The Grays and Commander David Fraser anchor a deep dive into UFO theology, where speakers argue that entities like those encountered by Dr. Stephen Greer possess physical components akin to angels, potentially enabling the Genesis 6 Nephilim narrative. This discussion critiques materialist desperation for "re-enchantment" post-pandemic while warning against occult pathways linked to figures like Aleister Crowley. Ultimately, the episode posits that Jesus' ascension confirms a physical heavenly realm, urging Christians to address these phenomena through Scripture rather than neo-paganism or unverified claims by influencers like Russell Brand. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
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Atheistic Materialists and UFOs00:14:57
There is one dominant concept within the realm of ufology which describes a specific type of extraterrestrial being.
They are often depicted as small, hairless humanoid creatures with large heads, almond-shaped eyes, and gray-colored skin.
This depiction gained prominence in the latter half of the 20th century through various accounts of alleged alien encounters and abductions.
The concept of the Grays has been popularized in a plethora of books. movies, television shows, and other media contributing to its widespread recognition in popular culture.
While most believe that these extraterrestrial beings are purely speculative, there remains one undeniable fact.
Virtually all the testimonies from people who claim to have encountered these creatures have striking similarities.
What are these creatures called?
The Grays.
All right, here we are.
This is episode seven now.
Talking a little alien, yes, UFO, extraterrestrial.
Uh, you're kind of gonna lead the way on this one, Jeremiah.
Yeah, I've done some study on this.
Yeah, I queued the X Files theme.
Um, yeah, it's very interesting.
Uh, this would be one example of just the normalization of something that used to be considered the fringe just 20 to 30 years ago.
It seemed to be that the conversation regarding UFOs, alien calendars were referred to nerds in their basement and maybe fans of the X Files.
It was very much considered fringe.
There are many reasons for that, including a lot of governmental operations to try and gaslight people who believe authentically in UFOs and to make them seem like crazy people.
There is actually governmental psyops that had to do with that.
But I want to talk about.
Really, the normalization, like how did it become normalized?
Anybody who's watching this has probably seen people like Tucker Carlson or even, you know, Donald Trump spoke about it.
And you've seen it regularly on the news about these disclosures.
And sometimes, many times, especially since we have a Democratic administration, anybody in the conservative field tends to blow it off like, oh, they're just trying to do a distraction.
But the reality is that this has been something that every administration, even people like Ronald Reagan, have like dealt to deal with.
And whether it's Republican or Democrat, going back, spanning back, you know, multiple different administrations.
But really, in modern times, the way that it's gotten normalized was by way of a band, a very popular band, you know, but some of you may have heard of called Blink 182.
The guitarist, Tom DeLong, he got very involved.
He showed up on the Joe Rogan experience probably around 2015, 2016.
And I remember when he went on there, And he was claiming that he was in contact with government officials and that he was working along with them to help disclose to the public because the government has not always had the greatest reputation of transparency in regards to not just the UFO conversation, but just really a broad variety.
Transparency hasn't been their strong suit.
Just look at the current White House press secretary, and you'll get an idea of how someone asks a basic question the answer is, How much good would Chuck Chuck?
If a wood chuck could chuck wood.
That's a typical political answer.
So he was saying that he was wanting to try and really help disclose a lot of information regarding the true reality of UFOs, of alien contact through the realm of different films and other mediums, like pun intended, like literally, literally, and also in other ways, like movies, film, documentaries, things of that nature.
And there are many people who are looking at that interview when Tom DeLong went on Joe Rogan, and everyone thought that he was crazy.
That he had completely lost his marbles, myself included.
What turns out is when the WikiLeaks stump came out from Julian Assange during the 2016 election when it was Hillary versus Trump, there are classified documents that were released that actually did confirm that Tom DeLong actually was speaking with government officials.
And so, what they've been trying to do is to really normalize and let people know hey, there are these elements.
Multiple people, including military officials, pilots, who've had encounters with some sort of thing they would call, they used to be called UFOs.
They've now changed it to something known as UAPs, which is unidentified aerial phenomena.
And what you'll see is many a times different shapes in the sky that are seen to be notably physical that are showing up on new, usually cameras that are made for heat sensors.
So there was an encounter.
It's infamous.
You can look this up.
It's known as the Tic Tac Encounter.
It was in the early 2000s.
There was an F 16 pilot.
I can't remember the exact plane that he was flying.
It was a military plane.
And his name was Commander David Frazier.
And he had this Tic Tac encounter.
And it was operating in a body of water.
It was right around the San Diego area.
That's a military.
If you've ever been to San Diego and Coronado Island, you always see jets flying back and forth.
And And this encounter, they encountered something that was moving at very high rates of speed.
And it was also, but it was making changes in such a way that you could even argue, say it was to find the laws of physics, but it was something that was tangibly physical.
And what is very interesting is that there is not just this physical component of what people are seeing when it comes to these objects in the sky that is now being regularly verified.
There's even people like Senator Marco Rubio.
Who has really pushed a lot of legislation to about UFO transparency?
So, people who are military officials, who are pilots, where they can now give a testimony without really being demonized or being gaslit to say, oh, that's just some sort of self psychosis.
You can't really come forward with that.
It's going to make us look bad just because they want to bring it out to the public and try and have more transparency regarding that.
But when it comes to these encounters, and this is actually depicted in one of the documentaries on the History Channel that Tom DeLong helped produce.
As part of this UFO disclosure, is that I believe the series is called Unidentified, and they're interviewing different people.
And a lot of times, I think there was someone in Operation Desert Storm and somebody, I believe, it didn't reference the war, I believe it would have been the Iraq War, the War on Terror, where there was someone who was out in the desert and they saw this unidentified aerial phenomena in the sky.
What normally happens, the fruit of this is why this conversation is important is that when it comes to UFO disclosures and the interest in unidentified aerial phenomena, the interest that comes as a byproduct of that is not how can we get this involved technology, how can we take whatever the materials and the elements are from these crafts to help improve our lives.
The question always inherently goes to being spiritual.
The one thing that I remember in seeing this interview, this military person, and I think it was a military police, where he saw this unidentified aerial phenomenon.
This person grew up as an evangelical Christian.
And this experience of seeing this object in the sky, it completely shattered and deconstructed.
He just almost pretty much, he said, lost his faith because he did not know what to do with this object in the sky, how to give an accounting for it.
I think as Christians, though, we have to, we're embracing, we don't believe, we don't look at the world with neutrality.
We believe that all things are created by Christ and for Christ.
So, whatever this unidentified aerial phenomena in the sky is, we have to say, okay, this falls under the sphere of the authority of Jesus Christ as he upholds the universe by the word of his power.
So, as Christians, we have to look through that lens and give an accounting, and we have to, we can't, this isn't, we shouldn't shy away from.
We should embrace this and ask the difficult questions because where the UFO conversation always goes to, it goes to initially the interest in the unidentified feral phenomena.
