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Oct. 30, 2020 - The Megyn Kelly Show
01:22:53
20201030_election-weekend-with-james-rosen-kim-klacik-and-d
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Welcome to the Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.
Today, the beginning of election weekend, and we will be joined for the final days of this 2020 race by James Rosen, Kim Klasik.
You remember her, she gave the view such a hard time, it was awesome.
And Doug Schoen, my favorite Democrat pollster from Fox News.
Stay tuned.
Hey, everybody, it's Megyn Kelly, and welcome to the Megyn Kelly Show.
This is it, last few days before the big vote.
And hopefully, by this point next week, we're going to know who the winner is.
Hopefully.
Got a lot to go over today, and we're going to get started with James Rosen, my old pal from Fox News, in just one second.
But first, I want to talk to you about Palm Industries.
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And now, James Rosen.
He is the national investigative reporter for Sinclair Broadcast Group and a New York Times bestselling author and all around great guy and friend.
James, so good to have you here.
How are you?
Megan, I'm blessed to be with you.
It's so good to hear your voice.
Oh, I have missed you.
I have missed you so much.
And I want to catch up personally, but I guess we got to get to the News at hand.
But you're well.
You're happy.
You're doing great as this investigative reporter.
Yeah.
Sinclair is very good to me.
They have stations across the country and they're growing.
But I feel like our separation, Megan, has just been one very long commercial break.
Philadelphia Race Balance Shifts 00:08:20
And now we're back.
You know, when I first met James in the DC Bureau, because that's where I started for Fox and he was there, he was asking me, So, how's it going?
How are you enjoying it?
And I said, Well, I like it.
But one of my frustrations is I don't really get to break a lot of news.
This is when I was doing, you know, Eight hits a morning on Fox and Friends, and then whatever show preceded the show.
I would ultimately start with Hammer, America's Newsroom.
A couple years later.
And I said, So I can't really work the stories.
I just kind of go off somebody else's reporting.
And he said, Oh, oh, my dear, that's where you're confused.
You thought that you were actually a reporter.
You are, in fact, an element presenter.
I dispute that I would have ever addressed you as my dear.
I may have editorialized there a little bit.
I may have embellished.
But remember that?
Because it's true.
When you first start off and you're just doing these hits, it's not about reporting, it's about learning how to be on television.
Yeah.
And, you know, you started at a very high level, having come, you know, from the legal world and with just a short period of time as a local reporter.
But I think you've done good.
It worked out okay in the end.
But you were always such a good friend to me, you and your wife, Sarah.
And it's just a pleasure to reconnect.
All right.
So, and a great reporter.
So let's start with because I haven't talked to you.
So, can I just start with your overall take on where this race is right now with just days to go?
It's close and it's getting tighter.
As a lot of people predicted it would, as our times sort of demand.
I was looking recently, Megan, at the last five presidents who won re election.
Okay.
That brings us to Ronald Reagan, Richard Nixon, Bill Clinton, Barack Obama, and George W. Bush.
And that, in fact, is the order in which, if you total up the two elections in which those presidents won, right, when they get elected and then when they got re elected, if you total up their total number, Of electoral votes between those two elections for each of those people.
President Reagan had the highest of the five recent presidents who got reelected with over 1,000 electoral votes.
Richard Nixon came in second with over 800.
Then you go to Bill Clinton, who had about 790 plus.
Number four on the ranking is Barack Obama.
And number five is George W. Bush.
And what does that tell us?
It tells us that this is a function of our ever.
More polarized political culture that even presidents who did very well, who sort of creamed their opponent, right, such as Barack Obama did in 2008 and 2012, he's still the fourth of the five most recent reelected presidents in terms of overall electoral votes.
It tells you that our politics are really tight.
We have close races more than we ever did before, and there's very little margin for error.
You can see the same when you look at the Supreme Court confirmation votes, where you had people like Ginsburg and Scalia, polar opposites on the ideological spectrum.
Getting confirmed 98 to two or 98 to zero.
And now look at the votes today.
It's split right down the middle along partisan lines.
Well, I've been saying that I view the presidential contest as like a basketball game where the only thing that matters is the last two minutes.
And we're in the last two minutes now.
And we're going to have Doug Schoen, another Fox favorite, coming on in a minute to talk to us about the polls.
But they are tightening as expected.
And the real question is how much trust do we put in them?
But I want to talk to you about a couple items in the news.
That may affect these next few days and possibly some of the votes.
Let's talk about Pennsylvania because I have yet to find somebody who knows what they're talking about in this race who doesn't mention that state first.
It's the most important right now.
Trump really needs to win it again, really wants to win it again.
And Biden is, according to the polls, leading there and really wants to take it as well.
That something went on there over the past week, few days, that could affect potentially the balance of the race.
And that is.
Another police involved shooting of Walter Wallace Jr., a 27 year old man who was reported to the police for having been screaming and running around with a knife.
The cops showed up.
The guy was sort of running down the sidewalk, then came into the road and then came, it looked to me in watching the video, at the police with a knife.
And they opened fire on him, shooting him repeatedly, and he died.
Now we've had days of riots in Philadelphia.
And again, this is an important state, so this has political implications as well.
The Walmart was ransacked, an ATM was exploded.
They've had, I think, 30 cops wounded, a dozen people shot the other night.
Both candidates have condemned the looting and the rioting.
But here we are again asking ourselves how does this play?
Politically, when you have another black man shot and more rioting and looting in response, what are your thoughts?
First, we're obligated to express our condolences to the victim's family and to recognize that this is a human tragedy.
But since our focus today is politics, we examine the political impact of this tragic event.
It's interesting that the violence that we're seeing on the streets in Philadelphia.
After this incident became known, it doesn't seem to be as virulent or widespread as we saw in the immediate aftermath of the George Floyd killing.
It also has not spread to other cities around the country.
And I find that fascinating.
And you have to ask yourself, why isn't it?
It could simply be fatigue, it could simply be the weather that people who turn out and commit violence and riot will more readily do so in warm weather than they will in late October.
It could also be that there are organized elements to these things, and that perhaps so close to the election, it is seen from the perspective of those groups and individuals as undesirable for the candidate they would want to win, meaning Mr. Biden, if there is pervasive disorder in the streets of the United States at this point, that that might benefit President Trump.
So I can't say why it's not spreading the way it's spread across the country in the springtime.
But as it stands, I don't see it having much of an impact at all, simply because, again, there's the Trump voters or the likely Trump voters, there's the likely Biden voters, and then there is the very narrow band of persuadables who haven't yet voted.
And I don't think if you're motivated to vote for President Trump, he will have some number of voters of his, likely Trump voters, who just won't vote, right?
And the question is how many of them will be swayed by what's happening in Philadelphia to go vote for him?
I suspect very few, if any.
No Biden voters are going to change their vote as a result of it.
And if you're truly undecided, and it's hard to even fathom these people, right?
Like, how could you not have an opinion on President Trump at this point, or Joe Biden for that matter?
But to the extent that they exist, probably I would have to imagine that events other than what we're seeing on the streets of Philadelphia will determine whether they go out and vote at all and for whom they vote.
I think a lot of the undecideds are people who might not like Donald Trump's style.
His affect, what the things he says or tweets, but they like his policies.
Or National Review just had a column this week saying a vote for Trump is a middle finger on the culture wars.
And so there may be a lot of people out there who don't really love Trump personally the way his core fans do, but they're sick of leftist woke bullies trying to tell people how to live.
And if you are such a person in Philadelphia, a suburban mom in Philadelphia, this is who everyone's courting, you know, the The more rioting, the more problematic.
Because, I mean, Walter Wallace Jr. was bipolar and had mental health issues, which makes anyone feel compassionate for him.
