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Oct. 21, 2022 - The Megyn Kelly Show
01:37:11
20221021_kids-and-vaccines-cnn-and-toobin-and-life-after-ca
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Vaccine Risks and Heart Ailments 00:14:49
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Welcome to the Megyn Kelly Show.
Your home for open, honest and provocative conversations.
Hey, everyone, I'm Megan Kelly.
Welcome to the Megan Kelly Show, and happy Friday.
Should the COVID vaccine be added to the list of mandatory vaccines your child has to have in order to attend school?
The CDC just recommended yes, which is absolutely outrageous, given the risks to children from these vaccines and the extremely low risk children face from COVID.
Although the CDC's guidance is not binding on states, local authorities tend to follow the CDC.
That is what happened with school closures, you may remember.
And this one's even more controversial because the vaccines are potentially dangerous to children.
Young people are being injured by these vaccines.
And as I tweeted out correctly the other day, a disturbing number of children are dying after getting them.
It's rare, but it's happening.
If you are between the ages of 16 and 24, your chances of developing myocarditis, a heart infection that is potentially very dangerous, is about one in 3,000, according to Dr. Vinay Prasad.
Prasad is a Johns Hopkins educated physician and expert in public health.
He's been on this program.
He is not anti-vaccine, and he's been an honest broker on this.
Some studies put the chances even higher, like a recent one out of Thailand.
And that's why the relatively recent study out of Thailand is so compelling, because that Thai study looked at 301 patients between the ages of 13 and 18, did antibody studies, showed that none of them had evidence of having had COVID.
They did extensive cardiac workups on these kids prior to vaccine.
None of them had any cardiac anomalies.
And then, within immediately, within days after getting vaccinated, 29.4%, 30% of them had cardiac abnormalities following vaccination.
You don't see that all over the media.
Vinay, who was also present in that interview of an IV, suggested it was more like one in 30.
The point is, there is a decent chance that your kid could potentially contract a heart ailment as a result of these vaccines.
Moderna has higher rates of complications than Pfizer, and dose two is considered more dangerous than dose one.
Several foreign countries have banned or discouraged the use of Moderna in young men altogether, but Pfizer also has seen complications.
Sometimes the myocarditis is clinical, and that means your kid knows he has a problem.
He has chest pains, he's short of breath, et cetera.
You can take him to the doctor.
Doctors say perhaps as many as half of all these myocarditis cases, however, are subclinical, meaning your kid might not even know he or she has an issue because there are no symptoms.
So you can't get him on medication because you don't know it's a problem.
Vaccine defenders are quick to point out that most cases of post-vaccine myocarditis are, quote, mild.
They're mild.
That wouldn't make me feel better for giving my kid a vaccine he doesn't need.
He's had COVID, like most kids.
Okay, but they say it's mild.
But there is a dispute in the medical community about whether any myocarditis can be considered mild.
Some say that's like saying your teen, oh, he just had a mild heart attack.
Oh, really?
My 13-year-old?
Okay, no problem.
Others say no, no, mild myocarditis is something that we're seeing post-vaccine, and it is something from which one can easily and quickly recover.
Do you want to take the risk?
That's up to you.
Shouldn't be mandated.
The CDC has no business telling states it should be on that list.
Dr. Prasad, back to him, interviewed a pediatric rheumatologist not long ago who has examined images of children's hearts after so-called mild myocarditis.
And here is how he described it.
You know, there is mild transient pericarditis where people with lupus or people with other immune diseases have just inflammation of the pericardium and that goes away.
And it's mild.
And it is truly mild and transient.
And I think that the description of it makes some people think that this is what we're dealing with.
And I've actually had some people say, you know, well, well, that's all it is.
But it's not.
It's different in that, you know, it actually affects the myocardium and it actually, in some cases, leaves imaging changes that although we don't know the ramifications of it and although they seem to be hopefully evolving in a positive direction in these patients,
you know, the bottom line is that I think that as a parent, you know, if you were a pediatric cardiologist or a doctor and your child had those imaging findings, you wouldn't be thrilled.
You wouldn't be thrilled.
Yeah.
Discussing myocarditis and pericarditis there.
Another complication.
A study published in September's edition of The Lancet looked at post-vaccine myocarditis in people between the ages of 12 and 29.
It found that 90 days after they got the shot and got the myocarditis, one in six had not recovered from their myocarditis.
Okay.
One in six.
50% still had at least one symptom of the myocarditis, palpitations, chest pain, et cetera.
One third of these young people were still missing school or work because of myocarditis.
One in four still had restrictions on their physical activity even after so-called full recovery.
Many were still on serious cardiac medications.
Why would a parent with a healthy 12-year-old give them the vaccine with these risks when the risk of contracting COVID, unless you are otherwise immunocompromised, is next to nothing?
All of this leads me to ask, why aren't more reporters raising questions about the safety of these vaccines for kids?
And how on earth can the CDC justify adding them to its list of recommended mandatory vaccines for children?
Once it goes on this list, state after state will say, let's put it up there with the MMR vaccine.
Let's make it a prerequisite for children to attend school.
We're not there yet, but that's what's about to happen.
The problems, by the way, are not limited to negative symptoms, cardiac symptoms, and even potential hospitalization.
In our country and abroad, too many young people are dying post-vaccination.
Again, it's rare, but it is happening.
And the numbers to me are downright scary.
In New York, a 24-year-old college student recently died after getting the Pfizer vaccine in what officials identified as vaccine-related myocarditis.
In Kansas, a 20-year-old nursing student died in late September of cardiac arrest, one day after getting the mandatory vaccine.
Her mother believed the vaccine was to blame for her otherwise healthy daughter's death.
In Michigan and Connecticut, two young teens died post-vaccination.
The pathology reports were studied by researchers who concluded that they died from a catechlolamine-induced injury and not typical myocarditis.
However, they said we need more research on whether that offending injury occurred as a result of the vaccine, which may have caused the damage that led to a fatal arrhythmia.
In New Zealand, the COVID Vaccine Independent Safety Monitoring Board said in April 2022 that a teenager died of myocarditis they believe was linked to the Pfizer vax.
The board also concluded the death of a 13-year-old child appeared to be linked to the vaccine, as was the death of a 26-year-old young woman who contracted myocarditis after getting the Pfizer vax.
In Sonoma County, California, a 15-year-old died of a heart attack 48 hours after getting the vaccine.
Officials did not explicitly link that death to the vaccine, but simply declared the cause of death unknown.
In Vietnam, at least four children ages 12 to 16 died following their Pfizer vaccinations in late November, early December 2021.
A 23-year-old Vietnamese woman died following her second Pfizer shot in January 2022.
Officials linked those deaths to the vaccinations.
In Thailand, a 16-year-old boy died from blood clots following the Pfizer vaccine.
In Manchester, England, an 18-year-old died from a blood clot following the AstraZeneca vaccine.
These are just a few examples.
I know about these because I'm in the news.
I've been doing interviews on this time after time, and so I've got to stay abreast of this.
The average citizen doesn't hear these cases reported because the media doesn't want to talk about it.
It doesn't mean anyone who gets a vaccine is going to get myocarditis or is going to die, obviously.
But what's with the silencing?
What's with the shaming for anybody who wants to talk about these cases and ask for more data on exactly how many cases this has happened in and what the risk actually is to our kids?
These numbers, these cases, they don't even begin to cover the number of cases on VARES where doctors and medical professionals have to report vaccine injuries or their people can report them.
They don't begin to cover the number of cases there of post-vaccination injury or death.
And keep in mind, many such injuries never find their way onto VARES at all.
We've had vaccine-injured guests on this show whose doctors wouldn't post their severe vaccine-related injuries.
And others who were dropped from the vaccine clinical trials altogether after severe injury occurred during the trials.
Our public health officials and the media are so blinded by their adherence to universal vaccination at all costs, they're not being honest about the data.
More questions need to be asked.
We are talking about children.
Mandating this vaccine is morally wrong.
Putting it on this schedule is insane.
Dr. Marty McCary of Johns Hopkins called the CDC's decision to add this to the vaccine schedule for kids shameful.
Dr. Prasad used the term catastrophic.
Both say parents now will be less likely to get any of the recommended vaccines, the MMR vaccine and so on, because it undermines faith in the CDC.
This decision is going to cost lives.
The CDC cannot be trusted.
They're not being honest about the data, and they haven't been for some time.
They're not even disclosing the data.
The human trials for the current vaccine were never made public.
The vaccine companies are calling them top secret.
Why can't we see them?
Why can we not see the data?
How can they mandate that we stick our kids with this thing without showing us these data?
All of this risk for a vaccine that shows no reduction in disease for children.
Dr. McCary of Johns Hopkins said exactly that on Fox News.
In fact, it may endanger them.
Resist this madness and demand more information.
The fight is on now at the state to state level.
That's where it's going next.
Don't let them shame you into silence.
If you don't stand up, who will?
We'll be right back with Mary Catherine Hamm to respond right after this break.
Here with you now, Mary Catherine Hamm.
She is host of the podcast, Getting Hammered, which is just amazing.
And also, we think employed by CNN, but we'll get to that in a second.
MK, how you doing?
I'm doing all right.
Hanging in there.
Good.
All right.
So am I, where am I going wrong on this recommendation that the COVID vaccine be added to the list of mandatories?
Look, I don't think it's the right decision.
Everything in life is a risk analysis, right?
And it should be in science too.
And you should be dealing with the data and you should be dealing with like what the risks are to actual patients here.
