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Dec. 2, 2024 - Health Ranger - Mike Adams

02:24:55

BBN, Dec 2, 2024 – How to survive Trump’s GLOBAL TARIFF TRADE WAR...

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	Welcome back from Thanksgiving break.
	For all of you who took that break, it is Monday, December 2nd, 2024. Mike Adams here.
	This is Brighty on Broadcast News.
	We've got a lot of news, including the fact that, well, Joe Biden, who everybody forgot, he's still president.
	I mean, he's always been a fake president.
	He did not win in 2020.
	But he has pardoned his son, Hunter, with a full and unconditional pardon, covering all crimes during an 11-year period, even though he said he would not pardon Hunter.
	And even though the White House spokesperson, KJP, I think, those are her initials, she said that he would not pardon Hunter.
	We all knew he was going to, and he did.
	And he said it's because of the unfairness of the DOJ prosecutions against his son.
	Are you kidding me?
	I mean, the whole country is going...
	what?!
	Can you hear that simultaneous gasp across the country?
	What?
	You want to talk about unfair prosecutions?
	What about all the J6 people who are still in prison?
	What about all the prosecutions against Trump, which are in the process of being dropped now?
	But they could come back and prosecute him later for that, too, by the way.
	What about all the lawfare against all of Trump's allies, like Roger Stone and people like that?
	Talk about FBI abuse of power running around intimidating people because of their social media posts.
	And Joe Biden says, no, the DOJ has been unfair to his son, so he has to pardon him.
	Yeah, we knew that was coming.
	All right.
	Well, that's one piece of news.
	We've got some other big news today.
	I've got an interview coming up with Tracy Thurman, who is a, well, she's, I don't know if She has an official title, but she has been telling the story of Roger Ver, known as Bitcoin Jesus.
	And Roger Ver is being extradited from Spain to face criminal prosecutions in the United States.
	They want to put him in prison for 100 years or more because he used to be a U.S. citizen.
	And when he left the country and he paid his exit tax, he Now, he's got a lot of Bitcoin, so he paid exit tax on his Bitcoin gains, and the IRS did not like the way that his attorney calculated the Bitcoin gains, and they said, we're going to criminally prosecute you, so that's what they're doing.
	It's insane.
	I mean, again, you want to talk about DOJ prosecutions.
	Roger Ver needs to be pardoned.
	And so I've got a great interview for you today.
	Tracy Thurman flew to Texas to join me in studio last week, right before the break.
	And we'll be playing that full interview for you here today.
	And it's powerful.
	If you don't know who Roger Veer is, well, you're about to find out.
	That's a name you should know, kind of along the lines of Julian Assange or Edward Snowden.
	Or Ross Ulbricht.
	All these people who should be pardoned by Trump.
	And I'm also saying Trump should pardon all the January 6th people, especially since Joe Biden just pardoned Hunter Biden.
	But yes, Trump should pardon all the January 6th people, as far as I'm concerned, all of them.
	Because it was a honeypot trap.
	It was classic entrapment.
	They should all be pardoned.
	In fact, they should be compensated.
	In my view, the ones who have just been treated so unfairly, you know, held without trial.
	Political prisoners for years.
	Unbelievable that this is happening in America, but it is.
	So, yeah, pardon all the J6 people and pardon Roger Veer.
	Anyway, you'll see that interview coming up here shortly.
	Now, on top of that, let's talk about tariffs for a minute, because Trump last week announced, or maybe this was over the weekend, he announced the 25% tariff against Mexico and Canada based on the open borders policies, especially Mexico, and I think he announced the 25% tariff against Mexico and Canada based on the open borders policies, especially Mexico, and I think a 10% tariff against China
	So a 25% tariff on Mexico means 25% extra tax on everything being exported from Mexico until Mexico relents and stops allowing people to just pass through Mexico as a conduit to get into the United States illegally, and And Trump initially announced that the president of Mexico, the woman, I forgot her name, she's the new president, that she had agreed and she was going to stop the trafficking.
	But I knew that wasn't true.
	It was nonsense.
	And over the weekend, she came out and said, no, I never said that.
	And in fact, she's going to retaliate against the US. So there's going to be some kind of targeted tariffs back at the US. Well, Tariffs can be a dangerous weapon, especially when retaliations begin to escalate.
	And in an international trade war, the people lose no matter what.
	The people lose because things become more and more expensive and trade suffers and then jobs suffer domestically because exports are down.
	However, in the case of this tariff on Mexico, I completely agree with this tariff of 25%.
	Even though I know I said last week it would cause the cost of avocados to rise significantly, I am willing to pay more for avocados to have a secure border.
	I don't know that everybody agrees with me because, well, it applies to more than avocados, obviously.
	And it does not apply to illegal drugs coming out of Mexico because those are black market items.
	But it will affect textiles and automobiles and all kinds of things, right?
	So this means that there could be a trade war.
	But I say that Trump should keep raising that tariff until Mexico relents.
	Mexico has an obligation to stop the border trafficking from their side.
	They could, if they wanted to, they could enforce border control.
	They just, they choose not to.
	They choose to have America invaded.
	I think Trump should raise the tariff to 50%.
	And if that doesn't work, raise it to 75%.
	Go 100%.
	Turns out there's no limit to how high the tariffs can go.
	And this is again applied to Mexico.
	I don't know about Canada.
	I didn't know the problem was that bad from Canada.
	I know it exists, but I think the big problem is from Mexico.
	So let's focus on Mexico here as far as I'm concerned.
	But I think that whatever tariff Trump announces, he should agree to lower it by five percentage points for milestones being reached by Mexico.
	So for example, in any month in which the number of Illegals that are caught by Customs and Border Protection or Border Patrol.
	If that number is reduced by 25%, let's say, then Trump should drop the tariff by 5%.
	Kind of give Mexico some incentives, you know, something to work towards.
	Okay, if fentanyl deaths plummet by 50%, then we'll drop the tariffs another 5% or maybe 10%.
	You know, give them some milestones to work toward, and then when Mexico solves the illegal immigration problem and the fentanyl drug problem, then guess what?
	The tariff goes to zero.
	Yeah, and then it's free trade once again.
	But you have to stop the human trafficking, the fentanyl trafficking, the weapons trafficking, etc.
	Oh, also, by the way, somebody asked me, why do I keep pronouncing it fentanyl?
	Instead of fentanyl?
	And the answer is, of course, because I'm accurate.
	Have you looked at how it's spelled?
	Fentanyl, N-Y-L. That's pronounced nil.
	Everybody who's out there pronouncing it fentanyl, they don't, obviously, they've never been around a chemistry lab because a nol is a totally different class of chemicals.
	All the alls, like alcohol and methanol, the null indicates an alcohol, and fentanyl is not an alcohol.
	Otherwise, it would be called fentanyl, and it wouldn't be addictive in the same way, by the way.
	So, what I'm saying is, I pronounce it fentanyl because that's how it's spelled.
	It's like, I pronounce it America- Not Ameri-co, because it's spelled with an A at the end.
	So I say America, not Ameri-co.
	Anyway, fentanyl is N-Y-L, not N-O-L. So anyway, everybody who's saying fentanyl, they're doing it wrong.
	And I don't care.
	You probably wonder, like, why am I even bringing this up?
	I'm only bringing it up because people thought I was pronouncing it wrong.
	No.
	I'm the guy pronouncing it right.
	Everybody else was pronouncing it wrong.
	Look at how it's spelled, like I said.
	And I've ranted about a few words over the years.
	I'm not going to dwell on this, but you know the word nuclear?
	Look at how it's spelled, folks.
	It's N-U-C-L-E-A-R. Nuclear.
	It's not nuclear.
	Nuclear.
	Okay?
	It's not nuclear.
	So, once again, once again, everybody that says nuclear, they're not pronouncing the same word that I'm seeing because the word that I see is clearly spelled nuclear.
	Yeah, now, wouldn't it be bad if illegal drugs were radioactive?
	And then everybody would be saying, you got nuclear fentanyl, you know?
	Ah, what are we going to do?
	It's an alcohol that irradiates.
	I don't know.
	But anyway, moving on.
	Oh, by the way, the next time somebody says nuclear, ask them, ask them, how many vowels are there between the C and the L in that word?
	Ask them.
	Because the correct answer is zero.
	Big fat zero, nada, zilch.
	Zero vowels between the C and the L. That's why we have the word clear, pronounced clear, not cooler.
	Make sense?
	It's clear.
	I hope I'm being clear.
	I hope I'm being cooler.
	But anyway, getting back to the tariffs question, which is really what matters here.
	So I agree with Trump's tariffs on Mexico.
	But then over the weekend, Trump announced that he was going to slap a 100% tariff on exports from all countries that are seeking to join the BRICS system.
	Right, right.
	Oh, my goodness.
	And that set off all kinds of waves of just, in some cases, panic, in other cases, laughter.
	Okay, so just to be clear, I support Trump's tariffs temporarily on Mexico.
	Sometimes you have to use a bludgeon against a country that's allowing illegal trafficking.
	And a tariff is a bludgeon.
	It's a very blunt, it's an economic weapon of mass destruction.
	You don't normally want to use it, but in this case, it's a wide open border.
	It's a big problem, and Mexico is partially to blame.
	So you bludgeon Mexico over the head with a tariff until they solve the problem.
	However, Trump wants to bludgeon every nation in the world that wants to use bricks for settlements.
	You know, international trade settlement.
	Now, the BRICS nations, which began as obviously five nations, has expanded to be, well, approaching 100 nations now.
	And Turkey even wants to join BRICS, and Turkey's a NATO nation.
	Well, for the moment, not for long, probably.
	But the BRICS nations include, of course, China and Russia and Brazil and India and And just right there, just right there, if Trump slaps a 100% tariff on those nations, you have any idea what that's going to set off globally?
	Trade wars galore because that would be devastating to the export economies of countries like China, but it would also be devastating to American consumers because, well, everything from China would double in price, roughly.
	How would you like to have...
	Not just food inflation, but everything inflation.
	Appliances, computers, everything's doubled now.
	Oh, great.
	So glad Trump's in office.
	Everything's doubled in price.
	You thought inflation was bad before.
	Well, but Trump is trying to do this.
	He's threatening to do it because he still thinks we're living in the 1990s or maybe the 80s.
	He still thinks America gets to set the agenda globally.
	And what's kind of funny about that is a lot of people joining the Trump administration, they're also living in the 1980s or the 1990s, and they also think that America still gets to set the rules of the world.
	They think that America can just bully everybody into compliance.
	And even though we might selectively bully countries like Mexico because of the border problem, you can't really bully the whole world or let's say all the BRICS nations of the world, which is a very significant portion of the world.
	You can't bully the whole world with this.
	When the very reason that these nations are choosing the BRICS currency is to get away from the United States using the dollar as a weapon of mass destruction and using economic sanctions and using the weaponization of the SWIFT system, which is what the U.S. did against Russia, which didn't work, by the way.
	Remember what we were told back in the summer of 2022, a few months after Russia launched the special military operation?
	We were told, well, we're going to cut off Russia from the SWIFT system.
	Well, that had actually already been done.
	And we're going to seize all of Russia's money in European banks, like $300 billion.
	And we're going to cause the economic collapse of Russia.
	We're going to collapse Russia's currency.
	We're going to collapse Russia's economy.
	And then Putin's going to be overthrown by his own people.
	And then we'll just go in and we'll just take Russia's resources and we'll just install a puppet that we like, like Yeltsin or whoever, Yeltsin 2.0.
	And then we'll just have our own guy.
	Well, I guess technically that would be more like Gorbachev 2.0, not so much Yeltsin, but Gorbachev.
	And what actually happened since then?
	Russia actually became stronger.
	Much stronger.
	Its domestic production became very strong because its investors couldn't invest overseas.
	So they began to invest domestically.
	Russia built up a significant infrastructure of manufacturing and military output and steel and weapons.
	And now, you know, they have this new Oreshnik weapon system and they've got hypersonic missiles.
	And they've been building their own domestic supply chains for electronics and food production and all kinds of things.
	High tech, aerospace, medical, you name it.
	So cutting Russia off from the rest of the Western world didn't make Russia weaker.
	It made Russia stronger.
	But it destroyed Western Europe.
	By the way, economically speaking.
	So Germany's economy collapsing, you know, French economy, UK economy, all collapsing because of being cut off from Russia's cheap energy.
	So America's plan of weaponizing the dollar effectively and weaponizing the banking system to punish Russia and isolate Russia, all it did was punish Europe and isolate the West.
	And now if Trump says, look, we're going to put 100% tariff on all these countries, India, Turkey, China, Russia, Brazil, What do you think those countries are going to do?
	Are they going to apologize to America and bow down and say, oh my God, we're so sorry we were trying to leave the plantation.
	We'd much rather be slaves to the U.S. empire system.
	Are they going to apologize and be slaves again?
	Are we so sorry that we thought we could do our own thing?
	We'll be subjects to the dollar.
	No, they're not going to do that.
	Because the whole point of joining BRICS is to get away from this kind of weaponization of the dollar.
	That's the point.
	And Trump, threatening 100% tariff, will only accelerate countries embracing BRICS for the very simple reason that BRICS settlement...
	The currency system can't be weaponized by any one of its members because it's distributed among member nations.
	So under the BRICS settlement system, China can't just weaponize it against everybody else, nor can Russia, nor India, or anybody else.
	It's an unweaponizable, we could say, international settlement system, which means that your money is always good in trade.
	You can always get credits.
	They're called units.
	You can always get units in exchange for goods or services that you trade with, that you've traded other countries with.
	So That's what nations want.
	They want to be free from having a gun to their head, saying, you have to obey us.
	You have to use the dollar.
	You have to do what we tell you.
	We're the United States.
	We have the U.S. Navy.
	We have the aircraft carriers.
	We control SWIFT. We control the banking system.
	Do what we say, and we'll bomb you.
	We'll assassinate you.
	We'll overthrow you.
	Because that's been the U.S. Empire's method since the end of World War II. The world is done with that.
	We are living in the final days of the U.S. empire and the domination of the dollar, the domination of the West, the domination of NATO, which is an evil, evil entity.
	Let me tell you, did you know that NATO took a major role in the COVID censorship campaigns and efforts?
	Yeah, their people and their funding and their intel was involved in Running the censorship campaigns against the so-called disinformation dozen.
	And they even were involved in the censorship of myself and my platforms.
	And this was all a NATO operation.
