The Friday Special - The Occult w Cultish defines occultism as secret esoteric beliefs rooted in Hermeticism, an ancient syncretic blend from AD 100–300 teaching humans share God's substance. Speakers argue modern practices like Wicca and yoga promote a "oneism" philosophy where individuals become their own gods, blurring divine and material distinctions to erase gender binaries. This circular logic fails to account for unique personhood or trauma, contrasting sharply with the Christian gospel which offers redemption through relationship with the triune God rather than impersonal enlightenment. Ultimately, the episode concludes that true fulfillment lies in eternal communion with God, not self-sacrifice. [Automatically generated summary]
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Roots of Modern Occultism00:13:29
The term occult refers to knowledge or practices that are far beyond the realm of ordinary understanding.
The word itself comes from the Latin word occultus, which means hidden or secret.
In a broad sense, the occult encompasses various esoteric beliefs, practices, and phenomena that typically involve spiritual, mystical, or supernatural elements.
This can include practices such as divination, astrology, alchemy, ceremonial magic, terror reading, and ritualistic practices aimed at accessing mystical forces and hidden knowledge.
The occult has been a part of human culture and belief systems for millennia, appearing in various forms across different cultures and historical periods, but it is always associated with mystery, mysticism, and secrecy.
While some people are under the illusion that the occult is purely speculative or harmless entertainment, many others are perfectly aware of the occult's demonic power, and they are seeking to harness this power in order to bring about a very dark and sinister end.
All right.
Here we are.
This is episode six now, talking about the occult.
I don't know.
What are some of the modern expressions?
It seems like it's on the rise.
It is.
It is.
And I think one of the things, Andrew's got some stuff he's going to break down as far as the origins of it and some integral pieces of it.
But if you look at the zoom out big picture, is the occultism.
Just to paraphrase in a previous episode, what Gary North says that the rise of occultism.
Occultism usually marks the peaks at the very end of a civilization.
Right.
And so, what you are seeing right now is because occultism, in many ways, is very syncretistic.
It always blends in not only different philosophies, but it also blends in with a culture and it emulates the culture around it.
One of the ways you'd see, usually, if you go to a bookstore, usually there's a back section somewhere in the corner where you'd have some of those.
Weird fringe books, but now if you go to uh Barnes and Noble or any of those other uh major bookstores, now you'll walk into the front door and you see books.
I think I did a video even on our Instagram a while back where I walked in and there was a whole set of books on spellcasting, on alchemy, a lot of things that Andrew said in his introduction, uh, witchcraft and Wicca, um, astrology, and something that this is just right there, right in front of you.
So I think.
You see that like in one way, for example, to you know, right around October, there's always that question of people who are arguing about, uh, you know, whether or not Christians should participate in Halloween.
And what one thing that is noticeable, and I've seen it just in the last 10 years, it's gone from going to a spirit Halloween or other places around October where it's just, hey, here are some cool costume ideas, here's the movies that were trending, and here's some you know, cute Avengers and stuff like that.
But now, I think, in the last five to 10 years, you're seeing notably a lot of occultic items, a lot of occultic materials where normally like 10 years ago, that was not the case even around Halloween.
The last one out, there are tons of Ouija boards and tarot cards and just a lot more.
It's just a carnival of occultism.
So you're really seeing that in the culture.
So it's just indicative of where we are, where as a whole, we have rejected God's law as far as how to govern.
We're inherently spiritual.
So atheism has really come.
Kind of come and gone.
You know, Richard Doggins did his best.
As we mentioned before, he's now a cultural Christian.
And so people are inherently spiritual, but they still want to be their own God.
So I think that's the perfect place where people like to land.
And you see that carried out.
I think that's just some of the appeal when it comes to the rise of the occult in our day and age.
Yeah.
So when thinking of occultism, we can also think biblically in the form of like divination, right?
People who seek to get yes or no answers from another person.
Realm, using tools or objects like writing, ceremonial daggers, people who think that maybe there's treasure underground, right?
Or even dowsing hidden water that could be found with a rod.
So, using specific types of instruments to bridge this gap between what is known and what is unknown.
So, the question when we think about the occult is we should go, well, where did this modern form that we're seeing today come from?
We said things like alchemy, tarot card reading.
Astrology.
These things didn't just come out of nowhere, right?
They didn't appear in a vacuum.
This is a very old school of thought that's been around for quite some time.
And we're going to get into that.
Doing some research when I was doing the origins of Mormonism, I came across something called Hermeticism.
And many people don't realize nowadays, but modern forms of Wicca, the rites and rituals and incantations that they do, other forms of folk magic, they all basically come from Hermeticism.
If you've heard of Rosicrucianism, Or the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, or even aspects of Freemasonry in terms of the presuppositions to what they fundamentally believe.
All of these things come from Hermeticism.
So let me give you a basic understanding of Hermeticism.
We'll get into some of the origins, but a basic understanding is like alchemy, okay?
Hermeticism gave birth to alchemy, all right?
It did.
Hermeticism believes that humans are of the same substance as God, okay?
It teaches that.
When you do certain rites and rituals, you can become that perfect self or form of God.
So, various ceremonies, rites, and rituals.
They also believe the same thing with a stone.
Okay.
The stone, just a rock, is of the same substance as gold, but through certain rites and rituals, that stone can become gold.
So, that's a very basic presupposition.
But where did these thoughts come from?
That's what we should ask ourselves.
So, Hermeticism is essentially a blending of Egyptian.
Magic or philosophy with Greek philosophy.
It really started its development during the Ptolemaic period of the Egyptian dynasty, which is when Alexander the Great conquered Egypt.
