Pastor Joel Webbin critiques The Gospel Coalition's "good faith debate" between Jen Wilkin and Jonathan Pennington regarding public schooling in 2023, arguing that sending children to state schools violates Ephesians 6:1-4 by exposing them to 15,000 hours of pagan indoctrination, critical race theory, and LGBT agendas. He rejects Wilkin's "parent through" strategy as akin to unsupervised MMA fighting, asserting that Christian schools alone uphold God's law for universal human flourishing. Ultimately, Webbin concludes that the debate framing dangerously assuages parental consciences about what he defines as biblical sin. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
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Faithful Debate on Baptism00:04:59
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Hi, this is Pastor Joel Webbin with Right Response Ministries, and I'm doing a quick live video right now.
It's Tuesday.
I typically don't go live and do videos like this on just a random day of the week, but I couldn't let this one slide.
Yesterday, the Gospel Coalition released a good faith debate between Jen Wilkin and Jonathan Pennington.
Jen Wilkin and Jonathan Pennington over the topic of whether or not Christian parents.
Should utilize public schools for their children, whether or not Christian parents should send their kids to public state run schools.
And the first thing that I want to say, I'm going to play a couple clips from the debate, just two very brief clips, both coming from Jen Wilkin and her position, her arguments.
It's not really an argument, but her position that she conveys.
I'm going to show those two clips, I'm going to break them down, give you my thoughts.
But before, I just want to address this concept of a good faith debate.
I'm not saying that it's fallacious or it's ridiculous on every account.
But I do think that it is not the proper phrase to be used in this context.
Let me give you an example of a good faith debate.
Good faith debate, what that means, what they're trying to communicate with that phrasing of a good faith debate is saying essentially that the debate is going to be charitable in nature.
Its tone is going to be charitable, both sides towards one another.
And what makes it good faith is not just a charitable or humble or winsome, is probably what the Gospel Coalition would use to describe it a winsome tone, a winsome manner towards one another.
But the good faith phrasing, what that also conveys is that a Christian could take either side of the debate, that both options are viable options according to the scripture, according to the word of God.
Now, for instance, let me give you an example of an actual good faith debate.
Adi Robles and I could have a good faith debate about baptism.
And that's not because, just for the record, that's not because we're theological relativists.
So we're not saying that both positions are biblically faithful positions.
No, they're not.
We could both be wrong, although I doubt it.
I think somebody's right in this particular instance.
We could both be wrong, or one of us could be wrong, but we both can't be right about baptism.
Pado baptism or credo baptism, right?
You either can baptize babies or you can't.
You're either sprinkling or it's immersion.
It's your understanding of the covenants, the new covenant, nature of the new covenant.
Is it regenerate, church membership only, regenerate in order to be positioned?
What's the door into the new covenant?
I believe, as somebody who is a Baptist, barely.
Most of my friends these days tend to be Presbyterians, and I've kind of had my given by them.
I've been given my honorary Presbyterian card.
But in regards to baptism, I do hold to a credo Baptist position.
I believe that the door is faith.
The door into the new covenant is faith.
And yes, I do see, for the record, a continuity between the old covenant with Israel, the nation state of Israel, and circumcision, and the continuity between circumcision.
Under the old covenant and baptism for the new.
However, I think that what matters is the timing, that timing is important.
So, baptism for belonging in the new covenant, likened to circumcision for belonging in the old covenant, yes and amen.
I'm right there with you.
But what gains you entrance, right?
There are different modes.
Yes, Ruth could become a part of the old covenant and join Israel.
Your people will be my people.
Your God will be my God, even though she wasn't Israel by natural birth.
So, there are other ways in, but the predominant way into the old covenant was birth, physical birth.
So, after.
Physical birth, a Hebrew male on the eighth day would be circumcised because they've been entered in, they've gained entrance into the Old Covenant by virtue of their natural birth.
Well, in the same way, when it comes to the New Covenant, the way in is new birth.
And so we apply the signs and seals of baptism of the Lord's Supper right after entrance into the New Covenant, which comes by new birth or spiritual birth rather than old birth, physical birth.
So that is continuity, and yet we disagree in regards to the timing.
Now, that could be a good faith debate.
Protecting Children from Pagan Indoctrination00:15:19
That could be a good faith debate.
Good faith, not meaning that we could both be right, but meaning that there's a legitimate biblical argument to be made on both sides of the issue.
