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Jan. 6, 2021 - The Megyn Kelly Show
01:11:07
20210106_georgia-goes-blue-with-hugh-hewitt-and-dave-briggs
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Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.
Today on the show, Georgia goes blue.
What?
What does this mean for America?
And what happens today when Congress meets to certify the 2020 presidential election?
We'll have Dave Briggs, my old pal from Fox, and Hugh Hewitt on the program.
Hey everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly.
Welcome to The Megyn Kelly Show.
Today, disaster for the Republicans in Georgia.
It certainly looks like they have lost not one, but both of the Senate seat runoffs that we were watching in that state.
And who have they elected to the United States Senate?
Well, in one case, absolutely a radical on the left.
And in another, you know, pretty open socialist.
So what does that mean for the U.S. Senate and where we're going as a country?
We're going to get into all of it in just one minute.
And what does it mean for Joe Biden's agenda on immigration, on the environment, on taxes, on health care?
Republicans aren't going to like what they're going to get.
Not at all.
Was that the point?
Were the Trump base members trying to send a message to the GOP that you don't listen to us?
The whole ship goes down.
And, you know, then the cleanup begins.
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Voter Turnout And Party Rules 00:15:30
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Joining me now to kick things off today is my old pal, Dave Briggs.
We worked together for years at Fox News.
He was also at NBC Sports and CNN, but Fox News was his best stint.
And he's going to help us understand what happened in Georgia last night.
Dave, it's so good to have you here.
Great to be here.
It was indeed my best stint.
I'd agree with you there, Megan.
Great to have you.
Of course.
Great job with the podcast.
We don't want to work at NBC and we don't want to work at CNN.
So now it's nice to be on our own too, but the Fox News years were good ones.
Okay.
Georgia, I have to tell you, so I was frustrated last night because our cable wasn't working.
And so I'm trying to get everything online and my team's sending me information and I'm.
I'm seeing the results come in.
I wasn't totally stunned about Kelly Loeffler, but I am stunned that Asaf appears to have pulled this out, given how handily he was beaten back in November.
I don't know.
You tell me, where do things stand today?
Are both seats officially gone?
Well, frankly, I wasn't stunned either about Kelly Loeffler, having not been born in Georgia, perception that she bought the seat, also running against a very popular.
Baptist pastor of the church where MLK, Martin Luther King was once the pastor, Ebenezer Baptist.
So a lot of factors going against Kelly Leffler.
I certainly thought David Perdue would hang on, the cousin of former Georgia governor, a very popular U.S. Senator.
But for one, Raphael Warnock, we know that is over.
Kelly Leffler has conceded there.
Warnock is the winner by, it looks like 53,000 votes.
So a pretty convincing margin there.
John Ossoff, Also, it looks likely to cruise to victory.
16,000 votes is the margin this morning.
The largely outstanding votes look like they lean Democratic.
So it would be a last second miracle to see John Asaf lose, to see David Perdue still win.
It looks like that thing is over.
And Asaf, by the way, has claimed victory.
So it looks like you'll have your first Black Georgia senator and your first Jewish Georgia senator as well.
But most importantly, 50 50 in the U.S. Senate with Kamala Harris, the vice president, providing that tie breaking vote.
So, this is a stunner that both seats go blue.
But look, a lot of people in Georgia.
Georgia.
Georgia.
We thought maybe it was going purple.
It looks blue today.
Yeah.
You know, and talking with some friends down in Georgia this morning, as well as some Republicans across the country, a lot of blame being cast at the feet of President Trump.
Voter suppression has long been a story there in the state of Georgia.
You heard about it with the governor's race with Governor Kemp, but this time it's President Trump who looks to have suppressed the Republican vote.
Eric Erickson, who you know, a good friend of ours, hosts a radio show in Georgia.
I talked to him earlier this morning.
He says, Don't give too much credit to Stacey Abrams this morning.
First, you need to blame President Trump.
He spent the last five weeks.
Talking about voting irregularities, voter fraud.
He called the Georgia elections illegitimate and illegal.
They wasted five weeks of potential messaging.
The president could have claimed his own victory for driving out 74 million votes, a record for the Republican Party.
He said that he grew the tent and focused on divided government in blocking that Schumer Pelosi agenda.
He didn't do it.
I don't know, though.
Let me challenge you on that.
First of all, number one, I don't think Kelly Loeffler has conceded yet.
She's still not conceding, though it appears her goose is cooked.
But second of all, so Trump was divided from the lawyers like Lynn Wood, who, you know, at that one rally was like, don't vote.
Screw this party.
Screw everything.
Georgia's effed up.
Don't go out there.
And the White House was pretty quick to say, he doesn't speak for us.
And by the way, he's a lifetime Democratic voter.
The White House came out and said it, the campaign.
And then Trump went down there and campaigned repeatedly for the two Republicans.
So I realize Trump's been challenging the electoral results, but to say he was out there suppressing voter turnout, I think he would disagree.
Well, an Atlanta Journal Constitution poll just over a week ago.
Showed that 55% of those who label themselves very conservative were considering not voting in this runoff election because they believe the elections to be illegitimate and fraudulent.
Where did they get that accusation?
From the Twitter feed and from the mouth of the president.
I don't know how you can challenge the fact that the president, the first thing he said at that rally Monday night in Georgia was talking about.
The fraudulent elections.
It was fascinating.
That's true.
I mean, so that's the thing is that, first of all, he introduced Kelly Luffler.
He called her Karen, which that's not good.
But there's no question he should have spent more time talking, maybe not about Luffler and Purdue, who weren't exactly inspirational candidates, but talking about their opponents, talking about their opponents, how far left they are, the controversial things that Warnock has said about America, about the military, about cops, about About whites, how this is a white supremacist country.
Like, no time spent on that.
It was all spent on grievance, which is sort of Trump's trademark, you know?
And he absolutely could have been more helpful to these Republicans if he'd been focused a bit more on the flaws in their Democratic challengers in a state like Georgia.
But wait, let me ask you this, Dave.
I read that GOP turnout was actually strong, it was strong in Georgia, it just happened to not be quite as strong as the Democrats.
Right.
The turnout was outstanding.
And in fact, Cherokee County, the largely Republican county there, at last check, it looked like they might outperform the November election, which is staggering.
But as we saw in the presidential election, right?
Joe Biden got 81 million votes, 74 million for Trump was a record.
But he's even bigger than he is a Republican turnout artist.
He turns out Democratic votes like nothing we have.
Ever seen before, in particular the African American turnout.
Raphael Warnock outperformed the Black turnout that Joe Biden saw in November.