So we had Greek thought also invading Egyptian thought.
And what is believed about the Corpus Hermeticum, because it's a book of writings, I believe it's 42 to 43 different texts, is that it's written by someone called Hermes Tresmagustus, which means the thrice holy Hermes.
But the literature in and of itself is a pseudepigrapha.
No one knows who wrote it.
So it's attributed to this person.
But if you noticed, I said Hermes, right?
Was Hermes real or was Hermes just a Greek god?
Plato, I think, had five different theories of who Hermes could be.
But essentially, this Hermes Tresmagustus was a blending of the Egyptian god Thoth and Hermes.
So what happened was this corpus Hermeticum, this body of writings, actually didn't start becoming developed.
Until at least what we have historical evidence for from AD 100 to AD 300.
Okay.
So even during early Gnosticism, Hermeticism was also around.
Clement of Alexandria in the third century actually wrote in the Stromata Book Six about the Corpus Hermeticum.
This is an early church father, right?
And I'll quote he says from chapter four of Stromata Book Six, he says, There are then 42 books of Hermes, indispensably necessary, of which the six and 30 containing the whole philosophy of the Egyptians are learned by the forementioned personages.
And the other six, which are medical, by the Pastaforoi, treating of the structure of the body and of diseases and instruments and medicines about the eyes, and the last about women, such are the customs of the Egyptians, to speak briefly.
That's what he says.
So, even within this body of the Corpus Hermeticum, we also do find medical things.
So, this was a Greek body of writings from around that time.
And not only did it contain things about medicine, but there were, I believe, 17 different writings, which are Actually, the most popular today, which we get many forms of occultism from, which is called the Philosophical Hermetica.
And the philosophical Hermetica is what details the origin of creation, what details alchemy, astrology, and certain rites and rituals.
So many modern forms of occult practices come from this.
But the question is how did we get it today?
Well, it wasn't translated from Greek into Latin until around, I believe it's the 16th century, the first translation, because these Greek texts were found.
were during the Renaissance period.
And what do we find even in the Renaissance period?
People started forging science with magical practices.
But what's interesting about the Hermetic tradition really is that this blending of the sciences along with searching for alchemy also gave birth to some modern forms of medicine that we even have today.
I mean, it's just the reality.
Like Isaac Newton was a known alchemist who practiced things from the philosophical Hermetica.
So it's interesting things.
Anyways, but the people who translated these Greek texts into Latin was Marcillo Ficino.
I cannot even pronounce her names right.
I don't even know.
I don't speak.
I'm not from that era, right?
Lodoviccio Lazarelli.
You're syncretizing to the best of your life.
I'm syncretizing to the best I can.
But in a nutshell, Hermeticism is perennial in nature, right?
Different paths can lead to God, but certain rites and rituals can.
Make that happen faster.
And so it's not unlike Gnosticism, but it's different in the terms that there can be actual devices that can connect you to this other realm.
So it's ancient, but it's also an ancient heresy, which I don't think gets talked about enough.
Like when we think about ancient heresies that plagued the early church, we think of Gnosticism, right?
Docetism, which is because it was extremely popular, but this was also extremely popular, but it just didn't pop back up into history.
Until around the 15th, 16th century.
And then from there, man, it took off like a wildfire.
Like those people, those great thinkers of the Renaissance, many of them practiced things from the Hermetic tradition.
And that's what we're seeing actually influence our society today.
So, modern forms of Wicca, for example, with like earth, water, wind, fire, and the four elements, where does that come from?
It comes from the philosophical Hermetica.
The phrase, have you ever heard of this, Joel?
As above, so below.
Yeah.
That's from.
The philosophical Hermetica.
So, in terms of occult ritual magic, astrology, alchemy, all of these things are based from this body of literature and text.
Real quick, before we continue with the show, I wanted to let you know that this is actually just one episode of a 10 part series that we will be slowly releasing to the public on places like YouTube and your favorite podcast platform over the coming months.
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Aslan's Country and Narnia00:04:44
As above, so below.
Isn't that like Aristotle?
And I'm thinking of like forms.
I guess that would be more Plato, but this idea of like everything that we have is.
Not really true in and of itself, but it's only as true as it is, insofar as it accurately represents the true form that is somewhere else.
Is that, you know, that saying as above, so below, would that fall into like a Platonic, you know, or Aristotelian kind of thought?
Yeah, I see what you're saying.
Thought.
I think that probably definitely has influence to it.
So since Plato and Aristotle would predate.
The writings of the Philosophical Hermetica, I would definitely think that they have some form of influence.
So, thinking about like.
Because even C.S. Lewis, like, I don't know if you guys remember this, but remember in the Narnia series, his last book, The Last Battle, when it's all finally said and done, this door into the stable where Puzzle the Donkey had been pretending to be Aslan with the lion coat that he was wearing.
And then Tash takes up.
Quarters, you know, in there.
And then Aslan finally appears and defeats Tash.
And then the door into that stable, you know, it expands and it becomes like this gateway into Aslan's country.
And so everyone is, you know, brought through, corralled through this door into Aslan's country.
And all those who were bad are, you know, Kellermans and, you know, are kind of sent off into Aslan's shadow, you know, with this terrified, forlorn, you know, Countenance on their face.
And all, you know, the Narnians who are true and loyal are, you know, welcomed into Aslan's country into this place of pleasure and bliss and peace and joy.
And then, you know, they're standing and looking back into Narnia, the world that they left.
And, you know, it ends up, you know, freezing over.
The dragons come out from the depths and eat up all the greenery and all the life.
And then this giant awakes, you know, and grabs the sun and squeezes out, you know, its final bits of life.
