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April 1, 2025 - Lionel Nation

01:14:26

Jim Norton MARRIES Transgender Model Half His Age—PR Stunt or True Love?

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	I love moral theoretical questions, or questions that appear to be moral, but I don't know if they're moral or not.
	And we always love to, when I say we, love to believe that everything is clear-cut, open and shut, very, very open.
	Would they do this?
	One of my favorite questions is a man who says, I would never cheat on my wife.
	And you say, that's great.
	That's great.
	Well, I've married my wife.
	We've been together for 48 years.
	Well, that's terrific, Johnny.
	That's great.
	Even though your name's not Johnny.
	John, how many times have you been propositioned?
	What?
	How many times have you been propositioned in the course?
	You look like a flounder.
	How many times?
	Well, really none.
	So it's pretty easy for you, and you probably wouldn't do this.
	Don't get me wrong, Johnny.
	Don't get me wrong.
	You probably wouldn't do that ever.
	But imagine you are a rock star.
	You're a TV star.
	You're just a real handsome guy, and you're hit on all the time.
	Do you think maybe your morality, Not that it would change, but do you think that you'd find yourself having to think about something which now you never think about?
	Because it never happens.
	That's like me saying, I would never kill an immediate member of my wife's family.
	Well, that's easy for me to say.
	I probably wouldn't.
	I can probably go on the record now.
	But it's ridiculous.
	It's not going to happen.
	I would never set an orphanage on fire.
	I hope not, but it's not going to...
	So people love to always think that they're this moral, and it's true, they are for the most part, but they talk about systems and things that never happen.
	You don't know.
	For most people, in most walks of life, it is a very None of this stuff ever happens.
	You grow up.
	You find the love of your life.
	You hope.
	You get married.
	You live happily ever after.
	You're a man.
	She's a woman.
	Vice versa.
	You have kids.
	Boys or girls.
	That's it.
	And that's it.
	And that's as far as it goes.
	You don't know a transgender.
	You don't even know gay people.
	That's a world that is far away.
	You know nothing about it.
	And then one day you find out that you have fallen in love and you have this relationship and maybe it's on the phone or maybe it's this and maybe you've gone out to have lunch and you're falling in love and you have fallen in love with this woman.
	You are, I mean, you are ready to, you just, I mean, it's, and it's been very, very cordial, very, nothing, nothing intimate.
	And you fall in love.
	And you're on the phone and you share things and you think, oh my God, this is the most incredible thing in the world.
	It's like we were, it's like this was meant to be.
	And all you do is you think of her and you're talking to her and you send her notes and then, and you're, you're in love.
	You haven't done anything yet, which maybe even makes it more, which I think people should.
	Sometimes there's a lot to be said for people who forego that.
	Oftentimes the passion and the lust does not allow that.
	But in any event.
	And then for whatever it's worth this woman tells you I gotta tell you something.
	What?
	Something about my past so to speak.
	Okay, that's alright.
	We've all got skeletons.
	Well, this is a little different.
	What do you mean?
	Well I have a medical condition.
	Well, that's okay.
	We can get past that.
	Well, let me finish.
	It's kind of unique, but not really.
	I don't know if it's medical or maybe it's social.
	I don't know if it's psychiatric.
	I really don't know.
	Well, what is it?
	Well, I was born a man.
	What?
	I was born a man.
	I haven't shown you anything, but I have a complete genitalia of a man.
	You?
	Uh-huh.
	But you seem so feminine.
	I know.
	It's weird, isn't it?
	But, as you will or maybe not see after this, I am 100% man.
	Now let me ask you something.
	Does the person not love this person anymore?
	Is that it?
	Or maybe they're so angry.
	Maybe they feel like, you set me up.
	You set me up.
	Or, would it not matter?
	Or, would you what?
	Now if you think, That you can answer a question immediately, yes or no, that you don't live in my world.
	Because this is so intellectually tantalizing that even if you would say, I'm not going to...
	It's like you fall in love with somebody who's married.
	Happens all the time.
	You can get out of love real quick.
	You say, sorry, that ain't going to work.
	Sorry, that love is...
	Or sometimes it doesn't.
	Sometimes you'll fall in love with somebody who's married and you say, maybe you'll become the mistress.
	You never know.
	But the point of what I'm saying is this is so intellectually tantalizing because of the issues.
	And most people will not be able to handle it.
	They'll make a joke about it.
	They'll move on.
	Because when it comes to think, cerebration, intellectual, mentation, heavy lifting, parsing.
	Thinking about, what about this?
	What about that?
	Kind of almost doing like an introspective Socratic method.
	People can't do it.
	Because it confounds them.
	Because to them, thinking is a chore.
	I've got a lot to say about this.
	Today we're going to be talking about Jim Norton and his wife, Vicky.
	Or Nikki.
	Nikki.
	Who is a transgender.
	And he is not.
	And they're on every talk show there is.
	Many people are saying, oh, this is just a publicity stunt.
	I don't know.
	But I want to discuss and view and explore the stories behind this, the facts behind this.
	But please, do me a favor.
	If this is not for you, I will not be offended.
	Go someplace else.
	This might not be for you.
	There might be a nice...
	You know, wrestling channel.
	Or maybe you can watch a mafia channel.
	Like, hey, you can learn about Jimmy the Gent Burke for the millionth time.
	This is only for people who love the raw fun of thought.
	Not morality.
	Thought.
	Exploring it.
	The behavior.
	The situational complexity.
	But first, this.
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	Now my friends, again, I don't want to sound kind of highfalutin here.
	By the way, I got a brand new video of this Amber Ruffin.
	Did you hear about her?
	She is the unfunny comedian or comedian.
	As we used to say in the old days, who was disinvited or dropped from the White House Correspondents' Center because she thought she would lay all that woke nonsense on people for reasons that I just don't understand.
	So anyway, I put this video up.
	Please watch it.
	It's a barn burner.
	Now, let me go back to what I'm saying.
	I know this sounds kind of convoluted, but I mean this.
	I love these situational stories.
	One of my favorites, people think I might be an urban legend.
	I don't know.
	But I'll tell you the story.
	Here is a way it was explained to me by a bartender who I think is completely full of it, but maybe there's something to it.
	Father, ex-cop, retired.
	His son says, I've been dating this woman, that's great, and finally he's going to meet her.
	Okay, think about getting married.
	That's great, son.
	The son brings the daughter over.
