Lionel Nation questions why Ben Shapiro retains his Daily Wire position despite widespread criticism of his grating, machine-like delivery and lack of likability compared to peers like Candace Owens or Theo Vaughn. He argues that Shapiro's content fails to connect on complex issues like the Middle East conflict, noting the irony of the network attacking Owens while relying on an uncharismatic figure. Ultimately, the discussion suggests that successful persuasion requires warmth and charm, implying Shapiro's employment defies standard media logic where audience resonance dictates retention. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
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Why Ben Shapiro Stays Employed00:14:06
Simple question, nothing deep.
Why is Ben Shapiro employed anywhere?
Who says, now that's a spokesman?
That's the guy that brings in young people.
He inspires so much love and respect.
He's warm.
There's a connectability.
He really explains whatever his cause is so, so well.
Who says this?
It's the same people who say, hey, that Erica Kirk, she's good.
Boy, she's just doing gangbusters.
I mean, everybody loves her.
She's just, it's a Cinderella story.
That's my point.
It really has nothing to do with anything.
It's just my curiosity.
What does this guy have to do?
Microwave a kitten in real time before people say, all right, that's enough.
What?
Why Ben Shapiro is still employed anywhere when everyone finds him incredibly, irredeemably annoying?
I will never know.
People hear him speak.
And they roll their eyes.
He speaks with this weird kind of rapidity.
Sometimes he speaks, I'm thinking, is my phone on one and a half or two?
Why is that?
Why does that connote?
Does that indicate?
Does that provide you a sense of, ah, that's an intelligent person?
Well, you don't speak that quickly unless you know what you're talking about.
Wrong.
It's to slough over or to kind of spackle over the fact that what he's saying is riddled with vapidity.
He speaks so rapidly.
Rapidly, it sounds like he's spitting out words like some kind of a machine, like a burp gun or something.
His voice, and by the way, as someone who was once described as Curly Howard on Benzedrine, I can't talk about his voice, but it's the style.
You can speak in any way, but convey and connote and connect with warmth, likeability.
It just, he gets on your nerves after 10 seconds.
And a lot of people on YouTube and X, Say exactly the same thing.
They call him annoying.
So, why is he still?
Who exactly is he working for?
Is he a spokesperson or is he there to remind people of what they already believe?
Is he speaking to the home team?
See, they say he's a colossal failure as a spokesperson and for good reasons.
But here he is, still on the job, making videos, getting paid, where other people are being laid off.
It makes no sense.
And it makes no sense to most people.
So the big question is why does he still have a job?
Who keeps paying him?
Does he own somebody?
Does he have pictures of some big shot with a duck or a barn owl or some?
I mean, I don't understand it.
Why would anyone want this fella to speak for anything regarding their particular position?
First off, almost everybody agrees his style is completely annoying.
That's true.
And if you watch any clip, watch any particular segment, He jumps from one point to another.
And the part which is the most interesting and the most difficult to understand is the fact that if you're trying to convey an idea, especially when you're talking about something which right now is under attack, he's got a very, very, I think, I think his position is, I think, I mean, I'm assuming that it is to explain certain aspects of the conditions of the Middle East in a way that recruits people to say, hey, I never thought of that, or I'm going to give this idea a thought,
or I'm going to consider.
What this fellow has to say because he's connecting with me and young people too, and nobody understands this.
What is his point?
His attacks on Candace.
Listen, I have a very simple rule that others should abide by.
Ask yourself what are you going to gain by attacking Candace Owens?
Ignore her if that's what you really want to do.
I talk about this a lot in this wonderful scene, and it's true.
In the first Jack Reacher movie or whatever it was with Tom Cruise, there's this one scene where, you've heard me say this, but I use this line all the time.
Somebody decides to take him outside to beat him up or something, four or five guys.
And Tom Cruise, of course, is about to basically smash his gonads, literally kick this guy's testicles into pudding.