Everything freezes over and it's done, you know.
But then they're like, okay, there's a sense of mourning.
They're happy because they're with Aslan and they're in Aslan's country, you know, this, you know, symbol of heaven.
But they still have a sense of grief and mourning because they love Narnia, you know, and even though it was imperfect, it was home.
And it's sad to see Narnia done and over.
But now they're beginning to explore Aslan's country.
And I think it's Philip the Horse.
Or it might have been one of the centaurs that, as they're going in and exploring, you know, they're in the classic line further up and further in, further up and further in.
They're running and they don't grow weary, you know, and they can actually like swim up a waterfall, you know, and they're further up and further in.
And then the great revelation that they have that brings them so much joy is they realize not only are we in Aslan's country and in Aslan's presence, Aslan himself, but Aslan's country is Narnia.
They start to look and they say, there's Care Paravel, you know, and there's this and there's that, you know, and all these different things that they recognize.
And like, this is, it's not just another place besides Narnia that's wonderful, but it's another place that is wonderful, but it's actually the true Narnia.
And one of them says, I think it's Philip, again, the talking horse, but He says, it's all in Plato.
It's all in Plato.
And, you know, and that's one of the few times, you know, I'm a big C.S. Lewis fan, but that's one of the few times where he loses me.
So, because here's my final point it's because, in a sense, what that says is that the Narnia, where all of redemptive history has taken place, where Aslan gave himself and his life on the stone table, you know, to appease not the witch, the white witch, but ultimately the deep magic that, you know, that.
Appeasing his own law words, you know, and fulfilling that to save Edmund and all this beautiful gospel story that plays out.
It basically says that the story is still real, but the place and that it wasn't.
That it's when he says, you know, Philip, I believe it's the talking horse, it's all in Plato.
What he's ultimately saying is that that Narnia that just, you know, 15 seconds ago we were mourning as we saw its final.
Real vs Imagined Reality00:12:08
Destruction and demise.
We really don't need to mourn that any longer because it wasn't ever real.
It was just a facade, a shape of the true form, a true Narnia.
And this is the real Narnia.
That was never the real Narnia.
This is the real Narnia.
You know, the classic thing you got a statue of Plato and then Aristotle, and Plato's pointing up.
Right.
You know, and Aristotle's pointing down.
And in that sense, I am more of the.
Aristotelian persuasion that I don't think, even in the scripture where it says that all creation groans with eager expectations for the sons of God to be revealed, I would strongly disagree with the kind of Westminster escondido form of Westminster, that the radical two kingdom position was they would actually interpret that.
Van Druden, other guys, Michael Horton, they would actually interpret that passage of scripture to say that the creation rocks.
And trees and mountains and rivers are groaning with eager expectations for the sons of God to be revealed because, in the revealing of the sons of God and the culmination of history, the creation will then finally, that is groaning under the curse of sin, will finally receive from the Lord a mercy killing that God will take the creation out back behind the woodshed and put her down.
I don't believe that.
I don't believe that that's biblical.
I believe that they're groaning.
The creation is groaning with eager expectations because, in the revealing of the sons of God, The creation will be restored.
Proper dominion.
Yeah, that the creation matters, that it's good.
It's under a curse, but it's going to be restored.
And so, in this final eschaton, the new heavens and the new earth, when we say the new earth, we're not speaking of another earth.
We're speaking of actually this rock in space being made new and heaven, the new heavens coming to the new earth, so that as we are being redeemed, so are rocks and rivers and trees, and that our final state.
There'll be this interim period where we are, our souls are in heaven as we wait for the final culmination of history and the physical final return of Christ.
But when that occurs, our final state will be an embodied state with our bodies, not another body, but this body put back together by Jesus and glorified.
And heaven will not just be floating on the clouds in a 17th dimension, but it will actually be this planet.
And I think we'll be able to look around and say, there's the Himalayas, but glorified.
And the same way that I'll be able to look at it, that's Andrew.
I know him, but glorified.
I've never known him like this.
But I know him, I can still recognize him.
He's not utterly different.
And I think that it'll be similar for the creation that that's not just the story of the doctrine of glorification for the saints, but that doctrine of glorification applies to mountains and rivers and trees.
And so, all that being said, my point is yeah, I think that's where guys like Plato, I struggle with because at some level, it basically said, a circle isn't even real.
It just.
Contains it's a good circle insofar as it contains the true circle-ness of the one true circle that exists somewhere else in another dimension that's a real circle.
And all these are fake circles, and they're either good fakes or bad fakes.
I, yeah, yeah, yeah.
When I'm thinking about does that apply to the hermetic tradition, hermetic philosophical?
Would they be so?
My question is, would they be of the Plato sentiment, kind of that?
Yeah, none of it's really real, and that's why you can just a rock, yeah, sure.
Why can't it be gold?
Because it's not, reality is not a thing.
Yeah, I think what it is is what is as above, so below is more mind over matter in a sense.
So, because the matter is not real.
So, yeah, right.
There's one that supersedes the other.
But thinking about what you're talking about, I love it because, you know, Jesus, when the first thing he does is what?
He tends to a garden after the resurrection.
They think he's a gardener.
Yeah, right?
He's not making all things new, not making all new things.
So, I agree with you 110%.
But with regard to this hermetic tradition, Tradition here, what we can find, I think, is actually a bastardization of Plato and Aristotle, right?
So, with Aristotle, we have the materials of the earth, right?
Like a scientific logical thinking.
With Plato, we have logic in forms of ideals, like you talked about the circle.
So, we have that ideal circle that exists transcendent outside of us, but we can't reproduce that perfect circle on earth.