	Daughter meets the family.
	Everybody's groovy.
	Everybody's fine.
	The father's asking a question.
	He's like, so where are you from?
	Yeah.
	What do your parents do?
	Who are your parents?
	Oh, okay.
	Because I'm from, you know, like a New York cop.
	I know a lot of people.
	And he talks to the son.
	He says, I've got kind of bad news to tell you.
	The woman you're going to marry, I know her mother.
	I had an affair with her years ago.
	Actually, it was before I met your mother, or maybe not, whatever the story was.
	I think that's your sister.
	I think that's your half-sister.
	Because she had a child that I found out later on, and she wanted to raise it without me.
	She didn't want to put me under the threat of child Care or child support.
	But I see that.
	You notice something too?
	You see what she's got?
	Yeah.
	She has a cleft chin.
	Yeah, you're right.
	That's autosomal.
	So do I. I'll bet you her father doesn't.
	Whatever it is.
	Now, I don't know what you can do.
	The law is not going to allow a legal, I don't believe a half-sister, unless you're in Arkansas or something.
	But you've already fallen in love.
	What are you supposed to do?
	You say goodbye.
	Would you negotiate?
	Would you say, okay, look, we just won't have children.
	We won't get married.
	We won't get married.
	We won't get married and we won't have children.
	So there's never any kind of genetic problem.
	But I love her.
	The mind has no interest in the law.
	The soul has no interest in...
	Woody Allen...
	Theoretically fell in love with his adopted daughter, Sunyi Previn, right?
	Mia Farrow.
	I think he adopted her.
	It's not his.
	They're not legally through consanguinity.
	And they marry.
	Is that?
	It might be situationally weird for you to end up marrying a girl that you've known.
	Who is almost like your daughter that you've known.
	That might be psychologically weird.
	It's not illegal.
	So what I'm telling you, and what people do not understand is they want to get the quick answer.
	They don't see that life is gray.
	Life sometimes is, oh, that's an interesting thing.
	That's kind of wild.
	So this story involves this fellow who's a comedian, Jim Norton.
	For the record, I've met Jim, I think, once, twice maybe.
	I know he's a great friend of Anthony Cumia.
	I'm not that familiar with his work.
	I don't care what his work is.
	It doesn't even matter.
	That's not the point of this.
	But he has married a transgender named Nikki.
	And this is a love story.
	Or is it?
	Or is it?
	Do you think it is?
	So, it's weird because when you talk about this, you know, in this crazy, weird, weird, strange world of, you know, celebrity relationships and all that kind of nonsense.
	It's strange how this thing works.
	We got older and younger.
	I was listening before to Charlie Chaplin and Una.
	It's a wonderful relationship.
	They were together until he died.
	There was like a 35-year difference.
	Things are different sometimes.
	He had his issues, but he loved her.
	It wasn't against the law, but some people think it's strange.
	Sometimes we look at things from the point of view of being vicarious and being voyeuristic.
	So there's a comedian, I think he's 56, Jim Norton, and he met his transgender wife, who's 27, I believe, or something along that.
	Don't hold me to it.
	And it ignited this firestorm of controversy and debate and speculation, which Jim Norton loves.
	I think, and so does she.
	Loves it.
	Loves it.
	She's got a great attitude about it.
	I was always thinking, okay, that's interesting.
	And then I kept listening to it.
	I'm thinking, what is all this concern?
	So the couple who apparently tied the proverbial knot, in October of 2023, they become, in essence, a lightning rod for discussions about love and identity and age gaps and authenticity and all this other stuff in the public eye and blah, blah, blah.
	So, They've been asking no questions about, what about Nikki's transition?
	What about the idea that this is some kind of a publicity stunt?
	You know, their marriage has left fans and critics and media outlets abuzz.
	And I'm thinking to myself, do you care about this?
	Okay, I'll work with it.
	I think it's more of a fun intellectual pursuit, just to think about this.
	What if?
	It's my background.
	This is classic law school.
	This is Socratic method.
	Okay, let's say we broke into the house in the daytime.
	And the person who broke in had a key.
	And we're like, well, what about this?
	We're always changing.
	Okay, what about this?
	What if Nikki didn't have surgery?
	Does she have her complete genitalia?
	Okay, does that matter?
	So are they intimate?
	So when Jim...
	Involves an intimacy.
	Is that intimacy with a man?
	Or intimacy with a woman?
	Or does it matter?
	And does that make him gay?
	And if it does, so what?
	But isn't that it?
	Or should it be turned off?
	That's what's interesting.
	And what if Jim Norton could say, no, I've never, if he says this, do you believe it?
	No, I've never had been with a man.
	But this is a very special case.
	I'm not attracted to men.
	I'm attracted to Nikki, who happens to have.
	Who happens to have.
	And that's the issue.
	Does she happen to have?
	Oops.
	Did you ever hear somebody with a third nipple?
	Very common.
	I think Marilyn Monroe had an extra toe, if I recall correctly.
	She hasn't.
	Well, she hasn't.
	Not only extra.
	A different.
	So here's the full story, and I think this is interesting.
	And again, remember, listen, I know this isn't for everybody, so please, you don't have to be a part of it.
	You don't have to.
	Raul says, movie, some like it hot, nobody's perfect.
	There you go.
	There you go.
	Nobody's perfect indeed.
	Thank you, my friend.
	So, apparently, the story goes from comedy clubs to this transatlantic romance.
	The story is as best as I can understand.
	Jim Norton, who is a veteran stand-up comedian, radio personality, firebrand, lightning ring, has long been a fixture in the entertainment world.
	I believe he's from Bayonne.
	I believe he's from Bayonne in 1968, which is good.
	Remember the Bayonne Bleeder, Chuck Wepner?
	He rose to fame as the third Mike.
	I believe on the show Opie and Anthony from 2001 to 2014, known for his disgusting, vile, degenerative, degenerate, self-deprecating, raw, ribald, concupiscent humor, candid discussions of taboo topics and illegal activities, everything from frottage to undinism.
	To Uralagnia, you name it.
	Including his fascination with transgender women.
	Now let's stop a bit.
	You can sit there and say transgender women or transgender men.
	So, Jim, you love your wife?
	Yes, I do.
	And she has a full set, right?
	Okay.
	Now, if she decides, you know, I'm tired of this being a woman, I'm going to go back to looking more like a man, would you still love her?
	Yeah.
	So it's not the transgender, is it?