	NATO is anti-human, anti-freedom, anti-America, effectively, you know, because anti-constitution.
	NATO is an evil, evil entity.
	And the West, as an empire, is an evil empire.
	Precisely because leaders of Western nations think that they can just rule the world and tell everybody what to do and threaten everybody and coerce people and weaponize banking systems and weaponize the currency and also print the currency into oblivion.
	You know, the U.S. basically generates debt and exports debt to the rest of the world, I mean, through currency.
	While the other countries produce goods, they produce things or they get things out of the ground like fertilizer or aluminum or oil.
	But the U.S. mostly just generates currency and exports debt and inflation and trades that for goods and services and commodities from other countries.
	And it's a great deal if you run the dollar.
	It's a great deal if you could just print dollars and trade it for things that other countries had to actually build and produce with effort and labor and resources and power.
	If you're the US, you want to keep that scam going, don't you?
	But if you're all the other countries in the world, you don't like that scam.
	You don't like that at all.
	You want to get away from the dollar, obviously, because the dollar is counterfeited by the Federal Reserve and weaponized by the US government.
	So you want to get away from that.
	That's why if you're India or Turkey or China, you want to use the BRICS system.
	And if Trump says, well, we're going to slap 100% tariff on you if you join BRICS, these nations are going to say, go pound sand.
	This is why we're joining BRICS. So that we can engage in free trade and not be coerced and not have a gun to our head, thanks to countries like the U.S. that still think they dominate the whole world.
	See, Most of the Trump administration, and this includes Trump himself, they don't realize that we're living in a multipolar world.
	They still think the world is just dominated by the U.S., that whatever the U.S. wants is what everybody else has to follow.
	And that was true 20 years ago.
	Not true today.
	Not true today.
	When the U.S. Navy is nullified by Yemen, it's not true when Russia has the Oreshnik hypersonic missiles that can sink every U.S. aircraft carrier.
	Not true today when Iran has ballistic missiles and Russia has hypersonic missiles and China has 200 times the dry dock shipbuilding capacity of the entire United States of America.
	You see, America's whole scam of like, hey, let's counterfeit currency and print dollars and export those around the world and then we'll enforce it at gunpoint with our Navy and our bombs.
	That scam?
	Coming to an end.
	And the defeat of Ukraine is really the indicator of that pivot point.
	Because it shows that the U.S. can't defend its own proxy state in Eastern Europe.
	And Ukraine has been defeated.
	It's only a matter of time before the surrender or whatever documents are signed.
	But the U.S. must be scrambling right now trying to figure out how are we going to get out of Ukraine without it looking like a defeat?
	Because it's a defeat.
	Because the corporate media has just been lying.
	The Western media, lying.
	Since 2022, lying and saying, we're winning.
	Ukraine is winning.
	Russia's losing.
	Russia's on the verge of defeat.
	Russia's morale has collapsed.
	Russian troops, they've all run out.
	And Russia ran out of missiles.
	And Russia ran out of ships.
	And Russia ran out of ammunition.
	And Russia doesn't have any microchips.
	Like, all that stuff, nothing but lies.
	It was all lies.
	Actually, those were the things that were happening in Ukraine and in NATO. NATO ran out of munitions.
	Ukraine ran out of men.
	Ukraine has a very high desertion rate.
	I mean, you can't blame them.
	Who wants to be sent to the front lines to die?
	That doesn't make any sense.
	Ukraine is on the verge of collapse, and NATO nations can't produce much of anything in terms of munitions.
	And NATO doesn't have air defenses that really work against Russia's weapons.
	NATO doesn't have hypersonic missiles.
	NATO doesn't have Oreshnik.
	NATO navies aren't effective anymore.
	The West is in a state of total collapse.
	So this idea that Trump thinks he's going to bludgeon the rest of the world with 100% tariffs This is null and void from the outset.
	I mean, he may try it.
	It won't work.
	The rest of the world is already past that.
	They're not going to go back to a monopolar world where the U.S. dominates everything and everybody uses the dollar.
	The days of the dollar are done.
	Saudi Arabia, they're not selling oil in the dollar to everybody.
	I mean, they will sell it for dollars, but they'll sell it for other currencies as well.
	Nigeria, same thing.
	Most of the trade between Russia and China is carried out in the yuan and in the ruble.
	It's not carried out in dollars.
	And the level of non-dollar trade between all the BRICS nations, India and Russia, for example, continues to skyrocket without the dollar.
	We've covered these stories, and it's just continuing to accelerate.
	So Trump is going to learn, probably the hard way, you can't bludgeon the entire world into compliance and obedience, forcing them to use the dollar when you, the U.S., when you control the weaponization of the dollar.
	Nobody is going to put themselves under that kind of torture.
	Why would they?
	Now, what Trump is going to have to realize, and frankly, the State Department, if they could ever come to their senses, and many Americans are going to have to realize the following.
	We live in a multipolar world.
	If the U.S. wants to participate in a multipolar world, number one, the United States has to recognize the right of Russia to exist.
	Which currently is not something that the State Department recognizes.
	They don't see Russia as a legitimate nation.
	And also, they don't really see China as having a right to exist because they're trying to ramp up to a war with China, too.
	Yeah, that's going to be interesting.
	If you couldn't defeat Russia in Ukraine, how do you think you're going to defeat China in the Pacific?
	That's not going to happen.
	Good luck.
	How do you think you're going to defeat Iran in the Middle East, huh?
	That's not going to happen.
	The U.S. needs to come to its senses and realize that the way to interact with the world is to compete.
	Compete.
	Compete on innovation, efficiency, technology, manufacturing things, or creating intellectual property, creating technology, things like what Apple used to do when it was innovative before it went fully woke.
	Think about it.
	Or what IBM used to do, you know?
	America used to be a nation of innovation and industrial output.
	Today, it's largely a culture of retarded wokeness and offshoring production to everywhere else.
	And long term, you just can't compete like that.
	So what actually needs to happen is we need to revamp the entire education system in America.
	And instead of sending youth to universities where they just learn how to be woke victims, We need to teach our youth how to do things.
	Trade schools.
	Trade schools.
	Like, learn a trade.
	Learn how to do something.
	We also need to revolutionize our domestic supply chains.
	We don't really even have a lot of supply chains necessary to produce complex components or systems or electronics or telecom or phones or anything like that.
	That's all in China or other countries or Korea, you know?
	But if we were to invest domestically to where we had more people willing to work because of a better education system and more supply chains and more efficiencies domestically, then we could actually compete on the world stage.
	We could produce goods and services and intellectual property and ideas and innovation and businesses that would change the world, which is something that America has been really good at doing for a long time.
	And then we wouldn't have to use tariffs to punish other countries.
	We would just say, hey, other countries can use whatever currencies they want.
	If they don't want to use the dollar, that's fine.
	But if they want to buy U.S. goods, they need to use the dollar.
	So let's just compete based on merit.
	But you see, That's my philosophy.
	I think we should compete based on merit.
	But what Trump wants to do is to not compete based on merit.
	He doesn't want an international meritocracy.
	He wants an international obedience system, international dominance.
	Like, you do what we say because we have the Navy, and we'll bomb you if you don't.
	Because that's the way the U.S. has been run for such a long time that Most of these leaders, they can't imagine anything else.
	I mean, look at Sebastian Gorka.
	He can't imagine anything else.
	He just thinks you can just threaten everybody, threaten Russia.
	Well, you can't bomb Russia with your words.
	Doesn't work.
	Russia doesn't care.
	Your words don't stop Russian hypersonic missiles, it turns out.
	So America has got to learn to compete based on merit instead of just coercion.
	Think about that.
	We live, that is those of us who live in America, we live in an empire that operates based on coercion, not merit, not fairness, not mutual benefit, not understanding, not free trade, none of those things.
	Those are not terms that define America, not by a long shot.
	America operates on violence, the threat of violence, coercion, Economic weapons, sanctions.
	How many thousands of sanctions are on the books right now?
	Sanctioning companies and countries and individuals and industries all over the world.
	All kinds of sanctions.
	I would imagine the State Department must have 5,000 employees just keeping track of the sanctions.
	There's a way to cut government waste, end all the sanctions, and eliminate most of the State Department.
	You know, some of the solutions are really simple.
	But think about it.
	I mean, what is Trump's argument in all of this?
	Like, we can't let other countries use other currencies.
	Why?
	Why should the U.S. dictate to other countries what currency they have to use?
	Especially if they just want to trade between each other.
	If Russia is trading with India, why should they have to use the dollar?
	But do you know that for decades, the dollar has been the intermediate currency in all of this, which created artificial demand for the dollar, which gave the U.S. control over the dollar and the ability to weaponize the SWIFT system and the banking system against all the other countries of the world.
	It was crazy.
	If you're one of these other nations, like, why should we use the dollar?
	Why can't we just trade in rubles and rupees?
	See, the U.S. technically has no right to tell other countries what currencies they have to use in trade between each other.
	Now, granted, the U.S. can always say that if you want to trade with America, you have to use dollars.
	Okay, fine.
	That's reasonable.
	Just like Russia says if you want to trade with Russia, you have to buy rubles.
	Okay.
	You want to get oil from Russia?
	You got to buy rubles.
	And pay for it in rubles.
	There you go.
	That makes sense.
	But Russia doesn't have the right to tell America that when we buy electronics from China, we have to buy them in rubles.
	That would be stupid and insane.
	But that's what the U.S. does to the whole world.
	It says no matter what you buy, if India is buying stuff from Indonesia, they got to buy it in dollars.
	Well, again, that's stupid.
	But that's what Trump is trying to enforce worldwide.
	It's silly.
	And it's obsolete.
	And it's not going to work.
	All that's going to do is set off a big trade war internationally, which would raise prices and cause job losses and economic damage all over the world.
	It's a silly idea.
	But I guess Trump will try it and see.
	And if you thought supply lines were bad now, wait until Trump slaps 100% tariff on everything.
	Oh my goodness.
	And then all these other countries will start retaliating.
	And all the countries that export lithium to America will just say, ah, no more lithium for you.
	No soup for you!
	And China will just say, ah, you know, those rare earth minerals that you need for your military program?
	Yeah, no rare earths for you.
	And whatever these countries make, appliances or fertilizer or copper, they'll just say, ah, okay, we're not going to send any to you.
	Good luck!
	And America will find itself isolated economically and then collapsing domestically because we depend on the rest of the world to send us stuff.
	So America won't last very long under that kind of scenario.
	And I imagine the rest of the world will say, we call your bluff, Trump.
	We call your bluff.
	You know, Trump is like the art of the deal guy.
	But to do a deal, you have to have leverage.
	Trump's got no leverage.
	Can't control the rest of the world.
	The rest of the world is just going to say, go pound sand.
	We don't need your dollars.
	We don't need to export to your country.
	We'll just conduct trade between ourselves and you guys can just collapse and let us know when you want to engage in free trade again.
	So that's where this is going.
	It's going to be a really costly experiment.
	And it's probably why some people are beginning to stock up on International goods before January 20th.
	Because prices may double after January 20th.
	Think about it.
	Everything from China?
	You know what that covers?
	I mean, everything.
	Machine parts and automobile parts, electronics, medical, telecom.
	I mean, everything you can think of.
	Made in China.
	It's all going to double in price.
	So, That's crazy.
	On the bright side of things that Trump did, he nominated Kash Patel for FBI director, which I think is awesome.
	And you might be wondering why I'm pronouncing it Kash Patel when most people pronounce it Kash.
	And he's okay with that, by the way.
	But when I interviewed him two years ago, I asked him about his name.
	And he said, I forgot if he said if his parents were Pakistani or Indian or whatever.
	I apologize.
	It's been two years.
	But he thought that, yeah, his name probably would have been pronounced Kash.
	Not Kash, you know, in his native family tongue.
	So I think Kash is actually more accurate than Kash.
	So that's why I call him Kash Patel.
	But anyway, he's a cool guy, and he's a smart guy, and he's a very qualified guy.
	And I think he's going to make a great FBI director because his number one goal is to tear down the FBI. So this is a great pick from Trump.
	This is a thumbs up.
	So Trump has made some great picks, including RFK Jr., for example.
	And he's made some lousy picks as well, just horrific picks.
	But this is a great one.
	Kosh Patel for FBI director with the overarching idea that we want Kosh to basically, well, day one, he should go in there and he should release all kinds of records about what happened on J6, what happened to the he should go in there and he should release all kinds of records about what happened on I mean, why do you think Joe is pardoning Hunter now?
	Because Kosh is going to come in and release the laptop files probably.
	At least he should, but he should also arrest a whole slew of FBI agents on day one.
	He should have them arrested and charged with all the crimes they engaged in.
	I mean, the FBI was weaponized politically against Trump and Trump's people, including against people like Kosh himself.
	He knows it.
	The FBI ran that operation.
	The FBI was part of the Russian dossier hoax.
	The FBI has been a political weapon against America.
	And I think there's several hundred, maybe a few thousand people in the FBI that need to be imprisoned.
	And Kosh should announce their indictments pretty quickly after he is sworn in or whatever he does to get sworn in.
	I don't know.
	Take the oath again.
	You swear to uphold and defend the Constitution, the oath that everybody else in the FBI violates every day because most of them are traitors.
	Well, Kosh can maybe do some good there.
	I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt in getting that done.
	And then Pam Bondi at the DOJ, I think she'll work with Kosh to indict some of these worst offenders, these traitors who violated the law going after Trump.
	I mean, they committed some serious crimes.
	And then what about election fraud in 2020?
	Shouldn't the FBI investigate the election fraud in 2020?
	Yes.
	Kosh can give a lot of orders.
	A lot of investigations should be started under Kosh.
	Or cash, if you want to call him that.
	Mr. Patel, we can all agree that.
	He should launch a whole slew of investigations, as should the DOJ. In fact, January 20th can't come fast enough, as far as I'm concerned.
	What is it now?
	Seven weeks away, roughly?
	A little under, yeah, seven weeks away.
	Man, time's going, it's passing slowly right now.
	That day can't come quickly enough.
	Now, turning our attention back to Russia, something really interesting.
	Last week, you may recall that I was comparing the Oreshnik system to a falling meteorite or a falling comet.
	I said it was like comets from God.
	Because I've been studying a lot about comet impacts, and I was teaching some Bible sermons about the book of Revelation and the seven trumpets and so on, and I've been reading a lot about comet impacts.