There are legitimate Pado Baptist theologians throughout the ages for centuries now, and there are legitimate, and I know that Presbyterians are going to disagree, but there are legitimate Credo Baptist arguments and theologians who have made those arguments for centuries now.
The 1689 is not a trifle.
It's a legitimate reformed confession.
It is historical.
Nehemiah Cox is not someone to scoff at.
Benjamin Keach is not someone to scoff at.
John Gill.
There are legitimate people and legitimate arguments made from the scripture to back up this position.
Modern guys who are living today, James White.
On the other side of the debate, you've got guys like R.C. Sproul.
You've got guys like Doug Wilson.
In the same way, the 1646, right, the Westminster Confession of Faith is not a trifle, it is not something to be mocked.
There are faithful guys on both positions.
That doesn't mean both are right because we're not relativists.
These positions contradict one another.
They cannot be simultaneously true.
Either they're both wrong or one position is wrong, but they both can't be right.
And yet we can have a good faith debate on that particular topic because there is a reasonable argument to be made from what we understand about the scripture.
When it comes to Christians putting their children in public schools today in America, right?
You got to give a little bit of context with this debate.
Jen Wilkin, in the position that she's arguing for, is not public schools somewhere else on the other side of the world, and it's not public schools in a different period of time.
Public schools in America 50 years ago, she's talking about putting her kids in public school, which she did, and she says that in this debate.
And she says that given the option, that she would do it again today in 2023 in America, she would put her children in the public school system today.
And what this is doing, right, it makes me think of the Hegelian dialect, right?
This, well, it's the typical gospel coalition, third wayism kind of thing that ultimately, really, what I think that accomplishes, and I think this is maybe not for everybody, but I think some of the people with the gospel coalition, this is actually the intent.
I won't say for everyone, some people could be just ignorance, but I think some people, there actually is a malicious intent.
What they're trying to accomplish with this third way argumentation is compromise because, not in every instance, but with this instance, about Public school and Christians utilizing public schools for their children, you're talking about one position that's correct and another position that's wrong.
The position that's correct is that children, the children of Christians, should not be in public schools.
That is right.
They should not.
The position that is incorrect is the position that Jen Wilkins is arguing for that Christian parents can send their kids to public school today in America in 2023.
That is wrong.
So, a third way position somewhere in between is simply compromise.
It's one thing's right, one thing's wrong.
And at best case scenario, you're assuaging the consciences of Christians to adopt a position that's Partly wrong.
Maybe they land somewhere in between.
So it's just some compromise.
It's just some unfaithfulness.
Worst case scenario is that you go all the way to Jen Wilkins' position and you're assuaging the consciences of Christian fathers and Christian mothers to put their kids in public school 40 hours a week from kindergarten all the way through 12th grade, which is a massive amount of compromise.
That is a massive amount of what I believe, according to the scripture, is unfaithful.
So Just even the framing, that's my first point.
The framing of this debate, calling it a good faith debate, what that implies or really outright expresses is that a legitimate, reasonable argument from the scripture, from a Christian worldview, could be made to support either position.
And that is wrong.
That is incorrect.
And I'm not alone in saying this.
I'm not just being hardcore.
Doug Wilson would agree with my position and say that, yes, there is not a biblical, there is not a valid, reasonable argument.
Biblical argument to be made for Christians utilizing public schools with their children.
Vody Bacham would be another example.
Vody Bacham has said for decades now, right, that if you send your kids to Caesar, you cannot pretend to be surprised when they come back as Romans.
And so I would argue that this is a position that should not be framed as a good faith position, a position that a Christian could take within the realm of faithfulness.
No, it is not somehow faithful or a different shade of faithfulness.
No, it is faithless.
It is wrong.
It is morally unpermissible.
Now, that being said, let me read a text here.
This is Ephesians chapter 6, verses 1 through 4.
It says, Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right.
Honor your father and mother.
This is the first commandment with a promise that it may go well with you and that you may live long in the land.
Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but rather bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.
Fathers have a moral obligation under God to raise their children.
In the discipline and instruction of the Lord.
The Greek word that's used there is paideia.
It means the instruction, the tutelage, the teaching, the curriculum.
That God has a curriculum for children.
There is a Christian curriculum for children that they must be trained up in.
They must be trained up in.
And I'm starting with this text to make this argument, and I'm going to show a couple clips and break them down.
The argument that I'm making is that the moral imperative for Christian parents in not sending their kids to public schools is.
