Donald Trump, Benjamin Netanyahu, and the coming separation with Israel dominate this episode as hosts analyze plummeting American support for Israel since 2017. They speculate Trump may sever ties due to Netanyahu's arrogance while critiquing Christian nationalists who prioritize Israel over American sovereignty. The discussion extends to rising anti-Semitism, contrasting Jewish narratives of unique persecution with German post-war experiences, and argues that immigration has fractured national unity. Ultimately, the hosts predict a potential US breakup into smaller nations, including a distinct Gulf Coast Christian state, warning that current policies have chosen defeat over restoration. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
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Why We Leave Five Star Reviews00:03:12
Leave us a five star review on your favorite podcast platform.
I get it.
It's annoying.
Everybody asks, but I'm going to tell you why.
When you give us a positive review, what that does is it triggers the algorithm so that our podcast shows up on more people's news feeds.
You and I both know that this ministry is willing to talk about things that most ministries aren't.
We need this content for the glory of God to reach more people's ears.
You can say anything in America except the wrong thing about Israel.
In the past six months, we've watched prominent intellectuals, professors, journalists, and even former allies of the conservative movement lose jobs or platforms simply for questioning whether the United States' relationship with Israel is just, wise, or even Christian.
Not because they denied Israel's right to exist, not because they justified Hamas, but because they dared to ask whether endless, unquestioned allegiance to a foreign nation is compatible with America first.
Meanwhile, public opinion is shifting.
Support for Israel is at a generational low, especially among younger Americans.
Donald Trump, arguably the most pro Israel president in history, has reportedly cut Netanyahu out of the negotiating process.
Something's changing.
But what exactly?
Is it just fatigue?
Another weary chapter in a long Middle East drama we no longer want to fund?
Or is it something deeper?
A theological reformation, a rejection of the Schofield system that bound American patriotism to Israeli foreign policy and bound the church to a dispensational timeline at odds with historic Christianity.
But here's the real tension.
Is this discussion already burning people out?
Is the Israel question fracturing coalitions that were making real headway elsewhere?
Brett Weinstein says it shattered the medical freedom movement.
Tucker Carlson notes that it's splintering MAGA.
Are we on the verge of letting an ancient and complex foreign conflict derail critical domestic work on the family, on the economy, on liberty?
This episode is brought to you by our premier sponsors, Armored Republic and Reese Fund, as well as our Patreon members and our faithful donors.
You can join our Patreon by going to patreon.com forward slash right response ministries.
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So, where do we go from here?
What does righteous strategic engagement look like now?
What should we say?
And when should we be silent?
And is it possible to call for clarity without fueling further division?
Let's talk about it.
We're still back.
The Divide in Israel Politics00:15:32
Here we are.
We are back again.
So, we have our very own Wesley Todd still out.
He is still in Hawaii.
Suffering.
Suffering.
And honestly, I'm a little skeptical of whether or not he'll ever come back.
That's right.
I don't know if I would.
But he's told us that he will come back at the end of this week.
So, we're live today.
We have something pre recorded for Wednesday, but it's good.
And I think it'll be helpful.
And so, you guys will just have to forgive us.
For a little bit of pre recorded material.
And then Friday, we'll be live again.
So, live on Monday, live on Friday, just Michael and I.
And the next week should be all three, all three, back in the saddle, ready to go.
So, I don't remember when I said this, Michael, but I did confirm with you before we started recording.
And so, you agreed that I did say it.
And because I feel like there's so many guys, so many political commentators or people on YouTube or whatever who are like, I called it, you know, and it's like, yeah, but you called like, Number one, it's like a shotgun method.
You know, like you called like a million different things.
Yeah, you, yeah.
And so, like, so you ended up being right, you know, on one of your 1 million different predictions.
So, but this one, I am pretty certain that I said Trump is unquestionably a Zionist.
Like, it's very clear that he loves him some Israel.
However, I said if there's anything that gets Trump to kind of pull back and maybe sever some ties, It would be that, as devoted as Trump may be to Israel, Trump is devoted to nothing more than Trump.
And Trump loves himself some Trump.
And so I was thinking, you know what?
I could see Trump literally changing the entire future of American foreign policy over a personal grievance.
Yep.
And I could see like Netanyahu, you know, riding in on his high horse as he typically does, acting as though he owns the place, and Trump just his ego alone just being like, Nope, that's it.
You've washed your laundry at the White House too many times, which he literally has done.
No, you're insulting to me.
You're insulting to our people.
And I'm over it.
We're done.
80 year long relations between America and Israel done because, as Vance would have said, but have you said thank you even once?
And I think that's part of what's going on with the Trump administration, whether it's Zelensky or whether now it's Bibi, is Trump and Vance to a certain degree.
They're like, no, you need to appreciate America.
You are at our mercy.
We're not at yours.
This is not a mutual relationship.
This is not a two way street where Ukraine has done so much for America.
I mean, they've done a lot for the previous administration, like harboring secrets and being the money purse for all these kinds of corruptions.
But in terms of America as a nation, the American people, Ukraine's done nothing.
And so this has always been a one way street.
And with Trump and Vance, I think, you know, their general sentiment is if you're going to be too big for your britches and you're going to be arrogant and unappreciative and rude, show up to, you know, the White House in a tracksuit, you know, whatever, if you're Zelensky or washing your dirty laundry at the White House, if you're, which that's not beating the Jewish stereotypes, you know, when it's like you're the prime minister of Israel and you're like, this is a chance.
I'm visiting Trump today.
This is a chance to get some free dry cleaning, you know, like, it's like that's, these are why we have certain stereotypes.
So, The point is, I kind of called this one and saying I could see a divide.
That said, the final thing I'll say, and then I'm going to hand it to you because you've got a lot of material today that I'm excited about us getting to.
But I will say this.
There are multiple moments where it's like, we got them now.
We got them in the crosshairs.
Big change is going to happen.
But you just need to be aware, guys, this is what bad guys do.
Okay.
Bad guys of any stripe, whether it's a false church or whether it's a bad political party or whether it's a corrupt country or whatever, the bad guys, in a general sense, this is what they do.
When you got them in the crosshairs, And it's irrefutable evidence, and you're finally caught.
What they will do is they will kind of a Jonah scenario.
They'll take the guy that you actually got dead to rights and they'll say, yep, he really was a bad guy, and you're right, you nailed it, way to go.
But this whole apparatus, that's different.
That's completely separate.
This is what the Democrat Party did when all of a sudden, For it's not, they literally pretended that they were just as surprised and just as shocked and like, uh, as everybody else.
It's like we were saying in the primaries before Joe Biden was even the front running Democrat candidate for the 2020 election that the dude is not there.
I mean, the guy like clearly has dementia or something, he's he's just he's he's not cognitive, he's not there.
And then and then they just kept hiding it and kept hiding, like, oh, and and all of them and like lip sync.
You know, all synchronized together, every media station, like they would use even the same phrases, sharp as attack.
He's sharp as attack, you know.
And then all of a sudden, the debate happens between Trump and Joe Biden, and that beautiful line where, you know, Trump is like, I don't know what he just said.
I don't even think he knows what he just said, you know.
And it was like, we got him dead to rights.
And so, what did the Democrat Party do?
They admitted, yeah, we have been playing the American people for the last four years.
And honestly, you know, it's probably a good time to just confess our sins and live in the light and be honest.
Really, we've been playing the American people for decades and decades.
We've lied about this.
We've been corrupt about that.
And yes, we all knew that Joe Biden had dementia and that he was not fit to serve.
And we've been running the White House, you know, and the administration behind the scenes.
We even signed certain documents for him.
It wasn't his signature.
We've done all these things.
And so we would like to recuse ourselves.
We're simply taking this moment as a party because we've all been behind it.
We're all guilty.
We are resigning as an entire political party in America.
We are not fit to lead.
We are corrupt.
And we pray that the other half of the country would forgive us.
That's what we saw happen, right?
No.
Instead, what we see happen is that, oh my goodness, we had no idea.
Joe Biden, somebody was lying to us, telling us that he was mentally fit when he wasn't.
And I guess the Bidens aren't that great.
And they deceived the Democrat, the poor, precious, innocent Democrat party has been hoodwinked by the Bidens.
And we had no idea.
And maybe that actually was Hunter Biden's crack cocaine in the White House, you know?
Like, oh my goodness, the Bidens are terrible.
We will not tolerate.
This kind of behavior and corruption and lies in our party.
And so we're getting rid of them.
And so my point is, you just keep on going.
So, all that said, my first prediction about a week or two ago, I said, I think we could see a major split between Trump and Netanyahu, not because Trump is not a Zionist, not because he's, you know, for any ideological reason or genuine convictions, but just for a petty personal reason, just because Netanyahu is full of himself and will almost inevitably.
Personally offend Trump.
And Trump won't have it because that's just the type of person that Trump is.
So nailed that.
That said, if you think, all right, America is finally going to be disentangled from Israel, my prediction, I'm making another prediction now Netanyahu will be just like Joe Biden.
He'll be the next Jonah.
And so, what the Democrats did with Sleepy Joe, Israel will do with Netanyahu.
If Trump and Netanyahu, if that relationship doesn't mend, that could also happen.
But if it doesn't mend, then what we'll see in the coming weeks or months, my prediction is sometime probably this year.
We'll see Israel say, yep, you know what?
He really was boastful, arrogant, he was rude.
And comes to find out, we found some discrepancies and inconsistencies and some signs of corruption.
And we, the nation of Israel and Israeli intelligence and Israeli political leaders, we do not tolerate subversion.
We do not tolerate corruption when it comes to political leaders.
And we're standing by our principles as a country.
And as a nation, and we're removing Netanyahu so that we can once again be the greatest ally of the United States.
It wouldn't be hard to do that.
I've seen a number of reports.
In fact, I didn't include this clip today, but even one of the guys that's in one of the clips today talks about the fact that Netanyahu has been to Israel, kind of what Biden and the Democrats were to the U.S. There's a lot of disfavorability towards Netanyahu already in Israel.
A lot.
And he's seen as a bully, he's seen as just going out doing his own thing.
It would not be hard for this to be a tipping point for Israel to move him aside.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
No, I've heard that too.
That's part of why I feel confident in that prediction is not just that I think it would work for Trump or it would work for Americans, but I've literally heard from people in Israel who are more conservative say, yeah, we don't like him either.
Israel doesn't really like him.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, that leads us to what we want to talk about today.
So over the weekend, the story broke and it was small.
Like I had a hard time finding U.S. news picking up the story until today, which was after I'd already sent the.
The information to Nathan.
So today it's on the New York Times and all over, but over the weekend it was on Twitter and it was on Middle Eastern news agencies.
So the news that was breaking over the weekend was that things are on the outs between Netanyahu and Trump, that they are, that Trump in particular is upset with Netanyahu and in particular the idea that he has to clear everything that he does in the Middle East with Netanyahu first.
So let's just show a couple of these stories.
I think it's interesting, in particular, well, I'll get there in a minute, but Nate, let's go ahead and look at image number one.
This is kind of the first place that maybe some people saw it.
It was this Twitter post, and I'm not going to read the whole thing, but just breaking the friendship between Trump and Netanyahu is over.
And it was reported by Israeli Army Radio that President Trump had decided to cut contact with Netanyahu.
This is especially important because Trump has, I believe, a trip to the Middle East.
Maybe it's this week now because it was saying last week, or maybe it's even next week.
And the reports are that with his traveling to the Middle East to negotiate a whole bunch of things, he is cutting Netanyahu out.
Of that process.
He's not going to be running things through him or even by him.
He's just going to do his own negotiating.
So that's kind of where, at least I saw it break.
Nate, let's go to the next image.
This was from the New Israel Times.
So there's just a headline and there's a story below that report.
Trump is, quote, disappointed with Netanyahu and will continue Middle East policy and objectives without Israel.
So, and then this next one, Nate, graph number three, is the one that I really find interesting because this is Senator.
Not Senator.
He's a, what is it called when you go?
Ambassador, thank you.
Ambassador Mike Huckabee, who is a huge Israel fan, right?
And he's been a prominent Christian in politics for a long time, but very Zionist, very pro Israel.
And he said this Huckabee says that the U.S. is not required, quote, not required to get permission from Israel to cut a deal with the Houthis.
Wow.
And so when you've got Mike Huckabee, who was appointed as the ambassador, To Israel because he is very, very pro Israel.
And he's saying, look, guys, we don't have to run everything through them.
We can do our own dealing in the Middle East.
That is a big deal.
That to me, as far as the mood shift in the country, is a bigger deal than just Trump having a personal grievance.
Yeah, that's exactly what I'm glad you pointed that out.
That's more, and that gives me some hope.
And actually, I want to be careful here, not white pill too hard because the we're so back moments set you up for massive disappointment when you inevitably come to the we're so over moments.
But that does give me some hope that it's beyond just, you know, Trump and, you know, just personally offended by Netanyahu and going around him, but all the Israel, you know, American relations still remain the same.
