Joel Weben and Dwayne Atkinson dissect launching a Christian podcast, detailing how Atkinson's "Just Thinking" network grew to 55,000 daily listens via the George Floyd episode. They emphasize consistent content strategies like repurposing sermons into clips, requiring four to six hours daily, while stressing that pastors must secure local elder approval before broadcasting. The discussion highlights the need for doctrinal soundness over viral fame, advocating for diverse formats like dramatized storytelling to engage new believers without compromising biblical truth. Ultimately, success relies on disciplined production and theological integrity rather than relying on fleeting trends. [Automatically generated summary]
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Inspiration from the Big Three00:08:47
Hi, this is Joel Webbin with Right Response Ministries.
You're listening to another episode of Theology Applied.
In this episode of Theology Applied, I was privileged to have as a special guest Dwayne Atkinson.
Dwayne Atkinson, he is the El Presidente of the BAR Network, B A R, which stands for Biblical and Reformed.
Biblical and Reformed.
Now, most notable on his network is probably not actually him, but Virgil Walker and Daryl Harrison, which we've had on our show in the past.
Those are the guys, the co hosts for Just Thinking.
And so, Dwayne, however, gets credit because he's the guy who actually brought them together and had the idea for their podcast, brought them together, helped them with the social media.
And the reason why you and I, if you do know who Just Thinking is, the reason we know about him is because of Dwayne.
And so we wanted to get real practical.
There's plenty of biblical principles that we apply in this episode.
But the thrust of this episode is the practical side of how to start a podcast, how to start an online ministry, or how to go beyond just you and your own podcast and maybe start a network like The Bar.
Like Duane has done.
And so, if you're interested in those kinds of things, ministering online with the technology that God and His Providence has provided for us today, this is the episode for you.
Also, real quick before we get started, if you'd like to support Right Response Ministries, you can do so by giving a donation of any amount by going to Right Response Ministries.comslash donate.
Again, that's Right Response Ministries.comslash donate.
We cannot continue this ministry without your faithfulness, your prayers, your encouragement, and your generosity.
Now, if you're not able to give financially at this time, but you'd still like to support this ministry in some capacity, you can do so by subscribing to our YouTube channel, by clicking the bell so that you'll be notified with new content, and of course, by sharing all of our content with your friends and family.
Without further ado, let's get started.
Applying God's Word to every aspect of life.
This is Theology Applied.
All right, so welcome back to another episode of Theology Applied.
This is Joel Weben, and as I've Said in the introduction, my special guest today is Dwayne Atkinson from the Bar Network.
That's biblical and reformed.
Dwayne, thanks for coming on the show.
Hey, buddy.
Thanks for having me on the show.
Glad to be here.
Absolutely.
Well, go ahead and tell our listeners a little bit about yourself.
I don't know, maybe your testimony, but then tell them about the bar.
Sure, sure, sure.
So, my name is Dwayne Atkinson.
I am the husband of one, father of four.
Love to tell the story about my children because I think it's the picture of God's grace.
My oldest is actually adopted.
It was my wife's great niece.
My son was a child I had before I met my wife.
And then our two baby girls are two girls that came after five years of marriage and praying.
God finally blessed us.
And so, you know, just different aspects.
My son actually was part of my turn to salvation.
God turned in my heart whenever I realized I had somebody to be accountable to.
And so that's kind of the foundation of me on the personal side.
A lot of people know me because of my podcast, the Bar Podcast, which I started about six years ago.
It's interview style, and we've had pretty much anybody you've named.
We've had, you know, Steve Lawson and I mean, several people.
I hate to even start dropping names because I forget somebody, or I might list somebody that was good back in the day and now they kind of went to the side.
Well, hey, Steve Lawson has stayed good.
And honestly, you could just drop that one name and, and, uh, And I feel like that's good.
That's good.
The sufficiency of Steve Lawson.
Right, right.
Right, right.
And so, I guess, kind of a little bit of my testimony before I tell about the thing that makes me well known.
I grew up in the church, grew up Southern Baptist, met my wife on MySpace, and she was actually going two way.
Yeah, man, I'm dating myself a little bit.
Oh, my goodness.
I met her on MySpace.
I sent Tom a thank you inbox after I met her, but moved to South Carolina and joined an actually mega charismatic church, fell into the whole word of faith, charismatic.
Movement.
Then that transition into the new apostolic movement.
I was once called or ordained an apostle.
Since renounced that, found sound biblical reformed theology, was inspired by, you know, I call them the big three the Ligonier, you know, the Grace to You, and the True for Life, three big three podcasts.
I could have sworn you're going to say, right.
That lignin.
Hey, well, y'all weren't out yet, man.
This was a couple years ago.
I'm just kidding.
So, that big three inspired me to start my own podcast.
And, like, the original idea for the podcast was to have a whole bunch of my friends, Virgil Walker being one of my friends at the time, having a whole bunch of my friends do a round table and do a podcast.
And as you know, it's hard to get people together to do anything, let alone a podcast.
And so, what I decided to do was.
Start to buy a podcast, and I said, Hey guys, I'm gonna build this podcast, and then when we get it to a level, then we'll start these smaller shows underneath.
And one of those smaller shows that actually the anniversary for the first episode was yesterday was just thinking.
And the way that happened is I already knew Virgil, we were already friends through Facebook, and then I interviewed Daryl Harrison.
And when I heard him speak and I heard how he addressed topics.
I said, man, this sounds a lot like what Virgil is always saying.
So I heard the conversation.
I was like, man, this would be a really good idea.
And so I introduced the two.
I actually went to Virgil first and said, hey, V, man, let me tell you about this guy named Darryl Harrison.
Virgil was excited.
He was like, okay, let me interview him.
So Virgil actually took over my podcast, interviewed Darryl for an episode.
And when it was all over, I actually asked Darryl, I said, hey, you want to do a podcast, man?
I think you'd be really good at it.
And anybody that knows Darryl Harrison knows his first response is always no.
You're going to get no first.
But after a little bit of time, him and Virgil came together and I coached them through the rough edges until we found a formula that worked.
And that's how we got the Just Thinking podcast, which has been number one on iTunes, the Christian category, and top 50 iTunes overall.
And so that's by the grace of God, man.
That's me.
Wow.
Yeah, I remember talking to Daryl Harrison a little bit.
It was after the George Floyd stuff went down.
He's like, if I remember correctly, he was like, I did not want to do a podcast.
But he was like, but Dwayne was incessant.
He was like, You must do a podcast on it.
He's like, But we've already covered that.
And he's like, You don't understand the way the internet works, Daryl.
God bless you.
You know, you know a lot of things, but you don't get this whole digital sphere.
And you have, yes, you've said all these things before, but hitting a current issue when it's hot, right when it happens, And, you know, Justin was already doing pretty well, but correct me if I'm wrong, but they blew up after that episode.
Is that right?
That was the episode that took it overnight, literally took it to the moon, man.
I remember that day.
Well, I had no idea it was coming, but by grace of God, we were prepared.
I remember I didn't hardly sleep because my phone kept going off.
Twitter was blowing up.
Facebook was blowing up.
Instagram was blowing up.
And at the time, I wanted to respond to everybody.