No one can make a perfect circle.
God can make a perfect circle.
But, anyways, in forms of the Hermetic tradition, what they would say is, well, let's use the objects of the earth, like Aristotle, in order to try to bring the ideal here, right?
So, let me get into some of the beliefs of the Hermetic tradition in terms of the creation account.
I'm going to tell you guys some things, and I think it's going to make you think about some stuff because you're going to notice the era in which this philosophy was developed.
And you're going to go, I see now how this is like a Christian heresy because they have to deal with Jesus, right?
Remember, these writings are from the second to third century.
So, actually, you're about to get into it because of the rock and gold, like water and wine kind of.
Oh, interesting.
Seems like a similar.
So, listen to this.
So, from the Corpus Hermeticum, from their creation account, is this, okay?
In the first book, God, by his own will, creates primary matter, which is what the cosmos is made from.
From that matter, God separates the primary elements into four groups earth, air, fire, water.
Probably making you even think of Wicca, right?
I don't know if you ever saw the movie The Craft.
It makes me, and I'm going to embarrass myself, but it makes me think of Avatar.
Oh, okay.
Water, wind.
Fire.
Yeah, that makes me think of Captain Planning.
Captain Planning.
Oh, man.
Heart.
Yeah, you need heart there.
But that shows a show that environmentalism even is like based on this.
Oh, dude.
This.
So, dude, yeah.
Absolutely.
So, listen, God then orders these elements into the seven heavens.
The seven heavens are to be the spheres of Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Sun, and the Moon, which travel in circles and govern our destiny.
Astrology, right?
But then, listen to this the word logos, it's from Greek, the logos leaps forth from the materializing elements and then makes the heavens spin.
And from them, creatures without speech spring forth.
The earth is then separated from water and animals are brought forth.
So, what do you hear there, right?
The Logos is leaping forth from creation.
Right.
Yeah.
So, they have to deal with Jesus somehow, right?
So, what does John say?
The Logos became flesh, but that Logos was proston theon in John chapter one.
He was face to face with the Father, and he has been with the Father from all eternity past.
Right.
In the beginning was the Word.
Yeah.
The Word doesn't have any beginning.
Exactly.
In the beginning was the Word.
Yeah.
And what I noticed, Andrew, too, is as you're commentating on this, and this is brand new for a lot of your audience here, it may be.
But if you look at it in simplistic terms, one versus two, one ism versus two, and all the presuppositions within Hermeticism, everything you're talking about, they are presumptions that there is a blending of there's no distinction between the material and the immaterial.
There's no distinction between what is divine and what is not divine.
So you do see that one ism really integrated without.
And one last thing I'll say before you jump back to this is that while many, even today, Will be practicing hermeticism, and we've even you know had people on our podcast who were involved in the hermetic order of the golden dawn.
Um, is that they are embracing modernity, they think they're embracing something that's brand new, bending the materials to their will, when in reality, there's nothing new under the sun.
In fact, I was just pulled this up.
I'm glad you have a couple Bibles here, it's kind of nice.
It's got it looks this is nice for Stephen pulling it up on my phone, but um, in Colossians chapter two, you notice this is what Paul is dealing with first century.
In the first century with Christians in a very pagan city in Colossians, like this is an internal burning man, like a 24 7 burning man on steroids.
But this is what he says in Colossians 2, verse 8.
He says, See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.
And he counteracts that by explaining that Christ is deity in bodily form, for in him, The fullness of deity dwells bodily, and you have been filled in him who is the head of all authority.
And so he makes this point of talking about the distinctiveness of Christ, that the fullness of deity lies in bodily form, and that the way to understand paganism, the way to revert and to avoid it, you have to view everything through the lens of the incarnation.
Because Gnosticism denies the reality of the flesh, it always makes this emphasis on the spirit.
The flesh is bad, the spirit is good.
But when you view the world through the lens of the incarnation, you can get full of credence to the material and the immaterial.
And once you become familiar with that, whether it's hermeticism or anything as we've talked in our podcast, it'll stick out like a sore thumb.
The same way in which people who study, who detect counterfeit bills, they detect it by a way of just handling authentic currency for weeks upon end.
So the moment a counterfeit bill goes through their fingers, like they don't even have to look.
They know what the ink pressing feels like.
They know if something is slightly off with the paper, the amount of, like I said, the ink that's in it.
And so, in many ways, I would encourage our audience that you don't necessarily have to become an expert in all these different branches of occultism.
You don't need to read all these mystical books.
Like, become understand who the working person of Jesus Christ is, and you'll never be fooled by anyone.
You'll know how to answer that because what you end up seeing is that everyone has to have Jesus on their team.
Even as you see here, they're trying to define the Logos in a way that's completely antithetical to how he's self revealed.
So, that's something to really think as we continue to unpack this.
Yeah, yeah.
So, what's really important about this, too, is what I'm talking about from the Corpus Hermeticum is actually giving fingerprints to when it was also written, right?
So, claims that this is some ancient Egyptian magic blended with Greek thought, which could be true to a sense, but the fingerprints are they're having to deal with the Logos, right?
I know the Logos is part of Greek philosophy, but in terms of when this was written and the Logos being a form of a creator God, according to the Corpus Hermeticum, it's a fingerprint that this is actually after Christ.
Right, in terms of when it was written, because they're having to deal with number one, the creation account according to Moses from God, and now Jesus being part of that creation account.
So, then in the created order, it says, according to the Corpus Hermeticum, that God then created androgynous man, man without sex, okay, in God's own image and handed them over to the creation.
