Sally Grubbs and Jason Frazier expose Georgia election failures, citing Brad Raffensperger's absence, vulnerable ballot marking devices, and coerced workers like Debbie Fisher. They demand forensic audits and paper ballots while Allison Steinberg condemns Congress for granting three-year Temporary Protected Status to 350,000 Haitians, labeling it amnesty despite welfare dependency. The episode links immigration exploitation to election fraud concerns, arguing that bipartisan collusion undermines sovereignty and necessitates a return to transparent, auditable voting systems before transitioning to patriotic product promotions. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Mike Lindell Pillow Guy00:15:18
You ever see this guy with the pillows on Fox?
My pillow guy, Mike Lindell.
He is the greatest.
My pillow guy.
Mike Lindell.
And he's been with us right from the beginning.
Happy Friday, everybody.
We officially made it to the end of the week.
And let me just say, when you're in this fight to save our country, weekends matter.
Those weekends where we get to go home and unplug from the news and spend time with our family is literally the refreshment that we need, by the way, church on Sunday in order to come back renewed on Monday.
But we have one more show for you today before we get to go home and call it a weekend.
But Georgia State Election Board had another meeting.
And guess who decided to no show?
None other than the Secretary of State's office.
Shocker.
But what a lot of people did actually show up, and there was some powerful, explosive testimony at that state election board meeting.
And I have two special guests joining me.
But before that, I want to play a sound bite from Georgia State Election Board member Sally Grubbs.
And I found that her opening remarks there at this hearing were so powerful because at the end of the day, election integrity is not a right versus left issue.
And it's something that when you're an official sitting on a board and you're hearing public comment and public testimony, as we've seen for so long, it's become right versus left.
But in reality, it should be everybody on that board, regardless of political affiliation, listening to every speaker with an open mind.
So let's play this clip from Sally Grubbs.
Take a listen.
I know that sometimes meetings can be somewhat contentious and.
No.
It's not even obvious.
Not what Barbie is.
But I was thinking about the word prejudice last night, and according to Dr. Duck Duck Go, the act or state of holding unreasonable preconceived judgments or convictions, and it comes to mind as we're discussing who to hear from, who not to hear from, who's on what side.
I would just like to reaffirm the fact that my position on this board is without regard to party, it is without regard to person, it is about the facts, it is about searching the facts, and I know the election directors in the state carry A huge burden right now.
We have 159 counties that are wondering what are we going to do, how are we going to do it, where are we going to get the people to do it.
And my heart is with the election directors right now because God knows if a power outage happens, it's going to be, yeah, it was her fault.
She made the sun cover the solar panels that run the machines or whatever the case may be.
Everybody's going to point their finger to the election directors and say it's their fault.
And I want to say right now that the election directors carry no fault.
These are good people that are trying to do a good job in a highly highly overcomplicated system.
And when I say I want to hear from people, I want election directors to contact us and say, you know what, we've talked to this vendor or we've talked to this expert or we have had this, you know what, our election director is retiring, but they have all this tribal knowledge.
We need to glean that knowledge and share it with other counties.
We have some election directors who are way more engaged than others.
We have some of them here today.
We have some election directors and board members, election board members across the state that carry a ton of weight and burden for seeing that we have free and fair elections in the state.
So please hear me when I tell you when we walk in that door or any door when we have an SEB meeting, the attacks should stop and we should all come together as Georgians to say this is a big problem, let's work it out together.
And so, it's in that spirit that I'm saying, election directors, board members, if there are people that you want to hear from that would be beneficial to other election offices across the state, please call me.
You have my number.
If you don't, I would be happy to give it to you right now because this should be about elections.
This should not be about politics.
This should not be about posturing.
And this should not be focusing on differences.
It should be focusing on what we have in common, which is free and fair elections.
So, that's all I have to say about it.
Thank you.
Amen.
Amen.
And joining us.
Now on the Mike Lindell show, none other than the superstar of the Georgia State Election Board, Sally Grubbs, as well as Jason Frazier, who's supposed to be serving on the Fulton County Board of Registration and Elections, but is being blocked because of the very partisan politics that Sally just spoke out against.
So thank you both for joining me today.
Thank you.
Thank you for having us.
Yeah.
So, Sally, let's just start and kick right off with you.
I mean, you made such a beautiful point there, opening it up.
Time and time again, we've seen at some of these meetings that it's very partisan.
But, like, when you get to the real meat and potatoes of what actually goes on in these meetings, it affects everybody.
And so, how do we get back to sort of uniting as Georgians and as Americans on election integrity and just putting the politics aside?
Well, having that roadmap is something that's very difficult at times, Heather, because people, You know, in the media, we'll gin up a certain narrative and then people jump on it and that kind of thing.
And I think that we need to see each other as human beings first and foremost.
It's like with the issues that Jason has dealt with in Fulton County on the voter rolls.
You know, when you start digging into it, how much of it is Fulton's fault and how much of it is the Secretary of State's fault?
And I don't want to see anyone harangued or, you know, For lack of a better term, persecuted because they're just trying to do their job.
But there's that person on the other side of the fence in the Secretary of State's office that's either providing advice or direction.
