John MacArthur and Voddie Baucham clarify that while both are Calvinistic Baptists, they diverge on the 1689 Second London Baptist Conf of Faith; MacArthur rejects it, whereas Baucham affirms it alongside covenant theology and Sunday as a moral law. They contrast this with MacArthur's dispensationalism and pre-millennialism, noting that Roman Catholicism falls outside the evangelical "five solas" due to the Council of Trent. The discussion concludes by announcing a price hike for the Post Millennial and Theonomy Conference from $100 to $130 after October 31st, highlighting ongoing theological nuances within the Reformed Baptist movement. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
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Catholic vs Evangelical Distinctions00:05:40
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What's the difference between the Reformed Baptist denomination and evangelical denomination?
Can one be Calvinist and evangelical?
Okay, leave the question up there for just a moment.
So, I'm going to do like what I just said.
So, Jesus, you know, people would ask him a question, he would decline to answer their question, and then he would answer another question that he thought was actually more pertinent.
I'm going to do a little bit of that with you, Sir Ian, but not completely.
I want to honor your question as much as I can, but I think this is what you mean.
Okay.
So, and maybe you don't mean this, and maybe it's just a misconception, just something that, you know, just an area of ignorance.
So, let me dispel some of that.
Evangelicalism is not really a denomination.
So, when people say evangelical Christians or evangelicals, what they're actually talking about is an overarching collection of multiple denominations.
And what constitutes an evangelical Christian at the individual level or an evangelical church, speaking of local churches, or an evangelical denomination, is does this church or individual person or denomination preach?
An Orthodox Christian gospel.
So, evangelicals, right, and it's tough because with many words, there's debates about how to define that.
But in recent history, in general, the way that the word evangelical has been defined and understood has been any denomination, multiple denominations, any denomination, any local church, any individual person who believes that we are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.
Okay, so some would maybe differ with what I'm about to say, but most evangelicals would agree that Catholic is not evangelical, Roman Catholicism.
So it'd be evangelicals and Catholics.
That's one of the things that Billy Graham did in his later years that I would reject.
I think this was wrong.
I don't like that he did this.
But towards the end of his ministry, he had a big push for Catholics and evangelicals to unite.
Now, it's one thing for Catholics and evangelicals to unite on, for instance, The issue of the sanctity of life because we believe the exact same thing.
But it's another for evangelicals and Catholics to unite in the work of evangelism because that has to do with the gospel.
And Roman Catholics do not believe the same gospel that we do as evangelical Christians.
They believe another gospel.
I love Roman Catholics, I love them immensely.
I am grateful for a lot of what they do.
But they do believe another gospel.
They don't believe that we are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, according to the scripture alone, to the glory of God alone.
Sola, right?
The Latin word sola, alone.
That's the contention.
There's the rub.
The Council of Trent still is the current standard for Roman Catholicism.
This has never been undone, this has never been overridden.
The Council of Trent anathematized.
That we are saved by grace through faith in Christ according to the scripture to the glory of God alone.
And that is the gospel.
So, what I'm saying is this that the Council of Trent, which is still the official position of the Roman Catholic Church to this day, anathematized, that is, it cursed, said, Let him be accursed.
And what did they curse?
The gospel of Jesus Christ.
That's a big deal.
I love Catholics.
And I am partnering in some capacities with Catholics when it comes to political and cultural issues.
And yet, no matter how cozy I might get, if I ever stop saying what I'm saying in this video right now, then call me out for being a hypocrite.
I don't want to get so cozy on some cultural issues where we can agree that I stop preaching in love the truth to our Roman Catholic friends that what they believe is another gospel.
It's not another presentation or another version.
No, it is a whole other alternative gospel.
It is not the gospel.
Okay, so usually when you think of, you know, large banner being Christian, you know, and this is just the language that people use.
So I'm not making an objective theological statement now.
Okay, but people, you know, if somebody was an atheist historian tracking, you know, Christian influence throughout the world, they would use, especially over the last, you know, 50, You know, to 80 years, they would say, well, underneath the larger Christian banner, you have Catholics and then you have, you know, evangelicals.
Calvinistic Baptist Confessionalism00:11:22
And then they might add some other categories like Unitarians.
And again, I'm not making a theological statement saying that all these people are, in fact, Christians.
But I'm just saying this is how, you know, a historian would look at it you've got the larger banner of Christian, and then underneath that, you have like Roman Catholic, evangelical, and some other things that are included that really probably should not be included as Christian.
