Pastor Joel Webbin hosts Ben Garrett and Brian Sauvay to dissect biblical giants, arguing Genesis 6:4 describes fallen angels mating with humans to create Nephilim. They analyze Nimrod's lineage, Og's 14-foot iron bed, and clans like the Rephaim, linking metallurgy skills to Watcher heritage. The discussion connects Gilgal Rephaim, Stonehenge, and Gobekli Tepe to solstice alignments, citing suppressed evidence of giant bones and a 2002 Kandahar encounter. Ultimately, they assert that covering such truths serves materialist agendas, affirming scripture's veracity against spiritual deception. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
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First two episodes will launch publicly, the next seven episodes, Will exclusively be available for our members at patreon.com forward slash right response ministries.
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And so our entire moral framework is based around 1930 and 1940.
And every bad thing is Hitler.
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And Saddam Hussein, Hitler.
Vladimir Putin, Hitler.
Donald Trump, Hitler.
That's the only moral framework that we have that is operable.
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Yeah, it's nowhere else to go.
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Well, the moment he crosses the aisle, there's no reasonable, wise, mature leader over there.
You would just have the guys on the TV telling them, this is what the Bible says.
You have to believe this, right?
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When that is actually, when you look at all of church history, that's the minority view, the tiny minority view.
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All right, welcome back to another episode of Theology Applied.
I am your host, Pastor Joel Webbin with Right Response Ministries.
In this episode, I'm welcoming to the show Brian Sauvay and Ben Garrett, the co host of Haunted Cosmos.
Now, what we're going to be talking about is The Giants.
Many of you watched the episode that Ben and I did a couple months ago that focused on the Watchers and the Nephilim, fallen angels and their immediate offspring with the Daughters of Men, a humanoid hybrid between fallen angel and human being, the Nephilim.
But now we're going to be looking, with Brian coming on the show to join us as well, at the offspring, descendants of the Nephilim, which gives us various tribes and classifications of giants.
The first thing that you need to know is this not all giants are the same.
Some giants like Goliath may have been 10, 11, 12 feet tall.
But there are other giants, we believe, and the Bible validates this, that were 30, 35, 40 feet tall.
Different classifications, different tribes, different special abilities and techniques that they learned through the ages, through their fathers, all the way back up to the fallen angels who taught them various things.
That's what we're discussing in this episode, and it's going to be fantastic.
Now, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention this.
Brian and Ben are going to be joining me live in person.
At our conference happening March 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.
This is the Blueprints for Christendom 2.0 conference.
We're going to do a live 90 minute Haunted Cosmos show.
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We'd love to meet you there.
Without further ado, let's go ahead and get ready to start the show.
Applying God's Word to every aspect of life.
This is Theology Applied.
All right, we're going to get right into it.
Ben Garrett, go ahead and just lead the way here.
Give us a little bit of a synopsis, a bit of a framework.
How do we go to giants?
Where do they even come from?
Fallen angels, Nephilim, the whole nine yards.
Give us the synopsis version.
I'd love to, Joel.
So we start with giants in Genesis 6 4.
Where we're told that the sons of God came into the daughters of men at that time, the Nephilim were on the earth at that time and any time after when the sons of God came into the daughters of men.
And the supernatural view, which is the historically orthodox view, is that the sons of God is referring to fallen angels and the daughters of men are just the daughters of men, the human beings that are women.
And they create this offspring that's a hybrid of the two, a partially divine and partially human earthbound offspring called the Nephilim.
And what's interesting is when the Greeks were doing their translation, Into the Septuagint of the Old Testament, they, without question, every time the Nephilim Hebrew word came up, which is Geborim, they translated it into the Greek as giants, as guys.
Yeah, Gigas.
And then we see that popping up later through the Old Testament as well in Numbers multiple times and in Deuteronomy, referring to other Canaanite clans that Israel had to go in and dispossess and destroy.
And multiple times it refers to them, for example, like the Anakim, as the direct descendants of the Nephilim.
And they were giants.
And when the spies go in to spy out the land of Canaan that they're going to go in and take, they come back and say, Well, we're really scared because there's giants there and the Nephilim are there.
And we looked like grasshoppers compared to them.
So that's a really quick overview of how we get there.
And I've heard people object and say, Well, are you going to believe these liver, you know, yellow bellied, cowardly Israelite spies about how big these people were?
They were just exaggerating.
But the crazy thing is that as the narrative develops, Through the Old Testament.
First of all, in that context, nobody disputes that they were giant, that they were huge.
Not even Caleb, not even the guy who wasn't afraid.
That's not the point.
But then later we see that the people of God are always fighting giants.
Og is a giant.
Goliath and his brothers.
I mean, the existence of giants in the Old Testament is just sort of almost casually like, oh, yeah.
And then there were some giants that they had to fight.
And it was pretty metal, but then God cut their heads off.
And now there's no more of them.
It just acts like that's a norm.
To me, how casually it references it demonstrates how widespread this knowledge was in the ancient world that, oh, yeah, there were giants all over the place.
Yep, I completely agree.
Giants in the days of Noah.
So, some time periods real quick in the days of Noah.
But also, it seems like Abraham was fighting giants and potentially he even had a couple giants who teamed up with him.
Not that they were like holy necessarily, but more neutral.
So, Abraham's got giants.
So, there's Noah time period giants.
There's Abraham time period.
Of course, there's Moses and then Joshua.
And then you have David.
And it seems like David's kind of rounding up some of the last of them.
But it seems as though maybe some might have continued.
So, those are the kind of things we want to talk about giants.
Real quick, though, with the Nephilim, the key word in my assessment, me and Ben were talking about this offline, but the word whenever.
So it says that the Nephilim were there on the earth before the flood and after.
And some translate it, but the better translation from my study, the Hebrew word is it's not when the sons of God took the daughters of men, but it's actually whenever.
So I think that explains how do we get giants, Nephilim, and then giants from the Nephilim?
After the flood, because it seems as though this is something that these fallen angels did multiple times, that they took the daughters of men before the flood, but then it happened again after the flood.
So we're not saying that giants are surviving necessarily, you know, or Nephilim on rafts.
The reason why I wouldn't hold that position is because I like to think that God flooded the earth for a reason and it wasn't in vain that God was successful, but that this happened again.
And that kind of blows out of the water the speculation that giants.
Would be smaller because if it's actually the sons of God a second time, so you're starting first generation Nephilim again, then the giants that Abraham, you know, post flood after Noah, that Abraham's facing, Joshua, Moses, these may not be, you know, 10th generation giants that are maybe a little smaller in stature.
That could be the case with David, but it seems like when Amos says that the Amorites were as tall as cedar trees, that could be true.
What do you guys think about that?
Definitely agree.
There's some legends in pagan history of their equivalent of Og, this king of Bashan that Moses goes in and defeats.
Their equivalent, and they say that Og held on to the back of the ark and was able to basically hold on and tread water and survive the flood.
And I don't think that you need that because of the wording of Genesis 6 4, where it clearly seems to indicate at least the possibility that the same watcher and human.
Cohabitation event took place.
The fornication event took place multiple times before and after the flood.