But before he does it and before he commences to paralyze this schmuck, he turns to him and says, Remember, you wanted this.
And that's my thing with the Daily Wire.
Remember, you wanted this.
Why are you going after Candace Omas?
Why are you resurrecting old, first of all, resurrecting old.
Videos and clips from her and perfusing and extravasating and flooding the media platforms with more of your avowed enemy.
Why are you giving your enemy any amount of time?
It's like lawyers who insist upon cross examining the other side's witness and giving them more airtime with the jury.
I don't understand it.
Ignore her.
What is your point?
Anybody would think that what you need to do is you need somebody to soft soap it.
What are you trying to do?
Are you trying to?
Convey or connote or espouse a particular position.
Okay.
If you want to do it, you might want to ease into it.
You might see somebody who, frankly, is appealing.
And by the way, we're not talking about looks or pulchritude or masculinity or eyebrow, you know, whatever that is.
We're not talking about that.
We're talking about somebody who says, you know what, I kind of like that guy.
Or, hey, there's that guy.
Hey, that's what you want.
Hey, Candace, at her best.
We'll always giggle.
She'll always let you know, like, hey, listen, this is important, but don't.
You know, we're not, we're not, we're winning.
There's no reason for us to get upset about it.
Let's at least laugh about it.
Let's, let's be what we can regarding this.
Let's, you know what I mean?
Let's, let's focus accordingly.
Okay, great.
He doesn't do that.
None of these folks do that.
None of them.
These are the same people who go on Piers Morgan, which is another story.
What, what, why anybody is on Piers Morgan, I have other than just pure.
Numbers of people watching.
I think they're watching for the wrong reason, Pierce, but I don't understand what he's doing.
The same thing goes for Erica Kirk.
Erica Kirk, she doesn't understand.
She's universally considered a joke.
I'm sorry to tell you.
If you didn't know this, I don't know what to tell you.
I can't help you.
Everything about her creeps people out.
This disingenuous, you've heard me say this.
All you have to do is watch her for five seconds.
Anyone who can watch her right now, Or right away, we'll realize, oh my God, oh my God.
So, this is where we are right now.
This is a battle.
Look, Candace has won more people.
Tucker, that's another story.
One of the reasons is that they are not grating, they're nice.
You first have to be able to withstand it.
It's like one of the reasons why they take medicine for kids and they flavor it, is if nobody's going to swallow it.
You're not going to get better.
So they'll make it cherry flavored, or they'll try to take this stuff and make it taste pretty good.
You start with the flavor.
What's Ben's flavor?
I don't know.
Industrial Newark sewer water after a rain?
I have no idea what that means, but it's just.
What?
What?
What are they trying to do?
What is the message?
I don't understand that.
There's a fellow, another one too, I've got to mention.
I'm not even sure what he stands for.
I've never spent a lot of time, but in terms of probably the most grading style, is this fella named Destiny.
You got me there.
Again, another fast talker.
You know, one of the things, again, life is about if people have to like you.
And the idea that there has been anybody successful on TV or radio or as a spokesperson that wasn't liked, that didn't connect somehow.
You know, when you're talking to somebody, let me just give you, Ben, if it matters.
You're talking to Americans who barely understand the Kentucky Derby, much less thousands of years of Middle East conflict.
So you have to start off kind of with a rudimentary analogy.
Let me give you an example.
Let me give you an example which I've heard and people believe.
In a similar situation, there's the issue of Russia in Ukraine.
Nobody's understood that one.
Of course, people have believed this Boris Badinov and Natasha ideology where somehow Putin is this irrepressible, whatever he is.
Okay.
And the interesting part about it, more than anything else, the interesting part is that Putin one time said, Look.
And by the way, his supporters or his advocates said, Look.
What would you do if, let's say, China decided to set up shop on our border, on, you know, outside of Brownsville or whatever the geography is?
What do you think we would do?
