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Aug. 11, 2024 - Health Ranger - Mike Adams
55:02
Goldback founder Jeremy Cordon discusses cash-like GOLD and how it can save...
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Alright, welcome folks.
We've seen a lot of volatility in the stock market lately and even crypto moving a lot.
Many losses and some recoveries and so on.
The dollar is losing value every single day because of all the money printing.
There's record debt of the United States government.
The federal government debt is $35 trillion and counting.
And one of the things that's been holding its own quite well, perhaps the only thing, is gold.
And a fascinating and increasingly popular format of gold is known as goldbacks.
And I'm joined today by the founder of the goldback company, Jeremy Corden.
Welcome, Jeremy, to the interview today.
People love your goldbacks.
I keep giving them out to people.
Everybody loves them all the time.
No exceptions.
They sure get people's attention.
Thanks for having me here.
Yeah, absolutely.
I wanted to have you on because, well, everything else seems to be cratering here and there across the markets, but not gold so much, and goldbacks themselves are holding their value.
Each goldback is now worth about $5, and that's up.
I mean, where was it a couple of years ago on goldbacks?
You know, when we started the goldback five years ago, goldbacks, I think they first sold retail for $2.
Wow.
So instead of losing value, as so many fiat currencies have done throughout history, the goldback, which is not a currency, but rather a form of gold, it keeps gaining value.
That's really remarkable.
You know, if you measure it in dollars, sure.
All right.
But you and I are kind of on the same page.
We don't really measure everything in dollars.
We measure in ounces of metals, right?
How do you explain it to people?
I guess.
I mean, I think a gold bag can buy about the same amount of stuff it could five years ago.
And, you know, the hope is that it can buy the same amount of stuff in five years from now, too.
Right.
And to achieve that, I mean, all that has to happen is that gold needs to hold its value.
I mean, essentially, we don't need a magical intervention in order to make that happen.
We just need gold to hold its value.
And, you know, for thousands of years, it tends to hold its value.
I think these kind of stock market scares, you know, I think they remind people of just how volatile and how fragile some of the wealth is in these asset bubbles.
You know, my wife and I, we have this house and we're looking at maybe selling it and we just think, man, you know, I mean, what's going to happen to the market in six months?
You know, I mean, I think there's a lot of fear right now.
That's true.
And you could go for dollars if everything is going down in price, but what guarantee do you have that the bank doesn't fail?
Well, that's the other thing.
See, what I love about goldbacks, or one of the things, is that it's self-custody.
So when you own them, you have them in your possession.
And one of the things that happened last Monday when this market crash took place is that people couldn't log into their online brokerage accounts.
Almost all the big accounts were down.
The big brokerage houses, E-Trade, Robinhood, almost all of them.
I wonder if that was intentional, to try to stop people from selling.
Yeah, if you can't panic sell when you're feeling panic because it's all closed, I can certainly see why there'd be an interest in closing off investors from being able to make decisions with their assets.
Yeah, absolutely.
But it just shows that your money in a brokerage account, it's not really yours or even in a bank, it's not really yours because you go to the bank and one day, oh, we're on a bank holiday or We're not going to give you your money.
Or banks ask a lot of questions.
Now, what are you going to do with it?
You know, that's very common.
Sure.
And, you know, I mean, I think we all remember Cyprus.
You know, they had the bank bail-ins.
You know, they didn't even give you your money back in the long run.
They gave you equity in the bank.
Well, who wouldn't want equity in a failing bank, Jeremy?
It's a pretty great deal.
I think they took 90% of money from certain depositors.
I think that was very devastating.
Imagine you just sold a house and you need to roll into another house.
And it happens right as a bank failure happens.
And, oh, you're rich.
You have over $250,000.
You've got to get stock in this failing bank now.
Yeah.
Yeah, what's enough to love about that?
Hey, we'll take your money.
We'll steal your money.
We'll give you back a piece of paper that says you own part of the bank that's almost broke, so broke we had to take your money.
I mean, that's crazy.
But hey, let's back up for a minute here, Jeremy.
Just for those who are new to this conversation about goldbacks, what are goldbacks?
And let me mention, we have an affiliate site.
Where I show all the lab test results that I've done through my lab, verifying the goldbacks and how much gold they actually contain.
You can see all the results there at verifiedgoldbacks.com.
But walk us through it just from the very beginning, Jeremy, just the basics.
What are goldbacks?
So a goldback is one one thousandth of an ounce of gold.
It's part of an interchangeable series that works just like cash.
So the 10 goldback has ten times the amount of gold as the one.
It costs ten times as much.
We've got thousands of business owners across the country that are taking goldbacks as payment for goods and services.
We're finding that about half of small business owners are willing to take payment in gold for goods and services.
Inflation's gotten the attention of business owners, so they're opening up to using gold.
So the gold back is a very cash-like form of gold.
It's also a form of gold that's never been counterfeited.
So a single gold back costs about $5, and people carry them in their wallets and they spend them and use them like cash. - Yes.
Okay.
