Andrew and Jeremiah identify secularism, New Age occultism, and dualistic conservatism as America's three most dangerous cults. They argue that Darwinian evolution and autonomous manhood drive historical horrors like Stalinism, while TikTok-fueled New Age movements fill spiritual voids without institutions. The hosts condemn conservative figures like Glenn Beck for rejecting Trinitarian gospel in favor of golden calf-like state worship, warning that secular conservatism promises life without God. Ultimately, they urge Christians to master apologetics to prevent spiritual abuse and guide society away from these lethal worldviews. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
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Three Dangerous Cults Today00:02:21
On this episode of Theology Applied, I was privileged to have both Andrew and Jeremiah, the co host of the podcast called Cultish.
We actually took our interview and broke it up into two parts.
This is the second part.
In the first part, we dealt with identifying cults.
In this part, we deal with the three most dangerous cults here in America today.
Enjoy.
Applying God's Word to every aspect of life.
This is Theology Applied.
What would you say are maybe three?
And if you have, you know, maybe just two, or if you have four, feel free to add another one.
But three of the most dangerous cults in America today.
And I know that word dangerous is somewhat subjective.
Maybe it's spiritual danger, maybe it's physical danger, or however you interpret that.
But three of the most dangerous cults that you're aware of in our nation today.
Andrew, I'm going to give you the first one.
All right.
So, number one.
Okay.
I guess I would say.
My brain instantly, just because I'm so deep into it right now, is the Latter day Saints, but I don't want to just go there.
I'm thinking more of the cult of secularism or the cult of Darwinianism, the cult of a system of government that doesn't bow its knee to Christ in all aspects and areas of life.
That worldview, right?
Babble in itself that man is autonomous and free thinking and that.
We came from highly evolved apes.
I believe that the presuppositions involved with that worldview are far more dangerous when you take it to the furthest implications than many of the other, we'll say, more predominant mainstream cults, because it's the worldview that leads to Stalin.
It's the worldview that leads to all kinds of horrors that have happened in the past that somehow people have forgotten nowadays.
Vanity, as Solomon would say, it's all vanity.
So, I would say that that is probably the most dangerous worldview right now.
And we're seeing the fruits of it in our own nation as we face the judgment of God from falling prey to that worldview.
The Worldview Leading to Stalin00:06:01
Yeah.
I would say the dangerous, there's a dualism between political cults right now in our culture that's incredibly dangerous.
One, everyone always is thinking about what's going on with leftism, with the left.
You know, you think about what's going on right now with Pride Month, and it seems like every single year it gets taken to the next level.
In regards to what gets celebrated, what is on the table, and so forth and so on.
But then the counter to that is really, I think it's equally as dangerous and deadly as the secular conservatism.
Because within that, you see a lot of people who just kind of hold to these arbitrary, vague, conservative values of different, yeah, I think these vague conservative values.
And so they don't give an ultimate accounting as to why.
This is an issue to begin with.
So I would give an example.
The whole situation, I haven't really followed it.
The Olympics are happening right now.
Are the Olympics happening right now?
I guess it's happening.
But there was, I guess, some lady who got third place was sort of like looking disgruntled for the national anthem.
And everyone on the conservative side is all like up in arms about it.
And like, you don't kneel, you stand for the flag, you stand for the anthem.
And I'm hearing that.
I'm saying, like, oh, you worship the state.
Like, you better worship the state no matter what.
And so, for me as a Christian, I honestly struggled with that.
I mean, I think honestly, like you should go if you're going to represent a country, whatever country you are, you represent the country.
And like, I would want to be respectful in the same way if I was on a field trip.
My creative agency, we're going to, we're working for a recycling company based in California.
So I want to be on my best behavior to make that company look good because that's just, that's my role.
So I think there's a matter of general principle in that.
But to be able to say, like, no, you need to stand for the flag, you need to do this, well, ultimately, There's one person that I'm accountable to, which is Christ.
I'm going to bow the knee to Christ and do that before I stand before any flag.
And so I think one of the main problems is that a lot of the people who are appealing to the conservative values aren't resting in the ultimate source of where those values originally came from, which is biblical truth.
So I think, in that sense, and then I think one of the most dangerous things today is really the new age and the occult.
I think just because.
In many ways, it's kind of the new atheism because, as you can see, especially with Pride Month, you can see that we are in a complete free fall as far as ethics, Western civilization goes.