	Is that an excuse?
	Is that an excuse that allows you to pursue something that you would not be able to pursue before, but you're doing it now because this allows you the in?
	You can say, oh, I'm not gay.
	It's just only in this situation.
	Oh, I have had no ideations about being with a man, except in this particular situation, because I'm not really with a man, I'm with a woman who happens to have this extra See what I mean?
	It's like an excuse.
	Is that it?
	Some people have a big problem with that.
	Now let me also stop and tell you, and listen to me right now, nothing is black and white.
	For the most part, again, most people, most people, most of us say, no, we've been straight our lives and...
	It's never really come up, and haven't really thought about it, and nope, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I hate to break it to you, but no, I'm not, this isn't that big of a deal.
	No, sorry, I can't say I've thought about it, can't say I've imagined it, can't really say anything about this.
	This has not come up in my life.
	That's like I think most of us.
	Most of us, I don't know.
	So, we're very, very, but that aside, you would be surprised what people like, what people think, what people in the back of their minds, and it may have never come up.
	That's why I've always believed in making sure that thought crimes are never expressed.
	You are allowed to think anything you want.
	If we can go into the deep, darkest recesses of your sordid and demented mind, I'll bet you, you've thought about stuff.
	They say, well, that's weird.
	But it will never happen.
	So you think whatever you want.
	But deep down inside, you know, okay.
	I remember one time there was a study or I was going to do a discussion about fetish versus preference.
	And somebody said, you know, Robert De Niro seems to prefer, or no, like or marry black women.
	I think I'm not all, but some.
	Yes, he does.
	Yes.
	Some people, I know one friend of mine who all his wives have been Asian.
	And someone said, oh, that's a fetish.
	I said, no, no, no, no, no.
	That's not a fetish.
	That's just a preference.
	Somebody who likes blondes.
	And a fetish, by the way, is defined as a form of sexual desire in which gratification is strongly linked to a particular object or activity.
	Or a part of the body other than the sexual organs.
	So fetish is different.
	You know what I mean?
	There's something also called paraphilia.
	And paraphilia, and I like giving you the actual definition of it.
	Paraphilia, one of my favorite words, is a persistent and recurring sexual interest, urge, fantasy, or behavior, or marked intensity involving objects, activities, or even situations that are atypical in nature.
	And the activity outlines the evaluation and management of paraphilia and paraphilic disorders.
	Paraphilia covers everything.
	Okay, you got it?
	Preference, ideas, ideations, thoughts, you know, whatever.
	And one of the things that people have to understand, and you must grasp, is that we, as human beings, are not...
	How do I say this?
	We are not...
	Subject to heat cycles and estrus.
	We do not have any...
	What did I say?
	We do not go through mating cycles.
	You understand this word boner, which either means a joke, a gaffe, or a mistake, an erratum, or it means an erection, tumescence, whatever.
	Turgidity.
	There are some animals that actually have a perpetual state where they are in constant state of either, not arousal, that's a very interesting thing, because arousal involves a human being looking at something and processing it and saying, because of the situation, because of the person, because of the time, because of whatever it is that this is, I am situationally aroused.
	I'm not Aroused because there's a pheromone or it's winter or...
	No!
	We have a cortex.
	We learn things.
	We are situationally aroused.
	Sometimes that arousal may be regarding certain things that are either trauma-induced or just normal or if left to their own devices.
	The thing that is the most important...
	The thing which is so critical is that 99.99999% of gay people will tell you, I never had anything bad happen to me.
	I just always knew this was my preference.
	Granted, not everybody's gay.
	And that always confounds people because the idea, people think of being gay as a disorder.
	Some kind of a mental disease.
	And they confuse being gay with transgender.
	And the reason why is that we never look at sexuality intellectually.
	We don't study in school.
	We don't talk about it.
	We don't talk.
	We know nothing about it.
	The number of people walking around, they have no idea.
	They know everything about digestion and menses and migraine headaches.
	They know more about seed oils, but they don't know anything about that at all.
	And that's why it's very, very important for kids in particular.
	Do not mess with them.
	Do not mess with their sexuality.
	Understand that when you are growing and developing, you can be One little misstep will send you in the wrong direction if you know what I mean.
	And most people cannot possibly understand the gravity of this.
	When you meet most adults, they get very upset about this because they really don't know.
	They don't know.
	There's no classes on this.
	Nobody learns anything.
	There's no depth.
	Nobody, you don't...
	What you might learn at first is maybe from an older brother or your friends or the particular zeitgeist.
	Those of us in the 60s think differently than those born in the 90s.
	You may go online.
	But you've never had anything that is remotely a textbook academic subject or study of human sexuality.
	You've not.
	And people can't do it.
	They can't do it.
	Just like excreta and digestion and egesta and constipation and irritable bowel.
	They can't do it.
	Most people, you've got to understand something.
	Most people that you meet, they're not intellectually curious.
	They're not intellectually insatiable.
	They're kind of, sort of, sad.
	And they really don't.
	I'm sorry to say this.
	They're kind of sad.
	They really are.
	They just don't really know anything.
	But they love to laugh and love to joke and love to giggle because they're nervous about it.
	They're very, very nervous.
	And while during the course of this, during all of this Instagram stuff and people walking around and acting in a dress, there is a part of me that says, you know what?
	In some cases, I kind of admire somebody.
	If this is what you want to do, I don't care if it's a Biden administration, for you to come out and do that, it takes a lot of guts to do it.
	We might laugh at it.
	Then there are other people who are doing it just for costume purposes and theatrics, who don't mean any of it.
	But my friends, going back to the story, Jim Norton and his persona always pushes the boundaries, pushes the limits.
	And his I guess his latest venture is called Jim Norton Can't Save You Worse.
	I think it's the name of it.
	I think it's a podcast in 2025.
	They launched, I believe, it continues to showcase his style.
	Again, I'm not familiar.
	So please, if I'm wrong, let me know.
	His unapologetic, brutal style.
	So Nikki Norton, his wife, born in Norway.
	Norwegian Wood, you know what I mean?
	I'm sorry, I've heard that before.
	She entered Jim, his life, as a 19-year-old webcam model.
	I don't know what that means.
	I used to call him negligee, but I don't even know what that means.
	So the two met online after Nicky.
	Stumbled across an interview where Jim had discussed his interest in transgender women.
	So this is a recurring theme.
	This is what he has said.
	He's been very honest about that.
