The speaker addresses financial supporters and urges reviews to counter algorithmic limits before debating Remnant Radio hosts Josh and Michael Roundtree on the Asbury Revival. He condemns Christ for the Nations as heretical, citing its prosperity gospel and kenosis teachings alongside past sexual immorality confessions, while criticizing the revival's February timing and Remnant Radio's inclusion of non-orthodox guests like Todd White. Clarifying his shift from continuationism to a cessationist, 1689 Baptist Confession-aligned position, he asserts a strategy of monopolizing biblical truth rather than engaging broad disputes, concluding that expanding reach during an economic recession is vital for ministry survival. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
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False Revivals and Quenching the Spirit00:05:32
All right, listen, guys, I get it.
Many of you are unable to financially support this ministry because you're spending your cash and your lives on raising young children in the fear and admonition of the Lord.
Praise God for you and that endeavor.
However, algorithms are a thing, shadow banning sadly is a thing.
And one major way that you can help to expand the reach and effectiveness of this ministry that doesn't cost you a dime is by spending just a few moments leaving us a five star review.
Also, perhaps even more effective than that, you can share our podcast with a friend.
We hope you'll take the time to do so.
Thank you so much.
God bless.
Okay.
Will you take on the purveyors of this emotion based entity gathering or entry gathering called a revival, such as Remnant Radio Dudes and Michael Brown?
They are misleading many, many people.
Okay.
That's a good question.
Go ahead and put it up there on the screen so it's bigger.
I'm reading right now, guys.
Obviously, you can't see what I'm seeing.
I'm seeing very small font.
Nathan is now my assistant, my tech guru.
He's making the font bigger so that you can see it and that so that I can see it as well.
So you guys can see it because it's in the chat, but people watch the video later on when it's no longer live and the chat won't be there.
So this will now be etched into the video.
So, would I be willing to take on the purveyors?
Would I have a conversation with them, a charitable, informal debate?
Yes.
Fun fact, a little bit interesting, but you mentioned Remnant Radio.
Believe it or not, when I was in college, I said this a week ago when I did a video on the Asbury Revival, I shared a little bit of my own experience.
So, when I was in college, I ended up getting my undergrad from Dallas Baptist University.
But before going to Dallas Baptist, I transferred in.
My first two years, I spent those at an unaccredited school.
The Dallas Baptist took the credits.
God bless them.
But it was an unaccredited school called Christ for the Nations, also in Dallas, Texas.
Many of you are probably not familiar with this, but some of you might be.
Christ for the Nations is a two year ministry training school, unaccredited.
And the best way I could describe it is it's basically the same thing as the Bethel School for Wizardry and Witchcraft, right?
So, like Bill Johnson, Bethel.
It's like those kinds of schools, right?
It's a two year thing.
The difference between Bethel and Christ for the Nations, they're Theologically, they're the same.
They're both heretical, both very much.
There's a health and wealth, name it, you know, word of faith, prosperity gospel being preached, lots of heresy, kenosis heresy, all those kinds of things.
I don't have time to go into that.
I've got videos on the kenosis heresy with Justin Peters.
You can check those out.
But the point is, both heretical.
The difference between Christ for the Nations and Bethel is that Bethel is cool.
That's the only difference.
Same theology, just Bethel is cool in the sense of Bethel is a.
It's a young man's prosperity gospel, right?
Like the difference between Bethel and Christ for the Nations is the difference between Todd White and Kenneth Copeland, right?
Todd White, kind of younger generation false teacher, Kenneth Copeland, old school false teacher, right?
So that would be the difference.
So imagine, you know, Pastor Joel Webbin, what you're hearing right now, this is big news for some of you because I don't talk about it often, but Pastor Joel Webbin essentially went to Bethel.
Just the William Brannon, Jack Cole, Gordon Lindsay.
Which you guys don't even know who these people are, probably, but the 1950s heretics healing revivals, that version of Bethel.
That's where I went.
