Pastor Joel Webbon argues that Protestantism's individualism invites "wokeness," necessitating a biblical patriarchy where men rule families, states, and churches. He rejects complementarianism as compromised, opposes women in office citing Isaiah, and demands theonomy to replace secular morality with God's law. Viewing history optimistically as post-millennialist, he predicts Western collapse due to sin, urging Christians to flee blue states for Texas while promoting his "Blueprints for Christendom 2.0" conference to restore a Christian theocracy where Jesus reigns over all nations, markets, and media. [Automatically generated summary]
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Christian Perspective on Tradition00:10:36
All right, what up, guys?
Welcome to the Just Pearly Things YouTube channel and welcome to the sit down.
Today, I have a man named Joel Webbin.
Look, I first saw you.
You are one of the few pastors that I have seen that is not pushing this like woke agenda.
So that's where I initially saw you.
I think I reacted to one of your videos.
Welcome, welcome to the show.
Thanks, I'm honored.
Introduce yourself to the people.
Yeah, so my name is Joel.
My wife is.
Megan, and then we have four children Olive and Ruth and Eleanor, and then Franklin.
We got a boy.
And I am in Georgetown, Texas, so about 45 minutes north of the capital, Austin.
I always tell people we are close enough to Austin to where you can hop on a toll and work for Elon, but far enough away to where hopefully our police don't get defunded.
Austin is terrible.
But we're happy to be here.
Georgetown is a small, quaint town.
I pastor a church called Covenant Bible Church, and I'm the president of a social media ministry thing called Right Response Ministries.
Right, response ministries.
Okay.
So, question you're Baptist, right?
Is that correct?
Barely Baptist is what I would say, but yeah, technically, yes, I'm Baptist.
Okay.
What is the difference between that and like, so I grew up Catholic.
So, what is the difference between that and Catholicism?
Yeah, well, really for all Protestants, I mean, a lot of Protestants are completely compromised and out to lunch, but let's say faithful Protestants, if we assume that, the main difference would be the five solas.
So, Martin Luther, Catholics aren't a huge fan.
I can see why.
But those were the five things.
Before you get into the five points of Calvinism or soteriology, which is just doctrine of salvation, the five solas.
Sola is the Latin word for alone.
So, Martin Luther, he coined this idea that it's scripture alone, it's grace alone, it's faith alone, it's Christ alone, and then it's to the glory of God alone.
So, the big difference between any Protestant, Presbyterian, Anglican, Baptist, the big difference is going to be that word sola or So, Catholics, in a nutshell, I would say, you know, and I'll just speak frankly, I think that Roman Catholicism is what I would call the plus Christian religion.
The plus meaning that it's scripture plus tradition.
So, you see within, you know, the Council of Trent and different Catholic, you know, founding documents that it is two equal streams, is the language they use.
You have both scripture and tradition.
So, tradition is not subordinate to scripture, but they're on the same plane.
Equal authority, and the Catholic Church is notorious for saying, well, you know, the church actually gave birth to the scripture.
Whereas we would say that the Council of Nicaea, you know, early church fathers, that they didn't deem the scripture or give it its weight, but rather simply recognized the word of God.
And so, anyway, so scripture plus tradition, then they would say grace plus sacraments.
Grace is not imputed, accredited to our account through faith alone, but it's infused through, you know, the Mass, the Eucharist, through confession, all the seven sacraments that Catholics have.
We have two baptism and the Lord's Supper.
And then faith alone, Catholics would say faith plus works.
We would say, That salvation is not faith plus works, but rather faith equals salvation plus works.
So it's faith alone that saves.
And if you're really saved, you're going to do good stuff.
You're going to obey Jesus.
And then it's Christ alone.
We would say that Catholics, it's Christ plus saints, Mary and other saints.
And then to the glory of God alone.
And we would say just the logical conclusion if it's, you know, grace plus sacraments, faith plus works, Christ plus saints, and it's scripture plus tradition, then you can't say that it's to the glory of God alone.
You have to say it's to the glory of God plus the Pope.
Tradition, church fathers, Mary.
So, yeah.
See, I get a little, I put it, I see both sides somehow.
Because, on one hand, I see when, like, I guess from a Catholic's point of view, when I don't know if Baptists fall into this, so you could correct me if I'm wrong.
You clearly know more about this stuff than I do.
But, like, when they talk about reading the Bible and then coming to conclusions, is like basically what I've gathered from more Protestant churches.
I almost feel like that's how sometimes the wokeness gets, like, in.
And thrust it into a lot of these churches because it's like people coming to their own conclusions.
But then I don't know how you can not see what's been going on with the Catholic Church in the last couple of years.
No, it would be a great argument.
It would make you question it when you're like, well, if this institution is guided by God, why do I have to?
Right.
Who is in charge of this right now?
You're right.
On its face, it would be a great argument.
The counter argument is a little guy called the Pope, who's the wokest woke.
I mean, you know, all the transgender stuff that the Catholic Church is changing its mind on, you know, suddenly after 2,000 years, you know, being rooted in a certain position.
And so I think the reality is that at the end of the day, you know, I say this, you know, it could apply to Roman Catholicism, but I say it with my Presbyterian brothers, you know, they're like, well, Baptists, you know, they hold to local church autonomy.
So there's no ecclesiastical authority outside of that one local church.
And they're like, it's easy for one local church, if there's no formal authority outside of it, to go off the rails.
And I, you know, I always, Tease them and say, yeah, when Presbyterians go off the rails, the whole denomination goes off the rails.
And I think it's the same with Roman Catholicism.
In every single realm, the reality is that if society as a whole loses its mind, if the world loses its mind, then it's just going to be one piece of the puzzle at a time compromising or the whole enchilada simultaneously.
But at the end of the day, we're talking about polity, forms of governance.
There is no single, I believe that one.
Form of polity is correct from a biblical perspective, but there is practically speaking no church polity that is perfectly immune to compromise.
Yeah, well, and that's kind of what we're finding out with the Catholics because I feel like, especially like when I talk to older Catholics, they kind of thought we were immune to a lot of that stuff because we had the institution.
Like, I, my grandma passed away, but I was like, she would be rolling in her grave right now if she saw what was going on.
What do you think has contributed to?
Like, just this general trend across the board of seeing churches get more and more woke.
Yeah.
So, part of it is going back to Protestants, like what you were saying, you know, in terms of, you know, it would seem on the face that Roman Catholicism would be more immune or less vulnerable to wokeness.
I think there's something true there.
So, part of it, I think, is just subjectivism.
The idea, and Protestants, I think, are more vulnerable to subjectivism.
The idea of being atomistic.
Individualistic.
We don't think of societies and cultures and nations as a whole anymore.
So for me, I'm an unapologetic Christian nationalist.
I'm patriarchal.
I'm a theonomist.
We could talk about what that means.
I'm post millennial.
Lots of things that make lots of people mad.
But the point is, as it pertains to this question, everybody thinks that they're an isolated atom.
So thinking like chemistry, we're not molecular.
So, I think of the family unit as a molecule, right?
So, like water, it's not just hydrogen, it's H2O.
But we've split the molecule.
You know, what we've done in science, you know, we've now done, you know, in society, the same kind of principle.
And so now it's no longer the family, but it's, you know, I was looking over just even my personal family's history and it was 15 minutes ago.
It was, we're not talking about thousands of 15 minutes ago, you've got listed families in a town, you know, and it says head of household, there's the man, right?
And everyone was fine with that language.
Nobody was losing their minds, nobody was offended.
Head of household, you know, You know, whoever, Jim Roger, you know, and it's the husband, it's the father.
And now it's not households represented by a head, but it's I'm my own person.
And so when everybody becomes individual and separated from society, separated from churches, separated from families, and all of a sudden meaning and truth, instead of being transcendent and objective and universal, it becomes subjective and interpersonal.
And then, yeah, you begin to become.
Meticulously introspective, constantly navel gazing, looking within, looking to yourself to find meaning.
What is navel gazing?
Just looking at my belly button, just obsessed with me.
Instead of looking up and looking out, I'm like, wow, look, I have a freckle there.
Well, even because I did 12 years at Catholic school and I don't even think they went over patriarchy at all.
If they did, I don't remember it.
It must have been like a quick.
And it's kind of funny because you would think the Catholics would, because they're pretty big on the idea of the Holy Father.
No.
Catholics talk.
I mean, the Pope, he's a father, or priest, father, bless me, father, for I have sinned, like that.
I mean, father language.
And that's all patriarchy means, just for the record.
The simplest and most accurate definition is father rule.
That's what it means.
That's what patriarchy is, is father rule.
So, from a Christian perspective, whether you're.
On the Catholic side of the aisle or the Protestant side of the aisle, wherever you land, if you're within the larger banner of Christianity, patriarchy is, I mean, it's nothing to be ashamed of and it's inescapable, even if you're not identifying as a Christian.
Truth is truth.
We live, so we would start with the Father, right?
Father God.
We live in the Father's world and the Father has chosen to bless people, his image bearing creatures, through human fathers in three primary spheres, which would be familial fathers.
That's the biological father in a home, families, through civil fathers, right?
That's the state, the civil magistrate, which I believe should be made up of men, qualified men.
And then you also have church fathers.
Women shouldn't vote, right?
The Supreme Court Debate00:03:24
Women should vote.
I do not.
Yeah.
So I think the 19th Amendment is a serious problem.
Yeah.
I don't even think we should be in office.
I'm like, what, you want to chick on her period?
Right.
And that's what I was saying.
Before, yeah.
Is speaking about not even the vote, but about the office itself.
Isaiah literally says, so the book of Isaiah, the prophet, he says that one of the marks of God's Judgment upon a people is that they would be ruled by women and children.
You look at our leaders in the West.
Yeah.
So in the West today, who are our leaders?
Well, they're geriatric.
I mean, they're people who I don't even know if they're physically alive or if there's like invisible strings.
This person's been dead for six months and they just painted up their corpse.
So they're so old, they have dementia, barely functioning.
Or they're children, right?
Think Greta Thunberg telling the whole world what to do when she's 14 years old because she's got a feeling in her heart.
Or, you know, it's women.
It's not men, but it's, you know, Nancy Pelosi and this person and that person.
And part of the problem with that, in my assessment, it's not because women are unintelligent or that they have nothing to contribute.
For me, the problem is the way that God designed women.
So, again, looking at like Ezekiel and other Old Testament books of the Bible, when it describes civil rulers or describes like Rome and emperors, it describes them with allegorical language of a bear or a lion.
They have claws and sharp teeth.
Whereas a woman, that's not her nature and it's not supposed to be.
Her nature is supposed to be warm, embrace, hospitable, nurturing.
So, I think a great example would be Kintanji Brown Jackson.
So, you know, when she was being interviewed and they were pressing on her and asking questions about her, you know, the Supreme Court, Supreme Court justice, the most recent one that was appointed.
They're going to roast me for not knowing this.
No, it's fine.
It's fine.
But the most recent Supreme Court justice, you know, appointee who was a black woman.
So, it's like, well, I mean, Her qualifications don't really seem to matter.
It seems like we were just going for a stereotype and filling the slot.
And so, but when they were pushing on her, one of the things that the big objections that was coming from, you know, Republicans and guys on the right was you've been soft on crime, in particular, the crime of pedophilia.