	And it's a recurring theme in his comedy.
	Okay.
	Whatever.
	Now you probably say, what do you think?
	I've seen dismembered bodies.
	Nobody's heard here?
	I can...
	If you know me...
	Nothing shocks me.
	I'm never like, what?
	I either get angry, especially if there's children and people who can't consent, but are you kidding?
	Are you kidding?
	We used to prosecute prostitution.
	I mean, no.
	I mean, I'm an adult.
	So it began as a casual exchange.
	I guess, a blossom into some kind of a long-distance relationship.
	You've heard it happen before.
	Complicated by, you know, COVID and the pandemic and apparently there might have been a minor, I'd read maybe a marijuana infraction perhaps, I could be wrong, on her record that might have delayed her entry to the U.S. or some bullshit like that, which is ridiculous.
	Minor.
	Minor.
	You've got people from TDA.
	And MS-13 are coming in.
	But this woman's got possession.
	All right, hold it.
	That's right, a couple of seeds that stems here and tomorrow, it's serial killing.
	So after a five-year immigration ordeal, apparently the story is a couple, quietly married, only revealing their union on Mr. Norton's serious show, Jim Norton and Sam Roberts.
	I don't even know if they're on anymore.
	I have no idea.
	I've never heard the Howard Stern show.
	I like, I've got serious excerpts.
	On the Yugo, it's a stretch.
	I like Willie's Roadhouse.
	The Jazz.
	I like the Met.
	I like some funky.
	I like listening to the BBC.
	I like some good stuff.
	But I've never heard anything.
	I've never.
	Do you know I've never heard the Opie and Anthony show?
	When it was in this context, I never heard.
	I never heard the Rush Limbaugh show.
	I never heard the Sean Hannity show.
	I mean, I've heard a snippet here.
	I've seen a, heard a, you know, like a YouTube platform here, but I've never sat and said, okay, let's listen to it.
	What have I heard religiously?
	Alex Jones.
	Best radio, best radio bar, none.
	I love today my, I don't want to go into what I listen to, but the point is I've never heard them, okay?
	Which is fine.
	Now, Nikki, who is now 27, identifies, listen carefully, as a male to female transgender woman.
	Okay.
	She has spoken, apparently, openly about her journey, including her initial consideration of gender-affirming or maybe gender-correcting surgery.
	I don't even know.
	Often referred to as bottom surgery.
	I know Sparky knows a little bit about bottom surgery.
	Maybe we'll get to that later.
	A kid, of course.
	A kid, and you don't know anything about that.
	He'll work it into the signal and the nixtamalization of masa as an inside joke.
	Okay, so bottom surgery.
	Then decided against it.
	And I believe at Mr. Norton's behest, the quote was, me now would never say that.
	She told...
	Trigonometry.
	This is in August.
	Trigonometry.
	Have you seen that where this one guy sits there and he has a British accent to make you think, well, they must know what they're talking about because they have a British accent.
	One guy didn't say anything.
	Put it this way, he makes Lex Friedman sound like destiny in comparison, okay?
	And you either get the joke or you don't.
	So anyway, so apparently Nikki expressed relief at living in an era where such choices are not forced upon her.
	In fact, if you listen, she's very, very rational when it comes to the, kind of like the, not the ordinariness, but the non-big deal of it.
	So Jim, by the way, Jim, meanwhile, made no secret of his preference for partners who retained their pre-transition anatomy.
	A detail, of course, which, of course, has fueled both fascination and controversy.
	Now, I am no expert here, but it seems to me pretty obvious what this is.
	And I think old Siggy Freud would agree with me.
	Jim, what this means to me is this.
	You have first...
	Harbored in the back of your mind a pension, a fixation, an ideation, I thought, regarding involving yourself in this particular genital accoutrement.
	You, being a loving partner, having to...
	You're not going to sit back and say, I'm not going to touch that.
	That's wrong.
	I love you, but you...
	In any event, either you would be Involved with or being serviced by, I hate this term, what many people would consider a man.
	I'm not even going to go there.
	That, in your own mind, was considered verboten.
	I can't do that.
	I'm not gay.
	This is what he thought.
	But a way you get around that is you can say, wait a minute.
	I can say, oh no, no, no, I'm not gay.
	This is a transgender woman.
	Oh, yeah.
	So you're not having sex with a man.
	And what you're doing, you're not pulling a Lewinsky on a man.
	You're pulling a Lewinsky on a woman, which might seem oxymoronic.
	This is your past.
	This is how you can say, okay, I got it.
	I can satisfy both worlds.
	Some people love a world of kink.
	Up to you.
	But he's doing it, obviously.
	Now, you could say, well, what about if, if you don't mind, here's Dave.
	Dave is an effeminate-looking man.
	No, no, no, no, no, no.
	No, no, no, no.
	Are you transgender?
	No.
	No, I don't want to.
	Excuse me.
	Jim, may I ask you?
	Nicky, if you don't mind, yeah.
	This is a man with a wig.
	Or long hair.
	With a size 12 shoe.
	I mean, you know, is that it?
	Just the name?
	Just the name?
	By the way, there were some women that could have all of the wigs in the world.
	I'm not going to make any Maxine Waters jokes, but you would say under no circumstances.
	So there's always this weird complexity, the strange calculus of attraction.
	But what I would love to say is, Jim, this name doesn't give you That's like if somebody said, I will not have sex with a person of a different race.
	Biracial?
	Halle Berry?
	I don't know.
	What are you talking about?
	She's black.
	No, she's not.
	She's biracial.
	I said I would never have sex with a black woman.
	Halle Berry is biracial.
	She's biracial.
	Or, or, or, or, somebody says, well, she's Latina.
	She's not black.
	You see how people do this?
	They say, what are you doing?
	What, are you checking off something?
	Are you applying?
	It's fascinating.
	It's fascinating.
	Now, of course, it's none of our business, but of course he's injected it, so to speak, in our world.
	So the fascination and the interest are...
	To me, incredible.
	So now there's the age gap, and that's probably a bigger thing than most people realize.
	That's one thing I will never understand.
	They'll say things like, hey, you know why, uh, hey, you know why, uh, so-and-so, uh, Jerry, the guy who went to high school, yeah, he married a 20-year-old.
	What?
	Oh, my God.
	Does he have to talk to her?
	No, don't you understand?
	She's 20 or 20, 20, I'll say 25 or 30. Does he have to talk to her?