I went to the place, the kind of place that gave birth later on to Bethel.
And I remember there was a revival one day in my two years there.
And it started.
And this, look, this is not, see, that's another thing.
Some of you guys, the reason why you don't like detractors, I would be a detractor.
And you're like, oh, this guy's so critical, right response ministries, more like wrong response ministries, which I kind of appreciate that.
That's a good one, right?
Because I say that for NT Wright.
NT Wright might as well be NT Wrong.
So it's fair.
But all that being said, part of the reason you guys don't like my position or other guys like Justin Peters or guys like Tom Bunk, there's a lot of guys.
Right, who's saying, Hey, put on the brakes here.
Wait a second, red flags, warning, warning.
You think we're naysayers and we're just raining on the parade.
We're quenching the Holy Spirit.
And you're misusing what it means to quench the Holy Spirit.
But all those kinds of things.
Part of the reason you say that is because you haven't experienced anything like this.
And you haven't studied the history of revivals and the history of false revivals.
You haven't studied about Amy Semple McPherson and the Foursquare denomination.
You haven't studied about Jack Cole.
You don't know about Gordon Lindsay.
You don't know about William Brannan.
You don't know about these things.
You don't.
Right?
You've seen a couple videos about Benny Hinn.
Okay.
Good.
Good for you.
But there's a rich legacy of true revival and there is a rich legacy of false revivals.
And you know how they start?
Always testimonies.
This is not original.
This is not unique.
This isn't special.
It's not.
Confessions of Social Media Testimonies00:05:36
This is always.
How it starts.
The revival that I was a part of at Christ for the Nations during 2000, it was between 2005 and 2007, testimonies.
What was happening was it was worship.
Somebody spoke.
There was a little bit of a message, quasi message, quasi use of scripture.
And then there was worship through song.
And it was emotional and there was instrumentation.
It was pulling, you know, pulling on, you know, that kind of hill songy worship, but not as cool because it was Christ for the Nations.
And then one of the people in the band, and I believe it was a woman, one of the girls in the band began to share a testimony.
So it's in between songs, you know, the music's still playing.
And you know how worship leaders and your typical mega church kind of seeker sensitive context, worship leaders in those contexts, they fancy themselves preachers.
Like they just can't sing the song and sit down.
They've got to say something, right?
They're always trying to work a sermon in there, in between verses or right after a bridge or in between songs or after a chorus.
And I just want to say that, you know, that the Lord's, you know, He showed me the other day, He spoke to me.
God said to me, it's always, you know, something like that.
So that happened.
There's testimonies being shared.
And then after that, another band member was just worked up, just feeling it, you know, just feeling it.
They shared a testimony.
And a staff member shared a testimony and kind of opened it up.
And they just kind of let the, you know, didn't move on to the next song.
We didn't get out of chapel, right?
It's chapel beginning of the day.
We didn't move out of chapel.
And we decided, you know, hey, we're just going to cancel class, at least the next class.
And then a lion started forming.
And students started giving testimonies.
Then another one, then another one.
And this went from 8 a.m. when chapel started, and it went till 3 p.m.
And then they shut it down.
But it could have gone for days.
And this is before social media, right?
Or at least, you know, I mean, there was a little bit of social media happening.
There was MySpace and the beginnings of Facebook when you still had to have a college email to get a Facebook account, if you guys remember those days.
If this had happened, My point is this if this had happened today in 2023, and all these pictures are being taken, see, that's the difference.
What happened with me when I was in school?
This is not unique.
This happens all the time.
What happened with me, if that had happened right now with the technology that we have and the social media craze that we have, and imagine in my setting, if people had their phones in their pockets and had cameras on their phones and were taking pictures of these things and immediately posting it on Instagram or taking videos and filming it live on YouTube, right?
And taking short videos and putting it as a reel on Instagram and putting it on TikTok and all these like.
I guarantee you, the school would have started getting so much attention, positive attention, at least at first, initially.
The staff would not have shut it down at 3 p.m.