And look, a lot of this credit does go to Stacey Abrams.
She has built a machine there, voter registration and voter turnout.
But in the end, I think Republicans will sit there and have to scratch their heads and wonder what would have happened if President Trump would have taken this five weeks to simply focus on yes to your.
Point about the radical beliefs and policies of these two candidates, but also just providing a check on Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi and the radical agenda that they want to get through.
He did not do that.
It was not about policy.
It was not about party for the president.
It was about grievances.
It was about loyalty.
And that's what it always has been about not about party for Trump, but about Trumpism.
Yeah.
I know.
And sometimes it's worked for him and sometimes it hasn't.
And sometimes it's worked for America.
And sometimes it hasn't.
And I mean, I'm a big fan of divided government just in general.
And I don't like one party rule.
And I think most Americans don't like one party rule.
And I think we'll have one party rule until two years from now, and it's going to flip back.
And by the way, this Warnock seat is only a two year seat.
The only person who won a six year seat, as it appears now, at least, is Asaf, right?
Because it was sort of a temporarily held seat.
So in two years, this one seat could flip back.
And while we don't have divided government the way you and I would like to see it, and I know a lot of your listeners, what we do have is truly a divided Senate.
Because even if this seat goes to Ossoff, which it looks like it will, we're still looking at 50 50 with Kamala Harris.
Providing that tie breaking vote, but they can't cram through massive legislation unless they get rid of the filibuster, which I, for one, will go on record as saying I do not think that will happen.
They need every vote on the Democratic side.
And I just don't think Joe Manchin, maybe two or three others would go along with that ploy.
So, what are they going to get through?
They're going to get through their judges.
They're going to get through their cabinet.
They're going to get through maybe some tweaks to strengthen Obamacare.
Certainly, those $2,000 stimulus checks for COVID relief, which Again, oddly, the president introduced that debate and forced Leffler and Purdue to support those $2,000 checks.
He forced that as an issue.
But a lot of people panicked about taxes going up and massive pieces of legislation on the environment.
That doesn't look likely, again, unless they get rid of the filibuster.
And I don't know about you, Megan.
I don't see that happening.
I think they are going to roll back the Trump tax cuts.
And I think we're looking at amnesty for 11 million.
Undocumented immigrants in this country.
I do.
I don't think those are unrealistic things to expect under a united Democratic government with Joe Biden at the head.
And I think the squad just got a lot more powerful last night.
You listen to these two senators in Georgia, they sound like the squad.
They don't sound like Joe Biden Democrats.
And now there's nothing to stop him.
There's no reason for it.
Joe Biden has no one to blame for moderating anything.
He can't say, look, I've got to work with the Republican Senate.
Now it's Dems in control or so.
I got to ask you another question because there's another big story happening today, and that is Congress is going to meet to confirm Joe Biden as president elect.
So, walk us through that process and what's expected to happen this afternoon.
This is a sad day in American history that we're about to see on the Senate floor.
It's supposed to be a mere formality.
Mike Pence's role is supposed to be largely ceremonial, but the president has forced him into a very Uncomfortable position where you have Republicans in both the House and the Senate objecting to the Electoral College and attempting to overturn the November results.
This, again, is a mere formality in U.S. history where we simply count the votes and read them aloud.
But President Trump tweeting this morning, a short time ago, states want to correct their votes, which they now know were based on irregularities and fraud, plus corrupt process never received legislative approval.
And here's the kicker.
All Mike Pence has to do is send them back to the states and we win.
Do it, Mike.
This is a time for extreme courage.
It is not, of course.
The Vice President Mike Pence knows his duty is to the Constitution.
And as I said before, his duty is largely ceremonial in this capacity.
He does not have the role to overturn this election.
That is not his.
What will happen, you will have again.
Dozens, perhaps more than 100, object in the House.
And the key is 13 US senators.
Senators objecting to the Electoral College.
I think this is the real apprentice reboot, not on NBC, but on the GOP, attempting to cater to the president's dangerous delusions that he won this election in a landslide.
He did not.
Ultimately, this not only is an attack on the Constitution, But it's a waste of all of our time.
They'll force a vote, they'll force a debate, but they cannot and will not change anything as related to the November election.
And the backdrop of this, you'll have.
That's true.
Anybody who tells you that we're going to get a different result other than Joe Biden becomes, you know, his victory is certified is lying to you.
It's not going to happen.
This is largely performative today.
But I will say, you know, to me, like, I don't like what's happening.
It doesn't get us anywhere and it just prolongs this division and so on.
But, you know, the Democrats have objected.
Like, Maxine Waters got up there after Bush won in 2000.
She did the same thing.
And by the way, she didn't even have a senator to back her up.
She's from D.C.
She didn't have one.
She's like, I don't care.
And I'll never forget because Gore, Vice President Gore, who was the one who lost that presidential election to Bush after the Supreme Court's ruling, got up there and said, You may not care, but the rules care, madam.
And he stood up for the rule of law.
Anyway, what's going to happen today?
You're right.
Vice President Pence is supposed to just be a reader, he's supposed to be a reader of each state's.
Vote.
He's not really supposed to interfere.
And you know what's going to be interesting to me is he, the New York Times reported that he is not going to interfere.
And then Trump sent out a tweet yesterday saying that the New York Times reporting was wrong.
But Trump, but Pence hasn't said anything.
So we're going to find out today who's telling the truth.
Loyalty is a one way street for the president.
And that cost of that loyalty will be on display for the country for Mike Pence, who has been blindly loyal to the president for four years.
Every way, shape, or form, and for the president to turn on him for doing his job for upholding his oath to the constitution is a sad one.
But what could get worse is 30,000 Trump supporters marching in DC today, and there is a lot of traffic online about potential violence.
Trump will address those supporters marching in DC today, so it could be a very dark day in this nation's history.
But Liz Cheney tweeting this morning just a reminder Congress has no authority to overturn elections by objecting to electors.
Doing so steals power from the states and violates the Constitution.
The conservative movement is about states' rights, not to mention fiscal discipline, which both seem out the door right now.
Oh, yeah, there's no question.
If the shoe were on the other foot and a Democrat were trying this, the Republicans would be losing their minds.
They'd be losing their minds.
And if you're Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley, you don't want to be cast in the same boat as Maxine Waters, you don't want to be compared to her.
Harris Inauthenticity And MLK Speeches 00:03:31
You are potential candidates in 24 and constitutional attorneys.
All right.
Can I ask you one other question?
Because you mentioned Kamala Harris, who will become, you know, basically the deciding vote in the Senate as vice president.
And there was news about her yesterday that I just, I mean, I want to say I couldn't believe it, but I could believe it.