That she had served as a judge for many years and had, you know, multiple cases where there's a man who was proven to be guilty beyond reasonable doubt in a court of law for.
For abusing, sexually abusing children.
And her, you know, she would always give, or at least there were multiple times, I shouldn't say always because I don't know every single case, but there were proven multiple cases where she gave like the lightest sentence possible.
And what I would say is, you know, that is kind of the nature of a woman.
She's looking and saying, oh, this guy, I bet he had a bad mom, you know, or maybe he had a rough life.
And I would say that is a great disposition in a home as a mother with a four year old.
That's what you want if you're for, you know.
But in a court of law, as a civil ruler, you want a man who will say, You did what with kids?
Let's get some rope, find a tree, hang them.
Gender Roles and Justice00:14:15
Like that's what men do.
And that's good.
You need both.
You need women and you need men.
Right.
Well, and that's like, and that's when, like, it's like when you get red pilled, you almost start to see that all of these women are in positions, even in like corporate America, even outside of like, Just because we're women, not because we actually like deserve the positions.
And so it's like we almost like think we're more important and special and doing more than we are because they're giving us these like stupid quotas.
And that's what I realized it in like women's basketball, where they basically take money from the men and give it to the women.
And I'm like, they do that with us with everything, I bet.
And then like all the, yeah.
But I don't know.
I just, It's so interesting to see it like translate into the churches because you'd always think like the churches were immune from this stuff.
Right.
They are not, not even close.
So within the church world, you know, everything's, you know, well, you would hope that everything would have some kind of theological reasoning.
We're going to do this because the Bible says that.
And in my experience, so again, and this would pertain to both Catholics and Protestants, the term is complementarianism that usually is used to define, and this would be the conservative position, which I would say is, is, Not that conservative, and I don't really like it.
I don't think that it's faithful.
I don't think it's biblical.
But complementarianism think complement, right?
So, two things that are different, right?
You don't complement calamari with a second plate of calamari.
You might like calamari and so you want double, and that's great, but that wouldn't be, you know, compliment.
To compliment calamari, you have something that's distinct, it's separate, but it goes well with it, right?
So a glass of, you know, chilled white Riesling wine or whatever, you know, to compliment, you know, or marinara sauce, you know, something to compliment it.
It's distinct, but they work well together.
So complementarianism was the theological term.
It was coined by Wayne Grudem and John Piper, who are two pastors and theologians, but it wasn't coined until 1988.
So, very, you know, kind of 15 minutes ago situation, very recent.
And the idea of complementarianism is that men and women are different, but they work well together, hand in glove, you know, they work in tandem, work in concert.
But what happened, and this wasn't so much John Piper and Wayne Grudem, to be fair to those guys, but what happened is it was quickly hijacked by other people and it became a halfway house between egalitarianism and patriarchy.
And so, egalitarianism, everybody's equal, everybody's the same.
That can apply to gender, that can apply to class, you know, and economic different levels, you know, everyone's the same.
Um, and so then that's the heart of wokeness is this egalitarian neo Marxist idea.
So, complementarianism was basically the patriarchal guys were saying, We know this is biblical, we know it's right, but feminism has crept into the world and not only the world but the church.
And everybody's starting to go left, going towards feminism and egalitarianism.
So, we're going to head them off like Gandalf, you know, on the bridge, you shall not pass, you know.
And, and uh, but in doing so, they instead of saying, Stay here, it's good, it's right, it's true, uh, they said, Well, we'll go, we'll go.
Will concede and will compromise with you in part, but can you at least stay here?
And so complementarianism came in, and this is what theologians, the more liberal ones, not Piper and Grudem so much, but what they did was they said, Well, complementarianism means that God has assigned to men and women differing roles.
But what they did is they took the distinction of roles of men and women and they hung it in midair, they made it arbitrary.
So it would be like this so think of fish and birds.
It's like, Well, God decided in creation that birds would fly and fish would swim.
Just because it's like, but don't you think it has something to do with the fact of the way that he made them, their design, not just their assigning of roles, but their nature?
Like that, fish are called to swim, sure, but don't you think it might be because they have gills and fins and scales, and birds are called to fly, sure, but maybe the hollow bone structure and the feathers and the wings have something to do with it?
And so, that's what happened with men and women is well, they're called to different things, but it's not because they have different natures, it's arbitrary.
It's arbitrary.
They're just called to different roles because God likes it and it works well together, but it's not really stemming from their design.
So then you have this mindset of the woman saying, anything you can do, I can do better.
I can do anything better than you, but I won't because I'm not called to it, which quickly becomes, I will.
You know, so.
Yeah.
Well, and then, oh, that makes a lot of sense.
So basically, they were trying to explain it in a different way, but then it got hijacked by the people that are egalitarian.
Yes.
And then basically, that's how because I would hear the I can't submit to my husband unless he submits to God.
Have you heard that?
Yeah, I've heard that, which I guess it's like it's true in a way, but I hear it more as used in like a way they want to control their husbands.
Have you heard that or no?
Yeah, definitely.
That's what complementarianism essentially did in terms of a wife's submission to her husband, it essentially said, first and foremost, the husband's authority became.
The last line of defense.
So, meaning non existent.
Functionally, it's non existent.
So, what it became was, you know, complementary.
So, that guys are trying to hold on to their biblical card, right?
Because they don't want to just publicly come out and say, yeah, I'm a lib and I don't care about the Bible and I'm woke.
So, guys are still, you know, they're pretending a conservative, biblically faithful position.
So, they're like, oh, you know, we're not egalitarian.
We're not feminist.
We're complementarian.
But we just don't want to use the word patriarchy because it has stigma attached to it and it's going to unnecessarily push people away.
So, we're complementarian.
This term that, you know, was coined in 1988, you know, very, very recently.
And they'll say, yeah, the husband does have authority.
Over his wife.
He's the head of his wife.
That's Ephesians 5, as Christ is head of the church.
But in a healthy marriage with a good husband, number one, he's going to lead his wife, not just command her, but he's going to inspire her and lead her and shape her and encourage her to where she's going to be agreeing with him most of the time because he's a great leader.
And if she's disagreeing, it's probably because he's a bad leader.
And if she ever disagrees in a healthy marriage, there'll be little disagreement.
And when there is disagreement, he doesn't just pull the I'm in charge card, the authority card.
Instead, They should pause and pray and fast and consider and this and that.
And if they can't get on the same page, even after pausing and prayer, then they should go to the elders of the church.
And the elders of the church are probably going to take her side in most churches.
So they're going to go to the elders of the church and they're going to weigh in as a third party and overrule the husband's authority in his own home and side with the wife.
And if the elders, in a very rare case, which never happens, if the elders were to say, well, actually, it's 50 50, a perfect even split, you could go either way.
Maybe he's right, maybe she's right.
So they disagree.
They seek the Lord in prayer, still disagree, seek the elders of the church, and it's a perfect split.
You could go either way.
Then, and in that case only, then the husband gets the tiebreaker.
And in a healthy marriage where there's not a ton of conflict, the husband, you know, that scenario where he gets the tiebreaker will probably occur over the course of a 50 year marriage, maybe three times.
And that's the authority of a husband, which is to say, the authority of the husband is nothing.
So, how do you guys counsel couples in your church?
If they ask for it, of course, yeah.
How do you guys do it differently?
Well, for one, I'm patriarchal.
So, I believe that the husband actually has authority over his wife.
So, when I'm stepping into a marriage, into a home, first, I want to have a sound biblical understanding of jurisdictions, right?
So, in the same way, part of my problem with COVID and all the branch COVIDian, Crap was, you know, that, well, wait a second.
The state does not have jurisdiction in these areas, in these spheres of the church or in free markets, you know, with businesses and this and that, or families and homes.
And you have to stay in your lane.
And it's the same with pastors.
So a governing official in the civil realm doesn't have authority to do whatever they want in every other realm.
So, too, you know, a pastor, he has ecclesiastical authority in the church.
And certainly, the church is made up of families, and he's going to be preaching and counseling and all those kinds of things.
But he has to be very careful of what authority he actually has.
So, if I step into a marriage because I've been invited in to provide counsel, I'm going to be really careful in what I, you know, the best way I could say it is distinguishing the authority of counsel versus the authority of command.
I'm going to counsel and at times counsel strongly.
I really think you would do well and be wise to consider.
XYZ, or if it's something that's clear in scripture, um, like the husband is beating his wife, God forbid.
Um, I'm not going to counsel and say, I really think you should stop.
I'm going to say, you must stop beating your wife.
And we also are going to, because this is like a Venn diagram.
In this case, spheres overlap.
This is a familial issue in the family sphere, an ecclesiastical issue as members in our church, and it's a civil issue.
I'm going to have to inform civil authorities.
However, if it's not something that's so cut and dry, I'm going to give not the authority of command, but the authority of counsel.
But at the end of the day, the husband actually has the command, he actually has the authority.
And I'm going to also be really careful.
I think this is something that the whole world.
Our whole world with Me Too, you know, you might as well call it church too, because the church has bought into the Me Too movement hook, line, and sinker.
And here's the thing about the church the church has not led the way in society for decades, sadly.
So the church is actually always behind the wokest place on earth, I believe.
I truly believe the wokest place on earth right now is the church.
The reason why is because.
Or like college?
I think.
Well, because the world, even colleges, the world is already realizing, oh, that was a mistake.
Yeah, I mean, SNL, you watch SNL.
I mean, nobody should watch SNL, but if you did, they're even backtracking and doing skits that are kind of like, yeah, maybe the woke thing's kind of dumb.
Like at every level, I think people are coming off of wokeness, coming off of some of these things.
But the problem is the church is always five years behind.
So the church might have been woke last.
And even that would be hard to substantiate.
But let's just assume the church was woke last.
Society is woke first, church is woke last.
Well, the church will stay woke.
About five years after society has already realized it's a bad idea because the church is not influential.
It's too compromised, unfortunately.
It has not been leading the way, leading the culture for a very long time.
So, all that being said, my point is just that with wokeness and with me too, that's how I was getting there.
If a woman comes to a pastor and says, This happened, biblically, the Bible addresses this.
We have clear verses in scripture, especially in the Old Testament, that should be viewed as case law.
That means it needs to be not just dropped wholesale.
A one to one ratio in our society today, but you extract from this Old Testament law with Israel the general equity, the general principles there, and then you seek with prudence to apply it in a relevant, applicable way in our society today.
And one of those laws is about victims, or I should say, alleged victims.
If an alleged victim comes and says, This thing happened, you do not immediately assume that that thing actually happened.
That the reality is that in our culture, we assume that the first person to voice A grievance is the victim when it is entirely possible that the person who's this grievance is being voiced about, if that person's lying, that's the true victim, the person who's being lied against.
And so, I go into a situation, you know, pastorally, and I don't go in with my mind already made up that, you know, a woman cried.
I remember my dad taught me this when I was a young boy.
I made a girl cry.
I didn't touch her or anything like that.
I just, you know, I said something to her that offended her.
What did you say?
I'll come back to that.
I'm willing to answer.
But I said something and it made her cry.
And she told some of the leaders in the church.
And my dad was the pastor.