Throughout the entire COVID era, the tendency has been, especially among children who are at incredibly low risk for serious COVID, has been to exaggerate their risk in the actual disease and to ignore other risks, all the other risks, whether it's their social interactions, whether it's this teenage, particularly teenage boys with the myocarditis where they have this increased risk.
They have almost no data on these vaccines with children, and then they just pretend that the data dictates these recommendations.
When you go scratch the data or you go listen to the HIP discussions, these guys are going, I don't think this should really be used for mandates, but I guess we're going to say yes.
And that is not heartening.
And I think for me, the risk analysis I'm concerned about is I think there's far greater risk to the regular schedule of vaccines, traditional ones, MMR, as they call it in Raising Arizona, these kinds of things that will suffer because trust will suffer.
Scratching the Data on Mandates 00:09:14
You've got two things going on here.
One, a broken habit of well visits for your children because they made it so hard to go to the pediatrician for two years.
And then another broken trust with public health officials with a lot of good reason.
There was a June meeting with ACIP, which is this advisory board that made this decision.
And there's just a perfect illustration of this that a mom who's a data hound down in Georgia caught Kelly in Georgia of COVID, Georgia.
She caught the CDC misrepresenting the risk of death to children to the ACIP.
It was, they were double counting COVID deaths among children over a period of time that was longer.
They were not, they were doing apples and oranges.
It was meant to be fear-mongering.
It was meant to pressure this group of people.
It was flat out wrong.
And it leads them to make decisions that are not correct.
Like they, public health needs to be straight with us and they repeatedly are not straight with us.
That's why my frustration in this whole thing has been, I know I can't trust the CDC.
I can't.
I can't trust the WHO.
I can't trust the NIH.
So who do I trust?
You know, I don't want to go hardcore the other way.
And I understand these are respected doctors, but I don't want to go hardcore, full only Dr. Malone, you know, who I realize is very much against the vaccines.
And I listen to him and I consider him.
But I'm trying to find a moderate voice who I can trust.
That's why I do listen to Vinay Prasad.
I listen to Dr. Marty McCary.
I listen to a lot of experts that we've had on this show who I try to find who are, I think, honest brokers.
And what those people are saying is that, like I said in the talking points memo, one dose is far less problematic than two doses.
Boys are at increased risk versus girls.
And Pfizer may be mildly better than Moderna.
You know, some of some countries overseas are saying no Moderna at all for that age group.
But you heard the deaths I just went through.
Most of them are Pfizer.
And the only reason we have those reported in the news for the most part, and the reason that so many of them are overseas is our media and our public health officials here won't say the vaccine led to somebody's death because they say it's impossible to prove.
But it's like, okay, perfectly healthy kid gets the Moderna vaccine or the Pfizer vaccine on Tuesday and dies on Friday of myocarditis and had no problem with myocarditis or heart health issues prior to getting the vaccine.
You have to make a deduction.
Authorities overseas are much quicker to say, well, obviously that's vaccine-induced myocarditis that led to the person's death.
Over here, we're so pro-vax.
It's, you can't say that.
We don't know what caused it.
Right.
Well, and what the answer will be, and it's, it's right, if you're doing your risk analysis, they will say, well, this is a very small risk.
That's part of the discussion, right?
But we should have the discussion about the risk.
And by the way, we've spent two years talking about a minuscule risk to young, healthy children of bad effects from COVID, right?
So I don't want to hear just one side of the risks.
I would like to balance them.
Because that's what grownups do.
And they don't tell people to shut up about their experiences.
To the point you just raised, you know, I hadn't even thought about it this way, but they exaggerate the risk of dying from COVID for children by over counting kids who die with COVID.
You know, they go into the hospital for something else.
They happen to have COVID and they die.
They count them as deaths from COVID and do the funny numbers like you point out, the woman in Georgia found them doing.
So one way they want to inflate artificially the number of kids dying from COVID.
But the other way, they won't count anything unless they have proof positive.
Well, how do you get proof positive?
It's like, that's why the Thailand study is so interesting, because they took kids they knew had not had COVID and did not have cardiovascular issues, then gave them the vaccine and then saw the increase in myocarditis and cardiac issues.
Like that, I'm not talking about deaths there.
I'm talking about heart complications from the COVID vaccine.
That's like, that's as good as you're going to get.
And then if those kids wind up dying from myocarditis, what are they going to say?
We have no idea what caused it.
Well, and Prasad calls it a safety signal.
And that safety signal is something you should pay attention to and you should adjust accordingly, which is the thing we have been totally incapable of doing in American public health since this began.
You see places where like Sweden and Denmark, they'll go, oh, well, maybe we should just reduce it to one shot for teenagers.
Maybe we should warn teenage boys that perhaps the second one is problematic.
Give people this information.
They don't mandate them for young people who are at very low risk and yet face different risks, but they say you can, or sometimes they even argue against it.
But just like with school closings, we are on a completely different page than the rest of public health throughout the developed world.
And it's this sort of maniacal, myopic focus on only one risk, as if COVID is the only thing. that can hurt your children.
It's just not true.
And grownups weigh risks.
They don't just consider one.
Think about how, I don't know about you, but I know lots of women who postpone their annual physical because they don't want to get on the scale.
Think about the parents who are now going to be postponing the wellness visit for their kids because they know their doctor is going to say, well, not only should he get the MMR or does he have the, I have to have the following vaccines, you got to get that COVID vaccine.
CDC recommended it.
And now as a result, our state has made it part of the mandatory list.
You can't go to school without this.
And they use the, the CDC knows this is where it's going.
And still those, I almost said effort.
I'm trying to clean up my mouth a little bit, slightly.
They voted 15 to zero for this, 15 to 0.
Well, and if you watch them discuss these things that they vote unanimously on, they don't feel as confident as the vote reflects, right?
But you have to actually watch that discussion.
Some of this, I think, is just like pressure, social pressure.
And they're like, well, I'm not sure I'm going to raise a bunch of issues with this, but then I'm just going to vote yes.
And it is disingenuous to say that this does not lead to mandates.
Okay, sure, they don't make the actual mandate, but this is what states and school systems and counties and cities will use to say, this is what we use to justify what we require for activities for school as if children haven't had enough things taken away from them.
In DC, they tried to do this before school started this year and realized it would cut out about 40% of the black student community, which is a problem.
And so they postponed it till January.
What happens now?
Perhaps they look at the CDC and go, look, now we have our justification.
And again, when you make that decision to skip the wellness visit, if you're afraid about being pressured about this particular thing, if you have justified concerns about this particular vaccination, guess what you're going to end up missing?
Your MMR update.
The ones that are the traditional real problems that can cause real problems if we skip them en masse are going to be the things you miss.
And I have genuinely think about the rest of this.
And those are real vaccines.
Those are things that will actually prevent you from getting measles, mumps, rubella, you know, unlike this vaccine, which will not prevent you or your child from getting COVID at all, despite what the CDC originally said.
So you can stick your kid with this, with this needle and he can very well get COVID anyway.
You know, I was way down the rabbit hole on McCary and Prasad and all these guys.
And there was something of Vinay's, it's spell Vinay, but it's pronounced Vinay.
Forgive me, I always forget.
On his substack, he posted an article from a third year medical student and he was saying, this guy's got more sense than most public health officials out there today.
And this third year medical student had taken a look at the data and the studies and was saying that these vaccines for children and teenagers and young people like him, he's, you know, third year med student, so his young 20s, have caused more hospitalizations than they have prevented.
That that is what the studies seem to show, that they've caused more hospitalizations than they've prevented.
And Vinay was saying, I'd be happy to have this guy in the medical profession and treating my own son.
This is what is a sensible conclusion after looking at all the data.
And yet you look at your school administrator and he just says, CC.
Well, they've already been boosting college students as a requirement to come back to school, which by the way, I ain't paying money for that.
My tens of thousands of dollars to send this kid off and boost him before he can go sit in a three masks set in a virtual classroom.
Media Selectivity and Trust Polls 00:03:10
But like the cost-benefit analysis on that is not good.
But like, this is, this is where we are that, I mean, Paul Offutt, who's like the most pro-vax guy there is, is like, I don't know, like boosters for young people.
Like, that doesn't make that much sense.
That's not a direct quote.
I'm paraphrasing.
But this is, but when that, when, when he is telling you that, it's a real issue.
And it's, why can't we calibrate to risk?
Why couldn't we admit that an 80-year-old was facing different risk than a five-year-old?
Why couldn't we say that outdoors was pretty daggon safe and indoors was not, like there were so many missed exits along the way?
Here went along with it.
Our, just our industry was complicit and remains complicit.
This is what's so disturbing.
Like you, you know you, you stick a toe in these waters of like, i'm concerned.
I'm seeing very troubling data and it's like you know like, obviously there's the disinformation dozen and what's happened to all of them.
But um, that's wrong.
Our, our industry is supposed.
We get paid to be curious, we get paid to say bullshit, that's not part of the accepted narrative, and instead say oh, that's interesting, where are you getting that from?
Let's look at that, let's go down that rabbit hole, let's.
Why aren't they giving us the data behind these clinical trials?
But you're right, we should have that.
Um, and I do think it's one of the reasons why we just saw that poll and uh, there was one saying nearly 60 have absolutely no faith in the media, zero faith in this 60 of Americans.
And one showing 38.
Uh, as long as 30 have no faith in the media.
Independents have no faith in the media.
Republicans have no faith in the media.
The only people with any faith left are some of the Democrats mk, but it's all.
