Pastor Joel Webbin and Andrew Isker dissect the historical heresy of the Judaizers, who falsely taught Gentiles needed Mosaic Law for salvation under the old covenant. They argue modern demands for special political treatment for ethnic Israel constitute "Galatianism," minimizing Christ's role as the true heir. The hosts condemn viewing Judaism as uniquely holy, asserting total depravity exists in all unbelievers, and draw parallels between Talmudic Judaism and Mormonism regarding authoritative texts overriding Scripture. Ultimately, they explain their willingness to critique Judaism despite American cultural fears, contrasting this with their freedom to challenge other religions like Islam or Mormonism. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
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Adding Works to the Law00:09:36
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The great threat to the church in the New Testament era from AD 30 to AD 70 was the Judaizers.
This was the great heresy that was the single greatest danger to the future of the Christian faith.
We look back on this and it almost seems quaint.
A modern evangelical does not fully appreciate just how destructive this heresy was.
We read Galatians and the Jerusalem Council in Acts and think that it was all just a big misunderstanding.
They really just didn't get it.
We sometimes approach it like there was just a little confusion about the transition from the old covenant to the new covenant, but they got it all cleared up.
But the reality is Paul did not treat it like some minor misunderstanding.
It was a direct attack by Satan on the church and it was far more dangerous than the attacks from the outside the kind that Paul, before his conversion, participated in dragging Christians away, imprisoning them, beating them and killing them.
No, this was far more serious than even that.
This was the church being subverted from the inside.
This was not people merely being confused about things.
These were people actively destroying the church from within.
This is the case with nearly all heresy.
Heretics mask their subversion in theological debate and confusion, but their ultimate aim always is control and manipulation of Christ's sheep.
The argument that Paul is making in this book is with the Judaizers.
And I mean, even before we open up the text, I think it's worth talking about what those people were, what did they believe.
Judaizers were Christians, or they were Christian teachers, people within the church who taught that in order to truly be saved, you had to go into the Old Covenant.
You had to be circumcised, you'd be bound to the Mosaic Law, and only then.
Could you truly be a Christian.
And why are they doing this?
Because lots and lots of gentiles were coming into the church and they'd see these gentiles and say ah, we can't really associate with them until they get circumcised, until they come become Jews like us.
Because the old covenant wasn't strictly just blood descent right.
You could be covenantally joined uh, to Israel via circumcision right.
And so they said you had to go back and do that.
That, I think, is worth reading, just right, right there, from the beginning, Galatians 3, 1 through 9, right.
And Paul says, oh foolish Galatians, Who has bewitched you?
It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified.
Let me ask you only this.
Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?
Are you so foolish?
Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?
Did you suffer so many things in vain, if indeed it was in vain?
Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law or by hearing?
With faith, just as Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.
Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham.
And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, In you all the nations be blessed.
So then, those who are of the faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.
Amen.
And the issue, right, is Jesus plus something else, right?
That always.
is bad, there's always wrong.
But this particularly is especially insidious because it is saying you need to revert to the old covenant, the old creation, this world that God is destroying, that he's about to bring judgment upon, right?
And you're saying that it's by works of the law.
And this idea of works of the law, right, that it is this merit-based salvation, you know, works righteousness and things like that, that's true.
They believed that.
To that extent.
But it isn't just simply, oh, they're adding merit and works to salvation on its own.
Right?
Because they weren't merely saying, you need to be faithful in marriage, or you need to be a good parent, or you need to do this plus faith in Jesus.
But they were speaking to particular works.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Not just the moral law of God, which is perpetually binding, not for salvation, but as a response of gratitude for the free salvation we have by grace.
But they weren't doing that.
They weren't just adding works to the moral law of God, but particularly they were adding, and it A strict adherence to the ceremonial aspects of the law that were belonging to a particular time under the old covenant that God had clearly communicated was done.
Yeah.
Yeah.
They're adding this.