And so my dad's kind of getting pressure.
The pastor's son is making girls cry.
And I remember he sat me down privately and I told him, But dad, this is what I said.
And it was true.
And blah, blah, blah.
And he said, Well, let's be careful how we say it.
And this and that.
And I was like, I feel like I was.
And I'll try.
And okay, dad.
And he was like, All right, son, I love you.
And my dad's a great dad.
And he was like, I love you.
And a lesson just for the future.
He said, You just need to know that in our current world, if a woman cries, she wins.
Always.
And you just need to know that if you're going to have any chance as a man in life, you just need to know that this is the world we live in.
And you're going to have to be shrewd, not compromised, not cowardly, but strategic.
You're going to have to be wise.
So, what I said was basically, there were rumors in our high school that this woman had done something.
I don't want to be overly specific, but had done some things that are unbiblical, that would be immoral, that would be, you know, bad.
And so, and I had talked to her.
With another girl, it was youth group, we were teenagers, and said, Hey, like this, everybody knows that you're in our church and you're in our youth group and they're saying these things about you.
And is it true?
And she was like, Yes.
And I was like, I think you need to say something and admit that this is wrong.
Genuine Evangelical Sinners00:04:38
And, you know, because it's giving our church and it's giving Christ a bad name, it makes Jesus look bad.
And the takeaway for her was, How could you correct me?
You know, and so.
Well, but.
And I always say, like, if, and I don't know about Baptist in particular, but I always say if, like, the church really had wives like that, their men would be lined up to go to church.
But the problem is, like, exactly what you're talking about.
Like, the general consensus I've gotten from guys is that they go to church and find worse quality women because it's like they go there to feel better after they've lived a life of sin, basically.
Okay.
There's probably some truth.
I don't know.
Yeah.
Like, especially in like some of the like non, like, I've heard this about, um, What is it, evangelical?
Yeah, evangelical.
And I just, just so you know, so it's all right.
So if you think, you know, Catholic and Protestant, underneath the Protestant banner, you would have mainline Protestant denominations, Episcopalian, Anglican, and then evangelical would be a subgroup of Protestant.
Baptist would be a subgroup of evangelical.
So I am technically an evangelical.
I pick on evangelicals regularly because they need it.
There's a lot of problems.
But, uh, but I, you know, I am technically an evangelical.
So, so you're right.
I think, you know, to get a, put a little bit more fine point on it, the type of, um, Evangelical church, I think that is like that, is your very seeker friendly, you know, kind of trying to, you know, attractional church.
It's not a church with a robust liturgy.
It's not a church with, you know, with traditions.
It's not a church that's preaching bold truth.
It's a church that has a rock concert and smoke machines, you know, and laser lights.
I just went to a church like that.
Yeah.
And it was so weird.
It was, oh my gosh, it was so weird.
And it's nothing against them.
They were like very nice.
I'm sure they were.
I was like, I was like, what on earth is this?
There's a whole band on the front.
I'm Catholic.
So it's like, this is very, there's like cameras everywhere, and then they'd lay hands on people and they'd like fall down.
I was like, what is this?
I have never seen this in my life.
I'm very familiar with that.
Oh, wait, really?
We don't do that, but I know what you're talking about.
So, anyways, but yeah, so charismatic is kind of what you're describing.
So the laying on of hands is a biblical principle.
Even within Catholicism, there would be a laying on of hands for certain blessings and certain Rituals and ordination, those kinds of things.
I have never seen it like that.
I'll say that much.
Yeah, yeah.
But the falling over, charismatics would call that slain in the spirit, that the Holy Spirit has like slayed you.
You've just, you know, you're just overwhelmed by the love of God, the power of God, whatever it might be.
But in a charismatic kind of circle that's big on, you know, falling over and, you know, or speaking in tongues, you know, or, and then tends to follow with a charismatic, you know, guys, you know, the rock concert kind of thing.
And the sermon tends to be more of a TED talk.
You know, and or it's not even a sermon, it's a guy.
He's sitting at a coffee table, he won't even stand up.
You know, he's sitting at a coffee table, he's got his iPad instead of a Bible and a warm cup of coffee.
Uh, and and I'm not gonna preach at you, I'm just gonna share.
And he just shares, he's very relatable and and he sounds humble, but everything's about him, so it's actually really prideful.
Um, you know, and in that kind of environment, uh, sure, the idea that there could be a lot of women there who are trying to clean up their lives.
Are coming from, you know, seven years going to the club or whatever it might be.
That totally makes sense because, because that church, even with their music and stuff like that, it kind of resembles the club that they came from, you know, the way people dress, even at church, right?
People aren't, you know, they're not dressing modestly, you know, and so, and that would make sense that in that environment, a heel song would be an example, you know, or elevation would be, these are big, charismatic, seeker friendly churches.
But in that environment, to say that, and again, I won't say everyone because I'm not omniscient, don't know.
But to say that there might be a large percentage of both men and women coming from sinful past, trying to clean up their life, but have been very worldly, very vain, it's perfectly reasonable.
I think that's likely.
However, if we're saying the church at large in general, I would like to think that if you're going to a sound, solid biblical church, that you are going to find both men and women who.
Separation of Church and State00:15:13
Who are genuine.
They're not perfect.
They're sinners.
We're all sinners, but that are genuine.
And there are a lot of women, I think, in sound, conservative, traditional churches, Presbyterian and Baptist and Anglican and this, that, and the other, that were raised the right way, have not been promiscuous, who have lived chaste lives.
And there are women who genuinely want to marry a godly man and want to submit to him.
And my wife is an example of that.
I have an awesome wife.
She loves God.
She loves Jesus.
She loves me.
And she seeks to follow my leadership, and I seek to lead her lovingly.
And I'm not trying to just domineer over my wife, but I do have authority in my home.
And whenever I talk about it, I regularly upset women, and they think, oh, that terrible man, his poor wife and children, they're probably.
That was my next question.
Do you get a lot of pushback for these opinions?
Yeah.
So I had a video that went semi viral.
It's not, you know, maybe not the viral standard for Pearl, but, you know, for the Joel level of viral.
But basically, it was a clip.
Somebody took out a clip of one of my sermons where I was talking about authority and I was talking about different spheres.
So, you know, the state, the church, and the home.
And I got to the home and I said, at the level of the state, civil magistrates, those in civil authority, their authority is a mile wide, but it's only about an inch deep.
The state does not have that much authority to tell people what to do.
Get out of our business.
You have some authority, but it's very limited.
Your jurisdiction is small.
The scope, you know, if it's USA, 330 million people are under your authority, but your authority is an inch deep.
The church, I think there's more authority, but a smaller scope.
So, greater degree of authority for church leaders, but a smaller scope.
And then I said, the family is the smallest scope, but a massive degree of authority.
And I said, for instance, I have authority over five individuals, my wife and four children, but the authority that I have is a massive level of authority.
And so then I said, and I gave examples.
This is where I get in trouble because I try to be helpful.
And so I give, you know, not just in theory, but in practice.
So I said, you know, with my children, I said, for instance, with my children, I have the authority over what they eat, what they wear, even when they go to the bathroom.
Now, my children are at the time we're five, three, two, and zero, their ages.
So, what I'm talking about is, yeah, I tell my young children, hey, go potty before you put on your jammies and get in bed.
We need to go potty.
Did you go potty?
Like, I, you know, I have that authority.
I wasn't saying my 17 year old, I tell them it's 415.
Yeah.
You know, so, but of course, people interpret it that way because people hate me because they're feminist.
And I'm talking about Christians.
They are feminist and they worship women instead of Christ.
And so, anybody who, you know, Adheres to biblical patriarchy whatsoever, they're going to try to destroy him and they don't care if they're twisting his words.
But then I got to my wife and I said, The example I gave with my wife is I said, In the case of my wife, for instance, here's an example.
One day I was coming back from work and walked in the house and I saw that she was reading a book.
And I said, Women shouldn't be able to read.
No, I'm just kidding.
I didn't say that.
But I said, She was reading a book and it was on infant baptism, baptizing babies, pedo baptism.
And I'm a Baptist, I'm a credo Baptist.
So I think baptism follows a credible profession of faith.
You wait, essentially.
That's the nutshell.
And I said, Hey, babe, Don't read that.
No.
And I said, um, those are we want to believe what's true, whether we hold to it now or not.
If we don't hold to the truth, we want to change and hold to the truth.
But I don't want my wife, this is what I told her, I don't want my wife being convinced when she's married to a Baptist pastor going to a Baptist church.
I don't want her being convinced of infant baptism and that being just an opportunity, a wedge for there to be contention in our marriage and division within our church.
And so I said, put down that book.
We're not going to read that right now.
We will read it together when I have time and we'll work through it together.
And I said this in a sermon, giving this, I said it in my marriage, but then I said it in a sermon, giving this example, and it got 750, like close to a million views.
And it was all Christians who are complementarian.
Most of them would say, Oh, I'm complementarian.
Men have authority in their home.
They don't believe that.
They don't believe that.
And so they went semi viral and they spread it around.
And everybody, a ton of people stopped following me and said, He's a monster.
He won't let his wife read.
Where it's like, Yeah, that is correct.
Here's the deal.
You guys all say that you're not feminist.
I'm talking about church people.
You say that you believe the Bible, that you're not feminist, and you'll say, oh, the husband is the head of his wife, as Christ is the head of the church.
But here's what you'll never do you'll never, ever give a practical example of it.
So you always keep it out in the 17th dimension of theory.
Oh, yes, the husband is the head of his wife, like Christ is the head of the church.
But if any guy ever gave an example of actually using that authority, you would always disagree with it.
No matter what the example was.
So just be honest and say, I actually don't believe the husband has authority.
I'm a raging feminist, just like the purple haired freak.
I just call it complementarianism so I can keep my biblical card.
But at the end of the day, I worship women.
Just be honest.
We could move on.
Well, yeah, because how do they respond when you use your authority by saying no is the real question.
It's all fun and dandy when you agree, but when you disagree, I think that's when you see who.
Actually, believes what they say they believe.
But the person who didn't have a problem, just for the record, with this whole thing was my wife.
My wife loves me.
And to be fair, my local church, you can even hear on the recording, they're laughing because they agree.
They get it.
They get it.
They know me.
They know that my wife is not being locked in a dungeon in our home.
And they're like, yeah, that's a good example.
And the way that I told it, I was being humorous with the example.
It was true.
I was being truthful, but saying, hey, no, baby, we're not becoming Pado Baptist.
Uh-uh.
You know, like we'll wait, read that book together.
And it was funny, it was also true, and it was applicable.
It was helpful to demonstrate here's a practical example of how a husband actually has authority in his marriage.
My wife was fine, my church was fine, but most Christians were not fine.
They were enraged.
Yeah, because they'll say that she's like being abused, but she doesn't even know it.
Right.
What do they say?
Like Stockholm Syndrome?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Something like that.
You mentioned earlier, and I'm probably going to say this wrong, but I wrote it down.
Theonomist?
Yeah, theonomist.
Theonomy.
What does that mean?
All it means is patriarchy, father rule.
Theonomy, God's law.
So, as a theonomist, I would be a general equity theonomist.
It's complicated, but to simplify it, I believe that God's law should be the law of the land.