But talk to us about the amount of gold that's in them and how that gold gets there, because this is not a trivial part of the equation.
No, not at all.
So the single gold back has one one-thousandth of an ounce of gold.
So we break down gold into a thousand different pieces.
We put them in there through a process called vacuum deposition.
Now, vacuum deposition, if you're not familiar, it's the process in which a sheet of metal will get blasted with a plasma ray and it becomes a plasma field and Metal can get deposited in tiny amounts in very precise ways.
This is the technology they use to put gold in sunglasses for Oakley sunglasses.
Or you'll see the Trump Tower.
It's got these golden windows.
It's the process that puts the gold in the golden windows.
So it's a very high-end, very high-tech process, and that's what we use to get the gold into the goldbacks.
So importantly, in fact, someone asked me this the other day.
I was handing this person some goldbacks, and they were looking and saying, wow, that design is really beautiful.
Like, am I seeing the gold?
Because when people look at a goldback, They're actually seeing the gold.
It's not just like golden colored ink in a polymer or anything like that, right?
No, they're actually seeing the gold.
In fact, they're probably seeing very close to all of the gold.
So especially looking at the back of a gold back, that entire golden color is created by the gold contained.
It's sandwiched between two layers of polymer to protect it.
Yes.
So, in other words, folks, when you're looking at a gold bag, you're seeing the gold.
And that polymer is very, very tough.
When I first got your gold bags, Jeremy, you may recall I was testing them because I'm a skeptic.
You know, I'm like, really?
Does this contain the amount of gold it claims?
And so I was testing them.
I was trying to figure out a way to dissolve the polymers in the lab.
And we tried everything.
We tried all kinds of different acids that we use for food sample digestion and soils digestion, which has little rocks in it and things.
We could not chemically assault the polymer.
So we ended up having to get a kiln and we had to melt it down and burn off the polymer to get the gold foil out.
And that's ultimately the way we did it.
But...
I gotta say, Jeremy, these are some tough little goldbacks.
I mean, they're tougher than dollars, like dollar bills, you know, physically.
Well, dollar bills aren't designed to circulate that long.
And, you know, one of the disadvantages we have of making goldbacks is a $100 bill costs...
Do you know what it costs to make a $100 bill?
I can only imagine 50 cents or something.
I don't know.
Very close.
It's 14 cents.
Oh, wow.
Wow.
14 cents to make a $100 bill.
And imagine the profit margin on a $100 bill.
I mean, printing those things.
I mean, that's a great business to be in.
We don't have that same privilege with the goldback.
The one gold back, I think to this day, is manufactured at a loss.
It's very expensive to split an ounce of gold into a thousand pieces.
It's not a high margin, high profit product.
It used to be that if you wanted to go that small, if you wanted to go that fractional with gold, you were looking at about a 600% premium over spot or a 400% premium over spot.
Wow.
Well, I mean, that was normal.
And that was normal for, you know, maybe even hundreds of years.
But, you know, we got the cost down to about double spot.
And we're super proud of it because, you know, nobody else can make it this cheap.
I mean, nobody else can do this much for this little.
And what that's done is it's created a product that...
It's a gold product, but the price movement of goldbacks behaves a little bit different from other forms of gold in a way that's actually very advantageous to the people that decide to own goldbacks.
Yeah, that's very interesting.
Talk about that, please, because as I understand it, your ability to create goldbacks, there's also built-in scarcity because you can only make so much.
And the number of goldbacks, or I should say that the amount of ounces of gold that are in goldbacks out there are very rare or scarce compared to just gold, you know, or gold coins or gold bullion, of course.
So tell us about sort of the supply of goldbacks and how that changes.
Yeah, no, absolutely.
There's about $100 million worth of goldbacks out there now.
And most of that was only created in the last few years.
Because like I said, they haven't been out for five years.
And $100 million, it's a lot of money, but in the macro scale of currencies and asset classes, it's not.
You know, I think we did a calculation once and figured that goldbacks might be a quarter of 1% of the gold market in the United States by gold volume or by cost.
You know, per unit though, I mean, there's so many goldbacks out there.
I'm at a show in Chicago today and we've got hundreds upon hundreds of dealers, coin dealers from all over the country here.
And I would say that per unit, half of the gold products in the room are goldbacks.
Wow.
So it's very much proliferated.
And, you know, it's kind of like one of those things.
Do you know who the largest tire manufacturer is in the entire world?
Michelin?
I don't know.
It's a good guess.
It's Lego.
What?
What?
Yeah.
Lego?
How's that work?
It's Lego.
Well, I mean, a Lego tire, I mean, it doesn't take as much rubber as a regular tire, right?
I don't know.
So who makes the most tires?
Well, maybe I'm not familiar with Lego tires.
Are these special tires?
I don't know.
Oh, no.
It's like Lego building blocks for kids.
Oh.
Oh, like, okay.
Lego's toys.
Okay.
Right.
Yeah, they produce more tires than any other company in the world.
You mean like tires for the Lego toys?
Yeah.
Oh, okay.