They're working hard on it, trying to pull that number up.
Well, of course, because it's all their narratives.
Yeah, look it's.
Skepticism is good for you and it's uh, it's good to apply it to many large institutions uh, all of the government institutions.
And yet media is often very selective about how it applies skepticism, or else it would listen to some of these discussions and scratch some of the data and go, oh wait, this is not exactly what we are being presented, but they don't do that in particular cases and this is one of those particular cases.
By the way, leave it to the media to have like 80 plus percent.
Uh, say that they're a threat to democracy.
It's like the only thing we have bipartisan agreement on apparently uh, in one poll and then in the Gallup poll, it's like seven percent have a great amount of trust for media, and media is like awesome job guys, that's us pick up your trophy.
Like truly, it's like.
And the 7% are like Nora O'Donnell, Don Lemmett.
It's like this select group of people who are actually in the media because nobody on the outside still believes in them.
It's, it's not good.
And part of it is just it's so populated by people who agree with each other.
And the social pressure can be so large to not step out.
And the institutional incentives to agree with everyone are great, right?
Taking Shots at Colleagues 00:15:01
Well, this is what's interesting about you.
You, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but you kind of enjoy being a contrarian.
You don't mind being, you know, the one in the room saying that the different thing, the old one, these things is not like the others.
You've got three young kids, you know.
That's you.
So you don't mind going against the green.
I don't.
I enjoy it because I think, and I tell college students this because I go to college campuses to be the weirdo who disagrees with all of them.
It's important for rooms to have weirdos.
And it's important for someone to be the weirdo in the room sometimes just to just to mess with the thoughts, just to test them.
Because if you don't test them, then you end up convincing yourself with a lot of motivated reasoning, never testing your confirmation bias.
And these things lead us to really unhealthy conclusions.
And so rooms need weirdos.
I'm happy to be that weirdo.
I do it often.
And if you don't have it, it can get really dangerous.
And I think that's what you see in a lot of media.
All right.
This is the perfect place for us to take a quick break because being a weirdo at CNN is kind of a thing.
MK's not actually one, but there's plenty over there.
And you will not believe what happened to her as a result of her calling out one you know very well.
And that is Jeffrey Toobin for his love of masturbation when in front of a Zoom camera.
That's where we're going to pick it up right after this.
Don't go away.
Well, as many of you know, Mary Catherine Hamm is one of the top conservative commentators in the business.
We've been friends and I've known her forever and she's really the best at what she does.
CNN hired her for that reason exactly, of course.
But then the problem is she had the guts to throw some truth bombs about then network legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin and CNN was a little cool on that idea as it turned out.
If you need a reminder on Toobin, he's the guy who left his Zoom on and jerked off in front of his colleagues at the New Yorker while preparing for election night coverage.
These poor people were just sitting there pretending to be analyzing election results when he whipped it out and started pleasuring himself.
And they had to look at that.
Now, he also had a job as the chief legal analyst over at CNN.
That's not where he did it, but he was on air with them.
And they had to make a decision about what to do with him.
He did not get fired.
Now we know why, because Jeff Zucker had his own Me Too problems and had a host of MeTooers over there.
Toobin was just one who had sexual problems.
And so he just got a suspension.
He got an eight-month suspension.
Mary Catherine says, after she sent out some pretty benign tweets about Toobin, she was, without her knowledge, quietly suspended.
The punishment was so quiet, they never told her about it until it was over.
All right, Mary Catherine.
So it started because you had a little tweet dust up with some internal people at CNN on whether they were overcovering January 6th compared to the Capitol Hill baseball field shooting, which had taken place in 2017.
You were kind of saying, you know, we moved on from the shooting of the Republicans, the attempted and actual shooting of the Republicans really quickly and not so much on January 6th.
Yeah, the political violence double standard is one that really sticks in my old craw.
And so I bring it up every now and then.
And I just, look, I tweeted something what I thought was calm and factual about our coverage.
I know that it's dicey to do that when you're at a media outlet.
A colleague of mine came back at me about it and we had an argument about it that got like medium heated, I would say.
Because I think, look, it's my job to comment on media coverage on national stories.
And sometimes that is going to fall afoul of the organization you're working for.
That's always going to be a weird situation.
So I try to keep it above board.
In that discussion, I brought up Toobin.
Toobin was still an employee of the network.
This is under the Zucker regime, not the new one.
And that was deemed not appropriate.
I didn't know this because no one told me.
Now, I knew that that was possible, that that was not appropriate under the rules of sort of avoiding shooting inside the tent.
However, I rejected the idea that I have to stay silent about this obviously egregious content, conduct, and just move on, right?
If you're going to fact check me, if we're going to have this argument, I've got some other issues you could talk about, right?
Like I just, the idea that female colleagues are asked to be quiet about that particular thing, I don't, I don't buy it.
And I will take the punishment.
I would prefer to be told about the punishment.
Wait, but before we get to the silent suspension, which is just so weird, it's like no balls.
Okay.
They knew what they were doing was wrong and they didn't have the balls to tell you.
It's ironic because we're talking a lot about men, genitalia in this little segment.
But in any event, so much.
So before the quiet suspension, the Twitter dust stop, you were trying to say, correct me if I'm wrong, but you were having this argument with this guy, Andrew Kaczynski, who's at CNN, who was ripping on you saying, you did, you did cover.
And CNN, using you, did cover the Capitol Hill shooting of the Republicans.
You know, you were there and you were like, yeah, and therefore I can tell you that we covered it and we moved on within 48 hours.
And he was kind of needling you and you were making the point.
You said, do you need the rest of my itinerary from that day and the day after, which again were basically the only days this was a national story, which was my point.
And then you said, got jacked to say about Cuomo and Toobin, but got to fact check me when he's got nothing.
One jacked off in front of female colleagues and one violated every conflict of interest rule in journalism, referring to Chris Cuomo, lied about it and got fired.
But I'm the issue because I think the congressional baseball shooting was covered too lightly and taxes are too high.
Sure, dude.
Which was pretty brilliant.
And that, so point well taken.
You're basically saying, how do I get attacked for saying something about Toobin?
And I don't remember you out there saying, why did Toobin jerk off in front of all his colleagues?
Or Cuomo?
I'm the problem.
I'm the problem for making this calm observation about coverage that I was involved with.
And we did, I mean, truly, truly, people will tell you in media that like Giffords and the congressional baseball shooting, which are fairly analogous, were covered the same way.
It's, it's not true.
They weren't.
It is not true.
And I know because I was a block and a half from the baseball field where I lived when someone, the killer, it turns out, or the attempted murderer, camped out in my neighborhood for a month looking for people of my ideology to kill.
And then he attempts it.
And within 48 hours, those news vans were out of there, man.
And you can't give me the excuse that, oh, it was it was far flung from all the major media outlets.
We're six miles away.
We are six miles away.
And they just, it was, it was not as big a deal because some forms of political violence are not as big a deal.
That is just how it's covered.
This is the point you were trying to make totally legitimate.
You got attacked.
You got attacked first internally by a colleague.
So you were first just taking issue with the amount of coverage at CNN.
Then a CNN colleague attacked you saying you're wrong, basically.
And then you said, you got a lot to say about me, but you didn't say so much about Toobin or Cuomo.
So silent, right?
Silence is deafening.
So then how many months go by that you, we now know, were intentionally suddenly, you were, you were, you were disappeared.
Like it was like, mommy, dearest, if she doesn't like you, she can.
It was, it was till, it was until July.
So that's a, that's seven, it was beginning of January till July.
So it's about seven months to Toobin's eight months.
And you got a seven month suspension for making a comment about Jeffrey Toobin.
And Jeffrey Toobin, he he got an eight month suspension for actually tubing.
Yes.
So you will see what led me to want to talk about this because I thought to myself, is this formulated to tick me off as much as possible?
And you have a couple options here.
Look, Zucker's gone, Toobin's gone, or he was gone several weeks after I was informed of this.
I could let it lie.
My options are I'm under contract.
I can go back and do my job with a smile on my face.
That didn't feel right.
I could negotiate myself out of it quietly.
Also, the quiet part doesn't work for me.
Or three, I could not be quiet.
I could tell the truth because I think it's the right thing to do.
And by the way, someday when my children are old enough to hear this story, which must be censored for them, I have three daughters.
Like that's how terrible the story is.
One day when I can tell them, I can't tell them that I shut up about it because this was the reason given to me that in this dust up, the mentioning of Toobin required a breather.
I was not informed of the breather.
This all happened under the old regime, but then I was told, just come back.
I said to myself, look, I can't pretend that nothing happened.
So here's what happened.
And did we not learn during Me Too that institutional silence and women's silence about these kind of things perpetuates these kind of things?
And again, one more, one more thing, which I told, like, I'm a real say it to your face kind of person.
I could have like, I guess the media thing would do to me, would be like a leak it to an outlet anonymously.
Like, this is what happened to me.
I just say things from me.
So I told them this, which is, as a woman in media, I have been asked to comment on every errant penis in the media industry.
And there are so many for the past five years, sometimes to the exclusion of all the other things I'd like to talk about, like tax policy, health policy, I don't know, foreign policy.
And yet I do it because it's the right thing to do, even though it can be a little humiliating to be on TV talking about nothing but errant penises of your colleagues.
The indignity.
I reject that this is the one penis that I'm not allowed to talk about.
I reject it.
That penis, but it has to be done.
You are not the one who unleashed it on the Zoom.
It was out there for the discussion.
By the way.
And you made this point at the time.