And then after the flood, they just began, just like the rest of the world, taking more distinct clans among themselves, like the Rephaim, the Anakim, the Emim, the Zuzim.
You even see close to Mount Hermon, where it seems like some of this activity was centered around this Nephilimic activity, that we have megalithic structures like the Gilgal Rephaim, which literally means the Wheel of Giants.
Or the Wheel of Ghosts.
There's some speculation that that may have been an ex carnation chamber for Og and his body, like a place where they would put his body, a bone ossuary.
You can see how these places might become places of worship over time, where people would venerate these, you know, like spiritual beings or these great beings, these mighty men, the Ghibarim, you know, as it is.
And you could see how all of these legends and ancient worship might grow up around these different.
Real personalities who have real spiritual connection and begin to enslave and demand worship.
You see giants associated over and over in folklore, as well as even we believe in scripture, with eating people.
They're people eaters, they're devourers of men.
And just the ubiquity of these folkloric accounts across time and culture, I think really demonstrates, you know, not some sort of just collective unconscious that people are.
You know, inventing the same mythology over and over, but that these are actually rooted in actual historic events that took place, even with characters in the Bible like Nimrod, for example.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Can you guys talk about Nimrod for a moment?
Let's unpack Nimrod a little bit here.
Joel, I would love to talk.
I mean, like, bro, tell me about Nimrod.
Yeah, Nimrod's really fascinating because we don't get a lot of information in scripture about him except for his name and the fact that he is a mighty hunter before the Lord.
And also the fact that he founded cities like Babylon and Nineveh.
And so the idea is that Nimrod was kind of the head honcho of the Tower of Babel project build.
And what's interesting is when you really get into the subtitle, Mighty Hunter Before the Lord, what you learn is that in the original Hebrew text, it's clearly meant to indicate that he was a tyrannical opponent of God.
So when it says Mighty Hunter Before God, it means that he was a hunter of men.
That God was disgusted with.
And part of how we get that understanding is that Nimrod's name actually means the rebel or to rebel or the rebellious one.
And then also in other Near Eastern histories, we get clear parallels with Nimrod, like in the character of Ninurta, even Marduk, Osiris in Egypt, even Hercules in Greece, where both of these men that all biblical scholars, secular and Christian, agree are probably based on the same person.
Went through mighty acts of valor in order to win favor among the gods and among men.
And even stuff like the flood narrative, where Ninurta is fighting against the God who sent the flood in the hopes of saving the people that he's leading.
Twisting scripture into saying that the God who sent the flood is actually the bad guy.
And Ninurta or Nimrod is actually the one who's good trying to save everyone.
So it's just really striking to me how you get these clear connections with even older myths.
And it really makes you pause and question.
Are all these myths lies or are they rooted in truth?
And if so, how far does that truth go?
Even that overtone that you hear there about the recasting of these stories in pagan mythology, where the villains of scripture are recast as heroic figures, is unsurprising.
Christ Resurrected For War00:05:17
And that the God of the Old Testament is evil.
This is, again, just warmed over Gnosticism that the God of the Old Testament is a lesser deity who created the physical world and that.
To be truly enlightened is to escape his worship and worship the true deity that's above him.
And there's a lot of these rhymes that you see across ancient mythology and ancient pagan cultic ideas where they end up essentially inverting the story of scripture in a way where the serpents become the hero instead of the serpent crusher.
And yet, what we see in scripture with the giants, particularly, is that they're a rich foreground or a soil.
Where many typological pictures of Christ's victory grow up.
You know, for example, Goliath.
When Goliath comes out and taunts the Israelites, he's clothed in scales, it's told.
He's clothed in like a coat of mail.
It's like the Hebrew word, quaskasim, something like that.
And it's used to describe dragon or fish scales.
So here's this serpent like giant figure who comes out.
David calls him a dog, which is to say, like, you're an uncircumcised, you're outside of the covenant people.
And then what does David do?
He crushes his head with a stone and then he cuts off his head with his own weapon.
And this is exactly what Christ, the true shepherd king, does to the greater giant of the serpent and of death itself.
He disarms him, he puts him to open shame.
And even through his own weapon of death, Christ cuts the head off of, he crushes the head of the serpent.
So all of these giant stuff is actually not.
Just some peripheral little oddity, it actually runs right through the center in many ways of the redemptive typological story of the Old Testament.
So that's why I do think it's important that we don't just go, oh, that's kind of an oddity, but we really pay attention.
Yeah, no, I think you're absolutely right.
Giants are everywhere in the Old Testament.
And I, you know, we've been preaching through the book of Joshua.
We actually just finished with my church, Covenant Bible Church.
And, you know, Joshua being a type of Christ, you know, he, I mean, even leading after the death of Moses, who was also a type of Christ.
So it's like you have one.
Christ type who dies, you know, and then there's this three day period, you know, it says, in three days' time, you will cross over the Jordan River.
The river signifies, I think of John Bunyan and Pilgrim's Progress, there's this, you know, symbol of death.
And so Israel now led by the second, you know, Christ type.
So it's like Christ dies in Moses' death.
Three days' time, they cross the Jordan, now under Joshua, type of Christ.
So this resurrection, but they're resurrected not unto rest, but they're resurrected unto war.
And you think of the church militant.
That yes, we've died with Christ, and yes, we've risen again with Christ, but we've been resurrected in this life, the church here on earth, not to rest, that comes later, but we've been resurrected, given resurrected life for the purpose of war.
And then under Joshua, Yeshua, this deliverer, a type of Christ, primarily what he's doing is he's cutting off the heads of snakes.
He's going, you know, I mean, he even takes his men of war, his chiefs of war, and there's five particular kings that unite against Joshua, and he You know, as the battle's still raging, he wants to, you know, kill them properly, the death that they deserve, and make a, you know, a mockery of them, an example of them.
And so, you know, they're taken, captured, and they're put into a tomb, just like Christ.
It's a cave in a mountain, and they cover it with stones, just like, you know, Jesus laid in the tomb.
And then they go and run down all the rest of the men, the fighting men of war under these five kings, and they neutralize the threat.
Then they come back, they move the stones, and they take these kings out alive.
And lay them on their backs.
And Joshua has his chiefs of war put their feet on their necks as a sign of God's superiority, his supremacy over all the false gods of the pagans in Canaan, but also as a promise to the people of Israel that they would take heart and be encouraged that God would continue to do this.
So Joshua is snuffing out all the kings, but even when Joshua says, I am going to go the way of all the earth, he's going to die, and he gives the allotments of land as inheritances to each of the various tribes of Israel, not all the enemies are gone, but there's a significant The significant threat has been neutralized.
These kings have been cut off, but there's still inhabitants in each of these various inheritances of land given to each of the respective tribes of Israel.
So they're expected to finish the job.
And I think of that in the big picture of Christ in his life, his death, and resurrection that he has neutralized the lethal portion of the threat, that the lethal weapon that Satan possessed has now been stripped from him, that he has crushed the head of the serpent.
But that doesn't mean that there's not any more battle left to do.
Now, the church is going to go and run them down.
It's the strong man, right?