	I can't understand that.
	But it's not for me.
	It's not for me.
	So, as you know, Jim is more than twice Nikki's age.
	A disparity, however, that has raised eyebrows.
	There's this 29-year-old, 29-year gap places their relationship in the, dare I say, in the crosshairs of a familiar...
	Hollywood tropism or a trope.
	The older celebrity and the younger partner.
	Got it?
	See how that works?
	I saw a very interesting YouTube with Alec Baldwin and Stephen Baldwin.
	Actually, he's very good.
	Alec Baldwin was almost likable.
	Their sister was there.
	It was really good.
	It was really good.
	You almost forgot he was a dick.
	Speaking of which, critics have now questioned whether Nicky A former Cam girl?
	Maybe she knows the Tates, you know, with no prior public profile.
	Is she maybe leveraging Jim's fame for her own game?
	Gee, that's never happened.
	Imagine that.
	So those on X, formerly known as Twitter, have speculated, as you can imagine, about her motives, whether she's sincere, she's just some gold digger, some attention, whatever.
	Some have said that she's 27, he's 56, smells like a green card and a paycheck.
	You know, this green card stuff is, I mean, gee, that's so rare.
	And Jim's saying, uh-huh, yeah.
	But if you ever watch their routine, they're very good.
	They just address all of your suspicions.
	Other folks, however, see genuine affection.
	I think there is.
	I see this guy not only I think he's in love with her, but I think I see him absolutely dominated by her.
	Not just intellectually, but physically.
	She's twice the size and I want to say something.
	So what?
	So what?
	If you think Jim Norton is some...
	Now granted, this is a bit different.
	I will say this to you.
	But human beings are crazy.
	And I don't see there's anything...
	If he feels...
	I know one guy who's married to a beast.
	If I say this to Mrs. Dell, she'll know exactly what I'm talking about.
	He's married to a beast.
	She looks like...
	What was her name?
	Ann Ramsey?
	Remember Throw Mama from the Train?
	She looks like Vivian Lee compared to this woman.
	And this husband, this poor guy, he is so beaten down, controlled.
	It works if they're married.
	So don't give me this idea that Jim Norton all of a sudden is some freak.
	By the way, watch this.
	I'm thinking about, we're not going to say her name, but a woman who...
	When I even hear her name, I get sick to my stomach, who looks like Ann Ramsey on a bad hair that she knows who is.
	And this emasculated husband who just sits back and says, oh my God.
	But you know what?
	There's millions of those.
	Nobody's doing a show on that.
	They're probably more weird than Jim Norton.
	And Jim, you know what people hate about Jim?
	He tells people.
	He's like, Jim, you're not supposed to be so open with this.
	Yes, I am.
	Okay, fine.
	So, if you look at the YouTube channel, you know, Nicky and Jim, where there are playful banter and domestic quirks and all this.
	Well, what's the difference between that and the Fitzgeralds on WOR?
	I mean, it's different.
	If you don't like it, don't watch it.
	To me, I only watched, I don't know, a minute?
	My preparation for this?
	It's okay.
	But some people say it's like assembling a fake Christmas tree.
	You know, you're seeing this dynamic that some people find relatable.
	So Jim brushed it off with a skepticism.
	He said, look, she makes me laugh, even when she's cranky.
	He told Forbes.
	He told Forbes.
	I mean, everybody's interviewed him.
	Everybody.
	Dr. Not Dr. Phil.
	Dr. Drew, Dr. V, everybody.
	He said, I definitely marry the right person.
	Okay.
	And Nikki echoes his sentiment, emphasizing that their chemistry, interesting phrase, but their chemistry over their differences is kind of interesting.
	She says, I don't think Jim expected this Norwegian to be this funny.
	Okay.
	She always uses the word Norwegian.
	Again, Norwegian would.
	There's a funny pun there.
	Work with it.
	I'm going to put you in the punitentiary.
	Very punny.
	Maybe there was a bond forged through humor.
	You know, whatever.
	Now, the thing is that assume what if they're really happy and in love?
	Oh, that can't be.
	Why?
	It just can't be.
	Let's assume it is.
	They're both over the age.
	They're not children.
	Could this be?
	Legitimate?
	And you know what?
	People have this weird idea that it bothers them.
	I'm thinking, yeah, it could be a legitimate.
	Sure it could.
	How many times do we have Jim and Nicky's?
	It doesn't happen.
	It's like, I married a Martian.
	Okay.
	Wasn't that...
	No, that's my favorite Martian.
	Ray Walsh.
	Remember that?
	Bill Bixby.
	Anyway, then there's surgery, identity, sexuality.
	No, Nicky's transgender identity.
	I love this.
	She's a man.
	I don't think she...
	I don't know if she's pre-puberty blockers or whatever.
	Anyway, she hasn't had surgery, so she has long hair and does not look, by the way, I'll just tell you this, but you don't look like, that's a dude.
	Do you ever see these very scary drag queens that scare the kids?
	That's a dude.
	That's a guy.
	That's a feller.
	That's a man.
	That's Bronco Nagurski.
	I don't think she, you look at her right now, I don't think you think that.
	I don't think so.
	Maybe that's good for Jim.
	But the identity has thrust a couple into broader cultural debates.
	When she decided to forego surgery, by the way, this surgery is so brutal, so horrible in nature that we're not talking about Just surgery, like a little nip and tuck, it is horrible.
	Incontinence.
	No, I'm no expert, but no.
	But the decision to forego the surgery, of course, sparked curiosity and some talks about a transition and Jim's attraction to her.
	You see, that's the most important part.
	And that's what I think it's really all about.
	That's what's fascinating.
	And, of course, the fact that we're talking about something which really doesn't affect us one way or the other is interesting, too.
	But I do love the questions.
	And I do love this sponsor.
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	We were talking about strange weddings and marriages.
	You know, the Lauren Sanchez, I did a piece on that, which is really, I mean, that is just nothing but just gaudy obscenity.
	Nobody really cares about that.
	And if anybody did not look, if anybody did not see, if anybody did not see the, dare I say, the transgender similarities, I don't know what does.
	Think about them.
	Transgender looking gal, bald-headed dude, one's a billionaire, one's not.
	Do the math.
	Now, the transition, the surgery, with Jim issuing his interest in transgender women, let's face it, this is not a commodity you've heard about too often.
	There's a part of me that says, you know, Good for you for your honesty.
