The Michael Knowles Show - The Interview They Didn't Want You To See: Michael & The Trans Widow

Oct. 5, 2025 - The Michael Knowles Show

01:33:16

The Interview They Didn't Want You To See: Michael & The Trans Widow | Tracy Shannon

Tracy Shannon is a "trans widow" who lost her husband of 15 years of marriage to the transgender ideology. Michael Knowles sits down with Tracy to get the full story. - - - Today's Sponsor: Good Ranchers - Visit https://goodranchers.com and subscribe to any box using code KNOWLES to claim $40 off + free meat for life! - - - Privacy Policy: https://www.dailywire.com/privacy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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	I thought we were gonna get marriage counseling.
	She told me that I was closed-minded because I wasn't on board with all of the cross-dressing.
	She also told me that I must be a lesbian because I had fallen in love with a man that had this feminine side to him.
	In 2010, the kids were ordered and told they could no longer call their father dad.
	When we hear about transgenderism, which these days would appear to be all the time, it's almost always from the perspective of the transgender person, the person who feels that he is the opposite sex, what it means to be liberated from the shackles of oppression or whatever.
	Sometimes we hear about transgenderism from the perspective of a child.
	Though in that case, it's also often ostensibly from the perspective of a transgender person, the trans child who is coming to grips with his true identity and transitioning.
	There is one group of people whose perspective we never hear about when we talk about transgenderism, and that would be the women who are abandoned by their husbands, husbands who leave their families to pursue the transgender identity.
	I am joined by one such trans widow, Tracy Shannon.
	Tracy, thank you for being here.
	Thank you for having me.
	Tracy, let's just start from the beginning.
	What happened?
	I guess if we're starting from the beginning, we'd have to go back to early in my marriage to my first husband.
	And it became apparent that he had an issue with cross-dressing.
	So at some point, right after the birth of our first child, my baby was in the hospital, and my husband came to see us and informed me that he had an issue with cross-dressing and that it was more than just what I had noticed in the first four years of our marriage,
	occasionally finding a piece article of clothing missing, you know, that was mine and in his possession, or walking in on him doing his fingernails or shaving and being in a state of arousal while shaving, which is totally normal for women, right?
	No.
	So it was more than that, he said that he had had the issue with cross-dressing going all the way back to when he was a teenager, when he would uh borrow items of his mother's without her knowing and try them on.
	So at that point, I said, well, we should go get counseling, you know, wanting to save our marriage.
	And I didn't know it, but he was already seeing a counselor, and that would be the counselor that we would go to.
	So she did he tell you at this point, I'm seeing a counselor and we should go talk to this person to get no.
	No, I had no idea he had seen a counselor.
	So you went into the counseling with this doctor without knowing that they already had a relationship.
	Right.
	Okay.
	And I thought our purpose was to save our marriage.
	And in my mind, that meant we would come to the natural conclusion that this was hurtful to me, that he was cross-dressing, and that it was damaging our marriage, and that he would be, you know, find a way to stop.
	I was given all these excuses for why he might cross-dress, and none of them were that he felt like he was a woman, by the way.
	And um, but usually they were all my fault, according to him.
	So I thought we were gonna get marriage counseling.
	And I thought the natural conclusion would be that he would stop cross-dressing.
	But instead, when we talked to the therapist, she told me that I was closed-minded because I wasn't on board with all of the cross-dressing.
	And she suggested that he be able to go out with these men on their cross-dressing field trips and dinners On the weekends and in the evenings and without my knowledge and I wouldn't have to know where he was going.
	But he would just tell me something and it would be out of sight, out of mind.
	If I didn't know about it, it shouldn't bother me.
	And that he could have a P.O. box even where he would get uh catalogs where he could order female clothes and he would, you know, just hide all that stuff from me, and I'd never have to know about it.
	And because I wasn't okay with that, I was closed-minded.
	I hope that this marriage counselor has had her license revoked.
	I don't know if they have licenses.
	Has anyone ever said the key to a happy marriage is deception, not knowing where your spouse is, the pursuit of bizarre sexual fetishes that make the other person uncomfortable?
	Has anyone ever in history said that?
	Until five minutes ago?
	Well, this was in 1998.
	And so apparently this therapist who actually uh taught a class for many years in Houston about how to have a long and lasting relationship.
	Uh, she also told me that um I must be a lesbian because I had fallen in love with a man and that had this so-called inner feminine side to him, which I didn't know anything about except for the fact that he borrowed my bra when he went on a business trip one time or I caught him, you know, applying nails or shaving a couple of times.
	But um, I just didn't buy into that.
	There's this inner female or feminine side that he needed to express to be able to relax.
	And for that, I was I was closed-minded and I must be a lesbian, because obviously I fell in love with him and married him, so therefore I'm a lesbian.
	There is so much to unpack on the the premises even of what that what a lesbian would even be if you could be attracted to a man, someone who looks exactly like a man, but on some weird, deep new age kind of level is really a woman or whatever.
	But you gave a simpler explanation earlier.
	I don't want to get too uh graphic, I guess.
	But you say you walk in on your husband, he's cross-dressing, and he's in a state of arousal.
	So all of these explanations as to why he's cross-dressing.
	You say that he blamed you for this.
	Uh I guess now people would say that he's secretly a woman.
	But it would appear to me in my untutored uh view of things, you got the answer, which is it's a sexual fetish, and he he was aroused by the thought of being a woman or wearing women's clothing.
	And so I don't know, some guys like legs, and I guess this guy likes putting on women's clothing, but it's a it's a fetish.
	It's a it's a kind of base sexual desire.
	Right.
	I always felt um instinctively that it was a type of infidelity, that there is this elusive other woman he was creating to spend time alone with, and that this was hampering our intimacy in our marriage.
	But in fact, it's even worse.
	You know, this particular therapist, you asked about what's she doing now.
	Well, now she's written a book to help parents transition their children.
	It's a confusing topic, and obviously you've gone through it so personally and so with such trauma.
	But you you go to the counseling, this woman takes your husband's side and says, No, you've got to be open-minded and let him go gallivant with the boys dressed up in high heels and have his own P.O. box and basically choose his sexual fetish over your marriage, then what?
	It's worse than that.
	She actually wrote him the letter to transition while we were married.
	And this was early on in our marriage.
	We were married for a total of 15 years.
	This was in the fourth year of our marriage.
	So at this time, she wrote the letter for him to transition.
	And he then got on hormone therapy and started to develop little breast while we were married.
	I was told the reason for the breast development was that he was taking OCD medication to help him not want to cross-dress.
	So I actually felt sorry for him that he was developing these breast buds that were embarrassing, that he would wear a t-shirt when we went to the public swimming pool with our kids.
	I mean, I felt sorry for him.
	And I was trying to just be a living wife, and it affected things, you know.
	I feel very deceived that he was having this lesbian fantasy and growing these breasts while we were married and having intimate relations.
	I think that totally undermines the idea of consent that is so popularized by, you know, used by the left to onboard all these other things that um that we don't agree to as Christians and conservatives, especially when they're talking about our kids.
	So you know, you you talk about this term trans widow.
	And I think people lose parents.
	And it's hard to lose a parent when you're young, but it happens, and there's a kind of a comfort in knowing that person is gone.
	And there's a finality to it, and there's a closure to it, even if it even if it's painful.
	Wives lose their husbands and they die.
	It happened.
	It's sad, but there's a there is a finality to it, and you can grieve it.
	But in this case, the person is still there.
	They just deny who they are.
	And so you have all the downside of it with none of the the comfort, even with this question of infidelity.
	If your husband had just been having an affair, it's ugly, nasty, terrible, you could grieve it.
	This seems particularly insidious because the person he's having an affair with, the other woman is just a version of himself.
	It's so much darker.
	Right.
	And there's this ambiguous grief that the kids have to process and that the wife has to process.
	Losing the person you known for years, and the only father that the kids have ever known.
	And uh not only does the outward appearance change, but their behavior, their interest change.
	My son, my oldest, had bought my husband, ex-husband, a book when we were still married, and when he was 10 years old.
	It was called The Dangerous Book for Boys.
	It's a big red book, hardcover, and it has all kinds of activities for a father and son to do together.
	And they did one activity.
	I think it was making paper airplanes, one time.
	And after that, it just went on a shelf and collected dust and never to be picked up again by my, you know, by my then husband by his father.
	And it had a nice note in the front that my son had written about how he wanted to do all these things with him, and he was really looking forward to it.
	But instead, his father would become a fake woman and would lose interest in doing all those boy things with him.