Bobielinski's Allegations Explained 00:15:23
But we don't know that the police knew that.
What we do know is he was awaiting trial for allegedly threatening to shoot a woman and her house up.
That in 2017, he pleaded guilty to robbery, assault, and possessing a weapon after kicking down the door of another woman and putting a gun to her head.
He's served one to two years.
And he pleaded guilty a couple years earlier to assault and resisting arrest after punching a cop in the face.
Now, again, we don't know what the officers knew when they showed up there, but in a lot of these cases, once you hear what the background was of the person interacting with the cops as he came at them with a knife, it makes you pause because if the cops did know, This history, you can understand their heightened sense of anxiety.
Not that they would have to know any of that.
If somebody's coming at you, you know nothing about him, and you're a police officer and he's got a knife on you, you are allowed to shoot.
You're allowed to shoot to kill if you have a reasonable fear for your bodily safety or your life.
But okay, so let me ask you, James, that you've got that, that's breaking.
The other thing that broke this week that got a lot of play on Fox, but not really elsewhere, was this Tony Bubulinski, who gave Tucker an exclusive interview.
And this is the guy.
Who says he was in a business deal with Hunter Biden, and he's specifically saying with Joe Biden, with this Chinese company, and they were trying to form a deal where they were going to get 10 million bucks a year.
And he really is putting the allegations squarely on Joe Biden, saying, We did have direct dealings, he was involved in this deal, and his denials are not truthful.
What are your thoughts?
It's an important set of allegations.
The attention from mainstream media that it warrants, or that similar stories where a different ox is receiving Goring would have received or have received.
But in essence, for the benefit of our listeners, Tony Bobulinski is a very wealthy businessman to whom Hunter Biden and his associates reached out in 2015 while the elder Biden was still serving as vice president and asked him to serve.
Asked Mr. Bobielinski to serve as the CEO of a company that was preparing to do a very large business deal with Chinese entities, specifically the Chinese state owned or state run firm known as CFC.
It's an energy firm.
It is sort of equivalent to what Russia has with Gazprom.
And this was a very lucrative deal.
By 2017, when Mr. Biden was no longer serving as vice president, Mr. Bobielinski had two meetings with Joe Biden about his son's.
Business dealings.
What's important is that Vice President Biden does not deny that he met Tony Bobielinski.
And there are a whole series of documents and corporate agreements and WhatsApp chats and so forth that Mr. Bobielinski has preserved on various cell phone devices, which are now said to be in the possession of the FBI following Mr. Bobielinski's interview last Friday with the FBI.
And that's a very important detail.
The whole upshot of this is supposedly that, according to Mr. Bobielinski, it was well known to him, to his partners, and Although he never discussed it explicitly with the vice president, known to Joe Biden, that Joe Biden was to receive off the books a 10% cut from a $10 million deal that Mr. Hunter Biden's company, along with Mr. Bobielinski, were finalizing with this Chinese energy giant.
Let me ask you this.
Let me jump in and ask you this.
One of the things Bobielinski said in his interview on Fox was that he asked Jim Biden, Joe Biden's brother, how are you guys getting away with this?
Aren't you concerned?
And that Jim chuckled in response and answered, Plausible deniability.
In response to which I asked, What do they need to deny if he had already left office?
I mean, it feels a little untoward doing this kind of business with a Chinese.
After you've been the vice president of the United States, I get that, but no one's alleging that it's illegal, correct?
So, what would be the problem if all of this were true?
First of all, the comment that Bobby Linsky attributes to Vice President Biden's brother of plausible deniability, for that, so far we have no recording or anything.
And presumably, Jim Biden has plausible deniability to say that he ever said plausible deniability.
What's more important is the set of documents that Mr. Bobby Linsky has produced.
And which include references to quote unquote Hunter saving 10% for the big guy.
And that reference to the big guy is not challenged by any of the number of people who are on that email thread, an email that was not generated by Mr. Bobulinski.
Here's the core that the viewers and the voters should understand.
What is the nature of the charge that Mr. Bobulinski is making?
As far as I know, he is not alleging a criminal act by Joe or Hunter Biden, but Certainly, if you're going to make charges against the Bidens at this stage of the campaign, certainly there's a political character to the charge.
We understand that.
But the most important statement that Bob Ulinski made on the Tucker Carlson program the other night was that he believes that Joe Biden is compromised by this in terms of being susceptible to blackmail or pressure from the Chinese government.
Why would that be?
It doesn't necessarily require that Mr. Biden have committed a crime.
If Joe Biden stands on a debate stage in front of an audience of 15 or 17 million people and denies having ever known, Anything at all about Hunter Biden's business dealings, denies even having had what any father would have with his son, who's in normal conversation about what's going on with your business affairs, et cetera.
If you say publicly, as the Democratic presidential nominee, and then later you become president, I never knew anything about Hunter Biden's business dealings, and the Chinese themselves are in a position to expose that as a lie, that could conceivably subject the president of the United States to Chinese pressure, influence, or blackmail.
And so there is a national security component to Mr. Bob Ulinski's allegations that should be of interest, certainly to all voters, but also to the mainstream news media.
That's interesting.
So, if it's a lie, it's almost like it would have been better for him to say, if it's true, I had a couple of meetings, it didn't go anywhere.
You know, I was basically doing my son a solid by taking the meeting, but I was never going to get involved.
And I was out of office at the time, yes.
And I was out of office, right.
That would have been better than if this is a lie, lying and thereby giving the Chinese something to hold over your head.
If you're to become the next president, because one set of documents and WhatsApp chats or other digital evidence that we don't have access to right now is what was being recorded about this set of machinations by the Chinese themselves.
And how might they be inclined to use that kind of information if Mr. Biden should become president?
I think that's the crux of the issue that Bobielinsky raises.
The last question on this, and then I'll move on.
I feel like the Russian disinformation lie has been proven.
I mean, it's obviously not true.
Bobielinsky, is he?
Are people alleging he's part of the Russian disinformation campaign?
Do we have any reason to believe this guy is just a fraudster looking to pour hot oil on the beginning embers of a fire?
I have found evidence that there is a large judgment of court fees and a sort of court order judgment that Mr. Bobielinski has not yet paid against him to the tune of about $659,000.
But my understanding about Bobielinski is this is a man with his own airplane who's worth hundreds of millions of dollars and for whom that judgment.
Is in financial jargon, small potatoes.
I think that he doesn't need the publicity.
He doesn't need, he's not seeking to capitalize on this as best I can.
Can tell.
And he didn't come forward until they kept saying Russian disinformation, Russian disinformation, and the Senate conducted its hearing.
The director of national intelligence took the rare step of making a public statement to the effect that the set of allegations regarding Hunter Biden and his laptop and Mr. Bobulinsky and so forth is not the work of Russian disinformation.
It's obvious at this point.
If the media had any sort of a soul, it would report on the news, which is our job.
But of course, they don't want Biden to get hurt and they don't want Trump to win, and they are behaving accordingly.
All right.
So speaking of not wanting Trump to win, this week we found out who, quote, Anonymous was.
And James knows a lot about this because not only has he been living in Washington for a very long time, but he literally wrote the book on the Watergate era.
You're a good person to talk to about this and the reporting standards.
This guy, he came out under, quote, Anonymous in a New York Times op ed and said, you know, President Trump is dangerous.
And you guys can be assured, you people of the world, that.
I am one of the senior advisors within the administration working diligently to frustrate parts of his agenda and his worst inclinations.
And the New York Times allowed him to describe himself that way.
They described him that way.
He came out later with a book, same thing, anonymous.
And now it turns out that, like, he was basically some staffer in the Department of Homeland Security when he wrote the op ed and was really not a senior advisor.
And He's like this 33 year old wannabe to me.