They're saying you need to go back into the old covenant.
You need to go back into the old world.
And Paul uses this phrase in Galatians and in Ephesians.
And when we later in later episodes, we'll go over Ephesians and really, I think, dig into that in detail.
But this.
This phrase that he uses, the elementary principles of the world, right?
And he talks about this, and it's the old creation, the old creation world, not just for Jews, but also Gentiles, that Christ has delivered you from the elementary principles of the world.
He's delivered you from this old creation.
For Jews, it was the law, it was the Mosaic law of clean and unclean, and the various practices they had to keep, circumcision and so forth.
And for Gentiles, it was something very similar, right?
Law, like the law of Moses, but it was perverted and messed up and distorted.
But they all had, right, Greeks and Egyptians and Persians and, you know, our ancestors in Northern Europe, right?
They all had their gods that they, their demons that they sacrificed to and worshipped and that taught them to don't touch this.
You could touch that.
These things are sacred.
These things are profane, right?
The entire old creation world had this.
You still see this in.
Um, you know, aboriginal tribes and things like this, or animist religions in Africa, and right, they those are very much old creation, old covenant type worlds, yeah, right.
And and not even just you know, uh, on the fringes, but you find this in places like India, yeah, oh, absolutely, yeah.
Like when you think about uh, religion, it's like, well, really, that's just what you you know, privately, spiritually hold to.
Uh, religion, um, what we believe about God, whether it's the true God or false gods, whether it's one God or three you know, million gods.
What we believe in terms of our religion affects all of life, including, and I wouldn't just say including, perhaps the better word would be especially food, right?
In terms of clean and unclean.
And so you can eat this, you can't eat that, don't touch this, cows are sacred, you know, that kind of stuff.
This spirit is very much alive, and there was a good expression of it for a time in Israel under the Old Covenant, a Christian expression of it that came from Yahweh, the one true God.
But there were always perverse expressions of it under the old world before the coming of Christ from the pagan gods, the false gods.
And still today, although not quite as strong because Christ has broken some of that stranglehold, but still there are darker places in the world today where those old gods are still at work, not quite with the power to deceive the nations like they once had, but still at work, still saying, don't have this, don't do that.
But within Christ and his covenant, the new covenant, where the spirit is.
There is freedom and freedom in Christ.
And those who were outside, whether it be in Hinduism or some of these other things, with those old gods still active at some degree, deceiving people and making it about what goes into a man's mouth that purifies instead of what comes out his speech that's to be expected.
But within the church, subverting the church, Judaizers still trying to get us back to a works based righteousness and particularly a ceremonial old covenant.
Works based righteousness that was pernicious in the first century, 2,000 years ago.
Blessing Gentiles in Christ00:08:32
And if it was terrible then, when there was still at least some overlap of the old covenant, how much worse would it be today?
Well, and it's again, it's the question of what is the purpose of God setting Israel apart to do these things?
In the old covenant, only Jews had to be circumcised and keep the law.
If a Gentile comes in, a Gentile comes into Israel, there are many examples of Gentiles operating in Israel that are God.
fears that know the Lord and trust him.
You didn't have to become a Jew in order to be saved in the old covenant.
You could be saved under the Noahic covenant.
And many Gentiles were.
We see all sorts of Gentiles that are faithful believers all throughout the Old Testament, but they didn't have to go be circumcised and keep the Mosaic law in order to be saved.
They just were.
Israel is set apart for a particular mission under the law.
That's why they're keeping the law.
That's why they have the strictures of the law around them, because those are the people in the land that God has chosen.
And inside that land is the sanctuary.
The same in the last episode we talked about, you have the world, the land, and the sanctuary.
That's why they're given the law to be that priestly people that ministers to all of the nations.
So you're saying that a sojourner, a foreigner, could come in and receive citizenship in Israel, right?
The alien, the sojourner, is not an illegal immigrant.
They are an immigrant, but not illegally.