	And who would he do those boy things with after that?
	Who would do the father-son things with him?
	People don't ever hear about the heartbreaking reality or the many nights that my children cried themselves to sleep, and I had to get up out of bed and go comfort them because they miss their father.
	And although they did see him dressed as a woman, it's not the same.
	There was no funeral to say goodbye to the father.
	There's no sympathy for me as a trans widow.
	There's instead, when I told someone that my husband was transitioning and that was what caused the end of our marriage, they would say to me, and they still say today, even this morning, a woman said to me something similar.
	Well, at least he can be happy now.
	Or no, sorry, she at least she can be happy now.
	And how did it affect her and her family?
	And um, I mean, people feel like they have to obey this ideology, even when the person we're talking about is not around, that they're gonna respect these pronouns.
	It's just so weird brainwashing that's overcome America to the degree that we have no empathy for the people that we should be having empathy for.
	We're told to feel sorry for the person who's cross-dressing their ass off, or the fetishist, the the person who's you know doing this transition.
	But no one's even talking about what's happening to the kids in this, what they're missing, and what happens to the women.
	My ex had a very good six-figure salary when he left.
	It's even Better now.
	So contrary to what they say, these guys are not all poor.
	I think you you recognize that Deirdre McCloskey is not poor.
	Yes, this uh professor I was supposed to debate this professor on gender, and he identifies as a woman.
	He's an economist, but he had multiple degrees from Harvard, very successful, affluent by by all measures.
	We're supposed to feel sorry for them because they're they just have a hard time with a career and all because the bigoted Americans, but that's really not the case.
	My ex has a good career, so there are many of the people that uh he's friends with that what came and testified in our divorce case that they were great parents, and and that he was a great parent, even though they spent no time, no time around him.
	So the part that's so hard for me to get is I guess it keeps coming back to this word fetish, because the fetish, the original meaning of fetish is refers to an idol, like a religious idol.
	You know, the pagans have their fetishes that they and I guess it still does.
	You know, this idea that you would put some glittering object, be it a body part or a fantasy or just anything, above reality and above the things that you're supposed to care for the most, to say, okay, I've got a choice here.
	I can either live up to my marriage vows and be a husband to my wife and be a father to my children, or I can titillate myself by putting on a dress.
	And to think that when ki confronted with these irreconcilable choices.
	You you cannot, if you identify as a woman, you cannot be a husband to your wife.
	That that's foreclosed.
	You cannot be a father to your children if you're gonna be a pretend to be a woman.
	And they would say, I'm gonna choose to titillate myself with the high heels and the skirt over my wife and my kids and any obligation that I might have.
	And to be celebrated for doing it.
	Right.
	And in our case, you know, destroying the family, wrecking the marriage.
	We we had to move out of our family home.
	You had to move out.
	He didn't move out.
	We we both ended up moving out, but he had an income.
	I was a stay-at-home mom for 10 years at that time.
	So I didn't have a job, and I had homeschooled my kids, so everything had to change for us.
	We we were homeless.
	So I had to go live with my mom and dad in their house for a couple years while I got on my feet financially because it took time.
	And the court only initially ordered him to pay $500 a month child support for three kids.
	So I was trying to make it all come together, and you know, that's part of the father's role, man's role, provider.
	And uh to think that now it's just okay that the state will tell you, you know, how much you'll provide, and and other than that, you don't have to do anything because of the fetish that you wanted to indulge, it's just really insulting to the family, and that society actually thinks this is okay.
	They think this is okay because kids are supposedly really resilient.
	Oh, if I hear that phrase, if I never heard that phrase again in my life, it would be too soon.
	Because you know, it's only ever used to justify child abuse.
	It's only ever used to, oh yes, dad ran off, and you know, the parents are fighting, and the kid is being trans and his education is being neglected.
	Oh, don't worry, kids are resilient.
	Well, they're not so resilient.
	It's had really hard um consequences for my children.
	And I think if you looked at them, you'd think they're doing great, especially considering all the negative things that can happen to children of divorce and children in alternative type of families and everything they've been exposed to, which maybe we'll get into that.
	Um they look like they're doing fine, but it's been a long way.
	How old are they now?
	So they're all over 18 now.
	My uh youngest with him is 19, and I have a 20-year-old and a 24-year-old.
	And so, but between the three of them, there have been six suicide attempts of different degrees of seriousness, and one um hospitalization in a mental health facility for a pretty good period of time for one.
	And now our haters Would say that's because I didn't accept this ideology and take my kids to some type of um indoctrination, like glad.
	And in fact, that was one of the things that was brought up that they wanted me to have to take my kids for re-education.
	Who wanted that?
	His lawyers when we first were divorcing.
	And in fact, when we went to court, um the kids were the first time we went to court, because we went twice because if you dare tell a transgender no, you're gonna get spanked and sued, which is what happened.
	And I got sued for full custody of my kids a second time after we had already settled the divorce because I dared to tell him that you couldn't have your your lover spending the night with my kids.
	You just can't move your lover in.
	We have a morality clause, something that we have in Texas.
	It basically says that Hold on, I gotta stop you there.
	This is happening in Texas.
	Yes.
	I knew you lived in Texas now.
	This is happening, this whole thing is going on in supposedly the most conservative state in the country.
	Yes, and originally we started our divorce in Ohio.
	And Ohio actually would treat a woman like myself way better.
	We actually would have got spousal support, someone like me would get spousal support for life unless we remarried.
	But in Texas, it's worse.
	They can walk away with their six-figure income, leave you homeless with hardly any child support, while they go right off into the sunset in a skirt, and you had to figure out how you're gonna put your life together, pay for daycare, pay for three kids, and you're cut down to half the time with your kids, less than half, because I homeschooled them.
	So I had them half the time, plus the when they were with me, they were in school.
	So all the time we had together, because they had to go to public school, he got an injunction against me homeschooling for no reason.
	The homeschooling wasn't even part of the discussion in our divorce pleadings.
	But at the very end, he asked for it and he got it.
	That was in two uh 19 or 2010.
	So and in 2010, the kids were ordered to court ordered therapy where they were coached on the right pronouns to use for their father and told they could no longer call their father dad.
	So me you so the right pronouns, meaning the wrong pronouns.
	Yeah, the wrong ones.
	Yeah.
	So they they had to call their dad, she and her and couldn't call him dad.
	That's right.
	And they had to come up with a new name to call him, which I think is probably one of the most heartbreaking things of the whole thing.
	I mean, they already feeling ghosted, and now you have professionals with the power of the state behind them, telling them that they can't call their father dad.
	Eventually they no longer went along with that.
	So the the kids maintained a relationship with him.
	I guess they had to, even if they didn't want to, they they had to order by the court.
	Right.
	And they loved their dad, but they were very confused.
	And and one was really scared when this initially happened to even go with their dad because of the changes in appearance and the strange people that he was taking the kids around.
	He's obviously insane.
	He's he's just a crazy person, right?
	Uh the sane person doesn't do this.
	Well, it's it's the the root of it is selfishness, and you know, the kids were not a fan.
	They have different relationships with him between the three.
	One has none at all, is not interested, the oldest.
	Uh the middle child maintains a relationship.
	He's a uh traditional Catholic, he's wants to remain present to remind his father who he really is, and he continues to pray for him that he will have a complete conversion.
	And then the youngest is involved with him more than anybody, but um part of that is because the financially she can get what she wants from him.
	Right.
	Okay.
	So they've got these different degrees of relationship now as adults, but at the time, your ex-husband is involved with someone else, and you said has a lover that he's bringing around.
	And is this person, I assume, is in the community.
	Uh yeah, an activist in the community as well, like a like a leading activist in the state of Texas.
	So this is a man or this is a woman.
	It's a woman that um has a beard and is has male pattern hair loss and fat and um you know not very attractive.
	And uh that's that's who he left to be with when he initially left.
	Uh that really did make me feel really bad about myself um when that happened.
	Um but this was a woman who had her breast amputated, and when she did, she walked around in front of my kids with her shirt off, showing the the scars, and she would give herself shots of testosterone in front of the kids, and she uh also asked the kids to help her with those shots, but they did not do that.
	So um, yeah, she also threatened to punish them, and they would get spankings if they misgendered uh my ex-husband, their father.
	They would be spanked by your ex-husband, I guess.
	With his whatever.
	That was a threat.
	And they they would be threatened with spankings if they called their father, him and her.
	It is just so unjust.
	It's just so unjust.
	And you've got to just sit idly by and watch this happen because the courts are telling you to do it.