If you're going to plunder the house, first bind the strong man.
And that's what Christ has done.
But the house still needs plundering.
And there are various enemies along the way, but the big enemy has been taken out.
Keep Your Money With The Brothers00:02:35
And I feel like that's what you see with Abraham.
You see it with Moses, with Joshua, and David, who also is a type of Christ.
They're all giant killers.
And then Jesus comes and slays the true ultimate giant.
And then we, True Israel, the church, are going to run them down.
We've inherited the earth, the meek inherit the earth, but we have to have this mindset of we're still at war.
It's not time to rest yet.
And so you're absolutely right.
There are spiritual implications.
It's fun to talk about, but it's not just fun to talk about.
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All right.
So tell me a little bit more about Nimrod because you said something, Ben, just a second ago that kind of threw me off because it sounded like you said something that might be pre flood, but then you also said that maybe he's accredited with founding Nineveh and Babel and these other cities, which would be post flood.
So, what were you saying there?
Can you clarify that?
What was the pre flood thing that I said?
Maybe I just got confused.
So Nimrod was after the flood.
I'm just clarifying.
Okay.
And Mighty Man of Renown, are we saying that he was first generation Nephilim, that like he is half fallen angel?
Or are we saying that he's one of the giants down the line?
So I think that maybe he is a first generation Nephilim because of the way that his genealogy is spelled out in Genesis, where it says that Cush fathered Nimrod.
It's this really interesting thing.
It says Cush fathered Nimrod.
Who was a mighty hunter before the Lord.
And then when it goes into Cush's generations, Nimrod is not mentioned at all.
And so it does make me wonder if there was some kind of bastardization that was attributed to Nimrod because perhaps Cush offered up his wife.
This is like completely speculative, by the way.
We have no way of knowing if this is true.
But it would just be one way to try to harmonize these two data points that seem to be at least a little bit finicky, where maybe Cush offered up his wife to one of the fallen angels as an offering.
And Nimrod was the product of that offering.
Or I have heard some Roman Catholics say that their idea is that the fallen angels actually possessed human men.
And that was how they achieved this union.
I don't think I really give that much credit, but it is what it is.
It's an idea.
And that was how the Nephilim were produced with possessed men who were inhabited by fallen angels with normal women.
That could help explain the genealogical differences.
But the essential truth is still there, and that's that Nimrod was either.
A first generation Nephilim, or at the very least, a later generation giant, if the story is to be believed, which of course it is to be believed.
And then if you also take that and harmonize it with the other myths that are clearly alluding to the same character, even with Ninurta being the god of the hunt in Mesopotamia, I mean, it's quite literally the same, supposed to be the same guy.
Then you have to realize that he was thought by every ancient person to be a giant.
Demigod essentially, who was able to even build mountains in the Mesopotamian myth as a sort of insult to the god who sent the flood.
And that, of course, reminds us of the Tower of Babel.
Yeah.
We go into quite a bit of detail surrounding Hercules and Inurta and Nimrod in an upcoming episode of Haunted Cosmos.
Which episode?
Episode six of season two is going to be devoted to the, we just recorded it actually, the giant.
The giant lore of the Bible, essentially, the giant history of the scriptures.
And then the seventh episode of that season will be branching out into really far flung giant folklore and mythology proper that goes out across the world, even into the modern day in that seventh episode.
So, even in that, you know, we don't have our notes in front of us here, but if you compare Hercules and Inerta and the task, the 11 tasks and 12 tasks, you find so much overlap with this time period and the hunting, you know, trope that there's at least a compelling, like, wow, what if.
What if they're actually talking about Nimrod?
And just the same way that the flood myth, many of them recapitulate Noah into a different mythological character.
And let's not forget that when Nimrod was at large in the world, everyone was able to speak the same language and understand each other, at least for a portion of his life.
So it would make sense that after their language is confused, they disperse and the myth of Nimrod becomes corrupted here and there, exaggerated here and there.
He becomes a hero instead of an anti hero.
It all makes perfect sense when you think about how humans work with.
How humans work with stories.
Yeah.
Totally.
You think of Hercules, and it's like, okay, his father is a god, you know, like, and in the case of Hercules, both his father and mother, you know, but the point is that, like, he's a demigod.
He's kind of like half man, half god, you know, that he's flesh and blood.
He actually is mortal, you know, he can die, but he has this divine, godlike, angelic strength.
And it's like, well, I mean, there's so many stories like that with so many cultures geographically spread way out and very, very old.
That it makes you think maybe it's not just a coincidence.
I think part of the problem is that we think of the ancients, we think of people from very long ago as being that they were all stupid.
We just think they were all stupid and that we're so smart.
But these are people who are keeping records.
Sure, I'm sure they had some concept of entertainment like we do today.
But even when you look at things like Beowulf, that was perhaps meant to be entertaining and meant to be fictional, it doesn't.
It doesn't have the detail, but then you look at other pieces of old literature, and it's like, well, this seems like they're trying to account for history and not just a made up story.
And so, all that makes perfect sense to me.
Do you guys know anything about Arba?
He's the father of Anak, and then Anak coming down, the Anakim coming down his line.
That's where we get Goliath.
Did you guys discuss any of that?
No, I read briefly some stuff about Arba, but I couldn't remember it.
And then I got too enthralled with the Anax stuff.
Yeah, with Anakim and Nephilim.
Right.
So, okay, well, let's talk about Arba in a second.
But, real quick, you guys have named several tribes.
Can you do your best?
It doesn't have to be exhaustive, but all these different tribes that have giants are.
One question is are they all giants or are these tribes that giants are among?
And how many of these tribes are there?
I kind of want to see if we can get into classifications of giants and even discuss.
From the scripture as much as we can, but then maybe a little bit of speculation about sizes of these giants and even skills, like Nimrod was a hunter.
So, talking about classifications or tribes of giants, sizes of giants, and then various skills or even, I don't know, supernatural abilities that they may have possessed.
I like the idea that the giant clans, because of their association with false worship, had a hobby of collecting people.
And that they like to collect human followers, like full normal people followers, as their sub, you know, basically like their servants and their worshipers, and try to establish, you know, this common story we see through history that the king or the ruler is somehow the son of the gods, or he's semi divine.
He's, you know, like Pharaoh.
The sun god was my third cousin twice removed, kind of thing.
And so I like the idea, or I think it's coherent with history and scripture, that some of these giant clans probably had.
Human followers, as well, mixed in with the clans and the tribes, that they were interbreeding, even, but that they also demanded worship of them.
So you see, like, the Zuzim, the Rephaim, the Anakim, the Emim.
Zuzim means tall ones, something like that.
A lot of the giant kind of association is even more.
The long neck.
Right.
Yeah.
Even these are big people.
I think, like, Gergeshite is another one, Hivite, the Gathites, of course, the sons of Gath.
And then, of course, the Canaanites and the Philistines.
We know that the Philistines had giants as well.
In terms of size and classification, there is a kind of thread that I find that I don't think is that plausible.
I think it's more exaggeration.
And that's, I believe, in the Enoch tradition.
In the book of Enoch, I think there are examples of giants that are hundreds of feet tall.