But if you have other guys beyond just Trump and other guys who historically have been very, very pro Israel, and they're not just talking about Netanyahu, but they're saying just in general, we do not report to Israel.
We don't work for Israel.
We're not subservient to Israel.
We can make our own decisions.
That's now we're talking.
Yep.
Now it's like, all right, get the boys.
This is a little bit encouraging.
Yep.
And that, for whatever reason, it's really hard to say why change on massive scales happens.
People in the future will look back at times where there are huge shifts in the wind or the political perspective, and they'll come up with theories, they'll write books.
It's really hard, especially in the moment, but even historically, to point out and put your finger on exactly why.
A sort of political or social change culturally happens.
But one of the things that we can notice in real time is that it definitely is happening.
And so, Nate, let's look at this last image of the images here.
So, this is a graph that shows Americans' sympathies in the Middle East situation.
And so, now this is compared to Palestine, right?
But so it's been the conflict with Palestine has been going on long enough.
That they've been tracking this data since 2000 at least.
So, this is 25 years worth of data.
And the conflict, just for the record, conflict's been a lot longer than that.
Agreed.
Right.
But this is just how long they've been tracking it through this system.
Yeah.
So, this is 25 years of data.
And it's not that there's a huge spike or drop off.
There were some spikes and jumps in the past.
But generally speaking, through about 2015, support for Israel increased gradually.
And support for Palestine either stayed the same or went down a little bit.
But since about 2017, And 18, that number, the support for Israel, now it hasn't fallen off a cliff, but it's been pretty quickly dropping.
And support for Palestine in the conflict has been increasing to the point that now about 46% of people say that they side with Israel.
Whereas, say, for reference to those listening in 2019, it was about 65% of Americans sided with Israel.
That's significant.
That's a third of all.
That is, yeah.
And then about 33% siding with Palestine in the.
So, in 25 years, just for those who can't see the graph, in 25 years, this is the highest.
Sympathies towards Palestine that there's ever been.
Shifting Sympathies Toward Palestine00:12:35
And the lowest.
And the lowest for Israel.
Not sympathy, but antipathy, I guess, towards Israel.
Right.
And that's coming on the heels of after October 7th and those things.
And so it's like, and that was the biggest, just about, if I can see, I think the biggest drop from 24 to 25 was the most significant decrease.
Maybe back in 2003.
Okay, yeah.
So maybe it's steeper here.
I think it's steeper.
So I think the steepest drop off of sympathies towards Israel is that from 2024 to 2025.
So this last year.
And that being on the heels of the October 7th attack that happened with Israel.
And so it's like, okay, so what accounts for this?
And I don't know.
That's a good question.
Maybe we can explore, but I think at least part of it is I don't think it's just the news headlines.
I think part of it is because you have more content and information, arguably, than ever before.
Certainly in my lifetime, that is not flattering towards Israel, but also not being suppressed.
You can find it readily, accessibly on the internet.
And I think a lot of people are reading and looking.
That said, I think that sharp decline is not just the accessibility of content that is not flattering towards Israel, but I also think Israel's reaction to October 7th is a big factor.
Because I think initially, It was, I mean, everyone, you know, October 7th happened and a lot of people were, you know, Israel flags were, you know, prevalent.
Everybody's, you know, we love Israel.
We love Israel.
How dare you do this to Israel?
But now that, you know, we've got some time under our belt and more and more people have seen the headlines and how Israel has chosen to respond and seen, you know, pictures of dead babies, you know, being pulled out of rubble.
And, you know, and then one of the things that hurts, you know, support for Israel is the guys who support Israel.
I mean, you've got guys online, like I can think of a few of them, like who are like literally without being hyperbolic.
This is a paraphrase, but it's not an exaggeration.
This is the sentiment of what some of these guys I see online.
They're like, I don't care how many dead babies it takes, how many corpses, you know, of women or whatever it takes, kill them all, level them, destroy.
Like, and you're like, oh my goodness, dude, just take a chill pill.
Like, I've never seen.
Seriously, in my lifetime, I've never seen the bloodlust that I have seen for supporters of Israel, not even the Israelis themselves, but Americans, Americans who are Zionists, who support Israel.
I mean, find you some, like you talk about, like, I don't, I think Nero would blush, Emperor Nero.
I think, you know, like, I think Hitler would be, he'd be like, guys, this is extreme.
You know, like, you find the average American Zionist.
And the excitement they feel about dead Palestinian babies.
You find, like, go and look at Attila the Hun, or go and look, like, those guys seem more compassionate than the average American Zionist when he's talking about dead babies in Palestine.
It is.
And so I'm just saying.
I mean, I don't know about the average, but maybe not the average.
There were some notable.
This is a many such cases kind of scenario.
Yeah.
So maybe not average.
That's probably a little too far, but not one or two.
Yeah.
And not just, this is not just from anonymous accounts with 47 followers.
I'm talking major accounts, face behind the account, doing not just tweeting, but then they get, you know, like they get a lot of pushback, understandably so, because they're talking to, I mean, like, we love dead babies in Palestine.
And then they're doing videos doubling down like, yes, I said what I meant and I meant what I said.
A dead baby in Palestine, we need it.
And, And so, my point is, that's the sharpest decline in sympathies towards Israel of any year to year, one year period, 24 to 25.
And I think that's probably got something to do with it because I think Israel has, in many ways, attempted to use October 7th as the final justification to finally go and just level anybody that they don't like.
Well, I'll give credit because I don't want to steal the idea.
I was listening to Knowles on the way in, and he brought up the comment that Trump made after he won the election in November ish.
And his comment was basically he was addressing Netanyahu, but not to him.
It was a public press conference.
And he said, Israel, do what you need to do because when I get in, I'm going to end the war.
And Knowles' point today was looking at some of this stuff and some of the way even Trump.
Um, you know, has made comments about I wouldn't have given you 3.5 billion, you got a much better deal for my predecessors than for me.
His point was, Trump doesn't want any fighting, like that's kind of core to who he is.
And his comment back then was, If you're gonna end this thing the way you want to, you better have done it before I get in because once I get in, you're gonna end it the way I want you to, right?
Um, which I thought you know was an interesting point, but your comment, Joel, last thing I'll say here and then we'll go to our break.
Your comment about the Twitter and the videos about the dead babies in Palestine goes to prove the point that we've been starting to make and have made a couple times on this show.
Every single person understands and advocates for something like Christian nationalism.
The Baptist just wants it over alcohol and carpet colors.
Right.
Right.
Every single person understands imprecatory Psalms.
Yep.
It just is, we can't have that feeling for our own people.
Right.
Right.
It can only be, all the things that we're advocating for.
We all actually, it's not even that we don't understand it.
We do understand it.
We do.
We've just been told it has to be placed in the wrong direction.
Right.
No, you're absolutely right.
I mean, and you see, I mean, that principle is demonstrated for us almost on a daily basis online.
Again, from major accounts, and a lot of them, you know, Christian or at least professing Christian, that are, you know, like you'll see like something happens where Hamas does X, Y, and Z.
And you'll see the usual suspects, your Joel Berrys or an Owen Strawn, who will come out, and the language will be I remember there's one tweet, again, I have to paraphrase it because I don't have a photographic memory.
I don't have it memorized exactly, but something along the lines of Owen Strawn saying, completely destroy them, turn it to glass, level.
But then when Christian nationalists, a year earlier, were talking about.
We want the nation to be Christian, and we believe that there should not be public promotions of false religion, that those must be suppressed.
There's a difference in a private family worshiping Allah, we believe is a false God, but doing so in their home.
That's different than some kind of Islamic statue or parade or something.
And all of these blasphemies, all of these things that are anti Christ in their public expressions must be completely suppressed.
We are a Christian nation.
And with those kinds of statements from the Christian nationalists, the same guys, your Owen Strongs would be like, this is terrible.
This is, it's anti American.
It's anti Baptist.
I remember hearing a lot of that rhetoric.
Right.
Because what does it mean to be Baptist?
Well, what it means to be Baptist, apparently, according to some Baptists, is.
That the highest allegiance and call of the Baptist is to ensure the worship of false gods across the street next door.
And so it's like this is inhumane, this is extreme, this is hate filled rhetoric.
But that's when a Christian nationalist who loves his country and wants to see it Christian, that's when he's talking.
That's the kind of response you're going to get.
But when Israel, that is not Christian, Worships a false God.
When all of a sudden there's some kind of injustice done to them, then the same guys who say, you can't have a Christian nation, you can't suppress enemies, you can't do that, like, then immediately they're like, turn it to glass, level every building, kill every person.
And it's, I mean, it is a sight to behold.
The last two years for me, just looking at the rhetoric and the discourse online from Christians, from Christians, the way they speak about Israel.
I mean, guys, you know, out there who are listening, if you're single, find you a woman that loves the Lord and loves you the way that Owen Strawn loves Israel.
I mean, my goodness.
I get like a wife of that caliber and that fidelity.
Who can find?
I don't know if it even exists, but I've never seen such allegiance.
And I've also never seen such in the opposite direction such hatred, such vitriol, such.
And so you're exactly right, Michael, that we are.
Totally fine with friend enemy distinctions.
We're fine with that framing.
We're fine with even extreme measures.
We're fine with all these things that we say, well, that's not Christian or that's not American or that's not Baptist.
Really, we're fine with all those things times 10.
We're just not fine with those things if they're to the benefit, the prosperity, the well being, and blessing of America, Christianity, white people.
That's when it becomes terrible, terrible, unjust.
But if it's to the benefit of another country besides our own, another religion besides our own, another people besides our own, then it's great.
That's kind of what I've learned over the last two years.
Yeah.
Okay, let's hit our first commercial break and then we'll come back and we're going to jump into some clips.
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All right.
So I was doing some thinking over the last couple of days.
And in particular, I saw a study from Pew Research Center.
And this was from the end of 2024.
So I think December of 2024.
So not that long ago.
And it was talking about the social media patterns and which social media platforms are used the most.
And it broke it down by age and demographic.
And Nathan, I'm just now realizing that I didn't send this to you.
So you guys will have to take my word for it.
But.
And what was really interesting to me was that X was one of the lowest used social media platforms in America, even when broken down by age group.
Now, it was better.
It's more popular a young 18 to 30 year olds, but then it is 18 to 80 year olds, right?
But still, even when you only look at 18 to 30 year olds, it's still one of the lower.
Used social media platforms, such as YouTube, Facebook, Snapchat, was up there still amazingly.
Instagram, of course, some of the other ones.
X was actually pretty low, like less than 30%, even for the 18, about 35%, 18 to 30 year olds are on X.
So, my point is this I'm assuming our average listener is on X.
We broadcast on X.
A lot of the discussion about Israel and Zionism and all of those things.
Is happening on X, right?
And ons and we tell ourselves that X is the public square.
The reality is there are a majority, a vast majority of Americans who don't have an X account.
And those who use social media aren't necessarily using X, right?
They're using other ones.
So the question that I want to explore here for a little while with some of these clips is are we going not in the right direction with the Israel question, but are we making the headway that we think we are?
Are people tired like nationally?
Are people just getting tired of the discussion?
Are they joining the discussion?
Are they saying that this discussion is too polarized and they can't actually even have a normal conversation with someone about it?
Because as soon as they bring it up, it's either I hate your position or I love your position.
So what I want to do, Joel, is play some clips from a couple of different podcasts that have recently talked about this issue.
And each of them, each of the podcasts kind of has a different, like I'm just tired of the topic or I can't even have a good discussion because every time I do, I get yelled at.
Or maybe we're not going hard enough into this question.
Right.
Okay.
So, really interesting, but three, and so for the record, I'm not saying that we're agreeing with these three different kinds of perspectives on the Israel discussion.
I just want us to be aware that there are different perspectives on the Israel question, even kind of on the right, and see what lessons we can take from that.
Okay.
Okay.
So, this first series of clips is from Tim Poole, and he was interviewing Myron Gaines, who, as I understand it, Immigrated from Canada and is now a U.S. citizen, but he is a second generation, maybe Somali, but definitely a Muslim.
Okay.
Yep.
I'm familiar with him.
I've seen some of his stuff.
And so on the show, he is obviously pleading the case of the Palestinians in the Middle East.
And he is very, very, I mean, he would say a lot of things that we would say about Israel's outsized influence on the US.
And Tim Pool is going to acknowledge those things.
But Tim Pool is going to just say, it's not so much anti Israel for me, it's America first for me.
And it would be, I think, very similar to maybe what Trump would say.
Okay.
Okay.
So let's take a look here.
There's several clips.
We're going to try and play them somewhat quickly, but we do have to pause between them just to break it up and things like that.
So, Nate, let's roll the first clip here.
He says, My parents were immigrants.
My parents fought hard to come to this country.
I understand what they want and why they want it.
I'm going to fight for those values.