It always becomes a catalyst to get in contact with the people behind the craft, which is aliens, which is alien contact.
But what you end up seeing is that where it always goes to is trying to contact another dimension.
Um, trying to contact the other side, the means and how you uh communicate with these aliens is by is through occultic practices, it always ends up going there.
And the answers that these aliens always give, which is uncanny, is um, you should care more about the environment, you know, you should have uh get rid of uh sovereign nations and have one global order, um, uh, be gay, you know, it's it's just funny that you know, okay.
So you were abducted, but your interest wasn't like, you know, you're in a flying tic tac that's defying the laws of physics.
Right.
From another world, light years away.
Right.
And you're in the spacecraft.
And that's not zero intrigue, you're telling me?
Zero.
Like zero intrigue in the technology, the scientific approach.
And this is from scientists a lot of times.
Like, you know, these are scientific people that have this experience.
And, and, uh, And the big takeaway, the conclusion is not, and I had this discovery for further scientific exploration and discovery and blah, blah, blah.
It's always, I've been a scientist my entire life and care about technology.
And here I am standing in front of the next technological development that would take us to a whole nother level.
And, but I asked about what the meaning of life is and how to contact higher spiritual powers.
And turns out, the meaning of life is pretty much synonymous with the Democrat political platform.
And how to contact higher powers to become more actualized is pretty much what people believed for thousands of years with the occult.
Yeah, yeah.
You know what I mean?
That's where I'm just like, and real quick, just full disclaimer I'm not saying, and therefore, your experience is not valid and you didn't see anything.
I'm not saying that.
I think you saw something.
I think you saw something.
Yeah, I find that probably the most interesting thought within this whole UAP discussion or the Greys is that typically it's the atheistic materialists who, if they have a vision, right, they see something that they would assume is from another planet, somewhere else in the universe that's more advanced than them, right?
So if we're thinking in terms of Charles Darwin, well, who's going to know more about the spiritual, humanity or something that's way more advanced than humanity?
Well, obviously, if they're way more advanced than humanity, they can travel thousands of light years way faster than we can.
We automatically should adopt whatever spirituality that they hold.
Right.
Right.
So to them, it just supersedes.
And I think that the grays play on that, right?
Because if it is atheistic materialism, if it is evolution in the sense that there are other life forms that have developed through billions of years throughout the galaxy, then essentially what we believe about God and creation is wrong, right?
So, me, I'm a biblical creationist.
I believe that God created the world in six literal days and on the seventh day that he rested.
And in the biblical creation account, it states that the earth is actually created before the stars.
Got to deal with that.
Right.
But the point being, in this revelation.
Not long before.
Not long before.
A few hours before.
But still.
But still before.
Before.
Yep.
And the point being, and then with God creating man as the pinnacle of his creation, I find that according to the creation account, I don't think that there would be sovereign, intelligent life made in the image of God other than where we are now.
I don't find that possibility in scripture.
I think that humanity is the pinnacle of God's creation.
You're speaking of sentient.
Yes.
Humanoid type of, yes.
Made in the image of God.
Real quick, can I go ahead and finish your thought?
But I've got one thought on that that I would think it's interesting and I want to throw it out and see what you guys think.
Go ahead.
Yeah, yeah.
This is me personally, right?
I think that, again, all creation groans.
I think sin has affected not just the earth, but the cosmos.
And this is because of the human condition, right?
So I think that humans are the pinnacle of God's creation within the creation order.
But assuming that these beings are extraterrestrial, Meaning that they come from other planets thousands of light years away would, in my school of thought, render the creation account meaningless.
So I think that's the challenge for a lot of people who are like myself, biblical creationists, saying, well, what if they are actually other life forms?
But you mentioned a few things, defying the laws of physics, right?
Well, if they are other life forms, how are they doing that?
Like it seems impossible for any physical form inside one of these quote unquote crafts to actually be able to withstand.
These types of movements that they're making, unless they have some type of highly advanced technology that we're just not humanly capable of.
But again, that's human science fiction thinking into something we have no idea about, right?
That's our own personal thoughts.
Right.
So, some of my thoughts on the whole idea of humanoid, sentient, intelligent life on other planets.
Like, we all believe in extraterrestrials in a manner of speaking, in the sense of angels and.
Fallen Angels and Human Nature00:11:16
You know, like that there are sentient, intelligent beings, created beings, creatures, besides just those here on Earth, you know.
But there's a difference in thinking, you know, no, not heavenly creatures, but on another planet in this, you know, in this, you know, cosmos, in the galaxy or the universe.
In regards to that question, my thought is this if there is human like life, That's sentient and of a high intelligence, similar to man, you know, maybe a little bit less developed than us, or maybe a little bit more developed than us.
My thought is that if there is that, you know, some of this C.S. Lewis gets into some of these concepts with the space trilogy, you know, but my thought is here would be some of my questions theologically.
One would be are they fallen?
So, so mankind, you know, quickly fell.
And I, you know, I would.
Be of the persuasion that Adam fell on the eighth day, that they walked with God in the cool of the day on the seventh, on the Sabbath, and then fell on the eighth.
And that's part of the reason why circumcision happens on the eighth day, this cutting away, that was when man fell.
So, my point is, I don't think that Adam and Eve lasted very long.
I don't think it was years and years that they were in the garden with God before sin entered.
I think sin entered the picture very quickly.
Obviously, before they had children, they fell.
Exactly.
And I don't think that they were using birth control.
And I think that there was no, you know, before sin, there was no sickness or disease or infertility.
So, yeah, so that's a great argument right there.
So, nine months tops, you know.
Yeah.
So, anyways, we know that man fell and man fell quickly.
If there was another man, you know, this alien, you know, sentient life form on another planet somewhere else, but within the created order, within the universe, the physical cosmos somewhere, Are they fallen?
If they're not, right?
So, with that question, yes or no?
If they're not fallen, meaning they never sinned against God, they didn't have a fall.
If they're not fallen, then this isn't the strongest argument, and I'm willing to admit that, but at some level it seems a bit redundant.
If they're not fallen, then what purpose do they serve?
Because they don't exist, therefore, if they're not fallen, in order to as an opportunity to magnify the grace and mercy of God and the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Now, that said, that doesn't mean that there's no purpose for a being, an unfallen being, because we have a Christian category for that.
They're called angels, you know, the two thirds of the angels that never fell.
But if we already have the two thirds of the angels that never fell, and I would argue biblically, even different classifications among angelic beings of like cherubim and seraphim and the four living creatures covered in eyes, you know, and then 24 elders on 24 thrones and, you know, and all that.
And then in addition to like Gabriel and Michael and, you know, certain messenger angels, if we already have all that and then archangels and, um, We already have multiple species, if we could call it that, or at least subspecies of unfallen sentient, high intelligent beings that exist for the purpose of serving God, glorifying God, worshiping God.