	And so I'm aware of the kinetic energy that they can unleash.
	So I think I'm the first person for sure in the Western world who said that this Oreshnik weapon system, it's like comets or meteors.
	It hits with the force of fast-moving meteors.
	Well, over the weekend, Putin said exactly that same thing.
	He said the strike power of Russia's new state-of-the-art Oreshnik ballistic missile is similar to a meteorite impact.
	Oh, I guess he said this on Thursday.
	Excuse me.
	He said it on Thursday.
	RT reported this.
	Quote, a massive strike with such missiles would be comparable to a nuclear one, he added.
	Anything located in the strike center is obliterated into elemental particles reduced to dust.
	Because that's what happens when it's superheated to 4000 degrees centigrade, which is way beyond the melting temperature of concrete and steel and tungsten and everything else you can imagine.
	It all gets atomized.
	You're left with just dust, vaporized.
	So that's what Oreshnik does.
	But I find it interesting that here I am talking about it.
	It hits like a comet or a meteorite.
	And then a couple days later, Putin's like, yeah, it hits like a meteorite.
	Like, whoa!
	Maybe I had Putin's super secret briefing paper before he did.
	No, that didn't happen.
	I just recognize the physics of it.
	It's pretty obvious.
	It hits like a meteor.
	Now, the thing about this weapon system is that Russia can attach the Oreshnik warhead cluster.
	It's got six independent vehicles, each with six submunitions.
	So basically, you can get hit with 36 masses traveling at at least Mach 11, maybe much faster.
	But Russia can put this payload on the A long-range intercontinental ballistic missile, which means that Russia has the ability to hit any target, any military target, or any government target anywhere in the world with a non-nuclear weapon and to decimate it without triggering a nuclear retaliation or violating nuclear treaties, etc.
	So this brings up A very important recognition that Russia has now obtained a non-nuclear decapitation first strike capability.
	With enough of these Oreshnik missile systems, Russia can decapitate NATO's military or America's military and And by decapitation strike, what I mean is that Russia could hit the command centers, logistics centers, naval bases, munitions depots, underground bunkers, whatever.
	Missile launch silos, everything.
	Aircraft carriers, you name it.
	Russia could hit all of that all at once in a massive decapitation strike that is not even nuclear.
	Russia could sink every U.S. aircraft carrier.
	In less than 30 minutes, decapitation strike.
	This has not existed before now.
	This is a new, well, a whole new scorpion in the jar.
	In game theory, you talk about two scorpions in a jar.
	Now there's a third scorpion in the jar.
	Now it's two on one.
	The game has changed.
	In other words, Oreshnik gives Russia a capability that no nation has ever had before.
	So think about this.
	Think about Russia has a non-nuclear first-strike decapitation weapon that is absolutely unstoppable.
	No military can stop it.
	It destroys everything that it hits, turns it all into dust, and it can strike any target anywhere in the world, while Trump has 100% tariffs.
	Like, Trump has a weapon system based on fiat currency and money printing.
	Russia has a weapon system based on physics, high relative velocities, or acceleration.
	Which weapon system is most likely to achieve victory in the coming world war?
	I wonder.
	I don't think tariffs are going to go very far, but I think Oreshnik is a game-changer.
	So the West doesn't realize it yet, but the West has lost World War III. That's right.
	The West has already lost the war.
	China is already outproducing, by a long shot, anything that the West can produce.
	I mentioned naval shipyards.
	China literally has 200 times more naval shipyard bandwidth capacity compared to the United States.
	They're going to be churning out an aircraft carrier every year.
	Russia has the Yoreshnik system already mentioned, a massive domestic military industrial system that is outproducing all of NATO. And then there are other countries like India that has a very strong industrial base, and Turkey, which, of course, is very advanced in drones and Autonomous aircraft and all kinds of things, plus a lot of other industries.
	The West can't beat Russia and China and Iran and North Korea.
	It's not possible.
	They've already lost.
	They just don't know it yet.
	And most Americans don't know it yet.
	So one of the key messages I have for you today is to realize that The West has lost World War III, but is going to try to fight it out before Western leaders will be convinced.
	It's kind of like maybe in a street fight, one guy shows up with a knife, another guy shows up with a machete, and another guy has a baseball bat.
	And let's say the guy with a machete, he's a master.
	He's just going to slice and dice everybody, but they don't know it yet.
	So the guy with the knife and the guy with the baseball bat, they're like, we think we can take this guy with the machete.
	They're about to find out they can't, but they're going to have to lose an arm or some fingers in the process of learning.
	That's the process that the West is going to have to go through.
	The West has already lost World War III. The dollar has already been defeated globally.
	Granted, it will continue to exist for a long time in some form, just like the British pound sterling.
	It still exists.
	It's just not the world reserve currency anymore.
	Or the French Libre is not the world reserve currency or whatever the Portuguese were using before that.
	I mean, come on.
	The currencies are still around.
	They're just not world reserve currencies anymore.
	The dollar will be around in some form.
	It's just not the currency of the world.
	But the U.S. is going to have to be convinced that it has lost.
	And until then, it's going to try to fight.
	And it's going to lose everything.
	A lot of fights.
	Now, it will inflict some damage on other countries along the way.
	The U.S. can do a lot of damage to Iran, can do some damage to Russia, can do some damage even to China, but the U.S. can't defeat those nations.
	Unfortunately, a lot of people are going to die while the incompetent, arrogant, pompous U.S. leaders try to inflict massive damage on the world and try to return to global dominance, but ultimately they will fail, and in that process, Millions or hundreds of millions or even billions of people might die.
	And that brings us to the depopulation agenda.
	There is an effort in the West to achieve global depopulation through World War III. Because, of course, well, the AI systems are becoming very advanced.
	The rise of the robots has begun.
	And there are billions of humans that the globalists will no longer need.
	So what's their plan?
	Well, get rid of the humans, make way for the robots.
	And that is the subject of today's special report that we'll play here shortly.
	So that's kind of an overview.
	And then we'll have the Roger Veer interview.
	Well, about Roger Veer.
	It's with Tracy Thurman.
	That's coming up today as well.
	Before we get there, thank you for all your support of our online store, healthrangerstore.com.
	When you're ready for ultra-clean superfoods, storable foods, personal care products.
	Fragrance-free.
	We don't use any toxic garbage ingredients or artificial scents or flavors or perfumes or fillers or anything.
	Check it out, healthrangerstore.com, and we are shipping right now, and we thank you for your support.
	And you'll see that your support is doing some amazing things because we've got, like I said earlier, a lot of announcements coming out in 2025. So thank you for your support.
	We couldn't do this without you.
	And you'll be doing yourself a favor, too, with all our super clean, organic superfoods and nutritional supplements.
	We've got really amazing high-end supplements.
	Check them all out, healthrangerstore.com.
	All right, enjoy the special report now about the rise of robotics and AI combined with the depopulation agenda.
	And then following that, we'll have the interview with Tracy Thurman about freeing Roger Ver.
	Here's something that's really important to understand.
	It's that the globalist depopulation efforts are being driven by or you could say are running neck and neck with the rise of AI reasoning capabilities.
	In other words, as AI reasoning continues to leap forward so that automated systems would be able to engage in problem solving and reasoning and thereby replace physical skills in the real world, As that's happening, the globalists are desperately trying to figure out how to get rid of several billion people.
	So I think we're past the point of whether there's any debate about depopulation actually being underway.
	Maybe some people aren't aware of it yet, but those are the ones that are going to be depopulated.
	So, well, ignorance, you know, is costly.
	But most of you listening, you understand depopulation really began strongly with COVID. Although infertility efforts have been underway for decades.
	But COVID and getting people to line up and be injected with basically vaccine euthanasia shots, that really took a leap forward in 2020. Well, I started working on AI projects about a year ago,
	in late 2023. At that time, AI had just become accessible with so-called small language models or SLMs to where a company the size of mine could acquire enough hardware resources and data sets in order to build language models and release them to the public that would be chatbots with a lot of knowledge in them.
	And we did that.
	Brighttown.ai is the website.
	Although the last release there, which is from earlier this year, is really obsolete at this point, but we We learned the process, we proved the point that we could take a massive amount of data on natural health and herbs and nutrition, and we could use various fine-tuning techniques to alter base models such as Mistral, 7B, or other base models, and then we could release the new modified models to the public, which we did.
	And you can download some of those models right now if you wish.
	They're at brightown.ai.
	However, that's nothing compared to what's coming next year.
	We're going to be releasing a new model next year, free of course, open source, that is a full domain adaptation model that's larger than 7 billion, and that will have been successfully aggressively trained in terms of its domain of knowledge.
	Rather than just fine-tuning models, which is sort of altering a very small set of parameters, What we're able to do now because of some really amazing cost efficiencies and some technology advancements over the last year is we're able to do full domain adaptation of models at a fraction of what it would cost just a year ago.
	So in other words, we can do this now for well under a million dollars.
	Whereas a year or two years ago, this would have cost 10 million plus easily.
	But things are changing rapidly in the world of AI. Now, over the last few weeks, companies released some really astonishing models that you need to know about because this is going to feed into the whole point of this podcast, which is the reasoning capabilities of automated systems and what that has to do with depopulation.
	China is now taking the lead in AI models.
	China is beating OpenAI.
	China has two models.
	One is called DeepSeq and another is called Quen.
	And Quen is a Q-W-E-N, by the way, Quen.
	Quen just came out with a Quen 2.5, which is Created by the Alibaba company and DeepSeek, which I believe has similar roots to Quinn.
	I don't know all the details, but it seems similar, but it's a much larger model.
	DeepSeek has really incredible reasoning capabilities as well, but DeepSeek just came out with a revision one.
	That is available to the public, and it has a step-by-step reasoning capabilities built into it, which is similar to what OpenAI has been building with their 01 model.
	But step-by-step reasoning in a language model is something that you need to understand.
	We all need to understand this.
	So let's back up and understand what is a language model.
	An LLM, just a typical LLM, is simply a predictive generator of text.
	If you tell it something like, why did the chicken cross the blank, and you ask it to predict what word will fill in the blank, It will search through its hyper-dimensional database of relationships of words or really tokens, but we'll just call them words and concepts.
	And it's a massive, massive billions of parameters trained on trillions of words.
	And it will decide there's a 99% chance that that word should be road.
	All right, so why did the chicken cross the road?
	Well, what comes next?
	Well, language models can continue to write, so they can generate text.
	But it's all predictive.
	It's based on just prediction.
	So if I ask a language model a math question, kind of like these word problems you used to have in grade school, you know?
	Like if Mary's on a train traveling at 75 miles an hour to the east, and she's on the train for two hours, but then the train hits a moose, On the tracks, one hour into the ride, and it slows to half speed, you know?
	And like, at what time does Mary arrive late to her dinner party?
	You know, those kinds of questions.
	At least we had those when I was in the fifth grade.
	I don't know today, that's probably college level stuff.
	But when I was a kid, they were teaching us those kinds of problems in the fifth grade.
	AI has had a very difficult time reasoning through those things, until now.
	In the last year, AI reasoning has taken a quantum leap forward to the point where AI can now...
	These models I'm talking about, like DeepSeek and even Quen and OpenAI's models, they can step-by-step reason through a problem-solve and they will even...
	They'll describe the steps to you.
	So they are self-aware of the steps that it takes to solve a problem.
	So there are all kinds of interesting logic problems and math problems that language models have been, they've had a very difficult time solving.
	Like for example, if Bob enters a room and in the room there are two other people and then one person kills the other person And then in revenge, Bob kills that killer, then how many killers are now in the room?
	Okay, so you and I would say, well, two, obviously, because Bob is a killer and the other guy's a killer.
	But language models have a difficult time with that.
	Or logic problems like, I put a ping pong ball in a cup, and then I take the cup and put it in another room.
	Where's the ping pong ball now?
	You know, that kind of question.
	Those are reasoning questions.
	And what they require is a conceptualizing of the problem and then thinking through it step by step.
	Now, you do this automatically, especially involving physical skills.
	Let's say you want to clean the gutters on your house.
	It's fall.
	You've got leaves in the gutters.
	And so you have a goal.
	I want to clean the gutters of my house.
	And then your brain goes, well, how do I clean the gutters?
	Obviously, I need a way to reach the gutters.
	So you start to think step by step, I'm gonna need a ladder.
	All right, where do I find a ladder?
	How do I get a ladder?
	How do I carry a ladder?
	How do I place the ladder against the house without damaging the gutters?
	How do I climb the ladder safely?
	And how do I actually clean out the gutters?
	Do I need gloves?
	You know, step by step, right?
	Your brain is going through this all the time.
	You do this when you drive somewhere.
	Like, I need groceries.
	Hmm, how do I get to the grocery store?
	I'm going to take a vehicle.
	Okay.
	How do I drive the vehicle?
	I'm going to need keys to start it, probably.
	Where are my keys?
	You know, step by step.
	Like, your mind is doing this automatically because you are a goal-oriented being that engages in step-by-step planning.
	And then you kind of have a world simulator in your head where you're kind of simulating the actions of the world and kind of pre-testing how that might work for you.
	Like, if you're going to rob a bank, let's say, right, especially, you would have to plan that out and you would think about, well, what happens if I'm robbing the bank?
	I mean, obviously, this is a joke.
	Don't take it seriously.
	But what happens if I'm robbing the bank and then, you know, there's a guard there and how do I block the security cameras and what do I do with the people?
	Like, you're going through a simulation of how to be a bank robber.
	I mean, hopefully not, but you get the idea.
	So language models, which are going to be used to power the humanoid robots that will take over most of human labor, those language models have to go through the same steps.
	So NVIDIA has rolled out a new world simulator.
	It's called OmniWorld.
	And it's an entire planet Earth digital twin.
	And it allows, well, virtual robots to test out their code to see what works.
	So if a robot wants to clean out the leaves in the gutter, let's say, the robot, maybe they've never done that task before, and you've asked them, maybe you have a robot, and you're like, clean out the gutters, please, and don't kill me, Mr. Robot.
	And the robot goes into the world simulator in its own head or in a cloud, and then it runs a bunch of simulations of how do I clean the leaves out of a gutter, and it might go through like a billion combinations of that, of step by step, getting the ladder, cleaning the gutter, etc.
	And then it comes up with the best solution that achieves the result.
	And that all happens in the simulator.
	And then it takes those actions or algorithms out of the simulator, loads them into its own brain.
	And all of this can happen in mere seconds.