But they would be permitted to come into Israel, expected, though, to assimilate and expected to obey certain aspects of the law, eternally binding moral aspects.
For instance, they would not be allowed to come in and set up high places to.
Demon worship.
But they would be, for instance, so they would have to obey the first commandment, thou shalt have no other gods before Yahweh, the true God.
But they could come in legally, attain citizenship with the expectation to assimilate.
And part of that assimilation culturally would also be religiously in terms of the moral law of God, but not necessarily some of the ceremonial aspects.
Yeah, I wouldn't say being a citizen because you couldn't enter the assembly unless you were an Israelite.
Well, I'm saying eventually.
Their posterity eventually down the line, third generation.
Yeah.
So you have that, but also you have Gentiles that are able to come in all the time and worship at the tabernacle and at the temple, and they aren't required to become Jews.
They aren't required to become Israelites.
They aren't required to keep the Mosaic law.
And you look at Acts 15, what did the apostles, when they assembled together in a council in Acts 15, What do they determine?
Okay, what do we do about these Gentiles that are coming into the church?
What do they have to keep?
What's the lowest common denominator?
What do we require?
Right.
And so you look at it, it is the thing in Leviticus, I think it's Leviticus 19, right?
You can't sacrifice to idols, right?
You can't do abominable, degenerate sexual practices, right?
You can't eat things strangled or with blood, right?
Which is an occult ritual, right?
So you can't do pagan worship and you can't do pagan sexual stuff.
That's what they said is for the Gentiles.
They didn't say, all right, all these Gentiles need to be circumcised.
All of them need to stop eating pork.
They said, no, you could continue being Gentiles.
You don't have to become Jews.
Instead, it's the same status that they had, the same way of life that they had in the old covenant.
But you do have to become Christians.
Yeah, you still have to believe.
And this was the standard in the old covenant for for Gentile God-fearers as well.
And so the major threat in Galatians is to say, actually, right, the new covenant is even more restrictive on the Gentiles than the old covenant was, right?
The new covenant, you need to go back into and become a Jew and be bound to the law and slavery to the law.
And Paul is saying, right, Christ has set us free, both Jew and Gentile, both from this.
There's a reason why, after 87, after the destruction of the temple, Jewish Christians, like ethnically Jewish Christians, they didn't circumcise their sons anymore.
They didn't follow the Mosaic law anymore.
There was no Mosaic law too far.
There's no temple.
There's no old covenant any longer.
Now they're just Christians.
Those categories had come to an end.
And while the temple is still standing, that's why there's this major threat of the Judaizers because they're saying, well, the temple is still here.
We still should be keeping Passover.
We still should be keeping the feast.
We should circumcise all of these Gentiles coming in.
And it's subverting the church because it's saying, you aren't really saved unless you're a Jew.
That is the issue with Paul.
in the book of Galatians.
And it's a threat to us today, not in the same way, not in the same danger, but we're asserting when we say, well, there is this old covenant category still of these people called Jews, and that God has preserved that category all throughout time.
He hasn't ended the old covenant totally and completely.
And it subverts us in a very similar way, because imagine If you have this perspective, you think, well, we need to keep the Jews around forever.
Well, then you're not going to evangelize them and try to convert them.
And you can maybe be subverted by this aberrant theology that says, actually, we need to give them billions of dollars and give them their own country and all of these things.
Have an APAC Hamlet for every single one of our American societies.
Yeah, I think it's a species of Galatianism.
I think so.
Yeah.
But you read the things that Paul says, and it's relevant. to us here today because what Paul says in Galatians 3 is the death knell for this aberrant theology, just like it was to the Judaizers.
So this idea of whether it's Nikki Haley or Mike Johnson or John Hagee or whomever saying we need to bless Israel because whoever blesses Israel, God is going to bless.
And whoever curses Israel, God is going to curse.
That promise to Abraham and to his seed.
Right, they assume that.
