Today I chatted with a couple of my Teamster siblings about their experience working part-time for the multi-billion dollar UPS--detailing unsafe working conditions, harassment and irregular schedules. I asked them how they feel about the current contract fight with the company. Are part-timers aware of their importance in these negotiations, and is there a way to get them more involved? What do part-timers stand to gain from a strong Union contract? How will it affect the company moving forward? How will it affect the union? All of this and more on today's episode. Follow Scott at http://twitter.com/TheArchenteron Listen to Minion Death Cult for more UPS Teamsters updates leading up to the looming strike deadline on August 1st Sign up at http://patreon.com/miniondeathcult to support the show and get a bonus episode every week, a weekly livestream, and 20% off merch
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Stay tuned. - All right, hi, welcome to a special episode Alexander Edward here.
As you may know, I am a Teamster, longtime Teamster, longtime UPS worker, and we've been covering the negotiations going on between the Teamsters Union and UPS, and we are reaching the event horizon here.
As the deadline for ratifying a new contract with the company approaches on August 1st, that is when the old contract expires.
Our new leadership has been fairly vocal about not working without a new contract, although there's been some updates on that saying that if we get a tentative agreement with the company that the leadership likes, I guess we may continue working while we vote on it.
That's going to Be very interesting, especially if that contract then gets voted down while we are continuing to work on a previous contract.
What happens then?
Automatic strike?
Not sure, but a big part of this negotiations, at least From what we can tell, as just rank-and-file members who are not involved in the actual negotiation process, part-timer pay seems to be at the forefront of this contract for the first time in my memory.
I've been 17 years at UPS, 17 years Teamster, and I've never seen leadership This vocal about fighting for part-time pay.
I was a part-time employee for nine years.
Definitely did not feel like anything close to approaching a career or something you'd want to stick around for.
It was more like a temporary thing to get your benefits.
And seeing that shift in leadership has been Encouraging to me, 60% of UPS workers are part time, which essentially means that the company runs on part time labor.
All the drivers you see delivering packages, they're all there for the by and large, they are full time employees.
Everybody who loaded their truck unloads their truck at the end of the night, loads it up onto a trailer.
Those are for like 99% part-time employees.
And I am strongly of the mind that it's about time we started serving those employees as they are union members.
They are our union brothers and sisters.
And so I'm very proud to invite onto the show.
We have Holly, how long have you been working for UPS, and what do you do?
What's your job position?
Yeah, so it's been a little over 11 years now that I've worked at UPS.
I was on the sunrise shift loading package cars for about nine years.
I now work the day sort, so it took me a while to get there, but now I scan packages upstairs.
It's definitely a lot easier than loading package cars.
I also really love working during the day, and I think the fact that I spent nine years on Sunrise is part of the reason why I'm trying to fight so hard for all of these people's wages and rights, because I know how terrible it is.
I've been there, and it sucks.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I feel you about getting a good shift.
That is so important.
You know, I started working at UPS in San Bernardino, which had a fairly small center and the only available options were preload, which is akin to your sunrise, you know, working from like 3 a.m.
to 8:00 AM, something like that, or evening, which I worked, 7:00 PM to like midnight or something like that.
I actually transferred 45 minutes away.
I actually signed up for community college 45 minutes away from myself, so I could have an excuse to transfer to a building that had an afternoon sort, so I could still go to shows or hang out with my friends in the evenings.
So I really do feel you on that.
And we'll get we'll get back to, you know, your experience as a part timer.
But I did want to introduce Scott.
Thank you so much, Scott, for joining us.
Tell us how long you've worked for UPS and what you do for the company.
Yeah, so I actually have a pretty similar story to both of you.
I started on the Twilight Shift 10 years ago, so 10 year Teamster.
I initially worked, same with you, Alexander, where I worked at a facility and ended up transferring to a new facility that is 45 minutes away from where I live.
Specifically to be able to switch over to the day shift because I liked the freedom of being able to work During the day and then be able to like hang out with people at night and because the shift starts a little bit Later than the preload.
It's you know still be able to catch some Z's I'm a member of local 41 in Kansas City I've been a steward for about five years.
