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Oct. 6, 2020 - The Megyn Kelly Show
01:00:38
20201006_potus-has-covid-with-dana-loesch-olivia-nuzzi-and-
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Irreconcilable Differences 00:03:52
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Welcome to the Megyn Kelly Show, your home for open, honest, and provocative conversations.
Today, Trump has COVID and the media is melting down.
So what does it mean for this race less than a month out from Election Day?
Joining us today, voices from the right and the left and a very well-sourced White House reporter with the Inside Scoop.
Hey, everyone.
It's Megyn Kelly.
Welcome to the Megyn Kelly Show.
So Trump has COVID.
His doctor lied.
So did the media.
Just another day in America.
I've got a lot of thoughts on what's been happening now with Trump's diagnosis and the first lady's, along with about 40,000 others in and around the president.
But my number one takeaway is we would all be better served if we could trust that doctor.
Trump's got to get somebody out there who doesn't engage in puffery or real estate sales by trying to change the information we're getting and just lays it on the line.
The guy had a high fever.
He had some oxygen.
He's doing much better.
Great.
We got it.
COVID's not pleasant, but so far it doesn't seem that awful.
Why can't they just be straight?
That's fine.
That serves the president and it serves us.
But of course, the media did what the media does and went full on conspiratorial on us.
And of course, we can't trust them either.
So hopefully, that's where we come in, as we're going to try to give it to you straight.
We've got voices, as I said, from the left and the right today.
We've got Nomiki Kanst.
She's a lefty.
She used to come on the Kelly file all the time, and she's good, although she did something a little controversial, which we're going to get into.
We've got Olivia Nuzi.
She's from New York Magazine.
She's also from the left.
And I think you're going to find what she has to say about the media covering this story.
Pretty provocative.
And we've got Dana Lash, one of my personal favorites.
She's a nationally syndicated radio host, and she is rare to go on the Democrats' attempt to push back the Amy Coney Barrett hearings because they say this cannot possibly go forward given the COVID outbreak we've seen on Capitol Hill.
She's got some thoughts.
So, all that going on today.
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Questionably Sourced Stories 00:15:14
And now, Olivia Newsy.
Is your head spinning from the past 72 hours or longer?
I mean, my head has been spinning from the last five years.
Of covering Donald Trump.
This is a relationship with irreconcilable differences.
And the consequences of those irreconcilable differences are center stage because the media, in my opinion, has not reported fairly on Donald Trump.
And Donald Trump and the White House have, of course, lied to the media.
And now we're seeing the consequences of that destructive, awful relationship.
It's been more of the, I don't know, sort of the punditry in media that's gone off the rails.
Donald Trump sets the tone for his White House.
If people, if he cannot trust his most senior staffers, which has been consistently the case since the beginning of his political career, certainly, that seems like a Donald Trump problem, not a senior staffer problem, right?
If it's been true under every chief of staff, it's been true under every regime in this White House on both campaigns.
That strikes me as a problem with the executive.
Well, especially since Trump said he hired the best people.
And so it's like, well, only the best.
And I always think it's a situation where.
Number one, Trump is the most unusual leader we've had in generations.
And the way he is in general is he's a destroyer of things.
He's a wrecker, which is why he got hired, right?
They wanted to go down in Washington and just wreck shit.
And he's been doing it.
And so that's why his core supporters are like, great.
May not be the prettiest package, may have a lot of rough edges, but we'll take it because status quo wasn't working for us.
Mitt Romney was the perfect package.
He looked good.
He had the perfect hair.
And they were like, no.
Trump's hair is not perfect, Negative?
It's debatable.
It's debatable.
I actually ran my finger through that hair one time, Olivia.
And I can confirm it's not really a comb over.
It's like, it's all there.
It's legit.
But anyway, it looks like it feels kind of like a cobweb to me.
It was actually quite nice if you want to know the truth.
I'll defend President Trump's hair.
He's got very soft hands, too.
If he doesn't overspray it, it's better.
But anyway, I think that's why.
So it's like, if you want a truly pleasant working environment, that's probably not where you go to work in any White House, number one, but certainly not in the Trump White House.
But I also think it goes back to my irreconcilable differences because the press eggs it on and the press wants to foment controversy within these guys and make it like a Game of Thrones or a team of rivals, what have you.
Look, everyone wants to talk about the left word media bias in the press.
And I think that there is certainly some legitimacy to that criticism that we could spend hours and hours talking about.
But I think that the bigger truth is that the press is biased towards conflict.
We want drama.
When we watch any event, when we read any speech, When we watch any interview or conduct any interview, what are we looking for?
We're looking for the conflict.
We're looking for the friction.
That is usually the easiest way to pretend, even if they're, well, not just get, no, I think it goes beyond that.
I think this is true before getting clicks was even something that a phrase that people would recognize, right?
Before you could click on anything.
I think that friction and drama, I mean, it's like, it's just like entertainment, right?
It's what's the next development?
It's the easiest way to push the story forward is to have some sort of, In the direction of conflict.
And I think that stimulates the amygdala.
That's what they say.
So, what now, speaking of the press and its dishonesty, I've got to ask you specifically about one guy, Gabe Sherman.
This guy, he's at Vanity Fair now, but can I tell you, so this guy, he made his name reporting on Roger Ailes and Fox News.
This is the only reason people know that name at all.
And I used to read his stuff while I was at Fox because it concerned my workplace and the people I worked with and sometimes me.
And I would say Gabe Sherman had his facts right less than 50% of the time.
You know, someplace between 40 and 50 percent, but was a hundred percent wrong all the rest of the time, and somehow this passed for reporting.
And he was allowed to go on and on.
He would have one source for something who would be anonymous, and they would let him run with this.
And now he's doing his same act over at Vanity Fair.
And it seems to me he's been allowed to run loose too long.
Because one of his reports over the weekend, and I will quote, sources, colon, Trump had heart palpitations on Friday, a high fever, or his fever reached 103, and a G7 ally wonders if he'll appoint Ivanka president instead of Pence.
He's lost it.
I mean, for any.
That's like not how the Constitution works.
Oh my God, Olivia.
How did they let him put that out there?