Well, I was born in America with multiple generations going back hundreds of years, save my grandmother who came from Korea.
I have all of these family members coming hundreds of years who fought in a revolutionary war, who fought in a civil war, and whose moral traditions have landed with me.
And so, what I say is, I understand, Ro, why you want to fight for illegal immigrants, but you came to this country, your parents came here, and you are now a citizen.
You have access to everything we offer you because we are nice, we are good people.
But when you start advocating for non citizens, people not from this country, this creates two worldviews that are at odds with each other, and there's no off ramp.
People in this country who are saying, if you're not a citizen, so what?
You can live here.
And what ends up happening?
You get, whether it's what everyone wants to say about the Haitians, you get reports from the locals that they were eating cats.
Is it wrong to eat cats?
Well, people in America don't take kindly to that, but in Haiti, they do eat cats.
You see, there's a cultural clash.
In Dearborn, Michigan, you get reports of female genital mutilation.
Well, a lot of people don't take kindly to that.
You get in the Somali community in Minnesota similar stories.
So the people who are born and bred and raised in America, who are sitting beneath trees their ancestors planted, our focus, On what we are going to build for this country is rooted in a long standing American tradition.
We all know the lesson of the Native Americans.
The left can bring it up all they want.
We get it.
Colonization destroys civilizations and communities and all that stuff.
We don't want that to happen to us.
The simple version is this if we prioritize the speech rights of non citizens and people who are guests in this country, if we prioritize the rights of illegal immigrants, this country will evaporate.
So, Myron was saying it was unjust that the Trump administration deported.
People for the pro Palestinian, anti Israel demonstrations.
Tim's point is I don't care who you are, you don't get to come here and tell us how to run our country.
Yeah, I would like to deport people like that, immigrants like that, without having to add the disclaimer of they said something anti Semitic.
Correct.
I would like to deport them just because they shouldn't be here.
And that's exactly what Myron says.
He says, yeah, but.
You could have been writing the same exact article and burning the same flags if they were American.
Yes.
And still be a foreigner and not get deported.
Yeah, no.
So if that was Myron's argument, it was.
Yep.
Then I agree with him 100%.
I haven't watched that episode, but I agree with him 100%.
Because even that is ultimately a betrayal of your own country.
It's basically saying we can't actually stand up for America in and of itself.
We have to have some kind of adjacent, ulterior fidelity and allegiance in order to.
Have a spine in order to take action.
So, where do we draw the line as Americans when you're burning the American flag or when you're burning the Israeli flag?
And the answer, sadly, in large part, I think is like you can burn the American flag with impunity.
Not just as a citizen, which is already terrible, but you could literally do it as an immigrant who's not even a citizen.
You can be burning the American flag while proudly waving the nation that you came from.
Which I don't understand.
I don't get that.
Right.
Like, if you love that nation so much, go back.
Why are you here?
Right.
White people are oppressive.
Then, how come everybody wants to live where the white people are?
Right.
I just would love for someone to answer that question.
If white people are so terrible, why does everyone want to live in all the countries that white people started?
I don't get that.
So, I'm here.
I'm waving the flag for my country back home.
I really love that.
I'm burning your flag.
And you know what?
That's yeah, America will tolerate that.
Maybe a slap on the wrist.
Maybe.
But then you burn some other foreign country's flag.
Well, let's be honest, one other foreign country's flag, namely Israel.
And now, now we're going to lay down the law.
And so that was Myron's argument.
Then I agree with him 100%.
That said, I'd love to see him deported too.
Yes, right.
Well, and to Tim's credit, he says, doesn't say Myron specifically, but he says, we don't need Canadian podcasters coming down here telling us how to run our country.
Correct.
Now, the reason I bring this up is because.
Shortly into this discussion, Myron pushes back on him.
A super chat comes in, which basically I think was, I think Tim will read it.
It's basically everything is all Israel's fault.
And I'm going to steel man Tim here for a second.
I think he reacts pretty strongly, which is why I play this clip.
Tim?
Tim does.
Okay.
And I think Tim loves himself some Israel.
Well, to steel man it.
But he actually has been pushing back against the James Lindsay's and the Woke Runs 100%.
Like, because I've kind of been done with Tim Poole, to be honest.
Yep.
I play him because a lot of people.
He's the last.
He just has encouraged me.
He's the number one or two live podcast on YouTube every day.
No, yeah, he's worth listening to.
Just getting your fingers on the pulse and figuring out what are some of the normie right guys thinking.
Okay, so we're going to play his clip.
I'm going to give my, I guess, steel man on it, and then I want to get your reaction to it.
So let's roll clip two here.
I'm sorry to interrupt you, but it's a super chat from this dude, Blackest Panther, saying, Tim, you're logically inconsistent.
Why are you more likely to be deported for burning an Israeli flag than an American flag?
Yo.
I don't care about your retarded obsession with Israel.
Yeah, it's not that it's about it.
Shut up, you Israel-obsessed moron.
It's about the trade war.
I don't care.
Stop.
I don't care if it's Ukraine.
I don't care if it's Israel.
I don't care if it's Afghanistan.
I don't care where you're from.
I don't care if you're from Japan.
If you're from Japan, you come to this country and they start protesting and declaring that Americans should change our behavior for you, get out.
And then, you know, I got to be honest.
When I hear people defending non-citizens coming in and trying to dictate American governmental policy, they have no right to do this.
And then they say, Well, but it's because Israel.
Okay, I get it.
You're obsessed.
Your brain is rotted from your skull because the only thing you think about is Israel.
I care about all the countries that are trying to negatively impact the United States.
We've got to deal with Venezuela sending people from their prisons.
Now, I know it's semantic.
They're not literally taking people out of prisons, putting them on a bus, and saying, go to America.
They're releasing them and saying, get out of the country, go there instead.
We don't want you.
And then when they come here, Donald Trump says, we want to send these Venezuelan gangs and prisoners, former prisoners, cons, and criminals back to Venezuela.
They say, no.
So, what does he do?
He cuts a deal with El Salvador.
These are criminals from Venezuela.
You take them.
We don't want them.
The Democrats then say, we're going to keep them here.
And then you super chat, but to Israel.
This is why our country is being screwed over and mercilessly beaten.
And it's why we're facing these catastrophes that we're facing, okay?
Because of the myopic view of so many people.
I do these debates and conversations, and they're focused on one super stupid.
Let me put it this way.
During Occupy Wall Street, one of the most amazing moments was when some guy stood up during the General Assembly and he screamed out, What is wrong with you people?
The only thing we need to focus on is fracking, it is the center of all of our problems.
And I thought, My God.
There are people that live in bubbles.
They only see one thing.
That's the only thing they care about.
Me, I got a bubble.
I do.
It's America.
So if it's Venezuela, if it is Ukraine, if it is Russia, Iran, China, Israel, or otherwise, and they're negatively impacting us, I'm going to say, stop.
I don't want to be involved in this.
All right.
So my question is I think a lot of people would probably agree with Tim.
They would say, you are overly focused on the negatives from Israel.
I'm saying that they would say that to us.
Right.
And there's a whole lot of other ills out there as well.
Right.
And so I think Tim would say, I'm frustrated because every time we try and make headway, we get some guy who comes in here and says, it's just Israel.
That's the skeleton key.
And there's other problems.
Right.
So, right.
Yeah.
Well, again, I haven't seen the full context and other things that were being said in that conversation.
But that basic principle, if we're just saying, if basically all we're saying is, You know what, dig a little deeper and find, you know, there's some extra hate in your heart that you can evenly disperse to other groups.
Loving Enemies and Justice00:04:34
You don't have to just hate Israel, you know, you can hate Islam as well, you know, and like, then yeah, sure, I'm for that.
Like, I, there's a lot of things, a lot of countries I hate, a lot of ideologies I hate, a lot of false religions I hate, and I hate them all.
So, if that's the argument, is like, Joel, like, we're concerned that you're just, you're hating Judaism in isolation.
Then that is a concern.
And I need to, you know, I'm going to go in prayer and I'm going to humbly ask the Lord, Lord, give me more hate so that I have enough, you know, to where I can hate Judaism as much as I do without compromising an inch, but be able to hate Islam just as much in addition.
Now, that said, you know, I'm being a little facetious, but not really.
And I would say, by the grace of God, I actually don't need to pray that prayer because I actually already hate both Islam and Judaism.
With a fierce hatred.
As David says in the Psalms, do I not hate those?
He doesn't just say that, not just things, not just ideas, but he says, do I not hate those who hate you?
Yes, I hate them with a perfect hatred, or some translations say with a complete hatred.
I hate the enemies of God.
I absolutely do, wherever they can be found.
At the same time, because of a whole biblical theology and the words of Christ, I also love the enemies of God.
So we're called to love our enemies.
And pray for those who persecute us.
And I don't think that those two things are at odds.
I know that it sounds on its face to be a contradiction.
It seemingly seems to be a paradox.
But while we were yet sinners, God demonstrated his love for us in this that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
So it's not that God finally loved us enough to send his own son to die for us after we had already been made lovely.
But no, it's while we were unlovable, Jesus died to make us lovable.
But only because God pre loved us.
So God loved us while we were yet unlovable, and He loved us when we were unlovable enough to send Jesus to make us lovable.
And so I take the words of Jesus to be the same application as it pertains to us that I'm called to love my enemies, not because they're lovable.
I'm called to love my enemies and following, emulating the example of Christ.
He loved me when I wasn't lovable.
So I'm called to genuinely love my enemies and I'm called to pray for those who persecute me.
But I talked about this yesterday on the Lord's Day a little bit at church.
But these things are not at odds.
I can love my enemies and pray for those who persecute me, and I can do so.
As I'm walking them hand in hand to the guillotine.
Right.
Justice is not at odds with love.
And so you can genuinely love someone.
And yet, if it's a public enemy, and not just sins, but those sins which biblically should and must be also categorized as crimes, then if somebody is a public criminal, and it's something that biblically speaking merits the death penalty, then that person is an enemy that you love.
So you preach the gospel to them, you plead.
With them that they might repent and come to saving faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, and you pray for them.
What are you praying for?
You're praying for their eternal joy because you're praying for their conversion, you're praying for their salvation, and all the while doing this, and also in this temporal world and in a civil sphere, you're also holding court and producing evidence that ultimately indicts them and finds them guilty, and then walking them down to the noose or the guillotine or the electric chair or whatever.
Is permissible in your country, you know, whatever those means are, justice and love are not at odds.
Justice and love are not at odds.
So, all that being said, yeah, I hate Judaism.
I hate it.
And I hate Islam.
And I pray for both Jews and Muslims that God, in His kindness, in the same way that He was kind with me when I was once a child of His wrath and an enemy of God, God saved me when I was unlovable and He made me lovable by the blood of His Son.
And so I pray that God does that for Muslims, and I pray that God does that for Jews.
And so that's a genuine prayer.
That's a genuine heart affection and love for these people.
Hate and Prayer Coexist00:15:09
But none of that, we're just blurring categories.
So I can do that at a spiritual, ultimate, eternal level.
And it's genuine.
It's not just pretty words, it's not just platitudes.
You can genuinely do that.
Really pray for your enemies and really love them and ask the Lord to save them that they might become brothers and sisters in Christ.
That you actually have profound, deep friendship and relationship with in eternity.
And you can do that, you can mean it, you can believe it, and you can also say, get out of our country or we'll kill you.
Those two things are not at odds with one another.
So, what Tim's saying in that particular clip, for me, it's a little bit difficult because I've just, I've seen, I've listened to enough of Tim Poole and I've seen enough of his tweeting.
Again, to his credit though, I really appreciate the last few days.
As he's been kind of going back and forth with James Lindsay and saying, guys, you're just liberals.
You're not actually on the right.
You were never on the right.
You're just liberals who are trying to smear the actual, the real right, ascendant right, real right, whatever you want to call it, by calling it woke.
And you know what you're doing.
And this is deceptive and it's wrong.
And you're doing it from this pretended position of, I'm critiquing my own party.
I'm critiquing the right as a member of the right.
No, you're not.
Since when is James Lindsay and Bill Maher and these, like, I mean, think about it.
These are guys who love baby murder.
They have voted for every Democrat policy there ever was until it came to chopping off the genitals of children.
It was literally, it was not until we started talking about chopping off children's genitals that they were like, okay, now that's where I draw the line.
You're talking about wicked people.
Joel, I've been thinking since last week, or maybe it was one of the recorded episodes we did, this thought has just been churning in my mind.
I think you're right.
I think there's a point where kind of a reasonable person sees what we're doing with the transgender movement and says, okay, that's a line that cannot be crossed.
But on a systematic level, I think the only reason, I won't speak individually.
I won't impugn their motives, but people like Lindsay and Marr and the academics who were liberal, but benefiting from the way the system was, there's a very cynical side of me that says the only reason why they began to object to any of this was because it threatened to overthrow The enlightenment neocon liberalism 100 that had existed for so long and had benefited them so tremendously.