Well, but those are little tiny tires.
That's true.
That's true.
But, you know, I can make a single goldback.
It's a thousandth of an ounce.
And if you own an ounce worth of goldbacks, that's a thousand individual units of gold.
Right.
So it's not hard to have the most gold in the room in terms of individual units.
I see.
That's what I'm saying.
I'm trying to be fair.
Understood.
I don't want to mischaracterize just how many goldbacks are at this show.
There's a lot of goldbacks at the show, but it's...
Anyway.
I want to back up a little bit because we're talking about how the price of the gold back is determined and how it behaves a little bit different from other gold products.
Let me interject here because I've been watching as the markets are crashing all over the world in Japan and Europe and everything.
Even silver has taken a pretty big hit.
But gold itself, like spot gold, is holding pretty close to $2,400.
And gold backs are holding right at $5.
So I can't think of any other asset that has been this resilient in the face of plummeting assets worldwide.
Even crypto is plummeting.
Even real estate.
Even in Texas.
Texas real estate is collapsing right now.
Not to mention other states.
So sorry to interrupt, but...
Gold and goldbacks are really standing out right now.
No, they definitely are.
I think people are recognizing that and they're looking for safe places to put their money.
We can see the influx now.
You mentioned this.
Goldback is such a small market compared to the overall gold market.
When people get really nervous and they want to have gold in their hand and they imagine that they want to have some precious metals just in case or they want to maybe be able to spend their gold like cash, there's only so many goldbacks to go around.
During the last scare that we had, or maybe two scares ago during COVID, every goldback sold out.
Really, the market determines the price of the goldback.
We saw goldbacks selling for $40 and $50 because people, what they wanted them, and there just weren't any to be had.
Goldbacks, it has its own market dynamics on top of whatever's happening with gold.
Yes, and those market dynamics are a bit more favorable because it's nice to own the premium, rare, very useful version of the thing.
Yes, yes.
That's a very good place to be.
Because imagine you're one of millions of Americans that bought gold bars or gold coins because you're worried about the dollar failing.
And the dollar starts to fail and now you have gold bars and gold coins and what are you going to do with them?
So one of the questions I have, Jeremy, and I'd just like to ask you about your progress on this side.
But many people...
They want goldbacks because it's a store of value, of course.
And then some people want to know, what's it look like on the horizon for more and more places accepting goldbacks as a form of payment or barter?
I know you have thousands of merchants right now.
What are you doing to increase those merchants?
And are you getting more merchants willing to do this?
Yes.
So we are going to roll out with an app here in a couple of months that'll show you where you can spend gold in your local community.
And that's not just going to be true for the gold-backed states.
That's going to be true everywhere in the country.
And, you know, if you want to support that or get on board with that, you can actually sign up your business on goldback.com.
We've tried to make it a lot easier.
It takes about three to four minutes, and we'll send you a packet.
We'll get you goldback acceptance stickers.
We'll teach you how to handle goldbacks and, you know, kind of how it works.
We actually hired a specialist to help us process goldbacks.
All of these businesses that want to start taking payment in gold so we can advertise them for free and direct them traffic from people that want to spend their gold.
And that seems to be going really well so far.
Well, okay.
So this app sounds really great.
What's the rough timeline on that?
We're hoping to have it up and going in about two months.
Right now, it's like you can go on the website and you can look up lists of businesses that take goldbacks.
But on goldback.com, it's really only available in five states.
We're getting more and more businesses signing up all over the country.
In fact, we have more businesses outside of the states that have their own Goldback program.
I believe we have more businesses outside of those states than in them now.
Yes.
And we're looking for people to help.
We're always looking for more business owners that want to be part of this program.
Yeah, that was my next question.
What about the small businesses that want to know about goldbacks or how do they accept them?
How can they learn?
I mean, it's a simple thing.
I understand it's not complicated, but how do they sort of get involved?
You know, if you go on goldback.com, there's a dropdown, and you can go to sign up your business to accept goldbacks.
We'll send you a packet.
We'll send you goldback stickers.
I think we even send free goldbacks in those things if you sign up your business.
And then you'll appear on a pin map.
Which will appear on the app that's coming out.
Ah, okay.
See, I think this is going to be really critical as we have more of an economic collapse of the traditional banking system.
I can see a lot more local barter and trade, local markets, farmers markets, especially if we start to lose transactional or e-commerce capabilities.
What if Visa and MasterCard go down?
What if the power grid goes down?
People are going to need a lot of local options.
In order to engage in trade and also maintain a store of value, I think goldbacks would be really invaluable in that kind of scenario.
Do you hear that kind of feedback from some of the people acquiring them?
Yeah, some of the people have them just in case, but we have a lot of people that are using them today.
We have this calculator on goldback.com, and it helps you figure out how many goldbacks you owe somebody.
Right now, goldbacks are almost exactly $5 to goldback.
But when it's $4.73, it's a little harder to calculate.
So we have a calculator on the site to help people figure out how many goldbacks they owe on a transaction.
Do you care to guess how many times that was used in the last year?