And some, I don't think all, but some angels, like Gabriel, messenger angels, they also exist for the purpose of serving those who are to inherit salvation as ministering spirits.
Hebrews 1.
Exactly.
So we have that category.
So, to say, like, okay, we already have all these angels, as many as God determined, as many as He wanted, to worship Him as unfallen beings, to worship Him and to serve Him.
But then also, we need planet XRP 47 5 over here in this galaxy to have the same thing, to have an unfallen high.
So, you see my point.
So, then the other option is okay, so if there are aliens, high intelligent sentient beings, I'm not talking about single celled organisms or even beasts or animals, I'm open to that.
But humanoids, if there are humanoids in the cosmos, the universe, somewhere else, If they're not fallen, I just, we've already got angels.
It just doesn't make a ton of sense.
If they are fallen, so then that's the only other option.
This is where I'll land the plane.
If they are fallen, then that would be theologically a category that is unique in the sense that if they are fallen, they are fallen and God has sovereignly determined that they would never be redeemed.
And this is why because of the hypostatic union.
When you think of Christ, so you have one God, one essence being, three persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
But then within the second person of the Trinity, Christ, we have two natures.
Now, the divine can take upon itself another nature, namely the human nature.
And that's not a kenosis theology where the divine is emptied.
Philippians talks that he emptied himself.
Well, the wording there, what that means is it's.
It's subtraction by addition.
Yep.
It's not a true emptying.
It's not as though Jesus, in his earthly ministry and in the incarnation, put his divinity on pause, that he was no longer divine, that it all was taken out of him and he was just man for what?
No, no, he's still fully divine.
This idea of him emptying, that word emptying, is that it's divinity.
Augustine talks about this, St. Augustine, that it's divinity wrapped, cloaked.
In humanity.
And that's what we see at the transfiguration.
It's not that the divine all of a sudden comes rushing back.
No, the divine that never left, it never emptied in the technical sense.
It is a proper word, the scripture uses it, but it's not meaning in the literal sense.
So the divine that was never in the literal sense emptied, it was always there, it doesn't suddenly come rushing back on the Mount of Transfiguration.
It's not that the divine comes back, it's that the human nature, rather, is like a veil is pulled back just a little bit to where the divine can be seen.
To where the divine is revealed and manifest.
So, all that being said, Jesus was eternally God.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
And then, in real human history, at a certain point, took on flesh.
And the flesh can be added, the flesh nature, human nature can be added to the divine nature in such a way that the two are not divorced or severed, but also not mixed, right?
This is our doctrine, theology proper, and particularly the doctrine of the hypostatic union.
Counseled Chalcedon.
Yes.
Not mixed.
But in order for Christ to redeem us, and we know that from scripture, that he has chosen to do that and take on a human nature.
And here's the thing he doesn't take it on for 33 years and then take it off.
From that point on, he is forever the God man.
So, in order for God to save us in Christ, by Christ, the second member of the Trinity, taking on a second nature, the human nature, if there was another humanoid species and they were fallen and God wanted to save them, it would have to be through substitutionary atonement.
The gospel is the power of God for salvation and not just on one plane, not just in one world.
It would be the way that God would save anyone, anywhere, and by substitutionary atonement.
It would be Jesus appearing and saying, I am the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world, and I'm going to do so by dying in your place.
But in order to die in place of a people as a substitute in an efficacious way to take their sins, he has to be divine so that he can represent all of us in one person.
But he also has to be man so that he can represent man.
So, in part of taking on the second nature, the human nature, was so that he could represent humans.
So, in order to save another species in some alien planet, he would have to become, but he can't stop being the God man.
He's forever the God.
So, he'd have to be the God man alien.
Yeah.
Three natures is my point.
And although the divine can take another nature, the divine nature can take on a second nature without being severed, divorced, or mixed.
The human nature and the alien nature.
There would be no physical way for them not to mix, right?
Like, what would he look like because they're physical, they're physical natures.
Um, so he would appear on this planet, born of a virgin, an alien version, virgin on planet you know, whatever.
And and he would either come out as an alien or a man or a mix, no longer fully man, yeah.
Well, a lot of you would no longer be fully man, he couldn't be.
You can have fully God and fully one.
Um, creaturely nature, fully divine, and one creature.
You can't have fully God, fully man, fully alien.
So, all that being said, the final point is if there was another humanoid being in the created universe, in uh, they would either be that's sentient and human like and intelligent, they would either have to be unfallen, that is theologically possible, although it seems redundant to the angels, but it is possible, or they would be fallen if not unfallen, the only other option is fallen.
And if they're fallen, it would have to be fallen with the purpose from the very beginning and the sovereignty of God, the mind of God, that they would be fallen and eternally damned.
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Alien Revelations Conference Analysis00:15:21
It sounds like you're just describing angels in general, yeah, because we have demonic fallen angels and fallen angels.
Those two categories are already there.
They all, yeah, they long to look into salvation, right?
The fallen angels have no redemption.
And the angels that serve us are ministering spirits sent to serve for the sake of those who inherit salvation.
So, in terms again of being humans, we're the pinnacle of God's creation, right?
In terms that we get the gospel, we get the grace, and that one day we will judge the angels, right?
So, we still stand in humanity, humbly, when I say this, as the pinnacle of God's creation in all of the cosmos.
Regardless, I love what you're saying.
I've never really thought about the theological implications of the substitutionary atonement, but it says.
So, am I in left field that I want to deserve it?
No, it's deserved.
It's deserved.
It makes sense.
I think I'm glad.
Well, one thing is true is that a lot of UFO cults will actually take what you mentioned at the very end and they will try and redefine Jesus into their own image and refer to him as some sort of alien, like, Creature.
In fact, I remember, and this is, you know.
But if he is in the image of the aliens, an alien like creature, then he may be able to come as a teacher, as a rabbi, as a miracle worker, but he can't come as a savior.
So I have a scripture.
Because he can't represent us and therefore be our substitute.
And to be saved, we need the wages of sin is death.
We need someone to die for us.
And they must be able to represent us as our substitute.
Likewise, as an alien, they can't.
He had to be made likewise, like his brothers in every respect.
So he can be a merciful and great high priest.
Amen.
So it's the mid 90s, and I'm in high school.
I believe I'm in 10th grade, and I'm at my computer class.
And I'm doing homework, I'm doing extracurricular credit, and the internet is a brand new thing.
And at least for me, I'm not sure that Al Gore had recently invented it, of course.
So shout out to Mr. Gore.
He's cool.
Yeah, he may have done that.
Yeah.
So I was there, and it just so happens there was a group called Heaven's Gate that had just all killed themselves.
Some of you may have heard about that.
And I was curious.
And so when that happened back in the late 90s, all these millennial cults kind of leading up to the year 2000 is that it was very intriguing.
It was the biggest known cult mass suicide since Jonestown.
It had a lot of attention.
And I remember I went to the website.