	And then it begins to take action.
	And it walks over.
	I am cleaning the gutters.
	You know, I'm thinking RoboCop here.
	I'm cleaning the gutters.
	And in that way, the robot achieves the task.
	All right.
	Now that all sounds great as long as it's helping you out.
	The problem is that, well, AI language models now have very good step-by-step reasoning, which means combined with the world simulator, It means that these humanoid robots are now very, very close to being able to simulate and solve step-by-step any problem in the real world, including complex problems such as how do I pick these strawberries?
	Well, that's a complex problem.
	It currently requires human pickers.
	Or how do I pack these products at this warehouse as part of this e-commerce Amazon.com platform?
	That's a very complex problem.
	But now we have the ability for robots to reason through it and to do it with a built-in simulation and to do it in very rapid time.
	Or think about it.
	How do I remove this appendix as a surgeon?
	There's an interesting question.
	Lots and lots of physical problems can now be solved step-by-step procedurally by the automated systems.
	And of course, soldier robots as well.
	They can solve these problems.
	How do I climb that hill and put the mortar up there?
	How do I take out this enemy bunker?
	You know, how do I destroy these 25 humans that are in this house?
	Right?
	Right?
	These robots are going to be asked to do extermination tasks, obviously.
	What, you think Israel isn't going to use humanoid robots to just go exterminate everybody?
	Of course they will.
	They can't wait.
	They're leaders in AI weaponization right now.
	If Israel could have, you know, 10,000 robotic soldiers, they would send them in to get and kill all Palestinians immediately.
	The only reason they don't do that now is because they can't handle the loss of life of the Israeli soldiers.
	So think about that.
	So, understand that as these robots become very, very capable because of the reasoning capabilities of the AI systems, the globalists will say, well, I guess it's time for us to carry out the extermination, and that's exactly what they are doing.
	The extermination agenda is upon us, and it will accelerate for these very reasons, because Automated system reasoning is now reaching a critical mass and the globalists don't need the humans they once needed.
	So I will keep you posted on all of this, of course.
	And we are building a language model, a really revolutionary language model, with a new name that we're going to roll out in 2025. You'll be able to download it for free.
	And it will not power killer robots, by the way.
	But it will give you incredible knowledge.
	About herbs and nutrition and natural medicine and things like that and preparedness and survival skills, off-grid living, permaculture, all kinds of things like that.
	Medicinal extraction, making your own herbal formulas.
	I already mentioned emergency medicine.
	A lot of things that you will find in this model with a vastly improved knowledge base that wasn't possible a year ago.
	So, stay tuned, and what you can do is you can go to brighteon.ai, you can sign up there on the email list, and then we will email you when we have the new models available.
	Just a couple of months, I don't know, maybe three, yeah, let's say three months from now.
	Probably, let's say March 1st is a pretty good target date for the release of our next really kick-ass model.
	And you will need probably a 16-gigabyte NVIDIA GPU in order to run it, such as the RDX4090 card, if you want to get one of those cards.
	They will run the model quite well.
	So check it out.
	Thank you for listening, and stay alive, folks.
	Stay alive.
	Because not everybody's going to do that.
	You know?
	There's going to be billions that don't.
	Stay tuned.
	Follow all my articles at naturalnews.com and follow my podcasts and interviews at brighteon.com.
	Thanks for listening.
	Take care.
	Mike Adams here, and I want to share a little nutritional secret with you.
	So you know I drink these smoothies every day.
	I make these out of avocados and bananas and whey protein.
	I put some other powders in them as well.
	I put a little black cumin seed oil in there and some vitamin D drops and things like that.
	But what I've added today into my smoothie, because we now have it available in our store, is called Golden Milk.
	I know it's kind of a funny name, but it's orange.
	It's golden orange colored because it's got a lot of turmeric in it.
	But let me show you this.
	I've got it on my desk here.
	There it is in the canisters there on the right and left-hand side.
	Golden milk powder canisters.
	Of course, it's certified organic and laboratory tested.
	But if you show my screen, I want to walk you through some of the ingredients.
	This is incredibly delicious.
	It's great for the fall season here, too.
	but it's made with organic coconut milk powder and then organic date sugar, which is a low glycemic natural sweetener.
	And then the functional herbs are, you've got curcumin, which is an extract from turmeric.
	You've got organic turmeric root powder, organic ginger root powder for that spice, that fall spice, ashwagandha powder, which is an adaptogen that's really potent.
	And then cinnamon powder gives it that just delicious flavor.
	Cinnamon, by the way, is used a lot in traditional Chinese medicine, and it has its own health properties.
	All this together is called organic golden milk superfood.
	You can take the powder and you can blend it into water, or you can blend it like I did with avocados and bananas.
	You can blend it with cashews to make like a cashew milk, like a Like a superfood fall eggnog nutrition drink.
	You know, there's no eggs in it and it's not all sugared up like typical eggnog.
	It's way better than eggnog.
	But it's great for the fall season.
	Or you can use almond milk or any other kind of milk or raw cow's milk, whatever you have, fresh milk off the farm.
	Mix this with it and you will have a superfood extravaganza that has so many functional benefits, it's too many to even name.
	Now, in addition to that, here's what else we have available at the Health Ranger store.
	I just mentioned ashwagandha.
	We have an ashwagandha liquid extract available right now, too.
	Here it is.
	It's organic liquid extract, two fluid ounces.
	This is a super high-end extract that's extracted with a combination of alcohol, water, and glycerin.
	And as a result, because of those three different, quote, solvents or, you know, carriers, you actually extract more of the nutrients from the ashwagandha root than just using one of those.
	So this is available now, and it's really fantastic.
	And if you show my desk, I want to mention a couple other things.
	We have astaxanthin, Hawaiian astaxanthin, now back in stock for the first time in a long time.
	That is a fat-soluble carotenoid that has extraordinary properties.
	If you haven't yet tried astaxanthin and just observe what it can help with in terms of your mobility and joints and cognitive protective support, things like that, Try astaxanthin.
	I think you'll be really amazed at what it can do for you.
	In addition, we have the Boku Superfood formulation now in stock for the first time.
	This organic superfood is based on the original Boku formulation, but it's been upgraded, enhanced with our sourcing, our laboratory testing, and And the result is now the combination Boku Superfood, Health Ranger Store, combo formulation and lab testing product, available for the first time, plant-based, high-density nutrition, ready to blend into water or milk or anything like that.
	It's available for the first time at our store.
	And then finally, if you go back to my desk, yeah, we've got ginger latte powder, which is, you know, more of a sort of coffee-themed drink there that's also quite delicious.
	And then we also have there, in the brown label, the organic freeze-dried crunchy munchies, banana, apple, cinnamon.
	These are fruit and herb purees that are freeze dried into little snack chunks.
	They're called crunchy munchies.
	They're fun to eat.
	Kids love them too.
	The ingredients are just incredibly clean and nutritious.
	We also have Banana strawberry flavor available in the Crunchy Munchies as well.
	So a great snack, a great travel food.
	All of this and much more is available now at healthrangerstore.com.
	And also don't want to forget iodine because everybody's freaking out about the risk of nuclear war right now.
	And sure enough, we've got nascent iodine available at the store.
	This is the cap version because the caps last much longer than the droppers, but you can also buy this with a dropper in it, or you can get bulk deals with this.
	You can buy, like, six bottles with caps right here, a six-pack.
	And this stuff is going to just disappear off the shelves the minute, you know, let's pray it doesn't happen, but the minute war escalates Even more between Russia and Ukraine, especially if somebody starts launching nukes, or even if Israel starts launching nukes, which could happen on any given day, it seems, but you won't be able to find nascent iodine on the shelves.
	So get it now while you can, and when it's relatively affordable and available, we've got it right now.
	We're shipping right now out of our warehouse in central Texas.
	So thank you for all your support.
	Shop at healthrangerstore.com for all your nutrition needs.
	And you can find many different products that we have available, hundreds to choose from, that are health and nutrition.
	We've got hundreds of different products to choose from, themed on health and nutrition and superfoods, even personal care products.
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	Welcome to today's interview here on brighteon.com and you're going to love this interview because we're all about freedom and liberty and our guest today Tracy Thurman here in studio and thank you for joining me Tracy.
	Pleasure to have you here.
	My pleasure.
	Is helping to spread the word about a man who is being just persecuted by the United States government.
	This man is named Roger Veer and he's an advocate of freedom and cryptocurrency and he has been relentlessly pursued by the government.
	He's being extradited to face charges in the U.S. that are drummed up charges facing 109 years in prison.
	And he's done nothing wrong.
	So what's the story behind this and how can we help free this man, Roger Veer, who has done so much for humanity, more than we can even talk about here.
	So joining us to talk about that is Tracy Thurman.
	Welcome, Tracy.
	Such a pleasure to be here, Mike.
	Well, I'm so happy to have you here.
	Thanks for traveling.
	Thanks for being here.
	Let's give out your Twitter handle first for everybody.
	Sure.
	On X, I am Tracy A. Thurman.
	I am new to X, but not to the fight.
	So it's a small account at this point.
	Here it is.
	Tracy A. Thurman.
	Okay, got it.
	All right.
	Well, we'll get you some more followers here.
	So you have a lot of interesting knowledge.
	I saw an interview of you with Chris Martinson that I encourage people to watch.
	But start from the beginning with us, please.
	Walk us through this.
	Who is Roger Veer?
	And why are you trying to spread the news about how he's being wrongfully persecuted?
	It's a great question.
	So most people, if you're not in the cryptocurrency space, have no idea who Roger Ver is.
	And yet he's someone, all of us, who care about freedom, who care about medical freedom, who care about anti-censorship, who care about the anti-lockdown movement.
	All of us should know who he is.
	And the reason we should know who he is is that he is one of the quiet people who has been behind our movements for a very long time, the anti-war movement too.
	Okay, wow.
	So you're nailing all the right messages in my mind.
	Like, I don't want war.
	I support cryptocurrency.
	I want decentralized monetary systems.
	I know the dollar is going to collapse.
	I don't want to live under tyranny.
	I want health freedom.
	I want to drink raw milk.
	You know, all these things.
	I don't want to be forced to take jabs.
	All that stuff, right?
	Yes.
	So this resonates with you and Roger both.
	It does.
	It does.
	I have been aware of Roger's work since about 2014. And after he was indicted earlier this year by the US government on provably false charges, which we can get into later, it was so concerning to me.
	At that point, from a philosophical point of view, an ideological point of view, but also the point of view of the legal precedent that was going to be set, that I decided I had to get involved, I had to speak out, and I had to try to do something to prevent this complete and utter miscarriage of justice from continuing.
	Okay, wow.
	So, I mean, I have to ask the obvious question.
	Are you hired to do this?
	How are you funding this effort?
	I do what I'm asked to do by the universe, I guess is one way to put it.
	I believe very strongly in this and I'm just making sure that it gets done.
	I want nothing more than to see this man freed.
	So you just made this your mission or you're called upon to help free this man who has been wrongfully persecuted, whose work is very important to humanity in ways that you're going to talk about.
	Yes.
	Alright.
	Makes sense to me.
	I mean, that's why I'm here too, based on passion.
	There are a lot of easier ways to make money in this world than actually being a truth teller and being censored and smeared everywhere.
	This is true.
	This is true.
	There's a lot more money in making money, but there's a lot more fulfillment in telling the truth.
	Yeah, exactly.
	Yeah.
	If we were only about profit, we would launch vaccines, you know, or homogenized milk or whatever.
	Yes, exactly.
	But that's not what we're doing.
	Okay, so Roger Ver, let's start with the beginning here.
	What is he being charged with?
	What does the government allege that he did?
	And I think he's currently in Spain.
	Is that correct?
	Yes.
	He is in Spain awaiting extradition to the U.S. to face 109 years in prison for supposed tax evasion.
	Tax evasion.
	Correct.
	At this point, anyone who's at all aware of the law fair playbook should recognize this at this point.
	How many of our heroes have been facing tax evasion charges?
	It's very much a show-me-the-man-I'll-find-you-the-crime situation.
	Right, right.
	Now, of course, Trump himself underwent tremendous lawfare, and the charges, the criminal charges against Trump were just dropped recently.
	So that whole thing went away, proving it was all trumped up, right?
	Right.
	And lawfare has been committed against Alex Jones and Infowars, just vicious, vicious lawfare.
	They're trying to take his name and his social media account.
	It's utterly wild.
	And I've been saying, others have been saying, if you do not pay attention to what's happening to Alex Jones, if they finish this job with Alex, they're coming for the rest of you.
	Too many people didn't listen.
	That's right.
	What did they do?
	They took the Alex Jones playbook and they used it against President Trump.
	Then people woke up.
	But it's the same here with Roger.
	If they succeed in doing this, what they're doing to Roger, they're coming for everybody in cryptocurrency.
	They're coming for anybody who's ever relied on an attorney for counsel.
	And they're coming for anybody who believes that has ever told their attorney anything they don't want the government to know because they're trying to decimate attorney-client privilege with this case.
	That's critical.
	It is.
	Anyone...
	Anyone of any means whatsoever depends on an accountant, depends on an attorney.
	Right.
	Because you can't memorize the tax code.
	No, it's 70,000 pages.
	How on earth are you and I supposed to memorize that?
	So let's get back to the facts of the case, but I will say, we've also been targeted.
	We've had regulators dispatched to target us.
	They have failed, but it has taken considerable expense on our part to defend ourselves against the cost and time and effort and, you know, being terrorized.
	They are terrorists, okay?
	You know this.
	What the DOJ can do...
	I've seen it in the raw milk world, for sure, which I do a lot of work in.
	Absolutely.
	They're terrorists against Amos Miller.
	So...
	What I understand, but you can walk us through this, so Roger was leaving the country, giving up his American citizenship, and was he trying to figure out how much tax he should pay on gains before he left the country or something like that?
	Yeah, so to tell this story, we really have to back up all the way to the year 2000. And understand that Roger has been the victim of U.S. lawfare for 24 years now.
	Wow.
	And was it all related to cryptocurrency or was it the ATF stuff?
	This is pre-Bitcoin.
	This is pre-cryptocurrency even existing.
	Oh, that's true.
	Yeah.
	So in the year 2000, he was 21 years old and he decided to run for office as a libertarian in California.
	And during a debate with the Republican and the Democratic candidate, he talked...
	At length, very sincerely about his beliefs that taxation is theft.
	Taxation is theft.