And I don't know that I necessarily would go that far.
Yeah, I've looked into Enoch a little bit and it depends on, I forget the name of the measurement.
Ben, you might know, but he says thousands of blank, whatever this unit is.
Right.
That it depends on like what is that?
Is that, you know, is it equivalent to a centimeter?
Then maybe, but if not, then, you know, depending how you interpret the actual, you know, like the Bible will say cubit and a cubit is about, you know, a foot and a half, 18 inches.
But Enoch uses, I can't remember the word, but a particular term that's a unit of measurement that, That apparently, I mean, you would have to assume it would be small, but you would have to assume it would be really small, like a centimeter.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then you get giants that are like 90 feet tall.
If it's a foot, you're talking like thousands of feet giants, which that one's hard to swallow.
There's the whole, this is a classic YouTube or memed kind of ancient history as spooky and supernatural and weird, where it's like the plateaus are tree stumps.
Yeah.
And there's no forests in the world.
Yeah.
All the mountains were forests.
They were 100 foot tall.
There were 1,000 foot tall giants, and they chopped down these plateau trees.
And look at all.
So I think a lot of that is just, you know, mythology, people being speculative and trying to get clicks.
You know what, though?
To your point, there is an important scriptural example of a unit of measure changing dramatically.
That changes the story.
Yeah.
It completely changes the story.
And it's Goliath.
It says, and I believe the ESV, uses the Septuagint where it says that he was four cubits and a span or span or something like that.
Like six foot nine.
Yeah, which would be six foot nine.
No, the Septuagint was translated in Alexandria.
And Alexandria used a different unit of measure for, or they used an Egyptian cubit as opposed to a Hebrew cubit, which was longer per cubit.
So it was actually, if you go by the Hebrew cubit, Goliath would have been nine feet nine inches.
More like 10.
Because the oldest Hebrew text that we have corresponding to that passage in the Old Testament, which is later than the Septuagint, by the way, says that he was six cubits and a span, which would be nine feet nine inches.
So, the idea is that the Hebrew scholar who was putting it back into Hebrew is noticing the fact that the Alexandrians used a different measure for cubit.
And so, he, to try to be consistent, to do the right thing, is putting it back into the Hebrew measurement so that his audience would understand what the Egyptians wanted to convey.
And this is important because if you take the six foot nine ish height, it's difficult to see what was so scary about Goliath given that King Saul was likely six foot six or so.
He was six and a half feet tall.
A foot, a head taller than everybody in that day.
So, why would Goliath at six foot six?
I mean, we have people taller than I've known people taller than that.
We have people in our church taller than that.
And I don't think that they could fight effectively with a spear that weighed 50 pounds and with armor that weighed 160 pounds.
Two to three in diameter, you know, kind of.
Right.
Well, this is one verse that I think is helpful to that end.
It's Deuteronomy chapter one, verse 28.
It says, Where can we go up?
Our brethren have made our hearts melt, saying the people are bigger and taller than we.
The cities are large and fortified to heaven, and besides, so that is in addition to what's already been stated, people are bigger and taller than we.
And besides, we saw the sons of the Enochim there.
So, the point is that it's not, oh, there are giants, and giants are guys who are you know four, five, six inches taller than we are, right?
Because I mean, there's an argument to be made that at this time, you know, that people in general were a little bit shorter than maybe the average man today.
So, if the average man today is whatever it is, five, nine, five, ten.
You know, or even let's say six feet, then maybe, you know, it was like five, six, five, seven, you know, and so, okay, so, you know, the average guy in Israel is like five, seven.
And, you know, if somebody's, you know, six feet tall, you know, that's, well, okay, well, that could maybe account for part of that verse.
And the reason why I like this verse, again, Deuteronomy 1 28, it made our hearts melt, saying the people are bigger and taller than we.
So if there's, you know, if all the people are only five inches taller, but it's all of them, that is still intimidating because it's like, you know, pound for pound, man for man, you know, these guys are bigger and stronger than us.
But that's not the only thing that's said.
The people are bigger and taller than we.
The cities are large and fortified to heaven.
And besides all this, we saw the sons of the Anakim there.
And that's what actually terrifies them.
And that's where you get the language of the Anakim that's where you get the language of like we were like grasshoppers.
And they said, we saw ourselves.
We viewed ourselves as though we were grasshoppers to them.
But we were so also in their sight.
They saw us as grasshoppers.
So it's not just us being cowardly.
And it's like, we know that the 10 spies.
The 12 minus Joshua and Caleb, they brought a bad report.
But the Bible doesn't say, as you guys mentioned earlier, that they brought a deceitful report.
They brought a bad report.
If I go to the doctor and he says, you've got cancer and it's true, that's a bad report.
But that doesn't mean he's lying.
The Case Of Arba And Anakim00:03:14
I may not like it.
So they give a bad report.
But there's nothing in the biblical text that requires us to interpret that as though it's deceitful.
And it's not just they're bigger and taller.
Like, let's say on average, they're five, six inches taller.
But even beyond that, there are giants.
Among them.
And the Anakim, as you look into them and like, you know, coming from, that's where Goliath came from, from Gath, goes all the way back to Anak.
And Anak, this is what I was getting at with Arba, his father, it says the most renowned among the Anakim wasn't actually Anak, but his father who was Arba.
And it makes me think the language seems similar.
It says he was the most renowned among them.
It uses that renowned word.
It makes me think of, again, back to Nimrod, a man of renown.
It seems as though some of these guys, not that a giant, you know, six generations down couldn't be, you know, famous.
For such and such, or exceedingly large.
But it does seem like that the original first generation Nephilim that would come from a watcher, a fallen angel, and one of the daughters of Cain, or later on, post flood, I think it would be a watcher, fallen angel, and then a daughter of Canaan, perhaps.
But those first generation Nephilim, half watcher, half angel, half man, that these are the guys like Nimrod or Arba, and these are the most renowned guys who then they give birth to various tribes of giants.
In the case of Arba, The Anakim and the Anakim goes all the way down.
So I think this probably happened shortly after the flood because Canaan, well, you know, his father was wicked.
And then, you know, Noah curses his grandson, his father's son, Canaan.
And it's the same all over again.
You've got Adam and Eve and you've got Seth.
And then, but then you have Cain and he goes off and he does his thing in rebellion to God.
Well, now you've got Canaan, he's doing his thing.
And so it seems like the watchers saw that, whichever ones were left that were able to survive the flood because the flood only wipes out that which has breath in its lungs.
And so the watchers.
Don't fall into it.
So I think the watchers that actually came into the daughters of men were locked in gloomy dungeons, but it doesn't say that all the fallen angels actually committed that act.
And so there could be another batch of angels not falling from heaven, already fallen, but now committing this act again, who have not been locked in gloomy dungeons, taking the daughters of men, procreating with them, and now doing it with, you know, who's going to be susceptible to that?
Well, not Cain's daughters.
They've been wiped out, but Canaan's daughters post flood.
And there's where you get a Nimrod type figure as a first generation half fallen angel or an Arba figure.
And then coming down off of their lines, at least in the case of Arba, that's where you get the Anakim.