Well, that's Paul says the opposite, which is, I mean, it's absolutely true.
That's why I always do my best to bless Christians.
That's right, that's right.
And that's what that's what Paul says, right?
In Galatians 3 29, right?
He says, If you were Christ, then you were Abraham's offspring and heirs according to the promise.
That's right, right?
You are Israel.
It is incontrovertible that that's who are the promises to Abraham for today.
It's not for a nation state on the eastern Mediterranean.
It's not for people of particular genetic descent.
It is to Christ, the true Israel, the faithful Israel, and to those united to him by faith, right?
Both Jew and Gentile.
In Christ, there's neither Jew nor Gentile.
They're united to him by faith.
And that is who the heir of the promises that God has made, because that's always the objection you get from, you know, a lot of well-meaning Christian folks that have been psyoped by this thing, where it's like, well well, Andrew, God says, we've got to bless Israel.
We've got to bless Israel.
Jerusalem is the apple of my eye.
Well, it is.
And just the other day when we were in church, we were in Jerusalem.
We were in the apple of God's eye.
They say, well, he's making an everlasting covenant, an everlasting promise.
And you're saying that he's breaking that promise, that it's gone to somebody else.
And I'm saying, no, it has not.
It's still to Israel, right?
It's still to Abraham's seed, to Abraham's descendants.
Exclusive Series for Patreon Members00:02:10
Right?
Paul is saying, who is that?
Right.
That is Christ and his people.
We briefly interrupt this programming to humbly offer to you a simple life hack.
This series, all things pertaining to Israel, covenant theology, the Judeo Christian psyop, the whole nine yards, this is available right now exclusively for our Patreon members at patreon.com forward slash right response ministries.
Depending where you're at in the series, you may have to wait all the way up until two and a half months to be able to see the whole thing because it's dripping out.
To the public once a week on Fridays at 8 p.m. Central Time.
But this is a nine part series, and all nine episodes, right now, uninterrupted, ad free, are available exclusively to our Patreon members again at patreon.com forward slash right response ministries.
In addition to this series with myself and Pastor Andrew Isker on Israel, we also have a whole other series that's 10 parts ad free with myself and Dr. Stephen Wolf on Christian nationalism.
Both of those series are available ad free today, again at patreon.com forward slash right response ministries.
All right, the clock is running out.
You need to go and register now for our Christ is King How to Defeat Trash World Conference.
It's happening the year of our Lord 2025, April 3rd, 4th, and 5th.
That's a Thursday, Friday, and Saturday.
And by God's grace, we're able to provide for you an all star lineup.
We've got Steve Dace, Calvin Robinson, Orrin McIntyre, Dr. Stephen Wolf.
Eric Kahn, David Reese, Andrew Isker, John Harris, Ad Robles, Dan Burkholder, Dusty Devers, Ben Garrett, CJ Engel, and yours truly, Pastor Joel Webbin.
Come on out, join us April 3rd, 4th, and 5th, 2025, Thursday through a Saturday.
Go to RightResponseConference.com to register today.
Again, that's RightResponseConference.com.
The Promise to Abraham's Seed00:15:49
Yeah, the seeds, it's not plural, but singular.
The promise is made to Abraham's seed.
That means it's made to Jesus.
And it's made, therefore, to Jesus and all those who have union with him, who are co heirs with Christ.
If you put on Christ, if you've been baptized, you put on Christ, and you are an heir.
You are a royal son of God in the family of God.
So, Abraham and Israel, according to the flesh, would inherit a particular land, a land of promise.
But to Christ, his seed was promised that he would inherit all the land, all the kingdoms of the earth.
Including him, all the nations of the world would be blessed.
Who inherits these lands and all the earth?
Christ and those who have union with Him.
So it's Christians.
And that's what we're doing by God's grace.
And we're doing it with love.
We're doing it with gospel preaching, but we're also doing it with ethical, biblical, political expressions and applications in all these different ways in the civil sphere, the church, ecclesiastical sphere with word and sacrament, as in the sphere of the home, as fathers and mothers.