	And the and the counselor that you met with was encouraging all of this.
	So I sort of cut you off.
	You said this started four years into your marriage.
	You're married for a total of 15 years, you said.
	How does it how do you get from four to fifteen?
	There were instances of cross-dressing in there.
	Um, then there were times that I thought nothing was happening, and I thought everything was fine, of course.
	He was taking the hormones behind my back.
	I I did wonder as a woman, why we lacked um sexual intimacy in our marriage a lot of times.
	And my answer to that, I eventually would come at the end of our marriage when I would find out he was secretly on those hormones, and that lowered his libido.
	And so when he wanted to have another baby with me, then he would stop taking the hormones long enough so that he could get me pregnant, and yeah, and so we could have sexual relations.
	In fact, that's not just me guessing.
	I read about that in numerous messages between him and another lover he had met online when we were still married.
	So someone before that one.
	I assume the hormones don't just affect the sex drive.
	I assume it affects I assume it affects sperm count.
	Right, I probably don't know because I'm to the guessing, but I think it's damaging to the sperm.
	And so um at one point I did have a miscarriage with the um pregnancy that the byproducts of pregnancy uh grew into cancer, and I always wondered if it was because the sperm was there was something wrong with the sperm.
	And in fact, when that happened, he's like, he said, I feel like I gave you cancer.
	And I thought that was a really weird thing to say.
	So in retrospect, I'm thinking, is it possible?
	I'm not a scientist, I don't know.
	I mean, I do know what a woman is, but you're ahead of most scientists.
	Yeah, but I I don't know if that had anything to do with it or not.
	But he seemed to think that it might.
	He at least said this thing.
	He said that thing out loud, and so it always made me wonder.
	And I I do recall on our wedding day, I actually had asked him, just joking, hey, is there he had called me before my bridal brunch and I said, is there anything you need to tell me?
	Last chance before we, you know, take our vows today.
	And he was quiet.
	And I thought, is there something?
	You know, you know, was it really I was just kidding?
	And then he said, Oh no, there's nothing.
	And then years later, he told me that that day he was gonna tell me that he had cross-dressed in his past, but he was afraid I wouldn't marry him.
	So it was in his mind, and he just deceived me and and thought that I was one day going to accept all this.
	But in those years, he would cross-dress occasionally.
	I not write openly out in front of me, like some of these men do, which is just awful the level of use some of the trans widows take with their husbands doing this outlandish stuff and and telling the women they just have to deal with it.
	But I would find out by finding some stash clothes or receipt for some clothes that he dressed up in and threw away.
	Usually I would smell the smell of acetone in the house or in the trash can.
	And that meant he was playing in nails.
	So one time when our middle son was still a baby, and I was pregnant with my third child, he fashioned himself a pregnancy belly.
	You've seen like on Jerry Springer or Dr. Phil or something where the men are trying to find out the experience of their wives when they're pregnant.
	So he tried to pass it off as he's just trying to empathize with me.
	Now, this is our third baby.
	So the time to empathize with me for being pregnant passed many years ago.
	We've done this a few times.
	I think he saw this as his last chance maybe to do this.
	In fact, this was my um third pregnancy.
	So no fourth pregnancy, third baby.
	And he added enormous rest to this thing that he wore.
	And they were made with water balloons.
	It was really bothering my oldest son that he was walking around with this thing on and with woman's clothes over top.
	And he told me this is how he would be um like coercive.
	He would say things like, I'm trying to help help you.
	I'm gonna do all your chores for you.
	Like I had diesel signed chores.
	And he I'm gonna do all the housekeeping, you just rest, and he was buzzing around very happy in that thing he that he made.
	And I finally just told him, I just feel like you're cross-dressing and it's making me really uncomfortable.
	So I wish you wouldn't do that anymore.
	And he wasn't willing to give it up.
	He still kept pressuring me.
	I need to do this so I can understand you, just relax.
	I'm gonna um take all take care of everything, take care of all your responsibilities around here.
	You can just put your feet up.
	So my son, who was very disturbed by this, actually went and destroyed that thing with a pair of scissors.
	Good ones.
	Because it bothered him seeing his dad like that.
	So you can only imagine how it felt when he was a six years older.
	His dad decides he's gonna become a woman, and he goes and gets giant breast implants and a nose job and grows his hair out long and he's hanging his bras all around his trashy apartment for my son to see.
	And whenever he would hug my son, he'd rub his breast up against him.
	People don't think about what this is like for the boys.
	They don't think about what that's like at all.
	I mean dads have a certain feeling when you give them a hug.
	And now their dad was soft and his enormous breast would rub up against them.
	And that made them really uncomfortable.
	Yeah, there's there's a dream, a recurring dream that sometimes people have when a loved one dies.
	And the dream is that the person is still there.
	They just went away.
	They went, they went to a farm upstate.
	I don't know.
	And you see this person again.
	And what makes the dream so agonizing is that you say, Where were you?
	Where'd you go?
	Wait, what?
	I've been, you're still here.
	Oh my goodness, you know.
	And it's uh it's a common thing.
	But it's a dream.
	And you wake up and you say, Oh, okay.
	Good.
	This is a reality.
	That a kid would have to m more so even than a a wife, I guess.
	Though a wife too, would have to deal with every day of just, oh man, I really just turned 13.
	Just got on the baseball team.
	Sure would like to have a catch with my dad.
	Oh, I don't have a dad.
	Well, I kind of do, but he won't he won't be a dad.
	And he insists that I not only tolerate that and move on with it and pretend it's not a but that I celebrate it too.
	I just can't imagine.
	Right.
	Um when he was with the his first lover, she would often try to encourage my son to wear like pride face bracelets to school and tr tell him that he needed to join the it used to be called the gay straight alliance.
	Yeah, we had one at my school.
	It's now called the gender sexuality alliance.
	Um, I think in part because they wanted to incorporate the gender thing.
	Um who cares about those straights anymore.
	They they serve their purpose.
	Right.
	Well, no straight kids are joining that.
	Of course.
	You know, so they would make the announcements all the time at school, and my son said, um, no straight kids are going to that.
	And but she tried to pressure him to go to that, and my son didn't want to do that.
	You know, he he felt like this destroyed his family.
	And you know, you talk about having a game of pitch with your dad.
	And that's the kind of thing that my son missed out on.
	I mean, he was interested in playing baseball.
	He made the baseball team in high school, and he was very proud of himself for that.
	But when every other kid had a father to come pitch with them, he had nobody.
	He was embarrassed for his dad to show up.
	Yeah, of course.
	You know, and and the the last answer to that is that we should all start embracing this so that my kid doesn't have to be embarrassed.
	I would tell you, uh, I can speak for my kids on this.
	That's not what they want.
	They do not want this indoctrination that's going on in the schools.
	They used to put their heads down and cry when there was an event being planned at school for you know, father and son or father and daughter, not because they're jealous about the other kids or they want their dad to be recognized.
	They're sad because they feel like they don't have a father and they're embarrassed by the one that they had.
	Yeah.
	And rightly so, by the way.
	You know, I'm all for honor your mother and father.
	I think you actually always owe respect and even love to your parents, even if you got bad parents.
	Um it is right to be embarrassed by something that is embarrassing.
	If you're if your father engages in extremely shameful behavior and very selfish behavior and all the rest of it, it would be wrong not to feel some embarrassment.
	You wouldn't there'd be something off about you if you didn't feel right.
	And the kids were made fun of when when the other kids would see their father, why is your dad wearing earrings?
	Why why is your dad trying to look like a girl?
	And other parents would ask me, who is that strange woman that was at soccer practice?
	And they didn't want to let their kids play with my kids after they knew the truth because I don't blame them.
	Yeah, I don't blame them because how can you even begin to understand something like that?
	And knowing what I know, I know it's rooted in fetishism.
	Yeah, of course.
	I wouldn't want my kids around that either.
	So I don't blame them.
	But it was the sad reality we had to deal with that, and I'm being called the bigot, you know, for not wanting to be on board with all this for not supporting it.
	I'm accused of being the one who caused this transition.
	You know, even my ex accused me of causing this transition.
	Your ex-husband who you he said that he had been doing this since he was a teenager and he was sneaking around behind your back.
	He says that you caused the behavior that predates you.
	Right.
	Um it's my fault he transitioned because if I just would have given him another chance, he just he wouldn't have done it.
	But he was already doing it.
	That's the reality.
	But unfortunately, for a time, my my kids believed that.
	They believed it was my fault.
	And just like I was supposed to believe while we were married, it was my fault that he cross-dressed because I wasn't um doing the right things.