And you've had everybody from CNN, Susan Hennessy, she's their national security and legal analyst, and she is no right wing defender.
Jonathan Swan of Axios, Jay Caruso of the Washington Examiner, he came out and put it well.
He said that this is 2020's Al Capone's vault.
Like there's no there there.
The only scandal here is that the New York Times allowed this guy to describe him as a senior advisor within the administration.
And now that the mask is off, there has been a collective Yawn and a bit of outrage that we've all been taken down this rabbit hole for the past year following some kid who apparently wants attention.
Your thoughts.
First, it will remain our secret, Megan, that you used a reference to Geraldo Rivera, our dear friend and colleague from Fox Newsdays, as a synonym for nothing burger.
I love him.
But that was not the highlight of this.
The Oscar Baron Vault, right.
I was shocked when the New York Times gave a space to this in the first place.
On its editorial page.
But it is again a kind of a reflection of the tempo and temper of our times that the paper of record would devote editorial page space to someone who had critical things to say about the President of the United States and alleged to have some important role in his administration, but was unwilling to disclose his name.
And I just, you know, I don't see what the journalistic value of that, I never saw the journalistic value of that.
It made for clicks and it was buzzworthy.
And again, this is a reflection of our times, but it's also an instance in which, for all the criticism of President Trump and the way he handles the news media, and of course, you have your own firsthand accounts to contribute to that literature, his enemies as well, those who wish to see him fail, have descended to certain depths of conduct that are equally unseemly, it seems to me.
And that was an example of it.
I feel like this is, I live in New York City and Every month or so, the window washers come by on the outside at great peril.
It seems like a very dangerous job.
And I feel like this would be the equivalent of one of them saying, I'm a Megyn Kelly Doug Brunt insider, and I can tell you what goes on in their.
You know, they have dinners.
Sometimes they have cocktails.
They have children running about and, like, whatever.
Like, this guy was as much of an insider to Trump's inner circle as those guys are to me in my home.
And I thought the New York Times did us all a disservice.
Before I let you go on this, though, can I just play?
Because I do think listening to the guy deny that he was, quote, anonymous on CNN.
Oh, by the way, where he's a contributor, I wonder what they're going to do now.
Because, of course, he was working against the administration from the inside when he was there.
And He lied to them on air in this interview with Anderson Cooper.
And I tell you, my people, you tell me whether you can tell this guy's a liar when Anderson asks him, Are you anonymous?
Listen.
Not bad.
There was a book by someone calling themselves anonymous.
Are you aware of who that is?
I'm not.
Look, that was a parlor game that happened in Washington, D.C., of a lot of folks trying to think of who that might be.
I've got my own thoughts about who that might be, but I want to be the president, and I certainly don't want to.
I wear a mask for two things, Anderson Halloween's and pandemics.
So, no.
Yeah, that's a lie.
Oh, so clearly a lie, right?
That's a flat out lie.
When you're asked if you have any idea who this person is, and you later tell us you were that person, you should have a very good idea of who that person is.
And to say that you don't is a lie.
My fear is that the worst sanction that will befall Miles Taylor as a result of this is A, an extension of his CNN contract, and B, an additional book contract.
Well, I mean, didn't they just hire Peter Stroke of the FBI?
So it's like, I don't think CNN's standards are all that high on who they hire as contributors.
But I'll tell you, having taken Phil Houston, the former CIA, he created their deception detection class and methods.
He was there for 25 years, half of which he spent investigating whether bad guys overseas were trying to get us, and half of which he spent trying to figure out whether our guys here in the States had turned on us.
And this guy, all my staff on the Kelly file and I took his class.
He offered it to us.
It was super fun.
By the way, you should buy his books.
By the lie, I have no stake in this.
But he talks about how deflection, right?
The guy immediately was like, this is a DC, you know, parlor game going on.
And then the second thing is, you're not.
I wear two masks, right?
If I said to you, let me try to play this game with you, James, did you rob a bank on Monday?
I want to conjure for your listeners the image of me consulting with my attorney and covering the microphone.
And now I'm returning to say, I did not, Mr. Chairman.
It's so simple.
You know, when you're telling the truth, it sounds very simple.
No, I didn't.
And then I don't go into what Phil Houston calls convincing behavior.
Like, I would never rob a bank.
I'm a good person.
The only reason I ever go into a bank is to make a deposit or withdrawal.
This guy with the, the only reason I wear masks is, I mean, if that doesn't scream liar, liar, liar, I don't know what does.
I don't watch CNN and I didn't see that loser on there.
So I missed it the first time.
But now that I look at it, I'm like, oh, God, it was obvious.
It's a flat lie, and you don't even have to go to the alleged convincing behavior.
When you say you have no idea who the person is, and later you tell us it was you, that's a lie.
Future Proofing Your Memories 00:02:43
Yeah.
But my point is, it was detectable.
If you read Phil Houston, all lies, most of them anyway, are detectable at the moment they are told.
And convincing behavior is one of them, or deflection is another.
DC parlor game, DC parlor game.
Okay, James Rosen, great to have you here.
Great to talk to you.
Thank you, Megan.
Great to hear your voice again.
See you soon.
And our thanks to James Rosen for being here.
In one second, we're going to be joined by Kim Klasik.
I am so excited for her.
She's running for Congress down in Maryland, and she is the one who got all over the view, in particular, Joy Behar.
And Sonny Hostin, remember she brought up Joy's black face and Sonny tried to shout her down about the black community.
And Kim was like, oh no.
Anyway, it was a great viral moment.
And she's raising money like nobody's business, saying the GOP should be competing for the black vote in places like Baltimore and other places.
And she's got some good insights.
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Blackface and Republican Strategy 00:14:42
Okay, and now Kim Klasik.
Kim is a 38 year old wife, mother of a four year old child, Maryland native, and She has spent the past several years helping underserved women to become financially independent.
She runs a nonprofit and she is trying to do the impossible, folks, which is take over a seat that has not been held by a Republican in 57 years.
Kim, thank you for being here.
Thanks for having me.
I appreciate it.
This was Elijah Cummings' old seat and it's never been held by a Republican.
So, what makes you think, why not me?
Yeah.
Well, you know, it all started about, I guess it was July 2019.
I don't know if you recall, but I had posted some videos online of the trash and the blight in Baltimore.
The president saw it and retweeted it.
And then it came out as like a tweet storm between himself and the late Congressman Cummings.
And so from there, I think it started to really open up, I guess, a can of worms.
And our local newspaper actually did some investigation.
And they're as liberal as can be.
But they said, look, you know, if you live in certain neighborhoods in Baltimore City, Your trash is not collected.
And if it is, it's collected 5% of the time versus other neighborhoods where it's collected 100% of the times, no matter how much you call.
And so I think that's what a lot of people in the neighborhoods were starting to feel.
And that is specifically in West Baltimore, where you see it in my campaign ad.
But yeah, so I kind of really started to take a look at what was going on.
It was clearly something with local leadership.
And then when they went before city council to talk about the fact that this is the Department of Public Works, they said, look, we need more money to be able to.
To pick up the trash.
And so, you know, it was interesting because after President Trump did his tweet storm and put their feet to the fire, they actually ended up going from 77,000 open sanitation cases.
To 260 without any additional funding.
So, what that meant to me was they have the funding, they're just not getting it done.
So, um, they can do it if they want to.
Well, this turned into a big, I mean, you really did have a massive impact.
I remember that video, and I lived in Baltimore for a couple of years, right down on Fells Point, like in the city.
Okay, and I know exactly what you mean.
If you live down in that area, one little area is good, and the next street over is very dangerous.
And you know, West Baltimore is very dicey in parts, and there's some gang activity, and so on and so forth.
So, You know, they're between the crime and the trash.