And this is what it gets to me.
I wouldn't have been rehabilitated from something like this.
I would have, well, I would have been relegated to an OnlyFans page, but like, I would not have a career after that.
We all know that.
No, hell no.
Like, literally think about it.
Forgive me for going X-rated, but picture this.
If a woman dropped Trow and her underwear and started masturbating on a Zoom call for the New Yorker, she would never work again in the news business ever.
If you just had to sit there watching her pleasure herself, she would never ever be taken seriously.
Certainly not in his job.
I said this at the time.
Like, maybe, maybe, like, if you're the entertainment correspondent, maybe there's a way back.
Not as the guy who analyzes the Supreme Court.
No.
And I, I just, I can't shut up about that particular thing.
Uh, and further, I was, I was informed that I wasn't informed because I was on a maternity leave and they wanted me to like be with my baby.
And seven months.
They had a good policy.
Yeah.
Well, that's the other thing.
So how did you not know you were suspended?
Right.
Because it's, I think the audience might be like, what do you mean?
You know, like, didn't you know that's a long time not to not?
Yeah, no, no, I had, I, of course, had suspicions.
I just wasn't told that this was a disciplinary action until after it was over.
Well, and in TV, when you're a contributor and they're not calling you, you never know why.
You could think like, oh, you know, they've soured on me, you know, suddenly.
And they have the prerogative.
They have the prerogative to not call me.
But you could like call me and break up with me or something or tell me why.
It's not like you were doing a daily show.
Am I online dating?
What are we doing?
Right.
You didn't even swipe on me.
So it's not like you're doing a daily show.
You're a contributor.
So it's sort of at their pleasure that you that you get on the air day to day.
And so after month after month after month, suddenly you're like, it's been a long time.
What's going on?
So then how did you find out?
How did they reveal to you that you had been turfed all that time?
Someone called me to tell me sort of in like management or what have you.
And I just, I was taken aback, taken aback, Megan, by this, because I know, look, we work in live TV.
You're going to say stuff.
We all are on Twitter.
I'm going to know what that's like, right?
Like, so you just, I can take my lumps, but I have to, you have to tell me about it, right?
And I might argue with you about whether I should say the thing or whether I should have had the argument.
Just tell me about it.
My actual job is to have contentious arguments, right?
So I could do that.
But wait, but the thing that they were telling you they were upset about was you shooting inside the tent.
You know, you took a shot at another CNNer.
Forget the subject matter, but you took a shot at another CNNer.
And my question to you is: did Andrew Kaczynski, the guy who opened fire on the CNNer, you, he was the one who first drew blood.
Did he get suspended?
I asked if there had been a talking too and I or anything.
No, no, there was no, there, it was a cagey answer, but I, to my knowledge, no.
And I, I noted pointedly the gender disparity in this treatment.
Uh, let's hear it.
Andrew Kaczynski, I follow you on Twitter.
Um, were you suspended or disciplined in any way for taking a shot at MK Ham?
Go ahead and tweet out the answer and then we'll know.
Because even he must see how wrong this is, how poorly you were treated, and just how immoral that decision was by CNN.
I mean, it's good that they finally rectified it, but what if anything did they offer you to make up for this treatment?
Well, Andrew and I, by the way, had a behind the scenes like, because if I have a conflict with somebody, I'll make sure we're cool.
Owning Ideological Mistakes 00:15:08
I don't mind having arguments with somebody and then just moving on.
And there was some ugly trolling that got involved in the whole thing.
So I said, let's check in, checked in.
We had a nice conversation, a little after action report.
And this is my issue with like the way this was presented to me was this thing happened.
It's because of these ways that, you know, you violated the spirit of the shooting inside the tent thing.
You weren't told because you were on maternity leave.
And now you can come back.
And again, quietly doing that didn't sit right with me.
And look, I started my career disagreeing with Bill O'Reilly every week.
It's like it's sort of, this is like in my nature.
It has what it's what has served me throughout my career.
I have this glitch where I'm like, oh, are you more powerful?
And also I think you're wrong.
Let's talk about that.
I would love it.
Like a moth to the flame.
Right.
So I'm, I'm comfortable with that.
I was in my 20s when I started doing that.
And it's not in my character to leave this be.
And I knew it would eat me up inside if I did.
So I dropped it and I met Substack.
And a great piece, which I recommend everybody, everybody read.
It's really good.
It's really powerful.
In the age of quiet quitting, I was quiet suspended and I can't shut up about it.
And you go on.
So what happened?
Did you just drop that without any warning?
And then CNN read it and executives read it.
And then how did they react?
I don't have a reaction.
No one called you?
No.
My God, this is drama.
So you don't know what, do you know what your status is there?
Like, are you, are you still an employee?
Are you still like, what's happening?
Yeah, I mean, to my knowledge, I am.
This is a weird professional situation, MK.
Well, it is.
And you know what?
When you're in a weird situation, sometimes the best and simplest answer is to tell the truth.
And that is what I did.
And again, I appreciate the sort of attempt to say like, okay, this is sort of the slate is clean because I think the slate should have been clean or that we should have had a brief talk and then it was clean.
I just can't ignore the seven months of sleep before that.
The woman should have come to you and said, I am so embarrassed to have to tell you this.
I'm new in this regime.
You know, there's new management.
And I'm horrified to find out you've been turfed for seven months for this comment in Jeffrey 2 and it was wrong.
We'll do a public apology if you want.
We will do a memo internally, however you want us to handle this.
This is my proposal and how we should handle it.
But here are your flowers and a raise and welcome back.
That's what should have happened.
If this was not the wrongdoer, but just the executor of the policy and the guy who did, who made the decision, who we believe is Jeff Zucker, then he got outed.
I explained at the top why I believe he made this decision.
So he's gone, but the people there can actually try to make it right for you.
So are you getting booked?
Like, are you still in purgatory?
Not at the moment.
I feel like purgatory is still in action.
Again, there had been an offer to just like come back, but I understood that once again, talking might be detrimental to me, but I did it because I thought it was the right thing to do.
And I appreciate many of my colleagues who like among them Alice Stewart and Scott Jennings, who do yeoman's work over there bringing our side to the table.
And I think that some of the changes being made are necessary and correct ones.
And yet I'm in this weird middle ground.
They want your voice, but not your voice.
Well, not when it's taking aim at anything they've done.
Meanwhile, this is the thing about media where media demands transparency, answers, self-reflection from every other industry.
Well, maybe not the HIP, but every other industry, but itself.
But sometimes you got to have that.
So here I am.
Well, I mean, listen, I'm old enough to remember when the Roger Ale scandal broke at Fox.
They did stories talking about how wrong it is to silence women and how this culture of silence can lead to pernicious results.
And that's true.
They're right.
But not a moment of self-reflection over, let's face it, who did they really care about Jeffrey Toobin?
I mean, like, really, like he, he shot himself in the foot.
He was obviously hobbled.
They had to know he didn't have much of a runway left in him.
And you do.
So why, like, if forced to take a position in this fight, would they, would they side with him?
I just think it's a Jeff Zucker thing.
I think he was so protective of all of his me tours because he had his own secret.
He didn't see any other way.
No, I think it was, he was the priority because he was Zucker's priority.
And it doesn't have to do with the new guys, but I was still went through this thing.
And I, again, I cannot be quiet about it because, again, is it calculated protecting Toobin at the cost of me, who has done nothing but tweet, is it calculated to make me as mad as possible?
Yeah.
Has anybody not a Republican over there been good to you in the wake of this?
Oh, well, I've had really good experiences with tons of people at the network, but one of the, you know, one of the things about this is that I don't know.
I'm like semi-persona non-grata at least.
So everyone's like, you know, I don't have close relationships, partly because of COVID.
And we've all been, we were all benched to some degree and didn't see each other for two years.
But I've had good experiences in the past.
I just, again, like needed to air this.
Wait, but did anybody, like any of the anchors or anybody reach out to you after you posted your sub stack?
Few and far between.
Oh my God.
Seriously?
She's being diplomatic.
I'm horrified by that.
I mean, I know a couple people over there.
The audience knows I have no love for CNN, but I know a couple people over there who I would absolutely have thought would have reached out to you and been like, this is bullshit.
I am shocked to learn nobody has.
Well, there were like two people who said like this, who have said through this process, like this was wrong.
More than sort of management said this was wrong.
But yeah, it's not, it's not a mass, I would say.
It doesn't seem like your future there is robust, MK.
And I don't think it should be.
I mean, I'll ask you, I'll squeeze in a break, but I want to ask you on the opposite side whether you think they've got a real future because they're trying to turn things around right now.
I just don't, I think too much damage has been done.
Not necessarily just in this case, but just with the American public.
And then let's talk about some news, right?
Let's talk about Fetterman in Pennsylvania and all the other stuff that's making headlines today as we dig deep into politics, which is her actual specialty, not Toobin.
Stand by Mary Catherine Ham and more right after this.
MK, what do you think?
People ask me all the time, do you think CNN can be saved?
Because now they have new management and some new ownership and I think a new commitment to trying to win back some Republican viewers.
Personally, I've said it before.
I think it's too late.
It's just too late.
They've already told half the country that they hate them.
But you're an insider.
What do you think?
Well, let's take my personal experience off the table for a moment.
I'll put my analyst hat on.
And I do think, look, When I went over there, the brand that CNN had in 2016, although, you know, certainly most news outlets are left of me, like I'm comfortable with that.
That's why I'm here, right?
I get that.
But it was fun.
It was, it was a good time.