Look, I have no insight into the editing process there.
There are some fantastic editors at Valley Fair.
Gabe Sherman wrote for New York Magazine for a very long time, which is obviously where I work.
I was going to do you the favor of not mentioning it.
Much of his work there certainly was extremely consequential.
Um, important work holding people in power accountable.
Um, I don't want to, uh, you know, speak ill of a former colleague, but I think that in the Trump era, there have we've seen time and time again, there's kind of been this lower, there's been this lowering of standards.
I think, um, when it comes to what we will abide with sourcing, um, what we will abide with, uh, just kind of a Gut check on common sense when it comes to reporting on this president.
And I think that we across the board have sometimes permitted things to get by or be promoted that don't make very much sense.
And I don't mean to attack a former colleague.
And I don't want to, as I said before, I think on balance, the reporting in the Trump era has been very good.
I know you disagree with that assessment.
But I think that across the board, we permit things to kind of take hold, storylines, narratives to take hold.
That if it were on the other side, I don't think that we would.
Absolutely.
If it were about Barack Obama, I don't think that we would.
Absolutely.
But it's more complicated than this, right?
Like we could talk about this for a whole straight.
And I could do 25 examples, but this one, in a sea of egregious press statements, this one stands alone.
I mean.
There was an editor at BuzzFeed who I thought made a very good Point about this report, which is that this now is not the time to do shit like this.
You know, now is not the time to single source outrageous claims or use attribution like one Republican said, you know, like what the hell does that mean?
One Republican that could be a Republican could be anybody, right?
If you're someone who knows, and this is not about Gabe in particular, I'm actually writing a story about this very thing right now about these anonymous Republicans in the Trump era.
Well, doesn't this irritate you?
Because when you have somebody like that, Putting out nonsense, total nonsense like that.
First of all, it's not news that someone might wonder if he's going to appoint a Vonka instead of Pence, right?
That can't happen.
But it's not news that someone is wondering about that.
It's just sensationalistic, just like his other tweet over the weekend about how you could see the fear in Donald Trump's eyes.
It's like, Gabe, SDF you, just stop.
You're not helping.
And in my view, he undermines reporters like you, who I don't think you're pro Trump, but you do at least have sources.
I read your stuff all the time.
I've always known you to be fair.
And You have sources and you won't report it until you have sources.
And I think there are too many Gabe Shermans out there who are like, I smell problems for the president.
Let's go with it.
Well, I think that the problem, you know, you were talking about the Russia reporting earlier.
And I think that there has not been a media reckoning.
On how the Russia story was handled.
And there were a lot of things that I found to be totally egregious and totally embarrassing about how that story was handled, and how the left was allowed to kind of conspiracy monger about that.
And still, it's still pervasive, these conspiracies, and how that was taken seriously in a mainstream way.
And I find the same to be true about a lot of stories that are questionably sourced about the president, his mood, or Whether or not he's fuming.
And a lot of those stories are legitimate.
I hear from people who are with the president who say, like, you know, he's in a bad mood today or he's screaming today.
That doesn't mean that all of those stories are not legitimate.
But I think, you know, as someone who's sophisticated about the media, you'll read something when the sourcing is not quite right, right?
It doesn't seem that solid.
But I think, unfortunately, there are a lot of people who really started tuning into the day by day coverage of this administration or of politics in general on November 9th, 2016.
Who are not as sophisticated and they get fooled by this kind of stuff.
And I think it's very dangerous.
It's kind of how I felt about reporting on Me Too.
If the New York Times is going to spend a year on an investigation that they make sure has no holes in it, they're rock solid on everything, it does not help anyone's cause to run some anonymously sourced allegation someplace else.
I'm trying to remember who originally broke the ridiculous Julie Swetnick gang rape allegations involving Brett Kavanaugh, obviously untrue and peddled by.
As Tucker calls him, creepy porn lawyer Michael Avenatti, who's now facing felony charges.
That's a sign of intelligence on your part, right?
If you're defined by who your enemies are.
I always laugh because it's like over the past couple of years, I've had, I've gotten big dust ups with Anthony Weiner, Steve Bannon, and Michael Avenatti, too, all of whom are either under indictment or already went to prison or likely to.
So it's like, yeah, I feel pretty good about.
I was reporting something the other day and I was just telling my boyfriend this this morning.
I was like, You know, I'm going through my Rolodex of sources and I'm trying to confirm something, and like half the people are in jail or indicted or have COVID.
I'm just like, Jesus Christ.
Can we just like, can everyone calm down so I can continue to report on this administration?
It's talking about drinking from the fire hose of news.
It's been like the fire hydrant these past couple of years.
Okay.
So, where does that leave us?
Where does that leave us now with the elections barreling down upon us on November 3rd?
What do you think is likely to happen with Trump getting back on the campaign trail, which you know he's itching to do?
And how do you think this whole thing affects the race?
Well, before we could talk about Trump getting back on the campaign trail, I think we have to talk about him getting back on his feet.
We have no idea right now, at the time that you and I are speaking, we still do not know the last time that the president tested negative.
The White House has not given us answers about that.
We do not know what exactly is wrong with his lungs.
His doctor is very evasive about that.
His doctor, I think, is sowing doubt and distrust.
In what this administration is telling us, what the White House is telling us.
I think he's doing the president a tremendous disservice.
So I think before we can talk about whether or not he's going to get back on the campaign trail, we have to know whether or not he's okay.
And right now, there's no reliable information coming out of this White House or from the president.
That's the most irritating thing about Dr. Conley, right?
It's like if he wanted to not tell the truth about Trump's fever or his oxygen, he should have just said, I have no information for you on that at this time.
For we're not going to get into that and just make it obvious.
I don't want to talk about it.
But the last thing you do is lie.
And even when he came out and acknowledged his lie, you know, he admitted that he was trying to paint a more rosy picture and then said when he owned up to it.
He said it, and I quote, I didn't want to give any information that might steer the course of illness in another direction.
Apparently, that means he didn't want to dampen Trump's spirits.
And in doing so, it came off that we were trying to hide something, which wasn't necessarily true.
What?
Necessarily?
Dr. Collie, you're no good at this.