My current job is revenue recovery, which is like a I cannot complain in any way.
People call it R&R, early retirement, because it's really incredibly easy work, and I'm very appreciative of that, but that's why I try to devote as much time as I can to my duty as a steward, organizing, getting people to sign up for the union, all that kind of stuff.
I'm proud to do it.
Oh yeah, that makes up for it.
For having one of the very few easy jobs at UPS.
As long as you're a shop steward fighting for your Teamster siblings, that's good.
So Holly, let's start off with you.
Can you describe your experience?
I mean, how do you describe 11 years of experience in a short phrase?
Can you describe some of the struggles you faced working as a part-time employee for so long?
I think one of the biggest struggles working part-time at UPS is one of the things that we're trying so hard to fight against in this particular contract is the whole gig work, the flexibility of being part-time.
The company kind of sees us as somebody who can come in and work whatever time of day, whatever time of night.
You can do whatever job we'll throw you in any part of the building and we don't care.
Just show up two hours early, show up half an hour later.
There's a certain versatility that are required of part-timers.
So, you know, I think it's tough to have to be somebody in a position where you are expected to show up at any point in time and work for any length of time and do any job in the building and yet still get paid less than your full-time counterparts that are doing the same jobs in the building.
Right.
There's this phrase corporations love to use that phrase is part time.
And by the reaction of many Americans, you would think that phrase describes the work being done as opposed to the duration of the work being done.
Because you get a lot of this reaction of like, oh, well, it's a part time job.
That means it's easy or it's a part time job.
That means it's less valuable.
No, obviously not.
Anybody who's worked part-time gigs knows that the hours are there.
They just want to keep you under a certain threshold for paying you benefits.
With UPS, like I said at the start of this little episode, you're doing close to 100% of the inside building labor.
close to 100% of the inside building labor.
That's all real labor.
But when part-timers or when full-timers like myself advocate for part-timers about being paid more, sometimes you get the response of, well, get a second job.
You can't expect to live off of part-time wages.
And what it sounds like you're telling me, Holly, is it's pretty hard to get a second part-time job when you're expected to report at different hours for your shift?
Absolutely.
That's definitely a challenge.
And especially working preload or sunrise, I know they're used interchangeably.
But working sunrise, one of the hard things too was it's hard to not only get a second job, but it's also hard to make appointments because I would make a dentist appointment at, say, 11 o'clock in the morning because, hey, we should be wrapped up by 8.30, 8.45.
You know, that...
Give me some time to get home, take a shower, and get to my doctor's appointment.
Well, you know, turns out that particular day, guess what?
Air's late.
Now we have to work an extra hour, hour and a half on the end of our shift.
And that's not something that we know, you know, six months in advance when we schedule our dentist appointment.
That's something that just kind of happens the day of.
Then your boss gets mad at you because you're saying, well, hey, I have to leave at nine.
I got to go home and take a shower and I have this appointment.
And I've even had supervisors tell me, well, you shouldn't be making appointments in the morning.
When else am I supposed to make them?
Because I'm double shifting.
I have to come back in at 11 o'clock tonight.
So it's not like I can go to a three in the afternoon appointment.
I got to be in bed by two.
So I don't know where you expect me to go see a doctor.
I don't know what part of the American health care system that supervisor is familiar with, but you don't typically get to dictate when your appointments happen.
You're lucky to be able to see somebody in the next six months period.
So yeah, absurd.
And I think, you know, as we do have some of these rights, like if you have a doctor's appointment, I believe like the union will protect you if you need to leave.
But that doesn't stop management from harassing you for making the request or from retaliating against you later.
Now, Scott, what's your experience for part-time been like?
So it's been a mixed bag.
The hub that I came from in Lenexa, Kansas, was an incredibly hostile place and an incredible amount of harassment.
There was a point which my old roommate who also worked alongside me at one point got a hernia and he was basically told like, Hey, why don't you go home and, you know, come back tomorrow and see if you feel any better.
He did that.
He came back and was just like, yeah, no, I think I still have a hernia.
Like, really?
You're reporting this at the beginning of this shift?