So, this is what it says, and I'll quote from the Corpus Hermeticum in an English translation here it says, Man carefully observed the creation and received from God man's authority.
Overall creation, man then rose up above the spheres, right?
The planets' paths in order to better view creation.
He then showed the form of the all to nature.
Nature fell in love with the all, and man, seeing his reflection in water, fell in love with nature and wished to dwell in it.
Immediately, man became one with nature and became a slave to its limitations, such as sex and sleep.
The Oppressive Gender Binary00:03:10
So, gender is a sin, right?
Gender enslaves you to nature.
In this way, man became speechless, having lost.
The word, the logos, and he became double, being mortal in body, yet immortal in spirit, and having authority over all creation, yet subject to its destiny.
Do you hear the Gnosticism?
So, falling in love with the creation as man gives you sex as sin.
And it also makes it to where when you have a mortal body, you're separate from this immortal truth.
So, when I'm reading this, this is ancient, right?
This is what do we see today, though?
LGBT.
LGBT.
I'm not going to be confined to the prison of a binary system.
I'm going to transcend beyond that.
Like this, only the system that says, insists that there are only two genders is oppressive and imprisoning and limiting.
It's not blessing.
It's not good design.
It's not original purpose.
It's a human construct and a constraint and an oppressive system.
And I'm going to actualize my true identity and potential.
By transcending above it.
And what does that mean?
For many, it means I'm gay, I'm lesbian.
But we're already starting to, because it doesn't stop there.
And we're already starting to realize that the higher forms, and it's not worded that way, but that is kind of the connotation is like, oh, you're just gay?
That was so 2006.
Oh, you're just lesbian?
What a normie.
I'm non binary.
you know, or I'm, you know, X, Y, and Z, you know, and it's already within the LGBTQ framework.
It does appear as though there's a ladder of, you know, of different levels.
And the higher levels are not just, I'm male, but attracted to other men, or I'm female, but attracted to other women.
Because that's still, you know, the L and the G still rely on, you know, the system of two genders, you know.
But it seems like the higher forms, the higher levels of enlightenment within the LGBTQ, you know, madness is, Transcend beyond just same sex attraction, but actually throw the whole concept of sex out the window entirely and are something other, you know.
And I've always said this for years.
I said, you know, because people would talk about, man, now, you know, there used to be two genders and then there's, you know, 30 and then there's 50 and then there's 80 and then there's 134.
And then, and I, from the very beginning, you know, it's just God's grace and giving me some discernment.
But I realized that the end goal, what's the end goal?
The end goal is not, um, It is not to get to 500 or 5,000 or a billion genders.
The end goal is to eradicate gender altogether.
Beyond Two to Oneism00:02:45
But it's easier to go from two to three than to go from two to one.
Like it's easier to go two, you know, if you're thinking about how to, for that to actually be palatable and an achievable goal within a society where there's still, you know, a decent amount of common sense.
I mean, people are going to be like, that's ridiculous.
Of course, you know, of course there's not just one, you know, non-gender.
Conforming gender, you know, there are two, so it's easier to go from two to three and then to five and then to 12 and then to 30 and then to eight than to go from two to one.
Um, but what they're trying to get to is it's back to the one and two.
Um, they're trying to get to oneism, um, applied to you know the topic of gender.
Um, but the way to go from the transition from twoism to oneism as it pertains to gender that is such a radical, uh, uh, radical.
Change shift, it's easier to go from two all the way up to thousands first, and then it just blends into right response ministries 2025 conference.
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Well, you have to go back to zero logically within oneism because ultimately you can't give an accounting for distinctions, right?
Uh, so you have that, and again, yeah, that's yeah, and that's my point that the one really translates to zero, none, yeah, one is none.
Yeah.
And one last thing before I jump back, I'm gonna have you jump back in, Andrew, is that again, just in very simplistic terms, what you always see is that you have, you turn everything on its head when it comes to the created order.
Everything becomes inverted.
Divine Sparks and Sinful Nature00:15:40
Instead of giving correct worship and adoration to the creator, who is the father on which every family under heaven and earth are named, it's now adoration and worship of the divine feminine.
So the created order is reversed.
You see the men act shamefully of men, the women act shamefully with women.
And the men change their roles.
The men become women and the women become men.
Like you see that throughout paganism.
And again, what happens when the creation is worshipped is animism, it's worshiping reptiles and beasts and created things.
But again, it's not just a worship exchange, it is a sexual exchange because while neutrality is a myth, we have to always inherently worship with our bodies.
And while many, even now, within the, you know, it changes every other day with whether, you know, you're.
LGBTQ plus trans Jenga, you name it.
Say trans Jenga?
Yeah.
That's what it is.
It all comes crashing down eventually.
Yeah, because I just will not give credence to that.
I'd say Jenga instead of gender, and I'm not going to apologize for that.
That's funny.
But the reality is that they're embracing modernity, and they think that this is something brand new.
Any purple haired they them are thinking that this is something that's brand new, that's revolutionary.
We're the first generation to discover this, when in reality, There's nothing new under the sun.
Like everything you're saying with the Hermetic Order, as soon as you see it, like there's the blurring of gender there.
And this is from hundreds of years ago.
Yeah.
So the way I kind of want to think about it in this discussion today is so within the 16th century, we're finding this rebirth of the occult.
Okay.
Of course, there's medieval witchcraft and stuff like that, but that bleeds out from earlier views of the Corpus Hermeticum.
I mean, even Clement of Alexandria was talking about this as an early church father.
But when we think of occult practice today, it goes from early folk magic.