So I literally was like, reply, retweet, retweet.
I mean, it was crazy.
How many, if you remember offhand, how many views did that one episode get with the Just Thinking Guys?
So no telling where it's at now.
That day, I think we clocked that day right at about 55,000 listens that very day.
It was either 50 or 55.
I can't remember.
That's crazy.
It was bananas.
It was unreal.
Yeah, that's crazy.
All right.
Giants of Reformed Theology00:04:15
Well, so for you personally, who are, you know, we said Steve Lawson, but who were some of the influential men who really helped you gravitate towards Reformed theology?
You already named some networks in terms of Ligonier.
You named, you know, Grace to You, but Who are some of the guys that you found yourself listening to and reading that really shaped you in the reform direction?
Yeah, I mean, I have to start with Dr. R.C. Sproul.
Just the profound teacher that he was.
And I'm a YouTube baby.
Like, you know, I learned from YouTube, and Ligonier had their YouTube up and running.
And so countless hours of Dr. Sproul's teaching.
Also, I'm a huge, you know, love Dr. MacArthur.
Another huge influence.
I do way more listening than I do reading.
I know that's not common in the reform world, but as you can see, I'm not the common guy.
But as far as I guess what we call older dead guys, probably my favorite to read is either Spurgeon, love reading the stories and the letters.
The last one that I was reading was the letters to his students.
And then Uh, you know, John Owen is another one which is kind of controversial sometimes, but I actually drop his name just because that's who I am.
I'm a huge fan of John.
So, John Owen, I enjoy John Owen because he's you know, now my Presbyterian brothers would vehemently disagree with me, but I feel like he's one of the giants that the Reformed Baptist can claim.
You know, he was a Pado Baptist in terms of his mode of baptism, but he was a Congregationalist and he was very, very adamant about the Congregational polity and against, obviously.
Presbyteries, synods, councils, those kinds of things.
And so he certainly was a Congregationalist, certainly had the Reformed Baptist, like a 1689 polity.
And in terms of his pedo baptism, well, it seems like his view of the covenants began to continue to progress throughout his lifetime.
And I would like to think that if John Owen was granted extraordinarily long life and lived to be, you know, maybe 150, I think he eventually might have held to a credo position on baptism.
So that's my opinion.
But Owen, so Owen is great.
The thing about Owen is, you know, I think a lot of guys are like, well, the mortification of sin.
Like they hear the name John Owen and they hear about the mortification of sin or communion with the triune God and these kinds of some of his works because they're so prestigious and so well just renowned throughout history.
Um, one of arguably one of the best known Puritans, but he's also arguably probably the hardest Puritan to read.
And so, some of the best advice I've gotten is from like Dr. Joel Beakey and guys like that who really specialize in the Puritan, saying, Owen's probably the last Puritan that you should read because you'll get stuck on one page, you know, and you get discouraged and disheartened, you know, when it's like a month goes by and you've read 15 pages.
So, you know, I always recommend with people if you want to tackle the Puritan, start with some of the easier guys like Thomas Watson, is easier, even Thomas Goodwin, and especially.
Start with some of the encouraging things, you know, because, you know, we get that term puritanical from the Puritans for a reason.
And there were times where perhaps they went overboard and overstepped Christian liberty and those kinds of things.
But there are also some of the most gracious writings within the Reformed tradition come from, you know, like Richard Sibbs, The Bruised Reed, you know, or Thomas Goodwin, The Heart of Christ in Heaven Towards Sinners on Earth.
I just finished that recently and it was incredibly encouraging.
So.
Anyways, yeah, John Owen, fantastic.
And I'm with you with RC Sproul.
I, you know, I wish he was still here with what's been going on the last couple of years.
And then at the same time, I'm like, you know, that really was the kindness of God to take him, you know, right before things got so crazy, you know, because I, but I feel confident that, you know, so many guys have capitulated in the last couple of years and I feel confident that he would not be one of them.
Stepping Out in Faith00:16:10
So, no, no.
I mean, a good testament of that is where his wife's stand, Vista.
I mean, she.
Okay.
Tell me about that.
I'm not sure.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, I actually got to meet her not last year, year before.
Well, I met her last year, but year before, that's the first time I met her.
And I was introduced to her by, hey, this is the guy that started just thinking.
It's like, oh, I love them.
Like, you know, just to hear that, you know.
And, you know, just that quick moment, I think Chris Larson introduced me.
Just that quick moment, you know, she just pretty much agreed with the stance was like, you know, we got to stand for biblical truth.
You know, it's not about, you know, social justice, just in that.
Small moment.
So that made me so glad and gave me confidence that I think that Dottis Roll would have been, you know, right there with us, cheering us along.
I agree.
All right.
So there's a lot of guys.
Everybody wants to start a podcast these days, right?
And so not everybody's called to that, you know, and it's a difficult thing, you know, if people, you know, when people come to me, you know, just even as a pastor and say they feel called to ministry, you know, there are times where somebody is called to ministry and there are times when they're not, you know, and ultimately those things are confirmed over time.
With what I would refer to as the outward calling, right?
The inward calling is kind of like, you know, the Puritans would use, like, you know, like that stirring, you know, in your heart or in your bowels, you know, you just, your bowels.
Yeah, exactly.
Like, you just, like, woe am I, you know, if I do not preach, you know, I have to preach.
And so the inward call is, you know, to put it in scriptural terms, you know, 1 Timothy chapter 3, we think that, you know, oftentimes we think, like, well, the first qualification for an elder, you know, is, you know, a little bit later on, that being above reproach and these kinds of things.
You know, but it seems as though that the first qualification is that's actually listed is he who desires to be an elder desires a noble task, you know, or he who aspires to the office of an elder.
And so it seems like the first qualification is desire, the first qualification is you got to want it, you know, and um, and certainly that's a difficult thing to parse out and to you know discern motives because you can want things, all sorts of things, even good things, uh, noble things for with wrong motives.
And so it's certainly possible just because you want to be an elder doesn't mean you're called to be an elder.
But if you don't want to be an elder, then you know that you're not called to be an elder, at least not then.
Now, there are some guys who reluctantly came into that call, kind of kicking and screaming.
John Knox is an example of one of them.
So, all that being said, I think the first thing is yes, you've got to want it, but that's the inward call.
The outward call is really the confirmation.
That's where the inward is made plain, whether or not it was wrong motives or whether or not it was really the Lord giving you that desire.
And the outward call is the call, well, within the Baptist polity, Reformed Baptist polity, the call of a congregation, right?
So, through the 1689 framework, the language of the 1689 is that when it comes to the ordination of an elder and a deacon, both being ordained officers of the church, That there is, in the case of the elder, there's prayer, there's fasting, the laying on of hands, but then it also happens through the common suffrage of the congregation, like women's suffrage, which is not the suffering of women, but the right, their authority, their right to vote.
So, all that being said, there's a congregational polity where the congregation actually says, we were voting, we are giving our assent to this man being our pastor.
Because you could say, I want to pastor this person all day long, but if they don't want to be pastored by you, then it's not.
It's not going to work.
And so, podcasting, you don't have to be an elder to be a podcaster, but I do think that that principle of inward, outward, you know, desire, but then a confirmation that someone actually wants to listen to what you have to say, right?