Yes, no, that's it.
That's it.
It's, um, yeah, when all of a sudden, uh, it wasn't a merit based system anymore, right?
And all of a sudden, somebody you know could get their peer review study approved in some you know some journal, um, on the basis of the color of their skin because.
They had more melanin, you know, and a darker skin tone.
Then James Lindsay got upset.
Yep.
That upset James Lindsay because now it's actually threatening his occupation, what he cares about.
Yes.
What he's, and to be fair to James Lindsay, what he actually has worked hard at.
Yeah.
James Lindsay did a lot of reading, a lot of writing, a lot of study.
And all of a sudden, when those things were starting to lose their value unfairly, and somebody else who did not do the reading, did not do the study, Is getting accolades and getting credentials simply on the basis of the color of their skin.
Now, James Lindsay is a conservative all of a sudden.
So I'm just answering your objection.
I said it was, so basically, to sum this up for those listening, I said it's not until they started chopping off, mutilating children that they said that's it, that's the line, that's a step too far.
And Michael very respectfully, Basically, if I can interpret it, you objected and said, actually, Joel, for someone like James Lindsay and Bill Maher, I don't even know if that was a line.
I think they might even be fine with that.
It was when their own, it wasn't that they care so much for the 12 year old girl who's having her breast chopped off.
Actually, it might have just been their own personal credentials being threatened.
That actually might be the only line that ever got them, even for a moment, as brief as it was.
Which is why they're reacting to the woke right because it's doing the same thing.
Right.
Yeah, to them.
To them.
To them.
Yeah.
It's not the same thing, but that's what they're trying to make it sound like tomato, tomato, woke left, woke right.
But it is threatening the new space that they carved out for themselves.
Yes.
It is threatening their accolades, their opportunities, the public perception of who they are.
And so, in that sense, woke left, woke right, which woke right's not a thing, but just humor us for a moment.
Pretend that it was woke left and woke right, they are the same.
Yep.
I'll go on record saying it publicly.
They are the same.
If we mean by that, uh, that they both threatened James Lindsay, that's right.
Then, in that sense, yes, they are the same.
And that's precisely why Lindsay hates them both.
But all that being said, back to the topic at hand, what I was going to say is I really appreciate Tim Poole the last few days putting some pressure and some pushback on this whole woke right discourse and pushing back on James.
So I really appreciate that.
That said, I got to a place, not that I was an avid Tim Poole listener on a regular basis, but I would tune in from time to time, like you said, Michael.
It's just, I think it's a good, Good kind of finger in the air, you know, fingers on the pulse, and just the general sentiment of where's the average normie, you know, neocon type, you know, normal person on the right, the guy who just wants to grill in his backyard, leave me alone, you know, don't tread on me, you know, that kind of guy.
And Tim Pool, I think, is a good representation of where that guy is at.
He represents millions of people, not, you know, he does.
And so for that reason, I think there's value there.
But even listening with that purpose, I kind of dropped off and I stopped listening because it just seemed like he started shilling for Israel.
It really just seemed like he was willing to say some fairly courageous things in 2020, 2021, even 2022.
But then all of a sudden, it just seemed like, all right, he just, you know, he's been bought.
It just felt, you know, and.
Whatever.
And so I kind of, you know, tuned out.
But all that being said, back to his point the point that he made in that clip in isolation without the larger temple context, the backdrop, I agree with that point 100%.
Like any allegiance to any other country, then here's the deal go there.
Right.
Go there.
Right.
Right.
So it's like, why I love my blank heritage, whatever it is, fill in the blank.
So yeah, if a guy is like, it's allegiance to Israel.
Is that what really upsets me?
That's where I draw the line.
Then I agree with Tim Poole in saying that is, I think, narrow minded and myoptic.
For me, it's allegiance to any other country.
If you're talking about your love for China, then go back to China.
If you're talking about your love for South Korea and your heritage, then go back to South Korea.
You either love it or you don't.
It's kind of.
Did you watch?
I don't want to get derailed from the topic at hand, so I'll try to make it brief.
But did you watch the debate between Samuel Say and Corey Mahler?
No, not yet.
So I watched it.
I was fascinated and intrigued.
Me, my wife, we sat down and watched it together.
And she was like, These are the conversations that are happening on Twitter on a daily basis.
She was like, I'm so glad I have my life and not yours.
I'm so glad.
She's like, I'm going, you know, we're going to the pool, me and my five children having a lovely day, having a picnic, you know, and meanwhile, you're.
Like getting in these skirmishes and blah, blah.
So, anyways, we watched it together, and there were things on both sides that I, you know, disagreements that I would hold on both sides.
I will say this I think Samuel Say, I thought, I honestly thought that he would, I thought that it would not fare well for Samuel Say.
But I will say I was pleasantly surprised and pleasantly.
Like, I mean that genuinely.
Like, I was happy for him.
I think he made some decent arguments.
I think he made some bad arguments, but I think he made some decent arguments also.
And what I was going to say is he clearly did substantially better than Chris Roseboro.
Substantial.
I mean, like so much better.
Chris Roseboro, there's not one positive thing I could say about that interaction.
I mean, he just, I like Corey Mahler should be sending Chris Roseboro royalties.
Like he, like they should, Stone Choir should be paying Chris Roseboro.
Cause I don't know if anybody has made Stone Choir look better than Chris Roseboro.
So, anyways, with Samuel Say, there were a few good points he made.
But one great point that Corey made is he said, your actions are inconsistent with your words.
And he said that to Samuel.
When Samuel Say said, I love my Ghana heritage.
I'm from Ghana.
I love it.
And I will always love it.
And Corey said, But you left Ghana.
You married a Christian woman, praise God for that, but who is not Ghana.
And you have deprived your children, both by where you live now in America and by who you married.
Of that heritage that you claim to love.
So, and so Corey, like what he was saying there was, wasn't even so much, well, you can't be here.
Now, Corey's kind of said that elsewhere, you know.
And so I, you know, but in this debate, at least in the context of this debate, he wasn't necessarily saying, there's only one option go back to Ghana, get out of America, and divorce your wife and end your marriage.
Like he didn't say any of those things.
What he was saying though was not one option, but two.
He was saying, just there's actually two options here, but you need to pick one of them.
You can't have both.
You need to pick a lane.
And basically, what Corey was saying, the way I interpreted it now, again, other things, other things are other things, but in the context of this debate, he was basically saying, just be honest, brother.
Right?
Like, just say, Ghana sucks.
We all know it sucks.
Like, I spoke at a conference with Samuel Say, and just for the record, I like Samuel.
I don't agree with him on a lot of the current cultural things that are going on.
And we found ourselves like the Fox and the Hound on different sides of the equation.
You know, the Fox and the Hound movie where they're friends when they're little and then they grow up and they realize, oh no, like we're not on the same team.
And so, which is unfortunate because I really like Samuel Say.
I think he's a brother in Christ.
I have no questions about that.
I actually think he did surprisingly well in that debate with Corey Mahler.
I don't think it was clear that he won the debate, but I'm just saying.
I felt like there was some merit on both sides.
Whereas Chris Roseborough, there was no merit on his side whatsoever.
So, but I think Corey on that issue is right.
Because I want to push back on that when you're done.
What I was going to say is like, so even speaking at a conference with Samuel, say, I remember sitting there in one of the pews and him talking, sharing the story of, I think it was when he turned either, it was a birthday.
I know that it was a birthday with his mom in Ghana.
And I think he was turning eight, but, but, you know, a young, relatively young age.
And his mother asked what he wanted for his birthday.
And he said, an egg.
I just, more than anything, I just want an egg.
He wanted to eat an egg.
And, you know, and that's kind of sad.
Yeah.
You know, and you feel for someone like that.
And, and, and my point is just to say, I think it's perfectly appropriate to say, I love these people, but their country sucks.
Yeah.
And they've achieved very little.
Very little.
I think all of that is so.
Here's my pushback.
And I was eager and joy.
This is my main point.
I was overjoyed to leave.
I think all of that can be the case.
Overjoyed to leave it.
So just be honest and say, yeah, I actually married an American white woman, moved to a much objectively better country, and left that behind for good reason.
I think all that can be the case, and you can still love the place that you came from.
You know what I'm saying?
Like, yeah, with like nostalgia, maybe?
Sure.
Like you grow up in an apartment complex, and later in life, you're a multimillionaire, you have a mansion and a pool.
I left.
But you drive by that apartment complex, and you see it, and there's farming.
There's the tree that you climbed in front.
Sure.
And yes.
I left Washington.
Because it's terrible.
But there are things that I still love about Washington the mountains, the hunting, the fishing, all of those things.
Yes.
Now, maybe Samuel Say was unwilling or unable to say, yeah, Ghana is a terrible place, right?
But I actually think we would do someone in the future.
I think you might say that if it's defined in what ways.
With our natural affections, I actually think we're talking out of both sides of our mouth here a little bit to say you have to come to the better place and you have to reject all natural affection that you had growing up.
Well, just to be fair, I would never say you have to come to the better place.
Fact, I would say if you're going to come, please don't stop.
If you're going to come to the new place, right?
You're going to get you, you have like, even in the Old Testament, Solomon is exhorting one of his wives to forget her father and her land of custom because it is natural for us to remember where we came from.
Um, so I heard that clip go around a lot and people talking about it.
I don't necessarily know that Corin Mahler's reply was the win that people think it was because I actually think it would be.
Insulting to have no love of the place that you came from, even while being able to acknowledge it's a terrible place right now, right?
Natural Affections vs Better Places00:04:05
Like it's got nothing going for it, right?
But it's you know, it's the place I came from.
I love it.
Yeah, I think you can still hear your point, and I think it's a perfectly valid point to be able to say, This is where I grew up.
If you've got an abusive dad, this is where I grew up, and you might still say, There's part of my dad that I love, of course.
You know, it's your dad, but he was abusive, it's your dad, and same with a country, it's your fatherland.
That's what patriotism, yeah, right?
Patriarchy, patriotism.
That's where it's love of the fatherland.
It's like, this is my fatherland.
And in the same way that I love my biological father, I also love my fatherland.
I think that's absolutely true, which is just one more reason why immigration should be exceedingly rare.
Because I agree with you, Michael.
What you're saying is that these are profound affections that God Himself has rooted in the hearts of men, and they do not dissipate easily.
They don't.
I mean, there are dystopian apocalyptic movies where all these children at a young age are snatched away from their parents by the bad guy, the enemy, and then they spend the next 10 years trying to indoctrinate the children to hate their own parents, to go back.
I say dystopian movies, or you could just say the public school system in America, either way.
But that's a common theme.
But the point is, it's not easy.
It takes 10 years of every.
Ounce of propaganda you can muster, you know, and to because it's not easy to turn a child against his father, right, or against his mother, and likewise, because these are natural things that are part of the world that God made, this isn't a result of the curse, this is a result of just creation, the way that God designed the world and the way He designed people.
It is a difficult thing to turn a child against its parents, and likewise, it's a difficult thing to turn a man against his country, right?
It should be difficult because there are affections that are rooted in the heart, but but again.
That would just be one more reason.
So, going back to the Tim Pool clip, yeah, like an allegiance to any other nation, not just Israel, but any other nation outside of America, to me, means that you shouldn't be in America.
And all we've established now in the last 10 minutes of talking further is that at a natural level, most people are going to have an allegiance that's very, very, very hard to get rid of in their hearts for the country that they were born in, the country that they were raised in.
And because of that, to me, that's just all the more reason.
That you shouldn't be importing millions of people to another country and taking them out of the country where they were.
Like, what do you think is going to happen?
I've said it before, I'll say it again, but I always think of the scene in Braveheart where the English are like, it's the beginning of the war.
And so they protect their own people, send them out later on.
So first they send out the peasants, and they're going to go and do single hand combat with a.
With swords and spears and things like that, and then they'll send in the archers, even when the peasants are still alive, and shoot them, you know, to kill some of the enemy because they don't care about them, right?
They're just pawns.
Well, there's a scene where they're sending out the peasants, but they're not English native English stock, they're they're yeah, they're Irish people who have kind of like they have they're mercenaries, yeah, mercenaries.
They came, you know, England kind of conquered them and they came in, you know, and um, and so they're sending them out against uh other Irish against the Scots or the Scots, you're right, but the Irish and Scots are cousins, you know.
And so they send them out, and so they're running like, ah, you know, running to the battle like they're going to, you know, bludgeon each other and, you know, start slashing swords.
And as soon as they, you know, get close enough, you know, physically to touch, they drop their weapons and start giving each other hugs and handshakes.
It's great to see you because natural affections are hard, hard to snuff out.
Americans as Global Pawns00:14:47
And that's what we have right now in our country.
So, like, and so they end up turning on the English, you know, and actually helping out the Scots.
And that's what we have in our country right now.
We're pretending as though we're shocked.
It's like, yeah, well, it turns out, come to find out, people are not widgets.