Millions, I would suppose.
No, we only have $100 million worth of goldbacks out there.
Oh, true, yeah.
It was about $70,000.
Okay, well, I think it's going to increase.
I think so.
It's growing exponentially, but we're seeing transactions, and again, they're happening all over the country.
In fact, there's people that are using this calculator all over the world.
So we're seeing goldbacks really start to get out there and gain traction.
Yeah.
Well, and also, I mean, I have given out thousands of dollars of goldbacks myself.
I have this, I don't know what it is, I like giving things out to people in order to advocate for new forms of value.
Sometimes I have other donations that come to me of various things, and I distribute them, and I give to local churches sometimes, and I also am connected with a local emergency response group that's tied to a church that works in Central Texas, and I've given some to them.
They were new to them.
They're like, wow, we've never seen this before, but this is really cool.
But I'm handing a lot of them out, and I think a lot of other people are too.
In fact, it was Robert Scott Bell that gave me one.
That was the first time I'd ever seen one.
So this is probably happening a lot, I would imagine.
What are you hearing?
It's happening a lot.
I mentioned the 70,000 transactions on the calculator, but I'll tell you, the vast majority of the time that I spend goldbacks, I'm not using the calculator.
Oftentimes, I like to use them as tips.
If I'm taking an Uber or at a restaurant, they make fantastic gifts.
Just about anybody is excited to accept a goldback.
It's a great way to introduce people to the concept of sound money and to give them The other solutions that could help them against inflation.
Really, I see the whole Goldback project and the people that use it as a grassroots sound money movement.
Yes.
That's really what it is, and that's what we're seeing where you're not alone.
We've got hundreds, maybe thousands of people out there that are buying Goldbacks, and they're getting them out to...
Everybody they can in their community.
And that's making a huge difference because we're reaching people that were previously thought to be unreachable.
You start out with a goldback that you got as a tip and you don't really know what's going on in the country, but it gets you thinking.
It opens you up because the goldback tends to kind of suck people in a little bit.
Yeah, true.
And also, it's a great educational item.
So one of the people that was working for us over the summer is a college student, and he's going back to college.
I gave him 50 goldbacks, just a stack of 50, to say, hey, when you go back to college, hand these out to your roommates and college buddies and classmates and teach them about honest money so they see what real money looks like.
And again, who doesn't like gold?
Everybody loves gold.
They're like, yes!
And they'll hand it out.
So there is this kind of grassroots educational surge taking place so that when the day comes that, let's say, if the dollar does collapse or the banking system craters or whatever, that I hope that there are millions of people who have already seen goldbacks and it's not the first time they see them.
No, you're 100% right.
What's so fascinating is that we're already there.
There's already been millions of people that have seen the goldbacks.
There's goldback ATMs now that are getting more widely distributed.
That company did a research project on Utah.
This is the state of Utah and found that 30% of people in Utah had already heard or seen a goldback.
No kidding.
That's a million people just in the state of Utah.
So are those vending machines in Utah?
Yes.
Yeah, there are goldback ATM machines in Utah.
Florida is another state that's getting goldback ATM machines.
And only 3% of people in Florida have heard of the goldback.
But that's still, I want to say it's about 600,000 people.
You know, so just in the state of Florida that have already heard of Goldback.
So, you know, the word is getting out.
I was in Puerto Rico with my wife, and I mentioned that I love giving these things out as tips.
We're at a restaurant, and I gave the server a Goldback, and I'll ask him, you know, just, hey, have you ever seen one of these before?
And she told me, yes.
And this was in Puerto Rico.
I said, well, how did you hear of this?
She says, well, I think, you know, this looks like, you know, one of the pieces of gold they distribute out of those ATM machines.
And she saw something online that went viral about it.
I was like, holy cow, you know?
So we're already at the point where millions of people have seen gold backs.
We're quickly going to head to the place where it's tens of millions of people that have seen gold backs.
And we want to grow from there because it's a global market.
Well, yeah, I'm kind of wondering about the ATMs that you're talking about.
Is there a plan to keep expanding to other states?
Absolutely.
We have two more states that we're going to roll out next year, including one state that's a bit bigger.
We haven't formally announced it yet.
And then we're talking about doing a limited edition series for a state that wouldn't necessarily be feasible for a gold-backed currency right now.
But we mostly just think it would be cool.
So we could end up having...
Because people want all 50 states, right?
They want us to do a goldback in all 50 states.
I think these limited edition graded series could get us to all 50 states a lot faster, where we're looking at doing it in the next six to eight years as opposed to the next 25, 30 years.
Yeah.
Okay.
Well, yeah, that's too far out there given how rapidly things are collapsing in the financial ecosystems right now.
No, for sure.
But people use goldbacks in any state, right?
People that live in Texas or in Florida, they're buying the goldbacks that are available now and they're transacting with them now because really the value proposition isn't any different.
Yeah, exactly.
And of course, me being a Texan, I vote for Texas or a limited edition that's got a Texas designation, I think would be incredibly popular.