By the way, New York City is heading the same way.
You went down there to actually show people look, this is a problem.
And this is a Democrat run city, has been for a very long time, both locally and at the federal level.
And something ought to be done.
And you showed some of the infestation down there with rats and rodents, which, by the way, I also experienced firsthand.
We lived in that particular home for one year.
And in that one year alone, just one year, I personally killed 21 mice.
Oh my gosh.
I found out they like peanut butter better than cheese, just FYI.
Life's lessons.
So Trump takes notice of this and he tweets it out and he calls Baltimore an infested mess, infested with rats and rodents.
And this was one of the, and he got in a back and forth with Elijah Cummins, who said, come down here, Cummings.
And, you know, you insulted my town.
And, you know, Trump's like, look at the videotape, right?
All these people who are Trump critics are like, racist.
He's a racist.
He called Baltimore infested.
And I'm like, Don't they see what happened here?
A black woman who is from Maryland in Baltimore County, if not the city, went there and did actual reporting with videotape.
She showed us what was there, and then President Trump picked up on it.
What was your reaction when people responded to him that way?
Yeah.
So, of course, at first I was thinking this is such fake news because I knew what President Trump had tweeted out was actually verbatim of the young woman that I interviewed on the street when she was telling me about it.
And this is a black woman.
You know, our former mayor, Mayor Pugh, she said the same exact things.
Bernie Sanders came to town during the 2015 riots, called it a third world country.
So all of these Democrats have said, you know, similar stuff.
But as soon as it was President Trump, even though it wasn't his words, yeah, they called him a racist and a white supremacist and all those words that we don't seem to know the meaning to.
But no, so, you know, I thought, okay, well, you know, I'm going to keep going forward.
And, you know, in that amount of time, Um, I think, gosh, Congressman Elijah Cummings passed away in October of 2019.
Um, and then you know, people started throwing their hat in the ring.
We had 24 Democrats that threw it in on their side, seven Republicans.
And I thought, you know what, if I'm already out here doing this, why don't I just give it a shot?
Wow, I think that's great.
And and I know Trump retweeted something about you, and the coffers got filled with millions and millions of dollars a lot more than other local Republicans have gotten.
So it's it's good for you, although.
The polls are not so good for you.
I mean, like the independent analysis is you're gonna, you're gonna, it's not gonna go well because the other guy had 75% support in the special election and he's the former president of the NAACP.
And there's, you know, because it's never been held by a Republican.
That's really it.
It's like, how can you, how can you fight City Hall?
But what do you think?
I mean, does that get you down?
Do you see that realistically or how are you feeling about it?
No.
So, you know, at this point, I've been running for office for an entire year, right?
We've had four elections in this year because of the special and then the general.
And for, You know, us, we've been polling a little bit higher.
He's actually swinging a little lower.
And we've raised a total of $7.3 million compared to, I think he's right under $1 million.
So we've been doing a lot of advertising, a lot of digital.
I mean, I feel like I film a commercial every day at this point.
But, you know, we're out there.
And I've been meeting with local leaders, local pastors, which you know is not something typically a Republican's able to do.
So we sat down with a group of pastors and they're like, look, we know your opponent.
He was in office since 1987 to 1996 before Congressman Cummings took over, and he did not deliver on his promises and we're open to other options.
So we've just been meeting with people, talking.
We go door to door seven days a week.
We registered voters five days a week.
We end up registering, I think it was over 650 people in West Baltimore alone, which is interesting because they have like the most to gain and the most to lose.
But I did talk about, like, in my RNC convention speech, you know, Republicans have to do better at getting out there and, you know, going in these areas, especially the inner cities where you think that people only vote down ballot for Democrats.
Because I feel like we're leaving the ballot.
Have they given up on the black vote?
Right.
It's clear that most black voters vote Democrat.
This is one of Candace Owens' big things, which is like, Blex it.
You know, stop doing that.
Assess these candidates individually and figure out whether it's working for you.
And you're, you know, in a way saying the same thing, which is, you, Go court the black vote.
You're saying it on the other side to the Republicans.
Go court the black vote, work for it, earn it.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I even tell people, you know, even if it is, you know, you want to be a Democrat and that's where you feel you align, when you have that one party mob rule, you know, they completely take your vote for granted and they never get anything done or accomplished because they know you're going to continue to vote for them.
So we just, you know, try to open people's minds, you know, this entire campaign trail.
And we think it's paying off a little bit.
Like I said, we're swinging up, he's swinging down.
And I think we're fairly close.
I have to say, I've been sort of appalled at the way I've seen you get treated.
If you were a Democrat, of course, you'd be celebrated at every turn, right?
A young black woman who's been helping the underprivileged deciding to run for office, a young mom.
But because you have an R after your name instead of a D, you get maligned, unfairly maligned.
And one of the examples that jumped out to me was this Maryland Matters, which is trying to help the Dems.
And here's the quote, Kim they're talking about the money that you earn, saying it must be the envy of Republican candidates from coast to coast.
And here's the quote.
But is that the best use of GOP donors' money?
Or does it just make Trump partisans feel good to support a camera ready Black woman who employs rhetoric reminiscent of the president's?
You know what?
I read that same article and that's where I was like, really?
Camera ready Black woman?
I mean, that is so offensive.
Yeah, but no one says anything about it.
You're right.
No one seems to care when you're a Republican, unfortunately.
That's exactly right.
Can I tell you, sexism against Republican women and racism against Black Republicans?
Is considered okay by the left.
Those are the two things the woke left doesn't care.
Yep, absolutely.
And it's, you know, I guess at this point, you know, I've been doing it so long now that it doesn't phase me as much.
But I mean, it is quite ridiculous.
You see, you know, AOC is on the cover of Vanity Fair.
And here I am being crucified just because I don't align with the Democrat Party.
And that came to a front on The View, right?
That was like, that's where I think a lot of the nation first came to see you and know you.
And of course, I'm not a big fan of the ladies on The View.
I'm just not.
I just think it's like, it's just so nasty and toxic on that set.
I could feel it from my home couch.
So, but you're running for office, so you got to go make the round.
So you go on The View, and they're all over you, trying to get you to condemn Trump and say bad things about Trump.
And you were not there for it.
Okay, so here's the clip it's you, Joy Behar, and Sonny Hostin jumps in.
Let's listen.
Come on, Kim.
Excuse me, I have to say something to you.
He told Bob Woodward that it was a very serious issue and it's airborne and that it was terrible.
And then he went out and told the American people don't wear masks, it's all going to go away.
You have to put some blame on your president.
I'm sorry.
You're putting it on something extraneous here.
Talk to the point, please.
Is this Joy speaking for the same Joy?
The same Joy that paraded around in blackface not too long ago?
Come on, Joy.
I don't think you should be asking these questions.
I am black in America.
Excuse me.
The black community had my back.
They know that that was not a surprise.
That was an homage.
Oh, please.
The black community has my back.
The black community has your back.
The black community has your back.
They do.
Sonny, the black community did not vote for you.
The black community did not vote for you.
What planet were you living on?
It was during a special election.
Sonny, can I speak?
What planet were you living on?
It was during a special election while we were still under lockdown and I could not talk to people.
Can I speak or are you just going to scream over me?
This becomes a big.
Listen, Kim, good luck to you.
Thanks to Kim Classic.
That was very immature, but thank you for having me.
Unbelievable.
There's so much going on for me in that clip.
I mean, a lot is going on for obvious reasons, but I'm.
I find it infuriating.
And I thought your tweet afterward was great.
It was something to the effect of what's up with the silencing of Black voices?
I thought we were all about letting Black people be heard, except go to exception number one, unless they're Republicans.
Yeah, absolutely.
And this is at a time where, I don't know if you remember the trend, win with Black women, that hashtag.
