still kind of an undercover thing.
Most people don't really understand Israel's role in lying us into that war at all.
But with what's going on in the Gaza Strip right now and in the West Bank too, and with the Iran War, which is still not necessarily over yet, there's still a lot of unresolved questions from the end of that.
I don't think anybody could doubt that this is all Israel centric foreign policy.
When Trump announced his great victory over Iran, he said a threat to Israel has been neutralized.
He didn't even pretend it was in the interest of the United States of America.
Great news.
So, yeah, I think more and more of the discrepancy is being noted by regular folks.
Yep, agreed.
Nick Bonner gave us $7.
Thanks, Nick.
He said this Jeff once said he considered Trump his best friend.
Very suspect.
They partied a lot together.
I think it was the 80s, especially 80s and 90s.
Like they were together.
There's no denying.
Yeah, there's definitely a history there.
Now, whether or not that doesn't mean you can have a friendship with a guy and not know everything he's doing, or even if you know about it, certainly that doesn't necessarily mean that you're participating.
Again, like we said earlier, I think if there was something that was absolutely criminal as it regards Trump, I think we probably would have heard about that.
Yeah.
Well, I know the enemies he has.
We know that Trump threw him under the bus years ago and kicked him out of his club and all of that.
So, the fact that they had a friendship, I don't think anybody's denying that.
But whether or not that implicates Trump, I don't think it necessarily proves that.
Okay.
Baptist 702, you want to read this one, Scott?
It's a weird one.
Oh, is it weird?
I'm sorry.
It's not related.
You can skip it.
Oh, because it's from his comment.
Yeah.
Oh, okay.
Although I don't really understand what the comment is, though.
Here, I can read it.
Go ahead.
Because I get it.
Baptist702, $5 super chat.
Thanks, Baptist.
Men like hot women.
That's a quote from Scott earlier, just relating to black male on men doing things with hot women is not exactly that unthinkable or that hard to get hold of.
It's not rocket science.
Nope.
He says, the church forgot to tell sisters in the pews and then expect men to somehow desire them for their entire marriage.
Just making the point we can so over spiritualize dating and marriage in the church that we neglect that ultimately, at the end of the day, beauty is a good thing.
It's good for men to pursue strength and excellence and to take care of themselves.
But also, women should pursue beauty, femininity.
And neither of those things are bad.
Yep.
Yeah, I get it.
Garrett Mizell.
But you don't have to, ladies.
You don't have to dress hotter at church.
Just.
Yeah, right.
Amen.
After the church.
Garrett Mizell.
$10 from Garrett.
He said, thanks, Garrett.
We appreciate it.
He said, my theory is that Trump is trying to get as many eyes on this as possible.
Oh, we've got a 4D chess trust in the plan guy here.
I'm not going for that one, man.
Best way.
So he continues, best way possible to get it.
It is to deny it in the most preposterous way imaginable.
Or just admit what the truth is and who all is compromised in this thing.
Think about the headlines you could get out of that.
Right.
And then he says, cover ups aren't this public.
Thoughts.
I think, you know, we're kind of giving you our thoughts right now.
I don't think.
Wishful thinking, buddy.
I don't think this is 40 chess.
I think Trump has played some 40 chess from time to time.
And when he does, it's a sight to behold.
And that's great.
But he's protecting his friends.
Yeah.
That's what it looks like.
I think I have one more super chat in there if you scroll down.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Wes, you do it.
All right, Brian Johnson.
Brian sent $10.
Thanks, Brian.
Big W for having Scott on.
Scott, thanks again for coming on.
I hope he's a Christian already, but if not, I hope he's done his part to teach these boys that libertarianism is the way of God and for Christians.
So after the show, we'll all try to convert each other.
There you go.
You can try to convert us to libertarianism.
We'll try to convert you to Christianity.
Yeah, I mean, we still have like some libertarianism, like we believe in property rights and things like that.
Like we, you know, but.
You know what you guys should do?
Read some Murray Rothbard.
I recommend The Left and Right Prospects for Liberty.
Okay.
And The Anatomy of the State.
And war, peace in the state.
And what has the government done to our money?
That's pretty good, Rothbard's starter pack.
I think we're definitely in agreement on what the government has done to our money.
Yeah.
And you know what you like to is Wall Street, banks, and American foreign policy.
Yeah.