	Other part of me says it's a work.
	It'll definitely get your attention.
	You've got to do something.
	It's not, you know, raw talent is going to do it.
	Maybe, who knows?
	I've no idea.
	I've never really followed this, so I don't know.
	But others, if you look through the idea of how Comedy tales have encountered with sex workers and all this stuff.
	People have led to the same question regarding his orientation.
	If he's with a trans woman, people will say, who still has a male anatomy, does that make him gay?
	And that's the thing which is the most important.
	Now think about this.
	Mathematically, you've got to ask the question, well, what does gay mean?
	What does that mean?
	What if I told you...
	The only person he has ever wanted to be with is that man or trans woman here.
	Does that make him gay?
	There's an old joke.
	I'm trying to clean it up.
	But it says, you know, I play golf my whole life.
	Nobody calls me a golfer.
	But blank one blank and they call you a blank.
	So that's the issue.
	And many people are asking the question.
	Echoing a sentiment, dare I say, that has trailed Jim since his ONA days.
	Is he gay?
	By the way, who cares?
	But assuming that there's something even relevant about this, what does that mean?
	Now, experts and advocates are stressing that attraction, and this is important, I think Dr. Drew and others might say this, but attraction is not a monolith.
	It's not...
	It's not set in stone.
	Sexual orientation isn't defined by a partner's gender identity or anatomy.
	This is what many people have suggested.
	These are gender studies professors.
	Now, when you hear gender studies professors and all that, you mean they are pro-gender transition.
	People have suggested that Jim's preferences reflect a specific attraction, not a label.
	Okay, fair enough.
	Jim himself has tackled the rumors head-on, and in 2015, I believe somebody somewhere noted that his comedy says should be mistaken for his reality.
	He says, I'm not gay, which is what he said.
	He clarified, urging fans to separate his stage persona from his personal life.
	Nikki's choice, according to him, her decision to halt her surgical transition adds another layer.
	I'm happy where I am.
	And this is according to this trigonometry.
	Get it?
	Trigger?
	Like, I'm triggered?
	This fascinates me.
	And also, another layer.
	People are not okay with other people being okay with who they are.
	It drives them crazy.
	See, whenever people challenge assumptions about what it means to be transgender or gay, some people go nuts.
	For Jim, apparently, her decision aligns with his preferences, which is fine, but it's also drawn tremendous scrutiny.
	And I'm telling you, it also inspires in people questions about themselves.
	They don't like this.
	Why are they able to deal with this?
	And I can't.
	Why are they able to talk about it?
	And I can't.
	This is not right.
	This is wrong.
	I'm a Republican or whatever it is.
	Is their relationship genuine?
	I don't know.
	Is it a curated narrative?
	Some performative relationship?
	I don't know.
	Is it designed merely to provoke?
	Do they say, listen, we're going to marry.
	Maybe they didn't marry.
	I guess they did.
	And we're going to go, and this is our thing, and we are the toast.
	We've been on, we are scheduled to be on every show from now until the 20, you know, 30 or something.
	Maybe it is.
	And the specter, of course, of publicity stunt, you know, looms large and has to.
	Jim's career thrives on shock, shocking people.
	You know, he's demented, he's perverted.
	Okay, fine.
	And some speculate that marrying a much younger...
	People are more interested in the age difference, but marrying a younger transgender woman, they think maybe this is somehow calculated, you know, to make him stay relevant.
	Okay.
	I mean, the idea is that they're saying, you know, he marries somebody, he marries...
	Well, here's the thing which is the most interesting.
	First, let's talk about our society.
	Why do you think people are interested?
	First of all, we're kind of voyeuristic.
	We've always been, since the days of Rock Hudson.
	What was that movie?
	Scotty...
	What's his name, Scotty?
	Scotty Bowers.
	Scotty Bowers.
	Have you read about Scotty Bowers?
	Oh, my!
	Scotty Bowers writes about this, the debauched and degenerate world of Hollywood.
	Everybody from, well, people knew the Rock Hudson.
	Rock Hudson?
	Nobody knew this.
	This shocked people.
	Oh my God!
	But he said, he worked at a gas station, he was a Marine, he was in Hollywood, he mentioned Walter Pidgeon and Spencer Tracy and it was wild.
	And in the roaring 20s, probably even wilder.
	Joan Crawford.
	This was crazy.
	Insane.
	And people were saying, what?
	So we live, of course, vicariously.
	We live sometimes.
	I've got to tell you, this, to me, I don't want to say is boring.
	What's interesting to me is your reaction.
	Not that.
	Not at all.
	We live in New York.
	And we've heard of, I can't verify this, open marriages?
	Okay.
	Open, I don't understand that, but I know what happens.
	Does that shock me?
	Nothing shocks me.
	I'll tell you what shocks me.
	Is the amount of horror that people can exact upon children, that's when I get very upset.
	Short of that, what adults do?
	Nothing.
	Absolutely nothing shocks me.
	But your reaction shocks me.
	How you, when I mean you, the collective you, find this thing so interesting.
	And how this idea is that you believe that in all cases, I think for the most part, people are very, very I mean, it's a lot of most people, I think myself included, say, no, no, we don't.
	We have definite ideas about the genders we're attracted to historically, and there is no question, there is no doubt.
	I'd say most people are like that, most.
	But that's boring for Oprah.
	There are other people who are different.
	How about every now and then you see somebody who falls in love with a robot?
	By the way, when AI and AGI kick in, I promise you, and listen to me very carefully, you're going to be seeing relationships between machines, bots.
	You're going to see stuff that is going to blow your mind.
	So the first question is, number one, is this psychologically, psychiatrically, A problem.
	Is it a mental illness?
	No.
	No.
	No, of course not.
	Psychiatric problems, are they able to work?
	Do they hear voices?
	Do they not bathe for six?
	No, no, no.
	They're fine.
	It's different.
	Okay.
	It's different.
	Number two.
	Why do you think some people are so interested in this?
	One of the reasons why I think people are so interested is because they have questions about their own particular lives.
	And this bothers them because either A, Jim and Nikki are so open that they're either jealous and they don't understand why there's no particular shame attendant to it, or other particular reasons as well.
	I don't know.
	It's very, very difficult to To put this into words.
	The idea of this transgender is so rare.
	I know.
	I know you swear.
	Everybody knew.
	It is rare.
	Real rare.
	And it is something that there is always going to be There's always going to be this, but not what you think.
