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Feb. 18, 2025 - Louder Than Crowder

01:53:42

EPISODE 55: PRECARIOUS DEPOSITION PT. II (AUGUST 26TH, 2024)

We return this week to tackle the back half of Steven's deposition by hero lawyer Mark Bankston, who addresses the source of the wrong imagine, the idea of non-white white supremacists, and "clearly hispanic faces". Like what we're doing? Want MORE for FREE? Join the Shrug Club at http://patreon.com/shrugclub Email: louderthancrowder@gmail.com Twitter/X: @thancrowder Music by DJ Danarchy

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Time	Text
	This is an AudioWool original.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, okay.
	Welcome to Louder Than Crowder, a podcast about the podcast Louder with Crowder.
	My name's Byron, and I'm joined tonight in studio by Dennis.
	Slamming some dew.
	What?
	I'm not slamming some dew.
	And in occupied Texas, it's Jared.
	Slamming some squirt zero.
	Okay.
	Both of whom are ill and injured, obviously not doing well.
	I'm really sick, folks.
	You're just trying to be like Steven.
	Regular Steven.
	Yeah, I'm beating him to it.
	We're one minute in.
	I beat him this time.
	Nice, dude.
	Let's see if I can do this.
	Damn, Steven.
	Back at it again with the white nationalist interference.
	Last week, Mark Bankston established a bit of a foundation regarding Stephen's lack of journalistic background, lack of structure inside the company that he can't be fired from, the belief that you have to be white to be a white supremacist.
	It's safe to say that aside from knowing when to give short answers and expressing things are not to your knowledge, he's rather dim.
	Yeah, the energy is a little off.
	And as we continue today, Mark's question...
	It's become a bit more pointed, and it becomes harder for Stephen to keep his mouth shut.
	It's also kind of harder to understand what exactly he's saying.
	So, kind of a bad day for you to be post-MRI and Jared to be in a fever stage.
	Are you sure?
	Oh, yeah.
	It's my knee.
	I think the magnets rattle you a bit, though.
	You feel weird inside afterwards.
	Yeah, it's fine.
	I think I'm just going to...
	So, Jared, I might have a torn meniscus, but I'm going to put the men in torn meniscus.
	Excuse me?
	That's right.
	I don't know what that means.
	That means that he's gonna fucking turn up for dudes, man.
	He's gonna show dudes how knees work, and like, if your knees don't do this shit, then you are without them.
	Like, you've got bird legs, probably, my friends.
	It's gonna cost me an arm and a leg, so I'll just sell the bad one.
	Jesus, you guys are creative today.
	You get a cool fake one.
	I'm delusional.
	I'm just normal.
	My knee is not affecting my mental health.
	I'm just a nightmare all the time.
	I'm burning up!
	Jared, he's got half a hoodie on for some reason right now?
	Yeah, I got my shoulders exposed like I'm about to go out on a Friday night.
	I'm dressed like Drew Barrymore in 100 Cigarettes.
	Is that what that movie is called?
	Never saw it.
	You got the shoulders off, dude.
	You've turned it into a shawl.
	Really excited to get into part two of The Deposition.
	Great response to part one.
	Thanks so much.
	I feel like we got some new listeners.
	So hi to all the folks who tuned in last week.
	Yeah, hi you guys.
	It's going to be worse this week.
	What do we call people who listen to our shows?
	Hello, Shrub Nation.
	Nice.
	There we go.
	Yeah, and before we get into it too deep, I would like to take a quick second and a big shout out to Shrug Nation.
	I love Shrug Nation.
	Yeah, the folks who believe in us.
	And are showing us support at shrug.club.
	You said shrug.com, right?
	Okay.
	Possibly three times.
	Have we been to shrug.com?
	What is it?
	It links you to a band camp for a band called Shrug.
	Oh, that's sick.
	We need to hire Shrug for sure.
	But shrug.club is a place where folks can go listen to all the bonus content.
	Well, it's limited.
	I was going to say their hearts.
	I post private screenshots of my conversations.
	You shouldn't do that.
	I don't even know how you have access to it, if I'm being honest.
	Yeah, Shrug.club.
	I'd like to take a second and thank the folks who are financially supporting this little project of ours.
	My wife?
	I don't think so.
	Dude, I have no money.
	What?
	I'm just kidding.
	What does that mean?
	Just kidding.
	She doesn't support this financially.
	Of course.
	Or emotionally.
	She doesn't care about anything I do.
	Big thanks to Purple People Eater.
	Nice!
	Thanks, Seth.
	Thank you.
	Purple people eater, I just want to give you my sincerest regards.
	Thank you so, ever so kindly.
	What a piece of shit.
	Oh, okay.
	Also, Dr. Sayre.
	Oh, nice, Dr. Sayre.
	That's the guy who gave me, you piece of shit.
	Is that the guy from Planet of the Apes?
	Dr. Sayre, Dr. Sayre, maybe.
	Could have been.
	Is that it?
	I actually meant to say Martha Plimpton or Kate Hudson.
	And the movie is 200 cigarettes, I guess.
	Okay, correction for the not Drew Barrymore movie.
	Great.
	And finally, Sarah W., thank you so much for supporting us.
	Sarah, I appreciate you so much.
	Thank you, Sarah.
	Piece of shit.
	If you want to be a piece of shit, go to shrug.com.
	Big old pieces of shit.
	A person of shrug.
	You could look like...
	Paul Rudd and 200 cigarettes and be a part of that whole piece of shit.
	Great.
	So as I teased last week, we're going to start today with a line of questioning surrounding the root of this inaccurate image of the shooter, the wrong Mauricio Garcia, published on Today News Africa by White House accredited reporter Simon Atiba.
	Now, as you said in the video, you acquired the photo from something called Today News Africa, right?
	I believe so.
	Okay.
	Where did Today News Africa source the photo from?
	Objection form.
	I don't remember at this moment in time.
	Did they say in their reporting?
	I don't remember at this moment.
	It'd be important to learn that information, right?
	It's their reporting.
	It's important to report accurately on this person's reporting.
	Right.
	So if Today News Africa...
	At a primary source, that would be useful information to know.
	That would be useful.
	And if they didn't have any kind of primary source, they had no sourcing whatsoever, that should have been a red flag for you that you couldn't verify the image, right?
	Objection form.
	Could be.
	The worst.
	Yes.
	What?
	Okay.
	He just sucks.
	Yeah, I mean, clearly we are returning to the idea that sourcing in the way that he views it as appropriate.
	Yeah.
	I never said that was the guy.
	I said they said that was the guy.
	If they credited their source, I would credit their source.
	But if they don't have a source, I just credit them.
	Sure.
	It's not how it works, buddy.
	It does when you go to street college for journalism school.
	Okay.
	Is there, like, a different way to describe streets of Canada?
	Paved in gold, baby.
	Okay.
	Yeah, I don't know what you would call it.
	I don't know a Canadian term for streets.
	I don't know much about Canada.
	I don't.
	I know knit hats or toques.
	Yeah, toque pool.
	That's our guy.
	That's Tim over there.
	We've got, I don't know, we can find, like, the cool, like, Quebecois way of saying it or whatever, you know?
	On May 8th.
	Yeah.
	I'll just figure it out once we make them a state.
	Yeah, yeah.
	When we finally put on our hat for real.
	That's right.
	On May 8th, had you ever heard of Today News Africa?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	You were familiar with this individual, Simon Ateba?
	I don't remember.
	Okay.
	To help refresh your memory, that's the person that I believe you referred to as a White House credentialed reporter?
	I believe so.
	Okay.
	What credentials, White House credentials, did he have?
	Objection form.
	I don't know which credentials he had.
	I know that he was listed as a White House credentialed.
	I don't know if it was a member of the press corps.
	There are different kinds of credentials, but that was my understanding.
	I mean, how did you gain this understanding?
	Objection form.
	I don't remember.
	At that point in time, there would have been people who verified that and told me that was the case.
	Did they, though, is the big question.
	And we will return to the differences of White House press credentials.
	But before we do, I want to talk a little bit about Simon.
	He's a Cameroonian journalist, founder of this website, which, Dennis, you can see here, Today News Africa, which looks almost exactly like a rip of the New York Post.
	And isn't the website gone now?
	It no longer exists.
	This is a screencap I got from the Wayback Machine archive.
	New York Post.
	Yep, exactly.
	I mean, lower quality.
	It's clearly a WordPress ripoff of the New York Post.
	But Simon, he is the founder as well as the sole employee of Today News Africa.
	Wow.
	So it's a one-man operation.
	Some may even call that a blog.
	Some may call that a blog.
	Yeah.
	Simon's career began in Nigeria where he worked for P.M. News as well as the capital letters, N-E-W-S. A big break of his was when he investigated the link between religion and money in Nigeria, which led him to supposedly be assaulted and briefly detained in Cameroon on suspicion of spying for Boko Haram, the Islamist militant group.
	Man.
	That is what is claimed.
	After that, he moved to the United States in 2017, where he focused on reporting on Africa-US relations.
	However, his tenure as a White House correspondent, it was kind of rough.
	Here's how a March 20, 2022 press briefing kicked off.
	Welcome, guys.
	Welcome.
	Welcome to the press briefing room.
	Okay.
	Are we ready?
	Are we going to behave?
	While many folks...
	The forum, please.
	Sorry to our guests.
	We apologize.
	Yes, I apologize.
	I apologize.
	Okay, while many...
	While many folks here in the U.S. are focused on March Madness, or the World Baseball Classic, go Team USA tomorrow night, by the way, we at the White House today are going to focus on another sport, which is soccer.
	Or football, as some of my guests might say.
	Specifically, AFC Richmond.
	And I can neither confirm nor deny the existence of the Believe banners that we're seeing around, that you all may be seeing around the White House complex today.
	It is an honor.
	It is truly an honor to have Coach Lasso here with us today.
	On a serious note, though, because this is actually very serious for the reasons that they all hear, Jason and his castmates, and there's a real message around mental health.
	So, behind the press secretary was Jason Sudeikis, as well as several other members of the cast of Ted Lasso.
	And they were there to talk about mental health and the importance of, you know, Biden's programs.
	This was in 2023, March 20th.
	Okay.
	What season of Ted Lasso would that have been?
	Well, I mean, it was wrapping up, I think.
	It might have been over by then.
	I just thought this was in 2020 for some reason.
	I just had the date wrong in my head.
	Speaking of wrapping up, at the end, Simon, continue.
	Oh, nice.
	Karim, what I'm saying is you can't keep discrimination against some people in the briefing room because you don't like them, you don't like them.
	So you have a choice.
	You have a choice.
	You have a choice.
	Okay.
	And I'm saying that that's not right.
	This is not China.
	This is not Russia.
	This is the United States, this is the White House.
	It's been seven months.
	The point is, the sergeant is going to arrest us.
	The sergeant is going to arrest us.
	The sergeant is going to arrest us too, pal.
	It's been seven months.
	You guys are not letting him leave for me.
	If you have grievances, you should bring them to her later.
	I have done that.
	I have done that.
	All my emails have been ignored.
	And the press corps is tired of dealing with this.
	It isn't just about you, Simon.
	I understand that you get questions all the time and you don't have to sit here for eight months and be discriminated against.
	I understand that you're in the front row and you feel comfortable.
	Don't make assumptions about what the rest of us do.
	Mind your manners when you're in here.
	If you have a problem, you bring it up afterwards.
	But you are impinging on everybody in here who's only trying to do their job.
	Okay, thank you.
	I'm saying that you shouldn't discriminate against some people because you don't agree with your question.
	You made your point.
	We all heard it.
	Alright.
	Guys.
	Yeah.
	They are so annoyed with him.
	Oh, of course, because this is not the first time that Simon has confronted Corrine Jean-Pierre, the White House press secretary at the time.
	It is clearly obnoxious behavior.
	It actually led to...
	Did he get his credentials pulled or something?
	Well...