Is not merely that Christians have an obligation to protect their children from falsehoods, to protect their children from perversion, right?
It's not just that a Christian father and mother, but the father primarily as head of the household, it's not only that he has a moral obligation under God as a Christian father to see to it that his children avoid pagan indoctrination, to see to it that his children are guarded and protected from critical race theory, from LGBT jihad agenda.
It's not only that he has to ensure that his children don't receive pagan education, but it's also that he has a moral imperative placed upon him as the head of the household by God Himself to ensure that his children, not just that they avoid this bad thing, but that they are properly and thoroughly trained up in, immersed in this good thing.
What is the good thing?
It's God's curriculum, it is the Christian curriculum, it is the biblical worldview.
And the point is this if you are going to fulfill The commandment that is given to fathers in Scripture by God Himself, not to provoke your children to anger, but to bring them up, to raise them up, train them up, immerse them in the discipline and instruction of the Lord, to enlist them, enroll them in the Paideia, the Christian curriculum that God has given to us in His holy word that fathers must raise their children up in.
If you're going to do that, one practical requirement is time.
Fathers, listen to me, Christian fathers, you are not going to be able.
To raise your children up in the fear and admonition of the Lord, the Paideia of the Lord, with your 15 minute a day family worship in the evenings.
After your children get home from their eight hours a day, five days a week for 13 years, kindergarten through 12th grade, you're not going to be able to enlist your children in 15,000 hours.
That's how much it amounts to.
You're not going to be able to enlist your children, enroll them in 15,000 hours of pagan indoctrination.
And then, with 15 minutes in the evening, and then an hour and a half on the Lord's day, be able to sufficiently and thoroughly and biblically raise your children up in the Christian paideia.
So it's twofold.
One, you do have an obligation.
Fathers are to provide and protect, those are the two primary categories of a fatherly duty as head of the household when it comes to your wife and when it comes to your children.
You must provide for them spiritually, provide for them physically, practically, put food on the table.
Put a roof over their head, clothe them, right?
A father has an obligation to work outside of the home in such a way that he's able to protect his children and provide for his children physically and spiritually.
And when it comes to spiritual protection, one thing that a father has to do is take his children to church and make sure that he takes them to a biblically faithful, orthodox, robust church and not a he gets us compromised, seeker friendly, Watered down megachurch, right?
So he protects them from physically, he also protects them spiritually.
Well, in the same way that a father has an obligation not to lead his family to a heretical church, he cannot put his kids in 15,000 hours of a heretical school.
For any Christian father who says, I would never take, and see, this is the compromise, this is the blatant hypocrisy.
For any Christian father who cares about sound doctrine, who would say, I would never take my children and my wife.
And enroll our family as members in a heretical, false doctrine, false teaching, word of faith, prosperity, gospel, seeker friendly megachurch for an hour and 15 minutes once a week on Sunday.
But I will put them in a public school for 40 hours a week, Monday through Friday.
That is a contradiction.
So the point is this it's twofold.
Not only do fathers have an obligation to provide and protect on the protection side, to protect their children, to ensure.
That their children avoid pagan indoctrination.
Fathers also have an obligation not just to make sure that their children are protected from getting something that's bad, but to instill in their children something that is good.
Not just protect, but provide.
They must provide a Christian education.
And if your children, for the very brief window of time that you have them in your home with you, approximately give or take 18 years, during those 18 years, when your children, father, Christian father, are under your roof, they're under your roof, they're in your home, you cannot afford, you simply cannot afford 15,000 hours for them to be in a public school and expect with any reasonable.
Expectation that you're going to sufficiently and thoroughly be able to train them up in the fear and abolition of the Lord, the discipline and instruction of the Lord, the Christian curriculum.
Because a Christian curriculum, if it is to be thorough, if it is to be faithful, it requires far more than your 15 minutes a day of family worship in the evening.
It is a full time endeavor.
All right, so that's the first thing.
So I don't, I think that the framing is at best ignorant.
And at worst, downright deceptive of calling this a good faith debate because what that implies or outright conveys is that a Christian can reasonably and permissibly take both sides, both positions in this debate.
And the answer is no.
There is not, biblically speaking, in America in 2023, a biblical argument to be made for Christians utilizing public schools.
And back in the day, just for the record, public schools, the reason why there were Catholic schools early on in America and not a bunch of Protestant schools is because essentially, this doesn't mean that there weren't problems back then, but there was a dynamic difference between then and now.