And one of the things that I would love to do with that is to buy a set, like a framed set, right, of all the bills, like a Texas edition.
And that would be the most amazing gift that I could give to some key people that I know in Texas.
Some of them are people who have everything.
Like, very, very wealthy people, where it's not the dollar value that matters to them, but something historic.
That would be something historic.
Yeah.
No, that makes sense to me.
So, that's my vote.
I hope you do that, and keep us posted.
Whatever states you're going to roll out, just keep us posted.
Now, let me ask you one thing.
One drawback of the goldbacks that people have mentioned is...
You don't want to fold them and put them in a wallet like you would fold a dollar, let's say, because it creases the polymer.
And I tell people, no, you don't want to fold them.
Keep them flat.
But there's all kinds of different wallets you can have that can keep goldbacks without folding them.
What do you say to people who say, well, what about folding them?
You know, one of the first products that we made was a wallet that didn't fold the goldbacks.
just because it will wear out your gold back eventually if you have a billfold wallet and you stick a single gold back in there so you can show people and showcase it and carry it around i i don't think it's the end of the world if you fold one of your gold back it's certainly not how you want to treat all of them right um because again i don't i don't have the privilege of making a gold back for 14 cents no it's So we can't just replace them, you know, lookity split whenever they wear out.
It requires a greater amount of responsibility for the users and keeping the goldbacks in good condition.
Well, right.
Yeah, that's perfect.
But I will confirm that if you burn a goldback, because this is what we did to test them, ultimately, if you burn up a goldback, What it will leave behind is a piece of gold foil.
Very thin, but measurable as we did.
And then if you melt that gold foil at a higher temperature...
Then it becomes a little gold ball or a BB, let's say.
And then, you know, we've tested that.
We've weighed it.
And we've found that there's over 100% recovery on your gold backs.
So I just want to encourage people, go to our website.
It's our affiliate site.
We do earn something on the gold back sales, but it's called verifiedgoldbacks.com.
We share all the research results and laboratory results, including the gold purity tests and Which show it to be better than 24 karat gold.
But Jeremy, could you please explain why are we seeing 104% recovery or 105% in some cases, 102% in other cases?
We've never seen less than 102% recovery.
Because we knew that some guy like you was going to come along someday and really put the screws to us on how much gold was in a gold back.
And we didn't want a single goldback ever produced to ever be below 100% of what it said on it.
And the way to avoid that is to put a little bit of extra gold into the goldback.
Okay.
That's why.
And really it comes down to integrity.
And that's true for any currency product or really any financial product.
People have to be able to trust it.
And for people to be able to trust it, you have to be trustworthy.
Okay.
And if you're going to be trustworthy, you have to, you know, you have to do the work.
Well, right.
And I would imagine that this vacuum deposition technology, like any technology, it has, you know, there's a margin of plus or minus.
It might be a very tight margin.
But when you're dealing with physics, there's got to be a margin, right?
There's definitely a margin.
It could be up or down 1% or 2%.
It depends on the tech and how long they've been trained and how they cast the target.
There's variables in there, which is why you want to aim to be a little high.
Okay.
All right.
Have you ever had to halt...
Like a certain lot or something because it didn't have enough gold?
It did happen.
It happened only once.
And it wasn't like an entire lot.
It was a portion of the lot.
And our manufacturer contacted us and they gave us the serial numbers of some fives that they suspected could be underweight.
And they just took them all back.
Wow.
So, you know, they're very serious about it.
It's incredibly important.
Because, you know, if there's a single goldback that is ever underweight, the whole project is over.
You know, you can't even have one that's underweight.
So you want to, we're extremely strict about policing that and making sure that, you know, it's done right.
Okay, so then let me ask you about counterfeiting.
Because, as you know, we've seen fake gold bars coming out of places like China where they'll drill into the side of the gold bar and they'll fill it with tungsten and then they'll melt gold back over the hole.
And if you don't look at it closely, if you don't test it all the way through, it could pass for gold, right?
And some of it's pretty sophisticated.
But what about counterfeiting goldbacks?
It seems like that would be very difficult.
You know, it's not just gold bars anymore.
It used to be gold bars filled with tungsten.
Now you can go on Alibaba and buy fake junk silver.
Oh, really?
Yeah, you can buy fake mercury dimes.
And they don't say copy on them anywhere.
It's just fake mercury dimes.
They cost less than a dime.
And, you know, it's really disheartening because, you know, before goldbacks, junk silver was my go-to for barter.
And if you can't trust it, and the fakes look just like the real ones...
Unless you have an $800 machine in your hand everywhere you go, you just don't know what's real and what's not.
The Goldback, you're looking at many millions of dollars worth of equipment and decades of trade secrets and processes to get a Goldback looking the way it does.
And we are actually adding more security features as we go forward just to have the highest possible bar.
Next year, Goldbacks are going to have...
What's it called?
It's Blacklight Ink.
What, UV ink?
Yeah, the UV ink on the back.
Yeah.
So we'll be selling blacklights.