They're not replaceable.
You can't just exchange one with another and plug and play and tomato, tomato, it's all the same.
No, like people are not widgets.
People have allegiances, they have affections, they have loyalties.
And you cannot import millions and millions of foreigners.
And think that just because they're now in America, or even because they were born in America, even the anchor babies and second generation, and think that, oh, yeah, this person who comes from a lineage that lived for a thousand years in another place with its own wars, its own culture, its own heritage, its own land, and this person is going to come here and magically shift on a dime, or their baby is going to be born here and never know.
Like, I've heard story after story of people who were born in America.
I've heard several Asians, like Japanese, you know, they were born in America.
They've never even been to Japan.
They go for the first time as a young adult to visit Japan and they're like, This is my home.
I belong here.
I've never even seen it.
But like, there's something deep in their soul.
They're like, These are my people.
This is my land.
And they're like walking around the streets of Japan almost weeping because they realized that they were uprooted and taken.
I remember the Vodi Bakum story.
A lot of people may not know this, but.
I remember it was profound where Vodi, when he first went to Zambia, his first trip to visit Conor and Bewe, and I don't think it's when he moved there, but when he was kind of scoping earlier.
Yeah.
And so he goes to Zambia his first trip, and there's an old Zambian black man at the church where Vodi is going to visit.
I think he's going to preach.
And Vodi's introducing himself, and a lot of the people speak broken English.
They speak somewhat proficient English.
And this man is speaking a little bit of English to him.
And he says to Vodi, Is this your first time in Africa?
And he says, Yes.
And the old man says, Welcome home, son.
Welcome home, son, as an older man, a father.
Welcome home.
And Vodi told this story, and he said that when that older man said, Welcome home, son, that Vodi started crying.
Like something powerful rung true in him that this was his home and he was ripped from it, sold by his own people to a foreign people, taken across oceans.
And Vodi isn't even just second generation, born in America.
Vodi is like several subsequent generations in America.
And so I'm not sitting here.
My point is not to say, and therefore Vodi's not American.
I believe he is not just an American citizen, but like a true American.
I really do.
And yet, even in Vodi's case, he's like, yeah, but there was a pool.
There's a pool.
I'm from, like, my people, Vodi's ancestry is, you know, a few hundred years in America, but a few thousand years in Africa.
And that still hasn't quite died in his heart.
Right.
That's how powerful these things are that we're talking about.
So, long story short, what does it mean?
It means that I don't care what country it's from, and I don't even care how many generations deep you go.
If you have a sizable population of your country that is imported from somewhere else, then your country will be divided.
Right.
It will be divided.
I think that's the lesson.
To me, that's the only takeaway is not that there can never be any immigration around the world ever.
That's not my position.
But I would say that immigration always, always should be few and far between.
It should be the exception.
Historically, it's been usually because of war or like necessity, right?
Like war, famine, disaster.
Like South Africa.
Yes.
Like this is like the first time ever that white people who are genuinely persecuted in South Africa are immigrants.
Because usually it's never white people necessarily that are immigrating, certainly not as refugees.
And now they are from South Africa.
But it should be, the point is, it should be something like that.
Like we.
And even in that case, America for the foreseeable future, as you and I have said several times, has to be closed because we've taken too many.
Even when you look at the children of Israel and Joseph, like they went back to their land that God had promised them, and Joseph gave instructions regarding his bones.
You know, those belong in my people's land.
And when you go back, take those bones with you.
And they did.
Even when I'm dead.
Yep.
Like I don't want to be buried here.
This is not my home.
Yeah.
Yeah, these are powerful things that we've just.
It's the same as like Jurassic Park, you know, like, you know, like life finds a way and like you're messing with things that you think you can control and that you can just govern.
And they're way too powerful for you.
You're overplaying your hand, underestimating the substance of what you're dealing with.
You can't just mess with, you know, dinosaur DNA, you know, and think that you can control it.
Same thing when you talk about natural affections.
Yeah.
Like the sword cuts.
We're playing a game that we think we can just.
It doesn't work that way.
You're talking about.
Thousands of years of people being rooted in certain places with certain people and thinking that you could turn on a dime.
That's true.
No.
The sword does cut both ways, though, because even by the scale that you're using, the wasps have been here not that much longer.
Correct.
Correct.
But they came over as a people with their people.
I understand that.
And I would say that's the difference.
And they settled.
I'm sure they missed England.
I'm sure they did.
Yeah, of course.
For a long time.
For a long time.
My point is we're talking about the realities that God has built into us on the one hand, the natural order of things.
And we're talking about the political realities of sometimes there's a war and people have to flee and then they live in a new place.
Sometimes there's religious persecution and they come across the ocean and they inhabit a new land.
And what we need to be careful of doing.
We need to be careful of when we say the natural is so much stronger than the political that it must override, right?
And some cases you do that.
You say, We're sending people, we want to get, we want to send people out of our country because they're not from here, they're from somewhere else.
There, we're taking the natural argument and we're saying that supersedes some of the political machinations going on in the world.
And we're going to play this one on top of the political globalist, you know, whatever.
We're going to use the natural as a corrective, right?
We just have to have wisdom and discernment to know how those two things interplay.
And there's not always easy answers.
I'm not arguing against globalism here.
I'm just saying there are also political realities because if you take this far enough, then you get into the well, all blacks have to go back to Africa because that's their religion.
I know.
Yeah.
That's not the point that I'm making.
I know it's not the point that you're making.
But what I am saying is that.
But they're powerful and they're strong.
It's powerful and it's strong.
Yes.
And there are.
A lot of blacks that do need to go back, they're called Haitians.
I agree.
But yeah, you can't, people are not widgets.
You can't just switch things and turn them around on a dime.
And so, all this back to the Tim Pool clip, I just think that I agree with what he's saying.
I feel like Tim kind of has been a little Zionist ish, and I have not necessarily appreciated that.
But if we're just talking about that one clip in isolation without other things that Tim Pool has said, I agree 100%.
If I see somebody, you know, screaming online about allegiance to Israel, or if it's like, I'll put it this way I have just as much, I just as despise, just as much despise Ilhan Omar as I do, you know, some Israeli shit.
Yes, yes.
So, and I think that's probably a good litmus test.
If you find yourself like Ilhan Omar doesn't, you know, doesn't bother you, like setting up a Somalian organization, Enclave right in America, and very clearly, like saying, I'm going to break the law.
Yep, I'm going to break the law in America to, um, to you know, to establish like some Somalian state.
It's like Chaz when they set that up, you know, in Washington, yeah, like uh, doing that for Somalia.
Like, if if that doesn't bother you, but um, but you know, the Zionist does bother you, then I would say, yeah, you're probably you probably got Israel brain a little bit, you're probably, but the opposite is true too, my optic.
And the opposite is true, also.
Exactly.
And so, if you find yourself bothered by Ilhan Omar, but you can't ever see the very same concept with Israel, then you also have Israel brain.
You're a Zionist.
The other way.
I think, yeah, I think both of those are true.
I think the solution is just America first across the board.
I don't think you can be a Zionist and be America first.
Right.
No, you can't.
I don't think so.
So that's, for me, that's, I have pushed hard against Israel for two reasons.
One, on the basis of religion, Judaism, I believe, is uniquely pernicious as a false religion.
And I think Judaism has seeped in, elements of Judaism have seeped into evangelicals.
Which of which I'm one in a way that tenants of Islam have not.
Right.
So, on that basis, on a theological basis, as a Christian pastor, I am very, very adamant against Israeli influence and Judeo Christian influence.
So, that's one reason.
And then, secondly, at a political level, I just don't see America.
Bending over backwards to make concessions with other foreign countries other than Israel and Ukraine to that degree.
I mean, I think we do it with a lot of different people, but to that degree.
And so, religiously and politically, that's why I've gone so hard against Israel.
But that said, yeah, if Trump cut ties with Israel, And we were done with that.
And all of a sudden, there were more Muslims showing up at our doorstep.
And he made some kind of alliance with all these Muslim nations.
And then, pastors, you know, evangelical pastors.
In France, where they're going to be invaded by Islam.
If in 100 years they are.
Yes.
Or, you know, you're right.
Absorbing Islamic doctrine into the church.
And then, exactly.
And then, like, evangelical pastors, if they started talking about Islamic Christian values.
That's right.
You know what I mean?
Then, like, then you would hear me.
So, I hate Islam.
Yeah, I do.
But sometimes when you're picking your enemy, right, it's hard to fight like a hundred battles all at the same time.
You always have to practice triage and prioritize.
And so, for me, when I'm thinking of battles, usually, just so the listener knows, if you're wondering, like, why does Joel talk about the things he talks about?
It's usually just doing triage.
And what I'm triaging is not just what's an enemy or who's an enemy, but what are the most threatening.
I'm doing it by like the same way a doctor, if you go into the emergency room, you're in a car wreck, you know, and you might have a scratched knee, but then you also have a piece of the steering wheel jabbed into, you know, one of your lungs.
Like they're not going to start, you know, dressing your knee with neosporin and a boo boo band aid.
Like they're going to deal with a steering wheel that's lodged into one of your lungs, right?
You pick the thing that's killing you the fastest, that's posing the biggest threat.
And so when I look at America today, Islam is terrible.
It has been a long standing enemy of the church for 13 centuries.
And if this was, you know, the year 1300, then you would, you know, and they had, if they had podcasts back then, you know, like you would hear me podcasting about Islam every single day, you know.
Or if I was in England, I would probably be, it'd probably be somewhat equal talking about Islam.
But I'm in America.
And we just have to admit, guys, America has been uniquely.
Beholden to Israel.
And in the church, the evangelical church, we have uniquely carved it.
We don't do this for Hinduism.
We don't do it for Islam.
We don't do it for Buddhism.
We don't do it for any other world religion.
And yet we've carved out, we'll say, yeah, I mean, technically it's not Christian, but this weird adjacent category for one false religion, namely Judaism, that we don't do for any other worldview.
And so, as an American and as an evangelical Christian pastor, and evangelicalism has been steeped in Zionism for 80 years, that's my context.
So, in my context, as an American in 2025 and an evangelical pastor, yeah, I am going to talk about.
Um, Israel sucks, Judaism sucks, and uh, and we need to it's poison in our body, and we need to be gagging ourselves and trying to throw up the poison that we've swallowed for 80 years, um, or the country's gonna die, the church is gonna die, we're in trouble, yeah.
Okay, we're gonna hit our next commercial break when we come back.
We're gonna wrap up with two different clips, Joel, that are gonna put your statement just now to the test.
Evangelical Pastors on Poisoned Nations00:02:28
Okay, so I'm excited to uh.
Um, to see your answer to the here, I'm gonna tease it so we get viewers that stick around, okay.
Uh, when we come back, I'll ask Joel the one question you're all no, not really.
All right, here's the next commercial break.
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Free Coffee for Listeners Today00:15:32
All right.
Welcome back.
Cosmic, that's an interesting comment.
If you have more information on that or, you know, if you think that would be an interesting endeavor, maybe email the show or maybe, you know, do it and let us know if you need help doing it.
So, yep.
I know that channel.
I occasionally watch Nerd Roddick's takes on, you know, pop culture.
So, all right.
So, we are going to jump over to a different podcast.
We're going to wrap up.
We're not going to be too, too long.
But this was recently on Tucker Carlson's show.
He had Brett Weinstein on, who obviously is a Jew.
Did you listen to that one?
Yep.
Yeah.
I mean, the whole thing was him arguing against the existence of God.
If you only lasted that long, you missed the best part because the second half was much more interesting.
I listened to the whole thing.
Okay.
I thought the second half was better.
Yeah.
So they're going to get into it.
There was a lot of interesting stuff in there about Israel, about Jewish reaction to.
Perceived threats and what that does to the larger discussion about Israel.
Brett, at one point, I want to be fair to his argument.
He said, Look, I'm Jewish, but I'm American.
I'm not Israeli.
I'm not really for Israel insofar as I hope that they continue to exist as a country, but I'm American.
So he throws that out there.
But he said something that I thought was really, really fascinating, specifically regarding an issue that a lot of us care greatly about.
And that was the medical freedom movement that came out of COVID.
Where there was a whole band of doctors and researchers and medical professionals who lost their licenses.
They put their careers on the line.
They were censured and really banded together to form and actually to do the research of how to treat people who had been vaccine injured from the COVID vaccine.
Like we're really doing a lot of the stuff that the National Health Institute should have been doing.
They put a lot on the line.
And so he makes some interesting comments about how the Israel question, the question about how we ought to view Israel, is.
Working itself through that movement.
Okay, so we're going to listen to one clip and then I'm just going to, just for a break, we'll come back.
I'll say something in between and then we'll listen to the second clip.
And then, Jewel, I'm interested to get your take on this.
So, this is clip number seven and then we'll pretty quickly after that go into clip number eight.
I agree completely.