You're no good at this, sir.
Back into the OR you go.
Yeah, no, I mean, Jugie Hauser over there with his good vibes only approach to briefing.
The public, I don't think that this is going to work out very well for the president.
And I understand, you know, a lot of people talk about the pressure that they feel to please the president when they talk to the media or when they go about their job if it doesn't have to do with interfacing with the media.
There's a lot of anxiety about pleasing the president.
And I could see how it could lead to this type of situation.
But I don't think that the president is helped in the end.
And I don't know if he knows this.
I don't think that he's helped in the end by having someone out there making it seem like this is weekend at Bernie's.
And that's kind of how it's coming across.
That's Biden's gig.
Trump should not get in on that.
But I think that back to the campaign, I saw a lot of allies of the president, campaign surrogates, mocking Joe Biden yesterday, even after all of this started.
After the president did his little COVID parade outside of Walter Reed, I saw them mocking Joe Biden, saying, oh, the president still did more public events today than Joe Biden.
They're still trying to push this narrative that Joe Biden is.
Like, addled, sick, and not well enough to be out on the campaign trail, even when the president is hospitalized with the virus that has killed 200,000 Americans.
I think that is ridiculous.
And I think their lack of a message is really going to hurt them in this sprint to Election Day.
But Joe Biden hasn't exactly been ubiquitous.
I mean, as we both know, there are ways of communicating, but the guy puts a lid on the press at like 8 02 in the morning, right?
So it's like, let's just pretend Joe Biden doesn't have a strategy of staying in his basement and doing a weekend at Bernie's.
Maybe it's true, maybe it's not.
We'll find out.
I think that he's benefited tremendously from the fact that this virus has permitted him to stay out of view and stay away from the press.
And he does not have to risk having a gas a minute as he ordinarily would if he was.
And it gives him the excuse.
COVID gives him the excuse of just looking like he's being responsible.
But meantime, there are lots of ways of speaking with voters and the press that are COVID friendly, safe.
And he's not going to do it.
And I don't, I understand why it's working for him.
If I were his advisor, I'd say, thumbs up.
Keep it rolling because you're winning.
That's the predicament Trump's in now is that Biden is winning, according to most of the polls.
And Trump, he has time and he also probably has the secret to Trump voters, but he's going to have to do something.
He's going to have to do something between now and November 3rd to appeal to those women and seniors.
Olivia, it's always good talking to you.
Thank you and get some sleep.
Thank you.
The COVID Excuse 00:17:10
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And without further ado, Dana Lash.
So what a crazy weekend.
I took my kids to this fall festival over the weekend, and they were going down the slides and they were going through the corn maze.
And I'm looking at Twitter like, Oh my God.
What?
Right?
Were you having the same reaction?
Yeah.
Well, I wake up every single day and I just wait to see what trends.
So, one of the first things that I do in the morning is I will actually go to trending topics and see what's up because it's always some goofy phrase or something insane that you couldn't, that you did not have on your 2020 bingo card.
And then I just, then that's how the day starts.
The day predictably takes on that insane tone.
Right.
Well, I, you know, the headline was basically Trump lied about when he got corona.
You know, and it was, he got it Wednesday instead of Thursday.
And of course, I'm like, what?
And as it turns out, you can blame that somewhat on the media, but mostly on the doctor, that Dr. Conley, who came out and was like, 72 hours ago.
That guy, I'm telling you, like, I feel like he was the biggest loser of the weekend, right?
Because he just sacrificed his credibility.
He was all over the place with information.
And now we can't trust him.
Yeah.
And I don't know if he was just trying to be careful with his words.
And I was really trying to give him the benefit.
Of the doubt because I kept telling myself, okay, this, you know, he's a doctor, he's not really a media professional, and he probably never anticipated himself being in this position.
But just it was just kind of cagey when he was some of the stuff that he would say, and it required the White House to come back and kind of clarify a couple of things.
And then when he was explaining, for instance, some of the drugs that they were giving the president and what they seemed almost contradictory, I mean, I only play a pretend pharmacist, I'm only a pretend pharmacist on air, um, but.
They seemed like they would work against each other.
And I do wish that he would have explained just a little bit more about exactly why they were giving the president the drugs that they were and in tandems like they were, because it just made everyone question even more.
And it was already an insane topic.
And it had already been a whirlwind kind of story because what it's like, it was just like a couple of days and then the president was back at the White House.
So, yeah, I really wish it's almost like they needed somebody, a media professional there to say, okay, now you need to explain to the press exactly why.
You gave him after Remdesivir, why you gave him this other anti inflammatory that is used to treat all this other stuff.
Because then you had Twitter being the doctor.
And we've already had Twitter, the guerrilla experts.
We've already had Twitter, the space experts.
Now we have Twitter, the pharmacist.
And you can't ever trust Twitter.
But apparently that's how the media gets the basis for their stories.
So that's why they are.
And it's like, I like Dr. Connolly at first.
I'm like, okay, this guy's going to be a straight shooter.
He's going to give us the information.
And then he says all sorts of wrong things.
Right.
That Trump had it for 72 hours and that wasn't true and that they began treatment 48 hours earlier and that wasn't true.
Later had to come out and clarify.
And then he explicitly said they hadn't given him oxygen on Friday and then 24 hours later had to admit that wasn't true.
Yeah.
I get it.
If you want to protect your, your patient's privacy to some extent, it's hard when it's the president and keep his attitude up.
But the choice there is then to just say, we're not going to talk about that.
That we're not going to talk about and just be, just be honest about your caginess as opposed to lying.
Because now he's done us all a disservice because we no longer trust him.
So I understand why some of the press lost its mind, because the last thing you can do to the press is let them catch you in a direct contradiction when it has to do with Trump.
They're going to kill you.
Right?
If this had been Obama's doctor, they would have been giving the guy a total pass, but it's Trump.
So, no.
But let me ask you about the most intense criticism we've seen, I think, has been over the Secret Service car ride.
And Trump went out on Sunday and did a little like ride around with the crowd, waving from inside with the windows up.