It was, I felt like we were presenting all the possible takes, including sort of like a critical, Trump critical conservative, which I was more on the side of, and a Trump favorable conservative.
And we were having, we were fighting the good fight.
Now, there was the part also where, you know, Zucker was giving this like billions of dollars of airtime to Trump.
And then the immediate response after he's oops elected is like, well, now we got to be part of rectifying the situation, right?
As I said on air many times, like you can't, you can't unpresident the president.
Like you got to impeach and convict, or you got to defeat him in an election.
Those are, those are the choices.
But I do think, look, it looks like the new folks are trying to bring in people who, by the way, I don't want to tar with close association with me, but like with Stephen Gutowski,
who knows guns really well, that certainly shows a different attempt to bring in people who understand this other part of the country that many people on air in news media and national news media just don't have contact with and they don't understand them.
And I think there were a lot of years lost not understanding those people to the detriment of people you're trying to inform about the news and then get getting really wrapped up too often in thinking those people are the enemy of America, right?
Look, there are some people out there who are bad, but not half the country is the enemy of America.
And so talking about them in that way too often can be really, really damaging.
And then one of the, like we talked about the media trust numbers, one of the reasons people don't trust media is because the media messes up and or lies to them a lot.
A lot.
And I think like being watching the Russia investigation and everyone just having a conclusion that they had figured out in their minds, and this is like the entire media with the exclusion of very few, they had a conclusion in their minds.
They were there before Mueller was.
They were there before the facts were.
And it turned out the facts like never really got to that conclusion.
And the attempt since then has been sort of to backfill the BS, right?
Like, well, let's just say that.
Yeah, I don't remember the mea culpa.
I do.
I don't remember one person on CNN owning, never mind MSNBC owning any piece of that.
We got it wrong and we misled you for years.
Yeah, it's and it's it's bad.
Like mea culpas are really powerful and really important and they can win back trust.
And you see this in studies too, of how people treat media, but you do have to say the thing.
And that was, you know, I've I've attempted to do this in my own career and I'm sure there's ones I've missed and my Twitter trolls will fact check me.
But, you know, in 2016, I thought it was important to go on the day after the election and say, look, I gave him a 30, 40%, the 2016 election.
I gave Trump a 30, 40% chance of winning, right?
But I didn't think he would pull it off.
And I thought it was important if I was going to suit up the next day to go on TV and say, I got it wrong.
I got it wrong.
And I want to be honest about that.
Here were my blind spots.
I thought Hillary Clinton had a ground game.
I was incorrect.
But being straight with people about those things is important.
And the media will tell you that they do that.
And it corrects you.
So why do you think they're not?
Like, why do you think CNN has never done that?
I think, because I think it's easier.
And honestly, Trump does this too, right?
Where it's like, if I just stick with this position and ride it out, then we'll move on and no one will notice that I was wrong.
But people do notice that you were wrong.
And you should like shamelessness is not, it should not be the name of the game.
And I just think you earn far more by saying, yeah, like this is, this is the thing I goofed up on.
I mean, the 2016 election and I think some of the Russia stuff afterwards, it's like, it wasn't.
We weren't just wrong.
It was like Oprah's favorite things of being wrong.
You're wrong and you're wrong.
You're wrong and you're wrong and you're wrong.
We were all wrong, right?
With a precious few exceptions, who, by the way, should be applauded for being right and often are not.
But I mean, it's because of ideological bias, right?
It's like they, they saw what they wanted to see.
They couldn't let go of it.
They had a pre-existing judgment about him that colored all of their reporting.
I just don't see how you recover from that.
And more importantly, from telegraphing to the audience that you hate them.
You know, how are you going to get back Republican viewers or even just right of center when they know you hate them?
The thing is, that brilliant sage, Geraldo Rivera, once told me, people don't watch because of the guests, with all due respect to the new hirings.
They watch because of the anchors.
They watch because of the hosts or they don't watch because of the hosts.
And they need to like the host or they're not going to watch.
That's the bottom line.
So there is no world in which people are going to tune in to anchors who said, I fucking hate you for four years and then say, oh, they have a guest I like.
So I'll listen.
Like it's, I just, it's not going to happen.
I mean, look, I don't think, I think some of that can be overcome.
But yes, it does have to have a, you have to have the moment where you say, this, I was wrong about this, right?
Or else there's no repairing everything.
That's one of the things with my, with my own personal situation, I was like, I know one thing about professional relationships or personal relationships, if you set the bar for what you will accept and not say anything about it there, and there is no maya culpa, then that's where the bar is for how you're treated.
And I think that's the audience media relationship sometimes too, right?
If you, you have to say that this is the thing I got wrong.
And too many people in media are not great at doing that.
And again, I'm not perfect.
I attempt to say when I goof up and I attempt to own up to it.
And sometimes my ideological assumptions lead me astray, but I got a lot more people testing my ideological assumptions than most people in media do.
That's right.
That's right.
I mean, it's, I don't know what your experience was like before, because I agree with you prior to, I would put it a little earlier though, before when Trump, when CNN turned, but 2015, certainly, I liked CNN a lot.
I watched, I watched it every night as I was getting ready for the Kelly file.
So I think they would have been nice to you then.
I wonder what it was like during the four years of the Trump administration.
You know, Megan McCain talks about how awful it was for her on the side of the view.
Maternity Leave and Courage 00:07:36
And that's no surprise.
You're not as contentious as she is.
You know, you, I just think you're just generally an agreeable person, even if you're fighting.
You know, you're just a likable person all around.
Anyway, what was it like for you during those four years of his presidency?
I mean, the first couple of years there were great.
And I, again, I don't mind being the only person who's saying something different.
Yeah.
And often it behooves me because I end up being the one who was on the right side of the issue.
So I don't, I don't mind being that person.
I enjoyed it.
I got a chance to do it.
I think it is a worthwhile project to speak to different audiences and to not only speak to people I agree with, although I do love speaking to people I agree with.
But I think it's worth doing that work.
And I think it was worthwhile for a couple of years there.
And then again, I think partly because I'm not so contentious, I sort of, I get a little lost in the mix.
And I think it was like during COVID, it was like, yeah, and I'm over here yelling like, I could tell you guys about Yonkin.
I can tell you what's coming.
But I'm not sure that was super welcomed.
That's an interesting thought, though.
It's like.
They got to the point where they didn't even want to hear it.
It was like, it's like, you know, because CNN used to have both sides on and you'd hear both things represented.
And MSNBC was not really that way.
But CNN has gotten more and more like MSNBC, including not as interested in voices like yours.
You know, that probably played into your secret suspension too.
It's like, well, we're not dying to hear those things said on our air anyway.
So enjoy the couch.
All right.
Now on to something more pleasant because you mentioned your maternity leave.
That was baby number three.
But you are expecting baby number four.
And I understand we've got a gender reveal to do.
You've got three girls and this one's a boy.
Who knew?
Yay.
Congrats.
I had my husband call the midwives to check on this when the reel happened to us.
And he told me and I said, that can't be right.
I don't.
I'm not capable.
I grew up with two brothers and I always just assumed this is where my loud mouth comes from and my tendency to speak up.
I had to fight for every scrap.
But I grew up with two brothers and I just assumed I would have boys, which is not how science works, by the way.
As I found out when I had three girls.
And so I just assumed this one would be a girl.
But no, it's a boy.
So here we go.
That's exciting.
Oh my God.
You're going to, you're going to so enjoy this experience.
And it is, I do think, dramatically different from raising girls in great ways.
You know, I just, I don't know.
I think boys are easier.
Am I wrong?
The audience will tell me if I'm wrong.
I think generally boys are a little easier.
Girls are awesome.
I love my girl, but yeah, that's a good thing.
The hard labor is definitely in that lane versus the boys.
Well, I know we've bonded over this since the first kid that I have shortly after, I think you're first or second.
And just like having someone who's in the professional world to chat with about this journey has always been nice.
And here I am.
Yeah, just diving off the cliff with the fourth kid.
And if there's any time to just detonate a bomb in your career, it's when you're pregnant with your fourth kid.
Yes.
Why not?
Well, but can I say, I mean, you would never say this, but it's just another reason why the CNN behavior is so douchey, which is everybody knows your personal story.
There's not a more sympathetic figure on the face of news today.
You know, for the audience members who may not be familiar, forgive me, MK, but MK was married to a lovely man who happened to be a Democrat, which is kind of a fun piece of their relationship and had a baby girl, was pregnant with their second, and then he died suddenly in a biking accident, just a freak biking accident while you were pregnant with your second.
I mean, it's just so heartbreaking.
Your best friend, Guy Benson, which our viewers may know him from Fox, was such a stoic and like what a rock he was during that whole thing.
He was like your number one protector and one of the many reasons we love Guy.
But you managed to get through and you managed to find love again.
That picture of the two of you when he proposed on Twitter against the backdrop, the beautiful bouts were backdrop.
Anyway, it's a great love story.
So it's so resilient and optimistic of you to try again.
And you had a child with your new husband.
This is your second pregnancy.
And CNN was like, this is so awesome.
Fuck off.
I mean, look.
Got the potty mouth going today, MK.
I'm sorry.
Go ahead.
Again, I mean, yeah, the maternity leave part of that was not my favorite part of the discussion because even in my female hormonal state postpartum, I can digest basic information without any trouble.
But yeah, I appreciate you saying all that.
It has been a wild ride for seven, seven years now.
And ever since then, one of the, one of the, I don't, I don't want to say there's like a silver lining to this great, to great tragedies, but you will be given tests in your life.