I feel like there's still that basic thing.
What do you think about that?
Is somebody trying to parse out, man, I want to do a podcast.
I want to start a network like The Bar.
I want to have a social media, online ministry.
That's kind of how I think about it.
What are your thoughts?
Yeah.
So, I mean, that pretty much, I've never like thought about it in that framework.
But that is kind of the process.
And as you can imagine, I get approached all the time about I want to start a podcast.
I want to build a network.
And my encouragement always is just do it, because that's actually putting forth the work.
Because 90% of the people that ask about it, they're not going to do anything with it.
I've watched it over and over again.
And those are the ones that you say, got the desire, but it's not in their bowels to do a podcast.
And so that's why I don't put a parameter.
I say, hey, okay, do it.
Let's get started.
Where do we start?
What's the topic?
And so that's my encouragement to those folks.
And I think that actually stepping out and doing the podcast is the first part of that inward calling.
When it comes to eldership, when you're kind of under trial or everybody's watching, that's when you start to put out the product and see what the response is.
The response is, uh, you know, kind of like the congregational approval, you know, if it catches a motive.
But I will say this when it comes to podcasting, um, I always encourage people because if it's really something you love and you're passionate about, uh, you know, likes, follows, subscriptions shouldn't matter.
Um, if if you're really, you know, passionate about podcasting and you and you're delivering, and in our case, biblical truth, you know, uh, you should do it.
Unto the glory of God, you know, and not necessarily to build something, but to, you know, provide value, uh, you know, to this whole, you know, internet space because there's so much bad stuff.
You know, I welcome, you know, all new podcasts, anybody that's, you know, inspired to do so because that's one more thing that we can add, you know, to this internet space that may be able to bring some value if they're coming from a biblical perspective, of course.
But, um, that's just kind of my views on it.
I definitely see the similarities to eldership and the process.
But I also wouldn't want that to discourage anybody to actually step out because I, when I started, I always joked like nobody helped me.
Like I inboxed a lot of people that I was influenced by.
We became friends later, but I inboxed them like, hey, how do you start?
How do you record?
How do you do this?
And they left me on red, you know?
And so I had to figure it all out by myself.
Um, and and now when I get inboxed, I always respond.
I make sure I respond.
Uh, if I can't do it right away, I definitely you know hit you back soon as I can because I know that side of the game.
So that's that's a whole nother thing, but but that's that's kind of my overall view of it, yeah.
So, one question I have is you know, what should somebody start with first?
Because I feel like I've heard stories on both sides.
Um, in terms of you know, some people they start a podcast because the Lord has exalted them already in another area, right?
Like, whether it be they wrote a book.
And the book, you know, actually had some sales.
It doesn't mean it, you know, made the New York Times list, but, you know, they actually had something to say and they've already built an audience in some other capacity, or even if it's just they're a pastor, you know, like, so for me, it was like I was pastoring first, then I started recording the sermons on Sunday and putting them online, and then we started clipping up the sermons and putting them into clips, and we started to get not a ton, but some momentum with that, where, you know, it started to become confirmed by the Lord that.
It was a blessing not only to my immediate congregation that the Lord had appointed me in, but that people even outside of my local church were benefiting by the teaching.
And so that began to, as that was culminating and becoming more clear and more momentum, more people were listening to those things, and decided, okay, well, maybe I'll do like a QA podcast.
And then it was like, okay, maybe I'll do an interview podcast.
And that's where Theology Applied came.
And with the idea, it was like, I'm going to interview guys, it's going to be different topics, but the big theme in every episode is going to be.
You know, theology, you know, with its boots on, you know, like theology on the ground.
How does theology actually apply to every realm of life?
And so, you know, so that was the idea.
And by God's grace, that's kind of taken off.
And, you know, it's not the biggest show in the world, but thousands of people tune in and listen.
And so my point is, I started as a pastor and I was trying to be faithful in that realm where the Lord had clearly placed me.
And as I was faithful in that, You know, there was some overflow from that, and that became the right response.
It became something else.
So, does it always, you know, I think of, you know, there are people who maybe they wrote a book or somebody like Daryl Harrison was already writing and blogging.
He was doing something already, and just thinking blew up, and he has certainly more of a following with that than he previously did.
But there was something already there.
You know what I mean?
There was like a testing period.
Is that necessary?
What would you recommend to a young guy who's saying, you know, let's say he hasn't done anything, he's thinking, The podcast is going to be my first thing.
Is a podcast the best first place to start, or should someone start somewhere else like blogging or, um, or, or formal, you know, pastoral ministry or writing a book?
Or you see what I'm asking?
Oh, for sure.
For sure.
Great question.
Great question.
So, really, it depends on how much work you want to put in.
Um, you know, for me, uh, podcast was the only thing that I had started out with, uh, nothing else.
That was my realm.
And, uh, you know, and it took time.
It took, Time grind consistent.
I've dropped an episode every Tuesday for the last six years, every Tuesday, nonstop.
So, that consistency is what helped me, you know, get to where I am.
And that, you know, that was my road.
That's one road to take.
You can do that hard thing and grind and get there.
But, you know, you also can go the route that you went.
Like the route that you went, it almost sounds like you came to me and asked me about podcasting because I tell pastors the exact same things you did step by step.
I tell pastors to do the exact same thing step by step.
Start with a sermon, sermon clips, QA, like all of that because.
I promise that when you were saying that, I was like, did I?
I don't remember.
Because I literally, I'm not sure you're familiar with, let's see, Redeemed Out of Arizona, the church that Costi Hen goes to.
Oh, yeah.
Yep.
Yeah.
I had to sit down with them before they started their podcast.
And that was the exact same conversation.
That's why I was like, okay.
But anyway, and it's funny because I always say that Justin came out of nowhere.
Daryl's blog was, was, was.
Decent, you know, but, you know, he didn't have a, you know, a bestseller.
You know, Virgil wasn't a pastor.
You know, for them, for me, in my mind, I feel like they came out of nowhere too, because it was a slow start when Just Thinking first started.
You know, Just Thinking was actually on my RSS feed.
Like we shared an RSS feed for a while before we actually, you know, put them on their own.
It was probably definitely a slow start because you can't get Daryl to put out more than one episode of Monster Show.
That's going to be real slow.
That is a fact.
That is a fact.
But yeah, so to answer your question, both are great ways.
Podcast is a great way to extend your blog, podcast is a great way to extend your sermon, podcast is a great way to continue to promote your book and kind of get into the deep parts of your book and expose people to that side.
And podcast is a way to get you in the game or get you into.
You know, multimedia gets you into those places and spaces.
You know, like I said, when I started six years ago, you know, I had, I, I, it's funny.
One of my favorite podcasts was the Reform Pubcast, Lesson Tanner.
And I remember when they did a live at Ligonier, and I was like, man, one day I want to do a live podcast at Ligonier, man.
And fast forward, you know, last year we did a live podcast at Ligonier.
Daryl and Virgil let me be on stage with them, which that's cool.
You know, it was one of those things, man.
And so, you know, it was, I'll always say this it was a little black boy from Turkey, North Carolina, sitting on stage, you know, at Ligonair doing a live podcast, man.