Catechizing our children, not giving them over to the state and public school and training them to fear the Lord in all these different ways.
What we're doing is, you know, march on, pray on.
You know, we're gaining ground.
And little by little, we are inheriting the meek shall inherit the earth, not just heaven, but the earth as co heirs with Christ.
The promise is ours.
And little by little, the knowledge of the glory of God will cover the whole earth as the waters cover the sea.
And the meek will inherit the whole earth.
The nations belong to Christ and his people.
And little by little by little, the nations are becoming Christian.
The goal is not to build a third temple, which would be an abomination to God in Israel on the Temple Mount.
No, the goal.
Yeah, because what would you be doing?
You'd be offering sacrifices after the sacrifice has already been done.
So the goal is not to offend God.
The goal is to please God.
The goal is that the true third temple, which is made with living stones, not brick and mortar, but living stones, those living stones being the saints, those with faith in Jesus Christ and who have union with Him by the Spirit, the goal is that that temple.
Would not just have a specific geographic locale, but that it would fill the whole world, and that the whole earth would be filled with this third temple, aka the church, and that God would be pleased with it.
And that really is, you've said it several times, but going, it's all the way back to Genesis 1.
That's the original mandate.
It's Adam's eschaton.
He had an eschaton.
And then the second Adam, Christ, also, and those who have union with him, we also have an eschaton.
And it's the same as Adam's in the conceptual form, but just a greater.
A greater, you know, catalytic, exponential degree.
Adam, it was not glorious, but it's even more.
Right.
Adam was to be fruitful, multiply.
So they were to multiply worshipers of God, the triune God, and to train them and teach them in the ways of God.
But, you know, image bearers filling the earth.
But also, the whole creation was good, but the whole creation wasn't a paradise.
Adam was actually formed from the dust of the ground in the wilderness outside of the garden and then placed.
Into the garden.
So the garden, the goal was one, multiply worshipers, and two, expand the temple, expand the garden so that the whole earth would eventually be a garden and the whole garden that covers the whole earth would be filled with worshipers.
So it would be a global temple filled with worshipers of the triune God.
And we are doing that now through the eschaton given to the second Adam, Christ.
That's now our promise and where Adam, the first Adam, failed.
The second Adam has succeeded, and his success is ours as we have union with him by grace through faith.
And anything that detours from that is a perversion of the gospel.
Yeah.
I mean, the issue that Paul has is, right, if this is true, what Paul is saying, and it is true what Paul is saying, that the Gentiles are co heirs of these promises, right, not by being circumcised, right, because if they're circumcised, you're no longer Gentiles.
Or they're Jews now, because the covenant wasn't just genetic, it was a covenant right.
You could be grafted into the old covenant too.
Gentiles could be grafted in and many were right.
But Paul is saying no, the gentiles, as gentiles are being brought into the covenant and they're made heirs of the promise via faith.
And for the Judaizers to do what they are doing is to say these promises right can only be ascertained via the law.
Right, via adhering to the law, going and being enslaved and bound under the law.
And so he's grounding this theology in a theology of the promises and who the promises are for.
And so today, for us, if we say, all right, all of those promises, right, most of the promises, I'll throw out the Old Testament, okay, I'll grant that they go to the church, but the land promises, right, the land promises, we're going to separate those out.
You know, how?
Well, we just are, and we're going to give them to these other people, the Jews, right?
And that's for them, right?
The spiritual promises, right?
The spiritual promises, yeah, okay, I'll grant you, Paul, that they get to have their people.
What you're saying is these promises, right?
We can divide up the promises of God and say that some of them come via the law, some of them come via adhering to the law and being circumcised and maintaining these traditions of the old creation world that God has destroyed.
And that's simply not true.
All the promises of God are yes and amen in Christ.
All of them.
And they only belong to those who are Abraham's seed.