So, I believe that God's law is good and right and true and immutable, unchanging.
It was good.
If it was ever good, it's always good.
That society doesn't get to determine morality, that morality is transcendent.
Unchanging, it's universal.
And so, as a theonomist, I would say that, you know, three kinds of classifications or categorizations of God's law, particularly in the Old Testament, would be God's moral law, his civil law, and his ceremonial law.
So, the moral law would be summarized most, you know, acutely in the Decalogue that's the Ten Commandments.
So, Exodus 20, Ten Commandments have no other gods before me, do not make any graven images, don't take the Lord's name in vain, remember the Sabbath, keep it holy, honor your father and mother, don't kill or don't murder.
Do not commit adultery, don't steal, don't lie, bear false witness, and do not covet.
So I would say that's the summary of moral law, and that's transcendent.
It's not just for the Old Testament, it's not just for Israel, it's not just for these people at this time in this place.
It's for all people, whether you're Christian or not.
It is for all people.
God issues his law, not just to Christian people, his people, but to all people, because he is not a universal father.
We're not all God's children.
That's the whole idea of the Christian faith.
You're adopted.
You become a child of God.
Jesus said in John chapter 8 of the Pharisees, He said, You're not children of God.
The devil is your daddy.
You're children of the devil.
Because children always bear a striking resemblance to their fathers.
You look just like the devil.
He was a murderer.
He's a liar.
And here you are.
You're liars and you're trying to murder me.
So you are the spawn of Satan, literally.
In words of Jesus, John chapter 8, Jesus is my favorite preacher.
He gets it.
So we're not all children of God.
We always say we're all God's children.
No, you become a child of God through faith in Christ.
If you don't have faith in Jesus, Jesus said, No one knows the Father but the Son and those he chooses to reveal him to.
If you don't know Jesus, you don't know God.
You're Hindu?
You don't know God.
You're Muslim?
No.
You don't know God.
If you're a Jew, you don't know God.
Does that mean you don't believe in a separation of church and state?
So, great question.
Theocracy is the idea that there is a God above the state.
And I would say theocracy is inescapable, it's not whether but which.
So, every state has a reigning orthodoxy, a dogma, and a theos.
A god, um, and it's not whether but which, so it's either the Christian god or it's going to be uh, so it's going to be Christian nationalism, which I prescribe to, or yeah, you know, Hindu nationalism, Muslim nationalism, or or the state itself.
Well, we don't believe in any god, we're very sophisticated and developed.
Uh, great, then the state becomes god, which is what we've seen for the last three years with COVID and BLM.
So that's just statism, but it's still a god.
And there's always here's the thing, there's always going to be blasphemy laws, there's things that you can't say in Germany.
If I say that, you know, I think.
I think the history has been embellished.
I think it was 5,990,000 Jews rather than 6 million.
You go to jail, right?
So, there's an orthodoxy.
There's a dogma, and you're not allowed to blaspheme.
So, yeah.
I know, I know exactly what that is.
Wait, so, question.
So, I kind of have heard this idea before.
Like, basically, there's a natural order in the world.
It would go God, government, men, women, children, essentially.
Some people think that government should be in that mix.
Some people don't.
I'm assuming you would say yes.
I think it goes God.
So, I would not say God is top and then government and then.
You know, church, and it's, I don't think it works like that.
I think there are three human governments, three human governments that God instituted.
They're God's idea and they're biblical.
And that is the home, the church, and the state.
And technically, you could say four and say self government.
Self government would be, you know, biblically supported by just the idea of the fruit of the spirit, which is self control, right?
That you can, you know, lead yourself in a healthy manner.
So you could say four, but for all intents and purposes, let's say three, if we're talking beyond just one person.
So family, church, and state, and they're not over one, it's not a hierarchy.
So they're on.
Oh, so you don't believe it's a hierarchy?
No, it's not a hierarchy.
It's an equal plane, like a Venn diagram.
And there are instances where there's an overlap in jurisdiction, where the civil government, with its God given duties and responsibilities, has a vested interest in something going on in the home.
For instance, if parents are abusing their children, physically abusing their children, then the state, it's like, well, this is just the sphere of our family.
This is the family government.
Well, I'm sorry, but you have lost your privileges and your rights.
And so the state might step in.
And if they're members, that family are members in a local church, the pastors should be stepping in.
So there are overlap examples that could be given, but you have three autonomous, so some overlap, but generally three autonomous spheres, which are all governments.
The family government, it has a head, it has authority.
The church government, it has leaders, it has authority.
And the state government, all three, not a hierarchy, but an equal plane and all under God.
So back to your question about theocracy, what I am, I hold to theocracy and I want it to be a Christian theocracy.
And so.
Yeah, yeah, that's it.
Uh huh.
So, so I hold your voice went up a little bit.
Does that mean no?
No, no, it's no, it's good.
It's good.
But, but as a Venn diagram, I wouldn't have the lines.
I would just draw three circles that overlap a little bit.
Do you see what I'm saying?
Okay.
You know what I mean?
But I don't know.
Me and Bob.
Oh, I get it.
The three ones.
Oh, like the Olympic triangle.
Okay.
Right.
Exactly.
So, but all that being said, back real quick, the theocracy thing.
So, you asked, are you you want the church and state to be connected?
No, that would be an ecclesiocracy.
So, an ecclesiocracy would be the church running the state, or the other way around, statism, where the state runs the church.
So, I believe biblically, I believe in the separation of church and state.
Here's what I don't believe in the separation of Christ and state.
Jesus is the head of the church, and I believe that Jesus is also the head of the state.
He's king of kings, like Lord of lords.
Have we ever stopped and asked the question who are these lords and kings that he's king over and Lord over?
So, a question would you then not let other people practice their religion in like this?
Did you?
Is it a theocracy?
Yeah, it's a theocracy.
Sorry, some of these words are new to me.
No, it's okay.
Yes, it is a theocracy.
So, you're saying you have a government that has explicitly acknowledged a God above it.
And of course, in my ideal society, that would be the triune God, the Christian God.
So, you would have a Christian nation with a Christian government.
I don't want to change the constitution for the record.
I would like to see an adoption, like Zambia has done recently, of a distinctly Christian preamble that doesn't just say God, but actually says the triune God, Christ Jesus.
So I'd like to see an adoption of a Christian preamble.
I'd like to see that.
The first 10 amendments, I think, are good.
I'd like to get back to authorial intent on the first that it's not polytheism.
Oh, we'll have a little bit of Buddhism and Hinduism and Islam and atheism and Talmudic Judaism and Christianity.
No.
It's multiple denominations of our common Lord.
I don't believe that the founders were thinking polytheism.
I think they were thinking, let's not be like England was and say that there's a national federal church.
And if you're a different denomination while still believing in the triune God, you're going to get thrown in jail or not be able to have a license to preach.
I think that was the idea of the First Amendment and freedom of worship.
And then all the amendments after the first 10, we could talk about.
Most of them I think are good.
The 19th, I'm not a huge fan.
So, you know, all that.
And then the rest of the Constitution, it follows the scripture.
I think it's beautiful.
Capitalism vs Socialism00:06:13
I think it's one of the best human documents ever made.
So, I'm not against the Constitution.
My problem is that America hasn't followed the Constitution since at least the 1960s.
It's a joke, and we should stop pretending.
So, all that being said, yes, I believe in theocracy.
And I think right now we have a theocracy.
Right now, we don't have Christian nationalism, we have Tranny nationalism.
But you're going to have some form of theocracy, some God, some dogma, some orthodoxy.
And stemming from that, you're going to have some form of blasphemy laws, things you can't say, right?
It's either going to be God's law or man's law.
It's going to be the triune God or some secular pagan perverse God.
It's going to be one or the other.
And I don't want this blending of church and state, ecclesiocracy, but I do want to recognize that there should never be a separation of Christ and state.
So the church and the state, two separate spheres, two separate governments that God established, and the family being the third.
But above all three of those human governments, The head of the husband and the family is Christ.
The head of the president or the king is Christ.
And the head of pastors and elders and bishops and deacons in the church is Christ.
That's not crazy.
England did that, America did that.
That's why the West has been so blessed.
We weren't blessed because we oppressed slaves.
We were blessed because we obeyed Jesus despite slavery.
And now that we are abdicating and apostatizing and turning our back on the Christian religion, everything is going to crap.
Yeah.
Well, and I had that thought like, who do men submit to if they don't submit to God?
Right.
It's kind of like, then it's what money?
But then I think that's kind of because when I started researching, like even you said, the Tran Tranny movement or whatever, it's all like money.
It's basically just a bunch of autistic kids and they put them on this like TikTok marketing or whatever.
And they just think it's the basically they sell that surgery as the answer to all of like you.
It's women mostly sign up for it.
Right.
And people think it's men, but it's actually women.
And it's a series of surgeries.
It's not just a one and done.
It's like, oh, we got to follow up.
There's an infection.
And you might go back.
It's like Michael Scott with The Office snip, snap, snip, snap.
Yeah, it's a life.
Yeah, yeah.
It's a lifetime.
You're a lifetime patient.
I've interviewed some of them and it's really gross.
It's terrible.
It's so sad.
It's gross, but it's tragic.
More than gross, it is so sad for those people.
Right.
Well, because they were telling me it's mostly autistic women that sign up.
So it's, yeah.
So it's exploited.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so they basically sell the, Like, because an autistic woman might not feel like she fits in.
So, or like the things that autistic women, because it's 80% women struggle with, they sell that as like the solution.
Is this surgery?
We'll solve this.
We'll solve that.
We'll solve that when really, you know.
But when I thought about it, I was thinking about the doctors that were performing them.
And I was thinking how really what they're submitting to is money.
Yeah.
Because if they submitted to God, they obviously wouldn't do that.
They couldn't do it.
And so it's like the society kind of goes.
So it almost, I kind of understood the left's, I barely ever say this, I never understand their point of view, but where they have criticisms of capitalism, putting the money at the top of everything.
Okay.
Oh, okay.
Crony capitalism, sure.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I kind of understood it because under capitalism, I guess you could argue that that should be legal because they're adults, they can do it, you know, but that's putting money above God.
Yeah.
It could be, but not inherently.
I don't think that capitalism inherently requires money to be an idol.
So remember, you know, scripture says, you know, that money is not the root of evil, but the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil.
And all that means is that there are multiple sins.
That can stem out of, they can derive from greed.
Money is not a sin.
The love of money, idolatry of money, greed is a sin.
So, greed, all that's being said in scriptures, that greed is a certain type of sin that can give birth to all other kinds of sin.
For instance, you can be greedy and want someone's wealth that causes you to covet, causes you to lie, causes you to steal, causes you to murder.
So, all these other sins can stem from that root sin of the love, not money itself, but the love of money.
So, capitalism, I do not believe inherently.
That it necessitates greed or that it necessitates idolatry.
I think that capitalism unchecked absolutely can cause problems.
And we've seen that.
But it beats the heck out of socialism, beats the heck out of communism.
And here's the thing socialism and communism, money is still God.
So don't be deceived.
Money is still God.
A poor person, this is something I always teach my congregation, you can be exceedingly poor and you can be much greedier.
Than a rich man, someone who's exceedingly rich.