But it took the grind, the effort, and being willing to go that route, not having a best.
I mean, I didn't have a blog, I didn't have nothing.
I mean, I had a little Facebook page, but that was it.
So that route works, and the route of actually having something established, being a pastor, being a writer, being a blogger, being a bestseller, all of that stuff, both of those tie in good.
That's why I say podcasts is like the media of the future.
There's no NBC, ABC, nobody can keep you out.
You literally can produce your own content and enroll right now while we're still in a free America.
We can do that, which I fear that might.
Right.
Free as a bird compared to Australia, man.
I'm grateful for where we are.
It's rough, but it's definitely the best place in the world.
Yeah, for sure.
Cool, man.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
So let's get a little bit more practical with trying to start.
Podcast and maybe even trying to start a network and those kinds of things.
What was your vision, you know, moving from just an isolated, you know, one podcast to the vision for starting a network?
What do you think the benefits are of that?
What made you think about doing that?
And what are some of the practical things that you did to set that up?
Yeah.
So the network idea came early because, like I told you before, I had a lot of really talented friends around me.
And so You know, once I realized I couldn't have them all round table online, I was like, well, we'll create a network of podcasts.
And so that was really where the vision came from just having people around me already that were super, you know, blessed, super talented.
Virgil Walker, Terrence Barlow, just to name a few.
And that's really where the genesis of it started.
As far as the practical side and what we did to do that, what I did was, For the Bar Podcast, I pretty much set the standard.
When people see Bar Podcast Network, they know number one, the quality is going to be good.
Number two, the content is going to be good.
So, those are the two things that I set the standard with my podcast.
And so, anybody that has that stamp, that logo on their podcast, that's what they can look for.
I've had people tell me, like, hey, when I'm on social media, if I see the Bar Podcast Network logo, I just repost because I just know.
That it's going to be biblically sound, it's going to be solid content, and it's going to be good quality.
And so that's the brand, if you want to use that word, that I put forward first for me and my podcast.
And then it trickled down for every podcast afterwards.
When people see that, when people see that logo, then they understand that, hey, it's sound, it's biblical, it's not, it's going to be good quality.
And so for somebody that's thinking about starting it, you really have to establish.
Building a Trusted Network00:08:55
Your identity in Christ, you know, and your identity in the whole social media world.
Like, you know, what's going to be your standpoint?
What's going to be your stance?
What are you known for?
And once you build some sort of a momentum, then, you know, because a lot of podcasts that are in a network came to me.
It's like, hey, I want to be in the network.
And so, what value that I try to give to them is that standard that I talked about.
You know, they want to be in a network.
So, when people see, again, when they see the logo, when they see that, You know, oh, this is oh, you connected with just thinking.
Oh, okay.
Well, you you solid, right?
That kind of thing.
And so it's more or less affiliation.
Uh, on the inward part, I also uh meet with all my podcasters that's in my network.
Um, I have a tech guy that helps them with any technology needs that they may have.
Um, I also have a kind of like an assistant guy that also does the kind of same thing.
And we meet with them, we talk about strategy, we talk about network, we talk about marketing, you know, all the things that's Part of it, you know, podcast is glamorous up front, but there's planning that goes into it.
Um, and and and I'm not formally trained, like, I didn't go to school for this, you know.
Uh, just I just was blessed with a knack for social media, like, I understand social media, and so I try to give that to the people that are uh connected with me on a network level.
I know I kind of went off because I do interviews all the time, so yeah, my bad.
No, no, no, that's great, yeah.
Well, it seems like you have a knack for social media, it also seems like just the Lord providentially has um has just brought people into your life, you have a knack for friendship.
And that'll go a long way.
So, some guys, they're jack of all trades.
They have a knack for many talents.
And then other guys, they have a knack for having many friends.
And it sounds like you got a little bit of both.
Well, it sounds like you got some of both, but the friend thing can go a long way.
Like we talked before, we hit record on this episode, and I'm not a tech savvy kind of guy.
I don't personally, people all the time, they're like, hey, where's Joel Webbin's Facebook page?
And I don't have one.
I don't want one.
So now I engage.
I have like a little, I don't even know what it's called, like business suite or something like that.
It's a little app on my phone that will let me log in.
On you know, underneath Right Response Ministries, and so I, you know, I'll do that with Facebook and with Instagram, and then I have like this YouTube app where I'm again, like, as Right Response Ministries, so I'll keep up with those three uh, three platforms, and um, and and I'm pretty engaged with the comments, and you know, and people email me, and I and same as you, I try to always get back and try to answer their questions promptly, and um, and I think that's part of it also.
You know, some of the advice that I would give to somebody who's podcasting is like, do you how much do you engage, but at the same time, just keep in mind.
You can lose your life to social media.
Like it's, you know, yeah.
You know, so I have three little girls a four year old, two year old, and a one year old.
And so I have to be really diligent about, like, because it's not like a nine to five job.
You have to turn it off.
You have to make that decision and you have to be really disciplined on both sides of the equation disciplined to actually respond to comments and to always be pushing for the next goal.
And you have to have an idea for it because next week is always coming, you know, because you're right.
It's if you're not consistent, then it's just, It's not going to happen, so you pick a day in the week and hell or high water.
I'm going to drop an episode every day.
And if you have an interview podcast, then you've got to find somebody who's going to come on your show 52 times.
And when you finish that, uh, then it's the next year and it starts over again, you know.
And then you got to come up with topics for each one of those things.
And then, and then all of your stuff, you know, with YouTube, YouTube is unique in the sense that you know, because it's searchable, so people, you know, people will discover you, um, that maybe had no clue that you even existed because you had a guest on and they liked that guy.
Or just because of the way you title something with your topic.
Like a lot of times, people find this because I'll do a lot of stuff on post millennialism, you know, and people are curious about eschatology, you know, or, and so then it, you know, and it's funny, it's like your content needs to be good because you don't want people to click on your, you know, your video and be disappointed, you know, and never come back and kind of write you off with that first impression being a negative one.
But at the same time, your content, as good as that is, you've got to be as good, if not even better, with thumbnails.
Titles, descriptions, you know, those kinds of things.
And like, are you catchy?
But then you can't be too catchy because every now and then, you know, someone will be like, man, that felt kind of clickbaity, Pastor Joel.
I don't appreciate that, you know?
And that's a fair point.
And so there's just so many things to think about.
But one of my questions, leading up to a question, one of my questions is, you know, how if somebody's serious, they want to start a podcast and they actually, you know, they, yes, they want to do it for the glory of God, you know, like do your work as unto the Lord.
But there are some, Some types of work that, even though ultimately you're doing the work as unto the Lord, the work involves nurturing people.
And if there's no one listening, then the work, you know, even, well, I'm doing a podcast, you know, brother, I'm doing a podcast just for the Lord.
Well, then you don't need a microphone or a camera or anything.
You can just talk in your bedroom to the Lord by yourself.
Like it's only a podcast as unto the Lord if there's somebody listening, right?
And so you want to do it well.
You want to be consistent.
You want to give it thought.
But at the same time, You don't want to necessarily give it your life.
And so, I guess my question is how much time, if somebody's serious, I want to do this and I actually want people to listen, and not just my grandma or my uncle, but I want people to listen.