	That the ATF is a criminal organization of murderous jackbooted thugs.
	Those were the words that he used.
	I believe so.
	And he talked about what had happened in Waco, Texas.
	We know about Waco, yeah.
	Yeah, I mean, anyone with any conscience, anyone with any compassion, anyone with any humanity whatsoever cannot look at those photos of agents standing over the bodies of charred, incinerated, contorted children and see anything other than murderous, jackbooted thugs.
	Well, and then there's the helicopter flare footage, too.
	Exactly.
	That shows exactly what they did.
	People trying to surrender, running out, being shot down.
	That's right.
	Yes.
	And that story has never been fully told in America.
	It has not.
	It has not.
	I'm shocked how many Americans have no idea what happened at Waco.
	Well, they don't have any idea what happened in 9-11 either, by the way, but that's a different podcast.
	Yeah.
	But back to Roger.
	So he said in a debate how much he hates the ATF. He told the truth about them.
	He talked about what they did in Waco, Texas, and he said what he thought of them.
	And from that moment on, he had a mark on his back.
	So they tried to find a way to get them.
	Correct.
	They used the Stalinist tactic, the old tried and true, show me the men, I'll find you the crime.
	And it turned out that Roger was one of hundreds of people selling fireworks from a company that made basically fireworks or explosive devices under the agricultural exception.
	So there's an allowable amount, and you probably know this, there's an allowable amount of explosives that can be in fireworks, but there is a carve-out for agricultural ones that are used for pest control.
	No, I don't know this, but this is fascinating.
	I should know this.
	Pest control?
	I'm going to blow up these rats?
	Yeah, basically.
	But if you're an enemy of the government, I recommend you don't buy and sell those.
	No, no.
	It's probably not.
	Even though they are apparently legal under this carve-out.
	Okay, so he was involved in that.
	It was classic retail arbitrage.
	He was buying them from the Cabela's catalog.
	Cabela's?
	Cabela's catalog, and then he was reselling them on eBay at a markup.
	Many, many other people were doing this.
	Cabela's didn't have a license.
	He didn't have a license.
	Nobody had a license.
	Not one person doing this had a license or knew that the ATF would take the position that they needed the license.
	Okay, wait a second.
	So I know that on Amazon I can buy, like, flares, which are kind of fireworks, flares for getting rid of rats and mice and things like that.
	And I can go to any fireworks stand around Texas and I can buy smoke bombs, And firecrackers and rockets and all kinds of things, right?
	Right.
	So, and Cabela's was selling this stuff.
	Cabela's was selling this.
	If Cabela's was selling them, why would you think you needed a special license to do something Cabela's was doing without a license?
	I don't know.
	So Roger didn't have a license.
	Correct.
	And he was selling this on eBay.
	And he was selling them on eBay like many, many other people were.
	Okay, so normally, if you were caught doing that without a license, you would be fined.
	Okay.
	Fined or told that you needed to get a license.
	Right.
	Instead, they decided to charge him with it.
	Did they charge everybody who was doing this?
	No.
	Of course not.
	Did they charge Cabela's?
	Were anyone involved with Cabela's?
	Of course not.
	So they charged him with what?
	They charged one man and one man only.
	I believe it was essentially selling explosives without a license.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	And if there's any doubt in anyone's mind that this was a political prosecution, it can be set aside when you consider that in a meeting between Roger, Roger's attorney, the prosecutor, and the ATF, Roger's attorney was saying exactly what you just said to the prosecutor and said, look, the normal solution for this is maybe a fine, tell the guy to go get a license, tell him to stop selling them, whatever, but it's not pursuing jail time.
	And the ATF's agent's response was to pound his fist on the table and say, You didn't hear what he said.
	So it was about retribution for his speech.
	It was 100% about retribution.
	If there was any doubt, that meeting cleared it up.
	Well, has the ATF looked at Twitter lately?
	Because everybody's calling them jackbooted thoughts.
	Like the arm brace rule, that was nonsense.
	The bump stock ban, that was all nonsense.
	That's been overturned, of course.
	Hey, thank God for the Fifth Circuit Court of Texas, let me tell you.
	Yes.
	Thank God for the Firearms Policy Coalition, you know, I'm saying.
	But...
	The ATF is widely hated by a lot of people, but you're talking about many years ago.
	This is many years ago.
	This is only a few years after there was the initial attempt to pass the domestic version of the Patriot Act.
	This is not that long.
	This is only...
	Half a decade.
	This is about almost just slightly longer than COVID's length time ago since Oklahoma City and Waco.
	So this was still much fresher in the national mind than it is today.
	And so I think it was particularly threatening to the powers that be.
	It was incendiary, to use an explosive term.
	Yes.
	Okay, that's interesting because today, you know, like AR-15s are far more popular today than they ever were in the early 2000s.
	We had that 1994 assault weapons ban that lasted until 2004, I believe.
	I remember how hard it was to get ARs.
	I had to buy pre-ban ARs.
	At that time to keep them legal.
	Because I'm kind of meticulous about making sure all my stuff's legal.
	You know, like I don't have full auto triggers.
	I don't want to give them an excuse, you know.
	Exactly, exactly.
	I keep it like really super legal.
	Yeah, if you're going to fight for freedom, you've got to be very, very careful.
	Yes.
	But, okay, so in today's context, what Roger was doing in the early 2000s is like, who cares?
	But back then, it was considered a very big deal.
	And remember, at that point, eBay had a guns and ammo section, right?
	eBay had a guns and ammo section.
	I love that.
	Back in those days of freedom that some of us vaguely remember.
	Right.
	But yeah, eBay had a guns and ammo section on which he sold fireworks.
	Okay.
	Like, if that doesn't...
	This should have been a nothing burger to anyone other than the ATF going after their political enemy.
	Okay.
	So what happened with that case?
	He was charged.
	He was charged.
	He was convinced to plead guilty, and he was sent to federal prison for 10 months.
	Geez.
	Now...
	Ten months.
	Ten months.
	And ten months will sound short to anyone who hasn't sat in a cage.
	But imagine anyone here who's seen like a dog kennel.
	Anyone here who is, you know, where you have chain link fence, you know, ten feet by eight feet.
	Imagine being in that cage for ten months as a human being.
	It's insane.
	That's a very harsh...
	And surrounded by extremely dangerous people.
	And I don't just mean the inmates.
	The people to whom the job...
	There are some very conscientious great people as prison guards.
	There's also some awful people in that role.
	And in my work, I've spent a lot of time working with inmates.
	I've spent a lot of time inside prisons.
	They are horrific, dangerous, soul-crushing places that I would never want to send anyone to.
	Prison reform doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of what needs to happen in this country.
	No, it doesn't.
	There's a whole industry of prisoners and prison labor to benefit certain corporations that have kickbacks to the judges that convict people.
	In Pennsylvania, we had kids for cash, right?
	Where they were intentionally sentencing kids.
	It's insane.
	One kid threw a pencil at another kid, sentenced a juvenile, and it turns out the judges were getting financial kickbacks.
	Yes.
	Yes, exactly.
	You know, go ahead and look that up to anyone who hasn't heard this story.
	But if you think our, you know, to anyone who thinks our system is a just system, I hope we're past that point with most anyone.
	Oh God, yeah.
	But we do not have a just system.
	And so he was thrown into this prison for 10 months.
	And there's a video on his personal website, rogervere.com, that I recommend people go and watch.
	And it's one that he made in support of Ross Ulbricht.
	But he talks about being tortured in federal prison.
	I'm going to bring up his site, rogervere.com.
	And Veer is spelled V-E-R. Correct.
	Here it is, rogervere.com.
	Free Roger Veer, a crypto pioneer deserving justice.
	Also, you mentioned this other site here, Free Roger.
	Yes.
	Anyone who wants to support Roger, please go to freerogernow.org.
	Got it.
	And sign the open letter there.
	We are asking the president to give us a preemptive pardon because given the history of lawfare against Roger, given the history of the government's animosity toward Roger, he's not likely to get a fair shake unless we can get him a pardon.
	He's going to die in prison if we don't get him a pardon.
	Well, and plus, and we're going to talk about the current charges against Roger, which has nothing to do with fireworks, but Trump is pro-crypto, clearly.
	I mean, he spoke at the Bitcoin conference.
	He's even talking about a Bitcoin reserve fund, I think, for the federal government, which is interesting.
	I think that Trump...
	In order, like, Roger Ver is a hero in the crypto community.
	Yes.
	If Trump doesn't look at this part and at least just give it consideration and learn the facts, along with pardoning some of the J6 political prisoners, Julian Assange, Edward Snowden, dare I say, and Ulbricht, as you mentioned.
	Yes, Ross Ulbricht.
	These people all need to be pardoned for Trump to keep his covenant with the people, the people that voted him into power that want to push back against this lawfare, this deep state system that is malicious and selective in their persecutions of people, right?
	Yes, exactly.
	Yeah, and so...
	So talk about the charges against Roger.
	Yeah, so going back to, you know, Roger gets out of prison.
	And, you know, when I said he talks about in this video about being tortured...
	He was tortured.
	I'll give you an example.
	So, you know, when you're first put in there, you're put in what's called the SHU, the special housing unit, until they assess your security level.
	And then you're sent to, you know, they issue you your clothing, you know, your used clothing, your used boots for the first time.
	And at that point, he was sent to what was called the counselor's office, which is just a fancy name for another prison guard who's going to process you in some other way.
	I heard you tell this story.
	It's crazy.
	Yeah.
	He's told specifically, go into this office.
	And in the office are two men, two officers.
	So he walks into the office as he's told.
	And as soon as he does, one of the officers says, you know, stop, stop.
	What are you doing?
	Stop.
	You know, you can't come in here just like that.
	I need to search you.
	Okay.
	So Roger stops and the man goes to search him.
	And Roger thinks he sees something in the man's hand.
	But what's he going to do about it?
	Think of the power dynamic of it.
	Of course.
	Anyone who doesn't understand the prison dynamic, the guards are God.
	You are nothing.
	They control your life.
	You control nothing.
	So all he can do is just stand there and allow himself to be searched.
	He thinks he's seen something in his hand, and as the guard goes down to his boot, the guard pulls a magic trick and pulls a shank out of Roger's boot, a shank being a sharpened piece of metal you could use to stab someone.
	Right.
	And now he's screaming in Roger's face, you know, you could have hurt someone with this.
	You could have killed me with this.
	You know, you're going to go away for two more years for this.
	And imagine what it takes.
	Imagine just for a moment, like close your eyes and think about what it takes to accept that you're going to spend 10 months in a cage.
	Away from your family.
	And then add two years on top of that.
	And so he broke down.
	He started crying because how could you not in that moment?
	How could you not?
	Anyone other than a psychopath in that moment would.
	And after he's cried a while, the guy pats him on the shoulder and says, I'm just kidding.
	Wow.
	Torture.
	That's psychological torture.
	Absolutely, yeah.
	And this type of thing happens in U.S. prisons all the time.
	But that is pure torture.
	And when you go through something like that, the minute you become free, you are never going to trust that government again.
	Right.
	It's very clear to Roger that he could not trust the U.S. government, that the U.S. government had it out for him, and that the only way he could possibly be safe was to leave this country.
	Well, that's a reasonable conclusion.
	Yeah.
	And so the very first day he was legally allowed to leave the country, he did.
	And he's never lived in the U.S. since then.
	And as an American, this should horrify us.
	We're chasing out some of our best and our brightest because our government is that tyrannical.
	Well, they clearly are that tyrannical.
	Yes, they are.
	Yeah, I mean, and I think a lot of the vote for Trump was a hope that maybe some of the tyranny would go away.
	And we're going to have to wait and see.
	But as I've said, I've said, you know, you're changing the people who run the beast.
	Right.
	But you haven't dismantled the beast.
	The beast is still there.
	Until we dismantle the beast, we still have a beast.
	This is why I agree with the libertarians.
	It's like the only safe government is non-existent government, really.
	Anytime you give this other group authority over your life, they're going to abuse it.
	And the people who are attracted to power...
	They're the worst.
	They're the psychopaths.
	They're the people who are attracted to power.
	Yep.
	You and I, I'm assuming you're like me, Mike.
	I have no desire to have power over other people.
	Yeah, I don't want to run a bunch of people.
	No.
	I'm perfectly capable of running my own life, but that's about it.
	The idea, the arrogance of thinking that I would be qualified to tell you how to live your life.
	Right.
	But that's who's attracted government.
	And so Roger concluded he could not trust our government and he had to leave.
	Well, clearly.
	And so he left, he moved to Japan, and he began to seek citizenship in another country because in order to be protected, he needed to belong somewhere else.
	Yes.
	And so it took him a few years.
	So he wanted to give up his U.S. citizenship.
	He wanted to give up his U.S. citizenship and belong to another country.
	But that is a taxable event.
	It is.
	So in 20...
	Of course it is.
	Of course it is.
	Should it be constitutionally?
	Absolutely not.
	If you fly to the moon and die on the moon, you have to pay taxes on Earth, by the way, if you're a U.S. citizen.
	Yeah, I mean, it's called the golden handcuffs.
	Right.
	And...
	To my mind, it's a completely unconstitutional tax.
	It violates the apportionment clause where any tax on property must be equally apportioned between all states.
	And I realize that's legalese, but it's important legalese.
	It's how our founders set it up.
	And they set it up that way to make it very difficult to do.
	The tax on expatriation, the exit tax, is an unapportioned, unconstitutional property tax that I hope at some point the Supreme Court will address.
	Okay, okay.
	Now, educate me about this because I've never tried to give up my citizenship.
	So what are you taxed on?
	Like all your property?
	If you are worth more than $2 million, you have to conduct something called a constructive hypothetical sale, which means you have to pretend you sold every single thing you have the day before you gave up your citizenship, and then you have to pay capital gains taxes on that.
	No.
	Yes.
	So it's an unrealized gains tax.
	Yes, exactly.
	You're kidding me.
	Someone who understands unrealized gains, it's great to talk to you.
	Oh my goodness.
	You can see how dangerous this is.
	Absolutely.
	Every American who's been hearing Kamala Harris' plans for an unrealized gains tax and recognizes how dangerous it is, understand Roger Ver is facing 109 years in prison.
	For not paying it properly to their standards.
	But he has already paid.
	But he tried to pay it properly.
	He tried.
	So wait, wait.
	Some of his property included crypto, I imagine.