You could be thinking about money, desiring money, wanting money, way more than the millionaire who just is going about his life seeking to steward his resources that God has sovereignly chosen to give him through his work and through human agency.
And he's seeking to steward them in a godly, moral way for the glory of God and the good of people and all those kinds of things.
And he has a billion dollars and is not a greedy man.
It doesn't necessarily, he could be, but it doesn't necessarily require him to be a greedy man.
And somebody else can have 10 bucks.
And be the greediest person on the planet.
And in socialism, everybody has about 10 bucks.
Socialism is very effective in one thing, making everyone poor, equally poor, but poor.
Well, yeah.
And even because even what you were saying about because just being in my industry, I know a lot of people that got a lot of money young and money can't buy peace of mind.
Right.
And so, like, a lot of times people think money will solve their problems, but it doesn't give you peace of mind, which, um, I don't know.
It's interesting to talk to, especially older people.
God's Law in the Marketplace00:07:13
They seem to have more peace of mind than the younger generation because we're all like addicted to smartphones and stuff.
Yeah.
I think you're right.
What do you think?
So, what is checked capitalism?
That's basically just when there's a law.
I can't remember the exact term you said, but it's basically like when a law goes against God's word or whatever, then they would just say no, basically.
Yeah.
So, in my ideal theonomic Christian nationalism society, that.
Then I, you know, so that's the last thing I'm post millennial.
That's eschatology.
Eschatology just means your view of the end times.
I, you know, most people are dispensationalist, premillennial.
They think, in other words, they think Jesus is going to come back next Thursday.
It's going to be really soon, especially when you have war in the Middle East, which you always do, but, you know, right now you especially do.
So it's like, oh, Jesus is coming back.
The third temple is coming back.
You don't think it's the end?
You don't think it's the end times?
No.
Nope.
I don't.
Oh, really?
It could be, but no.
Uh uh.
No.
So I'm post millennial.
So what that means is that I believe not, so Jesus said this, Matthew 16.
I will build my church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it.
So, a couple things.
Number one, he doesn't just say, I will sustain my church or I will see to it that my church survives as the church is on the ropes, you know, and Satan, you know, in hell is wailing on the church, but the church is, you know, barely hanging in there.
And then, you know, the all 12 rounds and saved by the bell and Jesus comes in with a rapture and tags the church out and then beats up the devil.
That's not my view.
And I don't think that's the biblical view.
I think that is a massive misinterpretation for the last, you know, Well, that movie's already been made.
It's called Left Behind.
Oh, it does.
It's been made several times.
It's been made with Nicolas Cage.
It's been made with, you know, so.
Anyways, so that's not my view.
My view is that Jesus says, not just I will sustain my church and see to it that it survives, I will build.
It will grow.
It will advance.
It will increase.
Isaiah of the increase of his government, there shall be no end.
Not just in the life to come, not just in a heavenly sense, but I believe this is what a post millennial believes.
I believe that Christ is emerging.
And will emerge victorious throughout human history, not just saved by the bell at the very end, but throughout human history, gradually and incrementally, progressively throughout human history through his body, which is the church, his body on earth, the church, his hands and feet.
And so the last 2,000 years, here's the thing with post millennialism, I think it will happen first because it has happened.
Things are not as bad as they were in the first century for Christians.
Not nearly.
We're not being thrown to lions.
Now, maybe that happens again.
So, just like stocks, there can be dips and there can be big dips.
And I think we're in a big dip.
I think we've been in a dip since the Enlightenment, to be honest.
So, I think we're in like a multiple century.
I mean, it's a heck of a dip.
So, but I think the general trajectory overall for these last 2,000 years is upward.
It's upward.
It's been the Christianization of the world.
The West is, there's never been anything like it.
There's never been anything like England, nothing like America.
We're talking about the most prosperous and benevolent.
Slavery was universal, virtually universal for all of human history.
And it still continues in some places and in some forms, but in large part has been abolished by Christians.
The woke don't like to admit that, but the Christians are the ones, everybody adhered to slavery.
The Christians are the ones who abolished slavery.
And so all these different things where there's been a remarkable change, right now we're in a big dip because the West has been rejecting God, rejecting our foundation.
But all that being said, I am post millennial.
So, when I say I'm a Christian nationalist, back to theocracy, theonomy, your question, these are things that I believe should happen and I actually believe will happen.
Now, that doesn't mean it's going to happen in our generation, but this is what I'm working towards for my children and my children's children.
I want to see them live in a Christian nation and I believe that it will happen.
Now, it may not be that nation may not be called the United States of America.
My nation could collapse if it continues to rebel against God.
Right now, I think we're under God's judgment, but I don't think we're under God's judgment, meaning that the end is right around the corner and that Jesus is going to come back next week.
I think we're under God's judgment.
And what we've seen for 2,000 years is that nations rise and nations fall.
God exalts, you know, so the scripture says the nation that exalts Yahweh will be exalted.
The nation that exalts Yahweh will be blessed by the Lord.
And so, I think that over the course of human history, you see the rise and fall of empires and the rise and fall of nations.
And so, all that being said, with capitalism or with anything else, yeah, you want God's law.
It's not whether but which.
You're going to have laws, you're going to have rules, things are going to be permissible, other things are going to be off limits and wrong.
And so, yeah, why wouldn't we go with God's laws?
I think God's laws are best.
And so, you're looking at the Old Testament and the New, and you're saying, this is what God has said to his people, Israel.
This is not just for Israel, but all people in all places.
So here's one blue laws.
Blue laws, that means Sabbath laws.
You know, in the United States and in England, there were a lot of things you could not do, at least in the past and even recent past, on the Lord's Day, on the Sabbath.
Well, how does that affect capitalism?
Well, one of the reasons why little guys continue to just get destroyed, small mom and pop businesses, is that you cannot compete with bohemians, you know, with Leviathans like Amazon.
You know, House Bezos, you know, and House Gates, and, you know, these things.
And part of the reason is because they never sleep.
They've got all these worker bees and all these different things.
It's every second of every minute, of every hour, of every day.
It's 247, 365 days a year.
But to say, even online, that the day of the Lord, the first day of the week, the day that Christ rose from the dead, shall be the Christian Sabbath, as we have in our confessions and our creeds for 2,000 years, this is what Christianity has held and the West held.
And they didn't just do it privately in churches, it was society.
It was the whole nation.
You will not buy and sell on the Lord's day.
Now, that doesn't mean mandated church attendance.
It doesn't mean that if you don't go to church, you go to the gallows.
But it does mean the marketplace is closed.
And if somebody in the marketplace chooses to buy and sell, that there will be some kind of penalty.
There will be a fine or something like that.
You're going to close the marketplace.
Now, one of the things that happens practically, you do that because you want to honor the Lord.
But in honoring the Lord, his laws aren't just morally right, but they're beneficial and good.
So the things that God says, hey, this is the right way to live.
It's also not just bringing him glory, but good for people.
And one of the implications of a law like that is that these Leviathan, behemoth institutions and companies would level the playing field for the mom and pop that one day a week, everybody's got to stop business.
And it would give more of a fighting chance to the smaller business trying to grow.
So that's just one example of God's law and how it would work in the realm of capitalism, which is what you asked.
Hope for a Dark Future00:15:24
So, how do you, you mentioned earlier in the interview that you're like hopeful for the future.
Yeah.
I'm curious why, because when I look at the numbers, like I look at the birth rate, the general trend of society to the left, the amount of people that like practice religion, like all of the stats that I would even like, crime is going through the roof now.
Yeah.
I don't see much to be like, wow, it's going to, I guess maybe it can't get that much worse, you know?
Oh, it can.
No.
It can, unfortunately.
But at least in my lifetime, I've really only seen things get worse.
Like it's really weird because I'm 27.
So when I was younger, like even just the quality of like, I see more homeless people everywhere, I see more crime everywhere.
I'm from a family of 10.
You don't really see that anymore.
So what makes you like hopeful for the future?
Great question.
Yeah.
So I absolutely think things can get worse.
But I think that the overarching trajectory will be better.
So that throws people off.
You know, they'd be like, Are you just naive?
Do you have your head in the sand?
Did you take the blue pill?
You know, and it's like, No, no, I took the red pill.
But by the grace of God and through the scripture in the Christian faith, I followed the red pill with the white pill.
And that would be probably one of my strongest encouragements to you and to a ton of people who listen to podcasts like yours and mine in the red pill kind of world we don't need to be like Theoden, right?
The ruler of the Rohinians, you know, and the Lord of the Rings, you know, the two towers.
And, you know, he's like completely overcome by Saruman, the wizard, and he's just like lifeless.
There's no blood in his veins.
He's a Corpse just barely sitting there, you know, and behind the scenes, you've got Saruman, the wicked wizard, pulling the strings and making him say this and making him say that.
And then finally, he like comes back to his senses.
You know, Gandalf, you know, frees him from the spell.
He comes back to his senses, but then he's red pilled, but he black pills, you know, and it's just like there's no hope.
Everything is lost.
And then, you know, Aragorn, he, you know, is encouraging him, saying, no, no, no.
And then finally, you know, the big white pill is, okay, so maybe we all die.
But, you know, if we do, the horn and, you know, and Rohan will sound once more.
We will ride out to meet them.
We're going to go down fighting.
Like, we're going to go to war.
We're going to give it everything we got.
And then Gandalf, you know, comes over in the last minute, you know, the mountain with shining light, you know, and reinforcements, and they win.
They actually win against all odds.
So, first, things can get worse.
But in the big picture, I believe things are going to get worse.
I think they're probably, if I had to guess, going to get significantly worse.
I'm not excited about that because I have kids.
And I'm deeply, as a father, deeply concerned for my children.
And they may have to move.
And so already I'm doing my best to store up wealth.
The proverbs say a wise man leaves an inheritance for his children's children.
So a good Christian man seeks to plan for the financial well being of at least two generations after him, all the way to his grandchildren.
My kids may have to move to some other place.
Maybe Elon can get them to Mars, or maybe they go to Zambia for a little while or whatever.
Texas might secede.
Yeah, Texas may secede.
So that would be awesome.
But my point is, things could get worse.
I would move there if they seceded.
Yep.
Amen.
So things might get worse in the short run.
And when I say the short run, I don't mean two months.
I mean, it could be, you know, it could be 70 years, you know.
But in the long run, here's what I believe from the scripture I will build my church.
Jesus says that, Matthew 16, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it.
So, one, he's not just sustaining the church, it's growing.
Secondly, this is the other part I didn't get to the gates of hell will not prevail against it.
The gates of hell are not offensive weaponry.
It's not artillery.
The gates of hell are the defensive measures, not of the church, but of hell.
Hell's on the defense.
Hell is on the ropes.
And Jesus Christ, head of the church, is using his church on earth as his battering ram.
And he is going to knock down the gates of hell.
And it's not going to win.
So, worst case scenario, this is how I see it.
Worst case scenario, the West completely falls.
And good riddance, we deserve it under God's judgment because we have completely rebelled against God.
The West falls, but the whole world won't.
Uganda and Zambia, and these places that right now, in our hubris and our pride, we laugh at.
We say, oh, that's so dumb.
You know, these primitive third world, you know, whatever.