And to me, Dan, it was funny because after months of protesting in the face of law enforcement, getting in the face of the Secret Service, Right outside of the White House and telling them to F off, basically spitting all over them while they're screaming at them, you know, the Black Lives Matter protests and so on.
Suddenly, suddenly the left is very concerned about the health of the Secret Service and really wants them treated with more respect.
Yeah, exactly.
Suddenly, Blue Lives Matter, I guess.
And I think that that's a great point as well, because here nobody was concerned at all whatsoever about the Black Lives Matter protests and how they could be super spreader events.
And in fact, you will not find any reporting at all whatsoever of them being treated as such.
The weird thing about this is, how do they think Trump got to the hospital?
He didn't Harry Potter apparate from the White House into his presidential suite at the hospital at Walter Reed.
He had to get in a chopper with Secret Service.
And then everybody became, and this is my favorite, Megan, everyone became experts on the presidential car.
And they were saying, well, you know, it's basically sealed tight, and there's all the germs are in with them together in this tube, and they're all probably going to die.
Then there were other people, engineers, and people who are familiar with the way that the automobile was constructed that say, no, actually, he's in his own probably little glassed off vestibule inside.
There's thick double glass between him and Secret Service in the front seat.
Since you all need to know this so very badly, that's not an important issue.
And the fact that the way that this is why people don't trust Legacy Press, and we really want to right now, we desperately would love to.
We want to have that relationship.
But stuff like this is why we can't.
They were apoplectic over this yesterday.
It was trending all day.
So, or the other day, actually.
So, I look at this and I don't think it was a huge deal.
I don't think it was.
I mean, he had his face mask on.
Secret Service had their face mask on.
He's the president, he's got to be protected.
I just, it was so over the top.
I don't know.
I'm waiting to see what else the week holds.
And not only that, but the Secret Service, to your point, not only were they in a car with him and a helicopter with him, days earlier, but do people think the Secret Service, like they don't get anywhere near the president they're protecting?
It was like, it's kind of their job to stay within six feet of him and make sure nothing bad happens.
And no one knows whether they have Secret Service agents who already have the antibodies or what was done to protect them.
So it's all speculation.
And my own feeling was watching the hysteria, the hysteria over that car ride was that what's really driving their anger over this is not the car ride.
It's over coronavirus misinformation in general and over Trump in general.
They hate him.
Yeah.
He disrupts.
Well, he also, if he's recovering as quickly as it's said that he is, and it would appear that he is, then it completely disrupts the narrative that the press has been selling everyone this entire time.
Because the way that the story works is that the moment you contract coronavirus, then you're pretty much a fatality.
That's kind of how they present it.
In all of this discussion, they have never put into context the severity of the cases, nor have they put into context the recovery rate, which is incredibly important, particularly if you're hyping the fatality rate.
And so they sold this as, oh, well, you have it, it's a fatality.
And it was just ghoulish the way that they were sort of just waiting on standby to see if the president's condition was going to deteriorate more.
And then they tweeted out the photos of him working and tweeted all this other stuff out.
Of him, apparently he was sending pizzas to the supporters outside, something like every 45 minutes he was sending pizzas or something like that, which I thought was kind of funny.
But then he's back at the White House, and they give word that he's ready to assume a full work schedule.
He's going to be doing the whole social distancing and quarantining.
And that really contradicts what the media has been trying to tell the public.
They have been trying to sell us on continued lockdowns.
We need to lock down again and even more.
None of the kids should go to school.
You should wear a mask all the time, even in your own home.
And for crying out loud, some people are saying even during intimate times with your partners, you should wear a face mask.
Oh, come on.
Stop it.
For crying out loud.
It's just, it's, it's, we have to because we, oh man alive, they've actually been, I've talked about this on radio.
They, they're at, there have been some academics in the field of science who have said, well, perhaps it's best that we even incorporate mask usage in the home and, Maybe even in the bedroom.
And I don't know, nobody's doing that.
You don't put more things on, but that's a whole other topic.
I haven't taken this close look at it, but like, aren't there, like, is the coronavirus immune to all bodily fluids or just the stuff that comes out of your saliva?
I don't, sorry to get too personal, but I'm just thinking, like, if I'm going to incorporate a mask into my bedroom routine, it's going to be like a leather one.
I don't know.
I'll just like make the most of it.
But I'm just thinking, this is an area where I do not want Dr. Fauci.
Get out.
Yeah, no, I do not want Dr. Fauci's advice in that area.
And I especially do not want a national mandate on facial prophylactics.
No, you and Chris need no help in spicing up your bedroom routine.
This I know about the two of you.
So, okay.
So the other problem they have is that, you know, Trump, he does seem to be doing better.
And you've had, you know, we talked about this a minute ago, but you've got reporters like Vanity Fair's Gabe Sherman tweeting out nonsense over the weekend about, this is the quote, just watch Trump's hospital video a second time.
His breathing is so clearly labored.
He seems to be leaning on the table for support.
And there's so much fear in his eyes.
Oh, my God.
So they invest in a narrative that the guy's on his deathbed.
And then when he's driving around and he's returning, it's like, it can't be.
It can't be.
Yeah.
No.
Yeah.
The drama of it all.
He should be, he should break for Harlequin.
That should, that should be his next gig in case this one falls through.
It's, it's, it is this ghoulish desire.
To see their, I mean, honestly, their wish fulfilled.
I really think that they would love the chaos that something of that consequence would throw the nation into.
And I mean, we've all watched the video.
What do you mean, Trump diet?
Yeah, if he were to, heaven forbid, if it were to suddenly deteriorate and reverse and he would go the other way, which doesn't seem like that's the natural progression once you contract this virus.
And he's, I mean, despite the fact that he is in an older age demographic, He's still, I mean, he's what I think a little overweight.
He said it himself, but he's relatively healthy.
He doesn't really have any vices.
He's kind of straight edge.
He doesn't have any vices, except maybe perhaps the stress of the job, but that's about it.
And so he's thin.
Even with, yeah, and with some of these other variables factored into it, I mean, he still has what a 99 or 95, 99% something recovery rate.
I mean, it's incredibly high.
No one wants to talk about it.
I think his age has like a 94.7 or almost 95.