Like that website got a lot of hits.
Some of you may have visually know that website.
Heaven's Gate is just one of those cultural phenomena.
So I went and checked it out.
And I remember.
Looking at some of their statement of faith and some of their beliefs.
And one of them was that they looked at the story of Jesus' baptism, where the light comes shining down from heaven and says, This is my son, whom I am well pleased.
They went and interpreted that, that was one of the first noted alien encounters.
They tried to utilize that to say that Jesus was just an exalted extraterrestrial being.
Now, we can all laugh at that and make fun of that, but the reality is that you had people in the early 90s from many, many people who are very Well off, who are, I mean, cults also, they tend to recruit people that are intelligent, who are well successful in life because they tend to have a lot more money you can extrapolate versus somebody who's just a wealthy recipient.
So they do.
So usually, when you look at people who are cult members who get sucked into a cult, they tend to be very wealthy and intelligent people.
And when you actually look at the Rolodex of people who were in Heaven's Gate, who did believe that upon Putting a certain amount of change in your pocket, putting on a certain amount of clothing with particular colors.
And also, if we're all going to take this particular poison at this time and be laid out, we are going to ascend into, what was it, Haley's?
Hale Bob Comet.
Hale Bob Comet.
So, this isogesis, you know, like about bad theology hurts people.
This convinced 20 plus people who were very intelligent from different backgrounds to all kill themselves.
And they came to the other side.
Facing a very different situation than the bag of goods that was sold to them.
So, this is why it's important to really embrace what you're talking about through understanding the lens of the incarnation.
Because I was actually going to argue, and I'm glad you brought that up, is because many will take the UFO conversation and they will deal with it through two different lenses.
You have those who kind of will hold to atheistic naturalistic materialism.
There's someone named Louis Elizondo.
If you're at all familiar with the UFO conversation, you'll recognize his name.
He's one of the most outspoken officials.
He no longer represents the U.S. government, but he's someone who's a naturalistic materialist.
So the only real risk that he sees in regards to the unidentified aerial phenomena.
It's a national security issue because I mentioned that F 16 Tic Tac encounter.
If that had been like a Russian pilot or it was a Chinese air fighter, the airspace that they were in, it would have been considered an act of war.
The reason why there's been no war because no one really knows what that was.
But they're viewing it strictly through the lens of naturalistic materialism.
However, then you have people on the exact opposite side who will just say UFOs are demons.
UFOs are demons.
But If you just adhere to that, well, there's a huge amount of material, like a material aspect you cannot ignore.
Well, what do you do with the physical elements?
Like, how are, if it's just demons, how are they showing up on heat sensors and these other, you know, flight navigation tools?
Like, how does that work?
And I think what you end up seeing, as we mentioned in our previous episode on the occult, is the reference to elemental spirits.
And while fallen angels cannot create, However, they can manipulate.
You see that specifically, as I mentioned also in one of our previous discussions, when it came to the encounter that Moses had before Pharaoh.
Aaron showed the power of God through throwing down its staff, it turned into a snake.
Pharaoh's sorcerers, his practitioners of dark arts, they emulated that.
So, in the same way, I believe that there are ways in which, in the same way in which the incarnation came, the word became flesh and dwelt among us.
I believe that there are elemental spirits, there are fallen entities, and they do have on some level a power to create be a counterfeit incarnation, a counterfeit blending of the material and immaterial.
And that's because that's where you see it show an encounter will show up in a notably physical occupational space, but where it ends up going is inherently spiritual.
And that's where I think you can give a real accounting for some of these UFO encounters.
So let me just give a couple examples that are notable.
So many of you will.
Many sometimes who are objecting, who are crossing their arms are skeptical because they view it strictly through the lens of U.S. politics, U.S. policy.
So many times when we talk about a hearing on UFO disclosures, because right now we're dealing with the Biden administration, many in the conservative space will kind of laugh it off and ignore it.
Oh, this is just a distraction from what's going on at the border.
This is just a distraction from inflation, what have you, whatever the current thing is.
Now, while that may be a little bit true, there is something that's truly tangible that goes back, again, through multiple administrations.
If you disconnect yourself from US public policy, the whole relation of the United States government with UFOs, there's a completely different incident that was very infamous that took place in Brazil in the 1990s.
It was a place in Virginia, Brazil.
I was looking it up to make sure it was accurate.
There's a documentary that came out about it called Moment of Contact.
And what it was is that there was a notable area, there was a spacecraft that multiple independent lines of testimony and witness of people in this area in Virginia, Brazil.
Saw and witnessed a spacecraft crash into this area right outside of town.
And then there's a private school, a private girls' school that you have now.
This is 30 years in the documentary.
They interview three women who 30 years later they all swear and attest by, and it completely changed all their presuppositions about the world and how to make sense of the world.
They saw something in their schoolyard.
They go back to the location, and you know, sometimes you can look at someone, you know that, okay, maybe they're confused about what that actually was, but they unequivocally believe.
Know what they saw.
They might be confused.
You know what they saw.
They're not lying.
Right.
And that's what I saw.
And what they end up all encountering, they all testified that they, multiple people in this town, all testified that they had contact physically.
There was something that was physically there that looked like a gray.
It was shaped in such a way.
And this is a small town in Brazil that's completely disconnected from Roswell, from Area 51, any of that.
But then again, they are looking at something that is tangibly dark, has the same shape of a gray that we'll talk about.
And there's even within the town, there were people who actually put their hands on these creatures.
And they get the sworn testimony of doctors who said that these people died shortly thereafter.
And then you had government officials who came and went to cover this up.
This is the government of Brazil.
So, what you're really seeing.
I think you're going to continue to see multiple different areas all over the world where encounters like these have happened.
They're inherently spiritual.
That's where it goes to, but there's a physical element you can't ignore.
But it always goes down to who are we ontologically as beings?
How do we transcend?
How do we look beyond?
And just jumping back to one other example, and then we're jumping to the graves and what they actually are.
The fact that it does lead to occultic spirit contact, that's where the UFO conversation goes.
One of the most notable people who have had who's really pushed that is Dr. Stephen Greer.
He's shown up, he's been on the Sean Ryan show.
He has his other documentaries, but he really advocates for CE5 disclosures, close encounters of the fifth kind, where you cross over and you get you can surpass the government and their cover ups.
And because his arguments that the government does not want you to truly understand your true self and this true secret hidden knowledge.
So let's transcend, let's surpass the minimum of the US government.
Do a CE5 disclosure.
So, when you watch some of the documentaries that Dr. Stephen Greer has done, what you end up seeing the first part of it will be intrigue and it will talk about things that are tangibly true regarding the government not being as transparent in any way, shape, or form regarding the UFO conversation and gaslighting those who have had UFO encounters.
But then the second half of it, they're doing seances.
It's like a druidism ritual, like out in the desert, and you start seeing objects.
In the sky, it's something that Tom DeLong did with him.