And is that advice legal?
Is that advice consistent with how the system works?
You know, because we have what's in the code and then we have what's practical in application.
And what I'm hearing is yes, is there fault in their process?
It would appear so.
But then how is that?
Process formulated from the Secretary of State's office, and how much backup and support do they get?
So, you know, I was very glad to see Jason standing basically side by side with the woman from Fulton County to say, hey, let's work together.
Let's see if we can get to the bottom of this.
Maybe there's information that Jason doesn't have that he needs that can only come from the Secretary of State's office.
Maybe there's a lot of different scenarios.
And so I think we have to get to the bottom of those things, and truth will win out at the end of the day.
Amen.
Jason, your thoughts on the situation.
So, Fulton County was working with you?
Is that what I'm hearing?
Well, I hope to.
I agree with what Sally was saying.
I think the registrations manager, I think that's her title in Fulton County, she seems like a very honest person.
I think she wants to do the job right.
And I also agree with Sally when she's saying that there should be more help from the Secretary of State's office.
For example, in Georgia, we have 159 counties.
I don't think it makes a lot of sense for every single county.
To learn about, say, NCOA, National Change of Address Data, and run their own analysis to find people that moved out of state.
That could easily be a statewide function.
Or people that move from one county to another, the Secretary of State knows everyone in all the counties, so they could easily find duplicates across the state.
Whereas on a county by county basis, maybe they can look at what is a real address in their county because they have access to residential address tax data.
So, whenever I get a property tax bill, they know my house is a house and not a UPS store.
They also know a UPS store is a UPS store.
So, they could easily be flagging what is a non residential address to help block that.
So, that way people don't get registered at these UPS stores on a regular basis.
As, you know, I had a meeting with 11 Alive, one of the local stations yesterday, and we looked at the closest UPS store to their studio, and there were 27 people registered to vote at that UPS store.
So, it's still a problem that's happening.
It's been happening for years.
And I think a blending between the Secretary of State's office and the counties working together is the best solution.
And if there are independent folks like myself or various other people across the state that want to help, they should welcome that assistance, take the data, and make improvements.
And that's one of the things, too, Jason, that bless you, Heather.
That's one of the things, too, that is an issue the fact that, you know, I did another interview earlier today, and I said, you know, when people move from state to state, they need to call the state that they move from and have themselves removed from the voter rolls, because that's part of the problem, too, is that people move and they never think about where their voter registration is.
They go and register in a new state and they don't say, hey, you know what, I just left Georgia, I need to have them remove me from the voter roll.
Because that leaves an avenue for fraud.
People need to be proactive about where their actual voter registration lays.
And then also, the things that we've seen happening as to the voter roll issue is that in Georgia, like, say, for instance, if you apply for a program with the state of Georgia, there will be a question Do you want to register to vote?
And people say, Well, you know what?
I haven't registered in the last 10 years and I haven't voted in a while.
So let me just fill out another one.
Well, that creates a duplicate registration, and then someone has to go back and clean that up.
So people need to be proactive about what their voter status is.
They need to check that on the Secretary of State's website so it doesn't cause problems down the road.
But I will tell you that I did ask the Fulton County folks if they had data analysts to go over the data like Jason does, and the answer was no.
So with all the positions that they have and all the funding that they have, There is no one to help keep a watch on the voter registration other than the centralized system that will come through with things from time to time.
So I think that counties also need to be invested with hiring data analysts to look at that data, see what they can find, or partner with someone like Jason, who, as a volunteer, he spends thousands of hours on this kind of stuff.
And it would be very helpful if they would partner with people rather than trying to shut them out.
Yeah, I apologize, guys.
I'm still getting over a cold.
So if I have these little moments where I'm coughing.
Ivermectin is doing the trick.
But I want to play a clip of Miss King on the board where she brought up the fact that it's been super frustrating that the Secretary of State hasn't been a part of these conversations.
That you guys have continued time and time again to hear from these people.
And we're going to get to sort of some of the big item issues that came out during this hearing.
But the facts are that the Secretary of State is not showing up for them.
So let's take a listen to what she had to say.
Janelle King.
You basically saying that this method here is interesting because I think it was just last night I heard a former employee from the SOS office, Dave Sterling, state that this is something that they are seriously considering, is counting using this method.
So I know this is extremely important.
But this method would essentially eliminate the source document from being a part of the tabulation process, correct?
That's correct.
So, it appears to me that we are creating a more complicated method on top of an already complicated method to justify the complications.
It feels like we're working backwards at this point.
I think that was another clip I had from her, but that one in particular, Sally, maybe you can sort of respond to where are we standing with all of that?
Yeah, so that was Professor Andrew Appel, who's from Princeton.
And I love hearing from the academics on these issues because they have invested a lot of time.
They teach classes on things like this, and they can provide a lot of insight.
And what was referenced was a letter that went in November of 25 from the Georgia Director of Elections, Blake Evans, and Charlene McGowan, the counsel for the Secretary of State, to members of the Blue Ribbon Committee on Elections that came out of the Georgia House as part of the Georgia Legislature.
Saying that they wanted to basically tabulate the vote by a quote unquote double blind counting method.