And that's another security feature that's getting rolled out in 2025.
In 2026, we have several additional security features being added into goldbacks.
But up until now, there's never been a fake goldback.
Our goal is to, you know, continually stay, you know, 10 to 15 years ahead of any counterfeiting efforts.
Yeah, that seems very wise.
I've got perhaps an off-the-wall question for you, but maybe some of our listeners represent companies or organizations or nonprofits or even political candidates.
Who knows?
Is there an opportunity for them to do like a custom run of sort of novelty-branded goldbacks or something like that?
They wouldn't be called a goldback, but we could do a custom gold note project for them.
We've entertained that and looked into that for other companies.
It's just not cheap.
If you're going to do something like that, you're probably looking at about a $50,000 to $60,000 minimum to get something out there.
Right, because you have to create the whole template, the art.
I don't know what's involved, but it seems like there's a lot of startup costs.
Well, there's a lot of startup costs and then there's minimum runs.
Right.
So that's where it gets a little expensive.
But yeah, if you want 3,000 units of something, it could be done.
The manufacturing capacity is there if you're looking for something like that.
But it's not necessarily the best fit for most people.
Okay.
All right.
Fair enough.
What about the question of other metals?
Even if it's a...
A novelty project?
Or suppose a country came to you, some other country out there, that said, hey, we want to have platinum backs, or whatever they call them, as our metals-backed currency.
Could your technology conceivably work with silver or platinum or palladium even, or other metals?
Well, we've done silver backs, at least as a novelty.
And there's some interest in doing the silver backs as like...
Maybe like a bigger novelty, maybe it's like a silver certificate or something like that.
Platinum is a little less, it's a little more unwieldy, but it can be done.
You can do vacuum deposition with lots of metal types.
You can do it with aluminum and titanium, so it's not out of the question now.
So for silver, though, you couldn't do just one one-thousandth of an ounce of silver.
It wouldn't be worth enough to justify it, right?
Not on its own.
If we were to do silver, it would be very different from the goldback in the sense that, you know, and we're still, you know, we could still be a year away from, you know, doing something like this, but...
If we were to do silver, we'd probably do it as a silver certificate where you could redeem it and get silver in a vault somewhere, which it's a very different value proposition.
The same people that are buying goldbacks might not even like silverbacks because they want the value in their hand, not in a vault somewhere else.
Well, I'm that way.
I'm not so much interested in something that I can trade for silver that's in a vault somewhere.
I do want the self-custody.
Right, exactly.
So it's a very different value proposition, whereas there's other people that absolutely want something where the value doesn't have to be in their hand.
And it's, you know, how do you service both of those markets?
And then how do you message that in a way that, you know, makes sense to people?
And, you know, I don't even know if we're going to move forward with that project or not, but there's...
We certainly get more requests for doing a silverback-like currency project than...
Probably any other requests that we get from users.
Well, that's really interesting.
Well, please keep me posted about that because, of course, I'd like to cover that.
One last question for you.
What about the just sort of regulatory compliance or the views of the U.S. Treasury on goldbacks or this form of gold?
What's your philosophy and approach on that?
You know, like I said, there's about $100 million worth of these things out there.
I think it's so small that it hasn't really gathered a whole lot of attention from...
You know, the bureaucracy, right, that runs this country.
I think they're looking at the crypto markets right now as maybe a bigger threat in that sense than something like the Goldback, which is really fascinating.
I think if we did Goldback 20 years ago, assuming the technology were to exist back then, I think that the reaction that we would have gotten from the state would have been extremely different and a lot less friendly and a lot more hostile.
But with crypto out there, the cat's already kind of out of the bag.
And chasing around a $100 million gold cash-like product probably just isn't worth it to them.
It's just two small potatoes.
Well, okay, but...
That could change with the success of the Goldback, right?
It could.
It could.
It could change in a few years.
I mean, if we hit a few billion dollars in Goldbacks, we might, you know, and we haven't gotten zero attention.
It's very important that everything that we did with the Goldback, we did it legal.
We built the legal structure for the Goldback before it ever became a product.
And Goldbacks are legal to use and spend Well, that's interesting.
Okay.
But then at the same time, there's no risk that somebody would...
Mistake a goldback for a dollar bill, for example.
They're not even the same color or same material.
You don't call goldbacks dollars.
It doesn't say it's backed by the full faith and debt of the United States government.
There's no effort to try to blur those lines.
No one's going to get a goldback confused with the Federal Reserve.
And that was very intentional, and you wouldn't want to.
You wouldn't want to hawk a goldback off as a dollar to the dumbest person you could find, because it's worth five bucks.
Yeah, that's crazy.
Yeah, no, exactly.
So there is that.
Something that's interesting, though, and maybe your users would appreciate this, or your viewers would appreciate this, is...
If you look at the bottom of the goldback, it says it's exchangeable by goldback ink in U.S. gold coin to bearer on demand.
And what that's for is if you have a thousand goldbacks, that's an ounce of gold, you could actually exchange that for a one ounce U.S. minted gold coin that has been stamped with a $50 face value.