Sounds like this is an off the job injury.
Oh, wow.
So there's all sorts of like, you know, these situations where, you know, management is basically trying to Pulling over on workers because they see their workforce is a liability.
1 of the reasons why I ended up going to the facility that I did at moving there.
Is because I was just tired of the constant harassment.
I was tired of how hostile.
And even that kind of like, bled down to the part time workforce because it was a.
Supposedly, Lenexa is the second largest ground hub in the United States, and so there's a lot of people with a lot of seniority there, and you may think that there's a wedge between just the drivers and part-time workers.
There's also a big wedge between, like, people who work what we call 22-3 positions, which is full-time inside, and higher seniority employees, and some of the, like, least senior employees, because There's a lot of sentiment that these new hires don't care about this job.
They'll quit in a couple months.
It can be really difficult to get your bearings in a work environment like that.
And I'm really happy that the experience I've had since transitioning to the facility I'm at has been better.
But that doesn't change the fact that at that facility, that's still going on.
The harassment's still going on.
It's still happening at my facility.
It just has a little bit of a tinge of goodwill towards it.
But there's still just as, like...
There's just as much ill will.
It's just a little bit easier for them to kind of like shove under the rug.
So, yeah, it's it's a mixed bag, but overall, like it's not a fun place to work in the grand scheme of things as a part timer.
My experience working part time, I worked part time for nine years.
I did like almost every job inside the building that a part timer can do.
The worst part about being part-time was absolutely the pay.
I was making like $8 an hour at the time.
But even once, you know, because I was part-time for so long, I would get these incremental raises.
Even once my wage came up, Dealing with supervisors and dealing with management was just such a regular headache.
Like every time we got a new supervisor, because however much people may think there's turnover on the labor side, massive turnover for part-time supervisors because they're not treated any better than part-time labor.
They're sometimes treated even worse because they have no union protections.
So you can see something like a 19-year-old kid get cussed out In front of all of his so-called employees by his manager, you know, and these seen that many times, these people, these these kids that they're hiring, you know, they they pull somebody when they're like 18 or 19 to become a supervisor who themselves have no training, have no like life experience.
And, you know, some life experience, of course, but like, you know, and that's not their fault, but they're asked to be in charge of running a billion dollar corporation.
And just my sense of UPS from that perspective was just, it's astounding how such a profitable and successful company seems to be run by the seat of their pants.
Just in constant panic mode over staffing, in constant panic mode over safety, and to the point where just everybody is yelling at everybody else to just do it.
It doesn't matter if it's safe or not, just do it.
And that's why shop stewards or senior employees who know their rights are so important because we can actually push back against these people.
Go ahead, Holly.
I was just gonna say it.
It always brings me back to, I always laugh about the whole, oh you mean, you mean Christmas happens on the same day every year?
Mother's Day happens on the same day every year?
God, how could we possibly plan for that?
Yeah, absolutely.
And it's crazy the things that supervisors will instruct you to do in the heat of the moment.
I saw supervisors instruct employees, yeah, stand on that slide, which is a slide for packages that is waxed regularly, like lubricant is sprayed on these slides regularly.
I've seen Part-time Supes instruct another employee to stand on that slide to help break jams.
And I had to go up there and be like, no, get down.
Don't stand there.
Go get us equipment.
Go get us a jam breaker.
Go get it.
Go get us what we need.
You don't you don't stand up there.
And it just it really shows you how how little the company actually cares about the people doing this operation as long as
The work gets done and it shows you the importance of a stable like an equal stabilizing force that I've seen the union be because it's you'd be like leaving a maniac up to their own devices, you know, is the metaphor I would use without without the union here as a part timer, you know, like I said before, I've I've seen
Decades of neglect for part-timers from the union.
Holly, can you tell me your experience with the union, maybe with previous leadership, with new leadership, how you feel about the stance the union is taking in these negotiations?
So we have had, since I've been at UPS, we've had the same leadership in our local, or are you talking about local or national level?
I should clarify.
Well, yeah, I mean, you can tell me about both.
I was talking about national, but I'd love to hear about either.
Okay.