And it's just, to me, it somehow felt like the hilarious Hilaria Baldwin story where somebody's just pretending some nonsense about their past because they think it makes them sound good.
And for Kamala Harris, it was this ridiculous story about her in the stroller at civil rights marches.
Let me just let the sound play.
I'll let her tell the story and then we'll talk about what happened.
Well, I was in a stroller.
I was in a stroller.
And so I was out there.
And in fact, my mother used to have a very funny story about I was fussing and she said, Kamala, what do you want?
And I said, and this is how she would say it.
And she said, Kamala, what do you want?
And I said, freedom.
Oh, come on.
It was a much cuter story when she would tell it, but that's the story she told.
OMG.
Okay, so I'm sorry, but the maniacal laughter is weird.
I mean, it's just.
It's odd.
I don't know where it comes from.
But that story was made up.
It was either made up by Kamala, or, you know, if you want to be really charitable to her, it was made up by her mother.
And she has just chosen to believe it because it was cribbed.
It was cribbed from Martin Luther King, who told that story years ago.
And she's decided to adopt it as her own.
And it isn't true.
And the media is like, yawn, we don't care.
You know, and she's taking a page out of Joe Biden's book.
I mean, that's how his.
Political career began with plagiarism accusations all over the map.
But yeah, that's from a 1965 interview with Playboy Magazine, similar to what MLK told Playboy Magazine in 1965.
And I think it strikes me that we forget that Kamala Harris was a quick out in the primary, largely because what you see there, she's inauthentic.
She's canned.
She never responded well in the moment, never debated well.
And that's why I don't think ultimately.
She's much of a threat in 2024.
I don't think she'll get the nomination.
I don't think Joe Biden runs for another term, but that inauthenticity I think cost her in the primary and will cost her again.
She never knows who she wants to be, similar to what we saw with Hillary Clinton.
So if she is the nominee, I think Republicans can feel good about their chances of taking back the White House in 2024.
So a guy on Twitter who I follow tweeted out yesterday since she cribbed this from MLK, and who can forget Kamala's famous I have a dweem speech?
Hashtag freedom.
Sometimes Twitter is a force for good.
Well, the trending hashtag this morning, unfortunately for Republicans, you mentioned Twitter is hashtag by Mitch.
That is the top trending story on Twitter because it looks like Mitch McConnell is the Senate minority leader, Chuck Schumer, majority leader moving forward.
Black Rifle Coffee Company Promo 00:03:31
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Dave Briggs.
Thank you for the overview, my friend.
Great to speak with you.
Great to be here.
Thanks, Megan.
Oh, wow.
Think about that.
Chuck Schumer in charge in the Senate, Nancy Pelosi in charge in the House, and Joe Biden at the top with the squad nipping on his ears.
Brace yourselves, America.
We're going on a journey.
And you know what?
Can I just say this for a minute?
If you're a Republican or you're more of a centrist like I am, I, you know, I've Said I'm center right.
I don't see this as all bad because people are going to be fired up.
They're going to be motivated now.
You know, if it were divided government and Joe Biden was moderating his behavior, I don't know.
I think maybe there would be less controversy.
Oh, there's going to be controversy coming up and people are going to get fired up.
I mean, don't forget what happened with the Tea Party in 2010 and, you know, switching the balance of power in 2010 and people marching in the streets and those town halls that we all witnessed.
America was.
angry about the far left agenda being shoved down our throats without majority support in Obamacare.
And I predict you're going to see something like that if this government tries to swing us too far left.
I really do.
And, you know, as I point out, at best, one of those Georgia Senate seats, the one held by Warnock, lasts for two years.
And then there's another election there.
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Joining me now, Hugh Hewitt, host of the Hugh Hewitt Show.
Hewitt's great to have you.
And, you know, Let's just start with it.
Best Ways To Enjoy Coffee Club 00:15:45
It looks like the Republicans lost both seats.
Your reaction.
Let's get to why in one second, but your reaction to that reality.
It is difficult to process.
I went to bed last night because I had to get up at 4 30 to prepare for my show, which is done now.
And I thought maybe there was a chance that David Perdue could hold on and that I might wake up to good news, but I didn't.
I woke up to what is, in effect, a certain Ossoff win.
I don't believe the military ballots or the outstanding ballots can close a 14,000 vote gap, which is somewhere where it is.
And Recounts, et cetera.
It might need a recount, but it's a Democratic Senate, a Democratic House, and a Joe Biden presidency.
And so we've been here before 2009.
We've been here before in January of 1993.
And we've been here before in January of 1997.
I mean, yeah, 1977.
It's not the end of the world.
It's also not particularly pleasant.
I mean, I think forward to what we're looking at in terms of agenda, you know, foreign policy, immigration, environmental.
Regulations, taxes, health care.
And I worry, I worry it's going to go far left.
It's not going to be center left.
It's going to go far left.
Do you think that's realistic?
It's going to go left.
I think Joe Manchin and Angus King and Jack Reed provide us some security blankets in the Senate.
And I believe the narrowness of the Democratic majority in the House, whether it ends up being six to 10 votes, it still kind of depends upon what happens in New York 22 and the Iowa race.
But they are sufficiently narrow in the House that people will be looking over their shoulder at crazy stuff and saying, no, thank you, Nancy.
And in the Senate, I actually believe Angus King is a great patriot.
He's an independent.
He's a Mainer.
And he was co-chair with Mike Gallagher on the Cyber Solarium, a key defense issue.
He's on armed services.
Jack Reed, he's a veteran, knows armed services.
And I think Chris Coons is also kind of a sane person.
So, I do expect taxes to skyrocket.
I think the corporate tax rate will go back to 28, maybe even 32%.
I expect the tax breaks that President Trump's reform extended to small businesses will be erased.
I expect immigration to be rather quickly attached to a reconciliation and Green New Deal, perhaps a carbon tax.
There will be some definite shifts, but it's not the disaster that was expected in November.
Had this result occurred, Megan, on November the 2nd, we still, we being Republicans, I don't want to put you in my camp.
I'm outwardly and always have been a Republican.
We Republicans would be still.
relatively happy with the result of November because it wasn't a blue wave and it's still not a blue wave.
It's a 50-50 country with the reins and the Democratic hands on a few issues that will decide 2022.
How on earth did the Republicans lose this?
Well, great question.
I think two things.
Governor Kemp, one of the rules I have in life is don't make easy decisions hard.
And he had an easy decision when Johnny Isaacson had to retire.
He could have named Doug Collins and it would have been an easy walk to victory in the general.