He talks about when he was going through the process of doing these encounters, it terrified him, yeah, it terrified him.
And he started getting in contact with these entities at three o'clock in the morning, which just so happens to be the witching hour.
Um, what when you look at uh Demi Lovato, who has been a notable pop star, and she her gender confusion the catalyst for that was her um her relationship with Dr. Stephen Greer and going out to the desert, and that was her initial.
Contact with getting in contact with familiar spirits.
And, you know, she's done a lot of things with, you know, ghost hunting and just you can actually parallel all her misconfusion and giving her different pronouns and all that.
It directly correlates to her trying to contact over to the other side, which is, again, why neo-paganism always leads to an inversal of the created order.
So you see that happening.
But yeah, so there's a history that goes back to it.
It leads to the occult.
It leads to the contact with these grays.
And these aren't people who are just, these aren't creatures that are showing you how to do advanced technology.
They're about, hey, let's question whether or not Jesus was really the Son of God.
Let me tell you about the secret esoteric.
They're conducted by aliens.
Yes.
And the conversation that's happening is not wormholes and how to achieve, you know, light speed.
Right.
The conversation that transpires is let me tell you why Jesus is not the Son of God.
Right.
And so what it really boils down to is that you see a lot of you in the graves even before these encounters happened.
It just so happens one of the most notable occultists of the last 100 years is Aleister Crowley.
And Andrew, talk just a little bit about what he discovered the relationship between Aleister Crowley and the Grays.
So let me just say we have a 10 part series, which is a historical analysis over a millennia of aliens.
It's called Alien Revelations.
It's done by Colin Samuel.
You can go to thecultishow.com or our podcast and you should check those out.
It's an amazing historical analysis that goes over even abduction from a thousand years ago, where these forms weren't just taking the The forms of grays, but actually in the forms of fairies, right?
Abducting people.
There's abduction accounts of fairies.
There's accounts of people seeing flying ships in the sky, like literal flying ships with sails, like how these beings would appear to people in such a way that they can actually fool them the most throughout time.
So there's a historical analysis that we have, even going back to a quote unquote Christian magician in the Queen's Court called John Dee, who is doing occult rituals, contacting these otherworldly interdimensional.
Beings from other planets that were giving him information that we're hearing about, which is a one world government, yada, yada, to even Immanuel Swedenborg, who contacted these types of entities through occultic practices, the Greys, essentially, that gave him the same type of information a one world order, different forms of government, even celestial marriage, quote unquote, really interesting.
But thinking about Aleister Crowley here, he was someone who also practiced occult.
Rituals.
There's something called theurgy that Aleister Crowley practiced.
And we talked about the Hermeticism.
Coming from Hermeticism is the doctrine for them, of course, of theurgy.
So Aleister Crowley practiced these things.
And he actually summoned an entity that he called LAM.
It's L A M.
It's what you would think when you think of a gray.
It's like this little short man that's like about this tall with an inverted triangle head with his almond shaped eyes.
You can Google it.
He drew it.
Abduction Testimony and Jesus00:06:44
You can go see it on the internet.
Anyways, in Stephen Greer's documentary Close Encounters of the Fifth Kind, they're in the middle of doing a transcendental meditation in order to make these orbs appear in the sky.
And they take photos, right?
They're always trying to capture these things.
And in one of the photos, right in between two individuals, it looks just like Lamb from Aleister Crowley.
Like it's almost identical.
Of course, it has that translucent looking nature to it, but it's the same size, same image.
And of course, what does Dr. Stephen Greer believe?
He believes that we need to make a whole new world type of order.
That the government is fighting against, and that the gospel is given essentially through a higher revelation of who you are and through close encounters of the fifth kind, you can truly love your neighbor and create a one world existence and sharing and loving all things.
Like that's literally what he teaches in that documentary.
I remember watching that.
It was me, you, and did Pastor Jeff watch it with us, or was it just me and you?
I think it was us.
I think it was us.
Yeah, man.
I know he's seen that.
I know he's seen these very, Pastor Jeff is very familiar with Dr. Steven Gross.
Yeah, I do highly recommend, guys, to get our 10 episodes on the historical origins, at least, of alien revelations.
It's done really well, it's well documented, well researched, and it'll give you a different perspective, right?
Like they're grays now to us because that's what seems so enthralling, right?
To our materialistic minds that we're living in.
But they appeared as other things to people in other times, which was enthralling to them, which I find interesting.
What's also what you'll find fascinating, going back to what we quoted earlier, quoting Dr. Gary North, that the rise of occultism always marks the ending of a civilization of a certain period of time.
And so you will actually see a lot of even artwork way prior to Roswell and all that stuff in like the medieval times, like during the Dark Ages and even these Renaissance paintings that depict.
During times where the occult was high on the rise in paganism, which is surging of objects in the sky that somewhat even resemble the UFO encounters that people now modernly have seen and have testimony of.
So you'll see a direct correlation in the occult.
And even one of the fascinating areas when it comes to UFO encounters is also the alien abduction part of it.
Those who have had testimony, they believe they've gotten abducted by a ship where they're being experimented and tortured on, it usually.
That person being targeted usually doesn't come out of a vacuum or just something arbitrary.
It usually comes from somebody who's been toying around with something they should not be messing with, something that is occultic in nature, whether it's a tarot card reading or if it's somebody dealing with a medium, doing palm reading.
There's usually some sort of gateway they've done to open up the opportunity for that encounter.
So it's not just, hey, this person has some cash.
Let's do some kidnap and ransom with the U.S. government.
Right.
It's not a typical what you typically like what people are kidnapped for.
And what you will end up seeing, though, there's one consistent testimony that's happened amongst alien abductions and when they're being experimented and tortured, is that all of a sudden there's this inkling to call out to the name of Jesus of Nazareth.
And you will see, and this is multiple places all throughout the world where this has happened.
Of Jesus is invoked, the abduction, the encounters, the torture, the experimentation, it stops.
There is something to that.
And these are people who are not even regenerate because there is something that's just powerful in that name.
You know, like it says in James, the demons, they fear God and they tremble.
So all of a sudden, when they know that name, they disappear.
And so, what is important, I think, is that, again, this whole conversation regarding UFOs, it's another.
Area where people will look at these issues separately, the right DMT, the astral realm, looking at Burning Man, and now the conversation regarding UFOs and aliens.
We're trying to view the things all separate in part.
But again, what we're seeing is that these are all micro elements, they're microcosms of an exchange of worldviews where the final reality is not a true distinction.
Between creator and creation, two ism, what you're seeing is that it's a reversal now of an adoption of one ism, a complete reversal of the created order, where people are accepting that in all of these different practices, the rise of these transformational festivals, all of this is because now, as a whole, we are seeing the Western world fully embrace one ism.
All these things are the microcosms of it.
And this is why.
You know, those who are interested in UFOs, I think as Christians, we should not fear this.