Primarily, the public schools were the Protestant schools.
Not only was there prayer in public schools, not only was there Bible in public schools, there were catechisms in public schools in America.
There were catechisms.
That is long gone.
Long gone.
So, the argument that I'm making is that parents today, and I would say for really for a few decades now, but especially in 2023 in the United States of America, a Christian parent does not have a biblical leg to stand on when it comes to sending their kids to 15,000 hours of public school curriculum.
That's just simply not a good faith position that a Christian can take today.
Last disclaimer, and then I'll show the clip.
Last disclaimer I want to make real quick is part of the good faith debate.
They get into the concept of, well, what about Christians on staff at public schools, Christian adults who are a teacher in a public school, or they're an administrator in a public school, or a principal, or on the school board, or these kinds of things.
That's entirely different.
That's distinct from a parent sending their children to a public school for their formation, for being shaped, for being trained.
There's a difference in an adult Christian going behind enemy lines to make a difference versus.
An adult Christian sending their six year old child behind enemy lines for training.
Let me say that again.
There is a dynamic difference between an adult Christian going behind enemy lines to fight, to wage warfare, versus a Christian parent sending their six year old child behind enemy lines to be shaped and formed and trained.
That's dynamically different.
Doug Wilson has said it like this even recently in one of his blogs.
He said, Can a Christian adult be a teacher at a public school?
He said, Yes, you just have to do so faithfully.
So, you can't get up there and say evolution is true.
You know, we all, you know, evolved out of this primordial soup, you know, and fish became lizards and lizards became, you know, whatever, apes and apes became man.
You can't do that.
It's not faithful.
You can't lie to children.
Christians, right?
I mean, that's ultimately the question that we're asking.
Can Christians, is it a viable Christian position to say that Christian adults can lie to children?
No, of course not.
So Doug Wilson's position was saying, yes, a Christian can be in a public school as a teacher, a Christian adult, but they have to do so Christianly.
They have to do so as a Christian.
And he said, so you can work in a public school for approximately two to three weeks.
Because if you do so faithfully, you'll probably get fired.
So it's not that a Christian can't do it, but a Christian has to do it faithfully.
All right.
Christian Teachers in Public Schools00:15:40
So there's a difference between a Christian adult and the question of whether or not they can be on staff at a public school versus a Christian parent sending their child to be trained by a public school.
And if you can be faithful at your public school as a Christian adult on staff as a teacher and, and, By the grace of God in that particular public school, you're able to last more than two or three weeks.
Maybe you can last two or three years, then fine.
This video, I'm not addressing you.
That's not what we're addressing.
So I'm not saying that that's wrong, but I am saying that Christian parents can't send their kids there.
Okay.
That being said, let's go ahead and roll the first clip.
These are two short clips.
Here's the first.
I'll hear a lot from parents who will say, well, it's a public school, but all the teachers are Christians.
And I'm like, well, I want my children to be exposed to all.
All different kinds of teachers, and then I can parent them through whatever those are.
Wow, let's play it one more time.
I want you guys to catch this.
This is important.
We're going to play the clip one more time.
Here we go.
I'll hear a lot from parents who will say, Well, it's a public school, but all the teachers are Christians.
And I'm like, Well, I want my children to be exposed to all different kinds of teachers, and then I can parent them through whatever those are.
So, what Jen Wilkin is saying, right, she's basically acknowledging one of the fallacious arguments that Christians often make in order to.
To defend their position of sending their kids to a public school.
One of those fallacious arguments is this well, my public school is different.
My public school, you know, all the teachers there are Christians.
Number one, statistically, that is highly unlikely, if not just downright impossible.
But let's just humor that for a second and say maybe, okay, you have the one public school in America where all the teachers are Christian.
There would still be problems with that.
One, because, okay, they may be Christian teachers.
But it's not just, we don't just want Christians in education.
For our children, we want them to receive a Christian education, not just Christians giving a pagan education.
There's a difference between a Christian teacher giving a non Christian education versus a Christian teacher giving a Christian education.
A Christian education, meaning that the basis for all truth and everything that our children are being taught is that Jesus is Lord, that for him and through him and by him, all things are.
Were created and are being held together, right?
They're not just receiving an education from a Christian, but they're receiving a Christian education from a Christian.
So that's one of the arguments against that.