But the developing world that is adopting Christian preambles to their constitution, that is saying, yeah, we're not going to stand for perversion, and that is actually having Christian laws and these kinds of things, and we say, oh my gosh, it's so archaic and it's so extreme and I can't believe it and blah, blah, blah.
We're going to continue to be under God's judgment as we continue to be proud and perverse.
And rebellious.
And God will do what He has done for two thousand.
It's not new.
Ecclesiastes says there's nothing new under the sun.
What's been done before will be done again.
We think it's new because every generation thinks that their generation's unique and new.
Sure, the internet is new.
I'll give you that.
Social media is new.
But with the Reformation, what happened with Catholicism, you know, and Luther and all, it's because God tends to do this.
He teams up a profound Reformation in culture with innovation in technology.
So the Gutenberg printing press was radical, like the internet for its time.
And so the Gutenberg printing press was at the same time as a little guy named Martin Luther.
And the Catholic Church at the time, even if you're Catholic now, you got to admit that the Catholic Church at the time selling indulgences, making people pay money to get their loved ones out of purgatory, it was not the bright and shining moment.
You're not supposed to sell forgiveness.
You're not supposed to sell forgiveness.
So it was not the brightest moment for Roman Catholicism.
And my point is so here's this guy, and he disrupts this ironclad institution that was impenetrable.
I mean, they had a monopoly on society, wealth, the truth, everything.
But God brings one guy with reformation and in the realm of technology, innovation.
And those two things happen simultaneously.
I think that what we're experiencing, and it's exactly, it's cool, it's exactly 500 years later.
Exactly 500 years later from the Reformation, I think that we are experiencing another Reformation teamed up once again with an innovation.
And at first, this is what happens things always get messier first.
So with the dawn of the internet and podcasting and videos and social media, Well, what you get is you get three million different opinions from the peanut gallery, you, me, and everybody else.
But eventually, this is what you also get you get the crumbling of corrupt institutions that before were undefeated, they could not be taken down.
And now Tucker can go with Elon on Twitter, one guy, and mop the floor with Fox.
Yeah.
And so, my point is, it's going to take time, but the truth is going to come out.
And in a worst case scenario, the West will fall.
But the rest of the world will look at that and say, what did they do that ended so poorly?
Oh, they hated God.
They love perversion.
I guess what makes me a little bit more pessimistic is I'm in London.
So I deal with a lot of people that are like from, I don't know anyone from Zambia in particular, but more of the countries that are supposedly like more traditional.
And like they kind of complain about the same problems that we do.
Um, so like I know, I know in Africa, Zambia, that's in Africa, yeah.
I know they're, um, like they have issues with like paternity fraud.
A lot of them, I know their STD rates are through the roof.
I know in Asia, um, their childless women are through the roof.
Um, they're like birth rates at 0.5 or 0.6, I think, in South Korea.
So, uh, well, South Korea, that would make sense.
Go ahead, sorry, yeah, yeah.
In Eastern Europe, um, uh, I don't know if it's still the case, but I know their abortion rate was pretty high, so it seemed to be like.
They all have very similar problems to the West.
And one thing I learned when I came to England was our problems weren't as unique in the West as I thought.
Really, I just see the other countries as like 10, 20 years behind.
Yeah.
Well, agree to disagree.
You may be right.
But like South Korea, for instance, I see them as the Asian wing of the West.
I understand.
The same as Israel.
Israel is Western.
Japan is Western.
So when I think of non Western Asian countries, I'm not thinking of Japan or South Korea.
And when I think of Africa, I don't think that that's true of Africa.
So, certainly, they don't have some of the medical technology and advancements that we do in the West.
And so, there are certain diseases that have not been fully eradicated, although things have massively improved over recent decades for the whole world, including Africa.
But they're obviously a lag when it comes to medical advancement and those kinds of things.
But in terms of morality, I don't think that African nations like Zambia or Uganda, I don't think that they're merely 20 years lagging behind the West.
I think that they are, I know that they are.
I've seen videos and I also, there are some faithful ministers like Conrad Mbewe and Vodi Bakum who are in Zambia starting, you know, they've been working on a seminary there and, you know, planting churches and doing really good work.
And, you know, and I've spoken with them.
And Zambia is hopeful.
There are problems in Zambia, to be sure.
But Zambia is hopeful.
And they're not just 20 years, you know, they're not your typical Western conservative who is, whatever victory the Libs experienced 20 years ago, we're going to conserve that.
You know, no, these African nations.
Are, you know, and places in South America as well, they're saying they're laughing at us.
And that's good.
That's encouraging that they're, you know, they're laughing at the West with its, with sodomy, transgenderism, abortion.
Oh, yeah.
No, the trans stuff will never go there.
That'll never.
But I just met like with more the like breakdown of like, like women, like women are less traditional there.
It's like I'm getting the same because I interview about mostly like relationships, like that sort of stuff.
Okay.
So it's just we get a lot of people that are from not Zambia.
I will say disclaimer, I don't know anyone.
Is it South Africa?
Because that would make sense if it was South Africa.
South Africa, Zimbabwe, Nigeria, Kenya.
So it's kind of like I'm finding a lot of similar trends.
I'm sure you're right.
I have no reason to discount that.
I think it's probably because, and I think this is what you're saying, because of the West influence, right?
So everybody wants to be, Americans are cool.
You know, and England is not quite as cool as America.
We became cooler about, I believe, in 1776.
But, you know, but all that being said, you know, that I think, yeah, that most of the world looks to us as an influence and we're a terrible influence currently.
But I don't think that that's going to continue to be the trajectory because things, here's my overarching point.
If we pan out, get the 30,000 foot view, right?
And you're doing this, you're looking at the world.
I would just add one more element.
Don't just look at the whole world instead of One nation, but also look at the whole timeline and not just one time period.
Over the last 2,000 years, it is incredible what God has done all around the world.
Life is better.
It is.
It's true.
Recently, things have, you know, again, we're being stupid right now and making things pretty bad.
And sadly, I think we could make it even worse.
But on the whole, I mean, you're talking about lifespans.
Almost doubling for the vast majority of the world.
You talk about slavery, you talk about war, pirates on the open sea, and being able to do free trade.
You talk about prosperity and markets.
And then, of course, for me, coming from a Christian perspective, the advancement of the Christian religion.
And right now, the Christian religion is not in its prime.
Right now, it's not looking great.
But overall, I mean, the math is real simple.
Jesus started with 12.
And now we got a couple billion.
I feel like we're heading the right direction.
So you think it'll just go down for maybe like 50 years, but then the overall trend will be up.
We're just in debt.
And I wouldn't put money on the 50 years.
It could go down for 250 years, or it could go down for five years, and we could have a great revival.
But that's what we've seen throughout human history in the West and in other places.
I mean, I'm an American, a Christian reformed American, a Calvinist.
So I think of the Great Awakenings and George Whitefield and going up and down the coast and thousands and thousands of people coming to Christ.
I think of the Puritans and the Covenanters.
I think of New Hampshire and they had covenants with the triune God.
This is before 1776, and individual colonies, I think it was 10 out of the 13 colonies, expressly called themselves Christian colonies and had a covenant with the triune God.
Christian laws on the books.
We're not talking about the hypothetical of something maybe one day happening.
We're talking about the possibility of what has already happened in history happening again.
And the whole idea of things getting worse and worse and worse.
I feel like only strengthens my point because I think one of the ways that people repent is by having to take their own medicine, by having to lie in the bed that they've been making for themselves.
Like one of the most compelling things.
So, the prodigal son, very famous parable that Jesus.
Oh, yeah.
I love that one.
You know, beautiful.
And so it says he's off in a distant land and a famine hits, right?
So he's rebelled against his father.
He's going, he spends all his money on loose living.
So, it turns out, you know, it's not just that girls can be licentious, but here's a dude being licentious as well.
And he spends all of his money.
And then he's in a distant land.
A famine hits.
It's hard times.
He's got nothing left.
He hires himself out to be a servant of a farmer to feed pigs.
And he's, you know, things are bad when it says he's looking at the pods, the pig food, and says, that looks pretty good.
And then it literally, you know, so he's at the end of his rope, bottom of the barrel.
And then it says, in that moment, it says, and no one gave him anything.
And then the next words in the text are, and then he came to his senses.
And he said to himself, the servants in my father's house have it better than I.
Consequences of Polarization00:02:14
I should repent.
I should go back.
And so, my point is the worst thing I think that could have happened for this young, stupid man in that moment is if a member of the father's house, in the name of empathy, unbridled empathy, had gone to find this young, prodigal son and give him a handout.
The thing that got him to repent and go back to the father and apologize and express it was the consequence.
And the West, I think that we're just getting started with the consequence.
And I think as we experience the consequence more and more and more, as the chickens come home to roost for transgenderism, I mean, you're talking about people, we've barely begun to scratch the surface of, you're talking about tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people who in the next couple of decades, 10, 20 years, are going to be furious.
We haven't even seen the consequences of COVID yet.
We haven't seen the consequences of the vaccine yet.
There's so many things that are going to be coming back.
To roost, and people are going to be like, Oh my goodness, what did we do?
I did a poll on Twitter asking how many people, if you personally knew someone that died of COVID or like not of COVID, of the vaccine, right?
And 40% of people, and I think this got over like 10,000 votes, so it was like a decent, yeah, yeah, 40% of people know someone that died from the vaccine, so it kind of tells you, I mean, that they think it's not like a scientific thing, right?
But still, that's something.
So, whether it's indoctrination of children in state schools, whether it's abortion, which I believe is the murder of children in the womb, whether it's transgenderism, whether it's LGBT, LMNOP, the Rainbow Jihad, whatever it is, in all those ways,
through COVID, through medical tyranny, through state tyranny, through lies of legacy media that are already crumbling around us, in every single way, every major institution in the West, the state, the media, medical, The family, sadly, the church, the church, sadly, is no exception.
Every single one of them has chopped off the limb that they were sitting on.
They've completely discredited themselves, proven their corruption, and the proof keeps coming.
The receipts keep coming, and we're going to get bigger receipts.
The Verdict on Tyranny00:02:29
It's not going to tail off, it's going to snowball and speed up.
And as that happens, and people experience the consequences of polarization, potential civil war, potential World War III right now, with all these different things, yeah, the verdict is still out, but it is.
It is coming in.
And I think that the overarching verdict when it's all said and done is going to be this.
You rebel against God, you find out.
So, what would be your prescription if you were in charge tomorrow?
What would you do?
National repentance.
I believe that nations, particularly in the West, yeah, if I was in charge, if I was president, one of my friends.
I could see you running.
You kind of have that way about you.
Have you ever thought about running?
For president?
No.
I don't know.
Just like for some political office.
I could see it actually.
That would be cool.
Maybe.
I don't know.
That's something to pray about.
Consider.
Thank you.
That's encouraging.
But yeah, if I was president for, you know, and what a glorious three days that would be, a friend of mine, Doug Wilson, always makes that joke, you know, it would only last probably for three days and then I would be probably, you know, banished or exiled or assassinated or something.
But in that, you know, whatever, hypothetical situation, I would call the whole nation, like it would be a national.
A national repentance.
So we would come.
Now, in our current system, there would be difficulty.
Here's another thing this doesn't go over well, but I'm not the biggest fan of democracy.