	Well, that's the interesting thing.
	From the Wayback Machine, I found a capture of an article from Today News Africa titled, Simon Atiba Speaks to One American News.
	Press badge restrictions endanger First Amendment rights and journalistic freedom.
	discussing proposed changes to credentials i just started in the middle of the article here the white house notice stated that journalists who fail to act professionally could have their press badges revoked raising questions about what constitutes professionalism in the press room atiba insists and of course he is writing this himself atiba insists that he has always been professional and that pierre who has no journalism training has been disrespectful to him
	critics argue that these new rules put the first amendment in danger as they could be used by future administrations to make it more difficult for journalists to acquire hard passes and remove them from doing their jobs the focus should be on asking tough questions and conducting real investigations rather than maintaining friendly relations with those in power so i'm He got yelled at too much, and basically...
	Got yelled at for yelling.
	Yeah, they're like, we're gonna make a rule that you have to actually behave yourself in here, and he's like, no, fuck that.
	That's after the journalism fight, where the other reporters are like, come on!
	Shut the fuck up, man.
	Please!
	You're making it worse for all of us.
	Everyone knows it's kind of a tense situation in there, and press secretaries do have different relationships with different reporters.
	I mean, I feel like Trump kind of started that with Jim Acosta.
	Well, I mean, it's always been like that, I think.
	What's funny is, In Ted Lasso, there's different reporters and they all have different relationships, so it's kind of a fun little tieback.
	But regardless, there's a time where there's questions and there's a time where there's not questions.
	And so if there's going to be speaking and you just interrupt the speaking to ask your question early or whatever, it's disruptive.
	Oh, but he wasn't getting called on.
	Yep.
	Okay.
	I mean, I don't know anything about that.
	I have no idea either.
	There's clearly a front row of journalists who are...
	Sure.
	Yeah, the softball questions guys.
	Yeah, the friendly ones.
	Like, the Daily Wire now has a seat in the press room.
	Oh, great.
	Yeah, it's kind of cool.
	Didn't, like, all the classic media get kicked out of the...
	The Pentagon or something?
	Yeah, NPR got booted.
	Yeah, it's now just people doing the floss dance.
	It's like TikTok influencers.
	It's like anyone who's...
	Plugging a new...
	They've set up a bunch of podcast studios.
	If you have a new cool coin to promote, you can be there.
	They heard us talking about the Harlem Shake.
	You guys talking about the Harlem Shake?
	That's what we all do every week.
	Yeah, we do all the time.
	They heard it was coming back because the left creates culture.
	They just have to talk about it.
	Oh shit, that's coming back around right now?
	They're just doing Hegseth crowd surfing over Ben Shapiro.
	Knocking his...
	I saw Marco Rubio doing the plank.
	This is really cool.
	Yeah, I mean, we return to the discussion about the legitimacy surrounding Today News Africa, specifically Simon's credentials.
	Do you think he had any credentials that were any different than any member of the public who applies to access the White House grounds?
	Well, than any member of the public, or than members of the public who are allowed to access the White House grounds?
	Right.
	You know, do you know what a hard pass is to the White House?
	A hard pass?
	A hard pass, yeah.
	No.
	Okay.
	I mean, I didn't really know too much about this, but I assume that there are layers to the importance of specific journalists that are allowed in these types of situations.
	Hard passes, they are required to get into the White House, and you have to be employed by a news organization that regularly covers the White House.
	And, yeah, it's like newspapers, magazines, television, radio, TikTok.
	TikTok's listed?
	No, it's not.
	Okay.
	But, yeah, you also have to demonstrate that you regularly cover the White House, which typically means that you...
	Well, I mean...
	Sure, yeah.
	I mean, as long as it's White House coverage, I don't think the content should be restrictive of you getting in there, but...
	No, I completely agree, because that's...
	Look at what's going on now.
	If we are okay with Simon being kicked out without cause, then we have no right to be upset with the situation right now.
	Yep.
	If, let's see...
	Looking for a dentist?
	No, I'm trying to think of an NPR reporter.
	I can't think of any.
	Luis Schiavone's in there.
	Okay, sure.
	Or Jack Spear.
	Okay.
	If Jack Spear was speaking at a turn, I'd say kick him out.
	Kick him out.
	To the curb.
	I was going to let you in, but I'm going to say hard pass.
	Okay, very cool.
	Any member of the public can apply to the Secret Service to get a pass to enter White House grounds.
	Did you know that?
	I know people can enter a process, sure.
	Okay.
	Do you have any reason to think that...
	He had any different credentials than just getting a hard pass.
	What's the information at the time I did?
	Okay.
	And there's a difference between White House press credentials as well as White House Press Corps?
	No, something else.
	Did you think he was a member of the White House Correspondents Association?
	I don't recall at this time.
	Okay.
	There are a lot of media organizations who have something that they call White House correspondent, right?
	Correct.
	Okay.
	There are even organizations that have people who belong to things called press galleries.
	They have credentials from a press gallery.
	Are you familiar with that?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	Did you think that Mr. Ateba had credentials from a press gallery?
	I don't recall at this time.
	Okay.
	So, in terms of...
	Let me ask you this.
	In terms of why you believed...
	Well, let me stop because I'm making an assumption.
	Did you believe that Today News Africa was a credible and reliable news source?
	It's my recollection that at that moment in time, I was informed that it was.
	Okay.
	And why did you believe that?
	Because it looked like a New York Post.
	No.
	I'd be guessing.
	I would assume because there were other places that were including that image at the time and people on my staff said that it was.
	And that's not the answer to the question that was asked.
	No.
	It was asking about the reliability of the website in which he said he was familiar with before this incident where he took it.
	Did that look credible to you?
	Well, I forgot my glasses and I thought it was the New York Post.
	Yeah.
	So you can get a hard pass as a journalist and there is a huge difference between, you know, Having White House press credentials and being part of the White House Correspondents Association as well as the U.S. House of Representatives Press Gallery.
	White House press credentials, they allow journalists to enter the White House grounds and attend press briefings and events.
	And again, to obtain these credentials, you have to apply for a hard pass, do a background check from the Secret Service, and also demonstrate that you're a working journalist.
	That is what you would have to display to get a hard pass to be a White House press credentialed reporter.
	It would be like saying that I am a press credentialed reporter because I got a press pass to photograph Charlie Kirk.
	Exactly.
	Yeah.
	I mean, we would have stretched that as far as we could.
	Yeah, I've still got it.
	Technically, we are pressed for Turning Point USA events.
	Yeah.
	The America Fest.
	Here we come next year.
	We're on our way.
	I can't wait.
	Actually, this year.
	Yeah, it's usually before Christmas.
	But a White House Correspondents Association member, it's an independent organization that represents the interests of journalists covering the White House, advocates for press freedom and access to information, and organizes events like the Correspondents Dinner.
	It seems exhausting, right?
	I miss how fun those were.
	Yeah.
	Now it just feels like...
	Trump never goes.
	Yeah, it would just be like watching a Stephen Colbert or Jimmy Kimmel monologue.
	Yeah.
	I'd get the same kind of hit, which it doesn't work anymore for me.
	Like, a pun on Trump just doesn't really do anything.
	Yeah.
	It's like, you idiot, he's ruining the whole world.
	Yeah, it's just a little bit bigger than that.
	But yet, membership in the WHCA, it's not required to be a White House press credential reporter, but it's often seen as a professional affiliation with the White House correspondents.
	It feels more legit.
	Well, and it is more legit because the WHCA plays a role in organizing the seating chart for press briefings and helps manage the order.
	So it's like a subscription service to get the good questions out.
	Sure.
	You can watch the commercials and you can sit and watch it in 720p.
	Nice.
	But if you're part of the WHCA, then you get VIP seats.
	Yeah.
	And you get to talk, which is good.
	Or you're more likely to talk, I guess.
	I don't know.
	I think that some structure makes sense.
	Yeah.
	I mean, you don't want to have anybody.
	Listen.
	You end up with like libs of TikTok girl in there.
	I mean, I wouldn't be surprised.
	The Babylon Bee?
	Hello, I'm Derek from the Babylon Bee.
	I have a question.
	Why are you so cool?
	Why are you the coolest, man?
	Hi, thehardtimes.net?
	That'd be fun.
	Too liberal.
	So in recent years, the White House has implemented new rules that have reduced the number of journalists eligible for hard passes, leading to controversy and legal challenges.
	And this was all widely considered to be in response to Simon's shitty behavior in front of SNL alum Jason Sudeikis.
	But also, this isn't the only isolated example of bad behavior by Simon.
	In September of 2023, he shared a digitally altered video claiming to show Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky performing a belly dance. - Where we see a supposedly Volodymyr Zelensky having a boogie in a, doing a sort of belly dance in a red ensemble. he shared a digitally altered video claiming to show Ukrainian Having a boogie doing a sort of belly dance in a red ensemble.
	And this video has been doing the rounds for the last 10 days or so, racking up hundreds of thousands of views in lots of different languages, including Turkish, for one.
	And it's been shared with all sorts of comments here on Facebook.
	It says, Ukraine must be proud.
	It's also been shared on X. This user says, about time, Zelensky was sent to the front line.
	And here's another version of it on X where the user says, this is the problem with democracy.
	Zelensky will be remembered as the last leader of Ukraine, Mark.
	Indeed.
	Yeah, with Zelensky's face superimposed onto the body of Argentinian dancer Pablo Acosta.
	Published on Simon Atiba's website.
	We need to check Simon's...
	History.
	He also, in February of 2024, falsely claimed that Russia had foiled a Ukrainian assassination attempt on Tucker Carlson.
	In the grocery store when he was buying a baguette?
	I guess so.
	Where does he get this?
	Well, this was traced back to a pro-Kremlin disinformation website, which is known to make up stories to discredit Ukraine, and he took that as truth.
	Great.
	Yes.
	He's the kind of guy who would post, like, 1990s bad Photoshop porn as being like, Did you know Jennifer Aniston was nude in Friends?
	Sure, she's got, like, triple D's.
	Yeah, the episode NBC doesn't want you to see.
	It's like clearly a centerfold from Hustler.
	It's got like the lines in it.
	You can see the lines where the scissors cut it off and they scanned it in.
	Jenny McCarthy body or something like that.
	I feel like Simon would be the guy who got caught with all of that thinking it's legit.
	He's got his fucking scanner and all of his magazine clippings next to his fucking Lenovo work computer.
	His e-machine.
	I have some sad news.
	The machine's a great pull.
	Today News Africa is down.
	It is down.
	Yeah.
	Oh, no!
	But he does have a sub stack.
	Oh, no!
	Yes, that's a bummer.
	Do you see Friendsters coming back?
	No, I didn't.
	Is it really?
	It sure is.
	So moving away from Today News Africa, Mark is trying to establish you wouldn't just blindly believe any website, right?
	Only the good ones.
	I think we can assume that you would find a publication like Huffington Post to be frequently unreliable.
	Am I right in that?
	No.
	Can you give me an example of a media outlet that you would believe that is not sufficiently reliable enough for you to use the word reliable for them?
	Yeah, sure.
	I'm looking for a media organization you don't find to be generally credible.
	That you would say, hey, these people are frequently enough unreliable that I don't think they should be relied on for state of fact.
	Do you know a media organization like that?
	Well, the issue is there can be many different news outlets that are reliable at that moment in time, especially if it's original reporting, and that's why multiple sources are often included.
	But Huffington Post, I would say, is reliably opinion presented, obviously leaning left.
	As far as unreliable, anyone can be unreliable and make mistakes, and they can be reliable in other instances.
	Right, but we talked about how not all sources are equal.
	Some sources are well more reliable than others, right?
	Sometimes.
	I like the trap.
	And Stephen walked right into it.
	He didn't fall in and say, Huffington Post is fake news.
	What a...
	Man.
	What?
	I love how long he takes to think of his dance, you know?
	Yeah, he doesn't know the dance.