Yeah, I definitely think when you look at all the facts, I think national leadership has definitely left part-timers in the dust.
And I think it's because of this whole culture, like you had brought up earlier, you know, part-time.
In America, it's kind of like a lesser kind of job, you know?
And so I think that on a national level, the IBT has kind of always seen us as like, well, these are the least important people.
These are the ones that are going to complain the least.
We're not going to hear as much from them.
And so they're the easiest ones to kind of like, oh, well, we'll take care of You you and you but there's not enough of you to complain.
It's a whole squeaky wheel gets the grease thing You know and and I'd actually just recently seen an article I'd have to if you want me to I can find it but somebody had commented that the part-time wages were actually kept artificially low and And the claim for that was that, well, there's such a high turnover rate with the part-timers that if we can pay them a lower pay rate, because they're going to be gone in a month or two anyway, right?
So if we can pay them a little bit less, then the company will have a little bit more money to pay all of these other senior people.
Now, my rebuttal to that was that they're not really taking care of all of the high seniority people.
They're just using what they save on part-timers Yeah, probably not.
of full timers because I am an 11 year part timer and I feel like I do not make what I should for, you know, working in the conditions that I do and that I have.
Yeah, probably not.
Go ahead, Scott.
I'd like to know.
I know exactly what article you're talking about.
And it's it's very interesting because I think a big reason for that is that within the IBT, there's this expectation that as long as we take care of our full time drivers, we can get something through because the part timers in a lot of cases we can get something through because the part timers in a lot of And it's not because we don't have interested parties that like, you know, are passionate about.
This labor union, it's because of the churn and burn that UPS has been so consistently using for their business model.
And so they, you know, just managed to have these drivers that make themselves think that they have it so good.
And, you know, under, unfortunately, under the current circumstances, a lot of cases, they're right.
Getting paid a top rate of $41.49 an hour Is really good for a full time job in many places in this country and so there's sort of a wedge that the both management and the subtly tries to kind of put between and knowing that they're able to put these contracts through.
But what has been really incredible about our leadership that I'll speak about now is with Sean O'Brien, with Fred Zuckerman, and among a lot of the locals, we've seen a change.
On July 5th, this last, most recent, Sorry, for people who aren't aware, Sean O'Brien's the new president who was voted in last year sort of against the legacy candidate for previous leadership.
The previous leadership being Hoffa Jr.
Had sort of his chosen candidate run in his place as he stepped down and rank-and-file rejected that lineage as a sort of rebuke against Hoffa's previous leadership that we were By and large, fairly disappointed in and O'Brien was sort of the reform candidate was sort of running as a reform candidate.
I don't know if he was running as Teamsters for a Democratic Union candidate.
I know they endorsed him.
It's tricky.
He was running under the Teamsters United campaign, which is associated with TDU.
You can kind of consider them one and the same.
Basically, the reason why he was elected is because of this last contract that I think we spoke about a little bit.
In 2018, we had a contract that was sort of shoved down all of our throats because it was voted down.
And an obscure rule was invoked that required that if less than 50% of the membership vote, that it would require two-thirds of the vote count to actually push through any tentative agreement.
And because we fell short of that two-thirds, it was imposed anyway.
And basically at that point, Hoffa Jr.
and any sort of, like, his accolades were done politically.
And that's why John O'Brien kind of came into office.
Yeah, that previous contract, it lit a fire under rank-and-file members who were paying attention to the labor struggle and the union struggle within UPS, but especially the drivers because it created a new less-paid category of drivers that sort of threatened the entire future of the company as a you know, as a place to have a career, to have a good paying union job.
So that really mobilized and animated we drivers.
But yeah, part timers got that level of screwed just every contract.
So I really am like I think you mentioned, Scott, not surprised that participation in these these conversations or in these votes by part timers is is pretty low to It's not surprising.
And then also, yeah, the turnover rate.
I mean, it's like we hear this business model with Amazon as well.
It's intentional.
It's not as expensive to train a preloader or a loader because they're just not doing it, first of all.
And it's yeah, it's cheaper to just get rid of them before they start getting ideas about their rights or about how much they should be paid or whatever.