	You know, wasn't um giving him the attention he wanted or doing the uh sexual things that he wanted.
	And so, you know, what happened in those 14 years.
	I told you about the pregnancy belly.
	There was a time in those not 14, those 11 years, that he after the birth of our first daughter, she wouldn't take a bottle.
	So I was very stressed out with like, I can't even leave the house for more than an hour and a half because she has to have a uh she has to be breastfed.
	Um so he offered to breastfeed her.
	Yeah.
	How'd he plan on doing that?
	That's what I wondered at the time.
	I I wondered like how could of course I was not on board with that.
	That's absurd.
	And he kept bringing it up, like pressuring me.
	I said, no, he's yeah, I I can help you.
	It was always I'm helping you, and I'm trying to understand you.
	I'm trying to give you a break.
	I said, no, don't ever bring it up again.
	He had sent me articles on how men in third world countries were able to lactate and to, and I'm like, we're not desperate.
	You know, I'll just, I'll just breastfeed until she's done breastfeeding.
	It's a short phase in life, you know.
	But men can, especially if they're pumped with all these chemicals and poisons and things that the modern pro-trans movement pushes.
	They they can produce something.
	And men have memory glands, they can produce something.
	This is in no way established as safe by the FDA or anything like that.
	I mean, n no one knows what this means for the babies, but some men who have gone really far down this rabbit hole with enough enough shots in them, w will be able to produce something.
	Uh this is I can't imagine the best for the baby, certainly not the best for your marriage or for anyone's flourishing.
	And so you look at him and you say, uh, no, thanks.
	I'm good.
	We'll figure it out.
	Don't bring it up again or I'm divorcing you.
	That's what I told him.
	I don't even know how I stayed after he even brought that up.
	But people need to understand that trans widows, um, when we're in those relationships, we're dealing with narcissism, we're very gaslighted.
	Most of us have experienced different forms of abuse, whether it be physical, sexual, emotional, and financial, usually all four of those.
	So that's why we stayed through these absurdities and atrocities.
	And you know, and because you're trying to make it work.
	Definitely, I mean, the to me, divorce is hard enough on children.
	It definitely has consequences that society doesn't want to talk about anymore since we've normalized the destruction of family.
	But I also didn't want my kids to be alone with someone who's this unhinged.
	So I thought I could maybe can control this because he loved me and I loved him and we cared about these kids that we could somehow keep it in in balance and keep things from derailing.
	But uh, I just didn't have that kind of control.
	You know, there's the internet where he found all this stuff on, I'm sure I didn't know anything about these types of fetishes, especially regarding um men breastfeeding, and that is a form of fetish.
	Yeah.
	And now I'm convinced for him it was too.
	Of course.
	And he was trying to have that experience with our daughter.
	And that should have been considered in the custody here.
	I mean, we used to protect children.
	Yeah.
	We used to protect family and honor the truth.
	And we had some type of way in society of just keeping social norms.
	But by the time I had gone to court in 2001, that wasn't the case.
	I mean, before that, a man doing what he was doing, I was in a support group for women whose husbands cross-dressed.
	It was for Christian women.
	And only two of those women had their husbands transitioned.
	And none of the women who were divorced in that support group, none of their women shared custody with their ex.
	None.
	This was a landmark case in Texas when he got shared custody of the kids.
	And that's because things had evolved to such a point in our society that now, and this was a Republican judge too, by the way, now we're not protecting the kids.
	We're being apathetic.
	We're saying like pretending like it doesn't matter.
	But at this point, in two 2023, it's even worse.
	Because if I don't validate that stuff, if I don't agree with it and teach it, I'm the one who's gonna lose my kids.
	Right.
	But in fact, even in 2010, I was asked in court, how will you, as a Christian conservative woman, how are you gonna co-parent with this you know, lovely trans woman over here.
	Not only is transgenderism accepted as true, an absurd ideology is not accepted as true, but transgender identifying people are now a protected class.
	So now they are the chief victims.
	It's it's their well-being.
	Right.
	Supposed well-being that that the courts are primarily concerned with, even in Texas, even with a Republican judge, with Republicans like that who needs Democrats.
	Right.
	And I would remind people that in Texas we have uh trifecta Republican leadership.
	We have majority Republicans in both chambers, the House and the Senate, a Republican governor, Republican Lieutenant Governor, Republican uh attorney general.
	And in Texas, You can a man who is married can go change his documents legally to reflect a lie that he is a woman.
	And that is what my ex did before we went to court.
	Before we went to court, his he was legally a woman.
	So I was now divorcing a woman on paper.
	So you're a lesbian.
	Right, a paper lesbian.
	A paper lesbian.
	According to the courts, you're a lesbian.
	Yeah.
	So I guess the therapist uh is right after all.
	She had a point.
	When we all go through the looking glass, I guess she had a point.
	So your your husband, you find that he's getting into all this kind of weird porn stuff.
	He is, as you, I mean, it's a hideous, it's like a horrifying way to put it, but he would have been using your daughter as an instrument for his sexual ratification had you allowed this breastfeeding insanity to go on.
	He was already wearing items of her, like some of her accessories, her like bows.
	I mean, this is a big this is a baby girl.
	When we were divorced, she was five years old.
	He was already wearing items of her clothing.
	I couldn't stay and let him violate her the way that I had been violated.
	Right.
	You know, putting on clothes out of my closet and realizing they're stretched out, realizing my high-heeled boots are stretched out and my panties stretched out because he had been in them.
	I guess the disconnect, nothing surprises me anymore.
	This still does a little bit.
	Had you walked in on your husband with another woman, you would have every right to kick him to the curb, you know, scream at him, yell at him, he's the bad guy, you're the good guy.
	Had you walked in on your husband looking at porn, which is increasingly, I think becoming prominent in these cases of transition.
	In fact, the the guys behind the Matrix movies, the cat which Wachowski brothers, who are now the Wachowski sisters.
	Right.
	Well, one of them admitted that it was pornography that made him start to transition, that he got down this rabbit hole of porn and he started to fantasize about being a woman, and now he's chopped himself up and looks like a woman.
	So we know this happens.
	If you walked in on your husband looking at porn, I I think even today you would still be considered in the right to yell at him and say, You're you're the bad guy, I'm the good guy, get some help, quit doing this.
	This is absolutely degenerate, you know, cut it out.
	But for some reason, because the pornography and the obscenity and all the prurient stuff has to do with him pretending to be a woman, it's okay.
	I guess so.
	I mean, my ex actually had told me, even fairly recently when I asked that he never watched porn while we were married, and still does not to this day and has not ever.
	That's his claim when I asked about it, because my daughter told me that he watched porn in front of her.
	So I went back and asked again to my daughter.
	Your dad said this did not happen.
	Did this happen?
	She said, Oh, yes, it did happen.
	He watched porn.
	She would sleep on the couch when she had visitation with him.
	And he would be in there watching pornographic videos in front of her, according to her.
	So do you believe?
	I think I have my answer.
	I don't know.
	I believe my daughter, of course.
	Yeah.
	Um, especially after years of being lied to, and just knowing what I know now about the uh Otagonophiles, which are men who are aroused by the idea of themselves being women, knowing a lot about that and seeing what I've seen online, which wasn't as prevalent back then as it is now.
	I believe her.
	I believe that he once again, this is another lie.
	But it's just insane that society is accepting all this, and they don't recognize the experiences of these children what they're going through.
	My children were exposed to sex toys at their father's house.
	They just found lying about the house, like openly on the bed.
	He had two of my children sleeping with him and his lover and in their bed that they shared.
	That is entirely inappropriate.
	And in addition to that, this lover threatened to kill my kids, the female to male that on testosterone, threatened to kill my kids, threatened to kill my ex-husband, and threatened to kill me.
	And the kids were telling their therapist about the court-ordered therapist.
	They told her about abuse and neglect at his house.
	They weren't telling me all this all the time.
	Because they were protecting me.
	Because I already was so devastated by everything that had happened.
	But they told her, and she did nothing about it.
	And so we went to court the second time when he decided to sue me for having the audacity to tell them you can't have your lover move in sleep with my and sleep over with the kids.
	Yeah, and sleep with them, by the way.
	So for doing that, I was sued for full custody of the kids.
	And when I fought back, I did win.
	But and I got that um abusive person removed from their lives.
	But at the same time, I had to depose this therapist to get it on the record about the abuse.
	But I shouldn't have had to do that.
	We should have had common sense to protect the children the first time in court.
	I don't know much about therapists.