This shouldn't shake our faith.
When I, the more that I study this subject and it's fascinating, the more it emboldens me because I see the realm, I see the nature of Scripture, how Scripture describes the dimensions, the material and the immaterial realm.
I know that I can give an accounting for what these alien objects are because I view it through the lens of a God who is sovereign, who upholds his creation by the word of his power.
And that is someone who's fully God and fully man.
And I can view the subject through the lens of the incarnation.
I can give full credence to the material part of UFO spaceships or these aerial phenomena, and also the material and the immaterial parts of it.
I can make sense why they're showing up on physical radar.
I can give an accounting for why this tic tac encounter happened with Commander David Fraser and why these things took place.
And I can give an accounting for that.
And I can also give an accounting for what happens when someone dabbles in the occult.
The same entity, the same sort of contact with little green men that comes by way through attempting to contact the grays is the same realm that is God calls off limits that one gets into when they start taking pharmakia, when they start taking the DMT or psilocybin mushrooms.
And there's a consistency between those who have had.
DMT, Occultism, and Grays00:02:16
The alien encounters or attempted alien contact that Dr. Stephen Greer is doing, and those like Russell Brand and Joe Rogan who talk about what their experiences of contact in the other side.
You see the same thing.
So rather than be shying away from it, oh, this is fringe, I think this is something we need to embrace because this is, again, an opportunity to give people the hope of the gospel.
Rather, so something we should embrace and take head on rather than shrink and fear and be fearful of it.
Real quick.
Before we continue with the show, I wanted to let you know that this is actually just one episode of a 10 part series that we will be slowly releasing to the public on places like YouTube and your favorite podcast platform over the coming months.
However, if you want to get all 10 of these episodes right now, early access and ad free, we are making them available exclusively for our Patreon members over at patreon.com forward slash right response.
Ministries.
Here are the titles for just a few of those episodes.
We've got transhumanism and artificial intelligence.
We also have DMT and the astral realm.
We also have neopaganism.
And another of my favorite episodes is an entire episode devoted to the grays.
So again, head on over to patreon.com forward slash right response ministries and sign up for our silver tier, which is just $5 a month, and you'll be able to get all 10 of these episodes.
Ad free right now.
And if you join us at the gold tier for just $10 a month, you'll get early access ad free for the full 10 episodes plus an additional live stream that I and the guys who join me for this series that's Jeremiah Roberts and Andrew Suncrant the three of us will be doing live streams where we'll be taking questions from you, our gold tier Patreon members, and providing for you the best answers that we possibly can from the Word of God.
So, Don't delay.
Go to patreon.com forward slash right response ministries and become a supporter today.
Amen.
A Puny God in a Desperate World00:04:42
I think, you know, a couple things here towards the end of the episode.
Just big picture theology.
I think one is like, well, why so much fascination?
Well, Andrew was helpful in giving us some of the history and saying, this has happened before, you know, but it always fits within the frame of the culture of that time, you know.
So whether it's, you know, ships, like, and not like spaceships, but ships that would sail on the sea with, you know, like, you know, wooden.
Boats in the air in a particular century, in a particular place, versus aliens and spaceships today.
So, one, it's not entirely novel.
But that said, I think it's perfectly fair to concede and say, yeah, but it does seem pretty widespread, like quickly growing, this fascination with aliens, with the grays and UFOs and all these kinds of things.
So, one way to account for that that I think is helpful, just big picture stuff here is.
I think it's because the world is desperate to re enchant itself that the God of science has proven to be a puny God.
You know, you think of like the Hulk, you know, like, you know, with Loki, puny God, you know.
And so the God of science has been recently, you know, publicly put to shame through a little thing called Dr. Fauci and COVID.
Dr. Fauci, I mean, he literally said, I am the science.
I am science incarnate, right?
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God.
In the beginning, was Fauci?
Yeah, in terms of this God, this lowercase g, you know, false God, the God of science, Fauci would be, and the science took on flesh and dwelt among us and screwed over entire, you know, planet.
You don't need to wear a mask.
It's totally fine.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
So I think, seriously, I think like, so what's the reason?
And it's not to say that there was no fascination with extraterrestrial beings, you know, before 2020.
But my point is, I think there's multiple reasons, but one is a general reason is I think.
The world is desperate to re enchant itself.
Darwinian materialism, that the world is just stuff, has the verdict has finally come.
You know, the jury's back in.
And it turns out it is radically dissatisfying.
The average person is just, that's not enough.
It doesn't, there's something in their soul that's still longing.
It's not enough.
That's not a good enough answer to just say, well, protons, you know, and neurons and this and that.
And they're like, okay, like, sure.
Like, I'm not even discounting that.
Sure, the material world is real.
There is material, and certain materials interact with other materials and produce these results.
And yeah, sure, like I'm not an idiot.
But is that all there is?
Like, what about the soul?
What about the beyond?
And the reality is that the Christian worldview accounts for both.
It accounts for stuff, matter, material, and it doesn't say, oh, matter doesn't matter.
No, matter matters.
God cares about, you know, He loves.
The world, and not just people on the world.
Certainly, there's a particular love for those created in his image, but he has a love for every sparrow that falls to the ground and the lilies of the field.
He clothes them.
He has a love for the world, not just as it represents the human population as a whole, but the cosmos that he made.
He said it's good and he loves it.
So the material does exist, but the immaterial, the spiritual exists as well.
And the world, I think, is desperate to be re enchanted.
The last thing I'll say is okay, so that explains people in general, culture in general, why a fascination with.
The extraterrestrial and aliens, because their science has failed them, and materialism, Darwinianism, did not like a typical politician.
It made some lofty promises, but it did not deliver.
And so they're desperate to fill in the gaps with this looking to the spiritual.
Maybe aliens are the answer, but they're still steeped in Darwinianism, even if they don't realize it.
It's like two fish passing each other in the ocean, and one says, Hey, the water sure is nice today, and the other fish says, What's water?
Like that.
So, even when they try to think of the spiritual, they still can't help themselves but put the spiritual into a material framework, you know, aka.
So, how do you come up with something supernatural, magical, but still within your Darwinian framework that you can't help but have because you're a 21st century, you know, Western modern?
Well, you know, what do you call that?
You call it aliens.
That's what you call it.
So, there's that.
Finite Spirits and New Age Errors00:09:30
But why Christian fascination?
Because it's not just people in general.
That's the final thing that I wanted to address.
The Christian fascination, I think, with, um, With extraterrestrials, and I think there's a lot of reasons for it, but one, and this is just one, one reason I think is because of such poor angelology, such poor demonology, especially within the Reformed world, but Christians in general.
The Reformed world has failed because they just won't touch it.
And then a lot of other evangelical worlds, and especially charismatics, they fail because they'll touch it, they'll go there, but they get real wacky, you know, and so they go, you know, in some ways too far or they just go.
In this area or that area, it's just wacky.