Percent recovery rate, but they do, they have been treating this as though it's a stage for pancreatic cancer, you know, just to get the COVID diagnosis at 74 years old.
And it isn't true.
It's riskier.
And certainly when you're overweight, like Trump is, thanks to the McDonald's, you know, it's riskier.
But the odds are overwhelmingly in his favor.
And you can just sort of sense there's a hope.
Behind too many of these Democrats, that something awful will happen.
And some of them actually put it in writing, which we've talked about.
You know, some of them actually said, like Hillary Clinton's old spokesperson expressly saying, I hope he dies.
I hope he, I mean, it's just gotten to that level.
And there's a reason why they would like for that to be prolonged.
And the first and foremost, the biggest reason is that Trump and coronavirus, because of the narratives that have been published for months now, that is where he is, that's the most difficult for him in polling.
And now, here as we're coming down the home stretch towards November, They need to not have the attention shift from any kind of focus on the economy and the economic gains.
I think what is it?
It's the fastest that we've ever seen in our nation's history.
We're going to have two economic comebacks in the span of a four year period.
So, as long as the news focuses on that issue, that does really, really well for Trump because people vote their wallet.
And I think, with the exception of one individual, there's never been a president not reelected under a good economy.
So, they have to have this focus on coronavirus.
Because that is what the media has made his weak spot.
And that has been his weak spot in some battleground states with some independence.
And so that's what they need to focus on.
That's why, that's one of the reasons why him getting it at this time and it becoming, you know, spreading like wildfire throughout his closest people is bad.
It's no question it's politically bad for Trump because it does make it look like the thing that he's weakest on has come back to hobble him right in his home.
I want to ask you about the latest polls that were just out.
And I always say, I don't.
I don't have that much faith in the national polls.
The swing state polls are more interesting, but it's interesting to me that the latest Wall Street Journal NBC poll has now Biden with a 14 point lead, 53 over 39 to Trump.
And they said the biggest advantage Biden just gained was with older voters and suburban women.
And Reuters, Ipsos has a similar, well, they have Biden up now 10 points.
And so the question, I know Trump always says, I won, I won, I won the debate.
But the truth is the polls suggest he did not win the debate.
And I wonder whether we now have an answer to it.
Whether his behavior at that debate did hurt him with not his core supporters, but the folks he really needs on his side, like older voters who he won last time, but they seem to be migrating over to Biden.
Right.
And I haven't looked at any of the details for this, any of the crosstab information from it.
So I don't know where they're pulling some, where they're, what area they're pulling their voters for, what the, how wide the spread is.
But I am curious to see what this does in the next week as well as.
As the polling reflects, like maybe, or maybe there isn't even one.
Let me shift gears with you and ask you about Amy Coney Barrett in the hearings now, because we're already hearing some Democrats come out and say, we cannot do this.
The remote participation that Mitch McConnell is suggesting we can do is inadequate for a lifetime appointment.
And this needs to be postponed, and we can't get her confirmed.
Yeah, well, inadequate or not, it would work absolutely fine.
And I know you and I were talking earlier, and You know, you made the point that if, you know, if our kids are being, if they're doing remote learning and this is education for, I think, most of the year now for school, if this is good enough for them, this is completely appropriate for this, particularly since the Constitution doesn't mandate a hearing.
We don't have to have a hearing at all.
That's right.
They didn't used to have them at all.
No, they didn't.
And Mitch McConnell, I mean, if he really wants to be sassy about it, he can say, okay, you know what?
I understand how nervous you all are.
Let's go ahead and just hold the vote.
We won't even bother with the hearing.
We'll just have the vote right now.
That might be kind of a gamble for him, but.
At the same time, I think people would like the aggressiveness of it.
But yeah, there's nothing wrong with having a remote hearing.
And Amy Coney Barrett is someone out of the candidates that are on the list.
She's already been pretty well vetted.
Obviously, not everyone in America knows who she is.
A lot of people are hearing her for the first time.
I mean, if they're nervous about having the hearing, then go ahead and have the vote.
But either way, I mean, the president serves for four years, not three.
Let's get it done.
Yeah, they've already had 21 hearings remotely since the pandemic began.
Richie Sambora's Story 00:07:58
And the point I was just trying to make is if it's good enough for my kid to learn remotely, then it's good enough for you senators to learn remotely about Amy Coney Barrett.
Exactly.
Right?
Like, why the double standard?
Why do you have to actually be sitting in the same room with her in order to understand?
It's an obvious dodge because they don't want to be.
They're not getting their B roll footage.
This is the campaign footage they all get.
They all get footage of them yelling at this woman, just like they all got them footage of themselves yelling at Kavanaugh.
And then that's what they go and raise money with.
They want the spectacle of it.
They want the theater.
It's all a Victorian Creek show.
That's what they want.
But at the same time, part of me really wants a hearing because they always overplay their hand every single time.
And they absolutely, I guarantee it, they would with Amy Coney Barrett as well.
That is the only attraction that for me that I have with these.
With this whole process, I would like hearings just to see them overplay their hand.
Well, you may get it via remote.
We'll find out.
Dana, so good to hear from you.
So good to speak with you.
Good to talk with you, Megan.
Congrats again.
Thanks, Anne.
See you soon.
We've got Democrat Nomiki Kantz coming up in a second.
It's fair to say that she and I had a few tense moments, some disagreements over some actions she engaged in recently, which we'll bring to you.
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Before we get to Nomiki, we want to bring you a feature on The Megan Kelly Show that we call Real Talk.
It's basically my chance to talk about something going on in my life or something personal that's happened to me that I want to Talk to you about.
And today it's Richie Sambora and John Bon Jovi.
Yes.
Like most girls who grew up in the 80s, I love John Bon Jovi, the band.
I love John Bon Jovi and I also love the band Bon Jovi and Richie Sambora.
But it wasn't until later in life that I actually met Richie Sambora at a charity event down south.
And he was helping raise money for a bunch of kids, which is what he always does.
And I loved the guy.
Super sweet.
Not at all what you'd think when you meet a rock star, like sort of, I don't know.
Gruff or weathered, right?
He was just super warm and kind and self deprecating.