This is when this was all going on.
So Black women running for office was supposed to be this great thing.
But again, I'm a Republican.
But yeah, that was interesting to me.
I had Joy Behar trying to explain to me that the Black community had her back.
You know, I am a Black woman.
I'm like, no, I'm definitely, you know, I'm a part of this Black community that you're talking about, but I definitely didn't have your back.
And it was interesting because there were a lot of people that were on Twitter that said, you know, Joy, what you said wasn't right because, you know, you've accused other people of Black faiths or, you know, even just talking about Black faiths and you would always condemn them.
So, you know, for her to say it was an homage, it was interesting.
To me, that was such crazy town because you, I love that you brought it up because, of course, we saw Don Jr. bring it up one time.
And other than that, you were, I think you were the only two people to ever raise that with her.
And she's gotten away with it scot free, even though she wore blackface on Halloween.
And she celebrated it on the air with ABC's blessing as recently as 2016.
She put up the picture, her producers, the executives, her co hosts were fine with it.
She put it up there and it was like, there's me wearing blackface to celebrate.
You know, I went as a beautiful African woman.
And now she says it's not blackface.
And Whoopi Goldberg was like, that wasn't blackface.
She said that when Don Jr. brought it up.
It's like, well, she tinted her skin to look like an African American woman.
So what the hell is blackface?
I mean, like, I can't keep it straight, Kim.
You know, like, and then Joy was like, it was an homage.
In other words, if you mean to honor, it shouldn't be problematic, which is exactly the question I was trying to ask over on NBC when all help broke loose.
So I just loved that you had the guts to bring it up.
Thank you.
And that is the first thing I thought about was when you were just asking, could people do that for Halloween?
And they crucified you.
And I'm like, and here he is, she is, she's just defending it.
And then you have Sonny screaming over me.
But it was interesting because the question that she was asking, I had literally just answered it three minutes prior before the commercial break.
And she just didn't like the answer.
So she got hostile.
And, you know, I told my mom before going on there, I wasn't going to say anything mean, I wasn't going to get in a fight, but I just felt like they kept pressing me.
And this was my one shot, really, to reach the other side of the aisles audience.
Because, you know, I'm not able to go on CNN or MSNBC.
They never allow me to come on.
So I felt, you know what?
I definitely have to go and I have to make sure.
I reached that other audience if I'm going to flip a plus 26 Democratic district.
Well, and can I tell you, it's not like you went on there and just started launching bombs at everybody.
She was all over you.
She was nasty.
She confronted you in a hostile, nasty way, and she drew first blood.
So you were well within your rights to punch her right back.
And the contempt for you that was oozing from Sonny Hostin, contempt.
She clearly loathed you in your position and wasn't afraid to show it.
And my thinking is, then why have her on?
Why, if I load the guests like that, I wouldn't invite them on.
I would know it would be a bad interview that would make me look bad.
Did you feel the same, like the way she tried to explain to you how the Black community feels about you?
ZipRecruiter Hiring Solutions 00:06:27
Yeah.
So I personally, after getting more facts from it, I think it was a total setup.
I think I know they said Meghan McCain said I was her guest, but I don't think that was true because I later found out that Sonny was childhood friends with our former mayor here in Baltimore.
Stephanie Rawlings Blake.
They grew up together.
And so I thought, this is interesting, right?
Because she really, I've never spoken to Sunny ever before, never tweeted at her.
I don't know anything really about her.
And so, you know, when I learned that information after the fact, I was like, okay, this makes more sense.
You know, here I am starting to creep up in the polls.
Here I am starting to make a heck of a lot more money.
And they see that.
And I think it was really an attack to try to get me completely out of the race.
That is exactly right.
Can I tell you something?
A story early in my career, I don't know.
I think I was a young anchor at Fox and I started to get attacked by the media.
And when it first starts happening, you're it's a little jarring.
You're like, what did I do?
Why do so many people suddenly dislike me?
I don't understand.
And I went to a party at Rush Limbaugh's house down in Palm Beach.
He was celebrating, I think, like 25 or 30 years on the air throughout this big bash.
And there were a bunch of us there.
And I was talking to him about it.
I was pretty green.
And he said, MK.
It's because you're effective.
If you weren't effective, they would ignore you.
And Kim, I say the same thing to you.
You're a threat because you're so effective in your messaging, the way you talk about these issues.
They know it's persuasive.
And I think they find it scary.
And that makes you the enemy who has to be stopped.
Well, thank you.
Thank you.
I appreciate that.
And I hope that our message is resonating.
But I guess we'll see.
It's just interesting to me because the people that hate me the most don't live in these dangerous areas of Baltimore.
You know, a lot of them are usually white women or women that are completely, you know, not even attached to the situation.
And I just can't understand it.
I'm just like, you know, let me help the predominantly black neighborhoods in Baltimore that have been neglected by the Democrat leadership and let me move on with my life.
No, don't you understand that it's my neighbors up here on the Upper West Side of Manhattan, my white liberal neighbors who know better?
I don't, how have you not picked that up yet?
I don't, hello?
All right.
So what's going to happen now?
What do you think is going to happen for Donald Trump next week?
Because, I mean, look, as much as he has tried to reach out for some black vote and contends that he's going to win it, and, you know, black unemployment was at record lows prior to COVID, we all know that the black vote is overwhelmingly going to go to Joe Biden.
You ain't black if you don't support Joe Biden.
That's another lesson that you should take from the white population.
So, what do you actually think is going to happen on Tuesday, separate and apart from what you want?
Yeah, so I think President Trump is going to win.
I think that comment Joe Biden made about fracking is going to hurt him in Pennsylvania.
I was in Arizona not too long ago.
I know people keep saying it's a purple state, but I do believe it's going to go towards Trump.
And I think, you know, if he gets across in Florida, like I think he will.
And I know Maryland's a very blue state, but when we're out there knocking doors, we say, look, let's just be honest.
President Trump is offering the $500 billion to invest in opportunity zones.
He did the criminal justice reform and HBCUs.
And I tell people, Joe Biden hasn't offered a single thing.
So if you want to bet the vote in your best interest, you would vote Clay Sick Trump.
And I think some people are starting to see that.
If it doesn't work out for you on Tuesday, because the odds are so stacked against you, but you have made a national name for yourself, so clearly there's a lot of support for you and your future.
What else would you like to do?
Could you see yourself if Trump wins the second term joining the administration?
Yeah.
So, I, you probably already know Jerron Smith over there.
We've talked about it.
He said, you know, if Trump gets back in, you know, it might be worth trying to figure something out because he's talking about bringing manufacturing back to Baltimore City.
And that's my big push, you know, right through the Baltimore City port.
We're not utilizing it.
You know, we used to be a manufacturing powerhouse.
We could do on the job paid training.
It's so easy, so simple.
And I think he definitely wants to do that.
So, if I don't win by any chance, I will hopefully still be in Baltimore and implementing just higher paying jobs to get people through this crime, the violence, the poor education, everything that it's been played with.
Well, it's very clear you're at the beginning of a superstar career, and I'm looking forward to watching it.
All the best to you, Kim.
Good luck.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
And our thanks again to Kim Klasik.
She was amazing.
Up in a minute, we're going to be joined by Democrat Doug Schoen, who's got the latest on the polls and whether we should trust them.
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And now we're going to get to our guests in one second, but I have to bring you this feature, which we love here at the Megan Kelly Show, called Sound Up.
And this is where we're going to play you a couple of sound bites that have made the news or that have struck our notice that we thought. were kind of interesting or funny or that we had a reaction to.
Iowa Polls and Barrett Impact 00:15:44
And this one is the reactions to Amy Coney Barrett being confirmed as the fifth woman to ever serve on the U.S. Supreme Court.