And then way down, all the way to David, that's where you get 10 foot giants like Goliath, who is a son of the Anakim, son of Gath, down from Anakim.
But what would Arba's son Anak have looked like if Goliath, multiple generations down, is nine foot nine?
What going, working back up now from not the days of David, but up back to like the days of Abraham or Moses or Joshua?
When the Bible says they look like cedar, they were like cedar trees.
Maybe it's not an exaggeration.
From Arba To Goliath00:15:19
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So we can see a pretty direct correlation to time from the flood to size of giant when we compare Goliath's size, whichever interpretation you take.
To Aug's size, which presumably is the size of his bed, which is 14 feet long and six feet wide, and it's all for him.
And one of the reasons that I think that that's actually a good measure for Aug's actual size was because another interpretation for bed or another translation for bed could be sarcophagus or coffin.
So it very well could be talking about the coffin that Aug was laid in, and you wouldn't need to make a coffin any bigger than the person that's being laid in it.
Some people say that the large bed is actually an allusion to a Babylonian sex magic ritual.
I don't think that that plays out at all because it says that Og was the last remnant of the Rephaim that was east of the Jordan River.
So we know that he had to be huge.
So we can reliably then say, okay, well, then the bit about his bed being 14 feet long and six feet wide is probably giving us a good indication of actually how big it is.
So in the generations between Og, who was the last of the Rephaim east of the Jordan, All the way down to Goliath, we have a clear reduction in size from something like 25 feet down to 10 feet.
That's a pretty big reduction in size.
And where did we get the 25?
I see we were going Aug to Goliath 14 to 10.
14 feet, not 14 cubits.
My fault.
Yeah, yeah.
Okay, got you.
Got you.
But you're right.
And his bed, if it's not a coffin, if it is an actual bed, it's also significant, not just its measurements, but that it's made of iron.
Because that's another thing that we don't think of.
You know, it's like if you've got a 12 foot dude, and if a six foot guy is 200 pounds, the 12 foot guy is not going to be 400 pounds.
That's not the way math works.
No, he's big.
Right?
It's going to be exponentially because otherwise he'd just be a bean pole and a gust of wind would knock him over.
But if everything proportionally is bigger than a guy, you know, if a six foot guy is 200 pounds, then a 12 foot guy with the same proportions, I don't even know the math on that, but what, 800 or 1,000 or 1,200 pounds?
Yeah.
I mean, you can even look at like silverback gorillas and how strong and powerful, and they're not even super tall relative to people.
Right.
So there's also some proportional things we don't know when we look at these warlike people and look at the weapons.
Goliath was 150 pounds of armor and, you know, this 50 pound spear.
I also think it's important to note that, you know, the whole idea of them seeing the Nephilim, this is straight out of Numbers 13.
They say, there we saw the Nephilim.
Yeah.
And we seem to ourselves like grasshoppers.
That's what they say.
We saw the Nephilim.
So, post flood, you have to say they were there.
How did they get there?
You have to account for this.
And the giant angle as well.
I was going to note as well.
I think it's interesting if someone's interested in someone who I think gets the chronological snobbery thing and gets the reality of how these myths actually support the biblical text from pagan cultures.
If you read just Andy Wilson's Ashtown Burials series, it's a fictional series, but in it, he basically sets all of these characters who are trans mortals.
They've like become immortal, they can't die.
And he brings in all these characters from ancient mythology into the modern story.
And it's really fascinating the way that he does it.
And, you know, like Gilgamesh is there, and there's all these, you know, which, by the way, a lot of people think that Gilgamesh was Nimrod.
Yeah.
Missionary David Livingston thought that Gilgamesh was Nimrod.
And what I love about the series is he says, like, if you were to bind one of these transmortal giant type creatures in a block of stone, they can't die, so they're in there, that within a decade, people would be.
Within a decade, people would be worshiping there.
It'd be an altar.
Within a century, there would be a temple built around it.
Within, like, the draw of these demonic cults that build up around these things, they're not just people who were big.
There is always a clear overtone of blood sacrifice, human eating, horrible demonic worship and practices.
The law of Canaan.
The law of Canaan.
Yeah.
It's built, you go and you see the things that were happening in the land when God sent them in to wipe the The inhabitants out, they are all associated in ancient mythology and folklore with giants.
And this actually opens the door to two different avenues that you can go down.
The first, going back to Aug's bed being made of iron, gets into the problem of people of that long ago having the know how and the skill to actually rot a bed of iron.
This is very difficult even today.
To do something that big out of just pure cast iron is very, very difficult.
And so it does make you think, like, well, was there certain skills that were passed down?
And if we go back to the Enochian tradition, we remember that the Watchers gave certain skills.
It was almost like they were brands for the people, where one of them taught them metallurgy, one of them taught them weaponry, the other one was cosmetology, and then cosmology and astrology.
And then you also take all that, and then what Brian just said, where it inevitably goes back to worship wherever you see it.
And you look again at that thing that we briefly mentioned earlier the Gilgal or Ephraim.
The wheel of giants.
And one of the things that's really crucial to understand about that is that the way it's laid out lines up perfectly with the solstice and equinox dates in the year.
We go and we know most likely, well, actually, we do know that it was there when Og was king of Bashan.
So he would have known about this monument.
And any king in the old days was the Pontifex Maximus, essentially, Israel being the exception where there was a high priest and a king.
And so Og was leading worship.
At this Gilgal Rephaim.
That's what people agree on.
They say, like, it was here.
It's clearly a place of worship.
And it may be a tomb for Og, since he was the last of the Rephaim.
So they felt like it was a good honor to bestow upon this last remnant.
Then we go back to Acts 7.
And we remember that in Stephen's sermon, he says that the Israelites in those days took up the star of Rephim, the star of their God Molech.
Where would they learn how to do that?
From the giants.
Where would the Giants learn how to do that?
From their fathers, who was the demon Molech himself, the fallen angel Molech, or the fallen star Refin himself.
And so it's not a coincidence that all of these concentric circle, spiral type megalithic structures are always supposed to be ancient places of worship.
And almost without exception, they line up precisely with special dates on the equinox and the solstices and then astrological formations in the heavens.
And then also, let's take it a step further.
If you go on Google Earth and you find this Gilgal Rephaim place in the Gilead and Golan Heights, and then you zoom out slightly and look.
Just a little bit to the north, there looks to be like a clearly man made serpent mound that's very akin to the serpent mound in Ohio, and it's all facing towards Mount Hermon.
And so, we have all of these pieces coming together, and it's a really loose connection because not many people think about this anymore.
But you have giants, you have serpents, you have worship of the host of heaven, the stars, the star Refin and Molech, and then you also have that kind of archetype of worship spreading from the Middle East from Mount Hermon.
Through all the entire world.
And so you have places like, what's the thing in England?
I can't remember the name.
Stonehenge?
Stonehenge.
Places like Stonehenge.
You have the Serpent Mount in Ohio.
You have the rings in Africa.
You have the Nazca lines in South America.
Gobekli Tepli.
Gobekli Tepli.
Yeah, and the sister sites around the same region.