Instead, he listened only to himself and the consultants who surrounded him and Kelly Loeffler, who were intent on running a so-called woman for the suburbs.
Well, she's a billionaire and she's never run for anything.
And she was a disaster.
Terrible candidate, terrible candidate.
So that's on Kemp.
The last two months are on the president because um, you cannot have a battle between the president and the governor and not Turn off at least 5 to 10.
Democrats turned out.
Republicans didn't turn out in the numbers that they needed.
It's on both of their doorsteps.
What do you make of Lynn Wood, you know, and that rally that we saw and, you know, one of the Stop the Steal rallies where he got up there and said, don't vote?
And, you know, the White House was quick to distance itself from him, but it was very well publicized, of course, because the media loved that message.
And there are a lot of Ticked off Republicans in Georgia who are Trump voters who may have seen it as a middle finger to the party, to the system, to just stay at home.
I don't think Linwood helped.
I also don't think he was particularly significant or Powell.
The whole Kraken nonsense, the longer it went on, the less attached to the reality of the political situation it became, and it became something of a joke.
And I think Linwood is now a joke.
And therefore, I didn't count it so much.
But The Raffensberger presidential conversation of two days ago, that Raffensberger leaked it, is incendiary in a party structure.
And this is a question of 1%, 1% of the party staying away and being at 85% instead of 87%.
If the 1% that was coming decided to stay home, you're not at 87, you're at 85.
And it is a, or you energize 1% on the other side by virtue of that.
So it's a game of inches like football.
When the runoff like this is so close and everybody owns part of the loss, I do.
I'm glad you mentioned the media played up every story that benefited Democrats and they suffocated every story that hurt them.
There are major character concerns about Pastor Warnick.
Major character concerns.
They received almost no attention from the national news media.
They wanted the Democrats to win.
And I don't, I will not accept anyone believing that they were other than.
100% in on Raphael Warnock and John Ossoff.
John Ossoff has nothing to recommend him over David Perdue, except that he had Raphael Warnock on that ticket.
This is a guy, Warnock, who.
Has defended Fidel Castro, who said you can't serve the military and God at the same time.
And the Democrats, Hugh, who not too long ago were lecturing us and Brett Kavanaugh about how we must believe all women, didn't seem to give a damn about what Raphael Warnock's ex wife was saying is his character.
She claimed that he ran over her foot with his car.
He denied that, but the problem seemed much bigger than that with respect to his character as defined by her.
We have a little bit of a back and forth between the two of them, but you tell me how the media would have treated this story if Raphael Warnock were a Republican.
Listen in.
All right, so you walked over.
So I'm like, move.
And she won't move.
And she's keeping the door open.
So I'm like, Chloe, just stay in the car.
And I move, and I close my car door, get in the car, and I start to move slightly, thinking she's here.
Clear.
Yeah, I'm thinking she's clear.
And I barely move.
And all of a sudden, she's screaming that I ran over her foot.
I don't believe it.
This man's running for the United States Senate, and all he cares about right now is his reputation.
I work at the mayor's office, and this is a big problem.
I've been trying to be very quiet about the way that he is for the sake of my kids and his reputation.
I've tried to keep the way that he acts under wraps for a long time, and today he crossed the line.
So that is what is going on here, and he's a great actor.
He is phenomenal at putting on a really good show.
You didn't hear that on every cable news show, on the front of the New York Times and the New Yorker in depth profiles.
On her, Ronan Farrow, you know, the full treatment didn't happen.
Did not happen.
And, you know, he's up for reelection again in two years.
And will this metastasize?
Will it cripple him?
Will it haunt him?
It would haunt a Republican.
I do have to add, though, Megan, you've watched enough people in politics for so long.
You know, a good candidate from a bad one immediately.
Kelly Loeffler is a terrible candidate.
Do you realize I invited her on for 60 consecutive days?
Open invitation, Senator Loeffler, come on the Hugh Hewitt show, 14 affiliates in Georgia.
Drive time, highest rated show in Atlanta for a talk show in the morning.
She declined for 60 straight days.
Now, Senator Perdue came on, Sonny Perdue came on, Republicans galore came on, surrogates came on, Kelly Leffler hit.
What's that tell you about her?
You know, people, what's that tell her?
Tell you.
Yeah, she couldn't do it.
She knew she didn't have the goods.
She's a poser.
She's a billionaire poser who thought it would make her look good and seem good.
Smart to have this seat, but she didn't want to actually answer to her constituents.
And she thought she could buy this seat.
And in fact, you can't buy anything in American politics.
You can buy your way into a meeting.
You can buy a meeting with a senator.
You can buy a lot of lobbyists, but you can't buy votes.
And no matter how hard you try, if there's no there, there, if you're just a nice person, I think she's a nice person.
I do.
But I think she married her money.
And I believe that.
She has got a record of accomplishment that is extraordinarily thin, and that Brian Kemp lost this election and the Senate when he appointed her instead of Doug Collins to that seat.
You know, again, her opponent is pretty radical, right?
So Warnock's going in because he beat her.
And I know that, you know, you and I, as people who are farther to the right on the ideological scale than James Carville, think that these comments are controversial, the things he said.
Carvel came out and said, look, she thinks she's attacking a preacher's words by using some of these comments like God and the military, but she's really attacking the black church.
And that, he said, has speculated.
Spectacularly backfired.
So he thinks these attacks on Warnock and what he said from the pulpit, because he's a preacher, worked against him because the black vote turned out in record numbers to support the Democrats in Georgia last night.
It did.
I do not believe, however, that James is right about that.
I am not a stranger to the black church.
I don't belong to one, but I've attended enough of them and I have a number of friends who are pastors of AME churches.
And they've never said anything like that.
They've never said you cannot serve God in the military.
I played that probably 100 times in the last two months because I wanted Georgia's a military state.
And I wanted the military to understand Pastor Warnick's view of their service.
He is a radical theologian.
I don't believe that the black church generally is that radical.
And so I didn't see the ads.
The one thing that I have not lived in is the Georgia envelope, where the raining down on Warnick and Ossoff of negative ads was relentless.
It was a five.
$150 million campaign, which is so staggering.
That's three California campaigns.
And so it's every ad opportunity on every medium plus internet ads by the score.
And it may have indeed turned into a solidarity issue.
Damn the facts, damn the torpedoes.
I am voting for the pastor because he's being assailed to this extent.
That may have happened, but I don't think it was their choice of excerpt.
It may have been identity politics, though.
Yeah.
Well, it's amazing because Trump did better with the black vote nationally.
I mean, he basically increased his share of it by 50%, even though the numbers overall remained low during the November election.
But the black vote did in the Republicans in Georgia last night.