And he's clear.
Who is Abraham's seed?
It's those who have the faith of Abraham.
Those who have the faith of Abraham, not those who follow. the covenant stricture to the Mosaic covenant, right?
Not those who are genetically descended from Abraham.
It's those who have the faith of Abraham, right?
That's the basis of Paul's objection to the Galatian heresy is that the promises are given via faith, not via circumcision, right?
Not via membership in Israel.
And, right, we have to take that seriously now today because people are coming and saying, no, the promises of God, some of them, Go to this group who have them via circumcision and via membership in Israel.
And that group is really special.
And really, in the sight of God, that group is superior.
That the Christians are the adopted stepchildren of God.
But the natural born sons that God prefers, actually, his favorite, is Israel according to the flesh or this modern nation state of Israel.
And there's so many problems with that.
One, It minimizes the finished work of Christ and the promises that belong not just to Christians but belong to Him because all the promises for Christians are the promises that were given to Christ.
So it actually minimizes Christ's inheritance, which is ours.
But then beyond that, not only is it bad for Christians by virtue of Christians being co heirs with Christ, it's bad for Christ, minimizes His inheritance and what He is worthy of and what He has earned through His obedience and His finished work.
So not only is it bad for Christians, it's also, and I think it's important for the listener to hear this.
It's bad for modern Jews.
Because I really believe that if we dropped the rhetoric of this is, you know, there are Christians, there are non Christians, and then there's this third way, this third category of these special people that are the natural born sons and daughters of God that he loves best, that rhetoric of God's favorite people, God's special people, that is not a great ingredient if you're trying to avoid.
Hatred from the world.
Yeah.
You want.
You're antagonizing the nations.
Yeah.
You don't want people to be.
When I see one of my kids telling their siblings, Mom and Dad love me best.
You know what I tell them to do?
Stop it.
Yeah.
Stop that.
You're asking to get beat up.
Yeah.
I think you bring up a good point that I don't want people to be persecuted or mistreated or, you know, certainly not killed or anything and face violence, all of that.
Of course not.
And.
For Christians to say, yep, these are the special, holy, chosen people, right?
What that does is when people discover that's not true, right?
They swing to the other end.
They get radicalized and angry.
They are especially bad people, right?
They go from these are the holiest people on earth to these are the most evil people on earth.
When my perspective is they're just people.
Right.
Right.
They're just people, and there's a lot of people that do a lot of bad stuff.
And there are a lot of problems.
It's just the reality of the world is.
It's just not that simple.
I wish it was.
It's complex.
At a simple level, the biggest problem right now in our world is not Jews, it's sin.
The biggest problem is sin, and sin is found in the hearts of all men, especially unbelievers.
Christians are sinners, but unbelievers are totally depraved.
And total depravity exists in the heart of every unbeliever, regardless of nationality or race or religion or any of those things.
So, number one, first, in a 30,000 foot view, the chief problem is sin.
Beyond that, though, within the realm of total depravity, in terms of outward manifestations of evil, there are Throughout history, occasions where a certain individual or even groups of individuals would do outwardly, especially pernicious things that would cause large ramifications of consequences and destruction and those kinds of things.
And I do think that there are modern day Jews who have done those things, but not exclusively Jews and certainly not all of the Jews.
And so to say, look, The problem is sin.
And there are some Jews who disproportionately are responsible for pornography.
That is just, that's not anti Semitic.
That's just saying, you know, opening your eyes.
That's a tree.
That's a mountain.
That's just part of it.
But then the question is, what do we do about it?
Well, yeah, we're not egalitarians.
Like groups, right?
Some groups do worse stuff than other groups.
It's a fact, right?
And especially.
And then within those groups, it's not always every individual member of that group.
Of course not.
We're talking about general statistics.
Yeah, you can notice patterns and act accordingly.
And the issue is that if there's a group whose core of their identity isn't even necessarily what they positively believe, religiously or culturally or anything else, there are positive aspects of what they believe, but the very core of it is whatever I am.