And then you start to ask the question some of these ancient megalithic structures are really big.
And this ties in again with that making Og's bed out of iron.
How were they able to move these stones?
Near Gobekli Tepi.
I'm sorry, in Peru, not Gobekli Tepe, near Tiwanakan by Lake Titicaca, there is a megalithic stone that's 100 tons heavy and it's lifted up onto two pillars.
And everyone agrees that they would have had to quarry that stone 250 miles away.
Yeah.
How, and it's, by the way, the quarry is at low elevation, close to sea level, and this city is at 12,000 feet above sea level.
Can you imagine getting today with everything that we have?
We couldn't.
A 100 ton stone.
No, that's the thing.
We couldn't do it.
We literally don't have the means to do that.
It's not a money issue, it's a technology issue.
We can't do that.
We would have to invent custom made technological innovations to attempt it that don't currently exist.
And so the myth is that the gods that built it had a magic trumpet.
And when they blew the trumpet, the sound waves were able to carry the stone up.
We're now getting into some of the future Hanukkah stuff with like sacred geometry and sacred sound.
Yeah.
And again, we're not saying that all of these things are necessarily real or true.
We don't know.
But when you start to go down this thread of ancient cultic worship and its practices and go outward in architecture and all these different things, you find a shocking level of overlap that actually interestingly comes back to giant type of lore.
And serpent imagery.
And serpent imagery.
So it's like almost as if when the Old Testament.
Describes ancient demonic cultic worship as serpent like and the abode of the giants and dragons and things like that, that it's telling the truth, right?
It's almost like the Bible is true.
It's almost like it's trying to, and the world is not just stuff.
So true.
Yeah.
Okay.
So, man, that's fascinating, all that.
So, what happened to the giants?
Because it seems like Joshua kicked a lot of their butts.
It seems like Moses was fighting them.
Abraham, arguably, I think, was fighting giants, and then Moses was fighting a lot of them.
And then Joshua fought a ton of them.
So it's like the ones during the days of Noah, God took them out in the flood.
But then you've got, you know, Abraham, Moses, Joshua, all taking out giants.
But then we know that they still didn't completely get taken out.
Let me give one verse with this real quick because I think it's helpful.
This is, I believe it's actually in Joshua, Joshua 14.
I think it's Joshua chapter 11, verse 21 and 22.
It says, And at that time came Joshua and cut off the anacondas.
Achims from the mountains, from Hebron, from Deber, from Anab, and from all the mountains of Judah, and from all the mountains of Israel, Joshua destroyed them utterly with their cities.
There was none of the Achims left in the land of the children of Israel, only so not in that land of the children of Israel, only in Gaza, in Gath, and in Ashdod there remained.
So Joshua took the whole land according to all that the Lord had said unto Moses, and Joshua gave it for inheritance unto Israel according to their divisions by their tribes.
And so Even with Joshua, it seems like he took out a bulk.
And that works with that typological preaching, you know, Christological preaching that, you know, but even then it's not quite done.
So it's like Joshua, you know, he's cutting the head off the snake.
He's, you know, he's getting them to put their feet on the necks of the kings.
You know, he's doing the, he's rendering the death blow, but there's still the final, you know, finishing touches of the war that have to be done.
And it seems like, you know, Joshua takes out, he deals a great blow.
But we know that giants continue because we've got Goliath with David, but it seems like now they're tapering off.
So, my question is even with David, it seems like he's dotting the I's and crossing the T's that Joshua had already done.
But did any giants escape him?
Legions Of Giants Alive Today00:05:45
Are there any stories of giants in other places besides the Middle East?
Did giants make it to Norway or Scotland or any of these things?
Because a lot of what Israel does is they.
They put the enemies of God to death at the edge of the sword, but they also drive the inhabitants out of the land.
In that case, driving them out of the land, they're not dead, they go somewhere.
Yeah.
What do you guys think?
I think that's absolutely accurate that they're being driven out, they're being killed and driven out, and that they do go other places.
I'll give a thematic answer, and then I think Ben probably has some examples and things as well to add to it.
But thematically, I think it's important to recognize that one of the One of the story arcs that we have gotten completely wrong in the last 200 years of Christianity is the story arc that wickedness flourishes and the righteous are always driven back.
And if you just read Psalm 37, you see this temptation enter the thinking of the psalmist, where he says, You know, look at the wicked.
They're like a great green laurel tree, they're spreading out.
And look, Lord, the righteous seem to be, you know, perishing, the righteous seem to be suffering.
And yet the psalmist, Does not give in to that temptation.
And he affirms again, yet, Lord, you're going to cast them down.
Their glory will be as nothing.
I will look for them and not even be able to find that great, spreading, green, seemingly powerful, wicked person anymore.
They will be driven out.
So I think two things we need to remember in this kind of storyline.
First, we need to remember that evil is cannibalistic.
Evil is cannibalistic.
Those who hate wisdom love death.
And so everywhere you see, you know, cultures built around demonic death cults, they are always.
Devouring themselves over time.
This is a warning to modern America that all of our false worship is self devouring and it will ultimately end in the blood of its worshipers.
And the second thing is that the meek will inherit the earth, that as the people of God go out in obedience and they obey the Lord and put one foot in front of the other and engage in the spiritual war that they're told to engage in, that the Lord delights to drive out our enemies before us.
So, specifically, I do think that is what happens.
With the giants, the cultures they build up are absolute death cultures and they devour themselves.
And then I also think that as the righteous go into the land in obedience and don't syncretize like they do later, that you see them driven out and go to other places.
I'm sure Ben has other specific thoughts on that as well.
Yeah, no, I mean, I think that there's nothing in the Bible that disallows the possibility of multiple giants, maybe hundreds or legions of giants, being alive at the time of Nimrod that also dispersed across the earth.
When the Tower of Babel was judged by God.
And the reason that I err towards that opinion that that did actually happen is because we see other massive pieces of weaponry found in places like Wales, in islands like Crete.
Even in Russia, there's the legend of a giant warrior who fought against the king and was finally subdued by a woman.
Charlemagne, even in Charlemagne's reign in the Carolingian time, There was a legend that Charlemagne sent his greatest warrior to fight against a giant in some region of France, and the warrior was able to prevail and kill the giant.
There was Harry Potter.
Harry Potter, of course.
The giants live in England.
Sorry, go ahead.
There's the trolls in Tolkien.
Now, there's the story of also Charlemagne's sons riding a giant horse as a spoil of war that was able to carry four of them or three of them at one time.
And then there's also bones, of course, that have been found.
And the Smithsonian quickly stole them away and hid them in their chambers.
Legend says that the Smithsonian has suppressed huge amounts of evidence of ancient giants.
And I mean, listen, I think we can all agree that institutions, particularly ones in the bed with the powerful government establishment of the world, would never do that to us.
We would never suppress information.
The lizard people would never suppress information.
And aren't there also like bones have been found?
So you've named a lot of places, but real quick, talk about North America.
Yeah.
So the best example in North America, there's a few.
One was the giant mummy that was found in California that was 18 feet tall, and they weren't able to disprove it.