I want it to grow and I want it to be a blessing, not because I'm trying to build my own empire, but I am trying to build the kingdom of God and be a blessing to the saints.
How much time on a weekly basis are they looking at spending?
So, that's a tricky question.
And I'm glad you brought up the balance.
You know, that's something I.
I struggle with the balance and learning when to turn it off.
I would say if you're serious about podcasting and thought process, planning, it's funny you mentioned the business suite.
I love that thing because it's so convenient.
But if you're really serious, man, you really got to, I always call it the five to nine.
We got an eight to five, and then we got a five to nine.
So I hate to say it, man, but you need to spend at least You know, I would say four to six hours a day, you know, and it don't have to be consistent.
And I hate to just even put that out there because somebody's going to take that literal and then they're going to be in trouble with their wife and they're going to blame me.
But, you know, but you really have to put time in.
You, you, everything that you, it's funny, you, everything you mentioned, I promise I think you took one of my classes, didn't tell me, but everything you mentioned, man, you know, being a responding, planning, artwork, audio.
You know, visuals, description, you know, all of that stuff.
I mean, that's part of it, man.
If you want to be serious podcasts, you have to be, you know, you have to consider all of those things.
You have to be consistent.
Yeah.
And here's my advice, though, when you're starting, you might not sometimes people come in, try to be too clickbait ish, type ish, or too over.
You know, you might want to keep it real simple, you know, real simple.
In the beginning, as far as just your artwork and your planning and all of that.
But I'll take it back.
I won't say six hours.
I'll say four hours.
Let's say four hours a day.
Four hours a day, just posting, responding, creating content.
And, you know, because the beautiful thing about a podcast is a podcast can produce several pieces of smaller content.
Like one show, you can take that one show and you can have.
Uh, audiographs, you can do uh, picture quotes.
You know, if you follow just thinking, we're posting at least three times a day, every day, like that's that's what we do, and that's uh, that that comes from that kind of planning and understanding.
Um, that you're going to have to put the work in.
But, guys, grace, shout out to Rachel.
We have somebody that actually does that for us, nice.
Uh, and she does a phenomenal job.
Um, but but you definitely uh, have to do that.
And another thing, always tell podcasters is.
Social media right now is free advertising.
Please take advantage of it.
It's free advertising.
Mastering Social Media Growth00:02:19
There's no other platform or no other way to get the word out besides social media.
I mean, and you can pay for ads and all that's cool, but you literally, if you're consistent and you're dropping, you know, taking that one piece of content and chopping it up, making it into several, that will take you a long way because Twitter is getting unbelievably fast.
And if you swipe one time, you will not know the last.
Tweet that you saw.
So you have to make sure that you're hitting that feed so that people can discover you.
So, right.
Yeah.
Twitter is probably the one platform, and you'll probably hate this, but it's the one platform that I just, I don't know.
I know I should care probably, but I don't do anything on Twitter.
I don't hate you for that.
Nope, I hate Twitter too.
I don't care for Twitter at all.
I feel like it is designed.
So I feel like Facebook, I can get a thought, like a whole complete thought.
You know what I mean?
And Instagram is not really, you know, it's not really a place for dialogue and thought and those kinds of things.
But you can still, you know, Instagram, we use Instagram a lot for like our memes.
So you got, you know, and I remember it was about a year ago, like same as you, you're like, you know, I've got in the last six years, some of these guys, you know, I wouldn't have back on the show, you know, but I had them four years ago or something.
So it was about a year and a half ago that I just told.
The guy who helps us with our social media, I said, All right, from now on, only use guys that are dead.
Dead guys.
Because here's the beauty about dead guys Dead guys don't disappoint.
They don't disappoint you.
It's like they cannot apostatize even if they wanted to.
So, anyway, so it's like, All right, we're using dead guys.
So, RC's Pro, it's like he's dead.
He's missing now.
He made it.
He made the cut.
But Instagram's great for memes and those kinds of things.
Yeah.
And we'll use, we would do reels.
So, I'll do little shorts on YouTube and then boom, we're going to put it.
As a reel on Instagram, and we're going to put it as a short on YouTube.
And then we'll do also, I forget what it's called, because he, you know, my guy, Michael, he does those things, but I think it's stories.
It's like more like three minute clips instead of the 60, you know, the 15 second to the 16 one would be like the reel.
That's like the equivalent of YouTube shorts, which ultimately is the equivalent from what I've been told, again, because I'm not on these platforms, but it's the equivalent of YouTube and Instagram trying to take back some of the followers that they lost to TikTok, you know, and trying to recreate kind of what TikTok's doing, their equivalent.
Right.
Pastoral Integrity and Church Roots00:15:30
So, anyway, so.
You know, but that's exactly what you're saying.
So, like, you know, if somebody wanted to do what, you know, what I'm doing is, you know, I'm trying to do, you know, basically like two shorts a week.
But even that, it's like, all right, you're just recording for a minute.
That's one minute of your time.
No, it's not.
It's not one minute of my time.
No.
You know, because you got to think of an idea and then you hit record.
And I'm always recording probably three, four, five times before I get it right because it's a challenge to get a whole thought into one minute, you know, into one minute.
And I still sound like an idiot, you know, half of the time, but you know, to at least sound competent 50% of the time, you know, so that's a challenge.
So I'm trying to do two shorts and then same thing.
So I'm preaching.
That's my day job.
And that's ultimately what always is going to take my number one priority, you know, is as a pastor in the church, number one outside of, of course, being a follower of Jesus and then a husband and father in the home.
Right.
But, you know, so it's Jesus, family, church, and then it's right response ministries, you know, and so.
But all that being said, you know, I preach a sermon, and so I've got to write that sermon like any other pastor does.
And if you're a pocket, you've got to write something, and that doesn't mean you manuscript it out.
There's guys that I really like that manuscript as pastors with their sermons, and I don't manuscript.
I kind of do a hybrid.
It's not a bullet point on a napkin, and it's also not a manuscript, you know, it's like it's something in between.
It's usually like about a paragraph for each point, and I print notes.
People can take them for retention, those kinds of things, but it's not a full manuscript.
But in the same way I prepare for a sermon, then on the back end, We're going to clip that up.
And then, you know, and so that means you're watching the sermon, kind of like the, you know, like Monday morning, you know, kind of thing.
Like after the game, you know, so you're watching the sermon, you're clipping it up, and then you got to come up with titles, you got to come up with descriptions.
And then we, you know, on our website, we want it to be able to search by topic, like Ligonier and some of the, you know, the big players in the game.
And so, you know, so then you're doing title, topic, or title, description, topics, and then text.
We want them to be able to search by books of the Bible and text.
So, you're doing all that and then trying to get a thumbnail for YouTube.
And we try to get five clips per sermon.
We call that our daily truth podcast.
So, it's also on a podcast platform and it's a category playlist underneath our YouTube and all that kind of stuff.
And so that's a daily show, you know, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday.
And that's all from the sermon, but it's writing the sermon leading up to the sermon.
That's my work as a pastor.
And then my work as, you know, president of Right Response Ministries is I got a guy who will help clip it up for me.