In fact, if it started to wane, if the line got a little bit shorter with the testimonies, if the band got tired, the staff would be orchestrated like, we're going to sustain this.
The staff would get up, I guarantee it, and say, hey, is there anybody else?
And one of the staff members, hey, could you just preach for a little bit?
And then they would look to relieve some of the band members and let's set somebody else up.
And they would have kept it going because the school's getting a ton of attention.
Why not?
Why not?
So, I've been a part of this.
And you'll have to watch the video from last week.
I shared about some of the dangers of the confessions.
Some of them were testimonies.
Some of them were confessions.
God did this for me.
Others were, I did this bad thing.
And some of these confessions were, they needed to be private confessions.
They were private sin, right?
That's the rule of thumb.
Sins committed in private, privately confess.
Sins public, publicly confess.
These were private sins, many of them in the vein of sexual immorality, right?
Because it's a college.
So, it's a bunch of 19 year olds.
Confessing sin.
So, what's one of the big sins being confessed?
At least back then, back in the good old days of heresy, back in my days of heresy and prosperity gospel, at least when we confessed sin, most of it was about sexual immorality.
And it wasn't guys like the new evangelicals interviewing queer students on the campus.
At least we didn't have that.
At least we still understood that sex outside of marriage or sex with the same sex was an abomination and sin.
So, all that being said, People are sharing testimonies, but they're also confessing sin.
Girls are getting up in front of a thousand students and confessing their struggles with lust.
And guys are in the audience taking note of this, saying, She's easy prey.
It was bad.
It was bad.
And it went on for seven hours from 8 a.m. to 3 p.m.
And it would have gone on longer, I guarantee, if we had had the social media capacity then that we do today.
So I've been a part of these things.
These things are not novel.
There's a formula.
It happens.
There's not just a formula in terms of, oh, you know, if you look 50 years ago or back in my day in 2005 or over here, there is a formula at Asbury.
That's another thing that I brought up.
You can look at their website, the school's website, that literally prides itself in having a rich history of revival and then list dates of revival.
Theological Orthodoxy in Remnant Radio00:15:07
Guess what month virtually every single one of their revivals has been in?
Year after year after year, going all the way back, I think, to 1905 was the first one listed.
February, February, February, February.
It's 1905, then it's like 1908, and then 1916, or whatever.
And it just goes at February, February.
Occasionally you get a march in there, right?
Real far from February, and then right back to February.
It's not a coincidence.
The school does certain things at that time.
I mean, you can find the Francis Chan video that talks about how he was going to be scheduled to go to Asbury, and it was going to be in February, towards the end of February.
And so they were working up towards this, building up, getting ready.
There's all, yeah.
Yeah.
All right, Nathan, put the question back on there.
Let me read it one more time.
So, would I talk to Remnant Radio, right?
That's what I was getting at.
Christ for the Nations.
When I was at Christ for the Nations, when I was in Dallas, ironically, Michael Roundtree, who is now, he's replaced Sam Storms as the pastor in Oklahoma of Sam Storms Church.
But Michael Roundtree, at the time, he was, well, At the time, he was actually the youth pastor of Jack Deere, Jack Deere's church.
And Jack Deere, many of you don't know him, he wrote Surprised by the Holy Spirit, Surprised by the Voice of God.
Those were two of his more popular books.
The Beginner's Guide to Prophecy is another book that he wrote.
Jack Deere was an old school vineyard guy.
He had some dealings and relationships and stuff with John Wimber.
He was DTS, Dallas Theological Seminary professor there until he was awakened to the gifts of the Spirit, the sign gifts, tongues, and prophecy, those kinds of things.
He was pastoring a church in the Dallas Fort Worth area, and that was my background, right?
I'm going to Christ for the Nations, a kind of Pentecostal background.
I also had a background with the vineyard.
I was raised in a vineyard church, those kinds of things.
So I was familiar with John Wimber, and I was familiar with Jack Deere.
I had read his books.