	The little I know is that I thought they had an obligation to report if there were they do.
	Everybody in Texas, by the way, is a mandated reporter.
	Everybody.
	So anybody that knows of abuse has to report, not just a teacher, not just a therapist, but she definitely had a duty to report.
	So why didn't she do it?
	When she was asked on the record why she didn't do it, she didn't think that CPS would do anything in Harris County where I live.
	So what?
	So what that absolves you.
	Yeah.
	Oh, so you don't want to w spend the five minutes of your day?
	So the kids had no one to fight for them.
	Um I feel really bad that I didn't or felt that I couldn't do more for them because I didn't know about it.
	I didn't have money to go to court every time something went wrong.
	But when I finally did do something, what I feared would happen would happen.
	He came with uh well-funded lawyers who he didn't have to pay.
	These were activist lawyers with an uh transgender activist law firm that took up his cause because they wanted they wanted to have uh to defend parental rights of uh transgender father.
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	Let's get back to the table.
	We were at uh I was at a meeting with the court ad lightum for the kids, and a courier came in with a check from a donor to give her from one of these um activist organizations.
	She got paid by them.
	So they asked me, are you okay with this?
	I'm like, well, I mean I'm what am I gonna do that?
	Yeah, you know, you're getting paid by his half.
	I had to pay my half out of my pocket.
	Uh his house would be was being paid by uh activist.
	So it was just all very lopsided.
	Uh fortunately the ad lightum was very freaked out by everything that was going on.
	She, despite being liberal herself, was actually freaked out and was on the side of the children.
	She actually did have a heart for children.
	You know, in an earlier age, not that long ago, decades ago.
	People who would engage in this kind of behavior would be locked up in padded cells and told the truth and put into counseling to reconcile their fantasies with reality.
	And today.
	We're not quite at the point where you're being put in a padded cell, but the legal system is pretty tilted against you and against your children and against any person who would speak the truth.
	I mean, to you my my relationship to this issue is not even in the same stratosphere of what you're talking about.
	I just say things on camera.
	And I found out just a couple of days ago that uh I I will be permanently removed from YouTube, which is obviously the largest video sharing platform in the world, owned by Google, which is controls the flow of information around the entire internet in the public square.
	I will be nuked.
	I will per be personally banned forever if I persist in saying that these men are men and refer to them as he and him.
	I'm not the only one, obviously.
	They're going after anyone with a sizable platform who who says this.
	Which means that for all intents and purposes.
	If the people who control public discourse in a republic where you govern yourself by speaking to one another, if they are saying you have to believe in transgenderism, or you cannot speak about the issue, then that's it.
	That means transgenderism is established in law and you're just out of lock, or and the pe the actual victims of this, because I'm a guy who speaks on camera, the people who actually have to deal with the day-to-day of what this means for your family, for your children, for everything.
	Yeah, you're out, sorry.
	I mean, it didn't even have to be codified into law to be enforced by the courts, because it already is like in my case, when I went to court every day was a battle over pronoun usage, trying to get me to use the preferred pronouns of my ex-husband.
	And with the threat that I could be held in contempt.
	Luckily the judge didn't want to go along with those requests.
	Instead, she asked me on the final day, how do you feel about that?
	How do you feel about using those pronouns?
	And I said, Well, I think that's very intolerant of them.
	The people who say that they want tolerance.
	That's not what they want.
	Yeah.
	They don't want tolerance.
	They want complete submission to their new state religion.
	And even without co codifying it into law, you see where we're at, because we don't have a common morality anymore in our country.
	So this has swooped in in its place and it's being enforced by like corporate corporations and a lot of big money.
	And all the big corporations.
	Yeah.
	I mean, in Texas, a father lost custody of his son over this.
	I mean, he's not the only one.
	People think it's a one-off, but it's not.
	The year before, in 2021, on the Senate floor, a mother testified, she she was testifying against the bill to stop the transition of minors.
	She testified that her hu ex-husband was cut out of her kid's life because he didn't affirm the the transition.
	He didn't affirm it.
	So he was cut out, just like Jeff Younger.
	It's right there.
	It's on video.
	The transition of the kid, you mean.
	Right.
	The minor.
	Yeah.
	With surgeries.
	Her daughter had surgeries.
	But the and it's right on be admitted right on tape.
	I have it on my rumble because YouTube won't allow it.
	But the mother's admitting that she had the father completely cut out of her kid's life over not affirming the transition.
	This was probably a loving father.
	And those aren't the only cases.
	People just can't speak out.
	Just like for years you weren't hearing from me or women like me, because when you're married to these or married to them, what can you do?
	But when you divorce them, then you're under a the courts.
	So you might get drugged back in the court and they'll bring up a video like us talking right now and say, how can she be expected to co-parent?
	Right.
	So I couldn't really speak as openly about this until the kids were older.
	I I did before we were um out from under our court um decree or divorce decree, because they were old enough, and I I I actually know that his current spouse would not want our kids.
	She didn't want any kids.
	So I felt pretty sure he wasn't gonna try to get custody away anymore.
	But also because I had the assurance that I would beat him in court because we have it, we have enough.
	And some of the things I shared.
	Is the current spouse that person who was threatening and sleeping in the bed with your children?
	No, there was a court injunction to uh I got a court order that she couldn't be around the kids anymore.
	And so he had to follow that, and that relationship ended uh around the same time that he also got a job in another state outside of Texas and he moved.
	So this was good for us because we had less interaction, less corrupting the kids uh for a while, and he met someone else.
	He actually married a woman.
	So and then they had a regular woman.
	Um well, she identifies as a lesbian, and uh they uh win all these like female golf championships together.
	Yeah, I'm sure he does.
	Yeah, I mean he's he's hitting from the female tees now.
	So and he grew up on a golf course, you know.
	Wow.
	Yeah.
	It's my only chance I ever have at winning any golf tournaments.
	That's it.
	I I mean, I know.
	So, but you know, so he's cheating.
	And uh, you know, he had his uh kids help him cheat uh on the golf course.
	I think it was a horrible lesson having them be uh caddies.
	Yeah, my younger children when they were visiting him in the summers on their summer breaks on their mandated visits, uh caddy for him.
	Well, he's cheating, essentially cheating, because it's allowed.
	Yeah.
	You you mentioned that your son is a traditional Catholic.
	I I am also a mackerel snapping, uh, you know, traditional papist.
	And so the Catholics famously say, no divorce.
	And this has been the teaching of the church for 2,000 years.
	And uh there is such a thing, however, as annulment.
	And I think in the popular culture, sometimes people don't really get it.
	They think it's just Catholic divorce, you know, but but it's not because the difference is annulment asks, was this marriage valid in the first place?
	And so there are annulment investigations.
	And one of the things that one looks for in an annulment investigation is was something concealed was did did the parties enter into this marriage knowing what they were getting into, or was some really important fact concealed?
	One such example perhaps might be what your husband concealed from you that you know he was he was cross-dressing.
	So uh that would seem to be an exemplary uh, you know, uh example of that.
	Well, that and in the Catholic teachings, uh taking of the hormones which made him sterile.
	Yeah.
	And trying to prevent uh a baby would be also anything.
	Right.
	No, I mean the lit, you could go through a litany of of the things that that obviously went wrong here.
	But I guess then it has me wondering when you got married, you're Christian.
	You're getting married and you know, at Christian ceremony, whether it's a nuptial mass or something like that.
	Uh is your husband Christian?
	Does he do you guys agree on what marriage is, or are you coming from totally different backgrounds?
	No, we totally agreed.
	We actually met in youth group while we were in college.
	So and we had we actually got married at the church that we met at our children were in pageants.
	We actually we were Methodists and our our kids were in and this particular church, the one that we got married at is still a conservative Methodist church.
	It hasn't adopted the um gay marriage mindset.
	It's like the last conservative Methodist church.
	It might be one of the last ones in Texas.
	Um we are members of another smaller Methodist church, which was also conservative back then, it isn't so much now.
	But we were active in our church.
	I was involved with the homeless ministry, the women's club, and he was in the choir in the men's club.
	And you never would have thought this would be our our family that we were gonna experience all of this.
	We actually lived in this Cape Cod style home with a white picket fence and our three kids and everything looked really perfect.
	We really, really had a white picket fence.
	I mean, and beautiful children.
	And when he did all this, I just couldn't believe he would do that to our kids.
	I mean I would just be Thinking on my way to work or to drop them off at school or my way from dropping them off at school.
	How could he do this?
	How could he just throw it all away?
	Yeah, treat us like trash, basically.