But then I take those clips and then I'm doing title and topic and description and text, you know, until Lord willing, as the ministry grows and we have resources, then hopefully I can, you know, get some help with that.
But that's just with daily truth.
And then we do Theology Applied, and that's what you're on right now.
And then same with Theology Applied, we clip that up.
And we call it bite sized theology.
And we try to get four or five clips from each of these interviews.
And so you've got a daily truth thing dropping, you know, Monday through Friday.
You've got a bite sized theology dropping on like Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday, you know, later in the afternoon.
Daily truth is in the morning.
And then you've got Wednesday, which is kind of like the flagship with Theology Apply.
And that's 5 p.m. every Wednesday, premieres, and everybody can see that.
And it's on the podcast platforms, it's on YouTube, all those kinds of things.
And then, you know, Sundays, usually Sunday or sometimes the day after Monday, is when the sermon, you know, the full length sermon drops.
And then on Saturdays, we have our show called Questions.
So basically, it's like we have three things, you know, and then you're getting, you know, it's bang for bucks.
So it's the opposite of Biden's America, where you get zero bang for a buck, you know.
So it's like, you know, it's back when America, you know, actually had an economy, but like, you know, you're trying to get as much mileage as you possibly can.
And so really, it's like three things a sermon, a theology applied interview, weekly sermon, weekly interview.
And a weekly QA.
I take one question that people send in, and that's usually 15, 20, 30 minutes tops.
But the interview is usually 45 minutes to an hour, and the sermon is usually an hour.
My church knows it.
There's no way that I'm going to preach less than an hour.
So those are the three things sermon, interview, QA.
And from that, you're getting five clips that make our podcast called Daily Truth from the sermon, four bite-sized from Theology Applied that's coming out.
And then that's just all with the video and audio.
And then you've got You know, a daily meme that's dropping.
And then from time to time, I'm writing a blog, you know, and so it's like somebody who wants to, you know, now you don't have to do all that.
Nobody has to do all that.
You could just do a weekly show.
But in doing what I would say to people is if you do a weekly show, it's basically when you think of like how, because there's just no substitute for time.
Yeah, maybe you hit it big with something and just the algorithms, you know, favor you or whatever.
But for the most part, it's like time in.
You know, and reward comes out.
And if you're doing weekly, I would be thinking years.
If you're doing daily, maybe it could be months or a year, you know, because you have so much more content that you're going to climb.
Would you agree with that?
Would you add anything to that?
100% agree.
Just the nature of it is so funny.
So, okay, let me say this.
I agree.
But you can have an outlier and just thinking there's an outlier.
So we're not even going to talk about them.
You're right.
They're different.
So, because it's funny, because like I said, I consult, I talk to people all the time about podcasts and all the tips that I give people, they ignored and super successful.
Like, you know, being consistent, coming every, you know, dropping every week, keeping it, you know, around 30 to 45 minutes, you know, because my old saying was the average commute is 30 to 45 minutes.
You want to become part of people's routine and you want to, you know, I had, I mean, which, All of that stuff worked.
It worked for me.
It was a slow grind, you know.
And then just thinking, they drop an episode whenever, and it's at least three, maybe four hours long.
You know, but it worked for them.
It did.
But everything you said is spot on.
You take one piece of content and you break it up and create other pieces of content that keeps you in front of your audience, keeps you in the algorithm, keeps you in the newsfeed, in the flow, make you searchable, make your keywords searchable.
All of that stuff is 100% on point.
That's what I tell anybody.
That's the kind of work you have to put in to be consistent.
And the crazy thing is if you're not ready to put in that work, it's almost like we're just thinking it was almost like winning the lottery.
You're not going to always come up with a George Floyd in the gospel the week after the video goes viral and the pandemic is going on and people are in their house and everybody's on social media.
You know, that was the stars aligning.
That was, you know, striking gold.
So, that is a different special moment.
But, in order for you to, and again, the goal isn't to be, you know, famous and all of that.
But, like you said, we want to build God's kingdom.
We want to provide, you know, resources and we want to, you know, have stuff available.
And in order to do that, you have to be serious about what you're doing, take your craft serious, and then put in that time and create that content.
And creating content takes work.
Yeah, I completely agree.
On the pastoral side of things, the only other thing that I would add is you better be a faithful member in a local church if you're starting a Christian podcast.
And you may not be an elder at the church, but I think you should have your back.
Your elders should have your back.
They should agree with what you're doing, support you in what you're doing, and believe that you're qualified to be doing what you're doing.
It's like there is the craft, there's the skill, right?
And this is theology and applying.
So, we're trying to take theology, we're trying to get to some of the practical stuff that a lot of times guys, you know, in the reform world just don't talk about.
Like, and that's why we're doing this.
It's not that we're trying to be too practical and leave out the spiritual side of it.
It's just the reality is in our camp, sometimes it's too spiritual and the practical gets left out.
And so, I wanted to talk about these things, but to the spiritual side of things for just a moment, the craft, the skill, you know, the time that you're putting in, you know, and you're, you know, Chopping things up and good titles and good thumbnails.
If you do all that, but you don't have something to say that is true to God's word that people need to hear, then you are at best a distraction from the kingdom of God and at worst demonic.
You know, that you're actually saying something that is in contradiction to the word of God that actually harms people.
And so then how do you discern that?
Well, the way you discern that is you co discern that.
You don't make that decision, you don't stamp yourself with an approval.
You submit yourself to others, and I think it should be those who are qualified and God has called to shepherd you and watch over you in the local church context.
And so I would say that's one of the very first things is going and talking to your pastor and saying, hey, do you think that there is both character, but also that there is some gifting here?
That I would have something to say that it's not going to be maybe R.C. Sproul level or Stephen J. Lawson level.
But it is true, it is faithful, and it would help people.
So, to counter that real quick, because I don't want to, I think of the bruised reed and, you know, the smoldering wick, right?
There's a difference between somebody who's, you know, well, the Puritans, they used to say there's a difference between a false convert and a weak convert.
A weak convert.
The false convert, you know, like that's the person you want to sharply oppose.
But the weak convert might look like a false convert, but that's somebody that we actually want to comfort and console and welcome and love.
And so the false podcaster, right?
The person who bears the name of Christ, but is actually going to do harm.
Versus the weak podcaster, if we could use that distinction.
The weak podcaster, what I would say is go to your pastor, your local church elders, ask, do I have some gifting?
Do I have enough character, enough gifting to be worth doing this?
If they say yes, then from that point on, don't be discouraged because all the time, so there's a balance there.
It's like some guys shouldn't do it at all.
However, it can't be that we set the bar at RC Sproul level and say only these guys.
Right.
So, what I'm saying is there's a balance between there is a minimum bottom line.
You must be this tall to ride the ride, right?
If you don't have character and you don't have at least some basic, good, biblically true theology, then you're just not ready.
You're not ready to do this because it's not going to be helpful.
However, if we're not careful, you can say you can make that minimum bottom line and put it right up there with the best of the best from Ligonier or whatever, or John MacArthur.
And the reality, and I've thought that so many times, I've thought, what am I doing?
Because there are weeks where it's just like, It feels like your stuff just isn't getting as many views.
People don't care about what you have to say.
And yet you're working those weeks just as hard.