Killing people for what their ancestors did, I mean, that couldn't be more anti Christian, couldn't be more unreasonable.
Everything about it I despise.
I'm just fascinated by the dominance of this conversation.
In American politics, like what I mean, part of it's real.
Like, we're moving toward war with Iran.
That's why the only reason I'm involved in it is because of that.
It's the only reason.
And so you kind of have to respond to it, right?
Unless you want your country to go to war yet again.
But it's more than that.
It's like, who it does feel like this is being pushed on us, like the race stuff was pushed on us.
Well, okay, let's.
Am I being paranoid?
No, I, like I said, I think there's some.
Element of organized propaganda that pushes us in a direction.
Okay, so they're talking about the question and the conversation about Israel, and they're speculating about how much of it is organic.
And Tucker even floats the theory, just a theory, that did Pfizer inject some of this into the conversation to destroy the medical freedom movement, of which Brett Weinstein was on the front end of it.
I see.
Okay, so let's go to the next clip now, which is where.
They get into how this has affected the medical freedom movement that we thought was surging out of COVID and now has really just dissipated.
I think, in part, the reason that this issue seems to derange every conversation, every coalition, is that Jews are infused through all of the activities of civilization.
And you've got a population that.
I'm hesitant to use a term like, you know, intergenerational trauma, but you've got a population that hands down the stories of pogroms and persecution and the Holocaust because it's vital information.
You have to know that that can happen and it can happen anywhere at any time.
And so, being of that mindset, being raised to know that things can be very good and people can, you know, there can be no hint of anti Semitism as there wasn't in.
My life until quite late, things can be that way, and then something can change, and what you thought were the realities of who your friends are and what they're capable of would radically shift.
So, you've got that population involved in governance, business, all of the essential functions of civilization, and then the noises of an anti Semitic wave start to rise.
That population Recoils into this defensive posture, or no, is it happening again?
Which then causes an attempt to drive out all nuances.
Is not the time to be asking questions, that sort of thing, which then causes resentment in terms of all of the things you're not allowed to just even ask, right?
As an American, I'm not allowed to ask questions about our support for a foreign government's war.
You know, I mean, of course I'm allowed to talk about that, but yet somehow it feels very dangerous to even raise the question.
So that pattern results, you know, how big a room can you assemble before you have both sides in that room unable to allow any nuance, right?
It's not a very big room.
So, what happened to the medical freedom movement was just simply the events of October 7th caused people who didn't even necessarily know each other's positions on, you know, events in the Middle East suddenly to be talking about them.
And to find each other ununderstandable.
And but how did that issue even?
I mean, I don't know.
I don't even know all my kids' positions on the Middle East, and they're my children, and I talk to them every day.
It's like, it just doesn't occur to me to bring that up out of context.
Do you know what I mean?
Where are you on BB?
It's like, I don't care.
Like, how did that wind up in a discussion of what to do about the mRNA vaccine?
I just think that's it seems completely unrelated.
It's it's madness.
Seems that way.
It seems to me that the right.
The thing to do is to recognize we have a whole lot of common ground, and then there's an issue on which we apparently don't.
And frankly, what a missed opportunity that a bunch of people who'd been through hell together fighting over, you know, their right to speak the truth about all things COVID that group of people seems like they would have the tools to navigate other difficulties.
Yes.
But that's not what happened.
And that missed opportunity is a tragedy for humanity.
It means that we're not where we should be with respect to the devastation of. COVID, and we're also, you know, nowhere, nowhere good with respect to our ability to discuss the events in the Middle East.
All right.
So, in particular, that part at the end.
So, the idea that the discussion about Israel got so heated in this medical community that they were no longer able to collaborate together on questions of what do we do about, and to some degree, there's been speculation about this with RFK, right?
Like he came in saying he was going to be this great champion of medical freedom.
And that's kind of been disappointing at this point.
I know we're only four months in, three months into the administration.
Because, in part, I think what you're going to say is the Israel situation kind of derailed RFK also.
Yes.
And so, even in a seemingly unrelated field, which is vaccines and medicine and health, Maha, make America healthy again.
Even that seems to have people at the point where they cannot work together or simply cannot work because of either disagreement about Israel or Israel's influence on it.
And Brett Weinstein seems to be making the claim that at least part of it is just people being so diametrically opposed to each other on that issue that they can't then go back to work at the table and work on medical freedom.
Yeah.
Yes.
It's different than other issues.
It really is.
So that doesn't surprise me that it's like a make or break.
Level issue where because there's lots of other things where people can, you know, reach across the aisle and, you know, and link arms and be co belligerents on X and Y and Z, even though they disagree on A or B or C.
But Israel is not one of those things.
It's not.
And I think part of it, I thought the most insightful part of that clip that was, I was not really helpful for me because I've been, you know, I think.
Acutely aware of this for some time now, but just another confirmation for me was when Weinstein said, He said, you know, people have been on edge.
He said, You know, like I never really experienced anti Semitism, you know, until recently as of late.
And he said, But, you know, but every Jewish kid, this is essentially what he was conveying every Jewish kid, you know, is raised with, you know, parents or grandparents having the talk.
Exactly, having the talk that you're very, very special.
And, you know, and there's a very, you know, lots of people have arguments and lots of people end up, you know, this nation hates that nation and this family doesn't like that family.
And like there's, you know, human conflict is a tale as old as time.
It goes all the way back to Genesis 3.
And so everybody has problems, everybody has conflict.
But you, little Jew, little Jewish boy, little Jewish girl, you are very special.
And the conflicts that you have are also very special conflicts.
And everybody has people that hate them.
I have a million people that hate me.
I get slandered all the time.
I mean, there's a well known Reformed minister who just stepped down from eldership today for slandering people and personally emailed me because I'm one of the people that he's slandered for two years and dragging out things.
And so I know what it is to be hated, but nobody ever told me as a little boy that when people hate me, it's a special magical hatred.
Because no one ever told me growing up that I'm a special, magical person.
I never grew up thinking, you know, there's different peoples and different races and different nationalities, but there's one magical nationality, one magical race of people, and you belong to that.
And everybody has conflicts and everybody at times is persecuted.
But when you're persecuted and when you experience conflict, it's a magical, special conflict and hatred.
And so he's, you know, he's talking about, you know, every little Jewish boy and Jewish girl has the talk.
And what is the talk?
The talk is that terrible, terrible things were done to you.
And at any moment, it could happen again.
Like, I just like, just for a moment, and I'll get to your overarching question.
But I just wonder does every young German boy and German girl have that talk?
Like, with the millions of Germans that were raped, millions of Germans that were murdered on the back end of World War II, finding Germans in other countries all over the world.
And just because they spoke German, they were rounded up in firing squads, would put mobs of Germans and mow them down, women, children, all of them.
I mean, millions.
I just wonder does every little German in Germany do little German boys and little German girls?
No, sadly, they kind of do.
They get the talk, don't be assertive, don't be, you know.
So it's a story they do get a kind of talk.
That's right.
But they get it in the opposite direction.
Yes, you're right.
The German people have been incredibly disenfranchised.
And they have just as much persecution in their background, in their heritage, as Israel.
If I don't want to get into it because it'll get derailed.
There's an argument to be made of more and less.
Do you mean all the way over time or specifically around like the 1900s?
I mean around the same time.
Yeah.
So I think his point is the pogroms go back into like the 1300s, the 1200s, the, you know, they go back pretty much from the beginning.
Yeah.
109 countries.
Yeah.
That they've been persecuted in.
Yeah.
I always wonder why.
109 countries.
It's a lot of places to get kicked out of.
Wes made an insightful comment.
I don't know if you heard it.
It was months ago.
He said, sometimes they got kicked out because the country owed them money and didn't want to pay.
And they were convenient.
I believe that.
Yeah.
I believe that.
I'm going to say there were probably some of those that were maybe.
I'm sure some were unjust.
That's a lot.
That's the point.
109 is the reason why that number, I think, matters is not because it's 109 with no discrepancies and that there wasn't any injustice that has ever been done.
The point, I think, when people say 109, that's kind of a lot, like I just did, is to say that injustices do take place.
But it's somewhat rare for 109 injustices to take place and not one of them be valid.
I think that's the point.
But, anyways, for him, so that clip with him and Tucker, Brett and Tucker, to say, every Jew has had the talk.
I think that right there, that's part of the problem.
So the pump has already been primed to where now, because just like we can have conversations.
When people talk about, well, here are some of the historic grievances against Anglos, you know, or against Germans or against, you know, the French, you know, like, I don't know any, I've never been in that conversation.
I'm 38 years old.
Never once in my life have I had a conversation with someone of French descent or English descent or German descent and been talking to them and talked about some kind of event that happened that was unjust, you know, that blah, blah, blah.
And not just hundreds of you, but, you know, in the last century, And them just flip a table and get up and steaming angry and I'm going to defrock you and I'm going to make sure that you.
Never Fully Embrace the Holocaust00:09:16
I don't know anyone like that except for Jews.
That's the only thing I don't know anything like.
It is a modern phenomenon.
I don't know.
I think the Black community has some of that a little bit.
And what it is is kind of an in.
An inculcated victim mentality that, like, there are many things that preclude integration and working together and joining, but that's one of them.
And once that's built into your perspective as a people, like, it is, you're never really going to fully embrace it.
This was the problem with CRT and the church.
We were saying you have to be spiritual brothers with a black man as a white man, but also you have to understand that he can never ever trust you.
Yeah, which is crazy.
So, when that's built in, it will never work, ever.
It's never going to work.
Yeah, you're right.
No, that's fair to say.
Yeah, the black community has, I mean, that's kind of what 2020 and 2021 were all about.
Summer of George Floyd and mostly peaceful riots.
So, that's fair.
So, all that being said, I think that, like, so what Brett is saying, that it's this Jewish question and the controversy and the different, you know, Debating sides over Israel and that it's derailed and hindered important work where guys have been co belligerents on other issues like COVID and all of a sudden can't even work together.
It doesn't surprise me.
That doesn't surprise me.
And I think a big part of it is because you're talking about the most propaganda that there's ever.
Ever been on both sides, like all across the board, everywhere, to where it's like you, you like there's plenty of times where things could get heated.
Sure, humans are sinners and we have sinful tendencies, but where you could critique this person or this family or this country or this set of propositions or ideology or whatever.
But with Israel, it very quickly devolves to.
You want to kill me.
Right.
Or this is just going to be another Holocaust.
Yep.
Or it's like, no, I just don't want Bibby to do his laundry at the White House.
Yes.
I want to keep American tax dollars for the taxpayer.
Yep.
I don't want to fight your wars for you.
I don't want our country to enter into World War III.
And I'd like to get, you know, Schofield Bibles off the shelf.
Yep.
Like that's.
It's pretty much it.
If Israel continues to exist as a nation, great.
I don't want to go to war with Israel.
I don't want to hurt them.
I don't want to harm them.
But I want them to leave us alone.
I want to sever the ties.
I don't want Israeli influence in my nation, in my government.
I don't want Judeo influence in our churches and our theology.
And I will go one step further because I am a Christian nationalist and I've said it publicly before.
I also don't want Jews, and I mean by that religiously practicing Jews in our country who are citizens, they can maintain citizenship, but I do not want them to hold public office.
In the same way that I also don't want Muslims, religiously practicing Muslims, to hold office in America, civil office.
So that's about it.
I don't want to hurt anybody, I don't want some final solution or anything like that, but it immediately goes there.
Immediately goes there.
It does.
And I don't think, I mean, yeah, there's some unhinged guys out there in the interwebs.
And I've seen them.
I'm not going to pretend they don't exist.
But for the most part, I mean, it's pretty few and far between.
For the most part, as I'm looking at this dangerous rise of anti Semitism, I really think for the most part, it's 90% of it has simply just been people criticizing Israel.
Right.
And mere criticisms of Israel immediately being labeled as somehow.
Anti Semitic and hateful and genocidal, and it's like, what in the world?
So, I just think to that clip with Brett Weinstein.
To be fair to Brett, I don't think he's in favor of how Israel is handling the Hamas war.
Like, I think he would be because he said that he just, people when they talk to him, they assume that he's on Israel's side.
And he didn't come one way or another, but he moved immediately to there's a lot of people in Israel who are really upset with the official Israeli government.
They think that's what's going on in Palestine is an atrocity.
And he seemed to lay his sympathies there.
What Pained him at one point in the interview was that he can't even talk to people because as soon as the conversation comes up, all they want to know is what is your position, and immediately I can work with you or I can't.
Right.
Yep.
Yeah.
I don't know.
I think it's not going away.
Like you and I have talked about this, Michael, for a while, and it's not going away.
I think it is like the issue of our time.
I'd like it to, you know, I'd like it to kind of wrap up.
You know eventually, but what I would like it to be.
I don't think it's going to go away either.
I would like it to, and I I hear you, i'm not, i'm.
I'm not saying it's, we're there, but I would like it to be an issue that can be one that does not mean immediately cutting ties.