As you know, she got through this week, 52 to 48, partisan lines, but she is officially a Supreme Court Associate Justice.
And people on the left are not happy about it.
Now, can I tell you something?
I think I've said this before.
If I were the president, I would be picking jurists who are more along the originalist line of thinking, like Amy Coney Barrett, like Scalia.
I I loved Scalia.
It doesn't necessarily mean I'm totally aligned with them politically, but as a jurist, that's the way I think about the law.
Nonetheless, had I been a senator, I would have voted for Ruth Bader Ginsburg, for Elena Kagan, and for Sonia Sotomayor.
Totally.
Totally qualified, amazing, brilliant jurists.
And the way our system works is the sitting president gets to appoint the justice and the Senate confirms or doesn't confirm, but historically has always confirmed unless you're really a hot mess or totally unqualified.
You remember GWB had to withdraw Harriet Myers because people were like, oh no.
Okay, so anyway, not everybody feels the way I do.
And some of the sound in reaction to Amy Coney Barrett has been hysterical and actually makes me wonder about the strength of our country.
Here's just the one because I love listening to this woman who, when she found out that RBG had died, Totally lost it.
Remember this lady?
Holy fucking shit, you guys!
I'm driving in a car, but I just got a notification that Ruth Bader Ginsburg died!
Fuck!
Could this year get any fucking worse?
She's very angry.
And then she goes on to say, like, Ruth, you only had to make it to 2021!
As though her dying was like a punitive response to something someone on the left. Had said, you know, as though Ruth didn't realize she needed to hold on longer.
If only she had spoken to this woman.
It's just, people have lost their minds.
So now, not surprisingly, we get more hysterical reaction to the fact that Coney Barrett has been confirmed.
I give you this woman in a bathtub.
And if you can see this, if you see the soundbite online, she's made cuts to it.
She's clearly tried to produce it for maximum effect.
But what she wants you to believe is that she's absolutely.
Devastated, and you just happen to catch her on camera in the bathtub saying the following Don't mind me, I'm in the bath.
But while I'm in here, I got a notification that Amy Coney Barrett was officially confirmed to the Supreme Court.
I didn't think I would be this affected by it.
But I'm scared.
I'm scared for me, other women, people who need help.
Everyone except white men.
So, um, please vote next week.
Let's try to do something.
All right.
Sister, you need to get it together.
You cannot let any politician or Supreme Court justice affect your life like that.
Only white men are the only ones who Amy Coney Barrett will support in her rulings from the bench.
That's.
Absurd.
It's idiocy.
And the way you know that this was all a performance is that she kept it in that sotto voce the whole time.
She kept it rolling.
People, when they're normally upset, don't sound like that.
They don't talk like that.
And they don't whip out an iPhone in the bathtub for maximum effect.
And they don't have cuts to their video so they can restart their tears.
So I don't know what sort of performance art this is, but I reject it.
And I don't want to say she's in third place, this last gal, because I think they're all kind of tied for first.
Although, no, to be truthful, that first lady with the foul mouth is my favorite.
But here's the third condemning all.
All life with a uterus as a result of this.
Why did I have to have a freaking uterus?
I mean, like, are you worried for our country?
Are you as worried as I am?
This cannot be the next generation of strong women.
It cannot.
Let's remember Kim Klasik.
Let's go back to Kim.
Strong and not a snowflake.
She's screaming into her pillow, this woman.
Why did I have to have a uterus?
As though Roe versus Wade has been thrown out and every state in the union has.
Ruled abortion illegal and unconstitutional.
Do people do any studying to understand how that would have to happen?
How many?
Insanely huge things would have to happen before that would happen.
I mean, honestly, they're looking at Amy Coney Barrett like she's the Antichrist.
It's ridiculous.
And people need to grow up and do their homework.
Anyway, okay, I just thought we'd take that little trip down Insanity Lane together.
And now for some sanity and a trip back to Earth, Doug Schoen.
Joining us now is one of my favorites from my Fox News days, pollster Doug Schoen.
He's a Democrat.
He is A Harvard grad, a Harvard law grad, and an Oxford grad.
So, a super smart guy and also super sweet one.
Doug, thank you so much for being here.
Megan, thanks for a very kind introduction.
I'm pleased to be here.
Here's what we all want to know You're a Democrat, Democrat pollster.
You've always been fair.
You're one of those clear eyed guys who can see it no matter what you want.
You can see what's likely.
And what do you think is likely to happen here on Tuesday?
Sure.
I think we're going to see Joe Biden win the presidency.
I think it'll be somewhat closer than.
Many of the analysts are saying, and some of the polls are saying.
But I think it'll be a five or six point Biden victory as we're sitting here today.
And the real question in my mind is does he win states like Florida, North Carolina, Arizona, and indeed Pennsylvania?
And if he does, he really runs the table electorally.
If not, it could be much closer and come down to the Midwestern states of Michigan and Wisconsin again.
Why do you think he's going to win?
Given that we know there's some percentage of shy Trump voters out there.
And if you look at the average, the real clear of politics average of the battleground poll states, states that they poll, Florida, Pennsylvania, Ohio, and others, he is ahead of Trump.
Joe Biden's ahead of Trump, but he's ahead of Trump less than Hillary Clinton was this time around.
And we all know she lost.
So what's different?
Well, what's different is Wisconsin and Michigan.
I think Michigan is seven or eight points, Wisconsin.
Five or six points.
Those are outside the margin of error.
So that's one difference.
The other difference is that there has been no erosion in Biden's lead nationally.
Hillary, as we both know, was sinking because of the Comey letter, because of the Trump surge, whatever, in 2016.
But the polling now has Biden ahead by seven or eight points.
And of course, you're right, much of that is because of the solid blue states on both coasts.
But I think.
It's going to be tough for Trump to win the solid Midwest as he did before.
Though, again, you're right to point out that it's within the realm of possibility, but I think more unlikely than four years ago.
Okay, but is it true?
And I get upset when people make me do math.
So, whenever we start to talk about specific electoral votes, my head gets a little fuzzy.
But is it true that Trump can lose Michigan and Wisconsin, where he does appear to be polling behind?
Those were huge wins for him last time.
He can lose both of those and still win the presidency as long as he holds on to every other state he won the last time, including the two others that are potentially in jeopardy right now, like Georgia and Iowa.
You know, it's theoretically true, but practically unlikely to happen.
Why?
I mean, because if he lost Michigan and Wisconsin, where he still got a chance, he would just have to hold his entire remaining coalition.
Yeah, I've looked at every poll in every state, as you can imagine.
And there are enough states that are in play for Biden that while it's probably statistically true, with Georgia in play, with North Carolina in play, with Florida in play, with Ohio in play, with Iowa in play.
It's unlikely that all of those are going to go to Trump unless all the polling is really wrong.
And I guess it could be, and it's theoretically possible, but I think, Megan, quite unlikely.
What do you make of Trafalgar?
It's the one polling outlet that's saying Trump's going to win.
He's big on the Trump shy voter.
He looks at things like whether you have a fishing or a hunting license to figure out the likelihood of you actually voting and who you're going to vote for.
And he called a couple of these states.
He wasn't full time into polling last time around, but he called some of these surprise states like Pennsylvania for Trump last time around when nobody else was.
And he's sitting back now saying, I'm telling you, he's going to win.
You know, Megan, it will be a big surprise to me.
I have looked at, as I said, every poll, and I do believe that many of them overstate Biden's lead, and many by a substantial margin.
But in a lot of states like Pennsylvania, the Midwest, and the like, Trafalgar is picking up a tie or a Trump lead where other players are showing a five or six point Biden lead.
So I'm very surprised if he's right.
And if he is, maybe I'll have to take lessons from the.