Right, like of Joseph Smith and treasure digging, dowsing, all of that comes from practices from the corpus hermeticum, even astrology, to its fullest form of the occult, which is no longer using materials and objects from the earth, but self sacrificing your own body.
Right.
And that's what we're finding today.
So we have people, like you've mentioned already, this androgynous quote unquote culture that is actually practicing the occult with their own body.
Like that's the reality because inside of themselves is this spark of the man.
The image of the divine spark, the divine.
Um, yes, people practice tarot cards, people practice astrology, but what does it lead to?
It leads to self sacrifice, right?
In order to be them true, their true selves, whatever the heck that means.
But like you said in Romans 1, it talks about the fullness of their revelation, which is they are sexually immoral, they heartily approve of wickedness, and they're inventors of evil.
So, the end of the destruction of society, I'd say, at least coming from the 16th century, the Renaissance thinkers, the Enlightenments.
To the first great awakening, which is wonderful and amazing, a gift from God, right, to preserve society with Jonathan Edwards and George Whitefield, to post enlightenment, to the second great awakening, to the influence of the occult into the Americas coming from Europe, because this is where the Corpus Romanticum was translated, to early practicing of this magic, to now actually using our bodies as the main source of occultic revelation for the individuals that live in this country.
So that's like, The progression of destruction in society, and so we can see that through Romans 1 is happening exactly today.
So it absolutely blows my mind.
We just skip the nonsense now.
We skip all of the magic because that's silly.
Let's just sacrifice our bodies.
Right.
And this is what's difficult is that, and this is why the word the gospel comes in is because every person that I've talked with and engaged with through the last five or six years we've been doing this podcast with people who are new agers when they come out of it is that there is this initial appearance, this excitement of this, you know, I need, I'm going to find this new secret and esoteric knowledge, but it is very much, you have almost, you call it spiritual, it's a spiritual narcotic.
Yep.
You continue, it's not just to not, you always have to continually define the next thing.
So, one person will get into the new age or the occult by way of tarot card reading, or like I said, you'll, so there'll be somebody who will have a health problem and then they start, you know, doing yoga and yoga will lead to, you know, transcendental meditation.
Now, I have to do tarot card readings and then I'll have to do this and that.
And you'll see this continual escalation of the different practices and rituals, but there's always, you always end up back at you because ultimately you're, They don't realize at the time that they are just a sinful and broken person.
You're trying to be told that within you is a spark of the divine, but we know what scripture self attests to us is that we are sinners, we are lost, we are in need of a savior, we've broken God's law, our conscience bears witness of it, and we suppress the truth and unrighteousness.
And you, in the same way as the imagery in Pilgrim's Progress, they have as Christian prior to coming to Calvary. had this burden on his back.
And he went to many different practitioners to remove that burden.
And so what I want to do is just, this is the point of reference and why this, when you have somebody who comes into the new age, they're very broken people.
They will put on a facade of arrogance as a shield, but internally they are broken and they know that they need a savior because their ultimate point of reference is themselves.
And so I want to just, I want to read, this is actually a quote. from a book called Second Coming of the New Age by Stephen Bancars.
It's a great apologetic resource.
I would definitely recommend those who want to get an understanding of how to reach those who are in the New Age.
It's really a great book I'd recommend.
But this is a quote from the book.
It says, If you are your own God, you are as good as it gets for you.
No one can help you spiritually because no one is your God.
Only you are.
Your limited experience on earth is all you have to guide you through the mysteries of the universe, death, and beyond.
You have to figure out how to provide your own afterlife without even knowing what happens after you die.
Choosing to be your own God means you are worshiping a being who cannot create anything new, cannot save you from death, cannot provide you any of the answers you already know, cannot tell you what will happen for you, and cannot provide a divine meaning or plan for your life, and cannot understand anything about the reality outside of a human perspective.
In fact, if you are your own God, then your God cares so little for you.
That he or she believes you deserve nothing better than to be worshipped a flawed and finite god who will die someday and cannot offer any firsthand perspective on life after death.
That is that's what the new age offers, right?
That's why it's a spiritual narcotic.
That's why you have, you know, this whole plethora.
I made a meme one time where it's this guy who jumps on this water slide and he catapults this way and as he's I.
I did this meme where it's like hey, this is yoga, tarot cards meditation, all this burning man, all the way down this, all the way down.
Now i'm going to go into a Ascend, into 5D consciousness.
Now I'm going to crash and burn.
And the guy belly flops at the end.
And a bunch of former New Agers, when I made this meme a couple of years ago, they're laughing because they're saying, Oh my goodness, this is so true.
This is what I was trying to do and trying to find my identity and the latest astrology chart, or finding out that I'm a Pisces or I'm an Aries, or I'm trying to, I've done another DMT trip.
I've gone through, look, Aaron Rodgers, he did this, some sort of ritual where it's like, Hey, I spent.
Like three days in darkness, totally isolated with my own thoughts to try and find stillness and oneness.
And it's like, well, that didn't work because now he's trying like a new thing.
And there's like no end in sight for these people.
And that's why when you see somebody, I love talking to brand new new agers.
They're like totally cage staged and freaking out, but they're like, oh my gosh, like this is, you know, they realize that just the treasure that they have in Christ, like you see what happens when it's, Talks about, like Paul makes that indicative in Colossians, where he says, In Christ are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
And it's an apologetic refutation of classic Gnosticism and paganism, because what does that ultimately articulate?
Whether it's astrology, whether it's the Masonic Lodge, or whether it's the Hermetic or the Golden Dawn, or whatever it is, it always depicts that I have secret, hidden, esoteric knowledge that gives myself true meaning and value.
where Paul says, no, he actually used that language.
It's hidden.