Votie Bacham has dealt with that.
So, one, every teacher in your school is not a Christian.
That is highly unlikely, if not downright impossible.
Number two, even if they were, do you have Christians, right?
Christian teachers, but are they giving a Christian education?
Or is it Christian teachers giving a non Christian education?
Well, Jen Wilkins doesn't even deal with this.
What she's doing.
Making it seem, right?
It makes it appear as though she has more of a viable argument.
She's saying, Well, I recognize that that argument that Christians who utilize public schools for their children, like I do, like I did when my children were in school, I realize that one of the arguments they use is they say, Well, our school's different, or all the teachers are Christians.
And I recognize that that's a fallacious argument.
I would never dream of making such an argument.
Okay, well, then what is your argument?
And so she actually argues the opposite.
She actually says, I actually see it as a virtue, I see it as something positive, something good.
I want my kids.
Right?
That's a language.
Notice that's the language that she uses.
She said, I don't want my kids to only have Christian teachers.
I want them to have all kinds of teachers, but all kinds of teachers in this particular, I want my kids to have a lot of different types of teachers, right?
I want my kids to have a teacher who specializes in science, a teacher who specializes in history, a teacher that specializes in literature.
But that's not what she's saying.
She's not saying literature and science, and I want them also to get some practical training in welding.
No, she's saying different kinds of teachers, meaning there's Christian kinds, and then I want the, Non Christian kinds also.
No, I don't want that.
I don't want that for my kids.
I don't want Christian teachers for my kids and then non Christian teachers for my kids.
But Jen Wilkin does.
She does.
And that's the argument she makes.
And then right there at the end, what she ties on at the end is she says, and then I'll parent them through it.
Let's play the clip one more time.
I want you to hear that.
Here we go.
I'll hear a lot from parents who will say, well, it's a public school, but all the teachers are Christians.
And I'm like, well, I.
I want my children to be exposed to all different kinds of teachers, and then I can parent them through whatever those are.
So, let me give you an illustration here that hopefully will be helpful.
The illustration is this If I was going to enroll my children in MMA fighting, which I won't, just for the record, that's a video for another day.
But let's say I'm going to enroll my children in MMA fighting classes to be trained.
I do want my kids to be trained in self defense and all those kinds of things.
But I think there's a difference in teaching them self defense versus encouraging them to mar the image of God, the Imago Dei, by pounding somebody's face in for sport as a competition.
That being said, if I was going to enroll my children in MMA fighting techniques and classes, such as jujitsu, boxing, kickboxing, Muay Thai, whatever.
And we're talking about little children, public school, starting with kindergarten, right?
At this point, you know, people send their kids to preschool in the public school system.
But let's just say kindergarten, five years old, kindergarten.
I would not enroll my child in MMA training as a five year old and drop them off at the gym, right?
Because remember, Jen Wilkins, she's not sitting in class with her kids.
She's dropping them off.
I wouldn't drop my five year old daughter off at MMA fighting training and knowing that part of the training.
Is not just that my five year old boy, son, or daughter is going to be sparring with other five year olds.
But that part of the training is that my five year old is going to get in the ring with a full grown adult and they're going to fight them.
That full grown adult is going to start wailing on my child.
They're going to be up against the ropes, and a 29 year old feminist is going to be.
Wailing on my five year old daughter, and I'm at work somewhere.
I'm not even there.
But when they get home, I'm going to parent them through it.
Right?
So, when my child gets home and they're battered and bruised and bleeding, hopefully still alive, but battered and bruised and bleeding, then I'll parent them through it.
That's the equivalent.
No, no, that's not how Christian parents parent.
No, you're going to parent them through it, but what are you parenting them through?
You don't know what just happened.
You weren't there.
You weren't there.
You're going to parent them through your five year old's recollection of what happened.
But that teacher, with you out of the room, with you out not even being present, that pagan teacher who hates God if they're not a Christian.
And again, I'm using her argument because her argument is she wants different kinds of teachers.
She wants non Christian teachers.
So she wants pagan Christian or pagan teachers.
And according to the word of God, there is no neutrality, there's no indifference, right?
Romans chapter 8 says the mind of the sinful man is hostile, not just neutral, not just indifferent, not uninterested, but hostile at enmity toward God and his law.
He does not submit to God's law, nor can he.
He's unwilling to submit to the truth of God, God's law, the way that God made the world.
The pagan mind is unwilling to submit to God's law and unable.