And what do you think Americans would ask the president to do if that were the case?
What do you think?
What do you think?
And people say, oh.
That only can be thought about if the person who's giving that analogy or giving that particular perspective is not so immediately loathsome that you change the channel.
I don't care what this guy is.
That's the part.
Is it possible for Ben to be nicer?
Maybe.
I don't know.
I don't know.
It's this.
Remember, maybe it's the lawyer in me.
You're trying to persuade.
You're not trying to.
You don't tell a jury.
Let me tell you something.
If you find this guy not guilty, you're not good.
You want to persuade people.
You want them to say, you know what?
You make a good point.
You know what?
You're right about that.
You know, I never thought about, hey, I like that guy.
I like that guy.
One of the best things ever, best examples.
I know you're going to think, what?
But this young man, I marvel at him.
Theo Vaughn.
He is so likable.
And he has this impish kind of nice guy, fun.
He could say the most vile things.
Because again, he could talk about vivisection or microwaving kittens or something that's just horrible.
But he could maybe sell it because, first, you don't recoil from his very being, which always helps tremendously.
It's a phenomenal thing.
It's incredible.
It's a fascinating, fascinating, fascinating way.
And I don't understand it.
And by the way, while we're on the subject, we have to go back.
The idea is Erica Kirk, I've talked about her to the point, she blows my mind.
If you had to actually have, if you wanted to have a movie or produce a movie or whatever, a movie, and you wanted an actress really to act, to be her, to be she, I guess you would say, you would need someone who, maybe Faye Dunaway in Mommy Dearest or The Eyes, the.
Who would it be?
Very few people can bring out this crazy eyes, these.
You know, the eyes of maybe, you know, I keep thinking it's Gloria Swanson in Sunset Boulevard, you know, Norman Desmond or something.
I don't know.
You've, I mean, right off the bat, people say, Who is this?
Who is this woman with the eyes?
They don't even realize that.
Eyes matter, looks matter, visage, countenance, affect, the way you, the way somebody just comes across.
The way you say, Oh, I don't know.
There was this guy, you don't remember this, but ask your parents.
It was Grape Nuts guy, Yule Gibbons.
He used to be on, Johnny Carson mentioned him sometimes.
And he said, Do you ever eat a hickory nut?
No.
Or a pine nut or some kind of nut.
Something you would never eat.
You know, just grape nuts.
It reminds me of a hickory nut or some kind of thing.
I don't know if I want this.
But he was like, Oh, that's Yule Gibbons.
That's that guy.
There's that guy.
Who is he?
I don't know.
What is he?
I don't know.
I like him.
There are people, Theo Vaughn's like that.
What is Theo Vaughn saying?
Who cares?
I don't even know.
But he's nice.
The Grape Nuts Analogy00:05:18
Think about it.
All the people, there's something, there has to be a moment where you say, I like him.
Take anybody, anybody who's popular.
Alex Jones, who, by the way, can go from you, you, you.
There's a lot that works.
He's not giddy, but he's interesting and fascinating.
And there's parts of it where you say, you don't want to, this guy's just interesting.
Ben Shapiro's not interesting.
He's not interesting, he's not likable.
He's not compelling.
He's not soothing.
You don't even want to give the guy a break.
He comes across like so obnoxious.
He's noxious.
He's noisome.
I don't know what the word is.
It's incredible.
He's the opposite of anodyne.
He's bitter, sour.
There's this word in West Hapa, Cuba Jews, Pesau or Pesau, they'll say, bitter.
You're always in this.
He's never, never, never.
Nobody's lured by him.
So while we talk about, and by the way, I never know those people at Daily Wire who lost their jobs.
This is serious stuff.
This is how they make their mortgage and their rent and their families.
And that's, I don't like people laughing.
No, they're just doing their job.
Same thing when we hear about CNN's going on this, the liberal media is collapsing.
Well, those people need work.
They should be made to suffer.