Oh, and as long as we're talking Israel Palestine today, war guilt in the Middle East.
All by Rothbard.
All by Rothbard.
I'll look them up.
Rewind and write all that down, everybody.
All right.
And you said Murray was his first name?
Murray and Rothbard.
Yep.
Rothbard.
Best libertarian out of all of us so far.
Cool.
All right.
Let's see.
My Asian peers in Cali are lefties, except for me.
That's quite the name.
Provoked is a long read, but a great read.
Thanks, Scott.
Oh, thank you very much for saying that.
Appreciate that.
Very nice.
Cosmic Treason.
Is that one of them, Nate?
Yeah.
This is a question.
He says Is the most likely explanation that just like in 2020, Deep state experts, and he puts that in quotation marks.
We appreciate the quotation marks there.
Got in Trump's ears and convinced him that everything will go to hell if he doesn't listen to them and prevent the release.
And then he followed up just a little bit lower says, Or is it that Bongino and Patel had their families threatened by Massad slash CIA to keep them in line?
No, I would see it's the former.
It's the word comes down from the top that, look, guys, we don't want to do.
Too much with this.
We can't afford to let this get out too far.
Tell them this, but not that.
I don't think anybody has to make any explicit threats against, especially someone as powerful as the director of the FBI.
You know, they don't need to do it that way.
Yeah, I agree.
Cool dude.
He says, How long do you think it'll be until it is difficult for military pro Israel politicians to get elected?
I think we're getting there, man.
I appreciate the question.
I think we're talking about this before we went on.
There are a lot of people who supported the war in Iraq up until they finally didn't anymore.
And then it was just like the damn broke.
Who can believe in this stuff, man?
You got to sit here and regurgitate lies and pretend to believe them and repeat them again and again for years on end.
Like at some point, you just want to not go along anymore.
The Threat of Fear00:13:03
You know what I mean?
And I think it's the same thing here with Israel, where, like, you know, again, as we're talking about evangelical Christians in America are the greatest supporters of Israel, but even they are more and more questioning that, like, You know, Ted Cruz said in his Tucker Carlson interview, he goes, Well, listen, my Sunday school teacher said, Yeah.
And the thing is, and I've heard that from a lot of people, a lot of people over the years.
But the thing is, is I think when they say it out loud, I think even to Ted Cruz, he had to have realized when he said that, what an idiot he sounded like.
You know what I mean?
Because, like, you know, your Sunday school teacher is just some lady and she may be right, but she may not be.
And, like, you know, if you're Catholic, at least your priest claims like this real special ordained authority.
To speak for God in a way or whatever.
But, like, when we're dealing with Protestant ministers and the women who work for them and teach the kids Sunday school, there's nothing even supposedly magic about her authority.
There's nothing supernatural about her authority at all.
She just has read the Bible before, presumably, and knows it better than a seven year old.
And so she can teach it to a room full of seven year olds.
But if you're going off of just what you learned in Sunday school and you hadn't really thought that much harder about since then, And now you're talking about real wars and real people being killed and real terrorist attacks against our country and response and all that.
You might at least stop and wonder whether your Sunday school teacher had any idea what she was talking about at all, whether the parts of the Bible that she quotes that says that we have to do what the Likud says really meant that or not or what.
People can quibble over every syllable of the Bible, every phrase, right?
Any space between a comma and a period.
You can fight for a year over what it all means or what it was supposed to mean or what.
When they say a day, they mean a year or whatever it is, right?
People fight like crazy over any part of the Bible.
Oh, but this just says you got to do whatever the modern state of Israel, founded by atheist communists 80 years ago, says.
Come on, really?
The author of the whole universe says so, huh?
Like, I don't know.
I'm sorry.
I hate to be too patronizing about it.
I know people take their faith very seriously, but like, it seems to me like just on the basic level of like, you could accept like every bit of this religion except the parts that are just.
Completely stupid, right?
Like, does that make any sense to you that the author of the Sermon on the Mount wants you to help kill these people?
Like, that's really that was that.
If Jesus was here, that would be his best idea, or this is your best idea for forcing him to come back now instead of waiting around for the apocalypse to come.
Forget God's plan, our plan is to force the second coming now because we're bored and we just want it.
That's where it is for a lot of people, it's an accelerant.
I know, and I sound like a jerk saying it like that, but like, I just grew up listening to.