He does not, he cannot.
And so, what you're advocating for right now is you're saying that you actually don't want your children to be trained and formed and shaped and taught in a Christian paideia by Christian teachers.
But you actually see it as not just something that we stomach, not just something that we put up with, but As a virtue, as a positive aspect of your children's formation, that they be trained by God hating pagans with you not there.
So you got a God hating pagan giving a God hating worldview that essentially, right now, and not just for 15 minutes, but for eight hours.
And while you're gone for eight hours, you have a God hating teacher providing a God hating curriculum, God hating worldview with your five year old.
So they're in the ring, and this grown adult.
Is wailing on them, but you're going to parent them through it on the backside.
You're going to somehow salvage this after the fact based off of working from your five year old, your six year old, your seven year old's recollection of the fight that they just had and how they got pummeled.
And one, you're counting on your five year old to be able to call this to memory.
And hopefully they were conscious even for this fight.
They were getting destroyed, they were getting pummeled, but you're going to work them through it.
You're going to parent them through it.
No, you're not.
You're not.
No, this is a bad idea.
This is not a good faith position that Christians can take.
It's not.
It's not.
We don't subject our children.
Your child is not a missionary.
And see, that's part of the argument, right?
So, Jen Wilkins, she's aware of some of the arguments that have failed, that have been thoroughly dismantled by guys like Vodi Bakum.
And so, she doesn't even attempt to make them, right?
She tries to make these new arguments, right?
Christian parents, one of our arguments is that they should put their kids in the public school system because what about all those other kids that would just be left?
Well, yeah, that is tragic.
That is tragic.
But your chief responsibility, Christian, is for your kids.
Your kids.
Right?
I mean, apply that same logic and say, well, there are children that are starving.
And so, I mean, I can't put my children in front of a table that has food.
I can't, you know, I none like if every Christian, you know, part at one point in the good faith debate, she says, if every Christian took their children out of the public school all at the same time, imagine that the collapse and the calamity and how harmful it would be for all these kids who are left behind.
And I would respond to that and say, Praise God, praise God, not praise God in the sense of it's good that this would have a negative impact on these other children.
I would actually argue that I don't think that would be the result.
I think the result would be if every faithful Christian, everybody who professes the name of Christ and claims to be a Christian, started behaving in a faithful manner and took their kids out of the public school system.
Even in the state of California, you have 10 million, 42 million is the population, give or take.
10 million of those residents profess to be Christians.
If 10 million, a quarter, 25, and that's California, right?
So if you take the nation as a whole, it would be over a quarter of the population takes their kids out of the public school system.
Well, the public school system would collapse.
It would be done.
It would implode.
And we would be forced to come up with other options.
And I do believe that the vast majority of these alternative options would be better than the current situation, better than the state run atheistic schools that we currently have.
So the idea of making the argument saying, well, of course, we can't say that the children of Christians are missionaries, right?
Of course not.
We can't make that argument.
The reason she's not making that argument for the record.
Is because that argument was made by Christians to support sending kids to public schools.
That argument was made ad nauseum for decades.
And it has been proven and dismantled so thoroughly by this point that Jen Wilkins just doesn't even have the gall to even make the argument because it's been so thoroughly disproven.
Your children are not to be treated as missionaries, they're training.
I mean, even when it comes to 18, 19, 20 year old young adults, Right, who enlist in the military, they go to boot camp.
And boot camp is thousands of miles away from actual warfare that's taking place.
And yes, it's rigorous and yes, it's difficult, but it's controlled and it's protected and it's defended.
We don't even send someone in who's a young adult, we don't send them into battle without first being trained.
And the training doesn't happen on the battlefield, it's too late.
The training doesn't happen at war.
The training happens in preparation in the controlled environment before war.
The imperative for Christian parents is not to treat their children as missionaries, as spiritual soldiers in the war, but rather to train them so that when they're ready, they would be shot out like arrows.
But those arrows need to be formed first, they need to be sharpened, they need to be straightened.
We need those arrows to be prepared before we shoot them out at the enemy.
Okay, so let's go ahead and play the next clip.
I don't want to covertly take over the public schools and make them Christian schools, although I value the ethics that that would involve being in place in the public schools.
But I think that because they're public schools, they need to serve a general population in a way that a Christian school doesn't.
No.
Okay, first, I do want to take over public schools.
Now, I agree.
I don't want to covertly take over public schools.