	Yeah.
	He, much like all of these conservative media commentators, they're not used to thinking outside of their echo chamber, the ones that they've created.
	Sure.
	But we're not done talking about Huffington Post.
	Or the HuffPo.
	You know, I used to get my news from there.
	Well, HuffPo used to be, like, alright, I feel like.
	Was it?
	It was different.
	Like, in 2005 to, like, 2010, it was kind of like...
	There was definitely, like, when more money started coming in to the thing, I think it got significantly shittier.
	But, you know, Ariane Huffington, she's a fucking...
	She's rich as hell, you know what I mean?
	But, you know, you think about, like, Vice Media or something like that, like...
	Buy signs with Fox News, you know, or Murdoch or whatever, and they fucking tanked their company, basically, over the last decade.
	Or Bezos and the Washington Post.
	We'll see how that turns out.
	Oh, that's right, that's right.
	Well, let's take Huffington Post.
	Huffington Post has a White House correspondent.
	You understand that?
	If you say so.
	Okay.
	That fact, the fact that they have a White House correspondent, that doesn't make them reliable, does it?
	It would be something taken into consideration.
	I would tend to imagine that you would find the majority of White House correspondents to be generally unreliable.
	Is that not true?
	Objection form.
	I would generally disagree with many of them.
	Well, I mean, you tell your audience on a pretty regular basis that various mainstream organizations are lying to them.
	Right?
	That's correct.
	Not just unreliable, not just makes mistakes, actively lies to them.
	You've told your audience that many times about mainstream media.
	And there is a difference, yes.
	And so, say you've got a mainstream media organization, one that you've criticized for lying in the past.
	It wouldn't follow for you to consider that organization to be generally reliable, would it?
	No, that's incorrect.
	They lie to me every time.
	I say that's reliable.
	He does this a couple times during this second half of the deposition, and I can't tell if he's just playing semantics or trying to purposely be irritating and grating to distract.
	I feel like he's one step away from being like, when I say reliable, I mean re-lie.
	Uh-huh.
	Which is the opposite of truth, according to Merriam-Webster.
	What the fuck, dude?
	Shut up.
	Stephen, do you believe that reliability is a thing that exists?
	Let's establish that there is a baseline of fact and reliability in sourcing.
	Yeah, I mean, all that he's saying is, listen, Stephen, you've said that some news outlets are reliable and some are not, and I just want you to share examples.
	And he's unwilling to do that.
	Yeah, you won't, because he understands that...
	Africa News Now or whatever is probably one that wouldn't be too reliable based on his own merit.
	He's also unwilling or unable, because he is reckless, to open the exit door in the case of an emergency.
	He doesn't know or doesn't want to talk about how he sourced or the process of sourcing this Today News Africa picture, the details surrounding it.
	Of course he doesn't want to, yeah.
	But he still should be able to use this image.
	With no question.
	No question.
	It would be.
	Able to use it.
	Okay.
	Before you decided to use our client's image, did you know if you were looking at the original image?
	What do you mean?
	If the image that you were looking at was the original image, or if it had been somebody else's edited image, if it had been cropped, changed, manipulated, anything like that.
	I don't recall at this time.
	That would have been a process with staff, with any image.
	Did you know who took the original image?
	I don't recall it this time.
	Did you know when the photo was taken?
	I don't recall it this time.
	That's why I referenced the person who included that image.
	Did you know where the photo was taken?
	I don't recall it this time.
	Did you at least know why the photo was taken?
	Again, I don't recall it this time.
	Okay.
	So we'll return to the why, but Dennis, you know a thing or two about pictures.
	Yeah.
	Do you think that Steven has someone on staff that determines the validity and if images have been edited?
	I don't think so.
	There's software to do this, and there's metadata to do this.
	There is metadata to see if you can see, like, if you've been processed in, like, a software of some kind.
	The problem with a lot of it, though, is a lot of it gets scrubbed.
	Because they're using screen cap.
	Yeah, screenshots would do that.
	Or like if it's posted to Facebook, it scrubs all the data except for the copyright information.
	And if it's just uploaded to a WordPress blog or something.
	Yeah, who knows?
	That one might retain some.
	It probably would.
	Yeah, I mean, there's ways to tell if it's doctored or ways to tell if it's edited.
	It's funny because I'll just say that when they're like, is this the original copy?
	That's really weird for most people to think about.
	And I think all he really meant to say was like...
	Do you know anything about this picture?
	Yeah, did this picture...
	Change from where it originated on the internet to the one you showed.
	There's plenty of ways to hide if it's been doctored.
	That being said, content credentials are a new thing that's coming out in the wake of AI. For example, Leica has a new camera that when you take the picture it'll apply content credentials that will be...
	Basically, it's a way to fingerprint it to say, was this ever changed after this moment?
	That's kind of interesting.
	You would think, though, that this image, which we haven't talked about exactly what it looks like yet, it does appear to be Mark's client, his head on top of a cutout of Mark Paul Gosler?
	What it is?
	His shirtless body.
	Oh, is it?
	No, of course not.
	Is that his name?
	It's Zach from Saved by the Bell.
	Oh, yeah, nice, nice.
	Great job.
	Simon strikes again.
	Simon strikes again with his funky cutouts of 90s celebs.
	I'm lying, of course, but...
	You're joking, I would say.
	Great point.
	Dishonestly joking.
	Lying and joking.
	Are all jokes like that lies?
	It sounds so aggressive.
	Wow, I didn't even think about that.
	I'm a liar?
	And a joker at the same time.
	Comedians are liars.
	Comedians are a bunch of liars, dude.
	This is kind of the why.
	I love this line that Mark points out.
	It really highlights the incompetence of the storytelling at Louder with Crowder.
	Well, we know we're looking at a booking photograph, right?
	Beg your pardon?
	We know we're looking at a booking.
	The photo that you use of my client, we know we're looking at a booking photograph.
	A booking photograph?
	Correct.
	You mean like, do you mean a mugshot?
	Correct.
	Well, I don't know that we know that right now, but that was the reporting from resources at that time.
	Let's put it this way.
	That's the information you had at that time?
	That's the information that was being reported on at that time.
	On screen here, you can see that it's an image of Mark's client up against a white wall.
	It's clearly a booking photo.
	I wouldn't even say it clearly is.
	Well, this is photoshopped with the image of intense violence behind it that this newscaster was referencing.
	The information about it being a booking photo puts into question a lot of details that Stephen already knew.
	So why would he have this image?
	Why would he believe it to be the shooter?
	Sure.
	Well, I think it also just raises that common point of, like, when you see, like, a story on Twitter of, like, you know, a black criminal and, like, shows their mugshot, but a white criminal, it shows, like, their graduation photo kind of a thing.
	Like, there's an implication in showing a booking photo no matter what.
	Who that photo is a person of.
	And so there's an intent when you share it that way.
	Well, you have to consider that the shooter wasn't brought into the station.
	The shooter was killed.
	Yeah, I know, right?
	So obviously he wasn't arrested.
	You knew the shooter wasn't arrested for the shooting, right?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	And you knew that from law enforcement on their announcement of his name and age and details that he had no criminal history, right?
	That the shooter had no criminal history?
	Right.
	The shooter who was killed in Allen?
	Correct.
	I don't recall that at this time that he had no criminal history.
	Would it be the normal practice of your show when covering an event like this to keep up with the announcements from DPS and City Allen police, the law enforcement officials?
	I don't know at that specific instance in time.
	I would imagine there would be an aggregation of sources.
	Okay.
	Well, let me ask you this.
	That's where we got the footage.
	I don't know where we got the footage of the officer who shot the shooter.
	Sure.
	Okay.
	But again, I don't remember.
	Assume for me that you had taken the efforts to find out about the details of the shooter, right?
	That he was Mauricio Garcia, 33 years of age, Dallas, Texas, no criminal history.
	If you had known that information, you would have known the image that you were looking at.
	This mugshot was not the shooter.
	Right?
	No.
	This is why what Steven does at Lauder with Crowder is the hardest job that you could have in entertainment.
	Being a comedian and the news?
	So tough.
	It would be hard to expect someone critically covering breaking news to look at the Dallas Public Safety website or to pay attention to press briefings beyond just what narrative this is going to revolve around.
	You know?
	Yeah, I love that Mark was basically like, so if you were told something, do you just forget it immediately?
	Actually, to be honest, I don't even look into it at all.
	Yeah, you're like, no, I just, whatever they put on the screen.
	I'm a good old Ron Burgundy.
	He is Ron Burgundy.
	Yeah, I mean, didn't he ask him that earlier?
	Yes, that was last episode.
	Are you tired?
	No, I mean, I just wanted to recall.
	Your guts are all fucked up from magnets.
	I have magnets.
	My magnets mess with my brain, dude.
	Yes.
	Closing my third eye on me.
	I love him walking through this like, here's the facts that we're given.
	Yep.
	No previous record.
	Was not taken into custody.
	His body is dead on the street.
	So why would they have this image?
	You were told that this man has never touched a guitar in his whole life, yet you posted a photo of him with the guitar.
	Curious.
	Interesting.
	That's basically what has happened.
	Stephen's like, um, uh, maybe.
	I got this trans joke I'd like to share with you.
	So stupid.
	All right, well, let me try to walk through the logic.
	Go ahead and assume for me that you knew.
	And I don't know if you did.
	I don't know if you did or you did not look at this or whatever.
	I'm not making that assumption.
	But if you did know the shooter had no criminal history and you knew he wasn't arrested for the shooting, you knew that mugshot wasn't a picture of the shooter.
	Right?
	If you had known that information, you would have reached that conclusion.
	No.
	Can you explain to me how a person with no criminal history and no arrest for the shooting, how they would have a mugshot?
	You were the one who said we are under the assumption that it's a mugshot.
	I just want to make sure I'm understanding, because obviously it's a little complicated.
	You just mentioned Mauricio Garcia, 33 years old, Texas area, Hispanic.
	That information is accurate, to my understanding.
	Yes, all that's accurate.
	Okay.
	And the image was not?
	Right, the image is Mauricio Garcia, 36 years old in Dallas.
	Right, I understand that.
	Okay.
	What I'm asking you is something a little different.
	Is that if you knew, if the information you were being reported is, hey, this mugshot is the shooter.
	But if you had known, if you had known he had no criminal history and wasn't arrested for the shooting, you should have concluded, based on that information, that that's not the shooter.
	Is that fair?
	No, I disagree.
	Okay.
	Again, can you try to explain to me how somebody who has no criminal history and was not arrested for the shooting, how they would have a booking photograph?
	I was reporting on the reported information that include the other information, which we both just agreed was accurate, and an image.
	I don't remember the rest of the details.
	I'm not asking any of that, though.
	I'm asking a very simple question.
	Jesus Christ.
	Steven, he's trying so hard to dance around this.
	Uh-huh.
	I mean, just like Greg Kelly certainly was on Newsmax.
	And thank goodness I'm having this issue.
	I'm having trouble tracking down the image of 36-year-old Mauricio Garcia who did nothing wrong to show you.
	Oh, the undoctored version?
	Yeah, the booking photo.
	And I'm having trouble finding that, which is actually kind of...
	A relief.
	I'm sure it's gone from everywhere, but...
	I bet I could find it on X, the Everything app.
	I bet you could.
	But yeah, Greg Kelly, the chyron here.
	The ticker.
	Saying, here we go again with, quote, white supremacy.
	Oh man, that guy's face looks so like...
	Yeah.
	Well, he lost his company a lot of money, but...
	It has to be so frustrating to be having this deposition with Stephen.
	Uh-huh.
	Because...
	No, no, I got this right, though.
	Yeah, he's like, no, I... I got his age.
	I got all the stuff.
	They gave me a photo of him.
	I got his name.
	I shouldn't use critical thinking skills.
	The most annoying thing is the photo is what he is focusing on in his episode of his show.
	The same with this guy.