	Throw it away is the right way to phrase it.
	I just would picture him setting out trash bags and those symbolized us that he was just putting us like trash on the curb, leaving us broke and homeless.
	And I had a beat up van, that's all I had, and it was I could barely keep it running.
	And that's just not taking care of your family.
	And it's very cowardly and selfish to do just because you want to do something that supposedly will make you happy.
	And you see it so much more clearly with drug addicts.
	I think of Hunter Biden, who good enough looking guy, was in the military, it didn't work out that well for him.
	Uh, you know, comes from a politically very important family, graduate of Yale Law School.
	This guy could have anything he wants in the world.
	And what does he want most?
	What is he willing to give up his whole life for just to pursue?
	Crack and hookers and filming himself doing it.
	And you you look at it and you think, man, if people weren't getting hurt in all of this, it would be really funny.
	It's a f it's a funny thing to think that somebody could have everything and a good life and then give it all up for crack and hookers.
	It's so dark, you would either laugh or cry.
	And you would apply it to your situation.
	You got the white picket fence, you got the whole family.
	And you say, okay, you can have all of that or fish nets.
	You say oh, fish nets every time.
	Yeah.
	It is it's absurd and it's an atrocity for the family, our family and other families like ours that this is being prioritized over the well-being of children over the commitment of marriage.
	And churches are okay with it.
	And corporations are celebrating.
	I mean, cracker barrel this week with their pride statement.
	I can no longer eat there.
	And I I just cracker barrel.
	It's cracker barrel.
	I mean, I don't want to go to any business and spend my money someplace where they're celebrating the destruction of my family.
	Yeah.
	But they're celebrating what actually hurt my kids.
	And probably it was one of the most painful experiences of my adult life.
	And and probably may remain that way for the rest of my life.
	Almost certainly it will.
	The the queen of all vice, not even just the weird sex stuff, but just pride.
	I mean, pride is the deadliest of the seven deadly sins, goes before destruction and a haughty spirit before a fall.
	The fact that this has been embraced is scandalous.
	And so, yeah, of course, I can't drink the Bud Light, I can't go to Target.
	I guess now I can't go to cracker barrel either.
	Isn't that isn't that ridiculous?
	But on this point of religion, and you guys meet in church and you know you're you're quite religious.
	I guess that's the part that's so hard to understand.
	The Christian view of this is certain things are true and certain things are false.
	And man has a nature, and we could go on for hours about you know body and soul interact with one another, and man is a composite being, and there's many millennia philosophy on this and theology, and so we say, okay, I can say with reasonable certainty, you, Tracy are a woman.
	We can know that.
	And that means that you have certain rights, and it means you have certain obligations.
	And when you're a mother, you have obligations to your children, when you're a wife, you have obligations to your husband, and vice versa.
	Maybe you don't like that, maybe you're Chris, you maybe you don't like Christianity or you don't believe it, but okay, but at least that's a vision, okay?
	And it's a vision grounded in truth and reality.
	And some things are true and some things are false.
	And if you if you think so, some things that are not true, we're gonna try to correct your misperception.
	Right.
	What is the alternative pride vision of all of that?
	Beyond do whatever the hell you want, no matter who it hurts.
	I mean the whole thing boils down to do as thou wilt, right?
	And that's really not a good motto for living our lives.
	The the first and only commandment of the church of Satan, I believe.
	Yeah, that's right.
	Yeah.
	So unfortunately, things have shifted so much in our society.
	We don't protect what was good.
	And we don't have a shared morality anymore.
	So people look at you and me and say, well, you just want to have a theocracy.
	We never Who doesn't?
	Yeah.
	I mean, at this point, at this point, would be.
	But they do too.
	They just want it with a without without the rate the real Theo.
	But we didn't start with a theocracy, and now maybe we're seeing the uh, you know, the problem with that rebellion against uh the the original church.
	Maybe we're now seeing the problem with that.
	But we're definitely seeing that when we had a shared morality, even without having theocracy in the United States, it was a good experiment because we had a shared morality.
	Now that we don't, it's all coming apart.
	And I think that's why there's this feverish adaptation, you know, this feverish adoption of this transgender movement.
	Yeah.
	Because it has the ability to destroy everything.
	If you can't have truth in court, if you can't have truth in law, uh if you you just then you can't have justice.
	I mean, I think of the example of this girl in Louisiana.
	I can't think of her name.
	It's like something grace, but it was a famous case.
	I think there's a documentary out about her now.
	And she was adopted from the Ukraine, and she ends up, she has dwarfism.
	They take, they take her home, give her her first bath, and the parents discover that she's um has like signs of puberty, such as developing pubic care.
	So they think that she must be older.
	They then abuse her to try to get it out of her that she is 22 years old.
	They end up abandoning her in an apartment.
	And so when that comes time to charge these parents, they had a they had a doctor tell them that she was a child based on bone scans.
	So there was science proving the age.
	But when it came time to charge, she was the girl was not allowed in court to say that she her true age.
	She couldn't refer to herself as being a minor at that time, and she even had a lie about what her birthday was.
	Her birthday, the court made her say it is what was on the um change, the re-age birth certificate.
	So right now in every state in the United States, and including Texas, you can get your identification, your uh vital records, everything changed to the gender identity that you're taking on.
	So the sex marker gets changed.
	So my ex changed his.
	And anybody, people are changing their kids' markers.
	We don't have a law stopping that.
	We didn't actually have a law allowing it.
	It's being done through the courts.
	We should be codifying into law.
	What is a man?
	What is a woman?
	And sex.
	And sex does not mean gender identity.
	That's the only way to co you know, to live, coexist with this and maintain your rights.
	Because it's our rights against their rights, and only the powerful win.
	And when you're in court and they change the birth certificate.
	You then have to use the the fake pronouns.
	You're legally obliged, you know, obligated.
	You could be held in contempt of court for not using the right.
	That's what they tried to do to me.
	You know, there's a story.
	There will be judges that go along with that now.
	Well, they have don't they have to now?
	I there's a story my priest used to tell of I don't think it's apocryphal.
	I think it was a real story.
	Second World War, Nazi Germany, there's an opera singer who's doing a show, and she finds out there's some muckety mucks from the party and the audience, and she doesn't like them very much, and she says, I'm not gonna perform.
	And one of their representatives goes back and says, You'll you'll perform.
	She says, I'm not gonna do that.
	And they say, Do you know that we can make you sing?
	And her response is you can make me scream, but you can't make me sing.
	You're sitting in court.
	I guess they can make you scream.
	I guess they can't.
	They can't make you violate your reason.
	Turn your they can and they can create a lot of temptations to do it.
	Right.
	And they can make it really, really hard for you, and they can punish you.
	But what they want to do is they want to be able to make you sing.
	Two plus two does equal five.
	And you, and not only will you say it, you'll damn well believe it.
	Yeah.
	And if you don't, you're a bigot, and you shouldn't be allowed to engage in society anymore.
	You shouldn't be able to have your YouTube channel.
	You shouldn't be able to just be part of polite society because I'm you misgender.
	I get this all the time.
	You misgendered your ex-husband.
	It's a bizarre of my kids.
	And I'm accused of misgendering.
	It's like I'm, you know, my experience is valid.
	And that's what I tell the liberals.
	Is my experience not valid?
	Because that's what we hear about them.
	Their experience is valid.
	We need to hear them.
	But what about the trans widows?
	What about their children?
	Is are our experiences not valid?
	They are.
	If we're if we have to hear everyone's story, American Library Association, the infamous groomers of the United States.
	Everybody's story matters, and everybody's story wants to be talking.
	When I when I write my book, will it be shelved in the American libraries?
	Will the American Library Association advocate as hard for my story as it does all these transgender stories?
	Trevor Burrus, Jr.
	Your book certainly will be banned from schools.
	There's no question about it.
	No doubt about it.
	Because we were joking earlier about theocracy just now.
	But I I kind of mean it.
	Everybody's got a theocracy.
	I guess technically theocracy is government ordered toward God, government by God.
	So the Libs obviously don't want that.
	But they want they they just want the opposite of religion and theocracy.
	They want it ordered toward their false God.
	I mean, they want to, they don't want a God-ordered society, they want a devil-ordered society or something like that.
	And so they'll enforce that with the same degree of coercion.
	In fact, they'll enforce that with far greater coercion than any theocracy in history because theocracies are restrained by morality, including the rulers.
	Godless societies, the worst tyrannies in history, they haven't been theocracies.
	They've been dictatorships, communist dictatorships, uh where people answer to no one but themselves.