And so I don't think there has been a lot of good Christian doctrine and teaching on the angelic and on the demonic.
And I mean, in the sense of not just terms of the rubric of good and evil, moral and immorality, but I mean, like, getting to ontological questions and like, are angels pure spirit?
Or is there a physical component to angels?
And therefore, is there a physical component to fallen angels?
We know that angels, they're not infinite.
So, God, right?
John 4, God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship him in spirit and truth.
And the fact that God is spirit and that God does not have a body.
Now, Jesus, second member of the Godhead, he did take on flesh, he has a physical body.
But eternally speaking, before the incarnation, even now, in regards to the first and third member, the Father and the Spirit, there's no physical body.
And part of that speaks to one of the attributes, divine characteristics of God, which is his omnipresence.
David says, Where can I go from your spirit?
If I'm in the depths of Sheol or cast into the sea or wherever I am, you are.
You are because you're infinite.
God is in hell.
That's something that a lot of Christians haven't been taught.
What makes hell hell is not that it's a complete absence of God.
It's not that God is absent, but that God is present.
However, he is present, particularly in the attributes of his justice and wrath towards sin.
Hell is not hell because God's not there.
Hell is hell and so terrible because he is there.
But he's there not in his mercy or grace or love.
He's there in his justice.
And so there's no place where God is not because he's infinite.
And one attribute of being infinite is omnipresence.
And that has to do with being spirit.
But angels are not infinite.
They are created beings like you and I, different in some regard, but like you and I, they're not infinite in any regard, including omnipresence.
So an angel is not everywhere all at once.
So if they are pure spirit, we know that they still have a physical locale, that that spirit is concentrated in some way to where the alien.
Uh, not alien, the angel, which is in a sense alien, but the angel is there, uh, before God in the throne room worshiping, and then all of a sudden, with the Virgin Mary giving a message, you know, that you're going to be the mother of the Messiah, the Son of God.
And so, you know, but but there's there's locale, there's geographic, they're bound, can be contained, can be contained.
Now, all that being said, um, I biblically, I'm not aware of any, you know, clear, explicit uh scripture.
That tells me that angels don't have bodies.
Now, I know that they have some unique spiritual capacities that I think we will have in our glorified state.
For now, there's something to be said.
Hebrews says this, and ultimately, the ultimate fulfillment that's first found in the Psalms, Hebrews quotes the Psalms, its ultimate fulfillment is found in Christ.
You made him just a little lower, but it is also true of man.
Who is man that you are mindful of him or the Son of Man that you should care for?
One thing about humanity is that we are temporarily, so we will one day judge.
Angels.
And in our glorified state, I believe that we will have the capacity of angels and I think even surpass them.
But for now, you have made him a little lower than the angels.
And so I think currently, angels are, it's not like just two radically different species.
Like humans are like chihuahuas and angels are like blue whales.
No, I think you've made him a little lower than the angels, where like when there are angelic encounters in the Scripture, whether it be Joshua, you know, or whether it be like they look like men.
And I don't think it's just a hologram projection, an apparition.
I think there's something to be said that's Gabriel, and I can recognize him in this visitation.
And if I were to see him again, I'd be able to recognize him again.
There's some sort of consistency, even in not only a contained physical locale, but also a physical appearance.
Like he has a physical look, he has a countenance, he has.
So, all that being said, I think part of the reason why Christians are fascinated with aliens and/or Bigfoot or whatever is because they don't have an angelic category because they've been taught to think that angels are a very one-dimensional, simple, truncated, myopic.
They're just spirits floating on clouds.
But I would be surprised if that's what angels really are.
I think that angels are profoundly spiritual.
Profoundly spiritual.
But I do think that angels are far more fleshly and physical, ontological than we're willing to admit to the degree where a fallen angel could actually procreate with the daughters of men in Genesis 6.
I'm not of the Sethite persuasion.
Here I am.
I can do no other than Nephilim.
But you can't do Chihuahua and Blue Whale procreation, but you can do if man is a little lower.
Than the angels, and we're thinking in the same species, but simply different veins of subspecies.
You can mate two different canines.
One could be a German Shepherd and one could be a Beagle.
They are different, and one is a little lower than the other, but they're not on opposite ends of the spectrum.
There's a similarity.
And I think man and angel are more like that, German Shepherd and Beagle, than they are Chihuahua and Blue Whale.
And if that's the case, then that's not to lessen the spiritual side of the angelic at all, but it is to ramp up a little bit more the physical component of the angelic.
And that then provides a theological category for in real, tangible space and time a floating tic tac that's not just an apparition, but there is a physical thing that'll show up on heat radars and it's real.
You can touch it.
Yeah, I think what you do see with this is, and you can give me final thoughts, is that I do know there's a lot of areas in which I would like to increase my understanding.
I would like to read the.
You had Doug Van Dorn on, you really enjoyed his book, The Angel of the Lord.
I know I definitely want to freshen myself up when it comes to the understanding of angels and demons.
I think that's good understanding through the realm of scripture.
But I do think when you do, being comical for a second, when you look at the linear timeline, I think the activity of the unseen realms, particularly fallen angels, is very much reminiscent of what's depicted in a lot of the Looney Tunes, where there's a whole room full of TNT.
And all of a sudden, there's this line of a keg of just gunpowder that leads up to it.
And somehow it gets lit.
And it's going, and the angel and the person, whether it's Sylvester the cat or whoever, they're trying to like stamp it out and stamp it out and stop it, you know.
So, basically, that's what you see is there's this bloodline starting from Eve, right?
Going through, and here are all these Looney Tunes characters of fallen angels trying to like stamp it out and trying to stop it to the room full of people.
Because they know the seed of the woman is going to crush the head, which is the head, like, no, no, it's going to crush the head, stop it, stop it, stop it.
And so, everything from you know, Genesis 6 to you know, everyone always has always fascinated me too when it comes to the.
The nativity story, right?
And how it's depicted as wonderful and innocent around Christmas time.
Everyone always forgets about the carriage decree to go and like kill the firstborn.
Like, I have had one instance where I, as being a deacon, I was a first responder to someone at our congregation whose son, you know, a six month old son, had a brain aneurysm and died.
That one person, like, that grief.
Like, I'd still like to prescribe me to this day.
I can't imagine like a city full of that.
Like, what's there?
And then having to like escape, you know, and find refuge in Egypt to escape the rage of a wrathful king.
Like, there's a level of like violence that comes through, like, this visceral reaction to try and stop this from happening.
The Physical Body of Jesus00:07:07
And I think that is.
But regardless, like God is still sovereign in his ways and purposes.
And as much as they attempt to thwart it, they can't stop it.
So I think one of the areas, while many, you know, God bless them, many of many New Agers who do tend to get into come out of the New Age to Christ, they tend to go a little cage stage when it comes to dispensationalism and believing that we're in the end times, even though I've been through, I think I've been through like nine or ten days of Noah.