And, you know, as I said the other day, I don't think that double blind needs to be phraseology in counting citizen votes.
And so this is where they would use the ballot images rather than the ballots themselves for tabulation.
And that is just not a good idea because, as we found, there can be.
There can be alterations made to the ballot images, and that would be no way to actually conduct an election.
It just seems like time and time again, they just want to make the elections more complicated instead of like simplifying it, right?
Like at one point in time, we conducted all elections in America without machines.
But yet, what I saw from a lot of the testimony there was you know, most people are in favor of going back to the handmarked paper ballots and doing just human recounts.
But then the tiny few critics you'd get, you know, sprinkled in there.
Would come back and be like, oh, well, the cost is slightly cheaper to have the machines, but they're not factoring in the fact that how much, how many millions of dollars has been spent on litigation alone around these voting machines and the recounts because of all the issues with them.
That price tag will blow anything out of the water.
Georgia Ballot System Risks00:15:00
And then, secondly, I'll say there is no amount of money I wouldn't be willing to spend to protect our elections.
And we need to stop making it seem like investing in our elections is a bad thing.
Even if you have to pay a little more, but you secure the future of your country by making sure everyone's vote truly counts, that is worth every single penny that it costs to get to that point.
And so, Jason, I'll just have you respond to this because you've done a lot of work on the election side of things as well.
And you're trying to get on the board there in Fulton County.
What is the status of your role?
Yeah.
So, my case, and I'll kind of bring it back a little bit for some of the new folks watching you.
I was nominated to be on the Fulton County Board of Elections for a term that was supposed to start last July.
And the Board of Commissioners has blocked that position.
So, there's only one Republican sitting on the Fulton County Board of Elections and three Democrats in one empty seat.
So, we filed a lawsuit, one at the lower court.
We actually won again for a contempt hearing, a contempt of court hearing, because they continue to refuse to seat me.
Contempt of court said, okay, you guys have to pay $10,000 a day until you actually do your job of seating me.
They still didn't and appealed.
And then we lost the appeals court level.
So now, as of last Friday, it got docketed at the Georgia Supreme Court.
So what it really comes down to is the law says the Board of Commissioners shall.
And they've got some other language in there, but it says shall seat me essentially.
And shall means must, it's very specific.
So they believe that shall does not mean shall for them.
And that's why we're going to the Georgia Supreme Court.
But I want to touch on one other thing you mentioned, Heather the complication upon complication upon complication.
For the folks outside of Georgia, we have these things called ballot marking devices.
They're these big machines for the sole purpose of using a touch screen instead of filling out a bubble.
So, when you really think about it, we're spending millions of dollars because somebody thinks that we can't fill out bubbles.
And those giant machines are so big and bulky that they damage gym floors at schools.
So, we lose a lot of opportunities to have voting at high schools and elementary schools simply because we have these giant, expensive machines that fill out bubbles for us.
I mean, the complication upon complication just grows and grows.
There's no reason people in Georgia can't fill out a bubble.
And then once they fill out the bubble at the end of the night, we can count the bubbles.
That's really all it comes down to we're spending a lot of money for bubbles to count election results at the end of the night.
Yeah, 100%.
And I mean, it's just so frustrating because time and time again, when you watch these state election board hearings and you hear about all the problems, there really are easy solutions for so many of them.
But when they start talking about it, they try to dance and use language to make it seem like it's some heavy lift to secure our elections.
But then I always go back to the point that if you look at every single bank in America right now, they audit their vaults every single day, multiple times a day.
They hand count every single dollar and nothing goes missing, right?
They have dual control at their ATM machines, which you could attribute to the, you know, like a Dropbox, like, and they run it efficiently.
If they didn't, nobody would bank there.
And so it's like when I hear these sort of critics and getting up there heckling you, Sally, or heckling Dr. Johnston and, you know, making it seem like it's this big heavy lift that we just can't do.
That's just not true.
Every corporation in America, these big corporations, you know, how many.
Uh, mailers they send out, Jason, and it costs them money to send those mailers out.
So, you want to know who can get a good uh voter list mailing list?
It's the corporations that are trying to save a buck.
Why can't our government do it, Jason?
Yeah, we get all the junk mail.
Go ahead, Sally.
You know, one of the things too is that, um, when you talk about the big heavy machines and things like that, um, you know, when they talk about cost, there was one gentleman that came forward and spoke, and and Jason I know talked to him after he he.
Spoke at public comment, he was from Hall County, and he was talking about the expense of the ballot.
Well, one of the things, if people think about it, that ballots that we have in Georgia now, because of the BMDs, they are not a full face ballot, meaning that only your selection shows up, right?
So if you say for governor, it has one line there for your choice and so on and so forth down the ballot.
Well, a hand marked paper ballot would include, it would be a full face ballot, is what it's called, and it would show all of the choices on the ballot.
A lot of people, less than probably 5%, even look at their ballots to see who they cast their vote for with the BMD use.
They assume that what they see on the screen is what's printed out.
And there have been instances where people have sworn that that's not the case.
But in setting, Georgia is one of the few states in the country that uses a complete BMD system, which was never the way it was supposed to work.