I've read Surprised by the Voice of God, Surprised by the Holy Spirit, Beginner's Guide to Prophecy.
I've read Sam Storm stuff, The Beginner's Guide for Spiritual Gifts.
I've read Wayne Grudem, all these kinds of guys.
And some of those guys are better than other guys, just for the record.
I'm putting them all in a similar category, but.
You know, it's fair to say that, you know, some are, you know, more faithful and some are less faithful.
But all that being said, Jack Deer's there in Dallas.
I have that background.
I'm aware of him.
So I'm looking for a church to go to.
I find Jack Deer's church.
I go there.
Michael Roundtree is the youth pastor.
And so I wanted to serve at the church and not just consume.
I thought maybe I could help serve in the youth group.
And so I did.
And Michael welcomed me in.
And Michael Roundtree knew the Bible better than anyone I had ever.
Met up to that point in my life.
I'd never met someone who had more scripture memorized.
And I got to watch him do it.
It wasn't just that he was super smart, he's an intelligent guy.
But it's not like memorizing scripture was just easy for him.
He was disciplined.
He was a very, very disciplined man.
And I know he still is a very disciplined man.
And I got to spend a lot of time, and Michael Rowntree became my mentor.
And he mentored me in things like the gifts of the Spirit.
I actually would teach on things like prophecy and prophetic etiquette, right?
How to prophesy without being too weird, and the distinctions between Old Testament prophecy and New Testament prophecy.
Things that I, you guys know if you follow the channel, I don't believe any of those things anymore.
So when I say I'm a cessationist, just for the record, some of you, this is your first time hearing this, you need to know.
When I say I'm a cessationist, it's not because I have no idea what's on the other side of the aisle.
I've been in the Word of Faith, oneness Pentecostal side of the aisle.
I've been in the vineyard side of the aisle.
I was a vineyard church planter, raised in the vineyard.
I've been in the more tempered, third wave, continuationist side of the aisle.
Yes, I know the terms.
Prophetic etiquette, and two or three should prophesy while the rest weigh what's being said.
New Testament prophecy can be, you know, part of it can be true, but part of it can err.
And so we don't say, Thus saith the Lord.
We say, I feel like the Lord is sane, or I think the Lord might be sane.
And we allow people to weigh it, right?
That's prophetic etiquette.
That's in the third wave, kind of continuation.
That would be your John Pipers, your Wayne Grudems, your Sam Storms, your Michael Roundtree's, your Josh, the guys with Remnant Radio.
Michael Miller's on Remnant Radio.
I was roommates.
Me and Michael Miller lived together.
We shared a house for a couple of years.
So I know these guys, is my point.
You guys don't know this because I don't ever talk about it because they stayed on the same route.
And I went a very different path.
I went strong into Reformed theology.
And then confessionally reformed theology.
1689, cessationism, covenant theology, theonomy, post millennialism, congregationalism.
The old ways are strong with this one.
Joel Webb, and that's just in God's sovereignty, that's where I went.
And I found those things to be, in my assessment, most likely to be biblically true.
I was more convinced of the biblical merit of the positions I hold now, which is why I hold them.
And so obviously, I'm not as close to these guys as I used to.
But that said, you know what?
Michael Roundtree, talking about him, he's the guy that I had the closest relationship with.
Him and Josh on Remnant Radio recently did an episode about Andy Stanley.
And you know what?
I thought they did a great job.
I listened to it because I was just curious.
Are they going to take a strong stance here?
Are they going to really call Andy Stanley out for his remarks about homosexuality and being gay affirming?
I mean, this is absolutely unbiblical.
You have a pastor who represents tens of thousands of people who can be led astray by his teaching, and he is paving the way for gay affirming churches.
And Josh, I keep saying Josh, I forget his last name.
I don't know him as well.
I was long gone by the time that Michael and Josh hooked up.
But I called Michael Roundtree after listening to that episode, and I talked to him, and I said, Brother, you did a great job.
I'm grateful for you.