I like a constitutional republic, a representative republic.
That's back to the 19th Amendment.
It's not just, oh, I don't think women should vote because they're not geared that way.
It's also because I believe in representative government.
Right now, in my county and in my state and my nation, there's a ton of people who are representing me, whether I like it or not.
That's representative government.
That's the way things work.
So it wasn't that women didn't have a vote.
Women always had a vote by virtue of their husband or their fathers, as a wife or a daughter, through the household vote.
One of the things the 19th Amendment did was it split the household.
It turned the household against itself, going from the molecular model, the household being the smallest building block of society, to individuals.
And so, all that being said, if I was in charge and it was a monarchy and I was king for a day, not just president, I would say we need to fast and pray like the king of Nineveh when he heard the preaching of Jonah, the judgment.
Swift Punitive Justice00:03:55
Was upon the city of Nineveh.
We need to fast and pray.
Nobody's going to eat.
No one's going to drink.
We are going to pray.
We're going to wear sackcloth and ashes.
We're going to get Congress or whoever, Parliament, whatever the body, we're going to get them together.
We're going to write up a Christian preamble in it.
We're going to declare allegiance to the triune God, to Jesus as King of all kings, King of me and King of this nation.
We are going to make God's law.
The Bible will be the law of the land.
It's going to be, it's not simple, it's complicated through courts and the judicial system.
It's going to have to be prudently applied.
So, for instance, you must have one Old Testament law.
You have to have a parapet, right?
It's a border, it's a balcony.
Like, if you have a balcony, you got to have railing on your roof for Old Testament Israel.
But why?
Well, in their culture, people slept on top of the roof.
They don't have HVAC, AC.
During the summer months, they would sleep on top of the roof because it would be cool and there'd be a breeze.
Now, here's the way they enforce it they didn't have police going around and writing fines if you didn't have this border around your roof.
Instead, what would happen is it was punitive.
Not preventative, right?
Not like a minority report with Tom Cruise where you try to see the future, who's going to commit a crime, and you over police everything like Australia, New Zealand.
No, it's punitive.
The way that you get justice is that when injustice is done, the penalty is swift and severe.
Swift and severe.
So if you don't have a border around your roof, you don't get penalized.
But if somebody rolls off your roof and dies, it's proportional, it's swift, it's just, it's eye for eye, tooth for tooth, life for life.
They fall off and they die, you get the death penalty.
And publicly, you're going to be stoned and put to death.
And even stoning, it wasn't for the sake of being brutal.
It wasn't brutality.
The point of stoning was to say that you have sinned against all society.
And so all society will have a hand in justly punishing you.
All society.
And one of the things that Old Testament scripture, another law was you shall not pity the rich, show favoritism to the rich, nor shall you pity the poor.
Justice is blind, right?
If you have to figure out what color the cop is and the alleged perpetrator before you can decide what's just, You're not doing justice, right?
If it's not proportional, this person commits murder and they get a slap on the wrist, it's not justice.
If it's delayed and happens 20 years later, it's not just.
It's swift, unbiased, proportional, all these things.
And it's reactive, punitive, not preventative, where you have this massive police force, which means less taxes because the police force costs a lot of money to employ.
But the punitive, a gallows, is cheap.
So, all those things being said, my point is back to the roof border thing, you take that biblical case law, you apply it in 2023 in America or England.
What does that mean?
You have to have a board around your roof?
No.
But what it means is you must esteem life.
It stems from the sixth commandment thou shalt not murder.
So it might look like speed limits on a highway.
It might look like seat belts.
It might look like this.
It might look like that.
And then how do you enforce it?
Well, like the Autobahn, right?
You don't have all these regulations.
But what you do is if someone does cause harm to someone else and they were going above the suggested speed limit, and it's proven they were going above the suggested speed limit, You don't have a million cops going around giving speeding tickets.
But if they get in a wreck going above the suggested speeding limit, so it was their fault and they kill someone and they survive themselves to the gallop.
And it's public, it's on the county courthouse.
It's the whole society has a vested interest, not because we're morbid, not because we're sadistic, but because justice belongs to the community and it must, we all need to be committed to carrying it out.
So, all that kind of stuff, the Bible would be the law of the land through judicial system, using prudence.
Privatized Lordship of Jesus00:03:26
And strategy and wisdom of how to actually apply that in our time, our place, our technology, our cultures, but still the general equity, the general transcendent principles of biblical law.
Three days of fasting and prayer, adopting a Christian preamble, and I'd be fired by the end of the week, but it'd be great.
What do you do over at Right Response Ministries?
Podcast.
So, my day job is I'm a local pastor.
So, I pastor Covenant Bible Church in Central Texas, north of Austin.
And then beyond that, you know, and everything that I do as a husband and a father, right response ministries.
I'm trying to, because I feel called, and maybe not, we'll see what God does.
But so far, he's blessed it.
But I feel called to be on just my local church.
My local church is my priority, but I think the church kind of sucks right now.
And so I'm, you know, I'm trying to help out.
And so instead of just preaching sermons in my church, I'm hosting, you know, weekly podcasts.
And like yourself, you know, I have guests come on, guys that I think are also doing a similar, you know, good job and actually have a spine, you know, actually have, you know, some courage and are willing to, you know, say, yeah, feminism is demonic and it's bad.
You know, and let's call it what it is, you know, or this or that.
And so, you know, so doing that, doing podcasts, getting my sermons beyond just the local church, trying to write a book from time to time, or, um, and holding a conference.
We try to hold an annual conference.
So I got a conference coming up in March that's this exact what we're talking about it's theonomy and post millennialism, it's Christian nations, and, uh, gotten a lot of pushback.
A lot of people are saying, you know, Christians, of course, it's always Christians saying, this is a terrible conference.
This is worldly.
Jesus said, my kingdom is not of this world, which is so silly.
I was, you know, Jesus did not say his kingdom was not in the world, but not of the world.
What he's saying is that the power and authority for his kingdom is derived from another source.
It is a heavenly power greater than the world.
But he's not saying that he doesn't care about his kingdom being in the world, which is precisely why when Jesus taught us to pray, he said, Pray, thy kingdom come to this world.
Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth, not just in the 17th dimension, but on earth as it is in heaven.
So these are basic things that Christians understood.
Christians understood the civil realm.
Until again, very recently, really since World War II, the post war consensus has been terrible.
Wait, why is the conference considered worldly?
Like they don't like conferences or just.
Because we're saying that politics matter.
We're saying that culture matters.
We're saying that markets matter, that starting bids.
The whole idea.
So the conference, the title is Blueprints for Christendom 2.0.
So most Christians today, especially in the Protestant realm, they're pietists, meaning everything, the only thing of any value or worth at all is the spiritual.
The unseen, right?
So it's all inward.
It's a privatized lordship of Jesus.
Instead of Jesus being Lord of lords and King of kings, Lord of all, Jesus is Lord of my cute, precious, private, emphasis on private heart.
Jesus is Lord of my heart.
Instead of, no, Jesus is Lord of all.
And so we're talking about the lordship of Christ over every aspect of life, not just our private heart and not just our private family with our marriage and our parenting.
You know, Christians will do, here's a parenting conference, here's another parenting conference.
Hey, our 17th parenting conference is coming up.
Don't miss it.
Christ or Chaos Ahead00:07:38
But that's all it is.
It's your private devotions.
You snap a picture of your coffee mug and your Bible and post it on Instagram.
So, Jesus' Lordship is in my 15 minute private quiet time in the morning.
And it's maybe beyond that, it's in our private home.
And we're saying, no, no, no, no.
Jesus is king of nations.
He's king of markets.
He's king of media.
He's king of medicine.
He's king of everything.
It will be done his way.
You have two choices Christ or chaos.
So, blueprints for Christendom 2.0.
Not Christianity 2.0.
It's the same faith once and for all passed down to the saints.
The Christian faith, the historic creedal Christian faith.
Christendom 2.0.
So think Constantine, King Alfred.
We're saying, you know what, Christendom, we've been lied to.
The Crusades.
So here's one God's Battalions.
It's the name of a book by Rodney Stark.
He gives a history of the Crusades.
Turns out, like most things, we've been lied to about the history.
That doesn't mean it's all perfect, but there were actually some really good reasons.
For the Christians and their side and their battle in the Crusades against the Muslims at every level.
I've heard that though.
I haven't studied it myself, but I've heard that it's like they always rewrite history the way they want.
The victors get to rewrite history.
We just need to know what time it is.
Right now, the victors are the pagans, the godless pagans, leftists, socialists, communists, globalists.
They're the victors, and the victors get to indoctrinate the society.
They're the ones who get to rewrite history, and that's what we've seen.
And so, we just need to be asking questions.
We need to go back and think what did our ancestors do?
The overarching thing that's trying to be done right now, the play, is to try to get.
Young Western civilization to hate its heritage.
To say that our heritage was just a bunch of slave owners and, you know, the Spanish Crusades and colonizers.
And it's like.
Oh, I've gotten that one before.
Right.
But it's like, okay, so Great Britain colonizes India.
And, you know, and again, everybody's a sinner.
So none of it is perfect.
But it's like, I'm sorry.
So we're going to go into India and say.
So I've been told I'm the colonizer, I guess.
Yeah.
So, but think about that.
You go into India and you say, I'm sorry, you can't bury your.
Your wife alive with a husband when he dies.
Sorry to colonize you.
Sorry.
Is that an inconvenience?
Or you come to the Americas and you say, okay, guys, there's a few things that we need to change.
Number one, let's stop eating each other.
Sorry.
Sorry to be an oppressor.
Yeah.
You know, the Karanka.
Yeah, exactly.
All that becomes the footnote of history.
The Aztec, right?
Didn't they like sacrifice the Aztec, Mayans, Karankawa Indians, where I'm at in Texas?
They were cannibals.
Like, I mean, it was terrible.
Well, and most of them died because of disease anyway.
Right, that's right.
It wasn't even close to gunfire, but disease.
And even with a gunfire, there were, again, problems on both sides.
So, anyways, all that being said, the point is this Christendom, so not Christianity 2.0, the one Christian faith, Orthodox Christian faith.
But Christendom is the idea of Christianity in its outward expression in every realm of society.
That's Christendom.
And so, what we're saying is, Christendom was not a bad idea, there were problems.
But we shouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
There are features and there are bugs.
And so, what we're saying is, blueprints, the title of the conference, Blueprints for Christendom 2.0, is we're saying we want to get back to Christendom.
All of Christ for all of life.
It will either have Christ or chaos.
We want Christianity to be public in the public realm, nationally, politically, culturally, everything.
But we'd like it to be Christendom 2.0, meaning all the features of Christendom 1.0.
But yeah, I think we can do better.
Let's try to get rid of some of the bugs.
So, the things that actually were, not just blatant lies and slander, but in revisionist history, but things that actually were a problem, whether it be King Alfred or whether it be Constantine or whether it be the Crusades or whether it be this or whether it be that, the things that really objectively were problems.
Here's the question implicitly that's begged Why were they problems?
By what standard?
Were they problems because God's word would say that they were immoral or because we just say they're immoral?
And if they're actually problems, objective problems, not by our fluctuating moral standard, but by God's immutable standard, then guess what?