Accessibility.
They're not for the main method of voting.
And so when you're talking about these election offices having to rent trucks and load up the equipment, the manpower, you know, the labor hours and the manpower that's used to deliver the equipment and set up the equipment and to have, you know, power strips available to connect all the machines and, you know, the machines that they said were never connected to the internet, which we know now is, you know, it's not true that there is the ability for them to connect to the internet.
When you factor all those things in and the labor hours, the man hours, the trucks that are necessary, setting up at all the precincts, I mean, just in Cobb County where I am, there's 148 precincts.
And if you have multiple BMDs at the precincts, you're talking about, yeah, I mean, you can just see how the setup and logistics is just so much.
When you could put tight controls on hand marked paper ballots that poll managers could put in their cars and transport without any problem, it's just, It's just a non argument as far as I'm concerned.
I mean, the simple way is the best way, and the best way is a hand marked paper ballot.
Do you think we're going to be able to get to that, Sally, before the midterms?
Like, what's the likelihood that that's actually put in place?
Well, this will be news to Jason, but we're looking at calling a special meeting of the SEB for next week.
There was business that was left unfinished at our recent meeting.
You know, we went from 9 o'clock in the morning till 7 30 that night, and there were some things that we still needed to address.
So, that is my hope.
And there are some people saying that the governor's going to call a special session about it.
In the 40 days that the legislature was in session this year and there could not be a consensus, we had the special Blue Ribbon Committee on Elections out of the Georgia House that did not help resolve it.
In fact, some of the legislation was crafted.
You could tell that it was crafted in favor of an entire new voting system that would involve new equipment.
We don't need more equipment.
That is one of the things that we do not need.
What we need are the hand marked paper ballots.
That is the backup balloting procedure in Georgia, and that's what we need to go to.
I couldn't agree more.
I couldn't agree more.
Hopefully, we get back to that.
But the other issue is obviously the voter rolls and things like that.
Even when we have paper ballots, there's still issues.
I want to play a soundbite from the, I believe she's an election worker in Cobb County, and she brought up the issue with the UOKABA ballots, which are the military and overseas ballots.
Let's go ahead and play that soundbite of her testimony.
Pitcher of Cobb County, speaking on my own behalf, not that of the Cobb County Board of Elections.
In preparing for the Congressional District 14 runoff race, I pulled the absentee ballot, excuse me, advanced voting report to look at the absentee ballot numbers.
What I noticed almost immediately in looking at UACABA, one of my hot topics, is this.
You see all the red numbers?
There's 12 pages of this.
12 pages.
Do you know what those numbers are?
Those numbers are the application date, the issue date, and the return date.
And guess what?
The issue date and the return date on about 80% of them are two days later.
Two days.
These are UACAPA ballots.
How does that happen?
So I questioned it because I'm required to certify an election and say it was accurate.
Well, upon getting answers to my questions, what happened is enhanced voting in combination with Jarvis had some kind of new formula.
That automatically put in those dates, and not only did they put in the wrong dates, they sent two ballots to the UACAVA voters, not one.
This isn't just a data error.
This is a serious strategic error in which I'm being asked to certify, but I can't with that data, but I did.
How many times have we heard people like her say that they're being sort of forced or coerced to certify election results that they don't actually want to certify because they can't confirm they're real?
That should horrify every American and every journalist should be covering that.
How did we even get to that place?
I mean, I guess I'll start with you, Jason.
How is this whole issue with the UOKAVA votes possible?
I mean, you covered the lists and the roles, you're very good with the data entry stuff.
Explain how something like this is even possible.
Yeah.
I mean, Debbie was saying that it's a program that it automatically populates the dates.
I mean, that should never happen.
You shouldn't have an auto population on the dates.
It needs to be the actual real dates that these Yuukava ballots are sent out and returned.
And it's definitely a little disheartening that Debbie Fisher had to certify because the law says she shall certify.
It's that same word that Fulton County shall seat me on the board of elections.
But it means one thing if you have to certify it, another thing if you have to seat an election official.
So that shall kind of gets under my skin a little bit.
But yeah, we need to be looking into those UACAPA ballots.
And it really shocked me that they were all sent two ballots that could be returned.
Each and every one of those people could have double voted.
I'm not saying they did, and I haven't looked at the data, but that is a major gap.
And we've got the midterms coming up, and I could just see if that happened again, then hopefully they'll get it fixed.
But that opens up a lot of opportunity for issues.
So, I think it was Miss King that had actually asked her too if she had seen the ballots themselves or the images in order to verify any of the information.
But she said that she could do some sort of open records request for it.
I mean, what kind of investigation, I guess, can the Georgia State Election Board do, Sally, to get to the bottom of this?
Because, I mean, is there any way this could be just like a machine issue, or is this something that maybe paints a bigger, sort of more Fraudulent picture?
Well, remember, Heather, we have enhanced voting that does our election night reporting that did the last audit that was done, who now apparently is involved with UACAPA ballots.
I'm not sure how that's working.
I encouraged Ms. Fisher to file a complaint or for there to be a report done.
The last I understood, the Secretary of State was quote unquote looking into it, but we have advanced voting.