All of the treasures of wisdom and knowledge is hidden not in some impersonal esoteric divine spark.
It's within the eternal God, the God-man Jesus Christ, in the person of Jesus Christ, the second person of the Trinity that you were created, not just to have your sins forgiven, where you could have a clear conscience, but you can actually now be in worship and fellowship with him.
And when new, it's really unique, though, that like, it's such a such a stark contrast because it's all the hit.
So, you think there are hidden treasures in somehow achieving a state of enlightenment that would come through this tarot chart, or it would come through the stars, or it would come through this esoteric, whatever, chant, or that, you know.
But so much of it is impersonal.
So, you think you're going to achieve this state of understanding and comprehension and secret knowledge through an impersonal channel, but it actually comes through a person.
And you think that the physical is the problem.
But it doesn't just come through a personal God, but it comes through the personal God man who is embodied in flesh.
So at every level, it's this complete opposite contrast.
You think it'll be impersonal.
It's a person.
His name is Jesus.
You think it'll be exclusively spiritual with a complete rejection of the created physical world.
It's not only God, it's the God man.
Who's embodied in flesh.
You think, so like at every level, there's just this, like, you know, Paul is saying it's the opposite of what, you know, knowledge is not, it's found in the opposite source of what you've been looking for.
But I love how, like, Paul's gospel turn, if we could call it that, is not, there is no such thing as secret knowledge.
That's not his point.
His point is, you know, it's kind of cool that he gives, he tips the hat, he gives credence to the new age, you know, occult, you know, Gnostic mindset and saying that, no, there is secret knowledge and not just about a few things, but all things.
But you're looking in the wrong place.
Right.
Yeah.
Walter Martin would always utilize the nature of his audience and he would depict the gospel in a particular way.
In fact, there's one time where he's giving this, I think he was talking about Buddhism and specifically like Hare Krishna's.
And those elements, and a couple other groups that would kind of fall in that category.
But he referred to salvation and a relationship with Christ as the ultimate trip of the human soul that a human soul can take.
And I was like, ah, he just had a way of articulating, you know, what in someone's native tongue, just what the beauty of the gospel is in contrast to the spiritual counterfeit that is offered.
And so I think that's the area that, you know, I guess the takeaway here is to know that.
This is what people are hunger and longing for, and to bring that gospel out there because there are so many people that are flooding into the new age and the occult in droves, thinking they can find some sort of secret, esoteric, hidden knowledge because we have a God Jesus shaped whole.
But they can't feel it because, again, philosophically, when you talk about one versus two, the goal in all of these is to take this esoteric, hidden knowledge to unlock the divine spark within and to be able to transcend.
And to be able to ascend.
But the problem is within oneism, because it's circular, there's no distinction.
There's nowhere to go because wherever you go, you are still within the one.
So you always start back at square one.
So the whole thing is in you and you're in everything else.
And I can transcend from here to there, but that doesn't represent any improvement.
Right.
Because if I can transcend to this mountaintop or this higher plane or whatever, but it's.
We've already established it's a giant contradiction because we've already established that that is in me and I am in that.
And so, wherever you go, you really haven't gone anywhere at all.
You know, it's right.
And even like, for example, many there is no transcending in a one plane singularity, right?
And I'll just say one last thing is that many new ages, for example, that you know, many of them come from they're very like emotionally sensitive people many times, and a lot of them like have very difficult, traumatic.
you know, childhoods, backgrounds, upbringing.
And so the whole idea too is to, you know, you want to go through a lot of these things and these meditation retreats and a lot of these things to deal with your trauma.
But in the reality is that even that dealing with that, you have to argue for uniqueness and for distinctions and unique personhood.
And ultimately, you have to embrace the fact that if you embrace oneism, you can't give any accounting for uniqueness or personhood.
Like the person, if someone is dealing with, you know, sexual trauma, if they were raped.
Then there's no distinction.
That person that raped you is no different.
They're just, they're blended with the divine just as you are.
So, how do you account for distinctions, humanity, dignity, and worth?
It just happened.
It's just part of the one.
That's the logical conclusion.
And that's why the people who are in the new age go from practice to practice to practice to practice with no end in sight.
That's the ultimate logical conclusion.
And that's why they need Christ.
The ultimate catalyst to Tatuism.
Yeah.
So, my hope is that since we're getting to the end logical conclusion of self sacrifice and also the sacrificing of others, that God will use this to bring a revival, right?
That he is the only hope.
They can't go any further than they are now, right?
I mean, they're sacrificing even their own children, and then they're trying to take the children of others through government schools.
Like, that's the reality because they're not propagating, right?
If that's the correct word.
Christian Meditation Contrast00:09:14
But thinking in terms of the new age, why it's so dangerous is because it's not taking just the Hermetic philosophy, but it's amalgamating that with Hinduism, right?
So then we get transcendental meditation, we get yoga, which is a whole other branch of like a form of Gnosticism and a philosophy that is just.
All just making this crazy package of trying to get that bridge to total freedom.
But it always ends up with self sacrifice.
And it's not going to solve the problem.
But what I do find is through God's judgment, at least, that He does it for a reason.
He does it for a purpose.
He says He works all things for the good of those who love Him according to His purpose, right?
And I got to trust in that purpose.
And the only thing I can do living in this world is preach the gospel to those.
Who needs a savior.
And that's everybody who doesn't know Jesus.
And that's how the world gets changed.
Right.
Yeah.
It sounds like the end of all New Ageism and the occult is self sacrifice.
And the answer is that it's a self sacrifice to become God.
But the answer is that God sacrificed his own son, not so that you could become God, but so that you could have union and communion with God.