But my point is that evangelical category has, within recent history, been understood widely to include Baptist, Reformed Baptist, like in your question, Sir Ian, Presbyterians, Anglicans, Lutherans, multiple different denominations, all evangelical.
So your question is saying, is there a difference between Reformed Baptist denomination and evangelical denomination?
And what I'm saying is, Evangelical is not a denomination.
So you're naming one particular denomination, namely Reformed Baptist, that falls underneath a larger category, which is evangelical.
Now, the question that I think will be helpful for you and our other listeners would be a question like this, for instance Is there a difference between Reformed Baptist and Calvinistic Baptist within both the banner of evangelicalism, but two different categories?
Denominations, or at least two different, if not official denominations, two different movements or expressions of evangelicalism Reform Baptist versus Calvinistic Baptist.
And I would say, yes, there is a difference between being a Calvinistic Baptist and a Reform Baptist.
Let me give you two names.
So I'll first articulate the difference, the distinction by naming some guys, and then I'll name some doctrines.
Okay.
So in terms of some people, John MacArthur would be one of your quintessential Calvinistic Baptists.
That is not a reformed Baptist.
He is a Calvinistic Baptist.
He would hold to the five points of, he'd hold to the five solas, right?
So, saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, according to the scripture alone, to the glory of God alone.
So, he'd hold to the five solas, but beyond that, he would hold to the tulip, the five points of Calvinism, the doctrines of grace.
Okay.
Total depravity, unconditional election, limited or definite atonement, irresistible grace, and the perseverance of all saints.
All right.
So, John MacArthur is a Calvinist.
He is a card carrying Calvinist.
Okay.
But he is not a reformed Baptist.
He is a Calvinistic Baptist.
An example of a reformed Baptist.
To name someone on that side of the aisle would be someone like, well, Vodi Bakum.
So I'm trying to name bigger guys that you would recognize.
Oh, here's another one James White.
James White.
And myself.
I assume you know who I am.
If you're watching this video, you know at least a little bit about me enough to click on this and to still be here watching.
But so someone like Vodi Bakum, somebody like James White, and somebody like Joel Webbin, we would be Reformed Baptists.
Not merely Calvinistic Baptists like John MacArthur, but Reformed Baptists.
So there is a distinction.
So both under the banner of evangelicalism, but two different expressions both evangelical, both Orthodox, both Christian, but two different expressions.
The difference in terms of names, people, John MacArthur, Calvinistic Baptist, somebody like Vodie Bockham, Reformed Baptist.
Now, the difference in terms of doctrine here would be your differences.
The big quintessential difference is that a Reformed Baptist is someone who is confessional.
They hold to one of the historic, well, not just one of, but quintessentially the historic Reformed Confession of Faith for Baptists, namely the 1689.
John MacArthur would not hold to the 1689.
He would agree with a lot of it, a lot of it, but he would not be able to affirm outright the entirety of the 1689 Second London Baptist Confession of Faith.
Votie Bacham would, James White would, I would.
So, we are Reformed Baptist, and primarily the first big, the biggest doctrinal distinction that that means in being Reformed Baptist is that we are confessionally Reformed Baptist, or also historically known as particular Baptist.
Now, in that confession, what are some of the isolated individual doctrines that are different than someone like MacArthur, who's merely a Calvinistic Baptist, faithful, grateful for MacArthur, but merely a Calvinistic Baptist?
Well, why are you saying merely?
That sounds like a pejorative, that sounds derogatory.
Well, I'm saying merely because a Calvinistic Baptist believes less.
So that's why I'm using the adjective merely.
They believe less than the confessional Baptist.
And this is what I mean.
The Calvinistic Baptist would affirm less of the 1689 confession.
So maybe MacArthur's right.
So I don't mean that in an insulting way, but I'm saying he would hold to less of the Reformed confession of faith for Baptists, namely the 1689.
What are some of the things that MacArthur would not hold that someone who affirms the entirety of the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith would hold?
MacArthur would not hold to Christian Sabbatarianism, the Sabbath.
The Christian Sabbath, whether you are Reformed Presbyterian, affirming the Westminster Confession of Faith, or Reformed Baptist, both confessional, affirming the 1689 Confession of Faith.
On both sides of the aisle, if you're Reformed Presbyterian or Reformed Baptist, you would hold to the Christian Sabbath.