	Here we go with white supremacy and showing an image of a clearly Hispanic face.
	What does that mean?
	We're going to talk about that.
	I want to ask you about something you said during the show.
	You had kind of started your segment there about the shooter's identity by saying Who the shooter was, a lot of what the media is telling you is bullshit.
	You remember saying that?
	Yeah.
	What was bullshit about it?
	Well, if I recall in the context of that when we ran clips or segments of this effect was the white supremacist mass shooter and then, of course, the aggressive push for gun control.
	And that the media had initially just covered it as a white supremacist mass shooter and then didn't go back to it, which was a pattern.
	What do you mean, didn't go back to it?
	What does that mean?
	Didn't go back to the story that they said they would be reporting on once new information had come out and instead pivoted to, you know, gun control measures.
	And I believe that we were pointing out at that point that the black officer used what would be described as An assault weapon.
	So are you saying that they abandoned the idea that the shooter was a white supremacist?
	I'm saying that the coverage was significantly less afterward.
	After what?
	After the name and information on the shooter was available.
	Well, the name was available well before you did your broadcast.
	Sure.
	In other words, when the media was calling this person a white supremacist, This narrative that they allegedly abandoned.
	It was known that the shooter was a Hispanic man.
	Well, I didn't say they allegedly abandoned that.
	Okay.
	I'm sorry.
	I'm getting really confused by some of your answers today, and I apologize.
	I don't think you need to apologize at all, Mark.
	Hey, I'm so sorry that you can't figure out the shit I'm trying to say.
	Do you think that maybe Steven...
	thinks that the media stopped covering this as a white supremacist mass shooting because Stephen isn't hyper-focused on defending a white person who's being accused of white supremacy?
	I don't know, man.
	I mean, he's still going to bat for folks like Dylann Roof.
	Yeah, I think Stephen doesn't believe that non-white people can be white supremacists.
	I think that's part of it, but I also think he's racist in his defense of mass shooters.
	Probably.
	I think if it's a black shooter, just like the one from a couple weeks ago, he's probably fine with calling that person a Nazi and moving on and not defending them at all.
	Sure.
	And if this was a white person in his definition of that, then he would still be defending this as well.
	Probably, yeah.
	It has nothing to do with race!
	I can hear the frustration in the voice of Mark.
	Patient man.
	I'm sorry.
	He's so funny.
	I'm sorry.
	He's offering sympathy.
	Not sympathy, but kind of like...
	Understanding.
	Yeah, he's like, you know, I'm...
	I'm sorry you have to try and answer these hard questions.
	Well, and also, I think he's maybe like, oh man, it must be tough making pretzels every day like you do at Louder with Crowder.
	Exactly.
	He's like, you know what?
	Oh man, I tell you what.
	Oh man, I tell you what.
	I'm getting good.
	My recall is getting kind of fast.
	I just need to like mash fingers from on the top.
	I don't think that's a good idea.
	Byron, if you are there, come up.
	That's for me, yes.
	Like we said, Mark is doing his best to understand exactly the struggle that Stephen's having here in expressing himself.
	What I believe that I had heard is that they shifted the story away from this white supremacy stuff once new information came out.
	No, they shifted away from the wall-to-wall coverage altogether.
	Wall-to-wall coverage of the shooting or the coverage that he was a white supremacist?
	Of the event altogether, yes.
	The initial coverage was white supremacist mass shooting.
	And then when the story was Hispanic male mass shooter taken out by a black officer with, I believe, an AR-15 or something equivalent, the story was not covered with the same zeal.
	And I believe that's the point that we were addressing.
	I'm not understanding, though, from the day of the shooting, or at least the day after, at least since May 7th.
	We all knew it was a Hispanic mass shooter, right?
	I believe you're correct the day after, yes.
	And so when the media was pushing this story about that law enforcement sources were saying that he was a white supremacist, they did that knowing he was Hispanic.
	Not initially.
	I don't understand, Mr. Crowder.
	The day after?
	We knew on May 7th, before your reporting, a full day before your reporting, the whole world knew that this was Mauricio Garcia, a Hispanic mass shooter, right?
	That's what we reported that day, yes.
	I believe your memory is correct.
	It was the day after the shooting that that information came out, right?
	Yes.
	Right.
	And then the day after that is when you did your reporting.
	Right.
	Right.
	I don't recall how quickly the news cycle surrounding this mass shooting was.
	Same.
	What I hear is I hear that Stephen...
	And many folks that I see do this often.
	They just have these, like, hey, listen, these are the phrases that get people up.
	Like, you know, country songs, like, my beer, my truck, my tractor kind of a thing?
	My dog.
	Yeah, yeah.
	The right has this, like, the news is changing their story.
	They have all these, like, catchphrases kind of things that just, like, get people all, like, you know, horny for it.
	I keep seeing PT Cruisers.
	Yeah, yeah.
	If you pay attention to it, maybe you're gonna...
	Yeah, better Meinhof phenomenon.
	Yeah, where, like, if you...
	If you look for a pattern, you'll see a pattern.
	You just pulled that out.
	Yeah, that was smart.
	You won the episode.
	We better shut this down.
	I hope that's what it's called.
	Yeah, it's like that.
	If you look for a pattern, you'll see a pattern.
	And so that's what's happening here.
	It's Stephen just spouting out the media's line to you because they will say that about literally everything.
	Well, yeah, but what about the good guy with a gun who also happened to be black?
	You have an AR-15 assault-style rifle.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	That's what you should be paying attention to.
	Exactly, pay attention to.
	It's one of those things where it's like people will think absence of evidence is proof of evidence of the opposite thing.
	Of evidence?
	Evidence.
	The evidence.
	You just lost the episode?
	No, I lost it.
	But no, they act like the absence of evidence is proof of evidence of the opposite.
	And it's not like that.
	It's okay to say, I don't have the facts yet.
	Especially if you were just trying to...
	This is a developing story, is what you could say.
	This is why people don't report on shooters.
	Things like this on the first day.
	Our majority report won't do it.
	Hassan won't do it.
	Just responsible news advocacy.
	SNL usually does it though.
	Yeah, yeah.
	When they get Michael Che up there just talking about the Buffalo shooter and how they actually were going to do something about Buffalo Wild Wings too or something.
	You know what I think that it is?
	It's that obviously people want answers really fast.
	Yeah.
	Like, immediately.
	Responsible journalists say, we'll get you information as we can.
	I never said I was a journalist.
	Right?
	And then other folks will be like...
	Let's just get this out.
	Well, yeah, we need the clicks.
	We need the clicks.
	Let's go for it.
	That's kind of the gross thing that they don't even really bring up.
	The traffic.
	That was a big part of the Sandy Hook-Alex Jones case was just how much money they made promoting their...
	Alpha male thing.
	Yeah, promoting super male vitality.
	In the wake of the Sandy Hook tragedy.
	Totally.
	Of course, when you are saying...
	I have the answer.
	Yeah, and the mainstream media is lying to you.
	It's a currency, period, or a currency of eyes, you know?
	Totally.
	And that's all they want.
	And like I said, people want answers.
	You give them an answer that fits their little, like, oh, that sounds right to me.
	Great, cool.
	Now I have a problem.
	You said that my client has a very Hispanic-looking face?
	There we are.
	What does that mean?
	It means exactly what I said.
	Can you explain it to me?
	I'm confused as to what that means.
	You're confused as to what a Hispanic person looks like?
	Yeah.
	Is there anybody Hispanic on their Zoom call right now?
	Injection form.
	Well, I see a lot of boxes.
	Well, you got some pictures in front of you.
	You got gallery view.
	Is there any Hispanics on the call right now?
	Teaching them how to use it.
	Injection form.
	Not one that would jump out to me is a very clearly Hispanic.
	Male face.
	No sombreros.
	Yeah, right?
	No, I don't see anyone.
	No one's drinking dosa keys.
	No one's shaking maracas.
	No one's sleeping midday.
	I'm looking around at all your tables and I'm not seeing any margaritas.
	There aren't any nachos.
	He's so stupid.
	I'm in the restaurant here.
	I'm looking around.
	There aren't any lucha libres.
	Walking around with the masks.
	That would have been really a shock if someone turns on their camera.
	You wouldn't happen to see anyone in the Zoom call who appears to be.
	And he's moonlighting as the DA now.
	Took enough chair shots to the head that the law started making sense to him.
	Alright.
	So, yeah, we're now into...
	Ooh, kind of a hot spot, a corner that Stephen painted himself in.
	When I found this in this clip, this was the funniest thing in the world to me.
	Yeah.
	Because it's like, can you describe, like for one, it's hard to describe what a race looks like, right?
	Yeah, yeah.
	If you say it, if you say, well, they're clearly Hispanic looking.
	Well, then you're responsible for what you said.
	Exactly.
	You have to, you're saying I have a clear definition of what Hispanic looks like.
	And it shouldn't be hard to share.
	Yeah, it shouldn't be hard to share if you can identify it.
	All right, so help me understand what that is, because there is a Hispanic on this call.
	What is a very Hispanic-looking face?
	Objection form.
	In the context of white supremacists, people generally think of white people, and this was clearly a Hispanic male.
	Are you saying that Hispanic people are not white?
	That's what you're saying.
	I'm saying they aren't.
	Typically white supremacists.
	Where'd you get that idea?
	You believe that Hispanic people aren't white, there are no white supremacists Hispanic people?
	I didn't say no, I said typically.
	Right.
	That means that there are, that does exist.
	If you say, yeah, typically, that comes with a but, doesn't it?
	But there are Hispanic white supremacists.
	Right?
	If you say there are so.
	I'm asking you.
	Did you know that?
	I would imagine that people who are not particularly white don't make great white supremacists.
	That's an interesting question.
	It wasn't a question.
	First of all, it actually raises a very interesting question.
	What a stupid dick move from...
	Piece of shit.
	Yeah, that's him.
	He said that like he was arguing with somebody on Facebook.
	Cool, man.
	Not a question, idiot.
	Oh, fuck, this guy's deposing me.
	So, obviously, people of color may internalize racist stereotypes, which lead them to believe in their own inferiority or seek validation by identifying with a dominant group.
	White people in this country.
	But even then, there's very few people who are, like, fully Mexican or fully Japanese.
	Yeah, that's why there's multiracial white supremacy as well.
	Well, that's also why people identify as white sometimes.
	Yeah, and we're not done exploring that.
	But, yeah, like, that's obvious.
	Yeah, I use my wife as an example.
	My wife is half Japanese and half Irish.
	Mm-hmm.
	And so...
	Rivers Cuomo?
	Sorry, what?
	Yeah.
	But it's easy for her to say, I'm an Asian American woman.
	And it's also easy for her to say, I'm a white woman.
	Her ethnicity is across many things.
	But even then, there's plenty of Hispanic people who are fully...
	Quote, unquote, white in the face, in the skin color, all of it.
	Of course.
	Which is what Mark is going to attend to.
	David Backman is a perfect example.
	Oh, yeah.
	From Argentina.
	And me, your friend, Jared.
	And, of course, my Jewish-Mexican friend, Jared.
	Yeah.
	Yes.
	Multicultural Jared.
	Wow.
	MCJ. Can I really quickly just say I was into an episode of David Pakman recently where someone said, you're just a typical white atheist.
	And he's like, I'm a Hispanic Jew!
	Yeah.
	It was great.
	It was really fun.
	You know what a Chicano is?
	I know the term Chicano.
	Yes.
	And I'm using that to mean an ethnic idea.
	Yeah, they discontinued those back in the...
	In the ice cream boom of 2015. What are you talking about?
	That is some good humor, Jared.
	Ethnic identity for Mexican Americans who have a non-Anglo self-image.
	You've heard that term before, Chicano?
	I'm sorry, could you repeat that?
	Yeah, but I'm using it to mean an ethnic identity for Mexican Americans who have a non-Anglo self-image.
	Sure.
	You've heard Chicano used that way, right?