It's just, that's just the way the game is played, right?
And so my sort of public visibility and speaking about what happened to me has been therapeutic to me.
And it turns out leads people to me when they're in a similar situation.
I think if you Google Pregnant Widow, I'm like one of the top.
It's an inauspicious honor, but people can find me and I can speak about sort of going through the fire and coming out the other side.
And that has proven beneficial to other people who are in the same spot.
And I'm so thankful for that part of it.
In addition to my faith and my sense of humor helping me and my children, helping me to sort of just soldier through that single mom life and to get to where I was and to be able to meet somebody who's a great dad to the kids and now a new brother and sister.
Think about that.
Can we just pause?
Just pause for a second, the fact that CNN, when faced with a choice between this person and Toobin and this benign comment about, hey, yo, you didn't say anything about him.
That's all you said, decided to punish you.
I mean, that it's so telling about the character of the management that ruined CNN, that ruined it.
And whether it can be resurrected from the ashes remains to be seen, but it certainly is going to have farther to go without MK Ham on staff.
If they're smart, they'll reverse themselves immediately, come finally with the flowers on the bended knee.
It's already public, CNN.
We know you did it.
We realize it was old management.
So just own it.
Try to make it right and prove to the world that you will treat the person we know best as CNN's Republican voice with the respect and the kindness she deserves.
All right.
The next time, because I'm sure you're going to be unemployed soon from CNN.
The next time we're going to get into the news, MK, because that's what you're best at.
Disney Characters and Makeup Gaffes 00:04:11
And it's awesome.
Love it.
Thank you for coming on.
Thank you so much for having me and for your kind words.
Of course.
And thanks for your courage in telling the story.
I think this is another instance in which you probably helped a lot of people who will wind up coming to you as well.
Thank you, my friend, to be continuing.
Thank you.
All right.
Up next, comedian John Christ is here.
He's hilarious with an amazing backstory.
Wait until you meet him.
A Netflix special, a book deal, a live tour were all in the works when comedian John Christ's double life caught up with him.
It was crushing at the time, but John claims it actually was also a relief.
More on that in just a bit.
John is back now and on fire with a very funny and candid book called Delete That and other failed attempts to look good online.
You probably know him from one of his viral videos like this one, every parent at Disney World can relate to.
We made it to the happiest place on earth.
It's 9 a.m.
I got to schedule every minute of our day until 9 p.m.
Pay attention and stay close.
I just flew my family halfway across America to visit Disney and all my homeschool kids want to do is visit the Hall of Presidents.
We need a map.
$45 for bedazzled mouse ears, baby.
You want these or you want to go to college?
Absolutely not.
Absolutely not.
It's 9.30 in the morning.
It's too early to get wet.
We're not waiting an hour and a half for impressions of France, okay?
Eat a baguette and lose a world war.
That's my impression of France.
Let's go to Space Mountain.
No, I'm not going to push him in a stroller.
Okay.
He's four.
No, that's not right.
The Splash Mountain is this way.
No, you cannot have goofy shaped chicken nuggets.
Sit down.
Your mother brought ham sandwiches.
Oh, for heaven's sakes, pick up your garbage and throw it away.
This isn't six flags.
Listen, Rebecca, she's not coming out today, okay?
That dream to meet Elsa, you better let it go.
Let it go.
John, thank you so much for being here.
Great to have you.
There we go.
Always one of my favorites, that video.
I don't watch my videos myself too much, but that one's funny.
Oh my God, we really can all relate the Disney experience, the goofy-shaped chicken nugget, all of it, the stroller, right?
It's like, do I get the stroller?
I don't want to have to navigate with that thing.
All of it.
Oh, yeah.
It's a nightmare.
And then you don't know where the map is.
You don't know the lines are always a nightmare.
But I would say, when does a kid, when does a kid expire at Disney?
You say about one or two, maybe?
You mean like, when is Disney no longer interesting to them?
Is that what you mean?
No, when does the kid start turning like, you know, I go over to, I don't have any kids, but I go to my friends' houses.
Yeah, and they're like, you know, you leave your friend's house when the kid's about to have a meltdown.
Like the parents kind of know.
They go, hey, it's kind of coming to an end.
That's true.
I have to say, I was, I think, pretty smart.
I never took them to Disney when they were really little.
So I kind of avoided that.
And I don't know, it's like so fun that generally they stay pretty well behaved, but those lines are just absurd.
I mean, like that, when it was Disney that we discovered the game that some other parents taught us in line, which is the, you have to go around the circle and it's like, I went on a picnic and I got and I brought an apple.
I wanted a picnic and I got an apple and a banana.
I wanted a picnic and I got an apple, a banana and a carrot.
But then you, you know, everybody in line has to remember every single, right?
So you get down to the end of the alphabet and then you start all over with a new thing.
It could be cities.
It could be vegetable.
I don't want to play that game ever again.
Nah, I should have, if I do a part two, I'll add that to it.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, yeah, I have to say, you can also get the VIP guide, which costs like a mortgage.
You really just have to take a second mortgage.
That makes life a lot easier.
That place is expensive for sure.
I still, I just came off, I'm in Virginia Beach now.
I came off Fox and Friends this morning.
So I still have the TV makeup on.
Oh, nice.
You look good.
Did you notice the difference when you see yourself in the camera?
Yes.
I mean, you, probably someone that doesn't know me personally wouldn't, but I'm looking at myself in this reflection.
I'm like, oh man, I look like a Disney character.
You're like, I'm a handsome man.
I laugh at the guys who are always like, especially on TV, like, oh, I'm not putting on makeup.
I'm not putting on makeup.
Finding Alignment After Cancellation 00:08:50
I'm like, okay.
And then you pop them up there next to you, okay?
Because the anchor always had an anchor and the other guest who said that he would get it.
And they look like something out of the walking dead.
You just look so pasty.
I told, I said, whenever I put makeup on, I go, oh, man, I go, this is unbelievable.
I'm going to wear, how long can I wear this?
I've been wearing it.
I'll wear it for three days.
Don't even get me started.
We need our men to stay men and not be wearing makeup when they're not on TV.
So just stop it.
Don't even think about it.
All right.
So you grow up the son of a preacher man and you were homeschooled and you were a good boy who always watched his posture.
And, you know, we're eight kids, I think, in the family.
Eight, one of eight kids.
Yep.
I'm the one of the close to the oldest.
I'm the third.
Okay.
And you had the pizzazz.
You had like this sense of, like, they could tell there was something special about you to the point where your dad was like, hey, you know, are you into the family business?
He thought maybe you would want to take over as preacher.
And you, did you know?
Like, oh no.
Yeah, it's kind of, yeah, I knew it wasn't for me, you know, but I think my dad has told me in politics.
He's, he, uh, he's a pastor and now he's a politician in Georgia running for a house seat in two weeks.
And he said, a comedian and a politician in a lot of ways are doing the same thing because they see the world and they don't like it.
They don't like the way it's headed.
They don't like the direction of it.
And they would, they're trying to change it.
And he said, I try to do it through laws and legislation and you're just trying to do it through thoughts and ideas, but it's the same thing.
It's really true.
And you know what?
The best politicians have a good sense of humor that they can use at the right time.
That's half of Trump's charm.
He's funny.
Yeah.
That's it.
Yeah, that's very funny.
That's what that's, remember, everyone said that about Bush.
Remember, they go, ah, he's like, he's like a guy that I'd like to have a beer with or he'd like to, he's like a guy I'd like to hang out with.
The right, we, every comedian will say this, and not to get too like divisive, but the right is great about like laughing at themselves.
Like we go to like a NASCAR race and a guy's wearing a, you know, a sleeveless cutoff and some and some jean shorts and some cowboy boots and you like make fun of it, but you're like, yeah, it's a joke, but we're all kind of here.
We're all kind of joking.
Everything's kind of fun.
And we can even joke about ourselves, which you don't see too much from the left.
I'll just leave it like that.
The left does not mock itself.
They only try to ruin others.
That's it.
They don't even mock others.
They just try to ruin them.
Yeah, they just, they just, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, it's upsetting.
And I know you've been, as I said in the intro, the target of it.
You know, you, I don't know if you would call yourself the victim of it because you kind of own, you know, your own foibles.
But can I just say like from my standpoint, I'm still struggling to understand exactly what you were doing that was cancelable.
Like I recognize you were behaving like a young man who's, you know, succeeding and becoming famous and maybe not like treating women perfectly.
I get all that.
But like, how does it make you different from any other young man in that situation?
Well, I think, yeah, I would definitely not call myself a victim.
I think if everybody's responsible for their own actions and their own choices.
So if that, that all, all this, all this stuff, and you kind of know it yourself, this stuff kind of comes with being a public figure.
And as soon as what's odd is as soon as I got canceled, every everybody that I knew that was a celebrity or public figure in some ways texted me like, hey, welcome, kind of welcome to show business in a lot of ways, which is you're like, oh, this is just kind of a part of it.
But I think when you, when you first, you would say the same thing.
Like the first time anyone said anything negative about you, Megan, on Twitter, the very, very first time, it was so striking and so scary.
It was so scary.
But now, I mean, now it kind of just falls off your back and you go, this is kind of a part of the business.
And everybody has their own opinion of you and they're also more than welcome to.
Yeah, that's right.
So, so you, as I understand it, the takedown on you was related to the fact that you were publicly, you know, or outwardly this Christian guy and they didn't think you were living a Christian lifestyle.