Well, it turned out about a year or two after that, Doug and I were on vacation with our family, and who was at the same hotel but Richie Sambora?
So we spent a week with a guy in Hawaii, more than a week, basically on vacation with Richie.
We played tennis with him.
You haven't lived till you've seen Richie Sambora and his tennis whites.
It's just like so incongruous.
But he was so kind.
He was so good with my kids.
And we just fell in love with the guy.
Well, flash forward to just last night.
And I'm scrolling through Twitter and I see an article by John Bon Jovi giving an interview.
And, you know, Richie left the band and those two had a falling out, as so often happens.
And that's fine.
But honestly, John Bon Jovi never misses an opportunity to take a hit on Richie Sambora.
Richie Sambora wrote all of that band's greatest hits.
That's why he's in the Songwriters Hall of Fame as well as the Guitar Players Hall of Fame.
He is the talent behind Bon Jovi, and that's why Bon Jovi is not what it used to be without Richie Sambora.
So fine, they parted.
They should be classy about it and say, okay, we had a lot of good years.
Honestly, John Bon Jovi should just be quiet when it comes to Richie Sambora because what he said in this article, because he's promoting a new album, was that, oh, you know, I really wish that Richie were still part of the band.
It's too bad, you know, if only he had his life together.
And then he goes on and says, you know, it's because of his inability to get it together that, you know, I went on to write this other great song that I'm really proud of a couple of years ago.
So, shot after shot, Richie's a hot mess.
Richie doesn't have his life together.
He can't get it together, and so on.
Now, I do know Richie Sambora.
Trust me when I tell you he has his life together.
He's making money hand over fist, of course, because he gets a lot of money on the songs that he wrote, and he's still writing great music.
But Richie Sambora, as you know, has a daughter, might know, with Heather Locklear.
And Heather's had a rough few years, as you've probably seen in the tabloids.
And guess who's been taking care of their daughter?
Richie.
And their daughter, Ava, has turned out beautifully.
She's doing really well.
She's a college.
She's a super together kid.
Richie's a great, active father, which leaving the band helped him be at a time when their kid needed it.
And on top of that, I just want to tell you a quick story about Richie.
During COVID, one of our lowest points was my son, Yates, who's now 11. lost his music teacher to COVID.
It was awful, Mr. Sorrell.
He was the sweetest guy.
Yates loved him.
I mean, how often is it that your kid comes home and just keeps talking about one teacher?
Well, that was Mr. Sorrell for Yates.
And sadly, he died from COVID.
And it was awful for the whole community.
Well, Richie Sambora heard about it and he contacted us and said, I want to talk to Yates, who again, he had met in Hawaii briefly.
He talks to Yates.
He said, I too had a music teacher who I loved.
I understand the importance they can play in your life.
They were on the phone for hours.
Shortly after they hang up, Richie Sambora sent a guitar to our home, an electric guitar for my son with a huge amp, by the way, and contacted us saying, I want to teach Yates how to play guitar.
I want to help him learn music after the loss of Mr. Sorrell.
And can I tell you that my son Yates has been doing Zooms once a week with Richie Sambora for months now.
This guy's busy.
This guy still is pursuing a very busy and successful music career, and he takes an hour out of his time week after week to sit with my 11-year-old so he still has someone to look up to in the music world.
So you can pound sand, John Bon Jovi, because Richie does have his life together.
He's a beautiful man, and he's been nothing but class.
You could take a lesson.
And now, on a later note, no Mickey Kahnst.
Joining me now from the Democrat side is Nomiki Kunst.
Nomiki used to come on my show, The Kelly File, all the time, and she was always a fierce loyalist to the Democrats, but a reasonable person, a reasonable person on these issues.
No, Mickey, great to have you here.
Thanks for having me, Megan, and congratulations on the great show.
Huge success.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Grassroots Political Rallies 00:15:08
My own personal belief is that the reason Democrats are so angry about that Trump car ride with the Secret Service isn't exactly about the Secret Service.
It's just, it's like a metaphor for him doing what they think is reckless when it comes to coronavirus.
And they just, you know, they're resentful over six months of what they think is misinformation and poor leadership, poor examples.
What do you think?
I think you're absolutely correct.
I mean, this was a symbol, as you said, it was a metaphor of his not just his disconnect from the facts, but he's not just reckless.
He's so obsessed with his own politics.
And that, and he is also an emblem of the entire Republican Party.
I mean, just this week, Mitch McConnell, with three senators now who have tested positive for COVID, wants to call an immediate meeting, an urgent meeting to discuss the appointment of Amy Coney Barrett.
But I think the disconnect that Democrats are seeing with Republicans is really in empathy.
There's no hiding the truth at this point.
I mean, the president obviously has COVID, but there's no hiding the truth that they're more concerned with politics and winning the Senate and winning the presidency over the lives of not just at this point, it could be millions of Americans, but their own president.
And I mean, I was out in Arizona this week, just a couple of days ago.
I was in Scottsdale, Arizona, and I saw one of these pop up rallies.
Uh, Trump rallies, and it was a QAnon rally.
And I walked through and I wanted to ask everybody, you know, where do you get your information from?
And immediately, without even thinking through who I could be, was I a reporter?
They all ganged up on me, saying, you know, we don't listen to fake news like you.
And they didn't know I had a mask on, they didn't know who I was.
And they immediately said, well, we get it from QAnon, we don't trust anybody else.
And many of them thought that the president didn't have COVID, and those who did think he had COVID thought it was part of a plan.
So, this is the information from the base of the most loyal Republican Party members and Trump loyalists.
And that spreads.
And so, this is going to be a big deal.
Now, wait, but let me challenge you on that.
Yeah.
Maybe the QAnon folks out there thought that.
But I saw a tweet by Joy Reid over the weekend saying, I've got a cell phone full of texts from people who aren't sure whether to believe Trump actually has COVID.
He lies so much.
Our one friend texted, she said, Is he just doing this to get out of the debates?
Others are texting.
Now, that's put out by a primetime news anchor at MSNBC.
I mean, come on.
Yeah, I mean, listen, I think Joy Reid has an interesting history with the facts, but that's a whole other conversation for another time.