	And they're they're doing it now.
	And you're seeing it even from our nominally Catholic president.
	You know, they they told me, they told me if we elected a Catholic president, we'd replace the American flag with the flag of a religion.
	And guess what?
	That's exactly what we did.
	The White House not only flies the pride flag, not and not that just the pride flag, the kind of militant terrorist pride flag with the BLM and the whatever.
	But the president violates flag code to put the pride progress flag center.
	Yeah.
	Flanked by the star-spangled banners.
	And he says, tweets out the picture, and he says, let everyone hear this.
	America is a nation of pride.
	Yeah.
	Might be the first true thing Joe Biden's ever said.
	Yeah, it is, it probably is the first true thing he's said in a long time.
	And it's not lost on me that that flag is a flag of the new world order.
	Trevor Burrus, Jr.
	Well, you could see you could see at Rockefeller Plaza, just a sea of these flags.
	And I thought, you know, what the liberals are really more the squishes, the kind of don't ever use the government, just leave everyone alone, hands-off kind of people.
	What they'll say is, well, look, conservatives, if you insist upon your vision of the good in society, why the liberals might do the same to us with their vision.
	I think, oh gosh, can you imagine?
	Yeah.
	Wow, what would that look like?
	I have to worry about a hypothetical future when I'm dealing with the re the reality practically right now.
	So given how public all of this is now.
	Have you received threats?
	Have you received you obviously received some praise, at least for me and you know, uh like-minded people, but you're a public figure now.
	Um, sometimes, not too much.
	Um, yeah, I'm a person of faith, and I really believe that God has provided his protection over me and my family during all of this, sharing this story as much as I have.
	And uh, while sometimes I do get some hateful messages, usually the haters they like to send me very offensive things, you know, like pornographic images, things like that.
	Yeah, I've seen that pop up, even just on social media, you know, people.
	It's it's just weird how all of these things overlap.
	It's the the people who are pushing these radical leftist views, they're always posting pornographic content.
	They often post devil imagery.
	They often they often I mean overt, satanic, demonic kind of images.
	You mentioned you're a person of faith.
	I assume you've seen that.
	Oh yes, I've saw that a lot.
	Um I don't know if you know this, but back in 2019, I exposed the sex offenders and the Drag Queen Story Hour program in Houston, Texas.
	That was you.
	Yes.
	I remember the story.
	That made international news and my show.
	It did?
	Great.
	Thanks for covering that.
	And one of the things that I saw in a lot of their social media was witchcraft and devil worship.
	And I saw that as well in looking into the uh like VLM movement and the Antifa as well.
	Yeah.
	And that there's a lot of overlapping.
	God forbid you post anything on social media against furries, you will get sent a whole lot of porn.
	Really?
	Yes.
	I haven't I haven't delved too far into the whole furry.
	Maybe we'll do a long sit-down with a furry or something at some point.
	But I yeah, I don't even realize that's one I putting on fishnets is not my thing.
	But I I guess I could intellectually see how someone could make that a sexual thing.
	The the furry stuff that I can't I can't really get.
	And what is odd is that you have these common threads of, well, it's always very pornographic and it's very corrosive and destructive to real social relationships and to family.
	And it's just demonic.
	I don't, I think, right?
	I mean, or at least the symbolism is always demonic.
	And that's why a lot of these guys, I think, will say, Oh, I don't really believe in the devil or I don't believe in God, or I don't believe in religion, or I don't believe in any of that.
	I just use all of these really specific symbols ironically or something.
	I don't...
	Does the devil care if you believe in him?
	I don't think so.
	So as a person of faith, I do believe that there's a demonic influence.
	I mean, I guess some people think that's crazy.
	They can think that, but I think that it's real that there is a demonic influence over all of this.
	And you don't know why someone would dress as a furry, and but uh from what I've seen, I think it's the perfect opportunity, just like being in drag, the drag queens, the perfect opportunity for them to hide their real identity from the children they're encountering.
	When you uncovered that story, with the when I when I see these stories, I'm not surprised.
	Some people are surprised.
	But I always think, you know, it's always the ones you most expect.
	At least most of the time.
	Not all the time, but a lot of the time.
	It's the ones you most expect.
	And yet, even after that exposure of convicted child molesters being part of the Drag Queen Story Hour, those programs still exist all over the country.
	Right, because it's being pushed out there under the guise of diversity and inclusion when we all know that what they really want is the opposite of that.
	They want to exclude people of faith and they don't want exclude the truth.
	Yeah, they don't want diversity.
	Do they want our point of view?
	No.
	In a story time.
	I mean, I thought about um having a story time with uh the walrus book.
	Um that's uh Johnny the Walverse.
	Yeah, I thought that would be a good story time.
	I I think I'll I'll I'll give it a go there in Houston, Texas and see and see how the vibrarians, you know, if if they if they if we put it up on the flagpole, if they're gonna salute it.
	Yeah, yeah.
	See if they'll fight as hard for uh the walrus story as they do um Julia and Is a Mermaid.
	Yeah, Maya Kobabi Genderqueer, any of those sorts of books.
	Right.
	So speaking of exclusion and limits and all of this, there's just one thread I want to close up here.
	Despite your husband's degenerate behavior, you fight for the marriage for 11 years, you said, after you this all comes out.
	What happens where you finally say, okay, it's over.
	I mean basically it was him.
	I kept giving him more opportunities to do the right thing.
	And I always would go to him for the answers.
	In fact, I did go to a Christian therapist that told me I had to stop doing that.
	I had to start believing my eyes, you know, what I saw, and quit asking him to give me an explanation or to lie to me about it.
	And I had told him if he continued this, we would get a divorce.
	And when I found out that it was as bad as it really was, and that you know, he had this person he was talking to online, that they their messages together were really disgusting.
	You know, I want to do this to you like a girl.
	I want you to do this to me like a girl.
	Notice I didn't say woman.
	And just the things they were talking about, even talking about having me killed.
	And my ex's response to this person, a stranger to me, talking about knocking me off to get me out of the way, the mother of his children, his response was laughing.
	So how did I end up leaving?
	It was learning about all that, learning about this other person that had he had found to validate what he was doing, who enjoyed that, who wanted to help him transition.
	Um, and finding hormones hidden in my house, even after he said he had stopped.
	And we were going again to another counselor, this time a Christian counselor, and he sat there and said in front of the counselor that this is who I am.
	So at that point, I just there was nothing to fight for.
	Yet, as I told you earlier, he would tell the children that it was my fault he transitioned because I didn't give them enough chances.
	That's just not true.
	Just one more.
	Just one more, I'm sure that would have done it.
	Right.
	After finding the hormones, finding about the other woman who was on board with all the fetishy stuff.
	And murdering you.
	And murdering me.
	Yeah.
	And finding about, you know, years of lies.
	At the end of our marriage, he told me that uh some images I found on our computer when we were early in our marriage before we even had children.
	I thought those were just ugly women in tacky lingerie that I found backed up in our like on our computer.
	And it turns out those were men.
	No wonder they were ugly and had tacky lingerie.
	At the time I thought, why are you looking at these women when you know I'm young and attractive and I had better taste in lingerie?
	And it turns out those were men.
	So just finding about all the deception.
	I believed him one more time.
	He got me to move from Ohio to Houston, because in Ohio they have uh spousal support for life until you remarry.
	And he wanted to divorce me in Texas so that he wouldn't have to pay spousal support.
	So he told me he was gonna be the man that God ordained him to be.
	And once again, even despite the therapist telling me I should not believe him anymore.
	That therapist even saw him, and that therapist was experienced with dealing with abusive men and knew, you know, recognized what was happening.
	I was being gaslighted, and I believed him.
	So we got divorced in Texas.
	It was financially worse for me, but I was at least close to my family who could help and support me.
	So and it opened my eyes a lot.
	And I think this story happening in Texas is a, you know, should serve as a warning.
	A lot of people think this is a very conservative state, and that these things just don't happen there and can't happen.
	And if you do, the state will have your back.
	But this was in 19, you know, the beginning, you know, this goes far back before Bruce became Caitlin.
	And the state didn't have my back.
	The state absolutely was involved in the destruction of my family, and they still are involved in this destruction of families and harm to children, because that's what this ultimately does.
	When you destroy the family, which is a safe place, we talk about safe places, the safe place for children Is in the natural family where and that's the child's right.
	And so to have their mother and father that love them and to care for them.
	And Texas does not have your back.
	So if people need it, I remember I thought, oh, this organization that I work with as an activist, mass resistance.