	I've heard the term Chicano, yes.
	Not every Hispanic is a Chicano.
	You'd agree with that?
	Of course.
	And there are Hispanics, you understood, as of last year, you understood there are Hispanics who do have an Anglo self-image.
	Sure.
	You may not.
	What I'm saying is, you may not see them as white.
	But there are Hispanics who definitely see themselves as white.
	Rejection form.
	Like from Spain, perhaps, yeah.
	No, I'm saying there's Mexico.
	No, I'm saying Mexican-Americans.
	There are Mexican-Americans who identify as white.
	Objection form.
	Okay.
	Did you understand that?
	I understand that.
	I don't think he does.
	I believe that he does.
	I believe that he does, and he's just...
	Playing dumb?
	Yeah.
	Do you think he even knew what a Chicano was?
	Probably.
	I think he just used it as, like...
	A slur.
	Same way he says chain gang.
	Sure, exactly.
	I don't think he knew the true definition of it.
	No.
	I don't think I really did, honestly.
	I didn't.
	I also would never use that term unless I knew what it meant.
	But yeah, I mean, it just talks about the political identity and distinct cultural identity of Mexican Americans.
	Sure.
	Ones who relate to their Mexican culture.
	A lot of this is just Mark trying to be like, Stephen, tell me what Hispanic looks like.
	Why don't you be racist on the record?
	Yeah, right?
	That's totally, it's honestly irrelevant because any race could be a white supremacist.
	Yes.
	Right?
	Yeah.
	But it's really just wanting to be like, Stephen, what did you mean when you said, Clearly Hispanic.
	Yeah.
	What did you mean, man?
	He's not going to let it go easy.
	I take it you know, like in your life, you've known some Hispanic people.
	And some of them might have names like Robert.
	And some of them might have names like Roberto.
	You understand what I mean?
	Very well.
	And you understand what I mean by assimilationism.
	That there is a part of Hispanic culture that has attempted to be assimilationist.
	Right?
	And adopt into white American culture.
	You know that exists.
	I understand that it exists.
	You understand that there is also another separate part of Hispanic culture, which is non-assimilationist, which rejects an Anglo self-identity, right?
	Sure.
	And you understand that some people who are Hispanic identify as white, whereas other people in our culture do not consider them white.
	You understand that?
	Are you saying that some people identify as white and other people don't identify?
	Yes.
	Consider them white.
	Yes, I understand.
	Well, I understand white supremacy very well, but they would not include any of the aforementioned groups amongst them.
	Right.
	They would not allow it, which is why it's a repugnant ideology.
	Right.
	So what I'm saying is, you already knew when broadcasting the show.
	That not only do some Hispanics identify as white, let's go back.
	When I talk about cultural litigation, for instance, the real shooter, let's talk about the real 33-year-old Mauricio Garcia who committed this crime.
	That person very well might consider themselves white or considered before their death, but you didn't consider them white, correct?
	Extraction form.
	Would I consider a Hispanic looking male white?
	No, I would consider him a Hispanic male.
	Do you know what the real shooter looks like?
	What the real shooter looks like?
	It is my understanding that he's a Hispanic male.
	Well, I'm asking you, does he have a very Hispanic-looking face?
	To the best of my recollection, he looks Hispanic, yes.
	Okay.
	Seeing is believing.
	Looking is fact.
	If you look Hispanic, you are.
	It's kind of like that movie Field of Dreams.
	If you build it, he will come.
	Over the border.
	I don't know where you're going with that.
	It's about the wall.
	What are we building?
	If you build the wall, that's good.
	What I love about that clip that you just played was at the beginning when he said, Very well.
	Meaning that, like, at some point in Stephen's life, he, like, grew up with a kid named Robert, and then he found out after high school that his name was Roberto.
	He felt betrayed.
	Yeah, he's like, you betrayed me, man!
	I know that all too well, Mark.
	Let me tell you.
	You were passing white, and then I found out there's an O at the end of your name?
	What is this?
	So now we have some agreement.
	We have an agreement about how people have different names.
	Mark moves forward into the broadcast a bit.
	You understood when doing your broadcast that not only do some Hispanics identify as whites, some identify as neo-Nazis and white supremacists.
	You knew that, right?
	No.
	You didn't know that.
	That was new information to you.
	I believe if you watch the show, it was comical information.
	You found it funny that a Hispanic person, in an attempt to litigate their own whiteness, might associate with white supremacy and white supremacist ideas?
	Have you heard the show?
	I find it comical that someone who would not be accepted amongst racist white supremacists in any way, shape, or form would identify with them.
	Are you really in touch with how racist white supremacists might view certain people?
	Is that something you know a lot about?
	Objection form.
	Are you asking me personally?
	I know there are Hispanic white supremacists.
	That's a thing that exists.
	I know that.
	I know there are neo-Nazi white supremacists who have Hispanic backgrounds.
	And I think what you're saying is that...
	That's actually not possible because no white supremacists would ever associate.
	So I guess what I'm getting at is...
	Correct.
	As a general rule, white supremacists tend to be quite racist.
	From experience.
	Right.
	I get that.
	And Hispanic white supremacists also tend to be quite racist, don't they?
	I know that Hispanic people can be racist as anyone can be racist.
	I'm asking you specifically, though, about Hispanic white supremacists.
	It can be very, very racist, right?
	Objection for...
	I would imagine if a Hispanic person identifies as a white supremacist, that they would be quite racist.
	I think we can agree there.
	The way that he was like, you seem to know how white supremacists feel, Stephen.
	Tell me about that.
	Are you coming to these views because of that you are?
	That was on the edge of unprofessional.
	I would agree.
	And Stephen was...
	You could tell Steven was pissed about that.
	Yeah.
	I mean, he didn't know what you can say.
	I mean, I don't know.
	In person, he would have been like, how about you go fuck yourself?
	That's probably what he would have said.
	But good on Steve for keeping a level head, I guess.
	And they found agreement at the end.
	And that's the most important part, right?
	It's frustrating that it took like 45 minutes to be like...
	Do you think that there are Hispanic white supremacists who are racist?
	And then he backtracks on it entirely.
	He's like, no, that's not a real thing, like I said.
	A Hispanic white supremacist doesn't exist.
	Does a unicorn exist?
	That's the same in his head.
	Well, I think we have proof.
	Clearly a Hispanic male who had Nazi tattoos all over his body that killed a bunch of people.
	What do you mean he's clearly Hispanic?
	I'm just kidding.
	You didn't say he was clearly Hispanic.
	You said there clearly was a Hispanic male.
	Okay, good.
	I was sweating over here.
	Watching him, or listening to him, I guess, get dog walked.
	I don't know.
	It's like a weird, not satisfying thing in some way, because it's like...
	This doesn't mean anything to him.
	He will admit he's wrong and then continue to do the same bullshit until the fucking cats come home or whatever.
	In some ways it's like, yeah, this rule is like you're getting one over on him and I hope that he ends up having to pay out the ass for this because he deserves to.
	But ultimately...
	We've seen him operate, especially over the last 55 episodes, 54 episodes.
	When he says that he's fine with it, I think that that's kind of true, and that he'll continue putting himself in this position.
	I mean, it just makes him look like a victim.
	To an increasingly smaller set of people, though, too.
	Yeah, but like a cult, he's successfully isolated his audience to the point where they don't trust anyone else.
	Stop big con.
	It doesn't matter who it is or what perspective they claim to have.
	They're lying.
	Yeah, I mean, I just hope that our victim here gets enough to buy himself a Ford Raptor.
	What if that was just a settlement?
	I know a guy who's going to give him your car.
	We'll get you 200 entries into a truck giveaway.
	Yeah, the boys at Bigly are going to hook you up.
	Odds are really good.
	Unfortunately, Mark falls into a trap much like we have in our past.
	If he would have just reached out ahead of the deposition, I could have cleared this up for you, Mark.
	You understand there are a lot of different backgrounds that a person could have that would make them Hispanic.
	Absolutely, or Latino.
	For instance, Ted Cruz.
	He's Hispanic, but he's also Canadian like you, right?
	Well, I'm American, but...
	Oh, I thought you were Canadian.
	I was raised in Canada, but I was born in Michigan.
	There we go.
	Anchor baby, right?
	No, my dad's American.
	Oh, are they too?
	My dad's American.
	My grandparents are American.
	So you were just a temporary expat then, basically.
	My mom's French-Canadian and we lived there for a while, so you automatically get a citizenship when your mother is French-Canadian in Quebec.
	But I don't know that anchor baby would be appropriate.
	Yeah, it sounds more like you just maybe have a...
	A dual background there on both sides of the border.
	Sure.
	Northern side.
	Yeah.
	We're talking about Hispanic.
	They exist in Canada, too.
	That's true.
	That's true.
	He really liked talking about himself there.
	He did, yeah.
	He, like, kind of, like, when he's got a fun fact to share, his, like, whole tone shifts.
	The Ron Burgundy comment from last week.
	Sure, yeah, he lights up.
	This one where he gets to talk about him, he's like, well, actually...
	Steven trying to toss in about the southern border, implying that maybe the northern border is, like, different.
	We definitely did, yeah.
	Both sides of the board.
	He's like, no, no, no.
	I've never lived in Mexico.
	No, no, no, no, no, no.
	I don't go down there.
	That's disgusting.
	And it's like, yeah, yeah, you just mentioned Ted Cruz literally two seconds before that.
	Yeah, we established this, Stephen.
	This is a very, like, not needed commentary.
	I think he's Canadian.
	Stephen?
	We just keep that rumor going.
	He's definitely Canadian, dude.
	Yeah.
	He's lying.
	Show me his birth certificate.
	I've never seen his birth certificate.
	That's true.
	Until he displays it, I think he's Canadian.
	Yeah.
	What's he sipping on?
	A little bit of a clearly Canadian ginger ale, Canada Dry maple syrup.
	Of course.
	Well, if he did that, he wouldn't sound so hoarse at the beginning of every episode.
	What's in the mug?
	But back to the bullshit.
	You remember we looked at earlier, we saw about how...
	The idea here was you had information on this shooting, and you were going to show the lies of the mainstream media.
	But when it comes to the identity of the shooter, you were incorrect about that.
	The media wasn't lying, right?
	All the other information was correct, as you listed, as far as the age, the name, person, and yeah, the image was incorrectly sourced.
	I'm not talking about what you did.
	I'm talking about when it comes to the shooter's identity, the media didn't lie.
	The mainstream media outlets that you identified, they didn't lie.
	I believe they were misleading.
	In what way were they misleading?
	In saying white supremacists and then abandoning the story once they realized that the person was Hispanic.
	Even if you may say so, but The media decided that it wasn't a story they wanted to cover as much.
	All right.
	Because the media wanted to have an idea of what a white supremacist looks like, I would imagine.
	Right.
	Well, I want to...
	Right, and he didn't look like my client, did he?
	Objection form.
	A white supremacist wouldn't look like someone who looks Hispanic.
	Right.
	I'm talking about the actual shooter.
	And I know that you're hesitant to call him a neo-Nazi shooter, but I'm going to call a chair a chair.
	He's a neo-Nazi shooter.
	And that neo-Nazi, he doesn't look like my client.
	Mariso Garcia, the neo-Nazi shooter?
	Right.
	Doesn't look like my client.
	I don't recall how much they look alike.
	You'd think he'd be well aware of the...
	Identity of these shooters.
	But to him, I guess a Hispanic person looks like a Hispanic person.
	Stephen just does not want to say he was wrong.
	No, but he was correct with the age, the name, the person.
	That's what he said in his list.
	The person?
	No.
	The whole person?
	No, no.
	He was wrong about the age and wrong about the image.
	This is the important thing to Stephen.
	It's that the mainstream media lied by saying it was a white supremacist shooter.
	And then once it was determined that even though on day one it was Mauricio Garcia, a Hispanic person, that they decided to cut bait, abandon the story.
	I don't know how the media...