That is starting the 27th for the May 19th primaries.
And so we have to get to the bottom of this very quickly.
That was for a special election for Congressional District 14.
And I am not sure how enhanced voting enters into that conversation on UACAVA ballots.
I think we have a whole other issue with UACAVA ballots.
As you may know, they're ranked choice voting ballots at this point in time.
So there's still much work to do, and we need everyone involved in paying attention as much as possible.
So, you had mentioned too in the hearing, Sally, that there was, you had asked a question of the professor there from Princeton if it would basically be a conflict of interest to have sort of the same group do the recount and do the, you know, like the totaling of everything.
What company is that right now?
Is that Dominion?
It's Enhanced Voting, is the name of the company.
And yeah.
And that's something chosen by the Secretary of State.
I have asked.
These questions of the Secretary of State, and I don't really get answers.
Back even in 2020, I'd asked for a list of all voting equipment and where it's stored.
And the reason for that was because of what happened in 2020, right before actually leading into 2021 for the Senate race.
There was a report that was phoned into the hotline for the Georgia GOP about voting machines being at a location in Cobb County.
I don't know whether you remember this or not, but It was a company that did a lot of electrical components, and these machines were allegedly being reprogrammed at this company.
I wanted to know okay, who's authorized to work on the machines?
Where is this being done?
Where is equipment stored?
And I did an open records request to the Secretary of State.
Six Years Seeking Transparency00:10:19
Their response was that it was information that could not be released because it was contrary to the public interest at the time.
So, this has been an ongoing thing where the Secretary of State enters into these outside agreements with third party vendors.
You know, there was a lot of pushback about the voter list being released to the Department of Justice.
And I'm like, so the Department of Justice, which is the government, which already has our social security numbers, they already have all of our data and information.
We're going to make a big deal about that.
Meanwhile, they're entering into these third party agreements with No Inc., who handles the poll pads.
And our voter list and, you know, enhance voting on doing the.
I mean, I can't even keep up with the number of third parties that are given information to the Secretary or the Secretary of State is giving information to.
And I'm like, if people really, you know, and there have been data breaches.
There was the, what they called the Peach breach.
There was a breach at Kennesaw State University.
There have been breaches of that information, and yet people are silent, like, About that, yet, oh my gosh, don't give the Department of Justice, you know, our voter roll information.
It's pretty stunning that the Secretary of State seems to be able to do what he wants to.
And, you know, our job as the State Election Board is to assist in providing oversight for that.
But we get, we kind of get fought against every step of the way.
And if there was truth and transparency, it would be a different situation.
But there's not.
And we had a scheduled, Representative to be there on Wednesday who the night before canceled.
I phoned, left a voicemail, sent a text message, sent an email, and so far I've not gotten one response.
So if people are skeptical, that's why.
And, you know, I'm doing the best I can as a board member to see that there's transparency, but it's very difficult when they won't even communicate with you.
Yeah, so you have somebody from the Secretary of State's office planning to meet with you guys on Wednesday?
Mm hmm.
The Director of Elections was scheduled, he was on the agenda to be there to answer some questions about some of these processes.
And specifically, because of the things that came up with Fulton County, thanks to Jason's work and thanks to what came out from the registrar that handled that component of work.
It was, well, I can't get this from the Secretary of State's office or ask them, and they told me that.
And I'm like, well, you know, let's just get him here and let's get to the bottom of where the root cause lays.
And he was supposed to be there, and then the night before, he sent an email and said he would be unable to make it.
So, is the meeting Wednesday something that's going to be streamed live, or is that sort of a behind closed doors type of meeting with you guys?
Upcoming?
No, everything is always out in the open.
It will.
We're working on it right now, but it will be a Zoom meeting.
So it will not be an in person meeting, but of course, it will be public.
Any meeting that we do would be public.
We would not violate any sunshine laws and have any kind of meeting that would not be public.
Okay.
So, well, hopefully he'll show up.
I mean, you know, it's funny.
This was supposed to happen this past Wednesday.
Oh, yeah, I know.
We actually had this past meeting.
Yeah, we have, if we have that clip that we were trying to find earlier of Janelle, she really.
Tore into them.
And it was pretty powerful listening to her, you know, sort of express her grievances on the record, just because it really is so important for them to show up and be accountable to the people they're supposed to be representing.
So if we have that clip of Janelle on the Secretary of State, we'll go ahead and play that.
I think I would be disingenuous if I did not share my frustration with Blake Evans canceling at the last minute last night.
At this point, I think we're at a.
Which is this should be about elections.
This should not be about.
I think I would be disingenuous if I did not share my frustration with Blake Evans canceling at the last minute last night.
At this point, I think we're at a point, as a populace, where we've kind of surpassed confusion, we've surpassed frustration, we're a little overangry.
At this point, I feel like we're at a point of disrespect.
I carefully prepared my questions for Mr. Blake Evans.
The agenda was out for weeks.
He knew about this for a very, very long time.
And to cancel without as much as a recommendation of another person that can come from the office to represent him shows a blatant disregard and disrespect for not only this board, but for the people of Georgia.
That is unacceptable.