I know we disagree on plenty of things, and he said the same thing to me.
Michael Rowntree loves me.
At this point, I've been on Remnant Radio before.
At this point, I think I've made my position so clear on certain issues that are controversial, like theonomy, like patriarchy, biblical patriarchy.
I think I've been so clear about those things.
At this point, they probably wouldn't have me on Remnant Radio.
I think I'd be too spicy.
But that doesn't mean that they hate me, that doesn't mean they're mean.
Michael Rowntree is probably, again, I don't know Josh as well, but Michael Rowntree is probably one of the most humble and kind individuals that I personally know.
And I'd love to say otherwise.
I'll be honest.
I would love to say otherwise and say, here's this continuationist.
And they've had Michael Brown on the show.
They've had Francis Chan on the show.
They've had Todd White on the show.
And I'm like, dude, what are you doing?
And here's these guys.
And I'd love to say, and I know them behind the scenes.
And they're arrogant.
You know, because here's the doctrine and here's the fruit in their private lives.
And, but I would be, God would judge me for saying that because it wouldn't be true.
I'd be lying.
I would be bearing false witness.
I think Michael Rowntree is wrong on some positions, but him and Josh are both within the bounds of orthodoxy.
They invite some guys who are outside of the bounds of orthodoxy on their show.
And their defense would say, well, in the beginning of our show, we give the disclaimer some of these guys we agree with, some of them we don't.
And we're disrupting theological echo chambers.
I think that's like their little tagline.
Which I would translate that, disrupting theological echo chambers, aka sowing seeds of theological confusion.
I don't think that's helpful.
I understand people like that, right?
That sells.
That'll get you lots of views.
And some of you listening right now wish I did more of that.
Why don't you have more guys that disagree with you on the show?
Because I'm not just trying to get a bunch of people to watch my show.
I'm trying to have systematic, organized, faithful clarity, consistency, and doctrine again and again and again, hour after hour, day after day, week after week, year after year.
Episode after episode after episode after episode of a consistent, systematic theology that makes sense of the whole of scripture in line with the witness of church history, confessional, robust, reformed, true.
That's what I'm trying to do.
I'm not trying to disrupt theological echo chambers.
In my assessment, again, I would translate that as disrupting theological echo chambers means.
Showing this position, that position, this position, and at some level, I think just introducing theological conclusion or confusion.
That's how confusing it is.
You can't even say the word confusion.
And I've told Michael this, and I'm sure Michael will watch this.
So we disagree.
So they probably wouldn't have me on their show.
And depending on the topic, I probably wouldn't have them on mine.
But I'd be open, and they might be open too.
But the point is this that Andy Stanley episode that Josh and Michael did, fantastic.
I literally just had to call him.
And me and Michael aren't best friends anymore.
He's in Oklahoma.
I'm in Texas.
We're both serving the Lord.
We're in different camps.
But they're Orthodox.
They have some guys, like I said, that I think are not Orthodox and dangerous.
But Michael and Josh, Remnant Radio, they're Orthodox guys.
I think they're wrong on the gifts, but they're Orthodox guys.
And again, I can't say for Josh, but Michael Rowntree is, in terms of character, Michael Rowntree is an incredible man.
He is an incredible man.
And he loves the Bible.
And he would tell you that that's why he's a continuationist, because he can't find a sufficient convincing biblical argument to say that the sign gifts have ceased.
And we just have to agree to disagree on that point.
So, all that being said, would I challenge some of the purveyors of the Asbury revival being a good thing?
I didn't know Remnant Radio said it was a good thing.
It sounds like that's what you're getting at, Raymond.
Oh, Dude, I'm sorry.
Flaherty?
I don't know.
Raymond.
We'll go with Raymond.
Raymond, it sounds like that's what I'm assuming from the way that you're phrasing the question.
It sounds like Remnant Radio is not that they're saying everything about the Asbury Revival is great, but that at least in a general sense, they're for it.