Huh.
So there is a tie-in to an official federal legal tender with the gold back.
And it's the same law that works for coupons and gift cards.
It's just tied in with an existing currency project.
But nobody would actually want to do that because the gold backs themselves would be worth more than the one else.
And a few people have taken us up on it to try it out.
But if you have a Chipotle gift card and it says it has a cash value of a penny, you wouldn't actually go and redeem it for a penny if you're not.
It just hooks into the same state law called the Uniform Commercial Code.
So again, it has to do with the underlying legal structure of a goldback.
Well, I remember years ago when I saw coupons, I thought they said that each coupon had a cash value of 1 20th of a cent.
Sounds about right.
Yeah, same law.
I wonder if that's what the dollar is going to be worth someday or soon.
Yeah, who knows?
I try not to own too many dollars because it seems like a shaky product.
Yeah, well, obviously, if it wasn't backed by the U.S. government, it would be worthless.
And even backed by the U.S. government, it is rapidly losing value.
I don't know how much the U.S. government backs the dollar.
I think the people that back the dollar is everyone that uses it.
Because so long as you or I or anyone else we know is willing to accept dollars, we're backing them.
We're backing them with our businesses and our labor.
And, you know, the gold back gives people a chance to not do that.
Good point.
If you had an opportunity to not use a central bank product because you don't want to support the central bank by using the central bank products, you could use gold backs instead.
Well, that's what I want to see because I believe in peaceful, nonviolent grassroots revolutions, right?
Which is just how do we change things for the better without causing any sort of chaos or violence or anything of that kind?
And what you just mentioned is very powerful.
I would love to be able to go to the grocery store and shop for groceries and pay in goldbacks.
That would be ideal.
It's happening sooner than you think.
We've already got grocery stores that are signing on.
I mean, it's...
But it's just a start, and we're still early in this process.
But people are waking up.
All right.
Well, let us know how we can help, because I'd like to help spread the word in Texas and introduce goldbacks to other merchants.
And with all the goldbacks I'm giving out, there's a lot of people seeing them, and I bet there's going to be a lot more openness to accepting them.
Yeah, there's a lot of ways to get involved.
You can try spending goldbacks in your local community at farmer's markets, garage sales, tips and gifts, and explaining it to people.
I'd recommend carrying goldbacks around.
We've got goldback wallets.
If you have a business, you can sign up your business on goldback.com.
If you have a local coin dealer that you love, they can sign up to be a dealer for goldbacks.
So, I mean, there's lots of different ways to get involved with the Goldback Project.
And, you know, all the involvement really helps because, again, this project wouldn't be anywhere if it wasn't for the tens of thousands of people that are rolling up their sleeves and being the change they want to see in their communities.
Yeah, really great point there.
And I forgot to add this one thing.
Remember with the CrowdStrike IT outage that happened a couple weeks ago, grocery stores were forced to just go back to cash, many of them.
Their IT systems were completely down.
And I'm just thinking, wouldn't that be the perfect time for grocery stores to take goldbacks?
You don't need e-commerce to work, or you don't need data systems and servers to That's the beautiful thing about Goldbacks is they're no-tech to use.
I mean, it's a lot of technology to make them, but you don't need any technology to use them.
Yeah.
No, it's a low-tech, no-tech product.
Once you have it in your hand, you know, it's a lot like cash.
And people love that.
It brings the power back to the people where you have the privacy and your transactions aren't on some spreadsheet which is shareable and trackable and they can advertise at you.
It's cash without the inflation.
And it's very empowering.
And it's supposed to be empowering because I think having a good money system is a good sound money system is a cornerstone of freedom.
Yes.
And might even be the bedrock of Western civilization itself because we didn't even have money until 600 BC.
And that was the Greeks and they made the first democracy.
And I think everything has been built or so much has been built on the top of the ability of people to trade freely with each other.
Good point.
And save.
And I'll add one last thing, which is that the utility of the goldbacks is really high.
And, you know, before I learned about goldbacks, I would buy silver, mostly, but some gold.
And, you know, you have a gold coin.
And right now, that gold coin might be worth, you know...
$3,000 or $2,800 or whatever.
But you can't really just shave off one one-thousandth of the coin, you know?
You can't really use it that easily in a cash-like transaction.
Silver is great for that, but what if you wanted gold divided into thousands of an ounce?
And that's what goldbacks accomplish very expertly, by the way.
So, you know, great job, Jeremy.
Everybody loves your product.
Well, thank you.
I appreciate that.
And I appreciate you having me today.
It's always a pleasure to talk to you.
Well, I appreciate you taking the time.
This was unplanned, but just because of the events this week with the stock market chaos and the so-called carry trade, folks, we've only just seen the beginning of the unwinding that's going to happen in the markets.
So I tell people, even though, as a disclaimer, this is not investment advice, do your own research, get your own expert opinions and expert advisors and whatever, I And there's upside and downside risk in every instrument, including dollars, by the way.
But I tell people, when it hits the fan, don't you want to be sitting on something that holds value instead of something that just bleeds value?