What do you think?
I know on your show you've been reminding listeners about Senator Schumer's pledge now we take Georgia, then we change America.
So, what?
I don't know.
I mean, as Glenn Beck likes to say, when people tell you what they're going to do, you should believe them.
And sort of take off on the Maya Angelou quote.
And I kind of believe Chuck Schumer is going to change America, that he wants to change America.
And he's probably a stronger leader than Joe Biden is.
You may not like him, but he's probably stronger.
So what does that mean?
I certainly think Trump's legacy on judges will start to get undone.
They're definitely not, those judges are not going to look like Trump's judges.
That's not a huge surprise.
But what are the areas that you are concerned about?
Well, you just hit the number one.
If Mitch McConnell controlled the Senate, The president, President Biden, would get many of his judges, but not all of them.
Now he will get all of them.
And they will move the Overton window for Biden judges just moved left so that the California Supreme Court justices that I'm worried about will end up on the Ninth Circuit.
That will go down.
So the moderating influence of a Republican majority has vanished.
I do not expect Senators Manchin and Senators King to interfere with judges the way that they might.
On the filibuster, as I expect they will, on the filibuster on DC statehood, on expanding the Supreme Court.
That will not fly.
The filibuster is not going to fly.
And so that won't happen.
But nominations are a 50 50 deal.
And I expect most of them will come.
So Mitch McConnell has to adopt Chuck Schumer, slow walking.
They've got to slow walk in a disciplined way, everything.
And he cannot seal it up.
And so they're going, luckily, there isn't one vacancy on the circuit courts right now.
There will suddenly appear many vacancies.
I think Justice Breyer will call it quits at the end of this term.
Because I want to remind a lot of your listeners, Megan, you'll remember it.
In 2001, it was a 50 50 Senate when the smoke cleared in January of 2001.
And by June, It was 5149 Democrats because one Democrat switched.
Well, life happens.
People die, people quit, people change their minds, and people jump parties.
And so I expect the Democrats to do the one thing Republicans have never done, which is run.
I mean, they're going to try and run the clock, they're going to stay in session, they're going to run, run, run.
And Senator McConnell knows that body very, very well, as does Senator Thune.
They're going to be maxed out in trying to delay the Democrats as much as the Democrats.
Delayed President Trump.
It'll be fascinating from a scholarly point of view to see who's better at obstruction, but Chuck Schumer set the bar pretty high.
Well, what do you think the big agenda items will be for Biden?
Because you looked at when Barack Obama came into power and we had one sixth of the U.S. economy altered by Obamacare.
Now, he had a much bigger mandate than Joe Biden does, who got dragged across the finish line by Democratic operatives who weekend at Bernie's right over into November to the White House.
And now he's got a very, very slim margin.
I mean, it's basically an evenly divided Senate with Kamala Harris set to cast the deciding vote.
They lost seats in the House.
So assuming, like most of us do, that the American public is likely to divide the government in two years, what does he do in these first two years?
Police Force And Truthfinder Links 00:15:23
What do you think are his most because he promised amnesty, Hugh?
He openly promised amnesty at the presidential debate and beyond.
That would be huge.
But what do you think he's going to use that collateral for?
You see, the president gets two bites at the apple.
He gets the reconciliation process in the next year, and then he gets the reconciliation process in 2022.
So he gets a 2021 reconciliation package and a 2022 reconciliation.
That only requires 51 votes in the Senate.
And a reconciliation package is by law, and the parliamentarian will rule out of order anything that does not affect the budget.
So I believe the first thing he will do will be to raise taxes comprehensively.
And the Green New Deal taxes will be a part of that.
So that carbon tax is, I think, the very first thing.
Up the tax on corporations, up the tax on small businesses, return the state and local income tax deduction and perhaps the mortgage interest deduction, which has been crushing blue states' revenues.
I think that all goes into the first reconciliation bill.
The second one is immigration because you can maybe squeeze it in by taxing new citizens or new residents.
So if you said everybody who's in the country, Can become a citizen by virtue of paying a tax of a few hundred dollars, then it becomes a tax and spending issue and is qualified, I think, for reconciliation.
I think those are the two big issues that he can accomplish with a 50 Democrat Senate.
There's also the Congressional Review Act, Megan.
And people forget that the Congressional Review Act provides that by simple majority, any regulation passed in the last year can be repealed.
And there was a lot of work done.
By the Trump administration in the last year, particularly out of the Environmental Protection Agency.
I always note my son works there so that no one claims a conflict of interest.
Not for long.
He doesn't work there, but he worked there now.
And they did a lot of work this year.
And that's all going to be repealed.
Oh, yeah.
I mean, all those Trump executive orders, those are all going away.
But we knew that as soon as Joe Biden won.
Now it's a bigger question of what can be done with the cooperation of the co equal branches of government, one of which he's going to stack with more left leaning judges and one of which he now controls as the Democrats appear to take power in both branches.
The House and the Senate.
And don't forget, Obamacare was shoved through that same reconciliation.
It was an economic.
Budget move, which is why they only required 51 votes instead of 60 at the time.
And that was why the Scott Brown election was so important in Massachusetts and so on and so forth.
Anyway, I don't know.
I think things could get more radical and I think it could happen soon.
It's funny because you're right.
You've got guys like Manchin of West Virginia who are not far left people at all.
You know, that guy's at best center left.
But then you've got people like Mitt Romney who I'm amazed at what's happened to Mitt Romney.
Have you been seeing the videos that have been circulating of people harassing him, like in the airport and so on?
But Mitt Romney sounds an awful lot.
more like a Democrat to me than any other guy I ever saw get the Republican nomination for president.
Well, I'm a big fan of Governor Romney.
I helped him write his book, Megan, when he ran for president.
I wrote a book about him myself.
So I am a very, very big fan of Governor and now Senator Romney.
He voted instantly for Amy Coney Barrett, came out on the first day and said, I'm voting for Barrett.
I believe he is a traditional New England Republican who happened to be transplanted to California and then to Utah.
And that Like traditional New England Republicans, he is center right and more on the center than the right.
But I don't believe he'll vote for tax.
He's a business guy.
He's not going to vote for business destroying taxes.
He won't vote for crazy left wing judges.
He won't approve.
He is like Rob Portman, old school Republican, country club Republicans, they used to be called.
And they still matter.
And they're suburban.
And I don't think the harassment you've seen is the underlying breach in the Republican Party.
The fault line in the GOP is between Trumpists.
And old guard, and I try and keep everybody happy and I try and listen to everybody because I want everyone to get along.
I don't know, that is the question can there be a reconciliation?