Whereas in a general sense, I'm against it.
And if that's the case, yeah, I would talk to them.
I'd be down to talk to Josh and Michael.
I don't know if it would happen.
But I say all that.
To say, yes, to answer your question, yes, I'd be willing to have a conversation with them.
I would be willing to talk to people that I disagree with.
The reason why I don't do it a ton on the show, I did it with Mike Winger over the doctrine of theonomy.
I'm willing to do it from time to time with guys who I believe are in the bounds of orthodoxy.
And I do believe that Michael Roundtree is in the bounds of orthodoxy.
So I'd be willing to, like I did with Mike Winger, I'd be willing to do that with Michael Roundtree, have a conversation where it's a, you know, It's not an official debate.
It's an informal, you know, organic, charitable debate, pushing back.
And I'm willing to do that from time to time.
But the reason why that's not going to be the meat and potatoes of Right Response Ministries is because I'm not trying to disrupt theological echo chambers.
I'm trying to get a monopoly on the theological echo chamber that's actually true because it's biblical and then blast that out to as many people as possible and say, yeah, come in this chamber.
And yes, everyone on this show, for the most part, there's some differences.
I got Presbyterians, Reformed Baptists, but for the most part, we're aligned because we're right.
And I want to hear you.
I want you to hear what's right.
And I know some of you can't even hear that without thinking, oh, that's so arrogant.
Like, look, everybody, there's nothing original or novel about that statement.
Everyone believes what they believe is right.
That's why they believe it.
Everyone thinks they're right.
Right?
Otherwise, if I'd love to meet that person, honestly, like, can you introduce me to that person?
If you're that person, email me.
I'd just love to meet you.
You'd be the first person in.
8 billion people on the planet that are currently alive that would fit this description.
I would love to meet the person who holds a view that they think is wrong.
They actually, they're consciously aware that the view that they're still deliberately choosing to hold and present to others is the wrong view.
So that they think it's wrong, but they still hold it.
Everybody thinks they're right.
Everybody does.
Everybody thinks they're right.
Now, I'm aware that I could be wrong, but if I was conscious specifically, particularly about the theological issues that actually were wrong, Guess what I would do?
I'd change my positions.
So, yeah, the positions that I currently hold are the positions.
Here it is.
It's crazy, crazy concept.
I know.
The positions, theological positions that I currently hold, are the positions that I think are right.
And you think the same thing.
We all do.
And so, yes, I want to get guys who have similar positions within a narrow vein of what I deem as being biblical, faithful, true.
Because I think that that's going to be most helpful.
Crazy, crazy, absolute craziness.
The strategy for this ministry, Right Response Ministries, Joel thinks that his doctrine is biblical and he wants to get other people who have doctrine that is biblical so that they can get out biblical doctrine to people.
Wow.
Right.
I know it's madness, but you just have to humor me.
Can I be frank with you for just a second right here at the end?
Look, some of you guys, you're financially supporting this ministry, and from the bottom of my heart, I say, Thank you.
Supporting Ministry During a Recession00:01:27
I cannot thank you enough.
However, some of you, you just, you can't afford it.
In fact, some of you, you shouldn't afford it.
Let's be honest.
I mean, we're living in Joe Biden's ridiculous economy.
Our nation and our totalitarian political elites lost their minds over the last three years due to COVID.
We have written checks that we simply cannot cash.
It doesn't matter if people change the definition of a recession.
We are living in In a recession right now, regardless.
Some of you are struggling to afford a carton of eggs at the grocery store.
You cannot support financially this ministry at this time, nor should you, but you could still help us tremendously.
I am asking you, please, if you're willing to do so, take one minute of your time.
Leave us a five star review on your favorite podcast platform iTunes, Spotify, whatever that might be.
This is the way the system works.
We want to be innocent as doves, but shrewd as vipers.
We need to be strategic.
You leave us a five star review, and our podcast shows up for more people.
And the Word of God and courageous theology applied in practical ways to every realm of life gets out there.