Yeah.
It's back.
They're going to start human hybrids and, you know, like.
Right.
But I do think that honestly, I think one of the most helpful practical ways when it comes to having like my convictions about eschatology is being able to look at all the craziness in the world and looking at this exchange of worldviews, knowing that, okay, if the nations are going to be subjugated to Christ, you know, there's a saying that says the obstacle is the way.
Well, it's going to be through the conquering of the and taking everything caught, like taking, uh, Really tearing down strongholds and taking everything in subjugation that's in contrast to Christ.
The obstacle is the way, which means all these different unbelieving worldviews that we have to confront through the power of the gospel.
So rather than being fearful of it, let's just face it and trust the Lord.
And the battle is the Lord's and all we have to do is operate in faithfulness and the spheres that God has called us to, both in self government, family government, being the best father that I can be, to be an exemplar of.
You know, of our heavenly father and to bring the hope of the gospel to a world that is facing a lot of the consequences of embracing oneism.
That's good, man.
Yeah.
I mean, Joel had my brain going in so many different directions there, talking about the beagle and the German shepherd and angel flesh and stuff.
So, man, I wish we could continue talking about that because I have so many interesting questions about that.
I know maybe we'll save that for another time.
Okay.
But that is interesting.
I'm a boring person.
I hold the Sethite view.
Oh, yeah.
That's certainly boring.
Yeah, it's certainly boring.
But I do find it interesting in thinking of the flesh.
It does say we're created from the dust of the earth.
I think that we're made of the things in which we inhabit in the cosmos.
And I don't see that with angels.
Is there a higher celestial substance that they're made of?
But a beagle and a German shepherd both come from a wolf.
And I don't see that as us being of that same substance.
Yeah, you've seen them coming from, yeah, Nihu, coming from two different places.
It would be an awesome conversation to have because you're making my brain.
I've actually been wrestling with this personally, this view going through some of the unseen realm stuff.
But Absolutely fascinating conversation.
You got my brain going.
Here's one more question for you and for the audience that you're leaving with.
So, one thing that's cool is that we have with the person and work of Jesus Christ in his earthly ministry and the story of redemption, we have his birth, his life, his death, his burial, his resurrection, and his vanishing, his ascension.
I think it is notable that when it's all said and done, Jesus doesn't just vanish.
And we know that he could because he had done that, right?
He appeared and the doors were closed.
And he just appeared after his resurrection on the first day of the week to the apostles, his disciples.
And then a week later, because Thomas wasn't there the first time again on the Lord's Day, the first day of the week, he appears.
And it's just this it is like kind of appearing and disappearing.
But then when he finally goes to be with the Father, he doesn't vanish, which would make a lot of sense because it's like you're going to heaven where God dwells.
You're going to a spiritual realm, right?
You're not going to something within the.
I mean, it couldn't be.
It couldn't possibly be that the third heaven is somewhere within the created order.
It couldn't be that you're going to a physical, literal place that we simply can't get to, but it's somewhere within the universe.
You must be going to a place that is strictly, exclusively 100% a spiritual place.
Well, then, okay, if that's the case, then vanish, disappear to get there.
But he doesn't.
And the apostles only look away because he's hidden by a cloud.
He's not hidden because he disappears.
He's physically ascending, going somewhere in time and space, and is only covered and disappears, as it were, because he's veiled by a physical cloud that hides his physical body that's still in the physical air, going somewhere.
And here's the thing like, we all, as Christians within the realm of orthodoxy, hold to he is forever the God man.
And so, before in the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God.
But at some point in human history, the Word took on flesh, and that flesh will never be taken off.
And so he is the God man.
And that flesh, just so take angels out of the equation, and you could start the questions with just the Son of God.
If you just start with Jesus, where is he?
Wherever he is, he has flesh, physical flesh that has to stand on something, sit.
He is seated at the right hand.
What does flesh sit on?
Like, I would like to think, you know, Jesus, he has a physical body.
Physical bodies, they're seated on physical thrones, and that physical throne, wherever it is, is at the right hand of God.
And so, wherever this thing is, and I know that it's getting a little wacky here at the end, it's cool.
Jesus is there, and he's physical.
So, why can't all these cherubim and seraphim and four living creatures, whatever they are, and again, it's not, certainly they're spiritual, and we can't even comprehend that spiritual element.
But to say that they're spiritual at the cost of Of being physical.
I don't know if that's required.
Theologically, I don't know if to heighten the spiritual side of the angelic requires a diminishing of the physical side.
And because it certainly doesn't with Jesus.
Jesus right now has flesh, a physical body, and physical bodies exist in physical places.
He is somewhere in some physical plane, whether it's in this universe or out of this universe, but it is wherever it is, it is not merely an ethereal spiritual plane because Jesus is.
Has a body, a physical body that must exist in time and space.
So he is in a physical place, but that physical place we also know is the throne room of God at the right hand of God.
And we know that angels are there too, surrounding the throne of God, worshiping.
And so if Jesus can be there with a physical body, it must be some kind of physical place.
And that doesn't necessitate, right?
So that doesn't require that angels have a physical component, but I think that at least allows that they could have a physical component.
Tuning Into the Grace Series00:02:24
I want to.
Oh, man.
I agree with you.
110% because it says even the highest heavens can't contain God, meaning that it must be of some type of created order.
The question would be is it of the same substance as humans?
Yes.
So that's the question.
I didn't say either.
Do they mix?
That's the question in terms of the Nephilim being sons of God.
And that's a fair question.
And the answer is yes.
I love it.
Thanks for tuning in.
It's 615.
It's 64.
All right.
Thank you guys so much.
Good questions.
And man, this might be our best episode.
It's a good one.
This is a fun one.
This is a banger.
So, check out, tell them one more time.
Can they check out the 10 part series that you guys got?
So, thecultishhow.com, Alien Revelations, click on that or any of your favorite podcast catcher.
Colin Samuel did it.
He's actually working on season two right now.
Yeah.
I don't know if it's going to be on Cultish or not.
We haven't talked to him really about it.
Yeah, we'll figure it out.
We'll figure it out, but check it out, please.
It's so wonderful.
Awesome.
And then, this, what you're listening to right now, is just one episode also of a 10 part series.
No, you know, it's a coincidence that they happen to be the same.
But this is a 10 part series also.
And it's not 10 parts all on aliens, but on a multitude.
You know, a variety of topics.
We're talking about DMT, one whole episode on DMT in the astral realm, a whole episode on the divine feminine and Taylor Swift, a whole episode on the occult, and a whole episode on neo paganism.
So, this is the episode on the grace, the episode on all things alien and ufology and that kind of stuff.
But the 10 part series that all, you know, with a theological side, it all deals with each other.
So, feel free to check out the other episodes, and we're releasing them one week at a time on Fridays at 4 p.m.
Some of the later episodes may not, by the time you're listening to this, have been released yet.
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