The heirs to Trump, in my mind, are Ron DeSantis, Tom Cotton, and Mike Pompeo.
Uh, I don't think Ted Cruz is in that category.
I don't think anyone who ran against him actually in 2016 can pick up the mantle without MAGA America being upset, but I think those three people can, and maybe Nikki Haley.
As a fourth, and maybe Dan Crenshaw as a fifth.
But that's going to be the debate in 2023, 24 is what does the president do and to whom does he do it?
I don't know.
I've always respected Mitt Romney, but he's been so sharp in his criticism of the president and the president's supporters that I understand their anger at him.
I mean, the people of Utah are ticked off.
They wanted a Republican to go in there and support a Republican agenda.
And Mitt Romney, he's been so all over the board in hating President Trump, supporting President Trump, going back to President Trump on bended knee, then attacking President Trump.
I understand why people have developed this feeling about him.
I don't like to see anybody get harassed just as a human matter, but I don't know.
He seems to go, and he's at the Black Lives Matter protest.
It's like, do you know what you're protesting for?
Do you actually know what that group stands for?
Like, he to me looks awfully, awfully democratic these days.
And I do wonder when push comes to shove, what constituency.
He's serving.
And I look, I like the guy moderated one of his conferences.
It's not like I have any problem with Mitt Romney, the man.
As a politician, he seems an awful lot more to the left than most of those GOPers.
So, listen, I want to do two things.
I want to quickly get an ad in, but I also want to talk about Jacob Blake quickly, who was the man who was shot in Kenosha, Wisconsin.
He was not killed, but he was shot repeatedly by a police officer.
There's been news in that case.
But before we get to it, I want to talk to the audience about Truthfinder.
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Okay, Hugh, so I want to get back to politics and what's happening with the presidential race in a second, but quickly on Jacob Blake.
This is one of the cases that we saw over the summer that led to massive protests.
It led to that shooting we saw in Wisconsin later with Kyle Rittenhouse at that one protest for which he's facing charges.
And it all came down to an incident in which Jacob Blake, who was accused of violating a protective order, That his ex had gotten against him, showed up at her house in a threatening way.
She called the police.
They showed up.
He resisted arrest.
He got the cop in a headlock.
Some of the scuffle was caught on camera, but not all of it.
And he wound up getting shot by a police officer seven times.
Unleash, you know, hell because the protests happened.
Kamala Harris went to visit him in the hospital, said she was proud of him.
And many people taking a look at these facts thought, why are you proud of him?
He was accused of.
Digitally raping the woman that called the police on him.
And at best, he assaulted a police officer who was trying to place him under arrest for violating a protective order.
It's not to say he deserved to get shot seven times, but you don't go tell somebody like that they're proud of him, that you're proud of him.
And what the facts appeared to suggest at the time was that Jacob Blake was armed, that the reason he got shot is because A, he resisted arrest, B, he had a knife on him and refused to drop it, despite the police's calls that he do so.
And then he turned with the knife on police, and that is when they opened fire.
Okay.
People refused to accept this, even though the evidence was there.
Third parties, the police union came out early on, and the DA.
And I'll tell you what they're saying now.
Yesterday, the Kenosha DA said, We're not charging this cop.
It is incontrovertible, incontrovertible that Jacob Blake was armed.
And we've got some of that.
Let's take a listen to what he said.
Very important.
Jacob Blake, while actively resisting, arms himself with a knife.
I continue to hear.
I think I heard it at the rally last night, the vigil, where someone again said he was unarmed.
It is absolutely incontrovertible that Jacob Blake was armed with a knife during this encounter.
Okay.
So that was obvious to anyone paying attention to this case from the beginning.
And you could see what appeared to be a knife in the car that he approached.
And the police from the beginning had been saying that he had it on him and then turned against them with it.
Here's the thing.
Here's the rub, Hugh.
The media takes these cases, blows them up without context, without an open mind, without even deigning to report what the police officer's side is, and tries to make it a race issue, a police abuse issue.
You and I both know as lawyers, the law makes no distinction between bullet number one and bullet number seven.
If the cop has a reasonable fear of bodily safety or death, he may shoot to kill.
That's the law.
Look good or feel good to see an officer shoot a man seven times.
But people don't understand what it's like to be a cop and have to worry every night that he's not going to go home to his family and understand that every day in this country a cop gets shot by somebody he's trying to arrest.
So Here's my issue with it.
Number one, the media.
And number two, activists who will refuse to acknowledge this, as the Kenosha DA says.
They will refuse to acknowledge that Jacob Blake was armed and had assaulted a police officer.
And they did have a reasonable fear for their bodily safety or lives.
And that's why no one's going to be charged.
And I'll just say one other thing in it.
I tweeted out an article that reflected the police officer's side and the DA's suggestion that this guy was armed, that he had a knife at the time.
Well, the internet lost its mind.
It attacked me.
Racist, racist, racist.
awful person in particular, Soledad O'Brien, who I really can't stand.
She's the nastiest person on Twitter, attacked me with a racist insult for saying that.
Somebody tweeted out yesterday, where's your apology to Megyn Kelly?
I don't need an apology.
It's not about me.
But here's the problem.
The media does this.
Anybody who pushes back on these narratives gets called an awful name.
The media has no interest in reporting the truth.
They try to shut you down by calling you terrible terms.
This is what's real.
And the reason I have never gotten one of these cases wrong, not once, I've always been able to tell you whether the cop is going to get charged or not. is because I just pay attention to where the facts take me.
I don't have an ideological agenda on this stuff.
I'm not some activist.
And I think we're in a lot of trouble in this country when it comes to race relations and other issues right now, because we have a dishonest media that's more focused on identity politics and virtue signaling than they are on facts, Hugh.
Yeah, I agree.
They have to distinguish between unjustified uses of force and justified uses of force.
This came home to me when Michael Eric Dyson was my guest on my show recently.
He has a new book out, Long Time Coming, which I would recommend to everyone, which revisits most of the high profile cases of the last decade, including Michael Brown and Michael Eric Dyson, Dr. Dyson, I disagreed about Michael Brown because I'm very intimately familiar with the Michael Brown shooting, and Dr. Dyson believes it was unjust.
And I believe, look, it was an Eric Holder Department of Justice that exonerated the officer.
In the Kenosha case, there's one factor also you did not mention, Megan there were children in the car.
And if he had been allowed to drive away, he would have had.
Three children in imminent danger of their lives in an excited state and with a weapon and with police pursuit.
So, I've always thought that this was a case that ought to have cautioned the media to slow down.
But, like you, I bring a lawyer's perspective to everything.