I want to overtly take over public schools.
I want the public school and I want the United States of America, I want the general public to be fully aware of what the Christian's intention is.
And that intention is that, yes, we want to take over public schools.
We want to see them shut down.
We want to see them shut down.
I believe that the public school system in America is past the point of being redeemed, that it needs to be shut down.
We talk about some institutions.
You can go inside and try to recapture some institutions and other institutions.
Like high places in Israel, they need to be burned to the ground, and a temple to the Lord needs to be built right on top of the ashes.
I think the public school system in America today in 2023 would be an example of an institution that needs to be abandoned and it ultimately needs to be overcome.
It needs to be conquered.
It needs to be conquered.
So, well, she's saying, Well, I don't want to take over the public school system.
Well, I do.
I do.
And I want to do it from the outside or from the inside.
Why Christian Schools Benefit Everyone00:05:35
I want to see faithful Christian adults.
At the school board meeting, I want to see faithful Christian adults, but not from the inside by sending in our secret agent, six year old.
Your six year old child is not meant to be sent in by Christian parents as the TKO weapon to take down the public school.
So I do want to overtake the public school system.
I don't want to covertly do it, I don't want to do it deceptively.
I want to do it overtly and say, yeah, this is wrong.
By God's grace, if He would be so gracious, He's going to empower us by His Spirit through both law and gospel to take this down and to set up better Christian alternatives.
But the last thing that she said in that clip, I want to play it for you guys one more time, but the last thing she said in that clip is not just I don't want to take them down, but basically saying I don't want to take them down because the general public needs them.
There are non Christians, and these non Christians need this non Christian education because it's good for the general public, it's good for society.
Play the clip again.
I don't want to covertly take over the public schools and make them Christian schools, although I value the ethics that that would involve being in place in the public schools.
But I think that because they're public schools, they need to serve a general population in a way that a Christian school doesn't.
Because they're public schools, they need to serve a general population, right?
She's essentially saying because it's a public school, it needs to serve the general public in a way that a Christian school doesn't.
That is.
A pivotal fallacy.
No, a Christian school, if it's truly Christian, it serves the general public better than a public school, than an atheistic pagan school.
Period.
The point that I'm making is this a Christian school is not just better for Christian children or the children of Christian parents, it's better for everyone.
The law of God is good, holy, and right.
It's not just the morally right thing, it's the good thing.
Triple braided cord.
Truth, goodness, and beauty.
If it's true, it is beautiful.
If it's true, it is beneficial.
It is good.
The right thing is the good thing.
And the thing that is truly good for society, for human flourishing, is also that which aligns with the law of God and is morally right.
Christian schools, hear me, Christian schools are not just a necessity for the children of Christian parents.
Christian schools are a practical, Not just spiritual, it's that, certainly, but also a practical benefit to everyone.
Everyone.
Salt and light benefits everyone.
The gospel of Jesus Christ benefits everyone.
It is better to be an atheist living in a Christian society with Christian principles and Christian law and Christian civil magistrates.
Better to be a non Christian in a Christian society than to be not only a Christian in a non Christian society, but even a non Christian in a non Christian society.
Pagans do not fare well in pagan societies.
The Christian worldview is good for everyone.
When the tide rises, it lifts all the boats.
This Christian ethic that she mentions in passing, she says, Well, while I see that a Christian ethic would be good, the implication that she gives in that clip is she's subtly implying that a Christian ethic, a Christian education, Christian school would teach a Christian ethic and that would be good.
But what she's implying is that it would be good for Christians, that it would be exclusively good for Christians.
But we live in a society where.
You know, not everybody's Christian.
There's a general public, and there are people who are not Christian.
So, non Christians need non Christian schools for their good.
No, the gospel's good for everyone.
The law of God is good for everyone.
The Christian paideia is good for every child.
Every child, a child of unbelievers or a child of believers, both will benefit by being trained up in the fear and admonition of the Lord.
What is true?
Is that which is good.
And I mean universally good.
Universally good.
That which is true, aligning with God's word and what God says is true, is going to be that which is good.
And not just good for some people.
It's not if we cling to the truth, it'll benefit the church.
No, if we cling to the truth, it benefits the church.
It will uniquely benefit the people of God.
That's true.
But the truth of God, his ways, his law, his principles, his gospel, it doesn't just uniquely benefit the church.
But it also universally benefits all image bearers.
All people benefit.