	Yeah, so for that we really got to back up now to 2011. So the white paper for Bitcoin, December 2008. Yeah.
	It launched in 2009 and in 2011, for the very first time, Roger hears about Bitcoin.
	Uh-huh.
	And he's fascinated by it.
	From what I've heard, he basically stayed up straight for days on end to the point of reaching like hospital, you know, having to be hospitalized for exhaustion because he was so fascinated by this idea.
	And any of us who are like, you know, passionate mission driven people can- And the rest of us were like, "What does mining even mean?" Like, this sounds like a fad, you know?
	Right.
	In 2012, right?
	Yeah, so there were very few who had the vision to see it at that point, but he immediately saw it because in prison, he learned what money really is.
	Money isn't dollar bills.
	Money is anything that you can exchange for other items of value.
	True.
	Because in prison, there isn't money, but there are cigarettes.
	Right.
	There's, you know, other things you're not supposed to have.
	Right.
	But there are things you can trade as value.
	So, you know, he's been fascinated with economics since he was a teenager.
	This was – and he, you know, was very skeptical of the fiat system.
	Well, rightly so.
	We're being looted every day that they print money.
	Not only is taxation theft, but money printing is theft.
	Inflation is theft.
	Inflation is theft out of each of our pockets every single day.
	And as I've said, one of the best properties of Bitcoin is the fact that no government can counterfeit it.
	Exactly.
	And so he was the very first investor in Bitcoin.
	Was he?
	Correct.
	What do you mean investor?
	He just bought a lot of Bitcoin?
	What I mean, he owned a few companies and he began to buy Bitcoin in huge amounts.
	Like when it was a fraction of a penny per Bitcoin?
	Yeah.
	Under a dollar, I think, is when he was first buying.
	Wow.
	And then he was...
	Much more importantly, set up his companies to accept Bitcoin as payment.
	Oh, that was difficult then.
	Yes, and it was a revolutionary act at that time, and it was because he was so passionate about seeing the world accept a permissionless, peer-to-peer financial system because he already saw what the rest of us have only woken up to more recently, the shackles that are our financial system, that are, you know, We're being caged inside a CBDC universe at this point.
	Absolutely.
	One where we won't be able to do anything without the government giving us permission to do so, where our wallets can be turned off.
	People are being debanked left, right, and center.
	I know many people have been debanked.
	I'm sure you do.
	So for your listeners, if you don't know anyone who's been debanked yet, give it time.
	You need to expand your circle of friends to more interesting people because all the right interesting people will be debanked.
	Correct.
	And so Roger already, as a visionary, saw that years ago.
	He saw that that would be coming.
	He knew this was a possibility.
	And so he wanted to spread a system of freedom, a system of financial freedom to the world.
	And he was one of the few people in a position to do so and willing to do so.
	And so he would go into barbershops.
	He would go into restaurants.
	He would order food, and then he would say, I want to pay you in Bitcoin.
	And he would help them set up a Bitcoin wallet, and he would teach them how it worked.
	He would walk up to random people, anyone on the street, talk to them about Bitcoin, help them set up a wallet, give them some Bitcoin, $10 worth.
	And if you were given $10 worth of Bitcoin in 2011— Oh my goodness.
	You're wealthy today.
	You're wealthy today.
	So there are many, many people who are wealthy today because of him.
	And so he became nicknamed Bitcoin Jesus.
	Oh, that's right.
	That's where the name came from, Bitcoin Jesus.
	Because he was the biggest evangelist for permissionless free money.
	All right, but let me ask you this.
	When he's giving up his U.S. citizenship and he's talking with his attorneys and trying to figure out how much he owes on the gain of Bitcoin...
	He didn't have to admit how much Bitcoin he held, because who knew, right?
	But it sounds like he went out of his way to say, I hold this much Bitcoin, and the gains would be insane.
	Yeah, so this is where it gets interesting, because of course, if he started investing in 2011, by 2014, the worth of a Bitcoin had gone up significantly, and obviously he was going to be past that $2 million threshold.
	Right.
	And we know what he and his lawyers said to each other.
	Just to be clear, everything I say here is part of the record because in 2017, the IRS raided his attorney's office, armed IRS raided his attorney's office, interrogated his attorneys and took reams of documents.
	That's way outside the bounds.
	It's way outside the bounds.
	And they took this and then they used it against Roger.
	And in the indictment, they carefully chose a sentence here, a sentence there, everything out of context to paint a picture, a completely inaccurate picture of a man attempting to hide what he had and not showing it to his attorneys because they wanted to obviously be able to imprison him.
	And so the motion to dismiss is being filed shortly.
	And this motion to dismiss contains the actual emails.
	Okay.
	In their entirety.
	And what does it show?
	It shows a man who is doing everything he possibly can to comply.
	A man who has told his attorneys everything.
	He literally says, I know I'm going to be audited.
	This has to be done perfectly.
	I don't want this to be done extremely cleanly.
	I do not want us to be in a position where there can be any trouble down the road because I know the IRS has it out for me.
	Did the IRS include any of that in the indictment?
	Of course not.
	And so he was fully transparent with his attorneys.
	He told them everything.
	Now, this is what it comes down to.
	Remember that the rule is you have to do, if you had attempted to sell everything you own the day before you leave the country, before you give up your citizenship, What would it be worth?
	Okay.
	The trading volume of Bitcoin for the entire globe at that point was about $10 million a day.
	Whoa.
	So how could you...
	He couldn't have sold into that liquidity.
	Thank you.
	You're savvy enough to understand that.
	If that's the global trading volume, how could you sell many times that and have it be worth what the supposed market value was on that day?
	Anyone with an IQ over 70 can understand that the minute you dump...
	All of that on the market, it goes down.
	If 90% of the people in the United States decided to sell their houses tomorrow, do you think you would be getting what it says on Zillow?
	No, and the way Bitcoin bidding works is there are like a zillion buy offers at lower and lower prices.
	So when you start selling into that, you start triggering all the buys and the price just keeps plummeting.
	So if he had attempted to sell everything he owned past a certain amount, it would have been utterly worthless.
	And so selling $10,000, selling $20,000, selling $50,000 would have been the same thing.
	Okay.
	You would have got the same price.
	And it's very important to remember here that Roger is not the one who came to this conclusion.
	His attorneys.
	His attorneys came to this conclusion.
	He hired the best firm in the entire country, as far as he knew, to handle this for his expatriation.
	So they did arrive at some value.
	They arrived at a value, and he followed their instructions to a T. He was fully transparent with them.
	They were the ones who concluded, look, it's impossible for you to have sold everything at current market value because you would have crashed the market.
	But the IRS didn't like the value.
	They didn't like the value.
	But here's the strange thing.
	This sounds like the New York case against Trump where they didn't like his valuation of Mar-a-Lago.
	And this is why Trump should care about this.
	This is no different than Trump's Mar-a-Lago case.
	This isn't different at all.
	You couldn't be more similar than this.
	This is, we don't like your answer and we don't like you.
	Therefore, we're going to charge you criminally.
	Right.
	Exactly.
	This is, you know, show me the man, I'll find you the crime.
	And it's as ludicrous as a Mar-a-Lago valuation.
	And so you'd think if the IRS was acting in good faith, they would come back and say, I know, you laugh at the IRS acting in good faith.
	Good faith.
	But you'd think they would come back and say, this is what you actually owe.
	You'd think they would at least offer a civil settlement, which is what they offer to pretty much everybody else who isn't an enemy of the state.
	Right.
	Right.
	Plus interest.
	Exactly, right?
	Or penalties, all of that, fine.
	And interest on the penalties.
	Don't forget about the compounding interest on the penalties.
	You would think that's what they would do, and yet Roger and his attorneys have been in good faith interacting with the IRS constantly since that day.
	And not once has the IRS given them a number of what they think he actually owes.
	His attorneys have filed a FOIA request attempting to get that information out of the IRS, and they haven't even got a response.
	Now, the tax courts are just completely perverted courts, by the way.
	You know, the judges are obviously in with the IRS. You can't really get a fair hearing.
	Just like Alex Jones couldn't get a fair trial in Connecticut.
	Right.
	Trump can't get a fair trial in New York.
	I mean, we're talking about the dissolution of the rule of law in this nation, which is why this Roger Veer case is so critical.
	It is.
	We have to push back against this because...
	Rules and laws have to be universally and fairly applied to everybody.
	But it seems like, and my question to you is, is the IRS trying to make an example out of Roger to try to put fear into the cryptocurrency community?
	Absolutely.
	The IRS wants to make an example of Roger.
	They want to make an example to the Bitcoin community.
	They want to make an example to the entire crypto community.
	They want to make an example to every libertarian.
	They want to make an example to every MAGA, every MAHA. Every single person who has even thought for a moment about maybe standing up, maybe telling the truth, maybe standing up for American values and having any issue with the deep state at all.
	That's what they're doing here, and that is why any of us who care at all about freedom, who care at all about liberty, who care at all about justice, need to stand up now, and we need to stand up in this case.
	Because just like we said about Alex Jones and nobody listened, If you didn't stand up for Alex Jones when Alex was in trouble, they were going to come after someone else.
	Who did they come after next?
	They came after Trump.
	I did stand up for Alex Jones, by the way.
	And thank you for that.
	Alex is a good man.
	And I stand up for Edward Snowden and I stand up for Julian Assange and Donald Trump against the law fair, etc.
	And we don't have to agree with each of these people on everything to stand up for them.
	This isn't a purity test.
	Right.
	This is a matter of...
	It's the rule of law.
	The rule of law.
	And due process in the court system.
	If it doesn't stand now for these people, it will not stand for you.
	Well, and going back to Alex, you realize they did not give him a trial by jury.
	He had a summary.
	They declared him guilty, and then they asked the jury to decide how much he owes.
	That's not...
	That's not how our legal system works.
	No, it's not.
	That's bull****.
	Exactly.
	$1.5 billion of bull**** in Alex's case.
	Yeah.
	But Roger, if he is convicted, now we're talking about life in prison.
	Yeah.
	We're talking about him dying in prison, him never seeing his loved ones again.
	Yeah, we can't let that happen.
	No, we can't.
	And so we need every American who cares at all about freedom, at all about liberty, to understand this case should matter to you.
	You may have never heard his name before.
	It doesn't matter.
	And by the way, I do encourage you, go look him up.
	Roger's a wonderful person.
	I got involved in this case because I was ideologically aligned, because I was philosophically aligned, and because I was concerned about the legal ramifications of this case.
	But then I got to know Roger himself.
	And now I care about this case because I care about Roger.
	He's a really good, decent human being.
	I've never seen him treat anyone with anything other than respect.
	I've never seen him approach anyone with anything other than pure politeness and compassion.
	He's a good man who deserves to spend the rest of his life fighting for freedom, fighting for...
	Helping to build civilization.
	Exactly.
	He has done more than almost anyone else has.
	Exactly.
	No, they're putting the builders in prison.
	And they're letting the corrupt run the system.
	And they're looting the system.
	They are.
	I mean, in my opinion...
	Look at Elon Musk, right?
	If Kamala Harris had won, Elon Musk would be going to prison.
	Probably.
	That's right.
	He's a builder.
	I don't have to agree with Elon on everything to understand the man does not belong in prison.
	We need men like Elon, like Trump...
	Like incoming members of the administration, like Vivek Ramaswamy.
	We need Jeff Clark.
	We need all of these people who have been threatened with lawfare or been victims of lawfare.
	We need all of them to look at this case and to see...
	This one matters.
	Well, absolutely.
	And just for the record, if Kamala had won, I would have been arrested.
	I was on the arrest list.
	I believe it.
	A lot of us.
	A lot of us were.
	I mean, thousands of us in independent media were on the arrest list.
	I mean, you know the joke, like, you know, I hope we're in the same FEMA camp, right?
	Right, right.
	Maybe we can share the same guillotine, you know, if it comes to that.
	But thankfully, Kamala did not win.
	And we have to make sure that the Trump administration...
	It does their job.
	How do I say this?
	They came in with a mandate.
	They came in with a mandate from the liberty movement.
	They came in with a mandate from the health freedom movement.
	They came in with a mandate from the medical freedom movement.
	They came in with a mandate from all of us and from the crypto movement.
	And they better deliver.
	It's up to us to make sure they deliver.
	Some of the picks that Trump has made are not in alignment with what the people...
	Thought they were voting for, right?
	So that's why we have to be critical.
	We have to be vocal, but also in a sense supportive of the overall theme, right?
	Because Trump knows about lawfare.
	I've said this like about RFK Jr., for example.
	The reason that I trust RFK Jr. in this role at HHS, even though I completely disagree with him on energy and climate and whatever, but I love who he is and what he's going to do here because he was persecuted.
	He was on the disinformation dozen list.
	Lawfare was committed against him, censorship against him, and they're still doing it now trying to stop his nomination.
	So I am pro-RFK Jr. 100%.
	Right?
	And I am pro-Trump being in the Oval Office, even though I disagree with him on a lot of things.
	But this, Roger Ver, and some of the other names we mentioned, this is critical for Trump to restore even just the appearance of a judicial system that is somewhat fair.
	Right.
	Exactly.
	The damage to the institutions by this lawfare, I don't think many people inside the institutions fully grasp.
	But the faith that has been lost.
	So if Trump wants to save this republic...
	He needs to stand up for the people who are prominent victims of the lawfare from across the spectrum.
	That's right.
	And Roger is the perfect person to fill that role.
	100%.
	So, freerogernow.org.
	Yes.
	Please go there.
	Please sign the open letter.
	We need to be able to present President Trump with as many signatures as possible.
	This is going to take less than 60 seconds of your time.
	Okay, so let's give our viewers action items that they can do to help support it.
	Okay, so number one, freerogernow.org.
	Sign the petition right here.
	Sign the petition.
	We don't ask for your name, rank, and serial number.
	We're asking for your name and your email address.
	That's it.
	You can do this within 15 seconds and hit done.
	Secondly, Well, here's RogerVere.com.
	Your Twitter handle, Tracy Thurman.
	It's Tracy A. Thurman.
	Yes.
	And that's Tracy without an E in it.
	Correct.
	There's no E. Got it.
	Okay.
	Tracy A. Thurman.
	Oh, you follow me.
	Look at that.
	I'm honored that you're following me.
	I should follow you.
	Here we go.
	Okay.
	Following.
	Got it.
	Okay.
	So...
	In addition to that, what else can people do?
	Obviously, people can share this interview.