I would like to be able to be co-belligerents yeah, or people in the medical industry to be able to work together and maintain different views on this issue.
I'd rather our issue win right and win quickly and win decisively Or, our point, our perspective win decisively.
But in the meantime, like, I don't know, maybe it is that fundamental of an issue.
And Joel, I think you think it is.
It's a tier one issue, triage wise.
But to me, the fact that we can't now establish medical policy because of this issue, like, there's a part of me that gets angry too.
I told you in the break, I was like, even that, if that's the case, then even that is Zionism or favor with Israel.
Getting to determine even who I get to be mad at, right?
Like, it's like you don't get to tell me which people in my country I'm gonna draw a line with and disagree with, right?
But this issue is so deep that it even descends or penetrates to that level where we don't even get to logically make our own ideological enemies in this country.
We have to be told by an outside agent who our ideological enemies have to be.
Within our own country.
And even that makes me mad.
Yeah.
Yeah, I get that.
I get it.
I don't know.
I think I could be wrong, but I think a lot of it is just on this issue.
Part of the reason why there's so much distrust is because it just, you're talking about, back to what we were saying earlier, natural affections and where someone's allegiance actually lies.
Who did, like, Because on this issue, it's like, I mean, like, how many Americans, you know, love Israel more than America?
Right.
Like, if we were to pick any country in the world that Americans would love above their own country, it would have to, the number one would have to be Israel.
Oh, yeah, hands down.
By a landslide.
So you're talking about.
Maybe Mexico.
We have a lot of Mexican immigrants.
Yeah.
But so my point is that, like, you're talking about loyalties.
You're talking about.
It just gets quickly right to the heart of trust.
Right.
Like, Whose side are you on?
Can I trust you?
And then, for you know, the pro Israel side, it's like, um, well, you know, like, I mean, they've watched Schindler's List, you know, 4,000 times, you know, and there were six million times, you know, and and so they're like, well, I can't trust you because you killed my grandma and you're gonna kill me too.
And and so, like, on one side, it's it, like, I mean, even Brett, who I'll give give you credit, I like, uh, give him credit, and I appreciate you sharing this clip, Michael, because it's, um, I think he's one of the better guys to use.
Victim Mentality and Anti-Semitism00:08:26
Right.
Like he's pretty even keel, down to earth, level headed, not hyperbolic, not overly emotional.
But even for him, like that language, it's pretty intense language of, you know, every Jewish child gets the talk that at any moment things could look good, but anti Semitism can rise in an instant and the Holocaust could happen again any day.
Right.
Tomorrow could be the day.
Right.
You know, maybe it's a year from now, maybe it's a decade.
But the Holocaust for sure happened.
The math for sure checks out the ovens, you know, it all worked.
It is exactly six million, probably more, but definitely no less.
And it definitely happened exactly like you've been told.
And it could happen again tomorrow, probably next week.
I mean, the Jew thinks of the future impending Holocaust the way the dispensationalist thinks about a rapture.
Like, honestly.
You know what, Joel?
That's actually a good point because, like, the Jewish religion, Talmudic Judaism, teaches that it's the suffering of the Jew that purifies the world, right?
Like Isaiah 53.
And so, in a sense, actually, I think you're very right about that observation.
It is even a theological position, even, you know, that works itself into even all the atheistic Jews and things like that.
So, everybody can make themselves a victim.
Nobody has a monopoly on that.
Everybody can do that.
But I do think that within Israel, I do think that victim mentality runs deep, really, really deep.
Like you said, well, the black community, they can do it too.
And yeah, that's true.
But even that for the black community, I think is somewhat novel, somewhat new.
I don't think they necessarily have generations.
Of that, like 2020 and 2021 was victimhood for black people kind of at a fever pitch.
You saw some of that in the 60s with the civil rights, Rosa Parks, who was a plant.
She was a Marxist plant.
Martin Luther King was a Marxist plant.
But other than that, like before civil rights and welfare and those things, the average black person was not going around in America viewing themselves as a victim.
They weren't viewing themselves as victims, but I think that they were aware that there could be violence towards them.
Like if one of them was accused of.
Yeah, that's true.
Yeah, that's true.
You know, just be careful.
Don't, you know, don't walk down the street with a white lady.
That's probably accused of, you know, that sort of thing.
That's probably true.
There's a difference, though, between that and the victim mentality.
Right.
Yeah.
So I don't, I don't know.
I just, I just think that if on one side, It's just the stakes are as high as they could possibly be.
On one side, you have the anti Zionist.
That's how I, you know, I would be in that category, who feels like Christian faith itself has been not entirely, but significantly poisoned and hijacked down to our doctrine, our theology, our churches.
Like, so like the Christian faith.
Has been infused with a poison of Judaism and our nation.
The has been infected by foreign interests, right?
With multiple nations, but Israel having the strongest hand on our nation.
And so, at a political level, as a patriot who cares about America first, as a Christian, so on one side, you it's like.
The stakes couldn't be any higher.
You see it as like Israel derailed historic Christianity in many ways and is constantly influencing our country and its politics.
And then on the other side, their position is tomorrow, 6 million Jews 80 years ago and 60 million tomorrow.
It's just a matter of time and anti Semitism, you know, like every group has people that hate them, but ours is special.
We have a special name for it and everything, you know, it's not just racism.
You know, we're more important than that.
We have a special word, anti Semitism, and it can happen at any moment.
And if it does happen, it's a life and death issue and it could literally drop of a hat.
And so I just think, like, if those are the two positions, One is you subverted my faith and my country.
And the other is tomorrow you might kill me.
But a lot of the doctors are not even Christian, right?
A lot of the people in the medical freedom community are not going to be seeing the stakes in that.
Like they might not have the religious tone to it.
They wouldn't have, yeah, no, they wouldn't be probably nearly as concerned as I am about like the Schofield aspect and Darby and dispensationalism.
Yes, you're right.
So, for them, it would just be.
But the point still stands.
You're influencing my country.
Well, okay.
So, to the doctor question, what Brett's talking about in his field, it's probably just one side.
It's probably actually just.
It's probably just the Zionist sides and you're being anti Semitic and you're threatening my way of life and you're making me not feel safe and I can't work with you.
The counter to that is probably not what we are.
It's probably pro Palestinian.
Right.
Yeah.
For me, it's pro American and pro Christ.
Right.
It's Christ is king.
Right.
Like that's, you know, that it's not, it's not Hamas, Hamas, that's my guy, you know, like, no.
But for a lot, that is what, you know, it's, it's, that's for some.
For many, it's not pro Hamas, it's pro Palestine.
That's correct.
Yes.
They just feel like this isn't, I mean, you talk about genocide.
It's like, well, they tried to wipe us all out.
It's like, you're literally wiping people out right now.
You're wiping out an entire area of like 2 million people.
So, anyway, it's just super, super high stakes.
And I don't know what the solution is.
I feel like honestly, the best solution I can come up with with so many of these foreign affairs is everybody go back where you came from and mind your own business.
Yeah.
Like, I don't think we have to destroy Israel.
Right.
I don't.
But it's like, but if we can't get along, like, we might just need a reset.
Like, we might just need, hey, you know what?
Sorry, you know, but tensions are at an all time high.
Trust is at an all time low.
And yeah, so we're breaking ties right now, and we're no longer going to be doing Israel's bidding.
And if you really are pro America, America over Israel, not just, yeah, I want America to do well, you know, but like, no, like America first, above Israel, then great.
But if not, then you need to go home for the foreseeable future.
You need to go home.
We wish you well.
And I honestly don't think there's any other solution.
I mean, there are other more inhumane solutions.
But I don't think we're going to fix it any other way.
Maintaining Distinctions Between Nations00:05:21
And all the pietistic pastors saying, well, preach the gospel even harder.
Nations are God's idea.
All these guys, all these gospel, you know, preach the gospel guys.
I love the gospel.
I preached the gospel for, I wasn't supposed to, but I preached it for an hour yesterday.
And so we ended up with two sermons.
I wasn't even, I was doing the liturgy.
I wasn't even supposed to be preaching.
And so I love the gospel.
But in terms of like global affairs, in terms of global affairs, like all the gospel guys are so excited about Revelation where it says, you know, every tribe, tongue, and nation.
The only way you have diversity in heaven at the end is by maintaining distinctions in the meantime.
We just get rid of, you know, everybody just migrates everywhere and intermarries and, you know, it all, and it just becomes one big, you know, brown soup, you know, everybody like no more black people, no more white people, just everybody's just kind of the same shade of brown and everybody speaks one language and every, you know, like then you don't have every tribe, tongue, and nation.
Right.
Like the whole idea of diversity in heaven is it only happens because diversity is maintained on earth.
And diversity being maintained on earth is not actually, ironically, it's not getting all these different types of people in one nation, but it's actually maintaining the distinctions and keeping all these nations separate.
And that does not necessitate hate or animus.
So when I say the nations should be separate, I don't mean that the nations have to be at war.
Right.
But they do have to be distinct.
Or that they can't have allies and partners.
Right.
But right now, like, yeah, I just think race relations, not doing so hot right now.
Like social trust, not so great.
People's view towards juice, not great.
Yeah, it's just all across the board.
And I think it's because the chickens have come home to roost.
I think we did this.
We did this.
And to just try to say, well, this is because of immature anti Semites or, you know, white ethnic nationalists, you know, their anonymous account.
Like, no, this is way bigger than the Anans on Twitter.
This is way, this is 80 years of intentional eroding of native populations, deracinating.
Disenfranchising, a globalist, one world globalist order, Tower of Babel 2.0, apostasy towards Christ.
This has been a long time coming.
And now I think it's just, this is what you get.
There are consequences to sin.
And the consequences are we have zero social trust.
You can't have your chickens and your fresh laid eggs and put them in the front yard and say, you know, $5.
For a dozen and just trust.
Like, I mean, maybe if you're in a gated community, you know, or very, very, very remote.
Right.
But in most cases, it's like we don't have a high trust society.
We got little white boys getting their skulls bashed in on the playground, you know, and like, and every time it happens, the parents are like, we forgive and, you know, nothing bad really happened.
And it's probably my son's fault, you know, like, I, you can't, this is not sustainable.
And I think that we're in a situation where there are no easy or great or perfect.
There's this is not like we don't live in a movie, right?
One of the dangers about movies is that solutions happen within two hours, right?
You get a problem, you get stuck in a big problem, and then there's a solution.
And by the end of two hours, it's done.
And we get to the point where we expect life to be that way.
And that's not always how life works.
I think maybe my last comment here will be if we had leaders who were talking about this and saying, we're not sure what to do, but we see the problem.
Like this has happened, and we're gonna have at least public discussion about it.
We're gonna admit that this is a problem.
We're gonna admit that we've done it.
In that case, like Trump's the closest one who could do that because he's an outsider.
Right.
He could point some fingers without necessarily them pointing back at him.
Right.
But he, you know, he's not, even he is not doing that.
And so all it does is it raises the temperature of the population because they think not only is no one doing anything, but they don't care.
They're all complicit.
And Even just saying, look, we don't know what the solution is, but we're going to start talking about it would help.
But I don't see that even necessarily happening.
Well, that's why people listen to podcasts like ours.
Right.
Yeah, I really don't.
I don't know.
I mean, you stop immigration.
Like there are ways we've talked about it a ton, but people are.
Heritage Americans Break Up00:15:46
All your Christians are weak.
Weak.
Christianity is weak.
Not historic true Christianity, but modern Christianity.
It's so compromised.
So the Christians, for them, they're like, we need hearts for revival, you know?
And then so many politicians, they're corrupt and bought and paid for.
And then, you know, you've got all these different factions and groups that are all turned against each other.
And it's like, I mean, I think there are solutions, but it takes.
It takes not just hearts for revival, but stomachs.
I think of, you know, we preached through Ezra a while back at our church.
And one of the like profound moments is where Ezra, the priest, he comes, you know, and Nehemiah's kind of already been at work and different, you know, Zerubbabel and like different political leaders have been at work for a while.
But now the priest comes and he dusts off, you know, the law of the Lord, begins to read it to the people and says, you know, like, yeah, we're doing this reconstruction project, right?
Israel was once great, just like America was once great.
And we need to make it great again, make Israel great again, you know, in their case, make America great and like go back to our founding, rebuild the temple and the walls and Jerusalem and do all these things.
But as we do it, we have to be faithful to the Lord.
Otherwise, it'll all lead right back here.
Right.
This is why we were kicked out of the land in the first place.
This is why we lost our great heritage.
And so he begins to read to them the law of the Lord.
And he said, like, it's not enough to just rebuild the temple and the walls and rebuild the city, but we also have to.
We have to purge ourselves of every ounce of unfaithfulness and corruption.
And so then he reads the law of the Lord and he says, All right, and here are some practical things.
Well, one of the things we're going to have to do is you guys are going to have to send away your own wives and children, your pagan wives, your foreign wives.