I mean, I, you know, and this is one of the issues that I think we have in cable news there are a lot of folks on there who may not necessarily understand the complexity of politics.
And that's why I love when I see different sides come together and you see Republicans and Democrats actually think through the issues on cable news.
First off, Trump doesn't want to look weak.
So why would he make up the fact that he has COVID?
I mean, that is.
He has a fear of that.
And he also doesn't want to acknowledge his failure of handling COVID.
And even beyond the fact that QAnon is so desperate to say that he doesn't have it shows that he actually has it because they're trying to cover up everything that he does.
They try to pretend to the loyal base that doesn't consume any other news.
They're trying to pretend that any weakness is not there.
I think your point is right, though.
He doesn't, he always wants to project strength.
There's no way Trump would invent.
COVID when he didn't have it, especially because this is the last thing he wants in the news all the time.
COVID, COVID, COVID, COVID.
You know, he wants to talk about the economy.
He wants to About Amy Coney Barrett.
He wants to talk about what he says was a win in the debate, though the polls suggest something else.
But he doesn't want to talk about coronavirus at all.
And this undercuts everything Trump wants to do.
So there's zero chance he invented this.
However, I do think there was a reason to be upset over the crazy doctor, Dr. Conley, over the weekend, who was like, It started 72 hours.
Oh, no, it was 48 hours.
And he had his first medication 48 hours.
Oh, no, it was 24 hours.
Oh, and everything's super rosy.
Oh, no, I just lied because that's what my patient wanted me to do.
Who am I?
That's amazing.
Osteopath, that's what he is.
Sir, take a seat, sir.
Is there a nurse somewhere who can help us?
Exactly.
I don't want to hear from Dr. Connolly ever again.
No, no.
I mean, that was an embarrassment.
And I wish, you know, at this point, I don't even know what to say how you hold the presidency, you know, the White House accountable for something like that.
But I think at this point, also, most of the news media can see through it.
You know, the last thing that I think is really important to keep in mind here is most people are voting right now.
I mean, really, like not most people, but a good chunk of America is voting right now.
In Arizona, where I just was, you know, at that rally, 80% of Arizonans vote early.
That is before COVID.
That is before 2020.
That is something, you know, Republican governor leads the state of Arizona.
This is not a left wing issue.
So you have folks going to the polls right now.
And so if he wants to make the case to the American people or to the 3% of undecideds, wherever they may be, he needs to be on the trail.
He needs to be on camera regularly.
And you know, you know, Donald Trump, he doesn't want to be off the camera.
He wants to be in control of the narrative at all times.
Well, his family's going to be out there.
His surrogates will be out there, but there's only one Trump.
And exactly.
I mean, I see your point, but I do think it's tough.
I mean, it's tough.
It's easy for President Trump to gin up enthusiasm among his loyal supporters and make sure they get out to the polls.
The bigger challenge has been to gin up more support amongst those who have left him or on the fence about him.
And that's the work he has to do between now.
and November 3rd.
But I mean, you know him.
He's going to be, as soon as he is physically able, he's going to be back out there.
I want to ask you this.
So I don't, I don't know.
I know people are saying they're very angry at him.
And some are suggesting that the fact that half the White House now seems to have been infected.
It's like Hope Hicks, Trump, Melania, the assistant to the president, Kellyanne Conway, Chris Christie, Mike Lee, Senator Tom Tillis, Ronald McDonald, John Jenkins from Notre Dame, who was at the Amy Coney Barrett, Bill Stepian, his campaign manager, Senator Ron Johnson.
I could go on, right?
So it's like, this certainly seems to have spread awfully fast.
you know, in part, we assume due to precautionary measures not having been taken.
But does that actually affect the vote?
Because I do think in general, Republicans are of the view that one takes responsibility for one's personal choices.
You know, no one forced Chris Christie to go into the debate prep room without a mask on for a week.
And, you know, people make different choices depending on their risk level and the situation they're in.
And I just don't know if the American public's going to be like, Trump bad because of the COVID outbreak there.
Again, I think it's, you know, 2016 was decided by two things.
Very low turnout among certain demographics in, you know, really working people making under $50,000 who traditionally vote for Democrats.
They didn't turn out at the rates that they expected in 2016.
But also, it came down to, you know, 50,000 votes in three states.
So if the 3% comes down to whether it's the Rust Belt or the Sun Belt, depending on the strategy, You know, it's how that 3% sees this crisis as an emblem for all crises.
I think in previous years, maybe in the last 10 to 15 years, Democrats have relied heavily on the presidential ticket.
It seems like it's actually coming from the grassroots this time around.
Folks, if they don't feel like Like Biden's organizing enough, or maybe they do, they still are organizing through their own independent groups for local candidates, statewide candidates.
And so, you know, they just, the enthusiasm, it needs to be at levels that we haven't seen probably since 2008 to be able to make up for anybody who may not be able to.
I mean, he tried.
Biden has tried to move Republicans over.
Maybe he did.
Maybe he moved a few of them.
But the counter to any voter suppression or folks not, you know, thinking that the virus is indicative.
Of Trump's failures is really for Democrats to turn out at record rates.
And my own personal view is that Biden didn't move anybody anywhere.
Trump moved everybody everywhere.
If you're in Trump's camp, Trump got you there.
If you're out of Trump's camp, Trump got you there.
You know, it's like Biden has just been sort of sitting down behind his big mask saying, like, go for it, sir.
I'm just going to watch, watch and learn.
Okay, question to you about some of the hypocrisy.
And I understand, you know, the ride in the Secret Service car, why it was controversial.
But I was pointing out earlier that.
Part of the problem is it's tough to get people really upset about this when we had the Black Lives Matter protests all summer and people were like, oh, the virus understands not to attack people who are protesting over perceived racial inequality.
People were like, what?
How smart is this thing?
And the Ruth Bader Ginsburg memorials, like impromptu gatherings on the Supreme Court, where everybody was on top of each other, not to mention the March on Washington, where people were jammed in like sardines, like sardines.
And so, I think a lot of people are looking at this like, can you spare us?
Can you not lecture us on Trump's, you know, Two minute ride outside of Walter Reed in his sealed car with Secret Service agents who may or may not have had any antibodies or taken the risk unwillingly.