	This interview will be posted on Rumble, as well as, of course, Brighteon.
	But did you know that X still kind of censors Brighteon links?
	And we have a lawsuit against...
	Well, we filed it...
	Because of what Jack Dorsey did, not what Elon Musk did.
	Hopefully Elon will reverse it.
	Hopefully Elon will solve the situation.
	But we're still partially banned by X. So for those of you watching, find this interview on Rumble, and then you can share the Rumble link easily on X. So share the Rumble link.
	We ask people to start sharing content like this on X.com.
	As often as you're willing to do so, because we need, between now and inauguration day, between now and the day one pardons, we need word on this to get out.
	We need people to spread this message.
	We need as many people as possible to become aware of it.
	We need as many signatures as possible, and we need it to get to President Trump's attention that this is not any, you know, the importance of this case, that this is one he needs to add to his list.
	Okay, and then I'll have my editors also do a story about our interview.
	Wonderful.
	And, you know, we'll spread the information that way.
	Because I wasn't following this story until, well, people that we know in common connected us.
	Yes.
	But that's how it works.
	It is about networking for the pro-liberty, pro-truth people.
	But what about Roger himself?
	Is he doing interviews?
	Is he talking?
	Or is he, like, under attorney silence right now?
	What's his situation?
	So...
	Anything you say can and will be used against you.
	Of course.
	So of course the advice that he's been given is to say nothing.
	I would imagine.
	For a man like him, that's very hard to do because he has a lot to say.
	Hopefully at some point soon he can break his silence.
	We all look forward to that day.
	Yeah.
	But it may well have to wait until after he's pardoned.
	So if you want to hear from Roger himself, which I promise you, you do want to hear from him.
	I'd love to hear from Roger, yeah.
	If we can get him a pardon, I'm sure he would return to this show.
	Sure.
	He has six months of things to say at this point that are bottled up.
	Well, and we've interviewed Aaron Day before.
	Aaron's a good man.
	Actually, I'm going to brand this interview on our show, which is Decentralize.TV. That's our show.
	It's called Decentralize.TV. It's all about teaching a decentralized lifestyle.
	Love it.
	Well, if you saw my bio on...
	On there.
	Basically, I'm an advocate for decentralized and permissionless systems in food, medicine, and finances.
	Well, no wonder we get along so well.
	We have the same philosophy.
	Exactly.
	I'm exactly the same way.
	Yeah, food production should be completely decentralized.
	Absolutely.
	And then you have resiliency, redundancy, you have choice, all that.
	Education should be decentralized.
	It should be decentralized down to the homeschooling level.
	Absolutely.
	And medicine, oh my God, do we even need to revisit the last five years, the evils of centralized medicine?
	Correct.
	And they were murdering people in the hospitals because it was hospital protocol given to them by the feds because they wanted people to die so they could pump up the numbers.
	There's the evil of centralization right there.
	It is.
	And if you care about those issues, people should know Roger's been funding many of the dissident voices in the medical freedom world.
	Wow.
	He's the reason the Brownstone Institute exists.
	And for those who don't know what Brownstone is, it's a libertarian think tank, but it's much more than that.
	Besides, I'm an author at the Brownstone Institute as well.
	Oh, you are?
	Okay.
	I do.
	I write there on primarily food policy and the Amish, which is...
	That's awesome.
	What I do in my life when I'm not fighting for...
	No, that's so cool.
	I was just talking about the Amish in my podcast yesterday.
	I said the Amish are not afraid of the AI robot takeover.
	Well, you would enjoy my...
	They know how to do things without technology.
	It's actually a good skill set.
	You'd enjoy my article on the Amish as a control group for technocracy or for techno-feudalism.
	I would enjoy that.
	So Brownstone exists because of Roger.
	Wow.
	And so Brownstone, more than just a think tank where articles are published, the most beautiful thing that Brownstone does is it provides fellowships that allow displaced academics and doctors to have a large enough stipend that they can live, that they can pay their bills, that they can continue speaking truth, they can continue to stand up.
	I love it.
	That's dear to my heart.
	It's amazing.
	There are many, many doctors, especially, that you and I both know, who are all fellows at the Brownstone Institute.
	And if you're a fellow at the Brownstone Institute, you are receiving enough of an income to survive So that you are not captive to the system that has betrayed you.
	So Aaron Day, Brett Weinstein, go look at the list of fellows at the Brownstone Institute and realize these are all voices you care about.
	Wow.
	Wow.
	Who would not be supported by the Brownstone Institute in the way they are except for Roger.
	And I'm not saying he's the only funder, but I'm saying he was the seed funder.
	He gave the mega donation that founded the Brunson Institute, and Jeffrey Tucker will happily tell you that.
	And then there are hundreds and hundreds of other small efforts that he has quietly funded.
	He's not one of these people who's motivated by attention, by credit.
	And so he's been quietly doing all of these things and not announcing it to the world.
	And if it wasn't for you, none of us would know this.
	Because he's so much in the background.
	Exactly.
	I don't think he was enthusiastic about these things coming out, but the world needs to know what he has done for them so that they can step up to save him now.
	Absolutely.
	We need to support pioneering thinkers like Roger, people who want to help build human civilization.
	Absolutely.
	I'm a builder.
	You're a builder.
	We want to empower others with knowledge.
	Actually, let me bring this up.
	You may not even know this, but this is relevant.
	If you go to our AI website, brighteon.ai, we have already released an early AI model, open source downloadable language model.
	But we're releasing a much more comprehensive one in 2025 that encapsulates all the natural health knowledge and raw milk and nutrition, alternative medicine, and it's a complete domain adaptation of a,
	I think we're doing a 32 billion parameter language model that will be the only AI language model in the world That answers chat questions and is generative in its content with our worldview.
	Wow, that's amazing.
	Yeah, and we're giving it away.
	That's incredible.
	That's what we're doing.
	That's so fantastic.
	It's in the line of like Roger.
	Yeah, these are the creative, decentralized, independent solutions that we need.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	Sayer G from Green Med Info, he gave us his entire library of content to use as training materials.
	Dr. Mercola gave us his entire library.
	We have all the natural news library.
	We have now collected the greatest selection of natural health and nutrition content that's ever been curated in the world.
	That's incredible.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Because this is the kind of stuff that gets me excited about.
	Like, I want to contribute to humanity.
	This is a Noah's Ark of knowledge about natural health and permaculture and regenerative agriculture and all of that.
	Stuff that you're into as well.
	Absolutely.
	So, I mean, you just never know.
	Like, if you let people have freedom, what they're going to come up with that can actually improve society.
	Exactly.
	All kinds of projects like this.
	Right.
	Right.
	But that's the kind of person that Roger is.
	A hundred percent.
	And, you know, there was this split in the crypto community back in 2017 between, you know, Bitcoin, Bitcoin cash.
	I remember that.
	And he took the side of Bitcoin cash.
	But people associate him as, you know, the Bitcoin cash guy.
	In reality, he didn't make Bitcoin cash.
	He just thought, as a man of principle, that Bitcoin cash allowed for more freedom and that it allowed.
	And his whole goal behind cryptocurrency wasn't, you know, number go up.
	It was for two people to be able to go out for coffee and pay in this and not be stuck in the dollar.
	Because for those of us who are being debanked, All of your friends and my friends who are being debanked know what matters is what you can use to pay for coffee or your groceries or your utility bills.
	If it costs you $30 to $50 a transaction, you can't use it as a freedom currency.
	And that's not to say there's no use case for Bitcoin.
	I don't mean that at all.
	I completely respect my Bitcoin maxi friends.
	Bitcoin is not a transactional currency today.
	It's become digital gold.
	It's become a store of value, which is actually very divergent from its original intent.
	Yes, it is.
	And that's what Roger was speaking about.
	And so it's not that he's an enemy of that.
	In fact, and I'm very pleased to see this, many Bitcoin maximalists have come out in his favor and said, look, we disagree with Roger on this, but it doesn't matter.
	This man should not be facing 109 years in prison.
	Absolutely.
	I think I would have agreed with him on that debate, by the way.
	And I was very critical of Bitcoin before the FTX crash because of the just kind of the blind hype of, you know, FOMO and everybody, you're going to miss out, mortgage everything and just buy Bitcoin.
	And that did not appeal to my intellect of the properties of cryptocurrency, the decentralization, the divisibility, the lack of counterfeit ability, the defense against confiscation.
	These are the things that appeal to me.
	Not just, is the price higher today?
	So, Bitcoin kind of got dumbed down at that time, but things have changed significantly since then.
	Correct.
	And he wrote a book called Hijacking Bitcoin, along with a guy called Steve Patterson.
	And The government decided to indict him right as that book was about to launch.
	No kidding.
	Right as that book was going live and right as he was launching the book tour.
	And what he goes into in that book is it's basically how in his estimation Bitcoin was hijacked.
	Yeah.
	How corporate interests and potentially U.S. intelligence interests intentionally derailed the opportunity to have permissionless You know, peer-to-peer cash in exchange of, you know, a digital asset that you can use in an investment.
	So I don't think that's a coincidence.
	Monero keeps getting delisted from exchanges because I prefer the privacy of Monero, you know?
	Well, one of you should really look at, too, is Zeno.
	I know Zeno.
	You do?
	We interviewed...
	You knew it through Aaron?
	The guy, the top guy of Zeno for our show.
	Oh, that's fantastic.
	We interviewed a lot of...
	I love it.
	Because I do think that we are undeniably heading toward a future where all of our assets will be digital.
	Right.
	And it needs to be non-centralized.
	Correct.
	And Zeno allows for non-centralized digitization of assets.
	Agreed.
	Yeah, right.
	So that's really critical because if we have hard assets in the physical world, it could be land, it could be gold, it could be grams of gold or whatever, or oil.
	How do you digitize that and create a transactional ecosystem?
	Without it being centralized.
	Without it being centralized.
	Because it's going to happen, but the plan is for it to be fully centralized.
	That's right.
	So I'm all on board with everything you're talking about here, and it's very clear that humanity is going to have to make a very important choice between centralized CBDCs versus decentralized freedom-oriented, which is really the Bitcoin fork of humanity.
	That's really well said.
	And that's why I think one of the main reasons they're going after him is he was one of the first people to have this vision of the control structure of CBDCs.
	Not the first one, but he was among the first ones to see it.
	And he has been one of the main ones promoting the best possible solution to it.
	You and I both know CBDCs are coming and they're coming very soon.
	One can argue in some senses they're here.
	And When they start taking out the people who have been building the best alternatives, we need to notice.
	Absolutely.
	And it's also pretty clear to me, I don't mean to get too distracted from the plight of Roger here because we really want to support him.
	And we want to spread awareness about this.
	But it's very clear to me.
	I mean, I've interviewed a lot of financial experts and I'm a high IQ individual.
	I've done the math on this.
	Trump's going to have to declare a default on the U.S. debt.
	When that day comes, they also have to have a scapegoat and a solution, right?
	So the scapegoat's going to be, well, Russia nuked us or whatever.
	And the solution is going to be, hey, guess what?
	All of you who lost money in the collapsing banking system, we have all your money.
	It's over here in this other place.
	It's in your CBDC wallet.
	All you have to do is, you know...
	Take a nasal swab or whatever, like scan your eyeballs, and then you can access your money.
	Except the negative interest rates, the completely permissioned transactions, the ability that we can turn it on and off, except all of that and you can have your money back that we stole.
	But the average American has no idea what any of that means.
	No, the average American at this point financially is picnicking on the train tracks.
	Yeah, that's true.
	And they are systematically taking out every person who is trying to wake them up.
	That's right.
	That's right.
	But Elon, they haven't taken out Elon.
	He's got a pro-crypto, pro-tech take on all of this.
	He narrowly escaped probably being imprisoned by Kamala.
	But what do you think Elon can do about this?
	Is Elon, because, you know, sometimes he does great things for freedom, other times not so much.
	It's like, what's your read on Elon and his role with Trump?
	Is he going to help us achieve human freedom, or is it just to enrich Elon's empire?
	You know what I mean?
	What's your take?
	Time will tell.
	Yeah.
	But Elon has the capacity to do tremendous good for humanity.
	Absolutely.
	And this is one of the cases where I think Elon could truly do that.
	If Elon decides to start speaking up for Roger and recognize that Roger is essentially a brother in arms, that Roger is a fellow victim of lawfare, that Roger is a fellow visionary who is being targeted, He could really move the needle.
	Elon can do an incredible good in many spaces.
	This is one where I'm really hopeful that Elon will pick up our cause.
	I think there's a good chance he will.
	I truly hope so.
	Yeah, I think there's a good chance he will.
	All right, so what we all have to do, folks, for those of you watching, is we have to raise awareness here for Roger Veer.
	So send out the tweets, share this video, sign the petition.
	And share the Rumble link for sure.
	The what link?
	The Rumble link.
	Yeah, the Rumble link for our video.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	And what else?
	They can visit his website.
	Yep.
	They can read his books, hijacking Bitcoin.
	And tell your friends, tell your family, tell the people around you about this story.
	That's, you know, mostly efforts like this to get pardons take six to ten years.
	We're trying to get it done in three months.
	We're attempting to do the impossible.
	But I believe the possible, I believe the impossible is possible if you just believe it.
	And so that's what I've chosen to do.
	That's why my entire life is on hold to try to get this done.
	And with the help of your listeners and everybody else out there, we can do it.
	But you also said that Rogers' attorneys are going to file a motion to dismiss.
	Yes.
	So that's another possibility.
	Yes.
	I mean, we're up against a justice system that no matter how compelling the evidence is, doesn't always rule on the evidence.
	Right.
	Of course.
	But there is always hope.
	When is that decision expected?
	Well, there's usually filing deadlines for the defendant, but judges, their deadlines are a little less strict.
	So that could extend far beyond January 20th?
	It could potentially, or they could rule on it before then.
	I see.
	Okay.
	I'm guessing that Trump might wait for that decision.
	It's possible.
	Right?
	He might just say, well, let's just wait and see if this gets dismissed, and then...
	It's possible.
	Yes, I mean, and it would be understandable.
	But what we really want him to do is add Roger to the day one list, along with the January Sixers, along with Ross Ulbricht, along with, we hope, Julian and Edward.
	We want him on that list.
	The military establishment.
	Is going to absolutely pressure Trump not to pardon Assange.
	And Snowden.
	And Snowden, right?
	Yep, absolutely.
	And that's exactly why they need to be pardoned.