	It's hard to say.
	I would say with...
	I would believe that odds are the media wasn't like...
	He wasn't a white supremacist.
	Turns out he's Hispanic.
	I don't think they said that.
	No.
	I think they probably were just talking about him as a person and not talking about white supremacy as much, maybe?
	Once the shooting is over and...
	There's a new one to cover.
	Well, that's kind of sadly true in the United States, but no, I mean, the shooter's dead.
	The victims are dead.
	And the coverage will shift to the action to be taken in response to the shooting.
	Exactly, which goes to the government in talking about gun control.
	Yeah.
	Which means before the body assumes room temperature, as he always says.
	Yeah, yeah, right.
	That's the direction things typically go, except for...
	Weird conspiracy theorists who focus on second shooters.
	So maybe that's why he's thinking that this news cycle ended abruptly and early?
	Sure, yeah.
	Well, I mean, and this questioning is just basically designed to establish, okay, Stephen, the reason those people aren't getting sued is because they didn't show the wrong picture like you did.
	Yes.
	Yeah, they didn't.
	A handful of people did, and they all got in trouble.
	So, yeah.
	All right, the media was accurate.
	That the shooter was Mauricio Garcia, the mainstream media outlets that you cited.
	They were accurate about that, right?
	Yes.
	They were accurate that he was 33 years old.
	That's my understanding.
	They were accurate that he had neo-Nazi, multiple neo-Nazi tattoos on his body.
	That's my understanding.
	They were right that he had a vest that was for right-wing death squad.
	Correct?
	I don't recall that, but if you say so.
	Look into it.
	They were correct that he had a social media presence where he expressed neo-Nazi views.
	I don't recall that, but if you say so.
	God damn it.
	I agree that the media was accurate that they were correct that he had a social media presence where he expressed neo-Nazi views.
	I don't recall that, but if you say so.
	Okay.
	I'm just trying to figure out what they might have said about the shooter's identity, if anything, that was bullshit.
	Yeah, well, as you said, the shooting happened, I believe, on the 6th.
	And the 7th.
	That's when the election came out.
	It's my understanding that the media was running with the narrative of white supremacists before the 7th.
	And certainly running with the narrative that white supremacy is the greatest domestic terror threat in the United States and certainly pushing the narrative of gun control.
	And so the bullshit there is because a black officer who, if my recollection is correct, was either off duty or responding to a call at chance, shot the man with his own firearm that the same media said would need to be controlled to prevent mass shootings.
	That has nothing to do with who the shooter was.
	You asked what the media was presenting that I believed was...
	Bullshit.
	Now, actually, what I asked you was, when it comes to the reporting on the shooter's identity, when you said who the shooter was, a lot of what the media is telling you is bullshit.
	I do like the idea of so loosely saying bullshit in this conversation.
	Yeah.
	I like that a lot.
	Also, what I love about this is that Stephen is trying to just distract.
	Of course.
	He's saying, okay, I don't care about any of that stuff.
	None of that stuff matters at all.
	It's the exact same thing about the New Orleans truck attack, that they were talking about immigration, when it was totally unrelated to what was happening.
	Yeah, things are getting increasingly unhinged.
	Uh-huh, yeah.
	When every mass casualty event that happens in the United States is now, it's either a Haitian migrants.
	It's DEI. It's DEI this week.
	It's immigration.
	And it's mask off, because was it J.D. Vance who came out and admitted that...
	Okay, like the images of barbecuing cats, the person carrying the geese that were actually roadkill from another city.
	We know that that's not real, but it's highlighting this more important thing, which is an app that I don't like that lets people more easily come into the United States.
	It reminds me of a very specific Onion News Network video.
	Okay.
	I'm going to explain it really quick.
	You love these.
	I do.
	They're great.
	It's about how college students report getting stoked a lot.
	And there's one lady on this, and she says, and now he's dead!
	And someone says, really?
	And she goes, well, he ought to be!
	And that's basically...
	It's the attitude of the right wing.
	Wow, there was a mass shooting?
	It was an immigrant, was it?
	Probably.
	And that's how the news is born.
	You know?
	Yeah.
	And it's absolutely bonkers.
	I really love that Mark is like, listen, that's not what we're talking about.
	I'm going to ask you again.
	They listed these facts.
	Were any of those incorrect?
	I got it mostly right.
	I just want to say that for the fourth time.
	If this was a test, I would have passed.
	Well, I would have gotten like a C. Yeah.
	D's get degrees.
	Is that right?
	That's why they call them D-grees.
	Is there a fake porn called D's get degrees?
	I don't like this.
	I'm looking it up.
	It's college.
	Don't look it up.
	Get a degree.
	Get my pussy.
	Degree porn videos.
	I can't look at any of these.
	Yeah, in Texas you're all blocked.
	Yeah, you guys too.
	I need to get the VPN turned on.
	I agree that white supremacy is a key element to what we're talking about.
	I'm not sure that gun control is, but we'll just disagree.
	We'll agree to disagree on.
	But what I'm asking you, and again, I'm just trying to get a straight answer to this, to know if there is or there isn't.
	Was there anything that the mainstream media said about the shooter's identity, who he was, his background, or belief system that was bullshit?
	I don't recall beyond the examples that I've given you.
	It is my recollection that on May 6th they were already labeling it another white supremacist massacre.
	Let's say they were.
	Let's say they were.
	And they weren't, but let's say they were.
	That's not wrong.
	That's not bullshit.
	Right?
	Disagree.
	He's basically saying, like, you can't agree on the facts of this case.
	The fact is, this mass shooter had these tattoos, had these neo-Nazi views.
	Those are the facts, and you're saying that those aren't the facts, and you're saying that other people are lying about them.
	Well, yeah.
	The thing that frustrates me the most about this is him...
	Being so hung up on the right-wing death squad patch, no one's talking about the Punisher skulls, even though they are problematic.
	But I guess he was right to pump the brakes on the reporting of that, because it wasn't until May 9th that Bellingcat researcher and trainer Alex Toler was able to...
	Locate the OK.ru account.
	Oh, sure.
	Where there was all of these images confirming not just, like, the tattoos, but also the test runs driving by the location, scouting it out, as well as the vest with the right-wing death squad patch on it.
	Yeah.
	In a sense, I agree with Stephen's hesitancy to report what the vest said until there was evidence of it.
	If it was out earlier?
	He just wouldn't have reported that.
	He omits things that are bad for his narrative.
	Yeah.
	And so that's what I'm saying.
	All we're looking at really is, listen, at the end of the day, what did the media lie about?
	And they didn't lie about anything.
	And obviously there may have been misinformation, but specifically to the identity of the person, what do they lie about?
	That's it.
	And Stephen, for some reason, can't say they didn't.
	I don't know.
	When you title your episode, Exposing the Media's Bullshit, you kind of have to stick with that.
	But let's jump back to the conversation about, and I don't think he's going to get anywhere, but Stephen's reluctance to call this person a neo-Nazi.
	Let's get back to that issue of, I think this gets back to the idea of you're hesitant to call this person a neo-Nazi mashu.
	Remember us talking about that?
	I do.
	So it's not enough that he has neo-Nazi tattoos.
	Not enough that he had a social media presence that had neo-Nazi beliefs.
	What would it take for you to be able to call somebody a neo-Nazi?
	Objection form.
	Probably someone being in an official neo-Nazi organization and typically white as far as presenting it to the public in relation to the threat that was presented.
	White domestic terrorism.
	Is the term that was used.
	So, white, neo-Nazi, would be relevant to domestic terrorism, which I also disagree.
	Alright, so to be a neo-Nazi, you have to be white and you have to be a member of a neo-Nazi organization.
	Official.
	Anything else?
	In general, that would be a good start.
	I think that's like the biggest piece of shit moment for Stephen.
	Be part of an official group.
	How many official neo-Nazi groups are there that have, like, registries and roles?
	I have no idea.
	Because if they existed...
	Yeah, membership fees.
	If we're not paying your dues, you gotta go be just a normal-ass racist.
	You gotta go, yeah, back to your porch.
	In your rocking chair.
	Your neo-Nazi subscription expired.
	If you want to renew, you have to pay double.
	Reinstating fee.
	It's just dumb guy shit.
	It is just dumb guy shit.
	It's just even trying to be like, well, let me add some stuff around it.
	This could potentially make me sound like a white supremacist if I don't...
	Or a neo-Nazi if I don't answer this correctly.
	So it has to be on ink and pen.
	Yeah, ink and paper and registry fees for sure.
	You can't call me a Nazi because I'm not part of the club.
	I hit the other stuff, but you know.
	Quacks like a duck.
	Call a chair a chair, as you said earlier.
	You can only call a chair a chair if it's part of a chair organization.
	If it's registered with the trademark office as a chair.
	That's a great point.
	Yeah, exactly.
	Yeah, it's crazy.
	I generally would say that I'm left-leaning.
	I'm a liberal.
	But I'm not actually a registered Democrat, so I'm not a liberal.
	Is that true?
	You don't register as parties in our state.
	As a liberal?
	As a liberal?
	But I wish that Stephen could define Hispanic-looking face as well as he can define Nazi.
	That's interesting.
	Great point.
	And also, what was he saying about the difference between being a neo-Nazi and being a white supremacist domestic terrorist?
	Which he also said, which I don't agree he is, right?
	He's like arguing between hebophiles and pedophiles.
	Not a conversation anyone needs to be debate-browing right now.
	Jesus.
	Now, I was directed to a page that I know you don't operate.
	Let me make sure.
	Let's get that on the record first.
	We have a page here that's MGTOW.TV. You see that?
	Yes, I see it in the corner there.
	Okay.
	You familiar with that abbreviation?
	I'm not, no.
	You ever heard of men going their own way?
	No.
	It's like an incel thing.
	I'm not sure if you know what incel is.
	I'm familiar with the term incel.
	Okay.
	Uh-huh.
	Really interesting.
	He's...
	Steven's...
	He knows what incel is because he's a vulcel.
	Well, I guess you're right.
	He is kind of choosing...
	I don't know.
	Actually, I don't even...
	I'm willing to bet he's not a vulcel anymore.
	I don't know how much we want to speculate about the sex...
	Remember all this stuff about, like, after he got divorced, and he's like, I might never kiss another woman again.
	Well, at the same time, he was hitting on Candace Owens at a New Year's party shortly after the...
	Separation.
	Yeah, no one believes in this shit, but it's very...
	I know what my sex life is like.
	I do know that I was at MGTOW.tv.
	You're a mod, right?
	No, not yet.
	The website, that is where I was able to locate the show Stephen had removed from his website, and that's where Mark is going with this.
	But I had no idea it was an acronym for Men Going Their Own Way.
	You sure can, according to ADL's Center on Extremism's coverage of the misogynist manosphere and its subcultures.
	I'm going to read a little bit about it, just for fun.
	Even though...
	The ADL's in some hot water, though.
	Yeah, so...
	Have a little pinch of salt.
	I thought that this was a really interesting thing for Mark to bring up, even though it's not really related, I guess.
	Men going their own way is a distinct faction of the manosphere, the broad set of male supremacist, anti-feminist, misogynist, and sometimes violent extremism movement that largely exists online.
	The MGTOW movement began online in the early 2000s when bloggers drafted manifestos outlining their desire for men to separate themselves from women and form a single gender society.
	A bunch of fucking dorks.
	Yeah, they isolate themselves from all women.
	As well as anyone who advocates or defends feminism.
	That's probably why they're fans of the show and they're re-uploading it on their alternative YouTube.
	The primary threat posed by MGTOWs comes from their dangerous and disingenuous anti-feminist rhetoric, including lies about the nature and consequences of feminism, the reality of discrimination faced by women, and the impact of cultural feminism on men.
	Jared, are you familiar at all with this subculture of incels?
	No, this one's, like, beyond me, for sure.
	Me too.
	Yeah, they believe modern Western society has become corrupted by feminism.