We don't know, but you know what I mean?
It's like it's tough to take the protestations and the expressions of shock seriously.
Well, you know, a couple of things.
We don't really know what happened with all these other scenarios because most likely the folks aren't as, for speakers, as well known.
What was interesting about the Black Lives Matter protests over the summer and the uprising was.
A good chunk of folks were wearing masks.
I'm not going to say everybody, clearly, they were all over the country.
And it was outside.
And there is a lot of evidence to say that being outside with airflow makes a huge difference.
So just putting that aside.
But I think what's really going on when Trump gets in, takes a ride around Walter Reed, when reports are saying he is being, doctors are working in multiple ways, trying to treat him from every single direction, I think it just shows how desperate he is to prove that he is strong at a moment.
And that shows how desperate he is and how worried he is about these polls.
Well, why does it show that he's just trying to reassure his supporters?
He was sending the pizza out to and give people an uplifting moment.
I mean, I saw on Twitter over Saturday people who I really like on Twitter who are, you know, in the middle saying, maybe sure it'd be nice if you would just tweet something like just, we're just a little worried about him.
And then he did put out a couple of videos, but I think why can't it just be an attempt to reassure people he is okay?
Don't believe people's suppositions that he's, you know, on death's door.
And, you know, I'm good.
I'm here.
I'm getting treated, but I'm good.
Okay.
I want to ask you about you mentioned the QAnon thing and you went out to the rally.
This is in Arizona.
So we have a clip of you interviewing the folks out there, and I wanted to follow up with you on this.
So let's listen.
What about Trump being at Walter Reed, incapacitated?
He's admitted as a.
His doctor did a press conference.
No, he actually just did a press conference yesterday.
He's on the phone.
No, I just saw.
He just did a press conference.
He's been laying.
His doctor just went on air about an hour ago and said he's laying down right now.
At Walter Reed.
Incapacitated are two different things.
I'm not debating.
You challenged the word incapacitated and said he's not, but vice president is taking over duties because he is incapacitated.
He's not incapacitated, lady.
What are you doing there?
Why are you spreading misinformation like that?
Well, granted, that was, to be fair, that was two days ago, two days ago.
And so the news that morning, right before the press conference, was saying that the vice president was likely to take over duties because he was incapacitated in bed.
Now, no one was saying that.
There were no confirmed news reports that said that.
So the problem that she was having was that she came to me, and now there's a much larger video, there's 10 and a half minutes of this, in which she said, you know, he's laying down, he's fine, he gave a rally yesterday.
So there was more to this conversation in that she came in and she's like, By the way, only person of color comes to me, has a script.
So they're organizing, going to media because they want to portray themselves as a diverse group of Trump supporters.
But she was very scripted and she said, He gave a rally yesterday.
And I said, No, he didn't.
He did not give a rally yesterday.
He's incapacitated.
Now, granted, this was minutes after the press conference in which he was being admitted.
The doctor said he was admitted as a patient.
They did not believe he was admitted as a patient.
They know very well he wasn't incapacitated.
I'm just giving you jazz because you said that these are.
You know, this sort of the tin hat folks who don't understand information and don't have their facts.
But what you said is not true.
And you are misleading in that exchange.
Well, there's okay.
So I hear what you're saying here.
And there's the legal definition of incapacity that we all know now, two days later, after there's been a public conversation about whether or not Vice President Pence is taking over.
But two days prior, when this conversation, when they just asked the doctor, is he, how is he doing?
He's laying down.
He is resting.
He's, is he a patient?
Yes, he's a patient.
Will the vice president take over?
Does not mean incapacity.
Then I am incapacitated every night.
From 10 p.m. to 6 a.m.
Well, that's what she said.
That's what she said.
The difference is you're not in Walter Reed Hospital and they're not having conversations about Vice President taking over two days.
I know.
That was the conversation at that point.
No one was having a serious conversation about Vice President Pence taking over.
Nobody.
Only the president's detractors were saying that.
Right.
No, it was all over the media.
In the press conference, they asked these questions.
But then that was, again, the New York Times shouting a question at Mark Meadows doesn't mean people are talking about it.
I mean, that's like a reporter looking for a headline.
You were suggesting it's like the White House may be transferring power under the 25th Amendment.
Like, right.
So, anyway, I got to give you a hard time about that because I feel like, you know, the folks are out there, they're supporting him.
Some people genuinely are scared and love him.
So, I would say that wasn't your best move.
You know, but this is also an example of why it's important to have consistent information coming from the White House because it is changing by the minute.
You know, that morning, CNN, everywhere during the press conference, the conversation was very much around is the vice president going to take power, not control power, at least take over the duties of the day while he's in the hospital, like they did with George W. Bush when George W. Bush had a A minor medical procedure and he had to go under with anesthesia.
So, I mean, this isn't like the transfer of power and what happens, you know, for months before the election, before inauguration.
It's really just about what happens when a doctor says he's a patient at a hospital and he's a president.
I'm still banging the gong on this one, getting the hook and banging the gong.
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But listen, I love talking to you and I appreciate you coming on.
Thank you so much, Megan.
The vice presidential debate is on Wednesday night.
We will have full coverage of that for you the very next day.
And in the meantime, if you want to look back at another episode, go take a look at the interview I did with Adam Carolla, which I absolutely loved.
Listen to Adam Carolla on cancel culture and you will feel like a bad itch has gotten scratched.
in like a good, healthy way, not in a weird, I need ointment way.
In the meantime, if you like the podcast, go and subscribe.
You got to go to Apple and download and subscribe.
Apparently got to do both of those things in order for it to be a good thing.
And while you're on there, give me a rating, five stars, hello.
And also send me a note.
If you write a review, I've been going and I've been reading them and that she's been so sweet.
I love it.
It's so nice to hear some of your comments about the journey that you've taken with me along the way.
And I always love connecting with my audience.
So know that I am reading them.
And so keep it clean and keep it kind.
Until the next time, no BS, no agenda, and no fear.
The Megyn Kelly Show is a devil-may-care media production in collaboration with Red Sea Ventures.
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