Andrew Klavan from The Daily Wire is critiqued for allegorizing Scripture and avoiding explicit condemnation of homosexuality, which the host views as a failure to take God at His word despite Klavan's conservative credentials. While distinguishing Klavan's Presbyterian covenantal views from the host's theonomic stance, the speaker argues that softening on gay men undermines true regeneration, yet maintains partnership with The Daily Wire is possible for genuine Christians. The episode concludes by promoting an upcoming Right Response Conference featuring Dr. James White and others to discuss post-millennialism and theonomy. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
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Avoiding Sinful Labels00:07:13
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So, Andrew, okay, yeah.
So, Andrew Clavin from The Daily Wire, so I would, you know, he would be in another category altogether separate from, like, Jack Hibbs, for instance, with Calvary Chapel, right?
So, like, if you think of it like this, right?
Here's Joel.
You know, post millennial, theonomic, patriarchal, reform, particular Baptist.
All right.
And then here's the cross-politic guys that I was talking about earlier.
All right.
We've got some differences.
They're more Presbyterian and Westminster view of the covenants and Pado Baptist and Pado Communionist.
All right.
And then, like, I'd say, like, we're about, let's say we're five feet apart.
Well, Jack Hibbs is like 50 feet apart.
And then, if you go five more miles and fall off of a cliff, Down to the very bottom and get shattered on the rocks, there's Andrew Clavin.
And what I mean by that is Andrew Clavin, who claims to be a Messianic Jew, a Reformed Jew who is now Christian, believes that Jesus is the Messiah.
I don't believe it.
Andrew Clavin, I've read some of his stuff on Scripture.
It's very similar to Jordan Peterson.
He just allegorizes everything, everything in Scripture is a metaphor.
He just doesn't take God at his word.
And an example, that's kind of his hermeneutic, as an example in his life, you have Spencer Clavin, Andrew's son.
And Spencer Clavin is openly gay.
And Andrew Clavin esteems and honors his son's choice to be a gay man.
And so you might say, well, I thought he was conservative.
He's with the Daily Wire.
Well, one, the Daily Wire is only so conservative.
And two, the way that they kind of get around that, guys like Ben Shapiro, guys like Andrew Clavin, Matt Walsh is more conservative out of those guys.
Even Michael Knowles, he's deeply Catholic.
And I know Matt Walsh is Catholic too, but I like to think that Matt Walsh is a bad Catholic.
The thing about bad Catholics is that bad Catholics are sometimes Christians, but good Catholics never are.
So Michael Knowles, I think, is very conservative.
I like a lot of his rhetoric, but he's deeply Catholic.
Whereas Matt Walsh, I don't think he's quite as Catholic as Knowles, but those would be probably your two most conservative guys.
Ben Shapiro is what I would consider conservative light, and Andrew Clavin also, probably even lighter than Ben Shapiro.
And so what you hear from Ben Shapiro and Clavin, their rhetoric on things such as, well, just LGB, you know, minus the T, is though they'll kind of, you know, pull out their conservative hammer and wail on transgenderism, but then they'll, you know, They will be real soft on lesbianism, gay men, those kinds of things.
But in order to keep their conservative card, what they'll say is, well, this isn't ideal.
So they'll say, Andrew Clavin has said multiple times, even in regards to his son, he'll say, like, every parent wishes that their children would be in a normative marriage and produce for them grandchildren.
And so he would say, I'm proud of my son and his courage to be who he is.
But yes, it's not ideal.
And what's normative in America should be so.
So they would push back on the gay agenda, obviously the transgender, but even on the gay agenda by saying, we don't need to be heralding gay relationships as though they are normal.
We don't need to make them try to normalize it.
And we also don't need to esteem it as though it's better to be gay than it is to be heterosexual.
So they would say, it's best to be heterosexual.
So that's how they keep their conservative card and appear to be conservative.
Best to be heterosexual in traditional marriage between one biological man, one biological woman, and to be fruitful and multiply.
Have children.
That's the ideal.
But what they're saying implicitly in that is they're avoiding saying that someone like Spencer Clavin, Andrew's son, is actually in sin.
That this is, it's not just that it's abnormal or it's below the ideal when it comes to human relationships.
No, it's an abomination, according to God's word.
It's an abomination.
And that's what you won't hear Ben or Andrew Clavin ever say.
In fact, you'll hear the opposite.
You'll hear, well, yeah, it's not normal, but.
He had no choice.
This is who he is.
And I admire his courage and being who he is despite the adversity and all the obstacles that he's had to overcome.
And so I'm proud of my gay son, Spencer Clavin.
And also, no correlation, I'm sure, but also, pretty much all the Bible is an allegory and a metaphor.
But I'm a messianic Jew.
So I would say, Andrew Clavin, from what I can tell, Andrew Clavin is not regenerate.
He seems like a nice enough guy.
I agree with some of his views.
I appreciate some of what he does.
But as far as I can tell, I would say Andrew Clavin is not a Christian.
So, Jack Hibbs with Calvary Chapel, I think he's got some bad theology, but he seems to be a born again believer with a spine, with courage in this moment.
He wouldn't just say that homosexuality is less than ideal.
He would say that it's a sin.
He has said that.
There's a far cry between Jack Hibbs and Andrew Clavin.
Now, that doesn't mean, just for the record, that doesn't mean we can't partner because sometimes people say, well, this has been Shapiro, and therefore they'll write off the Daily Wire.
Yeah, Ben Shapiro was the flagship show and he's a co owner of the Daily Wire.
I get it.
But I partner with guys like Delano Squires.
He's a regular contributor and writer for The Blaze.
Ali Bestucky is with The Blaze.
Steve Days, as I mentioned earlier, is with The Blaze.
So there's guys with The Blaze who do certain things.
I'm like, that's horrible.
You're not a Christian.
But then there's some people in The Blaze who are unashamedly putting for not just conservatism, but Christ.
And so, I don't want to just demonize the whole thing and say, I can't do anything with you because you work for the blaze.
And same with the Daily Wire.
I've had Megan Basham on our show.
I think Megan Basham is a fine Christian woman.
I think she loves the Lord.
She's Protestant.
I believe she's born again, regenerate.
She's insightful.
And I think she loves Christ.
And so, I happily partner with Megan Basham while having all the reservations I've already mentioned about someone like Andrew Clavin.
Big news.
Really big news.
Partnering With Megan Basham00:00:54
Our next Right Response Conference is in the works.
We've got a number of things already lined up and organized.
This is what we've got so far.
The whole conference, three days long on post millennialism and theonomy.
And the speakers Dr. James White, Dr. Joseph Boot, Gary DeMar, and of course, yours truly, Pastor Joel Webbin.
We've got a great lineup.
We've got great topics.
If you want to find out dates and location, And registration and anything else, go and visit our website, rightresponseconference.com.
Rightresponseconference.com.
Thanks so much for listening.
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