The whole idea of Christian, even in terms of meditation, it's not that Christians are against meditation, but we believe in Christian.
Meditation, which is the opposite of Eastern or mantra meditation.
Eastern mantra meditation, in a nutshell, the goal is to empty the mind of all rational thought, to rid yourself from the burden of all substance, because that would really just be a distraction and a hindrance.
So you might even take a seven syllable phrase and repeat it over and over, not to draw the focus of your mind onto that phrase and its meaning.
You're using the phrase not to focus your thought.
You're using the phrase with such extreme repetition so that it becomes meaningless, so that it actually serves as a, it's not something to focus your mind on.
It's meant to serve as an anchor so that anytime your mind attempts to focus on something, it brings you back to the focus of nothing, to nothing, to nothing.
Empty the mind, empty the mind, empty the mind.
And so, mantra, Eastern meditation, is seeking to empty the mind and And in the process of emptying the mind, that you would attain some state of transcendental oneness with everything, and therefore a sense of oneness with the God who is in everything.
And here's the point.
And therefore, the end goal, the end final aim is that through Eastern meditation and New Age and all that, the end goal is to attain the experience of being.
God, of being God.
Whereas Christian meditation, which there is a category for meditation within Christian terms, Psalm one, you know, that I meditate on your law day and night.
But again, it's a direct contrast with Christian meditation.
It's not trying to rid and empty the mind of rational thought.
Instead, it's trying to feast the mind on substance, the thoughts of God, thinking his thoughts after him, taking the law of God and not just memorizing it.
But meditating, thinking about how it works, what it means, how it applies.
And as we meditate on not seeking to rid our minds of substance and all rational thought, but filling our minds with that which is the truest substance, the purest substance, and truly logical, truly perfectly rational thought, namely God's thoughts, his word.
In doing that, the highest goal, the end goal, is not to experience being God, but instead, To experience a relationship with God, it's a new age and the occult and mantra meditation and yoga, they all want the experience of being God.
Christians want to know God.
One wants to be God, one wants to know God.
We want to know God and we're content with knowing God because Jesus says, and this is eternal life, that they might know me and you, the Father.
And in knowing God, We believe it's just, we're not, and it's only God's grace.
It's not because anything special, you know, in and of ourselves, but by the grace of God, we're not so deceived by our own arrogance and pride.
Like we recognize that we can never be God.
And even if we could, we'd mess the whole thing up.
That would actually be a terrible reality.
We don't want to be God.
We are content with simply knowing God, that He is so glorious and so beautiful.
He is the true, the good, and the beautiful.
And knowing Him, All of our desires are satisfied.
And that's where true joy and true peace doesn't come from the experience of being God.
Peace comes from knowing God.
So, Christian meditation is I actually do want to think and love the Lord my God with all my mind.
I want to fill my mind, not empty it, but fill my mind and, namely, particularly, fill my mind on God's substance, God's word, God's truth, so that I might know Him.
Whereas, mantra, Eastern meditation, New Age, the occult, I want to empty my mind.
So that I can reach some kind of transcendental state, a trance, so that I might experience being God.
Right.
And I'll just say one last thing in closing.
And Andy, you can give me last thoughts too is that, you know, when you think about, we've talked about the longing for transcendence through the lens of oneism and how it leads you right back to yourself and there's no end in sight.
I believe that the ultimate longing that New Agers have, they have the longing for transcendence, but the ultimate, the only way they can truly find the end game.
And true transcendence is through the lens of what Jesus said in John 17 in the high priestly prayer.
This is ultimate transcendence that Jesus longed for those who God would call to himself.
This is in the high priestly prayer in John 17, 24.
He said, Father, I desire that they also whom you have given me may be with me where I am to see my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world.
So that perfect triune.
That the father had with the son.
What I love though, when you think about the fact that within New Ageism and the New Age and the occult, even the concept of love is extremely impersonal because when there's no distinction, you can't give an accounting for personhood.
Love requires there to be an actual object and to be given accounting for that object.
And so, because of the fact that God is triune, you have one what, three who's, three beings within the one person, three persons within the one being of God, is that God is able to love and be love.
Independent of anything outside of himself.
But he doesn't want that just for himself within the three persons of the Trinity.
He wants to bring those that the Father has given to the Son.
They want to bring those into the beauty and the glory.
And that's what I love is that relationship of love.
And that's where you see, and it also states in Peter, I think it's in 1 or 2 Peter, that it's that Christ died for our sins to bring us to God.
So the beauty of the gospel isn't that we just.
Get our sins forgiven, that we can be made whole, but we actually get God.
John Owen talks about it.
He says that, like, the highest within the Reformed world, we're constantly talking about justification, and justification is the heart of the gospel.
And so, yes and amen, a thousand times, like, we can always talk about justification.
But to be fair, Owen, who was absolutely Reformed, he said that justification is the heart of the gospel, but it's not the end of the gospel.
The end of the gospel is not simply recounting the doctrines of justification again and again and again.
The end of the gospel is Is not simply how we were saved, but it's the to, you know, for what purpose were we saved.
The end of the gospel is not justification.
That's the heart of the gospel, but the end of the gospel is communion with the triune God forever.
So the end of the gospel is not just substitutionary atonement, the Christ died for my sins, but the end of the gospel is, in the final analysis, it's the people of God bellying up at the table for the The wedding supper of the lamb and laughing and dining with the choices of meats and the best of wines forever.
It's further up and further in.
Communion with the Triune God00:01:21
Love it.
Any thoughts, Andrew?
I think that's a beautiful way to end it, to be honest.
Yeah.
All right.
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