Another is the serpent mound in Ohio, surrounded by other, they say they're Native American burial grounds, but every time they look into one, they see giant bones.
And then most of the time, this is in like Wisconsin.
Um, uh, Minnesota, Ohio area.
Every time they actually ask the Indians of the region, like the Pawnees, the Shawnees, they always say, Oh, no, yeah, we found those mounds.
Like, those are not, we, you know, we piled some on top of it, but we actually found them as mounds.
Um, and so there's been, I mean, dozens of cases, yeah, of people claiming to have excavated giant bones, even up to 33 feet tall.
And what moderns want to do, what moderns love to do, is to go, Oh, Those superstitious folkloric traditions, those superstitious ancient cultures, like, man, isn't it funny how dumb they are that they thought the giant, like, that there were giants?
Competing Religions And Suppression00:04:28
Like, wow, they must have just thought that all up and to scare the kids, keep the kids close to the campfire at night so they didn't run off into the woods, you know, moral tales and that kind of thing.
And those same people will kill a baby and not think that there's anything religious about it.
Well, they won't even think it's a baby.
They won't even think it's a baby.
Those people don't know the difference between a man or a woman.
It's all religion.
We just have competing religions.
Right.
And Bob Ink even says in his Prolegomena that every soul is inherently Christian.
Until it's corrupted by their own sin, which I think is fascinating.
It's a bold statement, but that is a bold statement.
I don't particularly like it, but I do like it either.
But I read it and I was like, Hey, Bobby, my inner Calvinist just twitched.
Right.
That's what, yeah, exactly.
As a Calvinist, I don't exactly like it unless we're using the word Christian loosely, which I am a fan of doing.
Unlike my Baptist brothers, there's only one Christian thing it's a regenerate individual soul.
No, what he means, I did.
I'll provide some context for my brother Herman Bobbing.
Bobbing is right here.
Yeah, you got to defend him because if that's all you say, then I have you need to disagree with him.
What he means is that everyone is born religious, and specifically, everyone is born with eyes in their head that are capable of looking at the heavens and the earth, seeing the glory of God.
And so, in that sense, he's saying every soul is inherently Christian because everyone knows God.
It's just that some of them suppress it in unrighteousness.
Okay, it's Romans 1.
It's Romans 1.
Yeah, it's Romans 1.
Yeah.
When he said it, I was like, whoa.
Yeah, no, but that is good.
That's important for people to realize that, you know, it's not, um, ignorance doesn't stem from rebellion, but rebellion stems from ignorance.
And so, um, or I'm sorry, um, rebellion does not stem from ignorance.
It's not that people are born intellectually ignorant of the things of God and therefore they're like, well, I don't know God.
He hasn't proven himself.
I have to rebel.
So rebellion doesn't come from ignorance, but rather, um, people are first morally rebellious and therefore, um, they actually make themselves progressively more ignorant.
That's Romans 1 is, um, It's both things can be simultaneously true in Romans 1.
You see that people are born not regenerate, but they are born able to see true things about God, and they progressively see less and less and less because, in their rebellion, they gouge out their eyes, they lie and suppress the truth and deeds of unrighteousness.
So, the idea, if that's what he's saying, then I completely agree that I think a child, absolutely, a young child on average is going to have an easier time.
Believing basic things that would align with the Christian worldview, the world as God made it, than a guy who has gone through K through 12 in the public school system.
Hey, to bring it full circle on our beloved Reformed soteriology, even the child desperately needs the grace of God to have believing faith.
The soul is not born innocent.
No human is born innocent.
We're born guilty before God.
So, yeah, I think that they'd have an easier time consenting to the idea that God made the heavens and the earth.
But in Bob Inc would, of course, agree, you need the grace of God to be saved.
Yep.
Amen.
So, where this is the final thing is okay, so you talked about it, Ben and Brian, giants dispersing, and it could have been dispersing because Joshua scared them off.
We know that happened, and they went to various places.
And that's just one tribe of giants, the Anakim, that they went to Gaza and Gath, and that's where you eventually get, you know, Goliath.
And then, you know, David, same thing.
He kills Goliath and his brothers, and it seems like some other giants, but it doesn't necessarily mean that he killed them all.
So, Joshua could have scared Giants away, right?
Drive them out.
David, drive them out.
But also, like what you said, not just being driven out, but Nimrod before you even get to Joshua and before you get to when the whole world had one language before Babel, Nimrod and other giants could have gone to various places all over the world.
And so it's entirely possible, whether it's escaping Joshua or escaping David or pre Joshua and pre David, pre Babel, even just traveling and expeditions, that giants could have been everywhere over the world.
So here's the question Did we get them all?
Yeah.
Special Forces Hunt In Kandahar00:03:14
Could giants be alive somewhere today?
Is that possible?
And if so, how have we not found them?
It is possible.
It is possible that giants are still out there today.
I think it's also possible that, like the blood of Numenor, as it descended through the generations and mingled with lesser men, that it was spent in its power and produced less and less of its potency.
You know, you see that in, I'm obviously citing Tolkien here, but I think it's a good example.
Where the Numenoreans intermingled with lesser men.
And so their lifespans, instead of Aragorn, who lives almost, you know, what, 200 years old?
212.
212.
You have, you know, men now going dwindling in their stature and in their renown.
I think some of that could have happened as giants went out.
But absolutely, I think that there is a chance.
We have some interesting folklore and modern folklore even of giants still.
Yeah.
In 2001, When, or I'm sorry, 2002, when the US was just beginning its war in Iraq, there was a huge presence in the city of Kandahar.
And one of the stories is that there was a patrol team sent out into the mountains surrounding Kandahar to see if they could scout anything, any good positions or something.
And they never came back.
And they went radio silent for too long.
And so they sent a special forces unit to try and find this patrol of men.
And the special forces unit spent days hiking through the mountains of Kandahar.
And finally, in front of this cave, the mouth of this big cave, they saw a lot of the gear from these patrol officers laying around on the rocks.
And as they were kind of coming to terms with what they were seeing, as the story goes, a spear the size of Goliath's, maybe bigger, shot out of the cave and impaled one of the men and went completely through him, completely through his Kevlar vest and everything in one easy stroke and outstepped this 15 foot tall.
Red haired, white skinned Kandahar giant with six fingers and six toes.
And it took 30 seconds of 15 men with fully automatic weapons firing nonstop to bring him down.
30 seconds.
That's a really, hold your breath for 30 seconds.
It's a long time.
And so they radioed to their local headquarters and they asked him to send a Chinook.
The Chinook came, grabbed this giant, carried him away.
The men never saw it again and they had to sign non disclosure agreements.
To agree that they'd never say anything.
But that was after they had already told the legend back when they got back to headquarters.
And so it became an openly known lie, is what they called it, among the troops that were in Kandahar at that time.
That actually, yeah, this unit of special forces officers found a giant and killed it.
But they have to pretend like they didn't.
But the government denied that, Ben.
The government did deny.
Surprisingly, Snopes put in for a freedom.
Freedom of Information Act.
And the government said, We didn't take any giants out of Canada.
We would tell you.
Videos That Disappear Like Bigfoot00:02:32
This is an example of one of these.