And as we become more secular, there's still this huge hole and vacuum that gets created in regards to people just having that spiritual void that they're desperate to fill it up.
And I think typically in times past, You know, during the dark ages and such, you'd see the resurgence of all sorts of different paganism.
But now I think, with the very quick fast food spirituality, and where you don't really have to have a whole organization because the truth is within you, you don't have to start a church in order to start a religion.
So I think you have that combined with the TikTok influencer mentality where you can get millions of followers, you know, young kids who are 18 to 20 years old, even younger than that, who can use that as a catalyst for influence.
It's really a powder keg, a field full of dry.
It's a forest full of dried pine needles for miles on end, just waiting for a spark to happen.
That's one of the biggest dangers.
And that's why I think having shows like Cultish and being able to partner with people like Stephen Bancars and other people to be able to get the hope of the gospel out to people in.
Oh, we're still here.
Minimize.
Yeah, into the world of cults and the occult.
I think that's a huge need.
So, yeah, I would just say.
Definitely both the left, leftism, and secular conservatism.
It's a really deadly dualism.
You know, like a lot of people on the left, and I don't know, not to go super political here, but even on the conservative side, people are looking right now like Donald Trump is not the hope that we have for Western civilization.
I'm sorry to say it.
Yeah, he might do better than other people in there.
I mean, he could formulate complete sentences, so he has that going for him.
But yeah, ultimately, he's not the savior.
He's not the ultimate standard.
I think a lot of people are just sort of viewing him still as he's the hope and the savior, you know.
And it's just that that was one of the concerns, too.
I guess he had a recent rally like in Ohio or somewhere like that.
And it was just a ridiculous amount of people showed up for one of his rallies, which is totally okay.
Like I would go to one, no problem.
But I think for a lot of people, it trolled me like this is their vested hope.
It's like my hope is built in nothing less than Donald Trump, whatever would rhyme with that.
So, um, But, anyways, those would be two of mine for sure.
Yeah.
No, that's helpful.
So, the secular, I like what you said, Andrew.
So, you said secularism, because a lot of people don't think of that as a cult.
So, I really appreciate you kind of leading off with that answer because it is a cult.
You know, that we climbed out of some primordial soup and we're apes and all.
Like, it's crazy.
It's just as crazy as any other cult out there.
And at some point, you know, as often as the secularist points to the Christian and says, you know, the crusades, the crusades, the crusades, at some point, they got to own up to Mao.
Grounding Faith in Truth00:13:25
You're right.
You know, when is secularism going to own up to?
For every person that was killed in the name of Christianity, and we know that that wasn't true Christianity, but for everyone who was killed, and it gets counted to the number of Christian casualties, I mean, it's a hundred times, a hundredfold, a thousandfold because of secularism.
The worldview promotes if I'm bigger than you, you have something I want, I take it.
Why would I not?
And I appreciate you, Jeremiah, throwing in.
I actually would push back, I'll push back a little bit real quick.
But the conservative secular, because you're right, that absolutely exists.
I personally, now I could be wrong, I personally don't see it as dangerous as the full blown leftist secular.
I see it as just the seeds, in my opinion, of.
I see the conservative secularist as just a leftist secularist in embryo.
You know what I mean?
Because really, I think that's what happens.
Somebody once said that, you know, One generation believes the gospel, the next assumes the gospel, the next neglects the gospel, and the next rejects the gospel.
And I think that if you look at generations and what has happened, you know, we have the greatest generation and they suffered.
Sometimes I think, you know, we either need revival or America just needs another war, like a big one, you know, because that tends to be what purifies nations and brings them back right now.
There's just so much comfort, so much ease that you just start whining and complaining about everything.
And it's really all on the shoulders of Privilege, not white privilege, but just privilege.
And so, you know, so, anyways, all that being said, I think that, you know, you look at generations.
I just listened to Ali Bestucky, she had a guest today, and, you know, talking about the boomer generation.
This woman, she wrote a book on the boomer generation and how they really messed everything up, you know, with the 1960s and all these things.
And what they did was they took for granted everything that was given to them by the greatest generation, by their parents.
And then they were very anti institution, you know, and they broke down the institutions.
And so I see, like, the secularist conservative, somebody like I won't push Shapiro there just because I know that he's not a Christian and I pray that God saves him, but he's not a secularist in the sense that he's an Orthodox Jew.
But let's say, like, Peterson, Jordan Peterson, or somebody like that.
I see them as, at best, a common grace expression that I'm grateful for.