	Let me also tell you something which is very interesting, which nobody will talk about.
	Do you know what, to this day, not shocks me, but I say, oh, that's interesting.
	Do you know when women will say things like, she is so beautiful.
	These are married women.
	They'll be talking about somebody else, an actress.
	She is so beautiful.
	Isn't she gorgeous?
	Oh, I got a girl crush.
	What does that mean?
	I don't know.
	There was a time here in New York where women, it seems like about a month, were walking down the streets hand in hand.
	Everywhere you went.
	Everywhere.
	People would walk hand in hand.
	Okay.
	And then it went away.
	Now I'm thinking to myself, when you say a girl crush, I would say 99% of the people say that because other people say it.
	I do not believe they have a crush.
	I do not believe they are...
	They're cryptically sexually attracted.
	I think they just say it.
	Like people say like.
	Like people say hilarious.
	Like people say whatever they do.
	Men don't do that.
	Men will say things like, Boy, that guy, he's a handsome guy, isn't he?
	Gavin Newsom, he's a handsome guy.
	You say that quite a bit.
	Yeah, boy, that's a good-looking guy there.
	Yeah, good-looking guy.
	All right.
	Okay.
	I was listening to this Alec Baldwin thing.
	He was talking to his brother Stephen, and he kept talking about actors.
	He goes, boy, he's a good-looking guy.
	Because Alec, in his life, has always been, you were this beautiful, good-looking, and now you're not.
	Or maybe, or you don't think you are.
	So his focus, his lens, is always in terms of looks.
	All the time.
	John Wayne wasn't considered good-looking.
	Maybe, I don't know.
	Who the hell knows?
	But let me also tell you something, which is very interesting.
	Women are very, this is my girlfriend.
	Hi, have you met my girlfriend?
	Your girlfriend?
	The one you got the girl crush on?
	The one you think is gorgeous?
	You know, you should, why don't you get a room?
	No, no, no, that's what we do.
	Okay.
	Now let me tell you this one, ladies and gentlemen.
	This is my favorite.
	This is, and I used to joke that it was homoerotic, but I'm not sure.
	Men who do this.
	Guys, hang around the firehouse.
	Marines.
	I'm in the barracks.
	I'm on the team.
	I'm in the locker room.
	I'm in the jujitsu.
	I'm on the mat.
	We're rolling around.
	I'm on the mat.
	One thing about boxing.
	Boxing, you open, you basically try to brain somebody.
	But with jujitsu, you got your leg between his head.
	I mean, you're like, what is this?
	I don't want to do that.
	Some sweaty guy is like, no, that's okay.
	You're on some smelly mat with this smelly guy.
	What are you doing?
	That's a manly thing.
	That's Muay Thai.
	Muay Thai, like basically kicking each other as hard as you can in the leg.
	Kick and liver shots.
	That's it.
	So I said, do you not think it's strange that these real tough guys, all they want to do is basically sit around and talk to men and be with men.
	And roll around with men.
	And they're practicing for something they're never going to get involved in.
	They're not professional fighters.
	They're not going to get into any kind.
	They're never going to...
	They think, what are you going to do at a Costco parking lot?
	Are you going to get somebody in their rear naked?
	What are you doing this for?
	It's, a lot of times, to hyper-sexualize, hyper-masculinize, look how tough I am.
	I'm going to go to the gym and I'm going to take my roids and my human growth hormone.
	Why?
	Because I'm a man.
	Here's Bobby Kennedy.
	Look at him.
	Hey, Bobby, you're in great shape.
	Yep, I'm here on the beach and I'm working out like my pecs.
	Huh?
	Want to see my pecs?
	No, no, no, no thanks, Bobby.
	No, no, I'll show you my lats.
	Let me show you my lats.
	Bobby, I don't want to see your lats.
	I want you to indict Fauci.
	No, I'm over here.
	Look at me.
	I'm over here.
	I saw Lex Friedman and Mark Zuckerberg on the mat slapping each other and saying, what is going on here?
	I know, Mark.
	You think Mark's trying to come out as a tough guy?
	I'm a tough guy.
	Okay.
	Alright.
	Alright.
	Okay.
	Alright.
	And sometimes I love it too.
	Alex, I love him to death.
	He's looking a lot better because he's losing weight, but Alex would be out there with a bottle of Jack Daniels and an M60 shooting a...
	An abandoned car.
	What is this?
	This hypermasculinized is a form of homoerotic.
	It's latent.
	It's not going to turn into something that is sexual, but it is as gay as gay can be.
	You are attracted to men.
	You are bonding with men.
	You're in a male thing.
	You want to talk with...
	You don't want women around.
	No, I want to be with us guys.
	I knew a guy who, whenever he had a friend, whenever he had a chance, he would go, always go playing golf with the boys, and he'd go fishing with the guys, and he'd go hunting with the guys.
	Do you ever want to stay home with your wife?
	Do you ever want to stay home with your wife?
	This is a form of homoerotic, it's a gay thing.
	It's not sex, but it's I love my...
	Do you ever want to stay home with your wife?
	Do you ever want to There are times there are people who they work in an office, maybe a man and a woman, they're kind of attracted to each other.
	Nothing ever happens.
	They're married.
	Both are married.
	But the relationship and the way they're talking to each other and the way they're digging each other and the way they're laughing at each other, it's not regular.
	It's sexual.
	But it's not objectified as sexual.
	Men and women treat each other differently.
	That's why men sometimes say, excuse me, ladies, I don't want to say, you treat each other differently.
	Why?
	Because of gender.
	It happens all the time.
	So what I'm trying to tell you is when you really look around, everything is about this.
	Everything.
	And the best right now, and for somebody as an armchair psychologist as I am, when I see people who just, and there's nothing, I think there's nothing, Sadder than somebody who is unhappy with who they are.
	Either their age or their looks.
	Weight's one thing.
	You know, you can get in shape, you can lose weight.
	But I see these poor people and I see these women.
	Oh my God, they sit there and they spend so much money.
	Look at me.
	Am I attractive?
	You're very attractive.
	No, no, seriously.
	I got a new filter.
	I got to throw this one at you.
	I will go.
	I'm trying to find somebody who understands exactly what I'm saying.
	When you do a graphic of yourself and somebody, like you go to Chad GPT, you put a picture and you say, make me a thumbnail or something.
	And they will take you and you go, oh, that's a graphic.
	You know it is.