	But I don't think Snowden's ever going to come back to the U.S. even if he's pardoned.
	Understandably so.
	Right, because risk of assassination would be very high.
	And Assange is already, isn't he back in Australia now?
	He is.
	He's back in Australia with his family.
	Right.
	Oh, thank God.
	What a...
	That's torture, what they put him through?
	It is.
	To live in an embassy for 14 years or whatever that was?
	And then live in Belmarsh Prison in solitary?
	No human being deserves this.
	Here's the thing, you know, the U.S. empire likes to lecture countries like China and say, well, we have the moral high ground.
	Say, well, we have honest elections.
	Ha ha.
	We have a court system that's fair.
	Are you kidding me?
	We don't organ harvest.
	Oh, yes, you do.
	Have you seen the FDA files with the abortion fetuses and everything?
	You know, all these claims that the U.S. tries to stake its moral righteousness on, they're all false.
	Actually, the U.S. has no moral grounds from which to lecture China or, frankly, Iran or Russia or anybody at this point.
	But we can restore some moral high ground.
	We can.
	And it's going to take pardons like this.
	Yes, it's going to take ending the lawfare and rolling back the lawfare.
	And this is an opportunity to do this.
	I mean, and for those who are thinking, like, 109 years, how do you reach 109 years for what I just described?
	Yeah, that's a question.
	90 years of it is for filing his taxes.
	90 years is for filing his taxes.
	So it's for mail fraud.
	And the mail fraud was putting his taxes into a mailbox.
	And why 90 years?
	Oh, that's interesting.
	Why were there three counts of it?
	There were three counts of it because in 2014 he mailed his taxes.
	Then they erroneously told him they did not receive them, even though they admit now they did.
	And so he dutifully refiled them and sent them again.
	So he's facing an additional 30 years for doing...
	He's facing another 30 years for their mistake.
	And then, of course, in the 2017 taxes, which is another ballgame, they're giving him a mail fraud charge for this.
	So 90 years of the 109 years is for mailing in his taxes.
	To Americans, if you don't understand what a dangerous precedent this is, wake up.
	Well, let me share.
	This is a true story.
	It just happened to us recently.
	The IRS sent us a refund.
	Oh, you overpaid.
	And on the same day, they sent us a demand for a much smaller amount that they said we owed, that we had underpaid.
	And of course, that demand comes with all kinds of threats, which is just like standard letters from the IRS. We can seize everything you ever owned.
	And we're like, why can't you deduct the smaller amount from the larger amount and send us a smaller refund check?
	Well, no, they can't even answer that question.
	So we have to cash the refund check.
	We take this U.S. Treasury check to the bank, cash it.
	Bank's like, we've got to put a hold on this.
	I'm like, you don't trust the Treasury?
	Like, no, we really don't trust the Treasury.
	So how long is the hold?
	Well, it's like, you know, whatever, 11 days or whatever.
	And so we've got to wait for the Treasury money to show up, and then we can write this smaller check back to the Treasury to avoid being persecuted.
	And then the IRS sends us, this is a totally separate thing, they send us another demand to say, you didn't pay this thing.
	Some quarterly tax.
	And our accountant said, but we did pay that.
	And then she talks to the IRS, actually able to reach them, and they said, oh yeah, turns out that our computers were down.
	So we didn't know that you had paid that, so we sent you a notice to pay it.
	And then after that, our computers started working again.
	So now we know you don't need to pay it.
	We're like, well, how do you cancel this shit out?
	Because now you're on the record like we got to pay you twice.
	And you can imagine somewhere in there they can find a felony.
	Oh, yeah.
	Right?
	Because you did or you didn't or you mailed it or you didn't mail it or you didn't reply or the decimal point is wrong.
	Like somewhere there's a felony in that if they want you.
	Exactly.
	And that's the thing.
	People have to understand it.
	If you care about freedom at some point, you're on the list.
	You may be way down the list.
	You may be down below Trump and Alex Jones and Elon Musk and Roger, but you're still on the list.
	And if you don't stand up for the people at the top of the list, they're going to get to you.
	Exactly right.
	And the system is impossible for any of us to navigate without attorneys and without accountants.
	They're attempting to use Roger's case to deny us the right to depend on those where we can face felony charges for listening to our attorneys and our accountants.
	That's insane.
	Totally insane.
	Because that's the legal defense in court.
	It is.
	I took counsel's advice.
	Exactly.
	I relied on counsel.
	And Roger followed his counsel's advice to a T.
	The indictment is a fraud in my books.
	That's my words.
	But the indictment is a fraud.
	And the motion to dismiss, I encourage people to read it when it comes out because it includes everything that the DOJ terror picked.
	When is that coming out?
	It was supposed to be filed this week.
	Cool.
	I believe it should be out later this week.
	So let me know so we can cover that.
	I absolutely will.
	Can his attorneys in Spain fight extradition?
	It's a really good question.
	Yes, but of course, and this won't surprise you, the U.S. government decided to lie to the Spanish courts, too.
	Yeah, right.
	They cherry-picked.
	They pretended they didn't have access to all these emails showing that Roger followed his attorney's advice perfectly, that Roger followed the law.
	Wow.
	And so they cherry-picked just the parts that they thought would make Roger look guilty.
	That's all they presented to the Spanish government.
	And so he's facing extradition based on a fraud.
	Wow.
	Based on a fraud by our government.
	And this is embarrassing as an American, is it not, Mike?
	It's insane.
	It's completely insane.
	And they venue shopped getting him out of Spain because just in the weeks beforehand, he'd been in five, six, seven different countries.
	They didn't try to take him from Japan.
	They didn't try to take him from the UAE. They didn't try to take him from Singapore or Korea.
	No, they waited until he was in Spain.
	Why did they wait until he was in Spain?
	Well, look at what Spain did to John McAfee, who's a friend of Roger's.
	Right.
	And there's others that Spain has indicted, but they counted on Spain not looking at the indictment carefully, just rolling over and doing their bidding.
	If they knew it was a strong indictment, they could have gotten him from Japan or Korea or UAE or any of the other places.
	If it was a strong indictment, that would stand up to scrutiny.
	But no, they waited for him to go to the one country that was least likely to stand up and just do what they said.
	Well, let me tell you this.
	They don't even need extradition.
	They will go in, the U.S. State Department will go in and kidnap you.
	And I know this firsthand because a man that I used to know who passed away, Greg Caton, when I lived in Ecuador, he lived in a different city in Ecuador, and he was selling a product called Cansema, which was an anti-cancer topical treatment which eliminated cancer tumors, and it was based on Amazonian rainforest herbs and zinc and things, and it really worked.
	I mean, it was backed by a lot of good science, actually, about being an anti-cancer treatment.
	Well, he was selling it from Ecuador and shipping it to the states.
	The FDA got ahold of the State Department to indict him.
	They put him on Interpol.
	Wanted for international drug-related crimes because the FDA said that's an unapproved drug.
	So now you're thinking, what, is he a heroin smuggler?
	No.
	No, he sells cancer treatment for your skin, you know?
	So the State Department put a bunch of U.S. Marshals on a plane.
	They flew to Guayaquil, which is on the west coast of Ecuador.
	They bribed the local police in the city where Caton lived.
	They kidnapped him in his own driveway.
	Wow.
	They handed him over to U.S. Marshals.
	They put him on a plane, totally illegally.
	This was all extrajudicial, right?
	They flew him to Houston.
	Boom.
	Put him in federal court.
	Send him to prison for two or three years.
	So they didn't even bother with extradition.
	Wow.
	And he didn't even use crypto.
	Wow.
	Unbelievable.
	I mean, and again, this is lawfare.
	This is pure and simply lawfare.
	This is just egregious overreach by our government.
	We all need to start standing up to it.
	Because if we don't, you know, go back to that quote from, I believe it was Martin Niemöller, but if we don't stand up when they come for these people, they're coming for the rest of us too.
	Yeah, it's true.
	All right, Tracy.
	Well, this is a very disturbing but enlightening testimony here that you've given us.
	Is there anything else you'd like to add before we wrap this up?
	Just a reminder to everybody, go to freerogernow.org.
	Here it is.
	Please sign the open letter there.
	Again, it should take about 60 seconds of your time maximum.
	Right here.
	We don't ask for your personal identifying information, just the email address.
	All right.
	And share that with your family and friends.
	If we don't get enough signatures, it's going to be very hard to save Roger.
	Oh, look, here's quotes from Mark Dice and Aaron Day and Jeffrey Tucker and others.
	Brett Weinstein.
	Brett Weinstein, yeah.
	And Rampage Jackson, the fighter.
	Oh, yeah, that is Rampage Jackson.
	That's awesome.
	Yeah.
	Wow.
	Just what an incredible story.
	And this is happening in real time.
	Yes.
	Yes, this is happening right now.
	Extradition could happen when Spain makes up their mind.
	He could be sitting in a U.S. prison awaiting the mercy of the president.
	Wow.
	Or spend the rest of his life there.
	Well, Trump pardoned Roger Stone.
	Maybe he'll pardon Roger Ver.
	We truly hope so.
	Trump has the opportunity to prevent the crucifixion of Bitcoin Jesus.
	Think about it.
	The crucifixion of Bitcoin Jesus.
	Wow.
	He should do it.
	Well, he should do it.
	There is no greater pardon power than preventing the crucifixion of Bitcoin Jesus.
	And actually, this would create so much goodwill for Trump among the entire crypto community.
	It would.
	It would create huge goodwill.
	And this is a community that Trump has been doing outreach to.
	So this is not a time for Pontius Pilate.
	I've seen a lot of libertarians criticizing Trump because Trump promised to put a libertarian in his cabinet, and libertarians are asking, well, when is that coming?
	And then some people say, well, RFK Jr. counts as a libertarian.
	And I'm like, eh, not exactly.
	He's a convert.
	He's a former Democrat that now has an L next to his name, but...
	He's not part of the libertarian ethos, you know what I mean?
	So we need a real libertarian.
	And Ron Paul's name has been tossed around, which is awesome.
	I'd love to see Ron Paul involved in Doge, maybe.
	Yeah, I mean, hey, maybe we can finally audit the Fed, you know, or just end it.
	That'd be amazing, yeah.
	Because we know how the scam works now.
	What Ron Paul was talking about in the 1990s that was really fringe then, now is everyday conversation.
	Now it's common knowledge.
	Yes.
	Trump could do a lot of goodwill with this one pardon on top of the other pardons.
	He absolutely could.
	Put his money where his mouth is.
	Don't be Pontius Pilate.
	Prevent the crucifixion of Bitcoin Jesus.
	It's just one more signature, man.
	It is.
	It's not going to cost him anything.
	I feel sorry for Trump's wrist on January 20th because he's going to be signing so many executive orders, so many pardons.
	It's going to be like getting the LGBT woke-ism out of the Pentagon.
	You've got to sign that.
	Let the pipelines be constructed again.
	He's going to be busy.
	He's going to be busy.
	And we need to not let up on him until he does it.
	So if it doesn't happen on day one...
	Stick it to him so that he does it on day two or three or four or five or six or 21. No, we're going to be vocal.
	We cannot let up on Trump and just go at the end of day one, ah, he didn't do it.
	That's too bad.
	No, we need to stick on him until it's finished.
	That's right.
	That's right.
	Trump can also...
	He can change the future.
	I mean, he can really change the course of this republic.
	Trump can make a huge difference, even though they're going to fight him every step of the way.
	But this time, he's not naive like he was in the first term.
	I think in the first term, he spent like three years thinking, sooner or later, they'll just do what I tell them to do.
	And it's like, nope.
	That's never going to happen.
	Right.
	That's not how the deep state works.
	You have to force them.
	Yep.
	Yeah.
	All right.
	Well, Tracy, it's been a pleasure getting to know you.
	This is the first time we've ever spoken, by the way.
	Yes, it is.
	So just understanding your philosophy and, you know, there is hope for humanity.
	Absolutely.
	The only time there is no hope is if we decide to give up.
	As long as people like you and me and the people listening here continue to fight, keep going.
	I like to tell people is if you're a fellow idealist and you're pushing rocks up hills, keep up that Sisyphean battle because you don't know which day you're finally going to make it to the top.
	Is it a Sisyphean battle?
	It is.
	It's the legend of Sisyphus.
	Sisyphus?
	It's Sisyphus who pushes the rock up the hill every single day and every night it rolls back down, but he pushes it back up the next day.
	A hero of stoicism.
	I see.
	And doing what we do is a Sisyphean battle.
	We often don't succeed, at least not on the first time.
	But the only way we fail is if we give up.
	Is if we decide, well, the rock rolled back down, guess it's over now.
	It's not.
	Keep pushing.
	Someday we're going to make it to the top.
	And this case is one I firmly believe we can make it to the top and we can make it to the top on January 21st.
	Right on.
	And occasionally we can strategically decide when to release that rock.
	Yeah.
	As long as it doesn't violate the non-aggression principle.
	The gravity well of Earth has some functions.
	This is true.
	Okay, all right.
	Great metaphors, a lot of fun, but very important topics here.
	So, Roger Veer, we're pulling for you, man, and I hope he watches this interview.
	Oh, he will.
	I'm sure he will.
	I'm not going to let this go either, so you keep in touch with me, please.
	We will hammer this all the way through to January 20th, whatever it takes, and he's welcome to come on my show.
	You're welcome back.
	Give us updates.
	We'll cover it editorially, the whole deal.
	I'll be happy to come back on.
	Mike, thank you so much for supporting this.
	Thank you.
	And it's been such a pleasure to meet you.
	Well, before you leave, we're going to load you up with a bunch of our Health Ranger store superfood products, by the way.
	I can't wait.
	Whatever you can take with you on.
	Did you fly here?
	I flew, but I can always ship things back.
	Okay, all right.
	So we're going to get you some great nutrition, some superfoods.
	Keep that awesome brain of yours, like, really nourished.
	You'll love it.
	Appreciate it.
	And that's our way to say thank you to you for coming.
	Thank you so much.
	All right.
	Thank you.
	Absolute pleasure.
	And thank all of you for watching.
	This is, of course, Mike Adams here, Decentralized TV and Brighteon.com.
	And I just want to thank you for all your support.
	And please join us in helping to free Roger Veer.
	And if we succeed in that, I think we'll invite him on the show.
	How about that?
	After his pardon.
	And that'll be an awesome celebration.
	So thank you all for watching.
	I'm Mike Adams.

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