But in reality, give it time, right?
The seeds will grow in time.
They're people who are hanging really good things, God things, in midair.
But there's no found date.
And it's just, you know what I mean?
And it just, it won't.
Hold.
And so you have a generation that believes the gospel, believes the Christian worldview, believes the law of God, all these kinds of things.
And then you have a generation that accepts it, but it's not with conviction, it's assumed.
And then the next generation neglects, and then eventually it's just that full on rejection.
And I feel like I would say, like, the greatest generation believed, I would say, boomers assumed, and I would say we're now experiencing kind of Gen X and millennials, like this.
Neglecting with some and then now outright rejection.
And so I see the conservative secularist, what you're saying, Jeremiah, is not necessarily the enemy, but they're the ones who ultimately manufacture the enemy by giving people the what.
This is the good what.
This is what you should do, but they don't give the why.
And it just doesn't work.
You have to ground it in the worldview.
And Jordan Peterson, brilliant as he may be, at the end of the day, with every one of his lectures, I'm astounded by his brilliance.
The way that he can speak, but if I was ever there in the audience, I would just say, why?
That would be my question at the end of every single lecture is okay, all that sounds really good.
What you said is good.
But why?
If Jesus isn't Lord, which is the most political statement we could ever make, so Christianity does deal with politics, if Jesus isn't Lord and people are not his image bearing creatures and there's not a law of God, a God in heaven who will judge both the quick and the dead, then why?
And there's no real answer for that apart from the Christian worldview.
And so I agree with you.
The secularist, I thought that was fantastic.
And I agree with you also, Jeremiah, with the conservative secularist.
I personally don't think they're quite as dangerous, but I just think that the conservative secularist is just a generation away from being the progressive.
Yeah, and I totally get what you're saying for sure.
I think just one, I think just for clarification, would be where the danger I would see where a secular conservatist.
Conservative would appeal to just the sort of generic values.
We're not really dealing with ultimately where they come from.
And I'll give you an example.
There's a guy who's a big influencer.
His name is Officer Tatum.
And his YouTube channel is great.
I enjoy it.
He's always talking about different things.
He's a foreign police officer and he kind of deals with, he's also a foreign black police officer.
So he has a very unique vantage point as a black conservative talking about, especially he got a big.
A lot of notoriety back last year during the BLM riots and a lot of the different shootings that took place.
What happened with George Floyd?
However, he's oneness apostolic.
He adamantly denies the Trinity and the deity of Christ.
There was someone, he did a live stream where I believe he challenged, he was giving a challenge for anyone to like prove the Trinity or the Jesus was the eternal God in human flesh or something of that nature.
I wish I could find it.
I can't, I ought to look up and find it.
But some guy found out about it.
And he wasn't even on Instagram, but he opened up an Instagram account just to be able to go onto his live stream and challenge him.
So he brought him on, and hundreds of people were listening in, and they have this big debate.
And you could hear that, like, when you started getting pushed on what scripture adamantly says about who Christ is in regards to being the eternal God and knowing the ramifications of Christ giving the contingencies of eternal life and believing, maybe struggle with, but not adamantly rejecting.
That he's the eternal God, that eternal life is contingent upon that.
He's someone at this point in time, it seems like he was rejecting it.
And the same thing, too, with someone like Glenn Beck, and I've always appreciated a lot of his show, and he's a really funny guy, and I think there's a lot of good that he contributes.
But ultimately, if Glenn Beck believes in the gospel of Mormonism, some people are saved in spite of the Mormon church, but if he believes in the gospel of Mormonism, that's a false gospel.
And you can't clothe yourselves.
In the robes of conservative values or the Constitution.
The only way you ultimately have for people of God is through the righteousness of Christ.
So that's where a way I would say that.
And I think part of the reason of sort of calling them equals is to kind of force people to think.
It's kind of a great idea.
I agree.
That's really good.
I just had a mental picture of like, you know, Ben Shapiro on the day of judgment wearing the Constitution instead of the robe of Christ.
Just not, it's just, I love Ben.
Come on, Ben.
You've got to love Jesus.
You've got to submit to Christ.
No, you know what?
I think you're right.
As you were talking, I think you were persuasive.
I think that was compelling.
And it just got me thinking that I think the leftist secularists, I would put them, you know, you watch those shows like 50 deadliest animals.
So if we were doing that right now, 50 deadliest cults, I think I would put the leftist secularism number one.
I think you nailed that, Andrew.