And of course, everybody suffers because of this.
But if you have like if you don't have a class analysis or just even like an appropriate disdain for corporate America, you're going to be blaming The people coming through and going out of that rotating door rather than the company whose culture makes that happen.
Sorry, continue, Scott, please.
Absolutely.
Oh, but so this last July 5th, there was a big announcement that contract negotiations had essentially reached an impasse.
And when asked about what that impasse was, because this was actually fairly historic negotiations.
The 22-4 two-tier structure that you talked about has officially, according to all sources, basically been dismantled in negotiations.
They're getting rid of that 22-4 positions and reincorporating them into RPCD, or Regular Package Car Drivers.
The people who deliver packages on the big brown trucks.
On top of that, they were also able to eliminate the forced six-day punch, which is basically forcing drivers to work six days a week.
So if you think about it, any politician would be like, we've got the votes to carry this through.
We've got the support among the people who actually care about their job to get it to 10 agreement passed.
But Sean O'Brien said, No, you're still screwing over part timers.
And when I found out about that, that we were the reason why, you know, they were unwilling to take on a deal.
It was really important.
I felt seen and all my part time colleagues felt seen for a second, like we actually mattered.
And that's huge.
It's a really, you know, like, every contract since 1982 has done nothing but sell part-time workers down the river.
And we finally had a leadership that said, well, politically, we can make this happen, but we're not going to because we actually care about our part-time workers.
Yeah, I agree completely.
That was inspiring for me to see.
And I've said this on previous discussions about these negotiations.
I think leadership, the tone and the sort of goals, the stated goals of leadership, I think it matters so much.
And I think it does and it is going to continue to foster solidarity between full timers like myself and part timers.
When you see your president putting his name on the line, putting his skin on the line for part-timers, it kind of puts things into perspective.
Like, oh shit, maybe I was being an asshole to my preloader.
Or like, you know, that's true.
They do do a lot of work.
And so I think it's extremely important going forward, not just for the well-being of part-timers, but for the health of the union itself.
Yeah, I was gonna say I think that I think the pandemic has something to do with it as well.
I think that a lot of people have kind of realized, you know, going through that, that, hey, you know, your, your boss doesn't care about you.
And I think it would be smart.
For people like the teamsters to capitalize on that attitude and use that as momentum moving forward so i i think it's it's absolutely great that you know that it's part time wages that they walked away from the table for you know i think it's awesome that they have actually kind of.
You know, had a little bit of a reality check here and realized that, hey, we make up a lot of the workforce at UPS and, you know, we're worth something.
You want to call us heroes, you want to call us essential, but you don't want to pay us enough.
And I think, you know, if Sean O'Brien walked away from the table with a subpar contract with part-time wages, I think it would be political suicide.
Frankly.
Absolutely.
So many things.
So we haven't mentioned it.
Part-time starting wage is only $15 an hour.
Incredibly low just in general.
Like I believe you can go work.
Go get a job at Target.
Get paid more for that.
Go get a job at Starbucks.
Go get a job at retail anywhere.
And that's not to say that those jobs aren't also like worth a living wage or worth money, but it's like it's incredibly hard work what people are doing inside the building.
You know, it's bad.
It's literally backbreaking labor.
And so extremely low in that respect.
And just like Amazon pays their employees more.
Like, how are you going to be a unionized company and let Amazon pay more?
And then second of all, like, yeah, part timers are the overwhelming majority.
You know, when we talk about UPS Teamsters are three hundred and forty four thousand strong.
It's like, wow, that sounds like an impressive number.
What happens when you're ignoring 60 percent of that three hundred and forty thousand?
Now is that not just what that number is not the same anymore?
You know, you're not like and so it just doesn't make sense from like a union standpoint to leave all that muscle, all that like the.
Those soldiers essentially in this class war or in this war against the company to like just leave it.
That's like an untapped giant resource, but you have to actually demonstrate that you can get something for these folks that it's worth it for them to put some skin in the game.
Holly, have you noticed any of your part-time co-workers paying attention to this contract?
And does it seem like, whether it's because of the pandemic or whether it's because of new leadership, does it seem like people are paying attention more to this one than the previous one?