They had married foreigners who worshiped foreign gods, and they had to send away their wives and children, entire families.
Are severed and broken apart.
And what I'm saying is, I'm saying that if you want to rebuild the ruins, it comes at a cost.
It's not just, oh, hearts for revival.
No, like when you've been off the rails for 80 years, just like Israel had been in captivity for 70 years in Babylon, like when you've been off the rails for a very long time, you've been rebelling against God for a very long time.
Then to actually get recalibrated is costly.
Right.
And it's not just, I need a heart for Jesus, you know, and Jesus is my boyfriend worship songs, you know, and get a little teary eyed, misty eyed, you know.
And no, it's like big, it's big life altering types of decisions.
It's cutting things out of your life that you love, that you love, but because.
It's sin.
It's unbiblical.
And so, for a nation like ours, honestly, a nation like ours, we are ruined on multiple levels.
We're ruined because a bunch of heritage Americans, right?
So, it's not just the foreigners, but a bunch of heritage Americans have apostatized against the Lord Jesus Christ and abandoned their first love.
And we can't ever forget that.
Joe Biden is as white as you can be.
That's right.
New England.
Yep.
And as far as we know, he's not Jewish either.
No.
And he still really sucks.
So, white, non Jewish guy, absolutely devastating the country.
Yep.
Some of the worst policies we've ever had.
So, it's, you know, so at every level, even your heritage Americans have turned their backs against the Lord Jesus Christ and must repent.
Beyond that, though, practically, like we want to make America great again.
I look at like God's plan for making Israel great again, and it looked like mass deportations.
And I don't think we have the stomach for it.
I really don't.
100 million.
I'm going to just say that number.
I think 100 million people, if you're serious and you want your country back, 40, 30 to 40 million just in the last four years.
I say 100 million, that representing, I would say, probably back to just the 2000s, basically.
2000s, maybe getting into the 90s.
We're not going to do that.
But, Joel, we're also not going to get the country back that we had 200 years ago, right?
Like something is going to be built.
That's true.
We don't need the country from 200 years ago.
Well, from 100 years ago, even.
You know, I mean, number one.
When I say 100 million, I'm thinking 20 to 30 years.
Yeah.
Okay.
Fair enough.
That's how many people.
That's like, think about that.
No country can sustain that.
Yep.
We're 330, 330 to 350 million total population.
We took in 40 in the last four years.
Right.
Over 10% of your nation's population in less than half of a decade.
Right.
That is incredible.
Like, that, like, there's no way any nation.
Can survive that.
And so when I say 100 million, I'm not saying to go back 100 years.
I'm just, that number for me represents every first generation immigrant who's not.
So I'm not even saying, like, to me, that's a really moderate milquetoast position.
Like, I'm not saying that.
I think saying it that way is a little bit easier.
Yeah.
I don't like, number one, 100 million people, that shocks people.
It does shock people.
And maybe that does need to shock people.
Yeah.
But I think saying like first generation Americans can be presented with you cleave to America or America is not the place for you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And cleaving to America needs to be.
It needs to be biblical cleaving.
Clearly outlined.
What does that mean?
Yes.
Because I think a lot of them will not want to do that.
And, you know, honestly, like maybe you shouldn't want to do that.
You probably are still more attached to your country, your nation of origin.
Yeah, yeah.
So, yeah, I think some kind of not allowing dual citizenship for a while might be one of the reasons.
Honestly, I don't know why we do that at all.
I know, yeah.
Like, I'm just trying to think of how to, like, me and you are sitting here.
Me and you are, we're moderates, Michael.
Like, so me and you are sitting here, like, some of our followers are like, gay, you know, they're listening right now.
They're like, we need Wes back in.
And I might go and chore.
They're getting a little bit lib.
But, like, but, but we're sitting here thinking, like, what are the humane options?
What are the non trail of tears options?
Options, you know, like, and so I'm thinking, you know, so I naturally think of in terms of first options, I'm thinking self deportation, right?
Like, so, um, how many people I don't know, like, like, would Shapiro stay if he couldn't have dual citizenship?
Yeah, I don't know, that would be interesting.
I mean, he has said, I think he loves America insofar as it can serve Israel, but he is like, he, I think he does love America at some level, but he has, by his own admission, he has said, like, part of his, his, the way he views his calling and his purpose here in America.
It is to influence conservatives in America in a pro Israel direction.
Right.
Because that's his people.
Yeah.
Yeah.
At the end of the day, it's like, those are my people.
I don't think anyone should be here.
If, like, that's how I would answer the question is anyone here in America who, when they think, which people are your greatest devotion to?
Political.
Who are your people?
Yes.
Yes.
You know, and that being tiered, there's number one, number two.
Anybody who's number one is some people other than America shouldn't be here.
They just shouldn't be here.
Like for me, I have nowhere to go.
Right.
I have nowhere else to go.
Right.
And that's the thing.
Like a lot of these people, it's like, oh, well, that's rude or that's no, a lot of these people, they actually do have places to go.
Right.
Right.
They really do.
They can go live in Israel, you know, or they can go live in Brazil, or they can go live in South Korea, or they can go like they actually do have places to go.
You and me don't have anywhere to go.
Right.
This is our country.
Right.
This is the only one we got.
Yep.
And so I, so yeah, so I'm not trying to be bombastic.
I'm really not.
I feel like I'm pretty tame in this episode.
But I think like doing whatever we can to help self deport 100 million.
So the illegal immigrants, you round them out.
Right.
Yes.
And you get them out.
But it's more.
Here's the thing that I'm just trying to help Christians, especially understand without, without, it's like, guys, I'm not being hateful towards different races or colors or national.
Like, but you, as Christians, you have to see we need to get every illegal out of the country, but beyond that, That's still not enough.
Well, it's not.
It's like when we say we love women by wanting to destroy feminism.
Yes.
Because we want them to do what God has created them specially and uniquely to do.
And unless they're, like, again, the caveat that we made earlier, there sometimes are legitimate reasons for people to be displaced.
Right.
Got it.
But apart from that, like, people should be with their people.
Yes.
It is, like, that.
It's just better.
Right.
And we're not going to be, you know, so I don't know.
We understand that we live in a time in history where there's a lot of movement, there's a lot of trade.
Like there are just some reality.
We're not shutting down all global travel, right?
Like that is going to happen.
But the ideal and the goal and the aim is you should love your people, first of all, and you should be with your people, right?
Right.
You should love your people and you should be with your people.
Yeah, I agree.
As a general rule.
And because we've gone so far away from that, when you move away from something, you have to correct.
You have to correct back and sometimes a little bit further.
Yeah.
And I, yeah.
So that's the prescription.
The prediction is I don't think it's going to happen.
I don't think so either.
I don't think it's going to happen.
I think we're done.
Like, honestly, like I, and people are like, well, I thought you were post millennial.
I am post millennial.
I think the church will win.
Christ will win, not despite a puny, weak, losing bride.
But Christ will win through his church gradually through human history.
But America, and I'm not saying the country will end tomorrow or anything, but I think something called America will continue.
Well, like Rome did for a long time.
Yeah, I think it'll still, you know, the United States of America.
But no, I think it's too late and we don't have the will.
It's not too late if we had the will, but we don't.
The will requires 100 million.
100 million have to go.
They don't have to be hurt.
They don't have to be harmed.
But they politely, respectfully, they have to go.
And we're not going to do that.
And I hope for future generations, for my great great grandchildren, I hope that books are written and I hope that people remember this and that it's clear because so many things are lost to antiquity.
But I hope it's clear and people remember America was once a powerful Christian nation and it was destroyed.
Because they didn't want to be called racist.
That's right.
I want people to know that that is the truth.
How did it happen?
How did the superpower of the world lose all of its strength?
I want people to know, in the end, the greatest nation in human history collapsed because boomers didn't want to be called racist.
That's a major part of it.
It's a major part of it.
That's not to say that there's no other element, but we had a country.
We had a country, and we could have kept it.
And we said, nope, 100 million from the four corners of the earth.
You don't speak English?
Great.
Come on in.
You hate America?
You hate it?
Come on in.
You're beholden to Israel?
Come on in.
Get in here.
We can't wait for you to come here.
Get in here.
A million there, a million there, a million, And we did it fast in like 30, 40 years, 100 million people.
And you do that, and there's only one way out, and it's an iron stomach.
It's like grit, and we don't have it.
We don't have grit.
So I think we're done.
I really do.
As a country, not the church of Jesus Christ, but I think we're done.
That said, we have so much that we've accrued over time because of the blessings of God and faithfulness long past at this point, but faithfulness that used to be there and accruing blessings.
I think we can coast for a while.
So I don't think anything's happening tomorrow.
But I think we're done.
I'm hopeful, though.
I think eventually what we'll probably get is succession.
I think America will be broken up.
We'll probably get five or six different countries out of it, somewhat like Europe.
I mean, it's just a massive landmass to just be one country and to stay united for a millennium is kind of a tall task, honestly.
It's kind of like wishful thinking to begin with that a country this size, not just population people, but geographically.
Yeah.
So I think.
I think we're on the decline.
I think we probably eventually break up into smaller countries.
And I think a couple of those, one or two of those, by the grace of God and because of his kindness, and like, I will have an opportunity to be distinctly Christian, great countries, and do awesome things for the glory of God in the future.
So I'm not like, I'm not black billing, I'm not discouraged, but I just think I just can't look the audience in the face and say that these United States, as they currently are, With 100 foreigners in the last 30, 40 years, and even the heritage Americans' full apostasy towards the Lord Jesus Christ.
Well, and hating our country too.
And hating our country and murdering 70 million babies just in the last half century.
But yeah, we're going to pull out of this nosedive.
We're going to make it, guys.
We're going to be fine.
I just feel like that's a joke.
At a certain point, I just get tired of the joking.
Hating Our Country Too00:03:15
There's just no way.
Any final thoughts for you, Michael?
Succession, though, could work.
Could work.
That could work.
That's actually, I mean, you know, I'm not saying Texas is the Christian Mecca.
We've got our problems.
One of the reasons we moved to Texas is in its constitution, it preserved the right to secede.
Now, that would have to obviously be the South thought it could secede too.
Right.
But it's at least on the document.
Right.
Yeah.
And I think you could actually have.
Hopefully, it wouldn't just be Texas.
No, I agree.
Texas, Oklahoma, Louisiana, Alabama, and going through Florida.
So you have the whole Gulf of America.
Gulf of Texas.
Gulf of Texas, yeah.
And, you know, so you have some coastline, you've got a lot of oil, a lot of different resources, and could be amazing.
Yeah.
Could be really good.
And, yeah.
So, I, you know, like nations, we just, our lives are so short.
You know, we're just like the Bible says, we're a vapor, a breath, you know, like dew of the grass.
It's here in the morning and gone by lunch.
And that's, you know, but in the big scope, if you pan out, nations just, they rise and fall.
Yep.
All the time.
And I love our nation.
I don't want to see it fall, but I just, I'm not in charge.
I'm not in charge.
I wish I was, but I'm not.
And I'm never going to be in charge because, you know, not on that level.
Not on that level, you know.
And so that, like, that's, so I'll keep talking, you know, and keep preaching and, and hope that some people listen and, and all those kinds of things.
But for the most part, I think America has made up its mind that it wants to be defeated.
It really does.
It wants to be defeated.
So, all right.
Thanks for tuning in.
Thanks for tuning in.
Yeah.
Great, great day.
And, uh, Uh, let's see.
So, Wednesday, we have a couple.
Can it just read the super chat real quick?
Yeah, go ahead.
Uh, sorry to get through these late.
Um, Michael, super chat two dollars.
Thanks.
How many other nations have an APAC guy equivalent?
I don't know.
I wouldn't be surprised if some do, but probably ours is the most predominant.
Uh, salty sailor, good to see you again.
Thanks for the five dollars, salty sailor mom.
Thanks for four nine to nine.
Thanks, mom.
I appreciate that.
Uh, mostly peaceful merch, ten dollars from you.
Thank you very much.
Uh, this episode paid for by KPAC.
Okay, nice.
And then Victory in Christ.
Yeah.
The Preterism 499 says, thanks for the donation, Victory.
We'd love to see Zach Garrus in combo with you guys on Gavin Ortland's latest full Preterism video.
Zach Davis.
Sorry.
Zach Davis.
The very different Zach.
Yeah.
An open ended consideration would be great.
Cool.
Thank you guys for all the super chats.
We really appreciate it.
Like we said earlier, so Wednesday is going to be pre recorded.
Yep.
And Friday.
What was the topic?
Can you remember?
I can't remember because we pre recorded.
Yeah, yeah.
In anticipation of Wes being gone.
So, but I know that we pre recorded three in total and I remember liking all three.
So it's going to be good.
It's going to be good.
And then Friday, we'll get together and we'll do another one that's live with Michael and I.
And the next week, Lord willing, we'll have the whole gang.