It's 100% unacceptable.
We have sat here numerous times.
We have listened to several different people, and honestly, when I look at what's happening, I feel like they're playing in our faces.
I feel gaslit, and I'm not understanding why.
People who are frustrated with the lack of leadership from our General Assembly are frustrated because two years ago they were told that the QR codes would be removed.
That's what they said.
There are people who believe that our legislature is there to make laws, and if they decide they don't want to enforce them, they can then change it.
Or not do it while everybody else is just being whiplashed from the lack of leadership.
That, again, is unacceptable, and to be quite frank with you, is extremely disrespectful to the people of Georgia.
I'm tired of the whiplash.
I'm tired of the get in line, be quiet.
There's not, those who are in power, that's not the only voice that matters.
Matter of fact, their voice is supposed to be our voice.
So the fact that it's so distinctively different is a problem within itself.
So I'm not gonna let it slide.
I'm not gonna just say, oh, you know, things happen.
Yeah, of course things happen, but as a leader, You make the decision to either recommend that someone else from that office gets down here and answer our questions, or you come and you have the courage to do it yourself.
But the cowardice behavior that we continue to see displayed is beyond frustrating.
It's just disrespectful.
And I would hope, Mr. Chair, that you would agree that this is beyond frustrating.
At some point, those who are in positions to represent the people.
Have got to answer to the people.
I'm tired of the excuses.
I'm tired of the, oh, let's just see.
And to remember Brown's point, our election staff are the ones that have to bear the weight of all of these decisions decisions that we make, decisions that the legislature makes, the frustration and the confusion of the people.
It's on the back of election directors that I don't think are paid well, to be quite frank, considering all that they have to endure.
So, no, I'm not going to let it slide.
I'm going to say my piece.
It's disrespectful.
And I need the Secretary of State's office who put us in this crisis in the first place to do their job.
Show up and answer to the people.
Never came.
Man, it was too good not to share.
It was just so much truth in what she was just saying.
And, you know, it makes me think maybe there's the reasons Brad Raffensperger's not fixing the elections because something tells me somebody like him wouldn't win in a free and fair election.
And so, how is that not sort of a contradiction?
Conflict of interest alone.
You know, I mean, what can we do, Sally, to actually bring accountability to the Secretary of State's office at this point?
I mean, we've passed laws that aren't getting enforced.
You guys are doing a phenomenal job at the State Election Board, but how do we get accountability within the Secretary of State's office?
We get a new Secretary of State.
I mean, at this point, that's where we're at.
I mean, Heather, you know, I mean, you were there from early on in 2020.
This has been a grueling six years.
It's been more than six years for me in trying to get some transparency and accountability and what we have going on.
And it's exhausting.
It's grueling.
It takes its toll on your health, your family, you know, everything.
It takes a toll on everything.
And it is very exhausting.
To try and get information, have people follow the law.
And at this point, you know, it's kind of like you look at people and you say, well, are they nefarious?
Are they stupid?
Are they incapable?
And those are the three questions I constantly ask myself about people in some of these positions.
And as far as George's director goes, Blake Evans, I think he is probably a good guy, but he works for Brad Raffensberger, for goodness sake.
And, you know, as an old friend of mine used to say all the time, the fish rots from the head.
You know, there are people in leadership positions, and now you have a conflict of interest here where Brad Raffensberger is running for governor now, and he's going to be in charge of the elections for election night for this midterm and for advanced voting.
And, you know, I'm trying to get us access into this place called the bunker, which is down at Georgia Emergency Management Headquarters where all the votes are aggregated with enhanced voting software.
And, you know, there's not been any oversight or watching of that by impartial watchers.
And there needs to be oversight for that.
Hacked Voting Machine Fears00:07:48
And I'm trying to get that as well.
And it is literally like pulling teeth.
They ignore you.
They don't respond to emails.
They make a commitment to show up at a meeting and don't show up.
I mean, it's tiresome.
No, I mean, like, I have chills because when I was doing my investigative work down there in Georgia, And, like, I'll never forget, I exposed a story in Floyd County originally, and it went viral on social media, got the attention of them, President Donald Trump.
And at that moment, everyone started reaching out to me in Georgia that knew about things.
And I didn't know a lot about Georgia politics back then.
I was just this Georgia, you know, I was from New Hampshire.
I was just visiting because of COVID lockdowns.
I was like, oh, I got family in Georgia.
Let me go cover their recount.
And I walked into like the lion's den here of corruption.
Yes, you did.
A lot of people that started reaching out to me, I was like, you know, did you go to the Secretary of State?
And they were like, I heard multiple stories of Secretary of State investigators going out to meet some of these people, and the people themselves telling me they were met with like intimidation, that they were met and treated almost like they were the criminal for bringing this information forward.
And I've heard this from multiple people, independent of each other, of the same treatment by the Secretary of State when they brought forward legitimate fraudulent concerns.
So When I hear, you know, they're dodging showing up before you guys and they're, you know, not handing over the voter rolls to the DOJ because of concerns, when Brad Raffensperger was a party in Curling B Raffensperger, where a Dominion technician admitted in his deposition that he was a Nigerian citizen and that his job was to have access to the very software and devices that not only in that case,
Professor Halderman said could be exploited and hacked and compromised.