We need to Christian nationalism even harder, not less, right?
If we did, so if slavery was so bad, by whose standard was it bad?
And if it's bad, objectively, universally bad, then it's only bad because of God's standard, which means we need more God, not less.
It's simple.
What's your book about?
Is that what your book's about?
Yeah, well, the book is why I left California.
So the book is saying, I think that one of the ways we.
Are you a Californian?
No, I was born and raised in Texas, but I moved there for 10 years and planted a church.
Oh, okay.
So, I came back for a host of reasons, and it's a long conversation.
But basically, the book is just saying I think one of the ways that we win, instead of the fight or flight reflex, I'm saying advocating for a third strategy of fight by flight.
That one of the ways that we can fight against leftists, you know, and pagans and, you know, God hating society is places that are really blue, really progressive, really rebellious towards the principles of scripture.
Vote with your feet, get out of Dodge, stop propping it up.
I think one of the reasons that California has, you know, Has the illusion of being able to last as long as it has is because the salt of the earth props it up.
Statistically, there are 42 million in California, total population, 16 million are professing Christians.
If they left and just said to Governor Gavin Newsom, that's enough, we're out, California would actually have to, like the prodigal son, I use that as an example, he would have to deal with the consequences of his godless policy, and California would crumble in a fortnight.
And, uh, yeah.
And, you know, and then if it's, and that's, I think, you know, so we, you asked me earlier, like, how do, how am I hopeful?
And I gave you kind of the global scale of nations.
But, you know, as it pertains to, you know, my country, um, I think you could have the, the miners scale, uh, with states that, like, if people continue, and that's, that's happening.
That trend doesn't look like it's going away anytime soon.
So if people continue to vote with their feet and they're like, yeah, this place, you've lost your minds.
We're leaving California.
We're leaving New York.
And we're moving to Texas.
And what, what'll happen is economically, culturally, all those things, um, Red states will get redder, right?
And they'll get better.
They'll increase with wealth and prosperity and all those kinds of things.
And blue states will get worse and worse and worse.
And that right there will be used, I think, as an evidence to people saying, okay, so one set of systems works, another one doesn't.
Oh, and this one, what a coincidence.
This one is more conservative and aligns more with Christian values.
And whether we're able to do that in 50 years or even five, 15 years with states at a micro level, Or whether that takes 250 years with all the way things getting so bad that people are going to the gulags at a national, international level.
But one way or another, I think that system, that history will prove who's right.
And God's right.
You want to be on the right side of history, believe the Bible.
Because history gets revised every 50, 60 years.
Modesty for Men and Women00:10:41
So all you have to do is, so right now, people think I'm crazy, but all I have to do is say, I'm a theonomist, I'm a Christian nationalist, I'm patriarchal.
And I'm not trying to be offensive.
I'm not going out of my way to jab and poke.
But this is what I believe.
Here's my reasons for believing it.
I'm not just trying to be mean, but the Bible says it.
I think it lends towards the glory of God and the good of people, including women, including children, including this, including that.
And you know what I have to do to prove that I'm right?
I need to just sit and wait for about 15 years.
That's all.
All I have to do is just wait.
And the thing is, the stuff they're pushing is very confusing.
Like it's very, it doesn't like they'll act like they're pro women, pro minorities.
Pro all this stuff, but it's very confusing to like grow up in a society that's telling us like men are women, women are men.
Like, because I'm like the youngest millennial.
So I like grew up, I feel like when there was like peak woke, like was during my teenage years, like I see it kind of like when Caitlyn Jenner got that award.
Right.
You remember, you remember like that.
I remember, I remember like being in school and everyone talking about it's very confusing, like growing up when it's like even the institutions you go to are telling you the wrong thing.
Right.
Well, yeah, transgenderism is really, in some sense, it could be defined as this.
It could be defined as the white man's secret weapon to still find himself in power.
So it's funny with all the wokeness and like white people and white men are oppressive and all this kind of stuff.
But then you throw in transgenderism, and then what do you get?
Well, at the end of the day, you get a white male winning Woman of the Year award, you know, or you get a white guy who's more oppressed now than this minority person.
Like at the At the end of the day, transgenderism carved out a vehicle for the white man to still find his way on top.
And so it's a bit ironic.
Well, where can the people find you?
They can go to Right Response Ministries on YouTube.
That's where most people follow us.
We don't have 2 million subscribers, Pearl, but I like to think we're on our way.
We've got about 75,000.
So they can go to YouTube.
You guys are doing well.
You're doing well.
I appreciate it.
That's where they can find you.
Where is your?
Can I go to your church next time I'm in Texas?
Absolutely.
Yeah, we would love to have you.
And the nice thing about you visiting our church is I can expect that you'll dress modestly.
I've seen you on Twitter.
Oh, you've seen my Twitter feed.
Yeah, your Twitter feed.
I was like, surely, surely she cares about modesty.
So, no, I would love for you to come and attend our church.
And it's called Covenant Bible Church.
Yeah, well, and I'm not even, okay, the modesty thing, I'll tell you.
Go ahead.
Because sometimes I'm like, even, I'm not even, I was an athlete.
We had very short stuff.
Growing up, I'm not even claiming like I'm perfect, but I'm like, look at there's sometimes where we look so stupid as women and nobody tells us.
And I'm like, we'll have these like wives and mothers dressed half naked.
I'm like, this just looks now.
Look, I'm not even saying it's okay for the younger women, it's not, but I'm like, it just looks especially stupid when you're over.
Like, it's like you're 40 years old, lady.
You've had like half a century to figure this out.
No, absolutely.
And the Bible talks about that, that a woman.
Who's beautiful but doesn't exercise modesty is like a gold ring in the snout of a pig, right?
That it's like pearls before swine, you know, or giving what is holy to dogs.
But in this case, the actual verbiage that's used applied to modesty is a gold ring.
So something of precious worth, but just wasted.
And, you know, so even if it's a young woman, she should dress modestly.
And people, you know, the pushback is always like, well, what about the men?
And that's the whole problem with our society, in my opinion.
Yeah.
Is that again, we make every exception the rule, every exception the norm, every footnote the headline.
Here's the deal men should be modest too.
And there are some men who are going to the gym shirtless and blah, blah, blah, whatever.
But can we just admit for a second that right now, the big problem in the West is not abusive patriarchy, but rampant feminism?
It is not immodest men, but immodest women.
Like we just, I think you have to be able to say, The standard is transcendent and it applies across the board, young, old, guy, girl.
But you have to be able to say, in your time and place, in your moment in history, you have to be able to say, this is a unique problem.
Right now, the unique problem that we have is not a bunch of men being patriarchal tyrants.
I think that that has been a problem at times past.
Now, even that I think is revisionist history and wasn't quite as bad as people make it sound.
There have been problems like that.
Right now, the problem is not that men have all their wives on leashes.
And why don't men have a right to go out and not be bombarded with women's bodies?
You know, because there are men that actually want to be faithful and loyal to their wives.
And you guys can't go anywhere without yoga pants, booty shorts, and these half naked chicks.
It's like, don't they have a right to go out in public and not see you butt naked?
Great point.
And then what about children?
Like, children need to witness this now.
This is getting embarrassing.
Yeah, for a lot of families, if you are a Christian family, what it means is it means that you just.
These days, you just do a lot less in public.
You know, my family and I, we have places that we go, and, you know, a lot of what the children do, you know, is we, you know, we have places like there's a farm that we like going to.
You know, it's called Sweet Eats Farm, and they have a petting zoo, and the kids get to ride the horses.
And, you know, and our kids, again, they're itty bitty, which is awesome.
They're super, super cute.
And so we have a blast.
But most of it is hanging out with like minded people that we trust who are part of our church community.
So my kids are having a blast.
Like every day of the week, my wife right now is on a play date with the kids with another woman in the church, and they're doing fun stuff.
They've got like a bounce house inside because it's cold right now, and they're jumping off the walls and Christmas decorations everywhere.
So I don't want to sit here and play the world's smallest violin.
You can do it.
And I think that's, again, that's just what I said earlier.
I want to white pill Christians and conservatives, and say, okay, the red pill, you got to take it.
You can't put your head in the sand.
Things are tough, they are tough.
But you can do it.
You can do it.
A lot of women are Jezebel.
They suck.
But by the grace of God, there are some women, and I know them.
I pastor them.
There are some women who are the salt of the earth.
They are beautiful, inwardly and out.
They're modest.
They love the Lord.
And some of them are single and they are looking forward to loving a man and submitting to his authority in a godly way.
Now, I'm not saying they're a dime a dozen because they're not.
They're rare.
But you can have.
That life that your ancestors had, it's much harder to have.
I admit that much harder economically, it's harder legally, it's harder.
There's more risk, there's more danger.
If a man marries and has children at a legal level, he is immediately at a disadvantage, and everything is a risk.
His whole life could be ruined.
I know the red pill, I'm aware, and all that is true.
The red pill movement has correctly assessed the situation, but they have no solution.
Getting a vasectomy at 20 and never marrying.
Is not a solution.
That is the pathway to literally end the human race.
That's not a solution.
So we need a red pill, but we need a white pill.
God, that's just the beauty again of the scripture.
God gives us the truth of the situation, and oftentimes it's grim, but He also gives us hope.
He doesn't only give us truth, He gives us hope.
And the hope is His Son, Jesus Christ.
He is the hope of the world.
And if we submit to His Lordship, And we're saved not by our good works, but by his grace, trusting in him alone and his finished work on Calvary, dying in our place, the death we deserved, then there's hope.
And we seek to obey him, not to earn his love, but knowing that we freely have his love by grace and we're obeying him as a response of gratitude, and not just privately, but in every realm of life, little by little by little, the world can change.
I believe that.
I have to believe that.
If that's not true, then it's not just that I'm going to be depressed, but if that's not true, then.
Then I have no basis for believing the Christian faith.
I mean, like, what am I doing?
I'm a pastor.
You know, I guess I can, I don't know.
I mean, I've got 75,000 followers on YouTube.
Maybe, Pearl, you could help me find some kind of fringe entertainment that I could start doing videos on instead of the pastor stuff that I've been doing.
But, like, what?
I mean, really, what am I going to do?
This is my life.
This is what I believe.
And it's not just my livelihood for practical reasons, but I believe this down to the marrow in my bone that Jesus is Lord, that He's changed the world.
The whole world changed.
We literally, when we do the calendar, there is before Christ and after Christ.
There's no human being who has ever walked the earth that has changed the world like Jesus.
You can love him, hate him, bless him, curse him, but he is God.
There's no one like him.
He is the Lord of all the earth.
He changed the world in 2,000 years.
I'm living in a grim moment, but I'm fighting for his glory.
I'm fighting for my grandchildren and their future.
And we might be in a dim moment, but 2,000 years, he's been winning.
And the next 2,000 years, he's the victor.
That's what I believe.
Well, thank you very much for coming on.
You're welcome.
I appreciate it.
It's an honor.
Thank you for having me.
Guys, make sure you go subscribe.
Tell them one more time where they can find you.
Just search Right Response Ministries on YouTube.
Yeah, guys, make sure you go subscribe.
Make sure you like the video on your way out.
And also let me know who you would want next time on the sit down.