I've never taught criminal law, but I've taught a lot of constitutional cases involving the criminal law.
And it always does come down to the moment in which the incident occurs and not to people on the sidelines.
My own newspaper, The Washington Post, I believe, had to issue a correction yesterday.
Because they said Mr. Blake was unarmed and they had to rush out.
Well, in fact, he was armed.
And so, like Michael Brunt, this is not an Eric Garner case.
This is not a George Floyd case.
This is a different case.
And however, I do understand, and it's the reason I encourage people to read Michael Eric Dyson, I understand the point of view of activists who say, don't confuse the facts with the trend.
And the trend is that the police approach Blacks differently than they approach every other American group.
There's an argument there.
That argument, however, does not make policemen go to jail or punish them when they are in fear of bodily harm or when they have to go to the aid of three children in the back of a vehicle being about to be operated by an individual who's just been in a fight with the police and is armed.
So, to me, the best thing to do is to take race out of the case, examine it, and then add race back in.
And usually, if you do that, you'll get to the right answer.
If you talk to Glenn Lowry, he'll be quick to tell you, Hugh, that the reason the police.
Approach people of color differently than everybody else is because the crime rates in the major cities.
It's not popular to say, but 60% of the murders in major cities are committed by black defendants.
And so there is empirical data that may make the police approach, in certain cities in particular, people of color differently than white people or other groups of potential suspects.
It's not popular, but these are facts and they have to be taken into account when assessing police behavior.
I have to tell you a quick story, Megan.
In the first presidential debate I did, After your famous debate, I got the second debate at the Reagan Library, and I had to drive very quickly from Palo Alto to the Reagan Library.
And I was driving at night, and I may have been exceeding the speed limit.
I will not confess to that, but I may have been going fast, and my gas cap may have been open.
But it was because I was in a hurry.
Constitutional Crisis And Pardons 00:12:22
I had to make rehearsal, and you know how that goes.
So I got pulled over by a chippy in California who approached the car, and I decided I would do the dishonorable thing.
I played the debate card.
I said, Well, I have to get down to the Reagan Library, I'm in the debate.
And he looked at me and he walked back to his car and he, honest to goodness, checked to see if Hugh Hue up was on the debate panel.
And he came back and said, Okay, I'm going to let you go.
Would you get out of the car for a moment?
I said, Sure.
Got out of the car and he said, I'm going to let you go.
But on the condition that you ask those candidates, when are they going to stand up for the police who are being fronted as I was last night on this stretch by every motorist who believes it's in their interest now to confront police?
Fronting mean to stand close to a police officer and argue with them.
I didn't ask the question.
Jake did.
But it was a revelation to me.
He wasn't asking for any particular point of view just to let the public know.
That the life of the police officer has grown increasingly difficult with attention to every controversial case.
Increasingly impossible to do.
Yeah, I know.
I mean, listen, I don't want to discount that there's any bias in law enforcement or that black men in particular get treated differently by the cops and not always for good reasons.
But we do have to keep in mind the overall statistics and factoring in what happens in these interactions and getting to the root cause of why that happens.
Everyone just knee jerk bias, bias, bias, race, race, race, racists isn't helpful.
There's so much more to it.
And if we would just be honest about what causes these crime rates and how we can help people in the inner city do better and have better lives and be less likely to resort to crime without just saying everyone's racist, it's white supremacy, I think we get a lot farther.
Just to put the point on what you said, the Washington Post did tweet out yesterday unbelievable.
Here's the quote Police officers won't be charged in shooting of Jacob Blake.
An unarmed black man who was shot seven times in the back in Kenosha, Wisconsin.
How disgustingly wrong.
I won't make you criticize your publication, but I'll do it.
Disgustingly wrong.
And they're not the only ones.
I mean, that narrative has been pushed by a lot of people.
Okay, moving on.
Can we stop for a second, man?
Yeah, go for it.
I want people to note what Megan just did there.
And it's a professional courtesy not to ask someone to critique their own platform.
But in this case, it is an inexcusable error.
And one that the Post immediately corrected because it is an inexcusable error on a controversy of extraordinary public importance that could lead to violence in public demonstrations to get the basic facts wrong.
Inexcusable error.
Yeah.
Well, it's good they corrected it.
I will say that.
Okay.
So let's talk about the presidency, which is still being debated today, Hugh.
Today, as you know, we're supposed to have Mike Pence.
Preside over the finalization of these electoral votes.
He's being pressured by the president to not do it.
It's the certification of the vote of the Electoral College.
Senator Hawley, Senator Cruz are promising to object, to make waves.
And in order to have real debate on any of this, you have to have a member of the House and a member of the Senate.
And you've got them both on several states object, and then they have debates in their own individual chambers, and then they come back and they see if there's any way.
The bottom line is nothing, this is all for show.
Nothing's going to change.
Biden's going to get certified.
But what do you make of what's happening today?
A couple of things.
One, it happened in 2004 and 2016, Democrats making the objections, the debates being triggered.
And so I don't think it's a constitutional crisis.
I don't think it's the end of the republic.
I think it has become now part of the pattern and practice that will now follow presidential elections forever.
That some members of the public will ask their representatives, key word there, to represent them with their dismay at some aspect.
It was Ohio in 2004 and 2016.
I'm not sure what animated the objectors, but it is not a constitutional crisis.
It's the exercise of representation responsibility.
I do not, I would not myself object, and I would not myself participate in any debate that, Traffic in falseness.
I have to deal every day with callers who want to talk about Dominion.
There's nothing wrong with the Dominion machines.
I have to talk every day, had to talk about today about dead people voting.
There is no evidence of dead people voting.
This is again the lawyer in both of us coming out.
60 different legal challenges were filed, and in not one of them was an evidentiary bar met that would allow it to proceed to the accumulation of evidence by deposition or exhibit such that judgments would be made following rulings.
And so there just isn't a case anywhere in the United States.
Not one state, not two states, not the minimum of three states necessary.
So this is performance art, and performance art and politics is just fine.
And what I don't like, and we're back to double standards, is that which was uncontroversial and covered sympathetically in 2004 and 2016 is being treated as a rending of the Republic in 2020 because it's Ted Cruz, Josh Hawley, and Jim Lankford bringing it forward.
I would not myself.
Object, but I do object to the idea that this is some kind of crisis.
I agree with you on that.
I agree with you.
If there is a provision for it happening in the Constitution, it's not by definition a constitutional abuse to then do it.
It's like, people are like, it's a constitutional crisis.
It's like, well, how can it be a crisis if the Constitution allows for this very thing?
It's making you uncomfortable.
You don't like it.
That doesn't make it a constitutional crisis.