But we actually have a clip here I want to play from the professor Abel, who his background taught at Princeton University.
He taught computer science from 1986 to 2025.
He was a senior scholar in computer science.
He's done research in software verification, research in voting machine cybersecurity, 90 blog articles, and was appointed to the Texas Voting Machine Committee 2025 to present by the Texas Attorney General.
Listen to what he says about some of these machines used right now in Georgia.
Take a listen.
Issue with the use of ballot marking devices for all voters.
Next slide.
The problem is that BMDs are computers that can be hacked just as easily as other voting machines or other computers.
If the BMD is hacked, it can print fraudulent votes onto the ballot paper.
Any audit or recount will count the fraudulent votes.
Next slide.
Most voters don't examine the ballot paper closely enough to catch differences from what they indicated on the touch screen if such differences occur.
There's been several studies of the behavior of real voters in different places that all come to the same conclusion.
And what that means, next slide, is.
So essentially, you have right there another computer cybersecurity expert and another professor saying publicly that these machines can be hacked and exploited.
And Brad Raffensperger's office will tell you that never happened.
But until you actually do a forensic analysis on every single ballot marking device and every single voting machine, you don't know that it didn't happen.
And that was never done in Georgia.
There was never any forensic audit of those voting machines or those ballot marking devices.
So when they say there was no fraud, well, in order to find the fraud, you actually have to look.
And that was never done.
So just final thoughts from you, Sally, on just, you know, Where we're at right now as we head into another set of midterms?
Like, what's the best outcome for these midterms?
Well, the best outcome is an honest election.
And as I referenced in an interview that I did earlier today, you know, Heather, it's so frustrating that we beat our heads against the wall all the time, consistently.
And you have these experts that are academic experts that talk about the vulnerability.
And then it's like, well, was there any evidence?
You know, but there was this recount and there was this audit and that audit and this recount, and there was no provable fraud.
And I broke it down this morning to say that, you know, they always add on that would have made a difference in the election.
And I'm like, look, you're forgetting the fact that take the presidential election out of it.
You're talking about all the down ballot races.
And in the presidential election, we have 159 counties in Georgia.
We have over 2,500 precincts.
It would have taken less than five votes.
Per precinct to make a difference in that election.
And there were many, many cases that were never heard.
We still have some cases, I can't give you an exact number from 2020 that were never heard.
You have the Joe Rossi complaint that was never timely heard.
In my own complaint that I filed from 2020, I had a hearing, it was by Zoom because of COVID, and was disconnected from the call.
And that investigator never had an in person meeting with me, never viewed The document, the photos that I had and the documentation that I had.
So when they say there's no evidence, you're right.
You're not going to see any evidence if you don't look.
You know, it's like, oh, we don't see any fraud here.
We don't see any.
And it's like, this is crazy.
They don't see it because they don't want to look.
And, you know, the majority of things are errors.
I agree that the errors are sufficient enough, but they would never know without doing a forensic examination of the voting equipment.
And that just never happened.
Just never happened.
Yeah, 100%.
Final thoughts, Jason, about a minute here.
Yeah, I mean, Sally touched on the fact that, yeah, there are a lot of errors.
I would say a lot of these errors maybe aren't intentional.
Some sure do appear to be intentional.
But the fact of the matter is, when you have such a complicated system where you have people using a touch screen to cast their ballot, and if you and I go to the same precinct and we vote for the same people, our ballots will be 100% identical.
So that alone makes the process a little risky because it would be very easy to swap out ballots if somebody wanted to do that.
Simply because every ballot looks the same if they pick the same people.
So that's a massive risk.
And it is just so complicated.
And with 17, or I think this in the primary, we're going to have 19 days of early voting in Fulton County.
That opens up a lot of risk.
I mean, if I'm registered to vote in two states, I can easily drive from one to the other or have an absentee ballot.
It's just a matter of overcomplicating the entire process to where you can't audit it.
And the doors are wide open for fraud.
There is no reason we can't go back to a hand marked paper ballot counted at the precinct on election day, the way a lot of countries do it and the way we used to do it.
So I think that is the best solution.
And I hope we can get there so we can have trust in our elections again.
Deep State Money Threats00:02:52
Amen.
Couldn't have said it better.
Well, thank you both, Sally Grubbs, Jason Frazier, for joining me.
Keep up the incredible work there in Georgia.
We're rooting for you.
And as you guys know, we're an ally here at Lindell TV.
When you need to get something out, You reach out to us because we're going to tell the stories that the legacy media won't.
So, thank you both for joining me.
Thanks, Heather.
All right, we're going to take a quick break.
And when we come back, our very own Allison Steinberg is going to join us to wrap up the show and head to the weekend.
We'll be right back.
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Temporary Amnesty Extension00:06:58
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All right, everybody, joining us now, Allison Steinberg to wrap up the Michael and Dell show in the week is joining us.
Good to see you, Allison.
Hi, Heather.
Good to see you too.
TGIF, I know we're all glad that it's Friday, so it's such a crazy week, and we're all ready for the weekend here, but we're going to end it on a sad note because Congress has failed us once again.