Uh, Rusty Ware down there on San Antonio radio, you know, Cornerstone Church, you know, fill his head with these lies on Sunday.
And he'd come up on Monday and go, I guess we got to support the war with Israel after all.
It says in the Bible, we got to do whatever Israel says.
And it's just like, look, man, it actually doesn't say that in the Bible.
Just a man convinced you that it said that, and you should hate and resent that man.
Or maybe you should forgive him because Jesus says, Forgive him, but you should at least know your enemy and you should know better than to just let another human with no higher status than you.
Tell you how certain he is that the word of God is that you better actually indulge in sin this time.
When on the face of it, what we're talking about is the utmost of cruelty, which maybe fits with the God of the Old Testament, but not with the new.
Yeah, dispensationalism is a hell of a drug.
I will certainly admit that.
This is Nathan.
This next one is Harris.
Is that the Muslim?
All right, we'll give him a shot.
He said, Scott, how do you think part of the Zionist agenda is to pit Christians and Muslims against each other?
It's a good question.
Yeah, although I'm not certain if they would phrase it exactly in that way necessarily.
But they're certainly trying to get America, which is a supermajority Christian country, to fight Muslims for them.
And they're doing everything they can to get us to hate and fear Muslims because that's who they want to steal land from.
And yes, they do want to steal land from.
Palestinian Christians, too, but most Americans don't know the first thing about that.
Most Americans probably assume that the Christians are protected by and on the same side as the Israeli Jews rather than being mercilessly murdered and persecuted and ripped off by them.
But it is clearly their agenda to make regular Americans just hate and fear Muslims and Islam.
Now, am I in favor of making Texas a majority Muslim state or something and bringing them all here to change the way we live?
No.
But Can we tolerate a few million Muslims in our country at least and respect their freedom of religion and all that?
Yeah, sure.
We don't seem to have a problem.
There are mosques in Williamson County.
Nobody cares.
Not hurting nobody or disrupting anything really.
And yet, and in fact, like if you think about all the propaganda of the terror war years, of the Bush and Obama years especially, where you literally got 3 million Muslims in the country.
If they were all on jihad against us, we would have noticed, right?
We would have.
Endless arson fires to put out at the very least, right?
And it's just not that way.
Muslims in America wake up and go to work in the morning.
They're very assimilated.
They usually come from, in fact, most people don't know this.
Most American Muslims are Asian, and most American Arabs are Christians.
So we often conflate those things, but they're very, you know, separate concepts in many ways.
And most of the immigrants from Muslim countries that have come here have been from the elite.
Right.
We're not talking about like emptying out the slums of Cairo.
We're talking about people who went to university in Cairo then get to come here, things like that.
So they tend to be very well assimilated and not cause many problems.
But meanwhile, you have a guy named Rabbi Yal Rushami from Brooklyn who spent millions of dollars going around getting, especially Western states and Southern states, to pass laws banning Sharia and protecting the American people from the implementation of Sharia law.
Now, if you're just the average person who works for a living and listens to the radio, you would get the impression that we were under threat of Sharia law.
And that if somebody hadn't intervened and passed these state laws to prevent it, then we would be under its command right now.
When no, that is not the case anywhere at all.
The only place where Sharia law ever applies in America is in the same way that Catholic law and Jewish law apply in like divorce proceedings, where local civil courts respect religious customs.
So, if there are certain rights that you have to go through to get divorced as a Catholic, and the courts respect that, that's not the same as forcing anyone else to go along with those rules, right?
It has nothing to do with implementing Sharia law over us.
So, what was it all about?
It's just a propaganda campaign to make you hate and fear Muslims.
That was all.
No one was trying to implement Sharia law over you, not for one day.
And who was behind the whole thing?
A guy named Rabbi Yal Rul Shami, who isn't from Texas or Colorado or New Mexico or Arizona, any of these places where we're supposed to be protected.
From Sharia.
It's just a propaganda campaign to get you confused, to make you hate and fear your neighbors over nothing.
And when in fact there actually is a threat.
And quite frankly, like there is a threat from some individual Muslims in this country.
You might not be able to say who beforehand.
And it could even be as we saw again in the case of New Orleans on New Year's Day or New Year's Eve, whereas an American veteran convert to Islam.
Then signed up with the vanguard of the terrorists on the other side to attack the United States of America.
But why?
For reasons, right?
And who knows?