So, this is funny.
I think there's an important point here to be made about the reliability of information because you'll often find that sometimes people privilege ancient folklore as more likely to be true.
Like, well, I read this folkloric account from an ancient Eastern European village from the 1300s or something.
And then you hear stories like this, they're like, ah, but that's just made up.
It's internet stuff.
It's Reddit.
It's whatever.
But those are just our repositories of folklore today.
Do we know whether this story is made up out of whole cloth, maybe some amalgamation of other stories, or is it just entirely true?
We can't know, we just don't know, we're not in a position to.
But these kind of stories continue today, and there are people who claim to continue to have interactions with I think even giants today.
So, listener, you be the judge at the end of the day.
What do you think?
If you're a giant, let us know in the comments and you're listening, send us a photo with proof of height.
Now, I actually saw a video recently that was insane.
I don't know.
It seemed like it'd be hard to fake, but I don't know anything about video.
And it was these guys, they were like lensing while they were hunting.
And they looked down on this property line.
There was a river separating the two properties.
And in between the trees and everything was this, I mean, giant human looking thing.
Yeah.
Like slumped over, long arms, massive head.
And the guys on the video were like, what was that?
And then it just kind of disappeared, almost like Bigfoot, like shadow disappearance.
We have some Bigfoot episodes coming up in Haunted Cosmos season two as well.
I think actually episode three and four, right?
Episodes three and four.
Three and four.
We just released episode two as we're filming today.
So, like two weeks from today, as we're filming, the first one will come out.
But you see interesting things even with like the Bigfoot lore.
Expedition Bigfoot is a show that went out and investigated, and they got a thermal image of a very strange bipedal looking thing that when they replicated the exact camera location with a six foot tall man, the thing was far larger, did not look like a bear.
Which is the only close thing anatomically in the North American woods that it could have been.
And so it's just like you're left with this either they hoaxed that for television, it's a bear, and we just don't get how it could be a bear, or there was some weird bipedal, eight, nine foot tall thing walking through the North American woods on an evening that they happened to capture.
Cover Ups And Eyewitness Testimony00:05:07
And the thing that moderns are uncomfortable with, but that is true, is that all of those three options are possible.
Yeah, almost equally possible.
It's difficult to evaluate.
Right.
So a lot of this stuff, you're going to end up coming back to eyewitness testimony.
And when you factor in the spiritual element of some of this and the trickstery spiritual element, you can also end up with where you're not actually just dealing with biological creatures, maybe, but that there's deception happening.
These are some themes we often discuss in Haunted Cosmos that the spiritual world loves to deceive as well.
And we are not fully aware of its total arsenal of all of the things that it has at its disposal to deceive.
Maybe it's able to trick a thermal camera.
Maybe it's able to trick human eyes.
Paul warns against an angel of light appearing and preaching another gospel, appearing as an angel of light.
So we have to be aware of deception and keep our eyes fixed on the main things and not fall in any of the ditches of materialism or also wild speculation and total craziness, which some Christians can fall into as well.
Keep our eye on the prize, though, that at the end of the day, when you look at the whole field of evidence, Giants, demons, Bigfoot, all this stuff.
Again and again, it comes back to confirm the veracity of the Christian witness in scripture of the true history of the world.
Right.
Right, right.
And I think that's the temptation of anyone who hates God, anyone who ultimately wants to be God himself, like our government, like the Smithsonian.
If there was something true today found, whether it be bones or a living giant or whatever it might be, absolutely, I could see how there would be a vested interest and incentive in those who would like to be God to cover it up because all it would do is confirm the scripture.
It would immediately take.
Credibility away from materialism and Darwinism and all the science, it would discredit, it would humiliate and embarrass so many leading authorities today.
And all of a sudden, it would be us, it would be the Christians that people would be running to with all their questions because they'd be like, oh, these guys were right the whole time.
And these guys were lying.
And so there would be, when people think, well, there's no way that a giant Could exist, or there's no way that this could exist, or that could exist, or that there's, you know, 18 foot tall bones, or whatever.
That's not possible because there's no way that that could be hidden or would be hidden.
There's no incentive.
People don't understand the allure of power.
They don't understand how much incentive there's more incentive to hiding giant bones than there would be for robbing someone of a billion dollars because the giant bones, if that gets exposed, You're talking about a shift of power and credibility and all these kinds of things that's worth trillions and trillions of dollars over time.
And so, yeah, there's reputations are on the line and it's entirely possible.
And we're not saying anything for certain, but I think what we are saying is that the Bible's real and that God's word is true and that we shouldn't just think in a chasm in one particular vein like moderns and think that there's no possible way that any of these other things could ever be true.
We want to.
We want to be well rounded.
We want to look at the evidence and we want to remember that we live in God's magical world.
So, any final thoughts that you guys have for this episode?
I was just going to say it all reminds me of the scene in the silver chair in the Chronicles of Naria.
That's what I keep thinking of.
Yeah, when Puddle Glum finally stands up to the queen, which by the way is serpent imagery, Earth.
And the queen's true form is revealed as this horribly grotesque serpent.
Demon.
And one of the things that we should take from that is that it always behooves, it's always a top priority of the powers of darkness and the schemes of the devil to not be seen for what they really are.
And so if you have a Molex state, a God state that's trying to cause everyone to functionally worship them, then it will always be a top priority of theirs, no matter what the cost, to make sure you don't see it for what it actually is.
And so it may sound silly when we say, like, so of course they would hide.
Giant bones, and they would tell the soldiers to shut up.
But no, that really is what they would do.
Like, this isn't silly.
This is just the basic tenets of good versus evil that God's given us to work with in the world.
And we know that they're the basic tenets because we've already seen them in His word.
And so we shouldn't be shocked if they show up again, even after Christ's overwhelming victory.
Chess Is Not Just Stuff00:01:21
Yep.
Amen.
Amen.
All right, guys.
Thank you so much for coming on the show.
Haunted Cosmos is now not just on podcast platforms, but you can.
Check you guys out on YouTube.
So, a lot of our guys, you know, we've got people who follow us on podcast platforms, you know, Spotify and, you know, Apple, but most of our listeners, they pick us up on YouTube.
So, if you're watching this on YouTube right now, you should go over and subscribe to Haunted Cosmos on YouTube.
Click the bell.
You'll be notified every time Brian and Ben come out with new episodes.
And you guys are, it's once every two weeks that you come out with an episode of Haunted Cosmos, but you're doing some other things too.
Yeah, we try to do on the off weeks, we try to release a QA episode of the show where we're playing chess and answering questions, and we're doing both very poorly.
Yeah.
Great.
That's called Chess is Not Just Stuff.
Chess is Not Just Stuff.
And right now, the record stands in the games, it's a 1 0.
And that's you?
Brian, you're the one.
I don't want to say who.
Hey, I'll admit it.
Brian won the first one that was on record.
Ben actually won the first one.
Since then, I have beat him in five games in a row.
And that's why it's so the world is not just stuff.
Thanks for having us on, Joel.
It was an honor and a fun discussion.
We're glad to come in and hang out with you anytime.