	They especially blame third-wave feminism, which is characterized by its attention to intersectionality of misogyny, sex, and body positivity, and its focus on redefining traditional gender roles.
	They also argue that feminism ensures that men are either actively subjected to or at serious risk of discrimination because modern society is too focused on women instead of men.
	They're proof and double standards evident in workplaces, legal rulings, etc.
	They're men's rights, folks, basically.
	I thought that that was just all of them anyway.
	Gamergate evolved because they were like...
	Yeah.
	That sounds like.
	What sets them apart is they advocate for men to withdraw completely from society, to minimally interact with women and men who do not share their ideas.
	So I guess they just hang out with their one friend.
	Yeah.
	I can't imagine a world where I didn't interact with women.
	It's me.
	It's Rupert.
	We're making eye contact and jerking off, but we're not touching each other.
	Jesus.
	Yeah, that's a tough life, huh?
	Pretty cool, I guess.
	You know, if you're...
	If you're horny enough, I guess.
	Wow.
	So yeah, obviously this is not good for their mental health to want to separate themselves from all women and men who disagree with them.
	Yeah.
	I would feel very weird if I found out that if we had a faction of people who loved our show in, I don't know, some random country in Europe, that would be weird.
	I'd be like, this is odd.
	It's like these people are a faction who love our show.
	And if those people...
	We're all like this, incels.
	I'd be like...
	What am I saying that is relating to this kind of dangerous sub-genre of people?
	It's like if you had a bunch of plays and you're like, I wonder where those are coming from?
	And they're all like...
	They're all prisons.
	Yeah, you're like, ah, crap.
	I have the wrong audience.
	You know, that's how I would feel.
	Yeah.
	But Stephen might be like, oh, yeah.
	It's hitting.
	Men go on their own way?
	Good.
	I like that.
	Trailblazers, really.
	Trailblazers.
	That's what we call them.
	We know that's not our official stance, okay?
	No.
	That's not our official stance.
	Yuck.
	I cannot imagine a life without women in it.
	I cannot.
	I literally cannot.
	Well, close your eyes and try again.
	Wow.
	Peaceful.
	No, not at all.
	Quiet.
	Not at all, man.
	No more nagging.
	No more ball and train.
	This is men who are anti-feminist and separatist and that sort of thing.
	But I noticed that there is a Stephen Crowder account on this website.
	Does that have anything to do with your company or you?
	No.
	Okay.
	You understand, as we were talking earlier, that...
	People republish your stuff on the internet all the time.
	Of course they can.
	Yeah, and in fact, it's not actually the worst thing in the world for you because that might direct people to your website to buy your stuff, things like that.
	There's some benefit to you from that.
	We would agree?
	Not necessarily.
	Okay.
	Now on your YouTube page...
	I'd rather people not rip and upload our content.
	Okay.
	Sorry, Steven.
	We don't re-upload it in whole, though.
	That's a good point.
	Yeah, we commentate on it.
	We're critical of that content.
	Very critical of the content.
	Yeah.
	But speaking of his YouTube page, which we are not stealing stuff off of, we are definitely ripping it from Rumble.
	Nice.
	On your YouTube page now, the videos, if you'll see here in the top middle, there's videos that I have pictures of my client.
	You see what I'm referring to?
	Yes.
	Those videos no longer exist on the Steven Crowder YouTube or Rumble pages, right?
	That's my understanding.
	Okay.
	And so part of the reason I'm showing you this is because here we have the two episodes that you had done on it in order, right?
	I think what you will agree with me is that if you look at the top two middle videos, those are actually the same video.
	You agree?
	That's what it looks like?
	Those are the same video?
	That's what it looks like to me.
	I haven't watched every minute of it, but they have basically the same time, same title, very similar thumbnail.
	I'm assuming that's the same episode.
	You didn't do two episodes about my client, right?
	I couldn't answer.
	This is my first time seeing it.
	One looks like a different time code from the other, actually.
	12510, 12521, so I don't know.
	Again, I'm not familiar with this channel.
	Yeah, okay.
	But we do know that the next day, we see at the top left, It also has your next day episode, right?
	This one that was titled, Are Intelligence Agencies Involved in Texas Mass Shooting?
	You see that?
	I see what you're showing me, yes.
	Okay, so in the middle picture videos, we see that those episodes were the ones in which, or episode, was the one in which you used an image of my client as the shooter, right?
	It would appear so.
	Now, the episode the next day...
	What you're showing there, that's a picture of the real shooter there of his Nazi tattoos, right?
	To the best of my recollection.
	All right.
	And once it became clear, once it became clear to you that there was images out there of this person of neo-Nazi tattoos, your next report was to say that intelligence agencies might be involved in this shooting, right?
	Injection form.
	I don't recall.
	And I actually don't recall the name of his May 9th episode, the episode that followed the one that we covered last week briefly.
	But it is clear that he is shifting his narrative very quickly, and I don't think even influenced by his mistake, really.
	Sure.
	I don't think he's too terribly bothered by the fact that he got it wrong until this lawsuit happened.
	Yeah, and that's the part that I think...
	It's so telling.
	Because if I found out that something I had said was totally wrong, I'd be like, fuck, that's a big deal.
	Retract it.
	Yeah.
	Especially if you were doing a daily show, right?
	Totally.
	Admonish.
	God, admonish is something we need to add to the soundboard for sure.
	I know that we've gotten some things wrong, or in hindsight, we have said things that I was like, 100 cigarettes?
	What the fuck is that?
	Yeah, that was a big fuck-up, Jared.
	I would never get a fact like...
	Someone's name wrong and frame someone as a neo-Nazi mass shooter and not take responsibility for it.
	Big difference between getting a statistic wrong and just admonishing next week.
	What if we realized this far into our show that Steven Crowder was not his name?
	Or we were reporting on the different Steven Crowder?
	Like we meant to be discovering some guy who works at an auto zone in Alabama?
	Yeah, a guy ripped me off named Steve Chandler or something.
	And this was the whole point?
	No, I mean, I don't know where I was going with that.
	It's clear that basically this direction is going to be going, did you even say you were wrong?
	Or did you just let it go?
	Well, and by the shifting of the narrative, it is just so indicative of how he does business on a regular basis.
	Sure, yeah.
	Have you watched the May 9th show recently?
	Like, in preparation for this deposition?
	No, I haven't watched it.
	No, no way he did.
	Would you disagree with me that once all this came out about the shooters, pictures of the shooter's actual body, that once that happened, you started suggesting that this incident was some sort of PSYOP or psychological operation?
	I don't believe that I referred, I don't recall referring to it as a PSYOP. Okay.
	You have any idea why you thought intelligence agencies might be involved?
	Is that something you thought?
	I don't recall, but it wouldn't be surprising.
	Explain that to me.
	It wouldn't be surprising for U.S. intelligence agencies to be involved in this neo-Nazi mass shooting?
	That's not surprising?
	I would imagine that intelligence agencies would be involved with any type of mass shooting.
	It would require the use of intelligence.
	Wait, you're meaning that what you're saying right now is you think intelligence agencies would be involved after the fact in some way, like investigating it?
	They could.
	That's not what this show is about, right?
	You understand that.
	I don't recall.
	Is it something like the Hunter Biden laptop story?
	I don't think so.
	Because I know we've talked about those where I don't remember this one.
	Absolutely get fucked.
	And shut up.
	That's the most frustrating thing.
	Yeah, I mean, of course they'd be involved.
	Let me explain his brain rot really quick.
	He thinks the government, I mean, either Manchurian candidated this person or faked their social media to make their...
	Timelines match up.
	That's what he thinks.
	He doesn't believe that this was a true white supremacist shooter.
	He thinks that it was a mentally ill person who was put in the position of being this killer.
	Yeah.
	Let's trick this guy into being the killer.
	He's a conspiracy theorist.
	Well, I think the most frustrating about this specifically, Mark knows that's what Stephen is saying.
	Stephen tries to act like...
	What I meant by that was, yeah, they breathe oxygen.
	So I wasn't blaming it on oxygen.
	I was saying that oxygen was part of it.
	Yeah.
	I wasn't saying oxygen did it.
	I just said that we all breathe.
	Okay?
	Your show is not about the FBI assisting in the investigation.
	I mean, it could have been.
	Okay.
	I mean, anything's possible.
	It's so frustrating.
	It's so frustrating.
	It feels like I'm arguing with just a frustrating ex or something.
	Sure, or a 13-year-old boy at dinner asking them how school was gets fine, and they refuse to say anything else.
	Yeah, wow.
	Did you, like, study for any tests or anything?
	Could've.
	I don't remember.
	Maybe.
	There were books.
	Alright.
	Is your report card coming soon?
	They don't do those anymore, I don't think.
	Did you actually use that one, Jared?
	Yeah, I'm doing that all the time.
	That's an adult man.
	He's hitting his bosses with that when they ask for a transcript.
	I don't know.
	They don't do that, I don't think.
	A little bit of prodding about the May 9th follow-up episode.
	Do you remember on this May 9th show that you said there was some confusion over which was the real photo of the shooter?
	I vaguely recall, I believe, Gerald saying that and I believe that was mentioned.
	All right, let's make it clear.
	You have never told your audience that you showed an incorrect picture on your show.
	Injection form.
	Again, I don't recall.
	What you're saying sounds correct, that someone said there was confusion about the image.
	Right, but you know, one of the things that when...
	I first reached out to you on behalf of my client that I asked.
	I asked, could you make a retraction and tell your audience that that was false?
	And you've never done that, have you?
	I don't believe I've ever communicated with you before today.
	Well, I've certainly written you a letter.
	I don't believe we've ever communicated you and I before today.
	Huh.
	That's interesting.
	I've changed my address several times.
	That's probably why my report card didn't get here.
	Same move, yeah.
	He's not hiding that letter.
	He definitely read it, though, right?
	Of course.
	If you didn't address it to Gerald, I didn't get it.
	Did you send it to my home?
	Because I don't own a home.
	Yeah, Gerald owns my homes.
	I live with my dad.
	I'm going to put his name on it.
	He actually does.
	Oh, shit.
	He does live with his dad.
	I'm not supposed to know that, though.
	Wait, Papa lives there?
	It's more of him hiding his...
	He lives with Papa Crowder.
	We had a little bit of intel sent our way about his voter registration.
	Oh, yeah.
	Remember that?
	So we were able to track down the Our Intelligence Agencies Involved in Texas Mass Shooting live episode on this.
	Yeah, I uploaded it to a website a while ago.
	Really?
	Yeah.
	Here it is on this MGTOW.TV website.
	And, I mean, we did just kind of briefly scrub through the main story, so I don't know if you mentioned it up top, but in the meat of this, there's no mention about the myths.
	I don't know.
	He did say that the thing that he really dislikes is half-truths.
	Back to this letter that was delivered but not read most certainly 100%.
	No chance.
	Have you ever spoken before today?
	We've never spoken, no.
	Have we even?
	This whole odyssey began when I wrote a letter on May 22nd, 2023 addressed to you and your company that first informed you of all of this and then asked you to make a correction.
	Are you aware of that?
	Injection form.
	I'm just trying to...
	So you're saying that I responded to you directly?
	I don't think you ever...
	No, I don't think you ever responded to me.
	Okay.
	Injection form.
	So I don't believe you and I have ever communicated before today.
	Well, I mean, I would say sending you a letter makes it a communication.
	I would say that, yes.
	So what I'm asking you is...
	I don't even call myself reading a letter from you.
	I don't.
	Okay.
	And so, in other words, not making a retraction, that wasn't...
	Was that an intentional choice on your part?
	Objection form.
	No, because I don't recall anything that you're discussing, you sending me a letter.
	I don't recall that letter or that request being made from you.
	The only thing I recall is, again, my staff saying there was some confusion and that being addressed on the show.
	Right.
	And part of that show was, in fact, to express your doubts that these images of the shooter with neo-Nazi tattoos were real, right?