	You can look at it and say, yeah, that's not the way.
	It kind of looks like that, but it's graphic.
	Okay?
	There's a...
	People I know who say, I'm going to put a filter on.
	I'm going to lose 50 pounds in a filter.
	I'm also going to, the arm pose.
	And I say, wait a minute.
	You don't look like that.
	No, no, it's a filter.
	No, no, wait.
	And what is it?
	It's the same thing Jim Norton is doing.
	No, no, no, I'm not gay.
	She's transgender.
	What?
	Maxine, you can't put a filter on.
	You lost 75 pounds.
	You don't look like this.
	No, it's a filter.
	No, you're telling people that that's what you look like.
	You're lying.
	No, I'm not.
	Yes, you are!
	What difference does it make?
	It's my picture, it's my...
	Yeah, but it's delusional.
	What are you doing?
	It's like people who run for office and they use the same picture for 75 years.
	There was a guy in Tampa years ago.
	I loved him.
	Armando Valdez.
	He was like 90 years old.
	He used a picture.
	He's like his high school picture.
	But that became his trademark.
	You see how interesting this is?
	And I love this.
	Have you ever seen anything where somebody says this?
	Ladies, you don't have to apologize for your age.
	What does that mean?
	I hate my age.
	That's why I'm doing this.
	I hate this.
	I hate me.
	So I'm trying to tell you...
	That you don't have to be what I am, but I'm couching it in a way that sounds like I don't think this.
	Men, you don't have to worry about being stupid anymore.
	What?
	No, there's nothing wrong with being stupid.
	Oh, I'm not stupid, but if I were...
	You see how it is?
	We hide through stuff.
	Believe it or not, the thing that people hate the most about Jim Norton, and I'm going to leave it at this.
	Is that the honest of God doesn't care what you think?
	And he says, yeah, it's different.
	Yeah, you're right.
	It's weird.
	I know.
	That's it.
	And there's something wrong.
	Why do you think Candace Owens is so bent out of shape about Brigitte Macron?
	Why?
	Why?
	Did you ever think about that?
	Why?
	What is her problem?
	Oh, there's that thumb.
	There's that thumb.
	What do you think that's about?
	Why do you think she has such a, this thing about, she can't do that.
	She's a man.
	What's your problem?
	No, you don't understand this.
	I hate inauthentic people.
	I hate posers.
	I hate phonies.
	I hate people who say there's something that they're not like me.
	See?
	Ladies, you don't have to worry about getting old like I worry about getting old.
	And then this Jim Norton comes along and goes, no, no, he doesn't care about anything.
	People hate that.
	It's the most incredible thing in the world.
	Always look behind what somebody's doing.
	I know somebody who people say, she's the biggest egomaniac.
	No, she's not.
	She has an inferiority complex a mile wide.
	She's...
	She's hiding.
	She's projecting sublimation.
	She's hiding.
	She has absolutely no.
	Well, you know, I drive my car.
	She's so pathetic.
	There's something about, and this is why you're going to laugh if I tell you that.
	To me, the ultimate perfection of humankind is A grandmother who basically says, let's go to the store.
	I'm going to wear a muumuu.
	And I don't give a damn.
	You know how the old ladies, you get these curly hair, the short hair, and the big glasses.
	And they say, I don't give a damn.
	I'm me.
	And they're the best people.
	There are grandmas and aunts.
	They've been through this crap.
	And they're just so...
	Honest and real.
	They don't care about this.
	That's the thing about Jim Norton.
	He doesn't care.
	Just keep talking about him.
	Just keep talking about him.
	He loves it.
	That's what that's about.
	And also, this is about you.
	It's a Rorschach on you.
	Okay?
	Great.
	My friends, today was an absolute plethora.
	Oh my God.
	So many super chats today.
	So many.
	I don't know if I can read them all.
	Raul Rodriguez and Pilgrim Media.
	Thank you.
	There we go.
	Boy, that was a barn burner.
	Make sure you see Mrs. L's YouTube channel.
	She did one yesterday, Alive at 5. And we got one of the best Can I mention the sign?
	Yeah, our sign!
	We got a Linz Warrior sign when she goes to various appearances.
	She's got stuff booked constantly with law enforcement and we have this sign that we got from this company that is so terrific.
	It's almost like a step and repeat but it is just...
	You know how you buy something and you think...
	And by the way, your support always goes to, you got to put these, the bags and the goodie bags, you don't even know half of it.
	Traveling, going to Washington, going to Albany, doing all that, it's a lot.
	Anyway, anyway.
	So we got this thing.
	And it's this sign, you kind of pull it up, and you, it's like a poster, whenever you're speaking, it's like your, has your social media stuff.
	It's better than anything I ever, I thought, oh, okay, we'll see it.
	So I, you know, we uploaded the graphics, and okay, we'll do it, because nobody gets stuff today and is half-assed.
	Oh, no, no, no, no.
	It is, I don't want to mention their company, but it's the best.
	I mean, I'm so incredibly impressed with how this turned out.
	So in any event, we do that.
	Please follow Mrs. L at Lens Warriors.
	This evening, I've got a show.
	We do something a little bit different.
	I'm going to be special guesting with my good guest.
	Like a guest.
	By Anthony Cumia's WABC program.
	So that's in the evening.
	So I might do a live earlier.
	So make sure you are subscribed to Lionel Nation right here.
	Because this way, if ever I pop up and do one, you'll be able to see it.
	Okay?
	Okay.
	My friends, have a great and glorious day.
	Don't ever change and mean that sincerely.
	Please hit the like button.
	Look at this.
	Somebody writes, Lionel is behind the times.
	Who is RuPaul?
	No, Yoli.
	No.
	No, that's no.
	No, no.
	Who is Renee Richardson?
	Remember that?
	Renee Richards.
	Was it Richards or Richardson?
	Richards.
	Remember Renee Richards, Yoli?
	Remember her?
	How about Christina Jorgensen?
	Remember her?
	Don't think so.
	You know the, I can't say this, the couple of names in Hollywood that were born, shall we say, male?
	But in the 50s, they were doing clitoridectomies.
	Remember that one?
	Do you know about that, Yoli?
	No.
	Okay.
	So that's okay.
	So in any event, it doesn't matter.
	So my friends, have a great and a glorious day.
	See you later.
	Don't ever change me that sincerely.
	And until then, remember these final words.
	The monkey's dead.
	The show's over.
	Sue ya.

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