He may have been off his pills or whatever, but I guarantee it was radical politics in those videos that he recorded about why he was doing that and why he had turned against the United States.
And so it's a continuing threat that we're going to have to deal with because essentially, because the American people in general, overall, have allowed themselves to be lied to and manipulated this way.
And, you know, hey, you got to forgive them.
But at the same time, we've had antiwar.com since 1995.
So, if you want to know the truth, it's there.
It has been.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Cosmic Treason says How can we deny intel agencies the ability to use paido compromise to get leverage over politicians as their sources and methods?
Well, I guess we can't.
Yeah.
We sure would like to, though.
How can we allow anything like that to exist in our country?
How could there be anything less than a fight over this?
And there's so many issues like this where, to me, it's like this is probably an outdated cliche, but it's like the proverbial needle scratching off the record at the party.
Wait a minute.
Everybody stop dancing.
Everybody stop talking.
We're going on general strike until we solve this problem, right?
Whether that's, I want everybody who helped Timothy McVeigh blow up Oklahoma City, I want them all to be hanged, not just him.
And I want a general strike until we get the truth about Oklahoma City and all of the guilty held accountable for that.
Same thing with who all, and this includes foreign intelligence agencies and governments as well as inside our government, who all knew about September 11th, knew enough that they could have helped to prevent it, et cetera.
I want accountability for Jeffrey Epstein.
Anybody who went to that island, I want them to have to testify in public.
They want to plead the fifth?
Let's see him plead the fifth.
About what were they doing at Epstein Island?
Didn't they know that that was Child Rapist Island?
And what was going on with that?
And for that matter, I'd like to see some Justice Department investigators publicly interrogated about what do you mean there was nothing on those CD ROMs or whatever it is, right?
There are specific questions where we absolutely deserve accountability on these things.
And Israel's entire role in America's political establishment and in America's government, I think.
Is one of those issues that it just absolutely has to be solved now.
And, you know, Arthur Bloom wrote that look, keep your enemies closer.
Okay.
So we don't want to kick Israel completely away and have them go and join up with China or Russia instead.
Boy, you think we got a problem with an Israeli fifth column in our country now.
How about when they outright switch sides against us and join up with other great powers?
But they need to be taken down a peg and they need to, their foreign lobby needs to be.
Forced to register as foreign agents, and all their foreign agents in this country must identify themselves as such, should be banned from participating in our domestic political campaigns and all of the rest of that.
And they must be taken down a peg.
We need a less dangerous and toxic prime minister in charge over there.
And any president could demand a new election, right?
Donald Trump could say, I'm sick and tired of Benjamin Netanyahu.
I wish they'd hold new elections over there.
They would hold new elections in two days.
That's as simple as that.
America absolutely has the power to make it happen.
And we need an entire reset on our relationship with this country.
It is a millstone around our neck.
It is a completely one sided relationship.
All cost for us and benefit for them.
And it's untenable.
It clearly is.
In fact, even if you were a pro Israel partisan, you should want to dial this back a little bit because people are getting really pissed and you're trading short term advantage for long term.
You're screwed.
We're going to never forgive you for a lot of this stuff.
Yeah, the gravy train is coming to a screeching halt.
That's right.
All right.
Well, it's getting late in the hour.
Let's do this.
We'll deal with any other super chats.
An Untenable Relationship00:01:39
For sure, and pertinent questions in our episode on Wednesday, so we can come back and address those.
But I want to be respectful of Scott's time and then my wife and kids.
I've got a play date that is coming up very, very shortly.
So let's let that be the end for today.
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And one last time for you, Scott, where can people follow your work?
Well, I guess the biggest thing would be to go check out my interview on The Tucker Carlson Show if you missed it.
It's from just July 4th.
That's when it ran.
And then my show is The Scott Horton Show, 6,000 something interviews going back.
And then read my books.
My book, Provoked, it should be right now at.
Nine months, wait, yeah, uh, at number one in War and Peace on Amazon.
Except I looked at it and it wasn't number one anymore, and I was like, What the hell?
And so I page down, I looked at the War and Peace list, and my last book, Enough Already, is number one again.
Ah, class.
So that's why Provoked isn't number one anymore.
Sometimes you just beat yourself.
That's right.
Uh, number one and number two in War and Peace is my Middle East book and my Cold War with Russia book, and that's everything I know about everything for you there if people want to catch up.