It seems like there are more people paying attention in my building.
And I think I think a lot of it does have to do with engagement.
So like I said before, in the 2018 contract, that was what kind of irritated me and pushed me to actually become a steward.
So this is my first contract renewal as a steward and I have definitely stepped up, you know, as high as I can go.
I've been putting in a lot of work to reach out to as many people in my building as possible.
And I think the greatest thing is when you reach out and you get this conversation started with people, When they feel like the union cares about them, then they're going to care more about the union and what the union is doing for us.
And so I think that it is very important to continuously, repeatedly engage people and keep them informed and give them something to do, like this whole wearing red on Fridays thing.
It's a way that people can participate.
It's not just download the app and read the updates or look on Facebook for the updates.
It's something that you can do, something you can participate in.
And I think that has a huge effect.
I think that that kind of promotes that solidarity.
It brings people together.
And so I think because of that, because me and a good handful of others in my building and my local have really stepped up and really put a lot of effort into educating people this time around that, yeah, there is a lot more engagement.
And I love it.
I love to see it.
Yeah, that's great to hear.
I mean, it's, it's cliche at this point, but the union is the members.
The union are the rank and file members.
The union are all the, all the workers.
And if the workers aren't paying attention to the union, it's kind of the same, similar situation to as if the union isn't paying attention to what the company's doing.
The union is going to do, you know, if you let it up to its own devices, well, then the few people who are actually paying attention are going to get to do what they want, you know?
And The whole story of this negotiation has been member participation and more democracy through through this process, you know, with with organizations like TDU, who have been extremely active in trying to mobilize members and create a more democratic union.
And that's you know, it was it was these reforms that got that arcane rule In our Teamsters Constitution, allowing leadership to force through a contract we voted down, we got that removed from the Constitution.
We also got strike pay put into, we'll have strike pay.
Every member will start being paid for a strike on day one of the strike.
That's another thing that we were able to get through, yeah, member participation.
But again, like, it's really hard to devote time and effort to this stuff if you're, if you don't feel like you're going to see any results.
And so if part-timers get a substantial raise out of this contract, I feel like we will start seeing more part-timers treating this like an actual, if not a career, like somewhere that they have something invested in at the very least.
What were you going to say, Scott?
Oh, I was just going to say, I think you're 100% right.
The division between full-time drivers, especially, and the part-time workers is by design.
The company knows that they can churn and burn these workers and keep them disengaged and keep them away from being organized because it works at Amazon.
It works at FedEx and if you if I were to go into my building and talk to a bunch of the new hires in the classroom There's a substantial chance that a significant amount of those people have worked for those companies before and it's the business model they expect With drivers, they're able to organize like drivers.
I speak with drivers in our local all the time like through Bluetooth headphones like while they're driving and There's only so much of that that they're able to do during a day But when you're on the shop floor and you're actually working side by side with people and they're sticking around because they have a decent wage that's incredibly powerful and i think it is so intentional by ups to ensure that.
That churn and burn keeps happening because they're legitimately afraid the workforce that has something to stick around for.
Because when people have something to stick around for, they start to talk to each other.
They do stick around and they start to realize that they have class consciousness.
So I think that's a really big reason why.
Yeah, it is a good reason why it's a sticking point at the last thing that they're really worried about with this contract.
Yeah, and when I talk about how you have to monitor this company so that it doesn't destroy itself, so that the shareholders don't allow it to destroy itself, I mean, everything we're talking about when it comes to higher pay for part-timers, more safety, better staffing, all of this stuff helps the company run better.
Like, the union is essentially arguing for things that will make sorts and operations run better.
Better staffing, more consistency with who is doing what.
You know, if I have the same preloader loading my truck every day, I can start making requests about like, oh, hey, could you put this stop over here?
You know, or hey, could you do this differently?
Or this really helps me out.
All of that stuff is like, Priceless to an organization, you know, and and but they still won't do it because they only care about the short term costs.
And so the union really does serve not only to protect the members, but help the company like defend the company from itself, essentially.
Go ahead, Holly.