	I don't recall.
	Okay.
	Letter sounds like just...
	Letters aren't communication.
	No, no, no.
	Communication is words only.
	And they have to be spoken word.
	We don't believe in the post office.
	I mean, it's a service.
	And they have to come in the form of poetry slams.
	Steven is going to get his.
	And he's going to have a bit of nothing to say.
	Wow, dude.
	The return.
	The return.
	I love that.
	What's funny is it sounds almost like this attorney's like, dude, if you would have just issued a correction, we wouldn't be here.
	We wouldn't be here.
	We could have saved a lot of people time.
	Stephen could have enjoyed his seltzer.
	What?
	Were you trying to do me?
	Right there?
	Save a little bit of time!
	I guess the cadence was similar.
	I was slipping into it.
	Yeah, it got into your head a little.
	I'm not very good at slamming, okay?
	I'm a novice.
	I can teach you.
	Thanks, bud.
	You understand that your incorrect coverage of the Allen shooting, it can really mess up people's sense of reality.
	You get that?
	No.
	All right.
	What can?
	When it comes to the decision to show this photo, do you believe you did anything wrong to our client, Mauricio Garcia, who had nothing to do with this?
	I do believe that reporting on the image, which was incorrect, was wrong.
	Yeah, that was a mistake.
	And you understand that calling someone...
	Identifying someone as a neo-Nazi mass murderer when they're not is a damaging thing to do to them.
	Rejection form.
	Referring to someone who's clearly dead, known nationally, who was a white supremacist shooter.
	If it existed in a vacuum, sure, just accusing someone of being a neo-Nazi.
	Okay.
	In deciding to show My client's photo.
	You did not act as carefully as you should have.
	Right?
	I don't know the process that had taken place from the staff before it got to me, but no, there was a mistake made there.
	And we do our best to, you know, that's why the references are only publicly available, because mistakes are often made.
	You have an admonish button on the show for when mistakes are made live.
	It's a very important component of the show.
	Mistakes are often made, huh?
	It's one of the foundations.
	And admonish button is a very important part of the show?
	No.
	We only know about it because we've seen it, but he's only done it four times over the last year and a half that we've been talking about him almost here.
	Maybe a dozen per season, I guess.
	Like once a month.
	Mostly sarcastic.
	His unwillingness to admit that lying during his program affects the interpretation of reality to the viewers should be disqualifying as a broadcaster.
	Yeah, right.
	Stephen, does your show impact people in any way?
	Define impact.
	Does it hit them?
	No.
	He would argue that he's...
	God.
	It's just, it's the most hypocritical approach to his importance.
	Like, I get it.
	He's being deposed.
	Sure.
	So he's not going to be like, yeah, I can see how that would ruin someone's reputation and, you know, cause him mental anguish.
	We are the most important program.
	Ever.
	We are the most streamed political...
	A commentary channel during the election debates.
	Is that what they claim?
	I think so.
	I think they broke streaming records during the debates or during the election livestream, remember, of the century?
	Yeah, yeah.
	But also, we don't affect anyone's reality when we lie.
	Yeah, no, no, it's fine.
	It's very frustrating.
	I'll say that when we were listening to that clip of him speaking from the show, it stressed me out how different he is.
	Yeah, he even did that thing in the last clip that we heard where he said, he's like, Like this?
	I don't even know how he...
	I don't know what words he used, but it was just sort of the tone of his...
	You're obtusifying right now.
	Which, obtusify merch coming soon.
	We'll see.
	I don't know about that.
	We have a merch button on AudioWool's website.
	Oh, is that right?
	Oh, wow.
	That's kind of great.
	I didn't know that we had a website for AudioWool.
	Yeah.
	Is it using AudioWool.co?
	.com.
	Oh.
	I guess I should forward.co to.com then.
	Yeah.
	That's why not.
	Okay.
	A little business chat.
	No big deal.
	I have to go to bed.
	We have one more clip.
	Oh, yeah.
	The staff and whatever.
	Processes took place, were not performed correctly, and a mistake was made.
	And you're responsible for making sure those processes are in place.
	It's your business, right?
	Rejection form.
	Stephen admits everything.
	I do my best.
	It's a company of around 30-something people.
	Because that's always in flux.
	Are you saying that like it's a big company?
	No, I'm saying that I can't be doing every job at all times.
	And we have practices or, you know, methods of approaching stories that usually do a very good job, actually, as far as the track record.
	And if they don't, the references are publicly available as a fail-safe because we believe in transparency.
	And, you know, mistakes definitely can be made.
	And in this case, the mistake was definitely made.
	You are the one responsible for creating and enforcing the policies and requirements for your talk show.
	No.
	I'm confused.
	If you don't think you have any responsibility to run your business in a way That has policies in place to safeguard and guard against false information?
	That's not what I said.
	Well, so you are responsible for doing those things, for making sure that those policies are in place.
	You said enforcing the policies.
	Right.
	I would hope so, right?
	I mean, well, actually, that's an interesting thing you bring up.
	Was anybody fired for this?
	Injection point.
	I don't recall.
	I know there are people who no longer work with the company who worked in that department.
	I don't recall if it would have been this incident.
	But there's turnover with things like that all the time.
	But sitting here today, do you think you took any disciplinary action against anybody for this?
	Objection form.
	Are you asking Stephen or Lauder with Crowder?
	I would assume that he would have to do it.
	I mean, he's Stephen Crowder of Lauder with Crowder, right?
	No, actually, I'm not in charge of hiring her.
	Terminating employees.
	Okay.
	Do you have policies in place for that?
	Objection form.
	I believe there are policies in place for that.
	As far as hiring and terminating.
	Okay.
	And pursuant to those policies of your company, was anybody fired or terminated or disciplined in any way for this?
	Again, I don't recall.
	I wouldn't have been the one terminating anybody.
	The answer is no.
	Yeah.
	I mean...
	Probably.
	Very likely.
	Sure, yeah.
	If there was any actual...
	Like, substantive action that they could take to show that they've rectified it?
	Mm-hmm.
	Yeah.
	He would know.
	If someone was reprimanded for the content that was showed and the mistake that was made in that episode, I think he would know.
	I think so, yeah.
	But people are hired and fired all the time.
	All the time.
	You know what I mean?
	Sometimes I put my dick on their shoulder and they just don't deal with it well.
	It's totally normal churn in the workplace.
	Yeah.
	We call it, you know, churning and turning and burning.
	It's like I invite them to join the mug club, but they end up joining the gum club when I ask them, what does this look like?
	I sat in some gum and it's just my ball sack I'm holding.
	Yeah, he pulls his balls through the zipper to fly up his pants.
	I guarantee you he's the kind of guy who did that to a couple kids in 7th grade, right?
	And then accidentally zipped his sack in his pants.
	On purpose one time.
	I was watching a lot of Jackass, I guess.
	I've never shown my balls to anybody except for a sexual interest.
	Drop, drop!
	This guy in high school kept showing me his balls.
	I know.
	You told me about this.
	Yeah.
	I know his name and everything, but I'm not going to say it right.
	Yeah.
	He is a sports podcaster.
	Wow.
	Yeah.
	Let's get him on the show.
	So I can confront him.
	Let's break it down.
	Yeah.
	I'm not going to confront him.
	You might have access to one of those, like, the play-by-play sort of pens, you know what I mean?
	30-something employees.
	I really, really, really loved the jab.
	You think that's a big company?
	Is this like a big company?
	You think that's big?
	It's a tiny little baby bitch company.
	Okay, shoves him a little bit.
	He shoves the computer.
	I think he also is kind of implying that you have a responsibility.
	If you have this large audience, maybe someone should be in a position where they should be doing fact-checking.
	Totally.
	You know, catching these things before it becomes a large problem.
	Or you should have policies in place.
	To correct appropriately without a sarcastic admonish button.
	Yeah.
	He's just fucking around.
	And truly, that's all I can handle this week.
	If you disagree, feel free to convince us otherwise.
	Pick up a convince us otherwise hat at Audiowool.com.
	Convince me otherwise.
	Yeah, thank you.
	Audiowool.com.
	And ignore the broken links.
	We'll fix them later.
	We're working on it.
	There's a lot going on.
	The deposition is in the bag.
	Nice.
	There is, however, one other deposition.
	Oh, there is?
	That we have not talked about.
	I think we should probably...
	Cover in maybe like a, just a stream of conscious way.
	Yeah, later.
	At shrug.club.
	Right now.
	Of Gerald Morgan.
	Yeah, Gerald.
	Yeah, CEO of Ladder with Crowder.
	Corporate representative, I should say.
	Here's what I'll say about Jared.
	I didn't watch his deposition.
	I mean, I like.
	Gerald.
	Jared's sick.
	Oh, yeah.
	I did a quick just like.
	I watched the whole thing.
	I would expect from my little blurbs I saw is that he would be less frustrating and more just like direct and like, you know, yes, no.
	Yes.
	No.
	I don't recall.
	That's what I would get from that.
	I mean, he...
	Unless he asks about Juan Vino, then they'd be like, he'd tell him about it.
	I think Gerald is afraid of authority.
	He's the kind of guy who is gonna...
	A worm.
	Yeah, he's a worm.
	Dude, he's a fucking worm, dude.
	He's oftentimes the grossest, most shocking, uninhibited character on the program, but only on the program because everywhere else in the world he realizes that he is the minority.
	Yeah, he's got a mask for sure.
	I think he recognizes the gravity of a deposition as well.
	Sure, yeah.
	And I don't think Stephen does.
	Mark, great work.
	Great work.
	I don't know the full details of how the case was resolved.
	But according to the description on the law firm's YouTube page, it does seem that they have reached a settlement.
	That information I can't find as public as it comes to us.
	I imagine I will be reporting any additional context or information that we discover.
	Yeah.
	But I hope he did get a couple Ford Raptors.
	At least a couple.
	A couple.
	At least a couple.
	He's got to have a fleet of Ford Raptors for sure.
	Hell yeah.
	I want to hook them together by the trailer hitches and then drive them away from each other.
	Yeah, do tug wars.
	Yes.
	I want to just set them all in line like a snake.
	Do we have any final thoughts on this before we close the book?
	I mean, clearly it's business as usual at Louder with Crowder right now.
	It's been a whole week of...
	You know, I don't know if I can handle a regular episode of Steven Crowder with all the shit going on with Trump's campaign that's been two weeks old.
	Yeah, it's weird how that happens.
	It feels like it's been the longest two weeks of my entire life.
	You don't want to...
	Listen to an episode about Trump's hit list growing with USA, Department of Education, CIA in Gaza.
	Gaza?
	Ooh, I'd love to hear his take on the trans comic book.
	Of course, and why Trump will win the global trade war.
	Oh man, I hate that trade war bullshit so much.
	Yeah, next week we're returning.
	Wake me up when Linda McMahon guest stars in third year.
	They're gonna lower her down from the ceiling.
	It's gonna be so cool.
	What if she accidentally slips like that one guy?
	Owen?
	Hart?
	Lands on the metal stairs, yeah.
	Yeah, well, yeah.
	That's true, they did.
	God, heavy stuff.
	Murdered his ass.
	Rate and review us on Apple Podcasts.
	Yeah, we'll call you a piece of shit on the air.
	Huge thanks again to Purple People Leader.
	You piece of shit.
	Nice.
	And Dr. Sayer.
	What a piece of shit.
	And Sarah W. Dr. Sayer, Dr. Sayer.
	Piece of shit.
	Find us on Twitter, at Dan Crowder.
	We're not really there, but we are at Blue Sky.
	It's the same thing, at Dan Crowder.
	Louderwithcrowder.net, louderthancrowder.com, shrug.club.
	And shrug.com.
	Go give those guys a listen, I guess.
	Why not?
	Until next time, I'm Byron.
	I'm Dennis.
	And I'm Jared.
	I hopefully see you guys next time.
	I hope so.
	Take robots.

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