I am not a Christian.
The core identity is a rejection of Christ.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Whenever I am a Christian.
You've told me this before.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
But I think I got this from you.
But you said you can, in the technical sense, you can be a secular Jew.
You can be a gay Jew.
You can be an Islamic Jew.
I don't know if that's true.
I don't know if that's true.
Okay.
All right.
But atheist Jew, maybe a Hindu Jew.
But the only thing that you really cannot be is a Christian.
Jared, at the very least, right, if you adopt some other cultural identity or whatever, Your family probably won't disown you and cut you off and all your friends and neighbors and everybody you grew up with.
But if you become a Christian, you're done.
You're done.
You are no longer part of our family.
You are cut out of the inheritance.
Because that's the core identity that Jesus is not the Messiah.
Yeah, that's the point.
Because Christians are very bad, right?
They're viewed in this friend enemy way.
Right.
And so some of it is just for Christians to better understand the other, right?
I think that's what this does.
My hope in talking about these things, and I say this all the time, and my hope is that if we're better able to understand the other, this group that is not like us, rather than having this weird view that these are the special, holy, very godly chosen people, they just don't have the New Testament, but whatever, they're still very holy, wonderful people.
So, right, that causes problems for people because they don't think, like you can look at the statistics, like how do different religious groups view other religious groups?
And evangelical Christians in America, right, their view of Jews is almost universally positive.
But then you turn it around and then other religions, you know, Islam is probably the lowest.
And then you turn it around, right?
What's the average Jew's view of evangelicals?
Isn't it very low?
Muslims higher than us.
And it's like, wow, that's kind of interesting, right?
Our greatest ally.
Yeah.
And it's like, we should at least come to grips with that reality that these maybe are not friends.
We don't have to treat them as enemies.
Right.
But we shouldn't just assume that they are friends, friendly to us.
The feelings are not mutual.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So let's end the episode like this.
This is how I want to end it I've thought this several times.
I may have said it in a previous episode we've already recorded, but I want to get it out.
And I think this episode is a good one to, To get out this concept.
For anybody here at the end of the episode who's listening and feels as though what we're espousing is jarring, shocking, right?
And you're like, that's anti Semitic.
But you're a Christian.
Let's say you really are a Christian and you do, in general, you disagree with what we're saying in specific in this episode.
But in general, you do understand the concept, the importance of taking no part, as Ephesians says, no part in the deeds done in darkness, but rather expose them.
So not just avoiding false doctrines.
But actually exposing false doctrines.
So, you're somebody who, for instance, would like the podcast Cultish that sheds light on the false doctrines that have dire consequences of Hinduism or Islam or whatever.
Then, let me just present this to you for your prayerful consideration.
Do you think it's necessary that Christians, and in this case, pastors like Andrew and I, provide Biblical teachings and sermons and podcasts, material, and even books on exposing why Christians should not view Muslims as they're on the team.
As God's chosen people.
They believe in God.
Why We Address Mormonism00:04:47
Or it's an Abrahamic God.
Well, here's maybe even a better example.
Do you think it's necessary for Christian pastors to do podcasts, sermons, and books on why Mormons are not actually a different?
A different subspecies of Christian.
That Mormons are not actually Christian adjacent, but that it's anti Christ.
And you might say, well, that's different.
Well, here's the old adage.
People say, well, Judaism is just, you know, it's the Bible minus the New Testament.
Well, this is what you're missing.
Mormonism is actually not the Bible minus the New Testament, it's both the Old and New Testament.
Mormonism is the whole Bible.
But then it's not that they take away, but they add.
What do they add?
The Book of Mormon.
And the problem is that the Book of Mormon is the authoritative lens for then reading both the Old and New Testament.
And what the Book of Mormon does is it eradicates and overrides and perverts the Bible.
Well, think of the same thing with Talmudic Judaism.