	I thought years ago, oh, I'm so glad we're never gonna need that here in Texas.
	Little did I know.
	Little did I know.
	So let it serve as a warning.
	But ultimately it came down to him.
	That's how it came to an end.
	I I saw how bad it really was.
	You know, and it was so bad that, you know, I mentioned that a lot of the women go through being abused in different ways, financially, uh, sexually, physically.
	My children were seeing me be beat up by my husband because he was defending this, you know, himself and all of this.
	I was in the way.
	And if I wanted-they they figuratively saw you beaten up.
	Oh no, they saw me physically beat up.
	So because I wanted to see his phone, you know, I I wanted to see if he was lying to me.
	And uh I one time I wanted to just go upstairs and get something, and I he didn't want me to leave the house.
	So he blocked the stairs and pushed me down the stairs.
	Now I had forgotten about times that he had hurt me because I was used to putting things out of my mind and sticking to the storyline, white picket fence, beautiful family, and we're not those people.
	But we we became an episode to Jerry Springer.
	Yeah, that's what we became.
	And I forgotten about being pushed down the stairs, but my kids, they didn't forget.
	Yeah, they don't forget their mother being physically abused, and I don't forget the emotional stuff.
	And to me, um, the stuff that he tried to get me to do in the bedroom, that sexual abuse, trying to coerce me into being acting like we're lesbians, him dressing up as a woman and and we're gonna do these things like girls.
	And I didn't go along with that, but that's coercion.
	And uh, you know, insisting on being disubmissive and in the bedroom.
	That's the kind of thing that that fetishy behavior does to a marriage.
	And I know I'm kind of painting this picture that people don't really want to think about.
	It's a pretty ugly picture.
	But what I'm explaining, and much worse happens to women who are married to these narcissistic men that society now celebrates and protects.
	Yeah, that's not the cover of Vanity Fair.
	That's a darker reality.
	Right.
	It makes me think of people now who really want to compartmentalize society.
	They say, oh, what I do in my private life, that's doesn't affect my public life.
	What I do on my computer doesn't affect my real practical life.
	As though we're different people, as though we can be a guy could have the white picket fence, the nice family, he can look like an upstanding family guy.
	And if he's spending his nights looking at weird stuff on the computer, putting on weird clothing, staying saying, oh, what who how what does it matter to you what I do in my bedroom?
	That's just in the privacy of my bedroom.
	Well, the the more you indulge in that perverse behavior, the more perverted you're going to become.
	That's how habits work.
	It's how vice works, and it's how virtue works.
	And it is gonna bleed out.
	And pretty soon that white picket fence is not gonna look so white anymore.
	Pretty soon that family's not gonna stay together anymore.
	Even think about the role of the state here, the fact that in Texas, don't mess with Texas, come on, come and get them.
	This is good red Texas, that Texas would indulge in all of this.
	Well, of course, because just as in our personal lives, so too in public life, you're either gonna be pursuing good or bad.
	You're either gonna exalt the truth or you're gonna disregard the truth and you're gonna live in lies.
	And we're we're often fighting these things, and we have temptations to go toward the bad stuff and not to practice the virtues.
	If if you if you move toward the good and true and beautiful and God and you practice virtues, you can keep that white picket fence.
	Even though the storms are gonna come, it's gonna get a little gray, you gotta repaint that fence every now and again.
	But if you don't, and you just allow your worst appetites to run away with you.
	That fence is going to disappear even Texas.
	Even Texas is going to disappear.
	And a lot faster than many people think.
	It's already not what people think it is.
	But you know, as for your example of public life versus private life, and can you keep them separate?
	I'll just share the example of a librarian in Texas that I discovered when I was investigating Drag Queen Story Hours.
	One particular perverted drag queen came on my radar, and his name was Kitty Litter.
	This guy acts like I have just totally harassed him just by sharing what he had on his social media with the like city council and the mayor and the public.
	Because this guy and the guy was a pro had a record for prostitution, and he was allowed to go to, he was invited by the librarian and allowed to go and read to the children, entertain them and talk to them about gender identity and sexual orientation, along with another member of the American Library Association, LGBTQ round table.
	And that librarian, as it turns out, at night was a BDSM leather daddy.
	With he and his partner of 20 years they've been married to, they were um they operate the spanking booth at the local leather and gear club in in Austin and a coveted position.
	A very prestigious role at the at the Leather Daddy Club is.
	Right.
	With his with his spouse that he does that with.
	And this guy is an elementary librarian.
	And not and and the worst part is he was wearing this medallion that was uh representative of the leather club.
	He wears that even at work.
	And even worse than that, he's got a tattoo on his arm of a ruler.
	You can only imagine what that measures.
	Which the picture I discovered of him at the leather man of leather convention in Chicago that he was at M O Listen.
	Men of Leather.
	I mean, that don't don't ever search their hashtag because it's disgusting.
	Um I found pictures of him giving a symbol for that for that um sexual act.
	And I have that on my website, madmama bear.com.
	I expose that.
	The guy still works at the elementary school in Austin.
	In fact, he now decides which children will be part of their gifted and talented program and interviews people to be um accepted into that.
	It's a special school.
	Well, because I assume he's a protected class now.
	You think of people of color and now men of leather.
	I didn't know if that was.
	It should be a protected class, I guess.
	And and I did a FOIA request for their um their email and text exchanges, and the librarian was communicating with the drag queen about me.
	They're talking about how upset I was gonna be when I discovered that the drag queen prostitute who had already exposed as being involved in the drag queen story hour in Austin libraries was gonna be entertaining kids at the public school.
	And he also coached him on how to get around the background check at the school.
	Pretty soon there won't be a background check.
	Well, I mean, there wasn't a background check in the uh the case with the drag queen story hour in Houston Public Libraries.
	They they were supposed to do them, but that would have been a microaggression, don't you know, to actually do background checks for drag queens and transsexuals who you know want to spend time with people's kids.
	I'm very even keel.
	It's probably the reason that I don't have more views on my show is that I don't become visibly angry very often.
	Takes a lot.
	Your story fills me with such a deep abiding anger at just the at every single level, constant injustice of it all and the worsening injustice of it all.
	It I might have my once a year outburst of just yelling or something.
	It would it's It's so it's just so evil what they've done and what they've done to the country and what they've done to families and what they're doing to children, what they're doing to women and what they're doing, and they're doing it to the applause of very, very bad, rotten people who are who are being encouraged on a path of delusion and perversity and degeneracy.
	And the fact that it happened in Texas, I can't get past it.
	And I just think if if it just you, you're the only person who we're all counting on to know is no one else going to stand up?
	Is no one else going to We need more people to stand up for the right things.
	You know, Texas just passed a law to protect women's sports.
	Yay.
	But we haven't protected the bathrooms.
	But those are just extra, you know, topics.
	The main thing is what is a woman, what is a man?
	What is a family?
	What does sex mean?
	What is a family?
	And are we ordering society and law in such a way to protect the family, which is the ultimate safe place for children.
	And we're not doing that.
	Texas had the opportunity this year to advance legislation.
	There were there were bills written that would define what a man and a woman is in law.
	We need to do that now, as crazy as that seems, because we didn't before, because we used to have common sense and we didn't have this new religion that's being foisted on all of us.
	But we had the chance and we didn't do it.
	Just like in 2021, we didn't protect the children.
	We still haven't accomplished protecting families or parents or parental rights when they go up against this issue in court.
	We can still be medically kidnapped and taken to another state because all institutions are not on our side.
	We may have stopped some doctors from doing it right in Texas, but we haven't stopped them from what I found, because I messaged a doctor acting like I was a 17-year-old, saying that I wanted to get the hormones and stuff.
	Well, you can get them just $500 is all I need, and I'll have them to you in 30 days after one appointment.
	And you can still do that in Texas.
	And I'm so glad to hear you say it's not just about the girls' sports.
	I like I hope girls have a nice time playing their sports.
	I hope they get scholarships.
	No one cares about girls' sports.
	Three people watch the WNBA.
	It's not about that.
	It's about the justice of it.
	And it's about it's about a fundamental political issue because the the family is the is the basic unit of politics.
	The individual is not actually the basic unit of politics.
	It's the family.
	That's the structure, right?
	Politics means public.
	And so as goes the family, so goes the country.
	As goes the country, so goes the family.
	You can't neatly divorce these two things because one is a microcosm of the other, and both are in turmoil, and you've experienced it in a much more personal way than most people have.
	But many more people are going to experience it in that personal way if if we don't if we don't stand up to defend them both.
	Tracy, thank you so much for coming on.

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