You were, you were DMing or texting with women you wanted to have affairs with who were married, things like that, where they were like hypocritical, like two-faced.
But you also kind of hit your own low.
The thing about your, you know, your car and sending the tech, like that was dark.
So did all that happen at the same time?
Yeah.
I should tell the audience what I'm talking about.
You had a terrible, terrible car accident where you were injected and you were in the hospital.
And it was a, I would say it was kind of a three, four year downward spiral that things got, you know, kind of worse and worse as you go.
You have all these kind of insecurities that I grew up with.
And then you kind of become successful and you become, you have, and you go out on the road.
And it's like, this is not a place for someone that's not in a good mental place.
And I was obviously drinking a lot and in a position where I should never have been out traveling.
And I just had a lot of demons that I was dealing with myself.
And I think anyone will tell you the story.
Like everyone who has read anything about my story says the same thing you do.
And not to let myself off the hook.
I'm here to look everybody in the eye and take responsibility for all of my actions.
Of course, they're all my choosing.
But everybody goes, this sounds like something that every guy in their 30s would do.
Yeah.
This is like a normal.
And it's, and I'm not like, what'd you say?
I keep looking for the horrible, like, I get it's not the most perfectly moral behavior, but I mean, to lose your career and then you went away to like a rehab.
But that was that, what was that?
Was that tech addiction?
What was that?
It was, it was, it's kind of, I came off the road because it's so like, you understand, like in the faith, in the faith culture, in the faith community.
And, and, and back in the Me Too movement in 2000, like 19, it was so, everyone was so scared.
It's very cooky.
Yeah.
Like now, I think if any, if these people would say something about me now, I'd just be like, okay, and I, I got a show tonight that's sold out.
I wouldn't pay much mind to.
But back at the time, people understand like in 2019, it was so scary.
But my shows are full now and they're sold out.
We sell more tickets now than we did before.
So same way you, you, you would read the, read an article about me, like you're waiting for kind of the ball to drop.
You're waiting for something horrific.
And you go, yes.
Oh, so there's some people that were just that didn't like him.
Okay.
But I wouldn't wish cancellation on my worst enemy.
I don't know.
Some upsides to it.
It is very painful.
I can relate, trust me.
Horrible.
There's some upsides to it.
So you definitely.
Yeah.
I wouldn't, I don't like, I don't like to often probably say this publicly because I don't like to encourage, you know, cancel culture or people being outraged at people, but it did, in a lot of ways, it did save my life.
I've been sober since that day.
And I'm a different person than I was then.
And that was just, I was just going down a terrible road.
So you don't want to say that like, you know, God interjected or I don't want to get too spiritual about it, but it is, I don't, I did save my life.
Yes.
I know what you mean.
Honestly, like I, I was canceled and I almost feel like it was a moment in which, you know, you know, when you're like, you're making the bed and you, you have the fresh blanket and you shake it and it snaps.
Yep.
It was kind of like that, right?
Like it shakes you and like things snap.
And now you have a nice, fresh, clean slate blanket.
And you're almost like, I don't know.
I feel like reading your story, I feel like the same for me happened where you kind of become more aligned with who you really are, what you were really meant to be doing.
You know, my cancellation came after I was doing something that really wasn't well aligned with who I was.
That's the best way.
I think that's the best way to put it.
Right?
Like yours did too.
You felt more free when you post cancellation and post-rehab.
You came out and you were like, screw it.
What do I have to lose now?
Fresh Slates and True Selves 00:02:33
Yeah.
And that, and that, that is honestly, it's just like, yeah, you would say the same thing.
It was just what you were kind of living a life that wasn't really aligned with who you were as a person.
And then you, you, when everything, it's so wild.
It's like looking out over a city that is burnt to the ground.
And you're just like, well, nothing, what, what matters now.
Like you can kind of in my comedy, I mean, anyone that's seen my stand-up show pre-cancellation and post, they'll be like, it's a hundred times better because now you can say that you're not, I'm not in, I think you're the same, Megan, that you're not in any kind of fear.
I have no, and I tell a lot of people that are scared.
They're still kind of, you probably know them.
They still kind of live over there a little bit.
And you just go, yo, come over here.
It's, it's way better.
It's so nice.
All right.
So one of your first forays out into I don't care anymore land.
Yeah.
Was that the things that need to be canceled bit?
That was it, right?
Where you were like, just went through the grocery store and just decided to do a riff on like things that need to be canceled.
Let's show the audience just a little bit of that.
This is Sod 11.
We got rid of Aunt Jemima.
We got rid of Uncle Ben's, but I am wildly triggered by the brands and the photos that I see in this grocery store.
Using a polar bear to sell your ice cream Klondike?
You know, polar bears were extinct.
No, thank you.
Canceled.
Paw Patrol, mac and cheese.
Listen, defund the police, defund Paw Patrol.
V8.
You know what kind of emissions an engine like that puts out into the environment?
I drive a Prius and that is canceled.
Okay, I don't exactly know who this guy is, but I don't like his look at anything that this guy stands for.
Canceled.
White rice, brown rice.
Why do they got to be separated?
Think about it.
Cancel.
Quaker Oats guy.
I don't like to look at him.
He's canceled.
Well, I think what's funny about that is what comedy and satire does so well.
Instead of kind of like, you know, sometimes maybe getting angry at the left or maybe, you know, fighting back with them, you're like, hey, okay, let's just go with this idea of, because Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben's really were canceled.
I'm like, all right, well, okay, so let me not fight with you.
We'll just go there.
Humor in Church and Satire 00:09:34
We'll just go down that road and I'm going to show you what that turns into.
And that's often a very, very successful way of to improve social commentary.
It's funny because I was just yesterday was talking about Jack O'Willenck, you know, this just like great, amazing diehard vet.
And he's all about extreme accountability and you just, you don't blame others for anything.
It's all about you and what you do.
And I asked him once about these annoying woke people and he was kind of saying even complaining about them is part of the problem.
He's like, just be great, like be strong, be the best you can be and don't spend time thinking about them.
Now, in my business, that's not really an option.
You know, you, I just think they have to be fought and I'm just the right person to do it.
But you have a different approach.
You're kind of like, well, mock them, you know, like show them through comedy how absurd they are.
If not them, then everybody else.
So it's interesting.
I'm kind of just putting it together, how everybody, depending on their skill set, fights them in their own different way.
Yeah, it's like kind of, I guess it'd be kind of like, you know, if we're, you know, fighting a war, there's the, you know, there's the gunner.
There's a guy up on the hill with the bow and arrow.
There's the guys that are actually running down to fight.
And then there's the guys in the airplanes.
Like we're all kind of strategically coming at it together.
I think a lot of things that the left will do, we describe it in the comments just to get to get attention.
My dream is for one day, some celebrity to come out as transgender and then nobody covers it, like they go, i'm just announcing i'm transgender.
Um, i'm already ready for the protest, i'm already ready for the hate and everybody just goes all right like no one says a word, like it's not a thing, and then it'll be like oh, a lot of this was just for the motivation of getting attention.
And then it just like like they throw out there's 37 genders and then we go.
You know what i'm saying?
We, we all kind of get into it together.
Same thing you do with your, with your kids, when your kids are being really naughty.
You know, the greatest thing is just ignore them.
Just ignore them don't, don't give it any attention at all, because my mom, my mom, always says the good me is the best way they want to get attention, but they'll take it second of all from the bad me.
But the worst thing you can do to a kid is the not me.
Right, like I didn't see it.
It's not happening.
You're not getting any reaction out of me.
I've tried that with my Strudwick, my dog, and let me tell you there's no version that works.
Um all, right now I have a question for you about religion and comedy, because I know you.
The first time you tried stand up it was, I think, in a church.
You were doing some stand up, like at night.
It wasn't like during the, the service, but it was like uh, like at night you were meant to be doing comedy and people laughed and laughed and laughed and then the first time you kind of went out of that venue.
Maybe it wasn't considered so funny.
So now well yeah, that was, I would say maybe you're performing at a church or something like that.
I used to.
You know, work at a church in Colorado and it's kind of a.
You know, if you go, if you do a live show somewhere, all the people that show up are your friends.
They know you Megan, they already love you.
So when you go out on stage you just like make an appearance, you go hi and it's it's a very warm audience.
Versus if you just went into an open, you put your hair back and then put a hat on and went into an open mic, it would be you didn't have the padded stats, maybe is the best way to put it.
So I right so that.
So you tried, you went out and you used your same material and not as great.
So now, now the like, the post cancellation.
I'm just going to be me, you does it.
Um, do you still like use humor about your upbringing and the Catholic church or the Christian?
You know religion absolutely, you do.
Okay, I mean, I even use I, i've even used humor in a way uh, about my own cancellation.
I mean, that's the only, that's the, and everybody else.
By the way, if you come to the show uh, those are the jokes people laugh at the hardest.
So, like what tell me?
Like, let's give me an example.
I mean I, I do joke about uh, cancellation.
I go, I go uh, I say something that's maybe like uh, some people would say it'd be across the line or something.
I go listen, I go, being canceled is like getting covet, like you're scared, you're really, really scared of it.
Then you get it and it's a week of symptoms.
You go, it's not that bad and you're back on the road.
I go.
I said I The canceled antibodies now.
I can say whatever I want.
Yes, I recommend those highly.
No, I understand antibodies.
Yeah.
What is your, you're not Catholic?
What are, what is your religion?
I'm not Catholic.
I'm, I'm, I'm an evangelical Christian.
I would say I grew up in a denomination that's nearest to uh Pentecostal.