That's the hardest part about this.
Every week, you put in the same amount of time.
And then some weeks, things pop.
And then other weeks, things don't.
And so, in those seasons where it's not happening like you want it to happen, I'm always tempted to think, why am I even doing this when there are so many men already, faithful men, who are doing this well?
Why am I doing this when people can watch The Dividing Line with James White?
Why am I doing this when they've got Jeff Durbin, when they've got Doug Wilson, when they've got this guy and that guy?
And what I feel like the Lord always reminds me of is just my own testimony, my own journey, and everybody else that I've heard.
People come to Christ through different avenues, right?
Christ is the one way, but the way to Christ, people are led to the Lord by different men.
And, you know, like people, you know, their gateway drug to reform theology isn't always the same.
You know, a bunch of people come through this guy, and then a bunch of other people, they're like, this was.
This was the guy that I was listening to who led me.
And so you just, you don't know, right?
Are there better guys than me?
Absolutely.
Yep.
But not everybody knows that, right?
Eight billion people on the planet, I know, I'll end with this and I'll give it to you, but I think of Goodwill Honey.
Did you ever watch Goodwill Honey?
Yes.
So I think there's a line there where one of the professors who's wanting to take Will, you know, who's just a prodigy, a genius, and he wants to take him and use him towards, you know, these ends, but doesn't really care about Will, but Cares more about his brain and his ability to think, his talents.
And Robin Williams, who really loves Will as a person and is looking out for his best interests, he's trying to defend him.
And the professor says, But you don't understand this gift, it can't be wasted.
And he says, There's only a handful of people in the whole world who even know how much smarter Will is than we are.
And so what he's saying is, Not that there's a handful of people as smart as we are, and certainly not that there's a handful of people who are as smart as Will is.
No, he's saying there's only a handful of people who are even intelligent enough to look at me and you and other world class thinkers and intellectuals and then see that will stands towers above all of us.
And my point is, as people grow in sanctification and grow in theology, they can appreciate those who are more theologically inclined.
But the reality is, there's a lot of people who love Jesus who are still new in the faith.
And for those people, they're not even sanctified to the point or theologically astute enough at that point in their walk with Christ to be able to look at this person and that person and tell the distinction between them that, oh, whoa, these guys are both great, but one is actually leaps and bounds above the other, right?
I remember a time in my life where I thought, this, you know, this, this, I don't even want some of these guys I don't like anymore, so I don't even want to drop their name, but like this guy and this guy are two peas in a pot, right?
And then five years go by as you're reading and you're learning and you're like, They're not two peas in a pot.
This guy is way, way more gifted than this other guy.
And I just, I didn't know enough to even appreciate or discern the distinction.
And I say all that to say that there are so many people at the ground level who are just coming into Reformed theology, just, or people who just got saved, just coming to Christ, just learning how to read their Bible, just learning how to exposit a text and all those kind of things.
And for them, they don't know the difference.
And the Lord uses different men.
At different steps along the journey.
Protecting Yourself and Your Hearers00:04:36
And I think that that's a good thing.
And in that sense, I think we need more.
You got any thoughts?
100%, everything you said is spot on, man.
Love the illustration with the Goodwill Hunting.
I never thought about it like that.
Yeah, no, I never thought about it like that.
I mean, you don't know what you don't know.
And when you're coming in, like you said, people that I saw coming in and then Over time, I saw that.
Oh, wait, this ain't what I thought it was, you know.
And I always joke and say the Bar Podcast is a great gateway drug to uh to Reformed theology because you know it's a 30 minute shot of you know anybody in doing ministry, you know, doing a good thing in ministry.
And so, 100%, man, everything you said, uh, all levels is needed.
You know, we like you said, it could be somebody that's brand new to Christianity, not even necessarily Reformed theology, but just Christianity.
Uh, and your podcast, your voice, your post, your meme, uh, could be the very thing that you know lead them in the right direction.
And uh, going back to what you talked about with elders, um, which I'm so happy to be officially a part of a church.
Uh, there were some years when I was doing the podcast, what I was not because I was coming out of actually started a podcast when I was still attending a charismatic church, like I was coming out of looking for and uh, and and you know, relocated.
And uh, and it feels really good to be a part of a ministry.
Elders that know what I'm doing, familiar with my work, you know, approve of it, and have that backing, you know, from that, you know, it feels really good to be in that place.
So I definitely double down on the importance of that when it comes to podcasting because I went so many years without that.
You know, at one time I felt like I was podcasting like undercover, like, you know, like, I had all these thoughts, these plans, these ideas, but I didn't have the backing of a local pastor, you know, when I started.
If I could rewind it back, I definitely would do it different.
So I've seen both sides.
So if you're listening, it's super important.
Is super, you know, with your spiritual walk, you know, that accountability that that person to like you said, the shepherding over this, watching over you, that cares for your soul, having their having them, you know, uh, uh, bless it or you know, approve of it or you know, just uh, confirm it, you know, for some people, you know, because you know, that that confirmation that somebody outside of yourself, because you know, we we think we're the best when we're just talking in our heads, we need somebody to tell us, you know, hey,
you might want to you know, wait a little while, let's take a season.
You know, or you need to take a break, you need to take a sabbatical, you know, just somebody to care for your soul and do all that.
So I really appreciate you touching on that.
That was very, very huge.
And everything else definitely, you know, and agree.
Cool.
Yeah.
I wish I'm trying to think of the verse.
And now, usually, I have the entire Bible memorized.
You know, my followers know this.
No, I, but you know, by doing this, you will protect you and your hearers.
I know it's Paul.
He's talking to either Titus or Timothy or one of his sons in the faith, but by doing so, you will protect both you and your hearers.
So, obviously, like everybody who's listening to this, they're going to bust out their iPhone and be able to Google and they're going to go, Well, it's this, Pastor Joel.
It's like, Yeah, well, okay.
But you use your phone.
I don't have my phone right now.
So, anyway, so anybody who's listening, use your phone and look it up and find the reference.
But that's what I'm, I feel like that's what me and Dwayne are talking about that concept, that principle of having people in your life that are going to protect not only you.
But also your hearers.
And if I remember correctly, the context of the text I'm thinking of isn't so much having people in your life, it's a certain practice by doing these things, by practicing these things, you'll protect both you and your hearers.
So do whatever the Apostle Paul says.
We're not contradicting that.
But in addition to that, have practices in your life.
We could say it like this have certain practices in your life that will protect both you and by virtue of protecting you, your hearers, and have not only practices, but have people in your life who will protect you and your hearers.
And I think that's important.
Last question I'll ask you, Duane, is this What do you think are some, you know, reform theology?
That's a big umbrella.
A lot of stuff can fall underneath that.
Art Meets Biblical Message00:07:47
What do you feel like are some of the things?
Because sometimes I wonder is the, for lack of a better phrase, you know, is the market oversaturated?
What are some topics or some ideas or something that you feel like, man, I don't know if anybody's really done this?
And I know you may have a couple ideas.
You're like, well, I'm not going to share my best ideas.
But do you got anything that you feel like, man, it'd be cool if somebody, if the Lord.
You know, call somebody to rise up and fill this hole, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, I do, and of course, I think of this kind of stuff all the time.