If we could just repeat that again.
And if the president doesn't go to the inauguration, that's not a constitutional crisis.
If he doesn't have Joe Biden over to the White House, it's not a constitutional crisis.
A constitutional crisis is when the Constitution is ignored or broken.
It's not when it's actually the pattern of law or practice is established and is being followed by a different party.
So let me ask you about the next two weeks, right?
So Joe Biden's going to get certified today.
And what does Trump do over the next two weeks before the inauguration?
Or do we expect more pardons?
And if so, which ones?
I don't know.
I'm waiting to see.
I mean, he's still going to be saying what he's saying about the electoral process, and there's a big rally in D.C. today.
But what do you think we could expect?
I think we will see more pardons.
Full disclosure, I put my name to a pardon effort for a.
Why would you do?
No, I just sent a note to a member of the staff saying, I think this fellow deserves it.
A longtime rehabilitated prisoner who's active in evangelical circles.
And I don't think that's routine at the end of the administration.
It was routine when I was in the White House.
People get pardon applications, and people ask all the time, and sometimes it works.
It wouldn't be high profile.
It wouldn't be controversial.
It's nothing like that.
But I do believe there will be more pardons because it's the last thing a president can do.
I hope there are no corrupt pardons.
I do also think that he will be Expansive in his grants of Medal of Freedoms.
I'm not sure that I would have given one to Devin Nunes and Jim Jordan.
I like them both, but it's not Medal of Freedom stuff.
But that's the, again, it's up to him.
It's performance art, again, and the Democrats do it when they're in power, and the president's going to do it when he's in power.
I would just add to everybody, it will be fine.
Everything's going to be fine.
And the president's going to decide for himself when he's not president anymore how to conduct himself, and that will be fine.
And Joe Biden will be president, and that will be fine.
We live, In the best time ever to be alive, in the best country ever to be alive in.
And I think sometimes we get caught up in the, I mean, we're talking on a podcast and a new way of communicating.
So the ups and downs, if we can keep our eyes on the Chinese Communist Party, which is crushing Hong Kong this week, that would be a good thing as opposed to our foibles.
And these are just foibles in the larger scheme of things.
No, no, we would rather navel gaze about pigmentation and lady parts.
That's what we're focused on these days.
Exactly.
So what do you think, just quickly, the future of the GOP party?
Because I do wonder, I asked.
After last night in Georgia, people are saying, Oh, Trump, you know, he's a drag.
He's a drag.
He's not a drag.
He's half the party.
So, what happens happens?
He's going to exit the White House, though, not the national stage.
Exactly.
And he's never going to give up the Twitter account, and nor should he.
I think he's going to talk Trump 2024 immediately.
Whether or not he runs, that will remain open, but he'll raise a lot of money.
His endorsements will matter significantly.
I hope he has good advisors around him on the candidate selection process because we do not need.
Uh, fringe candidates they will lose as they did in the first Tea Party years.
Uh, easy seats like Delaware.
Chris Coons was there because we ran a very marginal person who beat Mike Castle in a primary.
Mike Castle would have been a Republican senator like Mitt Romney, center right, who would still be there to this day.
I don't think he died.
And uh, instead, it's been Chris Coons.
So we need to be wise, but uh, not much will be discernible until after the redistricting is done.
The key thing for the Republican Party is to recruit.
It's sort of like um, Media has got to go younger, younger, younger, and it's got to get rid of the, frankly, people like my age.
They've got to pass from the scene and let new people expressing new points of view rise up and take control of the party.
And that transition is never easy.
But if the Republicans do one thing right, which is to candidate recruit the way that Tom Emmer did this time for the House cycle, if Mitch McConnell does that, they do have to persuade Pat Toomey to run again in Pennsylvania.
But they can have a pretty good cycle if they come up with a woman veteran in Colorado.
Who was in combat, they can beat Michael Bennett in 2022.
If they come up with a woman veteran in Georgia, she can beat Raphael Warnick in 2022.
There's a lot of opportunity because we actually, we being Republicans again, I don't want to make you a member of my party, Megan.
I know you're an independent.
My party can very much win everything back in two and four years, like we did in 2010 and 2016.
And just to reiterate, you were sort of calling out who you thought was the future in terms of.
Presidential politics of 2024.
You mentioned DeSantis of Florida, Crenshaw, possibly.
Who else did you say?
Tom Cotton, Mike Pompeo, and Nikki Haley, I would guess, are the frontrunners because I do think anyone who ran against President Trump in 2016 has a burden in the eyes of MAGA America, whereas those who are generally supportive of him do not.
Not even Ted Cruz?
I mean, I know you said earlier no, but like he's gone full Trump.
You know, he's one of his biggest supporters.
It still remains difficult, in my view, to see someone stepping up who has crossed swords with the president.
He's got the longest memory ever.
And it just will come into play in that cycle.
What about Tim Scott?
Very, very, very viable candidate.
And I think, boy, it would be great if he did.
He likes being a senator, though.
Megan, I've talked to him on a few occasions about policy.
He really likes being a senator.
And there are some people like Mitch McConnell who are called to the Senate for their entire lives.
And I think maybe Tom Cotton may end up being one of those, but he also has ambitions for the highest office.
And what's interesting, we've learned the last two cycles when the moment is upon you, you cannot hesitate, you have to run.
And so I think it's going to be 24 people, and you and I are going to be moderating debates throughout the Republican primary season.
Double the number that we did in 2016.
I'm going to put another name on your list, and I realize he's only an AG, a state AG, but Daniel Cameron.
I got eyes on Daniel Cameron.
He is a rising star in the Republican Party.
I think he's sort of the Barack Obama of the right.
And he'll be a governor by that time because he will win the governorship of Kentucky in the next cycle.
He's 100% going to be a governor, and he's brilliant.
He's brave.
He doesn't care what you're going to say about him, all the names he's been called after he refused to.
Get the indictment in the Breonna Taylor case.
We had him on the show not long ago.
Really, really impressive guy.
As are you, Hugh Hewitt.
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As are you.
Megan, always a pleasure.
Thank you.
Continued good luck with this.
It's going so well and increased success to you in 2021.
Aw, thank you.
Much love.
We appreciate it.
Thanks to Hugh Hewitt.
That was super fun, as well as Dave Briggs.
And I want to tell you before we go, our episode today was brought to you in part by Norton360 with LifeLock.
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Don't forget to tune into the program on Friday because we're going to have Glenn Beck on a tear about his call for secession and where this country's going over the next four years.
Love Glenn.
We were always tight at Fox, and he's got some interesting thoughts on where we are at this moment in time.
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