But okay, they would say, you would say in any kind of any kind of joke.
Like when I first started making jokes, I was, I was kind of joking around about Christian culture.
I remember in a video specifically about Christian music, and this is before I was popular, no one knew who I was.
And everyone in the comments, this is going to make sense to you when I say it.
Everyone in the comments goes, is this guy a Christian or not?
Because if he is a Christian, this video kind of mocking the subculture of Christianity.
If he is a Christian, this is hilarious.
Now, if he is not, if this guy's not a Christian, is wildly, wildly offensive.
And I think the same thing.
You're like, oh, no, it's like whether whatever subculture you're a part of, you're like, oh, no.
Like people can make fun of your family or your parents if they are in your family.
And they like, we love this family.
These are our people.
But if you're outside of the family and they make fun of someone in your family, you know, it's time to fight, you know?
No, they're not, then it's like, I'll cut a bitch.
Okay, so here's a little bit of you talking about something near and dear to my own heart, which is communion in church.
It's 7 by 12.
Remember back in the day, church, you grew up in church, sir?
Remember back in the day, communion was big, a chunk of bread.
You used to have to chew.
Remember that?
He's like, You want to go to lunch?
No, I'm good.
We're just not communion.
I'm straight.
Then it turned into a cracker.
It's a cracker.
Now it's a cracker.
It's a cracker.
Then it turned into a wafer.
We didn't vote on it or nothing.
Just a wafer now.
It's a wafer.
I would not be surprised if soon the pastor was like, hey, we're just going to put a piece of bread up on the screen.
Okay.
Just look at it and take a deep breath.
I don't know.
If you're allergic, there's a safe space in section four.
Figure that out.
So true.
Oh my God.
My little Thatcher.
My little guy.
First, I told the audience, he complained one time.
He thought the communion wafer should have a little sea salt on it.
He's just had his first commandment in May.
And now his most recent complaint, he doesn't like cheese.
His most recent complaint is he thinks the communion wafer in our church tastes like cheese.
It's like, it tastes like cheese again.
It tastes like cheese.
That's not, that's that.
They might have left him out for too long if it tastes like cheese.
Right?
I don't know.
Like, what, what could be going wrong with our communion wafer?
Or maybe I don't want to know.
But if you, yeah, I think people, if you're, if you're, this, this is, I think that video is a perfect example.
It's like, oh, this guy like goes to church.
This, this is an experience.
This is a first-hand experience because there's a lot of obviously pointing fingers at the other side and saying they are, they are weird.
They are uncomfortable.
But I'm saying we are, I love Jesus, but we do some weird stuff.
And that's, that's the point of all the comedy.
And by the way, everyone in America is going to get on board with that.
Everybody.
Yeah.
I mean, the generally, in general, going to church is fertile ground for funny things.
I mean, there's just like, there's just such an unspoken set of rules that you have.
Like I had a situation the other day where I was going to church and, you know, we're going there to worship, right?
We're going to praise God and Jesus and all sing and kneel and all of it.
And I got confused because I thought this person, they had their turn signal on.
And I thought they were going to turn in the very next road before they got to me.
Yep.
And so I went forward.
I thought they were going to be gone.
Anyway, the long and short of it is, I misjudged where they were going to turn.
So they were right in front of me and I cut them off.
It was bad.
And it was my fault, but I had a genuine misunderstanding about what they were trying to communicate.
So it was like my fault, but I wasn't actually being a bad person.
But the person was so mad, flipped me off.
It was clearly mad at me.
And I was like, oh, you know, I kind of tried to say, like, sorry, but they'd already gone.
And we both wound up going to the same church, getting out of the cars right next to each other at the same time.
It was like, oh my God, this is horrible.
Which is it's funny.
That is a funny, like, whenever there's a situation where you know somebody has to be overly pious or overly put together, overly PC, the humanity of a human being comes out.
And that's, that's always the juxtaposition for humor.
Like, if you would leave church, like we always had a joke, when you go to, when you drive to church, you got to put on, you know, the Christian music.
Christian Music and Responsibility 00:03:57
You know, I'm saying, you got to put on some uplifting, family-friendly music.
But as soon as you leave church and you walk out in a parking lot and you untuck your shirt, you know, you can put on some Eminem, some Dr. Dre, some Drake, whatever you want.
I don't know why that's a rule that we always had, but me and my brothers growing up in church, we always did that.
Going to church, straight and narrow.
But on the way, once you're, you know, do whatever you want.
Put your freak on.
Well, I was thinking, I was kind of hoping that day that like during the peace sign, you know, this person and I could like patch it up, but it didn't happen.
But there's some grits for the mill for your next church special.
Now, you've also been open about your concerns about young people today.
I won't set it up more than that.
Here's Soundbite 13.
If we had to have a draft with this group of 18 to 25-year-olds we got running around this country, just a bunch of life coaches and bloggers will help.
I don't want to get my shoes dirty.
You ever been shot?
No, I've been triggered.
Okay.
So good and so true.
So true.
Where you go, yeah, like we cannot go to war.
We cannot go to war.
Because if we, if we had to have a draft, what would be like people would be giving away the locations of the army.
They're like, they're on Apple.
They checked in and go, oh, dude, like, it would be.
I just, I don't see, I don't see it happening.
No, let's hope you, let's hope you're right that one's not coming.
I don't know.
When you look at that group, though, right?
Like, there's so much, there's so much material for you there, like what people are doing today and how sad they all are and how they're all victims all the time.
That must be so rich for you.
Oh, well, we, I mean, that's the victim mentality is there's nothing more crippling, honestly, to society.
And again, instead of being like, that's the same type of bit there.
We go, hey, if you, if you're gonna, let me, let me walk this out.
Let me show you what that future is.
If everybody, oh, I've been triggered.
Like, what, like, that's let me walk, let me press.
And that's what you're seeing now.
With like, I make a joke in my show.
I go, 15 years ago, we stopped spanking kids.
Like, there was no discipline for kids, and no one was getting beat up at school anymore.
And now you got a bunch of people in their 30s who are taking mental health days and can't pay back their student loans.
Like, this, that's the like we, I mean, we were just raised differently, not to be, there's always that comic, like when I was a kid, not to be that comic, but like you took responsibility for your actions.
Lucy Kay has a great bit about when you got when you ran out of money, you were like, I guess we just can't do any more stuff now.
Like that's right, it's true.
No, there was order.
There's there was absolute order.
You knew where the lines were and what would happen to you if you crossed them.
And people got fired.
I talk about him in my book, like, you know, getting fired from jobs, getting trying out for the for the basketball team at high school and getting cut, like going up to the wall, looking for my name and not seeing it there.
I'm like asking a girl to prom, like looking her in the eye and go, do you want to go to prom with me?
And someone's saying no.
Like all three of those are like tough for a kid to go through, but all made me better.
Like no one's looking at someone else and asking them out on a date anymore.
No one's getting cut from the team.
If the class is too hard, you just get the professor fired.
Special Forces and New Movies 00:02:59
Like it's a different, it's a, it's a different world ripe for comedy for sure.
Yeah.
Oh, well, thank God we have comedians like you to take us there and help us laugh about the things that make us insane.
You know, I'm always talking to my hairstylist, Sarah.
She's always like, I can't, I can't look at this.
I can't, I get too angry.
You know, she gets so mad about these stories.
And I'm more like very much inclined to laugh about them.
I mean, I'll, I'll fight the battles too, but guys like you who have that genius way of framing it just right?
Yeah.
You're, you're so important to that process.
John, thank you so much for coming on.
Let's do a longer interview because I want to hear more about your background.
And I want to tell the audience that you can find John's videos.
You can find his book.
You can find his tour info all at JohnChrist, which is C-R-I-S-T, John C-R-I-S-T comedy.com.
JohnChristComedy.com.
Thanks for coming on.
Love it.
I'll come back anytime, Megan.
That was a blast.
Cool.
All right, couple of things I want to tell you.
First of all, next week we've got Senator Ted Cruz on Monday.
He's got a new book.
And then on Tuesday, the return of Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Very excited to welcome him back to the show.
We're going to get into all of it.
He's got a new movie out on Fauci, vaccines, censorship.
We talk about all of it.
And then, then there was this amazing moment where he revealed that his son Connor, unbeknownst to him, had just gotten back from fighting in Ukraine.
Here's a preview.
When we went in, he felt that he shouldn't be arguing about it unless he was willing to in favor of war, unless he was willing to have skin in the game and take his own risks.
And so he went to the Ukrainian embassy and he signed up for the Foreign Legion and he's been fighting over in the Ukraine for the last couple of months.
Oh, wow.
He's part of a, he was part of a special forces unit.
And he saw he didn't have any military experience and he kind of talked his way into the unit.
It's unbelievable.
The story was so good.
You know, Bobby's sensitivities are more, let's not get involved.
And his son felt very differently.
And him explaining, you know, how he reconciled that and what how his son felt and how he found out that he was doing, it's great, great stuff.
You'll love the whole thing.
So don't forget, download the show in the meantime so that you won't miss a moment of it.
Apple, Pandora, Spotify, and Stitcher.
Also, youtube.com slash MeganKelly.
If you want to send me an email and get my weekly email that I send out, there's a great one coming today.
Please trust me, do it.
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Type in your email there.
You'll get today's email and you will see the absolute nonsense that my sweet, naughty little Strudwick put me through.
Plus an update on all the week's news in 60 seconds or less.
Have a great weekend and thanks for listening.
Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show.
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