Um, that's just you know, that's my that's where I'm at.
Um, I think especially in the reform camp, uh, and Ligonier has touched on it, and it's funny.
Not, not, I'm not trying to brag anybody that's listening, but they actually like ran this idea by me, and I was like, yeah, I would do this.
Uh, the whole uh, Luther, um, um, dramatization, that was you know.
Yeah, yeah, that I think that's an area where we need more.
You know, there are a lot of series like the number one podcast, you know, besides Joe Rogan, but the number one podcast after that is usually like a docuseries or something like that or something dramatic or whatever.
Yeah, I think we need to tap into that a little bit more on our side because there's so many great stories, there's so many great books, there's so many things that we could bring out.
You know, expose more people to by, you know, not being a traditional me and you sitting down talking.
You know, everybody can do that.
You know, anybody can do that.
Right.
But I think being on more of the creative side and coming up with, you know, kind of the dramatization or whatever.
And I want to shout out a recent ad to my network, Redeemed Podcast.
It is a biblical dramatization podcast, and that's what got my attention.
And I think that that's definitely a place where we could definitely do some more work in.
And then even the approach, and this is something I'm working on as another podcast, is the approach to podcasts.
Like, It doesn't have to be this, what our setup, what we're doing here, you know, just talking back and forth.
It can be storytelling.
It can be as far as the music and mood could change.
You know, it could flow with the conversation.
You know, the next project I'm coming out with, I'll leak it with you guys.
I'm actually going to drop the whole season at one time.
Oh, cool.
Just like Netflix style.
Yeah, I'm going to do a Netflix style, man.
I'm going to drop the whole season.
We're up to about eight episodes.
Me and two other brothers, and we're going to drop the whole season at one time.
And that's different.
That's the kind of thing I like is thinking outside the box, man.
And so I think if you're interested in getting into that realm, those are definitely some spaces that you could slide in and possibly be super successful because there's not a lot of competition in that realm.
Right.
No, I completely agree with you.
I think those are great ideas.
It got me thinking, one example, the only example I could think of, because I don't typically listen to.
That style, that type, but there's a lot of people who do, and I think it would be beneficial.
But the only thing that I could even think of, as I was trying to imagine what you were describing, was I listened to the rise and fall of Mars Hill with Christianity Today.
Now, for me, so I thought this was really well done in terms of the style, the music, it was just very well produced.
And I thought, man, Christians need to do this, except it needs to be good.
So that lets you know where I'm at.
I think Mark Driscoll made some mistakes for sure.
But I would love if somebody did The Rise and Fall of Christianity Today.
I think that'd be a great show because I feel like, you know, I have some problems with that series.
It's like, as much as they were saying with Driscoll, I'm like, yeah, I disagree with that.
I think Driscoll, you know, he crossed the line there and he did this and he did that.
But at the same time, it's like, you know, basically the jury that's judging Driscoll, it's like, Driscoll, was he toxic masculinity?
Maybe.
But the jury that's judging him is effeminate men.
And Christianity, I think it might as well be called, you know, Hallmark movies or, you know, or like, I mean, it's, you know, the sin of effeminacy.
You know, I know this is not our topic, but I'll say it.
The sin of effeminacy is rampant in our pulpits.
It's rampant in our churches.
We do not have men.
We need men, right?
I mean, I saw a shirt the other day that, you know, said, govern me harder, please, you know, and like had a picture of some guy with three masks on his face.
And I'm like, yeah, that's the men in our nation right now.
And that is being led by pastors.
Pastors who are just bending over backwards, folding, you know, like a light breeze comes and they topple over and, And so, yeah, anyways, all that being said, I know I got passionate there for a second.
So, I have to say that because I can't say anything good.
The style, the production was fantastic, but I have to give the disclaimer Joel Webbin does not like Christianity today.
I want to see, Doug Wilson said this once, I want to see the Christianity of yesterday.
I want to see, give me that good old time religion.
Give me the Christianity of John Owen.
Give me the Christianity of Charles Spurgeon.
Give me Christianity yesterday.
Christianity today, I'm a bit disappointed with.
But, you know, so anyway, so have good doctrine.
Don't be effeminate, you know, and, you know, that have that stalwart, that lion heart courage of, I'm thinking of John Knox and those kind of guys.
But at the same time, there's nothing wrong with making it a little bit more enjoyable for the listener.
Cause you're right, Dwayne.
Like, if people, a dramatis, I can't even pronounce the word, dramaticized, is that how you say it?
Dramaticized?
I don't know.
Yeah.
You know, but like with some music and maybe a narrator, maybe you're talking, right?
So maybe you have a discussion.
For five minutes, you know, maybe you shoot it with a three hour discussion between three guys, and then, but then you clip it up and you have a narrator come in and you have some other visuals during that part and some music swells in at certain points.
And, you know, I think that like that's now that's more work.
All the stuff we were saying earlier.
Oh, yeah, no, it's work.
Get rid of your four hour a day thing and now it's like, you know, so now it's going to be 14 hours.
But, but man, that that could that could blow up.
So you're right.
You're right.
It's a missing space, man, for sure.
You're right.
And man, hasn't that, you know, last thing I thought of, but just hasn't that been a missing space in just the Christian world for so long that, like, because basically what we're saying the missing space is doing things well.
Christians have good things to say, but we just, man, when it comes to art, when it comes to, you know, entertainment, when it comes to, we do things because we know that what's most important is the message, which that is true, but we use that as an excuse to do things.
Poorly so often.
And then we wonder why we lost the culture because the culture doesn't just care about the message.
The culture does care about art and all those kinds of things.
And we can't do art at the expense of the message.
But I think sometimes it's like, all right, yeah, we don't want to be secret friendly and we don't want to have smoke machines and laser lights.
And, you know, it's, but we're talking, this is different than the Lord's Day worship at church.
The Lord's prescriptions and guidelines for how we worship Him in spirit and in truth is different than creating a show for people to watch.
You know, like that, that's just a different realm.
And so I think, yeah, I'm all about the regular principle of worship when the saints gather on the Lord's day, but we don't have to have the regular principle of worship, you know, applied to a podcast.
Offering Our Best to God00:01:43
And so, yeah.
So I'm with you, brother.
You got any, I'll give you the last word.
Any extra thoughts, or you want to let our guys, our listeners know how they can follow you?
Yeah, man.
So, first, brother, I appreciate you bringing me on.
Definitely an honor.
I thought you inboxed the wrong person, just to be honest.
But no, man, I definitely appreciate that.
You can find me everywhere, Dwayne21, D A W A I N, the number 21, Instagram, Twitter.
Even if you're searching on Facebook, you can find me.
And I guess the last words, man, is do everything to the glory of God.
And when you do those things to the glory of God, just like we just talked about, that means doing it in excellency.
That means doing it with good quality, doing it with good effort because you work unto God.
And so just make that.
Whether it's podcasting, whether it's blogging, whether it's YouTubing or whatever it may be, just keep that in mind that we want to give him our best.
This is our offering to him outside of regulative worship.
I would definitely agree with you there, but this is also our best on the art side and the gifts and talent side.
Amen.
Thanks, Dwayne.
Thanks for coming on the show.
Thank you.
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