Granted, they may share ideologically what he's saying, but this isn't some weird kind of employment schadenfreude that I'm trying to convey.
What I'm trying to tell you is it's just one of these marvelous things.
I don't understand.
What conveyed you or compelled you to do this?
There was a time, again, years ago, where somebody said, We're going to change the formula of Coke.
What?
New Coke.
What?
What?
Why?
I don't know.
Pepsi Clear.
They actually said, let's have Pepsi, but remove all the caramel coloring.
Why?
I don't know.
People sometimes don't really get it.
I got to tell you this story, which is, I think, one of the funniest things, just as an analogy.
And I saw this and I was there.
Years ago, I was with WABC when it was at its zenith.
I mean, it was, but it was a different time.
Rush Limbaugh was there, Bob Grant.
It was a different time.
This was in the late, no, the early 90s.
Anyway, so it was always called 77 WABC.
Since time immemorial, 77 WABC.
Everybody, cousin Brucey, Don Ingram, they were raised.
This 77, 77, 77, it's what you called it.
A genius came along and said, Wait a minute, we're going to change that to 770.
Why?
Well, because apparently you don't know this.
You see, if you look at the digital, this is big, the radio, the digital radios, it says 770.
It doesn't say 77.
Okay.
So I was in a meeting, being the perennial smartass, but always asking good questions.
Excuse me, am I asking a question?
Yes.
And the whole staff is there, like, I said, Are you going to tell people about this change, let's say on billboard and TV?
And they said, No.
So let me get this straight.
Whenever I say, Let me get this straight, that's one of the best cross examination tools.
Let me get this straight.
You saying you weren't there at the time of the robbery?
Let me get this straight.
It's not a good thing.
Okay, anyway, so let me get this straight.
The people who have already found this radio station, You're telling them.
You're going to say, hey, hey, numb nuts, guess what?
You know the station that you think you're listening to, which is 77?
No, it's 77.
I said, you call it 43 for all you want.
They've already found it.
Why?
Anyway, anyway, anyway, it's like putting the sign of your restaurant inside your restaurant.
This is what I think about with Ben.
Who?
You think somebody would show up and say, all right, that's it.
Ben, do me a favor.
Sell.
You know, herpes medication or something because this ain't working.
You're trying to help our cause.
I don't even know what the hell our cause is from listening to you because you piss everybody off.
Do you know what it's like when, and maybe because of it's all of this internecine fighting, when people are applauding that the Daily Wire is out of business?
I mean, this is not good when huge swaths of humanity say, yay!
So, this is one of those things.
And while we're on this subject, I've got to tell you right now.
Same thing goes for Erica Kirk.
Sell the Herpes Medication00:01:47
What are you doing?
It goes to show, and these two children, these little boys on the Charlie Kirk show who sit around me, Wouldn't it be nice if maybe you talked about, oh, I don't know, maybe something that you do at, you know, Turning Point USA, TP USA, something that you've done?
Maybe you think that might be a good idea?
Just saying, just saying.
My friends, it's one of those things which I will never, ever, ever understand.
It goes to show you the insanity of this.
None of this makes any sense.
Now, you know what you could do for me after speaking for 20 minutes?
Okay?
Which is what I do.
First, like this video.
I know, I know, I know.
I think telling me this, it really makes a difference because people say, ooh.
And then they send the message out to people around the world.
That's number one.
Number two, hit that little bell, that little notifier so you're.
Made aware of new videos and live streaming.
And subscribe to the channel, to Lionel Nation.
Subscribe right here, subscribe.
I know, maybe you have, maybe you haven't, but it's really important because I want to send the message of truth and hope.
And plus, I know you like me.
You really like me, like Sally Fields does, said famously.
In any event, that's that.
It's a very simple concept.
I thank you for your time.
And now I ask you very simply to comment as you see fit.
And by the way, look at the questions I have for you the five questions, answer them.