Well, what was it that Carol said?
Quality over quantity, better, not bigger.
And really, she kind of turns around and does the opposite when it It comes to the workforce, because, you know, like you said, if, if that turnover is super high, you're always going to have a bunch of people who have no idea what they're doing.
And they're always going to have, you know, those 19, 20 year old part time supervisors who have no idea what they're doing, or training the new people who subsequently have less idea what they're doing.
But ultimately, I mean, you're, you're right, if we had people who stuck around and actually know the operation, sure, they might get paid more per hour because they've been there longer, but your whole operation is going to be smoother.
You'll have less damages.
You'll have less fallouts.
Everything gets to the truck it needs to go to.
You have less miss sorts.
You have less things put on the wrong trailer and sent to the wrong seat.
Fewer injuries.
Yeah, fewer injuries because you have people that know how to work with each other and you have people that know all the safety precautions I mean, especially, you know, going back to the versatility of part-timers and having to move around to any area in the building, it's not every belt has the same kind of stop and secure methods.
Not every belt stop is in the same area and so you have to know your area.
When you have a bunch of New people at all times in every part of the building.
What if something happens?
Somebody's shirt gets caught in a belt and nobody in the area knows how to shut the belt off because they're all so new they don't know where the shut off is.
It's production and safety ultimately.
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, the company goes on and on about how injuries are their number one expense.
And yet, when I look at the preload line and it's just a chaos of tripping and falling and egress hazards, I'm like, the company doesn't really seem to internalize the messages that they're sending to us, at least.
Yeah, go ahead, Scott.
I was going to say, and I owe all of these talking points to my good organizing friend, Shane, who's a regular package car driver.
Shout out, Shane, you're the best.
But, you know, he, coming from a driving perspective, he's kind of does try to present to the drivers who, you know, they'll come in and look at like a A load on their truck and they'll say, you know, look what you've done.
You've screwed up my whole day.
You put everything in the wrong place.
Everything's a mess.
You need to be responsible for your actions.
You need to take responsibility for this job.
And it leads to that wedge.
But it fails to beg the question of like, how long has this person even worked for UPS?
How much training did they get?
How many trailers were they assigned?
How much has UPS management mismanaged this operation?
How much solidarity do they feel with their co-workers?
There's so many factors.
Go ahead.
How many different preloaders have loaded your one package car today?
How many different people have been in this pack?
Like, your, quote, your preloader was probably doing something somewhere else while a supervisor grabbed someone from somewhere else who doesn't give a shit about your package car.
I'm sorry.
Like, I know you think your package car, like, I think my package car is great and I love it.
Nobody else cares about it the way you do, all right?
And maybe if they're there every day, they will start caring about it the same way you do.
They'll take ownership over it, you know?
I think we're going to leave it here.
This was a wonderful conversation.
Thank you so much, Scott.
Thank you so much, Holly, for giving your time for this.
And solidarity with part-timers.
I really hope we go to the mats for you guys.
Can I do a couple plugs real quick?
Yeah, thank you so much for having me.
Can I do a couple plugs real quick?
Yes.
Yeah.
Okay, so I'd really love to plug Work Stoppage Pod.
I did an extensive interview with the aforementioned friend Shane and our colleague Ben this last week.
Really wonderful program.
Check out their Patreon.
If you can't afford it, just check out the regular feed.
We've got a rank-and-file committee on our local rankandfile41.org.
If you want to follow me on Twitter or whatever, you can find me at rankandfiler.
That's all.
I don't want to make this too much longer than it needs to be.
But thanks for having us on so much.
Yeah, of course.
Yeah.
Work Stoppage.
Friends of the Show.
Good podcast.
Absolutely.
Recommend it.
And yeah, thanks again, Holly, for coming on.
Thank you.
Oh, and there is a video version of this episode, this conversation, this interview, on our YouTube page.
YouTube.com slash MinionDeathCult.
The link will be in the episode's description.
Easily shareable video form.
Go to our YouTube page.
And more conversations about UPS Teamsters negotiations and the looming strike deadline August 1st.
Those conversations are on the YouTube page as well as our regular podcast.