One of the most loving things that we can do, not just for our own children, not just for Christian children or children of Christian households, but benefit all children.
One of the best ways that you can love your neighbor is by not just obeying the law of God, but ensuring in the public square that the law of God is adhered to by the civil public.
Equal Protections and Penalties for Abortion00:03:13
The civil square.
When a Christian votes for certain laws, right?
So, you know, as an abolitionist, when it comes to the issue of abortion, I want to work towards penalties for abortion.
And not just penalties for the abortion doctor, but penalties for the mother who goes to have her unborn child murdered and consents to that murder, is complicit in that murder, and the father, if he consents to that, I want penalties for him to, I don't want just abortion to be, um, Unavailable.
I don't want abortion just to be illegal.
I want abortion to be criminalized.
I want there to be penalties, equal penalties, not just some penalties, but whatever the penalty would be for a mother taking her three year old child to a back alley with a hitman and paying him to shoot that child in the head and murder them in cold blood.
I want that, whatever that penalty is, I want that same penalty for a mother who goes to an abortion doctor and drags her baby by virtue of it being in her womb and pays him in order to.
Kill her unborn child.
I want the same penalty, equal penalties.
Equal penalties, here's the argument, real short.
Equal penalties ensures equal protection.
You cannot say that it's equal protection if it's not an equal penalty.
So, equal penalties is equal protection, and equal protection is necessary in order to actually back up the argument of equal dignity, equal sanctity, equal value.
If you're going to say that the child in the womb really is a child, that they really are a human being, that they really are an image bearer, not half of an image bearer, but a whole image bearer, a whole human, if you're going to attribute to the unborn child 100% personhood as an image bearer of the living God, created in the image of God with the full sanctity of life, if you're going to say equal value for the unborn, Then to back that statement up,
to say we value the unborn just as much as those who are born, then you have to say equal value means then we ensure equal protections.
And if it's going to be equal protections, it has to be equal penalties.
Now, if I vote for a law like that, or I give my vote for a political candidate who's given a promise to ensure and put down bills on the table to try to pass laws like that, that benefits everyone.
I'm not just doing that because I think it's good for Christians.
No, I'm doing that for children in the womb who very well may be born and grow up and live their entire lives from birth to death and never receive the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior through faith.
And yet it's still in their benefit.
Their temporal, physical, in this life, it is to their good.
It is to their benefit.
And so I'm going to support laws in the civil sphere, in the public square.
When it comes to education, public education, when it comes to legislation and laws, I am going to support.
That which aligns with the moral, transcendent, universal law of God, because it's right, it's true, and therefore it is also good and practically beneficial, not just for Christian people or Christian children, but for all people and all children.
Supporting the Ministry During Recession00:02:22
The Christian ethic, my argument is, Jen Wilkin is wrong.
My argument is not that, well, there are Christians and they can have their Christian schools, but there are non Christians, and so they need non Christian schools.
No, the Christian ethic that should come from a faithful Christian school benefits everyone, whether they're Christian or not, because it's right.
And it's true.
So, this good faith debate was not helpful.
Again, at best, it muddies the water and confuses Christian parents.
And at worst, it assuages the consciences of Christian mothers and fathers to the point that it would allow them to enlist their children in 15,000 hours of pagan indoctrination.
And that is a sin.
Thanks for tuning in.
Can I be frank with you for just a second, right here at the end?
Look, some of you guys, you're financially supporting this ministry, and from the bottom of my heart, I say thank you.
I cannot thank you enough.
However, some of you, you just, you can't afford it.
In fact, some of you, you shouldn't afford it.
Let's be honest.
I mean, we're living in Joe Biden's ridiculous economy.
Our nation and our totalitarian political elites lost their minds over the last three years due to COVID.
We have written checks that we simply cannot cash.
It doesn't matter if people change the definition of a recession.
We are living in a recession right now, regardless.
Some of you are struggling to afford a carton of eggs at the grocery store.
You cannot support financially this ministry at this time, nor should you.
But you could still help us tremendously.
I am asking you, please, if you're willing to do so, Take one minute of your time.
Leave us a five star review on your favorite podcast platform iTunes, Spotify, whatever that might be.
This is the way the system works.
We want to be innocent as doves, but shrewd as vipers.
We need to be strategic.
You leave us a five star review, and our podcast shows up for more people.
And the Word of God and courageous theology applied in practical ways to every realm of life gets out there.