Or at least I should just clarify by saying the House has failed us because yesterday they did something absolutely despicable.
Republicans and one independent joined in with all Democrats to approve a three year extension for 350,000 Haitians that are here in the United States on temporary protected status.
This extension would allow them to stay here for another three years when, let's not forget, they are here on temporary protected status.
Key emphasis on the word temporary.
So that should have ended long ago, but this extension for these people has gone on.
Eight times now.
This will be the ninth time if this does pass.
And let's not forget, this TPS was initially granted to these Haitians following a devastating 2010 earthquake that did, you know, wipe out much of that area.
I think it killed over 200,000 people, and the country was in crisis.
But it's now been 16 years since that happened, and all of those people are still here.
Now, a handful, a large handful of these people are also just Haitians that have come into the country illegally, and they are also protected by this TPS.
So for 10 Republicans and one independent to vote with all Democrats to allow these people here is a form of amnesty for sure.
And then we also have to consider the fact that now all of these people that have been here are probably having kids here too.
And then we get into the birthright citizenship issue where we're now going to see all of these people who never should have been let in here in the first place allowed to stay here in America while we are in the midst of this massive immigration crisis.
It continues to unfold, it continues to worsen.
And I think the most devastating part of it all is the fact that.
Republicans who are supposed to be with the president, with the America First agenda, aligned with mass deportations, are now fighting for mass amnesty.
Representative Brandon Gell did a great job on the House floor explaining why this could and should never pass.
Take a listen.
So let's ask ourselves Does mass migration from Haiti benefit the American people?
The answer is obviously no.
65%.
Of non immigrant Haitian headed households are on welfare.
Does that make America stronger or more prosperous or more wealthy in any way?
Of course it doesn't.
And yet we're being asked to give them amnesty and make these absolutely horrendous years of open borders effectively permanent.
So, really devastating that again, Republicans would join in with Democrats to allow this.
And then it even gets worse.
I hate to say it, but it even gets worse because now we have complete rhinos like Don Bacon, who thankfully is retiring.
But regardless, now Don Bacon has been emboldened to actually go so far as to say that he's going to fight for TPS for all of these countries that have allowed their people to come in here under temporary protected status.
He's saying he's now going to look at Venezuela and El Salvador to grant them an extension as well.
So, this is a real problem.
And it's even more problematic when you have Republicans like Don Bacon pushing for mass amnesty for illegals.
Thankfully, Heather, this is seemingly dead on arrival in the Senate.
Many Republicans in the Senate have said they will reject this at all costs.
And the president has also stated he will veto it if, for some reason, it does pass the Senate.
But chances are very slim.
But I think it's important we keep talking about it because this is a real problem and it's infecting the Republican Party in Congress.
Yeah.
And I feel like people need to understand 315,000 people.
From one country, that's an entire city.
Like, there's more people in like Manchester, New Hampshire, Concord, New Hampshire.
I mean, 350,000 people is literally the importation of an entire city of foreigners.
Like, it's actually pretty crazy when you think about that.
But I mean, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if a bunch of them were working the elections in Fulton County because when I was down there, we just had our guests on, Georgia State Election Board member, and some people down there.
But one thing that I remembered from Georgia back when I covered there, a lot of the temp workers were literally foreign citizens.
So, like, even the ones that come over, a ton of them are on welfare programs and stuff like that.
But, like, when they need jobs in these sanctuary cities, they go to these temp agencies run or funded by people like Stacey Abrams, right?
And then, like, you know, they need temporary jobs.
And then, guess where they end up?
Election workers.
And guess who controls, you know, their visas, their ability to stay here?
I mean, it's just so corrupted.
And it's kind of like the government is not actually helping these people.
It's just using them and exploiting them.
Yeah, absolutely.
And it's not fair to the American people, the hardworking taxpayer that then in turn has to fund these people.
I mean, 65% of Haitians here in America are on welfare.
So we're funding all of this.
We are supporting them.
And that's just not okay.
This is not what we, the people, voted for.
And it is so incredibly disappointing to see Republicans in Congress so, you know, So, misaligned with the base on this issue.
It's very disappointing.
You would expect it from Democrats, but Republicans, I mean, come on, it's just absurd.
Leaving Politics Behind00:01:20
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, it's still Friday, so we can still end on a good note because it is still Friday.
Yes, it is.
And that's a positive.
Yeah, exactly.
I mean, anything fun on Allison's plans this weekend?
I mean, now that we're checked out, we're leaving the politics behind us.
What are you getting?
Well, I'm hoping my husband has a really nice surprise.
Me.
It's been a very stressful week.
So I'm looking forward to some fun and exciting surprise.
And I'm hoping that surprise entails a spa because that sounds really nice.
But we'll see.
I'll let you know on Monday.
Well, if you're watching, pray right now that Allison's husband treats her to a nice spa day this weekend.
Allison, thank you so much for joining us.
Thank you so much, Heather.
Take care.
Well, that's it.
Make sure you go out, spend time with your family, unplug from social media and the news because Lord knows there'll be plenty of it waiting for you when you rejoin us on Monday.