You're going to try to go hire him.
Or maybe get hired by him, Megan.
Right, right.
So let me ask you about a couple of these competitive states like Iowa, right?
Trump won Iowa by 9.5%.
Points last time around.
I mean, pretty handily.
And he won Georgia by 5.1 points.
Easy wins.
Texas, he won by nine points last time around.
Those should be red, I guess, by all intents and purposes.
You would assume those would go red.
Iowa, they say, is very competitive right now because Trump's tariff war with China has led to a collapse in part in the soybean market.
And that's hurt farmers in Iowa.
And He's been campaigning in Iowa and he's been campaigning in Georgia, Trump has.
So it's not just speculation that he's vulnerable there.
He knows it too.
You can always tell where they know they're vulnerable or what they think they might get that others don't by where they're spending their most valuable resource time.
But do you think there's a realistic chance he could lose those two states that he won by such a healthy margin and even Texas, which has just been moved by, I think, Cook to toss up from leaning right?
Look, I think it is, again, within the realm of possibility that Trump would lose one of those three Georgia, Iowa, Texas, potentially even Ohio, which is very close as well.
It's possible.
I mean, I've looked, as you can imagine, at the Texas numbers, I've looked at Iowa, Ohio, and Georgia, and I think it is, you know.
Within the realm of reason, because of one reason.
We haven't talked about it, but I think there's one big difference, which is coronavirus.
And Trump's ratings on handling coronavirus are very, very negative.
And I think, but for that, he would probably be reelected easily.
And each of those four or five states, I think, would go to Trump, but for the outbreak of the virus and the second or third wave, whatever you call it, that's happening right now.
Yeah, he cannot lose Texas.
Texas has got the second most electoral college votes in the union.
California's first at 55.
Texas is second at 38.
Florida and New York are tied for third place at 29.
And then comes Pennsylvania at 20.
But he can't lose Texas.
That is absolutely correct.
And, uh, Again, I don't think he would be in play in Texas in the way that the polling now suggests, but for the real outbreak in the state, which has, particularly in West Texas and El Paso, created huge, huge problems.
What do you think about Arizona?
Biden is shown to be up there by about 2.4 percentage points over Trump.
Clinton at this point was up 1.5 percentage points over Trump, and Trump won it by 3.5.
It's so crazy when you look back at how wrong these polls were.
But Biden's showing up.
I think Arizona's going to be quite close.
I mean, there had been polling earlier that showed Biden with a bigger lead, five or six points, which I always discounted.
And I guess as I sit here today, I think Arizona is either 50 50 or probably likely to go to Trump.
But again, it's another state that's in play that he really.
Should anticipate winning, and you add that into the other ones we were just talking about, and it suggests the magnitude of the problem he has in terms of the electoral college.
He's going there.
He's going to Trump's going over the next few days, is where Trump's going, according to their schedule now Arizona, Florida, Pennsylvania, Maine, North Carolina, Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota, that sort of Midwestern area.
I mean, like all those that sort of old Democrat firewall, right?
Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, he wants all of them again.
And now he wants Minnesota too, which is the one that went blue last time that the Trump campaign thinks it's got a chance of turning red.
Do you agree?
Yeah, I thought initially they did the polling out of Minnesota that I've seen suggests that Biden has a pretty comfortable seven or eight point lead.
So I think that's unlikely.
But if you look at that travel schedule and the analysis you used, which is if they're going there, they've got problems, it suggests that Trump sees.
That even in states that he needs to win, that he is counting on, like Arizona, Florida, North Carolina, Georgia, Iowa, and the like, he's going to visit in the waning days of the campaign because he knows his base is not yet solid.
Meanwhile, Joe Biden's barely traveling at all.
He's like, Yeah, and that's what he's doing.
He's in his basement, in his bean bag.
Like, this is so comfy, and no one seems to think I'm going to lose.
No, he is getting out there.
He's going to Pennsylvania, of course, Florida, of course.
Course, and he is making a play in Iowa.
He wants Wisconsin to come back Democrat again.
Remember, Hillary Clinton never visited Wisconsin.
Well, Joe Biden doesn't want to make the same mistake.
And he's going to Georgia, which the Biden campaign thinks he can win, not to mention Delaware, which, okay, fine.
Biden's Election Day Rallies 00:14:44
That's a waste of time.
But can I ask you about crowd size and all that?
Because you've seen the Trump rallies, they're insane.
The amount of enthusiasm is out of control on Trump's side when you look at the rallies.
The Joe Biden, I mean, I'm sorry, Doug.
He did an event in Georgia this week.
I had to tweet out about it.
It had the little white circles for everyone to stand individually, surrounded by six feet in all directions.
I think there were 18 people there.
I definitely could have counted them on my hands.
He slowly walked down the stairs to a smattering of applause and took this.
It was just sad.
I'm like, okay, they rip on the Trump campaign for having these massive rallies where no one's wearing masks in the age of corona, where we're seeing spikes.
And they, in an effort to overcorrect, they've taken out all the people and all the fun.
Yeah, here's what I would tell you 40 to 45% of the people who say they're voting for Biden say they're voting against Trump.
So, as I sit here today, the Biden strategy is basically to be as inoffensive as possible and to avoid any sort of controversy, certainly to just avoid discussing any of the controversies concerning his family business and Hunter Biden at all, because he is basically, as we used to say in the law,
and I know in the distant past you were a successful lawyer yourself, Biden is sort of the remainder man here.
For those who are dissatisfied with Trump and with a negative job approval now, Biden's strategy is basically to say, I'm not Trump.
And so far, it appears to be working.
So do no harm.
He doesn't need to show enthusiastic crowds.
Make no waves.
Well, he made none, absolutely none.
No, I don't think anybody on earth saw him besides those 18 people who were there.
But I also do remember watching Mitt Romney in 2012 with massive, massive crowds thinking, oh my God, like that's.
It's insane.
Like, I know the polls are saying he's behind, but look at those crowds.
And experts like you would come on and say, you can't go by the crowd size.
You know, and then that's what I was thinking in 2016.
Like, all the smart people have told me you can't go by the crowd size.
And then that was wrong.
That turns out to be wrong.
So I think all of us, everyone I know, Doug, I mean, is it the same for you?
They want to know what you think.
They want to know how certain you are.
And they're really struggling to put a bet down because, in terms of who will actually win, because they're so rattled.
By 2016's results.
And my take, as I said, is much closer election than people suggest.
I think it is likely that most of the red leaning states from 2016 will stay red.
Pennsylvania, very much in play.
It's about four or five points within the margin of error for Biden.
The rest of the Midwest is, you know, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Michigan, leaning strongly.
To Biden, but not out of the woods.
So, my bets are on Biden, but I don't think we can put this to rest just yet.
And I think your questions and your concerns are all fair and reasonable ones.
What's the very first thing you're going to be looking for on election night?
Like, what are the early signs that might be harbingers of things to come that night?
I'm going to look at Florida.
If we get a win in Florida for Joe Biden, the election's over.
It's not a matter about counts or difficulties.
And the reason I say that and urge your listeners to do something.
Similar is it's a state that's within two or three points now.
It's effectively a statistical tie.
They count the early ballots with the votes on election day.
So we should have a very good sense pretty early on how Florida is going.
And this is one of those elections.
How goes Florida will tell us how the country goes.
Yeah.
If Trump loses Florida, he's done.
That's the end of that.
Can I ask you about early and mail in voting?
Sure.
Have you been watching that?
And do you see, have you gleaned anything from it in terms of trends?
You know, I have been watching it and I've been looking obsessively, as many of us in my profession do.
And the candid and honest answer is I have not gleaned anything from it that gives me any sort of dispositive sense as to how the election is going.