But then, Jeremiah, you got me thinking, I think.
I'd probably put number two, New Age and a cult.
That was really good what you said on that.
And so I don't want to just gloss over it.
And I like what you said, like the powder keg with 18 year olds without even a fully developed mind and a TikTok with a million viewers, and that it can multiply, it can spread so quickly because it doesn't need an order, right?
It doesn't need an organization, institution.
It's just because you have the revelation.
So that was super helpful.
So maybe put that at number two.
And then number three, I still don't know if I'd give it number three, but I agree with you in this.
You won me over on this.
Then the conservative, the secular conservative, if nothing else, it is dangerous, right?
Because that was kind of the original question.
If nothing else, it is dangerous because it seeks to persuade people that you can have good without God.
And that is a lie.
And so it's dangerous in the sense, not necessarily that it ruins empires and nations and those, you know, but what it does is it gives people an allegedly good and wholesome and comfortable life on their way to hell.
For each other.
You know what I mean?
And so, in that sense, it is utterly dangerous.
So, touche.
So, fair enough.
Okay.
You guys are talking about this.
It was making me think of something.
Go for it.
Yeah.
The secular conservatism reminded me essentially of the Israelites when they're getting led through the Red Sea.
And after they come out through the Red Sea, we're going to Mount Sinai.
And then we all know the story.
They end up, you know, fashioning a golden calf from all of the gold that they plundered from the Egyptians and they worship that.
So, the secular conservatism, it's like, God brought us through an area, right?
We have his law.
We have the way he wants to institute government, which was given to us in the Bible, the way we at least try to find conservatism in general.
What are we trying to conserve, right?
And nowadays, it seems like the conservatism is the worship of the golden calf.
It's like we have these values, but we forgot who the God was that led us out through the Red Sea, right?
And out of captivity.
And we go back to the pagan to try to make sense of all that is around us.
That's why I see it's dangerous because we know the Lord hates misplaced worship.
And I find like that's what it leads to in a sense.
So you guys just have my brain thinking about that.
You're right.
No, that's good.
That's good.
Well, guys, I really appreciate your time.
I know that you've probably already given me enough.
Any final thoughts that you'd like to add?
No, I just think that this topic is incredibly unique.
It's a very unique place that we've been placed in.
I think, especially if you are a Christian, it's real.
I would say if you don't have it, get Dr. Walton Martin's.
Kingdom of the Cults.
I would say just look up his lecture, listen to his lectures online.
He was really speaking about a lot of these different new cults, new religions, things in regards to UFOs, extrasensory perception.
He was so ahead of its time.
I guess they get the kingdom of the cults.
Just look, just start listening to his lectures on YouTube.
Like, get equipped because this is the kingdom of the cults is only going to explode given the state of the world right now.
I mean, historically, cults have always exploded during times of uncertainty.
And if 2020, that was one thing I thought through, I said, I don't know where this is all headed, but this is just going to be the fault, the nuclear fallout of all this is going to be just a plethora of brand new cult leaders as you.
Mentioned a long time ago, a bunch of little Jim Jones is like running around.
And as Christians, we need to be able to give an apologetic and give an answer for people.
Otherwise, they may end up face down somewhere else, another jungle, another Jonestown.
So, this is serious stuff.
We have the slogan and the teacher, Bad Theology Hurts People, but it's a serious thing.
No, outside of just the show, I'm a deacon and I've had to sit in on meetings and hearing horrific stories of people who've gone through horrific spiritual abuse.
You know, you see the wherewithal.
Like, this is serious.
This is a serious game.
This is not something to play around with.
There's a reason, you know, when you think about the apologetic answer in 1 Peter 3 15, you know, give an answer for everyone, the hope that is in you, but with meekness, gentleness, and compassion, or reverence, the way that it says it, and respect is that that's really like the warning.
That's the warning on a desert.
The desert eagle has a warning label.
And that's really what it is.
I mean, that's you're wielding something that's powerful.
And you need to do it with carefulness as well, too.
And that's what the cult leaders do.
They ignore the instructions and they wield it in a way that the instructions don't say and it harms people.
So, as Christians, we have even more of a responsibility to do it in the correct way.
So, those are my thoughts.
Anything else you have to say, Andrew?
No, brother.
That was beautiful.
That's good.
Great.
Great, guys.
Thanks so much for coming on the show.
I really appreciate it.
God bless.
Awesome, man.
God bless you, too.
Thank you, man.
Awesome.
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