I mean, that's the bottom line.
And the answer is evident.
No, you're good.
I think we're good.
Okay.
So Jeremy, thank you for joining me today.
Really appreciate you.
Let me just remind people the website where they can acquire Goldbacks, and this is an affiliate site.
We do earn a percentage, a small percentage of the sale if you choose to purchase these, but that helps support us.
Go to verifiedgoldbacks.com.
Check out all our lab results there.
If it's a good fit for you, purchase some, hand them out, give them as gifts, use them.
I mean, frame them, whatever you want to do.
They're really incredible.
Verifiedgoldbacks.com.
And thank you so much, Jeremy, for joining us today.
Okay.
Take care.
All right.
Take care, Dan.
Also, have you seen these?
These are goldbacks, and we've got different denominations to show you there.
They come in 50, 25, 10, 5, and 1s.
That's a stack of 1s.
This is 1 1,000th of a troy ounce of gold.
And it's embedded in the polymer layers in the gold backs, and you can get them, again, at those different denominations, so it's good divisibility of gold.
And since the gold is in the gold back itself, it's not some fiat currency.
It's actually a piece of gold that you can use for gifts or barter or trade, even in a local community.
If the grid goes down, a lot of people might be using gold and silver or goldbacks.
Now, if you go to our website, verifiedgoldbacks.com, that's our affiliate site, we do earn a little bit off your purchase there.
But what we've done is we've done the laboratory testing.
And on that site, you'll see my lab test results, how we tested them using a kiln, using ICP-MS mass spec instrument, using an acid stone test here as well.
We verified the purity and the masses of the gold that are embedded in these different bills.
And in fact, I've got here in these vials in my hands right here, this is actually one of the pellets of gold.
I melted it down into like a BB shape.
I don't know if you can see it, but I've got gold in these three vials right here.
Yeah, there you can kind of see it moving around there.
You can hear them.
And we did the tests on these, and this is the gold that came out of these goldbacks.
So we were able to confirm the gold is real.
It's 24 karat plus, and it actually exceeds the mass that's required.
Our recovery ranged from 102% to about 100 and, what was it, typically 105%.
I've got the results here.
Check this out.
Look at these photos.
I did all this myself.
So if you melt them down, you get this, and then you keep melting, you get it into like a pellet, and then you use an analytical balance in the laboratory, and you do the math.
It's pretty amazing.
At first you get this gold foil, which is pretty cool, and then you can melt the foil into this BB pellet-looking thing.
Anyway, here's the recoveries we got.
From a low of 102.89%, or 101.96%, that's the lowest, to 107% recovery.
And the bottom line is, if you want real gold in your hands that's divisible, that is also incredibly beautiful, that people instantly love, they recognize this, they see, wow, that's gold, and they're actually looking at gold.
This isn't paint.
this is the gold just kind of made really thin and put into this format and then sandwiched between polymers.
Goldbacks are your answer.
So check out verified goldbacks.com and there you can purchase goldbacks and you can help support this platform at the same time because we earn a small percentage.
And this is a really good form of off grid money.
And you might have gold coins or silver coins and you might have gold coins or And I strongly encourage gold and silver coins, but a gold coin is a pretty big piece of value to try to trade with, you know?
You're at a farmer's market, like, I want a loaf of bread.
What do you have?
I have a one-ounce gold coin.
Well, that's worth $2,200.
Gold's skyrocketing.
So, what are you going to do?
Like, buy a loaf of bread and then give me change for the one ounce of gold?
No.
But if you're trying to buy that loaf of bread with a goldback, you say, hey, how would you like one one-thousandth of an ounce of gold for that loaf of bread in this format, goldbacks, which actually has a premium over just the raw price of gold because it's better than just one one-thousandth of an ounce of gold.
I mean, it's in a format that's...
It's beautiful to look at.
It's durable.
You can carry it.
It fits in a wallet or a pocket or a purse.
A lot of merchants will say, absolutely, I'll take that gold.
And now you can buy a loaf of bread or you can buy a bag of potatoes or whatever, depending on what the economy looks like after the debt collapse.
I don't know what it's going to look like exactly, but I know I want gold and silver, and I want to have lots of different options of money that works off-grid.
So, yeah, our grid's not reliable.
Our monetary system is not reliable.
The currency's not reliable.
But you know what you can count on?
Physical gold and silver in your hands.
That's what you can count on.
It doesn't need a password.
You don't need to log in.
It doesn't need the bank's permission to have value.
It doesn't need the backing of a government.
You don't have to have faith in the treasury to confiscate money from people.
This has value all by itself, and gold has had value for centuries.
I mean, come on, millennia, what am I saying?
And it will continue to have value long after the collapse of the dollar and probably the collapse of Western civilization itself.
So there you go.
That's why the wealthy are buying gold like crazy.
That's why gold is spiking.
So be sure to check these out again, verifiedgoldbacks.com.
And thank you for your support.
Get ready because we're headed into interesting times.
Be safe.
Take care.
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