We simply don't know who's going to show up between now and election day and early voting, and most importantly, how many people are going to vote on election day.
So I don't have any clear sense, but for those commentators who say, oh, the early voting says the Democrats are well ahead, I don't think the evidence suggests that.
It doesn't say that to me.
Does that tell you anything about enthusiasm?
Right?
Because one of the narratives of the whole campaign has been Trump's voters are hugely enthusiastic for him.
Biden's voters really aren't, but they may be hugely enthusiastic against Trump.
But does negative enthusiasm work as well as positive enthusiasm in getting somebody to the polls?
You know, it's certainly the case that the Trump voters are more enthusiastic than the Biden voters.
I don't think there's any doubt about that.
Whether that enthusiasm translates on election day to a huge turnout among the 45, 50% of the electorate that hasn't voted.
That's the big question.
And certainly possible if people like Trafalgar are right, we will see a burst of enthusiasm that's not being picked up by the polls the mainstream media is reporting.
Do you worry as a Democrat about the effect coronavirus is going to have on Tuesday?
Because I've heard some folks say a lot of the Republicans who love Trump, you know, you can see at the rallies, they don't really care.
They're going to stand in the line with or without a mask and they will vote for that man.
Democrats might say, I like my man, but it's dangerous and I'm on the older side and I'm sure somebody else has got this.
Well, I think that's certainly possible.
I mean, if we're talking again about states like Florida and Pennsylvania, North Carolina, Georgia, Arizona, where we're down to one or 2% difference between the two candidates, that could indeed make a difference.
It's just one of those things that it's very, very hard to tell in advance.
But again, it's clear there's an enthusiasm gap for Trump, and it's clear that his voters will probably be more fearless than the Biden voters.
I remember talking to Brad Pascal, Trump's first campaign manager who got fired and Bill Stepien replaced him two months ago.
And I talked to Brad after Trump won in 16.
And it was fascinating, Doug.
And he was talking for the first time about how he knew he was going to win.
And unlike everybody now who says, I knew it, I knew it, he really knew it.
He's on record with a bunch of people I know as having predicted the win.
And I'm, of course, saying, how did you know that?
Every single poll said he was going to lose.
And he was watching the merchandise go off of the Trump website and where certain Facebook posts would go viral.
Like who's buying all the MAGA hats and who is circulating the most posts that the Trump campaign will put up?
And then they would go to those places and just flood the field, you know, just get as many advertisements and get out the vote efforts as possible.
So they had this, I thought, unique way of going about it.
Now, Brad has been fired, and I don't know whether they're still using those same methods, but I do wonder if you think get out the vote efforts, I mean, does it all come down to each campaign's ability, you know, to knock on the doors and get the people in the caravan and give them lemonade while they stand there or hot chocolate?
You know, Like we've been, I don't know, just sort of sitting around musing for two years.
And really, if you don't have the caravan take the people to the polling station, you're out of luck.
So you tell me how that's going to make or break each side.
I would say this first, this year, there is not the degree of negativity towards Joe Biden that there was towards Hillary.
Second, the Democrats have a huge financial advantage over Trump, even bigger than Hillary's advantage over Trump.
And third, the Democrats have put a lot of money into GOTV.
Now, that being said, the Trump digital effort in 2016 was extraordinary.
It's still very, very high quality and high powered.
So, again, I think it's fair to say that we're going to see.
A better GOTV or a more persuasive GOTV for Trump on election day than the Democrats have.
And it's anyone's guess how much of the early vote margin will be closed.
But I think it'll be closed very substantially in the election.
Again, having a narrow Biden advantage will be tighter than the polls that some media outlets have reported that show close to or in excess of double digits.
Yeah.
Go TV or you get out the vote.
I mean, that's the name of the game right now.
But I will say, going out on the set last year or four years ago, I guess, to talk about what was going to happen as the results were coming in, I remember that it was like the New York Times had some huge percentage or like 88% chance that Donald Trump wins.
And 538 had 86% of Hillary Clinton winning.
I'm sorry, reverse that.
Yeah, both saying Hillary Clinton.
Right.
And now they're saying Biden has about that same chance of beating him this time.
So I'm like, you told me that story before.
So let me ask you this before I let you go.
Sure.
One of the things we've been talking about is the Hunter Biden news to the extent it's gotten covered, but there's been a fair amount of news on the past couple of days.
I know you just written a book on China and Russia and how they're growing and becoming these giants.
And we're kind of going the opposite direction.
What's the name of your book?
The name of the book is The End of Democracy.
And in this election, Megan, We've seen very, very little attention, if at all, to foreign policy.
The concern about the end of democracy has been more here at home, the fighting between the two parties.
But curiously, I think that benefits Joe Biden because the Hunter Biden scandal is one that has not gotten much attention in the mainstream media.
We're not talking about China.
We're not talking to a great extent about Russia or Ukraine.
And I think that benefits Biden given what the emails appear to suggest about.
Again, what could well have gone on.
I don't know that they've been verified, but I do know that what I've read does not augur well for Biden if they're accurate.
The end of democracy.
Now, you know, if Trump wins, that's what the Democrats are going to say this is that the country's over.
There's no getting it back.
The sad thing is, if the Democrats win, I think the Republicans will say something similar.
We have a crisis with our democracy.
You and I have talked in the past.
About the need for unity, coming together, and common purpose.
And what I argue is in my book, The End of Democracy, is whether it be at home or overseas, we don't have common purpose.
We don't have an American ideal and values that we articulate.
And thus we're losing.
And I worry both domestically with coronavirus and our economy and globally, our influence is retreating.
We're getting weaker.
And I think that's a huge issue that you and many other very influential commentators will be dealing with after November 3rd.
When I think back on those unity discussions and I think, weren't we so cute?
We were adorable, like thinking it might be possible.
I like to think it still is possible, Doug.
I like to think so too.
And people of goodwill have to come together, Megan, as you've always tried to do with people.
And you've been a lonely voice out there trying to bring sanity to our dialogue and discourse.
Wow.
Well, thank you for the assistance in the effort.
Great to talk to you, Doug.
Great.
Thank you so much, Megan.
Greatly appreciate it.
Our thanks to James Rosen and Kim Klasick and Doug Schoen.
Now we're just a couple of days from actually knowing the answer.
We hope, right?
I don't.
Think it's going to drag on forever.
I just, I feel more optimistic that we're going to have it resolved, if not on election night, then very, very soon thereafter.
But I don't know.
I'm an optimist.
So maybe I'm being too Pollyanna about it.
I'd love to know what you think.
Listen, next week we got you totally covered as well.
And we're going to get to some big guests there.
But first, I want to tell you that today's episode was brought to you in part by Palm, the next generation pepper spray that gives you peace of mind.
Get yours today at palmpepperspray.com.
So next week we're going to have all the election events covered for you.
Including the vote, obviously.
We'll have Hugh Hewitt.
We're going to be joined by Charles Cook.
And history will be in the making, right?
This is like one of the things that makes me proud to be an American.
Democracy in action.
There will be a peaceful transfer of power if Trump loses.
If he wins, the Democrats will come to accept that loss.
And the country will go on.
And don't let anybody tell you that we won't survive four more years of Trump or four to eight years under Democrat rule from the White House.
We will.
It's the United States of America.
There are more of us who are sane and can see the world clearly than there are.
Lunatics on the left and the right.
So keep that in mind and keep listening.
Go to Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts, subscribe to the show, download the show, give me a five star rating if you feel so inclined.
And I'd love to see a review.
I'm still reading them.
I love, love, love, love to hear from you guys.
Listen, have a great weekend and we'll see you on Monday.
Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show.
No BS, no agenda, and no fear.
The Megan Kelly Show is a devil may care media production in collaboration with Red Seat Ventures.
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