It's not just that they're half of Christianity, the Old minus the New, the Torah, but they're no Christianity because what they have, like Mormonism, instead of Old and New Testament, but overridden by the Book of Mormon, they have only the Old Testament overridden by the The Talmud.
The Talmud is the equivalent to the Book of Mormon.
And the Talmud is especially pernicious.
It is as bad as the Book of Mormon, if not arguably worse.
And then the Book of Mormon is a lens for at least the Mormons keep Old and New Testament.
But the Book of Mormon is a terrible lens.
Well, in the case of Talmudic Judaism, they have instead of Book of Mormon to pervert Old and New Testament, you have Talmud, which is even a darker lens to pervert only half.
You're only starting with half the Old Testament and no new.
It perverts the new because it says it doesn't exist and it's invalid and it's fake.
Exactly.
And so my point is this.
My point is, if a podcast like this jars you, I think you should be honestly asking yourself some questions and saying, Why am I comfortable listening to James White and the dividing line for three hours talking about the problems with Mormonism?
But I am so uncomfortable for the last 40 minutes listening to Joel and Andrew talk about Talmudic Judaism.
I would say, There's your sign.
You, brothers, sisters in Christ, have been psyoped.
We should be just as comfortable talking about the heresies of Judaism as we are Mormonism.
And we do not currently have a Mormon representative who speaks with every single one of our leading officials in the GOP, except for Thomas Massey, before they come up to voting on a certain issue.
So, if anything, because of the political applications, This should be talked about even more.
It should be talked about with wisdom, with respect, with kindness, but it should be talked about.
Yeah, absolutely.
And, right, I don't, no one, when Dr. White and the guys in.
Who we love.
Yeah.
I was just using it as an example because he does good work.
Yeah, when they're talking about Mormonism, right, no one is saying, oh, these guys are anti Mormon.
They want Mormons to be persecuted, they want Mormons put in camps.
Exactly.
Right.
And like Mormons were persecuted, don't you know, in the 19th century.
Their leaders were killed.
Like Joseph Smith was killed in Navu, Illinois.
And they were driven out of the country, out into the wilderness.
Right.
You arguing against Mormonism must mean you think all that stuff was okay.
Right.
Right.
Well, nobody says that.
Nobody says that.
When you talk about that, or if you talk about Islam, right, nobody is saying, well, we should just go kill all the Muslims.
Like, no, nobody thinks you're saying that.
And why?
Because let's just be honest, Mormons.
Don't have a stranglehold.
They have a lot of power.
They do.
But not to the same degree.
But not to the same degree.
And Muslims do not have to the same degree that much.
The reason why I believe that we are more fearful to say things, it's not because the Christian faith mandates a special place in our heart for Judaism.
I don't think that's it.
I really don't think that's it.
I think we're afraid.
I think we're afraid because in our present culture and political moment, there are lots of false religions.
But there is one false religion that has a unique degree of influence over our country.
There's one false religion you cannot criticize in America today.
One False Religion's Influence00:01:14
And it's that one.
And that's why it's worth talking about.
Yes.
And I think it's for two reasons.
One, because of bad Christian theology that has carved out this Christian adjacent space for Israel.
And we've spent lots of time talking about that.
It's just the Galatians.
But then also, in a cultural, that's a theological reason.
But in a cultural, political reason, in this present moment, Israel has.
A disproportional, unique degree of power over our country.
And so many Christians are either psyoped and deceived, so they don't say anything, or they know, but they're afraid.
They don't want to say anything.
Right.
And what we want to do is carve out a space where, no, we do say something because Christians need to be taught and discipled and informed.
But we say something from the scripture.
That's why we started with scripture.
And we say something with wisdom, poise, not unhinged, not foolish.
Like we want to produce the kind of podcast that you could share with your Disbee Boomer grandma.
Yeah.
And she will probably disagree, but at least she wouldn't have a heart attack listening to it.