The Christian Sabbath.
Believes that the fourth commandment in Exodus 20 and the Ten Commandments, the Decalogue, the fourth commandment is belonging to the moral law of God rather than ceremonial law of God, particular to the Old Covenant and to Israel, the nation state of Israel during the time of the Old Covenant.
We would say, no, the Sabbath is not ceremonial law, it is moral law, and that Jesus, as Lord of the Sabbath, does not remove the Sabbath, he doesn't abrogate the Sabbath, the fourth commandment, he does not remove it, but rather he renewed the Sabbath.
The Sabbath from the last day of the week, namely Saturday, which is when the Jewish people would observe the Sabbath as they were instructed by God, the seventh day of the week.
Jesus has not removed the Sabbath, but renewed the Sabbath from the last day of the week, Saturday, to the first day of the week, Sunday, by virtue of it being the day that he rose from the grave.
By virtue of his resurrection, he renewed, not removed, but renewed the Sabbath from the last to the first day of the week.
And the Sabbath, the fourth commandment within the Decalogue, belongs to the moral law of God and not merely.
The ceremonial law.
There are ceremonial aspects of the Sabbath, but it is a moral law, meaning it is an institute, a precept that God gives not just to Jewish people, but to all people in all places throughout all time.
So, Reformed Baptists are confessional.
One of the aspects of being confessional rather than non confessional and merely Calvinistic Baptist is the issue of the Sabbath.
Also, that gets into our views of the law.
It also gets into Covenant theology.
One of the very big specific tenets of the 1689 of being Reformed Baptist versus Calvinistic Baptist is that Reformed Baptists, who would they affirm the Reformed Confession of Faith for Baptists, the 1689, is that they would adhere to covenant theology and not dispensationalism.
John MacArthur is not a covenant theologian.
He would reject covenant theology.
In his defense, he rejects covenant theology because he wants to hold to a very strict historical grammatical.
Literal hermeneutic and the way that he reads and interprets scripture, and he would have less room for an analogical or typological or Christological piece in that hermeneutic.
Whereas Reform Presbyterians with the Westminster and Reform Baptists with the 1689, we would affirm John MacArthur's hermeneutic.
We wouldn't hold to anything less than that, but again, we would hold to something in addition to that.
We would say it needs to be a literal, historical, grammatical hermeneutic and Typological, analogical.
And so, in that hermeneutic, in the way that we read scripture, we would see more continuity between the Old and the New Testament than John MacArthur or dispensationalists would see.
And again, as a disclaimer, doing, you know, not straw manning, but iron manning, Dr. MacArthur, he would be self described as not a hard line dispensationalist as some, but a leaky dispensationalist.
So, what's the big difference between Reformed Baptists versus Calvinistic Baptists?
Well, the overarching difference is.
The confession of faith.
Within the confession of faith, what are some of the specific tenets?
The Sabbath, covenant theology versus dispensationalism, things like that.
And then within covenant theology, most, as far as I'm aware, pretty much all covenant guys, rather than dispensational, are either all mill or post mill in their eschatology.
Whereas, again, most, if not all, dispensationalists are pre mill in their eschatology.
So, the eschatology piece would be another difference that we would have between a Calvinistic Baptist and a Reformed Baptist.
So, those are some of the things, some of the differences between a Calvinistic Baptist and Reformed Baptist, but both underneath the larger banner of evangelicalism.
Evangelical not being a denomination, but rather the large overarching banner to describe simply gospel believing Christians in multiple denominations that would fall underneath that header.
Wait, Hold it.
Big announcement, a scary announcement, a threat, but also a promise.
The price of our conference, the post millennial and theonomy conference, it's going up.
It's going up right after Reformation Day.
We are going to hold the price at $100, which is super cheap for a three day conference with Dr. James White, Dr. Joseph Boot, Dr. Gary DeMar, and the guy who's not a doctor.
So we'll say Pastor Joel Webbin.
We've got a great conference May 5th, 6th, and 7th in Georgetown, Texas, just north of Austin for $100.
Super cheap.
But we can't hold that price forever.
If you want to get into that price, you got to get in now, right after Reformation Day, not Halloween, Reformation Day, October 31st.
That's the last day that you can get in this conference, register at the price of a hundred bucks.
After that, starting November 1st, it's going to be a hundred and thirty.
So go to rightresponseconference.com, rightresponseconference.com, and register today.
Register for Reformation Conference00:00:16
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